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NF19 Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 4:35 PM
Talking to JW's
I found it won't work to talk with JW's using the Bible. They learned a bunch of verses and they won't deviate. Didn't they used to have a book "Make Sure" or something? Imagine having all questions neatly grouped by chapters. There was no room for questions smart people asked. The book was meant to cover all questions most people ask. But Maluenda said she asked stuff most don't ask them. That's why they got mad. She didn't follow what they were used to. The JW woman had to think without WT assistance. She can't do that too well. Maluenda made her look dumb so she got mad. That's pride, and the Bible says not to be proud. To talk to JW's, you must pin them down on a point that they've been wrong on. Ask 'em if the Mormons said something and it didn't come true, what would that make the Mormons? Then say "same thing to you". Sauce for the goose, right? The JW will then call you names or think you are Satan or a apostate. But maybe someday they will think on what you said or the other Jw with them will think. YOu never know.

Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 4:33 PM
Oops
Sorry about the repeats of my posts. Today, for the first time ever I gave blood. I was assured that the blood people donate is very carefully checked out for anything that could pose a threat to the people getting the blood. So, I don't have to worry about there maybe being something wrong with my blood and it might make someone sick. They're really cautious about this! I probably won't tell the JW members of my family what I did. No need to, unless if comes up for some reason. I feel good about having done it, and the nurses really appreciate all the people who have been showing up to donate blood today. They have been busy! Nonstop.

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 4:22 PM
Re: Satan
Many people do not believe in Satan, whether he is supposed to be a real creature or just the "concept of evil in men's hearts". I don't believe in God or Satan. Or angels either, for that matter. I take science very seriously and I require absolute proof. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. I understand thoroughly the idea that God and Satan are supposed to be unable to be proven using our five senses, since none of these can experience spiritual beings. But I need a more concrete proof in my life than the fact that life exists or there is beauty in the world. There is also much agony. Many would say that this proves exactly that God and Satan exist and that one is responsible for the good and the other for the evil. But a "good friend of mine" pointed out that life is what you make it. Two people can be presented with the exact same circumstances in life. One will thank God for the good they see and the other will blame Satan for the evil. If a mother and child got in a car accident and the mother died, the one who loves God would thank him for sparing the child. The other would blame Satan for the mother's death. I would be forced to question how any God would allow the accident in the first place. I know many don't view things my way, but we are all different. If your faith in certain beings, or lack of it, makes your life work, I see no problem. I'd only worry about you if I saw you walking down the street talking to "Satan" out loud. I knew little about Wiccans and this good friend enlightened me. I'll let others explain the Wiccan beliefs, I'm not an expert.

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 4:01 PM
Re: Maluenda's post
First of all, what does "peeps" mean? Miracles don't happen anymore? Can they prove they did in the past? Do they have anything on video? Then I'm not convinced. (I mean no disrespect to those who still believe, but I'm a die-hard agnostic and will never change.) I thought Satan was the "God of this system of things"? Geez, even JW's don't know the top 100 scriptures they use anymore? What kind of publishers are they turning out these days? I think JW's get angry when you disagree because of many reasons. One is that sometimes the householder (You, Maluenda) is smart enough to ask a question that they haven't practiced in the Service Meeting. Or again, like you, they give you the standard answer that is supposed to cause the heavens to open up and holy WT light will shine into your left ear into your brain and you will just "get it". Well, that works if your head is empty, since there would be plenty of room for all of their teachings. But since most people here and in the world have their intelligent heads already filled with non-JW beliefs, there isn't much room for WT fiction. That's why the JW's get so mad. Another reason, and they won't admit it, is that many JW's down deep don't really understand and/or believe much of the garbage they are taught at the Hall and in the mags. I mean, think about it. How many times has the WT changed their view on whether the people from Sodom will be resurrected? They did a flip- flop twice in ONE YEAR! I mean, how can anyone take them seriously? And should a woman scream if threatened with rape? That has changed a dozen times in 50 years. You made a good point about going to the horse's mouth for the truth. I play and teach piano. If you had a question about piano music or wanted lessons, would you ask me or would you ask the WT if a non-musician wrote an article about piano so you could read it? JW's are just so brainwashed to go to "Mother" for everything that they truly don't know how to think anymore. My STBX (soon to be ex-wife) told me that she could discuss divorce details with me. But she had to check with the elders to find out HOW MANY MINUTES PER MONTH SHE WAS ALLOWED ANY CONTACT WITH ME!! Can you imagine the stupidity?? How many minutes?? What's next? "Brother Idiot, my apostate husband sent me $5,000 for child support. Do I have to put on nurse's latex gloves to handle the check or can I touch it and cash it myself? I better go, I'll start laughing and crack a rib. Oh, BTW, how many animals did you sacrifice this week? Does putting a few burgers or hot dogs on the BBQ count as a "burnt sacrifice"? Did you drink any "bloody Mary's" lately? I'd check the mags they leave with you for hidden microphones. They are that paranoid. Really sad. Well, let us know if the mags have anything good in them. Good luck.

