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October 2002 Guestbook - Page 2
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Comment: YAY IT WORKS!!! w00 h00!!! go me . . err something
October 5, 2002
Comment: This is a test to see if your guestbook is working. The new
security has been updated, OUT WITH OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW!
October 5, 2002
Comment: Guest Book Test
October 5, 2002
Comment: This is a truly noble effort. Although I am an atheist, I would
like to offer you my best wishes to you in your battle against those
who enforce ignorance upon others and to those who have suffered that
they'll find happiness one day. I'm am thoroughly disgusted with the
acts of the JW, and needless to say they're worse than the Christian
Depiction of Satan. By the way, it would be helpful too to pinpoint JW
communities around the globe so that others will be aware of the possibility
of the existence of a pedophile in the local community.
October 5, 2002
Comment: CONGRATULATIONS on breaking up the months of August & Sept. & October
in the Guestbook! Is that you who I think it might be working on this???
:-) THANK YOU, if it is You. If it's someone else, well, thank them
Too! :-) ------- QUESTION, though: Where are all the posts from 1st of
October through NOW? I posted a lot of posts last night (Friday 10-4-02)
and the night before that, etc. I am hoping/assuming you are still working
on this OCTOBER Section? and that all the posts from 10-1 through 10-5
will be added back in here soon? ----------------- ONE MORE QUESTION
while I've got your attention: I don't see a SCROLL BAR on the right
side of the OCTOBER Guestbook Page. Is that under construction also?
--------------- YES, YAHOO, & THANKS TO YOU & GOOD FOR YOU, like
you wrote in your funny messages at the top of the October page, dated
10-5-02. WE APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!!! ----- And Hi Everybody Else, too!
/SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: HELLO WEBMASTER: Got another question: I notice there is no
"CLEAR MESSAGE" button on this "COMMENT" page/window
area. SO when I came back to write a second message, I had to manually
"highlight" all the previous copy that was in this window
from my first message, and then delete it, before I could write this
second message. Will you be adding a "CLEAR MESSAGE" button
to the "COMMENT PAGE" area? THANK YOU!!! (Also, I DID see
the scroll bar on the October Message Page once I submitted my message.
My goof!) /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: WEBMASTER: I notice when I use QUOTATION MARKS around a word,
they show up as slashes on each side of the word rather than Quotation
Marks. Is that something that can be fixed? THANK YOU! LOVE WHAT YOU
ARE DOING FOR THE SILENTLAMB WEB PAGE & GUESTBOOK!!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: OK, I didn't describe that exactly right in the above post.
The QUOTE MARKS DO show up, but IN ADDITION, there are slash marks //
on each side of whichever word with Quotes. I guess that is no big deal
really. --------- But I sure do HOPE HOPE HOPE all the messages from
October 1 through October 5, 2002, WILL BE ADDED BACK IN HERE??? (I looked
at the September Messages to see if they were at the bottom of that, but
they are not). Do you have them in storage somewhere until you have time
to put them here in the OCTOBER page? THANK YOU!!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: ONE LAST QUESTION, and I will shut up for now. I DON'T SEE
A TIME-OF-DAY for each post, but only the DATE. Will the TIME OF DAY
of each post/feature be added back in? Sometimes we have to use that
in order to differentiate who we are replying to, for the posters who
do not use their names or give a name. Then we reply to them by saying,
"To No Name who Posted on 10-6-02 @ 3:40 AM" -- see what
I mean? ----- THANK YOU !!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: HI AGAIN WEBMASTER: ONE MORE THING I NOTICED, if you don't
mind me asking: As of late Friday night 10-4-02, the prior "Most
Recent" Guestbook page (which included everything from Part II-August
6th clear thru 10-4-02) had a total of 2. 6 MBs on that one page. -----
Now that the months are broken up, the figures are showing up like this:
August Part II has a total of 1. 3 MBs; and Sept. has 736 KBs. Therefore,
MISSING are a TOTAL of 564 KBs worth-of-posts from October 1 through
October 5th. WILL YOU PLEASE look around your office & and see if
your can find our missing 564 KBs of OCTOBER posts??? ;-) THANK YOU!!!
/SLC ----- (Also, if this is WHO I think it is working on the Guestbook:
Please let me know WHEN I can tell the others WHO you are so they can
THANK YOU ALSO! My lips are zipped until you give the OK. )
October 6, 2002
Comment: Very informative. One wonders who you can trust anymore. There
seems to be nowhere left that a predator can't go. . . What better
way into a flock than to dress a wolf in sheep's clothing. . . . . There is
no sanctuary left in this world, so very, very sad. . . .
October 6, 2002
Comment: I want to read other postings today
October 6, 2002
Comment: After watching the Sunday program I can only congratulate your
excellent work with this website. I did not experience abuse from this
religious order, however, the elders of this order took away a very fine
and beautiful gentleman from my family. They are a poor excuse for human
beings.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Here is an essay that looks at the child abuse issue from Jehovah's
viewpoint. http://www. e-watchman. com/essays/justice_silentlambs/justice_silentlambs. htm
October 6, 2002
Comment: For those of you who are interested, there is a new msn group
for anyone who is contemplating leaving the org, those who have been
df'd or da'd, or simply want a small setting to make and meet new friends.
This is not to take away from any other groups around, just to give another
option and this one is smaller than many others. http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
Linda Thoman
October 6, 2002
Comment: Webmaster: THANK YOU for the new guestbook forum. . . . . every
endeavor takes time and I know this took a lot of yours.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, yes there are some differences in the way this new
guest book operates. Number one, it is most assuredly higher security
now. The first posts of October can be seen as you enter the Guest book
button from the first page and before you click on view or add a post
look all the way down the links to October 02 Part 1. Here you will find
the first part of October already archived away from this current book.
I have noticed the syntax problems within the add message part of and
have no immediate fix for that except to ask you not to use hyphens so
they wont show up in your messages for now. I will look into this. In
Him Webmaster
October 6, 2002
Comment: is it not possible to enter without writing a message?
October 6, 2002
Comment: This is great! I went back to January 2002 posts to see if
there was a difference in the tone of the posts. I did this a couple
of days ago and yes the posts were much more to the subject and deep.
The security here was needed. Thank you for keeping this a safe place.
I can't image how much work this involved. Love, Claudine
October 6, 2002
Comment: Dear Webmaster: Thanks for checking in and answering our Qs!
If I am following your instructions correctly, the first page I see (without
clicking on "view" or "add a post") is this,
and I do not see any October 02, Part 1. The list of months ends with
Sept. 02, Part 1. ----- Here's what that page shows on my computer:
-------------------------------------- We'd like to know what you think
about our web site. Please leave your comments in this public guest book
so we can share your thoughts with other visitors. --- Add to Current
Guest Book, View Current Guest Book, Past Months Here: March, April,
May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January,
February, March, April, May 02 Part 1, May 02 Part 2, June 02 Part 1,
June 02 Part 2, July 02 Part 1, July 02 Part 2, August 02 Part 1, August
02 Part 2, September 02 Part 1, 2002 -------- Copyright © 2002 by
silentlambs. org- All rights reserved. Revised: 05 Oct 2002 21:32:47 -0700
. ----------------------------------------- And that's all there is on
this page, no October Part 1. Is it my computer or is anyone else out
there seeing it this way? Thanks for any info. . SLC --------------------------
Mr. Webmaster had written: The first posts of October can be seen as
you enter the Guest book button from the first page and before you click
on view or add a post look all the way down the links to October 02 Part
1. Here you will find the first part of October already archived away
from this current book.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, Dear Guestbook visitors, If you see less than October
Part one, then you either need to restart your computer or REFRESH your
page, you are not seeing the most current page. The most current page
of the guest book entry has October the first five days archived at the
bottom of it. I have had several immature persons e mail me with virus
attempts recently. This will not stop me and only firms up my faith in
what I am helping with on Silentlambs. It is a very sad thing that so
much hate gets reflected out from some. God is not about Hate, God is
Love. . . . . . . Webmaster
October 6, 2002
Comment: I've refreshed the web page. I deleted all temporary Internet
files. I still can't find October 1-4, 2002. ???
October 6, 2002
Comment: I'm sorry, too, that there is so much hatred expressed. However,
there isn't a lot of sympathy for victims, even outside of the organization.
It's a sickness that is pervasive everywhere. People perceive victims
as weak and, therefore, deserving of their victimization. Therefore,
it's understandable that their is hatred and blaming of victims - even
by people who should know better and who should know better than Jehovah's
Witnesses. Yet, in spite of all their Bible reading and excellent articles
on this subject, they keep giving in to a very common, ingrained hatred
and fear of victims. Yes, fear - if they need to admit there is victimization
then they need to admit to having wrong thinking or that they, too, have
been victimizers. Everyone likes to think they are upright and honorable
and they have a lot of difficulty in seeing let alone admitting to having
done wrong. Unfortunately, the lack of sympathy stems from CENTURIES
of brutality. There is a fear of admitting to weakness or or having been
taken advantage of. That fear is loss of respect from others, loss of
employment, and, worse, fear of being victimized even more. Getting these
ingrained tendencies turned around is not an easy task. Refusing to see
that one or others - even an organization - has such ingrained wrong
tendencies and thinking is not unusual. It takes one or others to do
UNusual thinking and examination to see and understand the issues - even
for people who know the true God, Jehovah. Remember, in the entire ancient
Israelite nation, only 7,000 were serving Jehovah faithfully - and HE
NOTICED THEM. This is not an excuse. It's a sad statement against those
who refuse to adjust themselves to the scriptural guidelines of God's
love. They tread on very thin ice in Jehovah God's eyes. That is very
scary - for them. So scary that I, for one, would not ridicule or complain
against or even be glad for their downfall because it is THAT SERIOUS
before Jehovah God.
October 6, 2002
Comment: hi
October 6, 2002
Comment: Still can't find October, last archive is Sept 02. . . no matter
how many times I have gone and come back. *************************Good
thoughts about how bad things are everywhere - one thing I noticed years
ago is that when you have been a victim and you go to court you must
prove how much the offender has ruined your life. It isn't enough that
a crime has been committed against you, but you have to prove how much
damage this has caused to your life. You have to prove that what you
lost was a lot And then like you say everyone hates you if it has caused
you to appear "weak". . . . the victim is damned one way or the
other. ****There is contempt for the victim. . . geeezzz magee. They are
blamed for getting themselves into it, and if that doesn't hold true
because it is a child, then they's better get over it. . . or there is
something deficent in them. The world is sick, we do need God's Kingdom
and we do need to pray for those walking on the thin ice as hard as that
is to do and it is very hard to do. Love, Claudine
October 6, 2002
Comment: VIDEO of Silentlambs MARCH -- Here's another site where you
can watch the Silentlambs March of 9-27-02. This one is in Real Player.
