silentlambs Friday, March 12, 2004
@ 12:01 PM
summit update website problems
Back up and running We want you to know that things are ok on the website. The ISP went through a software upgrade that would help security on the website. The down side was we had some custom programming that was in conflict and causes the newsletter and the guestbook to become inoperable. Adjustments have been made and it appears that we are up and running again. The guestbook information from July through March of this year was corrupted and lost. We are checking backups of the website to try and restore this data it will take a few days and we will have to see. I hope it will be able to be archived. The newsletter is still dead but should be fixed soon and so I am posting this update here until we can put it up there. Now I must mention that things are coming together for the Summit. When silentlambs was founded three years ago the purpose of the organization was to help abuse survivors to have a voice. The leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses went to great length to say not only there wasn't a problem but that their policy on abuse was far superior to any other religion. After fifteen documentaries in eight different countries as well as hundreds of news and magazine articles it appears the real "truth" of these matters is there for anyone to see that may wish to do so. Thousands have been helped to see they are not alone; they were not at fault and have the right to stand up to those that hurt them. They are no longer silent lambs. Each event that silentlambs has planned has had that as its central purpose, that is, to allow abuse survivors to have a voice and show them they are believed and supported. The "silentlambs summit" will be yet another opportunity for those that wish to offer support and give a voice to those that cannot speak for themselves, if you see any event as important view this one as something significant for you to be apart of. You will not regret the time effort and expense put forth by supporting this conference. This is your chance to "walk the walk" so to speak and help be a voice to make a difference in the interests of protecting children. Now what are we doing to get you there? I have just been informed that Swedish Television will be there to do interviews for an update that will appear nationwide later this year. The National News Writer for the Associated Press will be there to cover the conference. Sue Archibald of Linkup (the oldest organization dealing with clergy abuse with thousands of members nationwide) will be there to speak and talk on abuse awareness issues. Barbara Blaine of SNAP as well as members from the local area will be there to speak on abuse awareness also. Silentlambs delegates are coming from Sweden, England, Africa, and Canada. Local television has asked to be there to do stories for the local news programs as well as the newspaper will be covering the conference. We are spending a tremendous amount of time effort and money to give you the platform to have a voice. Will you be there will you be there to support abuse survivors? We invite anyone that wishes to do so to be part of this conference. Jehovah's Witnesses will be there, X- Jehovah's Witnesses and many advocates that all have one simple goal, we want to protect children. If you feel that is important, be there and support the silentlambs summit. silentlambs

MIFFED OFF Tuesday, March 16, 2004
@ 6:21 AM
V MIFFED OFF
I agree with the last post it was my step father who abused me and his father was an elder whose only comment has been its a shame we all didn't sit round a table. i have had no visits and when it came out the circut overseer was there and he couldn't be bothered to come and see me. i have and will never set foot in the hall again

KL Tuesday, March 16, 2004
@ 12:13 PM
Like I said...
I refuse to worry about that issue. I do appreciate your concerns about my "confusion" however, but it is not my intent to debate this issue. This website was not intended for that. I know that some will say "Yes it is, because if all the remaining SilentLambs were to believe that it isn't Jehovah's Organization, then they would no longer be afraid to speak up." AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. HOWEVER, they should be made to understand that they should speak up regardless of whether it is Jehovah's WTBS or not, because it is OK to, because the WTBS is wrong on THIS issue, and not because it is or isn't HIS organization. What good does it do to try to convince them that it isn't? If you can't, then they remain silent. So why take that approach at all? Why not do what is in the interests of the victim, and not those of the one trying to "help"? I will not dismiss the WTBS as Jehovah's Organization just because they are incorrect on this issue, yet at the same time I refuse to honestly believe that the WTBS is HIS Organization just because of all the positives they display in relation to False Religion. But until a better FDS shows itself, then I will continue to support the current one in all it's dealings EXCEPT THIS ONE (dealing). Like I have said before, we will soon find out if it is or not. Either way, as long as I stay faithful to Jehovah, then I will not die. Right? And finally, if any of you can honestly say that when the WTBS finally realizes that it is incorrect on this issue and changes it's policies to fully support the victims, and there are no more Silent Lambs (because THAT IS THE GOAL HERE, RIGHT???), that you will change YOUR views about the WTBS and fully support IT, then I will respond to your next remarks. Otherwise, I will read them and say nothing, hoping someday that you too can stop making this issue about something it is not. SEE YOU IN CALI!!!!

ilidio Tuesday, March 16, 2004
@ 12:46 PM
Hang in there V Miffed off
V MIFFED OFF, This is usually the case that we never believed what was going on till it comes to us. Is at that point that we discover that the elders are not there to support us but to cover up whatever comes to light so that the congregation doesn't get a bad name. I don't know how long you have been out but for me it has been about 2 years. At first we were skeptical about celebrating what the JW's call world holidays. However my wife and I started doing just that about a year ago, I felt guilty at the beginning but not anymore. That has been the best thing for us. It makes us feel totally free from the watchtower org. Might I mention that my wife was born and raised as a JW till she came out at the age of 30 I was there for 15. Now we can say we have a life. We are finally free to think for ourselves. We are so happy that my son (16 months old) will finally be free and be able to enjoy life as a regular person. No more being told what to do, what to eat, how to dress and where to go. This is the best thing I can do for my son by letting him explore his limits to the maximum. Just hang in there. There is life after leaving the JW. I can assure you of that. If they no longer talk to you just don't worry about it they do the same thing to me and everyone else. I make an effort to talk to all the witnesses I meet. You should see how they run away from me. I don't care I still talk to all the witnesses I see. I actually have a kick at that. It is unbelievable how embarrassed they get. Remember one thing: true religion is based on 2 things: LOVE & FORGIVNESS. If they are not showing either that must tell you something.

ilidio Wednesday, March 17, 2004
@ 6:36 AM
To: KL
There you go again. You speak against the wtbs and than you defend them. Either you are with me or against me, you can not serve 2 masters, dit you not learn that at the kingdom hall? Yes, this site was designed for silentlambs, the problem is that they have been led and oppressed for so long that they do not know how to speak for themselves most of the times. Just for the record it is just not on this issue that they are wrong, unfortunately they are wrong on many others. You also mentioned that soon we will find out it is the right religion or not and if you stay faithful you will never die. Is that new light that just came from the WTBS? Did it come through the same channel as before? If so it is not reliable. Sorry to disappoint you but for over 100 years people have claimed that they will never die and guess what all of them died and still dieing . I have said it and say it once more, the light that you so talk about has been disconnected a long time ago. My wife completely disagrees with me on this issue, she claims that the light was never connected to the WTBS period. She is a smart woman she might be right on this one. You keep looking for something that does not exist, you keep waiting for something that will never come. I do feel sorry for you, I really do. WTBS changing its policies? Finally admitting that they were wrong? You live on that small world called Kingdom Hall where you only receive information from 1 channel. Please pay extra and get cable. It will be more expensive, but remember you get what you pay for.

ds Wednesday, March 17, 2004
@ 8:00 AM

I BELIEVE JEHOVAH uses certain people.. "tools" to reveal matters. ex: Deborah in the bible.

AK Wednesday, March 17, 2004
@ 10:52 AM
Eye Openers!
I came across this site about a year ago. I was in a very 'vague' way aware that something was wrong in the organization in the matter of child abuse, but of course it was all hush-hush as per WTBTS policiy within the congregation. One thing that this site helped me and my wife to accomplish in our lives, was that it caused us to look at the organization in a whole new light after 30 years as faithful witnesses. We had become aware of a serious lack of love among the brotherhood due to matters (no abuse involved) that had happened in our own family, but did not know where else to look due to the constant teaching to avoid 'anything apostate'. In the past six months, we have read three books that helped us get a clear view of the organization and it's teachings, doctrine, and control. Proverbs 4:7 states " Wisdom is the prime thing. Aquire wisdom; and with all that you aquire, aquire understanding." Wisdom in matters of importance is dependent of knowledge. Knowledge that is restricted to a single source becomes propaganda and indoctrinal in nature. It creates 'tunnel vision', and begins to exclude reasonable thought. Many on these pages are at the early stages of considering the place where they stand before Jehovah as a part of this organization. Please, think and choose based on a broad base of understanding and freedom of thought, freedom of the sort that Paul refered to in Galatians 5:1. I know from where I speak as one who has been an active baptized supporter of this organization since I was a teenager, and now for over 32 years. It is your choice, don't let others make it for you. May the God of Peace and Hope, bless the spirit to do what is right that dwells within you! Jeff

vern Wednesday, March 17, 2004
@ 2:23 PM
to like I said
You seem to think that the child molestation is the only thing that the WTBS is wrong on. I think it would be beneficial for you to do some research on some of the many sites about the org. that are avaliable. You might start by checking about the watchtowers affliation with the united nations. Heres hoping you find the real truth------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-At sl we focus on protecting children and remain neutral on doctrine or beliefs.

the mole Wednesday, March 17, 2004
@ 7:01 PM
the invitation
the mole*** they came to invite me to the memorial but it was men who i didnt know. just as i have told before they mask the bones with white wash to appear clean. i asked them the same question like before as these younger ones like parrots performed their task like well pets. no answer same worn scrips why they think the org is clean and that nothing ever happend on nbc or nightline..just rumors to ignore and that evil doesnt exist in their realm of ignorance. give it a few more years and child molestion will be another of satans lies to discredit them and what they believe. these new elders bragged on the growth of the org which we know is number fudging but they praised the holy name for all the good they said they done...the mole

Jah's girl Thursday, March 18, 2004
@ 1:01 AM
wrong again
All ACCUSED pedophiles as well as those who have been convicted are on the same restrictions. And as you say, they stay on them for a minimum of 20 years. The courts only apply that to convicted offenders ( parole conditions) The two witness rule does not apply to either reporting abuse to the police or placing an accused person on restrictions. There were not two witnesses needed to have a former friend of mine disfellowshipped AND reported to the police, leading to his being imprisoned. Like I said - you have it ALL wrong. My father is an elder, BTW. I have seen some of the letters and of course read all the WT articles on this. They clearly state it is a moral obligation to report any abuse to the police even if it is not a legal requirement. ---------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Classic head in the sand reality....I was an elder for 20 years. Accused molesters do not have any restrictions, I know several that are serving as elders, circuit overseers and even members of the Governing Body. I see no restrictions as does their accusers. Perhaps you need to read the BOE letters then you might have a better perspective and not distort the facts of this matter as well as ask your father a few questions he might not care to answer.

M.A.N. Friday, March 19, 2004
@ 10:55 AM
To jah's girl
Before I get into anything with you, I want you to clarify a few things. You said your father is an elder. What letters have you seen? I hope not letters that only elders are supposed to see? Answer that question. Secondly, you are wrong about the two witness rule. I've heard numerous stories of a girl reporting that a male molested her. The accused man and the girl were then required to go to a JC meeting where 3 elders asked the molester if he did it. If he says no, that's the end of it. Some of these elders have even asked personal questions of the girl, who in many cases is still a child. Questions such as: where did he touch you, are you sure, what were you wearing, did you have an orgasm, did you allow it, did you like it, etc. First of all elders are not psychologists. I will have my Doctorate in Psychology soon and I wouldn't ask those questions. I would have a female police officer along with a psychologist (female) take care of the case. Any elder who would ask those questions is a pervert and should be shot. The penalty under the Mosiac Law for this crime was death. What would any elders know about psychology? No offense to bill or others who are intelligent and do humble work, but most elders I know are window washers or sell vacuum cleaners. Since the WT hates college so much, the Society has produced a group of elders who, with few exceptions, are ignorant, brain-washed, and drunk on power. They are failures in life and in their secular jobs, so they get off by being important in a group of ignorant, "can't have one single thought of their own" people who are too blind or stupid to see the truth. The WT is a cult, pure and simple. There is an old joke about testing something: it smells like sh*t, it tastes like sh*t, it feels like sh*t, glad I didn't step in it. Well, the WT not only steps in it, it manufactures it by the ton. Here are some facts for you: 49% percent of Jewish people graduate from college, 4.9% of JW's graduate. Most other religions fall between those two figures. That should tell you something. Allowing 12 old men who live in an ivory tower to tell you what to do is moronic. I've read every book the WT ever printed. I even own and read Studies in the Scriptures. I'm tired of the lies, cover-ups and flip- flops. Do you know that if Russell came back today, he'd never even recognize this religion? Child abuse is a criminal matter. It is none of the elders' business. If they want to DF someone, fine. But the police should be handling it. And even if they don't live in a "reporting state", common decency and a desire to see a pervert brought to justice and to prevent him from doing it again should move any decent human being to report it to the police instead of hiding behind the law. Someday the law will require that all 50 states report it. Then what are the elders going to do? Claim eclesiastical privilege? I thought the WT didn't have a clergy/laity class?? I guess they do. You better clarify your position and answer these questions. Jesus warned that all who do wrong will answer for it. That includes the GB, no matter how holy they or anyone else thinks they are. You also need to explain the story about the former friend, what he did, and what happened. The elders have never jumped on anyone's case if there was only one witness to the crime. They turn their heads and play dumb. It's easy to do, they don't have to try very hard since they are so close anyway. I lost my wife and child because my little girl was molested by a man who the elders knew was a molester and that he was visiting my home. They never warned me or my wife. They said they had no concrete proof. They had concrete all right, but it was between their ears. They will pay for what they did. As bill has pointed out many times, if you stumble the little ones, Jesus said you might as well go swimming with a chunk of concrete for a life raft. You are seriously deficient in IQ points. Find your brain.

KL Friday, March 19, 2004
@ 11:09 AM
What?? Get Cable?
And get rid of my DirecTV in High Definition? NO FREAKIN' WAY!!!! :) :) *** As for the other stuff, of course I didn't hear from the WTBS that I would never die. That is my own idea about who I can get everlasting life from - Jehovah, not the WTBS. That was my point. I will always serve Jehovah, whether it is through an organization or on my own, I just choose the WTBS as my current way of doing so. So what if I'm wrong - at least I'm there, able to watch over everything. I have no blinders, and I do not live in the Kingdom Hall world. I just choose not to talk against the WTBS and their mistakes/misunderstandings on other UNRELATED ISSUES. I am not a staunch supporter, nor am I a rabid hater. It is an organization of imperfect men and of course they have been wrong from time to time. BUT SO HAVE YOU AND I!!! Who are we to judge? How many times has the weather man been wrong, yet you still watch him every night anyway. You find me an organization of PERFECT humans on earth who serves Jehovah, and I'm all over it. *** And you didn't answer my question about your intentions. If you will not change your view of the WTBS if they change their policies on this matter, then you are proving that you are not interested in this issue at all, but are only interested in jumping from supposed error to error as a WTBS basher. *** AND THANK YOU, SILENTLAMBS, FOR REPLYING TO "Vern". United Nations - Geez! Reading into everything what they need to in order to further their apostate teachings. It is amazing how these people so readily believe everything they hear from Satan's world, but God forbid that I be allowed to believe what I hear from the WTBS. I am really getting tired of coming on here and having to sift through tons of anti-doctrine and anti-belief crap just to find what SHOULD be on here. You go, Bill!!--------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-At sl we have many brothers and sisters within the organization that quietly support our work. We may get a letter in the mail or a private email and occasionaly a post on the guestbook. Also there are those that were abused in the organization and have left for the circumstance they were put into. We understand there is much anger and that comes through on the guestbook. We allow JW's to express their views and xjws to the extent it relates to abuse, sometimes it may go further in order to allow others to understand the person's perspective. Speaking out on abuse is not always in a simple thought and encouraging an individual to write or speak you have to allow them to say what they feel. For those reasons what is on the Guestbook will probably always irritate someone but bear in mind at least it is a place where you can express a few thoughts about what you are feeling if that helps you find closure and healing then we have accomplished our purpose. We think as you will see we do not link to xjw websites, forums, or chatrooms nor do we allow links on the guestbook. For those that wish to accesss such material you can easily find it on any search engine. The focus of silentlambs remains protecting children and requesting better policies from Watchtower in that regard as well as raising abuse awareness to help others outside the JW environment. Read the sl mission statment and we think you will find we have stayed true to our mission in helping others. So try to be kind to one another, you are all here because of issues related to abuse whether it was personal or within your family. It is a link you all share. This is a place to try and heal while educating yourself about abuse.

Cheri Romero Friday, March 19, 2004
@ 1:01 PM
To the mole
Hey there friend, I have been trying to contact you for some time now. Please contact me then. I would like to see about emailing or meeting or something? Or if not, maybe you could just communicate with me here. Let me know. Cheri

Cheri Romero Friday, March 19, 2004
@ 1:15 PM
To Jah's girl
You my dear are not supposed to be on this website at all. Why are you here spouting crap that you are completely ignorant of. You are trying to sound knowledgable but instead you sound like an imbecile. What really amazes me is the ability that you members have of holding your hands over your eyeballs and mimicking what you have heard for so many years from men who (we know of one for sure) have been and are child molesters themselves. Think about it. Do your research. Gain knowledge and study the bible. THE BIBLE!!!!! Not just what they tell you to study. Not just what they wrote but the bible. Go back and look at the beginnings of the organization and see that these original men were sick men. It only stands to reason that child molesters would originate from the top. And it does. And they are there. Lurking. This is NOT what Jehovah wants. When the "brothers" (no brothers of mine tho) say "wait on Jehovah" and that "he will handle it in his time"? Well that time is now. He is handling it. Open your eyes for once or shut up and get off of this demonized site that you are forbidden to be on.

Friday, March 19, 2004
@ 4:34 PM
To Ilidio, AK, and Jah's girl
Ilidio and AK, I think your comments are great and so on the mark! Jah's girl, I think someone is pulling 'the wool over your eyes', that you have been misinformed, misled, and misguided. If things were generally going the way you seem to think they've been going, then there wouldn't be thousands of people turning to Silentlambs for help and support. There may be isolated cases few and far between which have been dealt with as you believe, but not most of them. Most of them have been so terribly mishandled that lives have been irrevocably damaged. These people have been horribly traumatized. This is not a lie. This is not being made up. It is factual. Facts are facts whatever an individual may choose to believe or want to believe. You need to look into the pedophilia situation more deeply, really investigate the issues here. Elders, by the way, are not encouraged to report the truth, the facts about pedophilia among Jehovah's Witnesses to the 'rank and file'. You may as well be talking to brick walls. Don't count on elders really leveling with you about abuse issues. Do your own investigating. Truly "investigate all things".

Jah's girl Friday, March 19, 2004
@ 9:41 PM
How do you know?
How do YOU know that any accused pedophiles are still serving as overseers? Have you adjudicated all these cases or is it just hearsay? My father is not a liar and he knows you have it all wrong. The BOE letters dont prove that anyone accused remains an overseer or servant and all the letters I have seen say the opposite. What ones are you reading?--------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-insults without facts perhpas you might wish to continue to educate yourself on this topic, BOE 6- 1-01, quote; "There is one exception to the above direction: The elders may have written to the branch office and given full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brothers past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch. If therefore, such an appointed man moves to another congregation a letter confirming the move should be sent, addressed to the Societys Legal Department." This of course is for confessed molesters, for those not confessed they get the benefit of this statement from the JW media website; "If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15)" Perhaps you and your Dad need to read more material from the organization? Thousands of child molesters serve in appointed positions within the organization due to the information above. Brothers and sisters like you defend their right to do so, shame on you. Luke 17:2

KL Saturday, March 20, 2004
@ 12:50 PM
Gotta say goodbye
At the request of my attorney, I am no longer able to post here. She is afraid I will say something that will ruin my case. I will miss you all, and will let you know as soon as something transpires in my case. I will continue to read your comments, and hope to meet some of you soon. Thanks Bill for all your help, and I promise to work on the steps soon. GO KINGS!!!!

M.A.N. Saturday, March 20, 2004
@ 2:47 PM
To jah's girl
I don't know your father, so I don't know if he's a liar. A liar is someone who knowingly states a falsehood. Your father may believe something to be true, but if he says it and it's not true, he's not a liar, he's just mistaken. A liar is someone who knows what he is saying is false. There is a difference. BUT THE QUESTION REMAINS:::Why are you reading BOE letters???? Aren't you the daughter of an elder?? Is he supposed to share those letters with you?? I don't think so. Your father knows we have it all wrong?? He's ignorant of the facts if that is his view. I was a servant also. Your father is no smarter than me or bill or anyone else who has suffered because of the WT. And like you were told before, you aren't supposed to be on this site, I thought. If you are jah's girl, then obey the WT and stay off the Internet and keep your head buried. If you intend to learn the truth, then keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears open. That's why you have one mouth, but two ears. You should listed more than you talk.

Saturday, March 20, 2004
@ 6:12 PM
A child who needs help
******URGENT ALERT***** Dear Friend: When Sheryl Coe Hardy abandoned her toddler at a shopping mall in Florida, he was put in foster care. When the child was returned to her, she and her husband abused, humiliated, tortured and killed the child. She was given 30 years in prison and got out in 9 because of "overcrowding." Last week an Illinois appeals court--disregarding the opinions of the Illinois Department of Children and Families and the Jersey County State's Attorney--ruled that another of Hardy's children -- a three year-old -- should be taken from a foster family where he lives with siblings and given to Hardy. The court's ruling is potentially lethal for two reasons. First, it puts a vulnerable child in danger again, without regard for the bonds he has formed with his family. But it also would set a disastrous precedent: if this kind of past abuse is not enough evidence that a parent is unsafe, it is difficult to imagine how the courts will protect any child. Your help is needed right away! The Illinois Department of Children and Families, the State's Attorney and the Attorney General's office have not decided whether or not to appeal this decision to the Supreme Court. Please take just two minutes and encourage them to do so. Don't let them give up on this child yet. One critical decision hangs in the balance... and this is an example of one time you CAN make a real difference. Please go to www.protect.org right now and make your voice heard. Thank you for standing up for kids! The Staff and Volunteers at PROTECT ------------------------------------------- PROTECT--The National Association to PROTECT Children 46 Haywood Street, Suite 315, Asheville, NC 28801 PHONE: 828-350-9350 FAX: 828-350-9352 WEBSITE: www.protect.org EMAIL: info@protect.org PETA has 750,000 members. NRA has 4 million members. AARP has 35 million members. Have you joined PROTECT yet?

Ilidio Saturday, March 20, 2004
@ 7:20 PM
To: KL
I am appalled by your lack of intelligence when it comes to this topic (WTBS handling child molestation cases). Shame on you as a human being by trying to defend an organization that covers up their mistakes and gives refuge to molesters who if judged by the mosaic law would have been put to death. Molestation is a very serious crime, more so when children involved. I hope you or any one in your family never have to experience it, otherwise I will guaranty you will change your mind regarding the WTBS policies. One can see from your obdurate statements that you are a dads little girl. From what I understand you get private information from him, and one must wonder if he is sharing (##@$$#@&*) something else with you ,that he is not supposed too. You are very much in denial and under his control, perhaps embarrassed to talk about it, so you just ignore it and pretend nothing peculiar is going on? Just a thought that crossed my mind. I pray to God that nothing of that nature is happening. You keep saying they (WTBS) is an organization made of imperfect humans. Just seems so odd that God, an almighty God might I add, would single out just a few uneducated idiots to run his organization. That being the case he (GOD) must be a very bad judge of character. If the message comes from God through the holy spirit, how could they be so wrong so many times? Can you recall any passages in the bible when God sent any of the prophets with the wrong message? I assume you have 2 hands and 10 fingers or 8 fingers and 2 thumbs (just in case you dont understand my English, after all it is my 3rd language). Let see if you can count how many wrong messages did the prophets received from God in the past? On another matter, you keep stating that if I find a perfect organization you will join. As far as I am concerned you can stay with WTBS, I have no problems with that. Everyone should be able to join whomever they choose too, that is why God gave us a brain, so that we can think for ourselves, not them thinking for us&&&&.. What annoys me is when people like you try to defend their rotten policies. By the way one does not need to be part of an organization in order to serve God. Havent you figured that one out yet? ***Now to the question that you keep asking me, which by the way I have answered you before. Please dont be drawn into delusional thinking that they will ever change their policies! WTBS changing their policies? Admitting that they were erroneous? It would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of an needle or a pig learning how to fly. They are more preoccupied in keeping things quiet so as not to give a bad name to the Org. What they dont realize is that they are accomplishing the opposite. Dont you worry, God is not so blind to see what is going on. Their time will come. If you believe that God I impartial and just, please believe that! I would give you a few more points, however your time is up, I made up my mind that I will not spend more than 5 minutes answering your remarks, with that have a nice day.

Jah's girl Saturday, March 20, 2004
@ 7:36 PM
re complaints
That BOE letter only confirms what I said and you said previously - if the abuse occurred MANY years ago ( other letters mention specifically 20 years) Actually you are partly right about accused ( but not proven) persons remaining elders and overseers - only if the accuser is an adult and did not complain when a child. If they did not come forward when the abuse happened then it is not viewed the same as a complaint from a distressed child. The same happens in most court actions by adults too. They are rarely successful unless the accused person has molested others - then there is more than one witness to the accused devious character and behavior. We had two such cases before the courts here recently involving prominent people in the community. Both failed because of the time lapse. Hence the new children's book and other WT publications stress the importance of children and parents communicating - even that parents should take the initiative and ask their children if they have been molested. ------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Your posts are starting to expose you as you speak with authority about things you know are not so. All accused child molesters get the benefit of two eye witnesses before ANY action is taken against them. You well know this as does anyone else in the organization that understands the way the judicial process works. The new Great Teacher book is an insult to anyone that deals with child abuse as we have clearly stated on this website, it lays the blame on the child. Yet you blindly hold this up as a benefit to children????? This is about the third time you have been asked to educate yourself about this topic instead of making blanket uneducated statements that insult abuse survivors. Further posts that ignore boe letters and the evidence presented on this website will be deleted.

PS Saturday, March 20, 2004
@ 7:43 PM
chiropractor case
Im a naturopath and I know that epileptics should not discontinue medication and although I can prescribe natural remedies and lifestyle changes to reduce seizures ( which often still occcur in people on meds!) I would never recommend discontinuing the stronger meds. The JW fiance meant well - drugs to cause side effects and some of them cannot be taken during pregnancy - eg. carbamazepine causes serious birth defects. So I can understand the problems this young man faced. But I dont agree with it. BTW - arent you being too harsh with Jah's girl? Nowhere does she say she agrees with allowing accused pedophiles being allowed to be elders.-------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-no

Jah's girl Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 1:00 AM
To M.A.N
The BOE letters are posted on this site, as are numerous other WT publications dealing with child abuse. My father has never shown me any BOE letters but I have been assured the contents are no different to what is in WT and Awake articles on dealing with child abuse. eg the WT and Awake articles advise parents to report abuse to the police. -------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-inaccurate information; no article are book requires parents to report abuse to police, perhaps we should offer a $1,000,000 reward to anyone that can find one place in JW literature where reporting child abuse is required.

Ilidio Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 7:15 AM
To: kl
KL, sorry but this section of the message was supposed to be to jah's girl. My appologies to you. I am appalled by your lack of intelligence when it comes to this topic (WTBS handling child molestation cases). Shame on you as a human being by trying to defend an organization that covers up their mistakes and gives refuge to molesters who if judged by the mosaic law would have been put to death. Molestation is a very serious crime, more so when children involved. I hope you or any one in your family never have to experience it, otherwise I will guaranty you will change your mind regarding the WTBS policies. One can see from your obdurate statements that you are a dads little girl. From what I understand you get private information from him, and one must wonder if he is sharing (##@$$#@&*) something else with you ,that he is not supposed too. You are very much in denial and under his control, perhaps embarrassed to talk about it, so you just ignore it and pretend nothing peculiar is going on? Just a thought that crossed my mind. I pray to God that nothing of that nature is happening

M.A.N. Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 8:26 AM
to Jah's girl and to llidio
First, llidio, I think you made many intelligent comments in your post. KL obviously has a problem and is an ignorant WT robot. And to Jah's girl, you are even more idiotic. You still have not explained why you are reading letters to elders. Are you an elder, YES OR NO???? And people have been tried in court and convicted years after an adult came forward and claimed to have been molested as a child. Just because you know of two cases where that didn't happen doesn't make it policy. I'm a Psychology major, my IQ is 150, and my child was molested. The therapists are now trying to make sure that someone doesn't commit suicide over this, and believe me, someone is planning to. I know. I lost my wife and daughter for life because I exposed those bastards and my wife stayed loyal to the WT. I may have loved her, but she is brain-washed. So are you. bill is right. Find and use what little brain you have or shut the hell up. Stupid people annoy me.

MA Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 9:26 AM
The good ship?
Leave the shore on high tide&With Kings Law by its side& Sailed the good ship Watch Tower&With the captain and its crew&And the cabin boy young Tommy Drew&Their mission to sail round the world&To take their things to every port& Along the trip poor Tommy Drew&Complained to Captain of being raped&By dirty old John the ships first mate&Now the Captain had a dilemma&Cabin boys where often raped&None had complained until that date&His mission was to sail the world&To go to every port of call&Dirty John would help him reach that goal&Curse that bloody Tommy Drew&Curse him if he should tell the crew&So he then devised a cunning plan& He told a story to every man&He reminded them that when at sea&The Captains law is all they need&He belittled Tommy in front of them all&So Tommy tripped and then he fell&This was the chance for the Captain to strike&He formed a court in the middle of the night&He hauled poor Tommy Drew&Right up in front of all the crew&With no explanation to file and rank&He made poor Tommy walk the plank&Poor Tommy dropped into the sea&With no skills to weather thee&He begged for God to forgive his sin&Just before he was done in&A ship, a sail he saw on the horizon&The good ship SL with Captain Bill Bowen&He helped him up from the sea&He told him that he was only a fellow worker too&That his mission was to take his things to every port&But whatever port he followed the Watch Tower&Girls and boys where being raped just like you&In fact most of his ship where made of this loyal crew& Such a noise he said I could not ignore&The victims silence was beginning to roar&Scurvy and rough but loyal crew&Bill Bowen will admit this is true&Even so Watch Tower theyre coming for you.

KL Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 11:52 AM
Thanks, Ilidio
for clarifying that for me. I was kinda wondering what happened between us! :) As for you, M.A.N., nice try. I am no more an idiotic WT robot than you are an intelligent one. And seein' how your comment about me was way off base, I'd say that means you are pretty stupid. Robot, huh? If that's honestly how you feel about someone who is suing the WTBS and speaking out in public about his abuse, then you are mocking not only my efforts but everyone else who stands up for victim's rights. Way to go, jerk!

Dale B Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 12:58 PM
thanks Bill
There is no way to say thank you enough for what you are doing for children who have been victims of sex abuse among the JW's. Your added marches, summits and organized meetings only adds to the wonderful things you are doing to help. Keep up the good work! You have shown victims and their families that there really is a light at the end of the tunnel. Dale

Jacob Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 3:38 PM
abuse to be reported to police even if abuser is a spouse
From the oct 8 1993 Awake: What, though, when the abuser is one's own beloved mate? Sad to say, many women fail to take decisive action. To be sure, it is never easy to face the ugly reality of a mate who is a child abuser. Emotional ties, and even financial dependency, can be overwhelmingly strong. The wronged wife may also realize that taking action could cost her husband his family, his job, his reputation. The hard truth is, though, that he may just be reaping what he has sown. (Galatians 6:7) Innocent children, on the other hand, stand to lose much more if they are not believed and protected. Their whole future is at stake. They do not have the resources that adults have. Trauma can scar and shape them adversely for life. They are the ones who need and deserve tender treatment.Compare Genesis 33:13, 14. Parents must therefore make every reasonable effort to protect their children! Many responsible parents choose to seek out professional help for an abused child. Just as you would with a medical doctor, make sure that any such professional will respect your religious views. Help your child rebuild his or her shattered self-esteem through a steady outpouring of parental love. Also from Aussie congregation letter: We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities where required by Law to do so, even where there is only one witness. (Romans 13:1) In any case, the elders know that if the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.---- Galatians 6:5. THESE ARE BOTH PUBLISHED ON THIS WEBSITE. ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Our $1,000,000 suggested reward is still intact; not one place do we see parents required to report abusers to the police and the Aussie letter caused such an uproar among elders due to the absolute lie it told that the Aussie branch had to follow up with a second letter to the BOE saying that reporting to authorities was basically calling them (wt)when abuse occurred. Now why did you forget that letter???? Here is the link for you to review, we are sure you just couldn't find it since it was right under the letter you posted... http://www.silentlambs.org/education/aussieBOElette.cfm

NN Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 5:36 PM
Stop defending a lost case
I think all you who are trying to defend the WTBTS should consider that this abuse thing is only a symptom of a greater evil, that this group has in common with every other fundamentalistic group, no matter what religion they belong to. And it is a total disregard for human values. If you listen carefully of what the WTBTS is saying about "outsiders" you will find that they are not considered as humans, for example they have no moral, no feelings, are unable to show or feel compassion etc. And this is also how they judge insiders who, for some reason - certainly not scriptual reasons - are considered to be unwanted or unneccessary or just despised because they need someone to despise to ease the frustration in the group. Among the unwanted you will of course find the abuse victims, the battered wifes and children, ostracised ones like myself, but certainly not the abusers, the drunkards, the narcisistic elders etc. What I'm saying is that this group is a destructive group. I know because I was one of the ostracised ones, probably because I never stopped thinking (thinking is a very dangerous activity in such a group, only the leaders have the right to think), or perhaps because of some slander. However, I survived, but it was close. It's like either you make or breake. I've learnt a lot, among other thing to value people for what they are - not what they are trying to look like. And that no one has copyright on Jehova God. And I have really learnt that the Barbie smiles that seeme to have got stuck on the Witnesses faces, are a mask that hides depressions, agressions, fear and frustration etc, it is not the smile produced by the happines associated to the spritual fruits or even the smile of a content person. My only advice is: leave as soon as you can, but do it on your own terms. The WTBTS has no right to anything it is just a sordid fundamentalistic sect that like every other fundamentalistic sect are empowering men to use and abuse women and children, and of course other men.

ron w Sunday, March 21, 2004
@ 6:28 PM
what a find.
I'am so glad to find such sight.

PS Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 12:50 AM
$1,000,000 please
We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities where required by Law to do so, even where there is only one witness. (Romans 13:1) In any case, the elders know that if the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.--- -Galatians 6:5. From congregation letter sent to all congregations worldwide in 2002. The authorities spoken of in Romans 13 ( read to vs 6) are clearly legal and secular authorities ( "kings, "rulers") - ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-It seems few can read the original suggested offer, "Find one place where all members are encouraged and required to report child abuse allegations to police." That is a million dollar statement that is unfindable in any JW directives. Answer the challenge instead of pitiful half statements riddled with legalize and half truths.

lloyd Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 3:16 AM
11 years a member
11 years of trying made 1 mistake,the axe fell,12 years of trying to forgive myself ,let alone the wts

NN Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 4:20 AM
To Jacob: Grow Up!
Well if everything that was written in declarations was adhered to I assure it would be paradise on earth. As it is declarations like the text you're refering to are not even worth the paper they are written on. They are just a way of covering up the real situation. The WTBTS is a fundamental sect that empower the men to do as they like, as long as they do not get in conflict with more powerful males. They have a very special way of handling complaining women, children etc, it is like this: The elder listens and says that he understands, and will take care of it, and that there is no reason to talk about this to others. And then what happens? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If the complainer insists she will be told not to spread slander and eventually she or he will be expelled because of slander or unsubmissiveness. And this is the way the elders do in everything from the most unimportant cases to abuse cases - their only aim is to hush everything down. But if they can use the information in their own power struggles - then it is of course quite a different story.

geevee Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 6:15 AM
huh
Well, we had our meeting yesterday. The speaker giving the talk 96 "False Religions End is Near" highlighted 10 things that set us apart from the worlds religions. Number 9 was how terrible the catholic church is because it moves the pedophile priests around and is now paying huge amounts of compensation to their victims. I felt like telling him to get educated. Most don't want to see it. He had no right to criticize. Our track record is also appalling.

M.A.N. Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 7:12 AM
to KL
I'm sorry for the error. I chose the wrong heading that is stored on my PC, I wasn't feeling well and slipped up. I apologize. My comments were for jah's girl only and I clicked on you as well. The heading is put in automatically. I thought I had sent a post in the past commending you, if not, and you are suing the WT, thank you. Again, I'm sorry.

Julie W Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 7:28 AM
George Pilcher
I dont know where to start...All I know is I want this man exposed. Yes he is a Witness, no surprise there, they know what kind of man he is as well....how do they know, because I stood outside their pathetic church and handed them all leaflets explaining what he had done to me from the age 0f 18 months, well thats as far back as I can remember, with the aid of photographs. The elders said to me, as long as he Confesses his sins, he will be freely welcomed back into the group??? Come to Kingdom Hall people, Bring your children, it`s ok dont worry, we know who all our Child Molesters are here!!! Better the devil you know ay!!!! I think no!!!! I need help with this somebody....let me get Justice E.mail me Juliedenn@aol.com

Ilidio Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 7:53 PM
You go Geevee
Ever wonder if the elder giving the talk (False Religions End is Near) was actually talking about the end of the Jehovahs Witnesses Religion? You deserve a medal for bringing out that excellent point

AK Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 9:34 PM

As I have stated before, no one in my family or close friends were ever personally abused during my time in the 'truth'. But I can relate an interesting experience that I was involved with. I had served as a MS and as a regular pioneer for many years. A sister I had pioneered with came to me and confided that her husband was mentally, verbally, and at times physically abusing her. She had approached the elders with the problem and had been told that there was nothing they could, or should I say would do. So she looked to me for a shoulder to cry on at times as she struggled through the ordeal. My wife was fully aware of the situation, and supported me in my support of this kind hearted sister. Our 'sessions' were frequent and always above board, and went on for four or five months till she regretably returned to her husband. Usually my wife was there also, and if not then 'Karla' and I would talk on the porch in plain view of the neighbors. One day I was actually accused of 'fornication or actions that could lead to that' even though there had not ever been any physical contact at all between us. The elders knew that, and knew that my wife was aware of the matter and usually involved in the discussions. It was soon clear that the problem was jealousy. These men resented that anyone would have the 'kohunes' to do the job that they wanted to be glorified for doing. I was actually only being a supportive friend, and they were angry that someone would dare! How sad that must make the God of Love, Jehovah. 'Karla' was close to suicide over her ordeal, and the elders were more worried that perhaps a bit of their authority would be eroded than her mental and emotional survival. How terrible that our little childen have to deal with these adult issues, and worse, with no one to talk to. The Catholic Church is often condemned by the WTBTS for it's abuse issues, but the Catholics have an upside that we will never see in the organization - many of the 'good' priests (and I am sure that the morally good ones outnumber the molesters manifold) have been trained in mental health and have credentials as counselors - they can actually help those needing encouragement. What is needed is an end to the abuse and the coverup, but in the meantime many shattered young lives may be restored and gain closure due to efforts like that of SL! Thank you SL for giving JW children a venue!

PS Monday, March 22, 2004
@ 10:06 PM
Oct 8 1993 Awake!
As previously quoted by a user, the above mentioned WT publication advises a mother ( women cant be elders) to take "decisive action" in the event that it is her spouse who is the abuser, even if such action would lead to loss of employment, reputation, financial loss. Simply reporting abuse to the elders would not lead to unemployment so the "decisive action" referred to MUST be to report the abuse to the police. ------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Wrong again, if the brother worked for another brother and was DF he would lose employment as mandated by the organization, lose reputation, and financial loss. to advisee to take "decisive actions" is an unclear statement taht coudl easily be clarified by one simple statement, "CALL THE POLICE" funny why that statement is absent from all references to child abuse to this day. Has anyone thought to ask why? Has anyone thought? Meanwhile the children are hurt.

KL Tuesday, March 23, 2004
@ 1:35 AM
I've got good news:
No, I didn't save money by switching to Geico, but I did meet with my attorney today and all is well so far. The WTBS and other defendants were served with my complaint on March 11, and I expect to feel the heat any day now. I finally informed my parents tonite that I am doing this, and to my surprise they are behind me 100%. It would appear that our efforts are starting to pay off, but the fight has just begun. While I do not hope for the demise of the whole WTBS, I cannot wait for the time when those within it who need to go are finally cast out and we can feel safe again. I will keep you updated as things progress.

KL Tuesday, March 23, 2004
@ 1:37 AM
23,720
Bill, any idea how big this number is now? I am sure it has increased, no? ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply- after two years of major news stories it would appear it could easily be over 30,000.

MKRW Tuesday, March 23, 2004
@ 6:27 AM
nb.
I would like to remind everyone that not all abuse perpetrated on young children (particularly those in the destructive cult of the WTBTS)is necessarily sexual or physical. In my personal opinion, (and it is a valid opinion, having been born into the cult and left it 27 years ago when I was 20) equally poisonous, abusive and destructive is the psychological effect that the brainwashing and segregation, taught by this society has on its own children. Let's not forget the effect that this type of abuse has. I am still struggling with my feelings of anger that this type of abuse left me with.

Undaunted Danny Tuesday, March 23, 2004
@ 6:57 AM
Watchtower's Lawyers
DROP A DIME,some useful facts:::: Lead lawyer for the WTS is; Philip Brumley Home address: 131 Brimstone Rd Patterson, NY 12563-2106 (845) 278 - 8138------- Brumley at "Brimstone",Hmmmm, hell burns hot for pedophiles and pedophile protectors.[Rev 21:8] -------- Registration Number New york registry: 2224871 PHILIP BRUMLEY WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK INC. 25 COLUMBIA HTS BROOKLYN NY 11201 (718) 560-5400 ------------------ Office; - ---- Philip Brumley born 1956, Firm: Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, Inc.---- Address: 100 Watchtower Dr Patterson, NY 12563-9204 --- Phone: (845) 306-1000 --- Fax: (845) 306-0709 --- Associates: Legal Department Personnel, Patterson, NY (Incomplete) Philip Brumley:( Coordinator ) Gregory Olds, Don Ridley, Carolyn Wah, Charles Creger, Joseph Jandrokovic,

Debbie Tuesday, March 23, 2004
@ 2:22 PM
allowing verbal attacks
By allowing verbal attacks on JW users such as Jah's girl and Jacob you are like any errant elders who have turned a blind eye to child abuse and have made this site a JW bashing site. From what I can see too you are blaming the whole organization for the actions of a few individual elders. I understand from what Ive read here of the court cases that the WTS is prepared to settle out of court with genuine victims of elder's negligence anyway.-------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-In the famous words of Forrest Gump, "stupid is as stupid does." 1. The Gvoerning Body has turned a blind eye to child abuse since they recieved a detailed report on the extent of the problem in 1992. 2. The Wt legal dept will spend one million dollars to see that abuse survivors never see one penny to compensate them for elder negligence. They offer victims NOTHING to help them while stabbing them in the back in every devious way possible. Shame on you for spreading misinformation that insults abuse survivors. Now if you consider this a verbal attack view it as well diserved...

MA Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 7:46 AM
Waiting on Jehovah
Is really a belief in fate. While it is true JWs teach against the evils of fate, in fact JWs do teach a form of fate, the philosophy of determinism which does not necessarily require a deity or supernatural support. It says that everything works by cause and effect, and everything is determined by prior causes. So there is no choice and the future is predetermined. In the Insight Book on page 853 it states Similarly, if, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: What are you doing? (Job 9:12; Isa 45:9; Da 4:35) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for with God all things are possible. (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for everything that he delighted to do he has done.Ps 115:3. The reasoning Book on page 141 states; Illustration: The owner of a radio can listen to the world news. But the fact that he can listen to a certain station does not mean that he does. He must first turn on the radio and then select the station. Likewise, Jehovah has the ability to foreknow events, but the Bible shows that he makes selective and discretionary use of that ability, with due regard for the free will with which he has endowed his human creation. Compare Genesis 22:12; 18:20, 21. By stating that Jehovah has the ability to foresee your eternal future means that your eternal future is already mapped out unless he uses his infinite ability of foreordination (he makes things happen) to change things. So according to the WTBS how does this happen? By divine providence as brought out in the Watchtower 81 12/15 quoting from a 1919 WT it says They are glad correspondingly to co-operate as fellow-servants with the Societys work, believing that thereby they are following the leadings of the Divine Providence, as well as the instructions of the Divine Word. So does Jehovah have the ability of infinite foresight and are JWs fates changed as brought out by dive providence from the society. What does that have to do with child abuse?

MA Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 7:52 AM
Waiting on Jehovah
To answer the first question does the context of Mt 19:26 suggest that Jesus was discussing the fundamental design of the universe or was he discussing Jehovahs ability to save people compared to mans inability? To get a more balanced understanding of this scripture in Mathew we could look at a similar account in Luke 18 The things impossible with men are possible with God. Jehovah eternally judges people (good or bad) on what is in a persons heart according to their actions. If Jehovah does not have the ability of infinite foreknowledge, could that be consistent with I John 3:19:20 which states, By this we shall know that we originate with the truth, and we shall assure our hearts before him 20 as regards whatever our hearts may condemn us in, because God is greater than our hearts and knows all things.? Yes, because to know all things is to know everything there is to know. If every humans future was able to be known then according to this scripture Jehovah would know it. There is nowhere in the bible to suggest that he tunes into the six oclock news to get updates or has a giant forecasting super computer that he logs into to get predictions on the future. There is also no reason to believe he segregates his mind and puts all the bits of information there that is not convenient to know. Gen 22:12 which reads, for now I do know that you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son would be meaningless if that knowledge existed somewhere in Jehovahs mind. Consider Zech 4:10 to understand the extent of Jehovah searching things out, These seven are the eyes of Jehovah. They are roving about in all the earth. (Prov 15:3, Jere 16:17, 23:24-25, Heb 4:13). Does Jehovah not having the ability of infinite foresight suggest that he is not all powerful? Wouldnt that mean that Jehovah has power over all that he has created? Surely we would not imagine that Jehovah somehow has created a world where he has implanted some kind of back door just in case things go wrong. Why wouldnt Jehovah have the power to make a world where people have true free choice (Gen 2 16, 17)? To illustrate; A team of competent computer programmers are commissioned to spend 2 years to build a secure system. At the end of this period all the passwords are changed so they dont have system access. Would it be reasonable (especially in light of security flaws highlighted in the news of the worlds major computer systems) to believe they would be able to break into that system again? The reason they could more than likely break in is because no human can make a perfect system. Mankinds modern quest to create intelligent machines (neural networks, robots, artificial intelligence) has proved to be an impossible challenge. So while it is difficult or even impossible for man to create intelligent life with a self defining destiny the scripture in Luke 18:27 (He said: The things impossible with men are possible with God.) could apply. Let us consider also how unjust, stupid, unloving and meaningless the world would be if Jehovah had created us completely predictable (of course Jehovah can predict things but Am 3:7, 8 indicates that Jehovah more makes prophecy happen) It would be a bit like Robinson Crusoe playing hide the thimble (why not just make perfect world if we have no real free choice)!!! The bible simply states in Ecclesiastes 9:11 "time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all". To answer the second question the only time the expression divine providence was used in the bible was with the adoption of the name Christian in Acts 11:26.

MA Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 7:53 AM
Waiting on Jehovah
So what does this have to do with child abuse? If people believe that, their lives are determined except by divine providence as through, an organization they will not be impelled to protect themselves or others unless instructed to by that organization. Rather than empower themselves (by using the police, counseling, warning others etc) they will in fact to coin a worldly phrase accept their fate or to use the JW term wait on Jehovah. Please forgive my personal views on this matter; I would encourage you to look this up yourself. I personally believe the views I have expressed are pertinent from my dealings with the issue of child abuse. Maybe it would explain the very cavalier attitude shown by many JWs towards victims.

Ilidio Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 8:28 AM
To: Debbie
Debbie my dear, Of course we have to blame the organization for the actions of the individual elders. Havent you notice that they are acting upon the information from the mother ship? Which brings to mind the star trek, You know where the organization fits in? The Borg. Yes, we can compare them to the Borg. You have no thoughts of your own; you are a collective that assimilates, (resistance if futile, you will be assimilated). One thing you did not expect. We are the star trek and you can not assimilate us. You will continue to assimilate the weaker ones, no doubt about it, but not us. We are on the star trek, we are invincible.

NN Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 8:58 AM
To Debbie, you must realise facts
The argument Debbie and others are constantly repeating is a very old apologetic tactic, to try to awert critisism on the leader/s by putting the blame on persons lower down in the hierarchy. But neither they or any one else can deny that this organization acts in a very agressiv way towards so called wistle blowers. By expelling wistle blowers - a kind of symbolical death penalty - the effectively stop them from communicating with others. By doing so the organisation take their stand with the abusers - against the abused.

NN Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 1:47 PM
a possible explanation
Came across this quote in a novel (written before 9/11): "It seemed there was always close correlation between true believers and high body counts." The explanation to this horrific correlation is that it is all about power. To abuse/kill or any related activity is an ultimate way of manifesting ones personal power. The un/official support given to abusers/killers or suchlike persons is a manifestation of power relations. This is of course also the reason to why there is abuse in the WTBTS organisation, it is a way to strenghten and maintain the power relations in this group, and perhaps especialy in the "inner circle" consisting of influential elders (and of women who know how to play the power game in a patriarchal society). And of course all this is very much against the teachings of Christ.

Kristi Wednesday, March 24, 2004
@ 7:25 PM

I am also a victim of abuse by my step-father(Ralph Heroux) who was a ministrial servant. The abuse was covered up for 25 years until Massachusetts passed a law stating that if clergy knew of any victims of child abuse they had to report it to the District Attorney. My biological mother went to the Elders in the congregation, who told her they would handle it themselves. When I was notified by the D.A. office that my name was given to them I called the congregation where Ralph is a member and asked them what they were doing to protect others against this man? I was told "nothing, we did our job we reported him to the D.A. office."I knew I had to prosecute and protect other children. When I told a few relatives about the abuse my cousin and step-sister said they too were abused by this man. Ralph spent $50,000 for a retainer fee for a Lawyer. He then decicded he did not want to go to trial so he pleaded guilty. He received 1 year in prison followed by 2 years home confinement on an electronic bracelet, 3 years probation and lifetime parole. Ralph also lives in RI but since the crimes happened in MA he had to apply to move back to RI when he got out of prison. He was denied access to RI he can never move to the state, (where he owns a house). I also went to court and got a re-straining order against my biological mother who is still a JW and the 3 of us got one against Ralph. We have hired an Attorney who has already filed a lawsuit against and attached Ralphs property so he can't sell it until we settle with the JW. p.s. juliedenn@aol.com I hope this gives you some ideas. let me know if there is anything else can do to help you.

Zorena K Thursday, March 25, 2004
@ 5:07 AM
Opening our hearts to God and Each Other
Thank you all for gathering and supporting a RIGHT CAUSE. One that cannot be put off, one that cannot go unspoken. May YAHWEH continue to Bless you All- with His Immediate and Permanent Comfort, His Boundless Compassion, His Unbeattable Protection and ALL you NEED. NOW. :D AMEN! zkd

M W Saturday, March 27, 2004
@ 8:41 AM
Unity at what cost?
The Watchtower condones abuse to anyone who challenges them or disagree's with them. Interesting article in Toronto's Globe and Mail on the religions shunning policy. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/ L AC/20040325/FACTS25/TPComment/Features

AK Tuesday, March 30, 2004
@ 11:16 AM
From the Elder's Handbook
I quote directly from the elder's handbook "Pay attention". Anyone who has seen the pain and suffering incurred among Jehovah's witnesses abuse victims knows that local elders have not read or do not care about the directives within his own guidebook. Obviously the Society itself does not follow it's own counsel here. Here is the quote and location. [Governing Body member that is charged with reading all this apostate propoganda - here is some of your own to read.] Victims of sexual abuse need to be treated with extreme thoughtfulness and kindness. Elders should always do what they reasonably can to protect children from further abuse; follow the Society's directives on such matters. (g85 1/22 p. 8) Pay Attention...to All the Flock - Unit 5(a)Page 93 Par. 11

leahbatrena Tuesday, March 30, 2004
@ 3:31 PM
happy to be free
I was a Jw for 25 years and have never been happier to leave such an organization in my life. write more later.

T.J.B. Tuesday, March 30, 2004
@ 5:58 PM
Glad To See Silentlambs Back
Glad to see your website back up, that the caucas got great coverage in the papers and many other good things have happened. Bill, Raven told you the truth.

MA Wednesday, March 31, 2004
@ 7:29 AM
Another JW nightmare
I just got off the phone from a mate, who had been in touch with a Dfed JW (he knew her from when they where both JW's) that had been abused as by her JW father (I am not sure but I believe he may be still a JW). She and her 2 children had been living with an abusive man (no support group because she was Dfed). They broke up about a month ago and he came back a week later and beat her up. My friend supported her with calling the cops and the boyfriend was arrested (this was not the first time). One week ago they all vanished without trace. My friend popped in to see them last night and the place is in exactly the same state as when he was around there a week ago (the dog with no water etc). He called the cops and they are treating it as extremely suspicious. The cops where surprised that she had no one else but my mate and one other couple who lived out of town that knew her. The police will be looking into their bank accounts this evening to hopefully find out where they are. I don't know all the details of this case but my friend truly fears the outcome. The question you have to ask is; what is a woman with 2 children supposedly brought up in a 'Christian' household and having been molested as a child left to rot by herself? I'm sure any JW reading this will be thinking yes but this happened 'after' she was Dfed. My simple answer is you f@#$%^&* b!@#@$%#.

Ilidio Wednesday, March 31, 2004
@ 10:36 AM
Silent treatment
Went to a restaurant this past Friday with my wife and an older couple that by the way is my ex boss and guess who was there? My elder friend Clarence, went to him and said "Hello Clarence" the guy was so embarrassed that he didn't even move. Call me a bad boy if you must but I have a kick out of it. I had this guy in my house for dinner, my wife and I babysitted his children many times. I must confessed I was sorry for him. If he had enough space he would have crawled into his glass of wine. Before I left I said to him. Its amazing that after wasting so much time trying to be a Christian you haven't figured out that religion is based on 2 things, LOVE and FORGIVNESS With that I left. He was so embarrassed that he soon picked up his check and left without finishing his meal. I had made the statement loud enough so that everyone could hear and believe me I live in a small Island 56000 people where everyone knows everyone else. I am a bad boy, what can I say.

Brother John Wednesday, March 31, 2004
@ 2:00 PM
My story
I'm a survivor of abuse at the hands of a former elder and 1 of his sons when I was 12-14. My congregation handled the situations beautifully. Although there were no witnesses, when my parents and I told the elder body was had happened, we were encouraged to press charges and others came forward to support us. The elder was deleted, disfellowshipped, and is currently awaiting trial. His son was never baptized and is also charged but my plea bargain to avoid serving time. I just wanted others to know that there are some bodies of elders who do the right thing and not victimize the survivors of abuse again. ----- ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------silentlambs reply-Great to hear our message is getting through and elders are handling abuse properly. Please share the name of this convicted child molester so we can protect the rest of the brothers and sisters.

NN Thursday, April 1, 2004
@ 5:34 AM
To
First of course there are courageous and good people in the WT organization, but the fact that a person, like this elder is df is not the end of the story these people tend to be reinstated fairly soon again. But if your story is true, (to me you sound a bit to old to fit into your own "story", since at the time when it happened you were 12-14, and the elder is still awaiting jail, could you please explain) it doesn't change anything since what is happening in the congregations is a question of who is in charge; If the abuser is a friend of the "rulers" no way he/she is going to be df, but if the ruling elders want to get rid of the abuser of course he/she will be df. The most interesting scenario is if all this happens during a power struggle - I know because I've seen it happen - then it all becomes a sheere parody of christian religion.

Honey Thursday, April 1, 2004
@ 3:29 PM
claims by teenagers
Last year a friend of mine was accused by a 14 year old foster child of exposing her breasts and private parts in an attempt to seduce her. This 14yo was challenged by my friend to go to the police with her claims, but she did not. Instead, after she moved out, kept making abusive phone calls and even came to my friend's home threatening her. She was drunk and on drugs. My friend had to call the police and they advised her to take out a restraining order. Do you think that such claims by older kids can be believed?-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-in a word YES-the situation you describe is out of the ordinary and should be dealt with accordingly as it was.

Jacob Thursday, April 1, 2004
@ 3:47 PM
to NN
Re Bro John's case. He is probably 15 - the courts are often so busy that it can take more than a year for a suspect to face trial. He would be in custody awaiting trial.

NN Friday, April 2, 2004
@ 6:21 AM
to Jacob and John
Well, to me John's posting felt like coming from an adult, not a teenager....but of course I can be mistaken. I hope John could expand a bit more on his story.

bro john Friday, April 2, 2004
@ 9:26 AM
for nn
I'm 17 now. It took a lot of time before I came forward because I was sure no one would believe it. Really it was not even much of my choice to come forward because someone I confided in betrayed me. Plus, I am dealing with other stuff and it was all just too much at one time. The last few years have been pretty much awful for me and my family. And I still have to be careful what I say because I could further mess up everything.------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-pleae email us at info@silentlambs.org we might be able to help.

MDB Saturday, April 3, 2004
@ 11:33 AM
also an x-JW
I have just come across this web site and throw out my condolences to all those abused through this organization. I was born into this religion and was d-fd when I was around 17 by a bunch of elders that attempted to intimidate and scare the life out me, not to mention inform me that my unborn child would die if I didn't begin following their rules. Needless to say I did not heed their warnings and my child is now 20 and beautiful! I find that being raised this way has left emotional scars that will NEVER heal. Our family has been torn apart by this religion. Some of my family who remain in this religion (if you can call it that)will not speak to me, or even acknowledge me. This is real Christian behavior, right? My own mother was bothered by me hugging her. If treating your own family members in this horrible manner is following the Bible, then I am the Easter bunny. My only wish is that others in my situation can find peace and solace in a new life free from this religious conflict and that God will rescue them and enter their hearts with the true meaning of the word 'faith' We are all God's children and he hears our prayers too even if the JW's have deserted us. They will have to answer to him too.

AK Saturday, April 3, 2004
@ 3:02 PM
Why can't they make good rules to deal with abuse?
I have seen the WT PR department repeatedly state that it is impossible to deal with the matter of abuse as suggested by the SL organization and others. Their reason is that the Bible must be adhered to in the matter of discipline. WHAT? I have just read parts of the Elder's Manual entitled "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock". This manual is designed to deal with all sorts of discipline issues by the body of elders and committees. It is 150 pages of mostly man-made rules (35000 words). I have seen hundreds of rules in it's pages that are just arbitrary and in some cases entirely unscripural in nature. Yet, the GB insists that it's elders use this guide to direct the flock. They have NO PROBLEM making up rules where it suits their interests in doing so. Why cannot the simple rules that SL suggests to deal with child-rapist not be adopted? In a word, arrogance! They did not come up with the idea, announce that it was revealed as 'new light' by the Holy Spirit, produce talks, articles, and publications to be released and drooled over by the JW public! The simple fact is that - like the son's of Eli, they feel cloaked in God's spirit, and will not listen to good advise until many like myself have just said "enough of you fools in ignorance of God". Jehovah had to reject an entire nation due to the things that 'men of God' were doing in and around his Holy Temple. Perhaps he never selected IBSA and later Jehovah's witnesses at all - that remains to be revealed. But if He did, He can also reject them for uncleaness as he did the Israelite Nation. "LET HIM THAT THINKS HE IS STANDING, BEWARE THAT HE DOES NOT FALL". 1 Corinthians 10:12. Now there's a scriptural rule that will hold up!!

JAS Saturday, April 3, 2004
@ 4:37 PM
Catholic prays for you
As a Catholic, I can understand what the victims of abuse have suffered from their church. Please accept the prayers of a Catholic for all those abused in the name of God. You are very couragous to come forth. God Bless.

Honey Saturday, April 3, 2004
@ 11:44 PM
Michael Jackson
In a recent TV interview Michael jackson's mother who is a practising Jehovah's witness stated clearly that NONE of her children have accepted the faith she brought them up with. This would mean that none of them were ever baptised. Her husband also in the same TV program celebrated a birthday party at Michael's ranch. When it comes to employment - my husband works for a man who was df many years ago. As that WT article states, it is appropriate to discuss business matters with an employer but not spiritual matters or socializing outside of work. If this lawyer is a JW as you claim then he has every right to take on anyone as a client. he does not have to either socialise or fellowship with his client but discuss only business matters, in this instance, the case against Michael who by the way should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Families are a different ball park than with just anyone being df.. A recent KM pointed out that just as a wife or husband stays with a df spouse, caring for aged parents ( honor your father and mother) overrides any question of cutting off parents completely. If they are infirm you may even have to take them in and care for them on a daily basis. Their being df does not change that COMMANDMENT. ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Jackson family has at least three members that are baptized JW's. Firpo is not a lawyer but is of the anointed. Read your 2002 August KM no you are not allowed to talk to df relatives unless it is an emergency as quoted in the article. Live by your teachings and quite fabricating loopholes to excuse violation of doctrine.

Traci H Sunday, April 4, 2004
@ 11:11 AM
It Happened To Me!!!!
I read your artical printed in the Tuscalosa News and I had to respond.This also happened to me and I was told by the "PERVERT" and his wife, along with the Elders that it was being taken care of and I was not even aloud to tell my Mother or the "PERVERT and his wife would "hurt me & my family"! I was about 8 or 9 yrs old when this happened. When I was about 25yrs old I told my Mother and she showed no expression or said anything else about it.On the other hand, my Father is not A JW and if he found out I know what he would do .

A.T. Sunday, April 4, 2004
@ 1:09 PM

I feel so sorry for them and they need to be in jail

js Sunday, April 4, 2004
@ 1:59 PM
happier now
I am a former Jehovah's witness, now a Southern Baptist. Much happier now. Glad to see this website (and "organization") exists. God bless!

Susan S Sunday, April 4, 2004
@ 5:22 PM
Abuse
It is bad enough to be violated by someone you love and trust, But even worse when you turn to the elders who are suppose to be spiritual guides and they also violate you by covering over what has taken place to protect the one who has violated you.It's like going to the Police for protection from the person that just raped you and being raped by them and then sent on your way ordered not to mention this to anyone.I was told by the Elders to say nothing of the abuse that had taken place, instead guilt was laid upon me by saying that my revealing the truth would bring reproach against Jehovah God.What about the victimizer? Didn't he bring reproach against God? How warped . The worst part is I hung onto that warped counsel for 31 years, at great cost to a precious child. I applaud the Brother who was courages enough to do the right thing and start this website. I will pray for all the victims and those who are seeking to support them by setting matters straight. I am finally free, Yet I struggle as I watch the devastating effect that my children still carry. I am grateful because I will not be silenced anymore .

www.internetnewsdaily.com Monday, April 5, 2004
@ 1:21 AM
your site is informative
decent site

NN Monday, April 5, 2004
@ 6:28 AM
To John
Thanks, now I understand, and you are very courageous!!! I have one advice to you: Get out, but get out on your own terms and in your own time. It is of no use or good for you - or anyone - to stay on in this corrupt sect. And if "they", i.e. the elders, have realised that you are a "problem" to them they will not stop harrassing you - to get rid of you. They have very subtle ways of shunning/isolating people, and no one even dares to not do as they are told when told - secretly - to stop having any social contact with "a problematic person". I know, cause this was what happened to me. For years I was exposed to this "shunning" without even understanding it, I just thought that I was an unpleasant person. It was pretty horrible and it almost drove me to suicide. Then I realised I had to do something about it, so I gradually started to build a life outside the organisation. It took me some years, but as it turned out it was not a moment to soon cause then this "Anders" affair happened (in Sweden) and since I happen to have a conscience the so called "advertisement" made it totaly impossible to continue support this group. So I left.

Iris Monday, April 5, 2004
@ 9:04 PM
Dateline
Some months ago I talked with a lady who was a survivor of sex abuse in the Seventh-Day Adventists. She remarked how she and her friends responded after viewing the Dateline program on sex abuse within Jehovh's Witnesses.It was, "Oh my God, they're just like us."

the mole Monday, April 5, 2004
@ 10:03 PM
my memorial
i was invited to attend but is it really the truth they tell us. to attend? is it condoning and giving in what i seen and know for fact to show up. i have been scorned and ridiculed for my simple questions of things that are being covered up. my sister invited me to her house and to her memorial but she was the first one to criticize me when i raised questions of nbc and dateline of the things of pediphilia and rape of children. so many recent talks of hating those looking for evil the org has caused many to shrink back in their ignorance that to warn the stiff neck people may be of little. maybe this why God had the jews wander the desert for so long, to weed out the true heretics of gods word. i will not attend and my children wont either. to attend would mean all that i fought for was in vain. i will read to my children word for word without the pollution of men modern thoughts of the bible. the bible was simple reading for simple laymen and so how much more lay than me.....the mole....

C. Stire Tuesday, April 6, 2004
@ 10:46 AM
Congratulations!
Congratulations; SILENT LAMBS staff and survivors on the success of your recent summit in Nashville. May God continue using you to support survivors of JW-sexual abuse! You will bring the current policy of Watchtower to it's knees! C. Stire Life After Watchtower Ministries Canada

NN Tuesday, April 6, 2004
@ 1:46 PM
To The Mole
Dear Mole, you are so very right, why attend the Memorial with people who basically don't like you. But there is another graver aspect. To attend the Memorial with the Witnesses would be the same as to say that one accepts the way they are acting towards abuse victims, wich I guess could be labelled crime by association in the eyes of God. By the way if you want an update on the abuse issue in Sweden, one elder - actually the same elder that asked me to hand in my resignation as a JW after I had told him that my conscience forbade me to accept their horrid "advertisement" towards Anders - told me that the organisation had "put it behind them and that the are now moving on". Well I can not imagine that God Jehovah has put behind him the terrific disfamation of his name that this led to. Which is why I wouldn't recommend anyone to celebrate anything with the JW:s.

Carol M Tuesday, April 6, 2004
@ 7:31 PM
Unacceptable
I am overwhelmed! I cannot believe what has been allowed to transpire in this religion. Why hasn't more been done to stop them? Not only are these people criminals, but they are insane. I am having a hard time getting my words out because i thought my sexual abuse case was unusual in the organization. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by foster parents whom the organization considered to be upstanding people. Due to years of abuse i was an emotional wreck. I ran away from them when i turned 17 and never went back. Thank God, that i was strong enough to keep my sanity and survive. I'm certain that it was because i received professional help. When they came knocking at my door two years ago i spilled the beans, i had had enough of there "higher than almity" attitude. Each and every day i make progress and are really starting to understand what they are really about. My sister also lived with us for about 5 years then returned to my biological mothers home. She was also abused and when she was older advised the elders about the situation, who did nothing. I am sitting here in shock! I had no idea it was a universal issue with JW's. My sister and i were just talking about writing a letter to the WBTS regarding out past and other issues. How ironic is it that a week later i come across the article in the Houston Chronicle. There are so many things i could say to the people. If you think about it! What do they do for the children? I can tell you NOTHING! They expect a small child to sit still for 2 hours and not say a word. The people making the decisions in this organization don't know anything about children. They don't teach the children on their level, so there is no true respect for the religion. I sat there so many Thursday's and Sunday's thinking about how sad my life was and what i was dealing with, that i rarely heard anything they were preaching. What do they really expect, if you don't listen to the children when they grow up they will turn away from you. Fear is the religion's only motivator. Do what they say, or face the consequenses. You are so brain-washed from the beginning that if that dosen't keep you from saying something, fear will. They think they have it all figued out. You haven't heard the last of me yet.

ilidio Tuesday, April 6, 2004
@ 9:42 PM
To: honey
Honey, I left the Jehovahs witnesses just about 2 years ago and have to deal with the shunning practice that that is well practiced by the JW which by the way doesnt affect me at all. I still speak to all the witnesses I see even thought they dont talk back me. I figure that religion is based on 2 things: LOVE and FORGIVNESS (certainly Jesus lived by it). If they cant show neither that does not say much about them, doest it? What I have a real problem with is an elder that works in an investment company that keeps calling me for me to invest with his company. Doesnt that sound a bit funny to you? You see if I invest with him he gets a percentage of my investment. So he is not supposed to talk to me at all, but businesses are ok? The things they do for the love of money! Perhaps they ought to change their names to Pharisees witnesses Clean your act and stop being an hypocrite.

Bonnie W Wednesday, April 7, 2004
@ 12:59 PM
married
I am married to a witness and I find some of their beliefs out to lunch as a victim of abuse myself if I would not have had my church to turn to I don't know what I would have done. my sympathy to all those who were abused by the witnesses and no where to turn may God be with you

Jacob Wednesday, April 7, 2004
@ 4:29 PM
harboring criminals?
At a recent JW assembly there was related an experience of a man who when about to be baptised informed the elders he had murdered to criminals 15 years before and had never been arrested or caught, as no one reported these men were missing and their bodies never found. The elders advised he turn himelf in, which he did, leading the police to the place where he had buried the bodies. He was subsequently tried and is still in prison and is using the chance to preach the good news to others prisoners. ----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-This appears to be a cover for the murder letter posted on this website. As stated in publications and the elders book criminal conduct before baptism is considered a non event and thus elders are advised to stay neutral as they are also advised regarding cases of child moelstation in non reporting states. It appears this is a fabraicated story by Jacob to counter public opinion about current and long standing WT policy. This highlights the fact that if anyone confesses to a serious crime committed before they learnt the truth of God's word they must turn themselves in. Of course a pedophile who was not genuinely wanting to do right would not even confess his previous crimes to the elders and they cant be held responsible for accepting him if they dont know his past.

Michelle L Wednesday, April 7, 2004
@ 4:39 PM
Comfort
I feel much better when I'm in relationship with The "CREATOR". We all have our good and bad memories but what do you really want to put your energy into? I'm not yet baptized and I have come a long way. I have been abuse as a young child and It does stay with you through out your life. People are effect by the affects in life but like I mentioned above I do feel much better in relation with JEHOVAH. It doesn't feel good to be in a negative atmosphere. I hate it. People will always try to bring you down to prove something that has eventual bad outcome. Know what I mean. I hold nothing back. bk, NY

Jacob Thursday, April 8, 2004
@ 2:36 AM
Amarillo case
News just in on this case- the WTBTS was excluded from the list if defendants while the local congregations ( elders) remained as defendants and the matter will go to trial. Amarillo Globe News 4/4/04 -------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-the decision is on appeal but either way there will be a trial.

MA Thursday, April 8, 2004
@ 4:37 AM
to ilidio
I think you are better than me cuz while you are not affected by the shunning practice (e.g. you walked up to some JW in a restrant which I might add cuzzed me to fall off my chair laughing) I have to think up new and imaginitive ways to talk talk to my old jw chums. Your posts have givin me new inspiration! :-)

JOHN HODGE Thursday, April 8, 2004
@ 8:56 PM
THE CHILDFIND FOUNDATION OF ST.LOUIS.MO.63129
http://tinyurl.com/qb9f THANK-YOU. JOHN HODGE. PRESIDENT. CHILDFIND FOUNDATION. ST.LOUIS.MO.63129

NN Friday, April 9, 2004
@ 4:24 AM
practises in the JW org
When one considers the doings of the JW org it is easy to get fooled by their "everyone is doing the same thing/believing in the same thing" doctrine. But this is an illusion, there are an immense lot of "understandings", on all levels and therefore their way of doing things varies a lot from place and time. But wether a way of acting is really appreciated this organization is always happy to be able to use it when it fits their purpose, as like this story of a murderer. If, of course it wasn't false. To use lies - also called theocratical cunning and a part of the so called theocratical warfare - to advance their "cause" is no problems for the organisation today.

SCoS Friday, April 9, 2004
@ 8:03 AM
too late for some but well done
When my sister in law aged 15 finally came forward and bravely outed her non-witness father for abusing her for years, it tore the family apart. Her mother a devout witness, wanted to brush the whole matter under the carpet and told my sister in law to move out. I insisted to her mother that she must go to the police and if she did not I would. The whole matter was dealt with in a very messy manner by the local elders, who expressed their upset at the police being involved because of the bad press it would bring in the local community. My sister in law left home age 15 at the directive of the elders and moved from pillar to post, sleeping on peoples (non witnesses) living room floors etc. The elders rallied round her mother while the father was in prison but abandoned my sister in law and the upshot was, my sister in law was blamed for seducing him (!!???) and was interrogated at judicial committee meetings to that effect. She was dissassociated (she was unbaptized) by the elders over some minor issue after she fell away (having been banished from her home and the area) as the whole thing caused so much upset in the congregation, it seemed better to 'make it go away'. She was so seriously disturbed by everything, she needed help and compassion, not the fear and shunning. Years later, my sister in law is a drug addict, alcoholic, is very promiscuous and has even protituted herself. She is incredibly mentally disturbed. Her mother ( who later admitted that she knew the abuse was taking place ever since the child was 3 - but was going to wait upon Jehovah to set things straight in the new system) is still a respected member of the congregation. Her abusive non beliving husband is spoken highly of as he attends memorials yearly and has over the years had intermittent bible studies (in which young girls - daughters of the study conducters were allowed to associate freely with him etc.) The mother chose to stay with this man (even though scripturally she has had opportunity many times over to divorce him) and my sister in law has looked on all these years not only as a victim but as an outcast and labled as the evildooer. I hope thanks to this campaign, others will not suffer the way she has and still is.

ilidio Friday, April 9, 2004
@ 8:14 AM
To: MA and all the EX JW's
To: MA Many people say that they wasted many years in the Jw. I can not say that for myself. Going in field service for near 15 years made me a very bold person and an excellent speaker so not all was lost. I can say that they made me, so they have to put up with me now. I will speak to every single witness I know. A couple months ago I was in an elevator filled with people I saw a woman that was my wife's best friend, I said to her "hello Joanna long time no see you" of course she said nothing. So I said "just because your are a Jehovah's Witness you think you are better than the rest of us?" My friend, that was a witness to all the people present in the elevator. I accomplished more by saying that than a witness going field service for an entire year. Master up boldness and talk to all the witnesses you know. That will help you recover faster, much faster. The right thing to do if for us to continue courteous and be nice to all the people we know. That is what a God of love would want us to do. Always remember LOVE and FORGIVNESS.

geevee Saturday, April 10, 2004
@ 7:12 AM
hmmmmm...
Using your WT Library CD, type in the search engine "disfellowship" and see which WT articles turn up. Ask your self why doesn't the August 1st Wt of 1974 turn up in the search??? Also I would like to add...great work in the court case mentioned in the latest newsletter. I wonder if it is possible for Elders to get their own insurance before they cop anything like this?

V.M Saturday, April 10, 2004
@ 2:05 PM
JW
this is a bunch of b.s stop picking on j.w let them do what they plase!!!

DEC Sunday, April 11, 2004
@ 4:47 PM
May the truth be known
I recently learned of this web site and am pleased to see that the truth of what has been going on in the organization is coming to light. My daughter at age 12 (which was 28 yrs. ago) was one of many sexually abused victims in a Pa. cong. The elders kept sweeping it under the rug. When one of the mothers had had enough and pressed charges, she was dfs. The wts only seems interested in saving face and keeping up the charade of a worldwide loving brotherhood. The most innocent of all and most deserving of love and protection have been abandoned by the elders. I truly hope that this is the beginning of freedom for all those who have been forced to submit to a heartless heirachy.

na Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 8:49 AM
WT mtg
I will say this, you certainly have EVERYONE'S attention. During last Sunday's WT mtg, we dicussed the article about being deceived. One of the subheadings dealt with "Being Deceived by Apostates" and the place was going on and on about "silentlambs". I conduct the WT and after re- directing the group back to the article I made mention that,"for an alleged group of apostates, we sure know all about them." People are tuning in, and hopefully learning something along the way. Thanks for the info.

Kate Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 12:39 PM
Finally, I no longer feel alone!
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I was also sexually abused by elders from the Kingdom Hall from a very young age. I never told anyone. I thought that it was all my fault. I was told by these elders that if I told I would not live to see the paradise. Armageddon would come and God would kill me. I lived my life in great fear, believing that God was a hateful God and so ensued many suicide attempts. I thought that I was the only one in the world that this had happened to. I still believed that until last week, at age 28, when a friend of mine stumbled upon the silentlamb website while signing us up for the D.C. 5K walk. I spent the whole night at her house on the computer reading things off of the web site. I was shocked! There are thousands of people that this has happened to! I am so thankful for this site and I look forward to meeting some members at the 1st Annual Race to Stop The Silence in D.C.

Cherie Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 1:49 PM
Letting it out
I hated the meetings.1975 was coming.Armaggedon.Dont cough during the meeting.Head straight for the car when meeting was over,dont stop to talk to anyone,no visiting whith any body.No answering during meeting.No associating. Up at 6:00 every morning to study the WT and writting out the answers to all the questions(in perfect handwritting) then you can eat.Forgot to take lunch w/ you to school to bad no dinner either. Out in service door to door having to wait for 6 or more hours while they went door to door to door.It gets hot in Southern Ca!!!One time ,I was about 9 maybe was allowed to go to the door and had to go to the bathroom sooooooooo bad but no you have to wait.I PEED right there on the householders front step. Then there was the other abuse.My Dad molested me for quite a few years.When I was "blooming" it started I think (ive blocked out so much) I know that the one thing that finaly broke me was at 14 years old ,I took 1 piece of Sees candy from my stepmoms stash and lied about it(she counted it I guess)Well I did confess and was stripped down and literally laid out on the livingroom floor and whipped with a branch of a bush nearly 100 times.There were horrible blood marks on me at PE time at school the next day.My only girlfriend had had enough and she tricked me into going to the Principals office.She reported it.Oh man the cops came and asked a million questions.I was soo scared to go home I ran away that day.After about 5 hours I called the house and said to my stepmom Im not comming home until Daddy tells what hes been doing to me.I was in control I thought.Wel he told her I guess cause he was crying when the overseer and his wife pick me up and took me home. He was df'd almost imediatly and when he went to court he pleaded guilty and got 3 years probation and had to go through counseling.I was never given any counceling or even a kind word.That sucked.No mom to hold me and tell me Id be safe.NOTHING.This could go on and on but the real clincher is he was reinstated later on and served as an elder for years.When there was an uproar about those serving as elders who had been convicted for 'abuse'stepping down from their post he resigned from elder position. I later found out that he had been sexually abused also by Both his JW parents.in the 40s.Well now here I am at 48 and still bear resentment but have sought my own counceling and have moved on.Still cant even walk into a KH without feeling like vomiting shaking and a whole bunch of other feelings. I serve our Lord in my every day doings.Its whats in your heart that counts and not one thing or person(s) cant take you from HIM. GOD THAT FELT GOOD!!!! Thanks for this site to tell all.He also is in the pediphile listing for Poway california and his name is Dee Lafoon.