NF19 Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 2:05 PM
Re: Illogic
Well, does that work both ways? If I run over 2 JW's with my car on purpose, can I pray to God to get forgiveness? Never mind, why ruin a good bumper.

Maluenda Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 1:53 PM
RE:ILLOGIC
They already do say that you can commit a sin and be forgiven. My father is an elder and goes out in service with the man who molested me on a regular basis. When I asked him how he could do this he said, "He prayed to Jehovah for forgiveness and Jehovah forgave him so why shouldn't I." So you see they do follow this philosophy. Scarry isn't it.

Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 1:44 PM
The illogic of it all
If the WTBTS is teaching its devout 'flock' that lying is and untruth, but an untruth is not necessarily a lie, and besides, if they lie they can always pray to God afterward for forgiveness. Huh?! But, but, but - - if it's a deliberate lie, then that just doesn't make sense! Also, they could turn around and say to go ahead a commit adultery, steal, abuse children. I mean, why not? They can always pray to God afterward for forgiveness. The reasoning is all just so crazy! How can people in the 'rank and file' not see that?! How can they go along with the idiocy? It makes me want to shake them, put smelling salts under their noses and say, "Wake up, wake up, wake up!". Aaaugh!

Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 1:36 PM
To kt
Hello, kt, please keep coming to Silentlambs. You are loved and cared about here, no question! Speaking for myself, sometimes a few days go by without my going near a computer. When I get back to it, though, one of the first things I do is get on Silentlambs! You are really appreciated here, so please hang in there if things get a little slow here sometimes. Don't let it get you down. Believe me, you are so cared about here! And it's so true that Jehovah's Witnesses are very difficult to talk to! Having a discussion with them about the Bible is very frustrating and exasperating! My sister told me recently that she thinks that I am in denial that the JWs have the truth. Uh, oh, here we go. In actuality, I very much believe that SHE is probably the one in denial! But, a conversation with a JW can be like going round and round on a 'Merry Go Round'! A person can get dizzy trying to talk with a JW! So, don't feel bad if you feel as if you are getting nowhere with any Jehovah's Witnesses, and, as one or two others here pointed out to you, even if you can get just ONE JW to listen to you and give serious thought to what you are saying, well, then that is a BIG step. It's not easy, but hang in there, kt! It is very admirable the way you are trying to help people, and your compassion is a beautiful thing!

Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 1:34 PM
To kt
Hello, kt, please keep coming to Silentlambs. You are loved and cared about here, no question! Speaking for myself, sometimes a few days go by without my going near a computer. When I get back to it, though, one of the first things I do is get on Silentlambs! You are really appreciated here, so please hang in there if things get a little slow here sometimes. Don't let it get you down. Believe me, you are so cared about here! And it's so true that Jehovah's Witnesses are very difficult to talk to! Having a discussion with them about the Bible is very frustrating and exasperating! My sister told me recently that she thinks that I am in denial that the JWs have the truth. Uh, oh, here we go. In actuality, I very much believe that SHE is probably the one in denial! But, a conversation with a JW can be like going round and round on a 'Merry Go Round'! A person can get dizzy trying to talk with a JW! So, don't feel bad if you feel as if you are getting nowhere with any Jehovah's Witnesses, and, as one or two others here pointed out to you, even if you can get just ONE JW to listen to you and give serious thought to what you are saying, well, then that is a BIG step. It's not easy, but hang in there, kt! It is very admirable the way you are trying to help people, and your compassion is a beautiful thing!

Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 1:18 PM
Hi, Maluenda
I was surprised that you accepted the magazines! Do you read them to keep up with what the WTBTS is up to? Well, anyway, when they go back to see you, I know you'll have some other things up your sleeve with which to confound them. You hit a nerve it sounds like. Keep us posted! :-) By the way, I am a little confused about what you said about the devil. You don't believe in him, you said. To me Satan is very real, the epitome of evil and wickedness, and people should be very careful not to get involved with spritism and certain aspects of this world we live in. Could you please tell us a little about the Wiccans? What does Wiccan mean?

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 8:16 AM
To: JamieJ
You made a very good point. Lying is lying, period. Bringing up children is not easy. What must go through the mind of a child when they learn at home or school that lying is wrong, then the WT teaches them that it's okay? Does anyone see a similarity here with the Nazis? Or any other propaganda-based country or organization? This IS definitely child abuse. It may not be sexual, but it is abuse: emotional, psychological, and moral. I think we should all be thankful that the JW's don't vote. Can you imagine the damage they could do by passing laws okaying their conduct? When I was a servant, I used to defend the WT by using the analogy that if everyone on earth were a JW, the world would be a far better place to live. I now realize that if everyone were a JW, I'd kill myself, if I didn't kill them first. There might not be any "crime", but who would want to live on a planet with billions of JW's? I'd go live on the moon. LOL. To MT: I hope you are doing better. It takes time. One person at a time. On another popular site, there is a post of an ex-JW who actually spoke to an elder alone (he had doubts) and the elder agreed with him that the WT was full of lies. Maybe he'll quit. You plant seeds and you never know where or how they'll grow. My best to all.

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 8:00 AM
Re: Lies and untruths
I find it amazing that any JW can indulge in such stupidity and double-talk. It's like my introducing a friend to you and saying, "This man's name is John, but John is not his name." HUH???? What kind of logic is that?? WT LOGIC!!! If you tried to explain "theocratic warfare" to ANY person in the world, a news reporter, a judge, a professor, whoever, they would look at you like you needed to be locked up. Yet the WT stands on the top of the mountain and says "We are the truth and if you don't agree, you'll die. Ha ha. And we'll take your land when you're dead." Some day I'd like to see someone knock them off their pedestal. The laws here in Florida are brutally strict compared to other states. I truly believe that even raising children in this religion constitutes "emotional and psychological child abuse". But if anyone sued the WT, they'd take it to the Supreme Court. The only way to beat these monsters is to hit them where it hurts. DON'T give them money, don't talk to them at the door, tell all your friends about SL and whatever else you know. Email the SL newsletters to your friends. Look up local media people and email THEM. The media NEED stories to stay in business. Let's all give them all the ammo they need. We can't use real "ammo" like the WT wanted to use on "apostates" (according to a WT article in the 1950's where they lamented not being allowed to kill everyone who wasn't a JW) but we can use whatever ammo we have. There are 1,000 people to everyone 1 JW in the world. How much power can they have? All of us together have more time, more money, and can fatally hurt them. SL has many suggestions on how to further this cause. Let's use them and someday the WT will be history. My best to all.