There are two parts of it up already (17 min. each), and two more forthcoming:
http://www. dannyhaszard. com/brooklynmarch. htm ------------- I'm going
there now as my computer wouldn't work at the other site which used
Windows Media Player. Enjoy!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: PS: Refreshing isn't making the Oct. archived posts show up
on my Mac. I use I. E. v. 5. 1. 5 for Mac, if that makes any difference?
------ That's really pitiful the way those people send viruses to the
webmaster for this site. What drives people to act that way, I do not
get it. -- I got a weird email yesterday addressed to the addy I created
to use on the other forum, so it had to come from someone who saw it
there. And it had some attachment but I did not open it, sent it straight
to the trash. It had a nonsensical subject line, so I knew it was bogus.
And it came from someone named: starsfan50. So Beware! Love/SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: Hey Gang, here's the addy I created for public guestbook/forums/etc. -FYI:
My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com
October 6, 2002
Comment: This is SLC's message. I tried using the "Name" feature
at the comment window, so that's why I didn't sign my name at the end
of the comment, but my name didn't show up once it posted. So anyway,
here it is again. . . My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com
October 6, 2002
Comment: Please forgive me! I guess I'm too tired and not thinking
straight! THE CORRECT ADDRESS for SLC is HERE (Ignore the ones above,
please, as I forgot to add the word: owner, in them)! CORRECT: My_JW_Stuff-OWNER@yahoogroups. com
----- Thanks for your patience! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, this is a "test" of the guestbook. In
Him
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, it looks like the syntax issues are solved. Thanks
for your patience. In Him Webmaster. . . . . .
October 6, 2002
Comment: I went to www. silentlambs. com and www. silentlambs. org and,
in both cases, I still cannot get Oct. 1 through 4 postings.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Hi
October 6, 2002
Comment: AP: BILL BOWEN ARRESTED! Bill Bowen, administrator of the silentlambs
web site is in police custody tonight after being caught doing unspeakable
things to stuffed toys. A staff member at silent lambs said "I couldn't
beleive it. I walked into the store-room and there he was, naked from
the waist down, indulging in some wierd sexual fetish! It was then I
realised why all the lambs had large holes in the back of them!" The
stuffed toys, which are sold by the hundreds, were analysed and found
to contain traces of Bill's masturbatory emissions. The "abused
lambs" were too traumatised to make any comments today.
October 6, 2002
Comment: This new guest book is pretty gay. why don't my name show up?
And no more web links to click on. Maybe you just want to keep people
from finding out the real truth about bill. Also some of my posts have
been deleted. I don't see how the security is better. Why don't you block
out those great big long posts that idiots keep posting ? It takes ages
to load the damn page. And the font is too small. blah.
October 6, 2002
Comment: yes I think the guest book has been a roaring success! Another
grand victory for the silent lambs! I think I will go masturbate now.
B. Bowen.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Who are the other 4 alleged GB molesters? Has it made the media
yet?
October 6, 2002
Comment: Whoever wrote: "And the font is too small. blah. " -----
All you have to do is go to your browser's menu bar under View, and drop
down to TEXT ZOOM, and you have total control over the size of the fonts
on ANY webpage. --- Now say "THANK YOU" like a good little
troll and run along (maybe spend some time learning your computer instead
of writing vulgar comments. ) /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: "When the wicked ones sprout as the vegetation, and all
the practicers of what is hurtful blossom forth, It is that they may
be annihilated forever. " (Ps. 92:7-NWT) ------------------------- "When
the wicked ones SPROUT as TROLLS, and all the practicers of what is HURTFUL
blossom forth by posting their vulgar UGLINESS all OVER the Guestbook,
It is that they may be annihilated from posting forever. " (Ps. 92:7-SLC
version)
October 6, 2002
Comment: What is a troll? The term "troll" can mean a number
of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to
have 'pleasure' at your expense. If you find his posts about Bill Bowen
upsetting rest assured THAT was his intention. He is a person who is
psychologically disturbed, and seeks to feel good by making other guestbook
members feel bad. His post make this pretty obvious. He is filled with
hate but he is ill, too. He is a sort of "psycho troll", whose
deception involves deceiving himself as well as others. He probably believes
he is serving God or at least the governing body. In this respect, he
is no different to the sorts of people we meet in everyday life who are
disturbed - some of them are easy to spot, and others aren't. However,
in the real world it is easier to avoid this animal.
October 6, 2002
Comment: I saw the "Sunday" program in Australia yesterday
- it was excellent! The comment about "Waiting on Jehovah" is
all the advice the victims ever get. Well, Dear Governing Body, the Waiting
is OVER and jehovah will execute his vengeance on you all!
October 6, 2002
Comment: I was part of the Jehovah's Witnesses about 6 years ago. This
religion has broken my immediate family apart, my sister was sexually
abused, possibly by her father (not a JW but was involved with the 7th
Day'ers) and I now have no contact with them and haven't for around 2
1/2 years. I was totally shocked when I read the articles on this website,directed
to it by a recent report on TV here in Australia. My heart goes out to
everyone who has suffered!!
October 6, 2002
Comment: thank you web master for bringing some sort of good here. .
i will look foward to supporting the lambs. and not having to fight with
the jw's here . . . it will work out. . . hi to all the girls. . if they throw
me off. . i will be with all in my heart. . love to all i'm still doing
my part. . . . john
October 6, 2002
Comment: i still see noname mary jane posting. . with his crap!!!!webmaster
if you want me to be polite. . please remove this garbage. . or i will
respond . . if you dump me so be it. . . john
October 6, 2002
Comment: Dear Webmaster, The guestbook is wonderful. The print is easier
for me to read. I'm sure there are bugs to work out but we are grateful
to have your help. Thanks!!!
October 6, 2002
Comment: I would jut like to say that I am sadened by these outragous
allegations against the JW church. It's about time a legal investergation
was carried out by American law enforcement officals which saw the home
office raided noly then will the true severity of this problem be known.
My heart and tears go out to all those who have suffered at the hands
of this criminals, and there protectors. johnalan@totalise. co. uk
October 6, 2002
Comment: Hey john, go play on the freeway or something. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002
Comment: And you, SLC - misquoting the bible, shame on you. Now run
along like a good little troll. I think I hear bill calling you. The
anti-john.
October 6, 2002
Comment: "Let fornication and uncleanness of EVERY SORT or greediness
NOT EVEN BE MENTIONED amoung YOU, just as it befits holy people; neither
shameful conduct nor foolish talking nor obscene jesting, things which
are not becoming, but rather the giving of thanks" (Ephesians 5:3,4)
Just how does this disgusting talk about Bill Bowen fit into the mind
and heart and MOUTH of a true Christian? If some or all here are so terrible,
how is your speech going to help them to be recovered? What kind of a
person, Christian, are you? I think a DEPLORABLE ONE - the reason people
will speak abusively about the true Christians. "However, there
also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be
false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive
sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy
destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts
of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be
spoken of abusively. " (2 Peter 2:1,2) These words are talking about
YOU, pig mouth!
October 6, 2002
Comment: Well i must say its an interesting site i am a practicing Jehovah's
Witness and certainly do not condone any sort of child molesters . i
must say i am truely sorry to any vitims if they have not been looked
after and it the allegations are true it certainly does reflect badly
on the organization. Having said that however i thing i do disagree with
is that some say we can't be reformed Jehovah's organization is constantly
being reformed and if Elders are guilty of not reporting these crimes
then i hope the society will take the appropriate action. Only 3 weeks
ago a letter was read out in our congregation clearly stating that victums
certainly have every right to go to the approprite authorities. i've been
in the truth about 18 years now been in about 5 congregations and in
only 1 have i seen any case of child molesting obviosly thats 1 too many
however i know that this person certainly was not protected and as far
as i know when people found out about him had nothing to do with him
even though he has not been reproved at the time how ever he is now disfellowshipped
and hopefully the authoritys will have been notified of his actions.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Oct 05, 2002 . . . Suit targets Jehovah's Witnesses Benton complaint
about sex abuse and church policy is said to be the first of hundreds
across the U. S. By Jennifer Rouse Mid-Valley Sunday One excerpt:Time
passed, and Davidow didn't see anything being done, either to help her
son or to discipline the offender. She continued to ask the elders what
they were doing about the issue, the lawsuit says. Eventually, she contacted
the elders at the North Corvallis congregation, where the alleged abuser
and his mother were members. "The elders of (Corvallis congregation)
instructed her to 'stop talking about it, we've got it handled,'" the
lawsuit states. When Cathy Davidow finally reported her son's abuse to
the police, she was disfellowshipped. Tyler was not disfellowshipped
but chose to leave the faith on his own. http://www. midvalleysunday. com/display/inn_local/news02. txt
October 6, 2002
Comment: FYI: Some of the people who administer the site have reported
receiving viruses by e-mail. I would like to point out that most viruses
are sent unintentionally (ie. a person receives a virus in e-mail and
as soon as they open it, the virus e-mails itself to everyone in their
address book) Please do not assume that you are being personally targeted.
There are some very prolific viruses spreading at the current time. Go
to the antivirus research center at http:www. symantec. com and look
up the details on the new viruses that are spreading like wildfire at
the moment. It is unlikely that someone could target you deliberately
unless they had access to virus source code. prof
October 6, 2002
Comment: I have a fleshly sister who is also supposed to be a spiritual
sister that is vile and foul-mouthed and likes to write such derogatory
things. She doesn't see the inappropriateness of her conduct and speech.
When people react, rightly, indignant at her, she thinks it's FUNNY.
The foul-mouthed, disrespectful and arrogant person posting here could
very well be her. I wouldn't put it past her. She's been known for using
phoney names and different email addresses to harass others. I have nothing
to do with her. There's no doubt in my mind that she's a sicko. Yet,
she "knows the right people" and seems to always get away with
her deplorable behavior. However, Jehovah God sees her and hears her
and he knows the WHOLE STORY. You see, he's not just HER witness, he's
OUR witness, too. He knows it ALL. Trying to lie to Jehovah God is the
stupidist thing anyone can do. Yet, when people don't accept responsibility
for their actions and try to cover them up, that's exactly what they're
doing. When elders make an accounting for those in their care, they need
to remember that Jehovah God doesn't care that they're elders. He cares
how they treated his sheep. If they're liears, they're liars - elder
or not. Same goes for my insane sister. I agree, such a person is psycho
sick.
October 6, 2002
Comment: To the "pig mouth" person and the other comments
about foul speech: I AM NOT A JW. And since when do you make the rules
for me? And how about telling john to tone down his foul speech and threatening
posts. Sorry, I forgot. He's not speaking against your precious lambs.
