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October 2002 Guestbook - Page 2

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Comment: YAY IT WORKS!!! w00 h00!!! go me . . err something
October 5, 2002

Comment: This is a test to see if your guestbook is working. The new security has been updated, OUT WITH OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW!
October 5, 2002

Comment: Guest Book Test
October 5, 2002

Comment: This is a truly noble effort. Although I am an atheist, I would like to offer you my best wishes to you in your battle against those who enforce ignorance upon others and to those who have suffered that they'll find happiness one day. I'm am thoroughly disgusted with the acts of the JW, and needless to say they're worse than the Christian Depiction of Satan. By the way, it would be helpful too to pinpoint JW communities around the globe so that others will be aware of the possibility of the existence of a pedophile in the local community.
October 5, 2002

Comment: CONGRATULATIONS on breaking up the months of August & Sept. & October in the Guestbook! Is that you who I think it might be working on this??? :-) THANK YOU, if it is You. If it's someone else, well, thank them Too! :-) ------- QUESTION, though: Where are all the posts from 1st of October through NOW? I posted a lot of posts last night (Friday 10-4-02) and the night before that, etc. I am hoping/assuming you are still working on this OCTOBER Section? and that all the posts from 10-1 through 10-5 will be added back in here soon? ----------------- ONE MORE QUESTION while I've got your attention: I don't see a SCROLL BAR on the right side of the OCTOBER Guestbook Page. Is that under construction also? --------------- YES, YAHOO, & THANKS TO YOU & GOOD FOR YOU, like you wrote in your funny messages at the top of the October page, dated 10-5-02. WE APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!!! ----- And Hi Everybody Else, too! /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: HELLO WEBMASTER: Got another question: I notice there is no "CLEAR MESSAGE" button on this "COMMENT" page/window area. SO when I came back to write a second message, I had to manually "highlight" all the previous copy that was in this window from my first message, and then delete it, before I could write this second message. Will you be adding a "CLEAR MESSAGE" button to the "COMMENT PAGE" area? THANK YOU!!! (Also, I DID see the scroll bar on the October Message Page once I submitted my message. My goof!) /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: WEBMASTER: I notice when I use QUOTATION MARKS around a word, they show up as slashes on each side of the word rather than Quotation Marks. Is that something that can be fixed? THANK YOU! LOVE WHAT YOU ARE DOING FOR THE SILENTLAMB WEB PAGE & GUESTBOOK!!! /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: OK, I didn't describe that exactly right in the above post. The QUOTE MARKS DO show up, but IN ADDITION, there are slash marks // on each side of whichever word with Quotes. I guess that is no big deal really. --------- But I sure do HOPE HOPE HOPE all the messages from October 1 through October 5, 2002, WILL BE ADDED BACK IN HERE??? (I looked at the September Messages to see if they were at the bottom of that, but they are not). Do you have them in storage somewhere until you have time to put them here in the OCTOBER page? THANK YOU!!! /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: ONE LAST QUESTION, and I will shut up for now. I DON'T SEE A TIME-OF-DAY for each post, but only the DATE. Will the TIME OF DAY of each post/feature be added back in? Sometimes we have to use that in order to differentiate who we are replying to, for the posters who do not use their names or give a name. Then we reply to them by saying, "To No Name who Posted on 10-6-02 @ 3:40 AM" -- see what I mean? ----- THANK YOU !!! /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: HI AGAIN WEBMASTER: ONE MORE THING I NOTICED, if you don't mind me asking: As of late Friday night 10-4-02, the prior "Most Recent" Guestbook page (which included everything from Part II-August 6th clear thru 10-4-02) had a total of 2. 6 MBs on that one page. ----- Now that the months are broken up, the figures are showing up like this: August Part II has a total of 1. 3 MBs; and Sept. has 736 KBs. Therefore, MISSING are a TOTAL of 564 KBs worth-of-posts from October 1 through October 5th. WILL YOU PLEASE look around your office & and see if your can find our missing 564 KBs of OCTOBER posts??? ;-) THANK YOU!!! /SLC ----- (Also, if this is WHO I think it is working on the Guestbook: Please let me know WHEN I can tell the others WHO you are so they can THANK YOU ALSO! My lips are zipped until you give the OK. )
October 6, 2002

Comment: Very informative. One wonders who you can trust anymore. There seems to be nowhere left that a predator can't go. . . What better way into a flock than to dress a wolf in sheep's clothing. . . . . There is no sanctuary left in this world, so very, very sad. . . .
October 6, 2002

Comment: I want to read other postings today
October 6, 2002

Comment: After watching the Sunday program I can only congratulate your excellent work with this website. I did not experience abuse from this religious order, however, the elders of this order took away a very fine and beautiful gentleman from my family. They are a poor excuse for human beings.
October 6, 2002

Comment: Here is an essay that looks at the child abuse issue from Jehovah's viewpoint. http://www. e-watchman. com/essays/justice_silentlambs/justice_silentlambs. htm
October 6, 2002

Comment: For those of you who are interested, there is a new msn group for anyone who is contemplating leaving the org, those who have been df'd or da'd, or simply want a small setting to make and meet new friends. This is not to take away from any other groups around, just to give another option and this one is smaller than many others. http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape Linda Thoman
October 6, 2002

Comment: Webmaster: THANK YOU for the new guestbook forum. . . . . every endeavor takes time and I know this took a lot of yours.
October 6, 2002

Comment: Greetings, yes there are some differences in the way this new guest book operates. Number one, it is most assuredly higher security now. The first posts of October can be seen as you enter the Guest book button from the first page and before you click on view or add a post look all the way down the links to October 02 Part 1. Here you will find the first part of October already archived away from this current book. I have noticed the syntax problems within the add message part of and have no immediate fix for that except to ask you not to use hyphens so they wont show up in your messages for now. I will look into this. In Him Webmaster
October 6, 2002

Comment: is it not possible to enter without writing a message?
October 6, 2002

Comment: This is great! I went back to January 2002 posts to see if there was a difference in the tone of the posts. I did this a couple of days ago and yes the posts were much more to the subject and deep. The security here was needed. Thank you for keeping this a safe place. I can't image how much work this involved. Love, Claudine
October 6, 2002

Comment: Dear Webmaster: Thanks for checking in and answering our Qs! If I am following your instructions correctly, the first page I see (without clicking on "view" or "add a post") is this, and I do not see any October 02, Part 1. The list of months ends with Sept. 02, Part 1. ----- Here's what that page shows on my computer: -------------------------------------- We'd like to know what you think about our web site. Please leave your comments in this public guest book so we can share your thoughts with other visitors. --- Add to Current Guest Book, View Current Guest Book, Past Months Here: March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January, February, March, April, May 02 Part 1, May 02 Part 2, June 02 Part 1, June 02 Part 2, July 02 Part 1, July 02 Part 2, August 02 Part 1, August 02 Part 2, September 02 Part 1, 2002 -------- Copyright © 2002 by silentlambs. org- All rights reserved. Revised: 05 Oct 2002 21:32:47 -0700 . ----------------------------------------- And that's all there is on this page, no October Part 1. Is it my computer or is anyone else out there seeing it this way? Thanks for any info. . SLC -------------------------- Mr. Webmaster had written: The first posts of October can be seen as you enter the Guest book button from the first page and before you click on view or add a post look all the way down the links to October 02 Part 1. Here you will find the first part of October already archived away from this current book.
October 6, 2002

Comment: Greetings, Dear Guestbook visitors, If you see less than October Part one, then you either need to restart your computer or REFRESH your page, you are not seeing the most current page. The most current page of the guest book entry has October the first five days archived at the bottom of it. I have had several immature persons e mail me with virus attempts recently. This will not stop me and only firms up my faith in what I am helping with on Silentlambs. It is a very sad thing that so much hate gets reflected out from some. God is not about Hate, God is Love. . . . . . . Webmaster
October 6, 2002

Comment: I've refreshed the web page. I deleted all temporary Internet files. I still can't find October 1-4, 2002. ???
October 6, 2002

Comment: I'm sorry, too, that there is so much hatred expressed. However, there isn't a lot of sympathy for victims, even outside of the organization. It's a sickness that is pervasive everywhere. People perceive victims as weak and, therefore, deserving of their victimization. Therefore, it's understandable that their is hatred and blaming of victims - even by people who should know better and who should know better than Jehovah's Witnesses. Yet, in spite of all their Bible reading and excellent articles on this subject, they keep giving in to a very common, ingrained hatred and fear of victims. Yes, fear - if they need to admit there is victimization then they need to admit to having wrong thinking or that they, too, have been victimizers. Everyone likes to think they are upright and honorable and they have a lot of difficulty in seeing let alone admitting to having done wrong. Unfortunately, the lack of sympathy stems from CENTURIES of brutality. There is a fear of admitting to weakness or or having been taken advantage of. That fear is loss of respect from others, loss of employment, and, worse, fear of being victimized even more. Getting these ingrained tendencies turned around is not an easy task. Refusing to see that one or others - even an organization - has such ingrained wrong tendencies and thinking is not unusual. It takes one or others to do UNusual thinking and examination to see and understand the issues - even for people who know the true God, Jehovah. Remember, in the entire ancient Israelite nation, only 7,000 were serving Jehovah faithfully - and HE NOTICED THEM. This is not an excuse. It's a sad statement against those who refuse to adjust themselves to the scriptural guidelines of God's love. They tread on very thin ice in Jehovah God's eyes. That is very scary - for them. So scary that I, for one, would not ridicule or complain against or even be glad for their downfall because it is THAT SERIOUS before Jehovah God.
October 6, 2002

Comment: hi
October 6, 2002

Comment: Still can't find October, last archive is Sept 02. . . no matter how many times I have gone and come back. *************************Good thoughts about how bad things are everywhere - one thing I noticed years ago is that when you have been a victim and you go to court you must prove how much the offender has ruined your life. It isn't enough that a crime has been committed against you, but you have to prove how much damage this has caused to your life. You have to prove that what you lost was a lot And then like you say everyone hates you if it has caused you to appear "weak". . . . the victim is damned one way or the other. ****There is contempt for the victim. . . geeezzz magee. They are blamed for getting themselves into it, and if that doesn't hold true because it is a child, then they's better get over it. . . or there is something deficent in them. The world is sick, we do need God's Kingdom and we do need to pray for those walking on the thin ice as hard as that is to do and it is very hard to do. Love, Claudine
October 6, 2002