Maluenda Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 7:57 AM
To Geanaz
So glad your still visiting. I hope you stay around this time. So many people come here to hear the words you just wrote. They are unsure if they can make it in the world- survive. When people like you tell their stories it gives them hope. Thanks and hope to hear more from you! Blessings

JamieJ Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 6:28 AM
lies & untruths
We havn't read an actual Watchtower in a long time, but I came across that article online just the other day that talked about lies being untruths but untruths not being lies. Imagine the confusion this give to children in the WTBS. It is major parental obligation to teach our children right from wrong and lying and here's their religious leaders telling them that lying is ok, if for the good of the WTBS. Doesn't that go against the fundamentals of child rearing. All I could do is laugh, but in actuallity it is very scary.

JamieJ Wednesday, May 30, 2007
@ 6:20 AM
to mt
Hang in there mt! I know your feeling of wanting to do more is probably overwhelming. But remember, if even only one person is able to see the 'real light' from you that is enough. I'm sure there are some out there that you have reached but may not have the ability to come forward like you. Even if all you do is expose, that is enough. I feel that the WTBS puts into our minds that we can never do enough and then even when we get out of the WTBS we still have that mentality. They put into us that no matter how much we do, there is always more we can do, that we can never live up to God's standards (or rather, their standards), but that is so untrue.

geanaz Tuesday, May 29, 2007
@ 11:26 PM
When you leave
I remember as if it were today how I always thought that if you "leave the truth" and enter into the "world" you'd experience depression and would not survive. Well, I found entering into the "world" about 12 years ago extremely refreshing. So much so that I wondered how I could've been brainwashed for so long. Wow! There are other intelligent people in the world who have very intersting thoughs that have not been drilled into them. I didn't drop off the face of the earth, instead I made new friends in different cultures and religions with ideas that were different from what I had ever heard. Those people I met and am still friends with to this day were good people, not mass-murderers/child molesters, with an open mind and accepted me for me. My religion did not matter - I am an individual outside of my religion. What a tremendous weight lifted off of me! I could actually voice my opinions/passions/fears without fear of a group of people shunning me or making me fit into a very small cramped square. I learned about other religions and how very similar they are to JW's as they all strongly believe they are the chosen people. I chose to leave the organization b/c of the extreme abuse/neglect I incurred as a child by my step-father for 13 years and the fact that a religion could actually convince my mother to stay with this monster b/c God instructed that divorce is not an option and more importantly to let the real "me" out. I'm not a demon - I'm now a very successful, loving mother of two handsome, respectful boys who believe God is good and loving and created all living things to be the best they can be and if anyone ever put their hands on my two boys like my stepfather, I am thankful I have the brains to think outside the JW box and do what was necessary to keep them safe. I have not posted for a few years, but felt the need to express myself this evening. Thank you for listening, Geana Smalls

SJG Tuesday, May 29, 2007
@ 8:15 PM

Greetings and love to all! mt you don't have to apologize. I really feel that it's useless to argue with a JW. It was God's Holy Spirit that opened my eyes. If a person really wants to worship God God's way, then God will get them there. The devil has put a huge block in the way of God's Spirit for the JW's. It's sad. I've always believed that God's judgement is righteous and no one will receive His adverse judgement unjustly. Just examining their beliefs about Jesus' return and what they say on that CD is the trickery of the devil. To say that Jesus won't be returning on a cloud because when a plane is in a cloud you can't see it, so Jesus' return will be invisible is just not right. This is how I know there's a block from the devil on them. It was on me too. For years I didn't get Matthew 24 until God removed the block. It's so clear. If we are going to say that we are christians who teach christianity then the basis for our faith is the bible, Jesus. What reason does one have for teaching the opposite of what Jesus said and declaring Jesus' words untrue? Searching through their CD causes one to see the unGodly reasoning of the governing body of the JW and the trickery of the devil. Peace to all! God Bless!