And what about Bill ? I think he's a pretty big hypocrite considering
what I read about him on this web site: http://www. bill. bowen. isgay. com
Foul speech is one thing, but that's just disgusting. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002
Comment: hey ask your sister for me how can I get a fake e-mail addy
October 6, 2002
Comment: Really i mean come on , I cant work out what you peole are
talking about. I dont think you even know what you are talking about.
The fact is that these people need to be punished for such inhuman acts
and in time they will be.
October 7, 2002
Comment: "I Put My Sex Abuse Dad in Prison. " is the title
of a two-page article about Alison in the "Real Life" Section
of the November 2002 issue (pgs. 20-21) of the UK's most popular teen
magazine, "Sugar. " The below link will take you to the scanned
copy of the article. Alison, as you know, is the young lady who was featured
on the BBC's Panorama show regarding the JW sex abuse in the UK. -----------------
Please Write a thank you to the editor and/or reporter for this article.
I think it's a great idea to put a story like this in a Teen magazine
so other young ladies will know what to do should anything similar ever
happen to them. Good job Sugar Magazine and Alison! ------------ You
may also write Alison herself, as she posted this here in our Guestbook
in July after the BBC program. Thanks! /SLC ------------ Hi. I am Alison
Cousins who you will have heard about in the BBC program, if any person
would like to write to me about the program or give me there comments
please feel free to do so. My email address is: SANDYCOUSINS@HOTMAIL. COM
Looking forward to hearing from you. Good Luck and God Bless, Bill.
October 7, 2002
Comment: HERE's the LINK to the above article about Alison: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=37985&page=1&site=3#516899
----------- And Here's the email addy for "Sugar" teen Magazine:
websugar@hf-uk. com -------------- It seems you cannot put those little
pointer/quote marks on each side of the URL nor on Email Addy's, because
if you do, then they do not show up in your post here. ---- We're learning
new rules for how this new G-book works! ;-) /SLC
October 7, 2002
Comment: I have just read the Oct 8 1993 Awake! and I see no endorsement
for obstructing police or telling abused children to remain silent. To
the contrary the article encourges children to tell their parents and
the parents to believe them even if the abuser is the other parent! The
reason given is that kids do not have the resources adults have. Be careful
about going ahead with a class action as everyone knows when money is
involved the truth is never told. Here in Australia a class action against
a sport coach was dismissed because the allegation were proved false
and based solely on greed and wanting money by the alledged victims.
So suing the org. when they have openly in that Awake! encouraged victims
to speak out and parents to take action will only lead to more sorrow
for the victims. When individual elders take it upon themselves even
to defy the scriptural injunction about respect for the law (Romans 13:
1-4) then the organisation is clearly not liable when they have advised
otherwise.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Oct. 7
October 7, 2002
Comment: I was both fascinated and horrified by the material in this
website,about a third of which I have examined in the past few hours.
It is now listed with my "favourites". I was brought up in
the "Truth" and have now been disfellowshipped for four yrs.
I was sexually abused by my father from the time I was brought home from
the hospital until the abuse was reported when I was six. My parents
separated at this time, divorced when I was eight, and my father was
killed in a hit and run accident when I turned nine. I continued to be
molested by non-Witnesses, until at thirteen (with only a year or so
abuse-free), my mother finally met and moved in with a Ministerial Servant
in a neighbouring Congregation. In full knowledge of my past, he continued
where the others had left off, at a time (puberty) when my mind and body
were at complete war with one another. . . . My body finally awakening to
the sensations, while my mind was screaming NO! this is wrong. With my
background, for a while, I almost accepted the situation as being 'normal',
even 'natural' behaviour on his part, and as such offered no resistance,
even tacitly encouraging Him. The only thought that soon prevented this
was remembering all the scriptures in Leviticus about the 'wrongness'
of 'laying bare the nakedness' of close family members, and the consequences
of doing so. The situation was eventually uncovered, when he accused
me of sleeping around, and even tried to pin blame on my own brother
(falsely). I had remained silent mostly because I felt my mother was
finally happy again, and didn't want to jeopardize her happiness. But
after all this, I eventually screamed: "It was you!" at Him,
and Mum just happened to overhear. He then tried to lay all the blame
on me, claiming that I instigated every act, tried to touch him sexually
(a thought that repulsed me as he was almost 70), and that I belonged
in a home for wayward girls. When the matter was brought before the Elders,
I was the one viewed darkly, and felt to be a threat to other males in
the congregation. On a personal level He even had the audacity to tell
the principal of a school that Mum tried to enroll me in that 'I could
not be trusted around any males'. Had the matter not been reported to
the secular authorities, I have no idea what would have happened. He
and Mum were both disfellowshipped from the congregation, but for living
together unmarried, not due to the abuse. I tried to get my life together
(after my older brothers took over my care), but in 1994, after finally
discovering what a true loving relationship was like, and finding it
impossible to remain alone, (and having been publicly reproved from the
platform for my resulting conduct) decided to skip the country, and try
to make a 'fresh start' with a 'clean slate' in South Africa, where no-one
would know anything about me, or my past, other than what I shared with
them (which I did, a little too freely). I eventually met and married
one of my romantic interests, the only way I felt I could return to the
Congregation without feeling like an absolute hypocrite. In 1996 (after
having had my handbag taken at knife point by a 'local'),I brought my
new husband home to Adelaide and in order to prove that I was truly prepared
to 'let bygones be bygones', we even stayed in Mum and her now Husband's
home. There was some attempt to get my husband interested in 'the Truth',
unfortunately knowing my history, he was little impressed that both Mum
and Partner had been not only re-instated in the Congregation, but were
even permitted to hold a Book-Study in their own home. Not to mention
that my own brother (now an Elder himself) greeted my arrival with "You
know you are never going to get away with this", after two years
or more of not having had any communication with me. I had privileges
taken from me in the Congregation belatedly for my misconduct prior to
my marriage, but eventually after many months regained my standing in
the congregation. Finally after three-and-a-half years of marriage, my
relationship fell apart, and my husband and I separated. When I eventually
took up with someone outside the Congregation (and before things got
too out of hand), I was reproved, and eventually disfellowshipped, effectively
cutting me off from the only true friends I had ever known, the Witnesses,
all 5000 of them (this is about how many I knew by name or face by this
time). I am now in a happy and loving relationship with a non-Witness,
but my past certainly scarred my life. Despite all this, I bear no grudges
against the Society, and am deeply saddened that Jehovah's own reputation
is being dragged through the mud through the misconduct of his 'Special
People'.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Jayson, come check out my new group! http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
Linda Thoman
October 7, 2002
Comment: To the person who just posted their story this morning, I wanted
to say Welcome to Silentlambs. We hear you, and understand the difficulties
you've experienced. Many of us have experienced similar things ourselves.
Linda Thoman
October 7, 2002
Comment: To anti-John: Those scriptures are found in the BIBLE and they
apply to anyone that wants to be decent. IF Bill Bowen is what you say
he is, you STILL do not have the right to talk as you do. JOHN has been
repeatedly told about his speech. Read back to numerous posts in August
and September. He, himself, stated in a recent post that he's aware that
he can be banned from the group. Don't mistake patience with acceptance.
The words found in the Bible apply to all especially to you and anyone
else that is INFLAMATORY. This isn't the place for cussing and brawling.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Fixed some minor glitches such as (" " was ' ")
So We had to get that resolved. . . Anyway . . . If there is any more glitches
please report them to the webmaster. Thanks, JV
October 7, 2002
Comment: I still can't get 10/1-10/5/02 posts.
October 7, 2002
Comment: The Watchtower has had a history of saying one thing in literature
and doing another in practice. This double standard is what has gotten
them in trouble. . . . . Hopefully all eyes will be open now.
October 7, 2002
Comment: For those who would like a copy of the posts from October 1
to October 5, contact the webmaster at webmaster@commservco. com and request
in subject line "GUEST BOOK". . . . . webmaster
October 7, 2002
Comment: SLC----I tried to go to your group and couldn't find it. Is
there a specific page you can go to? To all the new ones welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love,Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 7, 2002
Comment: Hi SLC: You had mentioned a little while back that you would
like to hear new ideas and thoughts on the Bible, as you wanted to resolve
Bible questions regardless of the source. I found some information I
thought you might find helpful and useful in your search for real "truth".
********* 2-KINGDOM CONCEPT -- A Great "Sacred Secret" (Mark
4:11) *************The Bible shows the Kingdom of God that Jesus himself
referred to in John 18:36, "which is not of this world", is
NOT one and the same with other mentions of "Kingdom", like
the "kingdom" mentioned in Daniel 2:44, which crushes "all
other kingdoms" upon earth and "it itself stands to time indefinite".
Instead the latter is an earthly "kingdom" which exists and
acts more as an extension and physical representation of the Grander
Heavenly Governmental arrangement or "kingdom" in Heaven. So
the Bible teaches us that God actually has two (2) distinct and separate "kingdoms" or
governments that he uses to accomplish all of his purposes, of which
it is to be understood the earthly arrangement is always subservient
to Greater, All-Pervasive Heavenly Governmental arrangement that was
promised to Jesus Christ. Here is a simple breakdown of each. ****************
1) The earthly government mentioned above is indeed an earthly "kingdom" or
government that actually starts out here on earth, as the "tiniest
[smallest] of mustard seeds" from a human standpoint, but grows
up to be a powerful EARTHLY GOVERNMENTAL arrangement which eventually
engulfs the entire earth. Interestingly, this earthly "kingdom" was
foretold to have the most dubious beginning, even something that could
be "despised" by man because of its "smallness" --
before God exalts it to earthly greatness. (Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45;
Ezekiel 17:22-24; Zechariah 4:10; Mark 4:30-32) This earthly government
will be headed up by a mystery figure, unknown to mankind today, and
yet vividly described as being the "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3,
45:22 and 46:16,17. He will prove to be a "christian" follower
of Jesus Christ and will rule the earth from this new future "temple" arrangement
spoken of in Ezekiel chapters 40-48. This EARTHLY government will be
eternal and everlasting. (Daniel 7:13, 14, 18) We can be assured of this
because of what Ezekiel himself said about that holy city, "The
name of the city FROM THAT DAY ON will be Jehovah Himself Is There. " Thus,
this "kingdom" or "city" that sits upon a great and
lofty Mountain, actually lasts forever. It is God's Earthly Governmental
Arrangement. (Ezekiel 40:2; 48:35) ********************* The prophets
of old referred to this earthly kingdom many times. For instance, Isaiah
and Micah showed it as being "Zion", a lofty mountain, where
countless nations willingly "beat their swords into plowshares" and "learn
war no more". These individuals literally "stream" to
this new earthly governmental arrangement, in the "final part of
the days". Daniel referred to it as a "Mountain of Decoration" that
Jehovah God protects from the attack of the "King of the North",
in the last days. But before this new governmental arrangement can take
place, serious issues have to resolved. Godly discipline must come upon
earthly "Israel" as God's seat of governmental rule, before
the full establishment of this new earthly government. Once established
and "Israel" is restored to God's full favor, it then begins
its rule over earth everlastingly with God's backing. (Isa. 2:2-4; Micah
4:1-4; Daniel 11:44,45; Isaiah 4:2-6; Micah 4:6,7) *******************
Unbeknowst to JWs and the WTS, this explains why Revelation 5:9, 10 shows
this "kingdom" actually rules "UPON THE EARTH", rather
than "over the earth", just as the WTS' NWT Kingdom Interlinear
Word-for-Word Bible clearly shows. ******************* 2) Of course,
this earthly kingdom definitely differs greatly from the "heavenly
kingdom" Jesus spoke of and primarily directed his first century
christian followers to look to as their "heavenly inheritance".