Comment: VIDEO of Silentlambs MARCH -- Here's another site where you can watch the Silentlambs March of 9-27-02. This one is in Real Player. There are two parts of it up already (17 min. each), and two more forthcoming: http://www. dannyhaszard. com/brooklynmarch. htm ------------- I'm going there now as my computer wouldn't work at the other site which used Windows Media Player. Enjoy!! /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: PS: Refreshing isn't making the Oct. archived posts show up on my Mac. I use I. E. v. 5. 1. 5 for Mac, if that makes any difference? ------ That's really pitiful the way those people send viruses to the webmaster for this site. What drives people to act that way, I do not get it. -- I got a weird email yesterday addressed to the addy I created to use on the other forum, so it had to come from someone who saw it there. And it had some attachment but I did not open it, sent it straight to the trash. It had a nonsensical subject line, so I knew it was bogus. And it came from someone named: starsfan50. So Beware! Love/SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: Hey Gang, here's the addy I created for public guestbook/forums/etc. -FYI: My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com
October 6, 2002

Comment: This is SLC's message. I tried using the "Name" feature at the comment window, so that's why I didn't sign my name at the end of the comment, but my name didn't show up once it posted. So anyway, here it is again. . . My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com
October 6, 2002

Comment: Please forgive me! I guess I'm too tired and not thinking straight! THE CORRECT ADDRESS for SLC is HERE (Ignore the ones above, please, as I forgot to add the word: owner, in them)! CORRECT: My_JW_Stuff-OWNER@yahoogroups. com ----- Thanks for your patience! /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: Greetings, this is a "test" of the guestbook. In Him
October 6, 2002

Comment: Greetings, it looks like the syntax issues are solved. Thanks for your patience. In Him Webmaster. . . . . .
October 6, 2002

Comment: I went to www. silentlambs. com and www. silentlambs. org and, in both cases, I still cannot get Oct. 1 through 4 postings.
October 6, 2002

Comment: Hi
October 6, 2002

Comment: AP: BILL BOWEN ARRESTED! Bill Bowen, administrator of the silentlambs web site is in police custody tonight after being caught doing unspeakable things to stuffed toys. A staff member at silent lambs said "I couldn't beleive it. I walked into the store-room and there he was, naked from the waist down, indulging in some wierd sexual fetish! It was then I realised why all the lambs had large holes in the back of them!" The stuffed toys, which are sold by the hundreds, were analysed and found to contain traces of Bill's masturbatory emissions. The "abused lambs" were too traumatised to make any comments today.
October 6, 2002

Comment: This new guest book is pretty gay. why don't my name show up? And no more web links to click on. Maybe you just want to keep people from finding out the real truth about bill. Also some of my posts have been deleted. I don't see how the security is better. Why don't you block out those great big long posts that idiots keep posting ? It takes ages to load the damn page. And the font is too small. blah.
October 6, 2002

Comment: yes I think the guest book has been a roaring success! Another grand victory for the silent lambs! I think I will go masturbate now. B. Bowen.
October 6, 2002

Comment: Who are the other 4 alleged GB molesters? Has it made the media yet?
October 6, 2002

Comment: Whoever wrote: "And the font is too small. blah. " ----- All you have to do is go to your browser's menu bar under View, and drop down to TEXT ZOOM, and you have total control over the size of the fonts on ANY webpage. --- Now say "THANK YOU" like a good little troll and run along (maybe spend some time learning your computer instead of writing vulgar comments. ) /SLC
October 6, 2002

Comment: "When the wicked ones sprout as the vegetation, and all the practicers of what is hurtful blossom forth, It is that they may be annihilated forever. " (Ps. 92:7-NWT) ------------------------- "When the wicked ones SPROUT as TROLLS, and all the practicers of what is HURTFUL blossom forth by posting their vulgar UGLINESS all OVER the Guestbook, It is that they may be annihilated from posting forever. " (Ps. 92:7-SLC version)
October 6, 2002

Comment: What is a troll? The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your expense. If you find his posts about Bill Bowen upsetting rest assured THAT was his intention. He is a person who is psychologically disturbed, and seeks to feel good by making other guestbook members feel bad. His post make this pretty obvious. He is filled with hate but he is ill, too. He is a sort of "psycho troll", whose deception involves deceiving himself as well as others. He probably believes he is serving God or at least the governing body. In this respect, he is no different to the sorts of people we meet in everyday life who are disturbed - some of them are easy to spot, and others aren't. However, in the real world it is easier to avoid this animal.
October 6, 2002

Comment: I saw the "Sunday" program in Australia yesterday - it was excellent! The comment about "Waiting on Jehovah" is all the advice the victims ever get. Well, Dear Governing Body, the Waiting is OVER and jehovah will execute his vengeance on you all!
October 6, 2002

Comment: I was part of the Jehovah's Witnesses about 6 years ago. This religion has broken my immediate family apart, my sister was sexually abused, possibly by her father (not a JW but was involved with the 7th Day'ers) and I now have no contact with them and haven't for around 2 1/2 years. I was totally shocked when I read the articles on this website,directed to it by a recent report on TV here in Australia. My heart goes out to everyone who has suffered!!
October 6, 2002

Comment: thank you web master for bringing some sort of good here. . i will look foward to supporting the lambs. and not having to fight with the jw's here . . . it will work out. . . hi to all the girls. . if they throw me off. . i will be with all in my heart. . love to all i'm still doing my part. . . . john
October 6, 2002

Comment: i still see noname mary jane posting. . with his crap!!!!webmaster if you want me to be polite. . please remove this garbage. . or i will respond . . if you dump me so be it. . . john
October 6, 2002

Comment: Dear Webmaster, The guestbook is wonderful. The print is easier for me to read. I'm sure there are bugs to work out but we are grateful to have your help. Thanks!!!
October 6, 2002

Comment: I would jut like to say that I am sadened by these outragous allegations against the JW church. It's about time a legal investergation was carried out by American law enforcement officals which saw the home office raided noly then will the true severity of this problem be known. My heart and tears go out to all those who have suffered at the hands of this criminals, and there protectors. johnalan@totalise. co. uk
October 6, 2002

Comment: Hey john, go play on the freeway or something. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002

Comment: And you, SLC - misquoting the bible, shame on you. Now run along like a good little troll. I think I hear bill calling you. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002

Comment: "Let fornication and uncleanness of EVERY SORT or greediness NOT EVEN BE MENTIONED amoung YOU, just as it befits holy people; neither shameful conduct nor foolish talking nor obscene jesting, things which are not becoming, but rather the giving of thanks" (Ephesians 5:3,4) Just how does this disgusting talk about Bill Bowen fit into the mind and heart and MOUTH of a true Christian? If some or all here are so terrible, how is your speech going to help them to be recovered? What kind of a person, Christian, are you? I think a DEPLORABLE ONE - the reason people will speak abusively about the true Christians. "However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. " (2 Peter 2:1,2) These words are talking about YOU, pig mouth!
October 6, 2002

Comment: Well i must say its an interesting site i am a practicing Jehovah's Witness and certainly do not condone any sort of child molesters . i must say i am truely sorry to any vitims if they have not been looked after and it the allegations are true it certainly does reflect badly on the organization. Having said that however i thing i do disagree with is that some say we can't be reformed Jehovah's organization is constantly being reformed and if Elders are guilty of not reporting these crimes then i hope the society will take the appropriate action. Only 3 weeks ago a letter was read out in our congregation clearly stating that victums certainly have every right to go to the approprite authorities. i've been in the truth about 18 years now been in about 5 congregations and in only 1 have i seen any case of child molesting obviosly thats 1 too many however i know that this person certainly was not protected and as far as i know when people found out about him had nothing to do with him even though he has not been reproved at the time how ever he is now disfellowshipped and hopefully the authoritys will have been notified of his actions.
October 6, 2002

Comment: Oct 05, 2002 . . . Suit targets Jehovah's Witnesses Benton complaint about sex abuse and church policy is said to be the first of hundreds across the U. S. By Jennifer Rouse Mid-Valley Sunday One excerpt:Time passed, and Davidow didn't see anything being done, either to help her son or to discipline the offender. She continued to ask the elders what they were doing about the issue, the lawsuit says. Eventually, she contacted the elders at the North Corvallis congregation, where the alleged abuser and his mother were members. "The elders of (Corvallis congregation) instructed her to 'stop talking about it, we've got it handled,'" the lawsuit states. When Cathy Davidow finally reported her son's abuse to the police, she was disfellowshipped. Tyler was not disfellowshipped but chose to leave the faith on his own. http://www. midvalleysunday. com/display/inn_local/news02. txt
October 6, 2002

Comment: FYI: Some of the people who administer the site have reported receiving viruses by e-mail. I would like to point out that most viruses are sent unintentionally (ie. a person receives a virus in e-mail and as soon as they open it, the virus e-mails itself to everyone in their address book) Please do not assume that you are being personally targeted. There are some very prolific viruses spreading at the current time. Go to the antivirus research center at http:www. symantec. com and look up the details on the new viruses that are spreading like wildfire at the moment. It is unlikely that someone could target you deliberately unless they had access to virus source code. prof
October 6, 2002

Comment: I have a fleshly sister who is also supposed to be a spiritual sister that is vile and foul-mouthed and likes to write such derogatory things. She doesn't see the inappropriateness of her conduct and speech. When people react, rightly, indignant at her, she thinks it's FUNNY. The foul-mouthed, disrespectful and arrogant person posting here could very well be her. I wouldn't put it past her. She's been known for using phoney names and different email addresses to harass others. I have nothing to do with her. There's no doubt in my mind that she's a sicko. Yet, she "knows the right people" and seems to always get away with her deplorable behavior. However, Jehovah God sees her and hears her and he knows the WHOLE STORY. You see, he's not just HER witness, he's OUR witness, too. He knows it ALL. Trying to lie to Jehovah God is the stupidist thing anyone can do. Yet, when people don't accept responsibility for their actions and try to cover them up, that's exactly what they're doing. When elders make an accounting for those in their care, they need to remember that Jehovah God doesn't care that they're elders. He cares how they treated his sheep. If they're liears, they're liars - elder or not. Same goes for my insane sister. I agree, such a person is psycho sick.
October 6, 2002

Comment: To the "pig mouth" person and the other comments about foul speech: I AM NOT A JW. And since when do you make the rules for me? And how about telling john to tone down his foul speech and threatening posts. Sorry, I forgot. He's not speaking against your precious lambs. And what about Bill ? I think he's a pretty big hypocrite considering what I read about him on this web site: http://www. bill. bowen. isgay. com Foul speech is one thing, but that's just disgusting. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002

