|
October 2002 Guestbook - Page 2
Go to Page 1 | Go to Page 3
Comment: YAY IT WORKS!!! w00 h00!!! go me . . err something
October 5, 2002
Comment: This is a test to see if your guestbook is working. The new
security has been updated, OUT WITH OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW!
October 5, 2002
Comment: Guest Book Test
October 5, 2002
Comment: This is a truly noble effort. Although I am an atheist, I would
like to offer you my best wishes to you in your battle against those
who enforce ignorance upon others and to those who have suffered that
they'll find happiness one day. I'm am thoroughly disgusted with the
acts of the JW, and needless to say they're worse than the Christian
Depiction of Satan. By the way, it would be helpful too to pinpoint JW
communities around the globe so that others will be aware of the possibility
of the existence of a pedophile in the local community.
October 5, 2002
Comment: CONGRATULATIONS on breaking up the months of August & Sept. & October
in the Guestbook! Is that you who I think it might be working on this???
:-) THANK YOU, if it is You. If it's someone else, well, thank them
Too! :-) ------- QUESTION, though: Where are all the posts from 1st of
October through NOW? I posted a lot of posts last night (Friday 10-4-02)
and the night before that, etc. I am hoping/assuming you are still working
on this OCTOBER Section? and that all the posts from 10-1 through 10-5
will be added back in here soon? ----------------- ONE MORE QUESTION
while I've got your attention: I don't see a SCROLL BAR on the right
side of the OCTOBER Guestbook Page. Is that under construction also?
--------------- YES, YAHOO, & THANKS TO YOU & GOOD FOR YOU, like
you wrote in your funny messages at the top of the October page, dated
10-5-02. WE APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!!! ----- And Hi Everybody Else, too!
/SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: HELLO WEBMASTER: Got another question: I notice there is no
"CLEAR MESSAGE" button on this "COMMENT" page/window
area. SO when I came back to write a second message, I had to manually
"highlight" all the previous copy that was in this window
from my first message, and then delete it, before I could write this
second message. Will you be adding a "CLEAR MESSAGE" button
to the "COMMENT PAGE" area? THANK YOU!!! (Also, I DID see
the scroll bar on the October Message Page once I submitted my message.
My goof!) /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: WEBMASTER: I notice when I use QUOTATION MARKS around a word,
they show up as slashes on each side of the word rather than Quotation
Marks. Is that something that can be fixed? THANK YOU! LOVE WHAT YOU
ARE DOING FOR THE SILENTLAMB WEB PAGE & GUESTBOOK!!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: OK, I didn't describe that exactly right in the above post.
The QUOTE MARKS DO show up, but IN ADDITION, there are slash marks //
on each side of whichever word with Quotes. I guess that is no big deal
really. --------- But I sure do HOPE HOPE HOPE all the messages from
October 1 through October 5, 2002, WILL BE ADDED BACK IN HERE??? (I looked
at the September Messages to see if they were at the bottom of that, but
they are not). Do you have them in storage somewhere until you have time
to put them here in the OCTOBER page? THANK YOU!!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: ONE LAST QUESTION, and I will shut up for now. I DON'T SEE
A TIME-OF-DAY for each post, but only the DATE. Will the TIME OF DAY
of each post/feature be added back in? Sometimes we have to use that
in order to differentiate who we are replying to, for the posters who
do not use their names or give a name. Then we reply to them by saying,
"To No Name who Posted on 10-6-02 @ 3:40 AM" -- see what
I mean? ----- THANK YOU !!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: HI AGAIN WEBMASTER: ONE MORE THING I NOTICED, if you don't
mind me asking: As of late Friday night 10-4-02, the prior "Most
Recent" Guestbook page (which included everything from Part II-August
6th clear thru 10-4-02) had a total of 2. 6 MBs on that one page. -----
Now that the months are broken up, the figures are showing up like this:
August Part II has a total of 1. 3 MBs; and Sept. has 736 KBs. Therefore,
MISSING are a TOTAL of 564 KBs worth-of-posts from October 1 through
October 5th. WILL YOU PLEASE look around your office & and see if
your can find our missing 564 KBs of OCTOBER posts??? ;-) THANK YOU!!!
/SLC ----- (Also, if this is WHO I think it is working on the Guestbook:
Please let me know WHEN I can tell the others WHO you are so they can
THANK YOU ALSO! My lips are zipped until you give the OK. )
October 6, 2002
Comment: Very informative. One wonders who you can trust anymore. There
seems to be nowhere left that a predator can't go. . . What better
way into a flock than to dress a wolf in sheep's clothing. . . . . There is
no sanctuary left in this world, so very, very sad. . . .
October 6, 2002
Comment: I want to read other postings today
October 6, 2002
Comment: After watching the Sunday program I can only congratulate your
excellent work with this website. I did not experience abuse from this
religious order, however, the elders of this order took away a very fine
and beautiful gentleman from my family. They are a poor excuse for human
beings.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Here is an essay that looks at the child abuse issue from Jehovah's
viewpoint. http://www. e-watchman. com/essays/justice_silentlambs/justice_silentlambs. htm
October 6, 2002
Comment: For those of you who are interested, there is a new msn group
for anyone who is contemplating leaving the org, those who have been
df'd or da'd, or simply want a small setting to make and meet new friends.
This is not to take away from any other groups around, just to give another
option and this one is smaller than many others. http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
Linda Thoman
October 6, 2002
Comment: Webmaster: THANK YOU for the new guestbook forum. . . . . every
endeavor takes time and I know this took a lot of yours.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, yes there are some differences in the way this new
guest book operates. Number one, it is most assuredly higher security
now. The first posts of October can be seen as you enter the Guest book
button from the first page and before you click on view or add a post
look all the way down the links to October 02 Part 1. Here you will find
the first part of October already archived away from this current book.
I have noticed the syntax problems within the add message part of and
have no immediate fix for that except to ask you not to use hyphens so
they wont show up in your messages for now. I will look into this. In
Him Webmaster
October 6, 2002
Comment: is it not possible to enter without writing a message?
October 6, 2002
Comment: This is great! I went back to January 2002 posts to see if
there was a difference in the tone of the posts. I did this a couple
of days ago and yes the posts were much more to the subject and deep.
The security here was needed. Thank you for keeping this a safe place.
I can't image how much work this involved. Love, Claudine
October 6, 2002
Comment: Dear Webmaster: Thanks for checking in and answering our Qs!
If I am following your instructions correctly, the first page I see (without
clicking on "view" or "add a post") is this,
and I do not see any October 02, Part 1. The list of months ends with
Sept. 02, Part 1. ----- Here's what that page shows on my computer:
-------------------------------------- We'd like to know what you think
about our web site. Please leave your comments in this public guest book
so we can share your thoughts with other visitors. --- Add to Current
Guest Book, View Current Guest Book, Past Months Here: March, April,
May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December, January,
February, March, April, May 02 Part 1, May 02 Part 2, June 02 Part 1,
June 02 Part 2, July 02 Part 1, July 02 Part 2, August 02 Part 1, August
02 Part 2, September 02 Part 1, 2002 -------- Copyright © 2002 by
silentlambs. org- All rights reserved. Revised: 05 Oct 2002 21:32:47 -0700
. ----------------------------------------- And that's all there is on
this page, no October Part 1. Is it my computer or is anyone else out
there seeing it this way? Thanks for any info. . SLC --------------------------
Mr. Webmaster had written: The first posts of October can be seen as
you enter the Guest book button from the first page and before you click
on view or add a post look all the way down the links to October 02 Part
1. Here you will find the first part of October already archived away
from this current book.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, Dear Guestbook visitors, If you see less than October
Part one, then you either need to restart your computer or REFRESH your
page, you are not seeing the most current page. The most current page
of the guest book entry has October the first five days archived at the
bottom of it. I have had several immature persons e mail me with virus
attempts recently. This will not stop me and only firms up my faith in
what I am helping with on Silentlambs. It is a very sad thing that so
much hate gets reflected out from some. God is not about Hate, God is
Love. . . . . . . Webmaster
October 6, 2002
Comment: I've refreshed the web page. I deleted all temporary Internet
files. I still can't find October 1-4, 2002. ???
October 6, 2002
Comment: I'm sorry, too, that there is so much hatred expressed. However,
there isn't a lot of sympathy for victims, even outside of the organization.
It's a sickness that is pervasive everywhere. People perceive victims
as weak and, therefore, deserving of their victimization. Therefore,
it's understandable that their is hatred and blaming of victims - even
by people who should know better and who should know better than Jehovah's
Witnesses. Yet, in spite of all their Bible reading and excellent articles
on this subject, they keep giving in to a very common, ingrained hatred
and fear of victims. Yes, fear - if they need to admit there is victimization
then they need to admit to having wrong thinking or that they, too, have
been victimizers. Everyone likes to think they are upright and honorable
and they have a lot of difficulty in seeing let alone admitting to having
done wrong. Unfortunately, the lack of sympathy stems from CENTURIES
of brutality. There is a fear of admitting to weakness or or having been
taken advantage of. That fear is loss of respect from others, loss of
employment, and, worse, fear of being victimized even more. Getting these
ingrained tendencies turned around is not an easy task. Refusing to see
that one or others - even an organization - has such ingrained wrong
tendencies and thinking is not unusual. It takes one or others to do
UNusual thinking and examination to see and understand the issues - even
for people who know the true God, Jehovah. Remember, in the entire ancient
Israelite nation, only 7,000 were serving Jehovah faithfully - and HE
NOTICED THEM. This is not an excuse. It's a sad statement against those
who refuse to adjust themselves to the scriptural guidelines of God's
love. They tread on very thin ice in Jehovah God's eyes. That is very
scary - for them. So scary that I, for one, would not ridicule or complain
against or even be glad for their downfall because it is THAT SERIOUS
before Jehovah God.
October 6, 2002
Comment: hi
October 6, 2002
Comment: Still can't find October, last archive is Sept 02. . . no matter
how many times I have gone and come back. *************************Good
thoughts about how bad things are everywhere - one thing I noticed years
ago is that when you have been a victim and you go to court you must
prove how much the offender has ruined your life. It isn't enough that
a crime has been committed against you, but you have to prove how much
damage this has caused to your life. You have to prove that what you
lost was a lot And then like you say everyone hates you if it has caused
you to appear "weak". . . . the victim is damned one way or the
other. ****There is contempt for the victim. . . geeezzz magee. They are
blamed for getting themselves into it, and if that doesn't hold true
because it is a child, then they's better get over it. . . or there is
something deficent in them. The world is sick, we do need God's Kingdom
and we do need to pray for those walking on the thin ice as hard as that
is to do and it is very hard to do. Love, Claudine
October 6, 2002
Comment: VIDEO of Silentlambs MARCH -- Here's another site where you
can watch the Silentlambs March of 9-27-02. This one is in Real Player.
There are two parts of it up already (17 min. each), and two more forthcoming:
http://www. dannyhaszard. com/brooklynmarch. htm ------------- I'm going
there now as my computer wouldn't work at the other site which used
Windows Media Player. Enjoy!! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: PS: Refreshing isn't making the Oct. archived posts show up
on my Mac. I use I. E. v. 5. 1. 5 for Mac, if that makes any difference?
------ That's really pitiful the way those people send viruses to the
webmaster for this site. What drives people to act that way, I do not
get it. -- I got a weird email yesterday addressed to the addy I created
to use on the other forum, so it had to come from someone who saw it
there. And it had some attachment but I did not open it, sent it straight
to the trash. It had a nonsensical subject line, so I knew it was bogus.
And it came from someone named: starsfan50. So Beware! Love/SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: Hey Gang, here's the addy I created for public guestbook/forums/etc. -FYI:
My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com
October 6, 2002
Comment: This is SLC's message. I tried using the "Name" feature
at the comment window, so that's why I didn't sign my name at the end
of the comment, but my name didn't show up once it posted. So anyway,
here it is again. . . My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com
October 6, 2002
Comment: Please forgive me! I guess I'm too tired and not thinking
straight! THE CORRECT ADDRESS for SLC is HERE (Ignore the ones above,
please, as I forgot to add the word: owner, in them)! CORRECT: My_JW_Stuff-OWNER@yahoogroups. com
----- Thanks for your patience! /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, this is a "test" of the guestbook. In
Him
October 6, 2002
Comment: Greetings, it looks like the syntax issues are solved. Thanks
for your patience. In Him Webmaster. . . . . .
October 6, 2002
Comment: I went to www. silentlambs. com and www. silentlambs. org and,
in both cases, I still cannot get Oct. 1 through 4 postings.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Hi
October 6, 2002
Comment: AP: BILL BOWEN ARRESTED! Bill Bowen, administrator of the silentlambs
web site is in police custody tonight after being caught doing unspeakable
things to stuffed toys. A staff member at silent lambs said "I couldn't
beleive it. I walked into the store-room and there he was, naked from
the waist down, indulging in some wierd sexual fetish! It was then I
realised why all the lambs had large holes in the back of them!" The
stuffed toys, which are sold by the hundreds, were analysed and found
to contain traces of Bill's masturbatory emissions. The "abused
lambs" were too traumatised to make any comments today.
October 6, 2002
Comment: This new guest book is pretty gay. why don't my name show up?
And no more web links to click on. Maybe you just want to keep people
from finding out the real truth about bill. Also some of my posts have
been deleted. I don't see how the security is better. Why don't you block
out those great big long posts that idiots keep posting ? It takes ages
to load the damn page. And the font is too small. blah.
October 6, 2002
Comment: yes I think the guest book has been a roaring success! Another
grand victory for the silent lambs! I think I will go masturbate now.
B. Bowen.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Who are the other 4 alleged GB molesters? Has it made the media
yet?
October 6, 2002
Comment: Whoever wrote: "And the font is too small. blah. " -----
All you have to do is go to your browser's menu bar under View, and drop
down to TEXT ZOOM, and you have total control over the size of the fonts
on ANY webpage. --- Now say "THANK YOU" like a good little
troll and run along (maybe spend some time learning your computer instead
of writing vulgar comments. ) /SLC
October 6, 2002
Comment: "When the wicked ones sprout as the vegetation, and all
the practicers of what is hurtful blossom forth, It is that they may
be annihilated forever. " (Ps. 92:7-NWT) ------------------------- "When
the wicked ones SPROUT as TROLLS, and all the practicers of what is HURTFUL
blossom forth by posting their vulgar UGLINESS all OVER the Guestbook,
It is that they may be annihilated from posting forever. " (Ps. 92:7-SLC
version)
October 6, 2002
Comment: What is a troll? The term "troll" can mean a number
of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to
have 'pleasure' at your expense. If you find his posts about Bill Bowen
upsetting rest assured THAT was his intention. He is a person who is
psychologically disturbed, and seeks to feel good by making other guestbook
members feel bad. His post make this pretty obvious. He is filled with
hate but he is ill, too. He is a sort of "psycho troll", whose
deception involves deceiving himself as well as others. He probably believes
he is serving God or at least the governing body. In this respect, he
is no different to the sorts of people we meet in everyday life who are
disturbed - some of them are easy to spot, and others aren't. However,
in the real world it is easier to avoid this animal.
October 6, 2002
Comment: I saw the "Sunday" program in Australia yesterday
- it was excellent! The comment about "Waiting on Jehovah" is
all the advice the victims ever get. Well, Dear Governing Body, the Waiting
is OVER and jehovah will execute his vengeance on you all!
October 6, 2002
Comment: I was part of the Jehovah's Witnesses about 6 years ago. This
religion has broken my immediate family apart, my sister was sexually
abused, possibly by her father (not a JW but was involved with the 7th
Day'ers) and I now have no contact with them and haven't for around 2
1/2 years. I was totally shocked when I read the articles on this website,directed
to it by a recent report on TV here in Australia. My heart goes out to
everyone who has suffered!!
October 6, 2002
Comment: thank you web master for bringing some sort of good here. .
i will look foward to supporting the lambs. and not having to fight with
the jw's here . . . it will work out. . . hi to all the girls. . if they throw
me off. . i will be with all in my heart. . love to all i'm still doing
my part. . . . john
October 6, 2002
Comment: i still see noname mary jane posting. . with his crap!!!!webmaster
if you want me to be polite. . please remove this garbage. . or i will
respond . . if you dump me so be it. . . john
October 6, 2002
Comment: Dear Webmaster, The guestbook is wonderful. The print is easier
for me to read. I'm sure there are bugs to work out but we are grateful
to have your help. Thanks!!!
October 6, 2002
Comment: I would jut like to say that I am sadened by these outragous
allegations against the JW church. It's about time a legal investergation
was carried out by American law enforcement officals which saw the home
office raided noly then will the true severity of this problem be known.
My heart and tears go out to all those who have suffered at the hands
of this criminals, and there protectors. johnalan@totalise. co. uk
October 6, 2002
Comment: Hey john, go play on the freeway or something. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002
Comment: And you, SLC - misquoting the bible, shame on you. Now run
along like a good little troll. I think I hear bill calling you. The
anti-john.
October 6, 2002
Comment: "Let fornication and uncleanness of EVERY SORT or greediness
NOT EVEN BE MENTIONED amoung YOU, just as it befits holy people; neither
shameful conduct nor foolish talking nor obscene jesting, things which
are not becoming, but rather the giving of thanks" (Ephesians 5:3,4)
Just how does this disgusting talk about Bill Bowen fit into the mind
and heart and MOUTH of a true Christian? If some or all here are so terrible,
how is your speech going to help them to be recovered? What kind of a
person, Christian, are you? I think a DEPLORABLE ONE - the reason people
will speak abusively about the true Christians. "However, there
also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be
false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive
sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy
destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their acts
of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be
spoken of abusively. " (2 Peter 2:1,2) These words are talking about
YOU, pig mouth!
October 6, 2002
Comment: Well i must say its an interesting site i am a practicing Jehovah's
Witness and certainly do not condone any sort of child molesters . i
must say i am truely sorry to any vitims if they have not been looked
after and it the allegations are true it certainly does reflect badly
on the organization. Having said that however i thing i do disagree with
is that some say we can't be reformed Jehovah's organization is constantly
being reformed and if Elders are guilty of not reporting these crimes
then i hope the society will take the appropriate action. Only 3 weeks
ago a letter was read out in our congregation clearly stating that victums
certainly have every right to go to the approprite authorities. i've been
in the truth about 18 years now been in about 5 congregations and in
only 1 have i seen any case of child molesting obviosly thats 1 too many
however i know that this person certainly was not protected and as far
as i know when people found out about him had nothing to do with him
even though he has not been reproved at the time how ever he is now disfellowshipped
and hopefully the authoritys will have been notified of his actions.
October 6, 2002
Comment: Oct 05, 2002 . . . Suit targets Jehovah's Witnesses Benton complaint
about sex abuse and church policy is said to be the first of hundreds
across the U. S. By Jennifer Rouse Mid-Valley Sunday One excerpt:Time
passed, and Davidow didn't see anything being done, either to help her
son or to discipline the offender. She continued to ask the elders what
they were doing about the issue, the lawsuit says. Eventually, she contacted
the elders at the North Corvallis congregation, where the alleged abuser
and his mother were members. "The elders of (Corvallis congregation)
instructed her to 'stop talking about it, we've got it handled,'" the
lawsuit states. When Cathy Davidow finally reported her son's abuse to
the police, she was disfellowshipped. Tyler was not disfellowshipped
but chose to leave the faith on his own. http://www. midvalleysunday. com/display/inn_local/news02. txt
October 6, 2002
Comment: FYI: Some of the people who administer the site have reported
receiving viruses by e-mail. I would like to point out that most viruses
are sent unintentionally (ie. a person receives a virus in e-mail and
as soon as they open it, the virus e-mails itself to everyone in their
address book) Please do not assume that you are being personally targeted.
There are some very prolific viruses spreading at the current time. Go
to the antivirus research center at http:www. symantec. com and look
up the details on the new viruses that are spreading like wildfire at
the moment. It is unlikely that someone could target you deliberately
unless they had access to virus source code. prof
October 6, 2002
Comment: I have a fleshly sister who is also supposed to be a spiritual
sister that is vile and foul-mouthed and likes to write such derogatory
things. She doesn't see the inappropriateness of her conduct and speech.
When people react, rightly, indignant at her, she thinks it's FUNNY.
The foul-mouthed, disrespectful and arrogant person posting here could
very well be her. I wouldn't put it past her. She's been known for using
phoney names and different email addresses to harass others. I have nothing
to do with her. There's no doubt in my mind that she's a sicko. Yet,
she "knows the right people" and seems to always get away with
her deplorable behavior. However, Jehovah God sees her and hears her
and he knows the WHOLE STORY. You see, he's not just HER witness, he's
OUR witness, too. He knows it ALL. Trying to lie to Jehovah God is the
stupidist thing anyone can do. Yet, when people don't accept responsibility
for their actions and try to cover them up, that's exactly what they're
doing. When elders make an accounting for those in their care, they need
to remember that Jehovah God doesn't care that they're elders. He cares
how they treated his sheep. If they're liears, they're liars - elder
or not. Same goes for my insane sister. I agree, such a person is psycho
sick.
October 6, 2002
Comment: To the "pig mouth" person and the other comments
about foul speech: I AM NOT A JW. And since when do you make the rules
for me? And how about telling john to tone down his foul speech and threatening
posts. Sorry, I forgot. He's not speaking against your precious lambs.
And what about Bill ? I think he's a pretty big hypocrite considering
what I read about him on this web site: http://www. bill. bowen. isgay. com
Foul speech is one thing, but that's just disgusting. The anti-john.
October 6, 2002
Comment: hey ask your sister for me how can I get a fake e-mail addy
October 6, 2002
Comment: Really i mean come on , I cant work out what you peole are
talking about. I dont think you even know what you are talking about.
The fact is that these people need to be punished for such inhuman acts
and in time they will be.
October 7, 2002
Comment: "I Put My Sex Abuse Dad in Prison. " is the title
of a two-page article about Alison in the "Real Life" Section
of the November 2002 issue (pgs. 20-21) of the UK's most popular teen
magazine, "Sugar. " The below link will take you to the scanned
copy of the article. Alison, as you know, is the young lady who was featured
on the BBC's Panorama show regarding the JW sex abuse in the UK. -----------------
Please Write a thank you to the editor and/or reporter for this article.
I think it's a great idea to put a story like this in a Teen magazine
so other young ladies will know what to do should anything similar ever
happen to them. Good job Sugar Magazine and Alison! ------------ You
may also write Alison herself, as she posted this here in our Guestbook
in July after the BBC program. Thanks! /SLC ------------ Hi. I am Alison
Cousins who you will have heard about in the BBC program, if any person
would like to write to me about the program or give me there comments
please feel free to do so. My email address is: SANDYCOUSINS@HOTMAIL. COM
Looking forward to hearing from you. Good Luck and God Bless, Bill.
October 7, 2002
Comment: HERE's the LINK to the above article about Alison: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=37985&page=1&site=3#516899
----------- And Here's the email addy for "Sugar" teen Magazine:
websugar@hf-uk. com -------------- It seems you cannot put those little
pointer/quote marks on each side of the URL nor on Email Addy's, because
if you do, then they do not show up in your post here. ---- We're learning
new rules for how this new G-book works! ;-) /SLC
October 7, 2002
Comment: I have just read the Oct 8 1993 Awake! and I see no endorsement
for obstructing police or telling abused children to remain silent. To
the contrary the article encourges children to tell their parents and
the parents to believe them even if the abuser is the other parent! The
reason given is that kids do not have the resources adults have. Be careful
about going ahead with a class action as everyone knows when money is
involved the truth is never told. Here in Australia a class action against
a sport coach was dismissed because the allegation were proved false
and based solely on greed and wanting money by the alledged victims.
So suing the org. when they have openly in that Awake! encouraged victims
to speak out and parents to take action will only lead to more sorrow
for the victims. When individual elders take it upon themselves even
to defy the scriptural injunction about respect for the law (Romans 13:
1-4) then the organisation is clearly not liable when they have advised
otherwise.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Oct. 7
October 7, 2002
Comment: I was both fascinated and horrified by the material in this
website,about a third of which I have examined in the past few hours.
It is now listed with my "favourites". I was brought up in
the "Truth" and have now been disfellowshipped for four yrs.
I was sexually abused by my father from the time I was brought home from
the hospital until the abuse was reported when I was six. My parents
separated at this time, divorced when I was eight, and my father was
killed in a hit and run accident when I turned nine. I continued to be
molested by non-Witnesses, until at thirteen (with only a year or so
abuse-free), my mother finally met and moved in with a Ministerial Servant
in a neighbouring Congregation. In full knowledge of my past, he continued
where the others had left off, at a time (puberty) when my mind and body
were at complete war with one another. . . . My body finally awakening to
the sensations, while my mind was screaming NO! this is wrong. With my
background, for a while, I almost accepted the situation as being 'normal',
even 'natural' behaviour on his part, and as such offered no resistance,
even tacitly encouraging Him. The only thought that soon prevented this
was remembering all the scriptures in Leviticus about the 'wrongness'
of 'laying bare the nakedness' of close family members, and the consequences
of doing so. The situation was eventually uncovered, when he accused
me of sleeping around, and even tried to pin blame on my own brother
(falsely). I had remained silent mostly because I felt my mother was
finally happy again, and didn't want to jeopardize her happiness. But
after all this, I eventually screamed: "It was you!" at Him,
and Mum just happened to overhear. He then tried to lay all the blame
on me, claiming that I instigated every act, tried to touch him sexually
(a thought that repulsed me as he was almost 70), and that I belonged
in a home for wayward girls. When the matter was brought before the Elders,
I was the one viewed darkly, and felt to be a threat to other males in
the congregation. On a personal level He even had the audacity to tell
the principal of a school that Mum tried to enroll me in that 'I could
not be trusted around any males'. Had the matter not been reported to
the secular authorities, I have no idea what would have happened. He
and Mum were both disfellowshipped from the congregation, but for living
together unmarried, not due to the abuse. I tried to get my life together
(after my older brothers took over my care), but in 1994, after finally
discovering what a true loving relationship was like, and finding it
impossible to remain alone, (and having been publicly reproved from the
platform for my resulting conduct) decided to skip the country, and try
to make a 'fresh start' with a 'clean slate' in South Africa, where no-one
would know anything about me, or my past, other than what I shared with
them (which I did, a little too freely). I eventually met and married
one of my romantic interests, the only way I felt I could return to the
Congregation without feeling like an absolute hypocrite. In 1996 (after
having had my handbag taken at knife point by a 'local'),I brought my
new husband home to Adelaide and in order to prove that I was truly prepared
to 'let bygones be bygones', we even stayed in Mum and her now Husband's
home. There was some attempt to get my husband interested in 'the Truth',
unfortunately knowing my history, he was little impressed that both Mum
and Partner had been not only re-instated in the Congregation, but were
even permitted to hold a Book-Study in their own home. Not to mention
that my own brother (now an Elder himself) greeted my arrival with "You
know you are never going to get away with this", after two years
or more of not having had any communication with me. I had privileges
taken from me in the Congregation belatedly for my misconduct prior to
my marriage, but eventually after many months regained my standing in
the congregation. Finally after three-and-a-half years of marriage, my
relationship fell apart, and my husband and I separated. When I eventually
took up with someone outside the Congregation (and before things got
too out of hand), I was reproved, and eventually disfellowshipped, effectively
cutting me off from the only true friends I had ever known, the Witnesses,
all 5000 of them (this is about how many I knew by name or face by this
time). I am now in a happy and loving relationship with a non-Witness,
but my past certainly scarred my life. Despite all this, I bear no grudges
against the Society, and am deeply saddened that Jehovah's own reputation
is being dragged through the mud through the misconduct of his 'Special
People'.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Jayson, come check out my new group! http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
Linda Thoman
October 7, 2002
Comment: To the person who just posted their story this morning, I wanted
to say Welcome to Silentlambs. We hear you, and understand the difficulties
you've experienced. Many of us have experienced similar things ourselves.
Linda Thoman
October 7, 2002
Comment: To anti-John: Those scriptures are found in the BIBLE and they
apply to anyone that wants to be decent. IF Bill Bowen is what you say
he is, you STILL do not have the right to talk as you do. JOHN has been
repeatedly told about his speech. Read back to numerous posts in August
and September. He, himself, stated in a recent post that he's aware that
he can be banned from the group. Don't mistake patience with acceptance.
The words found in the Bible apply to all especially to you and anyone
else that is INFLAMATORY. This isn't the place for cussing and brawling.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Fixed some minor glitches such as (" " was ' ")
So We had to get that resolved. . . Anyway . . . If there is any more glitches
please report them to the webmaster. Thanks, JV
October 7, 2002
Comment: I still can't get 10/1-10/5/02 posts.
October 7, 2002
Comment: The Watchtower has had a history of saying one thing in literature
and doing another in practice. This double standard is what has gotten
them in trouble. . . . . Hopefully all eyes will be open now.
October 7, 2002
Comment: For those who would like a copy of the posts from October 1
to October 5, contact the webmaster at webmaster@commservco. com and request
in subject line "GUEST BOOK". . . . . webmaster
October 7, 2002
Comment: SLC----I tried to go to your group and couldn't find it. Is
there a specific page you can go to? To all the new ones welcome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love,Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 7, 2002
Comment: Hi SLC: You had mentioned a little while back that you would
like to hear new ideas and thoughts on the Bible, as you wanted to resolve
Bible questions regardless of the source. I found some information I
thought you might find helpful and useful in your search for real "truth".
********* 2-KINGDOM CONCEPT -- A Great "Sacred Secret" (Mark
4:11) *************The Bible shows the Kingdom of God that Jesus himself
referred to in John 18:36, "which is not of this world", is
NOT one and the same with other mentions of "Kingdom", like
the "kingdom" mentioned in Daniel 2:44, which crushes "all
other kingdoms" upon earth and "it itself stands to time indefinite".
Instead the latter is an earthly "kingdom" which exists and
acts more as an extension and physical representation of the Grander
Heavenly Governmental arrangement or "kingdom" in Heaven. So
the Bible teaches us that God actually has two (2) distinct and separate "kingdoms" or
governments that he uses to accomplish all of his purposes, of which
it is to be understood the earthly arrangement is always subservient
to Greater, All-Pervasive Heavenly Governmental arrangement that was
promised to Jesus Christ. Here is a simple breakdown of each. ****************
1) The earthly government mentioned above is indeed an earthly "kingdom" or
government that actually starts out here on earth, as the "tiniest
[smallest] of mustard seeds" from a human standpoint, but grows
up to be a powerful EARTHLY GOVERNMENTAL arrangement which eventually
engulfs the entire earth. Interestingly, this earthly "kingdom" was
foretold to have the most dubious beginning, even something that could
be "despised" by man because of its "smallness" --
before God exalts it to earthly greatness. (Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45;
Ezekiel 17:22-24; Zechariah 4:10; Mark 4:30-32) This earthly government
will be headed up by a mystery figure, unknown to mankind today, and
yet vividly described as being the "Chieftain" of Ezekiel 44:1-3,
45:22 and 46:16,17. He will prove to be a "christian" follower
of Jesus Christ and will rule the earth from this new future "temple" arrangement
spoken of in Ezekiel chapters 40-48. This EARTHLY government will be
eternal and everlasting. (Daniel 7:13, 14, 18) We can be assured of this
because of what Ezekiel himself said about that holy city, "The
name of the city FROM THAT DAY ON will be Jehovah Himself Is There. " Thus,
this "kingdom" or "city" that sits upon a great and
lofty Mountain, actually lasts forever. It is God's Earthly Governmental
Arrangement. (Ezekiel 40:2; 48:35) ********************* The prophets
of old referred to this earthly kingdom many times. For instance, Isaiah
and Micah showed it as being "Zion", a lofty mountain, where
countless nations willingly "beat their swords into plowshares" and "learn
war no more". These individuals literally "stream" to
this new earthly governmental arrangement, in the "final part of
the days". Daniel referred to it as a "Mountain of Decoration" that
Jehovah God protects from the attack of the "King of the North",
in the last days. But before this new governmental arrangement can take
place, serious issues have to resolved. Godly discipline must come upon
earthly "Israel" as God's seat of governmental rule, before
the full establishment of this new earthly government. Once established
and "Israel" is restored to God's full favor, it then begins
its rule over earth everlastingly with God's backing. (Isa. 2:2-4; Micah
4:1-4; Daniel 11:44,45; Isaiah 4:2-6; Micah 4:6,7) *******************
Unbeknowst to JWs and the WTS, this explains why Revelation 5:9, 10 shows
this "kingdom" actually rules "UPON THE EARTH", rather
than "over the earth", just as the WTS' NWT Kingdom Interlinear
Word-for-Word Bible clearly shows. ******************* 2) Of course,
this earthly kingdom definitely differs greatly from the "heavenly
kingdom" Jesus spoke of and primarily directed his first century
christian followers to look to as their "heavenly inheritance".
The earthly "kingdom" would always operate UNDERNEATHE the
Heavenly Governmental arrangement as a subsidiary or extension of that
all-pervasive government in Heaven. This is true at all times. Nevertheless,
God's word shows the heavenly governmental arrangement of Jesus, definitely
was NOT to last forever or eternally. The particular governmental arrangement
that Jesus spoke of clearly existed IN HEAVEN, where Jesus Christ and
his associate kings and rulers were to rule in the very presence of the
Great August One, Jehovah God. This clearly is a UNIVERSAL RULERSHIP,
including all of God's creation, visible or invisible. Its scope covers
both heaven and earth, as Jesus said at Matthew 28:18. Jesus was to have "authority" over
both "heaven and earth". The Bible shows this "rulership" actually
started in the first century starting with Jesus' heavenly resurrection
to spirit life and being "declared a Son" in the ultimate sense.
(Romans 1:4) Jesus became a "conqueror" at this time. Also,
Jesus promised his disciples that they too would become "conquerors" too.
And as such, they would join him in that particular heavenly rulership.
They would be allowed to "sit upon his throne", just as Jesus
had been permitted to "sit upon Jehovah's Throne" in heaven.