Tuesday, May 29, 2007
@ 3:51 PM
Lies and untruths not the same??? Duh.
If the WTBTS is teaching its poor simple flock (when I say simple I am not referring to intelligence and education, just sheer gullibility when it comes to the JW 'religion') that a lie is always an untruth, but an untruth is not necessarily a lie, then they might as well say that blue is not blue, pink is not pink, yellow is not yellow whenever it suits their fancy. Because an untruth and a lie are one and the same and to mislead the 'rank and file' with this so-called line of "reasoning" is stupid and mean. The WTBTS is in essence telling its 'flock' to just go ahead and lie as long as it backs up the WTBTS's teachings, true or not. This is one way cults are made, by twisting people's minds around in all directions, playing with people's thinking. It's disgusting and inexcusable! Of course, an untruth is a lie! There is no getting around it!

mt Tuesday, May 29, 2007
@ 2:02 AM
Hi everybody
Thank you so much for your kind and loving answers. I know you are right, but I suddenly just felt so alone. Also in the work I am doing. I also know, that there are sercumstances in peoples life, there can be the reason, while they do not respond. So yes I have to be more patience. I just had a bad day, it all just got to me. I know JW wants me to come back. But never ever I do that. I would hate every minute there. And Charlie you are so right, that it is frustrating, arguing with JW. The most frustrating part is, that the one there is at the net writing right now, does not write back. Not to me anyway. I think it's so unpolite, and I can only feel sorry for him, because I know that somewhere it hurts his heart. When I was a JW, I passed a df. at the street. Oh I was so ashamed I remember. I loved her, and it hurted a lot. So somehow, it must get to them, when they ignore us. But when I write in DK, I also do it, because maby just maby a JW is reading what I write, and want's to get out. Maby I can reach a JW who need help. Not those who are writing, they are cold as ice. But those who are seeking for help. So its difficult for me to stop. I am now tumbling with som questions about how to reach the x-witnesses here in DK. I feel a litle bit isolated. I am standing between disapointing my mother who is a good and loving woman, or help those ex-witnesses who got to be out there somewhere. I want so much to do a lot more, than I do now, just sitting here writing. That is also important, but I need to do more. And it is also trubling me. No now I must stop this complaning. Thank you so much, that you have patience with me. I will turn my eyes away from my self now, and start to look outside the world and find some ways to go on.I am reaching there again, where I was for about 3 weeks ago. I wil continue my fight. Love from me to your all, God bless you.

charlie j Monday, May 28, 2007
@ 3:56 PM
to mt
MT, J is correct. You see the active JWs think that we are terrible hateful people who have been influenced by Satan. They think that we are miserable and want them to be too. They believe that most people who leave, do it trying to spread their wings and try forbidden fruit, then find that it is not so great out “in the world” so they eventually return. I have a cousin who left about 15 years ago, and all those years I thought that she had become a terrible and hateful person. And the reason that my family and I would not have anything to do with her is because we thought that she would eventually miss us and go back to it. The organization gives all its members an inherent feeling that all eyes are on them. That they are to please everyone at all time. So they actually think that a person who left cares so much about what the witnesses think about them that eventually we will miss the witnesses bad enough to go back. That is why they say they we are selfish because we are able to break through that feeling of being overly concerned with what everybody thinks about us. My point is that during my process of leaving I missed my cousin and I called her then went to see her. And to my surprise she had her own happy life that was not at all impacted by our shunning her. And more to my surprise she was actually a better person then when I knew her as a witness. She, and others like Bill, helped me to see that I really could be happy and become a better person. When we argue with them they feel like they are accomplishing something, and they see us all the more as hateful, miserable people. The best thing that we can all do is to do our best to be good caring people. So that they will see that happiness is possible outside. As far as our support for you on this site. Try to be patient with us, sometimes it takes some time to read new posts and have our responses posted. But always know that we care about you and will always be here for you, just slow sometimes. To MAN thanks for your comments. Thanks to everyone who has welcomed me to the guest book.