M.A.N. Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 4:08 PM
To V.M.
I've made errors in the past due to misreading comments, so I want to be sure before I say anything. There is a comment that appears to be from v.m. and says "JW". It is dated Sat., April 10th. Exactly what are you trying to say? I quote "this is a bunch of b.s stop picking on j.w let them do what they plase!!!". What is a bunch of b.s.? This site? The complaints from victims? Let who "do what they please"? (By the way, learn how to spell.) Who is "j.w."? Does this stand for Jehovah's Witnesses or do you mean someone on the guestbook who uses "j.w." for their initials? Why don't you clarify your position so people can answer you?

Pam Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 4:35 PM
to Cherie
Ive been to meetings and door to door since I was 7 years old and never had the experiences you describe.

NN Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 4:54 PM
Love to Cherie!!
Your horrible story is so typical for this kind of partiarcal-hieracal organisation that has THE MAN and his needs - not God - as it's focus point. What is obvious is that this organisation ignores the fact that the Bible innumerable times states that an inevitable part of true worship is to take care of the "small", that is children and other persons that can't protect themselves. This proves beyond all doubt that this is "bad religion".

Corinne Monday, April 12, 2004
@ 11:51 PM
will i be silenced?
Satan, through this seemingly heroic site, is certainly doing a good job of twisting the truth. Wittingly, or unwittingly many more will try to help him like this site and its supporters. It's really sad to see those who have lost faith in Jehovah's promises for a paradise filled with righteous ones turn to slandering His earthly organization. Jesus' message of love and forgiveness was for repentant sinners (the ones who show their repentance by their actions, not just words), not for those who take advantage of Jehovah's Witness policies to prey on innocent followers, especially the very young. To label the whole organization as secretive for the sake of being permissive towards such shameful and morally bankrupt behavior is a perversion of the truth. Boasting about how you left your congregation, then regaling others with ways you have spoken to a former JW friend who misses you with all their heart.. where is YOUR love? If you left your congregation to seek the Truth, why aren't you behaving like the True Christian we should all be striving to become? Would a follower of Jesus' teachings act so haughtily towards their fellow believers? If I knew one of the brothers or sisters was a sexual predator, I would keep a close eye on them in the congregation. How would I do that if I was no longer in the congregation!? Is it harmfully gossipping about that person if it is a fact? I thought harmful gossip was spreading untruths. If you know you were molested &/or if you knew someone had been molested, it is unreasonable and inconceivable to me that the elders would not believe you. How can you run away and abandon the very children you say you are trying to protect? Isn't such behavior more hypocritical? I have thought many times about leaving my congregation. Each time, the last question I asked myself was, "Am I being stumbled by the people or by the principle?" False followers of Jehovah God and His son, Jesus Christ, will be cut off. There are no ifs ands or buts. True followers are proven by their actions and their love for one another. Aren't we trying to support Jehovah and His visible earthly organization? Don't you want to make it change while remaining close to it and not trying to break it apart? The thing I liked about JWs was that, unlike Christendom and its adherents, when the organization was shown something was wrong, it changed. Please pray for discernment and if you are who I think you are (I guess, even if you aren't X p, hehe) I wanted to hug you and I really miss you, but I really think you are more needed in our congregation than out of it. Be my fellow spiritual foodaholic again (remember Brother Kim's talk? the sister salad? u da skinny lettuce gal and I da jolly tomato~) Have faith in Jehovah's qualities and in His promises (what was that about having a hard time finding Mr. Perfect in paradise bc they'll ALL be perfect? ^,~*) Come back. I love you. ------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-We will put it up to see if anyone else can figure out what is being said here.

DEC Tuesday, April 13, 2004
@ 9:58 AM
question ?
With all the sexual abuse that has gone on in the congregations for many decades and the thousands who are disfellowshipped each year for immorality, drug abuse and various other sins......when exactly is the organization clean?

AK Tuesday, April 13, 2004
@ 1:53 PM
To na
First of all, I am surprised to see the comments of a prominent elder,i.e.; Watchtower Study Conductor here. I am glad to see that some elders have the guts to at least see what is going on and give some tacit support by their comments on this site. I am no longer serving in any capacity within the org, in fact have left over conscience. I could not stand in front of a KH audience and have any sense of personal dignity, with the atrocities that have been done in the name of God. I offer a call to all the closet lovers of truth, especially elders. STAND UP AND BE COUNTED! Literally! April is abuse awareness month - why not choose your opportunity (a talk, Wt conducting, meeting for field service, ect.), the more public the better. Get up there and throw out the Societal script that you have been reading from for your entire life, denounce the wickedness that is being covered up, as well as the doctrinal errors that have enslaved many of us for decades until we found out the truth of matters. Then publicly step aside as an elder and let them do thier worse. I think that Jesus or Paul would have done just that! Will You imitate that sort of love for the children? Trust me, you will make true friends for life even after they DF you. Do you have the guts to really stand up for principles? Most do not!

NN Tuesday, April 13, 2004
@ 3:02 PM
To Pam & Corinne
Pam, just because it didn't happen to you doesn't say it cannot happen - or is it? If so you are using the same logic as Corinne. So very nice and simple for you, and for me since I do not have to pity you, when you finally realise that you have been living a lie. Once and for all, The Watchtower does not have copyright on God Jehova or the Bible, and it is ceartanly not an organisation devoted to the Truth. And was it wrong for me to leave? well I told them from the very start, and I have told both witnesses and others several times since then, that if I ever realised that this was not the truth - I would leave. When the Watchtower in Sweden made their stand in the abuse question by harassing a young (and allegedly abused) man, that still was a member, in the press by a so called advertise - where they quoted the abusers words as The Truth - my conscience did not allow me to stay on. I gave them a year to see what happened, but the only thing I saw was that this sect went further and further from the truth in to their own world with it's own rules. And this I could not abide sinc my standards remain the same, and I am not ashamed to say, fairly well tuned to the Bible.

Jacob Tuesday, April 13, 2004
@ 4:54 PM
to DEC
There are 200,000 JW's in the US. sl claims of about 23,000 on the Child Protection register have not been confirmed and if true would exceed even the normal population statistics of 0.05%. So I have to question those stats. It is unlikely that more than 1/100 JW's are on the pedophile register!---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-These apostates are always trying to give misinformation! There are 1,000,000 JW's in the USA and the database covers around 3,000,000 of the JW membership so that is about one for every three congregations.

the mole Tuesday, April 13, 2004
@ 6:34 PM
the real truth
no matter what truth is said once a person seen but one color and then blinded will always remember that color even though that cant see anymore, the same is true for those indoctrinated into the org. they found one grain of truth and refuse to see what else goes on within their halls and within the org. if the org be the truth then it should be able to stand on its own and any gossip or lies would be repelled without any effort but as we all know this is not the case with the org. its multitude of lawers and false articles and baseless predictions have defamed gods name. one only have to read an old magizine to see that christ teachings keep changing with new light making jesus' words meaningless. for christ and god are perfect and their word is perfect, so to say too thousand of believers they have new light undermines the very being who is perfect. is the org a believer or predictor of gods truth? if anyone does what is bad and the victim goes to the police then is subjected to disfellowshipping for doing so, shakes the very foundation of the org and proves they are lacking gods truth. as i have seen in my own hall, the actions of the elders and deeds of many within, the spirtuality we need is not in the kingdom hall. it is in our hearts god will seek out not a membership in a man made org. to truly be christian, christ words come first not policies or mundane rules created by would be pharasee's......the mole...

Jacob Tuesday, April 13, 2004
@ 11:11 PM
my mistake
You are correct - there are over 1,000,000 JW's in the US - but that still makes the figure of 23,000 pedophiles disproportionate to the general population. Does your 3,000,000 include only all Western countries? Or what? It is still grossly disproportionate to the general population stats of 0.05% as it works out to be 1/130. If as you stated recently the register now numbers is now 30,000 then that is 1% or 1/100. Not very likely given the general population statistics. Im inclined to agree with the official statement from the WT PR that the real figure is much less than what you claim. Add to that the fact that there are far more women JW's than there are men and the majority of pedophiles are men, then your stats are an obvious exaggeration. ------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-We are happy to see you correct yourself on the number of JW's on the USA and hope you can eventually correct your reasoning on the coverup of the database of pedophiles within the organization. We believe our numbers are now conservative since all the documentaries have aired since that number was reported. If WT wants to come clean then simply give the actual number for that would certainly set the record straight regarding the truth of these matters. As long as they continue to hide the numbers we have to believe it is far more than we indicate. By the way when questioned by the BBC the PR stated the actual number was not "meaningful" to give. We have to wonder who is was not "meaningful" for?

KL Wednesday, April 14, 2004
@ 1:13 AM
I'm baaaaaa-aaaaack!
Hey y'all. I really missed all this trash talk. How uplifting!!! :):) In regards to the man who said that his meeting went on and on about the silentlambs during the "apostate" watchtower study, I want to say that I too commented at my meeting about this, saying that "I can personally attest that even Elders can be apostates, molesting children, and that if anyone knows of any such crime, they should report it immediately, and there is a great website, silentlambs.com, that can really help." I was expecting a great backlash, but as of yet have gotten none. The calm before the storm???? IMPORTANT - My case is moving forward and as of yet I have not heard of any other victims. It will be interesting to see if my judge follows suit and removes the WTBS as defendants. I will keep you updated. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU OR ANYONE YOU KNOW HAS ALSO BEEN MOLESTED BY THIS MAN - A.W. "Red" HARRIMAN OF THE COLFAX, CA, USA CONGREGATION. Thanks.

DEC Wednesday, April 14, 2004
@ 8:24 AM
to Jacob
My question to you again is: WHEN exactly is the organization clean?

KH Wednesday, April 14, 2004
@ 10:51 AM
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
I AM NOT JEHOVAH WITNESS AND WILL NEVER BE! BUT, I HAVE MARRIED A MAN WHO'S ENTIRE FAMILY IS IN THIS STRANGE RELIGION. THERE HAS BEEN SEXUAL ABUSE IN HIS FAMILY WITH HIS MOTHER, SISTERS AND AUNTS. I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW MUCH FAMILY VALUES ARE LACKING WITH THESE PEOPLE I MEAN THEY HAVE NONE! MY HUSBAND THANK-GOD HAS NOTHING MORE TO DO WITH THIS RELIGION FOR HE WAS FORCED TO GO DOOR TO DOOR AS YOUNG BOY. HE ALSO CANNOT STAND THE WAY THIS RELIGION PROTECTS SEXUAL PREDATORS. KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING AND LETS BRING THIS BOGUS RELIGION DOWN ON IT'S KNEES!

b Wednesday, April 14, 2004
@ 4:12 PM
? Mostly Re TX Elder-Pedophile Larry Kelley
A quick question for Bill Bowen. I believe some years ago this same elder Larry Kelley was also involved in a separate trial in which he admitted the national organization for Jehovah's Witnesses wanted things done "in-house," meaning not told to the police. At that time the trial involved incest between a brother and his sister. The sister wanted monetary compensation for her having had to pay for visits to therapists after her brother kept raping her and the elders, although informed, told her to shut up and not tell the police. Now in reading a couple articles about Kelley, I'm wondering if this isn't still another lawsuit with still another victim involving this same Texas JW elder. One article said he had attracted children in the hall, including Amy B., via puppets, to more easily get to and molest them. Tim Gardner of Richmond, Missouri, was a ministerial servant who was convicted for molesting a kid outside his kingdom hall although there well may have been scores of other victims including kingdom hall attenders' children, and Gardner used a similar modus operandi. Namely, he drew kids to himself by dressing up and acting as a pantomime clown. So I'm noting the pedophiles' similar methods, and also asking about Kelley. I've had friends in the vicinity of both the Texas and Richmond, MO halls, but they have moved away. I no longer want anything to do with the congregations as they hide the perverts and send them preaching to one door then another all over the world, which is insanity. But my interest in the situation remains, so I wonder if you can respond about Kelley? ----- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-we are not familiar with the earlier trial so we cannot comment. YOu might contact Kim Norris for further information.

ilidio Thursday, April 15, 2004
@ 9:06 PM
To: Corinne
To: Corinne Satan through the organization is doing a much greater job, no question about it. He has got all of you so blinded that you work for him thinking you are doing Gods work, and just like you said wittingly or unwittingly many more will try to help Satan as they continue joining the org. The message you carry is not of LOVE and FORGIVNESS, in fact you carry a message (be a JW or be destroyed) of doom. Yes, the org. is very secretive, if you dont believe me go to a public library and do a search of the following: (REGISTRATION SEGMENT NO.33-96974, CONTRACT# N00014-01-M0208, NAVY CONTRACT#s N41756-02-M-2026 & N41756-02-M-2037) see what you find out than let us talk about secrecy, till than please dont parrot what you hear at the kingdom hall. If you do that, well it just makes you a parrot! God gave you a brain and you are supposed to use at least 12% of it. If you have the truth what are you doing on this site? Apparently you have doubts yourself! You keep referring to Jesus through out your message. Once I hear that name 2 things come to mind: LOVE AND FOROGIVNESS. Does the org . show any of the two????? To illustrate with a REAL story: A young woman at the age of 16 got pregnant. She was promptly disfellowshipped, the father had died, the mother and the rest of the family as well as the cong. would not talk to her or even help her in her crisis. Is this the love and forgiveness you are talking about?? To me this was like finding a person drowning in the deep sea and telling the person, JUST SWIM TO THE SHORE, ONCE YOU GET HERE WE WILL GIVE YOU A HAND. Can you just imagine how many acts of love and kindness like this one have been performed by the org??? You ought to be ashamed of yourself to come here parroting the same blah blah blah blah . I am not one of those truck drivers, window washers, or street sweepers that at night become counselors of the congregation. Please do not insult my intelligence or the intelligence of others that come to this site for that matter. Once I felt the same way you do and kept defending the org as Gods representative on earth, when calamity struck my family I went to the elders with other witnesses to have the matter resolved, would you like to know what happened? The person cried a good tune and was promptly forgiven. The victim was told to keep quiet or be disfellowshipped as this would bring reproach on Jehovahs name. Isnt this another example of YOUR love and forgiveness? You also mention that we should support Jehovah and his visible earthly org. What are the signs of this visibility? A congregation that worldwide harbors child molesters? Do yourself a favor by sending all the watchtower magazines to Iraq as WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION and read the bible more. That is the only book that can give you the knowledge to everlasting life.. I could go but your 5 minutes are up.

Tabu Friday, April 16, 2004
@ 6:12 PM
Keep your eyes on the prize
I learned the hard way, religion has nothing to do with God. Religion is mans way of hurting and abusing one another. I have yet to go to any church that will announce that any member new or old is a pedophile or rapist. All religions and relgious leaders are guilty of the crime of sacraficing the congregation of lambs in the name of not shaming God. It has been my experience that God can take care of himself, he never needed us to make him look good. He told us to love thy brother, that doesn't mean sacrafice our children. I know Jehovah is watching and he is not going to forget, the consequences still reap upon those who abuse the innocent even if they are forgiven. Life is a circle and death is not the end. Jehovahs justice will precail, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it won't happen. Keep the love ask for support and run for your lives. Keep it real, if it feels wrong then it is. You don't need any religion or family to care for you when you have God. Rememer be as innocent as a dove but as cautious as a serpent. You have to be cautious because you are dealing with things that are less than animals, they are a disease and should be wiped off the face of the earth, have faith this is not the end only the beginning. Sorry for your pain and your loss. Just know that there is a stranger out in the world that loves you no matter how scared or scarred you are. ME.!!! Love you all always.

Monday, April 19, 2004
@ 4:18 PM

The Watchower is NOT Gods organization on earth. It is a high control group with the very few directing the lives of the multitudes. You will not change it because it is built on a foundation of pride and arrogance. The few at the top don't like to be told to change. As the Watchtower printed 3/1/1979,pg.24: "Outside the true Christian congregation what alternative organization is there? Only Satan's organization..." Do you really think these are people who are open to examine their actions?

NN Tuesday, April 20, 2004
@ 4:03 PM
Against the constitution?
What I would like to know if it would be possible to get the Watchtowér org convicted because of that it forbidds it's members to have anything to do with former witnesses, if you associate you will be df. This policy gives the leaders a huge powers, partly because of the treath of becoming ostracised and partly because of that the knowledge of the df's immediately becomes illegal and impossible to use for members. is it really possible for an organisation to have such laws in the United States?

Ruzell R Wednesday, April 21, 2004
@ 5:10 AM
Good Home
You have done an exceptional job in creating and designing this website

SLF Wednesday, April 21, 2004
@ 4:14 PM
Victims
On behalf of PA Governor Edward G. Rendell, Budget Secretary Michael J. Masch today presented a proclamation during the annual observance of Holocaust Memorial Day sponsored by the Pennsylvania Jewish Coalition. Secretary Masch shared the program with Holocaust survivors, their family members, rabbis and Giora Becher, Consul General of Israel. Pursuant to an Act of Congress on October 7, 1980, the United States Holocaust Memorial Council designated the Days of Remembrance of the victims of the Holocaust, including the International Day of Remembrance known as Yom Hashoah, to remember the victims of the Holocaust as well as to reflect on the need for respect of all of humanity. "As painful as the memories of the Holocaust are for survivors and as difficult as it is for others to comprehend the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime, we are also inspired by the courage and perseverance of the survivors," Secretary Masch said. "The men, women and children that survived the Holocaust serve as an eternal inspiration and a beacon of hope for all of humanity. Generations will be preserved as a result of their survival."

M.A.N. Wednesday, April 21, 2004
@ 4:44 PM
To NN
I already checked about the constitutional issue. The answer was that membership in a religion is a voluntary act and the government stated that religions have the right to determine what morals, rules, etc. they want to have. If they violate the laws of Caesar, of course, they will be taken care of by the law. For instance, Utah had a hard time when it wanted to become a state because the Mormons believed in a man's right to have multiple wives. The Mormons, the territory of Utah, and all citizens were told this practice was illegal and would be prosecuted. Utah finally became a state, but there still are a few die- hards in the news every so often who try to keep more than one wife. They always lose in court. The courts have always ruled that the Federal law is above any religious law. One religion tried to make smoking ganja, if that's the spelling, a part of their worship. I think this is a type of marijuana from Jamaica. They claimed the Bible said in Genesis "God gave them every sort of seed bearing herb and plant". So they thought the "herb" was scripturally proper. I remember the lawyer for the government telling them that poison ivy was also "given to man", but he didn't see anyone smoking that. I think the religion was called the Coptic Church. I'm a Psychology major and agree with you that damage is being done to people.

Pam Wednesday, April 21, 2004
@ 5:19 PM
to NN
You cannot be df for associationg with a df person. Counselled and advised, but not df. When it comes to family members, a 1974 WT states the elders leave that to the individual conscience. ANd the same applies to any accidental encounter with a df person. If you speak to the person with a view to enouraging him to come back, and not side with him if he opposes the truth, then that too is not " spiritual fellowship".This could happen in the workplace, for example. As for the Constitution - there are many all male groups that dont allow female members. While this may be dsicrimination, it is not against the constitution to bar people from membership.------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- sientlambs reply-typical ignorance of JW guidelines is displayed in these comments. Everyone that has been or is a JW knows you can be df for associating with a df person, this is a strictly enforced guidline that goes all the way back to 1980 when Ray Franz was df for eating with a disassociated person. Any family member that offers or exchanges spiritual instruction with a df relative can and will be df. This is a common knowledge fact to any active JW in the organization and it is beyond comprehension that anyone could be this misinformed. It leaves only one conclusion that this person is offering misinformation purposefully to mislead the readers of this guestbook. Future posts of this nature will be deleted.

Cherie' Thursday, April 22, 2004
@ 2:12 PM
Thank you NN

Thursday, April 22, 2004
@ 9:37 PM
Millstone Dedication this Sun. in NJ.
Recorder Newspapers December 4, 2003 MENDHAM - Jesus Christ's admonition that whoever harms a child should have a "heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea" is the basis for a monument to be placed at St. Joseph Church as the nation's first memorial to victims of sexual abuse by priests. The idea for placing the 400-pound stone at the Main Street church came as 40 sexual abuse survivors and their families mourned the death last month of their Mendham friend, James T. Kelly. Kelly, 37, died on Sunday, Oct. 12 after walking in front of a commuter train in Morristown. Through he left no note, he had told friends of the pain he suffered through his life as he was among several dozen others who were abused in the 1970s by former parish priest, James T. Hanley. Among those mourning their late friend were two other Hanley victims, Bill Crane and Mark Serrano and the Rev. Kenneth Lasch. Lasch was among the first clergy members to come out in support of people sexually abused by priests. Crane now lives in Clackamas, Ore. , and is the coordinator of the Oregon chapter of the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, or SNAP. He said he came up with the idea of using the millstone as an image to commemorate victims and remind people of the need to protect children. "I get so much comfort in his verse," Crane said, referring to Jesus as quoted in the New Testament, Matthew 18:5-6. "It really sinks in the bloodstream about how children are to be protected. It is also a duel message of the stern leadership that is needed and it is a comfort to children." Serrano said the message of Jesus' statements relate perfectly to the plight of those sexually abused by priests. "I can't imagine a better physical symbol of Christ's love and compassion for those abused by the church," said Serrano. "This is not so much a rebuke or a warning as it is a symbol of Christ's priority with children." Like War Victims Crane said he and friends and supporters meeting after the funeral talked about how the Vietnam War memorial in Washington, D.C. , has helped the healing for Vietnam veterans. The same was needed for victims of clergy sexual abuse, Crane said. "We don't want this ever to be forgotten," he said. "To have a physical touchpoint on church grounds is meaningful and powerful. I didn't want the high price we endured to be forgotten." Crane said he has known other victims of clergy sexual abuse who had been tormented and committed suicide. But the death of his longtime friend hit especially hard. The idea of a memorial has helped Crane in his own healing, he said. Lasch said victims of sexual abuse deserve to be remembered in the same way as victims of war or those who die in such calamities as the Sept. 11, 2001, World Trade Center attacks. "So it seems logical that we would honor victims of sexual abuse and know we have a symbolic way of saying we are so sorry for what happened," said Lasch. snapnetwork.org has directions for dedication of Millstone this Sunday 1PM Mendham NJ. Are there any plans for a Jehovah Witness Millstone Dedication for Jehovah Witness victims of sexual abuse by Jehovah Witness Ordained Ministers?

Jacob Friday, April 23, 2004
@ 5:37 PM
oppressive wolves- Acts 20:28,29
As in the days of the apostles, some of the elders today have proved to be oppressive wolves and not acting on abuse complaints and ignoring the distress of a child is one way they have proven to be oppressive. May they be made to pay by the courts. -------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-I am happy to see your recognition of the Governing Bodies responsibility in hurting children.

Pam Friday, April 23, 2004
@ 6:06 PM
FYI
My husband's boss was df several years ago. He does not make a point of eating his lunch away from his boss or leaving the room when his boss is eating his lunch at work. They often discuss the business over lunch at work, but they dont have any spiritual fellowship. Tony does not run down the WT anyway and if he did my husband would would not agree with what he says. The elders know my husband works for Tony but they dont make any inquiries as to the nature of my husband's daily fellowship with him. They leave it up to his conscience. I also speak to Tony when I visit my husband at work, but liek with my husband it's not spiritual fellowship. --------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Please provide your fathers name and address so we may report him to the Society. the August 2002 KM makes this comment-- 2 How to Treat Expelled Ones: God's Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.... Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor.5:11, 13) Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.--See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981. pages 18-20. 3 This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved, God's Word states that we should 'not even eat with such a man.' (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person, this would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant. ------------------ Your father should confess his sin to the elders and show repentance for sinning against Jehovah. When you fail to follow your doctrine you show yourself to be a hypocrite and living a lie.

Helen Friday, April 23, 2004
@ 10:09 PM
Ray Franz
Ray Franz was df for agreeing with a df person that the 607-1914 chronology was incorrect. ------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-not so, RF was df for eating with a disassociated person that he worked for.

PS Friday, April 23, 2004
@ 10:46 PM
apostate site shut down
The apostate website "wt o" has been shut down for unauthorised use of WT publications which have a copyright. Be warned! ------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-the name of the website was edited as due to remaining neutral on doctrine we do not show websites that challenge doctrinal issues. However your comment is in error the website mentioned continues to operate and show many publications of the organization.

J.C. Saturday, April 24, 2004
@ 2:25 PM
A free gift........
.God Bless you in the name of Jesus Christ. God loves you so much that he is willing to forgive your sins and change your life. For all have sinned, and the wages of sin is death, and eternity in burning in hell. But God sent his only son Jesus Christ to die on the cross, only to rise from the dead and conquer death and hell, so that he might be the perfect sacrifice for your sins, and you could have eternal life in Heaven. Salvation is a free gift...nothing you can do to earn it! All sins can be forgiven, except if you reject Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

MA Saturday, April 24, 2004
@ 9:26 PM
SMs post in the newsletter
With 20/20 hindsight this is good advice for someone who has been abused that wants to remain a JW. The catch is not many abused 10 year old JWs will be logging on to SL to read it. It took me 20 years to come to a similar conclusion by myself. Congratulations go to your mum for backing you up but this is certainly not always the case. While it is true you can go against the elders advice, it can be a very lonely time as a JW if you do. When you said Please return to Him if you've left. Do you mean Jehovah or the org? I am also thankful to Bill for letting me get things off of my chest. Do you notice there is not a lot of opportunity for doing that while youre in the org. I will be interested in knowing how your Judicial Committee goes for communicating with Bill.

matriarch Sunday, April 25, 2004
@ 10:21 AM
support from canada
being brave enough to protect children is the most redeeming thing you will do in your life. I hope you all have the best of everything...:*

NN Sunday, April 25, 2004
@ 1:31 PM
To Pam,
I'm starting to get real tired of this "do not blame the organisation" and "wait on jehova to sort it all out" stuff!!! To all of those who are using this kind of argumentation: organisations that use strategies of blaming individuals but denying any responsibility on the part of the (all-mighty) organisation. You ought to be aware of that this is a typical sect/cult behaviour. And any person believing in the Bible also ought to be aware of that God has given us the Bible as a excellent tool to sort out all kind of problems. (I myself for a long time wondered and got quite upset about that the witnesses never seemed to use the Bible in real life, instead everything was just about does and don'ts) And the only time the Bible really rekommends a waiting- strategy is when believers are in an oppressed situation by non-believers. The solution is quite often combined with some kind of retribution against the oppresser (in this case it ought to be the Watchtower org). The way you misuse this scripture is quite disgusting since you by your disuse of it implies that Gods word is really of no use. Why don't you start to live as true christians instead of just talking about it?

D.C.L. Sunday, April 25, 2004
@ 7:14 PM
To B.M. You
You say you are saddened and angered at seeing some people on this site perhaps leaving Jehovah over "some stupid jerks" in some congregations and that we should put some of the blame on ourselves for having no common sense like you apparently think you do. You feel the Elders are just "A lot of imperfect men" and say nothing of the official teachings, I.E. scriptures they use to support their position. Do the silentlambs then refuse to acknowledge those scriptures? Not so! We do not leave Jehovah, but cry out for justice when others fail us. I think you have demeaned the thousands of little victims looking for some help and compassion from Bill and this website. Shame on you for burdening them further. D.C.L.

ilidio Sunday, April 25, 2004
@ 7:31 PM
To: NN
You have the nerve to come here and tell her untrue stories based on information from 30 years (1974 WT) ago! You are way behind in times baby . Have you got any idea how many presidents have we had since that date? Yes, a person can be disfellowshipped for talking to a person who is disfellowshipped who has disassociated herself. How do I know that? Well, it just so happens that about 2 years ago my wife and I wrote letters to the to the elders in our congregation as well as the society and asked to be no part of it any longer. Sixteen months ago my wife and I had a son. The grandmother (my wifes mother, a witness) has not seen her only grandson in nearly 7 months due to being afraid of being disfellowshipped. This is in fact the most ridiculous punishments that the org can do on the followers. I can only imagine on how Jesus would feel over this stupidity. You guys must be dumb as sxxxt to follow such rules. Really, what crime did my wife and I commit or my SON for not being able to know her grandmother? Which by the way my wife and I dont care if we dont see her mother again ever. However I think it is cruel to deprive a baby of knowing the grandmother. Next time you come in here please check your information otherwise please keep mouth shut.

Pam Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 12:10 AM
Quoting out of context again
You claim you have the elders handbook - so check it out, and also the many WTs including the 1974 (8/1) - Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint Towards Disfellowshipped Ones It clearly clarifies the difference between associating over business and family matters and having SPIRITUAL fellowship which means agreeing with false beliefs or immoral behavior, and not opposing it as I am doing here. My own brother was also df many years ago and I have just seen him today, at my mother's house ( she is also a JW) as he comes over and does some of the heavier gardening jobs for her. As to how far you go with associating with DF relatives or workmates is a matter of conscience, and that and the elder's handbook makes very clear. And you did not even read what I said correctly - It is my husband who's boss has been DF, not my father! Just proves you dont read the WT's properly either Ray Franz did side with his landlord (not his boss) over the 607-1914 chronology which as you know disagrees with secular chronology over the 70 year exile. Hence he was having spiritual fellowship with him and not just eating with him, rather than opposing his landlord's false beliefs.--------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-You are simply not telling the truth and the quote from the August 2002 KM shows where the truth lay. IF you are associating with your df relatives and claim to be a JW in good standing you will not be for long. Living a lie and a double life, then coming forward on this guestbook to try and pretend it is ok is the ultimate lie. You need to go try to mislead people somewhere else, future posts of this nature will be deleted. By the way using articles written by Ran Franz as all JW's know regarding the 1974 WT is just simply bad ballet.

Helen Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 12:15 AM
what spiritual fellowship is WT 8/1/74
5 Congregational elders, as well as individual members of a congregation, therefore, ought to guard against developing an attitude approaching that which some Jewish rabbinical writers fomented toward Gentiles in viewing them as virtual enemies. It is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshiped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way. As noted earlier, some rabbinical writings held that, even if in peril of death, no assistance should be extended to Gentiles. Suppose, then, a member of a Christian congregation boating on a lake were to see another boat containing a disfellowshiped person capsize, throwing the disfellowshiped one into the water where he struggled to stay afloat. Could the Christian ignore that one's peril, row away and feel free from guilt before Godinasmuch as the one in danger of drowning was disfellowshiped, viewed as "a man of the nations"? Certainly not. That would be cruel and inhumane. We cannot imagine Christ Jesus doing so; nor would any other Jew of the first century who had a balanced viewpoint have reacted that way toward a Gentile or a tax collector in such a plight. 6 But consider a less extreme situation. What if a woman who had been disfellowshiped were to attend a congregational meeting and upon leaving the hall found that her car, parked nearby, had developed a flat tire? Should the male members of the congregation, seeing her plight, refuse to aid her, perhaps leaving it up to some worldly person to come along and do so? This too would be needlessly unkind and inhumane. Yet situations just like this have developed, perhaps in all good conscience, yet due to a lack of balance in viewpoint. 7 If we imitate our heavenly Father we will remember that he even showed certain considerateness toward the first human pair after their disfellowshiping in Eden, providing them with clothing. (Gen. 3:21) This was an undeserved kindness toward them. As Jesus reminded his disciples, Jehovah God "makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous." (Matt. 5:45) The apostle Paul showed that, despite the independent course the Gentile nations took contrary to God's way, Jehovah "did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving [them] rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling [their] hearts to the full with food and good cheer." (Acts 14:16, 17) So, not "mixing in company" with a person, or treating such one as "a man of the nations," does not prevent us from being decent, courteous, considerate and humane. WHAT SPIRITUAL FELLOWSHIPING INVOLVES 8 The Greek expression used by Paul for "mixing in company with" is the verb syn·a·na·mi'gny·mi, meaning "to mix or mingle together." The basic verb involved (mi'gny·mi) is used at Matthew 27:34 to describe the mixing of wine with gall and at Luke 13:1 to describe Pilate's mixing blood with sacrifices. So it involves a real merging or blending, a uniting into a combination or compound. For us to 'mix in company' with others would imply a fellowship existing among us. The English term "fellowship" has the sense of "comradeship; companionship; friendliness," there being a "community [or, common and mutual sharing] of interest, sentiment, etc." (The World Book Dictionary) So, to fellowship with another means accepting the other person as on an equal standing with oneself, being interested in and entertaining his views, sharing these with an open and favorable attitude. To have spiritual fellowship with another would be, in effect, to have a spiritual 'good time' together. ------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-This is really funny, you are quoting from an article written by Ray Franz to try and show the teh current policy on Dfing??? It is a well known fact in the organization this article was corrected in later writings of the organization and actions toward df individuals was tightened up. An excellent example is the August 2002 KM regarding how to treat relatives. Why do you run back 25 years to quote from an article written by the greatest apostate of the organization?? Typical misinformation from those that have ulterior motives. Now can you guess what the motive is?

ilidio Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 5:56 AM
Message sent in error to NN
Sorry NN, after going back I realized that my message was for PAM not for you

MA Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 10:07 AM
Don't cults practice disfellowshipping?
Two lines of reasoning against birthdays and the trinity JWs use is; the bible has 2 accounts of birthdays which where held by non believers and something unpleasant happened. The word trinity does not appear in the bible and was a common belief of manmade religions. Now look up the word disfellowship in the concordance of the NWT of the bible, follow the trail and see if their reasoning is consistent. By the way, Corinthians doesnt count because Paul mentioned the wrong doing not the person by name so only the people who knew of this persons hypocrisy where encouraged to act. Silent Lambs is right, JWs take Ding pretty seriously. I once went for reinstatement and had to stop boarding at the home of an x bible study couple in case they wanted to come back to the truth. I was also encouraged to give up my full time job as a storeman because it would stop me from putting kingdom interests first. It would be laughable to tell a reinstatement committee that you where using SL to help with abuse issues. Its no wonder JWs find loopholes to sidestep there own laws. But didnt love fulfil the old law (mat 22 40), maybe you need a new set of laws so others can measure how will you are applying the fulfillment (love) of the old law& hmmm? (Gal 3 2-3)

Jacob Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 4:26 PM
misundertsood me
Again! I was referring to elders who are approached by abuse victims callously ignoring their plight being oppressive wolves. The governing body does not have any first hand dealings with abuse victims.-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-The Governing Body has known first hand about the abuse issue since at least 1992 when a fifty page report was filed with them outlining the extent of the problem. Three specfic recommendations were made in the interests of protecting children. To this day not one of those recommendations have been acted upon. The people that control the wolves bear the ultimate responsibility.

voideater Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 8:32 PM
To SM - Common Sense
The difficulty with accepting blame because we do not use common sense to protect ourselves or children is two- fold: first, we abused children are blameless; and, second, we abused children and the typical sheep in the congregations are expressly forbidden to use common sense. The Organization sets itself up as God's representatives on Earth, and we simply are not allowed to speak against them. There is an inherent imbalance of power here - just as a therapist with a client, an adult with a child, so too a minister and a congregant is so lopsided in power that common sense is not available.

Helen Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 8:36 PM
Ray Franz???
The writers of the WT articles have always remained anonymous. In any case it was FRED Franz, not his nephew Ray who was the president of the WTS at that time. In any case, thanks for posting it. As you can see SPIRITUAL fellowship is not just simply speaking to someone about family matters or business. ----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-As stated this article was corrected with subsequent articles that have followed. Your 2002 KM is the current and correct view held by the organization which is in direct conflict with the 74 Wt article.

elder's wife Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 8:40 PM
Flock book
The elders book and more recent WTs do say that elders do not inquire into the extent to which a baptised witness associates with df relatives. ----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- sielntlambs reply-Sister have you read your August KM? Perhaps you forgot this paragraph? 4 What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah's view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15.1981, page 25, says: "A simple 'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship- Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?" or perhaps this excellent example? 13 After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother. and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized. Now why would you want to apostacise from the belief and teaching of the organization?

Jacob Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 8:50 PM
governing body and abuse victims
The governing body does not deal with individual abuse complaints - you have misunderstood AGAIN. Hence they advise elders to report any complaint from a CHILD to the police especially when it required by Law. I know of a case going back 20 years where that was done, and the abuser was not only arrested and jailed but also df'd. But individual elders who ignore complaints from a CHILD are like the wolves spoken of by Paul.They see first hand the distress and pain of young victims and just brush it aside.That is apparently the situation with Amy B in Amarillo. I hope they do have to pay for letting that pervert continue his misdeeds. Adults coming forward for the first time with complaints going back 10-20 years are not treated the same as when a child complains - not even in the courts do they always get justice. They of course can go to the police if the statute of limitations allows it and the outcome of that may determine what happens to the alledged abuser. ------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-You are misinformed, elders are instructed to remain neutral when it comes to reporting abuse unless required by law. This is a well known fact for those that have served and dealt with abuse allegations. That instruction comes directly from the GB. The case in Texas if you read the transcript includes information of how elders were directly informed on how to proceed by directives from the Service Department. The lawsuit will soon be amended to include the negligant directives of the GB and everyone in between.

Monday, April 26, 2004
@ 8:55 PM

Pam, As mentioned before my wife and I asked to be disassociated (we did not commit any sin that was deemed for us to be disfellowshipped) We simply could not agree with the way they were handling abuse cases in the congregation and therefore could not be part of it anymore. We live more exemplary lives that most witnesses we know, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. We have a small boy (16 months old). My mother in law has not seen us or the baby in 7 months because if she sees either us or the baby she will be disfellowshipped. None of our friends (my wife 30 years and myself 15) now talk to us. The elders get the input on this matter from the society. How can you be so blind about the subject! I, on the other hand talk to all the witnesses I see. If they dont talk to me (which none of them do) it is their decision. However, I will do the right thing and talk to everyone I see, Jesus did that, he spoke to robbers, prostitutes, Pharisees, and the list goes on. If Jesus did that why would I not talk to you? I want to follow Jesus example! Do you??? He based his life on love and forgiveness Are you following his example? In any event the elders book pay attention to yourselves and to the flock says the following on page 103: Proper View of: Disfellowshipped and disassociated ones are shunned by those who wish to have a good relationship with Jeho- vah.

Honey Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 2:06 AM
JW day care centres? (Napa case report)
Since when did Jehovah's witnesses operate organized day care centres specifically for JW children? ---------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silehntlambs reply-JW's as a religion fo not operate daycare centers. Individual JW's may operate a local daycare and members of course often support a fellow members daycare center.

Jacob Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 2:10 AM
moral obligation
The BOE letters and other WT source state that elders have a "moral obligation" to report abuse to police in states where it is not required by Law. That does not sound to me like any cover up. ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-this is a plain pure lie. No where is this stated in any BOE letter or WT article.

Jacob Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 2:29 AM
Abhor What Is Wicked - WT 1/1/97
What of a Child Molester? What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that 'blasphemy against the holy spirit' was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a childwhether incestuously or otherwisecannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around. However, he may still have to struggle with the wrong fleshly impulses he cultivated. (Ephesians 1:7) And there may be consequences that he cannot avoid. Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this. Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting. This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation. What are the Scriptural reasons for this? For one thing, an elder must be "self-controlled." (Titus 1:8) True, none of us have perfect self-control. (Romans 7:21-25) But a dedicated adult Christian who falls into the sin of child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness. Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul's counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: "Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others." (1 Timothy 5:22) For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.Compare the principle at Exodus 21:28, 29. Some may ask, 'Have not some committed other types of sin and apparently repented, only to repeat their sin later?' Yes, that has happened, but there are other factors to consider. If, for example, an individual makes immoral advances to another adult, the adult should be able to resist his or her advances. Children are much easier to deceive, confuse, or terrorize. The Bible speaks of a child's lack of wisdom. (Proverbs 22:15; 1 Corinthians 13:11) Jesus used children as an example of humble innocence. (Matthew 18:4; Luke 18:16, 17) The innocence of a child includes a complete lack of experience. Most children are open, eager to please, and thus vulnerable to abuse by a scheming adult whom they know and trust. Therefore, the congregation has a responsibility before Jehovah to protect its children. Well-trained children learn to obey and honor their parents, the elders, and other adults. (Ephesians 6:1, 2; 1 Timothy 5:1, 2; Hebrews 13:7) It would be a shocking perversion if one of these authority figures were to misuse that child's innocent trust so as to seduce or force him or her to submit to sexual acts. Those who have been sexually molested in this way often struggle for years to overcome the resulting emotional trauma. Hence, a child molester is subject to severe congregational discipline and restrictions. It is not his status as an authority figure that should be of concern but, rather, the unblemished purity of the congregation.1 Corinthians 5:6; 2 Peter 3:14. If a child molester sincerely repents, he will recognize the wisdom of applying Bible principles. If he truly learns to abhor what is wicked, he will despise what he did and struggle to avoid repeating his sin. (Proverbs 8:13; Romans 12:9) Further, he will surely thank Jehovah for the greatness of His love, as a result of which a repentant sinner, such as he is, can still worship our holy God and hope to be among "the upright" who will reside on earth forever.Proverbs 2:21. [Footnote] See "Questions From Readers" in the May 1, 1996, issue of The Watchtower. [Blurb on page 28] While Jehovah forgives repentant sinners, there may be consequences of their actions that cannot be avoided ------ ----------------------------------------------------------- --silentlambs reply-this article is of course posted on the website, it is interesting in that it did two specfic things. 1. The reappointment of child molesters after twenty years policy of the service department was covered up. 2. It was clearly shown that newly released JW child molesters would be required to participate in the door to door work to show repentence. Not very smart. This article was the result of lawsuits filed and settled regarding negligence of the organization in allowing elders to continue to serve that have previoulsy molested children. This recommendation was made to the GB in 1992 they waited five years to do anything about it. How many children were molested as the result of their failure decisevly when the need called for it? Was the slave allowing children to be raped for five years looking after his masters belongings properly?

Pam Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 2:36 AM
df familt members - 81 WT
*** w81 9/15 26-9 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . *** If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . AFTER Adam had been alone for some time, God said: "It is not good for the man to continue by himself." Then He created Eve and instituted human marriage. (Gen. 2:18, 21, 22) Thereafter, earth's population was to grow. So each person would come to have many relatives. Even if some family members, such as children, did not live nearby they could be visited and pleasant times shared.Gen. 1:28; Job 1:1-5. 2 God had purposed that families should be united in true worship, so religious beliefs would not create any divisions. But incidents occurred in which religion became a family issue. One of these was when Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled. Jehovah confirmed that he was dealing through Moses and Aaron, not through these religious rebels. Then Moses told the people to get away from the rebels' tents. What would the children and households of Korah, Dathan and Abiram do? Would they put loyalty to family ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his congregation? Most of those closely related to the rebels put family before God. Jehovah executed these relatives along with the rebels.Num. 16:16-33. 3 However, some of Korah's sons remained loyal to God and His people. They were not executed along with the rest of Korah's household and the families of Dathan and Abiram. (Num. 26:9-11) In fact, descendants of these surviving Korahites were later blessed with special service at the temple and mentioned with honor in the Bible.2 Chron. 20:14-19; Ps. 42, 44-49, 84, 85, 87. 4 A similar decision between loyalty to family and loyalty to God was faced when an Israelite became an apostate. Would his family, moved by human emotion or blood ties, try to shield him from being cut off? Or would even his brother, son or daughter realize that loyalty to God and the congregation was the right and wise course? (See Deuteronomy 13:6-11.) In the Christian arrangement today a sinner is not cut off by execution, but Christians may face tests because of a relative's being disciplined. RELATIVES MAY CAUSE PROBLEMS 5 Family connections and affection can be very strong. This is natural and is in accord with God's arrangement. (John 16:21) But these strong ties can also bring a difficult test on Christians. Jesus explained that one effect of a person's becoming a Christian would be that relatives might oppose. Jesus said: "I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me." Matt. 10:34-38. 6 Christians do not want such enmity to exist. And there is no reason why relatives should oppose or hate them for having become clean, moral, honest servants of God. Yet true Christians realize that they cannot put family before God. In the long run, what is in everyone's best interest is for Christians to continue faithful to God. In time they may be able to influence their relatives to walk on the way leading to salvation.Rom. 9:1-3; 1 Cor. 7:12-16. 7 Relatives may also cause problems for true Christians in another way. This may develop when a relative is disfellowshiped. As discussed in the preceding articles, if a person in the congregation unrepentantly practices gross sin, God requires that he be disfellowshiped. (1 Cor. 5:11- 13) The conduct of the wrongdoer has changed his relationship with Jehovah and therefore with family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses. God is not to blame for these results, because his standards are righteous and just. (Job 34:10, 12) Nor does the fault rest with the faithful Christian relatives. It is the disfellowshiped person who has made problems for himself and for his relatives, as did Korah, Dathan and Abiram. 8 We need to examine two distinct situations. The first is where a Christian lives in the same household with a disfellowshiped or disassociated family member. The second is where such a relative is not in the immediate family circle. IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY CIRCLE 9 A person might become a Christian without others in that one's family circle accepting the faith. For instance, a wife might be serving Jehovah, but her husband not. Despite that, she is still "one flesh" with her husband and is obliged to love and respect him. (Gen. 2:24; 1 Pet. 3:1-6) Or she might be married to a man who was a dedicated Christian but was later expelled from the congregation. Yet that would not end their marital ties; only death or a Scriptural divorce would do that.1 Cor. 7:39; Matt. 19:9. 10 Similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshiped or has disassociated himself, blood and family ties remain. Does that mean, then, that in the family circle everything remains the same when one member is disfellowshiped? Definitely not. 11 A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family memberswhile acknowledging family tieswill no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him. 1 Sam. 28:6; Prov. 15:8, 9. 12 That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas. 13 If a minor child is disfellowshiped, the parents will still care for his physical needs and provide moral training and discipline. They would not conduct a Bible study directly with the child, with him participating. Yet this does not mean that he would not be required to sit in on the family study. And they might direct attention to parts of the Bible or Christian publications that contain counsel he needs. (Prov. 1:8-19; 6:20-22; 29:17; Eph. 6:4) They can have him accompany them to and sit with them at Christian meetings, hoping that he will take to heart Biblical counsel. 14 But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. 15 For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household. 16 This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring "leaven" into the home?Gal. 5:9. 17 In Jesus' parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad's pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father's home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.Luke 15:11-32. DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES NOT LIVING AT HOME 18 The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one's home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bible's inspired direction: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person . . . , not even eating with such a man."1 Cor. 5:11. 19 Consequently, Christians related to such a disfellowshiped person living outside the home should strive to avoid needless association, even keeping business dealings to a minimum. --------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-As you can see from the 1981 article the stance on treating df relatives was strengthened in 1981. Of course this was over 20 years ago and with the writing of the 2002 article in the KM the stance was tightened yet again to even stricter guidlines. You must keep up to date to follow organizational guidlines. If you are following 1974 and 1981 articles you need to update to not be disrespecting the directives of the organization.

geevee Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 8:18 AM
ks91
Some comments about the elders book are interesting. Many claiming to have copies. The thing is available online so who could doubt it. One comment quotes pg 103. A point to note from an actual book is at the bottom of that page: "Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course". BUT add to that comment [as is done at elders meetings at circuit assemblies or when the c/o visits]: "Unless they condone the wrong conduct, attempts to mislead others, or criticizes the congregation [action of disfellowshipping] then could be disfellowshipped. The thing is that it would seem that the organization [GB} tightened the whole disfellowshipping thing to get some people. To really "exclude them from the group".

geevee Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 8:25 AM
helen
Just another quick one. Helen, you need to get educated. I know that Bill Bowen has his opinion about Ray Franz and I can see where he is coming from, but Helen get yourself a copy of Crisis of Conscience and read it. You might be surprised to learn that the GB do not write most of the material that we are given to read. In his book Ray Franz speaks openly about some of the publications and who wrote them.

NN Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 4:43 PM
Let reality talk
To all of you who are quoting Wacthtower publications to condone this destructive sect. Do you really think they would put on paper things that could be used against them? And do you not know that the only thing that counts is the "elders" in various levels of the organisation according to the principle "power is truth". The written word whether from the WT or even the Bible is worth nothing if You try to use it against one of this power mad persons. Perhaps you might not be df but no mather how good quotes you might use against them you will not get away. If they can not get rid of you they will see to it that you are eventually shunned by every one. This is an organisation that is not formed after the Bible but after an old fashioned patriarcal ideal were the male is in charge and has the right to do wathever he wishes, and bend every law to his own benefit. If you do not believe me, tell them that you are posting on this site - a thing that they have forbidden you to do (or are all of you perhaps "elder" in disguise)

geevee Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 6:33 PM
for Jacob
Man, get your head out of the sand!!! Here in OZ the letter that was raed to the congregation said what you are saying too. BUT clergy do NOT have mandatory reporting of child abuse of even suspected child abuse. So everyone in the congregation think how you think, BUT it is definitely not the case. I even rang bethel and the guy said that reporting would depend on.......! So who knows what that would be?--------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-also on this website you can read the letter sent to all boe in Australia after the cong letter that tried to explain that they meant calling the authorities meant calling them.

Kate Tuesday, April 27, 2004
@ 7:30 PM

I no longer go to the kh because of the abuse I suffered there when I was a child. I still believe in God and the bible. How do you get away from such brainwashing that the jw's are the only way? They are full of such hipocracy! I suppose it's like a cult and sometimes I still find myself lapsing into the automated jw response or just because my mother told me that it was right, it had to be. Does anyone have any suggestions? ------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org

avishai Wednesday, April 28, 2004
@ 1:16 AM

"The BOE letters and other WT source state that elders have a "moral obligation" to report abuse to police in states where it is not required by Law. That does not sound to me like any cover up." --------------------------- ------------- --------------------------------------------- -------------- Yeah, I heard about this announcement to congregations. It's ironic that it happened AFTER the dateline episode aired. Also, I hear that "blood transfusions" and "voting" are now reffered to as a "conscience matter", since they can't outright ban it, but they'll still DA you. Interesting. Another example of them saying one thing and doing another. Also, how are they supposed to report someone to "caeser's authorities" when, according to them, he's innocent due to the two witness rule? It's still business as usual, there are still lawsuits happening in reporting states from abuse in the last two years, lawsuits regarding non-reporting. How do you answer this?

DW in England Wednesday, April 28, 2004
@ 5:09 AM
Former JW
I have to say that I found this site to be particular interesting. My interest is mixture of negative and positive. I am encouraged by the fact that there are people who have the courage and are willing to speak out against certain principles that the Elders would otherwise prefer you keep to yourself. Additionally on the matter of paedophilia - I think that because Jehovah's Witnesses are in the media eye, more so than any other religion - by this I mean - Blood tranfusions issues and the Field Ministry have thrust JW's into the media eye, I think that the issue of paedophiles is a geniune one, but perhaps one blown out of proportion. If anyone geniunely beleives that there are more paedophiles within Jehovahs Witnesses than in Christanity or any other religion, I think that we are all very much mistaken, because it has been highlighted - this is now an assumption. One rumour and mumour leads to another and another and so on. Paedophilia is a problem in society in general, but to label the Kingdom Hall and the faith as a whole as a haven is senseless "bashing" and probably made by people who are either disfellowshipped or perhaps even apostates. I am not suggesting you're wrong, but it is an out-of-the- ordinary issue that has been used to cast yet another stone at the faith. From a positive - I think that, as I said, speaking out is a good thing. My story for leaving the truth was that as a teenager growing up, I rebelled alot against the truth because I wanted to be "free" from the constraints of having to go to the meeting, having to go on the ministry. I never DIDN'T go. There were aspects I liked - alot. I enjoyed giving Number 2 talks, I enjoyed when someone didn't show up for giving a talk on the ministry school and whoever was leading the school asking for a volenteer to deliver the talk - I enjoyed volenteering because I felt that these talks were my faith talking rather than a pre- planned talk designed to encourage. But I never got baptised - never. One day, I was at the Circuit Assembly at Twickenham - as a First Aider, I was on duty and met a really nice sister - someone I was attracted to in mind, personality and body - we developed a friendship, exchanged letters and as I really felt I liked her enough - I decided to make the decision to get baptised and do what I knew was right. After 6 months of following as I should have - the Presiding Overseer - a friend of my female friends father, rung my friends father and told him I wasn't the type of person his daughter should be associating with and that I WOULD definitely be a negitive influence. Despite the fact I was more dedicated than I have ever been - this man - who never liked my family because my Mum was a single parent - he choose to ruin a friendship - right or wrong in his reasons - he choose to do this. I completely lost faith in fairness and Jehovah looking after his witnesses - if my faith was motivated by the wrong thing - who cares - my reasons, which Jehovah would know - were the right reasons. My reasons were honourable and the Presiding Overseer was unfair. Since that day I began to question everything. I have only been to a handful of meetings since. Thank you for listening.

ilidio Wednesday, April 28, 2004
@ 1:18 PM
To Pam and her pals
SHUNNING is a common trait among esoteric movements that claim to be the Truth and Jehovah's Witnesses is one group that practices such extreme shunning of former members. So, members who disavow faith in the Watchtower doctrines are branded "apostates" and Witnesses are taught that they must hate such ones according to Watchtowers Oct. 1, 1993; Nov. 15, 1988; Sep. 15, 1981; Jun. 15, 1980 and July 15, 1961. The primary scripture for consideration is: quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.--1.Cor. 5:11 (NWT) The scripture is clear that a person with whom the congregation should not mix company with is one who is: 1) "called a brother" (which those who leave are not) 2) practicing fornication, greed, idolatry, reviling (insulting), habitual drunkenness, and/or extortion (theft) - which those who leave do not necessarily practice  in fact most of those who leave, have perfectly normal, healthy, moral lives! What of 2 John 10,11? If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works Christians were instructed to "greet" one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1.Cor.16:20; 2Cor.13:12; 1Pet.5:14;Ti.3:15;) When Paul sent his "greetings" in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the "brothers" be greeted by a "holy kiss" on his behalf. (1Thess.5:26) It was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48) Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded. "Not to be mixing in company with" . . . "not even eating with . . ." Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and customs of their day. Jesus taught in the synogogues; hence, he was called "Rabbi." Matt.26:25; 26:49; Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:25; John 1:38, 49; 3:2, 26; 4:31; 6:25; 9:2; 11:8 There were two kinds of association for religious worship: 1) public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend. 2) private gatherings of the different sects. Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT) Now one scripture I would like you to consider for even Paul counseled against abandoning those separated from the congregation: your part, brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. AND YET DO NOT BE CONSIDERING HIJ AS AN ENEMY,BUT CONTINUE ADMONISHING HIM AS A BROTHER.--2Thes.3:13-15 NWT

KL Wednesday, April 28, 2004
@ 6:03 PM
Update on my case
The first court date is set for Monday, May 3. It is what is known as the "Case Management Conference," which is a routine conference in which the parties inform the court of the status of the case. The WTBS has filed two motions and a demurrer which are scheduled to be heard June 22, 2004. As far as I know, the molestor, A.W. "Red" Harriman has not filed an answer yet but did just recently obtain an attorney. I will keep you all posted. And as far as all this disfellowshipping talk, what the heck is all that about? This is not the Disfellowshipped Lambs website, so how about we keep to the topic? All of you who want to debate df'ing should start your own website and leave us molest victims alone. Sure, one issue of this whole deal is disfellowshipping, but you people are taking it to the extreme. Let's just talk about the problem at hand, eh?

kb Wednesday, April 28, 2004
@ 6:29 PM

Has it occurred to everyone that Jehovah CANNOT be found in any Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall or any other Hall? His presence nor His Holy Spirit can be found there! God DOES NOT and CANNOT involve Himself with sexual perversions, lies, theft, extortion, abuse of every kind. The bible says that we (our conduct) must be holy because He (God) is holy. God is Holy. It goes against His own legal system to link Himself and/or put up with any human garbage that people like the Governing Body and their cronies come up with. The old cliche' that is always used as a way to brush things under the rug such as: "Just wait on Jehovah" "Jehovah will straighten the matter out in his own due time" is a bunch of garbage!!! Jehovah has already begun straighten all of those perverts and their buddies that condone them, out!! It started with this website. Knowledge is POWER!!

P Wednesday, April 28, 2004
@ 7:29 PM
Some Final Comments
Having looked further into your website I notice that all the accusations are presented in a clear easy-to-read manner - and yet the pages that actually set out how the Watchtower Child Protection Policy works are hidden at the ends of articles and are presented in a long jumbled mess of text. I would encourage all to view this page that actually appears on this silentlambs website but, conveniently, has very little attention drawn to it: http://www.silentlambs.org/howpolicywork.htm I also recommend viewing the videos that appear at: http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm I also would like to ask how anyone can say that the policy is not a thorough one that covers all legal and scriptural basis after reading the body of material that appears on your very own website at: http://www.silentlambs.org/education/MediaCoveruppage.cfm And how can any of the vast amount of material on the subject presented by the Society be classed as a cover-up? You claim that the keeping of a list proves that they are covering up the actions of paedophiles - surely any logical thinker can see that this list is kept only so that action CAN be taken as soon as the 2nd accusation/witness is made. If their aim was to cover up the situation then, rather than keep a record of it, they would simply forget about it. If this list is really so dangerous. Why are you compiling your own list from this very website: http://www.silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/pinpoint.cf m I would suggest that you enjoy being the leader of your own following, you enjoy the media attention, the marches, the merchandise and t-shirts, and you will therefore continue to lead this movement regardless of the weight of evidence that stands against you. As has been repeatedly stated - the organization has not denied that abuse has occurred, mistakes have been made and cases mishandled - but this has been on the part of a number of individuals and the organization strenuously deny that it is a fault of their policy which has always been one step ahead of the rest of world society. 20 years ago NO major religion, or secular organization had such comprehensive policies to handle child abuse as they do now, because it was an unheard of, misunderstood situation. Nobody knew how to handle it. And yet, even then, the organization were printing Awake! articles helping us to understand how we could protect our children. ------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- -silentlambs reply-Typical JW misinformation the links you show are on the home page of the website clearly listed with the mountains of evidence that show PR spokesman and WT attorneys providing misinformation to the public. Your sweeping statement of the great policy of the organization is a pile of you know what. The database does not have the names of one witness accused child molesters, you do not know how the database works if you read the home page of the website you would clearly understand that. Funny how you found so may others things but could not find that?? Finally the Pinpoint a pedophile survey has resulted in many child molesters being reported to police a far cry from what has been reported of the 23,720+ child molesters in the JW database. You do not seek truth you simply try to misdirect those that read the guestbook, could you be a troll?

NC Thursday, April 29, 2004
@ 5:52 AM
To P
After reading your recent entry in the Guestbook I couldn't help feeling that you have got it all wrong somehow. In the Spring of 2002 (in Australia that is) the news of the "leave it to Jehovah" policy surfaced here in the form of "Silent Witnesses" a TV program exposing child sex abuse scandals. My husband and I decided to find out more information. After scanning the net and investigating news reports we began to learn of the Dateline program in the US, the scandal in the UK and the march that Silentlambs organised through the streets of New York and present their case to the Governing Body. The Governing Body refused to speak to them which stated a hard and cold message to me of how they really felt about the abuse of pedophile victims which had taken place under their own jurisdiction. If you had been aware of what was really happening at that time, that is, been aware of the truth and not been listening to the white-washed version given by the Watchtower Society you never could have said what you did about Bill Bowen. When he knew about the cover-up he tried to do something about it. Taking on the imposing Watchtower Society must have taken a tremendous amount of courage. What you said about him is not correct. I would suggest that you educate yourself on the history of Silentlambs before you criticise him anymore.

NN Thursday, April 29, 2004
@ 7:32 AM
To P
You said that you've examined this internet sight but - convenently for you - you've managed to miss for example my last comment. Don't even imagine that anyone today can succeed in dragging a paper with someting scrabbled on it in order to be excused from what the really are doing. The former USSR had a lot of good laws, that they didn't care to honor. And it the same with the Wachtower. It is exactly as Jesus said: Don't believe their words, believe their deeds!

AK Thursday, April 29, 2004
@ 10:35 AM
Does the Watchtower Society engage in 'Coverups'?
To those who doubt and question the Society's propensity to engage in active 'coverups' for it's own interest, consider these facts: Have you ever been told what this organization, selected as we have been told as "God's Organization", printed, believed, taught and insisted was God's view in the early days of it's 'modern day' existence? And by the way, all of the points I make can be verified absolutely in the pages of the organizations' own publications. But unless you are ninety or a hundred years old, you have never seen them. They have been ignored and pushed into the archives, and until the onset of the digital revolution and the internet, you had no access to them. Here are just a few; WTBTS had stated repeatedly that the following years represented significant fulfillment of prophecy; 1780 - Matthew 24:29 fulfilled; 1798, 1799 - start of the last days, beginning of the time of the end; 1829 - start of the final 'separating work'; 1833 - fulfillment of Matthew 24:29 (again?); 1840 - the 'final sounding of the 7th trumpet'; 1846 - end of 70 weeks of years; 1872 - 6000 years of man's history complete; 1874 - start of the 40 year harvest; 1874 - the year of the Lord's return had begun; 1874 - Armageddon has started; 1874 - marked by the measure of an inside passage of a pyramid; 1875 - ressurection of the annointed started; 1877 - have entered the 'great tribulation'; 1878 - Russell identified as 'the faithful servant'; 1878 - start of the ressurection of the annointed 'saints'; 1878 - end of Isreal's favor with God (based on yet another measure of a pyramid); 1881 - the churches lose favor with God; 1880 - 'this generation', spoken of by Christ, ended; 1880 - Jews restored to Palastine, 144,000 converted to truth; 1881 - end of ressurection of the annointed; 1886 - destructive angels assembled, Armageddon has commenced; 1898 - WTBTS says that the saints will be composed of the supreme white race; 1900 - the call for preachers is not open to 'colored brethren'(Zion's Watchtower April 15,1900);1900 thru 1904 - many comments made derogatory to blacks, asians, ect. Elevating whites as chosen; 1910-1912 - great 'time of trouble' will begin (Great tribulation); 1914 - end of gentile times, annointed have been ressurected, world about to end before the year is over; 1914 - marked by 115 years since 1799; 1914 - Watchtower did not allow 'coloreds' to share seating with whites at photo drama presentations; 1914 - marked by measuring pyramids; 1915 - end of gentile times; 1917 - Watchtower announces that the war in Eupope is the start of Armageddon; 1920 - Wt announces that Jesus will use drugs injected intravenously to cure mankind; 1920 - all the nations will be destroyed in the fall of that year; 1925 - the faithful men of old will be walking among us now even as the old world still exists. These examples are literally just the tip of the iceburg. We have been told that this is the organization that Our Lord selected, since they were dispensing truth, while others did not! The organization could have told you about all these matters and more, how each prophetic understanding was dead wrong. Those misinterpretations of prophecy continue right up to this day - and once they are clearly wrong, the Society just drops the matter without mention, shuttles the incorrect understanding to the archives, and continues to tell us that God must be with us, for look how we understand matters scriptural in a way that no other religion does! That part has proven true - for we have never gotten a single one correct. Since we as witnesses, claim to be 'lovers of truth', why does the organization not publish a compilation of the failed 'prophetic understandings' of the past? This is, as the organisation calls such things, 'a sin of omission',i.e.; a coverup. This is a mark of the past in this organization, that will not work on this matter of child rape! For those of us who truly love the 'truth', will not stand for this! I issue a call to my former religious leaders in New York; STAND UP AND TELL US THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!! Lies, substituted as truth, cannot stand the test of time, or the test of the intelligent mind. WTBTS- if you really stand for truth and justice, protect these children from rape and molestation! Perhaps you could go back and read Russell's books on phrenology (study of the shape of the skull to determine a person's ability to serve God correctly, also a major teaching of the WTBTS in the early 1900's)to find a way to root out this problem. That might better fit the history of this organization than would using common sense and Biblical morality to achieve such worthy goals!!!! May the God of truth look out for the interests of the innocent. May he bless those who work toward that end, including Silentlambs!!

ilidio Thursday, April 29, 2004
@ 5:16 PM
To: AK
AK, you left me speechless. In just a few words you have spoken volumes. Let see what the JW pals have to say about it? Dont be surprised if you hear the New Light story. he he he.

DS Friday, April 30, 2004
@ 3:53 AM
I had no idea
I didn't realise that this happened in any other congregations other than the one I grew up in. We had 2 abusers that I know of in a congregation of around 30 Witnesses in a small country congregation and it wasn't until after I left that it came out that one had abused over 25 kids, starting at 7 years of age after he was abused by his uncle, until he was caught in his early 20's.He went to jail as one of the parents went to the police.Since he got out he has gone back to meetings in another congregation in another state.He wasn't disfellowshiped as he was repentant. Anyway thanks for opening my eyes that it goes on elsewhere.------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-could you please contact us at info@silentlambs.org

DEC Friday, April 30, 2004
@ 11:33 AM
to AK
Well said! If the average brother and sister had the courage to do a little research into the foundation of the organization and see for themselves the past track record of the WTBTS, they would be stunned. If a 'truth' has to be changed, how could it ever have been the truth to begin with. If Jehovah has always had his organization upon the earth to feed the sheep at the proper time, what organization existed to feed Charles Russell? Surely there would be some historical record somewhere to document that an organization existed.

MA Friday, April 30, 2004
@ 12:00 PM
expel
Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. I think we are in total agreement but for this one comment. The word expelling is clearly used in the Greek scriptures and was practised by the sect of the Pharisees to persecute Christians. If Paul meant expelling should be practised by Christians Im sure he would have said so. To illustrate: I could say to someone its safe to get in a car with a licensed driver but its not safe to go with an unlicensed driver. I am not disagreeing with the car licensing laws in most countries but a licence is given or taken away arbitrarily by someone else. If on the other hand I say to you only get in the car with someone safe then it is YOUR decision using YOUR intelligence and discernment. Mat 18:17 says to take a matter to the congregation (as opposed to the old boys club) similar to what happened in Corinthians (Paul wrote to the congregation, it says so at the beginning). It may be wise to follow the example of those taking the lead as was the case of the Corinthians following Pauls example. Romans 14:12 does remind us though we will each render an account (Gal 6:5). I dont think these words in Proverbs 2 where inspired to encourage us to rely on others to think for us 10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness. I hope I didnt dis you ilidio because I do enjoy your comments.

ilidio Saturday, May 1, 2004
@ 9:45 AM
To: MA
Ma, I was merely trying to make the point that the shunning done by the JW is totally applied to the wrong people most of the times. Who are the people who are willfully practicing willful sin? The ones who depart in good stand like myself, just because I could no longer be part of such two-facedness? Really, which sin did I put into practice? On the other hand the offender is still going to the congregation and viewed as a good Christian. So, who do you think should be shunned, me or the other person???? In my case the person that is still going to the congregation should be the one shunned not me or my wife! The person was counseled many times but because repented many times was forgiven all the time (well because cried a good tune, was silent reproved) but that was it. Is God so blind to not see what is going on? This is why I get so mad, all these injustices made in the name of Jehovah. I have very strong opinions when it comes to abuse. Than you go on to mention (((((((( Proverbs 2 where inspired to encourage us to rely on others to think for us 10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness)))))))))) Who are you applying this scripture to, myself or the JWs. Can you please clear that point???

ilidio Saturday, May 1, 2004
@ 11:10 AM
To: MA
Ma, I was merely trying to make the point that the shunning done by the JW is totally applied to the wrong people most of the times. Who are the people who are willfully practicing willful sin? The ones who depart in good stand like myself, just because I could no longer be part of such two-facedness? Really, which sin did I put into practice? On the other hand the offender is still going to the congregation and viewed as a good Christian. So, who do you think should be shunned, me or the other person???? In my case the person that is still going to the congregation should be the one shunned not me or my wife! The person was counseled many times but because repented many times was forgiven all the time (well because cried a good tune, was silent reproved) but that was it. Is God so blind to not see what is going on? This is why I get so mad, all these injustices made in the name of Jehovah. I have very strong opinions when it comes to abuse. Than you go on to mention (((((((( Proverbs 2 where inspired to encourage us to rely on others to think for us 10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness)))))))))) Who are you applying this scripture to, myself or the JWs. Can you please clear that point???

RICK B Saturday, May 1, 2004
@ 9:55 PM
ELDERS SON

Cynthia J Sunday, May 2, 2004
@ 9:05 AM
People need be able to make choices.
How does the Watchtower abuse it's members? Even if they change their stance on children and abuse, the members must endure a lifetime of "council" that is meant to guide them. It is best to just get away from this high control group. "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end.--1 John 2:17" (Our Kingdom Ministry 5/74 p3) This small group at the top love to have the final say in most aspects of it's members lives. They ripped my family to pieces for years with their shunning just because some didn't follow them to the letter.

MA Sunday, May 2, 2004
@ 9:07 AM
Expelling
Clearly Ilidio I am applying this scripture to you Proverbs 18:13 says When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears [it], that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation. After reading your posts over the last few months, you strike me as a man that lives by Proverbs 2. There would be little point in applying this to JW's because as Jesus said in Mathew 7:6 6 Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw YOUR pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip YOU open, which as you have stated (loss of family, friends etc) is what happened to you and many others who have made a stand on the issue of child abuse. Imagine as was practiced by early Christians (Mat 18:17) congregational problems where discussed openly as opposed the arbitrary practise of expulsion (john 16:2, john 9:22 john 12:42). Who do you think the majority (2 Cor 2:6) would shun you or this person? I hope I havent made you feel downhearted by my post because my intention is quite the reverse. I only wish I had the same courage, conviction and support of my wife as you did when I have been faced by similar circumstances. Perhaps John was thinking about people like you when he wrote at the end of 3rd John 9 I wrote something to the congregation, but Di"ot´re"phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. 10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation. 11 Beloved one, be an imitator, not of what is bad, but of what is good. He that does good originates with God. He that does bad has not seen God. 12 De"me´tri"us has had witness borne to him by them all and by the truth itself. In fact, we, also, are bearing witness, and you know that the witness we give is true. 13 I had many things to write you, yet I do not wish to go on writing you with ink and pen. 14 But I am hoping to see you directly, and we shall speak face to face. May you have peace. The friends send you their greetings. Give my greetings to the friends by name

DJB Sunday, May 2, 2004
@ 10:19 PM
Just saying Hello from Canada!!!
I haven't been here in awhile...This issue really needs to be dealt with...I can't say this enough...this website serves a very valuable funtion exposing what is REALLY HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD...The Watchtower can't keep on ignoring the victims of sexual abuse...but sad to say it but they will keep right on doing it...So by doing what they are doing they have made themselves part of the problem.......WHICH JEHOVAH WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE!!!! Jehovah sees us no matter where we are we can't fool him...It is always incouraging to see the courage of those who have come forward....Wishing all the best and every success...............DJB

Jacob Monday, May 3, 2004
@ 2:51 AM
to DEC
Truth does not change. It's our understanding that changes. Prov 4:18. As Paul said - we see through a glass darkly 1 Cor 13:12(KJV) How would feel about a doctor who was still using leeches and practising blood letting to cure your ills? It's called progress and our understanding of the Bible progresses with time, just like a scientist's does of the world around him

MA Monday, May 3, 2004
@ 7:41 AM
To KL
Hope things go well with your case. While I agree this is not disfellowshippedlambs.org it is silentlambs.org and disfellowshipping is very relevant to the silence and is peculiar to JW abuse survivors. Here are the reasons I think Ding is pertinent to the JW abuse issue. 1)JW children have a fear of being ded and a JW abuser can use that as leverage to silence the victim. Most abuse victims fell some sort of responsibility for what happened&.. 2)Abuse victims in a desperate cry for help will often do self destructive acts (e.g. smoking, fornication drugs etc) and then will be Ded for wrongdoing&. 3)The JW judicial process can interfere with police investigations. 4)Ones can be Ded for speaking out against JW policies on abuse (e.g. Bill Bowen). 5)Elders that have dealt with an abuser in a judicial capacity are required not to discuss the case with anyone else. 6)Abuse victims that have put there case forward to the elders are required to not discuss the matter with anyone else and if they do they are at risk of being ded. 7)Even if the abuser is ded, if s/he is reinstated they are protected by a cone of silence as per 4 and 5. 8)A JW abuse victim does not have a complete choice as to there healing process. For example an abuse survivor could be ded for posting on Silent Lambs 9)A sympathetic friend or family member could be ded for trying to help an abuse survivor who had been ded for any of the reasons above 10)An abuse survivor is at the risk of losing their spirituality because of believing that JWs practise of disfellowshipping is condoned by Jehovah.

Heidi Monday, May 3, 2004
@ 12:36 PM
March for Child Abuse
Thank you for the terrific update on the recent March in Washington for issues of child abuse, and the participation of Silent Lambs. It's a shame you couldn't also have participated in the Women's March! Keep the news coming - every time I hear something new I thank Benevolent Deities Inc that I am no longer associated with an insular and destructive religious group.

ilidio Monday, May 3, 2004
@ 2:59 PM
MA
MA, you could not discourage me even if you tried, God knows, the JW tried and were not successful!!! I am very grateful that my wife went along with my decision to leave (she was a JW by birth, 30 years, and I for 15 years and very much involved in it) however when it was time for us to leave we stuck together on this idea and never looked back. We have a strong marriage (not saying that you dont.) therefore, when certain decisions need to be made we stick together and go forward. We dont give a rats behind of what people think or say. Its our lives and we do what we want when we want. I dont even care if they ever talk to us again, but I will never stop talking to the witnesses we see on the street. We made a vow and will continue doing it till the day we die.

ilidio Monday, May 3, 2004
@ 7:47 PM
Jacob
Jacob, I agree with you, the truth does not change.Only your understating (jehovahs witnesses understanding that is) changes. Yes, I have heard it before, you call it new light. Would it be possible for an almighty God which you CLAIM TO represent on earth not give you the right light to make you understand it the first, the second or third time..................? Would it be fare to say that the light is dim? In my opinion the light was turned off a long time ago. My wife (a witness for 30 years) disagrees with me. She says that the light was never turned on to start with. You would do well to read: (((((((AK notes, Does the Watchtower Society engage in 'Coverups'? of Thursday, April 29, 2004 @10:35AM)))))) to see how much your truth has changed. For God sake man they make rules as they go along. It's like they are writting a script for a soap opera. you said: {{{{{{ How would feel about a doctor who was still using leeches and practicing blood letting to cure your ills?}}}}}}}}} Man you hit the nail on the head. In a few words you described the entire watchtower (dis) organization. You are so blind that if the truth smacks you on the face you will not know it.

AK Tuesday, May 4, 2004
@ 9:36 AM
Did any 'elders' take my challenge?
In April, as 'abuse awareness month', I issued a challenge to genuinely 'loving shepherds of the flock'. The challenge was to take any opportunity afforded you, i.e; a talk, part on the service meeting, ect, to denounce the organization's cover-up of sexual abuse and it's degredation of the innocent victims of child rape by 'good-standing' members of the congregation. Next, then to let the organization do as they always do to those who dare speak out against wrongs committed in the name of God, most likely disfellowship you! This action would accomplish two massive goals. 1- It would assure, those who have the guts, are identified with those that Jesus stated would 'have love among themselves'. 2- It would inform countless persons within the flock that you consider yourself appointed to protect and shelter, that indeed some do stand up for righteousness in spite of the price! In other words, Love as spoken of by Jesus Christ would become to you an active verb and not a passive noun! It would be interesting to see if any did that? It is interesting to note that most 'elders' would say they are willing to die for anyone in the flock, but my guess is that very few are willing to live and speak for those in the flock that are least able to do so for themselves, the children! Most 'elders' will be happy to sing the praises of ancients like Jeremiah, who stood up in defiance of, yes the Kings (considered to be the annointed of Jehovah, right?), but are unwilling to stand up like he did in favor of what is right and correct worship of God. And though you might argue that Jeremiah was an 'appointed prophet', and you are not, that would not invalidate your responsibility to the flock, which you are currently ignoring by allowing child-rape in the boundaries of 'God's Organized Flock'!! Jeremiah's words sound eerily like the situation today within the organization; "The prophets themselves actually prophecy in falsehood; and as for the priests, they go subduing according to their powers. And my own people have loved it that way; and what will you men do in the finale of it?" (Jeremiah 5:31) So, you elders, leaders and proponents of the good, how will you act? Like the 'prophets' or 'priests' that stood by and watched the evil occuring in the gates?, just 'subduing' with your power those with the intestinal fortitude to stand up for the children? Where will you make a showing '"in the finale of it?", when standing before God and Christ (and not the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) as your judges? Or will you really learn a lesson of love (the verb), and like Jeremiah, Stephen, Paul, state truth and stand for good, no matter the price! Remember, Jehovah will not reward you because you can state 'I was an elder, and I did exactly as the WTBTS told me, but I ignored the command to "Love one another", as commanded by our Lord Jesus himself. Please let me in to your kingdom!' Jesus' answer will be to many; "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness". (Matthew 7:23) Elders - How will he answer you??? Jeff

LK Tuesday, May 4, 2004
@ 12:04 PM
REPLY TO JACOB
You can apply your explanation of the changing of understanding with time of jehovah's witnesses to any religion or belief system. No religion or organization with a particular belief system has ever remained the same, most if not all claim to progress and claim that their understanding of the bible progresses with time, are all religions speaking truth because their understanding is still progressing? The understanding of the bible Jehovah's Witnesses claim to have changes back and forth so much you couldn't call it progression of bible understanding. For it progresses, than the writer's of the watchtower change their mind and regress back to the previous understanding and then light bulb goes off and they then progress to the same understanding they had originally. Read their literature compare the old to knew and every thing in between and you will find that some of the beliefs they had in the 50's were replaced with "new light" in the 60's, and the 60's "New Light" was replaced by "New light" in the 70's, but the 70's "new light is simply a regression to the light of the 50's. So in fact most of the current progression of bible understanding by Jehovah's Witnessess is not new light at all but simply "OLD LIGHT".