(Rev. 3:21) ****************** But this kingdom's seat of government
was heavenly, not earthly. This is the vital difference. Additionally,
this heavenly rulership of Jesus and his followers would prove to be
only temporary, and not permanent. Another vital difference. That is,
the governmental rule of Jesus where, as it were, he rules from God's
Throne, sitting at God's Right Hand would not last forever. It would
have definite ending point. It was not meant to last forever. We know
because of Paul's words where he stated that Jesus' kingdom must GO BACK
TO GOD HIMSELF. Jesus must "hand over" the "kingdom" back
to God Almighty. This means at some point, Jesus gives up his heavenly
governmental rule, and returns it to his God and His Father, Jehovah. ************
Jesus "turns the kingdom over" to Jehovah, when Jesus has fully
accomplished Jehovah's will toward the earth, namely by the complete
removal of the effects of adamic death, sin and the complete removal
and destruction of all human "governments and authorities" upon
earth as "enemies placed under his feet" in subjection. (Hebrews
1:3; 2:8; 1 Cor. 15:24-28) *************Therefore, in retrospect, we
see the "kingdom" mentioned in Daniel 2:34, 35, 44, 45 as being "cut
out of a mountain" arrangement that ALREADY EXISTS on earth. I believe
this earthly "mountain" arrangement that already exists actually
represents the spiritual nation of "Israel" upon earth, in
its wayward, apostate state. *************Thus the dramatic scene depicts
God's Mighty Hand rescueing the righteous who dwell helplessly in this "apostate"situation,
and making a "kingdom" of out of them. In other words, Almighty
God selects the appropriate people from that spiritual nation, who would
and should make up (according to His Wise estimation) the new earthly "kingdom" arrangement
of His choosing, and makes them INTO a "kingdom" where they
appropriately rule "upon earth" as Revelation 5:9, 10 foretold.
Thus, these individuals proceed from a previously existing EARTHLY arrangement,
a "mountain" where Almighty God "cuts" them out to
become this magnificent "stone" of authority. And of course,
we notice this "kingdom" stone is "cut out without hands",
human hands, so we see Jehovah God actually does all of the choosing
and selecting of the makeup of this earthly "kingdom" governmental
arrangement that eventually engulfs the entire earth, so no mistakes
will be made in personnel choice. It will be a perfect, earthly arrangement
to God's satisfaction. This is why we can say, the Kingdom that Jesus
referred to in John 18:36, "which is not of this world", is
not one and the same with the kingdom of Daniel 2:44, which crushes "all
other kingdoms" upon earth and "it itself stands to time indefinite".
Instead the latter earthly "kingdom" exists and acts more as
an extension and physical representation of the Grander Heavenly Governmental
arrangement or "kingdom" in Heaven. So the Bible teaches us
that God actually has two (2) separate and distinct "kingdoms" or
governments that he uses to accomplish all of his purposes, of which
it is to be understood the earthly arrangement is always subservient
to Greater, All-Pervasive Heavenly Governmental arrangement that was
promised to Jesus Christ. *************The Scriptures teach the earthly
government can be distinguished from the heavenly one as an earthly "kingdom" or
governmental arrangement that actually starts out here on earth, as the "tiniest
[smallest] of mustard seeds" from a human standpoint, but grows
up to be a powerful EARTHLY GOVERNMENTAL "PLANT" or "stone" which
eventually engulfs the entire earth. Interestingly, this earthly "kingdom" was
foretold to have the most dubious of beginnings, even something that
could be "despised" by man because of its "smallness" --
before God exalts it to its rightful state of earthly greatness. (Daniel
2:44, 45; Ezekiel 17:22-24; Zechariah 4:10; Mark 4:30-32) ***************
Unbeknowst to JWs and the WTS, this explains why Revelation 5:9, 10 shows
this "kingdom" actually rules "UPON THE EARTH", rather
than "over the earth", just as the WTS' NWT Kingdom Interlinear
Word-for-Word Bible clearly shows. *********************** Okay, I hope
this information is helpful to you. Write me back, and let me know what
you (and Bill, Barbara & Joe) think of it, when you have time. Take
care. ******** bjc2read@yahoo. com
October 7, 2002
Comment: This website and this guestbook is a place for VICTIMS of Watchtower
abuse. It should be a place for victims to complain about injustices
suffered and their voices should be heard. This is not a place for ABUSERS.
If the abusers want to silence or attack the victims then they already
have the forum for that. It’s called the local kingdom hall. Not
one word from the broken in spirit validated there. Fake websites fake
press releases etc have no place here. So I suggest we all email info@silentlambs. org
and webmaster@commservco. com Request that the abusive posts attacking
the victims be removed and the offending IP address be blocked.
October 7, 2002
Comment: The Game of Trolling Trolling a game - there is a point to
the game, and that point is to win. There are various ways of winning
for the internet troll. These might include: · gaining credence
for false and invidious ideas · driving victims out of the guestbook · dominating
the guestbook with messages/posts that they have generated · distracting
victims from their own bona fide discussions or objectives. · gaining
attention that they cannot get using their real personalities
October 7, 2002
Comment: Linda, Thanks and congrads on a new "sight. " I applied
so I hope to be accepted soon. Tell Ang I got the "gold star. " I
have agreed to help those in her situation in any way that I can. To
turn your back on a child like that. I hope that "we" are there
for the next person in her shoes. What power that victimizers would loose,
(will loose), as we all join hands and leave them to themselves. John,
as for swearing I know, but to quote John Wayne, "Don't give the "Bastards" the
satisfaction. " I will always love ya buddy; I know that you would
protect those who are inocent, and those who have had their spirit trampled.
Unlike some who need not be spoken of. _-Jay
October 7, 2002
Comment: I thank those who publish literature about the Watchtower.
It has helped me break free. I was fooled by there one sided opinions.
There is much that the Slave does not want us to know.
October 7, 2002
Comment: None of this talk about trolls means anything. Anyone who like
Bill tries to attract followers to themselves for their own glory must
be put in their place. His hypocritical stance is to pretend to be the
only one who "cares" about abused ones. I've seen the pictures
of his so-called appeal and I see the smug look on his face. At least
some of us left the organisation with more dignity. He goes around with
his smart-ass attitude, thinking he is doing something great when in
reality he is merely a tool of satan, a puppet. Anyone who follows Bill
B. is SHIT. I don't care how many relatives/elders/MS's or other JW's
raped you when you were 7. Don't think I don't care about abused children
- I do, more than you know. But those who choose to follow a gutless,
fat, stupid C*NT like Bill B. show how truly worthless you are. You DESERVE
everything you get. The anti-john.
October 7, 2002
Comment: HTTP Error 403 403. 6 Forbidden: IP address rejected This error
is caused when the server has a list of IP addresses that are not allowed
to access the site, and the IP address you are using is in this list.
Please contact the Web server's administrator if the problem persists.
Blah.
October 7, 2002
Comment: HAHA your new guest book sucks as much as you do. Are you happy?
Are you proud now you've started your own cult under the leadership of
your grand "masterbater", Bill B. ? Gather 'round to take the
milk from flaccid Bill B. ! Gather all the lambs to the great circle-jerk!
October 7, 2002
Comment: Comments or complaints contact me at ronpthomson@usa. com Ask
me nicely to stop posting here, or tell me what you think of me. Maybe
I'll reply, maybe I won't. The anti-john.
October 7, 2002
Comment: although these crimes are truely wrong and awful I believe
it's wrong to attach or associate the crimes with the religion. Just
as, you would agree, it's wrong to look down upon a whole race if you
experienced an awful crime from some of them. There is nothing in the
bible that supports such crimes. These things occuring in the org. just
proves once again thatimperfect humans are part of the org. . It would
be the devils plan to make the congragation look bad and discourage anyone
from Jahovah. It's very easy to get dicouraged when you have a bad experience
with people in a congragation but your relationship with Jahovah and
what was given to us as a guide in the bible is what we as individuals
are responsible for and the only thing we have control over is ourselves. Don't
let somone elses imperfection keep you from your relationship with Jahovah.
If you do you're onlly hurting yourself and accomplishing the devils
goals. . to discourage you.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Left the Watchtower back in 1987. Took many years to get my
head straight. (That will explain all the sick posters who support the
Org. on here). My advice to others. Get out. It's a big fantastic world
out there and sorry Governing Body, everything is not black and white
like your underware. Later people
October 7, 2002
Comment: Please check out this new group for those with doubts, those
who've been df', da'd or just want to share experiences. http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
October 7, 2002
Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "the disaster of Armageddon,
greater than that which befell Sodom and Gomorrah, is at the door. " (1946
Let God Be True)
October 7, 2002
Comment: Hi, just wanted to highlight a discrepancy in the news story
regarding Bill. On this particular ocassion, Bill and Kiki were using
a stuffed toy lamb, rather than a gerbil as had been reported in the
Daily Post. And it is evident that the resulting fire was mostly caused
by the flammable nature of the material used in the stuffed toy, and
was not entirely due to the effects of intestinal gases, as had been
reported. "in him"
October 7, 2002
Comment: To those who blame the governing body for the actions of some
of their members - how would you feel if your child committed a crime
behind your back, without your consent and everyone blamed you for it?
Let the victims of abuse and injustice not become unfair themselves.
Speak out by all means - against the abusers, but dont blame all JW's
for the actions of a few. My heart goes out to those genuine victims,
but not to the apostates who may only be after money. The genuine victims
will only suffer more if you go ahead with a class action. user: bioharmony
- Askme. com/Religion
October 7, 2002
Comment: May God bless the Lambs and give them solace and victory over
their enemies. Especially those still caught in the mind-numbing grip
of the borg. May you find the love of the great Shepherd of the dheep,
the Lord Jesus Christ. ALWAYS remember, the true God is not found in
any "organization" He is nigh you, no matter where you are
for He is spirit. The GB and their duped followers are simply a bunch
of UNSAVED, LOST religious sinners. Pure and simple.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Keep up the good work. As odious as the fact of sexual abuse
is, there is a an even more damaging factor to be considered. People
who are enticed into this sick dysfuctional organisation are literally
victims of a mind control system. To be required to read and remember
their strange religious quackery on a regular cycle of three or more
times a week for the duration of your life is imensly damaging to the
psychi-these people are actually suffering from instituitionalized depression!!It
is indeed abuse of mind boggleing proportion. The real issue is that
these people have no voice outside or inside this organisation. This
means that they are trapped for their life. Imagine children growing
up believing that the end of the world is near- don't worry about an
education don't get involved with people from out side the organisation,
and then to be told that they must spread "the truth" so that
they can recruit more dysfuctionality. . . where does it end!!! Suffer
the children indeed. Terry morrison, gold coast Australia.
October 7, 2002
Comment: Thanks JV for continuing to fix the new Guestbook glitches!
----- Welcome to the new reader & lamb from Australia who told her
story on 10-7-02! What horrors you have been through. I am so glad you
are now experiencing some peace in your life. Love /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: To the 10-8-93 Awake! reader: I concur with what someone else
wrote, that what the Society puts in the magazines and has announced
from the platform is NOT what is practiced. The elders have a different
set of "rules" which they receive via orally from the CO/DO
and/or via the BOE letters, many of which can be found on the internet,
so you can see for yourself. It's more of the "Do as they say, but
not as they do" which Jesus spoke about. And lawsuits by abused
lambs is not about money. It's about holding the abuser and the society
accountable for their actions. -- If you keep reading and researching
the matter, you will see. Take care/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi Jesika! I didn't really create a "group" for the
purposes of having a "group. " I merely opened up a yahoogroup
account so I could have an Email Address that I could use for public
places like this Guestbook and J-W. com, where my email at J-W. com is
now "open. " (I never wanted to put my private email on J-W. com,
so this works great for that). As "owner" of the "yahoogroup," any
emails sent to: My_JW_Stuff-owner@yahoogroups. com are automatically forwarded
to my private email. (I like using yahoogroups for such thing rather
than just plain yahoo-email. I dunno why!) ;-) I just read your thread
about going to Vegas and left a post there. WOWOWOW! Have a great time!
Love ya! /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi BJC: Yes, thank you for that info, I did receive it via
email. I haven't had time to do much "serious" reading, but
I have it "saved" in my inbox, and planned to write you a thanks
in return. Now that I see you here, I do say THANK YOU! Best/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: I agree with whoever wrote we should ask for the abusers here
to be blocked. I had thought of doing that the other day, but then I
remembered reading something Bill wrote at somepoint, somewhere (maybe
in the Guestbook months ago), that by letting these posts stand as is,
it just shows the visitors what arses (that's my word for them) people
can be about exposing the abuse & pedophile situation in the org.
--- However, since the troll-posts are becoming more and more vulgar,
I think it IS time we all write and say something. Copy the offending
posts and put them in your email to silentlambs and the webmaster. And
everyone who does so, post back here what webmaster/silentlambs has to
say. OK guys? Thanks/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: I'm sure all of the "honest" people who post here
are wise enough NOT to write Ron P. Thompson, the anti-John, who left
his addy and asked people to write him. Surely he will just sent you
a virus if you write him with your email addy. And he cares about abused
children? Hardly. Nobody that talks like he does could possibly care
about anybody but themselves. If you care about children so much, why
didn't you stand up against the almighty WTS and do something about it?
You're just jealous, Mr. Weasle. /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony wrote: ". . . don't blame all JW's for the actions
of a few. " --- Correction, not "a FEW," but 23,720 "few" who
most if not all have been "covered up" at the DIRECTION of
the WTS. That's where the blame lies, along with the individual elders
who agreed to "pass these things over. " /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Seems we have a lot of JW visitors to the site on 10-7-02!!!
Very interesting! It tells us that they ARE at least hearing, even though
they are still not "believing. " Give it time. . . /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Someone wrote: "Don't let somone else's imperfection keep
you from your relationship with Jahovah. " (That's JEhovah, must
have been a typo). Anyway, Jehovah is EVERYWHERE, not just in the KHalls,
contrary to what we thought/were told as JWs. Jehovah can be found by
ANYONE at ANY TIME. That's the GOOD NEWS. /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Welcome Terry Morrison from Australia. Wow, "GOLD COAST" sounds
beautiful! And yes about the high-mind-control training as a JW. "Thinking" is
not allowed, not after you are baptised. Anyway, welcome! /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Testing Testing (by SLC) to see if a URL will show up using
the quote marks on each side of it such as:
October 8, 2002
Comment: The answer to my above Test is "NO," the URL and
email addy did not show up. Hmmmm. . . . wonder why it does that? /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Question for the regulars here: Do you guys like the "bold" font?
It kinda hurts my eyeballs after awhile. Just wondering what you others
think. Thanks/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: I also do not care for the bold font. Also, I miss the time-stamps
which made it a lot easier to follow threads and jump to certain sections.
October 8, 2002
Comment: To SLC I have to agree with you and Bill about leaving the
abusers on this site vs. blocking them. My x's family were Jehovah's
Witness and were the biggest hypocrites. Every time these people post
it reminds me and I am sure thousands of others that there is no real
change of heart in many of the members. I'll bet some of them are elders
who did some of the abusing. Right HAHAHA? Which congregation do you
oversee? Later everyone Sah
October 8, 2002
Comment: NOTICE: You guys may already know this, but I was just reminded
of it: If you have a "Pennysaver" or "Pennypincher" type
newspaper in your area, they will print "Public Service Announcements" for
FREE. Since silentlambs. org is a non-profit organization, any announcement
by us would qualify. Granted, it all depends on how many such PSA's they
receive each week as to which ones make it in the paper, but if we submitted
one to them every week as a standard practice, that is a great way to
get the word out about silentlambs. It could be short and sweet or up
to a paragraph. Example -------- SUPPORT GROUP for victims of sexual
or domestic abuse. www. silentlambs. org -- #1-877-WT-ABUSE, and/or locally
call #1-000-000-0000 (put your own number there. They may be more likely
to publish your PSA if a local contact person is listed). ---------------
Will you guys offer suggestions: Should we mention the JW religion or
just leave it out? If so, how should it be worded exactly? Maybe like:
----- SUPPORT GROUP for victims/survivors of sexual and/or domestic abuse
by and for members of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Please visit: www. silentlambs. org.
Or call #1-877-WT-ABUSE. Local contact support #1-000-000-0000. ---------------
What do you think ladies (& silent rams?) Thanks for your input.
/SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Yes, I also liked the DATE stamp, and I asked in an earlier
post to the Webmaster, but he didn't answer that specific query. Maybe
they are working on it. --OR-- maybe we can't have everything, eh? LOL!
;-) /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi SAH: Well, it isn't really my PERSONAL choice to leave the
abusive comments in. I was merely stating what I remember reading Bill
had written. Personally, I'd remove all of them! ;-) --- However, your
reasons are valid for leaving them in, and Bill's too. It just gets really
depressing to have to read that garbage. Thanks for the comment, though.
/SLC -- PS: Were you asking me what congregation I oversee? Or were you
referring to the abusive posters? Just in case it was directed to me,
I am Silent Lambs Cheerleader, hence of the female gender. ;-)
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi SLC No not you. I mean the posters like HAHAHA and antiJohn.
I have to credit these idiots for reminding me of my x's family. Good
Jehovah's Witness at the meeting, drugs, affairs, heavy drinking when
away from the Hall. Tell me they really believed. SAH
October 8, 2002
Comment: Brain Teaser: During the first few centuries of the last millenium,
approximately 900,000 Christians were massacred, according to a WT magazine
of 9-1-51. Then in the 1-15-52 WT's Questions from Readers, someone wrote
in asking : "How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation
of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ's body, and which position
was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?" ---
Good question, eh? (My comment: If 900,000 were martyred in those early
years, surely the entire number of 144,000 would have been "used
up" way back then). So how did the WT reply to the Question from
Reader? See the WT's answer here & get ready for your brain to be
teased. ;-) /SLC ----- http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38198&page=1&site=3#518633
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi SAH! Duh! Sometimes I'm a little slow! ;-) Thanks for the
clarification. --- I was a single sis in the cong, so didn't get to "mingle" much
with the Elder Crowd. Most of the "married folks" hung out
together. I knew they had "football parties" at certain homes
to watch the games on TV, etc. I'm sure they got a little rowdy 'cuz
I would hear them talking about it at meetings. But overall I was never
privy to much of the real dirt. Getting an earful these days, though!
(via internet). LOL! /SLC
October 8, 2002
Comment: Thanks Jay for the compliment on the new group. I've got lots
of new pages added already and more to come! Trolls and abusive people
will be banned, no problem. SLC, come check us out! http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
Linda Thoman
October 8, 2002
Comment: Last wk I met a lady in the Superstore. I knew her from the
time I was JW. She tried to avoid me butI took courage and aproached
her. It turned out that she was disfellowshipped and very disapointed
with the " friends" and the Organization. She was DSFL because
she was asking questions. She was abused while in the Borg since tender
age. I will ask her to share her experiences with us on this site. She
is going to sue the WT. Her family was ruined. Hers husband a JW was
cheating on her and married another women. Her son commited suiside last
year by hanging himself with a bed sheet on a tree right beside the local
hospital. The note he left behind indicated great unhapiness in his life.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Question: What does Borg stand for? I think part of it is Organization
but I am not sure of what the B stands for.
October 8, 2002
Comment: "Borg" refers to a fictional race of cyBORGs, cyBernetic
ORGanisms, (part machine/part human or other species) that are the recurring "Bad
Guys" in the newest incarnations of the Star Trek TV series' and
movies. Their goal is to "convert" all unique species into
Borg drones. Their motto: "You will be assimilated. Resistance is
futile"
October 8, 2002
Comment: EVERYONE, I noticed the web hosting for this site is DONATED.
I would assume that the technical expertise is also donated. What does
that mean? Well, in the real world I have to pay $125-$175 an hour to
have my technical difficulties handled. So I’ll bet someone fixed
the guestbook for FREE. Yes, the site might still have some bugs however;
it takes someone’s hard earned knowledge and time to correct them.
So everyone please stop complaining and just thank the webmaster for
the improvements. I’m sure he’ll solve problems IF he has
the time, but we certainly have no right to demand anything. Let's appreciate
the time he has donated. Nancy Naranjo
October 8, 2002
Comment: What happened to this guestbook? This guestbook used to be
cool. Now it's totally gay.
October 8, 2002
Comment: http://www. geocities. com/osarsif/bethsarim3. htm
October 8, 2002
Comment: Nancy N - Yes, advice the society has given elders in the matter
of child abuse is appalling. Has anyone tried an appeal to their disfellowshipping
or whatever else? The society appoints a another committee to look into
the matter, however, they, themselves do not sit in to act in an unbiased
and scripturally and publication-aly educated manner. If the appointed
committee reaches the same conclusion -- ignoring reasonable and logical
evidence -- one doesn't have another place to go and the society won't
bother with it anymore. At this point, one is told to wait on Jehovah
and he'll straighten it out. I just can't see Moses or King Solomon handling
the differences between their people in such a manner. Can you? They
RESOLVED issues between their people, brothers. This current system doesn't
RESOLVE anything and only leaves injured people around. If one objects
to THIS method of handling differences, the FIRST QUESTION is: Don't
you trust in Jehovah to take care of this matter? I don't believe that
is the issue. I don't believe Jehovah God wants people walking around
mentally and emotionally (even physically) wounded waiting for him to
step in. It's my opinion that when matters fall into Jehovah's hands
that he isn't going to be happy because he'll know that we didn't respect
him and his instructions to go about quickly resolving issues between
us. Resolving issues doesn't mean that the victim or injured party needs
to carry wounds around. It means that their wounds have been "cleaned
and dressed and kissed" TO AID IN THE HEALING PROCESS. I see no
healing, love, trust, AFFECTION -- I only see very, very HURT PEOPLE
who haven't been reassured of God's love and the congregation's love.
People who haven't had care and affection. People left alone to either
bleed to death or to stop bleeding on their own, so to speak. Healing
can take place in such circumstances but NOT WITH JOY AND LOVE. The pain
NEVER goes away. I don't believe that's the kind of resolution to issues
among us Jehovah God wants. It's not representative of a compassionate
and loving God that has affection for his people.
October 8, 2002
Comment: If you are "infected" by the borg in the fanasy world
of Star Trek you no longer have your own personality. "You service
US" I. e. The borg collective. They add whatever worthwhile traits
that you have to their own in a delusional attempt to achive "perfection. " They
cling to that old the creed that they are the most "perfect" race
of living beings ever to exist. You can exist around them and not be
part of the hive if you are not percived as a threat or a prize. As a
threat if you stand against them then, you are distroyed. (However it
is amazing what happens when people work together to resist. ) They have
great abilities to adapt/overwhelm to/the offensive or defensive abilities
of others they are admerabile as much as they are scary. The real comparasion
to the WT and the GB is that the "slaves" in the WT are totally
expendible as are the "borg drones" in the star trek saga.
The "drones" do as they are commanded as do the "slaves. " Once
infected "drones" work to infect other people including fellow
individuals, friends, and family that do not want to be assimilated.
Most important "will" is overwhelmed and they serve a master
that has total control over them. To move against the hierarchy in any
way = death. Again compaire to the WT and the slave class. There are
comparisons except it is really giving the WTBS way to much undeserved
credit and power. They are but like a fly comapaired to a cobra in abilities,
(compared to the borg). At best they are "borgish. " For some
with an open mind could/should see the common threads without being either
insulted or terrified of the Jehovah's Witnesses ideology. I'm not.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Oh, sorry, did I mess up your guest book ? Well, too bad. Ron
P. Thomson (alias The Anti- John) is here to stay. I will continue to
post THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT BILL. http://www. bill. bowen. isgay. com
October 8, 2002
Comment: Hi Ron P Thompson(Anti-John) You truly must be one of the stupidist
persons to sit at a computer. A half brick is much more dangerous than
a full brick. What that means Ron is that if you throw a half a brick
it will travel farther than if you throw a full brick. The same goes
for a half lie vs. a full lie. A half lie/half truth will travel farther
than your overwhelming Bill stories. Your so far out in left field that
you even a Jehovah's Witness would be ashamed to be associated with you.
So keep going with your big stories from your little mind and you will
be our daily entertainment. Someone has to play the fool.
October 8, 2002
Comment: The "borg" is just about any organization and, even,
relationship that's ever been know by humans. That includes marriage,
too. Why should the humans in the Watchtower be any different from all
other humans? They, too, have to sort through all the "borg" stuff
the WORLD MAKES SOCIETY BELIEVE AND LIVE to get to the truth from Jehovah
God the same as anyone else. Do we expect them to be DIFFERENT? I do.
It's very disappointing to find people that are intellectually enlightened
that still exercise in some things, agreed serious things, the BORG OF
THE WORLD'S THINKING AND METHOD OF HANDLING THINGS. Each individual person,
no matter who they are or what position they hold, has a very difficult
time SEEING that it is THEY who are having a BORG MOMENT in their mind
in some matters -- that THEY'RE carrying on wrong thinking and need to
change THEIR mind and actions over. Life's tough and most people don't
get past the physical necessities to figure out and understand that their
MIND and HEART needs to be fed, revised, adjusted and that it's a constant
thing so that they can get more and more of the WORLD'S BORG OUT OF THEM
-- even JWs!
October 8, 2002
Comment: AP: BILL BOWEN LAUNCHES NEW WEB SITE! Bill Bowen, administrator
of the popular silentlambs. org web site devoted to JW abuse issues has
just launched a new web site for JW's and EX-JW's - you can find it at
www. silentmasterbaters. org. Bill Bowen said today: "lambs, there
is no need to struggle with your masterbation problem alone! Now you
can talk to other masterbaters on the all- new guest book". In related
news, Bill Bowen also revealed today that he is gay. [the anti-john]
October 8, 2002
Comment: Keep those e-mails coming, folks. The anti-john. ronpthomson@usa. com
October 8, 2002
Comment: hey linda thoman, can I join your watchtower excape group?
I already excaped but I thought it might be fun. p. s. your spelling is
almost as bad as johns. Excape, indeed. Or was that just a (clever?)
play on words ? The anti-john.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Left the society in 1993 after reading the book by James Penton.
Never looked back.
October 8, 2002
Comment: Just got done looking at the pictures of the march! Right On
everyone. You were representing the thousands that could not make it
such as me. Just remember. ONLY PRISONS HAVE WATCHTOWERS
October 8, 2002
Comment: . .
October 8, 2002
Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "If the wicked system of this
world survived until the turn of the century[the year 2001?], which is
highly impobable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible
prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War 1 generation.
However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication
that 'the conclusion of the system of things' is moving fast toward its
end. " (WT Oct 15 1980 31)
October 8, 2002
Comment: Ron . . . . . Since you are going to be a regular poster I would
like to welcome you to the silentlambs website. I noticed you mentioned
you had also been abused. I hope you receive counseling or other help
to overcome your difficulties. Although I find your ridiculous newspaper
articles highly offensive I must admit that they are well written and
humorous. Maybe sharing your misery here will bring you peace. Sincerely
Nancy Naranjo
October 8, 2002
Comment: Ron, I asked RJ and now I ask you, "What do you want?" "How
can I help?" I would rather not have you as an enemy. The people
who are called the "governing body" put forward very bad opinions
as biblical/dogma law about how to handle very henious crimes. Many elders
take their appointing like a ruthless lord. (Not everyone) Some seem
to have the mentality keep the peace at any and all costs. Inocence be
damned. These who did, these men who were co-abusers by proxy are just
as accountable. (Maybe more so) I assume that you do not approve of the
rape of children (or anyone) I assume that you are not in favor of the
beating of women and children. I hope that I am not singing to a bag
of jelly beans. It seems that accept by a court of (real) law these men
will not be held accountable. They have caused the divison here, not
bill, the anderson's, the lambs, me, or you. Unless you belive these
men divine they are just plain old men. And as men they are acountable
for their actions and the words (policy/doctrine/dogma) that they put
forward. To cover up that which you do, to lie about it, to refuse to
accept responsibility makes you unbelivable and there for not respectable.
(of ill character) JW's as they learn what are the facts of the WT they
will not be pleased. I don't know if this is the end of the road for
the WTBS. They are in control of that. (maybe) But if they can not face
their actions; Then a lie can only fool or intimidate for so long. Propaganda
in a black form is always temporary. When propaganda as leadership fails
it is sudden; Where and when we do not know. I wonder how many families
and how many kids, wives, husbands, and friends would not have to suffer
if the GB/WT would just mind thier own bee's wax. -Jayson
October 8, 2002
Comment: Bethel offices have issued directives in accordance with the
contents of the Oct 8 1993 Awake! published by the governing body of
JW's worldwide. Nowhere do any of those letters say "Obstruct police
investigations" or "be silent and dont report abuse to the
authorities" It is only referring to how the elders must deal with
pedophiles who may have offended many years before they became Jehovah's
witnesses. The local elders are not the long arm of the law with respect
to illegal immigrants either. Im sure many reading this would be glad
of that. But if a complaint comes up or there is a police investigation
they must co operate in accordance with Romans 13:1-4. Also the question
of clergy/laity or doctor/patient confidentiality comes into it. But
rightly elders should advise offenders to fess up. However if in Court
a judge orders an elder in thw witness box to tell the whole truth, then
Romans 13:1-4 applies.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Well i've been reading through alot of different comments no
doubt there are many different opinions too. However one thing we all
agree on is child molesters are bad. No doubt anyone who hates Jehovah's
Witnesses will grasp at anything to try and rubbish the good people in
the truth. There are a couple of things i'd like to clarify 1/ Some people
have stated that they would or have been disfellowed shiped for going
to police about child molesters that can not be true no one is disfellowshipped
for that. disfellowshipping is for unrepentent wrong doers. It is a last
resort used by the Elders if all consell has failed. 2/ The society to
the best of my knowledge has never ever said children or parents can't
go to the police. 3/ Parents are ultimatly responsible for there children
and bare responsiblity for there childs welfare not the elders. 4/ personally
i think all these child molesters and homosexuals should all be wiped
from the face of this earth, however after learning about love and forgiveness
i know that we must forgive also. And that is why some child molestors
have been accepted back into a congregation if they have sincerly repented.
This is what God has told us to do. The only reason i can come up with
as to why some elders have tried to cover child molestion up is perhaps
there was some nepitizm infolved . This of course doesn't make it right
. And certainly does bring reproach upon Jehovah's name. Titus1:16
October 9, 2002
Comment: Silent Lambs press release 9/19/02 Quoting a letter sent from
Bethel to all congregations in the UK: "Our position is that the
secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin. To avoid
a miscarriage of justice elders must not interfere with, prevent or impede
any secular investigation into child abuse. They must ensure that secular
laws are adhered to. (Romans 13:1) To that end they are instructed to
contact the legal dept. at Bethel whenever they receive information from
even one person that child abuse has occcurred. When a report is received
guidance is given by the legal dept to ensure that 1. The alledged victim
and other potential victims are protected from possible abuse 2. The
counsel is given to report crime to the proper authorities and comply
with any additional legal requirements. " This is totally contrary
to the claims made by others on this Guestbook that instructions given
to elders in letters are different to those in the Oct 8 1993 Awake!
Mr Bowen raises the question that the above recommendations do not occur
in the the same letter sent to US congregations. An error of omission,
a typeset error, someone forgot to Save those sentences when putting
the data into the main computer - whatever reason there is no possible
just cause to deliberately omit those words in the US letter and include
them in the UK. Im sure all of is here have made similar msitakes. To
err is human, to forgive divine, to make an issue out of an honest mistake
is unreasonable.
October 9, 2002
Comment: EXCELLENT OBSERVATION from a post on 10-5-02; 12:10:18; which
read: ----- "I figured this out a long time ago and I believe it's
true -- they (elders) like to let each one of us feel as though we're
the only one having a problem (no matter what the problem is) and make
us feel isolated from all the rest. That, in itself, changes our behavior
and we isolate ourselves because we believe (for lack of compassionate
caring and clarifying) that we're the only ones with the problem, too.
This helps to sweep unpleasant matters under the rug. " --------
That is so true. Not sure why they think that way. It could be due to
the SECRETIVE NATURE which elders are supposedly sworn to, i. e. , to not
tell what the bros/sis tell them. When a person has a problem and feels
NO ONE ELSE has the same problem (I remember that feeling MANY times
during the 11 years as a JW), it is so true what the above person wrote,
it changes your behavior and makes you feel like there's something wrong
with you and you alone. What needs to be done is revamp the entire atmosphere
of congregations and make them OPEN, i. e. , have OPENLY-KNOWN support
circles/groups for, say, single parents, or divorced ones, or single
sisters, etc. But instead, they have always "FROWNED" on any
such "SOCIAL" gatherings saying instead, GO OUT IN SERVICE
MORE. So you go go go go out in service, but you still feel ALONE WITH
YOUR PROBLEM. NOT a good atmosphere, not at all. Here's hoping they wise
up and change things for the uplifting of spirits of all concerned. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: BTW, THANKS to the WEBMASTER for getting those OCTOBER 1-5,
2002, POSTS up!!! The link to them is now CLEARLY SHOWING UP on the GUESTBOOK
PAGE. Hurray! & Thanks again! /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Hi Linda! I promise to get over to your site and sign up soon.
I did "stop by briefly" but I couldn't find my MSN passport
info, which is on a piece of paper around here somewhere (drowning in
little pieces of papers!) I was able to see your "main page," though,
and Wow! You definitely have a lot of links up there already! You've
been working very hard on it, I see! Great job!! Hugs/SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: That is SO SAD about the young son who hanged himself with
the bedsheet! I hope you can help your DF'd friend. Suicide is no joke.
Been deadly-close to it myself several times, earlier years and then
when all the abuse issues came out early in the last decade. It's a miracle
I'm still here. Thankfully, all is so much better and I never feel that
way anymore. That boy must have been in DARK DESPAIR, which is a really
BAD place to be. Personally, I think it's DESPAIR that causes suicides.
I'm so sorry for that lady. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Seems we have another "blind" JW Defender Visitor,
who also doesn't have the courtesy to use a handle (give himself a code
name) so that I may properly address that person: That person wrote:
----- "1/ Some people have stated that they would or have been disfellowedshiped
for going to police about child molesters that can not be true no one
is disfellowshipped for that. " ---- Sheesh! Where have you been?
With your head in the sand? That is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS and HAS HAPPENED
OVER & OVER, when an abused lamb wants to warn others in the cong
of the pervert who is still IN the cong, they have been told over and
over they will be DISFELLOWSHIPPED IF THEY TALK ABOUT IT TO THE OTHER
MEMBERS OF THE CONG. ---- Sir, you have no idea what you are talking
about. Rose Colored Glasses you wear. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Someone wrote: --- " However if in Court a judge orders
an elder in thw witness box to tell the whole truth, then Romans 13:1-4
applies. " ----- Well, we all know it is SUPPOSED to apply, but what
is done in REALITY is NOT WHAT YOU SAY. The elders will LIE LIE LIE and
use the "excuse" that it is THEOCRATICE WARFARE. Go read all
of the information on the BOER v. WTS case that was just heard in CANADA.
Those elders on the witness stand lied through their teeth. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: PLEASE DON"T BE SO IGNORANT about CHILD MOLESTERS! PLEASE!