Comment: hey ask your sister for me how can I get a fake e-mail addy
October 6, 2002

Comment: Really i mean come on , I cant work out what you peole are talking about. I dont think you even know what you are talking about. The fact is that these people need to be punished for such inhuman acts and in time they will be.
October 7, 2002

Comment: "I Put My Sex Abuse Dad in Prison. " is the title of a two-page article about Alison in the "Real Life" Section of the November 2002 issue (pgs. 20-21) of the UK's most popular teen magazine, "Sugar. " The below link will take you to the scanned copy of the article. Alison, as you know, is the young lady who was featured on the BBC's Panorama show regarding the JW sex abuse in the UK. ----------------- Please Write a thank you to the editor and/or reporter for this article. I think it's a great idea to put a story like this in a Teen magazine so other young ladies will know what to do should anything similar ever happen to them. Good job Sugar Magazine and Alison! ------------ You may also write Alison herself, as she posted this here in our Guestbook in July after the BBC program. Thanks! /SLC ------------ Hi. I am Alison Cousins who you will have heard about in the BBC program, if any person would like to write to me about the program or give me there comments please feel free to do so. My email address is: SANDYCOUSINS@HOTMAIL. COM Looking forward to hearing from you. Good Luck and God Bless, Bill.
October 7, 2002

Comment: HERE's the LINK to the above article about Alison: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=37985&page=1&site=3#516899 ----------- And Here's the email addy for "Sugar" teen Magazine: websugar@hf-uk. com -------------- It seems you cannot put those little pointer/quote marks on each side of the URL nor on Email Addy's, because if you do, then they do not show up in your post here. ---- We're learning new rules for how this new G-book works! ;-) /SLC
October 7, 2002

Comment: I have just read the Oct 8 1993 Awake! and I see no endorsement for obstructing police or telling abused children to remain silent. To the contrary the article encourges children to tell their parents and the parents to believe them even if the abuser is the other parent! The reason given is that kids do not have the resources adults have. Be careful about going ahead with a class action as everyone knows when money is involved the truth is never told. Here in Australia a class action against a sport coach was dismissed because the allegation were proved false and based solely on greed and wanting money by the alledged victims. So suing the org. when they have openly in that Awake! encouraged victims to speak out and parents to take action will only lead to more sorrow for the victims. When individual elders take it upon themselves even to defy the scriptural injunction about respect for the law (Romans 13: 1-4) then the organisation is clearly not liable when they have advised otherwise.
October 7, 2002

Comment: Oct. 7
October 7, 2002

Comment: I was both fascinated and horrified by the material in this website,about a third of which I have examined in the past few hours. It is now listed with my "favourites". I was brought up in the "Truth" and have now been disfellowshipped for four yrs. I was sexually abused by my father from the time I was brought home from the hospital until the abuse was reported when I was six. My parents separated at this time, divorced when I was eight, and my father was killed in a hit and run accident when I turned nine. I continued to be molested by non-Witnesses, until at thirteen (with only a year or so abuse-free), my mother finally met and moved in with a Ministerial Servant in a neighbouring Congregation. In full knowledge of my past, he continued where the others had left off, at a time (puberty) when my mind and body were at complete war with one another. . . . My body finally awakening to the sensations, while my mind was screaming NO! this is wrong. With my background, for a while, I almost accepted the situation as being 'normal', even 'natural' behaviour on his part, and as such offered no resistance, even tacitly encouraging Him. The only thought that soon prevented this was remembering all the scriptures in Leviticus about the 'wrongness' of 'laying bare the nakedness' of close family members, and the consequences of doing so. The situation was eventually uncovered, when he accused me of sleeping around, and even tried to pin blame on my own brother (falsely). I had remained silent mostly because I felt my mother was finally happy again, and didn't want to jeopardize her happiness. But after all this, I eventually screamed: "It was you!" at Him, and Mum just happened to overhear. He then tried to lay all the blame on me, claiming that I instigated every act, tried to touch him sexually (a thought that repulsed me as he was almost 70), and that I belonged in a home for wayward girls. When the matter was brought before the Elders, I was the one viewed darkly, and felt to be a threat to other males in the congregation. On a personal level He even had the audacity to tell the principal of a school that Mum tried to enroll me in that 'I could not be trusted around any males'. Had the matter not been reported to the secular authorities, I have no idea what would have happened. He and Mum were both disfellowshipped from the congregation, but for living together unmarried, not due to the abuse. I tried to get my life together (after my older brothers took over my care), but in 1994, after finally discovering what a true loving relationship was like, and finding it impossible to remain alone, (and having been publicly reproved from the platform for my resulting conduct) decided to skip the country, and try to make a 'fresh start' with a 'clean slate' in South Africa, where no-one would know anything about me, or my past, other than what I shared with them (which I did, a little too freely). I eventually met and married one of my romantic interests, the only way I felt I could return to the Congregation without feeling like an absolute hypocrite. In 1996 (after having had my handbag taken at knife point by a 'local'),I brought my new husband home to Adelaide and in order to prove that I was truly prepared to 'let bygones be bygones', we even stayed in Mum and her now Husband's home. There was some attempt to get my husband interested in 'the Truth', unfortunately knowing my history, he was little impressed that both Mum and Partner had been not only re-instated in the Congregation, but were even permitted to hold a Book-Study in their own home. Not to mention that my own brother (now an Elder himself) greeted my arrival with "You know you are never going to get away with this", after two years or more of not having had any communication with me. I had privileges taken from me in the Congregation belatedly for my misconduct prior to my marriage, but eventually after many months regained my standing in the congregation. Finally after three-and-a-half years of marriage, my relationship fell apart, and my husband and I separated. When I eventually took up with someone outside the Congregation (and before things got too out of hand), I was reproved, and eventually disfellowshipped, effectively cutting me off from the only true friends I had ever known, the Witnesses, all 5000 of them (this is about how many I knew by name or face by this time). I am now in a happy and loving relationship with a non-Witness, but my past certainly scarred my life. Despite all this, I bear no grudges against the Society, and am deeply saddened that Jehovah's own reputation is being dragged through the mud through the misconduct of his 'Special People'.
October 7, 2002

Comment: Jayson, come check out my new group! http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape Linda Thoman
October 7, 2002

Comment: To the person who just posted their story this morning, I wanted to say Welcome to Silentlambs. We hear you, and understand the difficulties you've experienced. Many of us have experienced similar things ourselves. Linda Thoman
October 7, 2002

Comment: To anti-John: Those scriptures are found in the BIBLE and they apply to anyone that wants to be decent. IF Bill Bowen is what you say he is, you STILL do not have the right to talk as you do. JOHN has been repeatedly told about his speech. Read back to numerous posts in August and September. He, himself, stated in a recent post that he's aware that he can be banned from the group. Don't mistake patience with acceptance. The words found in the Bible apply to all especially to you and anyone else that is INFLAMATORY. This isn't the place for cussing and brawling.
October 7, 2002

Comment: Fixed some minor glitches such as (" " was ' ") So We had to get that resolved. . . Anyway . . . If there is any more glitches please report them to the webmaster. Thanks, JV
October 7, 2002

Comment: I still can't get 10/1-10/5/02 posts.
October 7, 2002

Comment: The Watchtower has had a history of saying one thing in literature and doing another in practice. This double standard is what has gotten them in trouble. . . . . Hopefully all eyes will be open now.
October 7, 2002

Comment: For those who would like a copy of the posts from October 1 to October 5, contact the webmaster at webmaster@commservco. com and request in subject line "GUEST BOOK". . . . . webmaster
October 7, 2002

Comment: SLC----I tried to go to your group and couldn't find it. Is there a specific page you can go to? To all the new ones welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love,Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 7, 2002