Jacob Tuesday, May 4, 2004
@ 10:16 PM
to ilidio also the Danish newsletter
Yes the light was dim even in Paul's day. That is why he used the expression "through a glass darkly" (KJV) in 1 Cor 13:12. As for the Danish reporter - his report has been poorly researched. eg the Oct 8 1993 Awake did not discourage seeking professional counselling, only avoiding those who may practise wrong methods, such as hypnosis. If you go online and check out the story of the McMartin trials you will learn how a social worker actually bullied children into making extraordinary claims about abuse and which were proven false in court. So checking the credentials of professionals is also advisable.

CONDOR Wednesday, May 5, 2004
@ 1:18 PM
STUPID PIECES OF SH--
You're a piece of f---ing s--t, you stupid f---ing puppet of SATAN, SATAN, SATAN, SATAN, SATAN, STATAN, SATAN!!! You Mother f--ing Daddy's little bitch, you stupid f---ing little cock hound who can't wait to get down on your knees. ---------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- sielntlambs reply-Brother Jaracz is that you?

NN Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 7:05 AM
A perverted organization
When I first read Mr Bowens slogan "Pedophile Paradise" for this perverted organization, about a year ago I thought it a bit exaggerated. But the more I learn the more I realise that the problem is even bigger, this organization has developed into an a really nasty oppressive management-by-fear organization. It is the same kind of society like in the Stalin Soviet Union, actually it is quite like it in a lot of ways. For example; for the witnesses as a group it is of no great concern to symbolically "kill" people - without them even understanding it happening or why it happens that they are totaly outside - by shunning them for whatever reason that might serve some influential persons interest. No questions are asked, total loyalty given, there is no possibility what so ever of having a different opinion. And "the loyal" are becoming more and more agressive, toward the "not so very loyal". For myself I'm greately concerned about the honest but naïve persons still in there, people like myself that don't know so much about what is going on or believing that the problems are of a local charactere. Those people are in great danger to become scape goats, I know for years - without understanding it - I was a scape goat myself.

Hanna Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 10:24 AM
Abusive Parents
Its sad that some kids have abuseve parents. When parents have an affect on you in so many ways. How they act affects you and your relationship towerds them.They are your parents every thing they do has an effect on you good or bad.

DEC Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 11:58 AM
To Jacob
I would hardly compare the progression of science and medicine with increased understanding of the Bible. The world of science and medicine does not claim that God is the source of their understanding . However the WTBTS claims that Jehovah IS the source of ALL new understanding. I would suggest you do a little research. The Watchtower of 4/1/72 pg. 197 makes the bold claim that they are Jehovah's prophet on earth today. I quote : "Of course it is easy to say that this group acts as a prophet of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record" Now of course they no longer make that claim. Why? Because the record DID prove otherwise! They predicted that "1914 would see the end of the kingdoms of this world and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God" In 1917: "the churches will soon cease to be". In 1925 they made this claim: "They are to be resurrected as perfect men and constitute princes or rulers in the earth....Therefore we may CONFIDENTLY expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful worthies of old. Jacob, can you honestly say that this is progression of truth? Or is it the work of men desperately trying to establish their own "kingdom"?

LNA Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 2:12 PM
To Condor
Please tell me you are witness, because then you have proven everything about this organization to be true. Too funny, I cant stop crying Im laughing so hard.......

db Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 4:15 PM
opinion or fact???
Well I read THE WORLDWIDE PROBLEM OF CHILD ABUSE AND JEHOVAH WITNESSES, I found it to be very bothersome. So instead of just beleiving everything I read to be true, I ask real Jehovah Witnesses about their policies. Some of the information I read on this website was not true. I am not a Jehovah Witness but I do know that they encourage every alleged abuse to be reported to the proper athorities (the police) as soon as possible. Where is this information on this site being backed up as truth? How am I to believe the information given here is true when all it is...is writing! Where is the actual proof? Why are there no (REAL)books from the Jehovah Witnesses being used to prove these arguments? I will be back to check if there is actual proof or if this information is only based on opinion. -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------silentlambs reply- See post above for further information. It appears we have yet another person pretending to not be a jw offering sweeping statements without any proof whatsoever. It has been well documented by wt spokesman that they only report in states where is required to do so. On this website we use extensive information from the organization to show what their actual policy is including linking to their website. In addition, numerous documentaries are featured in which interviews with law enforcement along with abuse survivors clearly state abuse was not reported on numerous occasions. It is just a matter of clicking links on the website to find this information; for those reasons you are either an idiot, lazy, or a jw offering misinformation. Whichever you choose they all three insult the thousands of abuse survivors that have spoken truth on these matters.

AK Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 4:16 PM
Good Point - NN!
Your analogy of Stalin's Soviet Cleansing is, in a communal sense very applicable here. I know of brother's who have been spiritually executed for just choosing what to read. One brother had never said a word to a soul about having read Ray Franz's books until asked by an elder who suspected as much. He (the brother) asked how he could be expelled for reading material that he never attemped to use to influence anyone else, and was told that the organization could not take a chance that he might speak of it to others. That same tack was taken in PolPot's Cambodian 're-education' that resulted in the death of nearly half the population. Under that regime, anyone who was a threat to the 'new Cambodian truth' was quietly executed. The higher educated, the more dangerous to the state! Even the Catholic Church, which the WTBTS has insulted and attacked head on for it's heirarchy for well over 100 years, rarely excommunicates free-thinkers or even dissidents. The Catholic Church indeed has a lot in it's history that they would prefer to remain unspoken and uninvestigated. But they have survived those who disagree. Cowards like PolPot fear those with ideas that might challenge. The WTBTS seems to have a similar fear. We preach to millions to examine thier religions. But Watchtower leaders fear nothing more than the same kind of examination! PERHAPS they fear that they would not hold up under intelligent critique?? They haven't held up to mine!! Jeff

KL Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 5:19 PM
RE: CONDOR
Hey Bill, why do you let these kinds of things even get any play? This guy is obviously a bumbling coward and an idiot, for he did not identify who he is speaking too. I have went through too much for this jerk to be able to spout this kind of stuff towards me. Please remove his post. Thanks.---------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-The post that was put up was the least offensive of others that was posted by the same person. We certainly do not think it was directed toward any individual abuse survivor but more toward the information provided on silentlambs. We think it helps to know that there are those out there that have an intense hatred for silentlambs and the simple message to protect children. We try to put up information on boths sides of the issue to help the public see the anger both ways. It is interesting to note we are attacked equally by certain ones in the xjw movements as well as the uneducated in the JW organization. Both sides need to understand the issue and comprehend doing what is morally and ethically right for children is not based on blindly defending certain men that by their actions show they have little care for children. The xjw's and jw's should both learn to educate themselves on child abuse and excercise their God given character and conscience stand for what is right in the interests of supporting abuse survivors.

KL Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 5:21 PM
RE: Hanna
My parents were physically abusive, so I turned to an elder for help, and boy did he ever help - HIMSELF!!!! For four years. Now he is 80 and almost dead, but will soon be in jail anyway for what he did to me. And the WTBS is going down with him. I can't wait!

Fred B Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 5:30 PM
Theocratic Warfare Swearing
Condor: What a fine example of Theocratic Warfare Swearing you have provided for us. I must say that tingles went up and down my spine as you sparred with the "puppet of Satan Satan Satan Satan" accompanied all the time by Gods active force. Certainly the New System is just around the corner, and this fine example of christian love, will be an everyday event in that blessed day.

NN Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 5:37 PM
Useles persons
They are cowards and useless - the very few exceptions that was good persons are today on their way of becoming extinct - persons calling themselves "elders" and are responsible for many ruined and extinct lives. I have never in my entire life met such unpleasant power mad persons, which I guess depends on me living in a democracy that gives me the right to speak up against anyone. I truly hate these persons because of their incompetent behaviour and lack of propriety, of integrity and of real love and godly devotion. Those men are like small egoistic boys playing the computer game Sims city, they do their decisions not caring a damm about the ruined lifes they cause by their amateuristic incompetence. They do their decisions not on reality or on care for the ones in need but on their fear of provocing those ones in power (be it men or women)locally or higher up in the hierarcy. Lately I had an absurd dialog (per e-mail) with one former elder, a person quite harrassed by the organisation all his life, beginning with his father I guess. He is a person that has learned to bow to those higher up and abuse those below. He is a wreck, and as such ought to know that his precious organisation has no love for losers like himself. But he tried to play "elder" with me and showed me that for those persons the only thing they ar after is to manipulate the one opposing them. Since I know he is a wreck I curbed my anger and answered quite civilly, but he just went on and one trying in his sordid way to use all of the manipulating tricks he ever learned, he even had the indecency to hint at the time when he bullied me (not of course by his own initiative but acted as a tool for a quit weird "jezabel-sister"). The "conversation" with this person was just as weird as sad knowing this very sick man has two kids (of whom one is known to have prefered to stay in hospital instead of returning home) and a wife.

M.A.N. Thursday, May 6, 2004
@ 6:29 PM
To Condor
Hey, the war's over, get new parts for your head.

ilidi Friday, May 7, 2004
@ 11:25 AM
Jacob
Jacob: Yes, the light was dim in Pauls day. That is why he used the expression through a glass darkly (KJV). Your bible on the other hand says: For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror NO WONDER YOU DONT SEE ANYTHING RIGHT. Because you see through a mirror you see everything distorted or up side down!! Get a life man. Stop being such an idiotic hypocrite.

NN Friday, May 7, 2004
@ 11:33 AM
to db
So you asked "real witnesses", did you? Well I was a "real witness" until I got to know how they really acted in abuse situations. If you feel better not believeing the abuse victims, or the ones "not so real former witnesses" that take their stand. Well, do as you please. You are not alone to choose not to believe the victims, but rather the abusers or their supporters. This is a world wide phenomenon. But the truth remains - The "real witnesses" protects abusers, and by supporting them you will eventually have a share in their guilt.

M.A.N. Friday, May 7, 2004
@ 7:13 PM
To all of the idiots who attack this site, bill, and the cause he has taken up
To All JW's who post here: You are all hypocrites and liars. You have been told not to visit sites like this one, because it is "apostate" and many of us here are reproved, DF'd, or DA'd. You are obligated to turn yourselves in harmony with the Bible principle that says if someone knows of serious sin and doesn't report it, he is guilty before God. The WT never said you only had to report OTHER people. You should be reporting yourselves. In other words, there shouldn't be one single post defending the WT, attacking bill, his work, the victims who post here, or attacking even people who read these comments but don't post. I believe bill is DF'd. Are you supposed to have any spiritual discussions or contacts with a DF'd person? I don't think so. And don't say you hope to convert us back from our "sinning ways" or that you want to help us to "see the light" and the errors of our ways. First of all, only elders are supposed to deal with "reclaiming a DF'd person". Secondly, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of convincing us we are wrong. Many here are risking being DF'd if they are found out. Thirdly, you have no "light" to offer anyone. You don't have enough for yourselves, so how can you have extra to give us? You wouldn't know what light is if it hit you in the face. If I hear "the light gets brighter" more more time as an excuse for your flip-flops, I'm gonna puke. And that clever analogy the WT uses called "tacking" which is what a sailboat does to reach its course is a crock of shit. (bill, edit out what you must, including this sentence. I don't know what words you allow. Thanks.) When sailors "tack", they KNOW where they are headed for the second they set sail. After looking at 2 or 3 turns, it's plain where they are going to anyone observing the pattern. The WT does not "tack". They don't know how to sail. They don't know where they are going. A better analogy would be to say that the WT pilot and sailors are drunk or asleep and the ship is steaming in circles, drifting with the wind and tide and someday they crash into a port. Finding it's the wrong one, they then claim they stopped only to refuel or use the potty, then get back on the boat and close their eyes and try again. How many innocent ports are going to be smashed before they get to the right one? How many crew members will they kill until they get it right? How many smaller boats will they run over? I won't even go into the jackass medical claims they made over the years, it would take a novel. It is ridiculous enough to read what they believe in and how they've changed their minds, sometimes returning to the very beliefs they DF'd people for having years before they changed. I think they are jealous and pissed that a lowly publisher got it right before they did. Sounds like pride. Now let me see, how did God feel about pride......?? To Condor: What polite, "Christian" language you used. Nice move, bowel. Young people, including children, read this site. Didn't you use "unclean speech"? Now, how did the Bible feel about that.....?? If your IQ went up 40 points, you would still be beneath a cockroach in brains. NN, you made some good points. God is almost out of the picture now with the WT. It's now about power and fame for the senior members. Why this pathological occupstional about "obedience". Didn't mercy and love come before sacrifices and blind obedience? Most elders have no education. And they certainly have no training in cases of abuse. I'm in college studying Psychology, so to those of you who defend obeying the WT at any cost, don't even bother. I was a scapegoat myself, after my daughter was molested and the 3 cowards who made up the Jud. Comm. were more concerned about my keeping 586 and 607 to myself than about keeping my family together. To Jacob: You are right, truth doesn't change, but your understanding of it does. IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO EVER CHANGE!!! You claim to be God's channel. If God never changes, then do the angels hear him wrong when he gives them a message to deliver to the GB? Did the angel stop off at a bar near Neptune for a quick beer and arrive at Bethel drunk and deliver the message incorrectly? Or did the GB hear the angel wrong? Which is it? You can't have it both ways. You and the WT want to have your cake and eat it too. It doesn't work that way. The WT is the most militant religion I know of when it comes to attacking others for changing their teachings, yet the WT has changed its beliefs more than all the other religions combined. It would almost be comical if it weren't so sad and if it hadn't hurt millions of people. I'll have a Doctorate in Psychology some day. JW's have the highest rate of mental illness of all religions. What does that tell you. Probably nothing, since you are a few chips short of a motherboard anyway. ilidio, I think you did a good job telling Jacob what needed to be said. AK: Loved your comments. You hit it right on the head. Too bad there aren't that many heads in the WT. DEC: You made good points about the past history 100 years ago. I have most of the old books, so I can check. But I can't respect a religion that prints one thing, changes its mind 20 years later, and then says it never printed the first thing. I hold both books in front of me and see the lies myself. How can the WT "sell" a product, the Bible, by using tactics that break half the rules contained in that product?? Maybe Jacob thinks Abraham and Isaac came back in 1925 and didn't like Beth Sarim, so they took a ride on the SS Minnow. Maybe they are on Gilligan's Island? To DB: You are dead wrong about how the elders report abuse. This site has made that clear dozens of times. Either you are blind or stupid. If you are not a JW, then be thankful for that. Go away and find a hobby, like knitting. So the proof given here is only "WRITING"??? What the hell do you call the WT and Awake magazines and all the other books the WT publishes? You see, it works this way. You take letters and make little words with them. Then you take the words (probably small easy ones for you) and make sentences with them. You can use those sentences to convey ideas. This is called "WRITING". It's the same thing the Society uses. Or maybe you are special and one of the GB visits you every week and reads to you. Sounds like a good idea. Since you don't know what writing is, perhaps you can't read?? I intend to write a book myself some day. I will name names, addresses, phone numbers, and tell the whole story. I'll try to get on radio, in the newspapers and maybe on TV. Then you'll have more proof than you can handle. Silent lambs reply was very well put. Maybe you are all three. Idiot, lazy and a JW. Sorry, that's redundant. You ask for proof? Do you ask the WT for proof for all the garbage and lies that it publishes and says on TV? I can't believe some of their spokesmen can keep a straight face when they say their lies. I wonder how well they would do on a lie-detector test?? AK (or signed Jeff, I couldn't tell) made another good point about book reading. Is the WT so afraid of being found out that it's now a sin to read a book against their beliefs at home alone? Read the book, "1984". It's just the same. The elders "couldn't take the chance"? I think it's too late for that. And when other people learn that this type of crap happens, the WT keeps shooting themselves in the foot. It's good that Bill posts some of the comments from the idiots. The WT has a "Questions from readers" section in their magazines, so this site now has a "Remarks from idiots" area. Equal air time, right? NN: More good points about useless persons. Most elders are uneducated, especially in counseling. They hurt children very badly when they try. Since many of them drive trucks, are janitors, or sell vacuum cleaners doot-to-door (maybe that's where the idea came from?), being on a committee or playing counselor with their little leather briefcases is the only time they have the power and prestige they'll never get at work. It's an ego trip for many, plain and simple. Do you really think they play Sims? My daughter has that game, it looks too hard for some elders I know. Well, this is long enough. I wanted to answer some of the brain donors who post here. I know some of you are involved in lawsuits and other things. Due to circumstances, I can't do some of those things. But I am writing a book and if I hear of one more person committing suicide over this, I'm going to the media. I don't fear God or the Devil. As I've said before, sometimes it's hard to figure out who is saying what to whom, based only on the heading. If I've offended any of the good people supporting this work by misunderstanding your opinion, then I'm sorry. If I've offended those who attack Bill, this site, or his work, then good.

ilidio Friday, May 7, 2004
@ 8:23 PM
Fred B
Fred B---yep, the system is just around the corner! I can see it coming, there it comes, and darn you missed it again. Oh well keep waiting! Oh, I see it again! There it comes! And getting closer! Sxxt, you missed it again. Oh well, keep dreaming bozo. He he he. Wake up man you are having a another dream, or should I say a nightmare?

Margaret Saturday, May 8, 2004
@ 1:18 AM
Condor and KL
I agree with KL that Condor could be an abuser - not necessarily the one who abused her, and that posting such comments would be upsetting. KL's case is going to trial and the last thing she needs is abuse from another abuser. BTW - how do you know that Condor is a JW? It could be someone else who is being prosecuted or is even in jail ( prisoners are allowed computers and Internet access) and who wants to upset victims. Please sl - show you care - do the right thing and delete such posts. The lambs are crying.

Sunday, May 9, 2004
@ 6:06 PM
To Condor
Condor, whom exactly are you addressing in your post? Silentlambs? An abuser? Are you a Jehovah's Witness addressing Silentlambs? If so, how far do you think you are going to get using such abhorrent language and horrible name calling? I thought that Christians are taught through the Bible to love their enemies. You didn't do such a good job of showing that love. Your post displayed only the ranting and raving of someone who is disturbed. By the way, if you have been the victim of abuse, and you are filled with rage, then you need professional help. That rage is understandable. You were violated. Terribly, tragically violalted. Your very humanity was violated. However, no matter how you look at it, no matter what provoked you to send such a post, you come across as someone who needs professional help. Please get help.

Sunday, May 9, 2004
@ 6:11 PM
To M.A.N.
I think it sounds like you have enough right now to go to the media with! If you are as eloquent in speech as you are in writing, wow, you could really say a mouthful! Go, M.A.N.!!!

Margaret Sunday, May 9, 2004
@ 9:40 PM
to M.A.N.
Your abusive post does not deserve a response. But to clear up one thing. A person only becomes an apostate if he/she agrees with the ideas of an apostate. In any case, as you say man, not only df people operate or post on this site and no one refuses to help others just because there may be one apostate or df person in their midst. eg I often called on a sister whose husband is df. If he answered the door I asked to see his wife. He would often stay in the living room with us. Should I not have visited her just because of her df husband? That would be unkind - to her.

ilidio Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 6:16 AM
To: Margaret
Margaret, are you so unintelligent not to understand what you just wrote? First of all, can you tell me what the word apostate means? According to the dictionary it says :::(((((( Apostate: One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.))))))) Do you see a problem with anyone doing that? If you are not a JW by birth (which most arent) that means you left some other religions faith to join the JW and therefore you should be also labeled as an APOSTATE, as you abandoned your previous religious faith to join your current one! Than, you go on to say that MANS abusive post does not deserve a response, yet you respond to it. What does that make you? A BIG HYPOCRITE AMONG THE AMONG THE OTHER 4,000.000 or is that 6,000.00? Just like the weeds in my garden you multiply so fast that is hard to keep track. To Man, dont let idiots like Margaret discourage you, you are my hero man. Please let those intelligent posts come. It is very refreshing for the soul to have you posting in here. We know that Margaret wont like it, but oh well, we know that the TRUTH HURTS. Keep them coming.

RWB Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 7:12 AM
You know why you do it?
Witness's know they aren't suppose to visit this site or other sites like it. So what they do is attack the site while visiting ... BUT... they search the site. That's okay!! What ever excuse they have to generate in their own minds to justify visiting this site is okay. Just keep reading and keep praying with sincerity... Surprises are in store for those with sincere honest hearts.

M.A.N. Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 8:38 AM
To Margaret
My post was not abusive, it told the truth. If you don't like it or believe what I said, ask the members who post here and see what they say. Secondly, if my post doesn't deserve a response, why did you make one? You are wrong about the definition of "apostate". The dictionary says, "One who has abandoned one's religious faith, political party, one's priciples, or one's cause." It says nothing about agreeing with any other person, including other "apostates". The WT brands people as "apostate" if they do not agree with WT beliefs. Even if WT beliefs are not in harmony with the Bible, and I choose the Bible, they call me an apostate because I don't agree with them. Since they think they are God's mouthpiece, they equate God with the WT. In the eyes of the WT, they and God are the same. I disagree. The fact that others disagree with the WT doesn't mean we are fellow apostates. I might disagree with other apostates who quit being JW's. But the WT lumps all of us in the same category. Their mistake. Finally, you are wrong about the DF situation. You are allowed to visit a sister whose husband is DF'd. He's probably allowed to greet you at the door as you ask to see his wife. But you are not to say anything to him after he lets you in the house. If he chooses to sit in his own living room while you and his wife talk, that's his business, it's his home. But if you talk with him, you are breaking the rules. I'll leave it at that. Others here or perhaps SL can verify this information. It is the latest I have. If I'm wrong about what you can say to the husband, such as "hi" or "nice weather", then I'm wrong and I apologize. But I don't believe the current WT rules allow you much leeway in having anything to do with him. Anyone care to elaborate? Thank you. One last point. Yes, it would be unkind to her not to visit her. But how unkind is it for abused children to be ignored and spend decades in therapy? How unkind is it when some of them commit suicide? How unkind is it when young people in their 20's who are DF'd, and their own parents won't speak with them, nor will any of their friends, go and commit suicide because they feel lost and alone? How unkind is it for a mother not to speak with her own child who she carried and raised? How unkind is it for older people who are DF'd to find their own children, who they sacrificed so much for, won't speak with them or let them see their grandchildren? In the words of Ray Franz: "What must it mean to a mother who has seen a baby daughter come forth from her own body, has nursed that baby, cared for it through illness, has trained the young girl through the formative years of life, living her problems with her, feeling her disappointments and sadnesses as if they were her own, shedding tears along with her tears-what must it mean to that mother to have her daughter, now an adult, suddenly reject her and do so simply because her mother sought to be true to her conscience and to God?" I don't know if you are married or a parent, but you better think about this. It may happen to you someday. My own daughter, from the age of nine years old to thirteen, was molested by a brother for 4 years. The elders knew he was a child molester and they knew he was visiting own home. Yet they told us nothing. We have spent over $50,000 in medical expenses for the family. My wife and daughter left me because I objected to the WT and its policies. Everyone is in therapy. My child has attempted suicide and is very ill. If she dies, I will personally order the execution of the elders who knew. They will die if I have to pull the trigger myself. (Yes, I'm Sicilian, you figure it out.) I don't blame my wife for leaving, she thought she was serving God. She is brain-washed, but I can't fix that. We all have our own reasons for joining this cult and/or quitting it. I also don't know your age or IQ but it is not sufficient to do battle with the real truth about the WT or the people here who know the real facts, not the BS you are given by the WT. There are people here who can back up everything I've said. To all who have suffered and agree with this post, please say something. This BS from the WTS being handed out by trolls who shouldn't be here needs to be corrected. Thank you.

DEH Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 12:12 PM
Apostate by what definition?
Hello, it's been some time since I posted here. Good to see the Guest Book in good health. It is a place where some purge, some discover, some find humility, and some vent their deepest heart felt pain. I have seen healing and hurt at the guest book. If you have an opinion would it not be best stated from a position of LOVE? Whether your a Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Mainstream Fundamentalist or Free Will practicing Christian you stand to gain the most by expressing what is in your mind and upon your heart by using Love. Let's look at this word "Apostate". To a Jehovah's Witness it means all who have left Gods protection and grace. To most who have left the Watchtower that word is a "abusive slander of your character". Many who have left the Watchtower have found real freedom in a "Personal relationship with God" one untattered by a "spiritual system" based on man's rules. They still have a great love for God and Christ, but no longer believe in many of the over 160,000 different spiritual systems of the world that make up organized religion. From birth to our last breath on this earth we are on a journey. Some are granted the gift of enlightenment that this journey includes, a "personal relationship with God and his gift of including you in helping spread his messages of Love and Salvation. If any of you have a differing point of view express it without hate, and without blame. You cant more Bee's (Win more souls) with Honey and Not vinegar (Hate). In Him DEH

NN Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 3:23 PM
To Margareth
Well, there is one thing you and other witnesses always seemed to forget: You do not have copyright on what is true and what is not true! Therefore You have no right what so ever to call anyone an "apostate", especially since your own "truth" has changed so very much during your history - and I do not mean the propagandistic version in the so called JV book but the real, unedited history that they never tells you - In reality I guess most witnesses could be labelled as apostates if one would compare their beliefs to the original teachings of Russel. And anyway in protecting abusers you prove yourselves to be apostates from the teachings of the Bible. It was because I did not want to become an apostate to the Bible that I choosed to leave this rotten organisation.

M.A.N. Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 7:08 PM
to ilidio
Thanks very much, you made my day. I submitted a post earlier that hasn't been put on the board yet and it has the exact definition of apostate that you quoted. We must have the same dictionary. Fabulous point about a previous religion. I was raised a Catholic, then became an atheist, then an agnostic, then JW, now agnostic. To clear up one point before anyone asks, I was taught in college that an atheist could prove that there was no God, an agnostic isn't sure one way or another because there isn't enough proof. This might be wrong, but that was what the Professor said. Anyway, I'm a Catholic apostate. So the WT should have "found" me when I quit the Catholic Church around the age of 16 or so and DF'd me for being an "apostate". Then I could never have been allowed to walk into a K. Hall at the age of 27 and be greeted, "love bombed", and accepted with open arms. Very good point. Excellent. And yes, Margaret doesn't know very much. I can't resist using my tried and true remark for her, "The proctologist called, they found your head."

M.A.N. Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 8:40 PM
to the anonymous people
Some of you have complimented me or said encouraging things and didn't put a name on your post. I just wanted to thank all of you, even though I don't have a nickname or initials to refer to you by. I appreciate the comments. I'm not going anywhere. Not until someone on the GB goes on live TV and apologizes on behalf of the WT. Since that has the same chance of happening as me winning $100 million in the lottery next week, I guess I'll be here for a long time. My family is gone. I'll post also for revenge for their being gone. They're spending time away from me, so I'll spend time on the board. An eye for an eye. Now where did I read that?.....

mp Monday, May 10, 2004
@ 10:25 PM
to M.A.N.
You are so right, considering the true definition of the word apostate, at least 98 percent of JWs are apostate from other religions, but they only know the meaning of the word as taught by the WT. However, it is a commendable thing to have enough courage and good sense to turn away from teachings that have proven over and over again to be untrue. Regarding your comment about the mother having been through all the traumas of raising her children, and then have them reject her, that really hit a note with me. My case was different from that, however, my two children rejected the religion as they were growing up and that was a terrible disappointment to me, but I could never turn my back on my children just because they refused to be good Witnesses. When I finally came to the realization that all the things I had believed all my life, were simply not true, I was very grateful that they never did believe it and so now instead of rejecting me, they are just happy that I have been liberated at last. I have not been disfellowshipped, I just quit being a Witness. If that makes me an apostate, so be it, but I have not lost my faith and love for Jehovah or Jesus. I have a stronger relationship with Them now than I ever did when I was an active Witness.

RWB Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 6:54 AM
Where's the gentleness and respect?
As a resent visitor I couldn't help but notice the emotion on this site. Please be aware that people like me want to hear all sides but when you... write a book... as a response it comes across as a filibuster. If you all could show each other some love and keep your answers respectful and readable it would go a long way towards getting at the truth. Just my opinion for what it is worth?

AK Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 7:48 AM
M.A.N.'s Monday Post
Yes, all you have stated is true to my best knowledge, and I have been a witness for over 30 years (now we are faded out, but never DF'd). I feel for your pain in the terrible ordeals that your family was put thru. I marvel that these things continue to go on in the 21st Century. I hope that things will improve for you soon. We have seen just how cruel this organization can be in it's so called protectionist mode! My wife and I have lead model lives, mostly molded by the Bible's priciples (that is not to say we are perfect, but we have no blemishes on our conduct to detract from God or the organization for that matter), and yet due to our voicing concerns about the obvious lack of love among those in the congregation, we have been completely cut off by shunning. I mean completely! Witnesses will not speak to us on the street, no one has called at our home in months and months, an elder that was one of my closest friends will not return emails, ect. Rather than attempting to 'save' us, they have boxed us off as if we are wicked. I have heard rumors that I have been labeled an 'apostate', but such charges have never been officially leveled. I have contacted every elder in the congregation at one time or another and asked the reasons, but all I get is a denial that we are being shunned. (The reason is that they must deny it unless we have been officially reprimanded to avoid a lawsuit for slander against the elders -who obviously have given the secret shunning orders.) This sort of 'hateful act' must be very common based on what I have seen here and other places. It is the mark of a paranoid organization. If there are skeletons in the closet (and there are), the organization does not want the closet opened to view! There were two reasons that my dear wife and I had to leave the comfort of 30+ years of 'the truth'. 1- This problem of child abuse, and the obvious ignorance on the part of the GB to address it in any serious way. 2- Actual inspection of just what this organization has taught over the last century, has made it clear that Russell had absolutely nothing right at the time that the organization states that Jesus chose him to be used as the 'faithful servant'. (Actually, these two matters will never be dealt with straight up by the Watchtower organization. Their appoach in both is to say a few soothing words in a WT or a KM that will convince the brothers that things are getting done behind the scenes, tell them to quit worrying about it and let the Mother Ship handle it. OR issue some rewritten history. This stalls any rebellion from within, and gives the local elders ammunition to excecute any who see thru the sham. Also, laying the blame at the feet of the 'apostates' makes any intelligent discussion of the matter within the organization a reason to suspect those individual of apostasy. So if they want to stay in, they shut up!)I ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO THE WTBTS - hold an open conference with reps from SL and SNAP and victims of child-rape from within the organization. No reprissals. Let witnesses and x- witnesses speak openly of this issue and suggested solutions. Recant and reinstate all victims who have been re-victimized due to speaking out in their pain! Form an unbiased and diverse council that will make rec's based on the real life problems that arise from this issue (and not the fantasy land that the Governing Body resides in). For the matter of history of the organization I challenge them as so; release a Watchtower CD that includes all the society pubs back to the founding of the Watchtower magazine. Let the brothers see for themselves if the Lord felt a need to use them due to the 'truth' that they had and no one else did!! Let's see if either of these things will ever happen!!!!! Jeff

ilidio Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 8:00 AM
MAN
I think I am both a catholic apostate (went to a seminary in Fatima, Portugal at the age of 10 where I studied to become a catholic priest, after many years realized it was not for me) and a JW apostate as I left both.. JWs do think that they invented the word APOSTATE but they also think that they invented the wheel, so, nothing they say surprises me anymore. MA, you are correct an AGNOSTIC does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one can not know for certain whether or not they exist. ATHEIST, on the other hand is one who denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent being. One thing I can state for a fact, the watchtower ORG has created many atheists, after leaving the JW one sort of loses his/her faith in God.

TM Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 11:23 AM
Watchtower writes too much, listens to little.
apostate: n. a person who abandons his religion, party, cause, etc. (Collins English Dictionary) apostate: n. a person who completely forsakes his religion, faith, political party, or principles. (Gage Canadian Dictionary) Here we have the true meanings of "apostate". Sorry Watchtower but it does not mean just a person who left your 120 year old group based in Brookland New York. So why does the Watchtower go to such great lengths to promote this catchword with their own limited meaning? Let's let them answer this question from the June 22, Awake. "Some people insut those who disagree with them by questioning character of motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name- caller's strategy has worked." The article goes on to say: "The Institude for Propaganda Analysis notes that 'bad names have played a tremendously powerful role in the history of the world and in our own individual development. They have ruined reputations,...sent [people] to prison cells, and made men mad enough to enter battle and slaughter their fellowmen'."

TM Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 12:07 PM
Christendom...what does it mean?
Another smear word the Watchtower likes to use is Christendom. They present the word as if they are seperate from it. But what does the dictionary say it means?_______ Christendom: 1. Christian countries; the Christian part of the world. 2. all Christians._______So is it safe to say that the Watchtower is not Christian according to them? Yes if you use the true meaning of the word. No if you give the word Christendom a new meaning like they have. I'll trust the distinguished group of linguists for my information vs. some unknown that dreams up Watcthower propaganda in Brooklyn New York.

NN Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 2:47 PM
To RWB
The hypochrasy of your adress makes me wonder if you are not a witness. Anyhow I can just answer you that if you do not understand that this is issues that craves a strong language you are free NOT to brows on this site. Actually your kind of person is just too common in society: people who do not want painful and hard-to-deal with issues as abuse to be talked of at all because is it "not very nice". Well I have a surprise for You: Life is not very nice, and never has been! And what this corrupt organization has done against its members - and the true God who's good name they are dragging in the dirt - is just awful and it certainly craves strong language!

DEH Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 4:39 PM
I will shun no one
Truth-I am an ex JW of over nine years now. I was properly shunned by all when I left. Today if I see many of the witnesses in a group for their own safety sake and fear they will pretend to shun me but the truth is every single one of them has crossed my path over the last nine years and has spoken to me when they have been by themselves, reminissed, talked about family, and we departed on speaking terms. I disassociated myself from the Watchtower completely, but I will NEVER SHUN anyone no matter what their beliefs. To each who post here, if you want, I will be your friend, so you can say at least with me you are never shunned. In Him DEH

M.A.N. Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 5:47 PM
To RWB
I think NN said it very well but I have something to add. I assume you must have me in mind for "writing a book" or "filibustering". So what. I have a lot to say, because a lot was done to my family and I've lost a lot. Can we be nice? Sure, with those who are fair and honest. The WT sneaks who come here (and I say sneak because they are not supposed to be here, if you doubt it, call Bethel and tell them you post here and see what they say) are not interested in the truth about child abuse and how we have suffered. They come here and lie about us and what the Society has done. I won't brag anymore on this site since some were offended, but suffice it to say that you will lose any argument you start with me and/or any other person on this board who knows the facts. I was a JW for over 25 years, a book study conductor, Theo. school counselor, etc. I have read virtually all of the books the WT ever printed. I own a copy of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures. You cannot imagine the pain of seeing your 9 year old daughter violated for 4 years and finally getting the courage to tell her parents, only to see her called a liar and a whore by other JW's at the hall. I have a temper, I'm the first to admit it. I don't give a damn about the law or morality. This experience made me believe in no god. I'm now an agnostic again and I'll damn well stay there for the rest of my life. There are others here who just concentrate on Jehovah and Jesus, there are some who quit all spiritual activity. It's not my place to judge them, the issue is not what they believe in. The issue is the WT's handling of child abuse. Where the hell are your brains?? Don't you read anything on this site??? There are at least 2 dozen people alive today because I didn't want to go to jail and deprive my child of a father. When a person gets that angry, you better believe what NN told you that there is emotion involved here. My child lost her innocence, her little girl dreams, her princess teen years and is now a mentally ill 18 year old and could die from her physical problems due to the abuse. This is not kindergarten stuff we're playing with. I hope Europe throws the WT out on its ass. And I hope this country does the same. They are a criminal organization and I wish the planes had missed the twin towers and hit Bethel.

M.A.N. Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 6:39 PM
To RWB
Since you don't like "books", I'll make several small posts. You mentioned "if we could show each other love". We do show each other love, each other being those who have suffered at the hands of the WT. If you or anyone else is here to defend the WT, then you are not a part of "we", or "each other". "We" don't like people making stupid comments. I think most of the answers here are respectful, in fact some are more respectful than some of the idiots who post here deserve to receive. Many are not here for "answers", they are here to call us names and say we are liars and against God. I think it takes a hell of a lot of courage to make an emotional break with a religion that you've given your soul, heart, mind, time, effort, and MONEY to for decades, only to find out they are frauds and deny it when you prove it. And then we have to suffer being DF'd for telling the truth. I thought the WT's main bitch was "The Truth"? They wouldn't recognize the truth if it kicked them in the ass. Actually, that would be the nearest things would come to making contact with their brains. I just read the letter about Denmark. That's enough to make me puke. You want gentleness? For whom, may I ask? For the abusers?? For the idiots who come here and spread lies about the WT being so holy to the point that their posts have to be deleted by SL for being misleading to the point of being slander against US? WE are telling the truth. The WT is not. Last point. You want "readable"? What post can't you "read"? You seem to speak English, so what's your problem?? NN said it very well. Life is not nice. The WT's lies are not "nice". The abusers are not "nice". If you want "nice", go turn on your TV and watch Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street.

AK Tuesday, May 11, 2004
@ 9:03 PM
TM's Comment Right On!
You hit it right on the head! The June Wt article you sight says it all. I find it interesting that the Society seems so interested in the subject to start with! Wonder why? Also interesting that they are so familiar with an organization named 'The Organization for Propaganda Analysis'! How appropriate!!!!!! Jeff

AK Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 8:48 AM
Further on TK's observations
If any doubt that this 'labeling' is a deeply seated tactic of the WTBTS, just think of all the labels we have been taught over the years, then think of the message that those labels bring to your mind without thinking about them; (Really, we have been taught to judge everyone in this way and just hide the word 'judging' by it!) ; Elders; Ministerial Servants; Pioneers; Bethelites; Circuit overseers; District Overseers; Missionary; Special Pioneer; Annointed; Other sheep; worldly; apostate; religious; church member; Christendom; Babylon the Great; clergy; publisher; inactive; irregular; attends the memorial; weak; wicked; materialistic; sheep; goatlike one; politician; disfellowshipped person; disassociated one; former witness; former elder ect; vis a vis!!! We have been turned into self-righteous judgementalist, and don't even know it! That is a pretty good job of progaganda ! Jeff

ZX Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 11:27 AM
MAN
You say ", was a JW for over 25 years, a book study conductor, Theo. school counselor, etc. I have read virtually all of the books the WT ever printed. I own a copy of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures" This was very funny, perhaps we are twins, I was also the same as you, I have also lived with newledege about bad things as I new some beloved have done, and when I finally told this, what happend well the sinner have to step down fron position as elder,nothing more,I have to compare this with the big sin that is to sleep over in a apartment together with another person not of the same sex, full restrictions was the punishment, can you understand this nightmare, and what can I say to the young one that has to deal widh this hard punishment, despite he have done nothing wrong, it dont matter say the elders, you was there and it is enough, but when it comes to sex abuse suddenly you must have two independent wittneses to judge, why must you not have the same in the other example i gave, unbelieveable. This have made me very angry and confused,I can not understand why the society are so tuff to young ones and so easy to the elders that do very nasty things,thanks for this site so we can tell whats happend among our religion. I have been JW for over 40 years and elder for over 20, but this is more than I can take. Hope Jehovah will clean up the bad influens as have come in to the top at least it is the only way out as I see it.

Cindi Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 11:38 AM
Even More Pain
The day I say thank you to silentlambs is the same day I'll say thank you to the person who raped me.

NN Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 11:52 AM
To DEH
Well isn't that typical! But your comment makes me a bit worried. You talk as if what the witnesses do actually matters, when it don't. You must realize that they have no right what so ever to shun anyone!!!! (and actually the shunning procedure is just a way of keeping folks in and controled) I think one should be very discerning about allowing that behavior from witnesses. If it is like You want to keep contact with some of them because you care - then it is ok. But if it is only something that you do to comply with their rules and caracteristic hypocritical behaviour then it is totaly wrong! There are as I have come to understand a lot of witnesses that have two sets of behaviour and conscience, like a lot of other religious, and it is not totaly impossible that those people that shun you are in fact much worser sinner than you have ever been, or will be. So You mind not to trample on your own integrity just to let them play their little game!

SR Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 1:35 PM
You all are stupid!
If you all were really Jehovah's Witnesses to begin with you would know what you all are doing is wrong. This world has put all of this stupid stuff in you head and made you think this. I just hope you all know how bad you all are hurting Jehovah and he will pay you all back. People like you all should think about the message you all are send to other people. But Jehovah will have the last word in this arguement.

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 3:57 PM
To ZX
My best friend, a brother, who taught me much of what I now know about being a computer network engineer specialist, was in the same situation. (We must be twins.) He was engaged to a women after his third wife left him. His first died, I think, the second left him the day he first went out in service, the third committed adultery with an old boyfriend. He visited her alone in her apartment. That probably wouldn't look good during the day, but wouldn't be a crime. But he made the mistake of sitting in the living room talking on the couch until 5 am in the morning. They were in love and just sat and talked. I KNOW they did nothing, I never saw a man love Jehovah so much. The congregation put him on reproof, he was removed from being a Ministerial Servant and book study conductor, and most of the congregation wouldn't speak to him and treated him like garbage. He is 6 feet 4 inches and is an arm wrestling champion and could have crushed any of them, but he is a gentle giant. He tried to work with the elders, and one sanctimonious jackass told him right to his face, "I see no sign of any spiritual value in you at all." He left the hall in tears. He was never used again and a year later when his mother died and he inherited a good amount of money, he moved from the East Coast here all the way to Hawaii. I'm a Psychology major and plan to be a therapist and get my Doctorate. This poor man is still emotionally scarred from what happened. What does it say when people have to move to other halls because certain congregations are just a bunch of a**holes?? I've seen congregations all think alike, following the lead of a few bullying elders who need to be taken outside and beaten. Sorry, but I just read the new letter from Denmark. I swear, I bet the Danish people are ready to fire bomb kingdom halls. You made an excellent point that I hadn't thought about. If both this brother and his wife-to-be said they didn't do anything, then where are the two witnesses needed to condemn them?? NO ONE witnessed any improper conduct, because there wasn't any. Yet one witness (the victim) is not enough to go after a child abuser. Does anyone else see that crap reasoning here?? I've seen elders cover for each other all the time. It's like an elite group of criminals. I want no part of it. I've already drafted a DA letter and one phrase I used was that "I didn't want to sully (or dirty) my good name by being associated with people who are guilty of the crimes that you are." It's pretty sad when a person dirties his name if he tries to serve god. I thought serving god was supposed to make your name better. What hypocrites!!

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 3:58 PM
To Cindi
Can you please clarify your meaning? Thank you.

DEH Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 4:01 PM
Hopefully Love will WIN out!
I speak to any JWs who talk to me out of a position of LOVE. I hope that when they see that my life is prospering, and I am happy, and I am growing and thriving, and the world is NOT falling apart around me that obviously God has not abandoned me then perhaps the grass will "be in their eyes greener away from the WT". It is the same way I would treat anyone I communicate with. It is a common respect I show in doing to all the way I would wish to be treated. It is "loving" your neighbor even when it may not be deserved. It is speaking a kind word even in the face of wrath. While I like everyone else is far from perfect I will take a first step to speak in kindness. It doesnt matter to me what race, religion, creed, or color you are. God made you and that is good enough for me. Love is that "universal" language that most recognize and it moves more mountains than not. In Him DEH

M.A.N. Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 4:14 PM
To SR
Who exactly are you calling "stupid"? I hope you don't mean the people here who support this good work and want to help abused people. Why don't you clarify your position? And please don't say "you all" anymore, ok? Thanks.

JJ Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 5:02 PM
CAN A JW PLEASE ANSWER THIS?
SR, MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER THIS FOR ME! WHY IS IT OK FOR JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO PROSELYTIZE FROM DOOR TO DOOR AND SHOUT FROM THE ROOF TOPS THEIR OPINION ON ALL THE OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD (NAMELY THAT ALL RELIGIONS ARE FALSE AND HAVE EVIL INTENT TO MISLEAD THE NATIONS AND ARE A TOOL OF SATAN), BUT WHEN A PERSON SAYS THAT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE WRONG OR A TOOL OF SATAN AND FALSE, DO YOU GUYS (JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES) GET SO OFFENDED? WHY IS IT OK FOR YOU JW'S TO USE THE CATHOLIC CHILD MOLESTING SCANDAL AS A TOOL IN YOUR MINISTRY AND SUPPORT FOR YOU OPINONS ON THE HIPOCRASY OF OTHER RELIGIONS, BUT IT IS NOT OK FOR SILENTLAMBS TO USE THE WELL DOCUMENTED JW CHILD MOLESTING SCANDAL TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR GOAL OF PROTECTING CHILDREN? THE TRUTH HURTS, KARMA, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND! ANSWER, PLEASE, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR A JW'S PERSPECTIVE!

JJ Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 5:17 PM
TO ALL THOSE WHO ARN'T OR HAVE NEVER BEEN A BAPTISED JW!
SR'S COMMENTS ARE JUST A FRACTION OF THE HATE AND ILL-WILL JW'S DIRECT TOWARDS ANYONE WHO GOES AGAINST OR DISAGREES WITH ANY WATCHTOWER TEACHING OR AUTHORITY IN THEIR ORGANIZATION? THIS IS JUST A FRACTION OF THE SOCIALISTIC PRESSURES AND HATE THAT JW'S DIRECT TO SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ABUSED WITH IN THE JW ORGANIZATION THAT STANDS UP FOR THEMSELVES AGAINST THE WATCHTOWER AND ELDER AUTHORITY. THANK YOU SILENTLAMBS FOR ALLOWING SOME OF THESE OFFENSIVE COMMENTS BY JW'S TO POST TO FURTHER THE PROTECTION OF CHILDREN BY ALLOWING JW'S TO SHOW THEIR TRUE COLORS WHEN PEOPLE ARE HURT AND ABUSED IN THE JW RELIGION.

Cheri Romero Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 6:27 PM
To M.A.N.
I have read your posts since you first started posting them and today I read your most recent ones. Let me say that you have the same kind of anger that I have for the Organization. You have the same emotion, the same level of pain and even some of the same words. I too always say that I so wish those planes had just flown a little distance away and slammed into the WBTS. I have a sister that is mentally ill to the point that she does not remember any of her family including her kids. She has mutiple personalitys and she is a paranoid sckitz???? (cant spell it). She wanders the streets of Lake Tahoe talking to trees and rocking back and forth. All of this is a direct result of her abuse as a child (from JW elder). I have 4 siblings and ALL of us were victims. Not all of us were survivors though. I have 27 nieces and nephews and at least half of them were victims and only one in the whole damned family went to the police. That would be me. I went at the age of 14 to the elders to tell them about my step-father molesting me and about my mother beating me. They didnt believe me. So I went to a teacher at school. She took me to the police. I was DF at 14 for being sexually molested by my step-father and for "bringing reproach on the name of Jehovah". I would make it my life's mission to combat this Organization if I had the funds to do so. (So they better hope I dont win the lottery or come into an inheritance) MAN, I deeply feel your pain and anger because I have it too. Keep up the great posts and dont EVER let any moron on here, (THAT IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE ON HERE) stop you from your cause here. THANK YOU

Cheri Romero Wednesday, May 12, 2004
@ 6:43 PM
To Margaret
Woman, you are sounding about as dumb as a rock!!! It is people like you who make me want to vomit. You may as well take your head, bend over and insert it up your... you know where and keep it there rather than face the REAL deal. WE ARE NOT APOSTATES!!! WE ARE SURVIVORS OF DEEDS DONE THAT WERE COVERED UP BY A RELIGION THAT IS WORST THAN ORGANIZED CRIME!!!! Go away Margaret because you make me want to get violent and break my own belongings! MAN is so right in everything he says and if he sounds abusive....that's your Goddamned problem.

ilidio Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 6:13 AM
Stupid? Really, are the stupid here?
Your brainless SR, who do you think is hurting Jehovah? Us by pointing the finger at the abusers and the ones who protect them or the rotten apples in the Org that continues abusing the children in a safe haven with the help of their pals who cover it all up??? You right about one thing though, Jehovah will have the last word in this argument. I bet my life on it that his last word is going to be very different from your version. All the abusers and supporters will burn in gehena. Will you stand up and be counted a righteous one? Or are you a supporter of the atrocities committed by the rotten apples? Either you are with me or against me? Which one? You can not serve two masters, can you? Make your decision while you still can! Remember, by your ideology the end is just around the corner? So, what is it going to be SR?????

NN Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 8:13 AM
To SR - Poor thing!
I sens a lot of fear in your address, well quite a lot of witnesses are afraid of everything from demons to God, but just abusing truth tellers won't help you at all.

M.A.N. Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 8:46 AM
To Cheri Romero
I am so sorry for what you've been through. I tried to imagine your pain by taking my own and multiplying it by several hundred. I just couldn't do it. I did study paranoid schizophrenia in college in a course called "Abnormal Psychology". I had to view pictures, videos, and write essays. I almost dropped the textbook and cried several times during this time, and I didn't even know these people, not that it mattered. Most of them were old or had other problems and their condition wasn't due to abuse. It's bad enough to acquire a disorder due to bad luck or genetics, but to have it inflicted on a child from the outside is a heinous crime. If a flower gets old and dies, those things happen. But for someone to stomp through a garden and destroy everything in sight just for the pleasure of doing it, merits the death penalty, in my book. (I hope I haven't given anyone the idea I don't care about those who just happen to be sick on their own. I think everyone knows what I'm trying to say. Many have complimented me on my writing eloquence, but I'm not perfect. I take medication to keep from killing myself and the others I blame, and it affects my mood and clarity at times.) In your situation, I can't believe that so many people could be hurt by just one person, but look what Hitler did. I've been to Lake Tahoe, it is beautiful, and should have been for your sister. If it is any consolation, if I ever found the committee who DF'd you, you KNOW you would get justice. It is against the law to do ANYTHING to a person for reporting abuse. I'm warning the WT and any individuals who agree with their policy, you WILL answer someday for what you've done. If there is a God, he does NOT approve of the WT. Any of you JW's here who think the Society is right are risking your lives. "With the judgment you....." And SL has reminded us about the "millstone" from stumbling the little ones. I hope I live long enough to see the WT destroyed and Bethel sold off for scrap. I do buy lottery tickets, and that's exactly where the money is going if I win. The only reason I haven't gone public is my child's privacy. If anything ever happens to her, I will "unleash Hell", in the words of Russell Crowe in the movie "Gladiator". No moron will ever stop me.

M.A.N. Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 8:53 AM
To Cheri Romero
I just read your second post. Way to go! I assume you saw my "proctologist" comment. I never saw a more appropriate way to describe these people. If ignorance is bliss, then Margaret is in seventh heaven. (Oh, and please don't insult rocks by comparing them to her IQ!! LOL) I love your comment about organized crime. I'd rather be part of that than covering up child abuse. As some may have guessed, I have more than a passing interest in "The Godfather". Even they would have murdered anyone who was guilty of child abuse. In prison, if it's discovered that a man is there for child abuse, he is often raped and killed. Even criminals have standards better than the WT.

M.A.N. Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 8:57 AM
To ilidio
I couldn't have said it better. I will never understand, in this age of technology, the Internet, free speech, etc., how human beings can be so absolutely brain-dead. Think about it: people like SR vote, drive, and worst of all, they reproduce.

silentlambs Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 11:03 AM
Can you help?
Media interview in New York next week We are going to be in New York next week visiting with some media. We would like to invite anyone that would like to speak out on abuse in the New York area to contact silentlambs. We think this will be a great opportunity to help others see the extent of the abuse problem in the JW organization. If you would like to assist please contact silentlambs at info@silentlambs.org as soon as possible. silentlambs

M.A.N. Thursday, May 13, 2004
@ 7:44 PM
To Cheri Romero
I'd like to get in touch with you without the WT spies. Let's see if we can devise a method that is anonymous. Thanks.

RWB Friday, May 14, 2004
@ 6:59 AM
RAPED BY MY JEHOVAH-FATHER
RAPED BY MY JEHOVAH-FATHER I was raised as a JW. My Mom was a witness for many years. I left long before my Mother did and my Mother ended up being disfellowshipped because she listened to me as I explained some things to my Mom that she didn't know about early witness doctrine. Man that is so sad that an elder can rape his own Daughter and remain a witness while others that do as the Bible says in Proverbs ( search out your ways and test them) are disfellowshipped. I'm going to take a shower now. I feel that dirty just reading about that kind of abuse going unpunished.

Cindi Friday, May 14, 2004
@ 10:22 AM
To M.A.N.
There really is nothing to clarify. The statement speaks for itself. My dignity was stripped once, and I will not be stripped again by an organization that has little to offer except hatred of the Governing Body. The Christ told us there would be a "Faithful and Discreet Slave", and that he would trust that slave with all of his belongings. Are you so blind that you do not see, as does the Christ, that he does so with full knowledge of its imperfections and with absolute knowledge of the occurrence of the very actions for which it stands condemned by this site?

M.A.N. Friday, May 14, 2004
@ 1:44 PM
To Cindi
First, I'm sorry for what befell you. I don't know the circumstances, particularly if it was associated with a JW and/or a cover-up. This site, although detesting all sexual abuse, is trying to change how the WT handles child abuse. SL, and everyone here, I'm sure, regrets your being raped. This site has a lot to offer if you would be objective and fair. First of all, many of us have anger and pain because we have suffered needlessly from the "imperfections" in the WT, that you seem to want to make us all forgive them for. So you are obligated to forgive us our "imperfections" when we vent and complain, since no one is perfect. If they should be forgiven, so should we. This site has a lot to offer in the way of comfort, information, and a place to work out your pain. I will be a therapist someday, and this process is necessary to heal. We don't hate the GB, we hate would they do, which is a more Christian attitude than they feel toward us. When a person knows he is doing wrong, or refuses to hear that he's doing wrong, then "there is no sacrifice for sins" left to him. They know what they are doing. If they changed and apologized to all the victims and reinstated all the people who have been DF'd, and paid all medical, legal, and therapy costs for all victims, then I'm sure this site will be very pleased and might get off their backs. But they have not done that, and you know as well as I do that there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that they ever will. The WT is starting to be as arrogant as some of the terrorist groups in the world today. "We'll die before we apologize, our cause is right! Praise Jehovah! Praise the WT!" Sound familiar? It should, if you follow the news. They are the apostates, because they have left true "truth". Their arrogance is appalling, considering their lack of education, knowledge, experience, and intelligence. The IQ's of the people here are higher than those at Bethel. And the education is higher. Only 4.9% of JW's graduate college. For Jews, it's 50%. Other religions are in between. JW's have up to 4 times more cases of mental illness than the population in general. These facts should tell you something. How can I take seriously a group of people who change their minds every other week, all the time insisting they are the only truth? It would be comical if it weren't so serious and hadn't hurt so many people, and so badly, with some of them dying needlessly in order to follow the GB and its false teachings. One book puts the definition of this religion as this: "The truth is defined as the current teachings of the Governing Body which largely consist of denying their own past teachings and condemning views that are held by other groups that the Governing Body will someday adopt as their "new light" and "the truth"." I think this is fair, accurate, and quite ironic, along with being funny. Trust this slave with my belongings? I hardly think so. If they constantly "lose" the truth, they would lose my belongings as well. I am not the blind one here, dear. It is you who are blind. "There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see." Think about that. Of course, Jesus knows what the GB is doing and allowing. And we all know he doesn't like child abuse. But our point is that the GB is not caring for Jesus' belongings when they condone certain things and handle them the way they do. That's the whole point of this site. Covering up abuse is not an "imperfection". It's criminal negligence and conspiracy, both being crimes. But the WT thinks it's above the law, since they feel the universe belongs to them, so they can do what they want with it. Not so. They will answer for what they are doing. Maybe the GB is the "evil slave" that the Bible warned about, for all you know. I suggest you get your facts straight.

Cheri Romero Friday, May 14, 2004
@ 2:53 PM
To M.A.N
Thank you so much for your comments and your concern. You know? I had really forgiven my mother for her child abuse and her transgressions when I was a child, (i.e. drunk driving, drunk beatings, drunk in bed with her best friends-a couple who were witnesses also), and I had made peace with her before she died. But then I found this site o little over a year ago and went into shock while I had all my memories return. Now I am angered at her to the point of hatred. She has been dead for over 10 years and I am angry in the extreme. I too had been suicidal for most of my life. Started trying to take my life at the age of 7 and finally stopped trying at the age of 27. The last time I tried to take my life, I had 3 children in the house and my thoughts were that "someone will find them and they will be fine". Thank God that I found a program that DID lead me to God and to the knowledge that I cannot take my own life. I no longer have that demon to battle but I do have others. I know exactly how you feel. I DO feel the same way. Maybe we can implement a plan to get each others personal info through Bill Bowen. I have met him by phone on a couple occasions and we email occasionally too. I am sure he would be happy to set us up in that way. Let me know what you think. You are a man who is meant to be here. You are meant to be a LOUD voice for this cause. I am too. And I am telling you, I am a really LOUD voice also. I know this to be true. Keep up the screaming. Scream it to the rooftops and we will be a part of the coming changes that will help the remaining children who are victims of those monsters. By the way, my favorite saying is that Organized religion is worst than organized crime because if you rape one of the mob's children? They will cut off your balls and feed you to the fish. If given a choice between the two organizations? I would instantly choose the mob. :)

Cheri Romero Friday, May 14, 2004
@ 3:03 PM
Man
Please dont downsize your pain. I am quite sure that your pain is equally as large as mine. Mine was long ago and it only comes in waves now. And the waves always recede again so I will be aok. The ones I feel for are my sister and the other children who are still stuck in that vortex of pain and sexual anguish. I have nightmares about them. I just want to get them out or get the Governing Body wiped out and a new one installed. Or.....more planes to hit the right building???? :) JK but not really

ilidio Friday, May 14, 2004
@ 8:55 PM
To Cindy.
CINDY, dismantling the Watchtower claim that it is the faithful and discreet slave is easy. All we need to do is look at the track record of the Watchtower as an organization and see if it has been faithful. Consider the following false prophecies made by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society over the years. ---1899 "...the battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." (The Time Is at Hand, page 101 - 1908 edition). ---1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.)--- 1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." (The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.) ---1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (The Watchtower, PAGE 106 4/1/23.) --- 1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." (Vindication, page 338.) --1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." (The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.) -- - 1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?...Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." (Awake, 10/8/68.) The previous false prophecies of the Watchtower organization demonstrate that it is lacking God's truths. Now I question,((((( Who Really Is The Faithful and Discreet Slave ????))))) WT ORG??? NOT&&. UNFAITHFUL DISCREET SLAVE WOULD BE A MORE APPROPRIATE NAME!!!!

NN Saturday, May 15, 2004
@ 4:06 AM
About Danish
First I think it is quit interesting to note the secrecy, like you must not copy this...I think they do that not for fear or the text getting out - it is quite noncommittal - but to make the elders feel that this is really great stuff, when in reality it is not. First this "two witness policy" is wrong since we have a precedence in the Mosaic law that when someone is raped on an isolated location no witnesses was needed, Deuteronomy 22:25. And then of course all those nice words is only applicable when there is a confirmed case of abuse - which as we have seen there almost never is among these people - no matter what the victim says.

CG Saturday, May 15, 2004
@ 11:14 AM

I just went back through months and months of entries in the guestbook. It has really given me insight into my own state of mind as a result of being branded an apostate. I was a jw for 22 yrs and suffered from bouts of depression. (I never had depression prior to that) When I finally left the group and went through the hell of losing all my friends, my relationship with my daughter and nearly lost my marriage, I ended up with a mental collapse that put me in the hospital for 2 weeks. The trauma from it all was too great to handle. At the present moment I am experiencing depression once again. Reading the guest book has made me realize that even after 7 years of leaving the WTS, I am still suffering from the trauma of being brainwashed by a powerful cult that destroys lives and families. My husband who is an alcoholic and has sexually abused my own two daughters remains a ministerial servant in good standing. I want to vomit at the thought of how he is held in high esteem for his character and admired for his fortitude to remain married to an "apostate". None of them would ever believe the moral filth that has been his lifestyle. The "good ole boys" club is alive and well in the WTS.--------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Please email us at info@silentlambs.org we might have some helpful suggestions.

QB Saturday, May 15, 2004
@ 4:23 PM
Go!! SilentLambs Denmark Go!!
Congratulations and kudos to the silenatlambs of Denmark who have finally accomplished what no one has been able to do since 1967:.... In case of abuse steps must immediately be taken to protect the child against additional abuse. The parents, the victim or the elders must immediately take contact with a doctor or the Social Authorities....The elders must not interrogate the child to find out what has happened. This is something the parents must do in cooperation with doctors or the authorities...If extraordinary circumstances dictate that a child abuser is not expelled Public Reproof will be offered in the congregation so families with children will be alerted....Hats off to the Danish who care about their children, MUAHH!!!

the mole Saturday, May 15, 2004
@ 5:08 PM
time
***the mole*** has time passed so much that if one active witness could say that the abuse allegations have wained and to move on? This is what was said to me during casual conversation with a friend of mine who still attends meetings because of his wife.........I must say that even if ignorance were not a factor, what would be the date to fear for the time of the end predicted by the organization? By what measure do we identify this doomsday, julian or the gregorian calander? Must we date it from Christ's birth or death? Since the ancients had no concept of zero how does change the Jehovah's Witness thoughts of the 1914 date? For a thousand years people have never tired of imposing a human perception of a diety and a time of the end. How many religions have come and gone imposing their evil upon us and killing those who spoke against their wrongs? In another hundred years when all of us and our generations tire of the predictions the organization has suggested, will this group last? Back to my friends comment. Was the error by the org so trivial it was now time to move on? How many times must we move on? In 1000 A.D the church scared everyone into a frenzy that christ was coming and all would die? how many cultures and people were killed during this conversion to christianity? Has anything changed? Those who fall prey to untruth and fail to wake up lost not only their time but true happiness. Love is what christ taught and forgiveness, not during some destruction of mankind but now is what he teached. Does any of you have this love? Does the org give this love? Time will destroy the organization because unconditional love has left them and if and when god comes would it not be better to have already forgave and loved with your whole heart and whole mind today?...By their acts they will show if god is with them!....the mole..

M.A.N. Sunday, May 16, 2004
@ 11:10 AM
To all, including WT
After careful consideration of the situation, and due to personal circumstances that can no longer be ignored, I intend to devote a significant amount of my time, energy, resources, and abilities in support of Silent Lambs. My education, degrees, certifications, economic assets, personal experiences, (including being a servant for several years), various contacts, and spheres of influence will be utilized in the on-going effort to expose the corrupt, scandalous, immoral, offensive, and indecent policies of the WT. These very policies have been responsible for the staggering amount of pain and suffering endured by the innocent victims that this site endeavors to assist and comfort. In addition, I have concluded that this cause will best be served by utilizing the most mature, efficient, and accurate methods available to me. Therefore, future posts from me will be governed by the principles and procedures now mentioned. People who are trolls, obnxious, unfair, cruel, purposely slanderous to the work done by Silent Lambs, sarcastic to victims, sarcastic to those who post here to defend the work of SL, or sarcastic to those who post here to comfort victims will either be ignored or answered in a manner that suits their comments and attitudes. I will no longer engage in name-calling, violence (whether verbal or implied), or any other unprofessional behavior. In other words, I will no longer stoop to the low level of those who post here to hurt the innocent. My postings will be factual, frank, blunt, and I "will tell it like it is". I now believe that this method of utilizing the discussion board will yield the best results. But make no mistake, I feel the same outrage and hurt that I felt before. I may now believe that all people are owed a professional and dignified response, even if their posts are not professional nor dignified, but I will not excuse or forgive intolerance, blind obedience to the WT, or ignorance. The work of Silent Lambs is decent, mature, and benevolent. I will therefore participate in that work in a civilized and mature manner. Thank you.

MA Sunday, May 16, 2004
@ 11:14 AM
IF THAT EVIL SLAVE 55 The Lord Jesus Christ will continue to have a faithful and discreet slave class down to the end of its happy service on earth. However, each spirit-begotten, anointed member of that slave class today must watch his conduct that he does not prove himself unfit to continue in that highly favored class. By failure to maintain his personal faithfulness and discreetness he would become like a man who turns out to be an evil slave. Jesus warned of this danger when he continued on with his illustration to say: 56 But if [ever] that evil slave should say in his heart, My master is delaying, and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards [literally, the (ones) getting drunk], the master of that slave will come [Greek: héxei] on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity [literally, he will cut asunder him] and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.Matthew 24:48-51; Luke 12:45, 46; INT. 57 When we take a close look at what Jesus here says, we notice that he does not here say that the departing master does appoint an evil slave, to begin with; nor does he say that the faithful and discreet slave turns out bad, becomes evil. He merely raises the question and says, If ever (as in Luke 12:45 and Interlinear reading in Matthew 24:48) the slave that was appointed over the domestics were to say, after his becoming evil at heart, that his master will yet be a long time in returning and were to start acting improperly, this is the way that his master would deal with him on returning. It would be far opposite from the slaves being put over all his masters belongings. So Jesus suggestion here is, Suppose that the appointed slave would turn out bad and act unfaithfully and imprudently, what would happen to him when his master suddenly returned? It would be just as Jesus described. Jesus does not speak of the original appointed slaves turning out bad as a certainty or as very likely. 58 Some modern translations of Jesus words bring out that thought more clearly, by a bit of paraphrase. An American Translation says: But if he is a bad slave and says to himself, My master is going to stay a long time, and begins to beat the other slaves, and eats and drinks with the drunkards. (Matthew 24:48, 49) The New English Bible reads similarly. The New American Bible says: But if the servant is worthless and tells himself, etc. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by R. F. Weymouth, says: But, if the man, being a bad servant, should say in his heart, etc. The coming of an evil slave into existence is not definitely predicted by Jesus. He merely describes how an unfaithful and indiscreet slave would think, speak and act, and the punishment that he would receive from his master on his sudden returning. If the slave appointed by the Lord Jesus turned out bad, it would leave him without a slave to reward for his integrity. Jesus does not appoint two slave classes.

MA Monday, May 17, 2004
@ 8:29 AM
If that evil slave
That was the best article I could find explaining the "Evil Slave" from the "Thousand Year Rule" book written in 1974 P 356. There doesn't appear to be many articles written directly about "that" subject. The Watchtower from 2000 10/15 says..........Some false teachers may formerly have been true Christians, but at one point they turned from truth to error. (Jude 4, 11) This should not surprise us. After speaking of the faithful and discreet slave that represents the body of anointed Christians, Jesus spoke of the evil slave, a class that complains, my master is delaying, and starts to beat its fellow slaves. (Matthew 24:48, 49) Often, these individuals and their followers have no clear teachings of their own; they are interested only in destroying the faith of others. Concerning them, the apostle John wrote: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.2 John 10; 2 Corinthians 11:3, 4, 13-15........It would appear from this "new light" that there is in fact 2 classes. It may be noted Jesus used the word "that" and the word "slave" seems to be a carry on of the same thought in both paragraphs. What I think the WTBTS is trying to say is they are "permanent" (come what may) unlike the Catholic teaching that when the Pope makes an official statement it is "infallible". Considering there never has been an earthly organisation in Bible history that has "permantly" had Jehovahs blessing you may ask the question does the WTBTS meet the requirements of "that evil slave". 1) But if [ever] that evil slave should say in his heart, My master is delaying, could be likened to the many failed WTBS predictions cumulating with the change of the "geration" meaning. 2) and should start to beat his fellow slaves could be likened to the WTBTS's appalling record of child abuse and mental cruelty of its members. 3) and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, The Watchtower of 6/1/91 says Like Samaria and Jerusalem, Christendom has drunk deep of the wine of political alliances. In 1919 she was among the foremost promoters of the League of Nations. This and many other WTBTS articles (with the possible exception of the Awake 8/8/91 which was about the time they joined) have in there own words confirmed that the UN is a spiritual drunkard. Yet for 10 years they where a "Non Governmental Organization" member of the UN. There are many articles discussing this on the net you be the judge. If you have felt that the WTBTS is or was "the faithful and discreet slave" but has now become the "evil slave" you may want to do what David did with Saul when he turned bad. While it is true as the WTBTS have so many times pointed out they he didn't kill Saul (surprise, surprise) he did show Saul that he could have killed him (that was a surprise). He kept his relationship with his loyal friends and Jehovah. He ran away and hid in the mountains so Saul couldn't hurt him anymore.

Monday, May 17, 2004
@ 9:46 AM
To CG
My heart goes out to you. Your fate - which is shared by so many others - is what makes me hate this organisation. Of course I can't advise You but I think you should distance yourself from this evil organisation. Shunn them - and all who stay loyal to them in spite of what they know! That is a way to show yourself that you have choosen your life - that in teh end will show itself to be a better life. And you must remember that The Watchtower is a pathetic little bunch of people. They have no right to call you - or anyone - apostate. You are not an apostate since you are more loyal to the true God than they ever been.

silentlambs Monday, May 17, 2004
@ 11:41 AM
CG
You can call us at 270-527-5350, you do have options you just need to know what they are. Your confidentiality is assured. silentlambs

CHERI ROMERO Monday, May 17, 2004
@ 5:26 PM
To Man
I didnt get a response from you on the idea that we can exchange our personal info through Bill Bowen at Silent Lambs. Let me know ok?

Cheri Romero Monday, May 17, 2004
@ 5:30 PM
To the mole
Hey there. I still want to speak to you directly if at all possible. I know that you are in the same town as me. You speak as is you no longer attend meetings. Is that true? I am way behind due to my son being in Iraq and being shot and just recently coming home on leave. They are making him return to Iraq for a second tour so I am a basketcase. Maybe contact me through Silent lambs so we can exchange info? Let me know

M.A.N. Tuesday, May 18, 2004
@ 8:01 AM
To Cheri Romero
Hi: Sorry for the delay. College is keeping me busy. I have a few ideas and I'll get to it within a day or two. Thanks.

Sergey P. Tuesday, May 18, 2004
@ 12:32 PM
The mother of my girl is... Jehovah's Witness
Hello!!! From Russia. I think that this organisation must be destroyed. It's very bad.....It's .... .... .... .... ....break many family's in whole Russia.......... Such organisation of Witneses must BURN IH HELL.

shanghai Tuesday, May 18, 2004
@ 9:37 PM
shanghai98
Great site ! You really are taking it to the next level.

Tuesday, May 18, 2004
@ 10:08 PM
To M.A.N.
That was a great post you sent! I admire your resolve to keep professional and civil regardless of other people's posts, even if they are outrageous. Responding in kind to those posts is defeatist, and those posts shouldn't be dignified by responding in the same manner. I agree that behavior that rises above all the smearing is the only way to go. Sometimes a person just has to wade through the muck and keep to their convictions. Good for you. Your standards are high, and you are committed to honoring and respecting them. Don't let the negative comments bring you down to the level in which they are meant. The golden rule says, "Do unto others AS you WOULD HAVE THEM do unto you", not AS they do unto you. Big, big difference. Please keep up the great posts.

R-Freedom Thursday, May 20, 2004
@ 8:34 AM
This is long but needs to be said
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, it was a childhood that I wish no child would ever have to live. Birthday's and holidays were replaced with church meetings, field service and bible studies. There were various "brothers" in the congregation that were attracted to young girls. When I was about 10 years old one of the "elders" (Russel Brown, a tall, awkward, babbling, idiot who was obviously a failure in every other aspect of his life and who's wife never brushed her hair) told me that a dress I was wearing was no longer appropriate because it showed my developing breasts and that I may get brothers in the Hall excited. I proceeded to run away from him screaming and he never approached me again. When I approached my mother about this she said he was one of the elders and he loved me and was trying to help me. There was another "brother" (Mike Stanley a 40 something single who had been paralyzed in a car accident while intoxicated) in our congregation that used to stare at all of us young girls constantly...everyone noticed but no one cared, it was almost like a joke, no one stopped him. The final "brother" I will mention was (Billy Barnes) his handshakes with young girls used to turn into back rubs and kisses on the cheek. Fortunately I was smart and had a big mouth because no one ever molested me, but there were certainly plenty of perverts in our Kingdom Hall. I knew since I was 5 years old that I didn't want to be a Jehovah's Witness but my mother forced me to go. I would hide on the floor of the car when we went door to door, I was already ridiculed at school for being different I didn't need my schoolmates seeing me at their door. My mother finally stopped forcing me to attend meetings when I was 14 years old. The reason was because I acted out at an assembly. We were at an assembly (the most boring memories of my childhood,8 hours of mental torture for a child) during intermission I sat with two of my life long friends, their parents and 3 young JW men whom we had met. My mother proceeded to come over to me grab my arm and loudly shout "your not allowed to sit with boys". I was about to enter 10th grade that year and all the rage that had been building up inside for that religion came out. I screamed at her that I didn't want the fucking religion and I was sick of her forcing me to go. An "Elder" from our congregation came along and tried to stop me but I also swore at him and told him to get away from me. When we got home from the assembly I ripped of my dress, literally and told my mother I was never going back. On that day I received my freedom but I also lost my mothers financial and emotional support. She treated me like an outcast and we didn't get along until I moved out of the house. For about a year after that rebelled but in the end I'm now happily married and living a productive, moral, normal life. Leaving the Jehovah's Witness organizations was the best thing I could have ever done. I went to three proms (JW's are not allowed to attend proms) I'm about to earn my Associates degree and plan to earn my Bachelors within the next few years. I met my now husband at 16, though my mother frowned on our relationship because JW's don't date until their of marrying age she now thinks my husband is one of the nicest men she's ever met. My mother and other family members still try to preach to me on occasion and I inform them that I would rather die and rest in peace than live forever on earth with a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses. And to those JWs who argue that I dont know what Im talking about because I never studies as an adult are wrong. I lived through it as a child that is supposed to be ones most protected, carefree and happy time. If I was that unhappy as a child in the organization how much more unhappy would I be as an adult. The JW organization is a protection program for low achievers and the formerly abused&I am neither. AH SWEET FREEDOM!!

J Thursday, May 20, 2004
@ 1:50 PM
R Freedom
Great post !!! Well done for breaking free !! That religion destroyed my marriage and alienated me from my friends. I wasn't bought up a witness but was brain washed into it whilst in my twenties. It took me 3 years to break free from their idiot view of the world. I am now happily getting divorced and enjoying my life to the full. I dont lose one moments sleep and I can assure any lurking witness on this site ...... You can leave the "Truth" and the "Truth" can leave you (because its not the truth). Worst mistake I ever made was doing a bible study in the first place. All the best to others who escape with ther minds in tact J

M.A.N. Thursday, May 20, 2004
@ 2:18 PM
To R-Freedom
I'm sorry about your difficult road but happy you found peace. After I finish my BA in Psychology, I might do a thesis on the percentage of people who quit the WT and how and why. I don't know what your degree is in, but I hope you do well academically. Sometimes the rougher the journey, the "sweeter" the destination, as you said.

Meghan Thursday, May 20, 2004
@ 4:30 PM
Apostasy
Isn't apostasy really much more subtle than say a direct attack on an institution like Jehovah's Witnesses? Does it make me an apostate just because I think they have done something wrong or would it be for some other reason that I am an apostate?

T.S. Thursday, May 20, 2004
@ 11:01 PM
Help from Jehovah and not the JW's
I am an ex Jw and incest survivor. I am considered an ex at many things but with this program, (which I am now proud to be a part of as it travels through the nation) a prayer ministry I have found that I no longer am an ex anything all I am now is a child of God, A woman with a destiny before the founding of the world. Before this ministry touched my life I was afraid of everything and everyone often wishing to just die, and I blamed God for a lot of what happened but then I learned he was crying for me too and he picked me up, washed me off and called me his child and I will never be the same again. These conferences are free (contributions will be accepted to help offset the cost but they are not manditatory) and if I am right they will change your life forever if I am wrong you will have only wasted one day. Our nex conference in June 12th at the La Quinta--Otter Creek in Little Rock, Arkansas. And God bless you

Freedom Friday, May 21, 2004
@ 3:51 AM
RE: Apostate
Apostate is simply a colorful word with a negative conotation that means to walk away from or to make a decision against. It's taking a stand for what one "believes" in rather than what one was "taught" religiously. Webster's dictionary says: 1 : renunciation of a religious faith 2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty Sounds like free will to me

ilidio Friday, May 21, 2004
@ 6:03 AM
meghan
Being called an apostate is not a bad thing. The Dictionary says the following (((((APOSTATE: One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.))))According to the description above there are going to be lots of apostates in the USA. Why I say that? Bush might not get voted in again, and therefore all the Republicans who become Democrats will be apostates.

na Friday, May 21, 2004
@ 11:16 AM
Death to
The silly just got plain ridiculous at last night's (5/20/04) Service Meeting. A 2 page letter was read at the announcements about the "wrongful attitude" of Convention delegates who purchase lunch during the intermission instead of just "brown bagging" it. This letter was long and LOADED with scriptures about why we should follow the direction to bring lunch and not to put money into the street vendor's pockets. The instructions said that ALL of the scriptures were to be read in full! There must have been 10-15 of them. The letter even went so far as to suggest what your lunch might be comprised of (Sandwich, cookie, fruit, beverage). It almost sounded like a JC would be formed if you were caught doing the "dirty deed" - feeding your family. The whole process took 22 min's. Gimme a break.