--- Someone wrote: --- "And that is why some child molestors have
been accepted back into a congregation if they have sincerly repented. " ---
A child molester CANNOT SINCERELY REPENT. They CAN PRETEND to be "repentent," but
THEY WILL WITHOUT A DOUBT CONTINUE THEIR PERVERSIONS. Please go EDUCATE
YOURSELF on the subject of molesters/pedophiles/abusers before writing
such NAIVE information. You only make yourself look foolish. There are
links on this site (go to the home page), and/or just do a search on
the internet. READ & LEARN & then come back and say something
intelligent and we might believe you then. /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: Looks like we have Bro. Sainthood Elder here, who wrote: " to
make an issue out of an honest mistake is unreasonable. " ----- Gimme
a break. Since WHEN does the WTS make TYPOS? And to make an issue out
of CHILD ABUSE POLICY INSTRUCTIONS IS MOST REASONABLE. --- Also, what
the WTS PRINTS in BOE's, magazines, KM's, etc. is for PUBLIC CONSUMPTIONS
(whitewashed), and NOT WHAT ELDERS ARE VERBALLY TOLD by CO/DO's in the
SECRET elder meetings after assemblies/conventions and when the CO/DO's
have the secret little meetings at the KHalls. They are SO GUILTY, and
they KNOW IT, that they NOW tell elders: Hear What We Are Saying, but
DO NOT TAKE NOTES. Elders cannot even write down the "dirty work" instructions
being given VERBALLY at the training schools and other "secret" meetings
for elders only. They are not allowed to bring tape recorders, they cannot
bring cell phones, etc. WHY IS THAT? Because the WTS DOES NOT WANT WHAT
THEY ARE SAYING VERBALLY to be IN PRINT ANYWHERE, not even in an elder's
own handwriting on a piece of paper. WISE UP FELLA! (or lady, whoever
you anonymous people are). /SLC
October 9, 2002
Comment: The elders and the organization are both liars. You can tell
about the organization by all the big claims through out their 120 years
history and then the coverups. This group represents Jehovah??? I think
not. Ron
October 9, 2002
Comment: To the person who quoted the unverifiable statistics about
the WT pedophile register - 27000 represents 0. 5% of the total of 6,000,000
JW's or 1/200 JW's. The ugly statistics on pedophilia world wide - 1
in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys will be sexually abused by the age of 18.
That means in effect with the average no of children per family being
3 that 25% of the general population are pedophiles! Hence to say that
JW's have the largest number of pedophiles in the community is simply
untrue. And that's if the unverifiable number - 27000 is correct. Satan's
world is a seething cesspool of debauchery and degradation. Of the 27000
only a relatively small number would be convicted pedophiles as the register
has the name of anyone who has had a complaint made against- even if
only by one person. bioharmony
October 9, 2002
Comment: What's all this BS about theocratic warfare and lying in Court??
Theocratic warfare is a fight not against the courts, police and secular
rulers but against WICKED SPIRIT FORCES. Ephesians 5:10-12. Court transcripts
can be wrong. I know first hand as I was in court years ago with a Statutary
Declaration and the transcript of the words were nothing like what was
read out off that document !! One witness actually evaded a question
and both the Q and A were omitted (they had not been order to be omitted
as the other side's lawyer did not object).
October 9, 2002
Comment: Why not an honest mistake - a typo error? Perhaps you can come
up with a reason why it would be deliberate????? Im glad Im not nmarried
to you - if you cant see an honest mistake hitting you between the eyes
you would eb very hard to live with! By the way Im not Bro Elder - I
am a woman and I was sexually abused as a child, NOT by a JW, even though
I had been in the truth since I was 7. It was an outsider - a swimming
instructor.
October 9, 2002
Comment: testing
October 9, 2002
Comment: For reference the 27k molesters that are going out to people's
homes without any warning from the WT. That is the statistic from the
U. S. Candada and Europe. That is not the statistic for the WOrld wIde
JW popualtion. You qouted the whole population and came up with . 5% of
the population. A small number, yes. Smaller than the national average
of 1% by half. Of course we are also discussing how those cases are being
handled or swept under the rug. (Is the porogitive to protect the relgion
or the people) True the people who elect to go to the police may not
be DF'ed for proptecting themselves and everyone else. No, they are disfellowshipped
for "causing division. " OR, some other trumped up charge. But,
the underling factor is that they broke the unwritten code of do not
go outside the inner circle. 'Do not think for yourself about what is
justice. ' (Those are my opinions) Now back to statistics, if you take
the 27k number of molesters that are in fact given a haven in the wt
rarely given to such creatures in any society and factor for one or two
million members you get quite a different number as high as 2% of the
popluation of jw's. That is double the national average. Do the statistics
for yourself. Some will peddle bullshit and try to spin the facts. Others
will look at numbers and try to prove their point but, the numbers do
not lie. Do it for yourself; And, there are not 5 or 6 million recorded
jw's in the US, Canada, and Europe. That there are somewhere up to to
2% of the population of them that are preditors is again reasonable by
national statistics and by the wt's own records. They do wish to keep
this private and that is in the favor of the criminal not the person
wronged. The big mistake is the the name WTBS is not the name of God.
One does not bring "reproch" upon God by protecting society
from criminals. One brings "reproach" by allowing evil to spread
ramped. -Jayson
October 9, 2002
Comment: I have been a JW since 1986, have been active and in-active
over the years, been married and not married also. And I have seen what
good elders can do and what bad ones have done, up close and personal.
Being a single mother with a heavenly hope, 'they' come after you and
your children like you have a target on your back. They, in God's name
will lie, intimindate, or whatever it is in their means to distroy my
relationship with Jehovah. I have tried hiding from them, changing congregations,
marrying outside of the congregation so they have to go thru my husband
to get to me, I have Matthew 18ed congregation overseers, ended up in
the hospital for stress related illnesses, etc. I have lost faith in
men not Jehovah. As far as the organization goes, even the governing
body legally separated its self from the organization. In Daniel 11:31
and Matthew 24:15, the 'disgusting thing' standing in the holy place
refers to those bad elders. And in Luke 16:15, Jesus refers to the 'elders'
of his day as a 'disgusting thing' in his Father's sight. I, personally
like to refer to them as hypocrites just as Jesus did in Matthew 23.
Please don't lose faith in Jehovah because of men. I beleive His promises
written in the Bible and I beleive Him. You don't need a hall to beleive
or worship Jehovah, He is everywhere!!! And all that call on him will
be saved(Acts 2:21)in these end times. Agape.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Hi, My 40 year old sister has been a Jehovahs Witness since
1986. We grew up with sexual abuse at the hands of my moms husband. None
of which were JW's. But I think the way JW's reperesented themselves
as one big happy family seemed to appeal to her. I was studying with
them at the same time as she was and red flags came up when I saw how
controlling they were appearing to me. I question EVERYTHING. I never
take anything at face value that I am told and they didn't seem too happy
with that. It caused alot of division between my younger sister and myself.
We were always so close. She seemd to have some scriptures memorized to
answer alot of questions to support their beliefs. But, even after all
these years If I ask her about a scripture that seems to contradict some
of what she has ben told she will stammer and not seem familair with
it and say,"let me talk to an elder and i'll get back to you. Then
she would call me back and say "No, that isn't so". as thouh
she just took his word for it and didn't really do any research herself.
My sister is a very kind person and I have met some really nice JW's.
I'm sure that would never harm a child. She says how they ahve a loving
small congregation in her small town. Well, that may be so and I'm glad
for her. But, that doesn't erase or negate the other congregations where
it may be happening and being covered up. I plan to print out some of
the victims stories. I don't know what she will think of it. I'm not doing
it to attack her organisaztion. We both swore years ago that we would
never remain silent about children being abused. As a rule she tends
to pooh-pooh any negative thing said about JW's. She almost looks smug
aabout it as though that's just further proof that they are being persecuted
as the true church. I have always thought it was a little more self righteousness
then true humility. I don't even know if she will read any of the information.
Maybe she will since she is also paronoid someone will try and hurt her
little girl after the way we grew up. But, that would be the only thing
that would inspire her to read any of it. Personally, no organization
tells me what to read or do. Although I am careful to try and read articles
of substance. I mean I don't read romance novels or porno. Not that romance
novels are bad. I used to like them as a teen. I WILL however look into
allegations as serious as child abuse or other important issues. Or if
an accusation has been made against my church. Our church knows this
about me and they encourage us all the time to "prove all things".
Not to just accept what they or anyone else has to say about the scriptures
without checking it out themselves, and praying on it. God won't leave
you floundering in darkness. And you don't need any group to tell you
what he has to say on it. Yes, I go to church. I love the people there.
However, I follow no group or man. Only God. Then I don't worry about
being lead down the wrong path. I DO look into things and read the Bible
and pray and see what God is telling me in his word about it. Sometimes
all it takes even is just the good sense he gave us to know the difference
between what is real and false. I'll let you know what she has to say
about the literature I give her about the victimes stories. Sincerely,
Windy
October 9, 2002
Comment: I don't understand. Why do people waiste their time posting "Attacking" material
when in all people who read this just skip on and don't give a crap what
or who. They are here for the purpose this website brings. Not to listen
to some punk who thinks he can bring down the owner of this site . . .
Sue me :) -JJV
October 9, 2002
Comment: JJV- If you are new here then welcome. You will not need a
lawyer with me young lad/laddy. It is hard to understand the postering
that goes on. But it does and will continue. (Unfortunaly) There is much
anger here. Many JW's feel that anything that shows them as less than
obtaining the perfect strikes at the real heart of the issue. That if
they are not special as a religon then they might be just plain ordinary.
If they are not the "divine truth" then think of all the needless
suffering that goes on. So anger is better than doubt. Attacking is a
better defense for flawed character that wants to maintain the status
quo then to admit fault take responsibility and make good on the harm
that has been done. I have a 4 year old. If he messes up and says he
is sorry that does not always make it ok. There are consequences for
actions taken. It is my opinion that rather than working on true forgiveness
the JW's allow thier elders to pardon people or not. That has little
to do with forgiveness as forgiving is an internal act. Pardoning is
an external act done by one with either authority or power to do so.
Talking about such things as forgiveness Vs. pardons chips away at an
authority personalities power base. Thus the slander. namecalling. yadayadayada. . .
But in order to help these people sometimes some of us have to stand
on the bridge and say "no one may pass. "-Jayson
October 9, 2002
Comment: Just testing
October 9, 2002
Comment: I was shocked to read an article about the dateline show and
even more so when I read all this on silentlambs. org. I too was raped
by a member of the congregation and was interogated by the elders chosen
to investigate the incident. They basically blamed me for the entire
thing, I was 12 at the time, but as I got older began to understand better.
The man who did this was reprimanded and they even found out he had done
this to several other girls. However, our entire family was shunned from
that point on and we ended up moving out of town because of this. J. W.
was our life and that came to a screeching halt. I got out of the religion
as soon as I was able and I would never go back. They are hypocritical
and very wrong. I have somewhat gotten over what happened to me but I
will never forget.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Anti-John, No to your first question. . . and correct on the comment
about my cleverness. Windy, welcome to the guestbook. Linda Thoman
October 9, 2002
Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/nowwhat. msnw
October 9, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony……I think Jayson answered you pretty
clearly on the 23,720 pedophiles on record. But I would like to add----there
are less than 2,000,000 witnesses in USA, Canada and Western Europe.
The largest percentage of JW’s are women I’m guessing only
40% or less are men. According the US Dept of Justice 94% of all abusers
are men. Most pedophiles have multiple victims. Dateline covered the
story of Fitzwater who had abused 17 witness children. The Australian
news show covered the story of a witness who had abused 40 children in
various congregations. Now multiply the 23,720 pedophiles by the average
number of victims---I'll use a low figure how about 12? Equals 284,640
VICTIMS!!! OUR innocent little children. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THERE
IS A PROBLEM???????
October 9, 2002
Comment: Dear lady who was raped at 12. I am so sorry, so very sorry
not only for the abuse but also for the way you were treated. I unfortunately
do understand very clearly what it is like to be treated that way. I
know what it feels like to have the rapist in the same hall and hear
him comment. I remember the sound like a screech on a chalkboard. I know
the desire to run, to think you can not stand to be there another minute.
I know the confusion and the terrible hurt and finally the anger. I know
the betrayal by the elders--that they would support him and not you the
INNOCENT victim. I know. . . Maybe calling that lawyer will help. . . Kimberlee
D. Norris attorney at law kdnorris@airmail. net 817. 335. 2800 314 Main
St Suite 300
October 9, 2002
Comment: hi all i'm watching. . . alot of good stuff. . . slc;; good idea
about the penny pincher i have to go there next week. . . they for years
made flyers for my pizza store. . . they know me. . i will ask them. . . funny
theres a slow guy there . . . i would always talk to him. . you know give
him my order. . . well guess what he got sucked up by the wt. . . worked
him over on time in the street, with 2 elders. . . wait till i get them
to print about the silent lambs. . . think i will play with him at the penny
pincher. . in front of all the other workers. . sure he tried to convert
them. . . this will be fun. . slc please e mail me so i say the right thing
when i go there. . . love john
October 9, 2002
Comment: Wroug, there are over 6 million witnesses world wide. I. E.
6,000,000 in the world.
October 9, 2002
Comment: What does a truly repentant pedophile look like????? What does
a truly repentant pedophile look like that deserves forgiveness???????
Although, we cannot read hearts we can interpet action as to acts of
repentance. ********any man who calls himself a "christian" and
touches a child is in a league all by himself. ******any pedophile who
calls himself a christian and isn't broken to the heart, cut to the core,
and doesn't show acts of repentance equal (as if that were possible)to
the disgusting thing he did THEN WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE FORGIVE
THEM??? 70X7 was about insults NOT CRIMES and certainly NOT CRIMES AGAINST
A CHILD in our PROTECTION. ******There is nothing in God's word that
makes a mockery out of forgiveness. And if a pedophile does not show
acts of repentant evident to the victim then there is no cause to forgive.
A repentant pedophile wouldn't want or need the support of the congregation
- he would want that congregation to support and help the victim. That
would be an act of repentance worthy of forgiveness. I have not heard
one story yet that describes such a situation - have you????? A mind
that is so warped that his christian conscience would not prevent him
from touching a child in the first place doesn't have a christian conscience
at all. And there is nothing else that can save him. All the forgiveness
in the world won't save him - only cut to the heart repentance will.
And that is up to him.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Linda Thoman I think you are not nice for refusing to let me
into your Watchtower Excape. You are shunning me and I don't like that.
the anti-john.
October 9, 2002
Comment: JJV, you are an idiot. You talk about some punk who thinks
he can bring down the owner of this site. Well, guess what? I can, and
I will. Biding my time, for now. The anti-john.
October 9, 2002
Comment: I must say I strongly agree with the very insightful comments
posted above about pedophiles. The facts are clear: 1. Pedophiles DO
NOT HAVE a conscience, and never will. 2. Pedophiles are utterly selfish
to the core, such a person CAN NOT reform, nor can there be any redemption
for them. Not even God can save them. 3. A pedophile who has abused even
just one child forfeits ALL rights as a human being. But, I think we
need to be extremely clear on our definition of a pedophile. Pedophile
registers are all well and good, but often include, for example, a man
who touched up a 15 year old girl (with consent), hardly in the same
league as preying on school age children. As for the real, bona fide,
dyed-in-the-wool pedophiles, my preferred course of action would be immediate
castration. I'm sure the parents of the victims would feel the same way.
Once again, it also comes down to the burden of proof. There must be
CLEAR evidence, not just repressed memories. RPT.
October 9, 2002
Comment: To: Subject: Sorry, your membership application was denied
for Watchtower Excape, an MSN Group. Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:21:08 -0700
We're sorry, the anti-john. Your application for membership in Watchtower
Excape was denied by the group's manager. » Could this be a mistake?
If you think your application was denied by mistake, you can apply again.
When you fill out the application, be sure to type a message explaining
why you want to join. The group manager has the right to allow or deny
membership. » What else can I do? Search for other groups to join
or create a group of your own.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Nice try Anti-John, but no dice. Funny since you decided to
try to sign on under another handle too, Aardvark something. LOL Nice
try. Trolls are not welcome in my group. Your hateful comments here,
inflammatory comments are not welcome on my group. Even if you managed
to slip in, the first hateful, inflammatory comment, you'd be banned
instantly.
October 9, 2002
Comment: To bioharmony: Sorry, your math is flawed. You are suggesting
that each molester only attacks ONE child. The sad reality is that each
molester attacks multiple children, some have over a hundred victims.
This certainly puts a wrench in your stats. CJV Ont,Can
October 9, 2002
Comment: There is an article written by Patience Mason called FALSE
MEMORY SYNDROME V. S. THE LYING PERPERTRATOR SYNDORME: THE BIG LIE. Go
to patiencepress. com and look for Free Download enter and look for Article
#4. *************This article is information as to the validity of "repressed
memories" as a way to block out what cannot be sanely taken in. . . it
is God's way of protecting us from what we cannot emotional process.
***** I am aware that there are some awful people who do yell "rape" and
know for a fact that these women have put innocent men in jail -for a
fact I know this. But the majority of the victims are for real. Even
if we knocked 1,000 reports off the total 23K it is a problem. ********How
many there are is too many, how the WTS forgives them is wrong, and how
the victims have had to fend for themselves is outrageous: GIVEN THIS
IS A CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION USING JEHOVAH'S NAME TO HIDE BEHIND. Please
take the time to read Patience Mason's articles and newletters. She is
very articulate and knowledgeable regarding trauma - child rape and molestation
is a trauma. A nugget of this information can really be helpful in helping
those who are suffering. My guess there are more "unreported" real
molestations than reported false ones. Alot of people are silent out
of fear and shame and exhaustion. Love C. E.
October 9, 2002
Comment: We're sorry, Anthony C. Aardvark Your application for membership
in Watchtower Excape was denied by the group's manager. » Could
this be a mistake? If you think your application was denied by mistake,
you can apply again. When you fill out the application, be sure to type
a message explaining why you want to join. The group manager has the
right to allow or deny membership. » What else can I do? Search
for other groups to join or create a group of your own.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Anthony C. Aardvark is my friend. Linda Thoman you are very
bad person for not letting him in. And when have I ever post inflammatory
comment here? I think this is your imagining things. You are shunning
me and calling me troll. This is not nice. I do not like you. the anti-john.
October 9, 2002
Comment: And one more thing to think about: a pedophile who causes a
victim even more pain by watching them struggle with having to face them
at a kingdom hall or in court, watch the victim struggle with their sanity
and is not moved to do something to relieve the pain they caused and
continue to cause is heartless. The elders and jws who support these "repentant" pedophiles,
so there are now 100 people watching the victim suffer are even more
heartless and worthless in their walk with Jesus. In fact, they are not
walking with Jesus at all in the company they keep while they watch a
young person struggle. Wicked, heartless, not knowing the meaning of
forgiveness. Flaunting their "inferior" forgiveness for the
sickest of the sick, while showing no affection for the afflicted: is
the hypocracy the Jesus hated and is spoken about in the gospel. Amen,
C. E. (geeez magee. . . don't get me started!)
October 9, 2002
Comment: Everybody come to my new group to excape from the evil Bill
Bowen. I will post the link later. So far we has 2 members, that is me,
and Anthony C. Aardvark. We welcomes everybody and does not shun anyone.
the anti-john.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Along with your thoughts Jayson- it is arrogant to think that
I can forgive something that was done to someone else. How easy and meaningless
to forgive someone that harmed, possibly ruined someone else and didn't
do a thing to me. . . or my family. I don't have the right or the power
to forgive the person who harmed you. It is a betrayal and disloyal as
well as totally without meaning. Spiritually shallow and a mockery of
forgiveness that makes people "feel" superior while acting
inferior.
October 9, 2002
Comment: Forgiveness is an internal mental act that does not necessarily
imply the external act of pardon. Forgiveness puts aside the desire to
hurt the person who has hurt us or a loved one. It presupposes the knowledge
that we really have been wronged and that such wrongdoing ought to be
hated. Forgiveness leaves off hating the person. I could forgive a person
and still think that he ought to be punished. That's because punishment
is not to get back at the wrongdoer but to restore justice in the community
and virtue in the wrongdoer. Thus Pope John Paul II forgave Ali Agca
for the attack upon his life but still thought it appropriate that he
be punished. We are always free to forgive others, whether we insist
on their due punishment or not. Since forgiveness is an act of will,
we need only will it to be done. On the otherhand to Pardon is an external
act that does not necessarily imply the internal act of forgiveness.
Pardon puts aside due punishment for some greater good. It presupposes
the knowledge that there has been a wrong done and that ordinarily it
ought to be punished. There can be many motives for the pardon genuine
love for the offender need not be one of them. We might pardon an offender
because our show of mercy would make a good impression on some person
or a group of people. (Ask yourself do you see that this person has wronged
someone? Do you refuse to insist on a due punishment for the wrongdoer?
If so, then you pardon the offender. )-Jayson-Taken from Montague Brown's
Book "Philosopher" 'forgiveness/pardon.
October 9, 2002
Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/mindcontrol. msnw
October 10, 2002
Comment: I am always saddened to read the stories here. I submitted
a bit about knowing of molesters in the congregations I had attended.
Sadly, I now believe my sons were molested a few years ago by someone
in their dad's congregation. I have no real proof and not even a whole
name. My kids were being babysat by a JW family,all in good standing
when suddenly their behavior changed. They both started wetting the bed,
fighting violently with other kids, refusing to bathe etc. My older son
even killed a kitten. My older son's teacher also reported that he was
showing himself to other kids and touching other kids. So an investigation
of sorts was launched. The only clue was that the 3 year old had mentioned
that a son in the babysitting family had hurt him. My ex said he looked
into it. . . and no one would talk to me. I couldn't even get their names!!!
Resourses being stretched to their limit DYS did not investigate. . . I
hired three therapists in succession and have even consulted a psychiatrist.
My older son who has far more likelyhood of remembering and accurately
reporting is clammmed up tighter than tight. The little one was a late
talker with a limited vocabulary. I know my kids were victimized, but
I don't seem to have any options. Thanks to anyone who reads this and
doesn't just disregard it. ~Witch
October 10, 2002
Comment: Hi Witch: my children were threaten with me being killed first
and then them - so of course they didn't tell. I have no advice to give
you as to how you get to the bottom of what happened. I only have this
probable reason of why they are not telling. I would contact Bill and
he can direct you to resources for help. First and foremost is to protect
your children and then be a constant comfort to them until they feel
safe enough to tell. What a hugh job you have ahead of you. And it may
not be the JW babysitter - you need to suspect everyone until your children
tell you. What does your husband say about the children's bedwetting
and inappropriate behavior at school? Is he concerned and realize that
something is terribly wrong? Have you been able to engage him in helping
the children??? There were signs from my children but 33 years ago no
one knew what the signs were. . . so I didn't know either. This is all too
sad. First step is to keep them safe and when they are safe they will
tell. Why is there a babysitter during his time with the children? Love,
C. E.
October 10, 2002
Comment: I'm a JW and I refuse to walk around acting perfect. I am in
the sense that I live a moral life - make appropriate decisions as to
what is right or wrong but I don't see that for a reason to brag or raise
myself up over others. After all Jesus came to find those who are sick
and in need of his help. I see no end to my needing his help. I see no
end to ANYONE ELSE needing his help. When his rule is over, I see no
end in ANYONE ELSE or me in needing Jehovah God's blessings and his kingdom
provisions, including life everlasting. So, how can anyone think they're
not "sick"? We're all sick. Simply studying the Bible and getting
baptised doesn't change all that. Some, though, unfortunately, seem to
think that following a routine and making a good show of being "well" is
what it's all about. Too bad, too bad - for them. The truth isn't a routine
or a show. It's a way of life that is supposed to be satisfying and free
from the contaminating influences, pressures, sins and crimes of the
world. However, the Bible tells us that we shouldn't put our trust in
man but in Jehovah. We CAN have love and affections. We just can't be
believing that everyone is DESERVING of our trust. They each have to
earn it. Jehovah God works at our trusting him. He gives us a lot of
reasons for believing him. He lets us question him. He wants us to know
for ourselves - make sure of all things. Imperfect people should do even
more than that to gain trust from God and man.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Even though I am a JW, I can tell you that I would object to
having a JW medical person of any kind handling my medical records or
treating me. Why? Because if I (or any other JW) came in with an illness
or disease that may IMPLY sexually transmitted, they would report it
to the elders. I had an eye infection that was extremely serious. My
medical book PRIMARILY stated that this infection is sexually transmitted.
I don't have sex. I don't even "play" at having sex. Therefore,
it was impossible for me to get this infection through ANY TYPE of sexual
trnsmission. My opthamologist told me that they don't know why people
get it. Some get it and it goes away (mine did with a medication that
was just as dangerous as the infection, itself). However, with a JW in
the medical practice, lab, or wherever reporting only the surface facts,
one could be hauled in and accused of improper behavior and not care
if it's true or not. That's because we have a lot of uneducated people
overseeing matters they don't understand nor do they have all the facts.
Years ago, I asked a sister that was an RN about the doctor she worked
for (OB/GYN). I needed an exam and testing to make sure I didn't have
cancer (another condition that I couldn't get from sexual transmission
even though many medical authorities say that's the primary of getting
it). Well, I had the exam and, the next thing I knew, she told an elder
in the congregation that he doctor was very surprised with me because
I was so clean inside and that he hardly ever sees anything like that.
Well, of course, I'm clean and I'm sure SHE thought she was being highly
complimentary but I was really ticked off because I felt she violated
patient/doctor/nurse confidentiality. Also, I thought that, maybe, because
my husband and I were separated, that maybe I was led to her ON PURPOSE
just to find out if I was having sexual intercourse. My family is like
the Taliban. One doesn't have to be guilty to be accused and gunned down.
Many people operate like that within the congregation -- their form of
gunning down is gossiping and running to the elders with their gossip.
Even if someone apologizes (which I never got), they can never wipe clean
one or others' reputations. Someone will ALWAYS remember the bad. This
is why I'm surprised that victims are counseled to not tell anyone about
something that IS THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION'S BUSINESS for their and their
children's safety. There's so much gossip that goes on about untruths
and half-truths and no one tries to stop it. Elders engage in it themselves.
I can't leave the truth that comes from Jehovah but I do look forward
to the day when he, himself, rids us of such people. I'd look even MORE
forward to people becoming humble and admitting their errors and making
restitution to any and all they've harmed. THAT would make it so much
easier to have respect for them and would let us all breath a sigh of
relief because we could be real people again (around them). I think it's
called "waiting to exhail".
October 10, 2002
Comment: Witch, I understand what you're saying, and I don't disregard
it at all. My son was sodomized multiple times by an M. S. in a congregation
we attended, and my son was in the second grade. IT all happened during
meetings, in the Elders office, while we were sitting listening to the
meeting. It never occured to us, being a member of a "worldwide
brotherhood", that allowing our son to use the bathroom alone was
odd at all. It was a common thing in all the congregations we attended;
parents letting their young kids use the bathroom by themselves. Suddenly
I got a phone call from his school teacher saying my son had approached
a little girl on the playground asking her if she wanted to have sex
with him! Red flags were flying around my head, as we had not had any
real conversations with him yet about sex, bodies, etc. As you said,
the investigation was on! No matter what words were used to show my son
he could tell us, he wouldn't say a word. We found out many years later
that the man who hurt him threatened to kill all of us and make my son
watch, then he'd kill my son. His behavior changed, he became a very
angry child by the time he was ten years old. Got involved in drugs,
very promiscuous, and even molested his youngest sister, my daughter.
What happened to him didn't become known until his trial for hurting
my daughter. He was sentenced to twenty years in jail, minimum of three
served. He has served four years, and I'm told was released on 10-1-02.
Don't let this slide. . . . another child can be hurt, one very close to
home. I know. Linda Thoman
October 10, 2002
Comment: Actually the stats about 1/4 girls and 1/8 boys being sexually
abused before the age of 18 applies not to the whole world but to western
countries only, as there are no stats on reported cases in other lands
such as China which has 1/6 of the world's population. Hence the stats
do basically compare. 27k on a pedophile register would represent only
about 0. 1% of the total number of JW's in those same countries, whereas
the overral stats of child abuse is 25% in the larger community. Simply
reporting child abuse to the authorities is not a disfellowshipping offense
as it is co-operating with the law with respect to crime. However they
cannot publicly name anyone who has been accused of pedophilia (but not
convicted) in the congregation because of defamation laws!! So if anything
it's the law of the land that prevents them from publicly identifying
these creeps. Well you may say - the law is an ass. I agree - so take
your protest to the Court buildings, not the WT headquarters. Even with
the pedophile problems in the Catholic church, the victims have sued
the local diocese where the abuse/coveups have occurred, not the Vatican.
October 10, 2002
Comment: I THINK THIS NEW FORMAT IS GREAT. I hope in the future we can
put hits on those abusive people and drunkards who come here not to participate
but only downgrade and write bad words to be blocked. We have a need
to express ourselves being that we are former or current witnesses to
discuss here what we cannot say in the Kingdom Halls. Maybe now we a
fresh start to explore ourselves and the religion we chose or was born
into such as myself. With several generation surrounding me it is easier
said than done to break away from some of the lies we know exist. I hope
all of you have enjoyed my last writing and I hope I have encouraged
and brought reality to it all. Child abuse, mental abuse and religious
abuse is bad but it is worse if we cannot discuss it and find ways to
rid it from us and carry on without a heavy grindstone around our necks.
Thanks to you all with kind hearts and to those needing an outlet who
have been injured by my religion. . . . ****THE MOLE***
October 10, 2002
Comment: To the JW who posted about the lack of confidentiality where
it is warranted (doctor/patient),the gossip of untruths and then the
silence when it is not warranted is exactly why I have never belonged
any group of people and prefer to remain independent. I am so sorry that
you are caught in such a "soap opera" - but equally as glad
that you are brave enough to come here and you are articulate enough
to express how terribly unspiritual these people are. Absolutely essential:
be as innocent as a dove but as cautious as a serpent.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Everybody come to my new group to excape from the evil Bill
Bowen. I will post the link later. So far we has 2 members, that is me,
and Anthony C. Aardvark. We welcomes everybody and does not shun anyone.
the anti-john.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Yes, mole the new format rocks. However, I am very uneasy at
the prospect of censoring people, especially "bad words". For
me, swearing like a sailor was somewhat of a release, a way to show that
, no I AM NOT a witness. Twisted, I know. But, it helped, nonetheless.
Besides, as you've seen in some of my earlier posts, I believe that ugly
acts deserve ugly words. All of this "lets just be nice " stuff
is all well and good, but child molesting is'nt nice, it's a foul, disgusting
crime perpetrated on those who have NO defense. Anger in those who have
been raped is PERFECTLY rational, & this forgive & forget, lets
all talk nice b. s. can seem very close to the same complacency the wbts
has shown for years.
October 10, 2002
Comment: This whole problem of cover ups and forcing people not to report
comes down to one thing: smart-ass elders. You know the type. Got the
rose-coloured glasses on. And the spiritual blinders. Can't see to the
left or right. Everything's black and white to them. Can't beleive someone
in THEIR congregation would have a problem like that. No, no we mustn't
bring the law into it! That would besmirch Jehovah's name. We can't have
Jehovah's name being dragged through the courts. That might make us look
bad. The funny thing is, Bill Bowen was EXACTLY that type. Before he
turned into the only thing worse, that is. the anti-john.
October 10, 2002
Comment: the more i read about the wt i'm sure that . they are doing
the work of satan. . when they kick followers to the curb. . with problems
or questions it shows they are only in it for the money. . screw you if
your problems interfer with the preaching (SALE OF MAGS) IT'S THE SAME
OLD SONG AND DANCE WITH THE WT. ALL your problems will be solved with
more fs. . wait on jehovaH AND DO MORE STUDYING. . TRY QUITTING YOUR JOB
AND PIONEER- OR JOIN THE BETHEL THAT WILL SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS. . BULL
CRAP THE WT HAS NOTHING BUT THEIR PRINTING HOUSE IN MIND. . . . FREEDOM IN
CHRIST TO ALL . . . . JOHN
October 10, 2002
Comment: john you are a retard. If I ever met you I would kick you in
the head. Learn to spell and stop using those frigging CAPITALS. the
anti-john.
October 10, 2002
Comment: john drinks his own pee. hehehe.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Stats- I am confused. Here is your post "Actually the
stats about 1/4 girls and 1/8 boys being sexually abused before the age
of 18 applies not to the whole world but to western countries only, as
there are no stats on reported cases in other lands such as China which
has 1/6 of the world's population. Hence the stats do basically compare.
27k on a pedophile register would represent only about 0. 1% of the total
number of JW's in those same countries, whereas the overral stats of
child abuse is 25% in the larger community. Simply reporting child abuse
to the authorities is not a disfellowshipping offense as it is co-operating
with the law with respect to crime. However they cannot publicly name
anyone who has been accused of pedophilia (but not convicted) in the
congregation because of defamation laws!! So if anything it's the law
of the land that prevents them from publicly identifying these creeps.
Well you may say - the law is an ass. I agree - so take your protest
to the Court buildings, not the WT headquarters. Even with the pedophile
problems in the Catholic church, the victims have sued the local diocese
where the abuse/coveups have occurred, not the Vatican. "/// I'm
not sure what you are saying. But here is my take. Why do you state the
25% of the victims in the gerneral population comparied to the 1%+ of
Jehovah's Witness victimizers. Don't you think that a pedifile could
also add to the general populations victims? Once a victim leaves the
Jehovah's Witnesses are they not added to the general popluation stats?
As I see it you are comparing the victimizers numbers to the victims.
I don't see the connection. And, I don't know the number of Jehovah's
Witness victims. Do you? Linda made a guess. But she did not compound
for years and years of abuse that has gone on unchecked. Also if you
are not De'fd for going to the police or speaking out then why are people
being Df'ed? Are you more concerned with CYA than protecting those that
God has in-trusted you with? I'm not. If someone like the brave people
here are comming forward then we should be there for them, no, with them.
If the Church is coveting evil then burn it! Build a new one. And I think
that these brave folks are taking it all the way to the court building.
Goodspeed to them. ! The Caltholic Church also admitted Mea Cupla, Right
next to the article in Newsweek where the Jehovah's Witnesses refused
to even lift a finger to take responsibility for the actions of the WT.
(just my take) Jayson
October 10, 2002
Comment: HI NO ANTI JOHN ; you like my name so much . . . i will start
a group or page . and will let you and all your alaises join it will be
called www. watch the jw's make jack-asses out of them selves . org then
you all can yell at me and worship your god in brooklyn. . . john
October 10, 2002
Comment: Everybody come to my new group to excape from the evil Bill
Bowen. So far we has 2 members, that is me, and Anthony C. Aardvark.
We welcomes everybody and does not shun anyone. If you want to join send
email to ronpthomson@usa. com
October 10, 2002
Comment: Hey Anti-John All this time you are spending on the net may
be affecting your field service time. You had better get back out on
field service and bring in some numbers before one of the elders takes
you into that little room in the hall, pulls down your pants and gives
you a spanking. AHAHHHHHHH
October 10, 2002
Comment: john, this is not the place to share your warped little fantasies.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Well, Jehovah's Witnesses like to point out the faults of others.