The earthly "kingdom" would always operate UNDERNEATHE the
Heavenly Governmental arrangement as a subsidiary or extension of that
all-pervasive government in Heaven. This is true at all times. Nevertheless,
God's word shows the heavenly governmental arrangement of Jesus, definitely
was NOT to last forever or eternally. The particular governmental arrangement
that Jesus spoke of clearly existed IN HEAVEN, where Jesus Christ and
his associate kings and rulers were to rule in the very presence of the
Great August One, Jehovah God. This clearly is a UNIVERSAL RULERSHIP,
including all of God's creation, visible or invisible. Its scope covers
both heaven and earth, as Jesus said at Matthew 28:18. Jesus was to have "authority" over
both "heaven and earth". The Bible shows this "rulership" actually
started in the first century starting with Jesus' heavenly resurrection
to spirit life and being "declared a Son" in the ultimate sense.
(Romans 1:4) Jesus became a "conqueror" at this time. Also,
Jesus promised his disciples that they too would become "conquerors" too.
And as such, they would join him in that particular heavenly rulership.
They would be allowed to "sit upon his throne", just as Jesus
had been permitted to "sit upon Jehovah's Throne" in heaven.
(Rev. 3:21) ****************** But this kingdom's seat of government
was heavenly, not earthly. This is the vital difference. Additionally,
this heavenly rulership of Jesus and his followers would prove to be
only temporary, and not permanent. Another vital difference. That is,
the governmental rule of Jesus where, as it were, he rules from God's
Throne, sitting at God's Right Hand would not last forever. It would
have definite ending point. It was not meant to last forever. We know
because of Paul's words where he stated that Jesus' kingdom must GO BACK
TO GOD HIMSELF. Jesus must "hand over" the "kingdom" back
to God Almighty. This means at some point, Jesus gives up his heavenly
governmental rule, and returns it to his God and His Father, Jehovah. ************
Jesus "turns the kingdom over" to Jehovah, when Jesus has fully
accomplished Jehovah's will toward the earth, namely by the complete
removal of the effects of adamic death, sin and the complete removal
and destruction of all human "governments and authorities" upon
earth as "enemies placed under his feet" in subjection. (Hebrews
1:3; 2:8; 1 Cor. 15:24-28) *************Therefore, in retrospect, we
see the "kingdom" mentioned in Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45 as being "cut
out of a mountain" arrangement that ALREADY EXISTS on earth. I believe
this earthly "mountain" arrangement that already exists actually
represents the spiritual nation of "Israel" upon earth, in
its wayward, apostate state. *************Thus the dramatic scene depicts
God's Mighty Hand rescueing the righteous who dwell helplessly in this "apostate"situation,
and making a "kingdom" of out of them. In other words, Almighty
God selects the appropriate people from that spiritual nation, who would
and should make up (according to His Wise estimation) the new earthly "kingdom" arrangement
of His choosing, and makes them INTO a "kingdom" where they
appropriately rule "upon earth" as Revelation 5:9, 10 foretold.
Thus, these individuals proceed from a previously existing EARTHLY arrangement,
a "mountain" where Almighty God "cuts" them out to
become this magnificent "stone" of authority. And of course,
we notice this "kingdom" stone is "cut out without hands",
human hands, so we see Jehovah God actually does all of the choosing
and selecting of the makeup of this earthly "kingdom" governmental
arrangement that eventually engulfs the entire earth, so no mistakes
will be made in personnel choice. It will be a perfect, earthly arrangement
to God's satisfaction. This is why we can say, the Kingdom that Jesus
referred to in John 18:36, "which is not of this world", is
not one and the same with the kingdom of Daniel 2:44, which crushes "all
other kingdoms" upon earth and "it itself stands to time indefinite".
Instead the latter earthly "kingdom" exists and acts more as
an extension and physical representation of the Grander Heavenly Governmental
arrangement or "kingdom" in Heaven. So the Bible teaches us
that God actually has two (2) separate and distinct "kingdoms" or
governments that he uses to accomplish all of his purposes, of which
it is to be understood the earthly arrangement is always subservient
to Greater, All-Pervasive Heavenly Governmental arrangement that was
promised to Jesus Christ. *************The Scriptures teach the earthly
government can be distinguished from the heavenly one as an earthly "kingdom" or
governmental arrangement that actually starts out here on earth, as the "tiniest
[smallest] of mustard seeds" from a human standpoint, but grows
up to be a powerful EARTHLY GOVERNMENTAL "PLANT" or "stone" which
eventually engulfs the entire earth. Interestingly, this earthly "kingdom" was
foretold to have the most dubious of beginnings, even something that
could be "despised" by man because of its "smallness" --
before God exalts it to its rightful state of earthly greatness. (Daniel
2:44, 45; Ezekiel 17:22-24; Zechariah 4:10; Mark 4:30-32) ***************
Unbeknowst to JWs and the WTS, this explains why Revelation 5:9, 10 shows
this "kingdom" actually rules "UPON THE EARTH", rather
than "over the earth", just as the WTS' NWT Kingdom Interlinear
Word-for-Word Bible clearly shows. *********************** Okay, I hope
this information is helpful to you. Write me back, and let me know what
you (and Bill, Barbara & Joe) think of it, when you have time. Take
care. ******** bjc2read@yahoo. com
October 7, 2002
Comment: This website and this guestbook is a place for VICTIMS of Watchtower
abuse. It should be a place for victims to complain about injustices
suffered and their voices should be heard. This is not a place for ABUSERS.
If the abusers want to silence or attack the victims then they already
have the forum for that. It’s called the local kingdom hall. Not
one word from the broken in spirit validated there. Fake websites fake
press releases etc have no place here. So I suggest we all email info@silentlambs. org
and webmaster@commservco. com Request that the abusive posts attacking
the victims be removed and the offending IP address be blocked.
October 7, 2002
Comment: The Game of Trolling Trolling a game - there is a point to
the game, and that point is to win. There are various ways of winning
for the internet troll. These might include: · gaining credence
for false and invidious ideas · driving victims out of the guestbook · dominating
the guestbook with messages/posts that they have generated · distracting
victims from their own bona fide discussions or objectives. · gaining
attention that they cannot get using their real personalities
October 7, 2002
Comment: Linda, Thanks and congrads on a new "sight. " I applied
so I hope to be accepted soon. Tell Ang I got the "gold star. " I
have agreed to help those in her situation in any way that I can. To
turn your back on a child like that. I hope that "we" are there
for the next person in her shoes. What power that victimizers would loose,
(will loose), as we all join hands and leave them to themselves. John,
as for swearing I know, but to quote John Wayne, "Don't give the "Bastards" the
satisfaction. " I will always love ya buddy; I know that you would
protect those who are inocent, and those who have had their spirit trampled.
Unlike some who need not be spoken of. _-Jay
October 7, 2002
Comment: I thank those who publish literature about the Watchtower.
It has helped me break free. I was fooled by there one sided opinions.
There is much that the Slave does not want us to know.
October 7, 2002
Comment: None of this talk about trolls means anything. Anyone who like
Bill tries to attract followers to themselves for their own glory must
be put in their place. His hypocritical stance is to pretend to be the
only one who "cares" about abused ones. I've seen the pictures
of his so-called appeal and I see the smug look on his face. At least
some of us left the organisation with more dignity. He goes around with
his smart-ass attitude, thinking he is doing something great when in
reality he is merely a tool of satan, a puppet. Anyone who follows Bill
B. is SHIT. I don't care how many relatives/elders/MS's or other JW's
raped you when you were 7. Don't think I don't care about abused children
- I do, more than you know. But those who choose to follow a gutless,
fat, stupid C*NT like Bill B. show how truly worthless you are. You DESERVE
everything you get. The anti-john.
October 7, 2002
Comment: HTTP Error 403 403. 6 Forbidden: IP address rejected This error
is caused when the server has a list of IP addresses that are not allowed
to access the site, and the IP address you are using is in this list.
Please contact the Web server's administrator if the problem persists.
Blah.
October 7, 2002
Comment: HAHA your new guest book sucks as much as you do. Are you happy?
Are you proud now you've started your own cult under the leadership of
your grand "masterbater", Bill B. ? Gather 'round to take the
milk from flaccid Bill B. ! Gather all the lambs to the great circle-jerk!
October 7, 2002
Comment: Comments or complaints contact me at ronpthomson@usa. com Ask
me nicely to stop posting here, or tell me what you think of me. Maybe
I'll reply, maybe I won't. The anti-john.
October 7, 2002
Comment: although these crimes are truely wrong and awful I believe
it's wrong to attach or associate the crimes with the religion. Just
as, you would agree, it's wrong to look down upon a whole race if you
experienced an awful crime from some of them. There is nothing in the
bible that supports such crimes. These things occuring in the org. just
proves once again thatimperfect humans are part of the org. . It would
be the devils plan to make the congragation look bad and discourage anyone
from Jahovah. It's very easy to get dicouraged when you have a bad experience
with people in a congragation but your relationship with Jahovah and
what was given to us as a guide in the bible is what we as individuals
are responsible for and the only thing we have control over is ourselves. Don't
let somone elses imperfection keep you from your relationship with Jahovah.
If you do you're onlly hurting yourself and accomplishing the devils
goals. . to discourage you.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Left the Watchtower back in 1987. Took many years to get my
head straight. (That will explain all the sick posters who support the
Org. on here). My advice to others. Get out. It's a big fantastic world
out there and sorry Governing Body, everything is not black and white
like your underware. Later people
October 7, 2002
Comment: Please check out this new group for those with doubts, those
who've been df', da'd or just want to share experiences. http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
October 7, 2002
Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "the disaster of Armageddon,
greater than that which befell Sodom and Gomorrah, is at the door. " (1946
Let God Be True)
October 7, 2002
Comment: Hi, just wanted to highlight a discrepancy in the news story
regarding Bill. On this particular ocassion, Bill and Kiki were using
a stuffed toy lamb, rather than a gerbil as had been reported in the
Daily Post. And it is evident that the resulting fire was mostly caused
by the flammable nature of the material used in the stuffed toy, and
was not entirely due to the effects of intestinal gases, as had been
reported. "in him"
October 7, 2002
Comment: To those who blame the governing body for the actions of some
of their members - how would you feel if your child committed a crime
behind your back, without your consent and everyone blamed you for it?