NN Friday, May 21, 2004
@ 4:30 PM
Apostasy - says who?
About apostacy, you need to see in in its historical context. When you do that you will see that it was used as a power tool by different dominant/fighting religions. So the term apostate/apostacy is always a subjectiv religio- political term, and can never be used as an objectiv description. As a consequence neither the Watchtower organisation or anyone else acting in a democratic country have any legal right to call anyone "apostate" since no religion can claim to be "the one true faith" of any democratic country. The only religion that still has that legal possibility is islam, since there are still countries ruled by islamic priests.

Ken Friday, May 21, 2004
@ 4:40 PM
kene1godwin
very good site - i'll be back

Fábio Pacheco - SP - Brasil Friday, May 21, 2004
@ 11:50 PM
Congratulations
Congratulations for helping the children.

Saturday, May 22, 2004
@ 3:57 PM
Sickening
Last week I learned that the pedophilia network and the pedophile ring network is so vast it is unbelievable! Pedophilia goes right up to among wealthy people with famous names. There are card carrying pedophiles. On each of these cards is a picture of someone involved in some kind of sexual activity with a two year old. Whistleblowers have to be very careful, or they can be murdered! It is all so horribly overwhelming and very, very scary. Keep talking people! Don't let the WTBTS get the best of you! Keep right on exposing what is going on in the Jehovah's Witness religion. Hang in there! You are doing the right thing!

MA Sunday, May 23, 2004
@ 9:34 AM
Apostasy.
Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defec- tion, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh. 22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18; 2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4) Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with mercifully. (Jude 22, 23; w82 9/1 pp. 20-1;w80 8/1 pp. 21-2) Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated people. (Jer. 17:13; 23:15; 28:15, 16; 2 Thess. 2:9, 10) Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates. If it is learned that a person has taken up association with another religious organization, the matter should be inves- tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed. If it is clearly established that the person has joined another religion and intends to remain with it, the elders would make a brief announcement to the congre- gation that such- one has disassociated himself. (w86 10/15 p. 31 ) Working secularly for a false religious organization could put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false doctrine. (2 Cor. 6:14-16) Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship. (Jer. 7:16-19) The Bible condemns the following: Causing divisions and promoting sects. This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement. It may involve or lead to apostasy. (Rom. 16: 17, 18; Titus 3:10, 11 ) The practice of spiritism. (Deut. 18:9-13; I Cor. 10: 21, 22; Gal. 5:20) Idolatry. ( I Cor. 6:9, 10; 10:14) Idolatry includes the possession and use of images and pictures that are employed in false religion&&&&&&&.For instance you might celebrate a birthday which from what I can work out from Watchtowers is not directly (but its practices may be) a religious festival. The WTBTS clearly teaches that this is wrong for JWs to practice. Ephesians 2 16 says Therefore let no man judge YOU in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a Sabbath. While there are examples of unwholesome birthday parties recorded in the Bible you may decide it is up to an individual as to weather they celebrate this or not. What could make you an apostate according to JWs is if you expressed this view to others or perhaps you disagreed with the counsel of the elders after celebrating a birthday. From what I can work out you will be counted an apostate if you make a stand on something that you believe in, that the WTBTS present truth doesnt teach. So you really need to keep up, todays loyal JW could easily become tomorrows apostate if they where to make a stand on todays "present truth" when the WTBTS "new light" comes along. Russell celebrated birthdays.

Vanessa Tuesday, May 25, 2004
@ 6:35 PM

I feel like you are a true God sent person, Do Not stop your work of speaking out for those who can't yet. I am a fellow Western Kentuckian. I salute you.

AK Wednesday, May 26, 2004
@ 11:23 PM
Apostasy
As one whom the local elders have quietly branded 'apostate', I wait for them to find evidence to disfellowship me. While so doing, I have thought very seriously about what that word (apostasy) means! For over thirty years I called at the homes of the people in the territory to convince them to abandon the religion they were a part of at the time. When they did so, they 'apostasized' from their religion. None of them thought they were abandoning Almighty God or Christ Jesus in doing so. But I convinced them that it was correct to become an 'apostate' from their former religion (I just never used that term 'apostate'). When I left the Watchtower organization some months ago due to a conflict of conscience - I apostasized. I did what the Bible teaches us all to do - examine your religion to see if it honors God and teaches truth - if it does not, then "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share in her sins." [Revelation 18:4] Jehovah expects us to apostasize from falsehood. We must not allow the negative spin that men assign to a simple word, to ever prevent us from doing what God expects. May the God of peace and kindness be with all the survivors and victims who still love Him. May you all find peace as you have determined to "quit touching the unclean thing". [2 Corinthians 6:17]

R-Freedom Thursday, May 27, 2004
@ 1:22 PM
Only God can see our hearts
At times I wonder if God watches over and loves me because I've walked away from the JW religion. I'm not sure if others have had the same feelings but I'm guessing they might due to the tremendous "brainwashing" that occurs in the JW religion (ie: Brown Bag your lunch or else!). However, I comfort myself with the idea that God knows what I've been through, he knows who I dealt with and why I was pushed out of the JW religion. And he sees those who have been molested, and he sees their pain. God also sees the abusers, and though they may be reinstated in to the relgion and accepted back by men God may still disaprove of them. JW's can walk around saying that those who are not practicing their religion are going to die at armageddon; but the sad this is not one of them truely knows if they're going to be saved or not. Assuming that all they teach and preach is true many of them will die when the time comes and many non JW's or former JW's will live because they're sincerely better people. In the end no matter what religion we are God knows our hearts and he will decide our fate.

Mister G D L Thursday, May 27, 2004
@ 2:00 PM
Thank You¡
Thank you for help. I'd like to have contact wiyh anybody in Mexico. BYE¡

Rachel Thursday, May 27, 2004
@ 2:15 PM
Good to see the growth on this site!
I haven't visited in some time, but it's great (but at the same time sad?) to see the number of people finally communicating about this. Can I just say how great it feels to not be "alone" like I thought I was all those years?! I agree that bringing change and responsibility to the head organization is imperative, but does anyone else dream of having individuals - I'm thinking of specific Elders in my case - being brought to task for their part? My story: my step-father (ministerial servant) abused me for years. When I was 8, my mother even walked in in the midst of an episode, so there was my "second witness". He was disfellowshipped (for 6 months), the Elders never spoke to me, and no authorities were called in. Three years later, the abuse is still happening - I started fighting back enough to scare deal old "Dad" into "admitting" to my mother and the Elders that he is abusing me again. What happens? NOTHING! No disfellowshipping. Again, not one word spoken to me. This time though, someone in my family figures out what's going on and gets the police involved. "Dad" goes to jail for 6 months and FINALLY, THANKFULLY, I get into counseling - at this point, I'm 12 years old and have been abused for as long as I can remember. After his release from jail, things are quiet for a while. He's not allowed to live with us, and we're not allowed to be alone together. But then he starts peeping in my bedroom window at all times. Making comments. And then - again. I'm so tired. Will this ever end? But there's a teacher at my school who notices something is wrong and she has a suspicion. The police interview me at school and it all comes out. "Dad" is arrested later that day. That weekend, I am called before the elders. Bob Svihovec, John Webb, Jim Powers, Mike Lucas - I will always remember these elder's names. I am asked if I'm sure the abuse happened, and then it's implicated that I must have enjoyed the abuse to let it go on for so long. And even though "Dad" is allowed to plea bargain to 3 years in prison, because it's my word against his, he won't be disfellowshipped. That is when the disillusionment became total. Thank goodness for two wonderful counselors I had who helped me back to sanity. I have such a good, happy, balanced life now! But the remaining anger I feel towards my step-father is about equal to what I feel towards the elders - anyone else feel similarly?

R-Freedom Friday, May 28, 2004
@ 3:15 AM
RE: Rachel
Hi Rachel, I'm so sorry about all that happened to you in your childhood. JW's teach children to fear the world outside, you were taught to fear the inside world as well. Did you have anyone to turn to at all? I'm so glad the pervert finally went to jail and even if he's not disfellowshiped, he's got a black mark on him forever in the real world. One of my relatives who grew up protestant and is now a JW was abused by her father. Recently when I was complaining about my JW childhood that relative told me "at least you were raised safe, I wish I had been a JW growing up because I wouldn't have been abused" HA!! I'm going to tell her your story when I talk to her next time...and I'll tell her about this site. I wasn't abused in my childhood (see my May 20th post if you want) but I did grow up as a Jehovah's witness (that's child abuse in and of itself). I know how it feels to talk to both parents and elders and not really be heard I was smothered in the JW religion, I have a very "colorful" personality and it wasn't encouraged at all. When I was around the age of 13 and still wasn't commenting at the meetings (I remember those kids who were giving 5 sentence answers at Watchtower studies) people began expecting more of me. At that time we were studying the Revelation book. Well I decided to dive in and begin reading the chapters. All the adults had said how difficult it was to understand...It didn't challenge my adolescent mind at all. I showed the adults in the congregation that I understood completely what was going on at the meetings. I was told by one elders wife that I had a very strong personality and was extremely intelligent and that I could use those skills for the good of the religion or I could choose another path...Well when I turned 14 I ran for that "other" path. It was boredom, frustration and being unheard and disrespected that led me to rebellion. I even went as far as to dabble in the Born Again Christian religion....Closest thing to the Devil in a JW's mind. The JW religion is not for children, they don't accommodate or protect children, they take pride in the fact that they don't send their children to "Sunday school or CCD". What they refuse to accept is that most of the children are bored out of their minds and afraid to say anything about it. The JW religion continues to affect my life because when I visit my parents the books and materials surround me. My friends don't visit because they feel uncomfortable in my parents home. One of my very best childhood friends who was also raised as a JW isn't even allowed in my parents home because she's living with her boyfriend. So to this day my family and friends continue to be torn apart. It's such a hurtful society in many many ways....And yea I feel good not to be alone as well, to actually have a place to vent about our unique expierences as JW's is great. Oh and good for you for putting those elders names out there...Those babbling idiots!!

M.A.N. Friday, May 28, 2004
@ 8:05 AM
To Rachel
Rachel: I'm very sorry for what is happening to you. As a person who has a daughter that went through your circumstances, I understand. I am a Psychology major and will be finishing college in August. I plan to finally obtain a Doctorate and become a therapist, hopefully in this field. As many have noted, I used to post violent and angry posts. I then decided that I could be more productive by utilizing my education and other assets. I was a servant for years and have given hundreds of talks. I am no stranger to delivering information in a manner that gets results. This is now being given as a fair warning to those who abuse and protect abusers. When I finish school, I hope to write a book on this subject. I am also a computer network engineer and know the Internet quite well. I intend to name all names of any molestors I uncover and any who are sent to me after I begin this project within the year. I particularly intend to name elders, names of congregations, towns where they are, etc., until the WT admits its perverted handling of this entire situation. I intend to give time, money, and effort to this cause. I will work in harmony with anyone, including SL, to support this work. The only way to make these elders stop acting like perverts by asking questions such as, "Did you enjoy it?", and other nonsense that insults every victim beyond belief, is to publish their names in a book and on the Internet. I will also flood their home town with flyers and contact local people where they live. I intend to ensure that victims are no longer blamed for being victims. As a Psychology major, I realize full well that elders are not qualified to question abuse victims whatsoever, especially men questioning females. When girls or women are questioned or counseled by police or psychologists, it should be done by a woman. I ask all of you: In what other field or set of circumstances would three adult men be allowed to ask a girl about her sexual experiences, whether voluntary or due to abuse?? These men are perverted for even trying, and they must be stopped. Perhaps after writing a book and obtaining an interview on national TV, I can finally put an end to this outrage when I name specific people by name and congregation. Maybe then, abuse victims will be treated properly. How do the rest of you feel about this? Thank you.

AHK Saturday, May 29, 2004
@ 8:34 AM
Love? What love?
I was one of JW's for about 25 years. Through many of those years I pioneered. We were told, in virtually every issue of the WT, that we were the most loving people in the whole world, and that "outside in Satans system" everyone is evil. If ones' dared to protest that their neighbours or relatives were were good people, we were told, "well..they may be nice people, but they aren't GOOD people, because they aren't serving Jehovah". Yet, in that religion, I found the most awful people I had met in my entire life. The degree of spitefulness and downright, deliberate cruelty was unbelievable. Jesus told us that His true disciples could be identified by their love. Well....that was good enough for me. I decided that JW's definitely were NOT the "true religion". Naturally, there is so much more that I could add to all this, but I have made my point, I think. It's ten years since I left that "religion", and I can honestly say that I have never been so happy in my life! Harry.

geevee Saturday, May 29, 2004
@ 8:44 AM
photos
Bill, loved the photo's of the "Bethel" tour. As you say if it wasn't so serious it would be funny. It is a wonder that your face isn't on a wanted poster at every front door of every building they own. You are a super star.

ilidio Saturday, May 29, 2004
@ 2:23 PM
Name stollen from the catholics????
I was doing some research on the name Jehovah and came across this::(((((((Spelling of "Jehovah" originated with Catholic monk in 13th century??? "The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah] dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270 C.E." (Aid to Bible Understanding" p. 884-885))))) I wonder how JW feel about that???

R-Freedom Saturday, May 29, 2004
@ 4:40 PM

There wasn't much to get excited about in the religion as a kid....I remember being thrilled to get a bible with fresh, gold, shiny, stuff on the edge. It always wore off pretty quick though....at least I found interest in something!! Oh and remember when they first came out with the tiny bibles...a must have in the early 90's...I wonder what's the rage today in the world of JW literature.

betrade Sunday, May 30, 2004
@ 3:47 AM
M.A.N
Very good iniative M.A.N, I think expose this men as have sit in committees and decide to hide abuse, and dont believe the children. The problem is to find them, everything is so secret. I hope you are succsessful in this , because they dont like to be in media for what they have done, I know in my heart that now this must come to an end, all this abuse as especially young people have to take in JW religion. I must soon talk to elders in the cong as they gave one of my children restrictons, beacuse they have sleep over in the same apartment, and ask them how they can do so without two witnesess that something happened, If it is so important with two eye witnesses to such bad things as abuse of children, then it must be the same in every other case or? This make me furious, when I think about what happened to high elders as i know have done very bad things, one only have to step down, and the other only restrictions.

NN Sunday, May 30, 2004
@ 3:58 AM
Name of Jehova
Dear Illido, this is an example of a typical Watchtower myth, that they have "discovered" the truth about different things in the Bible. The real truth is that these facts continually have been "discovered" by a lot of people through the ages, for example the transcription of Gods Name. And it is a shame that so many people have come to believe that Jehova is an invention of the Watchtower, and to do like they did when choosing this as their own name is to me one of the greatest sacrileges possible.

Luis Padilla Sunday, May 30, 2004
@ 11:14 AM
Free to be me!
I served as the presiding overseer in the Jefferson Spanish congregation in Brooklyn, NY. My wife served as a regular pioneer. We both realized that many of the Watchtower's teachings were wrong and in time disassociated ourselves from this high-control group. The wonderful thing was that we educated ourselves out of this organization to break free from any psychological grips this cult could have on us. This was truly a memorable experience for many and we feel blessed. The judicial committee that wanted to disfellowship me for "apostasy" didn't have that chance when I gave them a huge testimony on all the things I realized and when I read my DA letter. They were stunned and practically "shat" in their pants. We were able to help others too. We now live in Southern California, happy and free. I am glad my kids aren't raised in this unhealthy, suppressed JW environment. I am now getting my Bachelor's degree in Business and I want to continue for my Master's. My goal is to also teach. This organization truly creates a pedophile paradise with its policy and untrained, uneducated elders that don't know a thing about handling these and many other issues. There is one elder in a Queens Spanish congregation that has abused small children in his youth and experimented with homosexuality. I don't know what his status is now after I sent a letter to the Society about that, but I wouldn't be suprised if he's still an elder. In regards to this religion, Rutherford's words still ring true, "Religion is a snare and a racket!" For many JWs, realizing that what Gods Word presents to us is a personal relationship with God and Christ is not easy after years of thinking purely in terms of relationship by means of an organization. Those who courageously take steps to leave the JW organization should find support in the words, "If God is for us, who will be against us?" (Rom. 8:31). It's great to see that Silent Lambs is here to help abused victims find hope and support, things they won't really find in the JW organization. --------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org

M.A.N. Monday, May 31, 2004
@ 7:37 AM
To AHK
I agree. There is no love in the WT. They have what I call "goat gloat". They are actually looking forward to the slaughter of over 6 BILLION people. Think of that!! It makes Hitler look like kindergarten. I've been at the door in service and when the householder even just politely said he wasn't interested, the person with me said, "Good, that's more property for me in the new system! Maybe I'll even get his nice house here." What a nice Christian thought!! What self-righteousness!! Is this how Jesus thought of people?? Hoping they would say no to his message so he could look forward to their deaths?? I rest my case.

M.A.N. Monday, May 31, 2004
@ 7:48 AM
To Luis Padilla
Good for you. I also hope to go back to teaching. An educated mind is the WT's worst enemy, isn't it?? If the WT is the truth, I prefer to stay an agnostic. I will never understand the arrogance of an organization that thinks it knows the best way of doing everything on earth, including counseling, even though it hates higher education and knowledge. In my state, you need a license and certification to be a counselor or social worker. Yet these morons think they can play with the minds of children with their Gestapo tactics during committee meetings, trying to make abused people feel guilty that it happened. I swear, if I hear of one more incident where an abused person was asked, "Did you enjoy it?" or "You must have liked it since you allowed it.", I'm going to personally call the NYC television stations and report it. Maybe being on the five o'clock news for a few weeks will straighten the WT out. But I won't hold my breath. They will probably take out an advertisement in the NY Times and trash everyone who criticizes them.

the mole Monday, May 31, 2004
@ 2:40 PM
how wrong?
another prediction of the time of the end? the year 2010 is our new date to speculate of the destruction of mankind? has not anyone tired of this dribble?...in the year 1010 when jerusalem was captured by the Turks it set off panick about the imminence of the end of time...is it not odd the public is being told of the Aztec calander ending and other predicted fables? i was at a get together and some of my friends, former witness and two who are inactive, now starting talking about the time of the end and what some brothers had mentioned coming back from bethel... *the org gambles on the political truth that the masses are quick to forget.......no apology, no change, no reconcilation with those asked to leave and so this is how the sins of the org shall be polished over by distracting all within its grasp to ignore its errors. another fantasy they will focus on now....***the mole***

Cindy A Monday, May 31, 2004
@ 7:40 PM
I feel for you Rachael...
Hello Rachael, I read your comment and was dumbstruck! When you mentioned the elders names, I started to shake. I served in Chippewa Falls cong. for 5 longggg..... years while I was still married to an elder. We moved there to work where the need was greater. Most of those elders are truly Quacks!!! I am no longer a J.W. nor married. I hope in the near future I'll be able to write my story in the Battered Lambs section. Hang in there. You are not alone...

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 1, 2004
@ 8:08 AM
To bill
I wanted to add my comment about your visit to Bethel. I think it's great that they let you take a tour after all that's happened. I'm sure it was very enlightening to those who observed the people working there.

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 1, 2004
@ 8:13 AM
To ilidio
I bet the average JW doesn't feel anything about this because they don't know anything about this. The entire concept and basis for this religion is borrowed from other people. The WT has come up with original teachings that no one else had first, but most of them have proven wrong. And much of what they do teach was already in circulation long before Russell stopped selling clothes and opened a Bible. Yet we hear "remember where you learned the truth" whenever someone questions the WT as the source of any and all spiritual knowledge. If it weren't so sad that they've ruined countless lives, it would be funny. The odds are better for me winning the lottery than they are for the WT being correct.

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 1, 2004
@ 8:20 AM
To Everyone
Two quick points that I'd appreciate some feedback on in preparation for my research. First, how do all of you feel about the policy of the elders knowing who the molesters are in the congregation and having the ability to protect their children, but the rest of the flock is in the dark? Isn't that a clergy/laity class? Secondly, what do you think of the procedure where three elders question a young child, usually a female, in a room alone, without allowing the child's mother or a social worker to be with the child for moral support? And asking personal questions such as those I've quoted before? When a young girl goes to a male doctor for an exam, most policies require the mother or a nurse to be in the room with the doctor. Even the "wicked system of things" has better morals than three perverts grilling a child about intimate details of the molestation. Please, as many as possible, I'd really like to get some feedback on these two points. SL is doing a wonderful work and many are venting and/or providing input about their circumstances, but I haven't seen much written about these two issues, unless I've missed it. Many thanks to all of you.

NN Tuesday, June 1, 2004
@ 4:53 PM
not so innocent - but obedient
well, quite a great part of "the flock" is not so very innocent. Quite a lot of people have first hand information about different kinds of abuses and other example of cover ups. But for different reasons they continue to imagine that they will get away with it.....and for me this is soo awful, because for me to be a true christian is to stand up for what is right even if it means to take a risk. But a lot of the witnesses - like other fundamentalistic persons - think that true religion is the same as blind obedience.

KH Tuesday, June 1, 2004
@ 6:44 PM
regarding research
To M.A.N. In regards to the elders knowing about these child molesters in the congregation and leaving the rest of us in the dark, I too was a victim of child abuse. My step- sister was abused from as early as she can remember from her dad and she told anyone in the congregation who would listen including several elders that her dad was touching her in private places and she was told by the elders "God will handle it, go back and be a better daughter and obey your father". My mother was never warned about this man who she married when I was 5 years old and was a ministrial servant in good standing and that is when my abuse started from when I was 5 until I was 11 years old and my mother finally caught him and went to the elders. Later I found out my cousin was also being abused when he was coming over on weekends or school vacations. If the elders had only warned the congregation or my mother what this man was really like it could have saved other victims. My cousin tried to commit suicide last week because the pain was too much to deal with. my mother was allowed to divorce him but both my mother & step-father were disfellowshiped at the same time but no reason or warning was given the announcement stated conduct unbecoming of a JW no warning to the congregation. My step- father then moved to a different congregation where no announcement was made and he married a woman who had a daughter 3 years older than me with no warning from the elders. Question #2 regarding the procedure of questioning the victim. Not one single word was ever mentioned to me about what my step-father did to me, the elders and my mother swept it under the rug so to speak, no one ever asked me to what extent this was going on or if I needed counseling. I pressed charges against my step-father and the 2 congregations and just now am I starting to get answers to my questions that should have been answered long ago. good luck with all ypur research kh in ma

ilidio Tuesday, June 1, 2004
@ 8:11 PM
Obituary
((((OBITUARY---Today we mourn the passing of an old friend, by the name Jehovahs Witnesses' Common Sense.))))) *****Common Sense lived a long life but died in the United States from heart failure on the brink of the new millennium. No one really knows how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. *****He selflessly devoted his life to service the people so that they could make the right decisions and be free of cults. For decades, petty rules, silly laws held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when you were being fooled by someone who was a wolf pretending to be a sheep. *****Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (dont believe everything people tell you), dont be fooled by people who tell you this is the truth&&.*****A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends, including body piercing, whole language, and "new math. But his health declined when he became infected with the "If-you- dont-become-a-Jehovahs witness-you-will-not-survive-the- great-tribulation&&&*****In recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of the WTBTS.*****He watched in pain as good people became ruled by the so called Organization. His health rapidly deteriorated when people blindly followed whatever the elders dictated.. *****Reports of people being disfellowshipped just because they told how they were abused by members of the congregation. A young girl being questioned in a dark room by 3 elders, and being forced to detail the entire sexual abuse without support by her side.*****It declined even further when people were told what to say, do, eat and where not to go and not to go.*****Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband in the hands of WTBTS, Jehovahs witnesses became a money making machine that controls the followers lives just like little puppets, pedophiles received better treatment than victims, and the elders stuck their noses into everything including family affairs. Finally, when people are just too stupid AND follow all the rules that are imposed by WTBTS and the elders, Common Sense threw in the towel. *****As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding questionable regulations such as those for low-flow toilets, rocking chairs, and step ladders. *****Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by a step-brother, WTBTS.******Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone..

Cheri Romero Wednesday, June 2, 2004
@ 6:39 AM
To MAN
Hello again to you. My feeling on the issues that you mentioned are this: It is criminal for someone (anyone) to know of a person who hurts a child and does not do anything about it. They are as guilty as the one perpetrating the crime. How dare they know of the injury of a defenseless little person and not do anything about it. Secondly, the questioning of a child by the elders? Without parents present? The parents are idiots! The elders could very well be molesters themselves otherwise they should know that it is inappropriate for them to do such a thing and I cant believe that the authorities cant step in and do something about the elders who know of these children being abused and not helping them. They are accessories to the crime and should be punished.

geevee Wednesday, June 2, 2004
@ 7:31 AM
to
Hi, your post has me intrigued. 2010? Could you "Please explain?"

ilidio Wednesday, June 2, 2004
@ 10:25 AM
Man
1. Even in the so called wicked system a criminal can not be interrogated without his lawyer present, now imagine a young girl being interrogated by 3 men in a dark room usually the basement of the kingdom hall and being forced to go through the abuse once more with all the particular details. 2. **Elders being the only ones to know who the abusers are so that they can protect their own children and the hell with the rest of the congregation to me is just like insider trading (Isnt Martha Stuart supposed to go to jail for that? Now let us use some common sense and see what is worst, INSIDER TRADING or SEXUAL PREDATORS being known by the elders only??? COMMON SENSE DIED AND JEHOVAHS WITNESSES DID NOT NOTICE.

Rachel Wednesday, June 2, 2004
@ 2:07 PM
Cindy and M.A.N.
Cindy - I wish I could say I was surprised to hear your response, but I'm not! I've kept in contact with one other person who was raised in the Chippewa Falls congregation and in our conversations realized that (conservatively) half of families were hiding physical or sexual abuse. I hope to hear your story though - and I'm so glad to hear you SURVIVED and THRIVED!!! M.A.N. - you have certainly taken on a HUGE project! I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have. As for the hierarchy, from my own experience - being the daughter of a minsterial servant, I was used to primarily socializing with elders' or other ministerial servants' kids - when my abuser was revealed, all of a sudden I was as much of an outcast as him - no longer allowed to have sleepovers, and excluded from other little get-togethers that kids will have. Even after his reinstatement, there was a wall up dividing me from the other children, no matter how well I behaved or how hard I studied the bible and other books.

M.A.N. Thursday, June 3, 2004
@ 8:05 AM
To all
Thank you all for your comments. I will be collecting stories starting in a few months on a regular basis. I still appreciate the current comments, it gives me an idea on how and where to start.

Cheri Romero Thursday, June 3, 2004
@ 4:54 PM
Question?
Could someone tell me what was meant when something was said about low flow toilets, step-ladders and rocking chairs? I know that sounds stupid but I have been out of the ("truth"?, what a joke) org. for a long time.

ilidio Friday, June 4, 2004
@ 4:30 PM
Cheri Romero
You have been out of the truth for a long time???? You mean that you have been out of the lie for a long time??? LOL.***Low-flow toilets, rocking chairs**** means the things that were related that were not important.

L. Beagle Saturday, June 5, 2004
@ 1:30 AM
Hello
I haven't checked the guestbook in quite a while. I hope everyone is doing well. Keep fighting the good fight. L. Beagle a.k.a. L.L.B. a.k.a. B.L.L. a.k.a. L.B.

reactivated and confused Sunday, June 6, 2004
@ 10:50 AM
SHOCKING BUT NOT SURPRISING
When I was 15 I was the victim of "inappropriate contact" by a "ministerial servant" in the Evergreen congregation of JW's. It was a seedy enough situation with him taking me for ice cream at a local dairy cream after 'field service'. What was foul (that sticks out in my mind that I have been unable to repress) is that he is talking to me about how his wife doesn't like to have sex when she was on her cycle and as he opens the door for me to get out from the inside, his arm firmly brushes against my breasts in a real 'pervy' sort of way. On the way home he notices that I feel uneasy about this and starts speaking about how inappropriate it was for us to be alone when getting this ice cream. Because if I went to the elders of course it would be his word against mine. In my early twenties I left the organization. And convinced it was the only way. I didn't worship anywhere for a number of years. Now after many years (and strong coercion) I'm worshipping with the witnesses again only this time with the force of another oppressive "demon" racism. Nobody owns up to it but it's like radon. And the biggest instigators and probably Klan card carrying members are the elders and ministerial servants.

KL Monday, June 7, 2004
@ 12:57 AM
Update on my case
Hello all. An interesting thing happened the other day - I received a letter from my attorney that stated that the asshole elder who molested filed a response with his attorney DENYING ALL CHARGES. THis is the same man who freely ADMITTED to ALL CHARGES in front of the committee in order to get reinststed. Is he lying now, or then? It will be interesting to see if his elders drag him back in to a committee and ask him that. Either way, he is committing a Disfellowshipping offense - lying under oath or lying to the committee. We will see.....

M.A.N. Monday, June 7, 2004
@ 10:48 AM
Re: reactivated and confused
First, let me say I'm sorry about your situation. I can't resist a little humor. "Reactivated" and "confused" is being redundant. You can't be the first without being the second. This is just another example of perverts using children. I know of no other religion or group of people who would turn to a 15 year old to complain about marital problems. I have an 18 year old daughter. If 3 years ago I had a problem with my marital life, I wouldn't have told her, I would have discussed it with my wife. If telling my own child is sick, how much more so to tell a child that is not your own? And now the final point. If you want to read about racism, check out some of the sites. Russell made some extremely stupid and demeaning comments about blacks during the showing of the Photo Drama of Creation or whatever it was called. He also said things about the shape of heads and other features as if that determines the value of black people. There were also stories about black people turning into white people. Remember, this was a man who determined prophecy by measuring the length of tunnels in a pyramid and the distance in miles between certain buildings in the USA and Bethel. Pretty far out if you ask me.

ilidio Monday, June 7, 2004
@ 12:16 PM
KL
KL, just watch as the man will deny everything and the elders will stick by him.

NN Monday, June 7, 2004
@ 12:36 PM
to reactivated and ....
Well, since the witnesses actualy do not care about the inside - just the outside obedience to the elders - it is not surprising to find rasism, patriotism, sexism etc - in their ranks. In fact the witness society is a carefulley divided hierarcal structure that is arranged in accordance with american middleclass ideals. My only advice to you is to leave this organisation and go out into normal life were you have the right to demand to get your human rights!

Monday, June 7, 2004
@ 3:27 PM
Still so effected
I just told my parents about this organization (Silent Lambs). They were sooooo angry. I haven't been in the religion for about 10 years but it continues to effect me. When I told them how many people have been abused they didn't even care and said it was all a rumor. So I mentioned that the story had been on dateline, cnn, etc. I also reminded them of when an elder has said something inappropriate to me when I was a adolescent. I've told them this before and they never believed me. This time one of them went as far as to say "your making it all up, that never happened" they also told me they're sick of hearing the story over and over again. So I ended the conversation by saying "Well you can have that religion but you won't have your daughter". I never thought I'd feel that way but I can't stand the way they've always chosen the religion over me even to go as far as to say I'm lying. Even as an adult I'm still so effected, and I don't know when I'll talk to them again or if I will. ---- ----------------------------------------------------------- ---------------silentlabms reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org we might have some helpful information.

silentlambs Monday, June 7, 2004
@ 8:24 PM
guestbook
guestbook will be delayed a few days we will be attending the SNAP conference in Denver. Your posts will go up but will just be delayed till we return. sl

NN Tuesday, June 8, 2004
@ 2:45 AM
acting according to surroundings
If the witnesses are anything, it is to be in accordance to trends in society, from Russel's time onwards. And today when sexual abuse of women and children seems to be spreading as never before, of course they join in. I remember another example that might sound somewhat funny but has an ominous content. In the 1980:th when commersialism was God, quite a lot of the elders seemed to be wanting to be looked upon not as shepherds but as company leaders, senior executives. This seemed to lead them to develope their already existing attitude of expoloitation towards the congregation even more. So I guess today an ordinary member of the congegation, that is one who lacks the right "connections" and "rank", is of no consequence for this persons and that is one reason why they do not bother to care about their sufferings.

winsap Tuesday, June 8, 2004
@ 3:10 PM
Final Call
This is what Bill a/k/a SILENTLAMP should do: 1. Make a concession before the entire membership in which he admits lying to the world, deceiving the world, and violating God's law in his attempts to divide God's people and to separate them from His organization. 2. Get down on his knees and beg our Creator for forgiveness and help. 3. Resign as operator of an apostate website, given the definition of apostacy as Bill well knows that word to be defined by ecclesiastical law. 4. Submit to a judial hearing on charges of apostacy. 5. Once repentent, accept all conditions for reinstatement and follow the suggestions for help without modification. Will this happen? No Way. Why not? It calls for critical thinking ability. Why would Bill not be able to think critically? Bill's head is so swelled and puffy that it caused his brain to pop out. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-we let this one go up also, it is always interesting to see how protecting children can be twisted into hurting God. What was the statement about "critical thinking ability?"

Winnie W K Tuesday, June 8, 2004
@ 3:39 PM
a long time
It took me a long time to write you all, but I have been out for 7 years now...I didn't have the strength until I was 29, and made a friend outside who could give me the strength (He's now my husband). My father is an elder, my mother a pioneer, my brother is at Bethel.. the whole works. They informed me I would be dead to them, and they have stuck by that statement! Life is a million times better with JW, and I wish my brother would listen and leave...They destroy youth and childhood, innocence and joy. I have grown increasingly angry at them, and I have to do something to heal myself from the pain. Strength and love to all of you have have left too.silentlambs reply-please write us at info@silentlambs.org

Andyrewski1971 Thursday, June 10, 2004
@ 3:30 AM
This is the world we live in
6000 years plus of imperfection. No religious organization is without faults. Look up any religion on the net. Some folks like them and some folks don't. Research the history of Catholic Popes if uou want to here of rape, murder, incest. It's all there. as long as satan exist, there will be problems. If your a victim, I suggest you stop crusading about how harmed you are, stop blaming, and forgive. Until you do, your life will continue to be miserable. Think of all the less fortunates in this world. do you eat out of a garbage dump everyday? Do you have a roof over your head? Visit the Phillipines, it will make you appreciate living in the west.Oh poor me, oh poor me. oh poor me! ----------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-This comment is allowed to show the disgusting reasoning of small minded people.

H.B. Thursday, June 10, 2004
@ 7:51 AM
M.A.N
I was involved in supporting two children who had been sexualy abused by a ministerial servant. Four elders came to hear the evidence for a committee. Myself and the mother of one of the girls spent almost an hour arguing with them as to how much the girls could be questioned. In my secular work I support abused women and their children and there was no way I was going to sit back and let four male strangers who claimed to care for these girls abuse them all over again by questioning every detail of the abuse as they claim they have the right to do. We told them that the girls had agreed that they could read the written reports already given and the only question we would be prepared for them to ask and receive a one word answer was is this true so a yes or no would have to suffice. This took place after the abuser concerned was convicted and given a jail sentence and the family, myself and three of the elders involved in this comittee heard him admit his guilt in court. Those involved in court proceedures go to great lengths to try and sheild the victims from the abuser and work tirelessly to get an admission of guilt rather than subject victims to cross examination. But we were told this is secular law and not Jehovah's law and they would need to question the girls. This time however they met their match in the girls mother and myself. But I can say that they have no idea about abuse despite claiming to be so well informed by the society. They also declined my invitation to enlighting them about the issue despite the fact that I have been doing this type of work for almost 20 years. I have also wrote to our branch office in Britian and suggested they adopt this proceedure of reading written reports in the future however I have had not one assurance that they would even consider this. So more children will be subjected to the ordeal of describing their experince and not be believed and receive no help to recover from their experiences. SO much for love!!! May I say also on a personal note that I have tried to hang on in the truth for almost two years now after being involved for 28 years but I am at breaking point. I am viewed as weak as I cannot get over the extent and scale of the abuse in this worldwide organisation and the total lack of understanding of those elders who are suppose to be there to support the congregation. I am constantly being told that this would not happen in our Kingdom Hall and I should put the issue behind me. We are constantly being told to have love for the whole brotherhood but when I express my concern for this worldwide issue I am the one who is in the wrong and has a lack of faith one who is not willing to "wait on Jehovah" Keep up the good work this site is a must for those who are not heard over this issue. ---------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-pleae contact us at info@silentlambs.org I have some information that might be helpful.

Jacob Thursday, June 10, 2004
@ 5:20 PM
to KL
Since your molestor has changed his story then he is obviously a liar. Im sure the elders will want to know the details of his denial so please make sure they receive a copy, so that they can deal with him for what he is - an unrepentant sinner.

Gladtobefree Friday, June 11, 2004
@ 7:34 PM
Elder/Child Molester Released From Prison
I am trying to get the word out that Daniel S Fitzwater Sr was released from Prison on May 29th. He was convicted of lewdness with a minor (8 years old) and has been accused of molestation by 17 girls. He was one of the guys pictured on dateline. He is currently in Nevada from what I understand. Last I heard probably Fallen, NV. He has applied for residency in Fergus Falls, Minnesota, where his wife is currently residing. I will be trying to find out how to get some fliers made. I will let you know when I have more info. You can find his picture on the Dateline link on this site. He is the one with the Nevada Dept of Corrections sign below him.

Eddie V. Saturday, June 12, 2004
@ 2:39 PM

I was given this site by someone to look at, and I'm very glad I did. I didn't know there was one such as this. I think it's so good to have a site like this, and I have passed it on to others I know. Thanks, Eddie V.

ilidio Monday, June 14, 2004
@ 8:09 PM
To: Andyrewski1971
Andyrewski1971, Are you familiar with the scripture [[[[[[[Like a senseless woman you also have spoken]]]]]]]. You might not be a woman but you sure hell sound like one. Yes, no religious organization is without faults, just like you said: its all there: rape, murder, incest&& However, if you were allowed to listen to the news and reports from other sources than the wtbts you would know that the catholic church (as an example) has publicly apologized for all the atrocities committed. That is not much. But it takes GUTS to do it!!! Has the wtbts ever done that??? NO! Why not? It's called pride. Your might not know that word. On another matter, If you feel sorry for the people in the Philippines just donate some of your money to them, it certainly could be better used in the Philippines, or better yet just give the society a call and ask them to send a donation on your behalf. Oh yes, I forgot, they dont do that do they!! THEY DONT CONTRIBUTE A SINGLE CENT TO ANYONE IN NEED. Keep praying that your eyes will open so that you can see the light. May God have pity on you, you small brained one.

ilidio Monday, June 14, 2004
@ 8:56 PM
To: winsap
Final call for the train than never arrived! Never arrives! Will never arrive! 1. Admitting to lying, deceiving the world and violating Gods laws? Who the hell is the Jw here, Bill or you???? You must be dumb as sh**t to come up with such a statement, did you come up with this on your own or did you get it from the June Kingdom Ministry? I say that because you are not allowed to use your brain to think. The borg does that for you (borg = collective of non thinking group of people from the star trek that resembles the JW, Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated) 2.Where on earth did you hear about going on your knees to ask for forgiveness? If the elders make you go on your knees I can guarantee you is not for forgiveness, it must be for other activities that they are famous for. 3. Contrary to your ideology the word apostasy was not invented by the wtbts. The dictionary says of Apostasy: [[[[Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.]]]] 4. Repentant, repentant from what? From speaking the truth? 5. You ought to be ashamed of yourself going from door to door preaching that men were created in Gods image, you sure dont fit into that category. You resemble more the image of a brainless Gorilla. 6. The ones with a head swelled and puffed up are the window washers, truck drivers, garbage collectors that at night become elders and counselors in the congregation, they walk as lords over kingdoms, which they are, Lords of Kingdom Halls. Your post was indeed laughable. Thank you so much for the entertainment. Yet, there is still hope for you. I was there for 15 years and my wife 30. WE ARE FINALLY FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mp Monday, June 14, 2004
@ 11:31 PM
to Andyrewski1971 and winsap
I visit this site almost every day, although I only occasionally see something that seems to demand a response. The comments from both of these people are so stupid I first had to laugh at them and then I got angry. Does Andyrewski really believe that an abuse victim should feel like -- I'm so lucky, I was ONLY raped! After all, I could have been murdered and best of all, I am not hungry! So since I am so well off with food to eat and a roof over my head I should just forget and forgive the rapist. Since this is the world we live in, I guess the poor rapist just couldn't help himself.? I am not an abuse victim myself, but I am incensed that people who CLAIM to love God and goodness are not outraged on behalf of the victims. They are more interested in upholding their religion than they are in justice, goodness and truth. As for winsap calling for Bill Bowen's repentence -- should he repent for taking the position Christ Jesus would take if he were here? Do you think that for one moment Jesus would stand by and see children abused, sexually or otherwise, and not take a stand against it? Would He be worried about bringing reproach on the organization? The covering up and protecting pedophiles is what is bringing reproach. If the Society would take swift and appropriate action, people could look at Jehovah's Witnesses and say they are really trying to be true Christians and be drawn to it, but instead this covering up and the head-in-the-sand attitude expressed by Andyrewski and winsap are turning people away. I was a Witness from birth until I was 62 years old! But I cannot go along with such corruption!

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 15, 2004
@ 7:48 AM
To HB
I'm glad you got involved and that the elders didn't get their way. I won't attack Jehovah here, but there is a difference between "Jehovah's laws" and "the WT's interpretation of Jehovah's laws". I can't see God wanting 3 perverts intimately questioning a young female. I'm afraid I must say that Caesar's laws are more noble and intelligent than the WT's rules. These people must be stopped. If everyone keeps hammering that point, it will hasten the death of the WT and this insane policy. The hypocrisy here is that if the WT wanted something, they would use secular law in a heartbeat to get their way. They are hypocrites. And I'm not surprised that 20 years of your experience mean nothing to them. Don't you remember? They know everything!! Just ask them! Doesn't it sound reasonable to you that six BILLION people are wrong and six MILLION JW's are right?? And that 20 people make policy in Bethel? They believe it and that's all that counts with them. Keep up the good work.

AG Wednesday, June 16, 2004
@ 4:34 AM
No matter what even the authorities have to prove that the child was molested
Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower, "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home", all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child MolestingEvery Mother's Nightmare," in the January 22, 1985, Awake! When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action. However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so. If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentantis cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4. In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. The child abuse reporting law may have changed; the man may have even married the girl! Both have been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation. Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer. The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-This Pr statement is posted on the JW media website as well as on the silentlambs website. Many comments have been offered to show the hyprocrisy and outright misinformation that are held within this statement. We encourage all who read this to read between the lines and see what is really being said. For example, 1. Elders are required to investigate and interrogate children for the crime of rape. 2. When that child is interrogated it will be required to produce an additional "credible" eye witness if the molester denies the allegation. (99% of child molesters deny) 3. Child molesters can and are reappointed after 20 years to positions of responsibility in the congregation. The example cited by their own definition (97 BOE) does not qualify as a child molestation incident. We provided you with three example we further invite the reader to find additional covert misinformation that is hidden within this statement.

Jacob Wednesday, June 16, 2004
@ 5:10 AM
Archbishop resigns
Archbishop Ian George of Adelaide SA resigned over sex abuse cover ups going back 20 years. He had allowed a child rapist - a fellow priest to leave the country before reporting the rape to the police. Other complants also had not been acted upon while he was in office. Adelaide Advertiser Friday June 11th 2004.

M.A.N. Wednesday, June 16, 2004
@ 9:08 AM
To Andyrewski1971
I think ilidio said what needed to be said. Since I promised not to rage, I'll keep that promise. You are ignorant, and although you feel we should appreciate what we have, that's brainless thinking. Should I be thankful that people rob my house only once a month instead of every night? Should I prefer to live in this country and close my eyes to the crimes of the WT because I get to eat 3 meals a day and people in other countries don't? Why should anyone be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils? The WT claims there is no evil in it at all. That is a lie. Jesus promised liars would die. You had better think about that. I know that millions who think they will be alive 100 years from now will be dead instead. We all know the history of the Catholic church. I was raised Catholic. Two wrongs don't make a right. When Hitler was destroyed, the Communists took over many countries for decades. Was the world happy about that? Pain is pain. There are no degrees of suffering in areas such as are being debated here. The issue is that the WT adamently insists it will answer to no one, even Caesar, unless it decides so. Caesar says differently, and when the WT is destroyed and some of its members are in jail or worse, then we'll see who owns the universe. If Jehovah is behind these people, I am his enemy, even if I'm killed for it. I don't fear God or the Devil. Righteousness comes first, even before "the sanctification of God's name" or any other WT propaganda.

M.A.N. Wednesday, June 16, 2004
@ 9:27 AM
To winsap
I had to answer this one, considering the level of IQ shown, since it is one of the lowest I've seen. As SL said, some posts are allowed to demonstrate the idiocy of many people who defend the WT and this criminal policy of theirs. There is a saying, "Know thy enemy", and this is how we learn the mental abilities of the WT clones. I believe ilidio took care of you as well, but I have a few things to add. You WT saps (is that the meaning of winSAP?) keep posting here although the WT has told you this is an apostate site. If you want to preach righteousness, then you should never be here even to read, much less to post. Bill lying to the world? Really?? Over 6 thousand victims have come forward with the same story. All he did was create a way for them to tell that story. Did all 6 thousand victims lie? My daughter was a victim. As I said earlier, I try not to rage and threaten to murder people anymore, but I will say this. The Mosaic Law teaches an eye for an eye. It is a scriptural principle that anyone knowing about a crime, ignoring it, or covering it up is just as guilty as the one doing it. So if elders know a man is a molester and don't warn others, or if they molest anyone themselves, they merit the death penalty. So I have the right to kill the man who molested my child and all of the elders who knew the molester was visiting my home and didn't warn me. How big a headline would it make in NYC if 30 people were killed in one day for the sake of vengeance and "God's righteousness"? I'd look worse than a terrorist. Yet I've heard many say they wish the two jets had hit Bethel instead of the twin towers, since better people would have been spared. I watched those towers burn, I live near NYC. Bill is no apostate. The WT is the true apostasy. No perverted committee has the right to judge him. Your attack on his IQ is laughable considering your final few sentences. You can't even be childish in a clever way. We are dealing with our grief and anger at being betrayed and lied to. You are here to be a cutie pie. You're just a stupid punk. I have an IQ of 150, am 54 years old, and know more than you will know if you lived to be 5,000 years old. I am also in the process of obtaining a Doctorate in Psychology. I detest having to do this, but sometimes people need to see how idiotic they are. Your comments were cowardly and cruel. If you ever want to go at this man to man (doubtful in your case), in one year I'm publishing a book describing my entire experience with this organization and what it did to my family. You can meet me then when I go public and we can go on TV and I'll annihilate you. Stop wasting valuable hard drive space.

ilidio Wednesday, June 16, 2004
@ 8:42 PM
TO: AG
If you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses your mind is being controlled by someone else without your knowledge. Most Witnesses will argue that they exercise free choice, but if I offer you a choice from a selection, strictly limited by me, is that really a choice? Well, even "my choice" is a choice! But restriction is one method of control. It is an illusion of free choice and it is effective because you are led to believe that you are still a free agent, making your own decisions. As we shall see, Witnesses have their choices limited in many areas of their lives. Armies control people. Basic training reprograms the soldier's mind to do the will of the Army under special conditions, but in civilian life, the recruit is allowed freedom of expression and choice. Also, the soldier is fully aware of the terms and conditions of Army service before joining. Children are controlled by parents, but again, this is temporary and the child breaks free in adolescence to stand alone. Most parents are happy to see their children grow to maturity and become independent of their necessary control. Witnesses teach that Satan has blinded the minds of the unbelievers (non-JWs) and that they are oblivious to his mind-control. In Watchtower illustrations, the Devil has been depicted as a manipulator of strings attached to governments and people of this world, his world. Does the puppet know it is manipulated? NO, nor the JWs Witnesses rely upon the Writing Committee of the so called "faithful slave" to research for them. This is encouraged by the leadership. Regarding personal study, The Watchtower said, "do some spiritual digging in order to begin getting the very knowledge of Jehovah's heavenly organization" (w15/6 98) where is this "digging" to be done? In the Bible? NO. But through the predigested knowledge from their publications using the Watchtower Index. British people abroad may prefer BBC news reports, believing them to be more accurate and impartial than others. People trust familiar voices and settings - and that is the greatest danger for Witnesses. How do you view people who are not Witnesses? Do you believe they are immoral and dishonest? "Well, not all of them, of course", you say. Are there any really good people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses? If there are, why does the Society forbid - or strongly discourage - marriages with non-Witnesses? (w15/10 98) Although the Bible warns Christians not to judge others since we are all sinners, Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time. It is reasoned that, although we cannot judge the inner man, we can know his "heart condition" (spirituality) by his words and actions - "out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks". That is enough for Jehovah's Witnesses. Those who do not attend all meetings are "weak" or uncommitted unless they have exceptional reasons. Even in the case of severe disability, every effort is made to attend meetings and assemblies - in wheelchairs or on beds and stretchers if necessary. "The Truth": Recently a Witness that was visiting the country where I live asked me, "Is your mother in law still in "the truth"?" With a smile, I replied, "No, she's one of Jehovah's Witnesses". I was being mischievous, but I was also refusing to play her word-game. To be one of Jehovah's Witnesses is to be in "the truth". An early question after meeting another Witness is usually, "And how long have you been in "the truth"?" Witnesses use the expression often. Can you think of a better reinforcement for a belief? It is like saying, "How long have you been right about everything?" (Which Witnesses think they are) Witness converts soon learn that they should answer "question and answer" meeting parts "in their own words". This means that they should not read answers verbatim from the paragraphs of The Watchtower or study book being used. Instead they should rephrase their answers. This does not mean that they will answer in their own words because they will still conform to the well- understood jargon phrases of Jehovah's Witnesses e.g. "Babylon the Great" which is the "world empire of false religion" instead of "all religion in this world which does not worship Jehovah through his organization and, according to the Society, has pagan origins from ancient Babylon". Sometimes a person who criticizes is suspected of secret sin. There can never be anything wrong with the organization. Therefore, the fault can only lie in you, the complainer, no matter how justified your criticism. To complain about matters of policy can be fraught with danger for the innocent who believes in truth and justice. A confidential letter to the national Branch Office, sincerely questioning doctrine or policy, will usually be forwarded to the local elders. If a serious problem exists in a congregation and someone brings it to the attention of the elders, but is not satisfied with their way of handling it (or more often, not handling it, while they "wait on Jehovah" to do what - something miraculous?) they may be accused of "rebellion" or "apostasy" to shut them up. If they do not take heed, disfellowshipping will prevent their voices being heard by others. Waste of resources within the organization---- human resources is squandered and talent wasted if a person "does not qualify" according to Watchtower policy and doctrine. Women never "qualify". The highest step a female can achieve is that of a door-knocking, foot- slogging missionary, or as the wife of a prominent Witness male. In this way alone, more than half the population is controlled. Make no mistake - as a human resource in the Watchtower Corporation, you are expendable. If you do not keep running forward with "Jehovah's chariot-like organization", you will be left behind. I could go on but I will stop here for now. Are Jehovah's Witnesses the subjects of mind-control? YES, THEY ARE!!

ilidio Thursday, June 17, 2004
@ 9:53 AM
Man
Man, dont be too harsh on Winsap about him not being allowed to post in here. We know that according to the WTBTS they shouldnt but the hypocrites can not help themselves. Indeed, it is very comical to have those idiotic clones posting all that crap just to entertain us. It just goes to show you how people from a very advanced society act like people from the Stone Age. They are so brained washed, or should I say brain dead that if the WTBTS told them that by jumping over the bridge they would be in paradise. All, without exception would do just that. Winsap said {{{{Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. }}}} If sap had taken the time to read the scripture instead of just taking it from the watchtower he would have notice that the scripture starts like this LET LOVE BE WITHOUT HYPOCRASY On the other hand they dont know the meaning of hypocrisy do they?? The poor Jews spent 40 years wondering in the desert just because they were too proud to stop and ask for directions. How much longer will the poor JWs will wonder around before they can get out of the desert?? All their lives??? It sure seems that way.

Thursday, June 17, 2004
@ 10:15 AM

I dont get this site at all. Theres clear direction from the bible stating there must be two witnesses before anything takes place. True not in every case, there is 2 witnesses. But still the elders are to encourage the victims to go to authorities. The elders arent police or parents so they aint gonna do it on the victims behalf. If thats something the victim wants to do, thats down to them. Even still, the elders have been given direction from the governing body that they still are reported to the branch office even if nothing can take place since 2 witnesses are not present. So whats all this about? ------- ----------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------silentlambs reply-The rape of children that is covered up and condoned by the governing body through the polices that are enacted in the congregation. Does that answer your question?

CONDOR Thursday, June 17, 2004
@ 2:20 PM
The Thing with No Brain
Bill, when I meet you, you will be surprised at how well you are able to remember the various pseudonyms I have used to address your fallacious website. What is most interesting is that you attract the likes of M.A.N and ilidio, whom as your proselytes have become a subject for Gehenna twice as much as yourself. Why? Besides misleading people, they really, really like the opportunity to rage knowingly against God himself. -------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Could this be a threat?

AK Thursday, June 17, 2004
@ 3:10 PM
Society's Rules
I have read on this site over and over again, those who defend the WTBTS rules that allow children to be raped and victimized afterward. To those active witnesses who believe that the Society feels compelled to apply only scriptural rules in it's dealings with others think again; The Watchtower is peppered with rules about personal matters that are not even mentioned scripturally, but could result in your being expelled from the organization. They have written rules about where Bethelites can roam within the city of New York on their free time, rules about the amount of field service needed to be qualified to serve in certain capacities of service, rules about what portions of blood may be used and remain 'clean' in God's sight, rules about how to and when to form a 'judicial committee', a term that is not scriptural, rules about the type of sexual intercourse that a married couple may or may not engage in behind closed doors, rules about the proper way to study the Bible with others, rules about partys and who may or may not attend, how large they should be, whether or not you might serve alcohol at them, rules about who takes the lead in the service and when, unwritten rules and customs about the type of car you should buy to be 'spiritually minded', rules about the frequency of your home study program, rules about the type of grooming and clothing one should have, rules about speaking or not speaking to persons that have been expelled (these have changed repeatedly by the organization), rules about what consitutes an apostate, rules about dating customs, kissing, hand holding, being alone with someone without a chaperone. I could go on and on after 30+ years inside this organization. I never questioned them, and when I did I was immediately shunned as wicked without a trial or even an accusation, although I asked for the scriptural reasons for things I was seeing that were wrong... The point is; this organization has produced hundreds and maybe thousands of rules that are not drawn directly from the scriptures, when it suits THEM to do so. They often defend that right with the comment that 'principles' are involved. Certainly in the matter of childen being raped dozens of 'principles' could be sighted to show a need to establish proceedures and rules that are not directly stated in the Bible itself, but nature would tell you that they need to be in place to protect those who cannot protect themselves. The only possible reason NOT to create such safeguards is litigation from past failures. The Catholic Church has learned that sweeping the matter under the rug will eventually come to bear a heavy price. It will do so in this organization also. Many of us are now following the advise that has been so often given to those rape victims - we are 'waiting on Jehovah' to act, sure that he act in behalf of the 'little cildren'. Jesus defended them and he was a mirror image of his Father. Perhaps 'Jehovah is waiting' in this case, to see if those who claim to love and represent Him will act, or if they will force Him to act. They may not like the end result of the latter!!!!! Jeff

kimberly b Thursday, June 17, 2004
@ 4:29 PM
about winsap
After reading your cult induced brainwahed comments, i have come to the conclusion that you are one of them (a worthless, low self-esteemed brain dead child molestor that is under the protection of the Withcraft Temple of Satan, WTS). More than likely you are the chief of pedophiles, like your father who is commander in chief of the demons, satan the devil! And by the way, haven't your cult leaders told you to stay off the internet? Better yet, haven't they told you not to own a computer? Bill keep up the good work in exposing the real "truth" about these satanic led people!!!

Andy H, Friday, June 18, 2004
@ 10:38 AM
In reply to AHK 29/5/04
I enjoyed your comments about the "degree of spitefulness and downright, deliberate cruelty" in your congregation. It mirrowed very closely the way I was treated by 2 young Witnesses back at the fall of 1993 prior to my study being stopped (one of whom is now an ex-Witness and recently tried to attack me when after I accepted an invitation to meet up and discuss these past events with him after I emailed him!) The level of bullying, humiliation and blatant intimidation I received was a disgrace and yet when I finally complained to an elder (I left the congregation in disgust and no-one could understand why) it was subtly implied that it was my fault and not theirs! There was a strong rumour that the 2 had been privately rebuked but nothing was ever confirmed by the elder in question and I received no apology. What shocked me most was the way they used a private study as a set-up so that they could verbally interrogate me about my aptitude towards the Truth- and it certainly wasn't readjustment in the spirit of mildness! The ministerial servant who took the study later told me that the decision to stop the study had already been taken the week before therefore effectively admitting that that final "study" was a set-up anyway! Can anyone blame me for leaving ?!!!

M.A.N. Friday, June 18, 2004
@ 11:27 AM
Kudos to the supporters
To all who continue to defend SL: Keep up the good work. Soon the wicked people who post here in defense of the WT will be shown up as the real satanic cultists they are. To all of you who defend the WT's child abuse policies: You had better be careful with your comments and actions. Your days are numbered, both your ability to belong to the WT and maybe your actual lives if you break the rule Jesus gave about judging the innocent and hoping they die. You just might die instead. When my work is done, over ONE BILLION people will have heard of this outrage. I'll publish a book, put it on the Internet, seek TV, radio, newspaper, and other media exposure. I'll email the information to everyone on the Internet. I'm a computer network engineer and know how. THE WT WILL BE EXPOSED!!

nene Friday, June 18, 2004
@ 2:11 PM
Fools Would Enjoy this
I feel sorry for you and your future. Accept the Truth, for there is disaster ahead for people with your attitude!

NN Friday, June 18, 2004
@ 6:02 PM
Read Your Bible!
To all of you that are repeating the "two witnesses argument" I would just like to say to You: Read the Bible, especially Deuteronomy 22: 25-27 you will see that according to the Bible a rape is a rape even if there are no witnesses.

ilidio Friday, June 18, 2004
@ 8:08 PM
Condor, the thing with no brain!
Condor, I searched the word condor in the dictionary and found the following:[[[[ \Condor\, n. [Sp. condor, fr. Peruvian cuntur.] (Zo["o]l.) A very large bird of the VULTURE FAMILY (Sarcorhamphus gryphus), found in the most elevated parts of the Andes. ]]]]] It goes so well with your personality. That says it all; you are of the vulture family (WTBTS) just waiting on a few bodies to feed on, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FEED ON MINE, I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THAT. If you were not so blindly following the wtbts you would notice we are NOT against God, we are AGAINST child molesters and the ones that have created a safe harbor for them. How can you sleep at night knowing you are defending policies that allow children to suffer so much? Havent you got a heart??? You ought to be ashamed of yourself going from door to door misleading people. If someone is going to become a subject of gehenna, it will by you and your mates. Obviously Satan has you so blinded that you work for him thinking you are doing Gods work. Once the end comes you will be of the first to be a subject of gehena

Saturday, June 19, 2004
@ 1:31 PM
Judging
Is it just me, or does it seem as if lately there are so many attacks and counterattacks leading to judgementalism and more counterattacks going on? Anyway, it seems so counterproductive. I know that people need to vent, that many, many people who post here have a tremendous amount of pain and trauma that they have been carrying around inside themselves, and it is eating them up, and they need so desparately to get all that out. And they have a right to do just that. That's what Silentlambs is for. But, doesn't judgement itself belong to God? People are talking about Gehenna as if they are looking forward to seeing people suffering and dying. Regardless of which "side" people are on when they post to Silentlambs, this judgementalism feels very disturbing. At least to me.

KL Saturday, June 19, 2004
@ 3:59 PM
To Jacob + Case Update
The Elders already have a copy of the denial - they are named in the lawsuit as well and each received a copy. It should be fun. ******************As for my case, I have submitted a settlement offer and am awaiting their response. If all goes well, I will soon be in a MUCH better situation. While not even close to what he would have to pay if a jury decided the amount, it will hurt him like he used to hurt me. And although no amount of money could ever take away what that stupid cocksucker (literally!) did, it will definitely speed up the closure that I have waited for for 17 years. Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!! *************On a side note, I thought you would all get a chuckle at the nerve of this ex-elder. He actually wanted me to drop my lawsuit and deal with him Brother-To- Brother. What a f'ing jerk!!! If that's what he wanted, then he would have taken it upon himself to set matters straight with me a LONG LONG LONG time ago. He will never ever be my Brother again. Not to mention that then he turns around and tries to make me look bad because I am using an attorney who supports this so-called apostate website. Well, since I know he reads this site to check up on his perverted buddies who are mentioned here as well, to him I say - Now I'M f'ing YOU. How YOU like it?

ilidio Saturday, June 19, 2004
@ 7:11 PM
To: nene
Truth according to whom?? we have accepted the truth a long time ago. Truth that you are a cult. Truth that you harbor child molesters. Truth that you are ravenous wolfs in sheeps covering. Truth that you are all brain washed and can not think for yourselves as a result follow all the rules given by the jokers. Truth that you are told not to come to sites like this and here you are. Truth that you soon will be destroyed with all other false religion. Have forgotten any other truths???

L.L.B. Sunday, June 20, 2004
@ 1:12 AM
Keep It Up
Keep getting the message out. We must keep trying to save children from the Jehovah's Witness child molesters and the organized group the aids them in their evil deeds.

BV Sunday, June 20, 2004
@ 4:09 PM
lie
I think that there is no more child abuse in the organisation of JW then in any other church .I think even less.I visit a pentecoastal church , I think this abuse can happen anywhere where people are not aware.But Jehovahs witnesses are more aware because the whole world is watching them.But they can't prevent this thing from happening in private houses.I think you just want to accuse them of things like this because you want to oppose them.you are not doing a righteous thing .BV -------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-The evidence provided on this website proves your assumptions are wrong. Righteousness is defined as standing up for what is right, what do you stand for?

NN Monday, June 21, 2004
@ 6:05 AM
to Judging
So we hear the old arguments again; "you are just arguing because of that you are in such pain at the moment" and "please, let's not judge" and "the witnesses are no worse than anyone else" This really makes me sick and tired! First: I'm not in pain, but I hate hypocrazy and I do not think that any organization, especially not one that braggs about carrying the "Truth" to the world, should be allowed to continue its "abuse protection strategy" without being opposed. Secondly: About judging, the WT organisation is currently doing its outmost to judge the victims or anyone who dares to speak up to silence, either by scarring people of or by throwing them out of the organisation - hence silent lambs. Thirdly: The WT organisation is worse because contrary to other religious groups they continue to deny that the abuse problem even exists in their organization. They just call it "persecution" and continue to protect abusers, even if it costs them a lot of money and effort.

pl Monday, June 21, 2004
@ 6:52 PM
it is everywhere
Abuse is in all organizations, but there is such betrayal and pain when a child is told they are the only TRUE religion the only GOOD people the ONLY people that god LOVES and will SAVE, the witness child stands up for their beliefs at school etc, this abuse doesn't just shatter their belief system but there hope that there is anything at all true in the world, they have to live a lie, and they are told satan is the father of lies. It shatters the belief that that child is GOOD in god's eyes and worthy of life. All religions teach they are the chosen ones but not all teach still with such conviction that unless you are doing EXACTLY what god says (they say) such as meetings witnessing not smoking etc etc you will be destroyed at armegeddon oh and of course sex between a married couple is only acceptable and even petting is a sin, what is a child to think when some heavy petting is going on between him/her and an elder or brother/sister what if they protect them and not the child and tell the child things like they shouldn't have given the brother improper thoughts etc that the child has caused the problem hmmm every child suffers that has been abused not just witness kids this is true but the way a child heals is different for every child and the healing IS WORSE if the care givers deny the child, protect the abusers and there isn't adequate justice and more than likley any justice for the child and the child has to continue witnessing and giving talks from the platform. The witnesses are NOT wise when it comes to matters of child abuse (or pretty much on any matters) they say they are put in that position by GOD PRETTY HEAVY STUFF for a child to figure out for the rest of their lives. Silent Lambs is uncovering a dreadful problem and one that should never of been and the witnesses still like to think doesn't happen in their organization, people need to speak out, there has to be accountability for the potential for healing for the child.

KH Monday, June 21, 2004
@ 8:38 PM
to BV
I agree that abuse can happen anywhere where people are not aware. But the elders are NOT making the rest of the congregation or the public in general aware that there is a child molester among them. In my case the elders were well aware of my step-father's abuse on several other children before my mother married him but, never warned my mother about him. I ended up being abused for 6 years by this pervert. and when he was finally caught and my mother went to the elders they still did not warn the congregation about him. He was disfellowshiped for a very short amount of time and the anouncement they made was conduct unbecoming of a witness. There was no warning or making people aware of this pervert. You think that the whole world is watching JW's, is that why you feel the need to protect and cover-up for these child abusers? Well wait until these lawsuits start going to trial and the media expose JW's for what they truly are. Then the whole world will know that all you are is a cult that thinks you are better than everyone else. How dare you go preach door to door telling people you are the true religion!

angelo Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 12:29 AM
to whom it may concern
i am a baptised Witness of Jehovah. of course, being a witness is not a passport to a sin free life. as an imperfect individual, we are bound to commit mistakes and some of them in horrendous form. if someone is using the organization as a safe haven just to satiate his or her sexual appetite, Jehovah God is alive and sooner or later he will execute his judgement to that unrepentant wrondoer, at HIS appointed time. the organization per se is unblemish, the individual members are the one responsible for their acts. my heart goes for the victims, but the organization is not to blame. it is the individual concerned, the party to the "crime" who must bear the brunt of God"s judgement.

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 8:49 AM
To nn
Thank you for that scripture. I had not noticed it before. You are right, there were NO WITNESSES. It must have been the girl's word against the rapist, unless he confessed. Why should he, knowing his punishment? I am including the three verses here: NWT Deut. 22:25-27: (25) If, however, it is in the field that the man found the girl who was engaged, and the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself, (26) and to the girl you must do nothing. The girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case. (27) For it was in the field that he found her. The girl who was engaged screamed, but there was no one to rescue her." Notice the girl was INNOCENT and the man was NOT. To everyone who screams bloody murder about two witnesses, please notice verse 27: "The girl who was engaged SCREAMED, but there was NO ONE to rescue her." How often did current abuse victims "SCREAM" inside or literally, but no one was there?? In other words, NO TWO WITNESSES!!!" And to finalize this point, the Mosaic Law died on the "cross" when Jesus died. So don't go quoting a 3,000 year old dead law as a defense for why elders can't do anything. The secular law doesn't require two witnesses. Again, I repeat: I am in the field of Psychology and am working toward my doctorate. You are wasting your time defending the "bible's righteous requirements" to me. First of all, your two witness dream is not "righteous". Secondly, the bible doesn't require it anymore. (If it did, I'd throw the entire book in the trash.) Thirdly, even if it did, this is a crime against Caesar and morality, not against a group of elders or the WT. So my message to them is: BUTT OUT!! If the WT chooses to "punish" a molester by DF'ing him and he can't pass microphones at meetings, who gives a damn?? How does that help the victim?? How will future possible victims be helped not to become victims?? By not letting the animal pass mikes?? By DF'ing him?? That's not the issue. The issue remains what SL has been saying all along. It's the policies of the WT. It's how the WT handles these cases. It's the lying and coverups. It's the WT knowing a person is a perverted pig and when he moves to a new congregation, the elders get the chance to protect THEIR children, but no one else does. Is that Christian?? If you think it is, call my office next year and make an appointment with my secretary. I know I can treat you because I studied "Abnormal Psychology". My daughter told a police detective what the molester did to her. He and another officer picked up the molester at his home at 6 pm and brought him in for questioning. After 20 minutes, they knew he was guilty. They went to arrest him and he tried to run. Bad move, the detective was 6'5" and he and the other officer made short work of him since he is 5'9". He was arrested for child abuse and resisting arrest. He was out on bail by midnight. He called us and tried to "work it out", but we told him where to go. His son, a MS and a pioneer and his son's wife, a pioneer, came over and tried to talk us out of pressing charges, saying, "If my daughter had been a year older, it would only be a misdemeanor". I told him what he could do. The son and daughter told the congregation my daughter was a liar and a whore. I asked him if he wanted to experience the resurrection first- hand. He wisely shut up. My wife and daughter had to move to another congregation. The molester was with an 18 year old girl, which may be legal, but is immoral since the molester was 53 years old and married, when the big-mouth son walked in on his father. He told his mother and she FINALLY divorced him, since he had been DF'd for adultery years before and was known as a sexual pervert throughout the circuit. When I heard how stupid the molester's wife and the son looked after this happened, I laughed so hard I almost broke a rib. The wife of the molester had known he was a molester and was visiting my home and didn't warn us. I know she will answer for that in the future. She had told me "The elders know he has a problem and they're working with him." Really??? And how successful were they?? He kept molesting!! This proves that elders are NOT THERAPISTS AT ALL, IN ANY AREA OF LIFE, PERIOD, END OF STORY!! I've spent too much time and work learning my field. No window washer or deliveryman is going to waltz in and do work that a person with a Master's or Doctorate degree should be doing. This is the arrogance of the WT, "We know more about everything and anything because we say so. The universe belongs to us because we say Jehovah gave it to us." Well, well, well. First of all, the WT doesn't own the universe. It will find out soon enough who does when the WT gets paid back for its conduct. Secondly, even if it did, it's policies are perverted. Two witnesses? My daughter went before the grand jury and they indicted the molester. She had no "two witnesses". The jury recognized molestation when they saw it. Less than one out of 100,000 children make up stories of molestation. The few that do are usually trying to get their father in trouble because he won't give them something. There are so few false alarms that I could count them on one hand. The molester pleaded guilty when he knew he would get worse if it went to trial. To conclude, to those out there defending the WT, I say the following: Stay off this site, you are hypocrites for being here since we are "tools of Satan" and "apostates". Also, don't waste our time or the hard drive space on the server that hosts this site. (I am a computer network engineer.) Third and final, if you want to do the right thing, contact SL and find out how you can help. Don't post comments that show that your IQ's are lower than plant life.

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 8:56 AM
To pl
Good points. There are good and bad people everywhere, in every country, of every race. That's not the issue. The WT says it is THE TRUTH and spits on the rest of the world. When you put yourself on a pedestal, you are asking to be knocked off, and as this is the WT's view, then they need to be knocked off hard and fast. Keep up the good work.

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 9:02 AM
To KH
Very good points. How can anyone with any moral sense defend the policy of the elders knowing a man is a molester and not even telling his wife, especially if there are children in the home?? What garbage these men are!! And the congregation should be told as well, as I've screamed for months. How can we be "cautious as serpents" when we don't know the danger?? To the WT: I swear you will burn for what you are doing. When this hits the New York Times front page in the near future, and I'll see it does, you will sit up and pay attention. If you don't, prison awaits you. I would never wish this on anyone since I won't sink to your level, but you might see some "molestation" you hadn't planned on. Things sometimes have a tendency to happen. You are being warned for the last time. Things are being set in motion that will bring you down. I've already started.

M.A.N. Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 9:08 AM
to angelo
I don't know you and you might be new, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. First, the organization is guilty because it's policies allow the "individual" to get away with his perversions. Secondly, and I can't speak for others, I don't intend to "wait on Jehovah" any longer. Enough is enough. People are suffering in agony because of His due time. I don't care anymore. And I don't have to. Being an ex-JW doesn't obligate me to accept your beliefs in Jehovah or the Bible. In fact, the reason I no longer believe in God is because of this issue. So don't quote "gods" to me, I don't care. God's judgment is of no value right now when it is needed. I'm frankly surprised you weren't blasted for saying the organization is "unblemished", because most who make this claim are attacked for their ignorance. Someone was being nice to you. I suggest you use that as a chance to learn the real truth here. Get busy now or you will share in the blame.

MA Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 10:49 AM
AG's rehash
The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation&&&&&. We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children&&.These 2 comments are typical of JWs in that they believe the whole world outside of the Org is lying in the power of Satan and so the worlds children are not a concern to them. If a child molester is Ded s/he would be let loose on the unsuspecting neighbourhood without anybody but a select few elders knowing why. If the victim (normally around the time they try to deal with it) is Ded then the Org can claim they where not of our sort (i.e. they are not our children and hence not our responsibility).

Cheri Romero Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 1:25 PM
To M.A.N. and illido
You go boys!!!!!! You are speaking for me too. These defenders of the WTBTS are firstly not supposed to be on this site and are hypocrites and secondly they obviously need an education just like all of the rest of the Elders need an education. If they were educated they would know that window washers and butt wipers are not qualified to interrogate children who have been molested. Additionally, if they wanted REAL KNOWLEDGE, they would read the scriptures, just the scriptures and would discover what I have--that the WTBTS have their own agenda. They they would research the history of the WTBTS and would find out once and for all about the lies that they have told and are telling the world even as we speak. RESEARCH PEOPLE!!! FIND OUT FOR YOURSELVES WHAT THE TRUTH IS!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!! GET FREE!!

NN Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 3:01 PM
to Angleo
And another couple of "bad old arguments"! This time it is "wait on Jehova" and "only members are acting wrongly, not the organisation". Let me tell you this. A Bible believer is supposed to "wait on Jehova" when the oppression is coming "from outside", that is he or she is not supposed to fight outwards powers with violence, but to wait on deliverence from Jehova. But it is not applicable in cases of wrongdoings in the congregation! The congregation is supposed to act in a righteouss manner or else neither the Christ nor Jehova God will look upon it's members and itself as true believers. And I guess, this is what has happened with the Watchtower organisation, God has spitted theom out because of the vainglory they have caused his holy name. So if I were you I would not wait, I would run. And secondly, when an organisation is acting so clearly and unhesitantly as in the case of the WT organisation protecting "their precious pedophiles" of course the organisation is part in the criminal actions.

DEC Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 3:32 PM
Angelo
Pleeease! The JWs are just "imperfect individuals bound to commit mistakes"??? What a double standard! The witnesses self righteously sit in judgement of the world around them and condemn it for the VERY SAME things that are being done INSIDE the organization!! And you have the audacity to claim that the organization is without blemish! I waited for Jehovah to expose the sexual predator in my cong. after he molested my child. For years it was swept under the rug while he continued to molest more and more children until one sister finally went to the police and SHE was dfd. In the end the molester made the comment that he became a JW because he saw that it was "easy pickins for him". THAT'S the kind of organization you are defending....one that creates an atmosphere ripe for the destroying of innocent lives! Your heart obviously does not go out to the victims or you would not be defending this travesty. You would be stepping up to the plate to have their disgusting policies exposed and this heartless orgaization brought to its knees. Your very presence on this website confirms once again the hypocrisy of the JWs.

avishai Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 5:59 PM
To Angelo
"Jehovah God is alive and sooner or later he will execute his judgement to that unrepentant wrondoer, at HIS appointed time. the organization per se is unblemish, the individual members are the one responsible for their acts. my heart goes for the victims, but the organization is not to blame. it is the individual concerned, the party to the "crime" who must bear the brunt of God"s judgement" BS. This is the attitude that gets kids raped. "Jehovah will take care of it in his own time." The excuse they use to break Caesars law to turn in Child Molesters, hence allowing them to run amok in these cong's and molest dozens of kids. The Org. IS to blame because of their policy of non-reporting, so as not to "bring reproach on Jah's name" However, I think allowing child molesting so that "no one looks bad" is far more reproachful. Don't you?

Tuesday, June 22, 2004
@ 6:04 PM
To Angelo
It is not true that the organization is unblemished. If you did some research you would learn a lot about that. Anyway, the way the organization DEALS with INDIVIDUALS who commit these heinous sexual acts on children alone is enough to prove it is horribly, horribly blemished. It is beyond sickening! We are not talking about a smattering of INDIVIDUALS here and there, but countless numbers of them, a massive amount of them. And the innocent children are the ones who are paying for the crimes against them. How can anyone want to defend the organization when it cruelly allows LITTLE KIDS to suffer, maybe for the rest of their lives all in the name of a fallacious image? I just pray that people will see how off the wall this organization's handling of sexual abuse is. It's unbelievable.

Jacob Wednesday, June 23, 2004
@ 1:08 AM
parole conditions
Where I live convicted pedophiles get between 5-15 years jail. On release they must observe parole conditions that include not going within 100 yards of a playground or school and not ever being alone with a child. If they have children they can only be with even their own child in the company of another adult. These parole conditions are permanent and if breached will see the offender back in jail. The WTS if they know a person has been convicted in the past apply these conditions to anyone who gets baptised or starts associating. Of course if someone hides their past from the WTS then the elders cannot know in order to enforce these parole conditions. I fear many of the complaints against the WTS may be based on the fact that pedophiles are so crafty. They may use false names, move to other cities and no one is required to produce their ID when they become a Jehovah's witness or if they simply start going to the Kingdom Hall in a new town or city.

Jay Wednesday, June 23, 2004
@ 2:21 AM
To Angelo
Angelo, Why dont you take the time to read the rest of the articles on this site. This site is dedicated to uncovering the fact that your beloved society is DELIBERATLY covering up these abuse cases. They are ENTIRELY TO BLAME. Why don't you take off the rose coloured spectacles and see them for who they really are. The WTBS have over the last 100 years lied / cheated and decieved all of its followers with false prophecy, idiotic views on medical cures, invaded the privacy of married couples sex lives, ruined the education of witness children, fed misery and feelings of low self esteem to its followerers. Like it or not, this site is not apostate....The cases of abuse and cover-up by the WTBS are true....