When the time came to look them over, they should have been squeaky clean.
They're not. The misrepresentations, outright lies, ANYTHING to minimize
the seriousness of their criminal negligence just make them look dirtier
in the eyes of reasonable people. If they had handled these problems
right in the first place and didn't try to hide them, they would have
gained respect for TRULY upholding God's standards. It's my opinion their
reputation would not have been sullied. They wouldn't have had anything
to hide. They SHOULD be ashamed but they're so deep into their lies they
think they're right and don't know they're disgraceful and THEY have
disgraced their organization and all their faithful -- especially their
living dead, the dejected, hurt and bleeding victims. There's an old
saying: People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Poor little anti-john. He was touched and felt on in his private
area by a MS. Then his own fatehr french kissed him. Now he plays with
himself while sitting in the car during field service while fantasizing
aboout a group-grope witj governing Body. Don't be too hard on him. He
can't help himself. He's just a religious sinner doing what what religious
sinners do. Just make sure you wear rubber gloves before you shake his
jand! Sincerely, the ANTI-anti-john.
October 10, 2002
Comment: Poor little anti-john. He was a crack baby, so his brain and
personality did not develop properly. Don't be too hard on him. Sincerely,
The ANTI-anti-john. P. S. Whatever happened to Brocha?
October 10, 2002
Comment: Hey YOU! Are you tired of being shunned just because of your
sexual orientation? Visit Bill's new support group at www. silentbumjackers. org.
In the online guestbook you can talk to other turd burgulars, poo pokers
and bum bandits just like yourself! And in the handy shopping section,
you can purchase all kinds of products from butt spray to a giant-sized
tub of astroglide! But wait, there's more! Play the fun online games,
such as "Bill's Glory Hole" and "Stinky Finger"!
You'll have so much fun you'll forget that you're a social deviate and
everyone hates you. the anti-john.
October 10, 2002
Comment: OH NO!!! This could be anti-john's toughest assignment yet.
Can anti-john prevail against the might of the superhuman ANTI-anti-john???
Or will he get his ass kicked all the way to Brooklyn? Stay tuned for
more exciting, nail- biting suspense in the next episode of THE JOHN
WARS.
October 10, 2002
Comment: More JW's in the News. . . . Man denies sex attack on girls. . .
October 10, 2002 13:38 . . . . . A WOMAN who claimed she was indecently assaulted
more than 20 years ago by a senior member of the Jehovah's Witness Congregation
in Ipswich has described how he removed her socks and sucked her toes.
http://www. eveningstar. co. uk/content/news/NewsStory. asp?Brand=ESTOnline&Category=News&ItemId=IPED10+Oct+2002+08%3A39%3A05%3A853
October 10, 2002
Comment: Dear "waiting to exhale" your story is so true and
your warning to all JW's should be heeded. I remember a Watchtower article
that commended a sister because she reported some confidental info on
another witness that she had seen in her work in a doctor's office. Scary
isn't it and some people still believe the elders don't engage in "theocratic
warfare". Sorry, folks, but those guys would rather lie to you than
look at you.
October 10, 2002
Comment: The worst thing about stupidity is its insistancy. Jayson
October 10, 2002
Comment: Statistics on sex crimes in the US from The Bureau of Justice
Statistics (online) "On any given day in 1994 234,000 were convicted
of rape or sexual assault. The median age of victims was less than 13" That
means that 50% of victims of sexual assault are 13 yo or younger. And
that in one year 85,000,000 perps. were convicted. 85,000,000 represents
25% of the population of the US at that time. Check it out for yourselves.
October 11, 2002
Comment: HEARSAY: Mr Bowen claims his sources reveal the JW pedophile
register contains 27k names. That's hearsay. Let him come forth with
documentation. And correction of a previous post If Bowen's sources are
correct , 27k represents 1% of the number of JW's in those countries.
(Sorry about the decimal point) See the previous post about the US sex
crime stats for 1994. bioharmony
October 11, 2002
Comment: WRITTEN BY silentlambs (Bill Bowen) Oct 9, 2002 19:18 --- While
there are many doctrinal points that could be debated, I have from day
one endeavored to keep silentlambs focused on one thing, the protection
of children. That is why many brothers and sisters from within support
silentlambs as an organization that works ultimately for their children.
If there were any other motive it would have to be the education and
support of abuse survivors. Through silentlambs more abuse JW survivors
have been given a voice to the media and public than ever before in history.
Personally it is a great source of satisfaction to see that happen. That
in a statement is the direction of the silentlambs organization, a direction
I strongly support and suggest everyone support. --- I have never demanded
people support me or my personal "agendas", whatever that is
I do not even know. I do not have a church, I do not want anyone following
me for anything. I did that for 43 years. If on the other hand I ask
people to come to a court trial to support an abuse survivor, is that
following me? If I ask people to come for a candlight vigil and burn
candles for over 300 abuse survivors, is that following me? If I ask
people to march on Brooklyn, deliver lambs and let WT know abuse survivors
exist, is that following me? I just do not see what I am getting out
of this deal, it certainly isn't money. --- On the other hand if you
were one of those persons who "showed up" and looked into the
eyes of those who have been terribly hurt and see them have hope. . . You
see them finding strength and taking back the power that was robbed from
them. . . You hear laughter from people who haven't laughed in a long time. . .
You see kindness and compassion that has been withheld by those they
hold dear, expressed by people they do not even know. That is the work
of silentlambs, and is not subjecting yourself to the will of Bill Bowen.
--- Child abuse is happening as I write this because the GB refuses to
change WT policy. Call it "black and white" thinking but I
truly believe anyone who comes to a clear understanding of this would
certainly throw their support with silentlambs. We do not ask you to
change your religion, beliefs, or love Bill Bowen, just support JW abuse
survivors and ask for a wicked policy to change. --- I am not going to
hunt you down and kill you if you do not, but I have difficulty understanding
why anyone with full education of these matters chooses to not support
silentlambs. Are you a bad person? Certainly not, but in my opinion you
are certainly missing a great opportunity to help those who truly suffer.
--- We have fought a night and day battle with the media to get the coverage
we have, was it for Bill Bowen's fame and prominence? or was it so more
abuse survivors could come forward? I think you know the answer to that
question. --- As many have stated, more need to come forward and get
involved in the support of silentlambs and I would certainly welcome
fading into the background and let more of a collective carry this load.
This is a problem involving crime that is happening in the here and now.
There are new cases coming in everyday and many involving children, they
need help. --- The cause of silentlambs is we support those who need
it the most and let them know they are loved. If you want to be a JW,
so what? If you hate JW's, so what? We can work together and help abuse
survivors make progress on the path to healing and stand up to those
who hurt them. . . . (Contributed by SLC, post by BB taken from JWD public
forum)
October 11, 2002
Comment: Testing the "NAME" field on the reply/window page.
Did my name show up?
October 11, 2002
Comment: LOL! @ Linda Thoman! I love it! Awwww, poor little anti-john.
I wouldn't let him near any group of mine either. You're on the ball
LT!!! Keep up the good work!
October 11, 2002
Comment: Hi C. E. a/k/a "Don't Get Me Started"! LOL! Keep up
the great posts! You are right on, as usual. Love/SLC (Is the "name" feature
working?)
October 11, 2002
Comment: WELCOME WINDY! Thanks for sharing your story! Also to the other
lady who wrote her story but left no name, welcome, and glad things are
going better now. Love/SLC
October 11, 2002
Comment: Another round of "Pats on the Back" for the GOOD
GUYS-Behind-The-Curtain, in this case, the WEBMASTER(s). They are doing
fine things for silentlambs. God bless 'em all! Love/SLC
October 11, 2002
Comment: Dear Witch: This is terriblel what is happening in your family
and to your kids. I'm not sure what to suggest either. If DYS would not
assist you. Did the therapists interview the children? Are they pediatric
therapists? Doesn't your ex know the name of the family that did the
babysitting? Why will he not tell you who they are? (or did I not read
your comment correctly?) Have you called the Sex Crimes Unit of your
local police department merely to ask for advice as to what you can do?
They might have some ideas. Also, call the local Rape Crisis Center.
They might have some suggestions. I agree with CE who said it could be
anybody that might have gotten to your boys, and not just the JW babysitting
family. I also agree to call the #1-877-WT-ABUSE and see if they can
give you some specific ideas beyond what has been printed here. Did you
read all of the links on the Assistance/Help pages of this website? There
are other organizations for child sex abuse and you may find that one
is in your town, and they also might have even further ideas. Hang in
there, and like CE said, the kids may not yet be feeling safe, they may
have been threatened, etc. Let them know you support them 100% no matter
what, they did nothing wrong, and reassure them no harm will come to
them/you. Let us know how it goes. /SLC
October 11, 2002
Comment: That is absolutely pathetic that RN/sister who told an ELDER
of all people about the CONDITION of the other sister's examination by
the OB/GYN. That sister ought to be hung out to dry, and the elder, TOO,
for listening and condoning it. HE should have told the RN/sister that
she was behaving INAPPROPRIATELY. If I were you, the Patient/sister who
went to the OB/GYN, I would SUE THE PANTS OFF that blabber-mouth RN/sister.
If you know which elder it was, he could be subpoenaed to testify to
the fact that the blabber-mouth RN told him. And even if you don't feel
like suing, you most definitely should fill out a complaint on that RN
with the State Board for your State that regulates RN's, etc. Call your
local city's Medical Society and/or search the net for the correct Regulation
Dept. in your State for RN's, etc. Just my 2-cents. The same thing happened
to me sort of, but it was a JW/psychologist/Jewish/arse who blabbed to
his Jewish/JW/fellow-arses info that was confidential. That was years
ago, and a friend of mine told me years later, but she was too chicken
to act as the witness who heard the "breaking of the doctor/patient
confidentiality" by that creep. /SLC
October 11, 2002
Comment: To slc good to see your reading the Guess book however your
comment about me not knowing what i'm talking about is rather childish
of course i know what i'm talking about . And if you go back and read
what i said "that nobody is disfellowshipped for going to the police. " Is
quite correct. However if someone were to slander someone that would
be a different matter. Obviously for legal reasons elders have to be
careful what they say about disfellowshipped persons because in the past
some have turned around and sued for defamation. hope that answers your
question regards josh
October 11, 2002
Comment: Total Bummer. I posted about 5-7 or 8 posts tonight and they
are not showing up. I have reopened the page several times, refreshed,
shut down ,started over, and they are not there??? I did not keep copies
and just cannot re-do them. Here's hoping they will show up later. In
the meantime, HI ALL! /SLC
October 11, 2002
Comment: As one of JWs for 41years, I can say we are not perfect. But
just like Jesus the majority of us love children, and all our brothers
and sisters, so please do not judge God's Organisation because of the
sickos that we sometimes get, because of our love. If you have been molested
go to the police first.
October 11, 2002
Comment: Just to correct the previous stats: 23720 on the JW pedophile
register ( most not convicted pedophiles) Peak publishers for 2001 in
those countries 1,205,637 which means the pedophiles are 2/100. The user
posting the Justice Bureau stats got it wrong: 240,000 CONVICTED sex
offenders either in prison , on parole etc ( in 1994) -half have abused
kids under the age of 13 - which represents . 05% of the US population
at that time However those convicted are just the tip of the iceberg,
for every 1 convicted there's at least 20 who have not been caught and
convicted. That translates to 10% of the population of the US. Hope that
clears up the confusion. And we do only have hearsay to support the number
of 23720. I understand they keep this register so that if a reported
pedophile who may have abused one child in a congregation moves to another
and is reported by another child, then they can take action both in the
congregation and have evidence for the authorities to prove he is a serial
offender.
October 11, 2002
Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/silentlambs. msnw
October 11, 2002
Comment: hearsay or not,if the figure of 23,720 is incorrect, then i'm
sure the WTS will take Silentlambs org to court. i dont think i'll hold
my breath for that. Rich
October 11, 2002
Comment: SLC - I do put my name in the "Name" space just before
he comment box. It doesn't show up in the comments, though. It's too
many years since the incident with the nurse. However, when I went to
the lab a few weeks ago, there was a young woman standing behind the
desk (an employee) and on her part of the desk, there was the pocket
size NWT. I asked her what that is doing there. She, somewhat defiantly,
said she was a Jehovah's Witness. Her manner made me cautious. She began
her inquisition of me to find out where I live and what congregation
I was in as though she was evaluating if I was a good JW or not. Then
she mentioned a wedding that would be taking place and if I knew them.
I didn't (young people don't hang out with old people). She said the
bride was related to her and she was marrying a MINISTERIAL SERVANT!
Oh, my, what a catch!!! I looked at her gently, smiled kindly and said, "I
was married to an MS, too. I hope it works out better for her than it
did for me. " She was to challenging and combative, especially for
a work place. Considering I am much older, I felt she was out of order
trying to challenge my credibility as a JW. I'm sure time and experience
tells even you that, no matter how enthusiastic and dedicated a younger
person behaves, only TIME will tell if they have what it takes to endure
- that's what cleanses by fire. However, I am tempted to report to the
medical facility the "commission" most all if not all JW personnel
has and that is to report on JWs or those associating if they come through
their medical facility - that they will breach patient/doctor confidentiality
and squeal on them to elders. This, in itself, is not the method of approaching
someone you may think has taken a false step as outlined in Matthew 5:23,
24 (keep going to 25 and 26) and Matthew 18:15. Jehovah God understands
our feelings and he expects us, if we don't understand, to respect them
and the person that has them. The Bible is one huge book of PSYCHOLOGY.
It's all about things a person or people did and the outcome of their
action or actions - sometimes very horrible and sometimes very good.
We, ourselves, choose what we want to learn from these and what we want
to imitate. Since I grew up among JWs, I know for a fact that some, even
those taking the lead in the congregation, spy on others trying to catch
them at something. Then, instead of having the motive, intent, spirit
and working toward a favorable outcome as outlined in Matthew, along
with confidentiality, they use it to vilify one or others. We're dealing
with people who are refusing to make their personalities over. They are
EXCELLENT in making excuses for their behavior. In my experience, however,
NONE dares to use SCRIPTURES to support their behavior. They fall back
on their position, their charm, ANYTHING to distract from the REAL ISSUES
- their behavior that does not reflect Jehovah God's and Jesus Christ's
love and practices, especially in matters regarding interpersonal relations
among their brothers and sisters and the pain we all have at one time
or other in our lives. So many things, in my opinion, would not escalate
to serious conditions or problems if the right help with love was there
when they were minor issues. Some, in the name of the Bible, just harp
and browbeat others until they actually do become what they've been accused
of. I was dismayed when I saw photographs of some of you smoking at the
march. Yet, I know that when one is suffering mental and emotional pain,
they are given to doing things they would not ordinarily do. I hope those
of you who did a lot of things you wouldn't have ordinarily done (and
I believe your "sins" are the result of your abuse and mistreatment
and not because you were "like that" in the first place) find
your peace and hold yourselves errect and be the person or people I know
you are and can be rather than the victim you're forced to play repeatedly
because of the lack of nurturing that's caused you to constantly be in
defense of yourselves - once you figured out it wasn't, I repeat, it
WAS NOT, your fault. Everything the victims have done and been involved
in are symptoms of their original abuse. They are not a statement of
who they really are as a person.
October 11, 2002
Comment: IA'M DELIGHTED TO BE A HOST FOR SILENT LAMBS MARCH ON BROOKLYN
PEDOPHILES.
October 11, 2002
Comment: DANNYHASZARD. COM FOR ABOVE HOST SITE FOR BROOKLYN MARCH.
October 11, 2002
Comment: I have NEVER once ever heard a person blaspheme the god the
Jehovah's witnesses worship because of what a witness did wrong. I have
never heard a person blaspheme Jesus Christ bedcause of what a Chritian
did. This "let's protect the name of Jehovah" business is so
stupid. It's all about "protect the denomination". The true
God does not need our puny little efforts to vindicate Him! We are like
flies (in the case of the anti-john, a fly on the fecal matter he like
to talk about!) on the back of a whale! Fight on silent lambs! Now, anti-john,
get your hands out of your pants and get out to field service! Sincerely,
The ANTI-anti-john
October 11, 2002
Comment: It is reported that the parents of anti-john were closely related
relatives before they were married. When asked about this, the local
Kingdom Hall MS stated that he often wondered why so many of anti-john's
sibling had three eyes and twelve fingers. Sincerely, The ANTI-anti-john
October 11, 2002
Comment: Regarding this statement: . . . I understand they keep this
register so that if a reported pedophile who may have abused one child
in a congregation moves to another and is reported by another child,
then they can take action both in the congregation and have evidence
for the authorities to prove he is a serial offender. . . That sounds
reasonable and sensible and if it was in fact what Watchtower actually
practiced they wouldn't be in as much hot water. In the past the society
has required TWO witnesses for EACH act of molestation. Don't believe
it? Read the Abused Lambs stories here, Watch Alison Cousins on Panorama
(Father had previously confessed to abusing her older sister) On DATELINE
the society had records of Fitzwater abusing 17 kids, in Australia a
boy named Simon reported an abuser and that abuser had previously been
reported but he continued to abuse 40 others. NO, the society doesn't
keep these records to PROTECT the children!! In our hall a convicted
molester was treated as innocent because he had only one Victim. He confessed
to the court, the results of a rape test proofed him guilty, etc, etc,
but the Society viewed him as still innocent. Is his name on the list?
Probably, but so what?
October 11, 2002
Comment: If you want to discuss Department of Justices Child Abuse statistics. . . . . . here
is the most current brochure. . . . Bureau of Justice Statistics . . . Sexual
Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement: Victim, Incident,
and Offender Characteristics . . . http://www. ojp. usdoj. gov/bjs/pub/pdf/saycrle. pdf
. . .
October 11, 2002
Comment: Dear Ron P, or Anti John, or whoever else your calling yourself
this week. You make up pretty far out stories for your fake newspaper
articles. But can you compete with the TRUTH? Check out this REAL story
about a REAL courtcase in England. More JW's in the News. . . . Man denies
sex attack on girls. . . October 10, 2002 13:38 . . . . . A WOMAN who claimed
she was indecently assaulted more than 20 years ago by a senior member
of the Jehovah's Witness Congregation in Ipswich has described how he
removed her socks and sucked her toes. http://www. eveningstar. co. uk/content/news/NewsStory. asp?Brand=ESTOnline&Category=News&ItemId=IPED10+Oct+2002+08%3A39%3A05%3A853
October 11, 2002
Comment: There should not even be ONE VICTIM. If there's ONE victim,
there should NOT BE MORE victims. We don't NEED TO KNOW if someone is
a SERIAL child molester. He or she needs to be STOPPED WITH THE ONE victim!
October 11, 2002
Comment: SLC-Jehovah does NOT NEED humans to vindicate him but he DOES
USE humans in this manner because the original issue was made BY humans
under the influence of the serpant's allegations against him. That's
why Jesus had to be forn a human, to prove a perfect human COULD stay
faithful to Jehovah and make the LIKE sacrifice (Adam=Jesus) and be there
continually without interruption to make a case in our behalf before
Jehovah God. Humans answer Satan's accusation he made clear in Job's
case -- that we only serve Jehovah for what we can get from him. Therefore,
it IS each human's responsiblity to know Jehovah and to make a decision
as to who they will serve and for what reasons. By choosing Jehovah God
and staying faithful to him, we prove Satan the Devil a liar - there
ARE people who will serve Jehovah, no matter what, in whatever circumstances
they find themselves in, just as Job did as an imperfect man. Our decision-making
won't be over once we're perfect humans. THEN, we get a chance to prove
if we would REALLY be better than Adam and Eve or if we'll follow the
same course they did.
October 11, 2002
Comment: i see i have struck a raw nerve here with some of the jw defenders. . well
thats to bad my posts are based on facts not wt jargon. . call me names
-use my name anyway you like. . . not one jw has ever answered one of my
direct questions here. . it proves my point the wt is full of crap. . everything
from false prophecies to child molesting. . the wt is not from the real
god. . . love to all the lambs. . and screw all the surporters of the god
in brooklyn. . the watchtower. . . may all jw's find freedom in christ .
john
October 11, 2002
Comment: Well, we certainly know that protecting, hiding or denying
that there is an atrocity committed against a child, does not vindicate
Jehovah's name, purpose or God's Kingdom or in any way imitates Jesus.
The pharasees had twisted the law so much that when Jesus did his sermon
on the mount the crowds gathered to hear this extrodinary man who spoke
with authority. Praise God for Jesus.
October 11, 2002
Comment: John, sorry that you have been selected as the namesake of
the single thorn in our side. I really thing that he belives that without
his posts the WT will be abandoned.
October 11, 2002
Comment: its so boring without RJ. i've got nobody to laugh at. RICH
October 11, 2002
Comment: John, John, John, you were doing so WELL, too. Anyway, one
doesn't have to be a JW to know what the BIBLE says. You aren't against
JWs, you're against the BIBLE. Either THAT or you don't know what the
Bible says. You were doing sooo well, too.
October 11, 2002
Comment: To the person who feels a pedophile should be reported if he
has only one victim. The Oct 8 1993 Awake! states very clearly that when
a person reports a buse an adult must take decisive action even if it
means the offender may go to jail! And even if the offender is one's
own mate. So the onus is on the parents or whoever the child reports
the abuse to to ACT and go to the authorities. The register is kept to
protect children from suspected pedophiles. Do Scout groups, schools
etc keep such a register? Do they go that far to protect their young
members? The only problem is that defamation laws do not allow the elders
to announce publicly a pedophile's name, unless he/she has already been
convicted in which case the perps name is already a matter of public
record. I was molested by a swimming instructor who was a member of a
surf life saving club. I never reported, mainly because it became a repressed
memory. And to this day I dont know that creep's name. He was supposed
to be teaching me to swim, but he had his own agenda, and I almost drowned
trying to get away from him. He was not a JW. bioharmony
October 11, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony - apparently you haven't read many of the posts
here or you wouldn't have ASS-U-ME-D that I didn't know there were perverts
in the congregations that have most certainly molested more than one
child -- if not in their current then a combination of congregations.
Also, clearly, reporting to the authorities has been discouraged and
threats have been made about going public with these matters, including
within the congregation. Other people are "gossiped" about
in the congregation without sanction, so why shouldn't people "gossip" about
the child molesters? My point is that there SHOULD BE ZERO TOLERANCE
for child molestation within the congregation and supported by the headquarters.
It isn't that way in reality. I'm sorry you were molested as a child
and, that fact that it wasn't a JW, makes it clear that this is a prevalent
problem everywhere. It should NOT be a prevalent problem within the organization.
As far as defamation, there are SO MANY OF US THAT HAVE A DEFINITE CASE
FOR THAT AMONG JWs but that is not the issue. MEAGAN'S LAW IS LAW IN
ALL 50 STATES. THAT LAW SAYS THAT YOU MOST CERTAINLY CAN NAME SUCH PEOPLE.
THERE'S NO DEFAMATION LAW IN RELATION TO EXPOSING PERVERTS! NO MORE EXCUSES.
NO MORE COVER UPS. NO MORE WRINGING OF THE HANDS SAYING I CAN'T DO ANYTHING,
I CAN'T DO ANYTHING. IN THIS MATTER OF CHILD MOLESTATION, THERE SHOULDN'T
BE ANY DELAYS. - Janice.
October 11, 2002
Comment: Does the 23,720 number include people ACCUSED or Confessed
or CONVICTED molesters? One poster said the list was of accused molesters
but according the JR Brown this is not so. . . . . . From Silent Lambs web
site I obtain the following quotes from letters to Bodies of Elders and
Statements made by JR Brown, Public Affairs Office and Mario Mareno,
Legal Affaires Department. (bold and caps added for emphasis) Those who
have confessed to child molestation, or who have been found guilty of
child molestation by the congregation on the basis of two or more CREDIBLE
witnesses, should appear on the Child Protection List. . . . . . . . There are,
however, many other situations that are connected with the abuse of a
child. For example, there may be just one eyewitness, and the brother
denies the allegation. . . . . . . (Many quotes, more info) http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=24050&site=3
October 11, 2002
Comment: I'd like to tell you a little story about a father and a son.
You see they were entering a village both riding on this donkey. And
the people seen them and said look at those 2 guys riding that donkey
wouldn't that be a huge strain on the animal? So the son got off the
donkey and let his father ride Then the people said look at that father
making his son walk like that so the father got of the donkey at let
his son ride. Then the people said look at that son making his father
walk like that. So they now both decide to walk and the people say look
at those silly guys why don't they ride the donkey they've got. The moral
of the story is no matter what you do in life you can never please everybody.
Regards Josh.
October 11, 2002
Comment: On the subject of reporting a wrong doing in relation to witnesses.
When they say 2 or more witness to an incident it doen't mean there has
to be 2 together at the same time. It just means at least 2 people must
have seen or reported a similar incident. For Example i see a brother
drinking an excessive amount of alcohol or in other words he's drunk.
Then i reported it to the elders. so its only me thats seen it so far
ok. So the elders would make a note of that . Now another Brother see's
the same brother on another occassion an he's seen that this brother
is drinking too and is abit intoxicated, so he also reports this to the
elders. which they note as well so now what we have is 2 credable witnesses
to an incident and the elders could approach the guilty person and take
action on the basis of 2 reports. However they could still approach the
person on the basis of one report too however if he or she denied it
then they would have no ground to take any further action. Regards Josh
October 11, 2002
Comment: to noname; you are trying to say that the jw's follow the bible. . and
i don't know my bible. . . i left a short list a while back on what the
inspired word of god says about false prophets. . . go find it. then comment. .
and show me were the wt prints that they shouldn't be judged by the inspired
word of god the bible. . . you are a follower of men not god. gods light
never changes. . ie wt teachings . . so what happened now when a child is
abused he needs one or no witnesses. . are you up on the latest from the
wt. . is that new light from jehovah or from pressure in the media and
courts??? maybe slc will post that one from jr brown. . here's one for
all . . . would jesus approve of the wt sending laywers to court to protect
jw's that are child molesters??? well that what the wt has done in many
cases do your homework. . . now tell me that is bible based. . . god is directing
the wt to do these demonic things. . . john
October 11, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony could you please give me the RCW that you are refering
to? Your fear of being sued reminds me of someone saying "Yeah I
would have dialed 911 but I could not remember the number. " And
Josh, What is your point? What does that have to do with sending a little
girl back into the arms of the man that is raping her? Why then are the
cases that are going on all over the world with people who have never
met each other telling the same horrible truth again and again? Is it
a big conspiracy? Yes, and it goes all the way back to N. Y. -Jayson
October 11, 2002
Comment: thats right you can never please everybody. . . and in over 120
years the wt has never pleased god jesus ,the holy sprit. the angels
. but they have pleased themselves plenty, with the name of god to mislead
and lie to followers for their own greed. . . . john
October 11, 2002
Comment: josh you are spritualy intoxicated. . and you know what the
bible says about that. . we have many witnesses here to your twisting of
the bible. . so it has been brought the the attention to the only elder
that counts JESUS. SO NOW YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO HIM. AS NO MAN IS
MY SEPERIOR. . READ YOUR GOSPEL. . . . JOHN
October 11, 2002
Comment: josh you are spritualy intoxicated. . and you know what the
bible says about that. . we have many witnesses here to your twisting of
the bible. . so it has been brought the the attention to the only elder
that counts JESUS. SO NOW YOU WILL HAVE TO ANSWER TO HIM. AS NO MAN IS
MY SEPERIOR. . READ YOUR GOSPEL. . . . JOHN
October 11, 2002
Comment: i thought the whole purpose of this site was to help victums
of child abuse. What we need to focus on here is on the perpetrator's
of these crimes . Note i did say crimes. If what these people have done
to children is true and can be proven in a court of law that they are
guilty then by all means let them be tried and se ntenced to the appropriate
time in prison. Jehovah's organization does not harbour criminals as
some seem to make out, nore does it condone any wrong doing if it did
then why are there around 50 000 disfellowshipped every year. Another
thing that needs to be re - emphasised is that if these people do these
things and then sincerly repent after having served there time then we
are are obligated to forgive . True i agree that these crimes are despicable
however Jesus' did say to forgive and he did not put conditions upon
that principle. However such a person if reinstated into a congregation
would be watched very carefully. I see alot of people here after viewing
some things about incedents have said "we as Jehovah's witness's
are not to be trusted" So tell me that if there are say corrupt
police that we can longer trust all police. If Hitler and his henchmen
were resposible for exterminating millions of Jew's does it mean that
we must hate all Germans? The answer to that would obviously be no so
the same principle apply's to all things in life yeah hate or dispize
the person but don't blame the entire race or organisation. Regards Josh
October 11, 2002
Comment: Josh - There are conditions to forgiving. Read your magazines.
I don't trust cops. I don't trust Germans, either. I know Germans who
don't trust Germans. Jehovah God tells us to not put our trust in earthling
man. He tells us to trust him. The emphasis has been on having 2 eye
witnesses of the SAME allegation of child molestation. With child molestation,
there will not be EVEN ONE witness. If there are, then they are a party
to the child molestation because no one can just watch and do nothing
about the molestation. If that's what they're doing, then they're a party
to the child molestation. Do you think they'd tell on themselves? If
your faith is being undermined by coming here then you shouldn't associate
here. You're trying to dispute something that is very well documented.
Things need to be changed at headquarters and it's as simple as that!
October 11, 2002
Comment: Sorry for not signing my name. I put it in the "Name" box
before I make my comments and keep forgetting to sign my name at the
end of the comments because I guess I'm conditioned to thinking it's
going to appear in the post but it doesn't. I'll try to remember.
October 11, 2002
Comment: John, I said: Comment: John, John, John, you were doing so
WELL, too. Anyway, one doesn't have to be a JW to know what the BIBLE
says. You aren't against JWs, you're against the BIBLE. Either THAT or
you don't know what the Bible says. You were doing sooo well, too. I
did NOT say that I'm a JW nor did I say that only JWs know the Bible.
Get your hot head in some cold water and read what is actually there
before you go flying off your handle.
October 11, 2002
Comment: Excuse my ignorance Jason, but what's RCW stand for? All keep
in mind that the parents, usually the first to know of child abuse are
the ones who are instructed to go to the police/welfare agencies in the
Oct 8 1993 Awake! Any elders who tried to stop them outright are very
much in the wrong as in the US and many countries child abuse is a reportable
offense. Sadly many dont go to the police just as many adult rape victims
dont go to the police -they know they will get drawn and quartered in
Court - they know that the experienc of a trial is like being raped all
over again. What concerns me with this whole silent lambs scene is that
it making the victims relive their trauma over and over again. There's
no closure for them until they can put it behind them. Marching on Bethel,
going to the media only multiplies the stress and trauma. Why let the
abusers destroy you? Try to put it behind you and get on with your lives.
By all means take legal action against any individual elders who have
engaged in cover ups. But not the organisation who have given us the
advice found in that Awake! and subsequent letters to congregation elders.
bioharmony (Cert. IV Psychology)
October 11, 2002
Comment: show me were i flew off the handle????i think not. . . that is
fallicies in arguementation 5-22-90 pg. 13-4 you can't lie to me . . . . i
know enough about the bible to know the wt is a false christ. . . the holy
sprit showed me. . . . holy sprit can show the truth to all . . . without a
org or church . . . read a real bible. . . john
October 11, 2002
Comment: p. s. noname i'm doing fine jesus is my only teacher. . . not some
man made group. . that says they speak for jesus. . john. .
October 11, 2002
Comment: Meagan's law must contradict defamation laws then. Even the
media reports on BBC Panorama and nine. msn Sunday have only named CONVICTED
pedophiles. Publicly naming someone for any crime who has not been convicted
is defamation. In some States it is defamation only if the claims are
true, in other states a person's reputation only has to be smeared -
true or false, and it's defamation. A case involving a sports coach here
was kicked out of Court and now the coach is considering suing for defamation
and consideration is being given to ammend the Law so that ANY criminal
can only be publicly identified after, not before he/she has been convicted.
October 11, 2002
Comment: hey josh ; what are you trying to do here either you are misinformed
of you are joshing us. . i will let the girls here tear you apart. . you
are a waist of my time. . john
October 11, 2002
Comment: Well good to see people reading the comments. i'll re - empathise
this one more time a witness to an incident can also be the victum now
does that satisfy every one . so in other words young Johny is abused
by someone in the cong and reports it to the elders Then young billy
is abused and reports it to the elders both by the same person so now
we have 2 witnesses and the elders can take affirmitive action. Just
wished people understood good english. Like i said before you can't please
everyone in this world. I guarentee if the witnesses did do everything
100 % right you guys would still find something to complain about. And
as regards to Bill our Host of this site it is good to remember that
he set up this site to help victums he certainly did not put it here
to run down Jehovah's Witnesses whom 99. 3% are ok or Jehovah God who
is 100% ok and i'm sure Bill would confirm that if he reads this. Regards
Josh
October 11, 2002
Comment: First it is Jayson with a "y" but there is no need
to feel that you are ignorarant. I abbreviated. Sorry, Written Code of
Washington, (or whatever state you are in. ) But I want to say that I
agree with much of your last post. Elders who get in the way of the police
about a crime are wrong. I agree with that and you. We can hang the hat
there if you want. I have had experince with Elders who basicly belive
that they can do anything that the damn well please. I know that not
every Elder is like that but really at one time when I tried so hard
to get along with my JW family some of them admitted that I have seen
nothing but the worst that the JW's have to offer. Here I try to refrain
and keep on target. I don't want to get off track I want supporters not
more hate. There is enough of that already. I also agree that anyone
who rapes is wholy responsible for their actions. I don't think that
becoming a JW suddenly makes you a rapist any more that holding a gun
makes you want to rob a bank. They have little, or nothing to do with
one another. But, like a robber wants a gun child rapists want access
to children. And, Jehovah Witnesses fear/detest anything that makes the
Organization look less than perfect. Or, at least (they are) better than
anyone else. And, if you are a survivor of this issue and this causes
you pain then you have my sympathy. But, it seems that others like those
who marched want justice. Even you say that is they right to seek it.
And I like many of them feel and belive that the Organization does in
fact bear much responsiblily for all of this because of thier action.
October 11, 2002
Comment: Jason. the WT Society is 100% wrong in everything. There is
no good tree that grows on rotten roots. The WT is based on the principle
of denying Jesus Christ as the God. It is a part of the Free Masonry.
John is a good man. His thinking correct. His delivery is not important.
You are a JWD and evil for as long as you stay that way. Your friends
here also. It is the whole org. of Jehova that is stinking from Brooklyn
to the ends of the earth and must be sued and sued and sued and sued
by all that they hurt. Not only the young ones, the Silentlambs but ALL.