Comment: Hi SLC: You had mentioned a little while back that you would like to hear new ideas and thoughts on the Bible, as you wanted to resolve Bible questions regardless of the source. I found some information I thought you might find helpful and useful in your search for real "truth". ********* 2-KINGDOM CONCEPT -- A Great "Sacred Secret" (Mark 4:11) *************The Bible shows the Kingdom of God that Jesus himself referred to in John 18:36, "which is not of this world", is NOT one and the same with other mentions of "Kingdom", like the "kingdom" mentioned in Daniel 2:44, which crushes "all other kingdoms" upon earth and "it itself stands to time indefinite". Instead the latter is an earthly "kingdom" which exists and acts more as an extension and physical representation of the Grander Heavenly Governmental arrangement or "kingdom" in Heaven. So the Bible teaches us that God actually has two (2) distinct and separate "kingdoms" or governments that he uses to accomplish all of his purposes, of which it is to be understood the earthly arrangement is always subservient to Greater, All-Pervasive Heavenly Governmental arrangement that was promised to Jesus Christ. Here is a simple breakdown of each. **************** 1) The earthly government mentioned above is indeed an earthly "kingdom" or government that actually starts out here on earth, as the "tiniest [smallest] of mustard seeds" from a human standpoint, but grows up to be a powerful EARTHLY GOVERNMENTAL arrangement which eventually engulfs the entire earth. Interestingly, this earthly "kingdom" was foretold to have the most dubious beginning, even something that could be "despised" by man because of its "smallness" -- before God exalts it to earthly greatness. (Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45; Ezekiel 17:22-24; Zechariah 4:10; Mark 4:30-32) This earthly government will be headed up by a mystery figure, unknown to mankind today, and yet vividly described as being the "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3, 45:22 and 46:16,17. He will prove to be a "christian" follower of Jesus Christ and will rule the earth from this new future "temple" arrangement spoken of in Ezekiel chapters 40-48. This EARTHLY government will be eternal and everlasting. (Daniel 7:13, 14, 18) We can be assured of this because of what Ezekiel himself said about that holy city, "The name of the city FROM THAT DAY ON will be Jehovah Himself Is There. " Thus, this "kingdom" or "city" that sits upon a great and lofty Mountain, actually lasts forever. It is God's Earthly Governmental Arrangement. (Ezekiel 40:2; 48:35) ********************* The prophets of old referred to this earthly kingdom many times. For instance, Isaiah and Micah showed it as being "Zion", a lofty mountain, where countless nations willingly "beat their swords into plowshares" and "learn war no more". These individuals literally "stream" to this new earthly governmental arrangement, in the "final part of the days". Daniel referred to it as a "Mountain of Decoration" that Jehovah God protects from the attack of the "King of the North", in the last days. But before this new governmental arrangement can take place, serious issues have to resolved. Godly discipline must come upon earthly "Israel" as God's seat of governmental rule, before the full establishment of this new earthly government. Once established and "Israel" is restored to God's full favor, it then begins its rule over earth everlastingly with God's backing. (Isa. 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Daniel 11:44,45; Isaiah 4:2-6; Micah 4:6,7) ******************* Unbeknowst to JWs and the WTS, this explains why Revelation 5:9, 10 shows this "kingdom" actually rules "UPON THE EARTH", rather than "over the earth", just as the WTS' NWT Kingdom Interlinear Word-for-Word Bible clearly shows. ******************* 2) Of course, this earthly kingdom definitely differs greatly from the "heavenly kingdom" Jesus spoke of and primarily directed his first century christian followers to look to as their "heavenly inheritance". The earthly "kingdom" would always operate UNDERNEATHE the Heavenly Governmental arrangement as a subsidiary or extension of that all-pervasive government in Heaven. This is true at all times. Nevertheless, God's word shows the heavenly governmental arrangement of Jesus, definitely was NOT to last forever or eternally. The particular governmental arrangement that Jesus spoke of clearly existed IN HEAVEN, where Jesus Christ and his associate kings and rulers were to rule in the very presence of the Great August One, Jehovah God. This clearly is a UNIVERSAL RULERSHIP, including all of God's creation, visible or invisible. Its scope covers both heaven and earth, as Jesus said at Matthew 28:18. Jesus was to have "authority" over both "heaven and earth". The Bible shows this "rulership" actually started in the first century starting with Jesus' heavenly resurrection to spirit life and being "declared a Son" in the ultimate sense. (Romans 1:4) Jesus became a "conqueror" at this time. Also, Jesus promised his disciples that they too would become "conquerors" too. And as such, they would join him in that particular heavenly rulership. They would be allowed to "sit upon his throne", just as Jesus had been permitted to "sit upon Jehovah's Throne" in heaven. (Rev. 3:21) ****************** But this kingdom's seat of government was heavenly, not earthly. This is the vital difference. Additionally, this heavenly rulership of Jesus and his followers would prove to be only temporary, and not permanent. Another vital difference. That is, the governmental rule of Jesus where, as it were, he rules from God's Throne, sitting at God's Right Hand would not last forever. It would have definite ending point. It was not meant to last forever. We know because of Paul's words where he stated that Jesus' kingdom must GO BACK TO GOD HIMSELF. Jesus must "hand over" the "kingdom" back to God Almighty. This means at some point, Jesus gives up his heavenly governmental rule, and returns it to his God and His Father, Jehovah. ************ Jesus "turns the kingdom over" to Jehovah, when Jesus has fully accomplished Jehovah's will toward the earth, namely by the complete removal of the effects of adamic death, sin and the complete removal and destruction of all human "governments and authorities" upon earth as "enemies placed under his feet" in subjection. (Hebrews 1:3; 2:8; 1 Cor. 15:24-28) *************Therefore, in retrospect, we see the "kingdom" mentioned in Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45 as being "cut out of a mountain" arrangement that ALREADY EXISTS on earth. I believe this earthly "mountain" arrangement that already exists actually represents the spiritual nation of "Israel" upon earth, in its wayward, apostate state. *************Thus the dramatic scene depicts God's Mighty Hand rescueing the righteous who dwell helplessly in this "apostate"situation, and making a "kingdom" of out of them. In other words, Almighty God selects the appropriate people from that spiritual nation, who would and should make up (according to His Wise estimation) the new earthly "kingdom" arrangement of His choosing, and makes them INTO a "kingdom" where they appropriately rule "upon earth" as Revelation 5:9, 10 foretold. Thus, these individuals proceed from a previously existing EARTHLY arrangement, a "mountain" where Almighty God "cuts" them out to become this magnificent "stone" of authority. And of course, we notice this "kingdom" stone is "cut out without hands", human hands, so we see Jehovah God actually does all of the choosing and selecting of the makeup of this earthly "kingdom" governmental arrangement that eventually engulfs the entire earth, so no mistakes will be made in personnel choice. It will be a perfect, earthly arrangement to God's satisfaction. This is why we can say, the Kingdom that Jesus referred to in John 18:36, "which is not of this world", is not one and the same with the kingdom of Daniel 2:44, which crushes "all other kingdoms" upon earth and "it itself stands to time indefinite". Instead the latter earthly "kingdom" exists and acts more as an extension and physical representation of the Grander Heavenly Governmental arrangement or "kingdom" in Heaven. So the Bible teaches us that God actually has two (2) separate and distinct "kingdoms" or governments that he uses to accomplish all of his purposes, of which it is to be understood the earthly arrangement is always subservient to Greater, All-Pervasive Heavenly Governmental arrangement that was promised to Jesus Christ. *************The Scriptures teach the earthly government can be distinguished from the heavenly one as an earthly "kingdom" or governmental arrangement that actually starts out here on earth, as the "tiniest [smallest] of mustard seeds" from a human standpoint, but grows up to be a powerful EARTHLY GOVERNMENTAL "PLANT" or "stone" which eventually engulfs the entire earth. Interestingly, this earthly "kingdom" was foretold to have the most dubious of beginnings, even something that could be "despised" by man because of its "smallness" -- before God exalts it to its rightful state of earthly greatness. (Daniel 2:44, 45; Ezekiel 17:22-24; Zechariah 4:10; Mark 4:30-32) *************** Unbeknowst to JWs and the WTS, this explains why Revelation 5:9, 10 shows this "kingdom" actually rules "UPON THE EARTH", rather than "over the earth", just as the WTS' NWT Kingdom Interlinear Word-for-Word Bible clearly shows. *********************** Okay, I hope this information is helpful to you. Write me back, and let me know what you (and Bill, Barbara & Joe) think of it, when you have time. Take care. ******** bjc2read@yahoo. com
October 7, 2002

Comment: This website and this guestbook is a place for VICTIMS of Watchtower abuse. It should be a place for victims to complain about injustices suffered and their voices should be heard. This is not a place for ABUSERS. If the abusers want to silence or attack the victims then they already have the forum for that. It’s called the local kingdom hall. Not one word from the broken in spirit validated there. Fake websites fake press releases etc have no place here. So I suggest we all email info@silentlambs. org and webmaster@commservco. com Request that the abusive posts attacking the victims be removed and the offending IP address be blocked.
October 7, 2002

Comment: The Game of Trolling Trolling a game - there is a point to the game, and that point is to win. There are various ways of winning for the internet troll. These might include: · gaining credence for false and invidious ideas · driving victims out of the guestbook · dominating the guestbook with messages/posts that they have generated · distracting victims from their own bona fide discussions or objectives. · gaining attention that they cannot get using their real personalities
October 7, 2002

Comment: Linda, Thanks and congrads on a new "sight. " I applied so I hope to be accepted soon. Tell Ang I got the "gold star. " I have agreed to help those in her situation in any way that I can. To turn your back on a child like that. I hope that "we" are there for the next person in her shoes. What power that victimizers would loose, (will loose), as we all join hands and leave them to themselves. John, as for swearing I know, but to quote John Wayne, "Don't give the "Bastards" the satisfaction. " I will always love ya buddy; I know that you would protect those who are inocent, and those who have had their spirit trampled. Unlike some who need not be spoken of. _-Jay
October 7, 2002

Comment: I thank those who publish literature about the Watchtower. It has helped me break free. I was fooled by there one sided opinions. There is much that the Slave does not want us to know.
October 7, 2002

Comment: None of this talk about trolls means anything. Anyone who like Bill tries to attract followers to themselves for their own glory must be put in their place. His hypocritical stance is to pretend to be the only one who "cares" about abused ones. I've seen the pictures of his so-called appeal and I see the smug look on his face. At least some of us left the organisation with more dignity. He goes around with his smart-ass attitude, thinking he is doing something great when in reality he is merely a tool of satan, a puppet. Anyone who follows Bill B. is SHIT. I don't care how many relatives/elders/MS's or other JW's raped you when you were 7. Don't think I don't care about abused children - I do, more than you know. But those who choose to follow a gutless, fat, stupid C*NT like Bill B. show how truly worthless you are. You DESERVE everything you get. The anti-john.
October 7, 2002

Comment: HTTP Error 403 403. 6 Forbidden: IP address rejected This error is caused when the server has a list of IP addresses that are not allowed to access the site, and the IP address you are using is in this list. Please contact the Web server's administrator if the problem persists. Blah.
October 7, 2002

Comment: HAHA your new guest book sucks as much as you do. Are you happy? Are you proud now you've started your own cult under the leadership of your grand "masterbater", Bill B. ? Gather 'round to take the milk from flaccid Bill B. ! Gather all the lambs to the great circle-jerk!
October 7, 2002

Comment: Comments or complaints contact me at ronpthomson@usa. com Ask me nicely to stop posting here, or tell me what you think of me. Maybe I'll reply, maybe I won't. The anti-john.
October 7, 2002

Comment: although these crimes are truely wrong and awful I believe it's wrong to attach or associate the crimes with the religion. Just as, you would agree, it's wrong to look down upon a whole race if you experienced an awful crime from some of them. There is nothing in the bible that supports such crimes. These things occuring in the org. just proves once again thatimperfect humans are part of the org. . It would be the devils plan to make the congragation look bad and discourage anyone from Jahovah. It's very easy to get dicouraged when you have a bad experience with people in a congragation but your relationship with Jahovah and what was given to us as a guide in the bible is what we as individuals are responsible for and the only thing we have control over is ourselves. Don't let somone elses imperfection keep you from your relationship with Jahovah. If you do you're onlly hurting yourself and accomplishing the devils goals. . to discourage you.
October 7, 2002

Comment: Left the Watchtower back in 1987. Took many years to get my head straight. (That will explain all the sick posters who support the Org. on here). My advice to others. Get out. It's a big fantastic world out there and sorry Governing Body, everything is not black and white like your underware. Later people
October 7, 2002

Comment: Please check out this new group for those with doubts, those who've been df', da'd or just want to share experiences. http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
October 7, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "the disaster of Armageddon, greater than that which befell Sodom and Gomorrah, is at the door. " (1946 Let God Be True)
October 7, 2002