M.A.N. Wednesday, June 23, 2004
@ 8:01 PM
To Cheri
Thank you for your comments. I'm really impressed (sarcasm) with the latest incident with the attorney. These people will stop at nothing. I am going to register and vote this November. I never have in my life. I'm lookig forward to it. Maybe we just have to pass a constitutional amendment to outlaw these perverts. I've been networking with college classmates and have met many who were abused, from all religions. Except JW's, so far. But I'm looking. I'll be done within a short while, then I get a job and start the book and interviews. Maybe having 3 major New York City TV stations carrying this story will get their attention. You can't get bigger than that. After all, Bethel is right across the river from Wall Street. (How appropriate, right?) When I watch the morning news, they show Manhattan Island from across the river. Guess which buildings are right smack in the middle? Hint: They are cream colored and say to read the Bible daily. Too bad THEY don't. Hi to all and keep up the good work.

Legal eagle Wednesday, June 23, 2004
@ 8:44 PM
Miriam's story
The story from Denmark - about an abuse survivor changing her story for fear of reprisals - other JW abuse survivors dont back off, and the worst that can happen is they will be disfellowshipped if the story turns out to be untrue. So Miriam must have lied to start with. No one will believe her now. so if she was telling the truth about the abuse she should have not backed off. BTW - the heading was misleading. It implied JWs had attacked her physically.----------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Miriam had no support structure due to being in a different country with language differences. If we could have communicated with her we believe there would have certainly have been a differenent out come. Threatening an abuse survivor with libel from a billion dollar corporation would certainly qualify as an attack. When you consider the pressure no doubt exerted by her JW family and the emotional turmoil caused by abuse you can certainly understand the reason for what happened. We support Miriam and believe her, an extorted document shoved to the newspaper by WT lawyers will not change the truth of matters nor will small minded trolls like you that choose to call abuse survivors liars.

Abuse survivor Wednesday, June 23, 2004
@ 9:05 PM
Courts not protecting children
After reading Jacob's comments it seems the courts are not protecting kids if they allow molestors out of prison after only a few years. Lock em up and throw away the key!

ilidio Wednesday, June 23, 2004
@ 9:20 PM
To: Angelo
Angelo, apparently your brain is not bigger than a mustard seed so I will give you a real illustration (this actually took place in court 3 months ago) to see if you get the point. {{{A small business had a copier that did not work, they looked in the yellow pages and found ABC company (repair company can not be named) that claimed to repair such devices. A repair person from ABC Company spent an entire morning to fix the copier, and actually succeeded in repairing it. However while no one was watching he helped himself to several items in the office. As a result ABC Company was taken to court and asked to pay damages for the stolen items. The manager from ABC Company appeared in court and claimed that it was not the companys responsibility if one of their employees steals. To my surprise, the judge turned to him and said in certain words: Every time you send an employee to perform a job they represent your company, if they steal or mischief in any way, you are responsible for the acts. So pay up. Now, to parallel your reasoning ability on whose fault it is (publisher or society) for child abuse. Before going in field service you are gathered together and sent to the territory, if you are doing a bible study, or whatever you may be doing you are in fact representing the society, NOT GOD OR YOURSELF. As a result the society is very much responsible for most of the acts committed during times when publishers are representing the society. I know that because of you IQ limitation you might not get the point. As a rule, if you dont know what you are talking about just keep you mouth shut, I am sure your parents told you that many times, please listen to them. Enough children have been hurt; please support the children not the abusers or the ones that create a safe haven for them, namely WTBTS

JON ELLIS Thursday, June 24, 2004
@ 8:36 PM
SORRY IT TOOK SO LONG
DEAR CHILDREN OF GOD, WE HAVE BEEN PUT ON THIS EARTH FOR A REASON. I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN THE ORGANIZATION. I WAS D.F.ED WHEN I WAS 30. I AM NOW 41. I AM THE YOUNGEST OF 7. MY FAMILY HAS BEEN INVOLVED WITH THE ORGANIZATION SINCE 1945. LIKE MOST OF US HERE, MY FAMILY BARELY HAS CONTACT WITH ME. BUT LIFE GOES ON. I TRUELY FEEL THAT GOD HAS BEEN CHASING ME ALL OF MY LIFE. HE HAS GUIDED ME TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT PREACH STRIGHT FROM THE WORD, NOT SUBSIDARIES OF THEIR OWN. I AM STILL ALL MIXED UP FROM THE PRIOR 30 YEARS OF BRAINWASHING FROM INFANCY AND HAVE SEVERAL ISSUES THAT I FEEL ARE TOO CLOSELY CONNECTED TO THE WITTNESS' FOR COINCIDENCE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE TO GO WITH THIS EXCEPT TO SAY THAT I AM THANKFUL FOR MR. BOWEN FOR STANDING UP AS TALL AS HE HAS. THERE IS ONE LAST THING, THE WORD "GRACE" WAS NEVER USED IN THE ORGANIZATION, JUST THE DEFINITION -UNDERSERVED KINDNESS-OBVIOUSLY THE ORGANIZATION SHOULD LOOK AT THE BEAUTY OF THE WORD ITSELF, AND UNDERSTAND WHAT TRUE LOVE REALLY IS.

Andy Friday, June 25, 2004
@ 7:17 AM
still searching and waiting
...for a sign that my awol daughter might contact me... i have only found the scantest of leads as to where they are, or what might be happening to them...*sigh* had i known anything i never would have fallen for anyone who had any j.w. in their family... for those still searching for their families, and for those on the road to recovery from abuse in this prison camp of souls, never give up... truth will out even if i am dead when it does ------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-email us we might be able to help.

TM Friday, June 25, 2004
@ 9:34 AM
Question for anyone informed.
What is the Watchtower's position on the death penalty? Thank you in advance.-------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- sielntlambs reply-They do not support it as judgment is left to God but according to doctrine they are subject to the superior authorities therefore do not actively campaign against it by protests.

ilidio Friday, June 25, 2004
@ 3:03 PM
To: Jon Ellis
Jon, If it is of any comfort to you, you are not alone out there. My wife was born and raised a JW and was abused for many years. I was a witness for almost 15 years. When I could no longer endure the way the elders neglected the matter it was time for us to leave. And we did just that. Besides having a child it was the best (leaving the DES- organization) decision we ever made. It takes awhile for you to accept changes in your life as you are so used to do and follow all the rules from the watchtower regardless if they were the right ones or not. But in time you will recover from that. For my wife and me it was quite easy to leave. Yes, we had many friends who no longer talk to us. However I made new friends! These are the real friends. They will talk to me regardless of what religion I go to. The hardest thing has been that my mother in law has not seen her only grand son (19 months old) for a year now, not that we care a bit for the old witch. I just feel sorry for my son not being able to know her grandmother but what can we do? She is the one losing all the fun. Just this past February my wife celebrated her first birthday. We felt guilty at the beginning, but not anymore, any celebration you can think of, we celebrate it. Like the scripture says one man celebrates a day, another man celebrates another, who are you to judge? I can not remember the scripture very well as I through away all the literature from the JW. I should have sent to IRAQ as weapons of mass destruction, LOL. Bill can give you my email. We could help you as we went thought the same thing. Dont be afraid to do the things you want too even if it goes against the teachings from the Watchtower. Those are rules made by men not God. Hang in there and be strong.

BKG Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 12:12 AM
absolutely stumped
I have been searching for the truth for many, many years. I have been to just about every church you can think of and studied most of the major religions in my efforts to find the truth. For the last year, i have been studying the bible with a Jehova's Witness couple in my neighborhood. I can honestly say I have found the "REAL" truth. All the things I hear these bizarro people on this website saying about Jehova's witnesses simply cannot be true. If you have half a brain, you can figure out that their teachings are in fact correct. I think there are alot of people here who are very pissed off at the Jehova's Witnesses, for what reason I do not know. Maybe they just couldn't handle the truth and living by the truth because it is hard. I hear ringings of "tolerance" in many of these posts...the same thing I hear from the homosexual community that does not want to recognize the truth and live by it, because it is much easier to try and distort what the truth is and continue living your life the way you want, not the way Jehova wants. --------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- -silentlambs reply-We think your statment about handling the truth might go your direction as well. We encourage you to educate yoruself about child abuse, we have several links off this website to help in that regard. Watch some of the numerous documentaries that have been filmed on this topic on the media page of the website. Perhaps then you will develop some conclusions that will make you ashamed of what you have written above. If so we accept your apology if not, we hope you never have to face the abuse issue in your family to understand it as so many others have.

KL Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 1:42 AM
To TM
Death Penalty? This site isn't about that. Let's not let this get out of hand, eh? Please stick to the subject, or ask one of them next time they come to your door. Thanks.

KL Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 1:48 AM
My Case
I have been instructed by my Attorneys to cease and desist all communique regarding my case. For those who want to know anymore details, you can email me off site (Bill has my email address), or you can wait until it is over and I can once again start posting about it. Until then...KEN -- ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------silentlambs reply-WT monitors this site on a daily basis, we are happy to provide them with information and education about abuse issues and hope they feel a twang of conscience by reviewing this material. At the same time you must use caution to remember they will use any tidbit of information to attack abuse survivors. for those reason we do not publish names or emails of those that post to protect the innocent. We will soon send out a newsletter on the Danish attacks on abuse survivors with further information. WT we want to let you know you have really screwed up on this one and you are going to pay dearly. Stay tuned for details.

ilidio Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 11:43 AM
bkg
Bkg, you are going to be more stumped when you find out how many times the Jews have predicted the end of world and not once the prophecy came true. go to your web browser and search {{{Jehovahs witnesses and false prophesies}}} and see what you find out. Than come back here and thank us as the information will certainly keep you out of the cult. One thing I agree with you Jehovahs organization is different from any other you might have been involved. Once you are in you can not leave again. Its like being married to the Mafia. YOU ARE IN FOR A SERIOUS DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOUR LIFE.

NN Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 1:39 PM
To BKG
First, from your way of adressing the people posting on this site you seem not to have learnt anything about loving and understanding "thy neighbour". And I think this has to do with the fact that, if you don't mind me saying so, you seem to be the kind of warped agressive personality that the witnesses seem to attract nowadays, which made me very concerned during the last part of my time as a witness. But I guess an organisation attracts the same kind of personalities that it has developed itself. So yes I'm sure you have found "your truth", a paradise I'm sure, if you are a man that wants to have the right to do "what a man has to do" according to the fundamentalists. But it is certainly not The Truth since I guess it is not to be found in any organisation, just in the honest search for God. And by the way there is no truth that can harm God, so what's wrong in telling the truth about the WT and the Pedophiles?

Jacob Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 11:12 PM
Fitzwater
Even if Fitzwater chooses to start associating again after he's oput of jail and appears to be repentant, the local congregation will never allow him to go door to door alone or be alone with children. That is the rule for anyone who has been accused of child abuse whether they were convicted or not. See the WT letter on the BBC program as published on this site, and also the same on the WT PR comments from as reported also on this site. Of course if Fitzwater moves to another state and gives a false name since noone going to the Kingdom Hall is required to produce ID, he could abuse children again. Elders dont have ESP so there is nothing anyone can do about this. The only way to protect children from these devious perverts is to jail all pedophiles for life. ------ ----------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------silentlambs reply-Blantanty untrue comments must be responded to. Fitzwater remains a JW in good standing and anonymous. He can be appointed as elder and have access to all the children he wants. Why? by WT guidelines he did not have credible eye witnesses testify against him. Funny you forgot to refer to the 6-1-01 BOE that proves this. We will give the the quote-------------- ------------------------------------------- There are, however, many other situations that are connected with the abuse of a child. For example, there may be just one eyewitness, and the brother denies the allegation. (Deuteronomy 19:15; John 8:17) Or, he may be under active investigation by the secular authorities for alleged child abuse though the matter has not yet been established. Then again, a young child might be abused by someone who himself is a minor, perhaps in his pre- or early- ALL BODIES OF ELDERS June 1, 2001 Page 2 teens. In these and similar cases no entry will be made on the Child Protection List. -------------------------------- ----------------------------There you have it in black and white. Brother Fitzwater is an innocent man as directed by WT policy and can continue to freely molest and work door to door alone. After all why would any Body of elders take the word of a worldly court on something they have Biblically determined to be without fault? We suggest you learn the current wt policy and see the horrific decisons being dealt out in the congregation.

Jacob Saturday, June 26, 2004
@ 11:26 PM
Verse
I notice from your report that Verse is trying the old trick of moving to another state from where he was convicted and imprisoned. I hope the news reports in the new state will alert the local congregation in the event he decides to go to the Kingdom Hall there. If he is sincere he wont use a false name or try any others tricks to fool the local elders so their policy of restrictions on pedophiles and any parole conditions that have been imposed by the courts will be implemented.----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Verse committed his acts of molestation befoer being baptized therefore he remains anonymous if he uses his real name, we suggest you read the murder letter for verification of this policy- http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm

Sunday, June 27, 2004
@ 7:29 PM
To BKG
I remember once upon a time feeling the same way you do and thinking the same thoughts - - after searching I had finally found the truth, the one and only true religion. In the beginning I was so zealous. I tried to push what I thought was the truth down family members' throats. I really got on my mom's nerves. But, I thought I was doing the right thing. It took a while before I started feeling disenchanted. In time there were certain things that didn't seem right. I felt helpless, though. You can get in trouble for expressing any doubt about something. Eventually I was just not happy anymore. I felt depressed, and I felt a need to escape. I didn't feel comfortable or happy in a Kingdom Hall. I can understand how you feel right now. Like this religion is a Godsend. Finally. After so much searching. But, please, before you do something rash like getting baptised in a hurry, really, really get your feelers out there and check things out. Do some investigating. Ask questions now. If you wait until you are baptised to ask questions, you might be reproved. Don't take any chances. Please. People who post here are not halfwits. They were trapped in a system that made them feel helpless. Have you ever felt trapped? Please don't shoot people down here. They need all the moral support they can get.

Jacob Sunday, June 27, 2004
@ 9:43 PM
Verse
He may use his real name too. But if he is honest about his past the elders will put him on the register. No chance he could become an elder either. "This is because our figures include the names of many persons who have only been accused of child abuse whereas the charges have not been substantiated. We keep these records to document our compliance with what the law requires in many U.S. jurisdictions. Also included on our list are allegations made on the basis of so- called "repressed memories," the validity of which many authorities challenge. Then there are the names of persons who have been accused of abusing children before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses as well as individuals who have never been baptized Witnesses but whose names we are obliged to keep because of their association with the Witnesses. (An example of this would be a non-Witness father or step- father who is accused by his Witness children or stepchildren of abusing them.) To be safe, we also list the names of persons who may or may not be considered as child abusers, depending upon the jurisdiction where they live (for example, that 16-year-old boy who had sexual relations with the consenting 15-year-old girl). The name of an individual who was guilty of voyeurism or involved with child pornography, as further examples, would also be included on the list. And, to be sure, the list also includes names of persons who are actually guilty of child abuse. We do not apologize for keeping such records here in the United States . Apart from being legally needed, they have been very helpful to us in our efforts to protect the flock from harm. (Isaiah 32:2) Christian parents can rightly feel secure in the knowledge that such efforts are made to screen out possible child ab user s from appointment to responsible positions within the congregation." -- J.R. Brown (Quote from the Statement that was Faxed from J.R. Brown to Betsan Powys [BBC Panorama Reporter] on May 9th 2002, and was Posted on the Official Watchtower Society Media Website at http://www.jw- media.org right ------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-As was clearly stated in the murder letter Mr. Verse comitted his actions before baptism therefore he remains clean of all sin. He can be used in the congregaiton and his record will not follow him when he moves acccording to organizaitonal guidelines. Mr. Brown was not truthful in his statements based on my personal experience. Only confessed molesters or two eye witnesses were the basis to appear on the lengthy database process. The 1995 wt article on repressed memories clearly stated they would remain "innocent" even at the mouths of three eye witnesses. Now how could an innocent man be prohibited from appointment in the congregation? The man that I reported was confessed and went on the database but I was told to leave it with Jehovah when it came to reporting. If what Mr. Brown stated about compliance is true then why not just report the molesters? Then there would be no need for the database at all.

mp Sunday, June 27, 2004
@ 10:27 PM
to BKG who is absolutely stumped
I was a Witness from birth until the age of 62. Contrary to your assumption that anyone who leaves the organization just wants to live an immoral life, I want to assure you that I still live with the good morals I was taught all my life, and from years of experience and knowing thousands of Witness, I know that being a Witness does not guarantee good morals. If it did, this site would not exist. I still love Jehovah and try my best be a Christian. But I can no longer be one of Jehovah's Witnesses because time alone proven that all that I had believe to be "the Truth" all my life, simply was not true. I could relate all the things that have proven to be untrue, but it would require more space than is probably allowed here. But dig around on the Internet; you can find it all for yourself. But I feel that I must warn you -- Jehovah's Witnesses have probably done more in this country to preserve the freedom of religion than any other group; however, after you are baptized or in the case of some one born to it like me, they absolutely do not allow or tolerate freedom of religion. You either accept what they teach or you face being cut off from everyone you know and love (if they too are Witnesses). I am wondering when someone who has been disfellowshiped (not for immorality but for questioning the teachings) is going to file suit against the Society for suppressing freedom of religion. The first time after you become a Witness that you don't understand any of their teachings and ask for proof, you will truly be absolutely stumped when you encounter their total intolerance toward doubters. Then maybe you will remember your comments here and feel a little foolish.

Andrew T Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 4:22 AM
Head in the sand approach
Dear Silent Lambs, I'm in Australia, not a Jehovah's Witness, and I thank your group for your responsible, educative website which 'blows the whistle' on secrecy in the secretive JW cult. Pray and it will go away, is no way to address the abuse of children. It's a morally vacant and despicable approach to legal and earthly affairs, which should make decent people feel repugnant. JWs claim to adhere to the scriptures, but of course it is THEIR reading of this. I saw the Channel 9 Sunday Show expose of this abuse problem. The JW adherence to partiarchial rule of the family, an arrangement that subjugates women, not surprisingly augments this silence and creates an environment in which this flourishes. Women are underlings in this pernicious cult/organisation. JWs reduce Jesus Christ to an appendage of their "Church" so nothing they do really surprises me. Incidentally, I don't consider myself a Christian, I have no membership of any Christian demonination.

M.A.N. Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 8:14 AM
To BKG
Most of us felt like you when we first heard of this religion. I was raised Catholic and everything I always knew was a crock in the Catholic faith was "corrected" in the JW's. They felt just like I did. I never thought people went to heaven, what's wrong with life on earth if the earth was fixed? Why should we die? The JW's had an answer. The deception is that people become JW's, not because they can prove it's the truth, but because of emotional needs. I'm a Psychology major and will have my Doctorate within a few years. I know what I'm talking about. I dislike doing this, but it needs to be said to make my point. My intellectual IQ is 150, high enough to join MENSA. But my emotional IQ is much lower, due to my upbringing, the molestation of my daughter because of Watchtower policy, and other factors. I can't "loan" my logical IQ to the emotional side of my brain because it doesn't work that way. There is a saying, "There's a fine line between genius and insanity." I talk to therapist friends and will be one someday, and I have some work to do to heal completely. I can't just "think it away". If you believe the WT is the truth, that's your business. But I guarantee that you can't prove it logically to me or anyone else who knows the facts. You are letting your psychological and emotional needs blind your logical thought processes because you NEED this to be the truth and you WANT it to be true. You fear the unknown, you fear not having the outside border of the jigsaw puzzle pieces in place so you can now do the puzzle in peace because you now have the "total picture" and are in control. The WT doesn't have the total picture because they are blind. Jesus warned about the blind leading the blind. If you fall for this garbage, you may not recover ever, and you'll have wasted your life. If you want to believe that any loving God would kill 6 billion people simply because they couldn't, in their hearts, believe this nonsense, then you go get baptized. Too many JW's have "goat gloat" because they can't wait for everyone to die so they can get their houses and property. It never occurs to them that they won't be there themselves because they have no love for anyone. Where are the soup kitchens? When does the WT take blankets and food out on the street and feed the poor? What did the Bible say about saying, "Go, and be warm and well-fed.", but a person gave nothing to the needy one? The WT is all hot air. When you mature, you might see this in time. I'm not the smartest person on earth. But I'm far from the stupidest. If I fell for it for 20 years, what makes you any different? Are you smarter than me or the others here who have seen the real WT and the "real truth"? Did you study the WT's background? Do you know they belonged to the United Nations, lied in court, knowingly allowed children to be raped, including my own daughter at the age of nine, and other crimes against humanity? I don't have time to write a book here, but you better wise up and listen. You are making a tragic mistake.

M.A.N. Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 5:58 PM
To Jacob re: Verse
I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say or how you feel so I'll treat you as decently as possible this time. I don't think you understand what SL is saying to you and in general. The murderer in Florida might have been "honest about his past", but the elders were told by the WT that they were not to pursue the matter. It was between his conscience and God. This is total horse manure, to quote a friend of mine. Knowing a man is a wanted fugitive, even if the law doesn't know his identity or does know, makes the elders accessories to murder in some courts. Commonly called "harboring a criminal". If elders don't want to get involved in secular law, then why do they hold committee meetings with abuse victims and grill them like they are the guilty ones? Who appointed these jackasses to play NYPD? They are NOT cops! Why doesn't anybody understand this at the WT?? THEY SHOULD MIND THEIR OWN FREAKIN' BUSINESS!!! If they wish to DF someone for sin, that's the extent of their authority, if they even have that right. THE LAW IS NOT THEIR DOMAIN, PERIOD!! How many times must this point be made?? If JW's can't carry firearms as part of their jobs, and they used to be able to be cops, detectives, etc., then why do they think and act like cops? If a man starts to study with the congregation, whether he's baptized or not, and is known to have committed a murder, the elders should turn him in. I don't believe in "ecclesiastical privilege". If the law allows it, the law sucks and should be changed. It's funny how quick the WT is to appeal to the law when it suits their purpose, but how easily they ignore it when it doesn't. Whatever happened to render unto Caesar?? I thought the JW's had no clergy/laity class? Then what do you call it when people can confess their sins to elders and the elders act like priests and keep it to themselves? The WT acts so much like the Catholic Church, but I thought they hated them. They bash them so often, don't they? And what register? Who says he won't be appointed? If they consider him innocent, he is free to be appointed. Voyeurism puts you on the list? Then every elder who ever grilled a child about the details concerning his/her abuse should be on the list for being perverts because they listened to sexual stories. And if they consider the victim to not have a case because of not having two witnesses, then isn't it gossip? Then they are guilty of gossip and should DF themselves. They want to have their cake and eat it too. What kind of men would put a child through a committee meeting that humiliates the innocent victim? Elders who do this are sick. I'm willing to bet some of them enjoy it. They know damn well the victim has no case many times, but they listen anyway. Parents can feel secure? The hell they do!! The congregation isn't even told when a proven abuser is in the congregation, much less a suspected or accused abuser, so how can anyone be secure? Do you honestly feel the idiotic policy of the WT is keeping everyone safe? Then why is this site here and why are more victims coming forward each week? Some job the "qualified elders" are doing!! Again, they prove their incompetence each and every day. ELDERS ARE NOT CAPABLE OF PREVENTING CHILD ABUSE. IT IS NOT THEIR JOB TO PROMISE THAT THEY CAN DO THIS. How many more poor children will be abused and raped before these morons admit they can't do anything right in this area?? JR Brown is a lying pig. Claiming that elders report abuse in states that require it and stating that elders don't prevent victims from telling the police as is their right to do is not enough. In non-reporting states, the elders often do not report abuse, although any other decent human being would, required or not. And as SL has repeated pointed out, many times the victim is punished for going to the police or warning others in the congregation, because the WT considers this slander and gossip. As SL said, what use is a database if the congregation doesn't learn of the identity of molesters so that they can stay away from them? The WT shows more aggression in trying to catch someone going to an R-rated movie than they do about hunting down child molesters. If I smoked one cigar or bought one lottery ticket and just ONE person saw me, I'd be in front of a committee faster than you can imagine. If it was an elder who saw me, I'd be finished. But 3 witnesses to a repressed memory is not enough for them? These hypocrites are going to burn, but good. What do you mean, "We do not apologize....". Who are you?

M.A.N. Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 6:06 PM
To mp
Excellent discussion!! As SL is aware, some have already tried to sue the WT. In many courts, it was ruled that this is a voluntary religion and activity. In other words, you don't have to belong and since it's a private group, they can make their own rules concerning membership. If you lose your family, that's between you and them. It was ruled that any religion has the right to punish as it sees fit. Maybe that's fair, but I'm not a lawyer. My point is that they are narrow-minded idiots and hypocrites. You can indeed ask all the questions you want to BEFORE you get in, but afterward, you better shut up or else. It is indeed unfortunate that those who leave or get the boot lose family, but the family members are the ones who choose not to associate with the DF'd one, according to the WT. Cruel but probably legal. It does suck and the WT knows it, that's why they do it. The trick is to keep worldly friends and hope your family is not brainwashed too deeply by this sad cult.

Jacob Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 6:18 PM
Murder letter
The Murder BOE has nothing to do with nor is referring to child abuse and pedophiles. So what is stated in that letter is not applied to pedophiles. To begin with priests and doctors are not required to report confessed murderers to the police either although they will advise the murderer to "fess up". Same with JW elders. But child abuse in most places in the US and other western countries involves mandatory reporting. What part of the word mandatory dont you understand? As you can see from Brown's statement, anyone who has unnatural tendencies towards children whether they have actually molested a child or not are on the register and cannot have service privileges. Elders and servants must be irreprehensible. Twenty years or more of an unblemished life means they can be viewed as irreprehensible. But it takes that long for a person to prove to the elders that children are not in danger. At least JWs dont have youth clubs and youth camps where persons other than their parents get to be in charge. So enforcing the rules about not being alone with kids and not going door to door alone means our kids are protected. Having youth clubs and camps is what led to a pedophile ring operating in the Anglican church in Australia for over 30 years - that and the failure of Bishops to take any action, telling victims to "get over it"

Jacob Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 7:09 PM
Is it Paul Berry?
You webshots photos of your df announcement shows photos of a "molester" from the rear ( not his face) attending the KH the same night. From the rear the photographed man looks like Paul Berry. You also state that Paul Berry is "still in good standing" with the congregation. But only a few years ago Paul Berry was sentenced to 56 years jail. You also elsewhere state that Paul Berry has a new wife - you saw her driving to a meeting and you wonder if she knows he is a convicted child molester. How could she not know? So putting it all together either Paul Berry was acquitted on apeal and has been exhonerated, or you are not telling the truth. Which is it? ---------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Paul Berrry remains incarcerated in New Hampshire, I attended meetings in Western KY. The man in the pic is not Paul Berry.

Margaret Monday, June 28, 2004
@ 7:12 PM
apples and oranges
Your comparing WT policy on confessed murderers with confessed pedohiles is comparing apples with oranges.

NN Tuesday, June 29, 2004
@ 5:21 AM
Jacob
Well Jacob, you seeme to forget one crucial thing, everything in this organisation is decided by the elders. If they have decided to "forgive" everything is forgotten and the abuser is "freed of all sin". They might even decide that there were no sin at all, that it was all slander, and of course the judges of this "satanic system" has no standing with the elders. Everything written on paper is just a sham to keep the outside satisfied. You think I'm wrong? Well you just try to question the elders judgement, especially in an abuse case and you will see how right I am.

Jacob Tuesday, June 29, 2004
@ 4:26 PM
Discrepancy
If you attended meetings and was df in another state, how is it you were able to observe Paul Berry's new wife driving to a KH in New Hampshire? Are you stalking? ------- ----------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------silentlambs reply-Excuse me are you an idiot? The events of my df happened over two years ago the events surrounding Paul Berry are in a completely different time frame and reported by those that live in that state.

Margaret Tuesday, June 29, 2004
@ 4:39 PM
The purpose of the Child Protection Register
It does not replace mandatory reporting.They are still reported to the police on the basis of only one complaint, but cannot be df on the basis of only one complaint. Nor can anyone who is not baptised be df. But as we all know not all pedophiles who are arrested get convicted. And the courts place no restrictions on those who are acquitted or whose cases dont even make it to court because police cant get enough evidnece.Hence the register includes ALL who have ever been accused of child abuse including repressed memory claims, and even those who have read or possessed child pornography and have an unnatural attitude to children.Apart from not being allowed service privileges, they cannot be alone with kids or go door to door alone. This is far more acceptable than the Catholic and Anglican attitude of not only failing to report child abuse to the police but also allowing pedophiles to continue working with kids as priests or supervising youth camps. ---------- ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------silentlambs reply-This is absolutely false information trying to misdirect those that read this guestbook. We let it go up to help the reader see the intentional effort of questionable people to simply lie to muddy up the water and confuse people seeking accurate information. 1. Datebase members are typically not reported to police. 2. IF someone looks a porn they are not put on database and treated as a child molester? not so. 3. Those with unnatural attitude toward children? Please give us a break, how is that defined in WT literature? It isnt and there is no basis to identify anyone of that nature in the congregation. Simple propaganda with no foundation.

AK Tuesday, June 29, 2004
@ 4:44 PM
Re: mp's comments
MP; the words you used to describe your situation re: 'the truth' could have been mine. I credit the organization, where they deserve credit also, in the areas of religious freedom law, and matters of moral standards. I, like you left this organization after a lifetime of service. I do not hate Jehovah's witnesses, but love them. But I came to a rational understanding of matters both moral (like this child abuse issue and other issues), and doctrinal, that could not be harmonized with the love of the Christ as revealed in God's Holy Bible. I have never stolen, practiced lying or deceit, committed any sort of sexual immorality. I am still married to the same woman I married 30 years ago. I too am trying to practice Christianity as revealed in the Gospel accounts of Jesus life. But I and my wife determined to leave quietly a few months back when the 'truth' became an obvious farce under close scutiny. We have never been reproved or reprimanded, or even investigated for any wrongdoing in our over 8 decades of combined service as Jehovah's witnesses. But when the elders began to 'suspect' (without proof or even an investigation) that we were doubting the organization in some way they issued a 'secret shunning' command, or essence thereof apparently. For months now, even though no announcement has ever been made, nor any accusation leveled, we have been openly shunned by all the local witnesses. This is only possible if the elders themselves are 'slandering' us privately. I think that is ironic in view of the reasoning used to disfellowship victims of child rape for slandering within the congregation. The only word to describe that is hypocricy, or maybe duplicity. May the God of justice and real 'truth' hold us all accountable for the actions (or lack thereof) that benefit or damage others! Jeff

ilidio Tuesday, June 29, 2004
@ 7:24 PM
To: Margaret
Margaret, I think it is ok to compare apples (murderers) and oranges (pedophiles) after all they are both rotten fruits from the same basket(wtbts).

mdh Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 2:52 AM
thank you I think
I have been studying with a witness for almost 4 years and have went to a meeting 2 times(memorial) I am very torn on my feelings towards the jw beliefs I do feel some of their beliefs are closer to the truth than other belief system I have been involved with but I do believe now I have had some red flags go up tonight looking at some differnt web sites and now with my search for some truth and now realize no matter how long I search I will never find one religion that will be perfect in every way I will not find my relationship with GOD through any religion but I'll find it through me I have come to realize that we are all an imperfect society no matter race religous preference age gender etc. and I won't find peace through anyone other than GOD and nobody else so thank you for this new outlook mdh

MA Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 3:22 AM
to NN re Jacab
Amen

AK Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 7:24 AM
Reply to Margaret
Since murder is considered by most civilized societies to be the worst possible crime, in that respect there is no false comparison (your apples to oranges analogy). Any society can be adjudged based on how it treats those whom it considers it's worse offenders. The point being made with that comparison of factual policy, is that if even murder is considered a crime that Jw's do not feel compelled to report (or compelled to protect it's local flock from), then the attitude of lesser crimes against persons would be similar. It reveals the WTBTS's true view of life and the flock as of lesser importance than it's policies, which are subject to immediate review and change at the whim of a few men in New York. And that, without any consideration of the views and opinions of the vast majority of Jw's affected. While it could be argued that 'ecclesiastical privilage' would exempt clerics of some churches from making such reports, that is a mute argument among Jehovah's witnesses since they claim no clergy/laity distinction! The greater and moral argument would be that the fitness of the flock (or of the persons outside the flock that come into contact with such deviates) have an inherent right to be protected and warned by those who claim responsibility over them. While not reverting to complete secularianism, it would seem that cooperation with these authorities, that God is allowing to rule the earth, especially in handling such grave issues, would most certainly be in harmony with our Lord's command to give "Caesar's things to Caesar", and the Bible's specific commands to older men to 'watch over the flock in your care', wouldn't it? Only those who would prefer a legalistic approach, as opposed to one directed by the love that Christ displayed, would favor the current policies that allow childen to be raped and the flock unguarded. There is no scriptural reason for such policies. As stated before, this organisation has produced written rules that cover all aspects of life (in an effort to control the flock, not to love them). They do not feel compelled to restrict the voluminous rules they have written to simple scriptural commands in many other areas, why here? The answer is obvious and simple; They wish to be viewed not as humble servants of Christ on the earth, but as the Master of the Faith of all of Jehovah's Witnesses. In short: A Clergy/Laity distinction does exist in this organization as a part of an effort to move it to mainstream religious thinking and to 'be recognized'. I would personally rather heed Jesus words, when he said; "By their fruits, you will recognize these men." May God bless the children who have been hurt by this failure to show respect for the ones whom Jesus stated "the kingdom belongs to suchlike ones". Jeff

M.A.N. Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 10:04 AM
To Everyone
I found an article "Helping Your Children to Thrive" on how to raise children in a loving manner on the WT site. Here is the link, but I don't know how long it will be up: http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1997/8/8/article_03.htm Notice this information: Communication Another good way to express love to your children is to follow the counsel of James 1:19: "Be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath." Do you draw your children out and really listen to what they have to say? If your children know that you will lecture them before they are even finished talking or will get angry when you learn how they really feel, then they may keep their feelings to themselves. But if they know that you will really listen, they will be far more likely to open up to you.Compare Proverbs 20:5. What, though, if they reveal feelings that you know to be wrong? Is it time for an angry response, a lecture, or some discipline? Granted, some childish outbursts can make it hard to be "slow about speaking, slow about wrath." But consider again God's example with his children. Does he create an atmosphere of morbid fear, so that his children are afraid to tell him how they really feel? No! Psalm 62:8 says: "Trust in [God] at all times, O people. Before him pour out your heart. God is a refuge for us." (BOX): How to Help Children Thrive Provide a secure environment in which they feel loved and wanted Commend them regularly. Be specific Be a good listener Take a break when anger flares Set clear, consistent boundaries and limits Adapt discipline to the needs of each child Do not expect more from your child than is reasonable Care for spiritual needs through regular study of God's Word So when Abraham was worried about God's decision to destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, he did not hesitate to say to his heavenly Father: "It is unthinkable of you that you are acting in this manner . . . Is the Judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?" Jehovah did not rebuke Abraham; He listened to him and soothed his fears. (Genesis 18:20-33) God is remarkably patient and gentle, even when his children pour out feelings that are entirely unjustified and unreasonable.Jonah 3:10-4:11. Parents likewise need to create an environment in which children feel safe to reveal their innermost feelings, no matter how disturbing these may be. So if your child makes an impassioned outburst, listen. Instead of scolding, acknowledge the child's feelings and draw out the reasons. For example, you might say: 'You sound angry at so-and-so. Do you want to tell me what happened?' End of material. Please notice what I quoted here and the WT's phrasing. They warn that parents shouldn't be angry or act like they don't want to listen to their children. The WT even cautioned against being negative even if the parent knew that what the child was saying was wrong. But the WT knows that what child abuse victims is saying is RIGHT, yet how do they treat them? Like they say to in this article? I DON'T THINK SO!!!! They imply that even if the parent knows that what the child is saying is wrong that this is not the time for discipline. Very funny, considering that if anyone raises his voice at all against them, he faces being disfellowshipped or worse. Notice that there is not supposed to be an atmosphere of "morbid fear". Yet how safe does anyone feel when contradicting the WT? "Afraid to tell how they really feel?" I'll let you judge that for yourselves. GOD HIMSELF told Abraham He was going to do something, yet Abraham is commended for arguing with God and it's okay that he called God's actions "unthinkable" and implied that God was doing something wrong. Yet even this is okay with the WT. BUT:......Now we have the WT, not God, saying or doing something that THEY KNOW IS WRONG AND WE KNOW IS WRONG. What happens if we complain? Harsh discipline, DF'ing, and similar psychological abuse. And this is called "Jehovah's loving organization"?? Can anyone spell "hypocrite" and "propaganda"? Does anyone else see the lying, two-faced information being given here by the WT? Thank you.

Margaret Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 9:23 PM
reading porn
Reading porn is not something that anyone would tell the elders about anyway, and especially not kiddie porn. However, if in the process of a police investigation a suspected pedophile is found to have kiddie porn in his possession this is not only evidence to be used in court, but also a criminal offense. If the person was a baptized witness or associating with any JW congregation and was being investigated over child abuse then he automatically goes on the register, and even if he is not convicted the fact that he has an unnatural attitude to children - enjoying kiddie porn - is the reason. I have to ask, why should I have to explain the obvious to people who are apparently intelligent enough to use a computer? It's painfully obvious to anyone reading the articles on your site that the pedophile register is needed to protect kids in the congregation from all apparent pedophiles and not just those who have been convicted. I know personally of two cases of child abuse in two of the congregations I have been with - both were reported to the police by the elders, both offenders were jailed, one was dfed but the other had not been baptized and could not be dfed. and the 2 cases go back 20 years. So even back then, the elders did the right thing, obeying Caesar's law and in each case there was only the word of one victim.

Jacob Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 9:51 PM
A prayer for abuse survivors
Our dear Father, Jehovah May the victims of child abuse have the courage to tell their parents or other responsible adults so that evil people will receive due punishment by the superior authorities (the police, courts and legal system) and also so that other children can be protected from these sick perverts. Let these dear children not be intimidated into silence by their abusers and may they have your comfort support and guidance. In the name of the Great Shepherd who gave his life for the flock, your dear Son Jesus. Amen.

Margaret Wednesday, June 30, 2004
@ 9:55 PM
Doctor/patient - lawyer /client and clerical privilege
The right of privilege can soon be overcome if it obstructs justice by a subpena.

Cathy Thursday, July 1, 2004
@ 8:43 AM
Blind Bastards
How can anybody be so blind?Child abuse is such a horrendous crime and Jehovah is a God of Love? Oh,I'm sure he is.But the dubs have the whole concept ass backwards because they are so brainwashed and blind.They have some balls continuing to go out preaching their religion and actually believing they are the happiest people on earth [in spite of all the horror and hurt they have caused.Cathy

Gloria (formerly Juptner) Thursday, July 1, 2004
@ 3:16 PM
on
It's been 10 years now since my two daughters and I excaped from this cult and my Elder husband who molested our daughter. She was disfellowshipped on her 16th birthday because she found the courage to speak out and speak up! We are happy and healing now! But when our "faithful and discreet slave" looked the other way and called us apostates we lost some dear friends who just can't see "the truth" of what "They" are hiding. I lost a dear friend her name is TAMMY MILBRANT. We lost touch in all the chaos. I wonder if she is still a witness. We lived in Gallatin TN and she was in my congregation for awhile. If anyone knows her please tell her I miss her and to contact silentlambs.

TRESBELLA Thursday, July 1, 2004
@ 7:21 PM
RAPE
I am a Jeahovah's wittness. I hate it cause I know with all the reserach and experience I have that it is not the truth. But until I can move out on my own I suppose I'm stuck right? (I am 20) O.K. So I began questioning the rape issue at 17. It was just one of the subjects I was researching at the time and realized that from the early 70's to about the late 80's the socity has gone back and forth practially every 3 years concerning whether it was a woman's fault if she didn't scream during rape and if it would actually considered fornication!!This is not right. How can the so called "light is getting brighter" as the watchtower professes it to be concerning information if it goes back and forth when these old men they call the governing body feel like it. Rape is rape. No matter what. I've been butt naked on my boyfriend's bed and have said no and he used to still have sex with me. I call that rape. Not fornication. The only thing worse then being a witness is being a female jehovah's wittness!

KL Friday, July 2, 2004
@ 12:30 AM
RE: Jacob
Jacob, you're an ass. You think Jehovah is going to listen to a prayer that you post on this website??? After all the posting you have done on this non-apostate "apostate" website, do you honestly think that HE listens to anything you say at all???? I know we sure don't. Why don't you just stay off here if you are going to be such a freakin hypocrite?

L.L.B. Friday, July 2, 2004
@ 1:11 PM
Neat Post Jacob
It's kind of a big lie though don't you think? You are praying to Jehovah and you are acting like this is some kind of position of a Jehovah's witness but who are you trying to fool. Everyone here knowa that what is taught by the Jehovah's Witness religious cult is that the Police, the Courts and the legal system is governed and controlled by Satan. For you to refer to them as a "superior authority" is a lie to the Public. the goal of the J.W.s is to hide and keep secret as much as possible from the "worldly authorities" like the Police and the Courts. Your position in your booklet on who witnesses should testify in family court matters specifically states that lying in court is acceptable on the basis that the devil (the court, the judge) does not deserve to know the truth. You are wasting your time posting your propoganda here my friend. Maybe your next prayer should be for yourself that you learn to tell the truth and not mask your beliefs with little white lies or in your terminology "Theocratic Warfare". A lie is a lie whether you believe your doing it for Jehovah and the Watch Tower or not. The best way to help these children is to end the cover-up and hide mentality of the WTBTS and to end the manner in which children trapped in that cult are isolated or intimidated into not disclosing to the authorities about the rampant abuse.

mp Friday, July 2, 2004
@ 8:14 PM
to KL re Jacob
Now, now, don't be so hard on Jacob. Don't tell him to stay off this site. He might just see the truth about "the Truth" if he hangs around long enough. Some heads are hard and it takes time for the reality to get through, but the more one reads about the abuse and the lies the sooner it will sink in.

Margaret Friday, July 2, 2004
@ 9:53 PM
to KL
Re Jacob's prayer. Im sure he is praying every day that Jehovah will help all genuine victims of abuse, including you. Why attack someone who cares enough to pray for you? To SL - I accessed "L" and they have deleted all your posts in the WT information section of their site. Do you know why? --------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-I deleted all sl posts as we are not connected in any way with that website nor do we encourage abuse survivors to go there.

pl Friday, July 2, 2004
@ 10:30 PM
re angelo tues 22nd
Angelo while it would be truly wonderful to think that it is only the individuals that are responsible and the organization is free from blame this may of been true in the beginning it may of been the individual at fault it might have been oh shock horror brother such and such abused that poor child (although not likley, even years ago they blamed the child) but for the sake of the point now that an organization knows that there is child abuse happenning and is fully aware it is not blamless any more. It is more interested in protecting themselves from survivors then healing for survivors, more interested in avoiding liability then doing the right thing, more interested in protecting perpertrators then holding them accountable, and more interested in secrecy and damage control then justice THEN the organiztion is accountable. They have washed their hands in the blood of the innocent lambs. The organization knows the truth and chooses the side of the evil ones, if they represent God on earth they need to do the RIGHT thing face up to the wrong say they have done the wrong thing and be accountable recognize the pain of the children and now adults and compensate them for all they have been through and will always go through. It would be so nice to think it was just one evil individual and that there is a happy ending for the organization and that they are still good and from God BUT as much as it hurts it is only evil that protects evil. Good stands up against evil not protects it.

M.A.N. Saturday, July 3, 2004
@ 11:04 AM
To L.L.B. re: Neat Post Jacob
Well put, LLB. I was going to abstain from this one, but I hate liars. Revelation lumps them in with some pretty disgusting sins, doesn't it?? If we allow the WT to get away with this garbage of deciding morality, then I can lie whenever I'm caught committing adultery, since I can say that the elders, "don't have a right to know". In fact, I could kill anyone whom I didn't like, including child molesters, especially the one who molested my child, by saying, "they don't deserve to live". How is that different than, "they don't deserve to know", that the WT uses when they tell a lie? Now I'm playing God, right? So is the WT, when they decide when and how to break God's laws and the laws in the Bible. That's why we have crime today, because everyone is deciding for himself who has what "rights". As I've said many times before, blasphemy or not, the rights of child abuse victims come before any other rights in the universe, including the right for "the sanctification of God's name". If He doesn't want reproach brought on it, then He should end this disgusting world and end child abuse. If He allows it, He's part of it. Superior authorities? How many times has that changed? If God is superior, then stop this insanity. And where in the Bible does it say that the WT is superior?? Yet they act like they own the planet. I can't wait until Caesar steps in, but good, and slams these religions (read WT) who think they are immune to obeying the law. And this isn't even Caesar's law. IT'S IN THE BIBLE!!! How can any group of supposedly sane, intelligent, moral (??), and caring people not be outraged at child abuse and do everything possible to prevent it instead of defending those who abuse others?? I can't wait until the day when I'm on national TV and I put out the question to the viewing audience how they feel, especially "you JW's out there", that thousands of your hard-earned contributed dollars are being used to publicly lie and slander innocent victims. I almost wish that some newspaper editor would do a story about the WT paying all that money to put ads in the paper that contained blatant and provable lies. I wish someone would sue the WT for slander, gossip, and libel.

M.A.N. Saturday, July 3, 2004
@ 11:21 AM
To pl
Very well put. It seems that objectively exposing the WT for its many crimes is the best way to go. Again, I apologize if I ever trounced anyone who came here ignorant of the facts and seemed to defend the WT. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope others do too. But once you absolutely and knowingly take a stand against this site and against the rights of abused children, you are no longer innocent and will be treated accordingly. One of the biggest shocks that the WT and JW's are going to see (briefly) at the end is that THEY didn't survive and those that they said wouldn't make it WILL. Even if the issue of child abuse is left out of the equation, the WT is still violating several Bible principles that Jesus warned could cost a person his life/salvation. Didn't he warn against pre-judging, calling people names (you despicable fool!), lying, putting right for wrong and wrong for right, and a host of other things? Even if no child abuse was occurring at all, the WT is still guilty of acting in an unChristian manner. Those of you who are gloating over the impending doom and death you so eagerly wish on abuse victims and those who post here to defend them, might find that "with the mercy that you are judging others, you will be judged with". What an irony that would be.

KL Saturday, July 3, 2004
@ 4:08 PM
RE: Margaret
I don't want and don't need an idiot like him praying for me. You honestly think that he cares enough to pray for abuse victime like myself? He wouldn't be on this website if he wanted Jehovah to hear his prayers. He is only doing this to make himself look good for phonies like yourself who believes his crap. Maybe you and he should get married or somehing, then you can sit around your bibles patting each other on the back and leave us true victims out of your hypocratic activities.

KL Saturday, July 3, 2004
@ 4:16 PM
Hey BIll....
I have a question for you, since you witnessed first hand what the WTBS is up to: The two witness rule, as stated in Deut 19:15 is the one the WTBS sticks by, right? Well, do they even acknowledge that chapter 22 specifically deals with SEX CRIMES, showing that these types of crimes have a special set of rules and punishments? The context of Chapter 19, verse 15-21 clearly shows that the two witness rule is in application to murder, manslayers, and the handling of bloodguilt, NOT sex crimes. How do they explain that?---------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-They ignore it when it comes to child abuse.

Jacob Sunday, July 4, 2004
@ 1:25 AM
to LLB
Although we believe the governments are a part of satan's world (2 Cor 4:4) Jehovah allows the courts and legal system to continue because they do good. Romans 13:1-6. They are God's agents in executing justice when they deal with sex perverts and other criminals. So you grossly misrepresented the beliefs of Jehovah's witnesses and my prayer was in harmony with Romans 13:1-4. To KL - I was praying for you too. If your claim is genuine then Im sure Jehovah wants you to succeed in court as He is a God of justice.

NN Sunday, July 4, 2004
@ 4:54 AM
Wolfes in sheeps skin
About the "Jacobs Praying for the victims" thing. It is not uncommon that witnesses or other religious persons use expressions like these to make themselves look better, but don't get fooled. This is nothing more than empty words. As it says in the Bible a person has to act in accordance with her/his words if the words are to be taken seriously. And a person, like Jacob, that is loyal to the teaching of the WT org is NOT acting in accordance with his so called prayer. And Yes the WT org is a pedophile paradise - If you are a pedophile and in the WT org it is obvious from what has been revealed worldwide that you can do "your thing" and - if you have good realtions to other male persons in the congregation - be quite certain of being protected by the congregation, even if the outside condems you. In short they do it because they know they can.

ilidio Sunday, July 4, 2004
@ 6:53 AM
To: maragaret & jacob
Margaret, while I was a Jehovahs Witness I heard again and again that faith without works is worth nothing. So, if you have an IQ of at least 25 you must know for a fact that Jacobs words were not more meaningful that a parrot doing bla bla bla. For his prayers to be heard he would have to back them by works. Like, join our side and condemn the monstrosities that have been allowed by the WTBTS. Like, approach the elders or the so-called Organization and ask them to change child abuse policies. Just like they say, one abused child is too many Till than, believe you me, his prayers are an insult to God and us. They remind us of the Pharisees that prayed in the corners of the roads to be visible to the people&&&&&&&&..What did Jesus called them??&&&&&&&&&My thoughts exactly.

ilidio Sunday, July 4, 2004
@ 12:58 PM
Jacob
Jacob, I seem to be a bit confused with your statement. On the first line of your comment you claim to believe that governments are part of Satans world. On the second line you boldly say they are Gods agents. What is what?? Are they Satans agents or Gods??? Serving 2 masters now!?!? Perhaps the WT had new light this past week?? I had a of lightning around my place, could the WT interpret that as new light?? Jacob, you are pathetic! Jacob, I tell my dog to fetch, role over, jump, sit down, lay down and many other tricks, he does all of that very happily. You remind me of my dog; after all you do the same for the WT. With only one difference though, I provide my dog with food, shelter and love. The WT does not provide you with anything, why than do it for them? If you can answer that question truthfully there might still be a chance for you to redeem yourself. Gladly to have been of service to you.

NN Monday, July 5, 2004
@ 2:50 AM
really bad woolves
To Jacobs new posting (that came in befor my last one): I am really fed up to my ears of hearing the perverted argumentation that because Jehova is a God of jutice abuse victims and persons, like my self, that hates to see all the wrongdoings that are going on among the WT people ought to be SILENTLY & PATIENTLY waiting on Jehova. Yes I am totaly convinced that Jehova will deal with the WT org and the rest of the worldwide oppressive system that calls itself religion. But I think it has - always through the ages - been one of the most perverted arguments of the religious leaders and their nonthinking slaves to tell people that want to see more true and honest religious practices and that want justice to be done that they ought to wait until they get to heaven or on the judgement of God. To me this argumentation shows the total lack of faith & humanity in these people and in thet way they are trampling the Golden Rule under their feet and showing their true nature as really bad wolves.

kimberly b Monday, July 5, 2004
@ 10:31 AM
to jacob
you know what sickens me about you and all those that think like you? You say that the government is part of satan's world. But your "Jehovah" allows the courts to remain because they do good. Doesn't your mind tell you that kind of statement is a double standard. The court systems are a major part of the government. It is mighty sickening how you people use the "wicked government" when it is convenient. You all hide behind this "wicked government" when you need to file a 301C tax ememption status. You all hide behind this "wicked govenment" when you need to sue someone over so-called slanderous statments when someone refers to your wicked organization as a cult- (which by the way it is)!! You all use the "wicked government" when you need to force people to recognize you cult has a real religion. You all use the "wicked government" to force people to respect you false doctrines, rules and regulations - such as your so called "rights" to hide pedophiles in your safe houses!! And by the way only your "jehovah" heard your prayer. My bible tells me that the real Jehovah only hears the prayers of the righteous and those with humble hearts as well as those who take care of the down-trodden, widows and orphans. So to put it in a nut shell the real Jehovah did not hear a word that you said. He does not listen to people like you. At least not until you humble yourself and follow in the footsteps of the Master. He (The Master) does not condone or approve of any one who commits the act of child rape or anyone that condones it!

pl Monday, July 5, 2004
@ 8:59 PM
was that a sincere prayer
first off jacob thankyou a guest book is really good when it is emotive it makes us think and have an opinion of our perceptions on things. This is MY thought i personally would prefer for you not to pray for victims that need strength as you were not invited too it is invasive and intrusive to pray for others in such a way, other religions do this too they say i'll pray for you personally it creeps me out. Jacob try praying between you and god and pray not for the victims but for the organization that they can come from love and honesty and not from fear. Pray perhaps the organization stands up against evil uncovers the wrong and protects children and SEES THEM AS IMPORTANT. Prevention may come from prayer BUT more likley from realism, from acknowledgmnet, from honesty and love. The way the society handles this is perhaps prayer, and definatley fear and it is fear that keeps child abuse alive, well and safe. The society out of fear hides the truth, wont acknowledge, denies the facts the children - and now adults out of this fear children are not protected only the abusers are protected.

avishai Monday, July 5, 2004
@ 11:42 PM
JACOB!!!!! :(
Here is your quote: "Our dear Father, Jehovah May the victims of child abuse have the courage to tell their parents or other responsible adults so that evil people will receive due punishment by the superior authorities (the police, courts and legal system) and also so that other children can be protected from these sick perverts" Yeah. That's the same game the WTS is playing. It's up to the parents and victims. But Caesar's law in most places says that clergy must report child abuse. Yet the wts ignores that and uses the 2 witness rule to break the law!!!

L.L.B. Tuesday, July 6, 2004
@ 11:24 AM
re: Jacob
Wow Jacob, lie number two for you about the courts being God's agents. You know darn well that is exactly contrary to what the JWs teach. You better hope God is not a baseball fan because 3 strikes and your out! As for you wishing me success in Court, I will say thank you but it's too late for that. Thanks to your cult who showed up in droves to testify on behalf of my ex-spouse on how great a parent my ex-spouse was, my children spent years of being subjected to physical and emotional abuse by my ex- spouse. Thanks to the group of lawyers from the Watchtower who represented my ex-spouse in deceiving the Courts the abuse of the children was covered up from the Court. After years of abuse the children were removed by Children's Aid and my ex-spouse was finally diagnosed for a psychological disorder no thanks to the WTBTS or it's members. So maybe you ought to pray that this cults action and cover-ups come to an end like we all are here at Silentlambs.

L Foster Wednesday, July 7, 2004
@ 1:07 AM
Just Signing Guestbook
I've been here a couple of times but never signed the guestbook. Really great information here.

M.A.N. Wednesday, July 7, 2004
@ 8:38 PM
To Jacob
You said on July 4th to LLB that Jehovah allows the courts and legal system to continue because they do good. You said they were part of Satan's system. If the courts do so much good, then why doesn't the WT abide by their decisions? If the courts decide against them, the WT screams bloody murder. If the courts agree with them, they say "Jehovah was vindicated". You can't have it both ways. When the courts find a person guilty of child abuse or rape, and they usually do so without 2 or more witnesses, the criminal is put in prison. Period. The court knows he's guilty, the victim knows it, the family knows it, and society knows it. The only people who don't know it are the JW's. How come you think you are smarter than therapists with Doctorate degrees? The WT has been so proud for decades that its members succeed in life without going to college, actually bragging that they didn't need higher education. Yet the WT presumes to argue with people who are experts in their fields. How in hell can a man who only graduated high school compete with a doctor or psychiatrist when it comes to child abuse? What training does this elder have? I thought higher education was mocked as not being needed? If the elder's so smart, why is he doing menial work for a living? Not that this is bad in itself, but it too often indicates his limitations. If the courts are there to execute justice, like you claim, then why doesn't the WT keep its nose out of the court's business? The man who raped my daugher denied it for months and had most of the congregation on his side. Faced with a indictment handed down by a grand jury (composed of ordinary citizens), he changed his tune and admitted he committed the crime. Did we receive an apology? Did anyone tell my child they were sorry for calling her a liar and a whore? Not a chance. JW's are always right, remember?? If you want to believe this manure, that's your choice, it's a free country. But the WT is digging its own grave, or as SL puts it, the drums are beating. When the head hunters are given free rein, I wonder how many JW's will be left? I warned my soon to be ex-wife today that in a few years, she will be risking her safety if she goes door to door in certain areas, due to the anger of righteous people, something the WT knows nothing about. I gave you leeway in the beginning because I thought you might not know the true story. But you were warned to educate yourself. I needn't remind you of the consequences of being found on the wrong side when God judges these animals. More than "justice" will be "executed" on that day. And I hope the government is very thorough in its work. Then maybe we can enjoy a world free of perverts and animals and those who defend them. No one grossly misrepresented the beliefs of JW's. Maybe some of you are so ignorant as to not know the facts. But what people here are concerned with is the policy of the WT and the behavior of the elders, not what you "worker ants" are being fed by means of the Watchtower magazine and other propaganda. Go to www.freeminds.org and you'll get a real education. And don't tell me it's an apostate site. So is this one to many people and that didn't stop you from visiting several times, did it?? Look up how the WT joined the UN and see what you've been lied to about for years. Read the stories of midnight DF'ing and kangaroo courts. This religion makes the Nazi SS people look like Sesame Street. The day it becomes a crime to read the truth, that's the day I curse any religion or God that kills people for thinking and trying, with sincere hearts, to learn the truth. YOU are the brainwashed people on this planet. YOU are the ones blinded by Satan, since you all serve him by acting the way you do. Open your eyes and your mind, if that's possible. You just might learn something here. You won't by listening to the WT. All they care about is $$$$$$. And I'm entitled to my opinion, although others let your prayer go by. Don't pray for us. Pray for yourself. Pray for the poor victims who have no one, sometimes not even their parents, to protect them. Pray for this crime to stop, but don't blow a trumpet like the Pharisees. If Jehovah cared, it wouldn't go on to the point of having to go to court. It wouldn't be occurring in the first place. Put the blame where it belongs. The victims have been blamed long enough. Soon they will get their revenge and I'll be right there to see it.

Wednesday, July 7, 2004
@ 9:37 PM
Some thoughts
On the news the other night it was mentioned that a Catholic diocese somewhere is going bankrupt due to the church scandal. Does anyone know more about this? Jehovah's Witnesses are told to "wait on Jehovah", that he will take care of all the abuse. Well, maybe that's exactly what he is doing through Silentlambs. Sometimes I think that what happens to the elders who handle the abuse cases is that their ability to feel compassion becomes numbed. Kimberly, I think you expressed some great thoughts. The same with others of you. Keep up the great work!

FRANKYBFC Thursday, July 8, 2004
@ 5:28 PM
BOX-WORLD-STEELHAMMER
Durch Zufall bin ich hier auf dieser Seite gelandet und bin wirklich begeistert. Dabei habe ich laengst nicht alles gesehen. Aber was ich sah, gefaellt mir ausnahmslos. Ein dickes Lob an den Webmaster! Weiter so... gut gedacht, gut gemacht, weiter so! FRANKYBFC ------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- --rough translation-By coincidence I landed here on this side and am really inspired. I did not see long everything. But which I saw, pleases me without exception. Thick praise to the Web master! Further so... well meant, well made, further so! FRANKYBFC

Klick mich www.FRANKYBFC.de

Tracy Friday, July 9, 2004
@ 5:10 PM

I would like to say that I am really glad to have found your site...I was abused by my JW parents...only to be 28 years old and not have a clue about life. They isolated me till i was 18 years old...beating my brothers and I daily. I was the only one sexually abused by my step father ( a ministerial servent)..the pain and hell that i have gone through is tremendous. I am working on forgeting the past and looking to my future..thanks for giving me someplace that i know i am not misunderstood.------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org we might have some additional suggestions.

M.A.N. Friday, July 9, 2004
@ 5:32 PM
Zu Frankybfc
Guten Nachmittag, vie geht es Ihnen? Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch. Ich habe drie Jahren im Oberschule gelehrt, aber Ich war vierzehn Jahre alt derzeitig. Jetzt, mein Alter est vier und funfzig. Darum, die Zeit verging. Bitte, wieder besuchen. Danke.

Jacob Saturday, July 10, 2004
@ 12:57 AM
2 Cor 4:4 and Romans 13:1-6
How about you all read those texts and see for yourselves that it is not hypocritical to pray that courts will make just and fair decisions on behalf of genuine victims of crime and put criminals away where they can do no harm. The courts are doing God's will when they do that. Two witnesses are not required when it comes to reporting a claim of child abuse to the police. Check out the many WT articles and letters quoted on this site. The two witness rule only applies to having grounds to DISFELLOWSHIP an accused person. It does not apply to MANDATORY reporting to legal authorities. Elders who have failed to uphold the Law of the land in this regard should rightly be taken to court and prosecuted. That was indeed whay my prayer said.

AWH Saturday, July 10, 2004
@ 3:09 PM
LAWSUITS
YOUR HOME PAGE LISTS 4 LAWSUITS IN CALI. AREN'T THERE MORE THAN THAT? ------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-more are listed on the legal page to date aproximately seventy have been filed todate.

Dawn Franco Sunday, July 11, 2004
@ 6:42 PM
Disfellowshipping for me.....
Disfellowshipping worked for me!! It's so nice to be out. The JW's did the best thing by disfellowshipping me. It's so amazing how clear things are once you're out. No words can express the relief and freedom I have to think for myself. No finger pointing and the right to actually search elsewhere for answers. Now if I could only get them to stop knocking on my door. But then again, they have to keep running on that treadmill to get their quota of hours done.

L.L.B. Sunday, July 11, 2004
@ 11:55 PM
re: Jacob
You know what Jacob, I'm going to pray for you :)

Jacob Monday, July 12, 2004
@ 3:29 AM
Carr and Jackson
Carr is very much in dandger of being df if he is unnecessarily associating with Michael Jackson now.

avishai Monday, July 12, 2004
@ 12:03 PM
So, Jacob.
I applaud your sentiments. So, I ask. Will the courts still be doing god's will if they find against the WTS for it's corrupt policies?

NN Monday, July 12, 2004
@ 6:40 PM
To Jacob
Praying without believing, is a total waste of time and effort. And You Jacob have no belief cause if You had You would understand what all our posting means. As it is You are so wrapped up in the WT doctrine that You can't tell tail from head.

pl Monday, July 12, 2004
@ 10:37 PM
house, black road, kingdom hall
Abuse comes in many forms and there wouldn't be very many Jehovahs Witness children that weren't abused and are still being abused, I personally know so many children and adults that were not only sexually abused but physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Three friends have died one from an eating disorder, one from neglect and one murdered by her witness husband, the road leading to life is very twisted and narrow indeed, besides the ones that have died there, are the damaged ones the ones that grew up to be drug dealers, prostitutes, some in mental institutions, some that are still Witnesses not able to survive in the world, so many living their lives without being able to work, some married though so unhappy, some without children still not able to have children for fear of having them in the last days, most without education, most without hope or futures. How many times have I heard Armageddon is nearly here, just around the corner, we are in the final hour, the last days, it will be here tomorrow, next week, wait on Jehovah. How many have not seen their children get married or their grand children, how many do not have friends, how many are so damaged that they can't function in society, how many commit suicide. Not able to associate with the world but not accepted in the witness world either. My brother just told me the other day all he ever knew was his house a black road and a kingdom hall and that is all our parents still know. They don't even know us and the pain we have suffered and still suffer they have no capacity for knowing, they follow the lead of the elders with their denial and total lack of care and empathy, wait on Jehovah oh my God - too many have suffered, still suffering and even dying. They preach a loving religion one of hope and eternal life in a paradise, and yet for most there was no love no hope and where is this eternal life in paradise. This sounds so depressing and it is, so before any more suffer the organization needs to wake up out of their false facade of love and hope and acknowledge the damage their lies and hypocrisy has caused. They need to openly accept that many lives have been ruined and compensate for this they need to openly recognize the damage they have done so that millions now living can start a process of true healing.

AK Tuesday, July 13, 2004
@ 7:28 AM
Abuse of another sort!
After having been active witnesses for over 30 years, my wife and I have suffered abuse of another type that issues forth from the Brooklyn Ivory Towers. We are being unscripturaly shunned by the local congregation. True, we have left off association there a year or so back, due to our personal crisis of conscience. But we are guilty of no crime, have never been interviewed (or perhaps interrogated is a better word) by the elders, charged with any wrongdoing in our entire lives. We have of course never been DA'd or DF'd, publicly or privately reproved, reprimanded, or rebuked. Our views of the hypocrisy of the WTBTS, especially in the area or true love of the brothers has perhaps leaked out to some. About 4 months ago I began to be treated as if DF'd when I met various locals in the public. Witnesses that I had known and loved for decades would not speak to me, return phone calls or emails. My 'best friend' of 20 years (whom I had studied with and brought into the 'truth') would ride by on his bike (a typical poor witness) and never speak. But the absolute proof that Christ could not be with these people came just a couple weeks back when my Mother died. She was an inactive witness too. Two witnesses came to the funeral home. One, I had made special invitation to get there, the other was a true friend (in spite of his religion). All others stayed away! No cards, letters, phone calls, or flowers from the entire congregation. All these 'Christians' knew my inactive mother for decades. They all were my personal friends and companions until just a short time back. So now, I deal with the loss of Mom and the punitive and unkind attitudes and actions of these 'brothers' in a great time of need. If there was ever a time that they might have altered my opinion of their hypocrisy it would have been during this time of grief. They could have proven that they had true love of the sort that Jesus spoke about, but they proved to be false even to a friend of 30 years. For what reason? Because they did just what they Df victims of child abuse for (as they claim), slander. They had to have slandered my name behind the scenes for all in the congregation to have acted together in such hatefulness. Yet since such slander issues from the Superfine apostles at the head of the congregation, it must be ok! But if it comes from a child who has been raped by an elder or another in the flock then that little innocent one must be Df'd to protect the flock from knowing the facts!!! WHAT AMAZING HYPOCRITES!!!! And this week, following the abandonment of a 'brother in need', they are all joyfully attending some convention with the word LOVE in the title. The victims of this lack of love will continue to suffer in pain while these self righteous ones pat themselves on the back as they dream of being the only true Christians on earth, and salve their consciences with an event! To them, love is a noun, just a word. To those that truly know the Christ, love is a verb, intense with action toward those that need comfort and care. Rest assured victims; the Father knows what you need, as does His Son. May He be with all those who have been a victim of miscarried 'theocratic' justice. Real Theocratic justice will come in your behalf! Jeff

NN Tuesday, July 13, 2004
@ 4:08 PM
To pl
I totally agree with you! I think this whole organization is a shame!! One of the best things of leaving was to be able to leave all misery in the congregation behind, that is since they denounce me I can stop worrying about them with a clear conscience. And to Jacob, I think You ought to contact Bethel and tell them what you think about the brother defending Jacko, and we'll see who is in the risk of being dfed. Another thing isn't it quite horrible to have an abbreviation like df, it's like calling - at least if you believe in it as the witnesses do - a death sentence, ds. I think this fondness of abbreviations is a symptom of the arrogance and lack of spirituality in the Watchtower organization.

the mole Tuesday, July 13, 2004
@ 5:51 PM
tracy
***the mole*** hi Tracy...your story hit a soft spot for me..my cousins and their step sister Tracy suffered the same way you did..my uncles second wife committed suicide and his third came in with her daughter and held her back until she was 18..my cousins suffered so much...I have written a lot about abuse in its many forms on this site but the mental one is the hardest to explain..my cousins told their horrible stories and no one believed but I did...until my uncles second daughter hung herself then my family began to question if the rumors were true or not...his third wife and step daughter Tracy suffered as well from the mental abuse...the worst is that I fell in love with her later on but her trauma was so severe she rebelled in the worst way and left for years..she's married now but time sometimes doesnt heal as we hope..my confusion is why my cousin mike would return to the meetings after everything he suffered..but pressure from his dad and our family he buckled and gave in...good luck to you..

Juan Chavez Tuesday, July 13, 2004
@ 10:20 PM
Watchtower's policy on child abuse.
Hi everyone! My name is Juan Chavez. I am not a Jehovah's Witnes; don't have a religion, but I would like to say that how I became aware of covered up child abuse by Watchtower was two years ago when I saw NBC's Dateline coverage on child abuse going on Jehovah's Witnesses Congregations(churches) and how the Watchtower governing board and the legal department in it's headquarters located in Brooklyn, NY is responsible for all this by: 1. They control all the congregations (churches) worldwide and they set all the rules and policies from their headquarters in Brooklyn, NY. To put it simple; the Watchtower governing board has a very tight grip and control of all the congregations. 2. The Watchtower governing board in it's headquarters sets all the rules and policies that all congregations must follow; no exceptions. But, talking about how learned about this is when I watched Dateline, was while I was watching this episode I saw a very high number of victims revealed and how Watchtower very despicably covered up child abuse and shuns their victims and families when they go to the police, due to their policy not allowing them to do that. And after I saw this episode, I went to Google and typed: Jehovahs Witness abuse, and got silentlambs.org as a first hit and accessed this website, and unexpectedly found "ALOTE" of information, especially in the videos section, that I never knew about the amount of child abuse that exists in the Jehovah's Witness Religion due to Watchtower's policy on handling child abuse and not going to the police (law enforcement) and how the victims have been very hurt and injured by Watchtower's policy. I would also like to say that Watchtower's policy of not going to the police when an incident of child abuse occurs is not only wrong but very dangerous because: 1. Elders are not trained in handling child abuse, but mostly, they are NOT police or law enforcement officers to prosecute child abusers and child molesters. 2. Their policy does not let victims of abuse tell other members of the congregation that there's a child abuser, child molester in their congregation, and once again this puts other members in high danger. And worst of all, their policy protects and harbors criminals. I also want to say that I knew some people throughout my life that are Jehovah's Witnesses and still know a few, they sometimes talked, and still talk about their religion to other people, and it seems that these people that I've known don't have anywhere of a clue of the child abuse that's going on in the Jehovah's Witness Religion due mostly to the Watchtower's governing board policy that doesn't let members of this religion that are victims of abuse tell other members on what's going on: to put it this way they manage this issue by secrecy. And another thing that is very bad is that the governing board lies and misleads members on their handling of child abuse and I think they don't even tell their members on what their exact policy is on child abuse is until a child becomes a victim of abuse. Also to the public, such as the media, they don't tell us exactly what their policy is, instead they lie to us by twisting this issue with words and made up stuff. It's like to say: "The Watchtower is one person in the outside and another person in the inside".

Margaret Wednesday, July 14, 2004
@ 12:11 AM
to pl
I was raised in the truth and I had kind loving parents and now have children and grandchildren of my own. People like me are the rule, not the exception. In all my life as a JW Ive only ever known of 2 cases of child abuse in 2 of the 8 congregations Ive associated with where my father was an elder. In both cases the offenders were reported to police and jailed. One case was 30 years ago, the other about 23 years ago. My husband and I have been happily married for 35 years. Our kids are not in the truth - they were never baptized - but they are well adjusted and happy girls with kids of their own. My husband and I hope they will come back to Jehovah and like with Jesus' parable of the prodigal son, the door is always open to them.

ilidio Wednesday, July 14, 2004
@ 7:21 AM
To:PL
PL, I loved your last post. I was once in that situation and basically I worked and went to the kingdom hall. I had no life outside those perimeters. It is so sad that witnesses live a life without living a life. We can just compare them with the inmates that are currently in prison. I am in Europe on vacation but whenever I find a computer I have to come to Silentlambs. This site has been an inspiration to me and my wife since we decided to leave the JWs. I hope that many people come to this site and really see for themselves how much a sad life the JWs live. I feel especially sorry for the children that are raised within the org, as they never will have the chance to experience life to the full. Actually I am happy that our situation of abused was neglected for many years by the society, even though it was very very hard, it was what made us leave the org. I am thankful for that, otherwise I would still be there today, all brain washed following those fools. Silentlambs, please keep up the good work.

kim Wednesday, July 14, 2004
@ 9:33 AM
a victim
I was 16 years old when the top elder at the congregation I was a member of began to make sexual advances towards me, he was 47 years old. When it was finally found out by others, I was the one who was shunned and he went on to be accepted as an elder again. My problem was exacerbated by the fact I had a mentally ill abusive mother. The problem exists, it is real and I hope this web site can help those who have been abused.

QB Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 1:19 AM
Picketing/Protesting
There are a few of us trying to organize simultaneous (or nearly so) rallies at District Conventions across the United States (and anywhere else). While the convention season is winding down, there are still some opportunities remaining. July 30-Aug 1:16 cities. Aug 6-8: 14 cities. Aug 13-15: 11 cities. Aug 20-22: 9 cities. Aug 27-29: 6 cities. Sept: 4 cities. If you can approach a Kingdom Hall or Assembly Hall, or the District Convention, for just a few minutes during lunchtime holding a sign or a handout it would help immensely, or even help get the word out to the press or Internet. We had 16 cities Sept 02,last time we did this, perhaps we can break that record this year. We have been picketing, haven't put it on the web yet. Keep your chins up, all!!!!

Cheri Romero Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 8:31 PM
Just some personal thoughts
About Jacob: Okay, I am soooooo tired of seeing this Jacob person on this guest book that I may throw up!!!! First of all, he is not supposed to be on here because it is an "apostate" site. And secondly, he is really pissing me off. With some people it takes first hand knowledge to be able to relate to a situation. Well Jacob, I wouldnt wish molestation or rape even on you!!! Or is that what it would take for you to shut the hell up and realize what the society is doing to us here? About Margaret: I havent seen her post in a few days but when she did post.....OH MY GOD!!! Woman? Who are you to say anything about what some policy means or what the rules are? YOU ARE A WOMAN!!!! NOTHING YOU SAY CAN BE CONSTRUED AS TRUE OR CONCRETE!!! Women have no say on anything. Hell, they are told what to believe and what to do and they have nothing to do with what rules are made or what decisions come about. So how can you sit there and quote policy and doctrine to this group? Why dont you shut up and just gain knowledge? Research! Learn! Maybe you will apologize later. BUT SHUT THE HELL UP FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE.

Cheri Romero Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 8:43 PM
About Margaret
Okay, I take back that last post where I said that I Havent seen her on here in a few days. There she is big as life!! Margaret, YOU ARE THE EXCEPTION NOT THE RULE! Who do you think you are? Do you really believe that out of every person on this site that you are the rule? You are calling all of us liars!! And by the way, why are your daughters ALL out of the religion? Something is keeping them out! Maybe they were also molested by some pervert elder in one of your 8 congregations! Worth looking into I would think. And you are NOT supposed to be on this site. Why are you on here so often? Does your husband know that you are frequenting this site? You are setting such a bad example of a good and dutiful JW wife and member. Quite frankly, I am sick to death of seeing your uneducated and imbecile posts on here. Go away woman until you re- educate yourself.

Gabriel Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 10:49 PM
Lawsuits
How much money do you guys think is enough to settle out of court for years of molestation? I am thinking of suing, but not sure if I should just muster up the courage and talk to the pervert about settling. He has money - How much should I ask for?

Jacob Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 11:16 PM
df
To NN: It's not a death sentence. If you read 1 and 2 Corinthians you can see that the immoral man who was df was later reinstated because he repented.

Margaret Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 11:24 PM
to all genuine victims of edlers who have failed to act
Im not calling any of you liars and like Jacob I pray that you will get justice and the elders who mistreated you will pay for their negligence. As to whether or not I come to this guestbook. Not all on here have been disfellowshipped, and not all are apostates. Hence it is up to my conscience whether I post here and I do so for the benefit of honest ones as I find some of the allegations against the WTS to be misleading and sensationalism rather than factual. eg the estimated number of 30,000 on the US pedophile register means that 1/33 JW's in the US is on that register. Hardly!!

Margaret Thursday, July 15, 2004
@ 11:29 PM
to Cheri
I have only two daughters. They have made their own choices in life. Neither have been molested by ANY adult and I did instruct them many years ago ( aged about 5-7) to tell me if anyone ever touches their private parts. One likes to read the Bible and the WT publications. The other is not married to her partner and so feels since she is not willing to marry him that she does not want the truth at present. But I pray for both of them every day.

NN Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 3:03 AM
About Margareth & Jacob
These persons, or aliases, are quite typical for persons in organizations like the WT. Persons that are like the three monkeys, don't see, don't hear, don't talk. Well what is very clear from the Bible is that such persons will not inherit the paradise cause they are disgusting cowards! About Margaret, so you say you have the right to be here, please do inform your elders about this and tell us what they told you. From my own experience this sight is a no go area for loyal witnesses (except of course if you are an elder). And to Jacob, a df is a death sentence, in all respects, or to use modern terms it is like a prisoner condemned to death, but the death sentence is not yet administered, you have quite a lot of them in your USA prisons if I'm not mistaken. And exactly like such prisoners no one "loyal" can talk to or have anything to do with them so in a way they are exiled or in a kind of symbolic prison. And this is what I have really come to hate with this organization their double talk, behaving cruelly and unempathetic towards persons they do not like for some reason but talking sweet to the outside. That was one reason why I did not want to continue to be part of such a disgusting organization. Which brings me to my conclusion, well M and J you say you pray for us but in fact it is you that needs praying for.

MA Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 6:10 AM
To Jacob
Have you ever read the account in 1 and 2 Corinthians? You may notice that the words disfellowship and reinstatement do not appear here. You may like to look these words up in your concordance (thats the word thingy at the back of the Bible) and check out who practiced such things (ironic associations). Now read 1 and 2 Corinthians using your own mind (you know like your English teacher taught you) and see if what happened there relates to the practice of disfellowshipping as executed by a local gaggle of Jehovahs Witness elders

ilidio Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 8:25 AM
To: margaret
Margaret, it is time for you to shove the prayers up you a** and get the f$$$$$ out of here. your comments are dumb as s*** and really annoying. Haven't the elders told you that the time you spend on this site would be better spent going from door to door annoying people. If you are here to convert us you are not being successful. You are in fact annoying us more. The "JW´s" remind me of a pair of testicles, they keep knocking on the door but never get in. Go and preach to your children and leave us the hell alone. On second though, if you were not successful in keeping your children there, makes me wonder what type of parents you are. Think about it, dig a hole in the ground and disappear.