May God repay them most 10 x more than what they did to others. Sue the
bastards whoever you are for big money. Expose them far and wide in all
available media and from mouth to mouth for protection of others. rmk
October 11, 2002
Comment: Josh-Disfellowshipping, and defaming words like "apostate" belittles
God and the need for religion. It is sick and dirty and very unholy.
It is anything but clean. With the disfellowshipped do you feel good?
Do you feel love? Or, do you feel anger. Pain, guilt, frustration, what
do you feel? Anything? Think of the one woman you love most in this world.
Your mother, your sister, your wife. Or worse, your child. Imagine a
full-grown man getting her to follow him into a corner of a house or
even in a Kingdom hall hidden from sight. What would you feel if you
knew that this man was rubbing her genitals and even penetrating her?
What do you feel? Now imagine that not only does no one belive her but
no one care. This man looks her in the eye and says it did not happen.
Then the elders say well, that is the end of it. Do you care? How can
you not? How is this different from the policy on rape? You must scream
or you want it? How about the issues of Elders in the bedroom or the
Governing Body deciding who will live and who will die for the faith
and money of the Watchtower's Society. Forgiving has to do with not hating.
Not holding a grudge. It does not mean to ignore a clear and present
danger to society. Would this pedifile ever be sent out to my house?
Would I be warned? Why or Why not? As a body Jehovah Witnesses you should
not be believed because you lie. You have had reality completely distorted.
I know that so many don't belive me. Other's who do will stay silent.
But it is true. That corrupt officer of the law would be stripped of
his position and sent to jail if he used his authority to take advantage
of a young girl. He would never be a police officer again. Nor any position
of power over people. If a teacher raped your child in school would you
want two witnesses? Would you just L. I. T. J. Did anyone ever hear of the "evils" of
the Catholic's about this issue? Which is the bigger sin, that it happened
or that they are now being forced to take responsibility for it? Anyway
in both cases court would be open to the public there would be a record.
There is the "Freedom of Information Act. " Secular Law is not
hidden behind closed doors. Be careful about speaking of the Jehovah
Witnesses and the Nazi's. That one belongs on JWD. But, not every German
was a Nazi. And, the people elected Hitler. The people supported him.
They surrendered power to a very evil man and governing body during that
part of German history. -Jayson (SLC should I just shut up now? I feel
like I am singing to that bag of jellybeans)
October 11, 2002
Comment: rmk I'm gonna pretend I did not read that. And it's JaYson
with a Y :? I have been thinking about you I hope that you are ok. "To
hate a dumb thing is blasphmy captian. "-Moby Dick
October 11, 2002
Comment: What does (cert IV pshycology) mean?????
October 11, 2002
Comment: no jw's are not OK!!! they are preaching a false gospel . they
will lie all day to protect their god in brooklyn. josh so you are saying
that it's ok that your jehovah is happy with keeping a child molester
in good standing in your gods org. if two or three little girls don't
come foward. while that one girl is getting raped for years. . . i would
love to be behind you at judgement day and here you tell that to jesus. . . lol
i'll be a monkeys uncle if the wt teachings are pleasing to the real
god. . if that s the case i don't want to live in your paridise???john
October 11, 2002
Comment: Josh: after reading the devastation that this causes, is it
really okay with you that more than one child should be molested by the
same guy in order to be right in doing something about it????My personal
experience with the JW's over a period of 18 years is that only 3% are
spiritual and the rest are superficial, shallow, gossips, make poor decesions,
hateful, judgemental and have no idea of what a true Christian is or
what an act befitting repentance looks like. And they scared the heck
out of me! WTS may not be equal to a Nazi but they are equal to a pharasee
by being legalistic, cruel, and caring more about the "letter of
the law" rather than the intent. . . Jesus hated them. I don't like
pharasees or nazis - doesn't matter what religion or what nationality.
Something is wrong with you to think it is okay for two children to be
molested by the same person before something can be done. . . Jesus does
not think that way and neither does God. Bill was DFd without any witnesses-WTS
is hypocritical and does not even follow it's own policy for dfing unless
it benefits them. Bill is not the only person dfd without witnesses. ******************BIOHARMONY
- ONE OF THE BEST WAYS TO RELIEVE STRESS IS TO WALK AND MARCHING IN NY
QUALIFIES AS RELIEVING STRESS - NOT RE-LIVING TRAUMA. THESE FOLKS WERE
FACING THEIR OPPRESSOR IN A VERY PUBLIC WAY, WITH THE SUPPORT THEY NEVER
GOT FROM THE JWS, STANDING UP FEARLESSLY, SPEAKING UP AND OUT. WHAT COULD
BE MORE HEALING THAN THAT????? And those who were not able to do this
will find their "voice" and will heal in a way that is meaningful
to them, in their own time - at their own pace. And the truth is one
never "gets over this" and that is what makes it the most horrendous
of crimes. Silentlambs is about not being silent anymore by writing their
stories, posting when they want and practicing defending themselves.
Here they are believed for the first time. . . here they find they are not
alone for the first time. And here they can relive it as many times as
it takes and no one will judge them that it takes too long. . . . because
it takes as long as it takes. That is the comfort for the silentlambs
that they never got. Love, soapbox
October 11, 2002
Comment: Moby Dick. I made my self clear. I pray for speedy destruction
of the WT Society and all false religion every day period. The JW is
formost in blaspheming because it carries the name of my heavenly Father.
Now prove that this is not true. Amen rmk
October 11, 2002
Comment: BIO: Am I to be grateful for listening to WTS tell me it is
wrong to fly the American Flag while they join the UN as an NGO? Am I
to be grateful to an organization that allows my brothers and sisters
in Malawi to be murdered, raped and torn from their homes because the
org would not allow them to sign a government card. . . while at the very
say time they let the mexicans bribe their government to stay out of
the service to the government ???? WTS is a dangereous organization.
They supported Hilter, and were prejudice against the Jews. *****I fly
my American Flag in protest to these actions that do not befit a Christian
in any sense of the word. I am not grateful to anyone that lies, decieves,
manipulates me or others. . . . "even if. "
October 11, 2002
Comment: I really do understand your anger because I understand your
pain. rmk to hate them is dumb. They cloud your mind. They bastardize
the name placed in the bible by a 13th century monk. Even the Jw's admit
that. So God can take care of itself. Its you that I worry about I know
you hurt. me to, I still love my jw family I always will I can not change
that. But, i now accept that it does not matter. They only have love
for that bif golden calf in brooklin. maybe if the second comming had
come sooner on thier terms they would not be so angery. but they no longer
will contol me not even will i hate them. i will not give the bastards
the satisfaction. (still confused over how i am a jwd) last i need prove
nothing the jws history speaks for itself.
October 11, 2002
Comment: Josh: I am curious as to how long you have been part of the
Society. New enough to to have the enthusiasm, old enough to have all
the indoctrination - deep and hard. I hope everybody read your recent
post quite closely - you may find it interesting to back and take a look
yourself. You may be surprised to see yourself capable of retelling such
policies with such conviction. In your mind, it makes sense that "young
Johny is abused" and yet nothing can be done until "Then young
billy is abused". By your organization's inaction when they had
a chance to help "youg Johny", they personally doomed "billy" to
the same fate. Could have helped, but didn't! Imagine a judgement day
when those clowns are asked why they didn't protect Billy. What kind
of anser will they have? I assure you, Christ's true followers would
have helped Johny, and even moreso, Billy. Can you even see that point?
Only a severe case of overindoctrination would stop you from seeing that
point. You need to know something else too: Your religion's separatist
attitudes are part of the core of the problem. If the WTBTS weren't so
scared of participating in the world, it may have even occured to a board
of elders, when "Johny" came to them, that they could even
see if this perpetrator had molested children elsewhere, maybe even worldly
kids. This is not about a few bad apples. It is about an organizational
structure and culture that perpetuates the problem. - Buster
October 11, 2002
Comment: Donkeys and people pleasing. The story of the Bible is to please
God!!! Dear Josh you try so hard to reason and miss it by a long shot.
If you walk in the steps of Jesus, imatate Jesus you please God. And
then it doesn't matter what people you displease. ****Jesus is the way,
the life and the truth no matter what anyone says. . . not even what the
WTS says. Not what you say or I say but only what Jesus says.
October 11, 2002
Comment: The Order of Special Full-Time Servants --- When I read my
1995 Yearbook for the first time, I spotted something I had never seen
in any literature before. This is the paragraph that made me stop and
wonder: --- SLC did not write that, but am submitting it for the SL Guestbook
readership. For details of this interesting bit o' info, please go to
the Channel C public board here: MESSAGE = http://www. channelc. org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index. cgi?board=Main&message=3824
------- Hi all! Later/SLC
October 11, 2002
Comment: ANOTHER NEWSPAPER CARRIED the "AP" article back on
9-27-02 --- FYI/SLC ----- My Mom mailed me the article she cut out from
The Florida Times-Union (Jacksonville, FL) which was printed on 9-27-02.
It was the same AP article by reporter Bobby Ross, Jr. re: Barbara and
Joe Anderson. The big bold title is: "'Silentlambs' speaks. " Below
that is a big picture of Joe Anderson with the photos of their grandson.
Then there is another bold headline which says: "Group protests
child abuse in Jehovah's Witnesses. " Then the article begins, and
centered in the text is another picture of Barb & Joe standing with
all their research files. --- When I received this article in the mail
on 10-9-02, I researched the current and archived files at the Florida
Times-Union website, but this article is not in their current or past
archives, so it must have only appeared in their newsprint edition.
October 11, 2002
Comment: I do not hate JW's. I hate false religion I hate the legal
instrument the WT Society for what it stands for. This organization was
set up by individual criminals like Russell Rutherford Franz and others
they and they must be brought to justice. Since they are no brothers the
court is the only place that remains. This is being done now on dayli
basis now and that is good. but not good enough. We must join the Global
SUITE as a Class to strip the Borg of everything they have because all
they have was taken from US! Who said that this is narrow minded? Should
I put it in a poem form for some of you? I could you know ?. . rmk
October 11, 2002
Comment: ***PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*** for Silentlambs -- SUGGESTIONS
----- Hi Gang. One of our regular posters here wrote and asked me for
some suggestions on submitting PSA's to their local Pennysaver and/or
Penny Pincher newspapers. So I wrote out the below. Yes, it's a little
long, so please bear with me. I am merely submitting it here in case
anyone else may benefit from it. Just my thoughts/suggestions, FYI. . .
Love ya/SLC -------------- Call the Advertising Dept. at the Penny Pincher/Pennysaver
and: (1) Ask for someone who specifically deals with the PSA's. (2) Ask
if they have to be submitted in typing or via US Mail and/or in person? & by
when? (3) Ask if they can be submitted via email, and does your local
PP have a website? (4) Ask if your local Penny Pincher has branches in
other cities round about? (5) Ask if you can have it published in ALL
of those cities, too, or do you need to submit a separate PSA to each
branch? ----- (Example, in Florida there is a statewide network of Pennysavers.
So I am going to ask if my PSA can be published in ALL of those, and/or
do I have to submit it to EACH individual Pennysaver in EACH of the Florida
cities, etc. ) ----- Also, PSA's are usually published for support groups
or events, who are having an upcoming function on a certain date. As
an example: "The Parkinson's Support group meets every Wed. at 3
pm at the Local Community Center on Main Street, USA. This week (date),
the speaker will be Dr. John Doe concerning the latest drugs for Parkinson's.
Refreshments will be served. For more information please call Jane Smith
#000-0000. " ----- In other words, they are more likely to print
those PSA's that have a "dated" function coming up, and the
other PSA's get "booted" depending on space. (PSA's are actually
used as "FILLERS" around their "PAID" classified
ads, know what I mean?) ----- And since Silentlambs is an ongoing kind
of thing, via the web mostly, and/or calls to Bill & Sheila, who
direct them further, etc. , and not any specific Weekly or Monthly meeting
being held anywhere (yet!), I'm not sure if we can convince these Penny
Pinchers to publish our PSAs on a regular weekly basis. But we can still
try! If they hate pedophiles and/or do not like JWs, maybe they will
try HARDER to "fit it in" every week! Who knows!!! ----- Anyway,
here's a "rough draft" example of what you might could write,
depending on how much they will allow (a paragraph or two???) You may
have to shorten it! If needed, ask the lady at the Penny Pincher who
is in charge of the PSA's to help you shorten it. ------------------
***PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT*** --------------- Are you a "SILENT
LAMB" or a "BATTERED" LAMB"? YOU ARE NOT ALONE! A
silent/battered lamb is an individual who is a victim of sexual or domestic
abuse by a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower, and who feels
they are alone and/or feel they are not able to talk about it. --- For
direction, assistance, comfort, validation, please visit our website:
and/or call #1-877-WT-ABUSE (#1-877-982-2873). Join our Email List by
writing: Editor@silentlambs. org. If you want/need help, write to: Help@silentlambs. org.
To "pinpoint a pedophile" write to: Pedophile@silentlambs. org,
or fill out the anonymous form at our website. To present material to
establish hard evidence of Watchtower abuse, please call or write to:
Info@silentlambs. org. US Mail, write to: Silentlambs, PO Box 311, Calvert
City, KY 42029. For local contact, please call (your name) at (your phone
number). --- Silentlambs, Inc. is a 501. C. 3. non-profit chartiable corporation.
All donations to support our work are tax-deductible, and are used exclusively
for the benefit of victim assistance and for public education regarding
the misguided sex abuse policy of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
--------- END OF PSA --------------- If you put your own name and phone
# in your PSA, make sure you have Bill & Sheila's numbers handy so
you can direct anyone who calls you to Bill/Sheila if they need/want
it. ----------------------- Bill/Sheila's numbers are: --- Silentlambs,
P. O. Box 311, Calvert City, KY 42029. --- TOLL FREE: #1-877-WT-ABUSE
(#1-877-982-2873). --- Home Phone: #270-527-5350 --- Fax: #270-527-5351
--- Cell: #270-559-1791 --- WEBSITE: --- EMAILS: --- To be added to the
silentlambs Email List: . --- To offer assistance to the cause of SL,
write to . --- If you want/need help, write to . --- Pinpoint a Pedophile:
or you may do so anonymously using the online form at the website. ---
Webmaster: . --- William H. Bowen, Founder: . --- Via US Mail write to:
Silentlambs, P O Box 311, Calvert City, KY 42029. --- HOTLINE: 1-877-WT-ABUSE,
1-877-982-2873. --- For victims of child abuse who need further assistance,
for anyone to call to present material to establish hard evidence of
Watchtower Abuse, to provide information about where to go to get help.
----- Silentlambs, Inc. is a 501. C. 3. non-profit chartiable corporation.
All donations to support our work are tax-deductible, and are used exclusively
for the benefit of victim assistance and for public education regarding
the misguided sex abuse policy of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.
----------------------- Hope this helps!/ SLC (My_JW_Stuff@yahoogroups. com)
October 11, 2002
Comment: JOSH: FOR A FACT 3 CHILDREN WERE MOLESTED BY THEIR FATHER SEPARATELY. . . and
the elders told the mother that was not 3 witnesses. . . this was in California.
The mother divorced the father and he stayed in good standing and began
dating a sister with a child. The mother whose children were molested
lost them to foster care due to her instability which was CAUSED BY THE
LACK OF SUPPORT of the congregation she belonged to and the terrible
circumstances of what happened to her children. This story is a "repeat" of
what happens in congregations all around the world. What first hand experience
do you have in these matters other than reading what the WTS would like
you to believe???? Why don't y ou believe the stories told in Abused
Lambs??? Why is the WTS more valid to you, then the stories told here???
I know why but do you?
October 11, 2002
Comment: My pastor, who is a loving shepherd to our local assembly,
developed a list of professional standards for all who are employed by
our church. Among them are the fact that sexual harrassment will not be
tolerated, and that ANY report of child abuse will immediately be reported
to the GOVERNMENTAL authorities, no if, ands, or buts. The employee will
be suspended until the outcome of the criminal proceedings. If they are
a lay member, they are reported as well, and if the individual is found
guilty by a court, the confrefation votes on whether to expel the member
or not. ALL employees who deal with youth in events other than Sunday
School are given background checks by the denomination. No adult is EVER
allowed to be in a room or area of the church alone with any child that
is not theirs. EVER. The pastor rarely counsels women without his wife
( one of the sweetest women we know) being present. When he counsels
them alone, his door is left open and his secretary is at her desk right
outside the door. This protects him as well. I have yet to meet a Christian
that though these policies were too severe. In fact, most of the parents
feel that their children are in a safe environment, with no real worries
about child molestation from other members. To me this shows love for
us and our children. I think the WT policy is very short-sighted. ANY
member of a JW congrgation who hears that a child has suffered abuse
dhould immediately call the child protective services or the police.
To NOT do so is unethical. I believe ny church's standards are definately
much higher that the WT. Lawrence
October 11, 2002
Comment: well well what have we here now a josh bashing session . You
try and speak some common sense and nobody seems to understand. I certainly
am not stating WTS pololicy no one has to me what to say . Common sense
tells you that. If what that person said is true i'm sorry i don't know
your name then that body of elders has a very very big problem yes i'll
repeat it that body of elders has a very very big problem. ok If it is
true of course. And the Governing body would have to look into that and
sort the matter out very quickly. When i said that you need 2 or more
witnesses that was to actually take appropriate action however even if
only one witness came forward the elders could still approach such a
person and action could be taken also although in this case the guilty
party would have to confess to them. However in the mean time if the
parent wished to report this matter to the police they are quite entitled
to do so. The reason the elders would take no action in case of only
one witness is because what if it proved to be false . You only have
to look at a criminal case in court what happens there? Isn't evidence
brought forward to substanciate the accusation. Image if one day you were
falsely accused by someone of a crime you never committed and you were
arrested for it how would you feel? What is the law in the usa is it
Guilty untill proven innocent sounds like it to me. Prov15:3 The eyes
of Jehovah are in every place , keeping watch upon the bad ones and the
good ones. Because God does not allow imperfction to be a constant excuse
for bad conduct. (Jude4) Jehovah wants humans to clean up , to get there
lives in good moral order. (Rom12:9) Abhor whatis wicked . What ever a
man is sowing this is what he will reap Sin offends God Our creator is
loving and merciful though. (2pet3:9) He does not desire any to be destroyed
but desires all to attain to repentence. Notice he desires all to attain
to repentance. Jesus taught the golden rule to forgive and w e must forgive
. He also taught us to pay caesars things to caesar so yes if a crime
is commited then the guily person should be dealt with according to there
crime. The question i would like to pose to everyone is this ok the crimal
does his time so what happens to him/her when they leave jail? Are they
to be condemned forever? Even if they have changed in there ways. Even
if they have learnt a lesson. what do you all think. Regards Josh.
October 12, 2002
Comment: At the end of Williams letter to JR Brown he mentioned 3 points
which we should do 1. Call the police 1st well that of course is up to
the parents or the victum or the elders if they choose to do so. 2nd
No brother or sister who is molesting a child have priveliges well bill
knows perfectly well that no child molestor is given privleges in the
congregation . and cannot serve as an elder or ministial servant. No
brother or sister that molests a child should go out preaching well i
agree too how could they be out preaching if there disfellowshipped?
The way some people portray witnesses you'd think that everyone of us
was a molestor. If the figure that bill says is correct 25000 in USA
Canada, Europe. Ok so we'll double it to include the rest of the world
so thats 50 000 . there are over 6 000 000 dedicated Jehovah's witness's
on the earth. so i'm doing my maths here 50% would be 3 000 000 25% would
be 1. 500 000 12. 5% would be 750 000 6. 25% would be 375 000 3. 125 % would
be 187 500 1. 5625 % would be 93 750 so i've gotten down to 1. 5 % and
still haven't gotten to this figure so what i ask is what about the other
98. 5 % are you all trying to say where all molestors too ? Obviously
even say 1/2 a percent is too much i really wished that we had none of
this happening in the organization but while this system continues no
doubt there will be other incidents too that is why we more than ever
need Jehovah's intervention on this troubled earth.
October 12, 2002
Comment: I've got a favor to ask of you guys: Are you guys (the regulars,
the victims, the survivors, etc. ) happy with what Bill Bowen has done
so far? Even if he looses his cool now and then, like every other human
on the planet? Please go here and read. I do not want to speak for others,
but I couldn't help myself in this instance, 'cuz I am sick to death
of these people criticizing not only Pat, a victim, but also silentlambs
and Bowen. Thanks/SLC. . . http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38318&page=5&site=3#523249
October 12, 2002
Comment: If you were molested by Dan Fitzwater, please go here: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38434&page=1&site=3#523292
October 12, 2002
Comment: If you were molested by CHRIS McKENZIE, please go here: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38435&site=3
October 12, 2002
Comment: What are you trying to accomplish with statistics? While it
may be true that the statistical incidence is extremely low in comparison
with the entire number of JWs, statistics do not represent the whole
picture. The whole picture most likely is that there are many more victims
and predators. Even if it's only another 5% more, what is the point of
insisting on saying this is a small amount compared with the whole? Are
you really trying to vindicate the other 90% or are you, perhaps inadvertently,
minimizing the problem of child molestation? The fact remains that Jehovah
God requires shepherds to go after ONLY THE ONE SHEEP that has strayed.
When we start wanting MORE VICTIMS to prove a person is a criminal, what
has happened to our humanity? Besides that, the point is that the known
predators were known by elders to have more than one victim. They have
refused to treat the victim as a witness and they wanted SOMEONE ELSE(S)
to be a witness to the victim's ALLEDGED allegations that they were molested.
It's true that there are some false allegations. However, INTELLIGENT
INVESTIGATION, not accusations and calling victims liars, will produce,
usually, the desired result - to learn what really happened. Even so,
we need to be sensitive to each individual's boundaries and to not violate
them. When they're violated, then THAT ONE PERSON has been hurt, even
if there wasn't actual molestation. That person's feelings in a matter
were violated. If there was truly a misunderstanding, there STILL WAS
DAMAGE to the complainer. At least an apology is in order and DEFINITELY
RESPECT FOR THE VICTIM'S FEELINGS, BOUNDARIES AND WISHES. You don't keep
poiing at an animal that has already make it quite clear that you've
overstepped your meeting with it because you know it'll attack you and,
perhaps, it'll prove fatal to you. Why would you keep "poking" at
a human, adult or child? That's not a test of their Christian personality
- that's asking to get attacked - it's going against nature, even human
nature. The Bible, through JWs, has taught me to be SENSITIVE to human
needs. I've learned that we need to have Jehovah God's laws and principles
in our hearts, to not violate them but to know to exercise them with
compassion and genuine brotherly love. I've learned that to know Christ,
we need to have love, patience, compassion without prejudice as to whom
we extend it to. I have to agree that, in spite of the great number of
people in our association, the vast majority do not extend themselves
beyond the "milk" of Bible teachings. We need to start helping
those that are into the "meat" of the Bible and let those that
like milk too much fall where they may, even if they're elders, MSs,
whatever. There are plenty of women around that demonstrate the maturity
and responsibility necessary to handle congregation functions and matters.
If there aren't enough mature men, then the women should be used as they
once were in the middle of the 1900s. Too many "young" men
have been appointed in positions of authority in the congregation and
organization and they do not have the longevity required to refine one's
faith and understanding. They've been appointed only because they're
males. They've done a lot of damage to their flock because of their immaturity.
It's time to reevaluate this policy, too. I think it'd be better to appoint
sisters who have proper understanding of the scriptures, a solid record
of PLEASANT faithfulness to those principles and laws because they've
come to terms with themselves and Jehovah God's requirements, and demonstrate
genuine love and caring toward all in the flock. A lot of the males appointed
aren't even known by everyone in the congregations today and do NOT have
good reports from everyone, primarily for that reason. How can you be
a shepherd over the entire flock if the flock doesn't even know them?
Our primary function IS the worldwide preaching work and I do not recommend
letting that slide. However, we need to now realize that we have tremendous
numbers of people among us and we should be like King David who took
into consideration the PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL and MENTAL needs of his soldiers,
too. He didn't just drive them until they dropped and then just got fresh
people to use until they dropped. We need to learn to take care of our
people, now, too. It's not Christian love to just use people for one's
own advantage and then leave them in the lurch when they need help. There's
a lot, I think, that needs to be revamped -- and it's already in our
literature. We can't just continue to supply good knowledge and not do
it among ourselves for us. When you don't feed and nurture your "slaves",
you get rebellion or dead slaves. We need our hearts to be full of love
and devotion to one another first. THAT shows Jehovah God that we have
love for him. We can't love him separate from our brothers. HE REQUIRES
we love our brothers first. Part of that love is to remember them with
good deeds and Christian love. We can't enter into Jehovah God's love
if all we're concerned about is the preaching work and not concerned
about the people that are doing it. It's that DEMONSTRATED WARMTH AND
LOVE AMONG US that stays in our minds and hearts - not the HOURS we've
spent in the field ministry. We have to recognize that Jehovah God NEVER
expected us to denounce our humanity to serve him. I'd be VERY PROUD
of our organization if they SHOUTED FROM THE ROOFTOPS that they wouldn't
allow ANYONE that disturbed the flock's safety and peace and got rid
of them rather than even just give the APPEARANCE of being worse than
the world in such matters such as child molestation. Also, yes, Meagan's
law allows for the child molesters who have been CONVICTED to be made
public but how can one get convicted if people are being threatened and
restrained from reporting them? I believe that Jehovah has caused all
this ruckus because he starts cleaning in his own house - from the top
down. Yes, there IS a sifting work being done now but it's not with the
victims. It's within Jehovah's own house. This didn't EVER have to be
this way if those taking the lead did the right things in the first place.
There's really no discussion in these matters. ANYONE that cares about
the cleanliness of Jehovah's people will NOT support badness - no matter
from whom or where within the organization it's coming from. Yes, elders
are imperfect people, too, and they make mistakes. HOWEVER, THEIR mistakes
affect the flock. It's better they not be an elder and make their mistakes
and learn where they can't harm the flock than for them to continue as
elders or MSs. Not enough brothers? There ARE enough SISTERS that can
do this work until better brothers become available. It's been done before
and throughout the Bible, Jehovah and even Jesus used the women to do
what is right when the men wouldn't, couldn't, didn't or didn't know
how. I think we're in such times now, especially with the rapidly expanding
organization. - Janice
October 12, 2002
Comment: Lawrence's church has the right way of doing things. . . on the
other hand JOSH. . . what pedophile do you know has admitted to the elders
his guilt and WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE ACTIONS BEFITTING REPENTANCE
OF A PEDOPHILE???? A rependant pedophile would not expect the congregation
to rally around him with their "FORGIVENESS" but would take
the back seat to the emotional and spiritual well-being of the little
child he has destroyed. We are not talking about a drunk but a man who
preys on a child that cannot defend itself, protect itself, and cannot
mentally process this action upon it's little body. *****Heartfelt sorrow
would be equal to the damage done. God does have conditions to forgiveness. . . we
are to repay the damage in at least double the value of what we destroyed.
You are defending the WTS, not God's laws or standards.
October 12, 2002
Comment: I would rather go to Lawrence's church than try and cleanup
the WTS. . . alot easier.
October 12, 2002
Comment: spending time in jail must be hell for a pedophile. . . no children
to get at and when he gets out do you really think he has learned his
lesson or is he "just can't wait to find a child" . . . . why do
you think SEX OFFENDERS have to be registered?????BECAUSE THE SEX OFFENDERS
REPEAT THEIR OFFENSES. ******They paid their debt, but the cops know
that doesn't mean they are sorry and won't do it again. Gee, Josh you
don't get it. Sex Offenders are most despicable people of society and
ONLY THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY WANTS TO TREAT THESE PEOPLE BETTER THAN YOU
TREAT SOMEONE WHO SMOKES A DAMN CIGERETTE OR WAS MOLESTED. YUCK.
October 12, 2002
Comment: Janice if you would not have signed your name Janice I'd thought
you were an elder from WT. You know all the nice things to say. Your
bottom line is: The WT Society is good. I say to you this: You do not
know the WT Society. Or, you pretend not to know. The WT is Demon possesed
Commerce oriented Society that pretends to be a christian religion. The
demage they do to people is beyond believe. The demmage to God unforgivable.
Please do a little of thinking. rmk
October 12, 2002
Comment: I am referring to the victim, even if it's ONE, as the lost
sheep that needs to be found, not the pedophile. Communication is very
important, however, I find some here that are so easily inflamed by their
anger and hatred that they don't really read what is there. - Janice
October 12, 2002
Comment: I understand that it is NOT fun for pedophiles in jail. The
other prisoners can't stand them and find many ways to make their lives
miserable. They get back, I'm told, what they deserve when they get to
jail. I honestly hope that true. - Janice
October 12, 2002
Comment: Maybe I am being blinded but Janice I agree with much of what
you have said. Are you a JW in good standing? If so what you said, if
that is in your heart, that you a woman could lead, then you are brave.
I'm glad that you are here. Josh it is not bashing. Welcome to Silentlambs-Jayson
October 12, 2002
Comment: ********the mole*** Christianity teaches us that , small and
inconsequential as we are, we can each congribute good to others that
is out of proportion to our own smallness. It is faith that make this
possible. We do not need the bulk of a big organization to back us up,
nor its headship, its control or prodding to accomplish this. Heart appreciation
for god's undeserved kindness in making life a free gift is not dependent
on works but on faith should be what motivates us. I feel certain that
when life comes to its close the only thing that will, in retrospect,
bring any true sense of satisfaction is the extent to which life was
used to contribute to the welfare of others primarly spiritually and
emotionally. I have no doubt but that effort will be made to disparage
the significance of the information from the society. Time alone will
tell if my religion will fade away like the old puritans and be remembered
only for the abuses left behind. . . ***the mole**
October 12, 2002
Comment: Janice, what you said about pedophiles and their victim Silentlambs
is corect. It is refreshing to have a JW member here with an open mind
and critical of the policies and practices of the WT's GB. I encouage
you howewer to look into the background of the Society. I recomend Raymond
Franz : Crises of Concience and 2. In search of Christian Freedom. 3. Arnold
Schnell: 30 years of the WT Slave. When you read this let us know if
what you read is a lie or the truth. OK? I say it again : I do not hate
J. Wittness. My 4 children are still there as members my brother and
my sister also and numerous relatives across Europe also. But please
do not ask me to pray for the WT Society and it's GB. I prey for you. rmk
n search
October 12, 2002
Comment: I don't mean to be disrespectful but how are you going to get
the WTS to let women teach, guide or be elders? Why would they (WTS)cooperate
with this idea? How many generations would it take to do this???? **************THE
ANGER is useful to the silentlambs who need to express it and this is
the appropriate place for them to do it. This is their site to do with
what they want: we comfort them, not blame them. Who can blame them for
being angry?????? The anger will go once it is spent. I do wish that
this were a safe place and anyone who wants to support the WTS would
go somewhere else. . . obviously you don't know what enrages decent people
and I am sick of the comments that express someone's anger is wrong,
inappropriate, not healing etc. . . . taking too long. This is the safe and
appropriate place to express anger. . . and you need to look at yourself
and why you are pissing off a lamb. No one is on your time schedule with
their anger; and if you piss someone off there is a reason. It is about
you not them. I give permission to all silentlambs to be pissed off and
express it. Pissed off JW's don't belong here - silentlambs do. And that
is enough to piss off any silentlamb. LOVE, soapbox
October 12, 2002
Comment: Some people feel superior when they make someone angry and
they do it by blaming the person for being angry . . so it becomes an
anger problem not a problem with the one who provokes the anger. If you
persist on disrespecting the boundaries of others, they get pissed off.
Silentlambs is for silentlambs. . not jws, or supporters of the jw/wts.
If someone gets angry at you it is because you don't respect the boundary
here. You were not invited, you insist on stayingg, being self-righteous,
you intrude, impose and then accuse us of being angry. I know I don't
care if you support silentlambs or not - but I do care if you come here.
Just leave. . . before there is an argument . . . it is in the bible. Take
your leave.
October 12, 2002
Comment: Janice - why don't you write the society about your idea?
October 12, 2002
Comment: josh you posted to slc. . that jqw's that go to the police don't
get df'ed. . well read some of the posts here . . sounds like you will be
eating a lot of CROW. . HOPE YOUR HUNGRY!!!JOHN
October 12, 2002
Comment: JANICE ; I READ YOUR POST and i argee with rmk . . half way
through it i had to puke!! you did nothing more than glorify your god
the wt in bklyn. . . john
October 12, 2002
Comment: Ok this is as good a place as any to call soapbox's points
into action. rmk I am at a complete loss as to what I did that makes
you think that I am for the wt. I am at a loss as to why you think that
I am evil or my friends are. (I have friends??) If I offended you then
really I am sorry. But I don't know what I did. Tell me. I do not support
the death of jw's like they teach that I do, and neither do you. We both
have family trapped inside the delusioned teaching of the wt. I know
that wt teachings are evil because of what they produce. They claim to
produce good "workers" of society. But it is the society that
they claim is so evil that produces the good "worker" the wt
society provides very little if any of that good. I don't know how your
class action lawsuit will work tell me about it. Maybe we should take
it to JWD? (is it there?) I'm all for forcing them (wt) to change or
die as a religion. I would love to see the wt loose its tax exempt status.
But these are hard things to do in reality. How do you think that we
should go about it? I think also all those who are the victims of the
mind control tactics that they (wt) use are people who should file a
lawsuit. I don't know how to prove it but in court but I think it is
ignoble. (the wt tactics. ) Another problem is that our families do choose
to do what they do I. e. "Freedom of Association. " Which I say
fine because I don't want my kids around the b. s. So for me that is also "Freedom
from Association. " As they use it also. But they also coerise people
into shunning and lying to loved ones and that needs so desperatly to
be exposed. I would love to see people tape the df'ed hearings and put
them on the web. The truth of thier actions and not what they print is
the key here. If only some more lambs like bill at the headcourters getting
advice to "walk away!" on tape then the lawsuits can go forward.
I agree with you. And dispite your loss of family rmk I want you to be
happy. I hope you are. I just understand "ahabism" all to well,
and the JW's will feed this if they can. Justified anger turned to rage.
It shuts down people who are unwaware of the JW's from listing to your
story. The JW stories I have, they are so much less than what is posted
here is still unbelivable because of the level of the jw malice. Even
by my own nonjw family. Until now. With the help of Silentlambs here
and "Thank you all" I can talk without rage and hurt. God rmk,
they have make me cry as a grown man and they just loved that. The quote
was "Sheesh you are such a pathetic baby. You make me sick. You
are not a man, just a baby need some milk? sheesh. " After that payback
in the form of kickin some butt was sounding quite appealing. Of course
they would just love that and call themselves the victim and a marter.
But bill and others reminded me that these guys are just dumb dipsticks.