Comment: Hi, just wanted to highlight a discrepancy in the news story regarding Bill. On this particular ocassion, Bill and Kiki were using a stuffed toy lamb, rather than a gerbil as had been reported in the Daily Post. And it is evident that the resulting fire was mostly caused by the flammable nature of the material used in the stuffed toy, and was not entirely due to the effects of intestinal gases, as had been reported. "in him"
October 7, 2002

Comment: To those who blame the governing body for the actions of some of their members - how would you feel if your child committed a crime behind your back, without your consent and everyone blamed you for it? Let the victims of abuse and injustice not become unfair themselves. Speak out by all means - against the abusers, but dont blame all JW's for the actions of a few. My heart goes out to those genuine victims, but not to the apostates who may only be after money. The genuine victims will only suffer more if you go ahead with a class action. user: bioharmony - Askme. com/Religion
October 7, 2002

Comment: May God bless the Lambs and give them solace and victory over their enemies. Especially those still caught in the mind-numbing grip of the borg. May you find the love of the great Shepherd of the dheep, the Lord Jesus Christ. ALWAYS remember, the true God is not found in any "organization" He is nigh you, no matter where you are for He is spirit. The GB and their duped followers are simply a bunch of UNSAVED, LOST religious sinners. Pure and simple.
October 7, 2002

Comment: Keep up the good work. As odious as the fact of sexual abuse is, there is a an even more damaging factor to be considered. People who are enticed into this sick dysfuctional organisation are literally victims of a mind control system. To be required to read and remember their strange religious quackery on a regular cycle of three or more times a week for the duration of your life is imensly damaging to the psychi-these people are actually suffering from instituitionalized depression!!It is indeed abuse of mind boggleing proportion. The real issue is that these people have no voice outside or inside this organisation. This means that they are trapped for their life. Imagine children growing up believing that the end of the world is near- don't worry about an education don't get involved with people from out side the organisation, and then to be told that they must spread "the truth" so that they can recruit more dysfuctionality. . . where does it end!!! Suffer the children indeed. Terry morrison, gold coast Australia.
October 7, 2002

Comment: Thanks JV for continuing to fix the new Guestbook glitches! ----- Welcome to the new reader & lamb from Australia who told her story on 10-7-02! What horrors you have been through. I am so glad you are now experiencing some peace in your life. Love /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: To the 10-8-93 Awake! reader: I concur with what someone else wrote, that what the Society puts in the magazines and has announced from the platform is NOT what is practiced. The elders have a different set of "rules" which they receive via orally from the CO/DO and/or via the BOE letters, many of which can be found on the internet, so you can see for yourself. It's more of the "Do as they say, but not as they do" which Jesus spoke about. And lawsuits by abused lambs is not about money. It's about holding the abuser and the society accountable for their actions. -- If you keep reading and researching the matter, you will see. Take care/SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Hi Jesika! I didn't really create a "group" for the purposes of having a "group. " I merely opened up a yahoogroup account so I could have an Email Address that I could use for public places like this Guestbook and J-W. com, where my email at J-W. com is now "open. " (I never wanted to put my private email on J-W. com, so this works great for that). As "owner" of the "yahoogroup," any emails sent to: My_JW_Stuff-owner@yahoogroups. com are automatically forwarded to my private email. (I like using yahoogroups for such thing rather than just plain yahoo-email. I dunno why!) ;-) I just read your thread about going to Vegas and left a post there. WOWOWOW! Have a great time! Love ya! /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Hi BJC: Yes, thank you for that info, I did receive it via email. I haven't had time to do much "serious" reading, but I have it "saved" in my inbox, and planned to write you a thanks in return. Now that I see you here, I do say THANK YOU! Best/SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: I agree with whoever wrote we should ask for the abusers here to be blocked. I had thought of doing that the other day, but then I remembered reading something Bill wrote at somepoint, somewhere (maybe in the Guestbook months ago), that by letting these posts stand as is, it just shows the visitors what arses (that's my word for them) people can be about exposing the abuse & pedophile situation in the org. --- However, since the troll-posts are becoming more and more vulgar, I think it IS time we all write and say something. Copy the offending posts and put them in your email to silentlambs and the webmaster. And everyone who does so, post back here what webmaster/silentlambs has to say. OK guys? Thanks/SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: I'm sure all of the "honest" people who post here are wise enough NOT to write Ron P. Thompson, the anti-John, who left his addy and asked people to write him. Surely he will just sent you a virus if you write him with your email addy. And he cares about abused children? Hardly. Nobody that talks like he does could possibly care about anybody but themselves. If you care about children so much, why didn't you stand up against the almighty WTS and do something about it? You're just jealous, Mr. Weasle. /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Bioharmony wrote: ". . . don't blame all JW's for the actions of a few. " --- Correction, not "a FEW," but 23,720 "few" who most if not all have been "covered up" at the DIRECTION of the WTS. That's where the blame lies, along with the individual elders who agreed to "pass these things over. " /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Seems we have a lot of JW visitors to the site on 10-7-02!!! Very interesting! It tells us that they ARE at least hearing, even though they are still not "believing. " Give it time. . . /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Someone wrote: "Don't let somone else's imperfection keep you from your relationship with Jahovah. " (That's JEhovah, must have been a typo). Anyway, Jehovah is EVERYWHERE, not just in the KHalls, contrary to what we thought/were told as JWs. Jehovah can be found by ANYONE at ANY TIME. That's the GOOD NEWS. /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Welcome Terry Morrison from Australia. Wow, "GOLD COAST" sounds beautiful! And yes about the high-mind-control training as a JW. "Thinking" is not allowed, not after you are baptised. Anyway, welcome! /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Testing Testing (by SLC) to see if a URL will show up using the quote marks on each side of it such as:
October 8, 2002

Comment: The answer to my above Test is "NO," the URL and email addy did not show up. Hmmmm. . . . wonder why it does that? /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Question for the regulars here: Do you guys like the "bold" font? It kinda hurts my eyeballs after awhile. Just wondering what you others think. Thanks/SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: I also do not care for the bold font. Also, I miss the time-stamps which made it a lot easier to follow threads and jump to certain sections.
October 8, 2002

Comment: To SLC I have to agree with you and Bill about leaving the abusers on this site vs. blocking them. My x's family were Jehovah's Witness and were the biggest hypocrites. Every time these people post it reminds me and I am sure thousands of others that there is no real change of heart in many of the members. I'll bet some of them are elders who did some of the abusing. Right HAHAHA? Which congregation do you oversee? Later everyone Sah
October 8, 2002

Comment: NOTICE: You guys may already know this, but I was just reminded of it: If you have a "Pennysaver" or "Pennypincher" type newspaper in your area, they will print "Public Service Announcements" for FREE. Since silentlambs. org is a non-profit organization, any announcement by us would qualify. Granted, it all depends on how many such PSA's they receive each week as to which ones make it in the paper, but if we submitted one to them every week as a standard practice, that is a great way to get the word out about silentlambs. It could be short and sweet or up to a paragraph. Example -------- SUPPORT GROUP for victims of sexual or domestic abuse. www. silentlambs. org -- #1-877-WT-ABUSE, and/or locally call #1-000-000-0000 (put your own number there. They may be more likely to publish your PSA if a local contact person is listed). --------------- Will you guys offer suggestions: Should we mention the JW religion or just leave it out? If so, how should it be worded exactly? Maybe like: ----- SUPPORT GROUP for victims/survivors of sexual and/or domestic abuse by and for members of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Please visit: www. silentlambs. org. Or call #1-877-WT-ABUSE. Local contact support #1-000-000-0000. --------------- What do you think ladies (& silent rams?) Thanks for your input. /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Yes, I also liked the DATE stamp, and I asked in an earlier post to the Webmaster, but he didn't answer that specific query. Maybe they are working on it. --OR-- maybe we can't have everything, eh? LOL! ;-) /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Hi SAH: Well, it isn't really my PERSONAL choice to leave the abusive comments in. I was merely stating what I remember reading Bill had written. Personally, I'd remove all of them! ;-) --- However, your reasons are valid for leaving them in, and Bill's too. It just gets really depressing to have to read that garbage. Thanks for the comment, though. /SLC -- PS: Were you asking me what congregation I oversee? Or were you referring to the abusive posters? Just in case it was directed to me, I am Silent Lambs Cheerleader, hence of the female gender. ;-)
October 8, 2002

Comment: Hi SLC No not you. I mean the posters like HAHAHA and antiJohn. I have to credit these idiots for reminding me of my x's family. Good Jehovah's Witness at the meeting, drugs, affairs, heavy drinking when away from the Hall. Tell me they really believed. SAH
October 8, 2002

Comment: Brain Teaser: During the first few centuries of the last millenium, approximately 900,000 Christians were massacred, according to a WT magazine of 9-1-51. Then in the 1-15-52 WT's Questions from Readers, someone wrote in asking : "How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ's body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?" --- Good question, eh? (My comment: If 900,000 were martyred in those early years, surely the entire number of 144,000 would have been "used up" way back then). So how did the WT reply to the Question from Reader? See the WT's answer here & get ready for your brain to be teased. ;-) /SLC ----- http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38198&page=1&site=3#518633
October 8, 2002

Comment: Hi SAH! Duh! Sometimes I'm a little slow! ;-) Thanks for the clarification. --- I was a single sis in the cong, so didn't get to "mingle" much with the Elder Crowd. Most of the "married folks" hung out together. I knew they had "football parties" at certain homes to watch the games on TV, etc. I'm sure they got a little rowdy 'cuz I would hear them talking about it at meetings. But overall I was never privy to much of the real dirt. Getting an earful these days, though! (via internet). LOL! /SLC
October 8, 2002

Comment: Thanks Jay for the compliment on the new group. I've got lots of new pages added already and more to come! Trolls and abusive people will be banned, no problem. SLC, come check us out! http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape Linda Thoman
October 8, 2002

Comment: Last wk I met a lady in the Superstore. I knew her from the time I was JW. She tried to avoid me butI took courage and aproached her. It turned out that she was disfellowshipped and very disapointed with the " friends" and the Organization. She was DSFL because she was asking questions. She was abused while in the Borg since tender age. I will ask her to share her experiences with us on this site. She is going to sue the WT. Her family was ruined. Hers husband a JW was cheating on her and married another women. Her son commited suiside last year by hanging himself with a bed sheet on a tree right beside the local hospital. The note he left behind indicated great unhapiness in his life.
October 8, 2002

Comment: Question: What does Borg stand for? I think part of it is Organization but I am not sure of what the B stands for.
October 8, 2002