Let the victims of abuse and injustice not become unfair themselves.
Speak out by all means - against the abusers, but dont blame all JW's
for the actions of a few. My heart goes out to those genuine victims,
but not to the apostates who may only be after money. The genuine victims
will only suffer more if you go ahead with a class action. user: bioharmony
- Askme. com/Religion
October 7, 2002
Comment: May God bless the Lambs and give them solace and victory over
their enemies. Especially those still caught in the mind-numbing grip
of the borg. May you find the love of the great Shepherd of the dheep,
the Lord Jesus Christ. ALWAYS remember, the true God is not found in
any "organization" He is nigh you, no matter where you are
for He is spirit. The GB and their duped followers are simply a bunch
of UNSAVED, LOST religious sinners. Pure and simple.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Keep up the good work. As odious as the fact of sexual abuse
is, there is a an even more damaging factor to be considered. People
who are enticed into this sick dysfuctional organisation are literally
victims of a mind control system. To be required to read and remember
their strange religious quackery on a regular cycle of three or more
times a week for the duration of your life is imensly damaging to the
psychi-these people are actually suffering from instituitionalized depression!!It
is indeed abuse of mind boggleing proportion. The real issue is that
these people have no voice outside or inside this organisation. This
means that they are trapped for their life. Imagine children growing
up believing that the end of the world is near- don't worry about an
education don't get involved with people from out side the organisation,
and then to be told that they must spread "the truth" so that
they can recruit more dysfuctionality. . . where does it end!!! Suffer
the children indeed. Terry morrison, gold coast Australia.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Thanks JV for continuing to fix the new Guestbook glitches!
----- Welcome to the new reader & lamb from Australia who told her
story on 10-7-02! What horrors you have been through. I am so glad you
are now experiencing some peace in your life. Love /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: To the 10-8-93 Awake! reader: I concur with what someone else
wrote, that what the Society puts in the magazines and has announced
from the platform is NOT what is practiced. The elders have a different
set of "rules" which they receive via orally from the CO/DO
and/or via the BOE letters, many of which can be found on the internet,
so you can see for yourself. It's more of the "Do as they say, but
not as they do" which Jesus spoke about. And lawsuits by abused
lambs is not about money. It's about holding the abuser and the society
accountable for their actions. -- If you keep reading and researching
the matter, you will see. Take care/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi Jesika! I didn't really create a "group" for the
purposes of having a "group. " I merely opened up a yahoogroup
account so I could have an Email Address that I could use for public
places like this Guestbook and J-W. com, where my email at J-W. com is
now "open. " (I never wanted to put my private email on J-W. com,
so this works great for that). As "owner" of the "yahoogroup," any
emails sent to: My_JW_Stuff-owner@yahoogroups. com are automatically forwarded
to my private email. (I like using yahoogroups for such thing rather
than just plain yahoo-email. I dunno why!) ;-) I just read your thread
about going to Vegas and left a post there. WOWOWOW! Have a great time!
Love ya! /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi BJC: Yes, thank you for that info, I did receive it via
email. I haven't had time to do much "serious" reading, but
I have it "saved" in my inbox, and planned to write you a thanks
in return. Now that I see you here, I do say THANK YOU! Best/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: I agree with whoever wrote we should ask for the abusers here
to be blocked. I had thought of doing that the other day, but then I
remembered reading something Bill wrote at somepoint, somewhere (maybe
in the Guestbook months ago), that by letting these posts stand as is,
it just shows the visitors what arses (that's my word for them) people
can be about exposing the abuse & pedophile situation in the org.
--- However, since the troll-posts are becoming more and more vulgar,
I think it IS time we all write and say something. Copy the offending
posts and put them in your email to silentlambs and the webmaster. And
everyone who does so, post back here what webmaster/silentlambs has to
say. OK guys? Thanks/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: I'm sure all of the "honest" people who post here
are wise enough NOT to write Ron P. Thompson, the anti-John, who left
his addy and asked people to write him. Surely he will just sent you
a virus if you write him with your email addy. And he cares about abused
children? Hardly. Nobody that talks like he does could possibly care
about anybody but themselves. If you care about children so much, why
didn't you stand up against the almighty WTS and do something about it?
You're just jealous, Mr. Weasle. /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony wrote: ". . . don't blame all JW's for the actions
of a few. " --- Correction, not "a FEW," but 23,720 "few" who
most if not all have been "covered up" at the DIRECTION of
the WTS. That's where the blame lies, along with the individual elders
who agreed to "pass these things over. " /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Seems we have a lot of JW visitors to the site on 10-7-02!!!
Very interesting! It tells us that they ARE at least hearing, even though
they are still not "believing. " Give it time. . . /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Someone wrote: "Don't let somone else's imperfection keep
you from your relationship with Jahovah. " (That's JEhovah, must
have been a typo). Anyway, Jehovah is EVERYWHERE, not just in the KHalls,
contrary to what we thought/were told as JWs. Jehovah can be found by
ANYONE at ANY TIME. That's the GOOD NEWS. /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Welcome Terry Morrison from Australia. Wow, "GOLD COAST" sounds
beautiful! And yes about the high-mind-control training as a JW. "Thinking" is
not allowed, not after you are baptised. Anyway, welcome! /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Testing Testing (by SLC) to see if a URL will show up using
the quote marks on each side of it such as:
October 8, 2002
Comment: The answer to my above Test is "NO," the URL and
email addy did not show up. Hmmmm. . . . wonder why it does that? /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Question for the regulars here: Do you guys like the "bold" font?
It kinda hurts my eyeballs after awhile. Just wondering what you others
think. Thanks/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: I also do not care for the bold font. Also, I miss the time-stamps
which made it a lot easier to follow threads and jump to certain sections.
October 8, 2002
Comment: To SLC I have to agree with you and Bill about leaving the
abusers on this site vs. blocking them. My x's family were Jehovah's
Witness and were the biggest hypocrites. Every time these people post
it reminds me and I am sure thousands of others that there is no real
change of heart in many of the members. I'll bet some of them are elders
who did some of the abusing. Right HAHAHA? Which congregation do you
oversee? Later everyone Sah
October 8, 2002
Comment: NOTICE: You guys may already know this, but I was just reminded
of it: If you have a "Pennysaver" or "Pennypincher" type
newspaper in your area, they will print "Public Service Announcements" for
FREE. Since silentlambs. org is a non-profit organization, any announcement
by us would qualify. Granted, it all depends on how many such PSA's they
receive each week as to which ones make it in the paper, but if we submitted
one to them every week as a standard practice, that is a great way to
get the word out about silentlambs. It could be short and sweet or up
to a paragraph. Example -------- SUPPORT GROUP for victims of sexual
or domestic abuse. www. silentlambs. org -- #1-877-WT-ABUSE, and/or locally
call #1-000-000-0000 (put your own number there. They may be more likely
to publish your PSA if a local contact person is listed). ---------------
Will you guys offer suggestions: Should we mention the JW religion or
just leave it out? If so, how should it be worded exactly? Maybe like:
----- SUPPORT GROUP for victims/survivors of sexual and/or domestic abuse
by and for members of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Please visit: www. silentlambs. org.
Or call #1-877-WT-ABUSE. Local contact support #1-000-000-0000. ---------------
What do you think ladies (& silent rams?) Thanks for your input.
/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Yes, I also liked the DATE stamp, and I asked in an earlier
post to the Webmaster, but he didn't answer that specific query. Maybe
they are working on it. --OR-- maybe we can't have everything, eh? LOL!
;-) /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi SAH: Well, it isn't really my PERSONAL choice to leave the
abusive comments in. I was merely stating what I remember reading Bill
had written. Personally, I'd remove all of them! ;-) --- However, your
reasons are valid for leaving them in, and Bill's too. It just gets really
depressing to have to read that garbage. Thanks for the comment, though.
/SLC -- PS: Were you asking me what congregation I oversee? Or were you
referring to the abusive posters? Just in case it was directed to me,
I am Silent Lambs Cheerleader, hence of the female gender. ;-)
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi SLC No not you. I mean the posters like HAHAHA and antiJohn.
I have to credit these idiots for reminding me of my x's family. Good
Jehovah's Witness at the meeting, drugs, affairs, heavy drinking when
away from the Hall. Tell me they really believed. SAH
October 8, 2002
Comment: Brain Teaser: During the first few centuries of the last millenium,
approximately 900,000 Christians were massacred, according to a WT magazine
of 9-1-51. Then in the 1-15-52 WT's Questions from Readers, someone wrote
in asking : "How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation
of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ's body, and which position
was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?" ---
Good question, eh? (My comment: If 900,000 were martyred in those early
years, surely the entire number of 144,000 would have been "used
up" way back then). So how did the WT reply to the Question from
Reader? See the WT's answer here & get ready for your brain to be
teased. ;-) /SLC ----- http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38198&page=1&site=3#518633
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi SAH! Duh! Sometimes I'm a little slow! ;-) Thanks for the
clarification. --- I was a single sis in the cong, so didn't get to "mingle" much
with the Elder Crowd. Most of the "married folks" hung out
together. I knew they had "football parties" at certain homes
to watch the games on TV, etc. I'm sure they got a little rowdy 'cuz
I would hear them talking about it at meetings. But overall I was never
privy to much of the real dirt. Getting an earful these days, though!
(via internet). LOL! /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Thanks Jay for the compliment on the new group. I've got lots
of new pages added already and more to come! Trolls and abusive people
will be banned, no problem. SLC, come check us out! http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
Linda Thoman
October 8, 2002
Comment: Last wk I met a lady in the Superstore. I knew her from the
time I was JW. She tried to avoid me butI took courage and aproached
her. It turned out that she was disfellowshipped and very disapointed
with the " friends" and the Organization. She was DSFL because
she was asking questions. She was abused while in the Borg since tender
age. I will ask her to share her experiences with us on this site. She
is going to sue the WT. Her family was ruined. Hers husband a JW was
cheating on her and married another women. Her son commited suiside last
year by hanging himself with a bed sheet on a tree right beside the local
hospital. The note he left behind indicated great unhapiness in his life.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Question: What does Borg stand for? I think part of it is Organization
but I am not sure of what the B stands for.