Big boys don't cry but big men do. Jesus did. For what it is worth I
like you rmk. And I never for a second thought that you hate jw's. For
me, the wt, like its members, I hate their actions. The actions that
the silentlambs have spoken about on this site is about evil action and
evil intent it is not about God. Nor is it about religion. It is about
injustice and malice. And your words are not wrong rmk. At least I think
not. -Jayson PS John neither are yours.
October 12, 2002
Comment: Dear Janice. I was like you. Honest and exemplary JW. There are
many there like that. Maybe a vast majority. I pray about them very often.
You are also very lucky because I found you to be very intelligent receptive
and humble. We made a big mistake Janice in joining the WT. The WT is
set up as a branch of a great conspiracy for the NEW ORDER under ILLUMINATTI
of which Freemasonry is a part and JW one of it's branches ( Mormons
another one) founded by Russell. This is all secret and kept only for
very few in the top to know and opretate. This New Order is a system
that is man'idea inspired by Satan himself. It is quite transparent when
a proper key of understanding is used and very widespread. I am not a
leader by nature and do not have answers to your many questions but others
do on different web sites on the internet. So please be patient Soon
you will learn many useful things. Please!! do not rush into anything.
Do not quit JW rushly because you might regret it later. Do not leave
behind you those that you could help to get out. Unless you find out
for yourself that the only Salvation comes through Jesus Christ you can't
be saved. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I JUST SAID? (There is no other God
that can save you. )Please think about that. My dear sister I have deep
respect for you and your loved ones and I am glad you do not think evil
of me. I never thought you are. My hope and prayer is that you come to
Christ with full understanding of it's importance. rmk God's blessings
to you. rmk
October 12, 2002
Comment: A wound kept open will never heal. Marching on Brooklyn Bethel,
going to the media is keeping the wound open. The best way to overcome
that stress and anger you feel is to use your experience in a positive
way - like becoming a welfare worker and helping abused children. Cert
IV Psychology is the level I was required to attain in psychology to
become a health worker here in Australia. bioharmony
October 12, 2002
Comment: Ive read the rubbish about the WT and the UN - they have to
members of the NGO to obtain press information from the UN -such as stats
health issues including child abuse. But they do not support the UN's
political endeavors. Hope that helps. bio.
October 12, 2002
Comment: It's simply amazing as to what each individual person thinks
they've read within the same context of words. - Janice
October 12, 2002
Comment: BIO:: THE MARCHERS AS WELL AS ONES WHO HAVE GONE TO THE MEDIA
ARE HELPING PEOPLE TO BE AWARE, BE CAREFUL, TO SAY IT IS OKAY TO SPEAK
ABOUT IT EVEN IF YOU GET DF'D FOR SPEAKING OUT ABOUT IT. THIS IS A PUBLIC
ANNOUNCEMENT TO THE WTS THAT THEY CANNOT CONTROL OR MANIPULATE PEOPLE
INTO SILENCE. VERY IMPOWERING, VERY HEALING - THIS IS ALL BEING DONE
WITH SUPPORT. THIS IS YEARS OF SILENCE COMING OUT -THE FIRST STEP TO
HEALING AND HONORING THE PAIN. THE PAIN HAS TO BE HONORED FIRST. *************The
AWAKE magazine promoted the UN - I read it and thought why is WTS promoting
the UN??? That was a year or two or three before I ever found out about
the NGO status. . . search your old awakes, read them. **********I have
found personally that therapists have no understanding about PTS which
most people suffer if they have been sexual abused & traumatized.
I also have found that therapy does not trust that the individual knows
what works for a meaningful healing and usually hinders the healing process.
People in pain have a fasinating way of healing - in their own way, in
their own time. Who can dictate what is healing ?- each person will find
their way. Anyone who can live thru this horrible violation is strong
and strong enough to decide for themselves what will heal them. I trust
every silentlamb will process this pain and anger into what is meaningful
and useful to them. No one here is being re-traumatized except by the
JW's who show up here with no respect and try to minimize what happened.
Have you seen the movie A Beautiful Mind??? Well, the silentlambs have
a beautiful mind - God gave them a beautiful mind. ***
October 12, 2002
Comment: Bio: Go to patiencepress. com - she is the most knowledgeable
person I have encountered. Every social worker, therapist should read
her information if they want to assist and direct a person who has been
traumatized.
October 12, 2002
Comment: Josh: I am please that you seem to have kept a cool head under
some pretty aggressive opposition. Nice job. You claim to have your own
beliefs and are not repeating WTS policy. But then you go into a scenario
when one person accuses and the other denies and then decide the matter
must be stopped there. Maybe someday you'll see just how indoctrinated
that statement is. Perhaps you will be able to see the false assumption
you made to get to the 'cannot do anything' conclusion: There are other
people, yes even outside the congregation, that may have information
and accustations and may even be at risk by exposure to the accused.
Those people outside the congregation include professionals that can
cooroborate or perhaps contradict the accusation. I agree that we need
to be aware of possible false accusations, but these undereducated laymen
are not the ones to handle it. The elders are over their heads with this
issue and yet you feel comfortable giving them such discretion that they
(1) hear from Johny, (2) the accused denies it, and (3) they can still
decide to drop the matter. The elders should be trying to help. But did
you notice how short a shrift you gave that facet with your reference
to the parent's privilege to report the matter to police. Where is the
elders' "lets get you some help" or even "I don't care
what the WTS rules are, I can tell you're scared and I will protect you"?
Instead you have society rules and the most you can conjure up is to
step aside while they take actuual action to get actual help from people
that can actually help them. I just hope some 12-year-old needing help
has somewhere else to go. It doesn't sound like you plan to be there.
I can tell by your posts that you can think for yourself. But you aren't
doing it yet, chief.
October 12, 2002
Comment: Prior to Johsh - from Buster
October 12, 2002
Comment: How do you know that I am a woman? - Janice
October 12, 2002
Comment: I never criticized the anger. I know better than anyone about
anger, especially from a lack of justice. First the deep, intense hurt.
Then the anger and then the hatred. It's all a normal process that one
must go through before one can sort through it all and find themselves,
who they are, what they stand for and what they believe in - without
prejudice or hatred. It'll come in time. Each one has their own time.
All I said is that that anger and hatred gets in the way of understanding
what is being written. Written communication leaves a lot to be desired
because you can't see and hear the person and don't know how they're
saying it. Some here wouldn't talk, even in person, without anger and
hatred; not for a long time. Those who did the hurting will pay for it,
believe me, they'll pay for it. - Janice
October 12, 2002
Comment: Date: 01 Oct 2002 Time: 21:28:39 Comments To the slanderous
idiot, any "christian" religion that is not catholicism, is
by definition protestant, THE JW'S ARE PROTESTANTS. ===========================================================
UH, SORRY JOE SHOME BUT YOU ARE WRONG. GET A LIFE AND A DICTIONARY! Protestant
noun, adjective [C] (a member) of the parts of the Christian Church which
separated from the Roman Catholic Church during the 16th century The
JW's are far from Protestants in definition and in actions. Thank God.
October 12, 2002
Comment: Having been a victim of sexual abuse myself as a child I am
certainly not here to minimise anyone's trauma or suffering. But I know
first hand how mulling over it or lashing out at all and sundry does
nothing else but make it all worse. Putting it behind you and channeling
your frustration and anger into something positive like becoming a welfare
worker is the best and only way to go. I want to see all the victims
stop hurting. So putting it behind you is the only way. bioharmony PS.
Please stop SHOUTING. Whether you realise it or not using CAPS in cyberspace
is shouting. I have done you no wrong so I do not deserve your anger.
October 12, 2002
Comment: According to the Justice Bureau Stats, 60,000 convicted pedophiles
are free in the community, subject only to restraining orders to keep
them away from schools etc. But they do not walk around with a sign saying "I
am a pedophile" so they are still free to abuse children who may
not know of their past. Nor can the media publish their names and faces.
So to you who claim that 23,000 pedophiles are knocking on your doors
- no chance. They would not even be allowed to go door to door! (Unless
they got a job with Rawleighs!)
October 12, 2002
Comment: Bio-The only thing that I agree with you on is that the elders
of the jehovah witness kingdom halls are very wrong to interfere with
crimes. They should mind their own god damn business! I do not agree
with anything else you say!-Jayson
October 13, 2002
Comment: Bio: your way is your way but not the only way. Silentlambs
are helping each other, and bringing to the attention of as many people
as they can anyway they can. That is part of the Help. This website directs
people to professional help. All of us will email anyone who is in crisis.
I have given good support and received good support. We cannot all become
welfare workers - some of us have other careers, interests, families,
husbands and lives to tend to BUT all are ready to help any silentlamb
that comes here, write to the newspapers and some went to the march.
If you had left this behind you, you would not be here.
October 13, 2002
Comment: Dear Janice and Jayson thanks for your support . Its nice to
know that some people out there have common sense. All my posts are there
in black and white for everyone to see i have nothing to hide. However
its amasing how many times you have to repeat yourself before anyone
can understand. i'll repeat this one more time and hopefully a few more
will understand. Firstly i'm not in here to fight anyone call anyone
names abuse anyone . I respect everyones veiw point yes i respect your
veiw point but i don't necceisarily agree with it however we live in
a democracy so we have freedom of speach. I understand very well why
some people may be angry and i also understand why people would defend
Jehovah's organization. Having said that i'll make this statement. (a)
i'm not in here to defend nor critize the WTS (b)I'm not in here to defend
nor critise the elders. (c)I'm in here simply to state the truth. (d)i
personally feel that all child molesters should be locked away. (e)Having
become a christian i also beleive that wrong doers if truely repentent
must be forgiven. (f)i beleive that elders should report any serious
crimes to police. whether it is state law of not. (g)Our congregations
are open to the public for anyone to come and check for themselves. (h)If
elders have stated to any victum not to go to the police then they are
accountable for there actions. {Lev5:1} Regards Josh
October 13, 2002
Comment: oh yeah janice the answer to how do we know your a woman is
because i thought janice was a girls name. regards Josh
October 13, 2002
Comment: One of the biggest problems that I see when it comes to child
abuse within the WT organization is that everyone in the organization
is way too trusting of those who call themselves "Brothers".
I have commented here on a number of occasions about things that I found
very disturbing when I was a faithful Witness, most of these things centered
around common sense. If something doesn't sound right, look right or
smell right don't put you or your children at risk! Don't let others
or the "Organization" do your thinking for you, Jehovah gave
us a brain to use,use it! If anyone tells you that you should do something
that goes against your better judgment, a red flag shound go up, trust
your God given instinct and don't do it! One thing that I noticed and
most JW's have a problem admitting to, is that many JW's live double
lives. When they go to the Kingdom Hall or are around other JW's they
put on what I call their Kindom Hall face. This can be very deceptive
if you are judging someone based on what you see at the KH. Arm your
children with the knowlege, that if anyone touches them in an inappropriate
way or tells them to do something that they know is wrong to let you
know about it. The Organization may not be willing to keep your children
safe from preditors but you can do something about keeping your children
away from them. When it comes to your children DON'T TRUST ANYONE!
October 13, 2002
Comment: bio; i'm not going to bash you!!!you need to get more info
on the u. n. qwhat are the requirements to be a ngo. get a library card.
and get info from the dpi. . you don't need the be a ngo to get info from
the dpi. . or get a library card. . there is much info about this on the
net. . or try your local library. . i live in new york. and not one jw i
know will go to the public labrary with me or to the united nations.
on 49 st. 1 ave. . . because they know the wt is lying. . or they would
check it out in person. . i offered to take a day off from work to go
there. and pay for the day out lunch and all. . . not one taker. . thats what
i call BLIND FAITH. . . if the wt had nothing to hide my jw friends would
spend a free day in midtown. and make me look stupid. . but they know
i got them busted. . . the wt is in bed with the wild beast. . . john
October 13, 2002
Comment: bio; i'm not going to bash you!!!you need to get more info
on the u. n. qwhat are the requirements to be a ngo. get a library card.
and get info from the dpi. . you don't need the be a ngo to get info from
the dpi. . or get a library card. . there is much info about this on the
net. . or try your local library. . i live in new york. and not one jw i
know will go to the public labrary with me or to the united nations.
on 49 st. 1 ave. . . because they know the wt is lying. . or they would
check it out in person. . i offered to take a day off from work to go
there. and pay for the day out lunch and all. . . not one taker. . thats what
i call BLIND FAITH. . . if the wt had nothing to hide my jw friends would
spend a free day in midtown. and make me look stupid. . but they know
i got them busted. . . the wt is in bed with the wild beast. . . john
October 13, 2002
Comment: RE: "Nor can the media publish their names and faces.
So to you who claim that 23,000 pedophiles are knocking on your doors
- no chance. " What STATE do you live in? I live in Texas . . . when
a pedophile moves into the neighborhood the states mails out a flyer
to the neighbors. This flyer contacts the offenders name and address
and is mailed to a radius of a few miles, (lots of people) Also parents
are notified if a pedophile is a student. Our mothers groups etc take
certain avenues to inform people. The Texas Dept Public of Safety website
has the pedophiles names, addresses and Photos and the caveat for the
info reads: This is public information available to be used by anyone
at anytime for any reason. So what about your state and your neighborhood. . . . check
it out but remember Megan's Law is a Federal requirement. Oh, and yes,
in the Plano congregation a convicted Pedophile is knocking on doors.
October 13, 2002
Comment: carl pandalo, in new jersey is a convicted molester. . has amitted
to molesting over 40 girls and is a jw in good standing. . . and he still
goes door to door. . .
October 13, 2002
Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/victimsofabuse. msnw
October 13, 2002
Comment: Who ever said the 23,000+ pedophiles within the org have been
convicted? That's the whole point! The abuses have been hushed up, the
accusers have been told they'd be in serious trouble and most likely
disfellowshipped if they accuse anyone or tell others of the abuse done,
etc. No authorities are informed, the elders don't do jack about the
accusations, they only sweep it under the rug and the abused continue
to be abused. All the while the molesters are knocking on doors with
their preaching. Do you ever consider the latch-key kids at home alone
with *people* knocking on their doors? We're NOT talking about convicted
molestors here! That's the whole point! No one knows they have molested
children because it's all kept quiet!http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/victimsofabuse. msnw
Linda Thoman
October 13, 2002
Comment: The answer about a pedafile is only partially correct when
it comes to contacting the neighborhood. In some states, the police only
contact schools so the school officials can be responsable for children
while in their care. Some of those schools post where parents can see
them and some don't. I know of a case where a young girl 4th grade was
looking at a publicly posted bulletin board at a school and noticed that
one of the persons on that board was "currently coming over to her
house". I told the dad and he confronted the level 3 child molester.
The child molester simply told the dad that he didnt think it important
to share the "unknown" facts about his criminal history. The
dad told him to leave and not come back. Not every state bothers to tell
a neighborhood. Many do not. Beware. I would say it is a very high probability
that a child molester lives in nearly every neighborhood in America.
America, don't be ignorant. It may your child that is saved from a horrible
act.
October 13, 2002
Comment: If there are so many repentant pedophiles who have been forgiven
- why have none of them posted their sorrow, their shame, their grief
for what they have done here or anywhere??? Or at least write a letter
to Bill???? That is the thanks you get for "forgiving" someone
who is not repentant. Why have they not come forward and confessed? Why
do they continue to let the silentlambs take the "heat?" Jesus
died for us - that is the kind of love that is required to be a Christian.
Any so called christian who harms a child and does not confess, make
retribution, but feels entitled to forgiveness not to mention a prominent
place in the congregation is wicked and evil. Look at the divisions the
pedophile has caused with the help of the WTS, the elders and the members.
You feed the aggrogance of the pedophile and humilate the truly humble
with your "forgiveness. " A child has the god-given right to
be protected and it is the god-given responsibility of the parent to
protect their children. . . just like our Father in Heaven protects us.
This is not about forgiveness but protecting children. To the WTS it
is about their image and lawsuits. To the average JW it is about obeying
the WTS and waiting on Jehovah.
October 13, 2002
Comment: hi' what happend? I don't see any messages from Oct. on on the
web page. Happy Thanksgiving anyway!rmk
October 13, 2002
Comment: rmk-I created an address if you want to talk via direct email.
rmktoday@aol. com. Jayson
October 13, 2002
Comment: ****the mole**** The saddest point in any persons life is when
family members of the same faith deny the love they should express towards
one another but based on false reasoning of the scriptures they take
upon themselves to ignore you and tell others not to associate with you.
To have an opinion is our right and a gift from god himself. Has anyone
read the new book published at our last assembly "Worship the Only
True God"? The title should be "worship the Organization or
Else. ". . . Throughout the entire book it has frases such as this, "This
world is saturated with the spirit of independence from God and his laws.
So we need to curb that spirit in ourselves. " I, who has been a
member since birth can see this, but so many who have been so indoctrinated
are blinded by these sentences. Did God not say in Genesis "we shall
know right and wrong", this is the definition of being independent.
Maybe Genesis should say "be that a drone and not think but be told
to do only right. " The organization is setting themselves up for
demigodship. We must resist the evil of ignorance or lest someday another
Hitler be raised in our ranks because we where to afraid to say no. . . ****THE
MOLE***
October 13, 2002
Comment: Josh - Are you aware that some men are given women's names?
A lot of times, it's a name of a very loved relative, usually already
passed away. Not always, but frequently, you'll find a man signing his
name, for example, J. Charles Steinway. The letter "J" could
easily stand for Jane, Janice, or any other woman's name that starts
with the letter "J". It's been customary to do this for a lot
of centuries. This reminds me of Johnnie Cash's song, "A Boy Named
. . . " - I forgot what the boy's name was; it's a girls name. I
learned the HARD way to not assume anything but to ask questions if I
thought something was odd or didn't make sense or didn't agree with what
I thought or knew. We don't always remember to do that, though, even
when we've learned that lesson. Our emotions are deep and they DO get
in the way of really listening to one another sometimes. - Janice
October 13, 2002
Comment: Josh - That song Johnnie Cash made famous is, "A Boy Named
Sue". I loved that song and he did it good, too. - Janice
October 13, 2002
Comment: Janice, Josh,Jayson, Bio: what about a reply to the post regarding "repentant
pedophiles?" If I recall the boy named "Sue" had to be
really tough and defend himself because of his name. . . not too different
than a silentlamb having to get really tough and defending themselves. . .
Where are the repentant pedophiles you forgive???? What have they done
in the congregations as acts of repentance??? What just retribution have
they endured? How have they paid compensation to the ones they destroyed?
Like to hear the other side of the "story. " I am listening
and waiting and listening and waiting. . . still waiting. The question is:
where are the repentant pedophiles and how do they prove to you they
are repentant and deserving of forgiveness and trust???? Just one story
would do. Maybe this isn't about forgiveness but TRUST. . . and you have
to at least trust your friends or THE friends to tell you if someone
is dangerous, don't you think???? I am waiting for a reasonable reply.
What does the WTS say is repentant actions for a "sorry pedophile???
How do they determine this???
October 13, 2002
Comment: I AM 45YRS OLD AND HAVE BEEN AND STILL ARE OF WITNESS FOR 31YRS.
AS A YOUNG CHILD FROM 5-9, I WAS ABUSED/MOLESTED BY A BABY-SITTER. UNFORTUNATELY,
IN TURN, FROM THE AGES OF 10-14, I ABUSED/MOLESTED OTHERS I. E. , (2) OF
(3) OF MY YOUNGER SISTERS, (2) AUNTS, A COUPLE OF SISTERS IN THE CONGREGATION
AND EVEN A NEIGHORHOOD GIRL. I WAS NEVER FOUND OUT BUT, AT AGE 15, I
STOPPED AND TO THIS DAY DON'T EVEN WHY I WHAT I DID AND HAVE COME TO
ABHOR THAT CONDUCT. LATER IN LIFE (MY MID-30'S), I APPROACHED AND APOLOGIZED
TO ALL PARTIES AND SURPRISELY A COUPLE DID NOT EVEN REMEMBER THE ABUSE. I
HAVE BEEN DISFELLOWSHIPPED TWICE (GREED RELATED-LOVE OF MONEY) AND EVEN
SPENT 5YRS IN PRISON WHICH WAS AN EYE-OPENER AND GAVE ME A GREATER APPRECIATION
OF SELF AND OTHERS. I AM NOW AT A POINT IN MY LIFE WHERE I AM SUPER PROTECTIVE
(EVEN TO THE POINT OF BEING A LITTLE PARANOID)OF ALL FEMALE MEMBERS OF
MY FAMILY, THE CONGREGATION AND WORK. THE WORD IS "CONSEQUENCES".
INDIVIDUALS WHO ENGAGE IN THE MISCONDUCT SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE "SPIRITUALLY" AND "CIVILLY" REGARDLESS
OF TIME. JESUS SET THE EXAMPLE - "THERE IS THE LETTER OF THE LAW
AND THE MORAL OF THE LAW". THE MORAL ASPECT AND PROTECTION OF CHILDREN
MUST ALWAYS COME FIRST. JEHOVAH IS A GOD IF JUSTICE BUT HE GAVE OF THINKING
ABILITY WITH WHICH TO REASON. KEEP UP THE FINE FIGHT.
October 13, 2002
Comment: fcol-There is no way for a rapist of a child or an adult can
ever do anything to replace what they take from thier victims. I could
not ever "forgive" a rapist in the sense of a "pardon" it
is that simple. They are not "pardonable" they are not "curable. " They
are not "trustable" period. If I chose to "forgive" in
the sense of no longer "hating" the dickhead then that would
be good for me because then the creature no longer has power over me.
That is what rape is about, contol. It is not about sex. It is about
power. That is the main reason that I comment here. Over and Over I keep
saying you are in control of you. You are your own authority. The wt
says that anyone can leave any time they want to. The wt says they do
not make anyone do anything they do not want to. Yes, the average or
any jw could leave anytime they want to the problem is they can't want
to. The wt is full of crap. And jail just might be the only safe place
for the scum if it hurt someone in my family. And if some dingleberry
elderoid told me to "pray" and "wait on Jehova" I
would kick him in in his teeth!-Jayson (clear?)
October 13, 2002
Comment: Jayson I do not agree. Yes, rape of adult women is mostly about
power. It is a crime of violence. However, I feel pedophilia is motivated
more by extreme sexual perversion. Anyone who deviates from the norm
in a sexual way has potential to be a molester of children. There is
of course an element of control and power over the defenseless victim.
But pedophiles are deviant in the same way towards children as homosexuals
are toward their own sex. These abusers are motivated by unnatural desires
and satisfying their selfish urges comes before all else. There is little
concern for the age or consent of the victim. I'm sure you and I both
agree on one thing though: these filthy, perverted animals MUST be stamped
out, no matter what the cost. RPT.
October 13, 2002
Comment: Great. Now we have round-the-clock deleting of all my posts.
Fuck you, Bill Bowen. the anti-john.
October 13, 2002
Comment: Don't get me wrong, I dislike anti-john and his inane comments
as much as the rest of you. But this business of deleting stuff that
makes you look bad smacks of WT tactics. I know you just want the problem
to go away but there's got to be a better way.
October 13, 2002
Comment: "I'm sure you and I both agree on one thing though: these
filthy, perverted animals MUST be stamped out, no matter what the cost. "///////
I am all for the "out" part but what do you mean by "cost?" And
it is about power I can say sexual power but it is about the type of
contol like all rape. We used to call the rape of women just about sex.
It is not, it is contol. Date rape is not about sex, it is about the
power to choose sex with out consent. My will over yours. "I will
take your control over your body away from you. " It is about power
and self gratification not "just" sex. It is an act of violence.
It is about taking innocience. It is in every aspect of the word an abomination.
To say that they are just of a diviant type of sexual creature belittles
what they do. They are worse than just a predator. They also can kill
the spirit of the victim. Those that can recover are survivors. God bless
them. Those that can not I pray that God comforts them. I pray that they
find an earth angles to help them heal and help them take back what is
taken from them. Give them Justice. I will do more research on child
rapists however I think it is much more insedious than just sexual deviation.
It is evil. "The willful infliction of harm upon another be it mental
or physical. "-Jayson
October 13, 2002
Comment: Someone wrote, What does the WTS say is repentant actions for
a "sorry pedophile??? How do they determine this???. . . Forgive me
for laughing, but the answer I have is so pathetic it makes me laugh.
First of all, you must be "in" with the right people, the right
Elders, and have them as your buddie friend. Then you have to cry real
hard, and alot, and say things like What have I done to Jehovah? Then
you cry some more, and more again. My brother, an Elder, had an affair
with a witness sister who was also married. This affair went on for over
five months. No coming forward with confessions, and crying and pleading
to Jehovah to forgive him, and no What have I done to Jehovah and all
that jazz. When his affair was found out, that's when the boo-hooing
started. Oh, and he boo-hooed real good! Big crocodile tears on mommie's
lap; torential downpours of tears to the Elder committee, and guess what?
He was simply "reproved". Not disfellowshipped, considering
the affair went on for several months. Nope, just a little tap on the
wrist and off he went to marry the &*% once his divorce was finalized.
Oh, and the Elders even warned him not to even talk to this chick, or
have any contact whatsoever, until the divorce was finalized. Yeah whatever. . . . he
continued seeing her in public places, basically thumbing his nose at
the Elders instructions to him, and still nothing was done in any serious
way. Just tapped on the wrist and sent on his way, by the Elders in the
congregation that he also played basketball with. Hmmmm, I doubt very
much that a pedophile who admitted to hurting children would get much
more than a Shame On You. All they have to do is cry, cry, cry crocodile
tears and know the right people. Linda Thoman
October 13, 2002
Comment: Someone wrote, "Don't get me wrong, I dislike anti-john
and his inane comments as much as the rest of you. But this business
of deleting stuff that makes you look bad smacks of WT tactics. I know
you just want the problem to go away but there's got to be a better way".
I must disagree. This guestbook is for victims of abuse to have their
voices heard. Not to be ridiculed and called names by anyone. It is not
for the perverted pleasure someone derives from posting inflammatory
comments such Anti-John posts here. It benefits no one, and censorship
of these things are well within the right of the moderator/webmaster.
I have a group for victims as well, and it's well within my right as
the moderator/owner of the site to ban anyone I choose for posting comments
that are hate-filled and not beneficial to anyone, especially the victims
for which this site was created for in the first place. Their voices
must be heard, not the rantings of an Anti-John. Linda Thoman
October 13, 2002
Comment: Everybody come to my new group to excape from the evil Bill
Bowen. So far we has 2 members, that is me, and Anthony C. Aardvark.
We welcomes everybody and does not shun anyone. If you would like to
join, send e-mail ronpthomson@usa. com
October 13, 2002
Comment: RE:"Don't get me wrong, I dislike anti-john and his inane
comments as much as the rest of you. But this business of deleting stuff
that makes you look bad smacks of WT tactics"------No, I disagree
with you. We have tolerated many differing opinions, we allow people
to explain why they support the WT and how the elders are just imperfect.
Okay, but the Anti-John is mentally disturbed and abusive, he needs professional
help or a room in a hospital. Whatever---but his dangerous threatening
rantings should NOT be allowed here
October 13, 2002
Comment: I said it before and I'll say it again. MY comments are NOT
favorable toward pedophiles. They are focused on the victims. I think
all pedophiles (all serious criminals actually) should just plain get
the DEATH SENTENCE. Why spend our hard-earned tax dollars on feeding,
clothing, educating and helping criminals when so many good people are
going without? After YEARS in jail, yes, they may develop better thinking
ability but that's not the majority of cases from what I know. It doesn't
matter if it doesn't serve as a deterrent. For those that it doesn't
stop, they should get the death penalty. Besides, the Bible tells us
that there will be a resurrection of the good and the bad. Therefore,
to protect society, there is the death penalty. For the benefit of the
criminal, also an imperfect human who only GOD knows why they're like
they are is the resurrection of the BAD. However, THEN, they will have
a sound mind and body and they will have the opportunity to enjoy peace,
nurturing and LEARNING about what is right and wrong and being able to
make those decisions. If they won't learn, they will get a permanent
death penalty. The GOOD thing is that they won't be able to harm anyone,
as they do now, in God's kingdom. Also, I want to know WHO'S ASKING?
You did not sign your name but you're making challenges of people who
DO sign their names. Hmmm, I wonder what word THAT would be to describe
a nameless challenger?
October 13, 2002
Comment: rj/aa/aj/jwd/ Did I miss any of your personas? Are you here
to just have fun? Its hard to see people hurting is'nt. I mean, as a
Jehovah Witness you get doors slamed in your face, called names and worse.
Your religion is not accepted as even Christan anywhere but in the Kingdon
Hall (other wise known as the slave hut). And your Bible has been proven
a fraud time and time again. You are right as a Jehovah Witness your
fake bible is not needed for a book study. Just memorize your answers
to your little cute magazine that most people round file. Your growth
is stagnating in all but Africa (I may be wrong on that) It must be scary
to think that if even a portion of what is said here is true. The Watchtower
might fall. What then little man. I feel sorry for you. No wonder you
pick on people here. Where else could you go to and get the type of power
or attention that you with your all your personalities that you get here.
It must be fun to kiss your watchtwower shakles every night just before
you go to bed. I think that you are like a bad smell. None of your posts
have a shred of substance. I think that they are becoming rather wussy
like. Are you getting board? I'm not. I enjoy helping people to improve
their lives and realize that they have all the power and contol that
they need. In or out of the wt. I'm sure that when the elders hear of
all your works here you will be richly rewarded for all that you have
done for the wt cause. If you are not one gosh man go get a jw card.
It is people like you that give it the "fine" reputation that
you have all over the globe. I would love to see some responsible God
fearing men and women (in awe) inherit the reminites of the society.
I think that rmk would be just "duckie!" Of course he might
have the building imploded. HA! that you be a sight. Don't you think.
Of course all this might be a big time drop. You could be right. We are
all just gay and do not know it. But with all your obsesion with Bill
and his sexuality I think that the anti-john is crusing for a peice of
ass.
October 13, 2002
Comment: I think we should just ship all the pedophiles off to that
country, you know, that really filthy one that everyone hates. . . and
make sure they can't leave. Also we should send all our garbage and nuclear
waste there. And I agree with the above poster (who forgot to sign his
name), God's Kingdom is the answer to PERMANENTLY ridding the earth of
this scum. If you don't support God's Kingdom and the permanent end to
all injustice and man's inhumanity to man, then you are PART OF THE PROBLEM,
not the solution. RPT.
October 13, 2002
Comment: Comment: Janice - why don't you write the society about your
idea? - October 12, 2002 -- I already did. Don't you think that they
read the comments here? They keep up with everything. They KNOW they
used to use women when there weren't enough brothers. That was true during
the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. Actually, during that time, we didn't have
all these problems among us, either. It's only been since so many men
are assigned as MSs and Elders that aren't ready for that work. There's
a lot of favoritism, too, as well as promoting family members of some
sort. The society goes by the recommendations of the elders when they
approve someone for a position in the congregation. These spiritually
immature men have created a lot of the problems you see today. Some are "recruited" right
after baptism and put on the "fast track" to congregational
responsibilties. This isn't scriptural. They should be using the women,
sisters, who have proven to be PROPERLY faithful over a period of time
to handle positions such as the congregation accounts, magazine and literature
servants, etc. I'm not talking about giving talks and conducting the
WATCHTOWER study, however, that's been done, too. The sisters wore a
head covering to show respect for the men, as the Bible counsels. MY
opinion is that brothers shouldn't be appointed simply because they're
MALES (in particular) or a family member or a favored person that isn't
based on SOLID SCRIPTURAL QUALIFICATIONS. The society can't continuously
second guess the recommendations of the elders that are requesting the
appointment of one or another. However, they should WONDER and START
CHECKING OR THEMSELVES when a congregation starts having more than the
usual difficulties and REMOVE the elder or elders that are causing divisions
and dissention among the flock. THEN, they should appoing a good woman
who has proven herself, not just in field service but in wisdom and love
until a GENUINELY QUALIFIED MALE REALLY becomes available. They know
that's in the Bible and that they've operated that way in the past. -
Janice
October 13, 2002
Comment: i just love those dinkalberries the anti john and no name mary
janes. . . they liven up the site with wt propaganda. . . it's like an un biblical
jc kangaroo court in a back room were you have the facts . . and the elders
are calling you a whore for busting the wt in lies. . . and we all know
what the bible says about lying in the name of god . . . so i say let then
stay . . . i love to here how i'm a lesbian and satan. and the biggest sin
of all i can't spell. . . that will make the jehovah in bklyn. . unhappy. . . . john
October 13, 2002
Comment: actually, john you're just a pathetic loser.
October 13, 2002
Comment: And, by the way, I think the ones that are causing dissention
and division in the congregations are the nasty elders who make victims
squirm and are impotent in handling matters quickly and appropriately.
If I was an elder, I would tell the society a thing or two if they ever
told me to "just ask" if the brother molested a little girl
or boy. If he denies it, forget it. I'd let them know that they're in
violation of HUMAN DECENCY if nothing else and that I wouldn't do things
that way. I would NEVER allow ANY of the elders to question a small child
about every detail of the molestation. It's none of the business of an
elder or elders. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHAT WAS DONE TO THE CHILD?
That SOMETHING was done that was inappropriate IS ENOUGH! HOW MUCH doesn't
make it a smaller or greater crime. It's a disgusting crime, period.
It's the SAME DEGREE of crime no matter WHAT or HOW MUCH was done. Just
TOUCHING inappropriately is a crime! It's the SUGGESTION of sexual abuse
that is a crime. THAT is how it STARTS? It, usually, puts a child on
guard but A BIG PERSON is telling them it's OK. They seem to ALWAYS start
with "just touching". THAT, IN ITSELF, should be enough to
HANG PERVERTS! - Janice
October 13, 2002
Comment: Re: Comment: Janice, Josh,Jayson, Bio: what about a reply to
the post regarding "repentant pedophiles?" If I recall the
boy named "Sue" had to be really tough and defend himself because
of his name. . . not too different than a silentlamb having to get really
tough and defending themselves. . . *** I was talking ON A LIGHTER NOTE
here about "A Boy Named Sue". Lighten up. I think they say "chill
out" now. Yeowzer, the black slaves survived because they didn't
lose their sense of humor and they used SINGING to help relieve their
stress and cope with their circumstances. Just because you're at a support
group web site doesn't mean you can't SMILE and SEE SOME HUMOR sometimes.
You want the help of JWs on the "inside" but you're real crap
to them. Make up your mind NO NAME or are you just plain ARGUMENTATIVE
all the time. THAT is a good reason for one or others ignoring you! That
happens OFTEN to you, doesn't it? - Janice
October 13, 2002
Comment: Janice, do you ever wonder why everyone here wants to attack
each other? The answer is simple. This is a site for bitter-and-twisted
apostates and people who have been abused or had relatives abused. None
of these people are even capable of having a sense of humour anymore.