Comment: "Borg" refers to a fictional race of cyBORGs, cyBernetic ORGanisms, (part machine/part human or other species) that are the recurring "Bad Guys" in the newest incarnations of the Star Trek TV series' and movies. Their goal is to "convert" all unique species into Borg drones. Their motto: "You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile"
October 8, 2002

Comment: EVERYONE, I noticed the web hosting for this site is DONATED. I would assume that the technical expertise is also donated. What does that mean? Well, in the real world I have to pay $125-$175 an hour to have my technical difficulties handled. So I’ll bet someone fixed the guestbook for FREE. Yes, the site might still have some bugs however; it takes someone’s hard earned knowledge and time to correct them. So everyone please stop complaining and just thank the webmaster for the improvements. I’m sure he’ll solve problems IF he has the time, but we certainly have no right to demand anything. Let's appreciate the time he has donated. Nancy Naranjo
October 8, 2002

Comment: What happened to this guestbook? This guestbook used to be cool. Now it's totally gay.
October 8, 2002

Comment: http://www. geocities. com/osarsif/bethsarim3. htm
October 8, 2002

Comment: Nancy N - Yes, advice the society has given elders in the matter of child abuse is appalling. Has anyone tried an appeal to their disfellowshipping or whatever else? The society appoints a another committee to look into the matter, however, they, themselves do not sit in to act in an unbiased and scripturally and publication-aly educated manner. If the appointed committee reaches the same conclusion -- ignoring reasonable and logical evidence -- one doesn't have another place to go and the society won't bother with it anymore. At this point, one is told to wait on Jehovah and he'll straighten it out. I just can't see Moses or King Solomon handling the differences between their people in such a manner. Can you? They RESOLVED issues between their people, brothers. This current system doesn't RESOLVE anything and only leaves injured people around. If one objects to THIS method of handling differences, the FIRST QUESTION is: Don't you trust in Jehovah to take care of this matter? I don't believe that is the issue. I don't believe Jehovah God wants people walking around mentally and emotionally (even physically) wounded waiting for him to step in. It's my opinion that when matters fall into Jehovah's hands that he isn't going to be happy because he'll know that we didn't respect him and his instructions to go about quickly resolving issues between us. Resolving issues doesn't mean that the victim or injured party needs to carry wounds around. It means that their wounds have been "cleaned and dressed and kissed" TO AID IN THE HEALING PROCESS. I see no healing, love, trust, AFFECTION -- I only see very, very HURT PEOPLE who haven't been reassured of God's love and the congregation's love. People who haven't had care and affection. People left alone to either bleed to death or to stop bleeding on their own, so to speak. Healing can take place in such circumstances but NOT WITH JOY AND LOVE. The pain NEVER goes away. I don't believe that's the kind of resolution to issues among us Jehovah God wants. It's not representative of a compassionate and loving God that has affection for his people.
October 8, 2002

Comment: If you are "infected" by the borg in the fanasy world of Star Trek you no longer have your own personality. "You service US" I. e. The borg collective. They add whatever worthwhile traits that you have to their own in a delusional attempt to achive "perfection. " They cling to that old the creed that they are the most "perfect" race of living beings ever to exist. You can exist around them and not be part of the hive if you are not percived as a threat or a prize. As a threat if you stand against them then, you are distroyed. (However it is amazing what happens when people work together to resist. ) They have great abilities to adapt/overwhelm to/the offensive or defensive abilities of others they are admerabile as much as they are scary. The real comparasion to the WT and the GB is that the "slaves" in the WT are totally expendible as are the "borg drones" in the star trek saga. The "drones" do as they are commanded as do the "slaves. " Once infected "drones" work to infect other people including fellow individuals, friends, and family that do not want to be assimilated. Most important "will" is overwhelmed and they serve a master that has total control over them. To move against the hierarchy in any way = death. Again compaire to the WT and the slave class. There are comparisons except it is really giving the WTBS way to much undeserved credit and power. They are but like a fly comapaired to a cobra in abilities, (compared to the borg). At best they are "borgish. " For some with an open mind could/should see the common threads without being either insulted or terrified of the Jehovah's Witnesses ideology. I'm not.
October 8, 2002

Comment: Oh, sorry, did I mess up your guest book ? Well, too bad. Ron P. Thomson (alias The Anti- John) is here to stay. I will continue to post THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BILL. http://www. bill. bowen. isgay. com
October 8, 2002

Comment: Hi Ron P Thompson(Anti-John) You truly must be one of the stupidist persons to sit at a computer. A half brick is much more dangerous than a full brick. What that means Ron is that if you throw a half a brick it will travel farther than if you throw a full brick. The same goes for a half lie vs. a full lie. A half lie/half truth will travel farther than your overwhelming Bill stories. Your so far out in left field that you even a Jehovah's Witness would be ashamed to be associated with you. So keep going with your big stories from your little mind and you will be our daily entertainment. Someone has to play the fool.
October 8, 2002

Comment: The "borg" is just about any organization and, even, relationship that's ever been know by humans. That includes marriage, too. Why should the humans in the Watchtower be any different from all other humans? They, too, have to sort through all the "borg" stuff the WORLD MAKES SOCIETY BELIEVE AND LIVE to get to the truth from Jehovah God the same as anyone else. Do we expect them to be DIFFERENT? I do. It's very disappointing to find people that are intellectually enlightened that still exercise in some things, agreed serious things, the BORG OF THE WORLD'S THINKING AND METHOD OF HANDLING THINGS. Each individual person, no matter who they are or what position they hold, has a very difficult time SEEING that it is THEY who are having a BORG MOMENT in their mind in some matters -- that THEY'RE carrying on wrong thinking and need to change THEIR mind and actions over. Life's tough and most people don't get past the physical necessities to figure out and understand that their MIND and HEART needs to be fed, revised, adjusted and that it's a constant thing so that they can get more and more of the WORLD'S BORG OUT OF THEM -- even JWs!
October 8, 2002

Comment: AP: BILL BOWEN LAUNCHES NEW WEB SITE! Bill Bowen, administrator of the popular silentlambs. org web site devoted to JW abuse issues has just launched a new web site for JW's and EX-JW's - you can find it at www. silentmasterbaters. org. Bill Bowen said today: "lambs, there is no need to struggle with your masterbation problem alone! Now you can talk to other masterbaters on the all- new guest book". In related news, Bill Bowen also revealed today that he is gay. [the anti-john]
October 8, 2002

Comment: Keep those e-mails coming, folks. The anti-john. ronpthomson@usa. com
October 8, 2002

Comment: hey linda thoman, can I join your watchtower excape group? I already excaped but I thought it might be fun. p. s. your spelling is almost as bad as johns. Excape, indeed. Or was that just a (clever?) play on words ? The anti-john.
October 8, 2002

Comment: Left the society in 1993 after reading the book by James Penton. Never looked back.
October 8, 2002

Comment: Just got done looking at the pictures of the march! Right On everyone. You were representing the thousands that could not make it such as me. Just remember. ONLY PRISONS HAVE WATCHTOWERS
October 8, 2002

Comment: . .
October 8, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "If the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century[the year 2001?], which is highly impobable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War 1 generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that 'the conclusion of the system of things' is moving fast toward its end. " (WT Oct 15 1980 31)
October 8, 2002

Comment: Ron . . . . . Since you are going to be a regular poster I would like to welcome you to the silentlambs website. I noticed you mentioned you had also been abused. I hope you receive counseling or other help to overcome your difficulties. Although I find your ridiculous newspaper articles highly offensive I must admit that they are well written and humorous. Maybe sharing your misery here will bring you peace. Sincerely Nancy Naranjo
October 8, 2002

Comment: Ron, I asked RJ and now I ask you, "What do you want?" "How can I help?" I would rather not have you as an enemy. The people who are called the "governing body" put forward very bad opinions as biblical/dogma law about how to handle very henious crimes. Many elders take their appointing like a ruthless lord. (Not everyone) Some seem to have the mentality keep the peace at any and all costs. Inocence be damned. These who did, these men who were co-abusers by proxy are just as accountable. (Maybe more so) I assume that you do not approve of the rape of children (or anyone) I assume that you are not in favor of the beating of women and children. I hope that I am not singing to a bag of jelly beans. It seems that accept by a court of (real) law these men will not be held accountable. They have caused the divison here, not bill, the anderson's, the lambs, me, or you. Unless you belive these men divine they are just plain old men. And as men they are acountable for their actions and the words (policy/doctrine/dogma) that they put forward. To cover up that which you do, to lie about it, to refuse to accept responsibility makes you unbelivable and there for not respectable. (of ill character) JW's as they learn what are the facts of the WT they will not be pleased. I don't know if this is the end of the road for the WTBS. They are in control of that. (maybe) But if they can not face their actions; Then a lie can only fool or intimidate for so long. Propaganda in a black form is always temporary. When propaganda as leadership fails it is sudden; Where and when we do not know. I wonder how many families and how many kids, wives, husbands, and friends would not have to suffer if the GB/WT would just mind thier own bee's wax. -Jayson
October 8, 2002

Comment: Bethel offices have issued directives in accordance with the contents of the Oct 8 1993 Awake! published by the governing body of JW's worldwide. Nowhere do any of those letters say "Obstruct police investigations" or "be silent and dont report abuse to the authorities" It is only referring to how the elders must deal with pedophiles who may have offended many years before they became Jehovah's witnesses. The local elders are not the long arm of the law with respect to illegal immigrants either. Im sure many reading this would be glad of that. But if a complaint comes up or there is a police investigation they must co operate in accordance with Romans 13:1-4. Also the question of clergy/laity or doctor/patient confidentiality comes into it. But rightly elders should advise offenders to fess up. However if in Court a judge orders an elder in thw witness box to tell the whole truth, then Romans 13:1-4 applies.
October 9, 2002

Comment: Well i've been reading through alot of different comments no doubt there are many different opinions too. However one thing we all agree on is child molesters are bad. No doubt anyone who hates Jehovah's Witnesses will grasp at anything to try and rubbish the good people in the truth. There are a couple of things i'd like to clarify 1/ Some people have stated that they would or have been disfellowed shiped for going to police about child molesters that can not be true no one is disfellowshipped for that. disfellowshipping is for unrepentent wrong doers. It is a last resort used by the Elders if all consell has failed. 2/ The society to the best of my knowledge has never ever said children or parents can't go to the police. 3/ Parents are ultimatly responsible for there children and bare responsiblity for there childs welfare not the elders. 4/ personally i think all these child molesters and homosexuals should all be wiped from the face of this earth, however after learning about love and forgiveness i know that we must forgive also. And that is why some child molestors have been accepted back into a congregation if they have sincerly repented. This is what God has told us to do. The only reason i can come up with as to why some elders have tried to cover child molestion up is perhaps there was some nepitizm infolved . This of course doesn't make it right . And certainly does bring reproach upon Jehovah's name. Titus1:16
October 9, 2002