October 8, 2002
Comment: "Borg" refers to a fictional race of cyBORGs, cyBernetic
ORGanisms, (part machine/part human or other species) that are the recurring "Bad
Guys" in the newest incarnations of the Star Trek TV series' and
movies. Their goal is to "convert" all unique species into
Borg drones. Their motto: "You will be assimilated. Resistance is
futile"
October 8, 2002
Comment: EVERYONE, I noticed the web hosting for this site is DONATED.
I would assume that the technical expertise is also donated. What does
that mean? Well, in the real world I have to pay $125-$175 an hour to
have my technical difficulties handled. So I’ll bet someone fixed
the guestbook for FREE. Yes, the site might still have some bugs however;
it takes someone’s hard earned knowledge and time to correct them.
So everyone please stop complaining and just thank the webmaster for
the improvements. I’m sure he’ll solve problems IF he has
the time, but we certainly have no right to demand anything. Let's appreciate
the time he has donated. Nancy Naranjo
October 8, 2002
Comment: What happened to this guestbook? This guestbook used to be
cool. Now it's totally gay.
October 8, 2002
Comment: http://www. geocities. com/osarsif/bethsarim3. htm
October 8, 2002
Comment: Nancy N - Yes, advice the society has given elders in the matter
of child abuse is appalling. Has anyone tried an appeal to their disfellowshipping
or whatever else? The society appoints a another committee to look into
the matter, however, they, themselves do not sit in to act in an unbiased
and scripturally and publication-aly educated manner. If the appointed
committee reaches the same conclusion -- ignoring reasonable and logical
evidence -- one doesn't have another place to go and the society won't
bother with it anymore. At this point, one is told to wait on Jehovah
and he'll straighten it out. I just can't see Moses or King Solomon handling
the differences between their people in such a manner. Can you? They
RESOLVED issues between their people, brothers. This current system doesn't
RESOLVE anything and only leaves injured people around. If one objects
to THIS method of handling differences, the FIRST QUESTION is: Don't
you trust in Jehovah to take care of this matter? I don't believe that
is the issue. I don't believe Jehovah God wants people walking around
mentally and emotionally (even physically) wounded waiting for him to
step in. It's my opinion that when matters fall into Jehovah's hands
that he isn't going to be happy because he'll know that we didn't respect
him and his instructions to go about quickly resolving issues between
us. Resolving issues doesn't mean that the victim or injured party needs
to carry wounds around. It means that their wounds have been "cleaned
and dressed and kissed" TO AID IN THE HEALING PROCESS. I see no
healing, love, trust, AFFECTION -- I only see very, very HURT PEOPLE
who haven't been reassured of God's love and the congregation's love.
People who haven't had care and affection. People left alone to either
bleed to death or to stop bleeding on their own, so to speak. Healing
can take place in such circumstances but NOT WITH JOY AND LOVE. The pain
NEVER goes away. I don't believe that's the kind of resolution to issues
among us Jehovah God wants. It's not representative of a compassionate
and loving God that has affection for his people.
October 8, 2002
Comment: If you are "infected" by the borg in the fanasy world
of Star Trek you no longer have your own personality. "You service
US" I. e. The borg collective. They add whatever worthwhile traits
that you have to their own in a delusional attempt to achive "perfection. " They
cling to that old the creed that they are the most "perfect" race
of living beings ever to exist. You can exist around them and not be
part of the hive if you are not percived as a threat or a prize. As a
threat if you stand against them then, you are distroyed. (However it
is amazing what happens when people work together to resist. ) They have
great abilities to adapt/overwhelm to/the offensive or defensive abilities
of others they are admerabile as much as they are scary. The real comparasion
to the WT and the GB is that the "slaves" in the WT are totally
expendible as are the "borg drones" in the star trek saga.
The "drones" do as they are commanded as do the "slaves. " Once
infected "drones" work to infect other people including fellow
individuals, friends, and family that do not want to be assimilated.
Most important "will" is overwhelmed and they serve a master
that has total control over them. To move against the hierarchy in any
way = death. Again compaire to the WT and the slave class. There are
comparisons except it is really giving the WTBS way to much undeserved
credit and power. They are but like a fly comapaired to a cobra in abilities,
(compared to the borg). At best they are "borgish. " For some
with an open mind could/should see the common threads without being either
insulted or terrified of the Jehovah's Witnesses ideology. I'm not.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Oh, sorry, did I mess up your guest book ? Well, too bad. Ron
P. Thomson (alias The Anti- John) is here to stay. I will continue to
post THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BILL. http://www. bill. bowen. isgay. com
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi Ron P Thompson(Anti-John) You truly must be one of the stupidist
persons to sit at a computer. A half brick is much more dangerous than
a full brick. What that means Ron is that if you throw a half a brick
it will travel farther than if you throw a full brick. The same goes
for a half lie vs. a full lie. A half lie/half truth will travel farther
than your overwhelming Bill stories. Your so far out in left field that
you even a Jehovah's Witness would be ashamed to be associated with you.
So keep going with your big stories from your little mind and you will
be our daily entertainment. Someone has to play the fool.
October 8, 2002
Comment: The "borg" is just about any organization and, even,
relationship that's ever been know by humans. That includes marriage,
too. Why should the humans in the Watchtower be any different from all
other humans? They, too, have to sort through all the "borg" stuff
the WORLD MAKES SOCIETY BELIEVE AND LIVE to get to the truth from Jehovah
God the same as anyone else. Do we expect them to be DIFFERENT? I do.
It's very disappointing to find people that are intellectually enlightened
that still exercise in some things, agreed serious things, the BORG OF
THE WORLD'S THINKING AND METHOD OF HANDLING THINGS. Each individual person,
no matter who they are or what position they hold, has a very difficult
time SEEING that it is THEY who are having a BORG MOMENT in their mind
in some matters -- that THEY'RE carrying on wrong thinking and need to
change THEIR mind and actions over. Life's tough and most people don't
get past the physical necessities to figure out and understand that their
MIND and HEART needs to be fed, revised, adjusted and that it's a constant
thing so that they can get more and more of the WORLD'S BORG OUT OF THEM
-- even JWs!
October 8, 2002
Comment: AP: BILL BOWEN LAUNCHES NEW WEB SITE! Bill Bowen, administrator
of the popular silentlambs. org web site devoted to JW abuse issues has
just launched a new web site for JW's and EX-JW's - you can find it at
www. silentmasterbaters. org. Bill Bowen said today: "lambs, there
is no need to struggle with your masterbation problem alone! Now you
can talk to other masterbaters on the all- new guest book". In related
news, Bill Bowen also revealed today that he is gay. [the anti-john]
October 8, 2002
Comment: Keep those e-mails coming, folks. The anti-john. ronpthomson@usa. com
October 8, 2002
Comment: hey linda thoman, can I join your watchtower excape group?
I already excaped but I thought it might be fun. p. s. your spelling is
almost as bad as johns. Excape, indeed. Or was that just a (clever?)
play on words ? The anti-john.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Left the society in 1993 after reading the book by James Penton.
Never looked back.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Just got done looking at the pictures of the march! Right On
everyone. You were representing the thousands that could not make it
such as me. Just remember. ONLY PRISONS HAVE WATCHTOWERS
October 8, 2002
Comment: . .
October 8, 2002
Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "If the wicked system of this
world survived until the turn of the century[the year 2001?], which is
highly impobable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible
prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War 1 generation.
However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication
that 'the conclusion of the system of things' is moving fast toward its
end. " (WT Oct 15 1980 31)
October 8, 2002
Comment: Ron . . . . . Since you are going to be a regular poster I would
like to welcome you to the silentlambs website. I noticed you mentioned
you had also been abused. I hope you receive counseling or other help
to overcome your difficulties. Although I find your ridiculous newspaper
articles highly offensive I must admit that they are well written and
humorous. Maybe sharing your misery here will bring you peace. Sincerely
Nancy Naranjo
October 8, 2002
Comment: Ron, I asked RJ and now I ask you, "What do you want?" "How
can I help?" I would rather not have you as an enemy. The people
who are called the "governing body" put forward very bad opinions
as biblical/dogma law about how to handle very henious crimes. Many elders
take their appointing like a ruthless lord. (Not everyone) Some seem
to have the mentality keep the peace at any and all costs. Inocence be
damned. These who did, these men who were co-abusers by proxy are just
as accountable. (Maybe more so) I assume that you do not approve of the
rape of children (or anyone) I assume that you are not in favor of the
beating of women and children. I hope that I am not singing to a bag
of jelly beans. It seems that accept by a court of (real) law these men
will not be held accountable. They have caused the divison here, not
bill, the anderson's, the lambs, me, or you. Unless you belive these
men divine they are just plain old men. And as men they are acountable
for their actions and the words (policy/doctrine/dogma) that they put
forward. To cover up that which you do, to lie about it, to refuse to
accept responsibility makes you unbelivable and there for not respectable.
(of ill character) JW's as they learn what are the facts of the WT they
will not be pleased. I don't know if this is the end of the road for
the WTBS. They are in control of that. (maybe) But if they can not face
their actions; Then a lie can only fool or intimidate for so long. Propaganda
in a black form is always temporary. When propaganda as leadership fails
it is sudden; Where and when we do not know. I wonder how many families
and how many kids, wives, husbands, and friends would not have to suffer
if the GB/WT would just mind thier own bee's wax. -Jayson
October 8, 2002
Comment: Bethel offices have issued directives in accordance with the
contents of the Oct 8 1993 Awake! published by the governing body of
JW's worldwide. Nowhere do any of those letters say "Obstruct police
investigations" or "be silent and dont report abuse to the
authorities" It is only referring to how the elders must deal with
pedophiles who may have offended many years before they became Jehovah's
witnesses. The local elders are not the long arm of the law with respect
to illegal immigrants either. Im sure many reading this would be glad
of that. But if a complaint comes up or there is a police investigation
they must co operate in accordance with Romans 13:1-4. Also the question
of clergy/laity or doctor/patient confidentiality comes into it. But
rightly elders should advise offenders to fess up. However if in Court
a judge orders an elder in thw witness box to tell the whole truth, then
Romans 13:1-4 applies.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Well i've been reading through alot of different comments no
doubt there are many different opinions too. However one thing we all
agree on is child molesters are bad. No doubt anyone who hates Jehovah's
Witnesses will grasp at anything to try and rubbish the good people in
the truth. There are a couple of things i'd like to clarify 1/ Some people
have stated that they would or have been disfellowed shiped for going
to police about child molesters that can not be true no one is disfellowshipped
for that. disfellowshipping is for unrepentent wrong doers. It is a last
resort used by the Elders if all consell has failed. 2/ The society to
the best of my knowledge has never ever said children or parents can't
go to the police. 3/ Parents are ultimatly responsible for there children
and bare responsiblity for there childs welfare not the elders. 4/ personally
i think all these child molesters and homosexuals should all be wiped
from the face of this earth, however after learning about love and forgiveness
i know that we must forgive also. And that is why some child molestors
have been accepted back into a congregation if they have sincerly repented.