M.A.N. Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 9:09 AM
To Margaret
You may mean well, but you said something very revealing. You said your kids were grown and well adjusted and happy. But they aren't baptized and you consider them out of the truth and hope they return. If they are happy and well- adjusted and aren't active, what does that tell you? And just because YOU don't know of many cases of abuse, doesn't mean they didn't happen. I stand by all I've posted and I fully defend SL and everything it does. We have the proof, you have dreams.

Cheri Romero Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 9:36 AM
Margaret
I too spoke with my daughter when she was very young and instructed her to tell us if this happened to her and I instructed my sons also. But as with most molest cases, the children were still afraid to tell and most are afraid to tell even in spite of instruction from their parents. Pull your head out of the sand or your a** whichever the case may be and stop being in denial. And you still are NOT supposed to be here on this site. You make me sick with your mimmicking the wtbs b******t.

AK Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 4:04 PM
To Margaret
You seem to me to be a typical witness. You are probably a good and decent person, who tried hard to raise good and decent children in the 'truth'. After a lifetime of being a part of this organization, you cannot allow yourself to see the 'truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth'. All of your thinking is 'filtered' thru the Watchtower. Original thoughts are nearly illegal in the WTBTS. You refuse, as I did until a year or so back to accept that the organization would misrepresent anything intentionally. My leaving the organization after 35 years had nothing to do with awareness of the child-rape issues dealt with here. My exposure to these grave matters came later. Do you want to know what made me come to the conclusion that this is not the truth (even though such conclusion has left me entirely alone and without any support structure in my life)? It was an examination of the society's own publications. I found there literally hundreds of lies, misinformation, and doctrine that originated with Russell's infatuation with pyramidology, phrentology, and self worship. That was then, and this is now, you will be saying. But the entire claim of this being the one and only truth originates then, not now. Take any topic, the one I found intriguing was the society's insistence on the date 607 BCE as the year of Jerusalem's destruction by Babylon. Try to find one shred of evidence to support that date. Not a single source will give any credence to that date. There are massive amounts of information that will show that the likely date for that event is 587 BCE. But if you do the research and tell anyone you did so you will be disfellowshipped as an apostate. Not because the society is right - they are not - But because you dare to think! Any other topic will do! You have never been allowed to think - have you? You don't know where to start the process - do you? I know, because I had the same situation. Thirty-five years later I had to leave - not because I think that JW's are bad people - but because my conscience will not allow me to haughtily claim God's exclusive love, when support for that is hollow. I do not seek to 'convert' you - I have nothing to convert you to. I only ask that you allow yourself to think fairly on this issue or child-rape. Do you doubt that your organization would mislead you? Then check on this; the week before the Dateline item aired on national tv, all in the congregation were read a letter stating that we should not watch the program due to the fact that it was the statements of 'disfellowshipped apostates'. Fact (and this can be confirmed if you like); not a single participant in the interviews that were aired were disfellowshipped until AFTER the program aired. You and I were lied to. It made me try to find out why - what will it do for you? Jeff

M.A.N. Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 6:05 PM
To Margaret
This is in harmony with Cheri's and AK's comments to you. My wife (now divorcing me for "spiritual endangerment", and where did Jesus approve of that?), is a nurse. I went to college to be a elementary school teacher and am now obtaining a degree in Psychology. We certainly spoke to my daughter about the need to tell us if anyone, even her uncles or grandfathers, ever touched her. We went over the whole deal. She is an extremely gifted person, and has a high IQ. So there was no lack of warning her. But child abuse (she was raped for 4 years from 9 years old till she was able to come forward at 13) is not about knowing it's not nice, it's about seduction and the abuser winning the child's trust. And as Cheri said, I don't care about your conscience. This site is a place for victims of abuse to find comfort and help. If it is not wrong for me to say so, I believe that the main person(s) running this site are DF'd. So I believe the WT would not take kindly to your being here. If you want to find out, why don't you tell them you post here regularly and see what they say? As far as AK is concerned, I was nearly DF'd myself over 607 BCE. I also insisted it was 586 BCE, as all historians attest to. There isn't a shred of proof for the WT date. They just need it to be so in order to add 2520 years to it and arrive at 1914. And 1914 was not predicted for Armageddon, it was predicted for the END of everything, and Russell stood on top of a building all night waiting to be taken to Heaven. He should have been taken to a lunatic asylum instead. I believe their date was October 1, a Thursday. The congregations didn't even schedule meetings or talks for that weekend coming up because "we won't be here". Well, guess what?? IT'S 90 YEARS LATER!!!! The WT asked new people to test out what it taught and said they had the truth because they knew God's will. Really?? NOT ONE THING THEY EVER PREDICTED CAME TRUE, NOT EVEN JESUS TAKING KINGDOM POWER!!!! And don't say he did, you can't prove it. In all intellectual pursuits, the burden of proof lies with the one making the statement. I don't have to prove he didn't come, you have to prove he did. Do you have a video of his arrival? Can I go visit him and see for myself?? Case closed. I can claim to be 200 years old or say I'm Napoleon. It doesn't make it so. If you are so fond of visiting sites you shouldn't, go to www.freeminds.org and check out the link about the prediction timeline from 1799 onward. And check out the outrageous medical claims the WT made over the years. I almost broke a rib laughing until I realized how many innocent people were hurt by this. They advocated raw milk, tons of fresh sunshine (can you spell cancer?) and bobbing up and down naked to take an "air bath". If you want to read idiocy, then read their old material from the Awake. It's the best comic book I know.

M.A.N. Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 6:23 PM
To Margaret
This needed to be broken up so as not to be too long. I left out that when I faced my judicial committee, they knew I was suffering from depression and was distraught with grief over what happened to my child and that my wife and child moved out because I did research on the Internet and discovered what I know now. The elders never tried to help me, there was no prayer or family therapy, no attempt to talk my wife into going to family counseling, nothing. They heard I read Ray Franz's books and they were going to get me. They tried to make me crawl on my belly not to be DF'd (I was only reproved), but I wouldn't do it. I told them that anyone treating me unfairly would answer to me personally. I promised to be good for now on, so I will, but they all knew what I meant at the time. The case with them and the case with the abuser was NOT going to be settled in court. In the words of my favorite person, "I made them an offer they couldn't refuse." You will note I was NOT DF'd. I now have forsworn violence and I have since decided I can do more good by writing a book in the near future and exposing these pigs and their lies. I'll go on TV, the Internet (I'm a network engineer and know how to maximize the Internet for a huge exposure) and any other means available. But your precious WT will just sit there and deny it. They bash the Catholics, but at least they now admit it and are paying out damages. The WT will never do that, because they are never wrong. Just ask them. If a mob of 50,000 people surrounded Bethel and burned it to the ground, they would stand inside chanting prayers and believing they were dying for Jehovah and the "truth". Total horse manure. And I think you know it, Margaret. You don't sound like a complete idiot, but you are very ignorant. And don't waste your time rebutting me. I've done more research than you'll ever be able to do in your lifetime and I'm more intelligent than you are, and what's most important, I'M RIGHT!!!!!! Listen to AK, he is very accomplished in his presentation of the facts and his sincerity, something the WT will never have. IF THE WT TELLS LIES, THEN IT IS NOT THE TRUTH AND NEVER WAS. PERIOD!! When you get that through your head, then you will understand. You are the victim of psychological, cultish emotions. "I'm saved, and you're not!! Ha ha." JW's also thrive on persecution, they just eat it up. That's not the Jesus I see in the Bible. You celebrate the future death of six billion people because they won't convert to being JW's after hearing your nonsense for 20 seconds at their door. They should die eternally for this?? This is your God of mercy and love?? And many will never hear, because they live where JW's aren't allowed. I prefer Adolph Hitler, he would have killed a fraction of what you say Jehovah will in the near future. Open your eyes and see the real truth. You are wasting your life and the time of people who are trying to prevent further abuse and suicides. Now go away.

Margaret Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 8:59 PM
re Bible chronology
For those of you who may have been misled by the generally accepted date of 537BC for the destruction of Jerusalem: According to the prophets Isaiah, Jeremiah (Isaiah 23:17 Jeremiah 25:11) and the Jewish historian Josephus the time between the burning of the temple and the reign of Cyrus was 70 years not 50. Josephus gives 22 years for the reign of Evil Merodach (Amil-Marduk) - this is based on Greek historical records which are in turn based on dating by Olympiads. Ptolemy's canon gives Evil Merodach a reign of only two years, basing this on an eclipse of the moon. But eclipes of the moon are frequent and certainly not a reliable dating method. Hence the WTS correctly dates the destruction of Jerusalem to 607 and not 537 BC. And counting the "seven Gentile times" of Daniel we get 1914 for the date that the horsemen of the Apocalypse Rev chapet 6) began their ride. Jesus as King first followed by gobal war, global famine and economic depression and global disease epidemics. Compare Matt 24:1-14

John Lynn Terry Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 9:06 PM
Disbelief.......
I was disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming a christian. Sexual relations while not being bound by marriage. I find it hard to believe that the elders would allow pedophiles in the organization and turn a blind eye to them when I was removed for conduct unbecoming a christian. Don't get me wrong, I deserved to be removed because I did it again after being warned. But I do not believe that there is so much molestation going on in Jehovah's organization especially towards children. It is just not possible, I think. And some children have been known to lie before. Even if there are a few cases, it represents a world problem which may have spilled over. Then again there is the 2 witness rule. How can one get past that

KH Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 9:31 PM
To Gabriel
Gabriel you asked how much money you should ask for to settle out of court with your abuser. First I have a couple questions about your situation that may help you decide if you even want to settle out of court. 1). Have you gone to the authorities about this person? 2.) Do you have an Attorney? 3). Are you willing to go to trial or do you just want this over and done with? 4). Has the statue of limitations expired on your case? 5). If this person molested you don't you think that there might be other victims? 6). Why not make the WBTS and all the JW's pay for their cover-up instead of taking hush money? Why not have your day in court and make them all pay for the injustice that has been done to you? And at the same time you will be exposing the JW's for who they truly are and who knows maybe you will be saving another child. Good Luck

Margaret Friday, July 16, 2004
@ 11:50 PM
to MAN
You have been very rude and belligerent here - are you treating your wife the same way? If so then that is emotional abuse.

k Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 1:09 AM
to margaret
You sure have a candy-coated life!!! Don't be so sure that nothing ever happened to your daughters. I'm in my early forties and still tell my mom things from the past that I had never told her. When you are young you don't have the nerve to speak up. My brother molested my sister and as far as I know he was only talked to--not even reproved. I have a friend who was molested by her brother. I was sexually harassed by my father-in-law. When I finally got the nerve to talk to the elders, the first thing they said was "what were you wearing"!!!!!!!! Imagine that!!! I was pregnant with my son when it started! When I was 17 two elders left me in a car with a man that was studying. It was dark and I was left there for 45 minutes with this guy that I did not know! Nothing happened, but how would you like that done to one of your daughters???!!! Were they looking out for my safety?! You say you don't believe the numbers---HA---I could tell you more stories!! By the way, my mother-in-law believed me, but in the next breath said she would do nothing about it. Worst of all my husband did not believe me!!

NN Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 3:04 AM
About JLT
I would not be surprises if JLT is an "aka", sincerely I hope this is the fact otherwise this person is really most pitiable since yes it is a fact that the WT org gladly expelles sinner like JLT but protects, and defend, pedophiles. They are simply practicing what Jesus called spitting out flies, swallowing camels.

M.A.N. Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 6:27 AM
To Margaret
This is the last response I will make to you. I did decide to be kinder to people who deserved it or not, but you don't qualify. You are a certified moron. Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 BCE, not 537 BCE. The issue is that it is not 607 BCE, but 586 BCE. Can't you read??? The WT has twisted scriptures to fit their purpose. No where in the Bible does it say that a year for a day applies to 2,520 years leading to 1914. And if you'll research the writings of Russell, you'll see that the WT predicted that 1914 would be the END of the system, not the beginning of a generation countdown, which failed anyway and was abandoned like all the rest of the garbage they predict. Around 1905 and a few years after, Russell even wrote that he didn't see how the world could even make it till 1914. It was only after 1914 that the WT started to lie and say that all along they had said that 1914 would mark the beginning of the end. THAT IS A LIE!!! I invite anyone else who has read the old material to back me up. And as far as being belligerent is concerned, my baby girl was raped at 9 years old for 4 years straight!!! You heartless b****, can't you even feel for her grief and pain, or mine, or my wife's?? Do you know what it's like to realize that your precious child will never remember chasing butterflies or fireflies in the summer because her playtime was filled with being assaulted? Will never remember playing with her dolls without remembering how the police used dolls to have her show them what happened?? You heartless b****!! And you aren't fit or qualified to judge me or my wife. Our problems are not your business. If you are an active JW defending these perverts, you will die with them. Be thankful I am not like I was before. Under the Mosaic Law, the abuser, his family who knew, and all the elders who knew and covered it up would be dead today, and my arm would have thrown each stone. Back then, if you were part of the cover-up, you'd be in the pit also and I would get to fling a rock at your stupid head. Now I've had enough of you. Call your proctologist and ask him to help you to find your head. You are one of the most ignorant, idiotic people I've ever encountered. You make me sick. Cheri, ilidio, and others, please speak up. Emotional abuse?? Who made you a therapist?? That's my field. Anyone would feel rage if their child was called a whore and a liar by elders, pioneers, and ministerial servants. I will have my day in court, and I don't mean court. I mean what I will do to settle things, not what some stupid judicial committee did, which was to ignore how everyone treated my child. She is in weekly therapy and has attempted suicide. If she succeeds, I swear on my mother's grave I will personally kill the abuser and the 4 other people who knew he was doing it and didn't tell me for four years. NO ONE WILL STOP ME!!! And spare me your moronic speeches about taking the law into my own hands, for these people deserve to die. Now this time I really mean it. GO AWAY AND GO TO HELL!! And if Hell has any class, they won't even take you at all.

M.A.N. Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 7:00 AM
To John Lynn Terry
First of all, the elders don't "allow" pedophiles in, they come in secretly. Secondly, the elders half the time wouldn't recognize a pedophile if he wore a sign, and even if he did, many would still welcome him. They need the attendance figures, they might "save" him, and he might give money to the hall. You may not believe the truth, but in fact there is MORE molestation going on than anyone knows, even us. I am a psychology major and it's called the "iceberg principle". There is always more beneath the surface than is visible to the eye. Some authorities estimate that only 10% of all abuse is reported or known about, so you do the math. Children RARELY lie about this. The few who do might be a 16 year old girl who is angry at her father because he won't buy her a car, so she calls the cops and says he molested her. Most of the time, the kid is caught in the lie. Out of every 10,000 cases reported, 9,999 actually occurred. And another 40,000 might not have even been reported. So you can see it's more than you think it is, not less. And if it's a world problem that spilled over(?), then it's still a worldwide problem, so why do you say it's only a few?? There is no two witness rule for child abuse. I WILL SAY THIS ONE LAST TIME!! THE TWO WITNESS RULE DOESN'T APPLY TO SEXUAL ASSAULT!!! Read Deut. 22, verses 25 to 27. Notice that if a girl was attacked and no one was there to help her, she was innocent BUT THE MAN WAS KILLED!! Get it?? NO TWO WITNESSES!! Who would rape or abuse a child in front of anyone else?? And all of you conveniently forget that the Mosaic Law ended with Jesus. It is no longer in force. No matter what the WT says, IT DOESN'T APPLY!!! So stop quoting this jackass two witness rule. If they killed the man on just the word of the woman, then they must have believed her. Why don't they believe the abuse victims today?? They are hypocrites, that's why. So, now we "got past the two witness rule". Any questions??

the mole Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 2:38 PM
foolishness surround us
Loyalty to the org? the assertion that loyalty to the org is a must even to repeat foolish dates, time, and biased chronology. Organizational loyalty concept taught by the Watchtower supplants the very personal relationship with God found in the statements of Jesus. There is not the slightest indication in the account that Christ thought in those terms of an organization or viewed the matter as a question of organizational loyalty. His concern was for loyalty to the person, God. We must not read into the scriptures something which in not there. One must indeed make a choice here, choosing by which source he will be guided. The Truth? whose truth? Their truth or what is written in the bible? Errors made and no apologies, no retraction! False testament and tacking from the magazines from the simple words in the bible has misguided many. There is no doubt the org tried to cover up and deceive many on abuses and pedophilia. The question should be why? Why is everybody apostate who questions many of the orgs quotes, lectures, and elders decisions. Is this a way to silence the masses and continue to take their money. Why would the regular active witness have to be told it was Satan and to ignore the real truth but given incorrect information such as the changed views of 1914? Those hurt by men in a position of authority have no means to seek an apology, especially when these men are not educated in any form but always have advice and no love to comfort the help the truly ill. A man made organization is the answer, not inspired of Christ of God. Our hearts God will seek out. God will seek out the good hearted person not those praying for a destruction but those praying for forgiveness as Christ done on the stake. Twisted minds have twisted the real truth. This site is for those seeking comfort who have been abused not fools arguing on stupidity...***the mole***

KL Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 4:40 PM
RE: NN's comments
You say, "this sight is a no go area for loyal witnesses (except of course if you are an elder)" - But aren't the Elders supposed to lead by example? So if they can be here, how do they have a right to tell us we can't? I am reminded of the scripture that says "Let him who THINKS that he is standing beware that he does not fall." With all the elders standing at this "apostate" site, the fall ought to be a joy to watch! And it is these same "spiritual leaders" who are to afraid to lead me now! What a joke!

KL Saturday, July 17, 2004
@ 5:06 PM
TO: M.A.N. part 2
I really mean no offense by this, but will you please quit telling us how many degrees you have, and that you are a this and a that? We do appreciate your thoughts and I am greatly grieved for your daughter. But I, and possibly others here, were molested by people with such credentials, so that really makes no difference to us, possibly even actually casting a negativity on your accomplishments, which of course is not your goal. All we need is to comfort each other as equal victims in this disgusting arena. Your contributions to this guest book are not validated because of your education, but because you feel the pain and torment that we also feel every day. I, too, lost four years of my childhood to a sick perverted spirit-appointed elder, and would love to take matters in my own hands. But it IS in the courts now, something that I am unable to elaborate on at this time, and am hoping that all will end in my favor this time. Please be careful with what you say on this site, for you do not want to incriminate yourself. Although we all know that you were just joking, right :)? Your daughter lost her childhood to these jerks, she does not need to lose her daddy too because of them. And we don't want to lose you either.

Margaret Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 1:18 AM
rudeness
MAN is of such a nasty nature that he calls a person a "moron" over what was obviously a typo. Of course I meant to say 587BC not 537BC. The 537 date marks the year the Judeans returned and started to inhabit the land of Israel after the 70 ( not 50) year captivity in Babylon which started in 607BC. Guess MAN cant handle being proven wrong about there being no evidence to support the date of 607BC. While I am sympathetic to his daughter there is no excuse for such rudeness. Others have noticed his aggressive attitude - eg KL. To lambs who have been mistreated: Paul foretold that there would be oppressive wolves enter the flock and not treat the flock with tenderness. (Acts 20:29) Elders who have oppressed the victims of child abuse certainly fit that description, and not that in Isaiah 32:2 - " a hiding place in the wind" That's why I pray like Jacob did that the superior authorities acting as God's agents for justice in this world will see they pay. Romans 13:1-8

NN Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 3:53 AM
KL, please go on!
Oh Yes KL, please do tell your elders that you are visiting this sight!!! What I meant was that elders are visiting sights like this one, and phone in on radio programs, etc and of course they "visit" and "preach" to x-witnesses (not all of course esp. not those that are not welcome back) as a part of their "shepherding duties" often they do this under some kind of alias, pretending to someone else and not revealing their true purpose. Get it they are the shepherds, you are - if you're not an aka - a very unimportant sheep, they are to be kings and rule over the earth and you are to be their subject. Thats the reason why you can not tell them you are visiting this sight, if of course you are not in fact one of them.

Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 3:44 PM
To KL
Hello, I agree with your comments to M.A.N. M.A.N., while I appreciate your education and knowledge and admire you for all that you are accomplishing, and am thankful and grateful to you for the fact that you intend to use your psychology degree to help all the victims and expose their tormentors, the so-called leaders and sheppards, it seems to me that you dwell on your education too much, that you point it out constantly. It sometimes almost seems like an obsession with you. I can appreciate that obsession, because of what happened to your daughter and others, but even people with only a high school diploma can speak up and bring about change in this so-called religion that has been destroying lives left and right. Getting the media to sit up and take notice doesn't seem to be very easy. It is very frustrating demoralizing. You have much to offer with your education, but there are many others, who, too, have much to offer when it comes to exposing the heinous actions of the WTBTS. We can all work together, regardless of how far we have been educated. I'm glad you intend to write a book! I think it will be a very well written book and full of enlightening and illuminating information. Go for it!!!

Margaret Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 4:33 PM
to AK
Pyramidology is not what Russell believed in. He did not believe that sitting under a pyramid would heal all your sicknesses and give you cosmic energy. Perhaps you should check out online what pyamidology is. He simply misapplied the text about a "monument in Egypt" as did all the Adventists at that time to refer to Bible prophecy in stone. Phrenology? Where did you get that from?

Margaret Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 4:38 PM
MAN's threats
Taking the law into your own hands would see you in jail - that would mean the abuser has won. I do hope your daughter has not given up praying to Jehovah to sustain her. He will raise her up with "wings of eagles" if she relies on him. As a health care worker I have been trained in psychology and counseling myself and I always advise abuse victims to rise above the abuse and get on with their lives. Why let the abuser control you for the rest of your life?

AK Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 10:08 PM
To Margaret
I will not take the time or space to fully reply to your comments. They betray a lack of honesty, and a failure on your part to know of what you speak. From - The Divine Plan of the Ages, [Studies in the Scriptures vol I] 1886 (1908 edition), comes the following quotes: [[THINGS YOU OUGHT TO KNOW AS CHRISTIAN BIBLE STUDENTS - The Great Pyramid in Egypt is a Witness to all these event of the ages and of our day -- testifying in symbols? - The Pyramid's downward passage under "A Draconis" symbolizes the course of Sin? Its First Ascending Passage symbolizes the Jewish age? Its grand Gallery symbolized the Gospel age? Its Upper Step symbolized the approaching period of tribulation and anarchy, "Judgments," upon Christendom? Its King's Chamber the Divine Nature, etc., of the Overcoming Church -- the Christ, Head and Body? Its Ante-Chamber the Correction in Righteousness of the "Great Company" etc.? Its Queen's Chamber those of Israel and the world who attain Restitution?]] This is pyramidology, a belief that pyramids influence our lives and even prophetic interpretation of the Scriptures! This is one of hundreds of quotes that could be sighted. As to phrenology - it is the study of the shapes a sizes of heads to determine the character and spirituality of that individual. Derogatory comments were made about persons of different races in the Societies publications that referred to that practice. I enclose just one brief quote for you to consider that I do not lie here; from Golden Age 1921 Jan 19 p.224 [[ The size of the nose, as also the size of the eyes, is not without significance. The small-nosed man cannot have a judicial mind, whatever his other excellencies may be. And a man whose nose upturns can no more be expected to administer justice than a pug dog can be expected to act as a shepherd.]] These were the real views of this 'God driven organization' in the early heydays - is this what Christ saw as, and revealed as 'truth'? It was and is heresy! May the Lord open your eyes - and if you prefer them shut why are you here - those of us that frequent this site have had ours opened in one way or another. May the Lord bless the victims of these oppressive rapists, and grant retribution to those arrogant enough to protect those kinds of animals, even though they choose ignorance over reality!!!! Jeff

Ak Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 10:52 PM
Re: the two witness rule
The WTBTS is known worldwide for it's insistence on rules. Rules have been printed about everything from what is proper sex in the married bedroom to what one should eat at conventions to the type of firearms one might own. On and on ad nauseum! The list is endless, and the majority of them have no scriptual basis at all. Yet in matters of great urgency such as presented on this site ; i.e.; the safety and protection of children, the org insists on the two witness rule! Back in the 1980's they would have happily disfellowshipped anyone who 'committed' oral intercourse with his/her spouse. In those matters there is never two witnesses except by confession - but at the same time a perverted sexual predator can perform all sorts of rape, sodomy, oral and anal sex with a little defenseless child of 2 or 3 or 9 years old - what SL has proposed and all agree would go a major way in reducing the problem is simple - just report all rumors or reports of child abuse and predation to the authorities with the resources and talent to investigate such crimes. This would let those capable, and without bias in the matter to deal with this issue. If the person cannot be DF'd, then so be it - but at least let the right agency handle the matter. And leave the victim alone - why victimize him/her again by destroying his/her whole world. Why make the victim out to be evil by Df'ing them? Is slander [wt definition, not mine] a more serious crime than rape???? No understanding is shown to the fact that victims need to air it out and get the healing started!!!! What hatefullness.... SL keep up the good work. Jesus said "by their fruits you will recognize them". I see some terrible fruitage. Jesus will judge, not I. To the WTBTS spys who read these postings: Is your ultimate goal of having a clear clergy/laity distinction, and to be like your arch-rival Catholics, worth the price that may be paid in that judgement???????? Jeff

Margaret Sunday, July 18, 2004
@ 11:18 PM
the pyramid
AK: Im well aware of the fact that the pyramid was viewed by all Adventists as the "dive plan of the ages" in stone - the text about the "monument " in Egypt having been applied to it. Isaiah 19:19. Russell held that view too and Im not disputing that. (Like MAN you attack people just because they dont agree with you which shows an arrogant attitude.) But that is NOT pyramidology which has to do with all pyramid shapes being used for healing and energy chanelling. Those who believe in pyramidology claim the cosmic energy channelled through the apex is what preserved the Pharoahs' bodies whereas in fact it was embalming them them with oils extracted from trees and plants which contain preservatives. Russell never believed in pyramidology. Phrenology was based solely on the shape of the skull and was a popular fad in those days. It was never intended to be racist. Not even by those who promoted it.

KL Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 1:00 AM
HEY NN and Margaret
NN: What gives? I was agreeing with you!! There is no need to mock what I said. The Elders have no right to be here and then turn around and tell us that we can't. Why do you have a problem with that statement? I don't need to tell them that I'm on this site, they already know. I am not hiding and will not hide from anyone. You don't know me, so leave your personal judgments to yourself and quit telling me what to do. I am still a witness, even though I was molested by an Elder for four years as a teenager, and I currently have a lawsuit against the perp and the WTBS. I just prefer to do this from the inside rather than the outside, and that is my perrogative (Bobby Brown, anyone?) So watch what you say about me, and leave the judging to Jehovah. Thanks.********************************And as for MARGARET, I was not coming down on M.A.N for his agressiveness, especially when he's telling you to shut the hell up!!!! I second that motion. Don't ever try to use me to further your views. I can't stand hypocrites like you and Jacob, so just leave me out of your delusions, okay?

Cheri Romero Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 1:20 AM
In support of MAN and others who feel the same
Good lord!! I leave for a couple days and come back and all hell has broken loose and why???? Because MARGARET is still here spouting her b******. You know, I read for many months and for many hours before I started responding to her moronic statements. (Yes, I am calling her a moron also) We are (many of us) tired of hearing her support this sick organization. And to talk about how if MAN takes the law into his own hands he will go to jail. Well what do you call molesting and raping a child? HIs daughter? Me? My sisters? My nephews and neices? My children? WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT MARGARET THE MORON? Taking the law into their own hands? I too am so sick of her and again I will say: YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON THIS SITE MARGARET THE MORON!!!! YOU ARE GOING AGAINST THE COMMANDS OF YOUR SUPERIOR ELDERS!!! BE GONE WITH YOU!!! MAN, hang in there ok? Dont let idiots like her sway you or drive you to something that will prevent you from being the help that you can be to this noble cause. You have my support and silentlambs has my support and so does all of the abuse victims. Much love to all of you.

Cheri Romero Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 1:25 AM
Margaret the Moron
I just read the part that you are a psychologist and counsel victims? What a stupid thing for your superiors to do. I never believed in speaking to a counselor who had not experienced what I have experienced. What good does it do to be book learned in this type of field? I dont believe it does any good and I know it does ME no good. I would have asked if you have ever been raped and when you said no, I would have shut the door on our sessions and asked for another more knowledgable counselor and that means one who has the same background as me. I do not believe you can help someone in this area if you dont have first hand knowledge.

cheri romero Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 1:40 AM
Margaret
You are such a b****!! First of all, quit with your spouting of all the dates and biblical doctrine. This site is here for MOLEST AND RAPE VICTIMS AND SUPPORTING THEM!!!News Flash!!!! Your subjects have deterred from that topic. Secondly, HOW DARE YOU ASK MAN IF TALKED TO HIS WIFE THAT WAY AND THEN TELL HIM THAT IT IS EMOTIONAL ABUSE!!!! YOU are the one commiting emotional abuse here. By calling all of us liars and continuing to p**** us off. Shut the hell up would you? Go away and leave us alone! Leave us to our apostate ways!! YOU MAKE ME F****** SICK!!!!

cheri romero Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 1:44 AM
To ak (jeff)
I like you. You are good. Keep up the good work and go get them friend.

NN Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 2:40 AM
Janet Jackson
This evening JJ will be interviewed on Swedish television, and the program leader commented in one of the big morning newspapers that she actually had invited JJ to cheer things up but that JJ had been so serious and sad about her childhood that it actually made the program more serious. To me her brother is an extreme example of the destructive influence the WTBS can have on people exposed to its bad element such av tyrannical fathers, that can contuínue to harrass their families, year after year without anyone objecting in spite of that everyone (esp elders) knows about it. Why is this so? The reason is the following; You have to: trust the brothers, wait on Jehova and continue to believe in an nonexisting love or else there will be no place for you in the WTBS paradise. The question I posed to myself and that I think ought to be inescapable to every person believing in the Bibel is: Do I really want this kind of Paradise, and is this the kind of Paradise that an almighty, loving God would offer anyone?

ilidio Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 8:39 AM
To: margaret
Yes, Margaret by taking the law into his hands the abuser would win (win what he deserves). Praying does not resolve problems. I could pray every day to win the lottery, but believe me until I buy a ticket prayers are worth nothing. Who was the idiot that gave you a job as a health worker? Abusers and criminals have to pay for their errors something that never happens in the org. In there, all the abused persons are supposed to forgive the abusers even to the point of going in field service with them. Do you call that counseling? You ought to be ashamed of yourself to come in here with your stupid ideas. It just goes on to show how stupid you and your cult is. Sorry but your 30 seconds are up

DJB Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 10:31 AM
Have not been for awhile...
My X served me with papers and is now taking me to court. He has accused me of lying and harrassment... etc. Wish me the best. The elders are all coming out to support him. Coming to the court house and on the papers I was served willing to be witnesses in a court of law for him. He has complained that I harass him by calling the police for protection from him. He is requesting that the restraining order be removed that has been on for 8 years. Of the 150 homes in our area for sale why does he have to pick the one almost next to where I live? If he wants us to tell in court why we need the r. order I guess we will... He has been seeking me out. May Jehovah be with us in court and expose what is going on here. Wish the web site every success...DJB

PAYING ATTENTION Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 1:08 PM
GREAT SITE AND I HOPE MORE BRANCH OFF FROM IT!
I HAVE BEEN AROUND JEHOVAHS WITNESSES FOR ABOUT FIVE YEARS NOW. I HAVE A SISTER IN LAW WHO WAS RAPED BY HER STEP- FATHER FROM THE TIME SHE WAS SEVEN UNTIL SHE WAS THIRTEEN. SHE HAD TO RUN AWAY TO GET AWAY FROM HIM. THIS MAN WAS DISFELLOWSHIPPED OVER THREE TIMES AND WAS ALWAYS WELCOMED BACK. SHE GOT DISFELLOWSHIPPED AND LUCKY FOR HER SHE NEVER WENT BACK! I KNOW THIS MAN IS STILL IN THE SO CALLED TRUTH AND IT IS LOCATED IN NEW HANOVER COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA. LET ME TELL YA SOMETHING FOLKS SOME OF THE STORIES I HAVE HEARD HER TELL ME ABOUT HIS ABUSE TOWARD HER WOULD MAKE YOUR FLESH CRAWL. I HOPE ALL OF THE KINGDOM HALLS IN THE WORLD ARE SHUT DOWN! I FEEL FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED AND I HOPE YOU ALL GET THE JUSTICE YOU DESERVE.

NN Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 4:03 PM
KL and others
Dear KL, it is a simple fact that if anyone is open with his/her opposition to the organization, they will be punished as apostates, and we all know what happens to them. My comment to you had nothing what so ever to do with your personality, but to your statement. I feel pity for you that you are giving support to an organization that has accepted the abuse of you, to be a member is to support. But you are not alone, I myself know of persons, that although they know of abuse and that it has not been dealt with properly still stay on. I guess it is the same with you as with them either they are frightened to loose "the paradise" or they do not want to be forced to admit that they made a mistake. But I think it is much better to admit a mistake and accept reality that the WT org is a bad thing that one ought to turn away from if one has the possibility, I have full understanding for people who do everything but leave for family reasons, since the WT org uses family connections as a kind of hostages, pretty much as the late communist regimes.

Margaret Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 4:38 PM
to all
I dont just counsel abuse victims. Psychology and counseling are part of my work as a health care worker - self employed. For the record - I have been the victim of sexual molestation - a single incident when I was 10yo. I cant remember the abuser's last name and I never told my parents. That's why I made a point of advising my two daughters to let me know if they were molested. They never have been and that is why they are happy and well adjusted even though they have never themselves been baptized as Jehovah's witnesses. I posted about Bible chronology because two other users raised the subject and claimed there was no support for WT chronology. I wont be posting here any more because I am sick of the verbal abuse - which BTW is no less hurtful than being beaten up physically. But to those genuine victims of abuse who have been polite, such as KL - I wish you all the best and may you get justice in the courts.

Angela Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 4:45 PM
Michael Jackson
MJ's father is not and has never been a JW. Only his mother.

AK Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 10:00 PM
To Margaret - Symantics
Margaret just wanted to argue semantics! Whether or not Russell accepted the precise form of pyamidology that she indicates is immaterial to the case presented! The point is: at the time that they claimed that Jesus had selected the organization as the 'faithful slave', circa 1919, this organization did not have any of the 'truth' that they claim today! They were issuing gibberish as God ordained prophecy! They still do, and in a hundred years [when all the 'current truth' has been discarded and replaced with new 'current truth'] they will still use the same arguments to support it's view that they have the only truth and God's blessing! They will still be saying that the light is getting brighter. They will still be saying that the Great Tribulation is right at the doorstep. They will still be lying to the flock when it benefits the Ivory Tower dwellers in Gotham City! They will still be encouraging the flock to sell out and pioneer to buy God's favor. And to ignore solid argumentation about fundamental doctrine and chronology! They will be still be Df'ing some for doing things that were never condemned in the Bible! They will still be manipulating those who allow it! They will still be publishing half truth and innuendo! The great- grandchildren of some that read this will have their lives ruined, disfellowshipped for speaking the truth about those whom the organization wants to protect! And will the same 8500 Memorial partakers be getting reported? Seems like that little flock is not dying off - have you noticed that, Margaret? Look at the old Memorial figures! The same number [who must by now be nearly all in their 90's] have been partaking each year for the past 15 years!!! Will the number ever decrease as it should? How odd!!! Answer that one! Sorry Maggie - your bucket is full of holes! Jeff

AK Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 10:04 PM
To Cheri Romero
Thank you for such nice comments! You also, keep fighting the good fight to bring justice in your case and all others! May God bless!

AK Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 10:13 PM
Who is Margaret (Maggie)?
Has anyone noticed that this 'grandmother' has an answer for everything. Even things that the 'rank and file' witnesses would never have a mind to personally investigate? And that 'she' seems to have programmed info on some points and puts too sharp a point on others? Some of her comments sound a bit like the Watchtower don't they? Skip the real issues and paint a half truth that will convince those of lesser mind? Could it be that we are seeing 'theocratic warfare' [i.e.;lying] in action? Who are you really Maggie? Perhaps a member of the Governing Body is commenting here? If so, then congrats to SL - you got their attention!! Jeff

mp Monday, July 19, 2004
@ 11:23 PM
re NN's comments
Your comments regarding why people stay on with the organization even when they know of wrongs that are not handled correctly reminded me of a statement that Barbara Harrison made in her book. I'm sorry to say I cannot remember the name of the book but her statement made a lasting impression on me. She asked how can a religion survive so many time predictions that have proven false. Then she answered her own question. For people who have invested so much in the religion, it would completely destroy the fabric of their lives to admit that it is wrong or that they have made a mistake. So I guess it is the same with anything wrong that goes on. Some find it easier and better to "wait on Jehovah" than to face a crisis of conscience and risk destroying the fabric of their lives. In the meantime, they will let the WT policies destroy families and children as long as they personally can be spared the cruelty of facing the fact that they do not have "the Truth". ----------------------------------------------------------- The book you make reference to is Visions of Glory Silentlambs

Cheri Romero Tuesday, July 20, 2004
@ 11:13 AM
AK
My thoughts exactly about Margaret being someone else really. I think she has answers too quickly and too informed for a "woman" in the organization. She has a "brother's" answers. Good looking out Jeff. MAN, where are you at? Are you hiding in your text books again? Keep your chin up friend!!

Cindy Tuesday, July 20, 2004
@ 12:20 PM
Saddened...
You know friends, when I first found this site a year ago, I was so encouraged. To find other friends of our former religion with so much heartache and similar abuses in all forms from the WBTS was amazing to me. I was not alone anymore. What saddens me is that the last few months this site has been turning into a free for all with hurtful words, verbal abuse and just right attacking one another. Each time I check here I hope to see some encouraging words, but not in along time. Sorry to say it's like being with a bunch of J.W.'s ! There is too much negative energy. I thought this site was to build each other up, NOT tear down. Who cares about IQ's and pyramids and who knows the most scriptures? I just wanted to listen to the silentlambs, not trade for abusive words against one another. It's like being at a Kingdom Hall or out in service. Im glad I'm free of all that. I don't want to return ever again to a kingdom hall, so I doubt I'll be returning here. Thanks Bill Bowen for your hard work. Goodbye---------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Anger is an aspect expressed by abuse survivors it often translates to comments about doctrine and belief of JW's. At sl we remain neutral on these issues but allow those that wish to express themselves. We hope you can see the education factor at work and in the end find closure for those that suffer so much. We bid you peace and God's blessing.

Tuesday, July 20, 2004
@ 2:10 PM
To AK
Yes, I, for one, have started to wonder about Margaret and 'her' posts. There is something about the way they are worded or something, and she seems to 'know' everything. I wonder who she is too.

L.L.B. Tuesday, July 20, 2004
@ 11:52 PM
Why do they come?
It's obvious Ak: to fill this board with their misinformation and religious propoganda. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually have a person at the WTBTS designated specifically to posting here under different names. Are they afraid of this site? You better believe it. It's big business just look at their billion dollar annual revenues. Silent Lambs educatiojnal site just might put a dent in that revenue. It's all about money and control.

NN Wednesday, July 21, 2004
@ 2:37 AM
To Cindy
Well in a way I understand your comments, and a good way of makings things "happier" would be if all the elders working "under cover" would stop posting. We know all about your "theocratical warfare" and for your information the Almighty in is no need what so ever of your petty lies. And in a way I don't understand you, cause for me to be able to read about experiences similar to my own, and experiences that made me dare to believe my own deductions, was the absolute best encouragement possible. The silence and the ostracising in this organization is so horrible that to be albe to hear free voices, even angry voices, is a relief beyond belief. And I'm a person used to making my own decisions, so how much more important to people that are more uncertain? So Cindy try to see beyond the surface aand feel the relief in every single word that the true ex-silent lambs express and I'm sure you will be happy even if the posting has an angry tone.

***the mole*** Wednesday, July 21, 2004
@ 11:01 AM
abuse or tough godly love
*** the mole*** Since I left the organization I have spoken out on many errors in which the elders, my indoctrinated family members, and active witnesses seem unable to answer. The answer I do get is don't question the societys views because you are questioning God's line of knowledge. The organization ceased to be a means of inculcating the knowledge of God and has become an end under whose teachings everyone is subjected. Dogmatism and despotic imposition on the minds of its adherents of what it describes as the great body of Truths is its official creed. Abuse of all forms stems from such blind and erroneous teachings that all those who do not follow along are lured to a painful break away from friends and family. I believe since my baptism that a fundamental evil lies in the concept of divinely ordained authority vested in the organization has victimized, corrupted, and entrapped many people to do things that normally they wouldnt have done. Abuse comes in many forms but when an individual sees the light and finds the Societys truth to be a lie much pain is inflicted from indoctrinated family and friends to force submission from the one wanting to leave. Then we find as I did that we had no freedom, no questions, no RIGHTS. A lonely father or mother who decides to leave the organization the children are forced to turn against them then death of the mother or father and all that is said of them was Jehovah will forgive them. Abuse of casting aside family and going against Jesus words makes Christ death meaningless and his words mean nothing....the mole

JJ Wednesday, July 21, 2004
@ 1:46 PM
WHY ABUSE OTHERS W/DIFFERENT OPINIONS
First of all, I think it's great that abuse survivors can express themselves at this site. But why is it that people here are abusing other people who express themselves with a different view? If abuse is wrong then why should those who express themselves be allowed to abuse others? How can we ever get the message out that abuse is wrong if we are culprits of abuse ourselves?

Ak Wednesday, July 21, 2004
@ 2:52 PM
To NN
Well said, NN. The abuse I suffered was not sexual - but in this organization there is no allowance for honest concern and love, or dealing with pent up frustration. So outlets like these are diamonds in the rough. It is a part of taking back control from those who have villainized us for daring to have legitimate complaints or pain! Most people will grow when given the opportunity to 'talk it out' on issues that have troubled them. True, I have seen some comments that were more vicious than needed, but as was said, that is how we sometimes need to get the pain out of our system and feel like we took back control. I know it has been somewhat therapeutic for me to be able to express an adult point of opinion here, after 30 years of being told that I needed to have someone who never knew me make up my mind for me from a Ivory Tower in New York. Glad we have SL and xjw's in other forums for such mental needs. Jeff

Jacob Wednesday, July 21, 2004
@ 4:27 PM
do you claim to have ESP?
Why do you assume that Margaret is an elder or a member of the governing body? Do you believe that all JWs are liars? Why would an elder pretend to be a woman? Why attack someone who wished you well and for your success in court? Even others such as Cindy have noticed the nastiness here.

KL Wednesday, July 21, 2004
@ 6:17 PM
Nastiness
The nastiness around here is because a bunch of people who have not been molested or have had no previous dealings with the crime are coming on here and talking s***. If they would just stay out of it unless they have something encouraging to say THAT RELATES SPECIFICALLY TO THE TOPIC, then this site would be much better for all of us who really need it to be.

L.L.B. Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 12:27 AM
Get a Load of This...
Jacob is coming here to Silent Lambs site and defending the same religious group which victimized these people and he is trying to now claim to be the victim. Nice try Jacob but we all recognize that as another JW tactic. Let's get something staight Jacob: We did not go to your computer and type this url - you did. The people here have been subjected to abuse and you put up dishonest posts in an attempt to support those who have abused them. You may be the kind of individual who get's pleasure from rubbing salt in some else's wounds but EMPATHY for the victims here would be much more appreciated.

Jerry Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 12:29 AM
Pot Calling the kettle Black Jacob?
How can you assume that Margaret is not an alias? Somehow your ESP is better?

L.L.B. Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 12:40 AM
BTW Jacob
I never "attacked" you for wishing me success in court and for you to say so is dishonest. What I did do was question your honesty in your claim that the courts are "God's agents" when you know very well that the JWs are taught that the secular system i.e. Government and courts are run by Satan. If you are going to come here and be dishonest then you ought to be prepared to be challenged on that. If you want to call that being "attacked" then there is a simple answer: Tell the truth. In fact I was very was very kind to you in my original response and told you that I was going to pray for you. Believe I can go on the verbal attack and you haven't seen that so let's not make up stories. This guestbook is a place to empathize with the victims of WTBTS policy and sexual abuse not for you to try and turn the tables and feel sorry for you and the WTBTS.

NN Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 2:57 AM
The right to criticise
Very often those who criticise is criticized, especially people who criticise hierarcic structures, why is that so? It is because one of the reason to build an hiearchical structure is to annihilate opposition, ie critic. The WT organization allows no critic what so ever, in fact as a witness it is not allowed for you to have critical thougts about anything, even the most trivial thing that the "society" or "elders" might take a fancy to express an opinion about. I clearly remember a convention talk were a quite hysterical elder informed us that even to think one (1) single critical thought against an elder, not even to mention anybody higher up, was almost as bad as sinning against the holy spirit. Consequently, in the WT org no discussion about anything is possible since it would be denounced, and people are expelled for being "oppositional" therefore it is not so very surprising that we who have stopped being silenced lambs have an urge to speak out, and that elders posing under a diversity of aka and other "loyal" witnesses wants to discredit what we say. And Yes elders are known, I have litteraly heard it myself, to pose under false pretense to be able to "defend the truth". This organization is rotten and so is it's fruitage.

AK Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 8:27 AM
Look around
To those that doubt the validity of the claims of abuse - sexual and otherwise - go look around at other decent xjw sites. Pay particular attention to the stories by former elders, circuit overseers, district overseers, bethelites. These persons have been on the 'inside', and many of them can testify to the depth of the problem within the organization. For many of them it was a key to their leaving, as it was for me. The problem is a simple one, the same one faced by the Jews in Jesus day; this religion has become a legalistic effort to legislate righteousness. The whole problem with that is that LOVE gets left out of the picture! Laws, rules, and directives do not effect righteous conduct! Love does that, and it always missing from those who prefer legalism, as does the WTBTS of NY!! Jeff

DH Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 9:34 AM
Jesus said,"happy are the pure in heart'.This means that i am brutally honest. I'm DH Former member of the abusive,Kingdom hall of Jehovah's witnesses Rockland Massachusetts USA. Exited out 1-5-92 was in for 33 years.I was 3rd generation,so they still are holding most of my family hostage.The Watchtower swindled most of my family assets,left me destitute at first but i have recovered much. The worst thing that high demand destructive Bible based cults do to their victims is they 'soul rape' you so you become angry at God. It's been called."surrogate displacement" rage.You become 'mad at the world' and it takes a long time to recover. God is good and gracious and i am stronger for it.I have a counter-cult home page please visit and browse.I am determined to provide education and support to warn others of these,'wolves in sheep's clothing'. ------------------------------------------------------------ This post has been edited for anonymity. Silentlambs

NN Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 11:30 AM
soul rape
Such a very good and exact expression, soul rape. Yes I experienced that anger too, but about one year before I left. And I left cause I realized that I ought not be angry towards God but evil humans, and since the WT org made me go ballistic inside with their outpour of bad words I decided that one thing to do was to leave. And interestingly some witnesses explained my wanting to leave the organization with the reason that I had lost my belief in God. So I think that this is actually what they wish to do, to turn people away from God and turn the towards their mock image of God, and that is really a soul rape.

KL Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 11:45 AM
TO DH
Bill - Please post this one instead of the first submission. I accidentally hit the "Enter" key on that one!!! Also, didn't you kick this guy off here already about two months ago?**********************DH, you said that the worst they can do is "Soul Rape"? Get off this web site, you stupid piece of crap! The elder who molested me not only took my SOUL, but also my Pride, dignity, childhood, happiness...Get the point? A Soul Rape takes your Soul. An ACTUAL RAPE TAKES YOUR SOUL AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. There is nothing worse than ACTUAL RAPE OF A CHILD, with death even being a better alternative, since then the poor victim does not have to live with it for the rest of his/her life. You have no idea what you are talking about, so just go away again and quit using this website to pimp your own. ---------------------------------------------------------- This post has been edited for anonymity

NN Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 5:26 PM
Lots of rapes
Well, KL there was no talk of soul rape as the only, or worst, form of rape. I guess in this and in similar organizations one could list a lot of different form of rapes. But I want you to realize that a soul rape, as any form of rape, might lead to suicide, and has done that! If a person is raped, no matter in what manner, his or her integrity - the essence of his/her being - is brutally taken away, and that my friend is equivalent of murder, the only difference is that the outside is still alive. I will tell you one more thing, in connection of my leaving the WT org I stayed away from meetings for about a month cause it interested me to see what would happen. What happened was that just before the memorial of JC death ( forgot the exact term right now) one of the elders phoned me and talked as if he thought that I was heavily depressed (there had been a rumor that I was depressed, spread by a mentally unstable person I guess to please the elder she is besotted in), this was really no surprise cause the elders really had been working on getting me as isolated as possible, and almost no one dared to have anything to do with me. Well that really didn't matter cause for several years I had given up the social part of the cong and got myself a real life so my interest in the cong was at that time purely religious. But I think this, if it had worked as it does with several poor lonely unhappy witnesses (esp. sisters) also had been a kind of rape, to isolate a person through slander behind the back is to bereave a person of his or her believe in his or her self as a social being and my guess is that this has caused not a few suicides, just as with children, young persons, women and men that have been raped in the physical sense. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------According to Websters definition of rape, [its an act of sexual intercourse by force or deception]. In a broader sense its a violation of a persons will; that is why according to some therapists the hurt lasts long after the physical pain from the rape. Generalizations being used out of context or so broad to encompass any type of violation only leads to semantic battles. Silentlambs

Jacob Thursday, July 22, 2004
@ 9:34 PM
alias
Most of us dont use our real names here. But I have no reason to believe that Margaret is not a woman and that her own personal experience with sexual abuse is for real any more than I doubt your's. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- Edited due to generalizations out of context ....Silentlambs

NN Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 2:18 AM
Why not?
As far as I know there is no ban of using words in a metaphorical sense, as we did with the the word rape. And I think that even though this site is about sexual abuse of children and young persons, there is no reason not to talk about these things too since "soul rape" and similar metaphorical "rapes" are allways connected with the sexual abuse, or to put it simple were there is sexual abuse there is every other kind of abuse, since it is part of the "abuse structure" wich aims is to destroy the involved persons, boths abused and abusers, personalities. And that is what is really bad with the WT organization, that it has developed this kind of structure, and that is also, I think, the expalanation to why even the pope might realize the need to confess the existance of abuse, but never ever the governing body.

KL Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 10:08 AM
Rape
I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to come up with rape generalizations on this website. You know who comes up with that crap? The people who want attention, who want to sound more important to others than they really are, kinda like calling yourself a Sanitation Engineer instead of a garbage man. This is a site about ACTUAL SEXUAL ABUSE AND RAPE OF CHILDREN in relation to the WTBS, not any of that other "let's make more out of it than we need to" stuff. Not a "let's make stuff up to downgrade the WTBS even more than the REAL stuff already does" website. If that's what you are into, there are tons of other ACTUAL apostate websites where your selfish delusions are more than welcome. See if you can call a Rape crisis center and get away with telling them "Someone soul raped me." They would hang up on you in a heartbeat. Any and all of this b**** "Soul Rape" talk just diminishes the actual traumas inflicted upon us REAL rape victims. So if you please, stop with the wanting to sound like you know more than you do, like you have suffered the same as we have, (in fact, I believe the quote was "There is NOTHING worse than Soul Rape" - HOW DARE YOU!!!!) and get with the subject!

KL Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 10:17 AM
One more thing...
Another stupid argument trying to prove that Soul Rape is the same is because people have killed themselves from it. I guess that means that divorce is also the same then, because I personally know of someone who killed himself because his wife left him. And how about the kid who kills himself because his girlfriend in 10th grade was kissing the QB. PEOPLE KILL THEMSELVES ALL THE TIME IN THIS WORLD, for a ton of reasons, some so trivial that it is crazy!!!!! It does NOT mean that they have suffered nearly 1/10 of what we have. And we are still here, fighting everyday to keep alive. And succeeding. Perhaps instead of making the ultimate ATTENTION sacrifice (suicide), those ones who already have should have been more like us REAL victims, realizing that the true healing comes from helping others with their fears, not dramatizing our own.

Cheri Romero Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 12:06 PM
To KL
I hear ya girlfriend. And what he said was "the worst thing that they do to a victim is soul rape you". What a moron!! And I am really sick of seeing Jacob on here trying to ineffectively defend Margaret. He sounds like a whinning child and his arguments are totally lame to say the least. I personally believe that Margaret, Jacob and the rest who are here for the same reasons, are getting too much time and attention from us. I feel that if we ignore them and their idiot posts, it will take away their power and they will go away and leave us alone. You know what they say? Dont let someone live rent free in your brain. The only person that it hurts is you. Such a true statement. Greetings all!! What say we try to pass over the morons who are trying to distract us from our primary purpose?

Cheri Romero Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 12:08 PM
NN
By the way, There was talk of "the worst thing they can do is soul rape you" so I dont know why you are telling KL that there wasnt talk of that. In fact, that is exactly what DH said. Better check your information before you respond to people okay?

MA Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 1:09 PM
Credibility
I think that your mission to help abuse victims would earn more creditibilty if you would eliminate the commercial aspect of this website i.e. credit card icons and gift shop. The mere issue of the method in which WTBS mishandles the sexual abuse problem among its flock will move people to contribute. MA

KL Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 2:20 PM
Thanks Cheri...
...for gettin' my back on this one! And as for the girlfriend part, well, I am honored (lol), but I'm afraid you've got the wrong gender. I'll still be your friend though :).

ilidio Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 5:57 PM
ma
Knock it off MA, this website needs support. You must realize that Silentlabms does not send people from door to door selling magazines in order to make the revenues that the WTBTS. But out, either you are with us or against us.

ilidio Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 6:00 PM
jacob
Jacob, I use my real name as I dont have anything to hide. As for Margaret I am 99.9% that she is in fact my ex old friend circuit overseer TA. Her and you could actually be the same person. The time that you and Margaret spend in here does it count as field service?????? If it counts yor are counting lots of hours in field service and not making any disciples he he he

R-Freedom Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 9:33 PM
Am I in the wrong place?
I haven't visited the site in a while, however there is a very different tone here than the one I remember . First, Id like to say that I totally agree that the word rape should be kept to it's traditional definition, especially on a site like this...this isn't the place to use rape metaphors. I accept this site as FIRST and foremost being a place to discuss children who were raped but I also see it as a place for all of us who have been hurt (in various ways) by the organization to share and know that there are others out there who are struggling with JW issues. When I first visited I was shocked at how many people have been sexually abused in the organization...I was not sexually abused while growing up in the organization though I was socially stunted and mentally abused. After reading others stories I told my JW family about the site and warned them of the crimes being committed in kingdom halls through out the nation. My family was furious with me for having any involvement with this site. After posting my story I felt welcomed and I no longer felt alone with my negative JW memories. In my opinion sexual abuse is the worst crime one can commit and the worst crime one can endure. Though the mental and social issues I face are not as severe as others sexual abuse issues my issues are still real...people like me also need a place to vent, share and be heard. I may not have been raped but I try to understand your pain and I've done what I can to educate and warn others in the JW organization who are living in the dark. So if other members feel the need to "disfellowship" we mental JW victims from the site could I please request that silent lambs or other members refer us to another reputable site that is more appropriate for us. Or perhaps silent lambs could add another section to the site for those suffering in other ways due to the JW religion. Oh and just a thought, those who donate to silent lambs may not be rape/molestation victims&isnt it wrong to ban them from signing the guest book? ---No disrespect intended---

Cheri Romero Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 11:25 PM
Sorry, So Sorry KL
I am sooooo embarrassed!! About the gender issue that is. Hey arent you from Sacramento? If so, so am I!! If not, my bad. Ma, Bill Bowen donated all of his money and time to establish this organization for the help of victims and survivors and got essentially no help with it for quite a long time. Hopefully he has more help than he did in the beginning because he can only be considered akin to Superman with the work that he did on his own. So....we need to leave the icons and requests for support. He cannot support it all alone now can he? That was an FYI. Iildio, I hope I spelled it right. You are the bomb also!! I love seeing what you write on this site. By the way. I think you are absolutely right about Jacob and Margaret. And notice that she is gone for now??? Hip Hip Horray!!!!!!

pl Friday, July 23, 2004
@ 11:58 PM
keep in there
So much badness comes from anger, sure it does some good sometimes although deep hardened anger really can make us so sick, I know so well as I have recently had a cancer scare and it is true that of course the pain and hurt will probably never go away and the need to be recognized as someone who has really suffered will never diminish it is so important to remember that anger can destroy the most meaningful intentions and make things so much worse for the ones we care about, we may even loose them. It is our journey when we have been abused and it is about helping ourselves and surviving . To M.A.N. I know that youre really beyond anything imaginable devastated over your daughter having been abused but please let the power behind your anger turn into even more pro activity positively and support, you have the right to be angry but don't let the anger take over, just be there for your wife & child - don't worry about the likes of Margaret (mind you if she says she prays for her daughters one more time Im not sure what Ill do either, just kidding) it is terrible when people say they'll pray for us though it is so condescending well anyway hang in there everyone keep positive. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ Every emotion is a form of communication from the body and anger is one way of knowing we have been violated. Violations can happen in many forms such as; our beliefs, values, will, self-determination and our body. The useful function of anger is to give us an adrenalin rush to fight or flee. The majority of Watchtower sexual abuse victims have had no voice and thus no outlet for their anger. Once anger is cleared, or released the healing process can start. For many victims it is a journey they must follow to come to a state of forgiveness, which starts with themselves. Silentlambs

KL Saturday, July 24, 2004
@ 8:43 AM
No one is saying to ban anyone from off of here unless they are totally out of line. All we are asking is that those of you who come on here to post non relevant prose to keep it to a minimum. There are a ton of true apostate websites where you can go and spout off about getting DF'd for no reason (God I love that one!!), or "this brother or sister did this or that to me" (non sexual, of course), or just plain attacking the basic doctrines and policies. There has been an up rise in this type of posting lately, hence the change in tone. Those of us who are true molestation victims need for all this other stuff to cease, for it only draws away from the true objective of this site. There are also some of us, myself included, who need this site to remain an UNFAIRLY labeled "apostate" website, and this will not happen if it continues to accept any and all apostate ideas. I mean, c'mon, attacking and arguing about when Jerusalem fell, and if 1914 was really the date, and is DF'ing right or not, the WTBS dealings with the UN, quoting phrases out of old, old Watchtower and Awakes instead of using current modified understandings - that stuff doesn't matter. But for a while it was all that was talked about on here. We are only appealing to THOSE people to have respect for not only us TRUE victims, but also Bill and his mission. PS) IF you honestly need Silentlambs to point out the real apostate websites available, then you need to ask your parents if you can stay home from school too. USE GOOGLE, man!***And now, off to the convention I go. You all have a nice weekend.

Ak Saturday, July 24, 2004
@ 4:54 PM
To KL
You need to check the Wt definition of 'apostate'. Most of those who post here are disfellowshipped or disassociated, and by Wt doctrine you are associating with apostates! Let's not try to do the old witness thing, and try to goad others from expressing themselves with a guilt trip. The entire problem that leads to sexual and other abuse within the WTBTS starts and ends with doctrinal matters. Many that visit this site are confused as to where they stand and need assurance that it is ok to leave this organization either literally or at least mentally and emotionally! Broad discussions that openly reveal what the organization really is are part of the process of getting control of our emotions. Thinking our way out, and getting support for doing so is therapeutic. Not all can deal with the issue of sexual abuse openly, and many fear that they are sinning against God to do so here. So these discussions lend them a help in getting involved and using the mind and not just emotions to get a handle on where to go after the healing starts! Also, victims can see that they are not alone (they have been alone too long), and that other thinking persons are getting out for many different reasons. Furthermore, I have not seen that Bill is limiting the use of space for all that wish to comment. SO let's all start healing together. Let's not become like the 'society' and start making rules!!! Jeff

the mole Saturday, July 24, 2004
@ 5:14 PM
stop!
***the mole*** we need to stop with the soul rape junk and babble of dates or times....abuse of all forms is welcomed here to help ease the pain we suffered...

NN Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 4:36 AM
Back to basics, please
Abuse is not an act in isolation. Abuse is acted out in an environment that makes it possible, the abusers do it because they can. In part I guess its correct to say that this world as a whole is quite an abuse friendly place. But there are degrees in hell, and the WT organization is an organization that uses abuse, that can have different forms and of which the most extreme form is rape, whether physical or mental, as a part of keeping control over it's members. To be able to analyze what kind of organization the WT is to me is an important and effective method in the process of exposing this organization and to restore the abused persons rights and self-esteem.

MsMew Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 6:13 AM
Abuse Stories
I'm a former JW (for about 20+ years). I grew up in the JW religion. I find it very disturbing the stories I just read. I remember a brother giving a Sunday talk when I was in my teens. He mentioned a wife who was so busy that she didn't make her husband dinner for three straight nights. While I cannot remember the exact words he used, he inferred that the husband beat his wife in order to make her fix him dinner. I never quite felt right about marriage after that talk. Reading these stories has helped me see that I wasn't off the mark regarding the thoughts I had about that talk. Anyway, I wanted to share this particular experience. I pray that all who were abused get the help & healing they need. Love ya, MsMew

kiki Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 12:12 PM
to all
I was an abused victim for more than 13 years by my father not in the org and over 22years by my mother who has been in the org for over 24 years. I am no longer a witness for two years because I so deem it to be that way for any form of abuse should never be allowed to go on in whatever religion. So all you JW's out there that think you are so smart to try and attack us for having a mind of our own instead of being mindless idiots. Shame on you and being betrayers of your own religion for you know you are not allowed to be on this site. As for AK Stop dwelling on petty things such as the items silent lambs has to sell. All things cost money! We are never charged to speak our mind here on this site we are not even forced to purchase anything. Now if someone wishes to by a lamb, a shirt or contribute money that is their right and shame on you for coming on here just to try and say nonsense. As for anyone else who is going to waste their time if not for good use please continue your day and leave the computer alone. we are on this site for support not just for us but all who needs it. Signing of-kiki P.s. I just want to also remark lets get of the bible quotes who cares. If you so worried about dates stay home or go to the library. Or visit the kingdom hall(yeah right) trust me either way you be so bored you will put your mind to better use. We do not care about the beginning or end of the worlds were here to help ones and support thank you.

Deborah W Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 12:49 PM
holy spirit or ?
All gatherings no matter how large or small always start by praying for Holy Spirit to be present; this applies to groups, meetings, assemblies and the soul destroying judicial committees. We are then lead to believe that whatever happens during and after these events that GODS approval is aggreeable.is this really the TRUTH? Would god be agreeable if sexual abuse occurs during gatherings where he is allegedly present, if yes then is it not so that he would turn a blind eye to these despicable events of abuse? What of the subject of reinstating a so called repentant child abuser, how could this happen if it is Clear that the abuser still abuses at the time of reinstatement, does this mean that the Holy Spirit guided the Elders wrong? I strongly feel that this is a major problem within the jw organization. My personal story is of sexual abuse for many years as a child in a congregation in the uk called HASLINGDEN where I was brought up. My abuser was a ministerial servant thru out my 10 years of HELL,he is as i write this serving 3 years in prison.My abuse accrued in the 1970s he was sentenced jan 04 so for over 30 years this pervert who was clearly abusing at the time of being appointed a servant, at the time of his disffellowshipping and reinstatement all events in which holy spirit guided these deccissions. SAA a servant of Jehovah ? Haslingden elders servants of Jehovah? SHAME ON YOU ALL. If the Holy Spirit makes these decisions then I am PROUD to be no longer a JEHOVAHS WITNESS ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------This post has been edited for anonymity Silentlambs

KL Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 4:33 PM
Convention Insights
Convention yesterday pretty much sealed it for me. Telling us that if we moved into a congregation where the sisters wore little or no makeup, then my wife would need to change her lifelong makeup rituals (lol) in order not to stumble anyone. NO WAY!!! How petty are they going to get? Or if we invited someone over for dinner who didn't drink alcohol, then we would need to hide any and all signs of alcohol being present in our house so as not to offend and stumble the guest. WHAT? My wife and I would both be stumbled if we had to change our whole house around for a guest! Isn't this stuff a two-way street? Why aren't they (WTBS) telling them that if someone moves in to their congregation who wears more makeup than they do that it is OK for someone to be different and that they need to get the sticks out of their asses. And that if you are a recovering alchy and get invited over for dinner and when you get there you see a nice wine rack in the dining room, don't be offended that they didn't take it apart and move it into the study where you couldn't see it. THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE. Where in the bible does it say these things? I thought that we were supposed to obey Jehovah's law, not a bunch of overly tight men trying to control EVERYTHING. That's it. I'm out!

Ak Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 6:00 PM
To kiki
I never stated a word about SL's gift shop or selling anything! Please direct your attacks at the correct party. Jeff

QB Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 11:01 PM
GiftShop
Bill set up the gift shop quite some time after silentlambs had begun, after the March I think, and after much whining/wheedling/begging/pleading/threats from survivors and supporters. There are many circumstances where one is not always free to speak, such as at work or in a public library. During those times, we can wear a tee-shirt, use a coffee mug, and such things. One cannot expect Bill to use money donated for the Lambs to be used for shipping stuff around the world, and so the opportunity to contribute- -and receive something--can be afforded through the gift shop. I can tell you the markup is small to nonexistent for silentlambs items compared to other shops. I wish there were more items such as giftwrap, silentlamb ribbon rolls and stationary. Many of us supporters/advocates buy this stuff to give to each other..har har har!!! It's a great idea, I hope more things get added. How's about a silentlamb candle...

pl Sunday, July 25, 2004
@ 11:26 PM
thanks
Thanks for your post comments SL, I absolutely agree anger is a needed response to how we have been violated, I was concerned about the unhealthy anger (and I agree that anger can come out in all sorts of crazy ways and to begin with it may be misdirected, harmful and unhealthy, especially for a witness who was told that anger - all anger is bad, because we may not only be angry but guilty as well for feeling angry. A while ago Cindy wrote saying she couldn't cope with the site anymore because of the negative energy and the way some were attacking each other, I tend to agree with her, I need a site like this to feel like Im not alone, to feel empowered, and to express myself so the anger isn't bottled in and destroying me internally. I need to have a voice and this is a brilliant way thanks to silent lambs I find though when some write so attackingly it can make it feel unsafe, it can bring back the feelings of child hood when in the organization it was hurtful (at least to me blaming me for the abuse and attacking me - a child), Im happy with righteous anger this anger is at things Im sure god (if we believe in him) would be angry at too Im not too comfortable with the other nasty anger, I think that when I clearly understood anger that is when I started to feel better about myself and able to have a voice, I was afraid of anger, I saw my witness father and other brothers and sisters bash their kids, break furniture, you know spare the rod spoil the child, keep your child awake at the meetings any way possible, make them go witnessing, tell us Armageddon is coming to get us if we don't obey (if THEY didn't get us first) make us stand up for our beliefs at school and if we needed medical attention, listen to graphic stories of persecution, listen to the warnings not to have children in THE LAST DAYS (hello didn't they realize there was already children and pregnant women listening to this), READ THE PARADISE book with all those terrifying pictures study the Babylon the great book so when they say we are dying at Armageddon we can imagine the crows picking out our eyes hmm great childhood in fact no childhood

the mole Monday, July 26, 2004
@ 12:00 AM
abuse to my father
***the mole*** my dad just found out he is not wanted in our family get-togethers. he recently broke away and decided the org was not for him. he is 64 and just had a 5 way bi-pass surgery. he knows death will someday come for him and he wants his family to be with him. But, our religion is clear since he wants nothing to do with the organization they made it clear they want nothing to do with him. my family speaks as if they know god's thoughts and the three elders in our family made it clear with their phone calls for no one to associate with him. the pain my dad suffers for seeing the real truth has hurt him. they have tried to blind him but he has stood his ground. I told my dad that I too have seen the real truth. His mind is open now and with clear eyes he sees the harmful qualities of the JW's. but the pain and lack of family has taken its toll. I told him lets start our own family traditions and that he has two beautiful grandchildren and me to guide him to FREEDOM...the hammer has fallen and he was given a choice, to conform or be cast out.. I told him I no longer will say Im a JW or teach my children the lies they have taught us and that great grandma may have started out leaving the Catholic church with good intentions but the organization has mutated to a evil system of wickedness...if Jesus was to see what they preach and the way they put a heavy yoke upon the members he too would have tipped over their money changers...***the mole***

Jacob Monday, July 26, 2004
@ 1:53 AM
stumbling others
This post has been deleted due to preaching and only mentioning irrelevant content in your post. This site is for Johavahs Witnesses who have been victimized as sexual abuse victims. You are welcome to stick to relevant topics and repost. Silentlambs

ilidio Monday, July 26, 2004
@ 7:46 AM
ak
AK, where did you get the idea that kiki was attacking you? I read her comment and nowhere I saw your name mentioned. ------------------------------------------------- ---------------- Please check your facts before responding to any post, this saves bandwidth for relevant and useful information. Silentlambs

KL Monday, July 26, 2004
@ 4:53 PM
WTBS still at it!
New convention release - Brochure entitled "Keep On The Watch!" Subtitled "For What?" Why Is It Especially Urgent Now?" Second page, under the heading "Where is this world Heading?" the second point listed is "The Religious Scene: Churches back factions in war. Clergy charged in genocide. PRIESTS SEXUALLY EXPLOIT YOUNG PEOPLE; CHURCH COVER-UP. Decline in attendance; church buildings sold." What a crock! Still drawing attention away from itself by pointing out same fault within others. Paragraph should read "...PRIESTS AND ELDERS SEXUALLY EXPLOIT YOUNG PEOPLE; CHURCH AND WTBS COVER-UP...." Sure would be beautiful to finally see that one, wouldn't it?

Angela Tuesday, July 27, 2004
@ 3:26 AM
to KL
With obscene talk like that ( sticking up their@%*#!!) you dont belong with Jehovah's witnesses

KL Tuesday, July 27, 2004
@ 12:26 PM
Angela
But I choose to remain among them, stalking the stalkers from the inside. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------This post has been edited due to emotional over reaction

MA Tuesday, July 27, 2004
@ 4:46 PM
to MA
I have posted here a couple of times and have my PE on this site. I would just like to say that this is not me. Cool initials though :-). Things cost money including running this site. SL is straight up about that fact unlike the WTBTS who make big claims about not passing a plate etc. I remember going to the branch office in New Zealand and the receptionist proudly telling us that the walls had genuine pig skin wallpaper covering them (who paid for that?). The net is full of WTBS money extravagance if one was to investigate. We are not under some divine obligation to help SL financially but if we do then that may be a good cause. Whether we pay or not SL is supplying an excellent service to those of us that need it including you MA in that you where able to post here.

AK Thursday, July 29, 2004
@ 6:47 AM
SL newsletter
All who visit here need to read Bill's newsletter dated 7- 27-2004. Real help is needed to keep this site open and available for those needing it. I intend to think carefully about how much I can give to help here,and then follow thru. I hope all of us will pitch in. As the scripture says "many hands make the load light". Let's prayerfully consider if we can aid SL to keep up the good fight against sexual predators in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses! Or perhaps we could fall back into being just silent lambs again!! Jeff

eddie p Saturday, July 31, 2004
@ 9:49 AM
stepdaughter accused me of molestation
My stepdaughter wanted to live with her dad, so she tried 3 plots to move to his trailer, alcohol abuse, violence and then drugs. None of these worked, so then she made up this elaborate story of being molested over a 2 year period, being as graphical as you can imagine. We went to court, it took a week, the judge found that her dad and her made up this story and ordered the dad to pay all court cost and told the dad I should sue him. My stepdaughter wanted to come home 2 hours after the verdict, I am so ANGRY, I don;t know what to do! My wife says we should forgive her and let her come home. I feel there should be some time to heal, and some group therapy to discuss the pain I am having mentally. I have missed a month of work and I am very depressed over this. How can this 14 yaer old girl do this to our family and then decide when the court beat her plan, just to come home like nothing happened? Where do I turn, before this tears my marriage apart??

KL Saturday, July 31, 2004
@ 9:37 PM
To Eddie P
I am sure you love your wife, but dude, you've got to run, run like the wind. Your wife is obviously not concerned about your mental health through all this, and I would be scared to death of her believing her daughter in some sense. She is always going to be more loyal to her own child than to you, as it should be, so you need to decide if you want to live like that or not. Your wife will resent you (possibly silently even) if you don't allow her daughter to move back home, so either way you are going to lose her. You should leave and leave now, before this can happen again. And it will if you stay - as long as your stepdaughter knows that her mother will accept her NO MATTER WHAT, you're setting yourself up for another episode. I am sorry you are going through this, and I am sure it will take a ton of humility, but no matter what you decide you or your wife HAS to talk to your stepdaughter about this. She has set herself up to not be believed if someone ever really does sexually abuse her, and that would be terrible. There is nothing worse than not being believed when it is true. And she just took a huge leap towards being the "girl who cried wolf." I wish you much success in your troubled times ahead.

Sunday, August 1, 2004
@ 1:17 AM
Eddie and KL
Well Eddie you certainly have a sympathetic reader here. How can this teanager do this? Probably because she is lacking in good judgement at 14 years of age and she was coherced. I have often heard it said that one does not have to forget in order to forgive. I wish you all the best with your family counselling. KL please spare us the advise this guy needs a professional helping his family and clearly you are not.....just my opinion.

Sunday, August 1, 2004
@ 4:59 PM
To Eddie
If you truly love your wife and want to stay married, I think, myself, that you and she and your stepdaughter should all see a counselor together. I think it is important that a professional helps you to confront your stepdaugher and let her know how her behavior has effected you. Also, she is fourteen, which is an easily impressionable age, so don't forget that her father has had a real influence on her and her behavior. She is very young, and it is natural that her mother not want to lose her. And it is natural that she doesn't want to lose you. She is caught between a rock and a hard place, too. Both of you are. I hope that the three of you get family counseling together and that you all get healing.

Sunday, August 1, 2004
@ 11:07 PM
On tact
Some people are having a hard time with this site because of what they perceive as negativity in some of the posts. It isn't necessary to make snide, cutting remarks to others in order to express an opinion and get a point across. People can start statements with "I feel....." or "I think.....", rather than "You this.....You that....." put down comments. Tact is a way of standing up for oneself without knocking someone else down.

mp Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 12:33 AM
to eddie p
I can certainly understand your anger. However, it sounds to me like your stepdaughter is crying out for help and the only way she knows how to do it is to cause trouble. You, your wife and your stepdaughter all need professional counseling. You certainly have a challenging situation, but a rule I have always found that helps in any situation is, when you don't know what to do, do the kind thing. If you can stick with your wife and show your stepdaughter how mature people are supposed to act and treat each other, you may win her respect and she may be truly sorry for unjustly accusing you. At 14 a person does not always think things through and realize the outcome of such unwise actions, especially when being encouraged by her own father, who obviously has no true character. I would try to hang in there. I hope the best for all of you.

KL Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 12:49 AM
To the unknown smart ass
In my opinion - you aren't one either. But you think you have a right to do what you told me not to? You must have been an Elder before.

KL Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 12:59 AM
One more thing...
If this gentleman wanted professional advise, he wouldn't be on here asking us readers for it. My response was only a concerned suggestion; I never indicated that I was a professional. Hopefully he is not as stupid as you, but I will say it anyway: I was only offering my support and a simple suggestion. In no way was I indicating that I am a professional, or that if my suggestion is followed that certain success is right around the corner. Why are there so many people on this website waiting around so they can cast negative spins on everything that is posted? Don't you people have a clue about the need for POSITIVE reinforcement in this arena? If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't. Lastly, allow me to apologize to Eddie for the ignorance of this person in thinking that you couldn't make the distinction on your own that I am only a concerned reader and not a professional. Now on with the program.....

CG Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 10:55 AM
To Eddie
My heart hurts for you and the pain you are going through. You expressed a desire to seek counseling and I would encourage you to follow through with that. In my past I went through a terrible experience when I discovered that my husband was spying on my teenage daughters while they were taking showers. I was devastated. I sought professional counseling and they really helped me to understand the dynamics of the situation and what I needed to do to protect my girls. These days my husband knows that when he chooses bad behavior he is also choosing the consequences that go along with it. They can help you to cope with the depression and help you deal with the situation in a positive way that will help everyone to heal from this awful experience. Hang in there Eddie. You are not alone.

eddie p Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 3:14 PM
stepdaughter has no remorse
I would like to thank all for posting their thoughts. Today I am going to a Therapist for my anger towards my wife and my stepdaughter. It's been 3 days and my stepdaughter is acting like nothing happened, showing no signs of any trauma or remorse, going to the movies, shopping, getting ready for school, being a typical teenager. I could be in jail for the rest of my life and my wife wants me to allow the child to return home in less than 8 weeks, even allow her daughter to come into our bedroom. I remodeled our bathroom with a giant jacuzzi tub, it is really nice, but i told my wife, your daughter will never be able to come into our bedroom, this is where the bathroom is, the kids have their own bathrooms, and there is never a need for them to come into ours. Alot of you got on to KL for the comments, but I feel that way, but, I am going to two doctors to get help, and I hope my stepdaughter recants her story or at least says she is sorry. By the way this little girl has been seeing 4 different doctors for depression in the past 5 years. I have reposted my story for those who missed it, it is below, and in closing i welcome all of your opinions, yes they are all valuable, even KL's, they all help me try to understand. stepdaughter accused me of molestation My stepdaughter wanted to live with her dad, so she tried 3 plots to move to his trailer, alcohol abuse, violence and then drugs. None of these worked, so then she made up this elaborate story of being molested over a 2 year period, being as graphical as you can imagine. We went to court, it took a week, the judge found that her dad and her made up this story and ordered the dad to pay all court cost and told the dad I should sue him. My stepdaughter wanted to come home 2 hours after the verdict, I am so ANGRY, I don;t know what to do! My wife says we should forgive her and let her come home. I feel there should be some time to heal, and some group therapy to discuss the pain I am having mentally. I have missed a month of work and I am very depressed over this. How can this 14 yaer old girl do this to our family and then decide when the court beat her plan, just to come home like nothing happened? Where do I turn, before this tears my marriage apart??