Comment: Silent Lambs press release 9/19/02 Quoting a letter sent from Bethel to all congregations in the UK: "Our position is that the secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin. To avoid a miscarriage of justice elders must not interfere with, prevent or impede any secular investigation into child abuse. They must ensure that secular laws are adhered to. (Romans 13:1) To that end they are instructed to contact the legal dept. at Bethel whenever they receive information from even one person that child abuse has occcurred. When a report is received guidance is given by the legal dept to ensure that 1. The alledged victim and other potential victims are protected from possible abuse 2. The counsel is given to report crime to the proper authorities and comply with any additional legal requirements. " This is totally contrary to the claims made by others on this Guestbook that instructions given to elders in letters are different to those in the Oct 8 1993 Awake! Mr Bowen raises the question that the above recommendations do not occur in the the same letter sent to US congregations. An error of omission, a typeset error, someone forgot to Save those sentences when putting the data into the main computer - whatever reason there is no possible just cause to deliberately omit those words in the US letter and include them in the UK. Im sure all of is here have made similar msitakes. To err is human, to forgive divine, to make an issue out of an honest mistake is unreasonable.
October 9, 2002

Comment: EXCELLENT OBSERVATION from a post on 10-5-02; 12:10:18; which read: ----- "I figured this out a long time ago and I believe it's true -- they (elders) like to let each one of us feel as though we're the only one having a problem (no matter what the problem is) and make us feel isolated from all the rest. That, in itself, changes our behavior and we isolate ourselves because we believe (for lack of compassionate caring and clarifying) that we're the only ones with the problem, too. This helps to sweep unpleasant matters under the rug. " -------- That is so true. Not sure why they think that way. It could be due to the SECRETIVE NATURE which elders are supposedly sworn to, i. e. , to not tell what the bros/sis tell them. When a person has a problem and feels NO ONE ELSE has the same problem (I remember that feeling MANY times during the 11 years as a JW), it is so true what the above person wrote, it changes your behavior and makes you feel like there's something wrong with you and you alone. What needs to be done is revamp the entire atmosphere of congregations and make them OPEN, i. e. , have OPENLY-KNOWN support circles/groups for, say, single parents, or divorced ones, or single sisters, etc. But instead, they have always "FROWNED" on any such "SOCIAL" gatherings saying instead, GO OUT IN SERVICE MORE. So you go go go go out in service, but you still feel ALONE WITH YOUR PROBLEM. NOT a good atmosphere, not at all. Here's hoping they wise up and change things for the uplifting of spirits of all concerned. /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: BTW, THANKS to the WEBMASTER for getting those OCTOBER 1-5, 2002, POSTS up!!! The link to them is now CLEARLY SHOWING UP on the GUESTBOOK PAGE. Hurray! & Thanks again! /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: Hi Linda! I promise to get over to your site and sign up soon. I did "stop by briefly" but I couldn't find my MSN passport info, which is on a piece of paper around here somewhere (drowning in little pieces of papers!) I was able to see your "main page," though, and Wow! You definitely have a lot of links up there already! You've been working very hard on it, I see! Great job!! Hugs/SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: That is SO SAD about the young son who hanged himself with the bedsheet! I hope you can help your DF'd friend. Suicide is no joke. Been deadly-close to it myself several times, earlier years and then when all the abuse issues came out early in the last decade. It's a miracle I'm still here. Thankfully, all is so much better and I never feel that way anymore. That boy must have been in DARK DESPAIR, which is a really BAD place to be. Personally, I think it's DESPAIR that causes suicides. I'm so sorry for that lady. /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: Seems we have another "blind" JW Defender Visitor, who also doesn't have the courtesy to use a handle (give himself a code name) so that I may properly address that person: That person wrote: ----- "1/ Some people have stated that they would or have been disfellowedshiped for going to police about child molesters that can not be true no one is disfellowshipped for that. " ---- Sheesh! Where have you been? With your head in the sand? That is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS and HAS HAPPENED OVER & OVER, when an abused lamb wants to warn others in the cong of the pervert who is still IN the cong, they have been told over and over they will be DISFELLOWSHIPPED IF THEY TALK ABOUT IT TO THE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE CONG. ---- Sir, you have no idea what you are talking about. Rose Colored Glasses you wear. /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: Someone wrote: --- " However if in Court a judge orders an elder in thw witness box to tell the whole truth, then Romans 13:1-4 applies. " ----- Well, we all know it is SUPPOSED to apply, but what is done in REALITY is NOT WHAT YOU SAY. The elders will LIE LIE LIE and use the "excuse" that it is THEOCRATICE WARFARE. Go read all of the information on the BOER v. WTS case that was just heard in CANADA. Those elders on the witness stand lied through their teeth. /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: PLEASE DON"T BE SO IGNORANT about CHILD MOLESTERS! PLEASE! --- Someone wrote: --- "And that is why some child molestors have been accepted back into a congregation if they have sincerly repented. " --- A child molester CANNOT SINCERELY REPENT. They CAN PRETEND to be "repentent," but THEY WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT CONTINUE THEIR PERVERSIONS. Please go EDUCATE YOURSELF on the subject of molesters/pedophiles/abusers before writing such NAIVE information. You only make yourself look foolish. There are links on this site (go to the home page), and/or just do a search on the internet. READ & LEARN & then come back and say something intelligent and we might believe you then. /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: Looks like we have Bro. Sainthood Elder here, who wrote: " to make an issue out of an honest mistake is unreasonable. " ----- Gimme a break. Since WHEN does the WTS make TYPOS? And to make an issue out of CHILD ABUSE POLICY INSTRUCTIONS IS MOST REASONABLE. --- Also, what the WTS PRINTS in BOE's, magazines, KM's, etc. is for PUBLIC CONSUMPTIONS (whitewashed), and NOT WHAT ELDERS ARE VERBALLY TOLD by CO/DO's in the SECRET elder meetings after assemblies/conventions and when the CO/DO's have the secret little meetings at the KHalls. They are SO GUILTY, and they KNOW IT, that they NOW tell elders: Hear What We Are Saying, but DO NOT TAKE NOTES. Elders cannot even write down the "dirty work" instructions being given VERBALLY at the training schools and other "secret" meetings for elders only. They are not allowed to bring tape recorders, they cannot bring cell phones, etc. WHY IS THAT? Because the WTS DOES NOT WANT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING VERBALLY to be IN PRINT ANYWHERE, not even in an elder's own handwriting on a piece of paper. WISE UP FELLA! (or lady, whoever you anonymous people are). /SLC
October 9, 2002

Comment: The elders and the organization are both liars. You can tell about the organization by all the big claims through out their 120 years history and then the coverups. This group represents Jehovah??? I think not. Ron
October 9, 2002

Comment: To the person who quoted the unverifiable statistics about the WT pedophile register - 27000 represents 0. 5% of the total of 6,000,000 JW's or 1/200 JW's. The ugly statistics on pedophilia world wide - 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys will be sexually abused by the age of 18. That means in effect with the average no of children per family being 3 that 25% of the general population are pedophiles! Hence to say that JW's have the largest number of pedophiles in the community is simply untrue. And that's if the unverifiable number - 27000 is correct. Satan's world is a seething cesspool of debauchery and degradation. Of the 27000 only a relatively small number would be convicted pedophiles as the register has the name of anyone who has had a complaint made against- even if only by one person. bioharmony
October 9, 2002

Comment: What's all this BS about theocratic warfare and lying in Court?? Theocratic warfare is a fight not against the courts, police and secular rulers but against WICKED SPIRIT FORCES. Ephesians 5:10-12. Court transcripts can be wrong. I know first hand as I was in court years ago with a Statutary Declaration and the transcript of the words were nothing like what was read out off that document !! One witness actually evaded a question and both the Q and A were omitted (they had not been order to be omitted as the other side's lawyer did not object).
October 9, 2002

Comment: Why not an honest mistake - a typo error? Perhaps you can come up with a reason why it would be deliberate????? Im glad Im not nmarried to you - if you cant see an honest mistake hitting you between the eyes you would eb very hard to live with! By the way Im not Bro Elder - I am a woman and I was sexually abused as a child, NOT by a JW, even though I had been in the truth since I was 7. It was an outsider - a swimming instructor.
October 9, 2002

Comment: testing
October 9, 2002

Comment: For reference the 27k molesters that are going out to people's homes without any warning from the WT. That is the statistic from the U. S. Candada and Europe. That is not the statistic for the WOrld wIde JW popualtion. You qouted the whole population and came up with . 5% of the population. A small number, yes. Smaller than the national average of 1% by half. Of course we are also discussing how those cases are being handled or swept under the rug. (Is the porogitive to protect the relgion or the people) True the people who elect to go to the police may not be DF'ed for proptecting themselves and everyone else. No, they are disfellowshipped for "causing division. " OR, some other trumped up charge. But, the underling factor is that they broke the unwritten code of do not go outside the inner circle. 'Do not think for yourself about what is justice. ' (Those are my opinions) Now back to statistics, if you take the 27k number of molesters that are in fact given a haven in the wt rarely given to such creatures in any society and factor for one or two million members you get quite a different number as high as 2% of the popluation of jw's. That is double the national average. Do the statistics for yourself. Some will peddle bullshit and try to spin the facts. Others will look at numbers and try to prove their point but, the numbers do not lie. Do it for yourself; And, there are not 5 or 6 million recorded jw's in the US, Canada, and Europe. That there are somewhere up to to 2% of the population of them that are preditors is again reasonable by national statistics and by the wt's own records. They do wish to keep this private and that is in the favor of the criminal not the person wronged. The big mistake is the the name WTBS is not the name of God. One does not bring "reproch" upon God by protecting society from criminals. One brings "reproach" by allowing evil to spread ramped. -Jayson
October 9, 2002