Sad, isn't it?
October 13, 2002
Comment: Here's a thought. Why don't people try to rise above the bad
things that happen to them in life. Yes, the whole world is groaning
in pain. Right this very moment a billion children are near near death
because they don't have enough food to eat. Other kids are regularly
getting their little hands and feet blown off by land mines. And yes,
there are countless millions of battered wives and abused children who
continue to be victimised, again and again. So why spend your whole life
bashing JW's? That's just honing in on one very small segment of the
problem. DO SOMETHING POSITIVE. Rise above it all, enjoy your life, and
get the most out of it. Or get out there and actively fight against all
forms of inhumanity. Work hard towards a better future for everyone.
Trust in God to clean up this whole stinking mess that we've made of
the earth. Yes, us. Grow up, and stop looking for other people to blame.
RT
October 13, 2002
Comment: *****the mole*** a comment from an elder from today when i
asked him about the material. "we should obey and not question because
if we do we are going against god's organization. " Bill we have
lost before we began. Let us continue to fight. We are evil for being
independent and saying something about the evil we see in our halls. . . . . the
mole*******
October 13, 2002
Comment: Janice I have sincerly tried to reach out to you. This site
is an open forum for now. I would like a type of chat so that there was
more structure to talks like this one. I like this site because ( I got
to meet you) as you say by appointing less than qualified elders to positons
of major power over individuals lives is weak leadership at the hierarcy
level. Women in regard to leadership are not 2nd class. They are not
a class at all. That is one of my major issues with the JW's. I have
confronted JW's on this very issue and they claim that women have never
had any role in leading. It is not their place. Then it was backed with
Gen. about Adam & Eve. I know that all this is not wt history or
doctrine but it is what is. And it is flawed. You it that on the head.
But you also seem to be edged to attack these people. I do not care if
you are male or female. You will recive the same respect from me. And
the same challenges. I assume no less from you. Also people here are
learning. Some like me have really be screwed by zelot warlord like elders
who would rather sacrifice me and my family than admit an fault at any
level. I know that is an individuals problem but in your religion it
is a plague. People have gone from being persicuted to being the persicutors.
Even in the case of rape. I think that there is always room for a U-turn
if you are going the wrong way. But first you must admit that you are
going the wrong way. You guys assume that you are the only religous path
that is worth walking. Every religion of the past that has made that
claim self distructed. None have been able to give one ioda of proof
that they have any more divine truth than my little finger has. I love
God. I belive that through the teachings of Jesus Christ you can know
of a God that is a loving Father as opposed to an angery disapointed
Warlord. We need to protect all of our children. It seems quite clear
at this point the Jehovah Witnesses have failed to do that for many,
many people. There is so much evidence that this is true. Brown's statements
are enough to show that. If you want to live under the thumb of that
kind of stupidity it is your right. But it is my right to tell ever person
on Earth that if you become a Jehovah Witness and you are assulted by
another Jehovah Witness then you can not seek justice. Unless you hire
a full time body-gaurd with a cam corder. Janice you seem to know what
is going on. It would be nice to have some JW's who are not afraid to
stand up publicly and say there is a need for change. Would you be willing
to to that?-Jayson
October 13, 2002
Comment: Thanks for the reply, Josh. I guess we'll have to "Agree
to Disagree" and/or Time Will Tell. . . /SLC
October 13, 2002
Comment: Dear "Name": Thanks for the reply and comments. Sounds
like a good plan to at least inform the medical commission about any
JW employees and how they are "trained theocratically" to share
information in private medical records. --- Interesting story you told
about your experience with the younger JW lady. And you're right, the
young 'uns don't hang out much with the senior types. --- As far as smokers,
you described it well, i. e. , stress will do it to ya. And silentlambs
is made up of ALL supporters and/or victims, whether DA, DF'd, current,
active, inactive, etc. The officially policy is "We don't ask, so
you don't have to tell" since anyone's current standing (or habits)
is not the issue or main focus of silentlambs. Please see the 10-9-02
statement by Founder Bowen, posted on 10-11-02. I think that sums it
up nicely. But thanks for your concern and obvious insight, which is
more than we can say for alot of people! ;-) ----- I wouldn't bothing
using the "Name" section of the reply window for now. I have
tested it several times but it is not working, at least not yet. That's
why I put my code-name-initials at the END of my posts. /SLC
October 13, 2002
Comment: Hi everyone! Please go visit www. DANNYHASZARD. COM who posted
a comment here on 10-11-02. It's "for real" and not one of
anti-John's fake sites. Danny has a Guestbook similar to this, and you
can write him a Thank You for hosting silentlambs video and stuff. /SLC
October 13, 2002
Comment: Thank you from Greed & Love of Money for your post. Your
honesty is appreciated by me. Sounds to me like you are truly sorry and
it sets some sort of example of what it sounds to hear a person who is
repentant and sorrowful as well as worthy of forgiveness. So sorry that
you were molested as a very young child. Sometimes I think it takes a
lifetime to sort it all out what was done to us, what we do in reaction
and then coming to some sort of peace with it all to the point we can
become a better person. You were very courageous to post here. Thanks,
Soapbox
October 13, 2002
Comment: THE MOLE: I noticed along time ago how the "answers" during
the WT study on Sundays were not in people's words, but word for word
out of the paragraph. A long time ago it was encouraged to use your own
words, not any more. Any show of our own thinking is discouraged at the
KH. True independance is a relationship with God. That is as good as
it gets. My abusive husband use to call me "independant" because
I could think, reason, had integrity and but most of all he could not "manipulate
me. " If they can't manipulate you, they call you independant. Emotional
blackmail. We are dependant on God and Jesus always and people hate that.
How is your grandmother? Love, Soapbox
October 13, 2002
Comment: If you don't like the apostates here, or the ones who have
been abused you can leave. We are not here to entertain you or amuse
you. If you don't like hearing all the "blame" being put on
the WTS don't come here. BONNIELYNN WHERE ARE YOU???? Now that girl makes
us laugh because she is really funny and we know humor when we hear it.
Love, soapbox
October 13, 2002
Comment: The MOLE had written: "Has anyone read the new book published
at our last assembly "Worship the Only True God"? The title
should be "worship the Organization or Else. ". . . Throughout
the entire book it has frases such as this, "This world is saturated
with the spirit of independence from God and his laws. So we need to
curb that spirit in ourselves. " ------ How about this one from the
The WT, Aug, 15, 2002, page 18 paragraph 10: "When someone wants
to know why you do not take part in some unscriptural custom of practice,
do not be satisfied with saying, 'It's against my religion. ' SUCH AN
ANSWER MAY SUGGEST THAT YOU LET OTHERS MAKE DECISIONS FOR YOU, and THAT
YOU MUST THEREFORE BE a member of a CULT. It might be better to say,
'God's Word, the Bible, forbids it' or, 'It would displease my God. '
Then give a reasonable explanation. " ----- Seems the society is
a little of the defensive? Question, though: What if there IS NO Bible
explanation or prohibition for whatever question the JW is replying to?
(Such as 1914, the anointed being chosen/cleansed 1918, etc. ) Then what
is the JW supposed to say? "I believe it because they told me too. . . " ---
Back to the drawing board, fellas. ;-) /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: That's very brave of 45-YRS. OLD to visit here and admit your
perpetrator abuses. I am glad to hear you became repulsed at your actions,
turned away from that activity, and apologized to your victims. That
says a lot How many perpetrators actually do THAT? /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: LOL! @ Onan The Destroyer and his Delete Key comment! Anti-John,
if you would "place nice" and keep your tongue in check, but
you refuse. I think the moderators of this or ANY guestbook have the
right to delete trash mouths, etc. Anyone who wants a wide-open say-anything-you-want,
foul, vulgar, etc. , you are always welcome to start your OWN discussion
board. Right? Freedom of Choice works BOTH ways. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: I agree with Linda Thoman's observations about "How To
Repent of One's Sins" JW-style. Crocodile Tears, yeah baby! Works
every time it seems. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: I must completely disagree with the person who wrote: "None
of these people are even capable of having a sense of humor anymore. " ---
Quite the contrary, dear. Here, have a laugh: ----- A man in a hot air
balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and spotted a man below.
He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me, can you help? I
promised a friend I would meet him an hour ago, but I don't know where
I am. " --- The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon
hovering approximately 30 feet above the ground. You are between 40 and
41 degrees north latitude and between 59 and 60 degrees west longitude. " --- "You
must be an engineer," said the balloonist. --- "I am," replied
the man, "How did you know?" --- "Well," answered
the balloonist, "everything you told me is, technically correct,
but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact is
I am still lost. Frankly, you've not been much help so far. " ---
The man below responded, "You must be in Management. " --- "I
am," replied the balloonist, "but how did you know?" --- "Well," said
the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are going. You
have risen to where you are, due to a large quantity of hot air. You
made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect people
beneath you to solve your problems. The fact is you are in exactly the
same position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my fault. " -----
LOL! Have a laugh and then apply it as you see fit! :-) /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: Get a grip, anti-john -- and didn't you say your name was Ron
P. Thompson? It's obvious by the content of what I wrote: What I mean
by FAKE is that YOU are a FAKE, and from your track record here, it's
a 99. 99% positive that ANYTHING you say or create is FAKE (i. e. , CONTENT).
You can put up all the websites you want, but that does not mean they
are NOT FAKE. But, by all means, continue to enjoy yourself and your
'creations. ' I guess it does provide a "hobby" for your warped
personality. /SLC ----- Anti-John wrote: "SLC you are a liar. I
have never, ever not even once posted a "fake" web site. If
you go to http://www. anti-johnisanutcase. com you will see that the link
is live and the site definitely real. the anti-john"
October 14, 2002
Comment: MORE photos of the Silentlambs NY March on 9-27-02: 22 pics:
http://www. cartogra. com/rs/475CA5F3-DE2A-11D6-B42C-0090277A760E -----
3 pics: http://www. supportforxjws. org/lambs3a. html ----- And you can
thank the lady here: ----- /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: ALL NY MARCH PHOTOS TO DATE (that I know of). Enjoy!! /SLC
----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- SLIDE SHOW of PHOTOS:
Click HERE for the slide slow: Which takes you HERE: ----- ----- http://www. cartogra. com/rs/475CA5F3-DE2A-11D6-B42C-0090277A760E
----- http://www. supportforxjws. org/lambs3a. html
October 14, 2002
Comment: Video of News Coverage 9-27-02 on the WB Channel #11 in NY.
Enjoy! /SLC: http://www. seattle-chat. com/video/ There is now a mirror
site for the video, if it says download site 1, just hit refresh to get
the mirror site, download site 2.
October 14, 2002
Comment: VIDEO of the silentlambs March: Scroll down the list to: "SILENT
LAMBS MARCH (VIDEO)": This is in Windows Media Player: When done,
be sure to watch the Dateline TV program from May and the Panorama TV
program from June. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: NY MARCH VIDEO in Real Player at this site: I now have part
one of four parts of the Silentlambs march on Brooklyn September 27th
in 56k version (grainy) and DSL version up at: --- 56K: http://www. dannyhaszard. com/march1sm. html
--- DSL: http://www. dannyhaszard. com/march1smdsl. html --- This is a better
page for linking and sending to others: --- http://www. dannyhaszard. com/brooklynmarch. htm
--- I can only put a couple of the DSL versions up at a time, since
they are about 30 megabytes each, but will have the 56k versions up regularly.
Actually the video was shot by Jim Rizoli (I credited Joe by mistake),
and he did a good job. The whole thing is an hour. Pretty good action,
especially to see the doddering old Henschel who had years to correct
his "theocracy" but would not. Shame on these old men for harboring
pedophiles! Let me know what you think. Randy Watters - Net Soup! http://www. freeminds. org
October 14, 2002
Comment: SILENTLAMBS FOUNDER, B. Bowen, is in GERMANY THIS WEEK and visited
the German Branch. Great pictures (with article in German) here: http://www. infolink-net. de/docs/news/silentlambs-selters. htm
----- AND here: http://www. infolink-net. de/ ----- DO WE HAVE ANY GERMAN
VISITORS HERE WHO CAN TRANSLATE THE ARTICLES??? HELP!!! ----- This info
obtained from here. . . ENJOY! /SLC ----- --- Topic: Bill Bowen visits
German WT branch office --- posted by GermanJW Oct 13, 2002 13:21 ---
On 12th October, Bill Bowen went to the German branch office in Selters/Ts.
He came not further than the gate, where he was allowed to contact Werner
Rudtke, member of the Branch Committee, via telephone. After some minutes,
Rudtke excused for his "bad English" and connected to Hans
Obermeier, another Bethel member. It seems that both knew whom they were
dealing with. --- They said this was an American topic and hence Brooklyn
was the place to be contacted by Bowen. They said, in Germany only a
few isolated cased are known. (Operator words: "ARE KNOWN. " /slc)
--- Bowen was accompanied by members of an Ex-JW-Organisation and a former "silent
lamb". --- END OF POST.
October 14, 2002
Comment: To whoever wrote this (NAMELESS???) --- "SLC-Jehovah does
NOT NEED humans to vindicate him but he DOES USE humans in this manner. . . " ---
YES, WE KNOW! And people like B. Anderson & B. Bowen and other supporters
(as the HUMANS they are), are doing just that! Vindicating the "LITTLE
SHEEP" (hence, vindicating God since children are HIS to begin with)
that "Jehovah's servants" NEGLECTED since they were more interested
in "WAITING on Jehovah" and "Protecting the WT Image" to
do anything about it. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: Good "comeback" john to the "you can't please
everybody" donkey story. /SLC ----- John had replied to the donkey
story: "that's right you can never please everybody. . . and in over
120 years the wt has never pleased god jesus ,the holy sprit. the angels
. but they have pleased themselves plenty, with the name of god to mislead
and lie to followers for their own greed. "
October 14, 2002
Comment: Oh, PUH-LEASE, bioharmony. Please take your certification in
psychology, that you read in a book (head knowledge) and flush your certificate
down the toilet! You are speaking YOUR OPNION and YOUR OPINION ONLY.
How dare you Miss Haughty Taughty attempt to put WORDS in the mouths/hearts
of HAPPY SURVIVORS who went to the March in NY??? Puh-Lease!!! Your condescending
judgmental OPINION is sickening and an INSULT to the people who went to
the March to BOND WITH LIKE-MINDED, LIKE-HEARTED PEOPLE who UNDERSTAND,
AND to SPEAK OUT & "Take Back their POWER" which the abusers
and the WT's policies took away. Puh-Lease! WERE YOU THERE? Have you
personally spoken to any of them who were there? I NEVER SAW SUCH A GROUP
OF EXHILARATED & HAPPY PEOPLE!! Absolutely NO ONE was "re-traumatized"!
Your ignorance of how people feel AND FELT in NY or thereafter completely
lacks substance and will certainly make you a very lousy psychologist.
I hope you didn't put your name on the list of Silentlambs therapists
with an attitude like that. Go read some more books! /SLC ----- BIO wrote: "What
concerns me with this whole silent lambs scene is that it making the
victims relive their trauma over and over again. There's no closure for
them until they can put it behind them. Marching on Bethel, going to
the media only multiplies the stress and trauma. Why let the abusers destroy
you? Try to put it behind you and get on with your lives. "
October 14, 2002
Comment: JASON, keep up the good work! I enjoyed your "public talk" outlining
the issues on 10-11-02! However, if the audience is made up of jellybeans,
we can only hope they are sweet and colorful (all except the ones that
taste like licorice. YUK!) Blessings/SLC ----- (Jayson had asked: "SLC
should I just shut up now? I feel like I am singing to that bag of jellybeans. " October
11, 2002
October 14, 2002
Comment: Someone asked: "What does (cert IV psychology) mean?????" -----
It means the person has had their head stuck in books for a long long
time and has no idea how REAL PEOPLE feel, FOUR TIMES (IV) over. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: WAY TO GO, Buster, on 10-11-02. Excellent Summation. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: LOL & Hugs to Soapbox for explaining very well the lambs'
rights to be PISSED OFF! /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: HEAVEN HELP AUSTRALIA since that is where "Bioharmony" is
or will be a practicing psychologist! BEWARE! All that book knowledge
taught Bio NOTHING! To repeat: Lambs & Supporters at the NY March
were the HAPPIEST PEOPLE I EVER MET! And they/we WERE doing something
BENEFICIAL with their/our lives, i. e. , THEY/WE ALL SUPPORTED EACH OTHER.
HEARTS WERE OVERFLOWING Everywhere, HUGS, CHATTER & LAUGHER day and
into the night. SPEAK NOT OF WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW, Mr. /Ms. BIO. If YOU
know SO MUCH, I hope you are making plans NOW to be at the NEXT MARCH
in the UK in March 2003. TRY IT! YOU'LL LIKE IT! /SLC ----- BIO(degradeable)
wrote: "A wound kept open will never heal. Marching on Brooklyn
Bethel, going to the media is keeping the wound open. The best way to
overcome that stress and anger you feel is to use your experience in
a positive way - like becoming a welfare worker and helping abused children.
Cert IV Psychology is the level I was required to attain in psychology
to become a health worker here in Australia. bioharmony"
October 14, 2002
Comment: PS to bio: It's people like YOU who cause us to feel IRKED
and "Keep Our Wounds Open" because of your obvious and TOTAL
lack of UNDERSTANDING of what "works" and what "doesn't
work. " /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: Somebody PLEASE HELP bio to understand the UN thing. Dear,
please call the UN YOURSELF. No one MUST be a member in order to use
the library or get info from them. Go to www. jehovahs-witness. com and
use the SEARCH FEATURE and type in "UN" and you will see the
documents for yourself. --- And if what you "have been told" is
TRUE, then why did the WT NOT TELL YOU back in '91-'92 rather than wait
UNTIL THEY WERE EXPOSED by the "apostates" mind you, and THEN
they WITHDREW their membership faster than a Jack Rabbit! --- READ THE
DOCUMENTATION, ALL OF IT. Better yet, CALL the UN YOURSELF. "Make
Sure of ALL Things. " /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: BIO- CAPS ARE ALSO FOR EMPHASIS! And yes, you speak of things
you know nothing about, so you deserve our DISGUST. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: What ILL-INFORMED person wrote this??? --- "So to you
who claim that 23,000 pedophiles are knocking on your doors - no chance.
They would not even be allowed to go door to door!" ----- Did you
not see DATELINE?? Have you not read the WTS policies that INDEED YES
they ARE allowed to go "door to door" as long as someone is
WITH THEM? Child, you are speaking in ignorance of the facts. /SLC
October 14, 2002
Comment: SORRY ALL! My posts of the NY March Photos & Videos. . .
well, the URLS are NOT showing up because I used those little arrows/quote
marks on each side of each URL, and for whatever technical reason, it
makes the URL NOT show up! And I am too pooped to re-do them all now.
Soon soon. . . Love ya/SLC (And, btw, the last time I posted by address,
I ONCE AGAIN left out part of it. Correct addy: My_JW_Stuff-OWNER@yahoogroups. com
October 14, 2002
Comment: Question to Anti-John. Are you truly a Jehovah's Witness or
are you some wayward child of a Jehovah's Witness? You either lead a
double life with your language or you are a worldly person with a mildly
held Watchtower belief system. I suspect you are the second. I doubt
if you will ever fit in anywhere. HAS
October 14, 2002
Comment: No need for the personal attacks, people. It's not all book
learning. and I was sexually abused as a child - NOT by a JW but by a
surf lifesaver who was supposed to be teaching me to swim. So I do know
how you feel and that's why I say putting in all behind you is the ONLY
way you can get on with your life, marry and have a happy life as I have
for the past 32 years with my wonderful husband, two children ( whom
I instructed when they were young to tell me if anyone touched their
private parts) and also two grandsons. Being spiteful to me just proves
you are on the wrong track when it comes to healing. bioharmony
October 14, 2002
Comment: Correction: On re-reading it's only one person on the attack
- SL/C. Your anger stands out like a sore thumb and you keep hurling
it at the wrong people. So you have along way to go to be healed. Cool
it! bioharmony
October 14, 2002
Comment: News to hand: A Catholic Archbishop in Australia and a Manchester
United football coach have both today been cleared of child sex abuse
charges. Sadly some adults have trumped up claims of being abused as
children and jumped on the bandwagon to get money. While I believe children
rarely would lie about such things, adults on the other hand are more
crafty and can see a claim of child abuse a away of making a fast buck.
October 14, 2002
Comment: Jayson - I have been standing up to JWs ALL MY LIFE. I don't
hold back and never did - not even as a child. That I think things need
to be changed doesn't change my faith. NO ONE, other than JWs, ever taught
me the Bible and about God's love and his son's importance and love.
Say what you want, you're entitled to think and believe as you want to.
You're not talking to a child. Nor are you talking to someone that doesn't
know what life is like. Quite frankly, it's HARD. There are A LOT of "wolves
in sheep's clothing" every step of the way and ANYWHERE you go and
ANYONE you associate with. I don't have a lot of friends among JWs and,
because I refuse to be like most of them, I'm nastily gossiped abut.
However, I have a lot of respect, too, because my anger is not focused
on hate but love. First, love for my brothers and then love for Jehovah
God and his son, Jesus Christ. Why that order? Because Jehovah says that
you can't love him if you don't love your brothers that you can see.
Just as you think JWs are brainwashed by the information they read from
the Watchtower society, you are brainwashed from the things you read
from whatever sources you're getting it from. Don't try to convert an
old coyote. JWs encourage research. JWs USE OTHER BIBLES besides their
own legitimate version of the Bible. I got EXCELLENT grades in school
(and I still get excellent grades in my continuing education for my profession)
because of my ability to SEARCH FOR ANSWERS as I learned FROM JWs. My
parents didn't teach me. They depended on our secular schools to teach
me to read, write, study, get good grades, etc. I can be very bitter
about their lack of involvement in my growing up. Yet, because I came
from a rough family, my intuition is very keen. After a few hard knocks,
I learned to fight back for myself. However, when I fight, I'm fighting
with the truth and not yelling and threatening. I'm fighting with knowledge
but respectful. Don't mistake that for weak. I write my letters and I
say EXACTLY what I want - with facts, SOME EMOTION (you CANNOT leave
some emotion out but not use so much that the real issues are lost) and
without wavering. There isn't anyone that is going to tear me away from
Jehovah's organization. I know you don't AGREE with that but YOU are
NUTS if you think I'm going to get sucked up into Babylon's religions
that, although they may be a pleasant group of people, are full of religious
untruths. As Peter said when Jesus asked him if he wanted to leave to, "Where
else can I go?" Pleas, Jayson, don't tell me to go with you because
you aren't going anywhere. Am I glad you're speaking out against the
unrighteous policies of the society's treatment of abused and molested
children? Yes. But that's only wanting a policy and policies changed.
It's not a condemnation of the entire religion. I'm GLAD there are some
external voices and not just my own from the inside. Interestingly, I'm
considered right and accurate, even by elders. Some defend me fearlessly.
It's not unusual or difficult to get imperfect human's ideas and opinions
interspersed with teachings in ANY organization. It's recognizing them
and eliminating them from having the leaven effect on the teachings and
the flock. THAT is what you're fighting right now and THAT is what I've
fought for since I was a child. Yes, CHILD. Even though I didn't really
have facts from book learning, I NATURALLY FELT IT when things didn't
sound right or feel right. The more anyone tried to change that in me,
the more I fought for it to not be changed. Simply because you and some
others were duped into believing you had to do whatever you were told
and listen only to what they were telling you is, very honestly and realistically,
NOT TRUE. You were duped because you, probably were very trusting. I'm
not a trusting person. Do I think it's wrong this happened to you? Yes,
because that is what sheep are - they listen to their master's voice.
Whoever was YOUR master, you listened. As we grow, we need to be able
to make rational decisions based on accurate knowledge. Accurate knowledge
doesn't come just from books or only a certain set of books. We need
an anchor. My anchor is the Bible. I go from there. The society encourages
research. Those of us that have a higher education, research very well.
Our instructors LOVE us. They love the different approach we have and
the analytical abilities we demonstrate in our writings. We have our
papers researched and in by the deadline whereas other students want
extra time because they were playing and not doing their work as assigned.
There isn't ONE SINGLE PERSON that hasn't had to struggle in her or his
life. When Jehovah told Adam that he would struggle with the earth to
make it produce food to eat, he wasn't just talking to Adam. He was letting
us all know how tough it was going to be to survive outside of the paradise
he originally created. This isn't the WTS talking - that is LIFE talking.
You're not the only one that's been raped, beaten, molested, robbed,
cheated, etc. Simply because some of us refuse to let hatred run our
lives doesn't mean it was any less harmful or painful for us than it
is for you. What YOU are failing to see and understand is that we've
got more YEARS on you and we KNOW that TIME HEALS ALL WOUNDS. Time doesn't
make you forget, it helps you to be able to keep moving forward in your
life. You're trying to convert, not correct. You're trying to pull people
into your own, limited, experience. To me, you're like a child (and I've
raised some and know - GOOD children but, still, children) that keeps
trying to get a parent to think like they do and not like an adult HAS
to think to continue helping the child grow to adulthood, to keep their
money in the bank where they can continue to provide financially for
the benefit of their household, to keep food on the table, to keep shelter
over their head, to have some comfort in this bitter and otherwise cold
life, etc. However, do you know what is REALLY wonderful for a parent?
It's when they see their child grow - in spite of whatever mistakes they
may make we're just glad they're still in one piece. They get to be late
20s, early 30s, 40s, and all our hard work in NOT LETTING THEM MAKE US
THINK AND ACT LIKE THEM WHEN THEY WERE CHILDREN shows in the wonderful
maturity and responsibility they display. Too, the LOVE and AFFECTION
they give us that they SO VERY READILY DENIED US in the mid-teens through
their early and mid-20s. You still have a long road to travel in your
life. If you try to define YOUR WHOLE REST OF YOUR LIFE with NOW, you're
going to get older and say, as many do, "I got old too fast and
smart too late!" You may feel your life has been hurt and wasted
so far. Well, you know what? Only YOU can hurt and waste your whole rest
of your life now. Take care of the problem? Yes. Stunt your growth? It's
not worth it. Because I do NOT let ANYONE, no matter WHO they are, compromise
me, I have a tremendous freedom inside of me. I really feel right with
God. No one can take that away from me and I won't let anyone take that
away from me. The Bible is ALL ABOUT learning to "read" people
and not get sucked in by them. And JWs have "sucking in" types
of people among them. The wheat and the weeds haven't been separated
yet - in ANY religion. Time will tell if Jehovah God has an organization
and which one it is. When that time comes, NOTHING you can say will tell
me that it isn't Jehovah's Witnesses because I KNOW FOR MYSELF. I look
at EVERYTHING not just a narrow list of things that have only one focus.
Life isn't that way. There are many facets to consider in ANY issue.
Besides that, you don't get to my age without a lot of bumps along the
way. It's not the bumps you get but what you do with them that counts.
This is NOT saying your issues are not important. It's just saying that
the issues need to be handled - not swept under the carpet - handled.
That doesn't mean EVERYTHING in any organization has to be destroyed.
I'm not into destruction. THAT is Jehovah God's job - believe it or not.
- Janice
October 14, 2002
Comment: Here's some information that's sure to rock your Dub world!
http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/subliminalmessages. msnw Linda
Thoman
October 14, 2002
Comment: ******the mole****thanks for asking about my grandmother. .
Our family is now bickering on facts and dismissing much of the broadcast
saying it is the work of the devil trying to destroy god's organization.
My argument to them is why was this guy on TV going door to door. It
is sad that even with crucial evidence many so narrow and seduced by
the society they are reluctant to believe they may have given up much
of their lives to something that my be false. My sister who is a devout
believer is now questioning a lot of things and asking the hard questions.
I brought it to her attention my research these last months on why our
family each has their own point of view on the same topic. I believe
this to be true with those at the headquarters that they have no clue
and this is why bill bowen's issue was dealt with at his local hall.
So many errors they keep making but the hard headed and the brainwashed
will refuse even if the society is publicly exposed for being money venturers
and capitalist. If you remember the letter I wrote to my family and published
on this and other websites, it was an atomic bomb that my family is stirred
up with. I hit them at the core of their faith. If we don't question our
religion we are doomed to suffer a fate worse than Germany. . . ***the mole****
October 14, 2002
Comment: Janice-I don't see how we disagree so much. I thought that
you said that there needs to be change from with in the organization.
I never said burn all the halls. I was saying to act on what your heart
is telling you. I say that if people like you and there must be more
then one stood up and were heard then there would be no need for my typing
this post to you. I do not want to convert you. You are not a coyote and
I am not a sheep. We both have minds. We both can use them. You have
no need to attack me. But, if your religion continues on the path that
it is on. The results will be of its own undoing. Don't say I did not
warn you. -Jayson
October 14, 2002
Comment: Bioharmony, I don't see that people's posts and comments on
being molested or raped by Dubs fits your comments to let it all go and
live your happy life, etc. First of all, I don't believe any of us who
have been molested, male or female, are spending our lives in constant
emotional depression over what happened to us in the past. We have grown
up, some of us have gotten married and have families of our own. The
problem isn't about retribution or vengeance for ourselves, but we post
our stories and past experiences so that newbies can see that they are
not alone, that others have gone through what they've gone through, and
can completely understand where they are coming from, and we are supportive
of each other. My feeling is that we are all working hard to make changes
for the protection and care of children, so that THEY are not molested/raped
in the future. My work and effort is not to keep re-hashing my personal
experiences as a Silentlamb, but to work for the future protection of
children, so they do not go through what I and others have. Linda Thoman
October 14, 2002
Comment: Bio: it is not just SLC that is pissed. Nothing is more invalidating
that telling someone to get over it when they have not gotten over it.
You are opening a wound by not hearing what the victim has to say. The
elders did not listen. The child/parents had to be silent. They stuffed
it for many many years and now they are not stuffing it anymore. How
would you like to "worship" with your elders who did not believe
you and watch them keep the abuser in good standing??? One elder required
the victim's family to have the sex offender to dinner to show that they
were forgiving. Can you image having to do that? And how angry one would
be with themselves for go-along with that? They stuffed it and stuffed
it. ###########Then you further invalidate the heroic efforts of the victims
to stop this abuse by marching, by writing the newspapers, involving
the media. They don't want it to be a secret anymore. Not "just" for
themselves but so that others can stop stuffing it and to warn people
as a preventive act. #### You are re-victimizing by invalidating the
healing process in whatever form it takes. It is the stuffing it that
makes people sick and the longer they stuff it the sicker they get. Maybe
you had some sort of support, many of these people not only had no support
but had to be "nice" to their abuser. Some of these people
had parents who made them stuff it in order to please God aka WTS. ###########Silentlambs
no more - a silent lambs knows when they are not heard, understood, invalidated,
and when their pain is being minimized by someone saying "get over
it. " It is insensitive and selfish. Did you see A Beautiful Mind
or K-Pax? You re-victimize people when you know more than they do about
their healing process. The words "get over it" Sounds impatient
and judgmental. When you talk about how you got over it, you sound superior. #####
I believe that it is important that victims don't do anything that would
exploit them as victims. . . the media, an attorney, a therapist and the
system can do that. No victim should do anything that is not emotional
safe for them, even if it means not taking a pedophile to court. But
for the first time these folks felt safe enough to walk right up to the
WTS and say No More Silent Lambs. . . this is wonderful. Soapbox
October 14, 2002
Comment: RE: 23,720. some people have been wearing out there calculators
with regards to percentages of JWs being child molesters and so on. in
a fax sent to Betsan Powys, BBC Panorama, by the WTS, they stated "In
the United States we do not have records of child abusers who live in
other lands. " so if the figure of 23,720 is correct, then that would
apply solely to the U. S. which could mean there being a lot higher percentage
of child abusers in congregations than previously thought. just a possibility.
**** and for all those who think that an organization needs to be an
NGO to get a UN library card, for goodness sake, learn how to research.
RICH
October 14, 2002
Comment: Good to see you Rich. Buster too. -Jayson
October 14, 2002
Comment: Linda Thoman - It wouldn't be the first time that someone sabotaged
our writing or pictures. A good artist can do that without anyone else
realizing it. With computers, people can do just about anything. Personally,
I think that those pictures in the link you posted require more investigation.
I wouldn't take that on the face value of the evidence presented. - Janice
October 14, 2002
Comment: Not only are pedophiles "allowed" to go door-door,
the are encouraged to do so. Participating in the ministry is a sign
of repentance and being a good JW.
October 14, 2002
Comment: Jayson: I got a big grin when I saw your greeting. Thanks,
and I've been reading your posts quite closely. For the past few weeks
while reading the guestbook, just as I am formulating an opinion, the
next post is from you, saying just about exactly what I was thinking
(usually with a softer tone). Its been kind of eerie. I watched your
discussion with Janice and am struck by her closed-mindedness and arrogance.
She sure can use a lot of words to say only that they just need to do
work thru a few pages of policies and procedures and all will be honky
dory. Its all about the authoritarian structure of the organization and
how its secrecy provides a haven for pedophiles. These are core to the
JW belief structure. - Buster
October 14, 2002
Comment: Sincere question for JWs: I have noticed that several JW posters
of the recent past have used references to other religions, such as "we're
no worse than . . . ", or 'separating is not complete in any religions. '
You know, that sort of stuff. So, since I stopped going to the five-times-weekly
indoctrination sessions, has the Society begun to posture itself as 'A'
religion? I remember a firm 'THE Religion and scorn the rest' attitude.
- Buster
October 14, 2002
Comment: Don't know where these apostates get their info from, but I've
searched the UN site - there is no NGO on that site. The NGO is a news
info site which has many links, including the UN. To say the WT is supporting
the UN is like saying that whenever I pull the plug in the bathtub, I'm
supporting the navy!! Or that posting this makes me a supporter of SilentLambs. com
October 14, 2002
Comment: It's not necessary to GO PUBLIC with child abuse stories to
be healed. I certainly am listening, and if the victims' parents, elders,police,
welfare workers did not listen then they are reprehensible in the sight
of God.
October 14, 2002
Comment: All information on the watchtower and its appearance on the
list as an NGO, can be found at http://www. randytv. com/secret/unitednations. htm
or visit my website www. antijehovahswitness. com for link. Don't like this
new style in guestbook. Prefer old one. Dear Bill, if you read this i
have written a section about your efforts, and what else needs to be
tackled before anyone can ever take this religion seriously again.
October 14, 2002
Comment: ********the mole***** to bill, i thought i would write you
to let you know what the official response is from the society and i
quote from 132- 134 from the 'worship the only true god' publication.