NN Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 5:49 PM
What is happening?!
What is this! You are allowing a person that claims that his stepdaughter is lying about abuse to tell his thoughts with no comments at all. To tell you the truth, quite a lot of abusers would tell you the same story if you asked them. I guess you won't post this mesage, since you didn't post my last. And frankly I don't care since I think that this guestbook has gone totaly wrong. I just wanted to tell you how truly sorry I am that you have let become a forum for persons like KL, the above said persons and suchlike individuals.

KL Monday, August 2, 2004
@ 11:12 PM
Good grief...
This has not become a forum for "people like me," this has ALWAYS been a forum for people like me - Molest victims of the WTBS. I cannot believe all this uproar over someone who is a victim on the other end of the spectrum, and am appalled at those of you who took offense to Eddie's plight, the subsequent posting of it, and to my comments in response. Who are you to accept the court's ruling in favor of the victim, yet so opposed to accepting those rulings in favor of the falsely accused? Please don't be so one-sided. You cannot possibly believe that this type of thing never happens. I for one am very intrigued by this situation, for as a molest victim myself, I am worried that I too may one day have someone who knows my background try to use it to their advantage. In fact, my own wife even expressed her concerns in this regards when we first started talking about having children. I have since proved to her that I am NOT that way, and my three children will always know that they do not need to fear it. In today's sick messed-up world where everyone is out for themselves without any regard for the harm it may cause others, WE ALL NEED TO BE AWARE THAT THIS COULD HAPPEN TO US, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US WHO WOULD BE PRIME TARGETS - THOSE OF US WHO HAVE BEEN MOLESTED. You all know that the general consensus is that someone who was molested is likely to do it themselves, and it is just a matter of time before this is used against us. How thankful I am, as should all of you be, that the same techniques used by professionals to prove molestation are just as useful in disproving it. This man needs our help, not our doubts. A COURT FOUND HIM INNOCENT!!! When the courts find someone guilty, but the WTBS does not, do we not say the same thing - "A COURT FOUND HIM GUILTY"? The coin flips both ways, and I pray that I never need to experience the opposite side. Especially with all the "support" of people like NN.

KL Tuesday, August 3, 2004
@ 12:36 PM
Thanks Bill...
...for posting NN's comments. It is very helpful to know who on this board is actually a victim and who is actually on here just to "hear themselves talk." It would appear that there has risen up among us those wishing to cause divisions and sects, with only negative thoughts and sayings. And even though this person has no right to any kind of response from me or the others it has attacked, I will say this to it: Gosh, it sure breaks my spirit that you don't have any trust in me. You were the only reason I was on here; Now what will I do? Well, I'll tell you - PARTY LIKE ITS 1999!!!!! I am not lying about my abuse, and you have no right to accuse Eddie of it either. As I said before, you are an idiot if you accept it when the courts establish guilt yet refuse to accept it when they establish innocence. Who do you think you are, talking to Bill like that? He does not need to ask for proof of guilt or innocence for this site. But even if he did, Eddie and myself HAVE established our right to be here, but you? I am beginning to think that YOU should be very thankful for that, or else you may never have been admitted on here in the first place. From the way it looks, you might possibly be a molester yourself, trying to cause so much dissention and hatred on this site that everyone leaves before you and your perverted buddies get BUSTED!! Which brings up the question - why are you on here anyway? Just an outside observer trying to make a name for yourself at the expense of real victims? Or maybe you're just a p***** off ex JW who hates to admit that you DESERVED to get the boot? Perhaps you just long for attention. All wonderful, wonderful reasons to think we give a crap about your opinions.........BUT WE DON'T!!!! So go ahead and leave us alone. In the meantime, people like Eddie, me, and Bill and the SilentLambs Organization will continue to function just perfectly without you and your cohorts. And that's all the time you're worth.

FRI Tuesday, August 3, 2004
@ 5:32 PM
STEPDAUGHTER HAS NO REMORSE
Bill you dont have to post this message reg. EDDIE P eddie p, I searched the guest book way back till 2003 and did not find your name anywhere in there, and found strange that this is your first time in here with a post of that nature (forgive me if I am mistaken) and a flag went up when you posted the same story for the second time for those who have missed it, as anyone could very easily go back and read without being posted again. If that story did happen you have my sympathy as it is real hard to be accused of a crime that one did not commit and you have a big challenge ahead of you. Moreover, if it was proven in court that your step daughter was lying you have nothing to fear because of the record of lying and if she tries it again the courts will not believe it. I hope that you are genuine. But if you are not, you are just casting shadows on other peoples abuse on this site, and next time we hear a complain we will tend to dismiss it. Keep smilling.

NN Tuesday, August 3, 2004
@ 6:57 PM
etc
Well to me there ought to be one principle and that is not to post people, like eddie p, since what this person says it just as likely to be false as it is to be true. If this messageboard is for victims, it is the victims voices that ought to be heard not people like eddie p that as far as what I know just as well might be a molester since his arguments are no different from such persons. Or do any one have any proof to the contrary. About KL I must say that I think it would be better if he used his curses on the WT organisation, which strangely enough he does not want to leave in spite of all abused caused by them to him.

Tuesday, August 3, 2004
@ 9:30 PM
To Eddie
When my stepdaughters were teenagers their behavior at times was outrageous and appalling. Fourteen year olds can sometimes be total pills! Please give her another chance. I do think you, she, and your wife should go into family counseling. Your stepdaughter needs to be made aware of the damage she did to you by her behavior. It sounds like she thinks she can just go on with her merry teenaged life like nothing ever happened. But it did. I strongly encourage you all to go into family counseling! Take care, and hang in there.

KL Tuesday, August 3, 2004
@ 11:16 PM
to be or not to be
has been one of the most quoted lines in history, and now we have a new one - guilty or not guilty. NN, your thoughts are purposeful, but unintelligible. Funny how you are so quick to believe without question those who have something bad to say about the WTBS, yet they could be as full of it as the next person. In fact, it would seem logical that ANYONE posting on this site could be lying, so you are raising a mute issue. We have no way of knowing who is real and who is fake, who is an elder or who is a publisher, who is a JW or who is not, who is a victim and who is a perp, etc. I could say I am a woman who was molested by three elders and you wouldn't question me, but because I am a male molested for four years by one elder (with a court case ongoing) you think Bill should not believe me, or that Eddie (who won his court case) should not be believed because he's a victim on the other side of the issue? Like I said before, for all we know YOU could be lying too. What makes you think that you are any more believable than the rest of us? I say this to reiterate that it is not possible for Bill to screen, so if he didn't post anything from anyone who COULD BE lying, then there would be no guestbook! If you don't want to be a positive influence in this forum, then just leave. We are not forcing you to be here, in fact, we are actually starting to wish you wouldn't be. You have had NOTHING positive to add in the last few situations, and with your closed mindedness we are not expecting it anytime soon. We are gathering ourselves together on this site to incite to love and fine works, so your hate and bad attitude are way off base. And I can't believe I am wasting so much time on you, so I won't. I leave the rest up to my fellow posters who are true of heart and mind, for your misgivings ultimately apply to us all.

KL Tuesday, August 3, 2004
@ 11:33 PM
To Eddie
I am sorry that your situation (and your post) has been disgraced like this. It was never my intent to get into a war of words and philosophies with NN, but I will not allow us to be called liars, especially by someone who has no business being on here in the first place. Please do not lose faith in the rest of us, for as I said before, we are all at risk of being caught in the same trap. I THINK that counseling would be great, and I THINK that you are a strong man for standing up to such an evil plot. In the meantime, I THINK it is wise for you to not put yourself in any situations that could be used against you, such as left alone with your daughter at home or in the car, or showing of proper fatherly affection that are now going to be scrutinized by everyone who is out to get you. This is going to be tough for you, but I THINK that as long as you always document anything remotely useable, you should be ok. Now that you know where her heart and mind are at, you definitely have the upper hand. Please keep us updated.

eddie p Wednesday, August 4, 2004
@ 9:07 AM
stepdaughter and counseling
First, I would like to thank all of you for your comments. The conversations have been helpful, even the ones that have been contrary. Yes, you don't know me, but I am not lurking, I am 48 years old and I have raised 2 kids, both doing well. In my court trial 13 people testified for me, 9 were my stepdaughters relatives. When the judge read the verdict, he said that I proved that my stepdaughter was lying and her real dad plotted and schemed the whole story together. Me and my wife had a feeling 4 months ago something was strange about the way my stepdaughter would act after returning from her dads every other weekend? Well my birth daughter who is 25 yrs. old suggested we tap our phones, so we did. We caught the whole scheme on tape, each step they took. Thank god the tapes were admitted as evidence, and the Judge played a abbreviated version in the court room. My stepdaughter, her dad and her dad's mom all were caught lying under oath committing perjury. The judge ordered my stepdaughters dad to pay all court cost, attorneys fees and any cost incurred by me and my wife. TODAY WE GO TO GROUP COUNSELING, AND I HOPE MY STEPDAUGHTER SHOWS SOME REMORSE, AND i hope she will say she is sorry for what SHE HAS DONE TO OUR FAMILY. YOU SEE I ALREADY FORGAVE HER, but i will never forget, and will not allow her to put me in a situation where I can be vunerable.

Cheri Romero Wednesday, August 4, 2004
@ 4:21 PM
To NN
Listen, a person who has been falsely accused of something is a victim also, or hadnt you realized that fact? Eddie P has been traumatized also. Dont you realize that he will be scared every time one of his young step-daughters tries to hug him, or gets too close to him? Who are you to decide that he is NOT a victim? Your audacity amazes me.

Wednesday, August 4, 2004
@ 6:19 PM
Hi Eddie
Your situation is certainly more clear after your last post. The fact that you caught the culprits by wiretap really crystalizes things for me (and no doubt others). (Assuming you are being forthcoming in your posts) you were heavily targeted and victimized. I suspect that after hearing your step-daughter's voice: live and in person, plotting your demise it will be especially hard looking past this and trusting her. I must admit I have not read all your posts but I am curious in how this relates specifically to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Am I to assume that your step-daughter's biological father is a Jehovah's Witness? If so this would not surprise me in the least as the JWs were very active in the last decade and a half in branding non-Jehovah Witness parents as "sexual abusers" going so far as to psychologically interfere with minors to accomplish this task. I am told that they even produced a "video" for children to watch which was filled with subliminal and "psychoactive" messages to cause nightmares and bizarre fantasy descriptions. If you were a victim of a sinister plot like this then you definitely have a long road of healing ahead. It sounds to me like your step-daughter will need the most healing and counseling in order for her to reconcile a life of dismissing her biological Dad as a waste of human flesh. Good luck my friend and keep communicating.

eddie p Thursday, August 5, 2004
@ 12:56 AM
first day of therapy
" YOUR ADVICE IS AWESOME, YOUR SUPPORT DEVINE" Today I went to the therapist with my wife, my stepdaughter went with my wife's mom, and my stepdaughter went in first for 45 minutes, then my wife and myself went in. When my stepdaughter came into the lobby an saw me, she had a look to kill at me, but never said a word, completely ignoring me as if i weren't there! When my wife and I went into the therapist office, the therapist said my stepdaughter has no remorse nor does she understand what she did to the family. The court sheltered her from the whole trial, and her real dad is still being secretive and telling untruths to her. The therapist said she will slowly break the news to my stepdaughter that her dads plan didn't work and the courts have vindicated myself from any wrong. The therapist also said that she doesn't beleive my stepdaughter will ever come home, due to the denial that my stepdaughter has about the whole mess her dad and she schemed up. The therapist made my stepdaughter sign a contract on telling the truth, if she lies to the therapist, the therapist will recuse herself and my stepdaughter will have to seek another therapist. MY WIFE WANTS THE FAMILY BACK TOGETHER IN 2 MONTHS, but two doctors so far said this is impossible, this will take a long time, probably 4 to 6 months, just to hard to predict. HOW DO YOU MAKE ONE FEEL REMORSE, WHEN NONE EXIST? HOW DO YOU MAKE ONE FEEL SORROW FOR OTHERS WHEN NONE EXIST. HOW DOES ONE ADMIT FAULT, WHEN THEY BELEIVE THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG. HOW CAN YOU GET SOMEONE TO SAY THEY WON'T DO THIS AGAIN, WHEN THEY FEEL THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING TO BEGIN WITH. THIS IS MY DELIMMA, I HAVE FORGIVEN MY STEPDAUGHTER, NOW HOW CAN SHE COME HOME WITHOUT ANY CONDITIONS OR RULES ATTACHED. TOMMORROW MY WIFE WILL TRY TO COMMUNICATE SOME OF THESE REASONS WHY SHE CAN'T COME , AND EXPLAIN THE CONDITIONS AND RULES SHE WILL HAVE TO FOLLOW. EDDIE P.

ilidio Thursday, August 5, 2004
@ 3:42 PM
EDDIE P
eddie p, the advice from the therapist sounds a bit strange to me. A therapist signing a contract with a client to tell the truth? A therapist not understanding why your step daughter does not have any remorse? From what I have seen your posts are very recent, therefore, you can not have your problem resolved in a week. Who is the therapist a JW elder? It sure hell sounds like it. In my opinion you are at the wrong therapist. Things will take time to heal, a long time if you must know. Perhaps MAN can come up and shed some light on this matter.

KL Thursday, August 5, 2004
@ 7:00 PM
To M.A.N.
Ilidio stated "Perhaps MAN can come up and shed some light on this matter." I agree - NOW is the time we need you to use all the skills you kept telling us you have. Are you there?

KL Thursday, August 5, 2004
@ 7:02 PM
Therapy contracts
Not so strange really. Mine had me do the same thing. Same thing with my attorneys. They need an out clause in case the person is full of crap and just using the therapy sessions so they can name drop.

eddie p Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 8:59 AM
no remorse
Today my wife confronted her daughter. All my stepdaughter could say was that everyone is a liar, and she wants to go live with her real dad. My wife asked her how she felt about hurting our family, and she only said; just let me go to dad's and all this will go away and everything will be great, just let me try it for a year or 2. There was more said, but what my wife told me was the child always reverted back to me, me, me, and never anyone else. She could not relate to how she has destroyed her relationship with me or how financially she has impacted her dad and me. Therapy will take a long time, the therapist said 6 to 8 months conservatively. My stepdaughter has been going to Doctors for 5 or more years, cut her wrist twice, stole, lied, forged moms name 4 times, asked boys for sex, and the list is alot longer. I see no way out of this, Doctors are trying, and my wife is coming unglued. The little girl keeps saying I am the Problem, but I am not even there anymore? Today we go to more doctors, and on monday two more doctors. I will keep you up to date on this, and try not to bore you, but to me nothing has changed, except a lot of money and pain and suffering by my family and her real dad. You see this little girl has been like this before i came into her life, full of anger and sadness, and meaness. Her sign on to the internet is: *******, she says i can be as nice as an angel, and as mean as the devil when i want to. Thanking you again! Eddie P. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ --------This post has been edited for anonymity

ilidio Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 10:11 AM
KL
sorry KL but no real therapist on his right mind would do such a thing with a 14 year old. I dont know what kind of quacks (if that is how you spell it) you have as therapists you are using. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- Unless you happen to have expertise in the field of psychology this type of comment only serves to fuel pointless controversy. Please keep your posts relevant to the mission of Silentlambs.

ilidio Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 11:53 AM
bill
with 2 therapists in the family I very much qualify to voice my opinion. They actually never heard of such a thing. ------------------------------------------------------------ --------- That's fine that you have professional opinions. The problem is psychology is a soft science and opinions will vary widely. Now back to the real issue, how do your (includes every poster) comments contribute to this site's mission of of helping and being a support center for sexualy abused children inside of Jehovah's Witnesses? Silentlambs

ilidio Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 12:55 PM
Bill
I am very passionate on the subject as my wife was very much abused and molested by her father. I have gone to the extent of dowloading your articles and gone to schools to talk about the subject. You seem to be a bit on edge everytime I voice my opinion. If you would rather keep me away from posting I will do just that. No hard feelings about it, I will continue supporting silentlambs regardless if I am allowed to post in here or not. Many thanks,ilidio ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- Your comments are very welcomed if we can stay focused on the real issue. Silentlambs Editor

Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 1:12 PM
Eddie
I must admit Eddie I am beginning to question your motives for posting here. You do so often and it is beginning to appear self serving. You have never once mentioned what this has to do with the Silent Lambs and the rampant abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses. You were already specifically asked this and you chose to avoid it. Further still, I see contradictions in your postings where you say initially your step daughter is not living with you but then a day later you say she is living with you but wants to live with her biological father: "The therapist also said that she doesn't beleive my stepdaughter will ever come home"; and, "THIS IS MY DELIMMA, I HAVE FORGIVEN MY STEPDAUGHTER, NOW HOW CAN SHE COME HOME"; but then the next day you say "All my stepdaughter could say was that everyone is a liar, and she wants to go live with her real dad"; and "just let me go to dad's and all this will go away and everything will be great, just let me try it for a year or 2". I am beginning to think that you are either trying to manipulate us or you are involved in some sad custody struggle. At first I was sympathetic but your posts are daily, lengthy and self serving. How does this relate to sexual abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses or the fact their lawyers and head office cover it up?

David Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 1:49 PM
Thank Jehovah!
I thank Jehovah that an organization exists that watchs over our children in this situation!May god bles you as you continue to watch over his children!

legal eagle Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 4:52 PM
to KL
I thought you had been advised by your lawyers not to post on this site? Some of your comments display a hatred of Jehovah's witnesses and could be used against you in court to discredit your evidence. So - be careful what you say here.

KL Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 6:05 PM
Eddie's plight
It could be that he posts here every day because several of us have asked him to do so, plus, we did not know that Bill had set a limit on posts by any one individual. He sees fit to disallow any post he doesn't think is relevant or proper, so it is actually HIM you are attacking, not Eddie. Eddie's relationship to JW is not an issue, although it would be nice to know, so how can anyone question his right to post his plight on here when the same people would jump at the chance to rip the WTBS on unrelated issues. It's Bill's website, so I THINK we should all let HIM decide who gets to post on here. And what's with all the bashing lately? It is definitely not conducive to a favorable atmosphere.

KL Friday, August 6, 2004
@ 9:03 PM
Legal Eagle
You thought? Maybe you shouldn't think. Oh, wait, I know, you were that fly on the wall listening to our conversation, weren't you? I knew I should have squashed you then, like I am going to do now: Not that you deserve an answer, but my attorneys did NOT advise me to keep from posting here, only not to post about my case, so I haven't. I have been very careful with my posts, so what the hell are you talking about? None of my posts show a hatred for the JW's, only a hatred for people like you who try to change my words into something they are not. That being said, I don't think anyone expects molest victims to be happy with what happened to them. I am still a JW and always will be one, so quit harming me by saying I hate it. Frustration, yes, hatred, no. Nothing I do has anything to do with how I feel about them, and I remain among them in order to stalk the stalkers from the inside AND because it leaves an open line of communication to my family. But that is my business and I am sick and tired of everyone questioning my motives in that regard. And as far as my posts discrediting my evidence? YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MY EVIDENCE IS, STUPID! Nice try, though. My attorneys monitor this site daily, so if they thought I was doing anything to damage my case, THEY would tell me. What makes you think I would give a rat's ass what you say, when I have REAL attorneys to give me counsel? You need to change your name to Legal Doe-Doe Bird, because with much more advice like that, you'll be extinct too! ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------Its time for everyone to end this personal flame war and focus on the mission of this site. Silentlambs Editor

NN Saturday, August 7, 2004
@ 3:22 AM
a farce?!
Country I must say this last "Eddie thing" is making me wonder if this message board is changing it's purpose. Just of a sudden people - or aka's - like Eddie p and KL is getting the clear to state anything they wish, but people like me get censored, even though I did notice you had publish my message ("etc") that first was deleted and pinned down as "of no interest what so ever". I think it is time that the persons running this board took time to think or else you might loose the people really needing this message board, like myself when I was on my way out, I got a great comfort from reading the relevant stories about different kinds of abuse that I could recognize from own experiences, so as to help me better understand what this destructive sect was all about. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Silentlambs reserves the sole right to post, edit, or delete any post that does not conform to our criteria. You have been invited to post topics and comments relevant to our mission. We are glad you have been helped and with that aim we are making sure the posts to this site help other Jehovah's Witnesses who may visit this site. Silentlambs Editor

EDDIE P. Saturday, August 7, 2004
@ 9:52 AM
a christian at heart
First of all I practice the Golden rule, I have a love for all People, no matter what their religious convictions are. We all can contribute something in this life, good and bad, I choose GOOD. My coming to this site is to deal with my pain and anger towards my stepdaughter, yes I know I sound self serving, and for that I apologize. I have seen 2 therapist so far and 2 more this Monday, and I am beginning to understand human behavior better. Thanks to all of you for allowing me to post, I am healing, forgiving, and letting go of the pain and anger. Let me clarify some things, my stepdaughter is living with my wife's mom till we can bring the family back together. The Doctors will decide when we come together again. My stepdaughter is a liar and always was, this area we have been trying to resolve, it is hard to know reality from fiction when one has no honesty. Why am I here? I did a web search and found all of you, and I wanted your opinion, one that was slanted heavily in my stepdaughters favor. How could I understand how she felt if I went to a site where all of you felt sorry for me! In closing: All I want to do is pick up the pieces and put them back together, Thanks to most of you and the doctors, I have some of the pieces picked up. One Doctor said to me and my wife; LET GO OF WHAT YOU CAN'T CONTROL OR FIX, IGNORE THE BAD BEHAVIOR, LIKE IT DIDN'T EXIST, DON'T FUEL IT, REWARD THE GOOD BEHAVIOR, STOP LETTING THIS CONSUME BOTH OF YOU, GO ON A DATE TONIGHT, AND LET TIME GO BY, LET THE DOCTORS DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO TO BRING YOUR FAMILY BACK TOGETHER AGAIN. The Date went great, and Monday is around the corner. I will post two more times, if you will allow me. After my Doctors visits on this Monday, and When my stepdaughter comes home. Thank you all for allowing me to express myself here, you have all helped me help myself, but most importantly you have helped me help my wife and stepdaughter. At first I used words like never and can't, and I have replaced them with; we will see and let's give it a try. Eddie P.

mp Saturday, August 7, 2004
@ 10:18 PM
to Eddie P and to the mole
Eddie P, it sounds to me like you are on the right track. Stay on it and everything will work out. Your stepdaughter may not change, but no one can blame you for not trying and you can at least save your marriage. To the mole, you sound like you are in pain which I understand completely. You could have been talking about my family. You just keep showing the kind of love towards Grandma and others that you would like for them all to show. When she is gone, you may be the only one who has peace of mind knowing you did what you could while you could. I've been there. I hope the best for both you and Eddie P.

KL Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 2:47 AM
Back to the mission...
Excellent Idea. I'll start by asking (and answering) a question: Who here is a REAL victim and what is your story? I am limited in what I can say about my situation since it is in court, but I can say that I was molested by an Elder for four years as a teenager and am on this site to gain insight and knowledge about the problem and to assist others with anything I can based on my own trauma. I am very thankful to Bill for all his efforts to help us and hope that this site can save the minds and hearts of every soul violated by a member of the WTBS.

NN Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 3:03 AM
Missed point
First, no one has invited me to this site, secondly I was helped by Jehovah, other people and myself (and this is a point that is important to people trapped in sects that they try to take away their independence when in fact a person is not dependent on any one since we all have a free will and a personal responsibility) thirdly, you missed my point, by my own example I wanted to exemplify that you are compromising the aim of this site by allowing huge lot of space to people like KL and eddie p. I wonder why you are doing this, to me it is against the spirit of silent lambs. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------------- You are entitled to your opinion as a visitor to this site. I repeat it is our sole discretion to make the final decision on posts, agree or disagree we stand by our criteria. Silentlambs Editor

AK Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 7:40 AM
Abuse ignored
Let me tell you of a personal experience with abuse in this organization: About 3 years ago a young married sister (one of my best friends at the time) came to my home to let me know about physical abuse at the hands of her husband. He is about 6'4", 320#s, she is 5'5', 120 or so! The elders refused to get involved and she feared for her life. I was a MS and Pioneer at the time. To make a long story, short, after 6 months of separation, dozens of discussions with my wife and I to give her an outlet she (out of Watchtower guilt) returned to her husband. The elders accused me of fornication (even though nothing improper ever occurred, and no accusation of such was made by her, I am sure they felt deprived of the juicy details that she told me and not them after she lost confidence in them), she lives in a loveless marriage and in fear. Nothing positive came out of the elders 'shepherding' efforts but pain. They are not even trained to handle simple abuse that is obvious with bruises. How could they ever handle serious abuse with children that have been threatened, reviled and compromised before they understand what is happening at such a tender age? They cannot, will not, and don't want to. Maybe if the Society let them count the hours for their field report? Since that worthless piece of paper seems to be all that matters to them anyway!!! Jesus will not be reading their field reports when he renders judgment against those that have accepted such weighty responsibility, will He? Keep up the good work here SL. May Jehovah bless your efforts! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Thank you for your kind words. Silentlambs

His Word Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 9:14 AM
A prayer for today
Your post has been deleted due to your preaching that is unwelcomed and irrelevant to victims. This site is not for Jehovah's Witnesses or anyone else merely repeating theology that does nothing for victims deeply wounded by the Watchtower's policies. Silentlambs

His Word Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 3:48 PM
am not a Jehovah
This post has been deleted. You state you have never been a Jehovah's Witness and were merely trying to comfort victims of sexual abuse by quoting scripture. Victims of sexual abuse have heard all this before. Silentlambs

Jacob Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 4:42 PM
to AK
It is better for an abused wife to see a doctor ( to check out her injuries) and also go to the police first. ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------This post has been edited for content value. Silentlambs

His Word Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 5:23 PM
I didn't say that
I didn't say I was never a JW I said I am not one! And I wasn't sexually abused, but my Dad Beat me so many times. Sometimes I couldn't wear a dress for a week or more because my back and butt and legs were so black and blue and sometimes bleeding. Gheesh, now I'm upset and crying. One day it was getting dark and I just walked in the room and all I did was turn on the light. I didn't know he was in the room till he grabbed me and beat me sooo hard and sooo long, I was screaming Daddy I'm sorry I'm sorry, but he kept beating me till he got the devil or whatever out of himself. Once he asked me if I remembered him beating me when I was 4 years old. He told me he beat me till he was to tired and I had to be kept in the house so people could't see me. And you know what? I don't remember that one. I must have shut it out of my memory. I know beatings are nothing compared to sexual abuse and that is just one reason I didn't mention it. I still Love my Dad and always will and you don't have to post this either. I love you also, and all the Silent Lambs. And by the way.. I'm really not sure God's name is Jehovah. The Jews didn't call him that. So let me know if someone starts a new religion that is truly based on Love. The Bible says God Is LOVE ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------You are a physical abuse survivor and your story about your recovery will help victims much more than merely quoting scripture. Welcome to our site. Silentlambs

Andy E Sunday, August 8, 2004
@ 6:40 PM
Paedophiliia Was Always
I studied with the Jehovah's Witnesses from 1991-93 but did not become a Witness (well, let's not go into all my personal story again!). A few months before I left a respected elder informed me about incest/pedophilia within our local area and, therefore, indicating how Jehovah's organization was ultra-clean by comparison. I never doubted his word. Cut to June 2002 and I see a report on BBC Wales about a Jehovah's Witness being arrested in connection with child molestation at a children's care home 20 years previously. Around this time BBC2 is broadcasting "The Hunt For Britain's Pedophiles" highlighting the current problem in the U.K. One month later I am watching a BBC Panorama documentary on Osama Bin Laden when, at the end, it previews the following week's documentary, focusing on Jehovah's Witnesses shielding known pedophiles from police and putting children at risk. So I'm thinking, in possible reference to the BBC Wales news report a month earlier, "These must be people that have molested children before they became Winesses therefore, because they have changed their ways and no longer practice what they did in their former lives, the organization is obliged to protect them". When I watched the documentary a week later I discovered a far different tale. The perpetrators were in fact baptized members at the time of commiting these offenses. They were actually ministerial servants and in some cases, elders. I will never, I repeat, never, remember how shocked I was to discover these revelations. I have seen similar documentaries from Austalia, Canada, Germany and U.S.A since then, all reporting on the same theme. To think, I was just an associate member for 2 years, a decade prior to discovering this. What must have been the reaction to all those well-meaning Witnesses of several years experience, thinking that this kind of thing just didn't happen within the church ? Obviously I don't need to imagine what your reaction was, Bill ?

Cheri R Monday, August 9, 2004
@ 6:07 AM
In answer to KL's question
As for myself, I consider myself a "survivor" not a victim but my story is one like many others. I was born and raised a JW by an alcoholic fanatical mother who married a man with 3 daughters when I was 12 years old. Previous to this marriage she was married to my father who molested and raped both of my older sisters, who were 7 and 8 years older than me. (Incidently, one of my sisters is mentally ill to the point of not knowing any of us). My father was a ministerial servant and a blatant child rapist. When I was 14 years old, my mother and step-father took turns beating me in the back of our van to beat the demons out of me and while my mother was driving and wasnt looking, my step-father molested and sodomized me. When I went to the elders in our congregation for help, they questioned my step-father and he denied it and you know what happened from there already!!! They told me to keep quiet and not to tell anyone or I could be disfellowshipped. I went straight to one of my teachers in school and then to the police. Needless to say, I was disfellowshipped for bringing reproach on the name of Jehovah. I turned my mother and step-father in for the abuse and was taken from them and sent to foster homes at the age of 14. This same step-father was also accused of molest by his own daughter (who is also mentally ill) and when she gave birth to a baby girl in a mental institution, my parents took that baby to adopt and when that baby was 18 months old, they found that she too had been severely molested so they took her away from them. My step-father is still a witness in good standing and my mother has since died but he married a woman young enough to be his daughter and she has daughters and grand-daughters available to him for continued molesting. I found this site quite by accident almost 2 years ago and was shocked to my core. At that time I had my memories come back about my step-father abusing me and became a devout member of silent lambs. I cannot say enough how much of a hero that I see Bill Bowen as. He has spent countless hours and days and weeks and his savings to implement this site and his efforts are sooooo appreciated by me. Thank you Bill. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------Thank you for your kind comments. Silentlambs Editor

eddie p. Monday, August 9, 2004
@ 4:57 PM
Forgiveness
Today I have truly reached forgiveness. TWO doctors, Two HOURS, and I HAVE REACHED the point of Forgiveness. My time with you all is over, and I thank all of you. Peace in my heart has been acchieved, and for that I thank all of you. Eddie P.

dm Monday, August 9, 2004
@ 7:00 PM
WHAT JESUS SAID
sometimes these sites take on an energy of their own, not always healthy. I think your webpage and comments are helpful and give people who have been spiritually enslaved a place to "let it out". ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------------------Your post has been edited due to preacing content. Silentlambs

jen Monday, August 9, 2004
@ 8:30 PM
hi bill
This is a big step. I am so not sure what I want to tell you. One thing.... Margaret and Jacob... I know what your intentions are. I understand. Go. This isn't your forum. This is NOT the place to discuss doctrine and what not. This is for people to come together and help one another through this hell. You are not helping. I don't know you. But I do understand where you are coming from. If you don't know an abuse survivor, then you don't have a clue what these people are going through. Margaret and Jacob... and all of you who think this is not as big as Bill is making it out to be.... It's everywhere. Last year, I think, when the media went nuts with the Catholic abuse, I told my "worldly" husband that if I ever found out there were the same problem in the JW's there would be a problem. Hmmmmm Right after that was a program on tv. I have NO IDEA which one. The elders pretty much said it would be the same thing as talking with apostates so I never gave it much thought. Then a few months ago came the article in the paper. My world fell. I talked to my mom. I talked to my sister. My sister hasn't said much. I dropped it. My mom, well she's been more open minded. I found out there was a friend of the family whose daughter had been raped by a ms and though his privileges were removed for a short time, he was a ms before long. The daughter is no longer a jw and neither is her mother. THe mother and father are divorced. Recently, I remembered something disturbing. I dated a guy who had been REPROVED for molesting a little girl. This was years ago. I now have 2 little girls. One has down syndrome. This has shaken my faith in everything I have ever known and held dear. I am depressed and scared. I have seen a world where children will never say I love you to their parents. Not because they don't want to but because they cannot. I have seen horrible and sad things. I see it on the news. IF this IS JEHOVAH'S earthly representation of HIS kingdom and here I sit missing my meeting to finally tell you what I'm thinking, I'm toast. And my girls are lost. They are my life. God could take me and torture me an eternity in hell for blaspheming, but my girls..... They are my world. If this IS NOT and here I sit still saying the truth, and there is a hell, well.... so bill what do we do? The guy I dated... The girl he molested her name was either Tia or Mariah something like that. She lived in the Garden City area of MI. The guy who molested her. His name was Paul. If you're out there. I'm here. I know another girl, her name was Kimmie. Kimmie, if you're there, I'm here. Another one, Lisa, if you're there I'm here. After I first came here, I thought that I could go back and you know... But then came the district assembly. The brochure. I saw it too. Bill, I never left you guys. I have just needed time. I've kept Sheila's email in my book. You guys.... If anyone says stupid shit (hee hee i swore lol) that has nothing to do with anything or demeans your suffering. Ignore it. Don't even dignify it with a response. Margaret and Jacob just GO. Seriously, this is not your forum. Let these people be. Look.... I have hair dye in right now. And I think it's been in for almost an hour because I lost track of time. FYI can someone find out who we are??? my po asked for my email and I have a weird feeling about it.

DJB Monday, August 9, 2004
@ 10:21 PM
Web site purpose?
I know that many go on about the beliefs of the witnesses and some are for and some against. I feel that this is a place where victims can come and get support from other victims regardless of whether they still believe the teachings of the witnesses. I am still a member. MY STANDING HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED!!! I still believe the teachings of the witnesses but I have separated the beliefs from the need to be connected to the organization. ..................... I believe I can still serve Jehovah God and please him without associating with the organized group. They have not protected my children and I from the offenders. ...............................I can not see how God could approve. The witnesses from one corner of their mouths say they condem and punish sex offenders and claim to protect the victims from further trauma. WHAT DO THEIR ACTIONS SHOW???? The other corner of their mouths they claim the offenders have changed and are repentant and we the victims are not being forgiving. Most offenders are never disfellowshipped or only briefly. Welcomed with opened arms and the elders go to court to support them. THIS IS WHY I DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THE ORGANIZATION AND ATTEND MEETINGS!!! The organization by their actions show where their hearts are and who their father is. As Jesus told the religious leaders of his day "You are from your father the devil and do the works of your father..." Need I say more!!!Their actions shows who really they worship regardless of what they say!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agus H Tuesday, August 10, 2004
@ 4:50 AM
Jehovah knows our heart.
Hi i am an exJW and i have been sexually molested more than once, but not within the organization. However quite a few of my friends were, and I walked with them through their pain, fear and ultimate rejection.

AK Tuesday, August 10, 2004
@ 7:25 PM
to Jen
Re: the things you have seen that have disturbed you are manifold thoughout the world! Bill has correctly stated the policies of the organization in this regard, sadly. And we have all seen the evidence. To me, the complete lack of Christlike love in action compeled me to leave this organization. Further inspection has revealed the accuracy of that first thought. Jesus said 'By this all will know you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.' There were no if, ands, or buts in his statement. I too remain in 'good standing', although we have been shunned entirely the past 6 months. No trial, no inquiries. But we have heard the gossip that has judged us as apostates. No matter, we do not wish to be associated with those who condone the molestation of children. Jehovah would exteriminate those that give even tacit approval. So fear not and stand your moral high-ground! God will bless you. As far as the CO asking for your email- DO BEWARE. A smooth operator can get a lot of info with that. But I do not believe that the system here (on SL) is an issue, except to the most tenacious hacker, since you do not give any of that info to post here. I too, have suspected that the elders here (one of whom is a computer technician) have tried to access my private email. They would love to accuse me of apostasy and DF me. This only proves just how paranoid and foolish this group has become. I post here regularly and they have no idea. Please do not let fear take away your Christian freedom. That is a gift from Christ Jesus. We can all be thankful that Bill Bowen and his group have not let fear stand in the way of right. May God bless all that have such courage! Jeff

Cheri R Tuesday, August 10, 2004
@ 10:15 PM
To NN
You know, you drone on about how you are censored and whine about this and that. Then you argue with silentlambs editor about whether you were invited here or not. The truth is, the guest book says, " GUESTBOOK, PLEASE SIGN IN" newsflash! That is an invitation! So you were invited. Additionally, you say that KL and Eppie P are allowed to say anything they like and you arent? KL has been censored too. You have spoken on how you dont believe that Eddie belongs here and how you doubt that he is a REAL victim etc... Why dont you encourage and support instead of whine and promote negativity? Focus on being uplifting so that someone in great pain can be helped. You have to "give it away to keep it" give away some encouragment and love. It works wonders.

Cheri R Tuesday, August 10, 2004
@ 10:19 PM
Just some paranoia
Does anyone else feel like there is something odd about Eddie's closing? Am I being paranoid? That is really weird. Just my own thoughts and opinion.

K Tuesday, August 10, 2004
@ 11:29 PM
To Cheri R
Yes, Eddie's closing does seem odd--problems like his aren't usually resolved so quickly! The pain from betrayals within my family have lasted for years--not because I want to hang on to it--it just hurts so much. My brother and I seemed to be like twins--finishing each other's ideas, but since finding out that he had molested my sister, it's as if he is someone I don't know. Might as well have cut off my right arm!!!

las Wednesday, August 11, 2004
@ 5:04 PM

God be with you all! It seems as though god has left us sometimes when really he is carrying us.

bjrp Thursday, August 12, 2004
@ 5:42 AM
time to be honest
If witnesses believe themselves to be a religion and not a cult,then be open and honest. Stop hiding behind the organization,and tell the TRUTH about what is happening. If not things will only become worse and any credible standing among society will be gone for good..

Jacob Thursday, August 12, 2004
@ 4:45 PM
to jen
Ive only discussed doctrine when others have raised issues of doctrine. I notice Margaret has done the same. Im not here to preach but to help. SL is now deleting all doctrinal posts and I say - bravo! The beliefs of Jehovah's witnesses are irrelevant to the problem of child abuse. It is the failure of elders in some cases do do what is right.

Thursday, August 12, 2004
@ 10:13 PM
Jacob at it again
Well Jacob (or should I be referring to you as PR for WTBTS or perhaps a lawyer in their legal department). I see you're still active in posting propoganda here still. Just a thought for you Jacob: Maybe some elders wouldn't fail if they were not being given directions and advice to cover up the abuse and protect the abuser? That is our cause here at SL to end that practice. If all you can do is come and spread untruths and propoganda on this board then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

AK Friday, August 13, 2004
@ 3:41 PM
to jacob
Jacob - you are wrong! The beliefs of Jehovah's witnesses are at the heart of the problem with child abuse! Jw's think that they alone have the protection and guidance of the Almighty, and that gives them the view that they are not required to act in accord with the 'worldly' authorities when dealing with these situations. So even though elders are by-and-large knowingly unprepared and unqualified to deal with such difficult emotional and legal issues as child-rape, the GB has directed that they do so under it's tutelage. It is the beliefs of Jehovah's witnesses that causes these 'elders' who should know better, to over ride good judgement and allow a committee of a few men to make determination about the handling of these serious matters! Typical of that attitude (expressed as religious dogma and directions)in one BOE letter that is floating on the net, and posted here, that even shows that in the case of murder the elders (not acting alone) have been directed to turn a blind eye. That direction came directly from the Brooklyn Ivory Tower itself. (Perhaps Bill would so kindly direct us to that site location as I have forgotten where it is?) When otherwise intelligent and capable men make such foolish choices at the direction of a religious body, then it EXACTLY the religious beliefs of that group that has caused the damage!!! May SL continue to do this vital work in getting the 'religious beliefs of Jehovah's witnesses' to change, so that this problem is addressed! Jeff

Jacob Saturday, August 14, 2004
@ 2:42 AM
what I would do
If my child was raped or abused the first thing I would do is to call the police. A crime has been committed and elders deal with sin, the police deal with crime. Police doctors usually are very gentle and sympathetic counsellors and unlike elders they are able to get forensic evidence which could lead to a conviction. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------Your post has beed edited due to your straw man argument which is a mute point. Silentlambs Editor

legal eagle Saturday, August 14, 2004
@ 2:48 AM
court cases
What's happening with all the court cases?

An old friend Saturday, August 14, 2004
@ 8:57 AM
To AK: Here is the link
I believe this may be what you are looking for. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm

Cheri Romero Saturday, August 14, 2004
@ 3:16 PM
To Illidio
Please do not leave this forum. Your comments are mostly comforting and caring. i really dont think anyone meant to offend you or hurt your feelings.

Jacob Saturday, August 14, 2004
@ 11:11 PM
to SL
Do you know of any actual proven examples where the Watchtower Society has instructed elders in writing to cover up abuse and protect pedophiles? Or are you going only by the one phone call you made to the WT legal dept and the BAD advice given by one person? ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------- Your question will be put up for all to see but will not be answered. This is a question that will be answered in the courts. Silentlambs Editor

KL Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 2:27 AM
TO/RE: IL-Legal Eagle
What are you talking about? You know that we can't discuss our cases. ***** Bill, do you know who this clown is? Just a few days ago he pitifully tried to look smarter than I am and tried to tell me what to do in regards to posting about my case, which I haven't done for a long time, then turns around and has the audacity to ask for that same information, and from ALL the cases? He knows it would be devastating to our cases if we did that. Definitely an agent of the WTBS if you ask me. EVERYONE LOOK OUT FOR THIS FRAUD - HE IS WANTING US TO DIVULGE INFORMATION THAT THE WTBS CAN USE AGAINST US!!!!!!! DO NOT POST ANY ASPECTS OF YOUR CASE (OR EVEN ANY THAT YOU KNOW ABOUT), FOR THIS WOULD WAIVE YOUR ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVELEGE AND THEY WILL HAVE YOU BY THE BALLS. Again.

Betrade Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 7:54 AM
Jacob
YOU say, It is the failure of elders in some cases to do what is right But this is not the truth, as I think you now the society has very carefull rules that if something like this shows up we must call the headquarter at once. From What I understand they decide everything when it comes to abuse from elders to young girls or boys.And the elders in the cong have to follow this.

LD Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 8:39 AM
Police should always be informed
I believe police should always be told of such things in the same way you would report any other crime against yourself or family. I was around 9 years old when abused by my brother. My divorced mother had brought us up as JW. I felt completely unable to tell anyone about what happened to me until I was in my late thirties. I told my older sister. She then informed me that she had been abused much worse than I by not only my brother but raped by many of his friends as well - some of them young JWs. I left JWs at 17 with major emotional and relationship problems that I thought were my fault.

Silentlambs Editor Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 11:46 AM
Your Posts
As you may have noticed by now Bill is no longer monitoring your posts. If you need to reach him write to info@silentlambs.org. If I have offended anyone my apologies to you, my intention is to keep your posts focused on the real issues and to determine their value to other visitors that may read them.

Patricia W Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 1:47 PM
lost Unlce and Aunt to Jehovah's Witnesses
My aunt joined the Jehovah's Witnesses in Alaska where my Uncle was stationed in the Air Force. They brainwashed him to leave the Air Force after 18 years. He would not stay in to retire full pentition two more years.. It devastated the whole family especially my grandmother. We are all the non believers. Yeh right..

berade Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 3:07 PM
To Jacob
You ask." Do you know of any actual proven examples where the Watchtower Society has instructed elders in writing to cover up abuse and protect pedophiles? Or are you going only by the one phone call you made to the WT legal dept and the BAD advice given by one person" I can answer this, beacuse I have some personal experience. hen this came up on TV even in my country, it hit me as a knife in my back, I have some knowledge about things that was not so funny, I dont want to tell this here because it involves people who were close to me. But I can tell you that I told things I was an eye wittneses to a very long time ago it hurt me very much because this was like killing some part of myself to tell it to the elders.. Well it all ends up that the cong question the people involved and they confess what I told the two the elders, but now start the funny thing is no committee is formed an elder and girl under 15, evrything was decided by the headqurters, they decide nothing is going to happen, only step down as an elder, the cong was told nothing. If you want to call this hiding or not its your problem for me it was unbelievable to understand that this heavy sin was treated like it was nothing, especially as I have some children that were dfd for much minor things than this. The lesson from this was if you hide things a long time, you go almost free, even if you as an elder use young girls for your personal sexual satisfaction. I can tell you it hurts to see before your eyes that what the media says is what happend, I never belived it before I saw it myself, I was thinking about writing to the hedqurters and ask how they can do this, but some friend told me in the cong it is like writing to the mafia and tell them that you understand what they are doing, not so good perhaps.

kimberly b Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 5:44 PM
fake people
In my opinion, there are several fake abuse victims posting on this board. Something really strange is happening with the "top DOGS" at the WTBS. It seems to me that they are scambling around to "save face". And they probably are using fake victims to post on this board to gather info. Like it was mentioned earlier they are working overtime to pull information out of those that have been victimized by their false doctrines and policies. In my part of the State in which I live,one Kingdom Hall has been sold and another one was just put up for sale. In all of my years of being a JW (definitely NOT one now - 2 years out of it),I have never seen or heard of them selling buildings and property. If anything, they usually tear down and remodel and/or expand. They ARE NOT buying any other property to replace the one sold. This behavior to me, stikes me as being very odd for them. Could it be that they need more cash for the many lawsuits? I hope that they go broke! Looks like they will need to "beg for bread" after all.!

MA Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 7:54 PM
Errant Elders
Some claim that the whole problem of child abuse within the Org is not the beliefs of JWs but simple errant elders. What then is the belief behind some publishers who have left reason after being involved with child abuse and not got counselling, gone to police, spoken freely etc. This Watchtower may give an incite w99 6/1 pp. 16-17 Appreciating the Gifts in Men *** 11 We can demonstrate our appreciation for the gifts in men by being quick to heed their Bible-based counsel and decisions. The Bible advises us: Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over your souls as those who will render an account; that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you. (Hebrews 13:17) Notice that we must not only be obedient but also be submissive to those taking the lead. The Greek word for be submissive literally means be you yielding under. Commenting on the expressions be obedient and be submissive, Bible scholar R. C. H. Lenski says: One obeys when one agrees with what he is told to do, is persuaded of its correctness and profitableness; one yields . . . when he has a contrary opinion. When we understand and agree with the direction of those taking the lead, obedience may come readily. But what if we do not understand the reason behind a particular decision? 12 Here is where we may need to be submissive, or yielding. Why? For one thing, we need to trust that these spiritually qualified men have our best interests at heart. After all, they well know that they must render an account to Jehovah for the sheep committed to their care. (James 3:1) In addition, we do well to remember that we may not know all the confidential facts that led them to an informed decision.Proverbs 18:13. ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- This post is being put up for readers to see the convoluted logic of Watchtower apologists. Silentlambs Editor

Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 8:27 PM
The police
I agree that it is a good idea to go the police in case of rape or molestation. Especially if the police station has a doctor who can check you out. I say this because of a personal experience (I was not a Witness at the time). It was a long time ago, and it is a long story. All I knew after it was over was that I wanted to see a doctor. I saw one at the police station. He was very kind, caring, and gentle. I am very glad that I saw this doctor and that I talked to the police. Please, don't let anyone talk any of you victims out of going to the police. Also, seek counseling with a professional, someone educated in the mental health field and trained to help abuse victims, someone who understands the mental and emotional agony and anquish one goes through after a rape or molestation (or any kind of abuse). Don't let anyone intimidate you to try and keep you from seeing the police and from seeking professional help. Elders are not educated and trained for things like this. "Headquarters" doesn't know what they are talking about or what they are doing. All they are doing is covering up heinous abuse situations to make the WTBTS look oh so lovely and pearly white. Well, it's not.

MA Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 8:40 PM
Straw man
I thought this was interesting and didnt know the actual meaning of the expression I posted the meaning just in case there was someone else as dim as me :-)&&A straw man is a caricature of ones opponent you make up and give weak arguments that you can easily refute, so you can seem to beat him without really engaging his real arguments.

legal eagle Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 8:45 PM
to KL
There are court cases coming up, not just yours. The results are usually published on this site in newsletters. They havent been any such posts lately, so Im asking. What's your problem? Im not with the WTBS - I have family who are JW's. But I have been in court and I know the type of abusive statements you have made against JWs on this site if restated in court will certainly indicate you hate JWs - have an ax to grind and that will count against you. Judges go by attitude as well as evidence and if you show the same spite in court you have shown here then your credibility in court will be zero. So a bit of advice from someone who knows judges and courts - cut the malice.

KL Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 10:04 PM
NICE TRY
LEGAL DOE-DOE BIRD! If all you wanted was a report on the home page updating the court cases, then you would have sent a private email to Bill in this regard. You are not as sly as the WTBS wants you to be, and you have failed your mission. The only information printed on this site about cases is cut and paste articles from newspapers, not individuals exposing their case files for all to see. So please stop giving me YOUR amateur advice - any legal advice I need as well as the other victims will come from our REAL attorneys. Just because you sat in court makes you think you are qualified to give us advice? Good grief - I have seen countless hours of Law And Order, so I guess that makes me a District Attorney!!!!! Have you thought that perhaps your unprofessional wannabe advice may do just the thing you say you are say you are trying to prevent? Or perhaps that is your goal? FOR IF YOU WERE REALLY TRYING TO ASSIST US, HOW COULD YOU EVEN TAKE THE CHANCE ON SOMEONE MISREADING YOUR QUESTION AND ACTUALLY POSTING RELEVANT, DAMAGING INFO ABOUT THEIR CASE? My postings are not malice oriented, yours are. You have been exposed - NOW LEAVE!!!!!

MA Sunday, August 15, 2004
@ 10:35 PM
Curious
Regards my post on errant elders, do you see me as a Watchtower apologists or an exposer of them? It doesnt matter which, I am just curious about your point of view and was unclear by your comment :-)

Cheri Romero Monday, August 16, 2004
@ 2:42 AM
I noticed
If you dont mind me asking, who IS monitoring the guestbook now? I noticed that suddenly alot of the comments were being deleted for one reason or another. I thought it was odd because Bill usually doesnt do that. Anyway, who are you? ------------------------------------- -----------------------------At this time I prefer to remain anonymous. Silentlambs Editor

legal eagle Monday, August 16, 2004
@ 4:56 AM
KL - is English your first language????
Court transcripts have been published on this site as have details of judgements including names, details of allegations etc. Just what IS your problem with anyone asking? ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- Time for you and KL to please de personalize this posting back and forth. Silentlambs Editor

ilidio Tuesday, August 17, 2004
@ 4:10 PM

Cheri romero, I will not leave this forum. a few weeks ago we were being attacked by the new silentlambs editor and I thought it would be best to let things cool. I am a supporter of silentlambs regardless if they let me post or not, that my friend no one can change. There is a lot of nosense going on right now between a couple of people. If silentlabms editor lets me I will voice myself soon. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------- You are invited to voice your opinion and even disagree with any post or poster so long as it does not turn into a personal vendeta. Silentlambs

s.m. Tuesday, August 17, 2004
@ 6:23 PM
goodwork silentlambs!
It is so good to have found Silentlambs which has helped so many of us deal with the emotional and mental hell abuse has caused within the JW Organization!!!! Finally the healing has started! Thank You Silentlambs for showing real love to all of us! ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------Thank you for your kind words and welcome to our site. SL

jen Tuesday, August 17, 2004
@ 9:13 PM

Interestingly, I was doing some research. I hate to say this but I can see some of the viewpoints about the problem Not being a governing body or doctrinely problem, so much as I see it being an elder problem. Many, many articles that the gb has produced has certainly shown a sympathetic and heartfelt response to abuse victims. This would make sense if you look at the few who have had such an incredible support system from their own elder body and congregation. Perhaps, it is more that the elders as men are inept at dealing with people who have experienced such abuse?? Whatever it is, I will continue to pray for all of you.

lm Tuesday, August 17, 2004
@ 9:16 PM

New to ya'll. fyi your right kimberly there are spooks looking for division causers.

ilidio Wednesday, August 18, 2004
@ 11:43 AM
jen
Jen, do a bit more research and you will notice that the problem lies within the society and the elders are just acting upon the laws from WTBTS. For God sake jen have you not reviewed all the information (letters from the society to the body of elders)posted on this site? Who are you trying to fool??? yourself??? The problem of abuse goes much deeper than the abusers! WTBS has created a paradise for abusers! Till they change that the wolves will continue taking advantage of the sheep. You might not believe that, as a matter of fact I once felt like you. Was not till a member of my family was abused and matters taken to the elders with their answer being "tell nobody! It's in our hands now, Jehovah will take care of it. After 5 years of our first complain the judicial committee was finally put together. Would you like to know what the result was? the abuser was reproved silently. That was the end of being a JW for us. We wrote a letter to the society and the body of elders in our congregation as well as some embers of our congregation where we explained the entire ordeal and asked to be no part of it anymore, we were in fact ashamed of being recognized as a JW. The abuser is still there view as a good Christian. Like I said before the abuser is in the WTBTS paradise where more sheep will be abused. Not my sheep that I can assure you! Do you really think the problem lies with the elders??? Please stop the propaganda mate. We are not stupid around here.

JMT Wednesday, August 18, 2004
@ 4:04 PM
Decieve, Discredit, Destroy
My entire life as a JW (about 30 years) I was being groomed to be servant material. I didn't co operate very well and was never made one, but was privy to much confidential information for some reason. Maybe it was because they thought I'd come around eventually. After all, my Dad was a staunch Elder. A lot of the info came from him. I guess he thought it was safe to tell me of the sex abusers that he and many other elders have personally covered for. I don't remember the victims being protected even once. It was always suggested that JHVH would take care of it through his org. I knew what an lame excuse that was so I threatened to expose them, including my father. Since I was not going to play the "game" and become one of them they set out on a campaign to discredit and destroy me and any credibility I had, very similar to what politicians do who are trying to cover their butts. Little did I know that my father had been working on that eventuality for many years, just in case. It worked. My brother in law, who is a firefighter and sees reality clearer than most JWs, still refuses to believe that sexual abuse even happens in the org., even though it happened to his own wife, my sister! Their propaganda machine is very powerful. They are like yellow jackets and will swarm to kill anything that might crack the veneer of their deceitful org. I know, they've about killed me and will not stop until they think I'm dead. Guaranteed. So people, all I have to say is, if you know this evil is going on and do nothing or pretend you don't know, you are as guilty as the perpetrators. Bill and Sheila are doing an incredibly dangerous and important job. Support them all you can. JMT

NN Wednesday, August 18, 2004
@ 4:41 PM
Elder probelm
To me this "elder system" is one of the greatest wrongs - and a direct cause to the human disasters that are constantly taking place inside this organization - committed by the WT org. That they invest some men with almost divine powers and qualities. I guess it must be a very strong drug to get that kind of power that the elders have, not to mention the motivation they get from the fear of loosing it by acting in an oppositional way. So it is not surprising that they do not defend the abuse victims. But it is wrong to view the abuse inside the org. as an "elder problem", cause "the elder system" is run by the people who govern the organization, and it is a tool for them to rule their members, to bribe and threats has always been a very effective way of stay in power.

AK Thursday, August 19, 2004
@ 12:06 PM
Agreement with NN
To state that the 'elder system' is the problem is a truism in this matter of pedophile protection in the congregations. But the problem is deeper, don't you think? It goes to the heart of any 'authoritarian' organization, in which men have set themselves up as 'in charge'. There has never been an organization directed by men that did not fall to corruption in some areas or all. That was the beauty of Jesus' original arrangement with Christians, that they would fall under His headship. The idea that a Governing Body was established in the first century to direct Christians as a group instead of as individuals under Christ's headship has little basis in scripture. As usual the WTBTS has distorted and bent a single scriptural account (the meeting of the Jerusalem brothers to decide circumcision) to fit it's desire to hold men in their power. With power comes corruption, with absolute power comes absolute corruption! Paul did not report to any Jerusalem Council after being given the assignment from Christ to preach. If fact he did not go to Jerusalem for over 3 years after that event. His instructions came from a man in Damascus. And he was sent out by the Antioch congregation to do his work. It was then 14 years after his first visit that he returned to Jerusalem to settle the issue of circumcision. And that meeting was not of a 'few' choice men. The scriptures indicate that it was all the older men in Jerusalem, and that may have been many hundred, not just a dozen or so of the elite 'governing council'. The assertion that the idea of a GB is from the days of early Christianity gives immense control over the lives of the local elders, since they think that God has directed these matters from a central headquarters on earth. They are afraid to lose power, or favor with God, so they turn a blind eye to the reality while pursuing this fantasy. They have no choice if they wish to remain in control and power at the local level. I thank Jehovah that men and women, such as those that are working with and through SL, have the guts to stand up and say in essence, 'Our dedication was to God, and our conscience is directed by His word, not by men claiming divine authority'. Otherwise most of us would not even be aware of the depth of this problem. May the children be the winners as SL makes more and more aware of the problem, and aids us to protect the childen where we can do so!. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- Jeff I want to congratulate you on your well thought out post. It is this type of writing that is going to raise the quality of information for abuse survivors that visit this site. Three thumbs up!!!. SL Editor

NN Thursday, August 19, 2004
@ 1:10 PM
About
Well, perhaps I ought to explain that one inspiration to my posting, was the behavior of the "editor", which is in fact quite "elderly". Both the Eddie P story and this latest whim to - quite unnecessarily - comment on postings.

Thursday, August 19, 2004
@ 3:08 PM
No offense menat to AK or the
I think this site is alot more about abuse of children in the Jehovah's Witness community and the contention that the JW organization supports the abuser more than the one abused to the extent of covering up abuse and hiding it from authorities. In some cases going so far as to "shun" the victim for speaking out. In my mind it is irrelevent whether there is a "governing body" or whether there should be a "governing body" in the Jehovah's Witness organization. What is relevant is that this "governing body" is apparently engaging in activity which promotes a sanctuary for abusers. It has often been said in this guestbook that doctrinal arguments should be directed to other websites/forums and that this one is simply focusing on ending the "pedophile paradise" in the Jehovah's Witness community. I can't say that I agree with you AK/Jeff in your statement that we here at Silent Lambs are saying "Our dedication was to God, and our conscience is directed by His word, not by men claiming divine authority" as this to me is a non-issue. Please don't take this as a criticism of your post as it was in fact well worded and I understand your position but I think it is not the thrust here at Silent Lambs which is about "It's time to protect children. It's time to stop being a silent lamb". To me the doctrinal arguments about whether the Jehohvah's Witnesses should or should not have a governing body is not the issue. What is at issue is how this governing body deals with the issue of child abuse and how it directs it's organinization through the hierarchy on how to deal with child abuse. As far as I am concerned I personally have no problems with governing bodies in any organization. What I do have an issue with is the conduct and behavior of governing bodies especially where sexual crimes are concerned.

Jacob Thursday, August 19, 2004
@ 11:33 PM
to JMT
Im sure no JW denies that there are some pedophiles among them. But the unverfied 27,000 in the US would mean nearly 3 out of every 100 JWs in the US is a pedophile. With more than half of JW's being women and older children then that statistic is way out of proportion to the general population. Not bloody likely! Unlike most churches dont have youth camps or youth groups so pedophiles find very few opportunities to be with kids anyway. We are aware of the register and how it lists anyone accused of child molestation and even of having child pornography. All of these would have been reported to the police in most cases as their activities make them criminals. But not all of them have been or can be convicted. Sometimes victims clam up or there's not enough evidence to get a conviction. But they are stil on the register and not allowed to be alone with kids or go door to door alone. ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------This will be the last post you are allowed to put up that only creates controversy and ill feelings among survivors. In the past I have permitted your posts in order for survivors to have their say against the very system you defend. Its time we focus more on protecting the children/victims and letting them have their say. SL Editor

Cheri Romero Friday, August 20, 2004
@ 12:42 AM
Jacob go away
You make me sick! You dont belong here! You are setting such a bad example by even looking at this site let alone speaking on it. You know nothing of which you talk. Maybe you should have been molested and raped as a child so that you would understand what all 7,000 of these victims are talking about. Maybe you are a molester yourself and that is why you so staunchly remain here in spite of all of our outrage at your ridiculous posts. Please just go away.

L.L.B. Friday, August 20, 2004
@ 1:28 PM
Good idea....
Banning Jacob from this guest book. Virtually every time Jacob posts he lies. From his first post where he stated that the Courts do God's work (where we know that the Jehovah's Witness beliefs and teachings are that the world governments and it's Courts are ruled and controlled by Satan)to his latest one where he says that he is sure that no JW would deny that there are pedophile's amongst their group (where we know that many Jehovah's witnesses vehemently state the opposite. Some abuse victims here have had their own family shun them stating that they are liars because pedophile's don't exist in their group. In fact we have had several JW's posting in this guest book stating that there are no pedophile's in their group and we're all liars). Jacob has repeatedly proven that he is a liar or he does not truly know the beliefs of JWs. He could in fact be just some annoying imposter who get's his kicks and giggles from teasing and tormenting sexual abuse survivors. Either way he serves no productive purpose in this guest book and I, for one, am glad to see this disturbed individual finally banned from the guest book. Unfortunately there will always be another to take his place with the lies, propaganda and antagonistic remarks. Hopefully all those who visit here will still feel the warmth and support that so many of us have for your sufferings and your righteous cause. May God truly bless all of you dear Silent Lambs.

AK Friday, August 20, 2004
@ 2:56 PM
Further explanation
My comment was intended to set the stage for understanding HOW the power of the Governing Body of Jehovah's witnesses undermines otherwise intelligent 'elders' in their efforts to protect the flock. It is keynote to understanding WHY child molestation is tolerated, and even deviously turned into an attack on the innocent victims. Understanding the 'heart' of the beast goes a long way in seeing why it acts as it does. Many (as you can see by reading the WTS apologist's that post here) continue to defend the 'organization'. By showing the false roots of such, and the distortion that it creates in the Christian system as set out by the Master, the fantasy can be unveiled for what it is, and those who support it will perhaps begin to support Christian principles of conduct instead. That is a gain for our side, the side that stands in opposition to child-rape and any part of an organized group that would victimize again those who are it's victims. Some will never see the 'forest for the trees', will never be allowed to accept that there is such a thing going on. But if a bit of that fantasy castle crumbles through intellectual effort to show just what the organization is, then perhaps some that are ignorant today will take a closer look. That may save a child tomorrow. May God bless all that support the children against such atrocity. Jeff

His Word Friday, August 20, 2004
@ 5:06 PM
about Jacob's figures
I think they are probably about right... 3 out of 100, especially if you include the physical and mental abusers who are never reported. JW's don't need youth camps and youth groups to find and abuse children. The can attack most any JW child and believe they will never be reported because of the way congregations handle such cases. I actually heard a so-called "Brother"?? say that the congregations were full of young girls craving sex. He has 2 girls. I was at his house visiting them when he said it. I think Elders should be elderly!! like 68 to 88 or older. Doesn't the bible say something about gray headedness?

Unbiased observer Saturday, August 21, 2004
@ 1:23 AM
Why?
Why would a religion like the JW who even excommunicate adulterers want to protect pedophiles and cover up their crimes?

MA Saturday, August 21, 2004
@ 8:21 AM
To Jacob
I came from a congregation of about a hundred JWs and I was told first hand by the victims of 3 paedophiles in that congregation alone. Considering I was never an elder or MS I could only imagine the statistics where much higher. Thanks for reminding me personally how bad it really was and how glad I am to be away from that cesspit. Good on ya Ed for shutting him down he really was becoming an annoying little twerp

observer who has observed Saturday, August 21, 2004
@ 8:21 PM
To:Unbiased observer
Most people in the congregation are never excommunicated for adultery! I know of 2 cases that happened in my congregation and those two elders were only privately reproved (hell, they are still elders today). Most people in fact never knew what happened. As far as I am concerned you could be Jacob with some of your cunning propaganda. Please stop being so uneducated. Do we look stupid to you??

Juan C Saturday, August 21, 2004
@ 11:44 PM
My website is going to expose all the lies of WTBS.
Hi everyone! I have created a website that's going to expose the absolute truth about Watchtower's policy in child abuse and how they lie to their own members and the public on their handling of child abuse. My website address is at: ----------------------------- The reason why I'm doing this is because I am very disturbed at how Watchtower's policy has hurt children very severely and messed them up emotionally and mentally, and as well as this has caused self inflicted harm in a lot children due to the above that I mentioned. But Watchtower is very unique in a bad way by not telling their own members and the public their exact policy on how they handle an incident(s) on child abuse such as one of the things that's in their policy is that their must BE/HAVE BEEN two witnesses present in order for the victim to be believed. Also Watchtower will protect their image at all costs regardless of who's getting hurt. And my website is going to reveal all of Watchtower's unscrupulous tactics that it uses to protect their image at all costs regardless of who's hurt, and I feel that everyone should know all of Watchtowers dirty laundry including Jehovahs Witnesses, because even a big majority of them don't know the whole side of Watchtower. Also, I would like to add that when I learned about the severity of child abuse in the Jehovahs Witness religion and the despicable and unscrupulous cover-up tactics used by Watchtower, I had one of the biggest shocks of my life because I had never heard of or seen anything like it in my life, and I'm not a Jehovas Witness. ------------------------------------------------------------ --------- Hi Juan it has been our policy to not list any other sites url. When you finish your site let us know and we may consider making an exception, welcome to our site. SL Editor

legal eagle Sunday, August 22, 2004
@ 5:01 PM
to Juan C
It is not good for WT image or for the image of any group to cover up for pedophiles. Pedophilia is a crime and the WT publications Ive read all state that a complaint against a person by only one child must be reported to the police as it is the Law.

MA Sunday, August 22, 2004
@ 6:47 PM
Some responsibility??????
Your post has been deleted again due to your irrelevant comments. SL Editor

Marie C Sunday, August 22, 2004
@ 8:27 PM
take the blinders off
To Jacob and all those still in support of the Org. We can blame the elders or the congregation.(E.g. it is like blaming the bus boy and the waiter for the lousy food and service when really it is the restaurants fault for not keeping on top of their employees thus no good service.) Lets remember that yes anyone who abuses is to blame. But when you claim to be a united family of God and you let abuse happen well lets be nice and just call it pitiful. Jacob I am not just talking about pedophile from elders trust me women do it to. (We can not put a gender on this abuse issue. It is like saying gays are responsible for Aids when we know it can stem from a lot of different angles.) Elders are supposed to be like parents and thus should know better and I think that is why people are appalled. And as far as the society having such abusers marked and doesnt let them go out with children is Bull ****. You are not there to be able to tell us that the society is watching them all taking them by the hand and saying no no you can not do that. Come on we are smarter then that. The Catholics watch their priests just like society and they are so called marked and watched but sexual abuse is still happening. Otherwise ones would not come forth and say enough is enough! And Jacob even if it is 3% , 3% is still to many but you are basing it on the pedophile being male what about the women who sexualy abuse.? And what about the rest forms of abuse that I know happens right amongst me here where I live. Slander, verbal and physical abuse going on in the congregations where is the society? The Society told the elders of a congregation I was in to tell my mom to read the bible so she can receive gods love so she will stop being abusive. A woman in the truth for over 27 years who I for thirteen have been trying to get the elders to help me from being banged against the wall and beaten with a vacuum pie, tennis racket, and I can list even more. My mom made Jane Crawford (Movie mommy dearest) look like an Angel next to what my mom did to us kids. None of three kids me included do not wish to have anything to do with here. I left that abuse infested puppeteers cult of a religion two years now. She is still in the org and still is slandering me. I am going to sue her for defamation of character if she keeps it up. I am treated like I have leprosy because I walked away. I am blessed to be out and free and I will be here for anyone who needs my support and Bravo to silent lambs for helping ones who are left like me feeling there is no where to turn.

Jacob Monday, August 23, 2004
@ 12:54 AM
To Marie C
I know what you are saying and Im so sorry you have such a bad mother. But she is the exception, not the rule as most JW kids had good parents like mine. My heart goes out to you. You say we must blame the org. when elders do not support children. Problem is as with your case they often dont know who to believe and so they tend to believe adults. When it comes to abuse they still should have reported your complaints to welfare authorities who in turn would have had you removed from the home. Physical abuse of children involves mandatory reporting just as much as sexual abuse. It would have been ideal for you to see a doctor yourself.

marie c's friend Monday, August 23, 2004
@ 11:55 AM
jacob
Jacob, most mothers in the Jehovahs witnesses are in fact like marie cs mother. How do I know that? Well, she was from my congregation. In our congregation there were plenty of them. For your information marie c was taken away from her mother on 3 different occasions because of abuse. A special pioneer and circuit overseer even made marie cs mother take counsel from her book study conductor otherwise he (special pionner/overseer) would not take the daughter back to her. Guess what? She was never reported to the police. She was told she needed to read the bible more (funny enough that over 30 years of reading the bible has not helped her being a better person). On top of that there were immense bruises and witnesses. Was anything ever done? NO, why?? COVER UP COVER UP; WE GOT TO SHOW OUR RELIGION IS CLEAN. Please do shut up! You ought to be ashamed of yourself to come here all the time to defend that so called religion. I have known marie c for 22 years. I am one of the people that have brought this abusive woman to the elders. So the excuse that they tend to believe the adults is just pure bull shit (sorry but I can not find a better way to put it clear). Sorry but that just doesnt cut it anymore. I have a feeling that you Jacob, are Terry A

Cheri Romero Monday, August 23, 2004
@ 4:19 PM
To Silent Lambs Editor
I thought you were not going to post any more of Jacob's messages!! I am so damned sick of hearing him make excuses for the Org. Jacob, my mother was so extremely abusive that I too was taken away from her and when I exposed her and my step-father, I was disfellowshipped (at 14 years old) for "bringing reproach on the name of Jehovah". So many are like that so quit with your f**** bullshit mister. ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- I have deleted several of his posts that have no value whatsoever to this site. My previous comment was that he would not be able to post any more writings that are merely designed to elicit controversy. I agree with you that his usefulness to survivors is over. SL Editor

Cheri Romero Monday, August 23, 2004
@ 4:23 PM
To Marie C
Hello my friend. I too had a mother that made Mommy Dearest look like The Brady Bunch mom. I know exactly what you are talking about. Of course I also had a step- father who was a child molester and child rapist but is still a member (ministerial servant, hell probably an elder now) in good standing. He molested his own daughter, his 18 month old granddaughter and me when I was 14. Hang in there. You have friends out here.

kimberly b Monday, August 23, 2004
@ 8:46 PM
regarding jacob
Why don't we all treat Jacob like he is disfellowshipped. Let's not give any more response to His/Her demonic induced thinking! The best way to get rid of this troll is to totally ignore this person. Or better yet just simply delete all of their demonic statements. Let's DISFELLOWSHIP this person! The more we keep responding the more he feels empowered!! Let's take the power away and IGNORE!!! ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- FYI Jacob has over stayed his welcome he will be deleted from now on. SL Editor

Debbie from New Zealand Tuesday, August 24, 2004
@ 11:48 PM
Great Site
Hi all, I just came across this site by fluke. I've never looked at websites that even mention Witnesses before because they're all 'apostate' or so I have been led to believe all my life. I am no longer a Witness but I'm not disfellowshipped though I'm sure I should be. Never mind :) I didn't realize that such dignified respectful sites existed. I think its absolutely great you're all brave enough to come forward and expose some of the abuse within the Organization. I am not a victim of abuse, though I remember about 10 years ago an Elder in our congregation sexually abused his daughter and stepdaughter. Best of luck with getting helpful information out and I hope any lawsuits go your way, Debbie

Bernadette M Wednesday, August 25, 2004
@ 8:08 PM
JW Organization
I was a member of the Organization for a few years, and at every opportunity, the Elders would come to my home with the most trivial complaints from certain members ie; I once said a swear word, or I still craved worldly celebrations like Christmas. Eventually I got so sick of it(like they were all perfect) and I met a man quite by chance. Suddenly I was Mary Magdelene. I left, then they decided to disfellowship me. I saw a programme on tv highlighting the abuse.....am I glad to be free from all that hypocritical bullshit!!!!!!

Juan C. Wednesday, August 25, 2004
@ 8:29 PM
Question for Legal Eagle from Juan C.
Unfortunately the WT has covered up child molestation that has occurred within the organization because of their policy on handling and reporting child molestation to the authorities, such as the police/law enforcement, and one of the things that's in their policy is for the congregation members and elders to not call the police, instead, their judiciary committee handles the incident, but what's very bad about this as I mentioned before is that the congregation/WT judiciary committee are not trained to handle incidents of child molestation and worst of all they are not police/law enforcement authorities. Also the WT never tells the media and the public the truth about their policy, instead they lie through their teeth and one example is in WT website and their publications. One last thing, I heard when WT publications write about on what members should do when their child is molested within the organization, they advise them on what to do, but they make no mention at all about calling the police, but, however, you said that on the WT publications that you have read all state that a complaint against a person by only one child must be reported to the police as it is the law. But since this information is new to me, can you tell me the dates of the WT publications issues that say that. It would be greatly appreciated

Juan C. Thursday, August 26, 2004
@ 7:17 PM
Question for Jacob
I noticed in one of your posts that you tend to defend the WT organization, but I think you don't know the whole side of Watchtower's unscrupulous tactics that it uses to cover up child abuse being due to their policy as I have mentioned in previous posts. But I've got a question for you, do you know exactly what Watchtower's policy is in handling and reporting child abuse? And have you seen NBC's and BBC'S documenteries on this matter and notice that Watchtower has declined to be interviewed in these shows where they are given the chance to speak up for themselves and to clarify what's not true about the charges made against them on thier tactics of lying and covering up child abuse within the organization? Also can you explain to us why most of the time Watchtower declines to be intervied by news media outlets on this issue.

legal eagle Thursday, August 26, 2004
@ 11:34 PM
Juan C
According to my JW relatives the only cases they know of of child abuse, the parents went to the police first. Child abuse is a crime and Jws are instructed to "render unto Caesar" when it comes to mandatory reporting. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------ I am putting up your post but be adviced that I find no value to your posting to this site. SL Editor

R Friday, August 27, 2004
@ 9:23 AM
To legal eagle
Rather than just relying on your relatives second hand, here's my story, first hand: When I was 8, my mother walked in to find my father abusing me. They went to the elders. No one went to the police. My father (minsterial servant) was disfellowshipped for 6 months. The elders did not speak to me directly. When I was 11, I told my mother of the sexual abuse continuing, who told the elders and my father confessed. No one went to the police. My father wasn't even disfellowshipped, as the elders felt he was "contrite". I was not spoken to at all by the elders. When I was 13, and the abuse was STILL continuing (at this point I was concerned about pregnancy!), I finally told a "worldly" teacher who contacted the police. My mother was furious that I had not told her. My father was furious at being arrested. And the elders were furious with me for telling someone outside of the organization. There are four responsible parties here: my father, for the actual abuse, my mother, for putting up with the abuse and not taking it past the elders, the elders for continuing to overlook the abuse, and the WT HQ itself for being fully aware of the abuse as well (they were aware of his disfellowshipping especially as a MS), and not ensuring that (a) their elders were equipped to handle abuse situations (by equipped I mean going to the police, ensuring the safety of the child) and (b) a standard policy of involving the authorities which to me is common sense. It doesn't matter what religious convictions you hold - if a child is being harmed sexually, physically, mentally, they need to be protected.

L.L.B. Friday, August 27, 2004
@ 11:47 AM
Just a note...
You know "R" there are thousands more cases just like yours. It's sad that you and others have to spend time dredging up the painful past to people like legal eagle who is either a Watch Tower BS specialist or one of the many Jehovah's Witness pedophiles who is doing his best to keep their pedophile paradise alive and well by denying what thousands of us have already lived and know to be true. As for Juan, I know that you are new to this guest book but we have already informed Jacob (and some others) that their posts will be deleted (because they are clearly here to antagonize and taunt abuse survivors and lie about the state of the JW organization). By you inviting them to respond to your questions in this guest book does not seem practical to me. Perhaps you can simply post your email address for them and together you can spar through email and outside of this guest book.....that would be my personal preference...perhaps others (or the SL editor) can concur. I personally have no issue with your posts Juan as they ring true and are factual but I (and others) have had enough of Jacob's and legal eagle's pedophilic BS ------------------------------------------------------------ --------------- I concur with your sentiments about legal eagle and Jacob. I have deleted several of their posts that were merely written to stir up controversy with survivors. We have also had some person try and spam this site. FYI, a reporter came to this site and read through the guest book and was pleased to find well articulated posts of survivors. So a major story is in the making stayed tuned for details. SL Editor

mp Friday, August 27, 2004
@ 6:35 PM
re According to my JW relatives the only cases they know of of child abuse, the parents went to the police first.
Of course, these are the only cases they know of. If they had gone to the elders first, it would have been covered up and no one would have known except for the victim and the abuser.