This is what God has told us to do. The only reason i can come up with
as to why some elders have tried to cover child molestion up is perhaps
there was some nepitizm infolved . This of course doesn't make it right
. And certainly does bring reproach upon Jehovah's name. Titus1:16
October 9, 2002
Comment: Silent Lambs press release 9/19/02 Quoting a letter sent from
Bethel to all congregations in the UK: "Our position is that the
secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin. To avoid
a miscarriage of justice elders must not interfere with, prevent or impede
any secular investigation into child abuse. They must ensure that secular
laws are adhered to. (Romans 13:1) To that end they are instructed to
contact the legal dept. at Bethel whenever they receive information from
even one person that child abuse has occcurred. When a report is received
guidance is given by the legal dept to ensure that 1. The alledged victim
and other potential victims are protected from possible abuse 2. The
counsel is given to report crime to the proper authorities and comply
with any additional legal requirements. " This is totally contrary
to the claims made by others on this Guestbook that instructions given
to elders in letters are different to those in the Oct 8 1993 Awake!
Mr Bowen raises the question that the above recommendations do not occur
in the the same letter sent to US congregations. An error of omission,
a typeset error, someone forgot to Save those sentences when putting
the data into the main computer - whatever reason there is no possible
just cause to deliberately omit those words in the US letter and include
them in the UK. Im sure all of is here have made similar msitakes. To
err is human, to forgive divine, to make an issue out of an honest mistake
is unreasonable.
October 9, 2002
Comment: EXCELLENT OBSERVATION from a post on 10-5-02; 12:10:18; which
read: ----- "I figured this out a long time ago and I believe it's
true -- they (elders) like to let each one of us feel as though we're
the only one having a problem (no matter what the problem is) and make
us feel isolated from all the rest. That, in itself, changes our behavior
and we isolate ourselves because we believe (for lack of compassionate
caring and clarifying) that we're the only ones with the problem, too.
This helps to sweep unpleasant matters under the rug. " --------
That is so true. Not sure why they think that way. It could be due to
the SECRETIVE NATURE which elders are supposedly sworn to, i. e. , to not
tell what the bros/sis tell them. When a person has a problem and feels
NO ONE ELSE has the same problem (I remember that feeling MANY times
during the 11 years as a JW), it is so true what the above person wrote,
it changes your behavior and makes you feel like there's something wrong
with you and you alone. What needs to be done is revamp the entire atmosphere
of congregations and make them OPEN, i. e. , have OPENLY-KNOWN support
circles/groups for, say, single parents, or divorced ones, or single
sisters, etc. But instead, they have always "FROWNED" on any
such "SOCIAL" gatherings saying instead, GO OUT IN SERVICE
MORE. So you go go go go out in service, but you still feel ALONE WITH
YOUR PROBLEM. NOT a good atmosphere, not at all. Here's hoping they wise
up and change things for the uplifting of spirits of all concerned. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: BTW, THANKS to the WEBMASTER for getting those OCTOBER 1-5,
2002, POSTS up!!! The link to them is now CLEARLY SHOWING UP on the GUESTBOOK
PAGE. Hurray! & Thanks again! /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Hi Linda! I promise to get over to your site and sign up soon.
I did "stop by briefly" but I couldn't find my MSN passport
info, which is on a piece of paper around here somewhere (drowning in
little pieces of papers!) I was able to see your "main page," though,
and Wow! You definitely have a lot of links up there already! You've
been working very hard on it, I see! Great job!! Hugs/SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: That is SO SAD about the young son who hanged himself with
the bedsheet! I hope you can help your DF'd friend. Suicide is no joke.
Been deadly-close to it myself several times, earlier years and then
when all the abuse issues came out early in the last decade. It's a miracle
I'm still here. Thankfully, all is so much better and I never feel that
way anymore. That boy must have been in DARK DESPAIR, which is a really
BAD place to be. Personally, I think it's DESPAIR that causes suicides.
I'm so sorry for that lady. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Seems we have another "blind" JW Defender Visitor,
who also doesn't have the courtesy to use a handle (give himself a code
name) so that I may properly address that person: That person wrote:
----- "1/ Some people have stated that they would or have been disfellowedshiped
for going to police about child molesters that can not be true no one
is disfellowshipped for that. " ---- Sheesh! Where have you been?
With your head in the sand? That is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS and HAS HAPPENED
OVER & OVER, when an abused lamb wants to warn others in the cong
of the pervert who is still IN the cong, they have been told over and
over they will be DISFELLOWSHIPPED IF THEY TALK ABOUT IT TO THE OTHER
MEMBERS OF THE CONG. ---- Sir, you have no idea what you are talking
about. Rose Colored Glasses you wear. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Someone wrote: --- " However if in Court a judge orders
an elder in thw witness box to tell the whole truth, then Romans 13:1-4
applies. " ----- Well, we all know it is SUPPOSED to apply, but what
is done in REALITY is NOT WHAT YOU SAY. The elders will LIE LIE LIE and
use the "excuse" that it is THEOCRATICE WARFARE. Go read all
of the information on the BOER v. WTS case that was just heard in CANADA.
Those elders on the witness stand lied through their teeth. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: PLEASE DON"T BE SO IGNORANT about CHILD MOLESTERS! PLEASE!
--- Someone wrote: --- "And that is why some child molestors have
been accepted back into a congregation if they have sincerly repented. " ---
A child molester CANNOT SINCERELY REPENT. They CAN PRETEND to be "repentent," but
THEY WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT CONTINUE THEIR PERVERSIONS. Please go EDUCATE
YOURSELF on the subject of molesters/pedophiles/abusers before writing
such NAIVE information. You only make yourself look foolish. There are
links on this site (go to the home page), and/or just do a search on
the internet. READ & LEARN & then come back and say something
intelligent and we might believe you then. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Looks like we have Bro. Sainthood Elder here, who wrote: " to
make an issue out of an honest mistake is unreasonable. " ----- Gimme
a break. Since WHEN does the WTS make TYPOS? And to make an issue out
of CHILD ABUSE POLICY INSTRUCTIONS IS MOST REASONABLE. --- Also, what
the WTS PRINTS in BOE's, magazines, KM's, etc. is for PUBLIC CONSUMPTIONS
(whitewashed), and NOT WHAT ELDERS ARE VERBALLY TOLD by CO/DO's in the
SECRET elder meetings after assemblies/conventions and when the CO/DO's
have the secret little meetings at the KHalls. They are SO GUILTY, and
they KNOW IT, that they NOW tell elders: Hear What We Are Saying, but
DO NOT TAKE NOTES. Elders cannot even write down the "dirty work" instructions
being given VERBALLY at the training schools and other "secret" meetings
for elders only. They are not allowed to bring tape recorders, they cannot
bring cell phones, etc. WHY IS THAT? Because the WTS DOES NOT WANT WHAT
THEY ARE SAYING VERBALLY to be IN PRINT ANYWHERE, not even in an elder's
own handwriting on a piece of paper. WISE UP FELLA! (or lady, whoever
you anonymous people are). /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: The elders and the organization are both liars. You can tell
about the organization by all the big claims through out their 120 years
history and then the coverups. This group represents Jehovah??? I think
not. Ron
October 9, 2002
Comment: To the person who quoted the unverifiable statistics about
the WT pedophile register - 27000 represents 0. 5% of the total of 6,000,000
JW's or 1/200 JW's. The ugly statistics on pedophilia world wide - 1
in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys will be sexually abused by the age of 18.
That means in effect with the average no of children per family being
3 that 25% of the general population are pedophiles! Hence to say that
JW's have the largest number of pedophiles in the community is simply
untrue. And that's if the unverifiable number - 27000 is correct. Satan's
world is a seething cesspool of debauchery and degradation. Of the 27000
only a relatively small number would be convicted pedophiles as the register
has the name of anyone who has had a complaint made against- even if
only by one person. bioharmony
October 9, 2002
Comment: What's all this BS about theocratic warfare and lying in Court??
Theocratic warfare is a fight not against the courts, police and secular
rulers but against WICKED SPIRIT FORCES. Ephesians 5:10-12. Court transcripts
can be wrong. I know first hand as I was in court years ago with a Statutary
Declaration and the transcript of the words were nothing like what was
read out off that document !! One witness actually evaded a question
and both the Q and A were omitted (they had not been order to be omitted
as the other side's lawyer did not object).
October 9, 2002
Comment: Why not an honest mistake - a typo error? Perhaps you can come
up with a reason why it would be deliberate????? Im glad Im not nmarried
to you - if you cant see an honest mistake hitting you between the eyes
you would eb very hard to live with! By the way Im not Bro Elder - I
am a woman and I was sexually abused as a child, NOT by a JW, even though
I had been in the truth since I was 7. It was an outsider - a swimming
instructor.
October 9, 2002
Comment: testing
October 9, 2002
Comment: For reference the 27k molesters that are going out to people's
homes without any warning from the WT. That is the statistic from the
U. S. Candada and Europe. That is not the statistic for the WOrld wIde
JW popualtion. You qouted the whole population and came up with . 5% of
the population. A small number, yes. Smaller than the national average
of 1% by half. Of course we are also discussing how those cases are being
handled or swept under the rug. (Is the porogitive to protect the relgion
or the people) True the people who elect to go to the police may not
be DF'ed for proptecting themselves and everyone else. No, they are disfellowshipped
for "causing division. " OR, some other trumped up charge. But,
the underling factor is that they broke the unwritten code of do not
go outside the inner circle. 'Do not think for yourself about what is
justice. ' (Those are my opinions) Now back to statistics, if you take
the 27k number of molesters that are in fact given a haven in the wt
rarely given to such creatures in any society and factor for one or two
million members you get quite a different number as high as 2% of the
popluation of jw's. That is double the national average. Do the statistics
for yourself. Some will peddle bullshit and try to spin the facts. Others
will look at numbers and try to prove their point but, the numbers do
not lie. Do it for yourself; And, there are not 5 or 6 million recorded
jw's in the US, Canada, and Europe. That there are somewhere up to to
2% of the population of them that are preditors is again reasonable by
national statistics and by the wt's own records. They do wish to keep
this private and that is in the favor of the criminal not the person
wronged. The big mistake is the the name WTBS is not the name of God.
One does not bring "reproch" upon God by protecting society
from criminals. One brings "reproach" by allowing evil to spread
ramped. -Jayson
October 9, 2002
Comment: I have been a JW since 1986, have been active and in-active
over the years, been married and not married also. And I have seen what
good elders can do and what bad ones have done, up close and personal.