J Monday, May 28, 2007
@ 7:44 AM
To MT
Please note that this past weekend was a long holiday weekend in the U.S., so you that is probably the reason you were not welcomed back by the regulars. I usually check this site every day but failed to do so since Friday, because I have been so busy. My brother, who is in the process of leaving the cult, came from out of state for a holiday party, and it was great seeing him again! May I suggest to you to not argue with active JW's? It will do no good, because they are BRAINWASHED, and it will only frustrate you. The best thing to do for yourself and for friends of yours who are still JW's is to live a good life, take care of yourself, and quietly show them that God won't strike you with lightening and the world isn't as evil as the WTBS would have you believe upon leaving the cult. The evil empire can deny that they're a cult all they want to, but the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I used to go crazy every time I read on this site about another child being molested by a JW, but now, although I feel saddness, I also feel more convinced than ever that being disfellowhipped was the best thing that ever happened to me. Take care of yourself, be there for the victims and know that coming out of "Jehovah's organization" is the best thing that could've happened to you.

M.A.N. Monday, May 28, 2007
@ 7:36 AM
Hi to all
First, I wanted to say hi to mt and I'm sorry you felt sad. So many new people are posting here that I can't believe it. Of course, I'm glad about it. Many come and go. Hi to Cheri Romero too, I'm glad you got the stuff. I think I lost your email, so email me so I get it again or send it to SL and they can get it to me. To Earl: You are correct, a lie is a lie. Liars die at God's judgment day. The WT lies. Therefore, they will die. Period. There are psychological reasons for why people belong to cults and the GB members are not immune to being human and imperfect. If they are imperfect as they often use as an excuse for their failed prophecies and advice, then no one should follow them. I was on another anti-JW site and they were discussing the latest conventions. There was a talk that "If Jehovah and Jesus trust the FDS, then we should." What the WT fails to realize is that God and Jesus DO NOT trust the FDS. Who would trust an organization that misrepresents you and slaughters your believers? (Shunning, rape, and suicides.) The WT keeps making God out to be a bumbling idiot always in need of Bethel's assistance in order to get things done. When you take an oath in court, you must swear to tell "the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". Leaving out ANYTHING violates this oath. So the WT are chronic liars and they will die for this sin. Hey WT, why don't you go play in traffic? The BQE runs right by your buildings. I've driven it hundreds of times. Just do us all a favor and walk across it a few times while keeping your eyes closed. Thanks. The world will be a better place. To Charlie J: You are right. There is a verse: "And my people have loved it that way." It's about power. It's the ego of men who have no education and realize that they are losers, so they get power from carrying leather briefcases all week to meetings so they can "play executive". This offsets the broom or mop they carry all day at work. If the GB had to work in the real world as we do, I bet college educations would have been fine all these years. Since they live off of the publishers, then they continue to be obnoxious. If there is a God, he is watching and will take care of them. My best to all. And have a good Memorial Day.

Maluenda Sunday, May 27, 2007
@ 10:21 PM
To NF19
I would love to see that. What would they do if a man and a woman cross dressed as a couple? I think we could do a whole lot of hidden camera scenerios for utube. We could go around to KH's and present different situations and secretly film how they react. It would be a hoot! We already know that when you place service bulletins on their doors they get irrate even with the cameras rolling. Can you imagine what they would do if they thought there were no cameras present?

Maluenda Sunday, May 27, 2007
@ 10:17 PM
To Cheri Romero
MAN has been asking about you forever! He would love to hear from you. He's been a little down lately! I'm so happy that you are back. As you see, we have been very busy making new friends! I hope you hang out with us! What have you been up too?

Maluenda Sunday, May 27, 2007
@ 10:14 PM
To MT
My dear, dear friend- don't be discouraged. You are doing a noble work from your heart and from the love that it holds. These people who do not greet you, these people who have cold hearts do not know what they do. Think of it this way. There are many horrible people in this world. Hitler, Houssein, Stalin, and I could go on and on! But one thing these people all have in common and they include the governing body, elders, and all the rank and file- there heart is frozen solid. It takes a lot of warmth from true love to defrost those hearts. You, my friend, have that type of love. Keep going, keep distributing your love and warmth. It'll take a while but you'll see there hearts aglow with warmth again. I have no doubt. I also know that you are loved very much here and will accomplish your goal. A great big hug to you my friend! Blessings!

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