Monday, August 30, 2004
@ 11:13 AM

apostate site full of lies ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- This post is an example of many I delete. SL Editor

dml Monday, August 30, 2004
@ 4:31 PM

I was sexually abused many years ago. And because of the J W's my abuser never got into any trouble. I needed another witness. You all know about this. When I became an adult it seemed that I was always thinking about it and feeling sorry for myself. In a sense, I was letting my abuser take precious years from me. So one day I decided, my thoughts were letting him do that to me every single day. The time that he abused me he took on his own. My thoughts let him take more time from me. And I decided I wasn't going to give him another second. That was a hard defeat, but I managed to do this over the years. I did forgive him. This is the only way to get over this and to get on with your lives. As hard as it is to forgive someone you hate so much. But hate is cancerous. You do not do this for your abuser. You do this for yourself. Really it is the only way to go on. I also found talking about it helped me let go. And that is why this site is so neat. I no longer go to any meetings. Haven't in years. I am a huge supporter of the Silent Lambs. It has been a long time since I visited this site. I am not sure if the Silent Lambs are doing anything right now or not. I would love this information. Please let me know. dml ------------------------------------------------------------ -----------Welcome back Bill is very busy and active with the avalanche of cases coming forth. SL Editor

Cheri Romero Monday, August 30, 2004
@ 4:56 PM
Apostate site?
Hey dude, are you really that stupid? Look in your dictionary under the word apostate and see what the definition is okay? Is your head really buried so far in the sand that you believe that this many thousands of people would be telling the same lie? Get a grip!!! Look into your heart. You will see that there is so much pain and anguish here that it could not possibly be lies. And then when you come back? We will accept your apology. For Silent Lambs editor: Were there no posts between August 27th and August 30th? Or are you just too inundated with work here? Just curious. Keep up the good work. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------We have had some posts that were clearly the work of disrupters that were just deleted. After I decided to delete all of Jacob's posts and warned Legal Eagle it's been quiet. SL Editor

jd Tuesday, August 31, 2004
@ 10:51 AM

I came across an interesting jw site that pretty much puts pedophilia in the org on the same level as being a gay agenda ???????????? In response to the person who said that according to her family members... boy aren't you fortunate. This is bullshit that jws are getting inaccurate information and will be dfed for trying to get the truth. I might be wrong but how many Catholics do you know that are being excommunicated for reading their NEWSPAPERS OR WATCHING THE TV ?????Because that is the only way you can find out what the hell is going on. Hell you'll get a nice reproval for telling them you visited this site. JUST because you know that something aint right. By the way, yes, Russell was big into pyraidology, look at the kh Thy Kingdom Come Studies in the Scripture. The problem is basically this: The brothers in ny will tell you what you need to know, when you need to know it and if you know for a fact that something they have said is off, you better keep it to yourself or your grieving the holy spirit. funny I thought covering up sins grieved the holy spirit?

Lightshade Tuesday, August 31, 2004
@ 6:18 PM
am really confused
I have just read the leters written by Bill Bowen..Did he ever get any replies, and would he kindly post them. because i have also written letters to the Governing body and never got a reply. My problem is, we here in the United states are privileged in that we have the internet we can come here and air our views and read peoples expereinces. But there are millions of witnesses in Africa and the developing countries who do not have access to this information. Apart from this policy the JWs of letting people get away with crimes because there is no 2 witnesses, Most Africans suffer also from a tradional practises and a cultural background that is similarly oppressive and dangerous. What i do not understand as well is why is the JWs so soft on this issue when they can be tough on other issues..forexample.i know people who were disfellowshiped for sending their kids to boarding school, or elders who were demoted because their sons had married (legally) outside the church. or elders who were demoted because they were rumored to have done something. Although they was never proof, they were demoted on the basis that their reputation was now not clean and therefore they would not be of exemplary standing. You would think on a serious issue like child abuse and molesation, one would not be only dsfellowshiped but surrendered to the authorities until he clears his name. In Africa and the Developed world where there is rampant AIDS, child abuse and molestation not only harms the victim psychologically, but can leave one with uncurable AIDS. Does the organization have a remedy such as to compell a brother to take a blood test, to assertain whether he has caused the victim an uncurable desease. I read elsewhere that bill bowen has been since disfellowshipped. has he received any letter or notification stating the reason why they have taken that decision. Is anybody here still a Witness and how has this all affected your faith and beliefs. For those who have left the organization..where do they go. i ask this because i think that after being a witness for many years, its hard to go to a lesser church especially when you know that some of the teachings there are wrong. So what is the real alternative? I have been a witness all my life..but i have lived my life on my own accord and terms and was never too zealous or fanatical. there are a lot of things that i have always questioned about how our organization works. and i have been called a rebel. But i think people resented me because i was well educated and wellspoken. I still believe though that most of the teachings of the JWs are correct. I have a lot to write here but i will stop here for now.. ----------------------------------- You can write Bill directly at info@silentlambs.org. Welcome to the board, SL Editor

jd Tuesday, August 31, 2004
@ 7:59 PM
sorrrrry
To editor: thanx for posting my messege. what I meant to say re russell was PYRAMIDOLOGY did i get the spelling right? Sorry for my rant. .........[I edited your term according to USA spelling] SL Editor I am a big fan of Sarah Mclachlan. She has consistently voiced her concern about the civil rights of women. she wrote the following song some years back and lately, every time i think of sl, i think of this song and thought i would share the lyrics with you. "good enough" hey your glass is empty its a hell of a long way home why don't you let me take you it's no good to go alone i never would have opened up but you seemed so real to me after all the bullshit i've heard it's refreshing not to see that i don't have to pretend she doesn't expect it from me don't tell i haven't been good to you don't tell me i have never been there for you just tell me why nothing is good enough hey little girl would you like some candy your mama said that it's ok the door is open come on outside no i can't come out today it's not the wind that cracked your shoulder and threw you to the ground who's there that makes you so afraid, you're shaken to the bone and i don't understand you deserve so much more than this so don't tell me why he's never been good to you don't tell me why he's never been there for you i'll tell you why is simply not good enough so just let me try and i will be good to you just let me try and i will be there for you i'll show you why you're so much more than good enough gotta go crying

Manfred Lipowski Thursday, September 2, 2004
@ 3:56 AM
;o)
I just surfed in and found your site, I really enjoyed the visit and hope to come back soon. Thank you for your dedicated effort. Blessings of continuous growth! Cordially, Manfred Lipowski ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- Welcome to the board. SL

ilidio Thursday, September 2, 2004
@ 12:39 PM
lightshade
lightshade, Sooner or later most of us are confronted with leaving the organization. And funny enough when I left one elder asked me where can you go? You might recall a similar situation on John 6:67-68 when Jesus said to the 12 you do not want to go also, do you? In response Simon Peter answered Lord, WHOM shall we go away to? The key word here is WHOM (referring to a person) not WHERE (referring to a church, group or organization) You will soon realize that one does not have to be part of a church or group in order to be a Christian. My wife was a JW all her life (30 years) and very much active, I was there for 15 years and very much involved. We came out about 2 years ago over a matter of abuse, we wrote a letter to the society and requested to be out as we did not want any involvement in it. Contrary to your beliefs most of the teachings of the JWs are not correct! You see it like that because that is the way you were taught. Jesus did not teach, as the organization does, that people should come to JWs org for slavation. So again to answer your question where can we go to? You dont have to go anywhere or you can go anywhere, other churches are not lesser than the JW, you might think so but in time you will realize that such is not the truth. BE ASSURED THAT THERE IS LIFE OUTSIDE THE JWS.

Lightshade Thursday, September 2, 2004
@ 2:14 PM
ILIDIO
Where do you and your wife go now that you left? I do not agree with everything that the organization does, for example how they deal with abuse. I do not believe that the Elders in the Congregation have the right to hold judicial inquiries in cases where a crime has been committed. They are not trained to investigate crimes and I think the government should make it illegal to have a parallel legal system for the JWs. I will certainly not sit in no JW judicial court or whatever they call it. If I haven't committed a crime, God will be the judge of my action. if I have committed a crime. let the one I have wronged take me to the police or court. Thats my position with regards to that. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- Your post has been edited due to the irrelevancy of doctrine. You can find many other sites that deal with theological debates of JWs. SL Editor

Cheri Romero Thursday, September 2, 2004
@ 6:37 PM
Silent Lambs
It seems as though there are so few posts up these last couple of weeks. Are they dwindling off so much or are they being edited? I am sad to see so many leave and to see so few people posting now. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------- Hi Cheri, to answer your question it's a combination of things. All trash posts are being deleted, Watchtower apologists are being edited for relevancy or deleted, posts from survivors have sole priority. As I have stated previously if a post leads to dialogue even constructive debate to stop child abuse inside Jehovahs Witnesses, or if a Silentlamb wants to post his/her testimonial it will be put up automatically. We have received positive feedback from some persons who think the quality of posts is increased. SL Editor

legal eagle Thursday, September 2, 2004
@ 9:22 PM
the Meza case
Seems the JW elders did report the abuse. The father had already been charged by police weeks before he killed his family. What I cant figure is why was he still free in the community. Had police kept him jail he would not have been able to harm anyone!

Cheri Romero Friday, September 3, 2004
@ 4:41 AM
Legal Eagle
Are you assuming that the elders reported the abuse in the Meza family or do you know that for certain because nowhere in the article do I remember reading that the elders are the ones who reported it. Legal Eagle I am noticing that when you post, you always say something good and supportive in regards to the elders and then you try to divert our attention by asking some ridiculous question that has an obviously easy answer. I just dont think you are really on the side of silentlambs at all but really here to make the elders look good. Is this at all true?

davie Sunday, September 5, 2004
@ 7:44 AM
Denia Meza
Jehovah's Witnesses claim to have direction from the "Faithful and Discreet slave". Why was poor Denia Meza not offered protection by her elders? Were the local witnesses too busy getting their "time" in for the month? That they couldn't arrange for a adult sister to be with her at home? She needed protection.Its so sad. This case stinks to high heaven. Both her religion and her government failed her.

Cheri Romero Sunday, September 5, 2004
@ 5:18 PM
Same bullshit, Different congregation
I am so extremely livid by this Meza case and the atrocity committed here by the "Elders" AND the Watchtower. How dare they turn their backs on this case and on the funeral expenses!!! How dare they pretend that they have no responsibility in this! I have come to the conclusion that this religion is of the Devil and has no connection to God whatsoever. How could it possibly be approved by Jehovah? He must be crying in heaven to see how badly they are "bringing reproach on his good name". I am just sick and making myself sicker the more I see of this same type of shit story. Good god, someone of authority needs to step in and save people from this evil religion.

legal eagle Monday, September 6, 2004
@ 2:22 AM
to Cheri
Your post has been deleted due to remarks only meant to fan the flames of pointless controversy.

LittleBird Monday, September 6, 2004
@ 2:23 PM
Thank you thank you thank you!
What a breath of fresh air your site is! Thank you for showing the hypocrisy of this cult. My sister and I were raised in this horrific cult in San Mateo California and were abused for years, both physically and sexually. When we went to the elders to ask for help they turned it around and blamed it on us. I was a teenager at the time and it shaped my spirituality for many years. The overseer of the congregation actually told me that I "deserved everything I got because I looked like a prostitute!" After many years of counseling and deprogramming I now see them for what they are- (as was so eloquently summed up) Satan's Witnesses. They are a very dangerous cult! Thank you for showing them for what they really are and for the caring and support you provide!

DJB Monday, September 6, 2004
@ 5:21 PM
Cult?
Yes I think so !!! If they didn't behave like one no one would accuse them of being a cult. What makes a cult a cult is when they behave like one!!!! The Control...the fact one can't critize...All must think the same...Cut off from the outside community by rules of such...Punishment for not thinking like the group... Demonizing all the non members...Arrogantly think better that everyone a non member...Ministers appointed by God/has a special direct line to God...Are we talking about Jehovah's Witnesses?????? I know members who believe that this a cult but still remain????DJB

Lisa N Tuesday, September 7, 2004
@ 10:56 PM
Outraged by Injustice
I am a former Jehovah's Witness, raised in the organization from the age of 3. I was subjected to sexual and physical abuse from the age of 4 until I ran away from home at the age of 16. This abuse came from my stepfather and my mother's "foster father", who was an elder in the congregation. I reported the abuse but was told that I was just like "Dinah" and I should be repentant for my behavior. I too was told not to report it to the authorities, but I did and was subsequently labeled "bad association". I left the organization for good in 1993, and my parents pretty much disowned me. I think that if I had been treated fairly and the perpetrators properly punished, I may not have had all of the problems that I have faced in my adulthood. Keep up the good work.

QB Wednesday, September 8, 2004
@ 1:02 AM
Denia: Investigation?
I agree, something went terribly wrong in Denia's case as she DID report the abuse. If you go here: http://www.victoria-climbie- inquiry.org.uk/finreport/vicstory.htm you will see what an indepth investigation into a child abuse case went wrong REALLY LOOKS LIKE (warning this is very sad and troubling and may be triggering for some, Victoria was horribly abused and died) and we need something JUST LIKE THIS for dead JW children. Children are dead in a number of states and France and Canada and Gawd knows where else. While it is fresh in people's minds is when we can mobilize public support for an investigation. If my luck holds, I will be vigil in support of the S.C. in California, and there are plans for a support vigil in Arizona. If you can, please light a candle or stand in front of your local KH for just ten minutes, you will be glad you did and your actions may heighten awareness and just might save a life sometime somewhere. And yes, the site is definitely more friendly and appealing, thanks for listening all. ------------------------------- Thank you for your comments and welcome to the site. SL Editor

P Thursday, September 9, 2004
@ 5:32 AM
abused kids
Sometimes kids clam up when abuse is reported, so the charges are then dropped, Perhaps that's what happened with Dina Meza. While social workers and police doctors are trained to handle kids with TLC, in the confusion kids do sometimes change their stories. Also they dont always do what's best for kids.I have a relative who works in the domestic violence service and she told me of one case where an abused child was sent home to her abusive father who was himself released on bail, because it was Xmas and they did not want to spoil the family clelebrations by putting her in foster care or a safe house.

ilidio Friday, September 10, 2004
@ 8:40 AM
lightshade
Lightshade, you asked me where I go now since I left the Jehovahs Witnesses. For a period of 6 months after leaving I did not go anywhere, then I joined a golf club, and ever since I have played faithfully every Sunday. That is my new church and I surely enjoy it!! As for the elders in the congregation they are little puppets controlled by the strings (organization). I surely hope that you will find a place where you can worship even if it turns to be a golf club, tennis club or something else.

Richard H Friday, September 10, 2004
@ 5:46 PM
My child was raped { age 6 }
I always told my little girl that as long as she told the truth that the law would protect her, Now that she has been raped by her uncle and she try's to tell them what happened to her ,they tell her that it is her fault She is only 6 years old , I am at my rope's end ,what am I to do. Law inforcement has taken my children .Please, can some one help me! Richard H I live in South Carolina

ilidio Saturday, September 11, 2004
@ 10:19 AM
richard
They tell its her fault? And who are they? Elders or police? What reasons would child enforcement have to take the child away from you?

L.L.B. Saturday, September 11, 2004
@ 10:37 AM
Confused by Richard H.
I observe two obvious points in your post Richard H.: You appear distresed and angry. As a parent, I empathize with your distres of your family's pain and seperation. I am somewhat confused by your post because the way it reads "I always told my little girl that as long as she told the truth that the law would protect her, Now that she has been raped by her uncle and she try's to tell them what happened to her ,they tell her that it is her fault She is only 6 years old..." it sounds as though you are mad at "the law" because your daughter told "them" (the law)and "they" (the law) tell her it's her fault. I have seroius doubts that "the law" in today's civilized societies would tell a 6 year old girl (or any female) that it's her fault for being raped. I have, however, heard countless stories from victims of sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnes community complain of the young victims being blamed by the church elders for the abuse they suffered and, in fact, I experienced this first hand. Is it possible that when you refer to "they" and "them" you really mean someone other than "the law"? Is it possible that you are referring to your little girl being blamed by some elders in the Jehovah's Witness Organization? Is it possible that when your daughter confided in you that you referred/subjected her to the religious elders inquiries before going to "the law"? I recognize that you are distressed and it is often difficult to communicte when one is in emotional distress but I wonder if you could elaborate a little and clarify some of your points?

Juan C. Saturday, September 11, 2004
@ 7:20 PM
Yerington, NV congregation
Recently I heard about child molestation cases ocurring within the Yerington,NV congregation, and I think it was about 5 as far as I know. But I wonder if the majority of people in the community of Yerington know about this? I ask this because this is a small town that I used to go to very often and it has a hometown type of culture, and I think that if the people in this town knows or knew about this, they would probably have a big shock to learn about unreported child molestation going on in their community and they would have a big outrage over this. I learned about this from some Las Vegas, NV tv stations, but I wonder if the Reno, NV tv stations are aware of this as well as the Yerington newspaper which is called Mason Valley News?

Bryan M Sunday, September 12, 2004
@ 12:17 AM
to have faith or not to have faith
King Solomon is said to have been famous for "his wisdom". But, how many silentlamb members would agree with this, that he was truly wise ? The answear would be have to be a resounding, "NO"!!!! Why would I say this, a man who himself was a victim of sexual, physical, verbal, mental and spirtitual abuse? The reason is this Solomon threatened the life of a child, he had a soilder hold a child and prepare to hack the child in half. If an Elder proposed this there would be no calming YOU people down on a matter like this. Lawsuits would be proposed, disparaging comments would be made and sides would be taken. But does this truly fix the problem? The world knows what it has to do but the world has no true power to truly remedy the problem. I refer to Illnesses, starvation, war, racism, and ofcourse sexual abuse which is commited against probably billions of persons not just thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses. My grandmother, mother, father, and aunt have all told me they were physically and sexually abused by close relatives of differing faiths. They have to live with these painful memories, and decide wether to have faith in God's promises or not, or choose faith in man's promises to solve their anguish. Personally, I leave vengeance to Jehovah, whose right it is to recompence. Did my family fail me? YES!!!Did society fail me? YES!!! Did God fail me ? YES!!! No one stepped in and stopped the abuse it stopped by chance When my grandmother caught her second husband in the act. Did he go to jail? NO!!! Did I recieve a Cash settlement? NO!!! When I read King David's family life story I realized that I must wait on God and not man to fix the damages done to me and countless others. Ofcourse, children should be protected all life shoul be protected but it doesn't bother us when 3,ooo die each day in Sudan by the hand of Arab muslims againt Black muslims. It doesn't bother us when a 1,000,000 plus Catholic Rwandans die at the hands of their brothers. Or that we profit from child labor by having our clothes,tools, and other goods made abroad by poor nations. How about child prostitution YOU shortsighted and stiffnecked people where is the JUSTICE and REPAYMENT for their abuse. So go ahead and fight your fruitless and faithless fight against Jehovah's Anoited Ones, Or become Faithful and do not lean upon YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING, LOOK TO GOD AND HIS PEOPLE FOR HELP AND STOP DWELLING ON YOUR OWN PROBLEMS PEOPLE ALL OVER THIS GLOBE HAVE VERY SERIOUS PROBLEMS TOO! PRAY AND CONSOLE STOP FIGHTING AND BACKBITING BE PEACEABLE AND ALL OF THIS ONE DAY WILL TROUBLE YOU NO MORE. From a person who truly understands. ------------------------------- This post is being put up unedited for learning purposes. SL Editor

AK Sunday, September 12, 2004
@ 10:09 PM
To Brian M
Brian - I must say that your reasoning is at least circular and irregular, and at worst - perverted. Let's take a few points of your foolish retoric - #1 - Solomon was making a point, not preparing to slaughter a child unmercifully as you suggest. Futher, he did so openly, not behind closed doors. And the reality of the situation was that all in the kingdom, indeed the earth, heard of his great wisdom. #2 - No one, and least of all Silent lambs, has ever suggested that there are not other wicked men in other religions doing the same things that have occured in the Watchtower religion. SL has, in fact, affiliated itself with other organizations that are equally committed to stopping child- rape within other religions as well. That said - what you suggest - burying our heads in the sand - is not an acceptable alternative is it? 3- As to the sundry problems worldwide that you refer - there are a great number of persons concerned about those problems and working to try and solve them. Would you truly expect that an organization that is dedicated to stopping the practice of child-rape among Jehovah's witnesses would have within it's creed addressing with a broad brush-stroke all the matters that you mention? How foolish that thinking is? Would it be, by your estimatation, a proper thing then, that since we have become aware of this issue within the ranks of the organization that claims exclusive relationship with Jehovah, that we should just 'wait on Jehovah'. ? Perhaps that was the attitude of those in the parable given by Jesus of the good samaritan, those who just ignored the plight of the wounded man at the side of the road? How could God bless that? 4- Let me ask you, OH self-righteous Brian, what are YOU doing to help the problems in Sudan? Rwanda? How are you helping in the fight against worldwide prostitution rings? No indeed - you do not wish to wait on God! You only wish to defend in vain those who are trying to protect a worldwide publishing corporation, while trampling on the rights and virtues of the innocent victims. How can you lay and sleep at night knowing that you somehow believe that your God approves of these vicious and deviant vulgarities? We are talking about the rape of children, you fool!!! INCEST-RAPE-SODOMY-AND EVERY OTHER SORT OF VILE SEXUAL ENCOUNTER THAT YOU CAN DREAM UP - Pardon me SL, for loosing my cool. That is not my style as you know. But those who lie with hypocrites, become the next generation of hypocrites. And this sort of perverted thinking - that Jehovah does not want caring and loving and concerned persons to come to the aid of little innocent childen, is unbelievable! Dear Brian - think about your children or your grandchildren being the victims - or your little sister. Then it becomes real! Time to grow up and become a Christian and practice Christianity!!! May God forgive you for failing to see with eyes that imitate the Master Christ and His love. Jeff

L.L.B. Monday, September 13, 2004
@ 4:08 PM
Where is the love...
&in your post Brian? I sense a lot of anger and hostility in your words. Sadly, I sense the most hostility and prejudice towards the victims of pedophilia even though you claim to be one yourself. I question your honesty. I could list many reasons for this (like Jeff) but there is no need for repetition. I will mention one obvious point though: You claim child prostitution as a far more significant concern than pedophilia. In fact you wonder how we could be concerned with pedophilia as an issue when such a thing as child prostitution exists. In reality though arent the two similar in the way minors are exploited? In fact, most would find pedophilia to be more serious. The fact that you cannot recognize this causes me to question your personality,character and honesty. Also, I am alarmed at your arrogant tone and demeanor especially where you tell us to find God and Gods people. Most of the victims who have posted at Silent Lambs guest book do have God in their lives especially since most of us have been removed from the hypocrisy and pedophilia which exists in the Jehovahs Witness organization. Most victims here have been glad and thankful for the efforts of Silent Lambs. Large worldly events and catastrophes which occur out in the open like in Rwanda and Sudan will always find widespread attention but acts like pedophilia are committed behind closed doors on helpless children who are coerced to keep it a secret. A pedophiles best weapon is to be able to make their victim feel like they cannot have recourse. If it were not for Silent Lambs and Bills efforts, many victims would not have the benefit of knowing that they are not alone. Most victims here are supportive of each other in spite of the fact that we are constantly bombarded by malicious individuals apparently from the Jehovahs Witness cult who come here in seemingly unending attacks posting: propaganda, insults, insensitive and disparaging remarks, and worse. Your logic of not wasting time and effort pursuing corrective action on any crime short of Genocide is something that I am sure many criminals would endorse but I think it is an idea which most good people would not agree with. It is true that there are many significant issues in the world but I, for one, am going to continue my volunteer work with: the food bank for the homeless and poor; and, the support group to locate missing and exploited children even though you would probably disapprove of my efforts. As well, I question your personal motivations for your harsh and stinging criticism of victims of pedophilia who are pursuing legal actions in cases involving the Jehovah's Witnesses and it's Organization. I am going to pray for you as well and I hope you find your way to God (and perhaps therapy).

ilidio Monday, September 13, 2004
@ 7:25 PM
To brian
I could not believe my eyes when I saw your post, Brian. I am sure that you heard the information as a form of a talk from a platform at the kingdom hall and you said to yourself what a great piece to post at the silent lambs forum. That is of course a great piece of information for uneducated people (window washers, truck drivers, street sweepers who 3 nights a week become counselors of the jehovahs org) What a discussing piece of information to post. You are basically telling abused people that they should shut up and keep quiet as other people (your stories of Rwanda, prostitution, child labour and etc&) are having it much worst. Makes me wonder if you too are an abuser who likes to have people quiet so as to have your thing. Like an unreasonable woman you also have spoken. You unreasonable one, you claim to be made in Gods image??? It is people like you that make me believe that your ancestors were apes. That you in fact are a product of evolution NOT creation. LEAVE IT TO JEHOVAH you say, Oh yes, havent we heard that before, You hypocrite, you go as far as saying that the society has failed you, that God has failed you. Your faithful God has failed you, and you expect us to wait for him to set matters straight??? FIGHT YOUR FRUITLESS AND FAITHLESS FIGHT AGAINTS JEHOVAHS ANOINT ONES. Who the hell are these?? The ones who claim to go to heaven?? Sorry to disappoint you but all these guys do not contribute a single thing to the society nor are they asked to. The org is run by 10 people not by the anointed, please wake up and smell coffee. Than you go on to sign as a person who truly understands. What is that you understand?? Window washing, truck driving, street sweeping??? That seems to be the only thing you understand here. Hopefully SL editor will allow this piece to be posted for learning purposes also.

Ron S. Monday, September 13, 2004
@ 11:48 PM
Exjw friends and support group
It is Silentlambs policy not to post links to any other site. SL Eitor

pcs Tuesday, September 14, 2004
@ 3:03 PM
Bryan M's Sunday comment at 12:17 a.m.
Bryan, You must have just come into the JW religion. I say this because maybe you are saying what is expected of you. Just who are you trying to impress? The stuff you've recited is soo fake -- soo not even real and as phony as a 2$ bill. You know enough to only make you dangerous so shut up and quit playing with grown up things. You sound so brainwashed indeed, and the pity is that I don't even think you believe what you are saying. Oh! I've got it, you were so proud of giving this talk on the first school and the applause you received made you take it to this forum so early on a Sunday morning. QUESTION: Were you really abused? Just wondering. I don't think you should get back on this website until you have grown up because you'll only get slammed and busted up. When you finish your Gerber baby food and move on to adult food (gotten a real taste of life), then you can talk. So until then, bye-bye do-do bird.

MR Tuesday, September 14, 2004
@ 8:23 PM
interesting
I have been sitting here reading many of the posts. I am interested in the case in California. Will you run part of the story please. As I am in NC I have not heard anything concerning this. ------------------------------------------------------------ ----Please write to Bill with your request he no longer monitors the guest book. SL Editor

DJB Wednesday, September 15, 2004
@ 10:10 AM
Brian...Scriptures miss applied!!!!
You need to deal with your anger and what has happened to you. Letting them get away with it your anger will build. Throwing mud at us will not help you. You must deal with what has caused you all that suffering...... To apply the Scriptures all the scriptures must be considered together. By doing this I can see the bible does not support your stand and you have miss applied the scriptures about King Solmon.... What you say and suggest does not apply to Silent Lambs because you do not for REAL know all the good that has been done here.... The name calling just hides the fact you do not have an arguement. Think about it who is being stiffnecked? Your bitterness and anger shows... How can you expect us to deal with the problems in Africa when we need help at home with one issue. The web site has one mandate. *Support Victims of Sexual Abuse* and expose the problem among JW's. We are cleaning up our own backyards as it were. Many have quite effectively dealt with the offenders with the police. This is scriptural it tell us to "Remove the wicked man from among ourselves and quit touching the unclean thing and I will take you in" Is the organization following this scriptural counsel? This web site proves that they have not over and over and over again!!!! If you are a victim as you say you need help. This web site is doing just fine and helping many to adjust their thinking...............DJB

RJ Thursday, September 16, 2004
@ 10:41 AM
Say hi to Billy Boy for me
I miss his smug little smile, when will I be able to see him again? -------------------------------------- Good question write to him, SL Editor

Cheri Romero Thursday, September 16, 2004
@ 8:19 PM
Brian
You make me sick mister!! Most of what needed to be said to you, was said by illidio and ak and some others but there is one more thing that I wanted to say to you. Think on this oh uneducated one--"Wait on Jehovah"? For him to take care of the situation? How the hell do you know that Silent lambs isnt the way that Jehovah IS taking care of the situation? And I believe, with all my heart, that it IS the way he is taking care of it. Go back to the Borg and be happy!!

AK Friday, September 17, 2004
@ 2:26 PM
To Cheri
Go Cheri! There's the old Cheri, I have not seen you on SL for awhile... way to go. Keep up the good fight... Jeff

ilidio Friday, September 17, 2004
@ 8:56 PM
To: SL editor
SL, please allow people to speak a bit more even on issues that are not 100% about abuse. When bill let us do it we had a very good forum going on but lately this site has been dead! Was not untill you let that stupid message from Brien that things got a bit more interesting. Please give us a longer leash. Thanks, ilidio ----------------------------------------------- You got it!

L.L.B. Saturday, September 18, 2004
@ 2:02 PM
Your a funny guy Ilidio

Bryan M Sunday, September 19, 2004
@ 7:38 PM
Righteous Anger -- God's Love
I would like to thank Silentlambs for posting my honest views and leaving them unedited. I believe the anger some noted in my comments was apparently harsh to some if not to most readers but my anger is certainly not from my past but the outright disrespect many show to God's anoited ones. Even the angels do not speak in such a manner as all of YOU have done. It does not concern me what YOU say about me or wether I am telling the truth God knows and that is enough. Matters I have brought out here at this website are not matters I would even deem worthy to bring up at the kingdom hall. As far as what I consider to be the MOST important issues facing the world today has nothing to do with Sudan, Rwanda and the rest of the list of problems I mentioned. Bottom line Jesus said First seek the Kingdom and Jehovah's righteousness and do not be anxious ;if that is de-evolving from humanity's so-called wisdom then I guess some will say my ancestors are apes. But Jehovah will judge between me and that person's words. Self-righteous -- perhaps some feel that way about what I have said But remember Joseph, Moses, Jesus were all mocked but they also were all in the right. I beleive many JW's are aware of child abuse as are many persons all around the world. Many Benjamites were slaughtered for there allowance of digusting sexual sins and in God's due time it was handled but the Jews as a whole did not leave their faith and continued in God's love but had they left where could they go and find a purer form of faith in the world? And especially a Faith that Jehovah God would approve? As far as God failing me did not God have the power to stop what happened to me? Of course He did. But he did not stop it he did not allow Moses or Jesus to die as babes but many others did die. That is scriptual. You do not need to worship God if YOU think he is not a righteous God but I will continue because I believe he has not forsaken me and many others. He did not sin against me a wicked man sinned against me and his family sinned against him but he chose to sin and I have chosen not to. Nor has my mother,father, or Grandmother. And silentlambs was not the reason for their change of thinking. In fact my parents are not JW's and do not follow any faith. Conversely, though, they have destroyed their lives with drugs and alcohol which in turn has caused my brothers and sisters to suffer in many different ways apart from sexual abuse. I believe many who read this know I am not a garbage man, window washer or uneducated person yet that is exactly how the first century Jews slandered Jesus' true followers. So ALL true hearted peopled seek the kingdom and God's righteousness(not your own) and YOU will recieve and remain in God's love.

Jay Monday, September 20, 2004
@ 6:36 AM
Brian
What a load of typical JW rubbish. What are you doing here on this "apostate" website anyway?. Why dont you keep it for the poor suckers you bore to death on the doors. No- one is interested in hearing it....this site is for victims of abuse carried out and covered up by members of your cult. This isn't a sounding board for your idiot scriptural quotes and typical JW phraseology.... Get a life

AK Monday, September 20, 2004
@ 7:26 AM
To Brian
Once again your ignorant ravings prove your lack of 'true understanding'. This site is not designed to attack your so- called 'annointed' ones of God! It is designed to protect the children of Jehovah's witnesses from hidden sexual predators in the midst of their congregations. You, even though you proclaim yourself to be righteous, are committing 'sins' worthy of disfellowshippment just by visiting this site. According to your 'annointed' leadership in Brooklyn you are engaging in active 'apostasy'. You doubt the viciousness of that religious body? Then just post your name in full and the congregation that you attend. For the simple 'sin' of excercizing freedom of speech you will be quickly silenced. Just like those who speak up for the children being raped in your midst, you to will get to be outside your precious spiritual paradise, and your dear annointed leaders will not show one bit of compassion for you! That harsh position will be taken, not because you have really sinned, but because this is not Jehovah's single organization on earth as you think it is. It is a publishing empire with need of loyal magazine 'placers' like you. The 'annointed' will eliminate you as quickly as an unchewed peanut gets discharged! You need to educate yourself. Start by reading what is really being said here and in other places by those who have really experienced the hatred that is substituted for 'love' in the organization. I have been a witness for 30 years, I know from where I speak. That is why I left to serve God as his word tells us to, not the Watchtower magazine. Wake up and smell the ink - you are but a paperboy for the society. Your free-moral agency has been long ago taken away. Further - I think you are lying about being abused at all. Those who have been abused and the matter covered up, as it usually is by the WTBTS, have anger, not toward those who have felt that sort of pain, but toward the organization that turned an evil eye to such suffering. Go on back and bury your head in the sand, like all good witnesses, or understand the message here and wake up!! Jeff

L.L.B. Monday, September 20, 2004
@ 8:50 AM
Dear Brian,
Well Brian I am not going to get into a mud slinging match with you. I have already said I am going to pray for you. I have no doubt that you will take a verbal lashing from others in any event. I will mention one point however. In spite of your best efforts and repeated postings, I will never agree with your philosophy of not pursuing corrective action on sexual crimes. I am sure all pediphiles would endorse your viewpoint but I think it is an idea which MOST GOOD PEOPLE WOULD NOT AGREE WITH. I also feel confident in saying that I believe most of the Silent Lambs would disagree with you. I believe that you are wasting your time trying to convince people here of your very narrow point. I am sure that you and the Jehovah's Witness organization are terrified of the lawsuits and the dirty secrets being revealed to the Judiciary but it is long overdue and the children MUST be protected. As an addendum to this, I noticed after the candlelight vigils two weeks ago the Silent Lambs received attention from . I suspect there were many Jehovah's Witnesses visiting this website and gaining the courage and strenght to come forward. I also noticed that at this same time "Richard H" posted a bizarre remark stating that he came forward with his child and the authorities didn't believe the child and the authorities removed his children from him. Clearly that post was designed to frighten off JW's who were visiting this site and contemplating breaking the silence. At the same time you came here, Brian, with your comments designed to put the Silent Lambs down telling us (and other victims who would visit the guestbook) that essentially child sexual abuse happens to everyone and we should be ashamed of bringing lawsuits. Well mister, it doesn't happen to everyone, it is NOT normal and many are going for Justice. All the intimidation in the world from the likes of you and other Jehovah's Witnesses will not stop this perverted practice from being dealt with in a Court of Law! I personally find it revolting that some would resort to this sick behavior simply to intimidate those who are seeking a remedy from the proper authorites.

candid Monday, September 20, 2004
@ 2:51 PM
the site has changed
why are these posts arguing on stupid stuff..i think mole is right this place has changed..I wish it was like the old days when abuse was the topic...mole wrote on another website the changes here and its true..to Bill, lets get back what made this site awesome and true to the cause..thank you, simply candid ------------------------------------------------------ FYI Bill and I in his kitchen table discussed the merits of puting up Brians initial post. I was againist it, Bill was for it, if it could serve some useful purpose. Since Bill left it up to me I decided to use it as a teaching post. The lesson is over! Brian is just one other example of the convoluted schitzophrenic thinking processes of a disturbed person who will defend the JW policy against common sense and rational logic. Brian and any other apologists need to answer only one question and that is, What should be done when child abuse has occurred inside a congregation? Bill had the only right answer and he has spent a fortune and years of personal sacrifice to get the Watchtower to take notice and change their flawed policy. Brian will no longer be allowed to post. On the issue of disgruntled posters all I can tell you is this, my personal goal is to have a guest book that has quality material. This site is visited by the Watchtowers legal department, Jehovahs Witnesses, the media and interested persons. My criteria of what constitutes a quality post may be different than yours and we can agree to disagree. If you want to argue and debate in a flame war format there are several forums where you can do that and I encourage you to vent your difference of opinion there or write to Bill. SL Editor

ilidio Monday, September 20, 2004
@ 7:28 PM
To: SL
SL editor, you hit the nail in the head! I could not agree with you more. However, from time to time a post like Brien should be allowed for the sake of showing the mentality of people such as Brien ----------------------------------------------- Agreed, and I am sure many more JWs will post ala Jacob, Margaret, Brian and Legal Eagle style.

Bryan McAlister Monday, September 20, 2004
@ 8:07 PM
to Bill and associate
Thank you for your candor and opportunity to speak on my behalf as an abused person. I understand your hesitation for posting my comments and see it would not be upbuilding to many to hear what I believe in or think. I have not read anything that seemed to be apostate in nature on your website. Probably because some members in my family are born-again christians and vent many similar comments based in my opinion on hyped-up, over emotional, cliche information from the leaders of that faith (I was a born- again for over 5 years). I would like to correct your co-worker, Bill, I am not mad as they say nor are my words meant to disrespect are belittle abused persons. If I ever hear persons talking about abused persons in a disrespectful way I am first to scold such persons. I am sure many like your site because it appears to aim much hatred towards God's organization but even when I was a born-again I corrected my brethren if they spoke in ignorance or extreme hatred. Do you? This is YOUR organization are you really reconciling abused ones with their pain, I hope so. Even with the person who abused me I do not speak in such a disrepectful and hateful way. Perhaps many who join your group need some maturing to do. And hopfully their hatred which it appears to be extreme will cool off a bit and be replaced with God's love. I never heard of your website or group through the organization. I stumbled across it when I was looking at a old internet news article. So I took a look for myself to see what it had to say (that was a year ago). I became angered by some comments made against God's people but felt it was not the right time to say anything. When some time had passed I reflected on what I believed in and how I percieved yours and others comments and believed this was the right time to say something for myself rather than having someone say I am unable to think or speak on my behalf. I have given my last name and I have no fear of men in or outside the organization. I speak to you and all as a free man. I was baptized in 91', I have pioneered, I have severed at Bethel for 2.5 years and also served as a ministerial servant. Unfortunately I have fallen to sins' temptations and I have left my first love. But, You, Bill have given me the very nudge to return to my faith and hopefully make a full spiritual recovery. And I would like to thank-you ----------------------------------- May you likewise find the Way...... Sincerely, Bryan McAlister ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------- Go in peace Bryan this will be your last post. SL Editor

candid Tuesday, September 21, 2004
@ 12:05 AM
thanks
Thank you for answering me. It was not long ago when we had so many with much postive things to say. It shocked me knowing that mole was on this site for several years to protest has he did and the amount of response he recieved both postive and negative about this site. If you look back in the prior guestbook you will find me and so many of us before the strange fighting and useless information came in. I always looked forward to seeing what others posted such as mole in the past. We had xelders, ministerial servants on this board who spoke out. Now only the few same people repeatedly posting nonsense. Thanks for trying to make things right. Simply Candid ------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------- In speaking with Bill yesterday he feels that every aspect of Silentlambs has evolveded and improved with maturity. That is the dynamic evolution of SL as people come and go. To wish that SL return in likeness to its inception is unrealistic everyone is at a different place as they change and grow. SL Editor

sm Tuesday, September 21, 2004
@ 7:50 PM
appalling!
Nothing has changed within the JW WTBS organization. Decades ago they would automatically disfellowship anyone who had a mental disorder (manic-depression, schizophrenia, etc). Yet they do not treat sexual molesters that way. Now they allow such molesters to abuse handicapped or otherwise compromised people. They only disfellowship molesters when the public is notified and the stink comes out into the open. And to think they allow such molesters back into their fellowship only within months! A single girl who has sex with her boyfriend, or a young man whose name comes out in the newspaper for drunk driving can be expelled from church fellowship for a year or even longer. Why do they twist Bible principals for sexual predatory pedophiles? WHY? It is appalling they do this when they claim they are the only ones who have "The Truth" and God's only acceptance in this sea of human beings.

sm Tuesday, September 21, 2004
@ 8:15 PM
the cycle
We must break the abuse cycle. Not only do young males who are abused turn out to grow up and often times, do the same. But there are many young girls abused and then they turn around and abuse other younger girls. This happens in the JW organization. It is the secret of homosexuality never discussed. Elders and parents will say, "Oh, well they weren't really a Witness." Fact: Did they go out in the door-to-door ministry, did they speak at doors?" If the answer is Yes, then they were a Witness! That is what Witnesses do. Many children are abused by elder's sons. Nothing is done because many elders are very good at protecting their filthy bastards. The filthy bastards are good at putting on their "Oh I am so spiritual" act, going out ministering, giving talks, comments and such moving prayers... Give a hand everyone to the organization who teaches people of all ages: act one way when everyone is watching to convince them of your spirituality, and act totally different when you are alone with an innocent child and there are no witnesses to see what you are doing.

QB Wednesday, September 22, 2004
@ 1:11 AM
'Stupid messages'
The stupid messages occurring on here are not the problem. I think it is good and I agree with allowing some dissenting and even fanciful views to be posted. The problem is, the people that insist on trying to engage the 'stupid messagers' with rhetoric and loooong posts that really are not informative, they do nothing to educate or encourage or upbuild, they basically just fill space. That is not the fault of the 'stupid message' nor silentlambs editor, if the only thing some people can do is 'feed the trolls'. Would it not be better to leave the 'stupid messages' alone and save one's time and energy while on the Web, for abuse survivors and their supporters and advocates, people like me for instance? It's just my 1/2 cents worth...

L.L.B. Wednesday, September 22, 2004
@ 6:36 PM
Interesting
So what you propose QB is to let this guestbook be a sounding board for JW propogandists and pedophile's who wish to bash the victims here at Silent Lambs without any of us victims addressing them. Sorry but this victim does not find that to be "upbuilding".

QB Wednesday, September 22, 2004
@ 7:45 PM

<<>> I proposed nothing. Please reread my post CORRECTLY and do not misquote me or misinterpret me. I made an observation. This is my last comment on this and thanks to sl editor for hearing me out, it is much appreciated.

John Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 2:49 AM
What about the other one's.
In the pass 8yrs that i have come back from Europe. I have only heard of one comment on Jehovah Witnesses on TV it was on Dateline. The woman was upset because she was in an abusive relationship and he was a Jehovah Witnesses, she put all the blame on all the Witnesses instead of blaming her husand,which show how stupid people can be. her husand is paying the price by going to jail and not being able to come any where near her. that's the only one i have ever heard of or ever read about. Now the Subject on child what the hell is worng with you people saying that they approve, condone, and encourage accused, confessed, and convicted child molesters to call door to door on unknowing potential victims.. What about the 12,Christian preacher who were wanted for molesting little boys, and the Chruch send him out of the country. so They woundn't be send to jail.. where is that story.. or what about the Catholic Chruch, that was hiding drugs in the basement's, or the children they molesting while in the Chruch's care. where is that story?... Sadly this is happening all over the world. we need to stop blaming just the Jehovah Witnessess. child molesters are very where in ever Religion.. you need to stop persecuting them... Luke 6:37 "Stop judging others, and you will not be judged, Stop critizing others, or it will all com back on you. if you will fall just as bad.

ilidio Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 6:07 AM
To: QB
QB, When stupid messages are posted in here they need an answer for sure, otherwise many stupid questions will go unanswered. Like Brian McAlisters last post where he claims to have pioneer served in Bethel but unfortunately fell into sins but Bill has given him the nudge to return the ORG to make full recovery. If you read between the lines Bryan is basically saying: If you are abused just forgive them and go back. Which by the way is fine if a person has the guts to do it. Now, when we answer a post like this and it might be too long QB can choose not to read and move on, however he does not have the right to criticize us for doing that as long as SL editor has allowed it. QB this is just my 5 cents worth&&.QB, as for giving your last name it does not give any validity, as far as I am concerned I could say that my name is Ilidio smith, or Ilidio Williams , or Ilidio Macbeth. DOD YOU GET MY POINT???

L.L.B. Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 7:48 AM
QB
Firstly I would like to apologize for the sarcasm in my post where I made fun of your use of the JW invented word "upbuild". It was unecessary for me to do that to make my point. This may have caused you to over-react. In any event, the following was your proposal: "Would it not be better to leave the 'stupid messages' alone and save one's time and energy while on the Web, for abuse survivors and their supporters and advocates, people like me for instance?" I have copied and pasted it from your post so there is no chance of misquoting you. My position on this is the same: This site should not be a sounding board for Jehovah's Witness Propoganda, WTBTS misinformation, or pediphiles bashing victims who frequent the SL guestbook. If we are going to allow them to post then we should expect victims responding. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------There lies the dilema and judgement call on my part to allow certain posts and delete or edit those that serve no utility. SL Editor

Andy, H Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 12:03 PM
To John
In terms of child abuse we are not just blaming Jehovah's Witnesses. We have known for decades that other religions have this problem. The fact of the matter is that when I associated and studied with Jehovah's Witnesses over a decade ago elders were quick to condemn other religions when child abusers were revealed in their ranks and used this as a shining example as to what set Jehovah's Witnesses above the rest. We now know that this is merely a facade and that for years, quite possibly decades, they have actively covered up cases of abuse, silenced victims, thwarted police enquiries and have put other children at risk as a consequence. Those elders, and others in positions of authority, who have knowingly participated in this process should be utterly ashamed of themselves. I just wonder what those elders who preached their misinformed wisdom to me back then are thinking now. Would they be prepared to eat humble pie or would they still be calling the kettle black ?

Hosni Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 12:53 PM
Modesty
Before I was convinced that Bill did not have any capacity for the utterance of any meaningful sort in him, which had been evidenced by his feeblest attempts at justification of his cause through his mindless rants and selective editing. He has, however, given me the smallest reasons for supposing he can string together words with some coherence and allow for opposing argument. In fact, I must now compliment Bill in that he does appear to be able to think on a level suggesting matriculation from grade school, a notable achievement for him and his fledgling cause. What is, however, always apparent in his work is his bias and the dust of which his object of worship stands, the same being himself. Even as he claims to be supportive of abuse victims, the evidence is to the contrary, as he turns his back on, and the hearts of others from, our Creator.

AK Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 2:01 PM
To John
John: What you say is true. That is, that there are child molesters and rapist in all religious organizations. Still, what is your point? Should Catholics or others aware of the child molestation problems within the Catholic Church just bury their heads in the sand, and do nothing to get this very serious issue taken care of? What is presented here on these pages is well documented. Many very good and decent people have been excommunicated wrongly from the organization, while child rapists are walking about freely within the organization, and they are being given the religious freedom to go door-to-door, even entering perhaps the homes of innocent children that could be victimized by them! No one has stated (that I have seen) that this is intended by the organization! Only that the issue has been avoided, perhaps hidden, underreported. And that more victims will surely be the result of this action on the part of a religious body that tolerates such, and refuses to change it's policies. And where is your compassion for the victims that have had their lives ruined by an incompassionate religious body? Most, if not all of these victims were JW's! They thought they had the truth (of course they didn't). They thought that God blessed this organization only (of course he doesn't). They shaped their entire lives about the organization, only to be DF'd or DA'd for standing up for what is clearly right! Tell us, Mr Self-righteous, if u can, what could be more right than standing up in behalf of defenseless children against rapists??? Just because you (MR Important) have no personal knowledge of this does not mean it is not happening! This site is not about judging (although you seen to be doing that in your comments), it is about defending those who are too young, or too innocent or too blinded by the philosophies of the WTBTS to defend themselves against the most heinous of cowards - those who would quietly rape a child behind closed doors, then go out and preach love and God to the territory!!! If you like living in the dark, and if u like the idea that your children or others that you know and love could be getting raped by a 200 pound elder in the middle of the night, and that nothing will be done to him for such actions if he denies it, then put on your blindfold, cinch up your necktie, look toward Brooklyn and chant your Holy Hymms of Ignorance. In the meantime, leave those of us who love children, (as did Christ, by the way) to get this dirty little secret out in the open before other lives are ruined by it's secrecy!! Hope you place a lot of literature for your service report to God!! Jeff

ilidio Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 8:51 PM
To: john
John, child molesters happened to be in all religions and groups of people. If you were to tell me that there are more child molesters in the catholic church then the Jehovahs witnesses I will agree with you 100%. If it is a bigger organization it will certainly have more abusers, no question about it. At the age of 10, I was sent to a Seminary in Fatima (Portugal) where I studied to become a catholic priest, during my years there I never heard nor encounterd any form of abuse!! But apparently that existed in some congregations. I changed religions after I met who later became my wife and I can tell you for a fact that the abuse in my congregation was horrendous. That was in fact the reason why my wife and I decided to leave the org. After 5 years of battling the issue even to the point of getting circuit overseers involved and matters being covered up, I could not just in good faith remain a member. The issue here is not that silentlambs should also post accounts of child molestation for other churches. This site was designed to help witnesses who had been molested (SL editor will correct me if I am mistaken). We know for a fact that the Catholic Church (as an example) has paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to compensate victims of abuse. Now when it comes to the ORG they wont even accept that the problem exists. You suggested a scripture (Luke 6:37) that we should stop judging others. In my opinion, we need to judge, criticize, we need to persecute all the molesters, because if we dont they will be free to continue their sickness. Isnt that what they do (paradise of molestors) within the Jehovahs Org? Someone had to say enough is enough!! Bill did just that!!! What about the scripture (I let you look for it since you are so educated on the bible) that says. AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH????

Thursday, September 23, 2004
@ 10:41 PM
It saeems like eveyday we have someone like...
John complaining in our guestbook about us taking a stand against child sexual abusers in the Jehovah's Witness cult "child molesters are every where in every Religion.. you need to stop persecuting them... Luke 6:37 "Stop judging others, and you will not be judged, Stop critizing others, or it will all come back on you. if you will fall just as bad." I mean what kind of sick BS is this child molestors are everywhere and we should stop persecuting them? As long as you sick pedophiles are out there I hope you get busted and any effort on Bills part to curtail these child sexual abusers activities (and cover ups of activities) surely is blessed by the God himself !!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------John has had his say just like the rest of JW apologists. His posts will no longer be allowed, may you go in peace. SL Editor

Cheri Romero Friday, September 24, 2004
@ 12:43 PM
Replacements?
Wow!! We now have hosni and john to replace margaret, legal eagle, jacob and the rest. Funny how a couple of them disappear and a couple more pop right up. Hosni, you are a blithering idiot it sounds like to me and Bill has more heart and integrity in his pinky than you do in your entire being. John, Re-educate yourself hun, you desperately need to. You two almost make me laugh. Almost!

Chei Romero Friday, September 24, 2004
@ 12:47 PM
To Silent Lambs Editor
I think that Hosni should be close on the heels of John and Brian dont you? I dont think we should allow him/her to slam Bill more than once on this site. He/she too has had his/her say dont you agree?

KL Friday, September 24, 2004
@ 4:44 PM
What the heck is John talking about?
This is a site for abuse at the hands of a JW, and not anything else. There are plenty of sites that are about Catholic or Mormon abuses, so he needs to go visit those before spouting his stupidity on our forum. What a clown! Try SNAP, jerk! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------- The Johns don't give up do they? SL Editor

KL Friday, September 24, 2004
@ 4:56 PM
True Colors
When I first filed my lawsuit, the Elders were to afraid to come to me, so I went to them. I told them that I was not an apostate and they did not need to fear me and they in turn told me that it would not affect my standing in the congregation or how THEY viewed my efforts in that regard. It is amazing how easily these people lie. It has now been almost 6 months since I have been to one meeting and they have not called, came by, or made any attempt to even ask my wife what is going on with me, and she is at the meetings all the time. So much for shepherding the flock. What a bunch of hypocrites. They are more interested in bringing more robots into the fold than taking care of ones they already control. Oh wait, that's right, they don't control ME. I do. And they just hate that, don't they? HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!

Tom Saturday, September 25, 2004
@ 4:39 AM
SL Editor
I see child molestors case every day of my life.. I work for C.P.S. Child Protective Services. I have seen and have heard of Things that can make any man sick to their chest and for the one who said. (I mean what kind of sick BS is this child molestors are everywhere and we should stop persecuting them?) I didn't mean to say that what I meant was YOU NEED TO STOP PERSECUTING JUST THE JEHOVAH WITNESSES YOU ARE MAKING IT SOUND LIKE THEy ARE THE ONLY ONE'S. That's what I meant. I know what it sounded like and am sorry, that was a Big mistake on my part I Apologize. That's what I get for typing too fast. I help put people like this in jail and let eveyone in the state know where they work and Live. Its posted online and also posted in the front yard of their homes warning parents that this person is a child molester . If you dont want me to post here any more then I'll go but dont make it sound like youre the only one who wants to stop the child molesters. Am doing something about it, that's my Job,That's what I do! I have 4 kids of my own and I would like to make this world safer for them and every other Kid out there. The only reason I came to your site was becuse I came across Silent Lambs March ON Watchtower.. I can understand why you did it But by not Marching on Christian and on the Catholic Chruch then you are persecuting JW's.I have posted on the other sites. and they didn't call me name's. then ever more loving, and they didn't call me a jerk! ----------------------------Tom, I have thought about my response to your post and before I answer you I would like for you to answer these questions. 1. How specifically did you come upon which specific SL march? 2. What is your motivation for coming to this site and what is your intention in your posts? 3. What is your official title at CPS and what are your specific duties there? 4. How much do you know about the abuse issue inside Jehovahs Witnesses? SL Editor

jen Saturday, September 25, 2004
@ 9:02 AM
aaaaargh
To the Jws posting here. From one to another. We have been having some interesting articles about children, abuse and apostasy. One in August sent me into a fit of anger and depression. Specifically speaking about child abuse it brought up the worshippers of Molech. It spoke about how Jehovah feels about child abuse and likened it to the worshippers of Molech. Funny, the first person I heard that from was Bill. Interestingly, I saw something interesting. When I read the scripture speaking about what was to happen to the Israelites who fell to worshipping Molech it also showed the gravity of those who turned their face from the wrongdoing and allowed it to continue. I also find it intereting that the bible shows the seriousness of lying to cover up sin. From the spies in Israel to David and then Ananias and Saphira. Doing so is lying to the holy spirit. Funny that all these people on this site are doomed to destruction in Armageddon for trying to uncover wrongdoing, but those that are CONTINUING to cover their tracks are the faithful and discreet slave who oddly enough are beginning to remind me of another group of people in Jesus day. To everyone here: My husband and I rented the Passion of the Christ. For the first time ever, my heart broke into a thousand pieces a thousand times over. To ANYONE who comes here and dares question the motives of Bill and Cheri and Ilidio and Jeff and everyone else who has had the courage to come forward about a very serious issue... Read Jesus words about the lost sheep, then read his words to Peter about feeding his sheep. Which one of you people would dare leave the comfort of your congregation and the safety net of the org, to stand by an abuse victim, that you KNOW? WHICH ONE? IF your friend came up to you and said that his daughter had been molested by an elder in the congregation and they told him it would be better to stay quiet, what would you actually do? When the next Wednesday, the elder is ONLY deleted, what would you do? When 2 years later and your friend has made 0 meetings and his daughter has committed suicide or has left the org and all her jw friends have deserted her, where are you? When you are in field service and someone brings up Brother so and so who is no longer going to meetings and is apostate, what would you do? Well, that's easy. The organization is right and your friend is wrong. End of story. These are people that since you don't know them, it is so easy to question their motives, to deride and judge them and treat them as if they are dirt beneath your feet. Well, here is my "prediction" Right now the election is really taking precedence. After though, things die down, the press gets bored, hurricanes leave their wake... Watch your backs. One of these days the AP is going to do a spread on the Watchtower cases and the people in the congregations will be left holding the bag looking inside and saying, "Where did this come from?" Because after all.... They only tell us what we need to know.

L.L.B. Saturday, September 25, 2004
@ 4:10 PM
Re: Tom/John
I will make this very brief since the SL editor has graciously offered to reply to your post. In short I find your behaviour and comments to be highly atypical of someone who works for Child Protective Services (as you claim). If you had come here for educational purposes you would have learned the focus of this site from the home page. It's almost as if you neglected to read it rather choosing to jump to the guestbook to criticize the victims and their concerns and ask for the Jehovah's Witness Organization to somehow be exempt from the scrutiny which many religious oders are coming under in light of sexual abuse incidents and cover-ups. Yes I find your behavior highly atypical of a Children's Aid advocate indeed.

ilidio Saturday, September 25, 2004
@ 9:33 PM
To: tom
Tom, the excuse that you made a mistake because you type too fast is just a bunch of BULL. Always remember that you can not type or speak a single word without first having a thought. Now to the real issue, CHILD MOLESTORS, according to your statement we should not persecute them, right?? What action do you take at C.P.S. when you find a molester? I am very curious to know! If a molester ends up being a JW do they get special treatment??

QB Saturday, September 25, 2004
@ 10:15 PM
Most people know
That the issue taken to the 'public' courts concerning JW's is NOT the abuse, how much of it or how often. Most people know now, that it involves how the VICTIMS are treated. NO Mormon or Catholic has been evicted from their church for reporting a molester or reporting on the molestation problems. Catholics and Mormons do not send untreated undiagnosed molesters TO PEOPLE'S FRONT DOORS. Daily. And although it's true that they may be recting to bad publicity, lawsuits, and falling donations, the facts are that the mainline churchs are working to clean up their congregations and help the victims find closure and justice. In contrast, Watchtower---after all the bad press and lawsuits-- STILL ARE accepting known rapists and molesters INTO their ranks and putting their adherents in harm's way. People that take the time to educate themselves from the Silentlambs webpage--or even just a google search-- quickly become aware of this.

Juan C. Sunday, September 26, 2004
@ 2:26 PM
To QB
I would like to say that you are right on how people take the time to educate themselves on the issue of child abuse and child molestation in the Jehovahs Witness Religon on Silentlambs website or by doing a Google search. Like in my case, about two years ago I saw NBC's Dateline episode that covered this issue and saw how Watchtower told victims of child abuse to not go to police and would threaten them with dissfellowshipping if they did. Also I saw that Watchtower declined to be interviewed on this issue. So later when I had free time, I was thinking about this episode on Dateline and did a Google search by typing either jehovas witness abuse or jehovas witness child abuse,I can't remember which one, but anyways I got Silentlabs as a first hit and found alot of information that led me to look more deeply into this issue and started to learn on how and why Watchtower covers up child abuse and child molestation, and ever since I have been learning something new everday about Watchtower covering up child abuse and child molestation.

NB Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 4:59 AM
are the crowd here all disfellowshipped?
for sure, i kno thw purpose of this site. and that is to ruin the Jehova's Witnesses. now, please do not get me wrong. i do not have any religion myself. but i have studied with at least 12 groups, sects, cultsa and christians. i think, witnesses raping or abusing kids is out of this world. man, it is kinda funny really! if you guys really hate the religion, then why do you have to set up a site for it in the first place? are you guys too afraid of the JW's that you are being used by the evil forces. let me reiterate, i have no religion. but you see, all of us know that JW's will not hit back on this site or even go for a challenge in debate. i guess they are too weak. why do you guys have to hit and crushed them. funny really! it's as if yoo guys are scared of them! i just hope this short message be published. may we alll find the true religion! because i personally believe that you yourseles are confused as well.

Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 10:24 AM
To NB:
If you keep practicing on your Mommy and Daddy's computer your spelling may improve although I am not sure that it will do anything for your active imagination.

AK Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 1:49 PM
TO NB
Since you do not come from the 'inside' of the organization you could not possibly understand the heavy-handed tactics of the organization. Most of us have been tied up by the organizations' dogma and control tactics for most of our lives. When one is disfellowshipped from this organization it is like leaving no other. We long ago 'disowned' all other association by WTBTS edict! Many of us have grown significantly older since doing that, and there is truly a measure of fear associated with loosing all your friends and family. JW's will not only expell you, but they will gossip and slander in the congregation about you, ruining your good reputation. Then they will shun you entirely until you die or are reinstated to the organization. Mates will treat the DF'd one as if he/she is guilty of murder. Children, parents, uncles, ect., if they are witnesses, will never speak to you again! Very few that visit this site were 'lone witnesses'. Most of us have family in the 'truth', perhaps some have all thier living family in the organization. It can be hard to deal with having no friendly associates in your life, when you are getting older. Most witnesses leave not as teenagers (especially those that leave due to conscience issues like that presented on this site), but as older, often middle aged or elderly persons who have finally seen thru the facade of this cultlike group after having been a part of it all our lives! So in answer to your question, yes there is fear in making that momentous change for most of us. We do not wish the ire of the organization to create the problems for us that it has proven thousands of times over that it will do. What is needed on your part is empathy. Read Raymond Franz' books and try to gain that before you judge us! Jeff

Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 3:37 PM
AK
I think you try hard to be helpful but I don't think this "NB" character is sincere. Most normal people would realize that strictly from a statistical point of view abuse and even sexual abuse of children can happen in any religious group Jehovah's Witnesses are no exception to that rule. Unlike "NB" the thousands of us who have live it as victims have come to realize that the abuse is in fact more common in the Jehovah's Witness religion. That should be no surprise to an outside observer like "NB" claims to be since the JWs are very cult-like in there structure and protocol. In the local congregation I was involved with in a typical blue collar area more than 50 percent of the adult males ended up being involved in accusations of child sexual abuse. Most of the accused came forward as adults and all are upstanding indivuals in the community who are married and have children of their own - one is a nurse and another owns a local business. There are porbably others that don't even have the strength to come forward but regardless of that over 50 percent of adult males! The front page of this website indicates over 25 thousand victim reports and this came from an inside sourse of the Watchtower who risked alot in leaking that information. This "NB" character is probably some trouble making kid on the internet or worse a Jehovah's Witness come here to further harass and persecute the victims just like we see almost everyday. Worse it may even be a pediphile much like we have had in the past who gets their kicks from stalking victims - just part of their abusive profile.

KL Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 5:01 PM
Yo NB: What? Us Afraid? Me Afraid?
You better check yourself before you wreck yourself! No one on here is afraid, and knowing that the WTBS will not resort to responding in this forum is not the reason we choose this site. THEY are the ones who are choosing not to respond to US, so because of THEIR fear you think we should give in and keep quiet? You have no idea what you are talking about. How your ignorance belies itself! In fact, there are some of us on here, myself included, who are taking it straight at the WTBS in court. So to say that we are scared is the stupidest thing you could say, but then again, for someone so stupid as you, I guess it is actually the smartest thing you could say, isn't it?

L.L.B. Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 6:18 PM

To say that the Watchtower is not responding or posting here is very presumptuous. Everyday we get posts saying "Drop the lawsuits" and "come back to the fold" and "stop persecuting us" etc. The posts range from threats to denial to propoganda and outright lies. I am of the opinion that the WTBTS is very active in posting propoganda here and regularly whether it is someone directly in their legal department or a member who has been so authorized to do so. By the was NB I find your comments particularly rude and insulting especially in light of the recent Mesa child rape and murder case. Very poor taste indeed you ought to be ashamed. ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- Bill wanted to provide a medium by which any abuse survivor could post their testimony with complete anonymity, unfortunately this creates a problem by not knowing legitimate posters from imposters. As you can see from my questions to Tom/John he was an imposter that does not merit my time to respond to his challenge. SL Editor

Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 7:35 PM
To NB
Oh, you are so very misguided or something! It takes courage, a lot of courage, for abuse victims to post to this site. It took a great deal of courage for Bill Bowen to start this site. He gave up so much, and he really put himself and so much on the line when he started Silentlambs! You have no idea. Only a very, very brave person with integrity, high morals, and a great sense of ethics could do what he did. No, he felt no fear. Of course, it had to hurt knowing how his actions would alienate his JW family and friends. But, he still went ahead and did what he knew was the right thing to do. If anyone is fearful, scared, and confused is people who are currently JW's, who suspect something is very wrong with how the WTBTS is handling abuse issues, but won't speak up, because they fear the repercussions if they were to do so. I highly respect Bill Bowen and all the others who put so much at stake to post on Silentlambs and give accounts of all the abuse that is going on in the Jehovah's Witnesses religion. Weak people don't do what these people do. They are so strong to post here and share their stories of abuse. I have the utmost admiration for them and for Bill Bowen. It is not easy for people to put so much on line in their lives. It is a gut wrenching choice, a gut wrenching experience. But, they do it! And I applaud them.

L.L.B. Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 7:41 PM
SL Editor
No apologies necessary. You are doing a fine job. I am not surprised that Tom was an imposter as you can clearly see from my response to him that I questioned his credibility. You know when I was involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses I found it a coomon occurance for a significant number of them to claim to be any "expert" or "professional" or "specialist" or having past experience with certain expertise simply to bolster or add credibility to whatever claim they were making. Tom is not the first nor will he be the last malcontent visiting our guestbook or spreading lies about the victims here or the issues we have lived with. At first I was irritated that you would allow their "flame" posts but in retrospect I think it was wise. If nothing else it clearly demonstrates what we are fighting against. If JWs can visit our guestbook thrice daily and harass, belittle, persecute, or simply taunt the thousands of victims who read this guestbook what does that demonstrate about their attitudes and demeanors towards sexual abuse victims in their religious group (cult-like religious group). There is no compassion or respect from them just further attempts to deny and cover up even if that means coming here to OUR website and OUR guestbook and acting in a manner that is even more abusive and repugnant toward the victims here. I see a group that is so obsessed with trying to lay claim to having a clean religion that they will do anything to squash people who come forward out of their group with the true dirt it contains. They have almost a billion in revenue annually, they have a legal department that would rival any large corporation and yet they still have resort to tactics that I find are comparable to those used by organized crime....some Christians they are. No sincere compassion - just cover up. Keep fighting the good fight Bill and SL editor because everyday is a day you may prevent another Mesa story.

s.m. Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 7:51 PM
you said it well!
To K.L. You said it excellently when you mentioned JWs are more interested in getting new robots to control (converts) than in caring for the ones already there!

ilidio Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 7:58 PM
NB
I could not but laugh with the message that you posted. NB, you mentioned twice that you do not have any religion, was that for emphasis or are you trying to fool yourself??? According to your statement you have studied with at least a dozen groups, sects, cults and Christians, as a result if someone here is confused (as you state) that would be you! You seem to have very high regards for the JW, that being the case why did you not join them?? Now, to answer your first question: No, not all of us are disfellowshiped here. My wife and I left due to a matter of abuse that kept being covered up. Our conscience forced us to leave. You might not know the meaning of the word but you can find it in the dictionary, perhaps that should be your next study, you might even learn how to spell while you look for that word. Also so that you might understand being disfellowshiped is not a disease. That is in fact a punishment used by the JW for people who do not agree with their policies, or for people who can not turn a blind eye to the things that happen but are not supposed to happen in the Congregations. Please stop wasting your time studying with every Dick and Harry and start educating yourself. Life is just too short. If you are not part of the solution you must be part of the problem.

tvl Tuesday, September 28, 2004
@ 8:59 PM
real truth
The abuse with children and young women and men in the WTB&T society comes as no surprise...their first original founder engaged in questionable activity, witnessed by his very wife, the then known C.T. Russell with underaged girls.

KL Wednesday, September 29, 2004
@ 12:08 AM
Watchtower Postings
Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I know that the WTBTS posts here, but the fact that they do it ANONYMOUSLY shows that they are the intimidated ones, not us. And just to reiterate, the fact that I am NOT disfellowshipped yet am suing the reinstated ex-elder AND the WTBTS proves it even more. They are even trying to keep our cases from being coordinated, because they KNOW they are guilty in all of them. Yet despite that guilt, they refuse to offer us victims any assistance in lieu of these lawsuits? WTF is that about? We shall soon see. To semi-quote a great songwriter, "I am victim, hear me ROAR!!!!!!"

Cheri Romero Wednesday, September 29, 2004
@ 6:30 AM
To LLB Organized Crime?
I agree with all you and all the rest have said about NB's statements except for one thing--In organized crime, (The Mob) if you were to mess with one of their kids? They would rip off your gonads and feed them to you while feeding you to the fish!! If given a choice between organized religion and organized crime? I'd choose The Mob any day of my life. If nothing else than to save my kids.

L.L.B. Wednesday, September 29, 2004
@ 2:52 PM
lol Cheri
Your sense of humour is refreshing in spite of all you have endured.

Wednesday, September 29, 2004
@ 7:24 PM
To Cheri
Yeah, Cheri, The Mob does a lot of horrible things, but they do take care of their children. They really look out for their kids. Anyone who does not preserve, protect, and cherish the natural, beautiful innocence of children is guilty of the greatest neglect and abuse. Calling a little child a liar when they tell someone about their being molested is about the basest thing I can think of. Talk about cruel and unusual treatment. That about takes the cake!

Cheri Romero Wednesday, September 29, 2004
@ 8:01 PM
A Victim or a Survivor?
I believe that I for one am a survivor not a victim. But one thing that I dont know if I can survive would be to bury a child of mine. This is off the track somewhat but since my son was also a victim and since I am a member of this sl organization, I thought I would put this out here in sort of a request for power prayer or community candle light ceremony. My son is 20 years old and returned from Iraq in May. When he was 10 years old I requested a cat scan from the welfare department because I believed that he might have a tumor. They said they needed a referral from a doctor and I couldnt get a doctor to give me one. Now, he is in Kansas at his military base and was scheduled to return to Iraq for 15 months but he turned up with a possible brain tumor. He gets his cat scan today and then... I dont know. I am just asking for support for him. He is a great guy!! He had never even been in a fist fight when he went to Iraq and now he wonders if god will forgive him for the killing he was forced to do. He thinks that if he dies from a tumor that it is his punishment for the killing. I know better than that but please keep him in your thoughts and prayers if you still have a belief in God. He was also a victim of child molest and was in counseling for 6 years with my family. I am feeling very weak right now. When it comes to my kids, I am a marshmellow. -------------------------------------------- I am sorry to hear about your son I will keep him in my prayers. SL Editor

Cheri Romero Wednesday, September 29, 2004
@ 8:03 PM
To KL
Are you sure you are a victim? I see a survivor in you. A "ROARING" survivor. Just an observation.

KL Thursday, September 30, 2004
@ 12:14 AM
Cheri
I am so sorry to hear about your son. And, yes, I actually am a survivor, but don't expect that kind of endorsement from the Watchtower! What a combination, Welfare and the Elders - Both out to screw who they can!!!

AK Thursday, September 30, 2004
@ 9:33 AM
To Cheri
We all hope and pray that you do not have to ever bury your son. My hopes and prayers go out in your behalf with this latest situation. You are a survivor - and you will survive what ever comes your way. Please keep your spirits up, and know that we all are pulling for a good outcome. Jeff

concerned Thursday, September 30, 2004
@ 11:13 AM
just to say
my niece is a former surviver of child sex abuse at the hands of her own father with the end results of giving birth to his child the elders were notified and he was given a slap on the hand but this child has to live with this for the rest of her life . Witnesses dont understand the harm that they do.God and Jesus hold children close to their hearts and when you harm a child in any way you harm them(God &Jesus).

jen Friday, October 1, 2004
@ 9:34 AM
cheri
I just saw your post this morning re: your son. Tell your son this: No man hath greater love than this, that he should lay down his life for another. I have an incredible amount of respect and love for our soldiers out there. Because of courageous men and women like himself, many people will taste the freedom that we in America and "civilised" countries take for granted every day. If only the JWs involved in this hideous crime had the same sort of humanity that your son has, hundreds of people would not be suffering as they are now. It takes an incredible amount of love for your fellow man to do what he has done. If God would punish him, for putting his life on the line and allow these "Pharisees" to reside in His throne room with him then that would not be a just God. But I do and always will beilieve that all his ways are just and righteous. Cheri my prayers are with you right now, I hope the cat scan came back clean. YOu guys I know that I had sold you out some time back. Kind of a strange story. This comes from me not bill or sl Check out David Reeds work. Also, Jeff I believe I saw a post from you on another JW site, are there any you recomend?

jen Friday, October 1, 2004
@ 9:42 AM
everyone
I didn't say... That I am sorry about selling you guys out. LIke I said, kind of a strange story. As if you couldn't tell. Take care

L.L.B. Friday, October 1, 2004
@ 2:46 PM
Cheri
My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. In my book your son and all others who risk their lives to fight tyrany, evil oppresion and terrorism are heroes. I prefer to reserve comments when I haven't walked a mile in someone else's shoes and the Lord knows if I was in his circumstances the worry and depressing thoughts might get me down. Surely you could make him realize that if he was correct in his fears, than all soldiers would be getting critically ill on return from duty. I hope you can convince him to see a psychologist who he express his feelings and work through this time. Doesn't the army offer a service like this? In any event please send my best wishes and my personal regards and heartfelt thanks for his brave service. God bless.

Annonymous Monday, October 4, 2004
@ 1:02 PM
Oh My Gosh!
YOu Jahovah Witnesses are on the wrong track! chrsitianity is the right way! give your life to jesus and forever be forgivin. Not celebrating holidays is wrong Jesus says to celebrate and have fun and you dont listen to Jesus the one true savior! Christmas especially is important and you still wont celebrate jesus' birth and that is sad. I have prayed and prayed for jehovahs witnesses for the longest time and the lord put it on my heart to write this. I love you all and hope to see you in heaven.

john Monday, October 4, 2004
@ 5:50 PM
hi
just wanted to say hi to all you new guys. i was here on the guest book 2 years ago before the brooklyn march .

Natalie Webb Monday, October 4, 2004
@ 6:05 PM
Keep up the good work
Dear Lambs,

RJ Tuesday, October 5, 2004
@ 9:09 AM
Say Hi To Billy Bowman for me
he won't answer my emails so tell him RJ sends a great big apsotate hug. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Bill is quite busy these days, have patience and I have been out of town on business. SL Editor

KL Wednesday, October 6, 2004
@ 11:37 AM
To Annonymous
Get over yourself!!! You obviously have SERIOUS issues and feel the need to bring up something that has NOTHING to do with abuse. Please refrain from posting your pagan ideas on holidays. Thanks!

L.L.B. Wednesday, October 6, 2004
@ 7:56 PM
KL
With all due respect KL I appreciate you being annoyed at that post as it is out of place in this guestbook (i.e. has nothing to do with the SL issues) but then so is your comment on holidays. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------ Decided to put up the post since some have complained about the guest list being boring. SL Editor

Juan C. Thursday, October 7, 2004
@ 12:25 AM
To NB
I read your post of September 28, 2004, and One thing I can say for sure is that you have no idea on what Jehova's Witness policy is in handling child abuse and child molestation incidents. Well, here's some of the things from their policies: If a child is abused and/or molested within the religon, the victim must have two witnesses to be believed, or else if not, then the victim is called a liar and the victim and the parents cannot warn anyone else, because if they do, they'll be charged with gossiping about thier congregation (church) and they'll get disfellowshipped and that means getting shuned by their families and members of the religon. Also their policy says that victims cannot go to the police. I would suggest that you go to this site's media library and start first by watching Bill Bowen and Danny Haszard talking about this issue, then watch NBC's Dateline coverage on this issue, then Watch BBC's Panorama coverage as well. This would help you to get informed and learn why child abuse in the Jehova's Witness religon is so big and like no other out there. Also the name of the organization that governs the Jehova's Witness Religon is Watchtower, and they set all the rules and policies for this religon. Also, you'll learn that Watchtower is given plenty of opportunity by the media that reports on the issue of child abuse in the Jehova's Witness religon, to speak up for themselves and clergy what's wrong, but they've declined them. Last thing, Watchtower goes out of their way to protect their image at all costs.

KL Thursday, October 7, 2004
@ 12:59 AM
Holidays
Look, all I am saying is that we don't need for this forum to go off in some other direction again. I swear that at least once a week someone comes on here and tries to take the focus off of abuse and make it be about doctrine or self-serving apostate nonsense, and it really pisses me off. And for someone to try to convince us that the worst thing in our life is that we don't celebrate Christmas is crap! I was once abused on Christmas, so shut the hell up and take your pagan philosophies somewhere else please. Thanks for bringing up more bad memories, jerk! Next time, think before you spout.

ilidio Thursday, October 7, 2004
@ 6:26 AM
To: All
Kl, seemed to get all upset because anonymous mentioned of a holiday that you think is pagan. Christmas is as pagan as celebrating a wedding anniversary or putting a ring on the finger or going on honeymoon for that matter. The wedding honeymoon as an example was an accepted practice in BABYLON 4,000 years ago, for that month after the wedding, the brides father would supply his son-in-law with all the mead (form of honey beer) he could drink, because their calendar was lunar based, they called it HONEY MONTH or what we know today as honey moon. It could very well be that very soon the society will come out and say that wedding rings and honeymoons are no longer allowed by JW. KL might not see it, BUT THIS IS IN FACT A FORM OF ABUSE. Thank you SL editor as you can see if some leverage is not given this site is almost dead. Just came from Europe on businesses and not much happened while I was gone. SL editor should use some judgment as this site was design primarily to help abused ones

RJ Thursday, October 7, 2004
@ 8:45 AM
Is It True?
Your post has been deleted due to irrelevant content. SL Editor

Dub Thursday, October 7, 2004
@ 1:35 PM
WATCHTOWER PROTEST
Hey folks, just a quick note, there will be a watchtower protest rally in Georgetown Ontario, Canada on this Saturday, October 9, at noon, in front of the Watchtower Headquarters in Georgetown. We need people so we can get lots of media exposture, we would love to have you out. Thanks If you plan on attending, then email me at : to_protest_rally@yahoo.ca Lawrence Hughes Here is a map to the Protest site http://formerjw.homestead.com/gtwn_bethel1i.jpg

ilidio Friday, October 8, 2004
@ 7:34 AM
kl
KL, my heart goes out to you for the abuse that you have been through, I personally never went such and I am thankful to God, however the person that is most dear to me in this world was abused within the JW org and I somehow feel your pain. Now, just because you were abused on Christmas is not a valid reason for someone to mention that word. Thousands of people die per day world wide by car accidents, is that a good reason for us no