Being a single mother with a heavenly hope, 'they' come after you and
your children like you have a target on your back. They, in God's name
will lie, intimindate, or whatever it is in their means to distroy my
relationship with Jehovah. I have tried hiding from them, changing congregations,
marrying outside of the congregation so they have to go thru my husband
to get to me, I have Matthew 18ed congregation overseers, ended up in
the hospital for stress related illnesses, etc. I have lost faith in
men not Jehovah. As far as the organization goes, even the governing
body legally separated its self from the organization. In Daniel 11:31
and Matthew 24:15, the 'disgusting thing' standing in the holy place
refers to those bad elders. And in Luke 16:15, Jesus refers to the 'elders'
of his day as a 'disgusting thing' in his Father's sight. I, personally
like to refer to them as hypocrites just as Jesus did in Matthew 23.
Please don't lose faith in Jehovah because of men. I beleive His promises
written in the Bible and I beleive Him. You don't need a hall to beleive
or worship Jehovah, He is everywhere!!! And all that call on him will
be saved(Acts 2:21)in these end times. Agape.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Hi, My 40 year old sister has been a Jehovahs Witness since
1986. We grew up with sexual abuse at the hands of my moms husband. None
of which were JW's. But I think the way JW's reperesented themselves
as one big happy family seemed to appeal to her. I was studying with
them at the same time as she was and red flags came up when I saw how
controlling they were appearing to me. I question EVERYTHING. I never
take anything at face value that I am told and they didn't seem too happy
with that. It caused alot of division between my younger sister and myself.
We were always so close. She seemd to have some scriptures memorized to
answer alot of questions to support their beliefs. But, even after all
these years If I ask her about a scripture that seems to contradict some
of what she has ben told she will stammer and not seem familair with
it and say,"let me talk to an elder and i'll get back to you. Then
she would call me back and say "No, that isn't so". as thouh
she just took his word for it and didn't really do any research herself.
My sister is a very kind person and I have met some really nice JW's.
I'm sure that would never harm a child. She says how they ahve a loving
small congregation in her small town. Well, that may be so and I'm glad
for her. But, that doesn't erase or negate the other congregations where
it may be happening and being covered up. I plan to print out some of
the victims stories. I don't know what she will think of it. I'm not doing
it to attack her organisaztion. We both swore years ago that we would
never remain silent about children being abused. As a rule she tends
to pooh-pooh any negative thing said about JW's. She almost looks smug
aabout it as though that's just further proof that they are being persecuted
as the true church. I have always thought it was a little more self righteousness
then true humility. I don't even know if she will read any of the information.
Maybe she will since she is also paronoid someone will try and hurt her
little girl after the way we grew up. But, that would be the only thing
that would inspire her to read any of it. Personally, no organization
tells me what to read or do. Although I am careful to try and read articles
of substance. I mean I don't read romance novels or porno. Not that romance
novels are bad. I used to like them as a teen. I WILL however look into
allegations as serious as child abuse or other important issues. Or if
an accusation has been made against my church. Our church knows this
about me and they encourage us all the time to "prove all things".
Not to just accept what they or anyone else has to say about the scriptures
without checking it out themselves, and praying on it. God won't leave
you floundering in darkness. And you don't need any group to tell you
what he has to say on it. Yes, I go to church. I love the people there.
However, I follow no group or man. Only God. Then I don't worry about
being lead down the wrong path. I DO look into things and read the Bible
and pray and see what God is telling me in his word about it. Sometimes
all it takes even is just the good sense he gave us to know the difference
between what is real and false. I'll let you know what she has to say
about the literature I give her about the victimes stories. Sincerely,
Windy
October 9, 2002
Comment: I don't understand. Why do people waiste their time posting "Attacking" material
when in all people who read this just skip on and don't give a crap what
or who. They are here for the purpose this website brings. Not to listen
to some punk who thinks he can bring down the owner of this site . . .
Sue me :) -JJV
October 9, 2002
Comment: JJV- If you are new here then welcome. You will not need a
lawyer with me young lad/laddy. It is hard to understand the postering
that goes on. But it does and will continue. (Unfortunaly) There is much
anger here. Many JW's feel that anything that shows them as less than
obtaining the perfect strikes at the real heart of the issue. That if
they are not special as a religon then they might be just plain ordinary.
If they are not the "divine truth" then think of all the needless
suffering that goes on. So anger is better than doubt. Attacking is a
better defense for flawed character that wants to maintain the status
quo then to admit fault take responsibility and make good on the harm
that has been done. I have a 4 year old. If he messes up and says he
is sorry that does not always make it ok. There are consequences for
actions taken. It is my opinion that rather than working on true forgiveness
the JW's allow thier elders to pardon people or not. That has little
to do with forgiveness as forgiving is an internal act. Pardoning is
an external act done by one with either authority or power to do so.
Talking about such things as forgiveness Vs. pardons chips away at an
authority personalities power base. Thus the slander. namecalling. yadayadayada. . .
But in order to help these people sometimes some of us have to stand
on the bridge and say "no one may pass. "-Jayson
October 9, 2002
Comment: Just testing
October 9, 2002
Comment: I was shocked to read an article about the dateline show and
even more so when I read all this on silentlambs. org. I too was raped
by a member of the congregation and was interogated by the elders chosen
to investigate the incident. They basically blamed me for the entire
thing, I was 12 at the time, but as I got older began to understand better.
The man who did this was reprimanded and they even found out he had done
this to several other girls. However, our entire family was shunned from
that point on and we ended up moving out of town because of this. J. W.
was our life and that came to a screeching halt. I got out of the religion
as soon as I was able and I would never go back. They are hypocritical
and very wrong. I have somewhat gotten over what happened to me but I
will never forget.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Anti-John, No to your first question. . . and correct on the comment
about my cleverness. Windy, welcome to the guestbook. Linda Thoman
October 9, 2002
Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/nowwhat. msnw
October 9, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony……I think Jayson answered you pretty
clearly on the 23,720 pedophiles on record. But I would like to add----there
are less than 2,000,000 witnesses in USA, Canada and Western Europe.
The largest percentage of JW’s are women I’m guessing only
40% or less are men. According the US Dept of Justice 94% of all abusers
are men. Most pedophiles have multiple victims. Dateline covered the
story of Fitzwater who had abused 17 witness children. The Australian
news show covered the story of a witness who had abused 40 children in
various congregations. Now multiply the 23,720 pedophiles by the average
number of victims---I'll use a low figure how about 12? Equals 284,640
VICTIMS!!! OUR innocent little children. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE
IS A PROBLEM???????
October 9, 2002
Comment: Dear lady who was raped at 12. I am so sorry, so very sorry
not only for the abuse but also for the way you were treated. I unfortunately
do understand very clearly what it is like to be treated that way. I
know what it feels like to have the rapist in the same hall and hear
him comment. I remember the sound like a screech on a chalkboard. I know
the desire to run, to think you can not stand to be there another minute.
I know the confusion and the terrible hurt and finally the anger. I know
the betrayal by the elders--that they would support him and not you the
INNOCENT victim. I know. . . Maybe calling that lawyer will help. . . Kimberlee
D. Norris attorney at law kdnorris@airmail. net 817. 335. 2800 314 Main
St Suite 300
October 9, 2002
Comment: hi all i'm watching. . . alot of good stuff. . . slc;; good idea
about the penny pincher i have to go there next week. . . they for years
made flyers for my pizza store. . . they know me. . i will ask them. . . funny
theres a slow guy there . . . i would always talk to him. . you know give
him my order. . . well guess what he got sucked up by the wt. . . worked
him over on time in the street, with 2 elders. . . wait till i get them
to print about the silent lambs. . . think i will play with him at the penny
pincher. . in front of all the other workers. . sure he tried to convert
them. . . this will be fun. . slc please e mail me so i say the right thing
when i go there. . . love john
October 9, 2002
Comment: Wroug, there are over 6 million witnesses world wide. I. E.
6,000,000 in the world.
October 9, 2002
Comment: What does a truly repentant pedophile look like????? What does
a truly repentant pedophile look like that deserves forgiveness???????
Although, we cannot read hearts we can interpet action as to acts of
repentance. ********any man who calls himself a "christian" and
touches a child is in a league all by himself. ******any pedophile who
calls himself a christian and isn't broken to the heart, cut to the core,
and doesn't show acts of repentance equal (as if that were possible)to
the disgusting thing he did THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE FORGIVE
THEM??? 70X7 was about insults NOT CRIMES and certainly NOT CRIMES AGAINST
A CHILD in our PROTECTION. ******There is nothing in God's word that
makes a mockery out of forgiveness. And if a pedophile does not show
acts of repentant evident to the victim then there is no cause to forgive.
A repentant pedophile wouldn't want or need the support of the congregation
- he would want that congregation to support and help the victim. That
would be an act of repentance worthy of forgiveness. I have not heard
one story yet that describes such a situation - have you????? A mind
that is so warped that his christian conscience would not prevent him
from touching a child in the first place doesn't have a christian conscience
at all. And there is nothing else that can save him. All the forgiveness
in the world won't save him - only cut to the heart repentance will.
And that is up to him.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Linda Thoman I think you are not nice for refusing to let me
into your Watchtower Excape. You are shunning me and I don't like that.
the anti-john.
October 9, 2002
Comment: JJV, you are an idiot. You talk about some punk who thinks
he can bring down the owner of this site. Well, guess what? I can, and
I will. Biding my time, for now. The anti-john.
October 9, 2002
Comment: I must say I strongly agree with the very insightful comments
posted above about pedophiles. The facts are clear: 1. Pedophiles DO
NOT HAVE a conscience, and never will. 2. Pedophiles are utterly selfish
to the core, such a person CAN NOT reform, nor can there be any redemption
for them. Not even God can save them. 3. A pedophile who has abused even
just one child forfeits ALL rights as a human being. But, I think we
need to be extremely clear on our definition of a pedophile. Pedophile
registers are all well and good, but often include, for example, a man
who touched up a 15 year old girl (with consent), hardly in the same
league as preying on school age children. As for the real, bona fide,
dyed-in-the-wool pedophiles, my preferred course of action would be immediate
castration. I'm sure the parents of the victims would feel the same way.
Once again, it also comes down to the burden of proof. There must be
CLEAR evidence, not just repressed memories. RPT.
October 9, 2002
Comment: To: Subject: Sorry, your membership application was denied
for Watchtower Excape, an MSN Group. Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:21:08 -0700
We're sorry, the anti-john. Your application for membership in Watchtower
Excape was denied by the group's manager. » Could this be a mistake?
If you think your application was denied by mistake, you can apply again.
When you fill out the application, be sure to type a message explaining
why you want to join. The group manager has the right to allow or deny
membership. » What else can I do? Search for other groups to join
or create a group of your own.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Nice try Anti-John, but no dice. Funny sin |