Comment: I have been a JW since 1986, have been active and in-active over the years, been married and not married also. And I have seen what good elders can do and what bad ones have done, up close and personal. Being a single mother with a heavenly hope, 'they' come after you and your children like you have a target on your back. They, in God's name will lie, intimindate, or whatever it is in their means to distroy my relationship with Jehovah. I have tried hiding from them, changing congregations, marrying outside of the congregation so they have to go thru my husband to get to me, I have Matthew 18ed congregation overseers, ended up in the hospital for stress related illnesses, etc. I have lost faith in men not Jehovah. As far as the organization goes, even the governing body legally separated its self from the organization. In Daniel 11:31 and Matthew 24:15, the 'disgusting thing' standing in the holy place refers to those bad elders. And in Luke 16:15, Jesus refers to the 'elders' of his day as a 'disgusting thing' in his Father's sight. I, personally like to refer to them as hypocrites just as Jesus did in Matthew 23. Please don't lose faith in Jehovah because of men. I beleive His promises written in the Bible and I beleive Him. You don't need a hall to beleive or worship Jehovah, He is everywhere!!! And all that call on him will be saved(Acts 2:21)in these end times. Agape.
October 9, 2002

Comment: Hi, My 40 year old sister has been a Jehovahs Witness since 1986. We grew up with sexual abuse at the hands of my moms husband. None of which were JW's. But I think the way JW's reperesented themselves as one big happy family seemed to appeal to her. I was studying with them at the same time as she was and red flags came up when I saw how controlling they were appearing to me. I question EVERYTHING. I never take anything at face value that I am told and they didn't seem too happy with that. It caused alot of division between my younger sister and myself. We were always so close. She seemd to have some scriptures memorized to answer alot of questions to support their beliefs. But, even after all these years If I ask her about a scripture that seems to contradict some of what she has ben told she will stammer and not seem familair with it and say,"let me talk to an elder and i'll get back to you. Then she would call me back and say "No, that isn't so". as thouh she just took his word for it and didn't really do any research herself. My sister is a very kind person and I have met some really nice JW's. I'm sure that would never harm a child. She says how they ahve a loving small congregation in her small town. Well, that may be so and I'm glad for her. But, that doesn't erase or negate the other congregations where it may be happening and being covered up. I plan to print out some of the victims stories. I don't know what she will think of it. I'm not doing it to attack her organisaztion. We both swore years ago that we would never remain silent about children being abused. As a rule she tends to pooh-pooh any negative thing said about JW's. She almost looks smug aabout it as though that's just further proof that they are being persecuted as the true church. I have always thought it was a little more self righteousness then true humility. I don't even know if she will read any of the information. Maybe she will since she is also paronoid someone will try and hurt her little girl after the way we grew up. But, that would be the only thing that would inspire her to read any of it. Personally, no organization tells me what to read or do. Although I am careful to try and read articles of substance. I mean I don't read romance novels or porno. Not that romance novels are bad. I used to like them as a teen. I WILL however look into allegations as serious as child abuse or other important issues. Or if an accusation has been made against my church. Our church knows this about me and they encourage us all the time to "prove all things". Not to just accept what they or anyone else has to say about the scriptures without checking it out themselves, and praying on it. God won't leave you floundering in darkness. And you don't need any group to tell you what he has to say on it. Yes, I go to church. I love the people there. However, I follow no group or man. Only God. Then I don't worry about being lead down the wrong path. I DO look into things and read the Bible and pray and see what God is telling me in his word about it. Sometimes all it takes even is just the good sense he gave us to know the difference between what is real and false. I'll let you know what she has to say about the literature I give her about the victimes stories. Sincerely, Windy
October 9, 2002

Comment: I don't understand. Why do people waiste their time posting "Attacking" material when in all people who read this just skip on and don't give a crap what or who. They are here for the purpose this website brings. Not to listen to some punk who thinks he can bring down the owner of this site . . . Sue me :) -JJV
October 9, 2002

Comment: JJV- If you are new here then welcome. You will not need a lawyer with me young lad/laddy. It is hard to understand the postering that goes on. But it does and will continue. (Unfortunaly) There is much anger here. Many JW's feel that anything that shows them as less than obtaining the perfect strikes at the real heart of the issue. That if they are not special as a religon then they might be just plain ordinary. If they are not the "divine truth" then think of all the needless suffering that goes on. So anger is better than doubt. Attacking is a better defense for flawed character that wants to maintain the status quo then to admit fault take responsibility and make good on the harm that has been done. I have a 4 year old. If he messes up and says he is sorry that does not always make it ok. There are consequences for actions taken. It is my opinion that rather than working on true forgiveness the JW's allow thier elders to pardon people or not. That has little to do with forgiveness as forgiving is an internal act. Pardoning is an external act done by one with either authority or power to do so. Talking about such things as forgiveness Vs. pardons chips away at an authority personalities power base. Thus the slander. namecalling. yadayadayada. . . But in order to help these people sometimes some of us have to stand on the bridge and say "no one may pass. "-Jayson
October 9, 2002

Comment: Just testing
October 9, 2002

Comment: I was shocked to read an article about the dateline show and even more so when I read all this on silentlambs. org. I too was raped by a member of the congregation and was interogated by the elders chosen to investigate the incident. They basically blamed me for the entire thing, I was 12 at the time, but as I got older began to understand better. The man who did this was reprimanded and they even found out he had done this to several other girls. However, our entire family was shunned from that point on and we ended up moving out of town because of this. J. W. was our life and that came to a screeching halt. I got out of the religion as soon as I was able and I would never go back. They are hypocritical and very wrong. I have somewhat gotten over what happened to me but I will never forget.
October 9, 2002

Comment: Anti-John, No to your first question. . . and correct on the comment about my cleverness. Windy, welcome to the guestbook. Linda Thoman
October 9, 2002

Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/nowwhat. msnw
October 9, 2002

Comment: Bioharmony……I think Jayson answered you pretty clearly on the 23,720 pedophiles on record. But I would like to add----there are less than 2,000,000 witnesses in USA, Canada and Western Europe. The largest percentage of JW’s are women I’m guessing only 40% or less are men. According the US Dept of Justice 94% of all abusers are men. Most pedophiles have multiple victims. Dateline covered the story of Fitzwater who had abused 17 witness children. The Australian news show covered the story of a witness who had abused 40 children in various congregations. Now multiply the 23,720 pedophiles by the average number of victims---I'll use a low figure how about 12? Equals 284,640 VICTIMS!!! OUR innocent little children. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM???????
October 9, 2002

Comment: Dear lady who was raped at 12. I am so sorry, so very sorry not only for the abuse but also for the way you were treated. I unfortunately do understand very clearly what it is like to be treated that way. I know what it feels like to have the rapist in the same hall and hear him comment. I remember the sound like a screech on a chalkboard. I know the desire to run, to think you can not stand to be there another minute. I know the confusion and the terrible hurt and finally the anger. I know the betrayal by the elders--that they would support him and not you the INNOCENT victim. I know. . . Maybe calling that lawyer will help. . . Kimberlee D. Norris attorney at law kdnorris@airmail. net 817. 335. 2800 314 Main St Suite 300
October 9, 2002

Comment: hi all i'm watching. . . alot of good stuff. . . slc;; good idea about the penny pincher i have to go there next week. . . they for years made flyers for my pizza store. . . they know me. . i will ask them. . . funny theres a slow guy there . . . i would always talk to him. . you know give him my order. . . well guess what he got sucked up by the wt. . . worked him over on time in the street, with 2 elders. . . wait till i get them to print about the silent lambs. . . think i will play with him at the penny pincher. . in front of all the other workers. . sure he tried to convert them. . . this will be fun. . slc please e mail me so i say the right thing when i go there. . . love john
October 9, 2002

Comment: Wroug, there are over 6 million witnesses world wide. I. E. 6,000,000 in the world.
October 9, 2002

Comment: What does a truly repentant pedophile look like????? What does a truly repentant pedophile look like that deserves forgiveness??????? Although, we cannot read hearts we can interpet action as to acts of repentance. ********any man who calls himself a "christian" and touches a child is in a league all by himself. ******any pedophile who calls himself a christian and isn't broken to the heart, cut to the core, and doesn't show acts of repentance equal (as if that were possible)to the disgusting thing he did THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE FORGIVE THEM??? 70X7 was about insults NOT CRIMES and certainly NOT CRIMES AGAINST A CHILD in our PROTECTION. ******There is nothing in God's word that makes a mockery out of forgiveness. And if a pedophile does not show acts of repentant evident to the victim then there is no cause to forgive. A repentant pedophile wouldn't want or need the support of the congregation - he would want that congregation to support and help the victim. That would be an act of repentance worthy of forgiveness. I have not heard one story yet that describes such a situation - have you????? A mind that is so warped that his christian conscience would not prevent him from touching a child in the first place doesn't have a christian conscience at all. And there is nothing else that can save him. All the forgiveness in the world won't save him - only cut to the heart repentance will. And that is up to him.
October 9, 2002

Comment: Linda Thoman I think you are not nice for refusing to let me into your Watchtower Excape. You are shunning me and I don't like that. the anti-john.
October 9, 2002

Comment: JJV, you are an idiot. You talk about some punk who thinks he can bring down the owner of this site. Well, guess what? I can, and I will. Biding my time, for now. The anti-john.
October 9, 2002

Comment: I must say I strongly agree with the very insightful comments posted above about pedophiles. The facts are clear: 1. Pedophiles DO NOT HAVE a conscience, and never will. 2. Pedophiles are utterly selfish to the core, such a person CAN NOT reform, nor can there be any redemption for them. Not even God can save them. 3. A pedophile who has abused even just one child forfeits ALL rights as a human being. But, I think we need to be extremely clear on our definition of a pedophile. Pedophile registers are all well and good, but often include, for example, a man who touched up a 15 year old girl (with consent), hardly in the same league as preying on school age children. As for the real, bona fide, dyed-in-the-wool pedophiles, my preferred course of action would be immediate castration. I'm sure the parents of the victims would feel the same way. Once again, it also comes down to the burden of proof. There must be CLEAR evidence, not just repressed memories. RPT.
October 9, 2002

Comment: To: Subject: Sorry, your membership application was denied for Watchtower Excape, an MSN Group. Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:21:08 -0700 We're sorry, the anti-john. Your application for membership in Watchtower Excape was denied by the group's manager. » Could this be a mistake? If you think your application was denied by mistake, you can apply again. When you fill out the application, be sure to type a message explaining why you want to join. The group manager has the right to allow or deny membership. » What else can I do? Search for other groups to join or create a group of your own.
October 9, 2002

Comment: Nice try Anti-John, but no dice. Funny sin