. . . . " Jehovah's visible organization is made up of spirit anointed
brothers located in the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses. . . The elders
who make recommendations and those who do the appointing bear a serious
responsibility before god. . . the offer prayer for the aid of god's spirit
and seek guidance from his inspired word. . . Let us show our appreciation
for these gifts in men who help us all attain to the oneness in the faith. . . appreciatively
accept the spiritual provisions that come through the slave class and
its governing body. . . Our attitude toward this arrangement demonstrates
how we feel about the issue of sovereignty. . . If we serve in any way needed
and AVOID THINGS THAT DRAW UNDUE ATTENTION TO SELF, WE PROVE THE DEVIL
A LIAR. . If we love and respect those who take the lead among us we bring
joy to jehovah. . . By being loyal to jehovah's organization, we show that
jehovah is our god and that we are united in worship of him. ". . . I
guess in reasoning this out, it is the organization that is now our mediator
to god and christ is on break. I thought christ was the mediator between
man and god? so now they claim to be God's channel? is this not an example
of making false prophets? As a brother in the kingdom halls i can see
this, more or less the headquarters is saying shut up and don't question
anything we do. Sorry bill bowen but this is the official attitude to
speaking against rapist and child molester in the kingdom halls. . ***the
mole****
October 14, 2002
Comment: "It's not necessary to GO PUBLIC with child abuse stories
to be healed" True. true. Do you think that there is a right to
go public? That is the issue here. It seems that with every day there
is more and more evidence that these people (sl's) are telling the facts
as they are, as they happened. The WT and the JWD's continue to wish
that is was not what is true, but it is. Not doing anything in the name
of justice is the right of the abused. But if that one that was abused
demands that everyone else stay silent then I say that person is now
an abuser. //// Which does not supervise me at all. Justice, "faith
in the community" was broken for them. Why should it be restored
for anyone else? That to me would be quite close to hell. -Jayson Be silent
no more!
October 14, 2002
Comment: /SCL come to my new group to escape from the evil Bill Bowen.
So far we has 2 members, that is me, and Anthony C. Aardvark. We welcomes
everybody and does not shun anyone. If you would like to join, send e-mail
ronpthomson@usa. com
October 14, 2002
Comment: janice ;;did you forget according to many new wt mag's the
elders are appointed by the HOLY SPRIT. . . put that in your pipe and smoke
it!!!!!!!!!!IF YOU WANT I WILL LOOK IT UP. . john
October 14, 2002
Comment: John - Brothers, usually MSs first, are recommended for appointment
by the elders in the congregation they're in according to the requirements
set out in the Bible. In that sense, they are appointed by holy spirit.
The society depends on the recommending elders to have followed closely
the Bible's requirements for a man reaching out for more responsibility
in the congregation. - Janice
October 14, 2002
Comment: Buster - No, I don't think the society is calling itself a
religion. However, the Greek word IS translated church. In Greece, the
last time I was there, they did call the KH "church" (in the
Greek language). In the eyes of the world, JWs are a religion. They are
recognized as such in many countries. To me, to make a big deal out of
this is not too important as, most of the time, it's true in another
language and it's not meant as some JWs would interpret it in wanting
to be separate and not identified with other religions. Anyway, I've
been around a long time and have talked to a lot of people and we are
all very similar. Interestingly, we all feel the same when it comes to
oppression from our church, family, friends, work, etc. People's feelings
are a strong issue in the Bible and, for the most part, the counsel we
receive is such that we can learn to understand our psychological makeup
and learn to respect it and talk and act in a manner that doesn't harm
one another mentally, emotionally, and psychologically. Actually, also,
not spiritually, intellectually or socially, too. These things appear
to be the moral of a lot of the stories in the Bible as it's usually
talking about people's interactions with one another and the results
of these interactions - sometimes terrible outcomes and sometimes very
commendable outcomes. Much of mankind's anger and hatred seems to come
from our EMOTIONS, our MINDS, our HEARTS. If we viewed everything without
any "heart" interference, it's possible that there wouldn't
be so much conflict as there may not be joy or pain involved. I think
that's why Jehovah's counsel has so much to do with how we treat one
another and the Bible shows us what attitudes and actions bring about
bad or good results. As to how we view ourselves, new information is
that the wheat and weeds have not yet been separated. Right now, Jehovah
God is giving everyone an opportunity to make their choices. JWs used
to think that the wheat and the weeds were sifted way back in the early
1900s. That's where many got the idea that they were already wheat and
all the others were weeds. However, it's clear that, right now, the wheat
and the weeds are still mixed together. Humans don't make that separation.
It'll be JC that makes that separation and it hasn't happened yet. This,
I believe, will help to make more JWs humble in their attitude toward
others. Even as a child, I never liked that attitude of "I'm wheat" and
you are "weeds". It's taken a lot of years to be vindicated
in my feelings about that text. - Janice
October 14, 2002
Comment: Janice: Thanks for the well-stated opinions. I sense sincerity
and thoughtfulness there. You say things that I can agree with all day.
Yup, its all about how we treat each other. But what I cannot get my
arms around is the discrepancy between your stated views and my (and
I'm certain others - especially the SLs) experiences with the JWs. Being
a JW is all about rigidity, separation, paranoia, and most of all, a
sense of compulsion. Its about coming together of two general groups:
those looking to tell others how to live their lives, and those wanting
to be told. (Somebody say Amen) And I'll point to an example you started: "new
information" or "new light. " Why would you need vindication
for your interpretation of that scripture? You felt vindicated because
before that you felt oppressed and put upon to believe what made no sense
to you. It is perfectly OK for religious leaders to continually see how
they may better align their beliefs with divine intentions. What is wrong
is the arrogance, pride, and oppressiveness that comes with one group
deciding that IT is the arbiter of all things scriptural AND demanding
that you obey, and worse, believe everything they tell you. Before you
deny, lets generalize: what would happen if you stood up for what you
believe in the face of WTS teachings? Pick one - 144,000 as a literal
number, 1914, birthdays, male facial hair . . . You would have to either
suppress what you believe is true or face ostracism. That is the choice
you face - and you call that the Truth? - Buster
October 14, 2002
Comment: Janice. I am sorry to tell you this. You know what you are doing
very well. What you stand for is very bad. I could not finish reading your
long post because it is sickening with lies and hypocrisy. If you are
sincere than I am truly sorry because that way you sound naive. But far
from that. what I truly think is that you are a dangerous person. God
holds you responsible for many things. You won't run too far with this
before you are caught. rmk
October 14, 2002
Comment: Tsk, tsk, tsk! All the "loose talk" & threats
of violence from such pristine mouths as Anthony c. aardvrk & the
anti-john! What a great witness you guys are! A witness to the pacifism
the witnesses have always showed, & how well spoken they are! ANTHONY
C. AARDVARK & THE ANTI-JOHN ARE APOSTATES TRYING TO MAKE ALL OF US
FAITHFUL & TRUE WITNESSES LOOK BAD! PLEASE, IF YOU KNOW WHO ronthompson@usa. net
IS, TELL YOUR ELDERS! THIS IS A PLOT TO DISCREDIT US BY JUVENILE RANTINGS & SWEARING!
DO NOT SUBMIT TO THE "EVIL SLAVE"!!!! ELDER BOB!!! elderbob@poop. com
October 14, 2002
Comment: ANTHONY C AARDVARK HERE. ELDER BOB YOU ARE PISSING ME OFF.
IF YOU DON'T SHUT UP I AM GOING TO SHOVE YOUR HEAD UP YOUR ASS AND BREAK
YOU IN TWO.
October 14, 2002
Comment: Saw a movie today about a couple whose son had diabetes. True
Story. They were of some religion that believed that God would heal their
son if the had enough Faith. The son died. It was pride, not faith. Pride
in their show of faith that permitted them to watch their son die. The
father in the end said: without love no fruit of the spirit has value.
Faith without love is pride. Love, soapbox
October 14, 2002
Comment: Anyone who would look forward to spitting on someone's grave
will need luck to make it through! And there is no such luck.
October 14, 2002
Comment: Ever notice how aardvark's and the anti-john's posts nearly
always follow each other? Guess that crack habit the anti-john developed
under the bleachers at the assembly two years ago has finally caught
up with him. he's gone completely SKITZO!! then of course his third alter-ego.
RMKISEVIL, is about to go over the edge, and he just recently developed.
Poor little anti-jonanthonyaardvarkRMKISEVIL! See what happens when close
relatives marry? Now we get to see a version of "three-in-one".
And you say there is no Trinity?. . . The ANTI-antijohnanthonyaardvarkRMKISEVIL.
October 14, 2002
Comment: Want to see the anti-john as he, AARDVARK and RMKISEVIL are
out in field service? Go to www. elvesontricycles. com . The anti-john
is the second person from the right. Nice legs, huh? Oh, by the way,
the two word statement in the upper left hand corner are a direct command
from the Governing Body to anti-john's MOTHER!
October 14, 2002
Comment: Lest I be accused of illiteracy, the statement above should
read "IS the direct command of the Governing Body". . . . Hurry,
anti-john, I think i see some innocent little children over in the park.
If you buy offer them candy, you might get lucky this time! You sick
FREAK!
October 14, 2002
Comment: ***********THE MOLE***** today's bookstudy. Have you read it?
how about this weeks year book? For those not of the faith we are now
being told to tell on those lacking faith to the brothers. Sorry to blow
all of you with so much info this week but cant help it. now I am supposed
to meet with the body of elders this week for my letter to my family.
Ray Franz if you are reading this say a prayer for me. I am next. . . . . ****The
mole***
October 14, 2002
Comment: ANTHONY C AARDVARK HERE. WHAT'S THIS CRAP? I'M NOT REAL? SEE
IF YOU STILL SAY THAT AFTER YOUR HEAD LOSES ITS CONNECTION TO YOUR BODY.
THATS NOT A THREAT.
October 14, 2002
Comment: A. C Aardvark, leave your home address, I'll come over. Then
we'll see. elderbob.
October 14, 2002
Comment: ANTHONY C AARDVARK HERE. NO YOU GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS ELDER
BOB AND I'LL COME OVER AND BEAT YOUR BRAINS OUT UNTIL THEY LEAK OUT ALL
OVER THE FLOOR.
October 14, 2002
Comment: I found a really interesting web site www. countercult. com -
many interesting articles on spiritual abuse. A little difficult at first
- big big site. I searched: "A", then scroll until you find
Abuse, spiritual. Soapbox
October 15, 2002
Comment: MOLE - check out the website that I posted above. There may
be some comfort there to keep your sanity in tact. You know they are
going to go after you. . . and you will be cut off. But not from God!!!Love,
soapbox
October 15, 2002
Comment: evil. I think you made yourself abundantly clear. Ch. T,Russell
was promoting Demonism all his life and separated himself from the love
of Christ by founding a sect of Freemasonry called Watchtower. This is
a fact. That is true Apostasy. You are a follower of his to this very
day. Without Christ you have no salvation regardless how much you shout
Apostasy". The WT and all it's supporters will die soon at Armageddon
or sooner. You are not welcomed here and as a JW you are not allowed here
either. Where are your principles? Do you have any? The WT does not just
like the Devil does not! rmk
October 15, 2002
Comment: To all my friends please do not use my name in a combination
of the evil name. When answering him just call him Evil.
October 15, 2002
Comment: there are 2 forms of apostasy, the first is what the bible
sees as apostasy, and the second is what the WTS sees as apostasy. i
always go by what the bible says. **** good to see you back MOLE! RICH
October 15, 2002
Comment: Buster - I've already said - MANY times - that I'm always in "hot
water" because I do speak up and write letters. I've been doing
that since I was a child - first in my own family, then in the congregation
and organization - PROBABLY BEFORE YOU WERE EVEN AN IDEA in your parents
plans for their life's course together. The DIFFERENCE is HOW I do these
things. Read my other posts. The FACT is that, in spite of our inborn
stubborn qualities (no one, especially people in the "spotlight",
likes to admit they're wrong or didn't understand something right), the
society DOES make adjustments to their beliefs and teachings when they
can make an appropriate scriptural and reasoning explanation. Yes, I
felt vindicated but I HAVE NOT BEEN SUPPRESSED. MY vindication came in
the sense that I AM UNDERSTANDING THE SCIRPTURES. My understanding is
coming from my use of the Bible and the publications. Just because there
are things that I'm not in agreement with doesn't mean I'm not in agreement
with the majority of things. Jehovah's people who truly appreciative
his son's position and importance in Jehovah God's eternal purpose for
mankind WILL survive. The Bible tells us so. You're looking at imperfection
and I'm looking at purpose. NONE of us would make it if Jehovah God looks
at imperfection. I figure most here are 20 to 30 something. Even if some
are 40-something, having passed that more than a a couple of decades
ago, I can honestly tell you that you WILL view EVERYTHING differently
with more experience. You will not lose your sense of right and wrong
but you will, with learning first hand the futility of imperfection and
the accompanying deterioration of one's body and mind, with death closer
all the time, come to understand things that no one can really explain
to you. Your pain is very real. Your wanting to correct the handling
of matters is not from an imaginary problem. Ultimately, you fix one
thing and there's another thing to fix and then another and then another.
You learn, not to give up, but that it's NOT within humans' power to
fix the multiple problems that CONSTANTLY afflict. We're NEW to this
system of things and don't realize that this systems of things keeps
going on with or without us - no matter what we do or how we expend ourselves.
It doesn't change for anyone - no matter how good they are. THAT is why
a total change is necessary and humans just cannot accomplish that -
only Jehovah God can. As to WHOM will die - AND SOON - THAT, too, is
not in OUR hands. It's Jesus Christ who has been appointed by Jehovah
God to make that decision and I'm VERY confident in HIS COMPASSION and
ability to make JUST decisions. I'm not scared nor do I feel the need
to judge or decide about others, either. It's not in my hands to do that.
- Janice - PS: As to the long paragraphs, I really apologize for that.
It'd be nice if I could break it up into smaller paragraphs to make it
easier to read.
October 15, 2002
Comment: Greetings from Germany!. . . . . . . We have made some excellent
contacts in this country as well as other surrounding countries. There
are many silent lambs who are finding their voices and exhibiting great
courage to come forward. I am to meet with a young woman Thursday who
was raped by her JW father who subsequently murdered the resulting baby.
As we speak he remains a JW in "good standing", there are many
still "in" and trying to make it work while suffering from
the affects of their abuse. Another young sister who is still a teenager
has to remain silent as her jw father who raped her, remarries another
sister with two little girls, he to is a jw with privileges in the congregation.
I leave out the details as WT would go after them in short order, but
it helps the reader to see this is a very current and ongoing problem.
These young women need support greater than we can offer. If anyone knows
of counselors in Europe that might be willing to assist, please contact
silentlambs. In Germany there is a long waiting list for assistance and
it can sometimes take months to get in front of help. If you know of
resources or contacts please let me know. . . . . . . . The stories are the
same and many of these cases are documented with correspondence directly
from the Branch. It truly is a worldwide problem. I have interviewed
with media outside of Germany and was able to assist in backing up the
interviews of several abuse survivors. The trip to Selters was interesting
as they were caught completely by surprise. They were well aware of who
silentlambs was as well as Bill Bowen. They shook my hand and accepted
the stuffed lamb as a gift. I will have a further report when I get home,
with pictures to boot. The story was the same with all allegiance going
to New York and to hell with the victims. Silentlambs will have started
a more organized effort in Germany to make known the child abuse issue.
It is interesting to note that when the German PR man was interviewed
by media and asked about child abuse in Germany he made the statement, "We
have no cases of child abuse in Germany. . . " "oops they did
it again. . . " silentlambs http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38659&site=3
October 15, 2002
Comment: Buster if I may. I know that you are capable of defending yourself
(and most here) better than me. But I need to say. Janice as I am quite
sure the post to Buster was yours despite no name. You are a troll. You
come here not to comfort but to "clock time. " To do that at
JWD is one thing to do it here is evil. You are evil to misrepresent
yourself as some one who gives a damn about anything or anyone other
than you. GO AWAY! End my discussions with you!-Jayson
October 15, 2002
Comment: Jayson - Yes, it's Janice. That my name doesn't appear is in
error, not intention. I do NOT count time here. You're in too much turmoil
to want to hear anything else but your own thoughts and opinions. THAT
is understandable. But I think you should let the others talk for themselves,
as you, too, should do. - Janice
October 15, 2002
Comment: Janice. Regardless of what name you use. You are a cruel evil
and cowardly man. You fool nobody on this site. You are a shame on humanity.
My words were wasted on you last week. Please do not answer . We have
better things to do than waist time with you. I think that's exactly what
you want. Do you not?rmk
October 15, 2002
Comment: Jayson: I suspect you are correct. Though I have noticed more
than a few JWDs trying to take that kind of moderate position. They try
to make it look like there is in fact room for dissension and disagreement
in the JW ranks. Perhaps it is a result of their abysmally failed self-image
as a mobilized army. They still see themselves that way, though they
know it doesn't play well in print. Once again you get my opinions in
print before I can. I think this site is getting back to a spot it was
a month or so ago when it was time to put down the aggressive rhetoric
and let people deal with Child Abuse and cover up. With Bill in Europe,
we must have numerous things that should be discussed/reported. (I might
send one more short one to Janice) Take it away Linda T. - Buster
October 15, 2002
Comment: Yow. Whatta load of cry babies. Some of you see that it's raining
outside and you blame it on JW's. Maybe your lives would have been crap
no matter what flavor of belief you got stuck into. I was a JW for many
years. So was my sister. I got over it. She's still pissing and moaning
over how restrictive it was and she's pushing 60. I was the one molested,
not her. Face it folks, there's pervs in EVERY religion and ALL religions
shun "bad press. " Do you really think that a Jewish boy or
girl hasn't been diddled with? That a Pastor or Rabbi or Llama has never
gotten away with molesting a kid? Get over it. Stop whining. And stop
blaming your messed up lives on someone or something else. Chances are,
you'd be a loser no matter what religion you were involved in. :)
October 15, 2002
Comment: Janice: I think the posts would be shorter if you didn't keep
espousing the glories of your many years. Let your points stand on their
own. You may think you've been in hot water, but you haven't. Whenever
it comes down to it, you knuckle under just like the rest. If you didn't
at least keep your significant dissensions to yourself, they would have
bounced you long ago. Over all those years, you have never been asked
about a doctrinal disagreement by another JW? Did you answer as you believed?
Or did you recite the party line? If you are the free thinker you claim,
you have been in this spot and had to pick between 'going along to get
along' or your conscientious belief. The Truth wouldn't put you in that
spot. - Buster
October 15, 2002
Comment: Janice, here's a link for you. This link provides more of the
information on Subliminal Messages within the Org's literature. **click
on the link, which takes you to the david icke website; click on 'MIND
CONTROL' on the navigation bar on the left hand side. then scroll down
to the section entitled ' SUBLIMINAL MIND CONTROL'. then click on 'JEHOVAH'S
WITNESSES' SUBLIMINAL COVERT MIND CONTROL' ENJOY!http://www. davidicke. com/icke/index1a. html
Linda Thoman
October 15, 2002
Comment: Janice, you are dumb. First of all you are (supposedly) a man
with a girls name. Or did you have a sex-change? And secondly you brag
about writing letters and 'speaking out'. All well and good but would
you want to read somebody else's crap letter trying to put across some
personal point of view on doctrine or organizational matters? I pity
the poor brothers that have to read it all. I agree with you though that
the society even if "wrong" eventually catches up on any glaring
errors. Most of the time it's just minor details though and small things
that don't really matter in the scheme of things, ie. in relation to
the vindication of Jehovah's name. /zak
October 15, 2002
Comment: Buster, you seem to be full of crap. Can you explain your comment
here: "If you are the free thinker you claim, you have been in this
spot and had to pick between 'going along to get along' or your conscientious
belief. The Truth wouldn't put you in that spot. " You seem to be
saying everyone should be going with what THEY think is right. That's
why there's 6,000 different religions in the world all sprouting their
own peculiar brand of babble. Yeah, but they're basically similar, aren't
they? /zak
October 15, 2002
Comment: I didn't say I was a man nor did I say I was a woman. I was
only indicating that you (whoever it applies to) were making an assumption
that I was a woman and that you can't tell by a name if it's a man or
woman. Now YOU say that I SAY that I'm a man with a woman's name. I never
said that. YOU are AGAIN making an assumption. *** I've said it before
and I'll say it again: it's ABSOLUTELY AMAZING what each person gets
out of the same written words. - Janice
October 15, 2002
Comment: I get it, you are confused about your gender and not sure which
one is "you" ? You need to get help, or surgery, or something.
October 15, 2002
Comment: I don't ever back down, even under pressure when I know that
I'm scripturally right. I've never been ousted. In some matters, it may
all be in how one presents their case. I'm really sorry if you've met
up with such, apparently, arrogant and judgmental people, especially
in positions of authority. I don't particularly like the spiritual environment
where I live and I get annoyed with our elders, however, you make me
appreciate that we have some really good ones that are not quick to judge
harshly. One thing I can do with most of the elders here (with the exception
of those MSs and elders that are too new to be in that position anyway)
is that a good spiritual discussion can take place and I can bring my
own thoughts, challenges, objections, etc. into it. - Janice
October 15, 2002
Comment: No name - I'm not confused. You are. I'm just not telling you
anything one way or the other. I've tried to reason this our so that
you'd know to not make assumptions but that didn't work. It's not my
fault. - Janice
October 15, 2002
Comment: If you read ALL the posts, not EVERYONE disagrees with me.
- Janice
October 15, 2002
Comment: Did you ever notice how apostates will latch on to any so-called
evidence that 'justifies' their hatred of the WTS? Stuff like "subliminal
messages in WT literature". Please, I mean really. . . people. . . do
you seriously believe all this crap? And so what if the society was listed
to receive press reports from the U. N. ? Believe me, the society keeps
up with ALL current events around the globe. And "the society has
money invested in weapons of war". Yeah, right. Like it was directly
authorized by bethel. They have investments, yes. I'm sure they do research
to check what companies they invest in. Would they deliberately invest
in an arms company? I doubt it. And lastly, how many people here have
said these exact words "I was raped by the elders". One even
said "at bethel". Well, OK, how many elders ? Was it in the
back room of the KH, or out in field service ? Come on, people. Does
any reasonable person listen to this sort of rubbish ? Apostates thrive
on lies, slander, speculation and sensationalism. /zak
October 15, 2002
Comment: janice you are wrong. and in a jw twisted way you are right
. . now i will look up some of these wt gems for you. . i read your long
response to jayson. . i will
October 15, 2002
Comment: janice you are wrong. and in a jw twisted way you are right
. . now i will look up some of these wt gems for you. . i read your long
response to jayson. . the wt encourages research??? you talk the facts???
jehovah's org????you do so much research. . show me in wt teachings from
1914-1918 how jesus choose the wt at that time. . . using wt books from
that time only. . if you read those wt teachings. . up till 1919. you will
know , what the wt says today is plain bull s**t. . it's research time. . .
watch for my posts. . . i'm going to expose your god. . . till you answer
this one problem you can't say the wt is god's org. . start getting some
old old wt's up till 1919. . do research it will take you years. . just
one more for you . . . the wt says now that jehovah got rutherford out of
jail in march or may 1919. . the first thing he did was start the millions
now living will never die campaign. . the world has ended. . . now show me
only facts printed from that time. . about this. . what were the wt teaching
at the 1919-22 conventions at cedar point ohio. don't even try the proclaimers
book on me with all that whitewashed bull. . now we all will see you bare
false witness in the name of the true god. . if you call the wt god's org. one
more time . . WITHOUT DOING THE RESEARCH. . . . I WILL BE POSTING. . . JOHN
October 15, 2002
Comment: so we have another blind and brazen one here zak that "loves" Jehovah
and His Organization the Borg. rmk
October 15, 2002
Comment: Hey zak, you've got apostates and the Watchtower confused with
each other. the WATCHTOWER thrives on lies (miracle wheat, churches to
be destroyed in 1918, the "princes returning in 1925, "why
are you looking forward to 1975, and on and on. . . ), slander (calling those
those members who see through their lies "apostates"), speculation
(all the FALSE predictions you KNOW they have made) and sensationalism
(read almost any cover of an Awake! and see how they sensationalize bad
news). But then again maybe the Watchtower and apostates are really one
in the same. __The ANTI-anti-john
October 15, 2002
Comment: I know of no Christian church that has made as many FALSE TIME
PROPHESIES as the Watchtower. They hold the record, as far as I can see,
for unfulfilled prophecies and date-setting. We are to NEVER listen to
a false prophet. if the GB was around in the days of the Old Testament
they would have been stoned to death, no matter how much other so-called "truth" they
spouted.
October 15, 2002
Comment: WOW;; IT SEEMS when buster ,rmk,jayson,linda,slc,rich ,lawarence,,soapbox,,even
the mole. . etc. tell the facts the jwd's here get all bent out of shape. . . jesus
said people who tell the facts would be persecuted, by followers of a
false god the WATCHTOWER. . . .
October 15, 2002
Comment: JAINICE ; i getting out my new wt's today or tomorrow. . you
will have were the wt says the holy sprit chooses the elders. . . but i
wouldn't want you to stop your research ,that you said your so great
at . . NOW MANY YEARS HAVE YOU BEEN A MEMBER OF THE WT???THAT WILL BE =
TO THE YEARS YOU HAVE BEEN IN DARKNESS???AND DON'T POST ME ANY OTHER
JW BULLS**T I WANT YOU TO SHOW ME FROM WT'S TILL 1919 HOW JESUS CHOOSE
THEM BASED ON WHAT THEY WERE TEACHING AT THE TIME. . . IF YOU POST ME ANYTHING
ELSE . . . YOU WILL BE LYING. . FOR YOUR GOD I HAVE ADCESS TO ALL WT'S TILL
1925 AND WT BOOKS. . . BE CAREFUL WITH YOUR WORDS THE TRUE GOD IS LISTENING. . . JOHN
October 15, 2002
Comment: rmk;; what's happening with the mass action suit. . J_CHITO@msn. com
,. . . john
October 15, 2002
Comment: I don't see how you can discuss correcting the manner in which
abuse is being handled WITHOUT talking about the society's organizational
structure and its beliefs. You all are one-dimensional. I'm not answering
ANY doctrinal subjects here because you who are here to attack the society,
itself, are just using ANY comments to twist them and turn them into
a debate, misusing this support group for your own destructive purposes.
Subliminal messages? In this day of electronics, anyone can do anything
they want to if they have a copy of a page in a book or magazine or a
copy of anything. That's too lame. The issue is correcting this situation
of the handling of molestation victims that exists within the organization.
How are you going to do that? - Janice
October 15, 2002
Comment: IF I MAY INTERUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This arguing is pointless!!!!!!!!
How is this helping anyone?????????? This site is suppose to be a place
to help victims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Has everyone forgotten this???????? Or
do you all just not care??? If a victim came in here I don't think this
would be a place they would feel comfortable sharing or asking for any
help!!!!!!!!! I swear!!!!!!!! I am not online for about a week and this
happens AGAIN!!!! Please!!!!!!!!! Everyone remember WHY this site is
here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If there is anyone out there who needs a kind
and understanding ear--contact my aunt Linda and she will forward the
email to me, or she will help. I can't leave my email addy cause I am
not using my own computer. Please email my aunt Linda at linthoman@hotmail. com------Love,Jesika
Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 15, 2002
Comment: Janice. you are to be admired for your efforts to help the
victims of abuse in the WT organization. You are asking how could we correct
the policies? Well I can tell you. Your leaders were asked already to
do that but they refer to Jehovah who they claim He said . . "on
the testimony of two or three witnesses". . . You got the point?
Please do not pretend stupidity. We know you are playing a game for the
WT. Don't be anxious we are not looking for help from you. Go back where
you belong. You are threshing empty straw. rmk
October 15, 2002
Comment: janice you have not even got up to my posts. . i'm a few days
behind. . so you say your in your 60's or so. . hope you have good health. . you
are old enough to be my mother that's all. . in your life as a jw you lived
through many wt false prophecies. . . lets do some wt history. . in the 30's
the wt said don't go to a doctor,get vaccines,go for appendix operations,used
the ouija board to talk to good angels of satan, don't have children,
dinosaurs are now living on venus, the garden of eden is under the polar
ice cap. . order wt radio active glasses to correct your eye sight. eat
grape 3 times a day to cure CANCER?? ETC. now to the 40'sthe world is
to end in a few months,hitler is the king of the north, britain and the
u. s. are going to lose the war before Armageddon and become dictatorships. ,
don't have children, new light in 46 don't take blood. . etc. . now world
to end in 51 and 54. . . soviet union =the new king of the north . . end
of world with Korean war. . generation 37-40 years from 1914. . jehovah caused
rutherford to preach millions now living will never die in 1925,, the
angels tell the wt what to write in mag's. 60's slow till 1966 sons of
god book with 1975 world to end. . may aug. 1968 wt can only be off by
weeks or months,,not years about 1975. . . i heard it my self at the kingDOM
HALL . . . LOL may 15 1968 no person will ever finish college and make a
career in this system. . km 1974 how wonderful people selling their homes
and spending all their money in the short time till the end. . ???preaching
a false prophecy. . . end now 1984 may 1984 wt 70 years generation. . 86
89 75 tears generation. . 89 all awakes page 4 the creator PROMISE ABOUT
THE GENERATION OF 1914. . TILL NOV 1995 and that beautiful 20 minute wt
sales pitch i heard 1000 times about how it is god's word. . . JANICE WILL
YOU PLEASE GIVE ALL HERE THAT LINE OF CRAP THE WT TAUGHT YOU TO MEMORIZE
OVER THE YEARS. . YOU KNOW HOW IT GOES. . WITH JESUS WORDS IN LUKE ABOUT
THIS GENERATION. . . . WE ALL WANT TO HERE IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!GREAT BIBLE
TRUTH . . . AS YOU SAY THE JW'S TAUGHT YOU. . . don't forget the weeds and
the wheat !!!!!that all went with it. . . . . . . YOU REMEMBER. . . THAT PROPER
SPRITUAL FOOD AT THE PROPER TIME??????YOU WANT MORE LETS TALK ABOUT 2000
???? I JUST GAVE YOU A LITTLE TASTE OF THE BIBLE KNOWLEDGE THAT YOUR
GOD IN BKLYN TAUGHT YOU IN YOUR LIFE TIME. . . NOW HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE
YOU TOLD THESE LIES OVER THE YEARS. . . DID YOU GO BACK TO ALL THEIR DOORS
JUST ONCE AND DO WHAT IT SAYS ON THE FRONT COVER OF THE NOV-1 2002 WT
AND SAY YOU ARE SORRY FOR LYING TO THEM FOR 60 YEARS. . . . IT'S RESEACH
TIME. . JANICE. . . AND I HAVE ALL THE FACTS RIGHT FROM THE WT MAG'S AND
BOOKS. . TRY ME YOU WON'T LAST 5 MINUTES WITH ME. . REMEMBER STICK TO THE
EXACT SUBJECT WITH ME . . I KNOW ALL THE WT TRICKS. . . . MORE TO COME. . . FREEDOM
IN CHRIST TO ALL JOHN. . . . P. S. I KNOW ENOUGH BIBLE ALSO TO HANDLE MYSELF. . . LOVE
JOHN
October 15, 2002
Comment: JANICE;; I DON,T CARE IF YOU ARE A MAN OR WOMEN,OR TONY ARWARCK. . .
. . . WE ALL READ YOUR POSTS. . . NOW LETS GET TO THE MEAT. . . SHOW ME TILL
1919 THAT JESUS CHOOSE THE WT AS HIS ORG. . CUT THE BULL GET OUT THE OLD
WT"S and prove it?????i don't care how many you bare false witnesses
to here . . . . your not getting over with me . . . . let me see you do your
research. . . you said you were so great at. . . i got your number. . . . i'm waiting
for a reply in proper research . . . not from a wt book after the fact. . . . you
want to play . . let see. . . . there are others here that are better informed
than you and i. . . john
October 15, 2002
Comment: That's funny Anthony. Now it's time to put your pj's on and
go to bed. Sweet dreams little boy.
October 15, 2002
Comment: Everyone, I think it is good that the conversation gets spirited
sometimes. But it also needs to get back to the basics sometimes. Lets
see if we can't let the temperature go down and make some room for people
that could use some comfort or direction - or just a place to report
their past problems. We almost completely blew right by one very significant
poster that admitted to being a molester in the past. I'll bet there
was/is much more we could learn by letting a thread or two develop along
that topic. - As guilty as the rest - Buster
October 15, 2002
Comment: Comment: IF I MAY INTERUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This arguing is
pointless!!!!!!!! How is this helping anyone?????????? This site is suppose
to be a place to help victims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Has everyone forgotten this????????
Or do you all just not care??? If a victim came in here I don't think
this would be a place they would feel comfortable sharing or asking for
any help!!!!!!!!! I swear!!!!!!!! I am not online for about a week and
this happens AGAIN!!!! Please!!!!!!!!! Everyone remember WHY this site
is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If there is anyone out there who needs a
kind and understanding ear--contact my aunt Linda and she will forward
the email to me, or she will help. I can't leave my email addy cause
I am not using my own computer. Please email my aunt Linda at linthoman@hotmail. com------Love,Jesika
Thoman Dallas,Tx October 15, 2002
October 15, 2002
Comment: Everyone remember WHY this site is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there is anyone out there who needs a kind and understanding ear--contact
my aunt Linda and she will forward the email to me, or she will help.
I can't leave my email addy cause I am not using my own computer. Please
email my aunt Linda at linthoman@hotmail. com------Love,Jesika Thoman
Dallas,Tx October 15, 2002
October 15, 2002
Comment: Janice: we have to "assume" because you don't say
anything straight forward. It is called guessing what you are trying
to say. You are not articulate, talk in circles and you want to blame
us for getting confused about what you say and what gender you are. You
must have something better to do with your time? I know I do. You might
take John up on his suggestion to read the old wts. . . it's your religion
and we know more about it than you do! No one is lying to you but the
WTS. Read Ray Franz's book, if you dare be so bold, for the truth of
the Governing Body. It will make you sick; heartsick.
October 15, 2002
Comment: I WILL CONTINUE TO INTERUPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is suppose
to be a place of healing. If you want to argue take it into CHAT!!!!!!!!!
Don't put it where those who come here for healing to see the same disregard
for ones thoughts or feelings in a public form. There are places for
this type of behavior!!!!!!!!!!! NOT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am a victim,
and think it is so sad to see all this nonsense going on. If you feel
this strongly about what is being said then take it into CHAT and settle
or argue about it THERE!!!! NOT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!! You are all guilty of
taking the focus off the problem and making it impossible for those in
pain to come here for comfort!! SHAME ON YOU ALL!!!!!!!!! BUSTER---THANK
YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! For the victims email my aunt Linda to get an email to
me, I don't use my own computer so I have emails forwarded to me through
my aunt. She can help or I can help you. Email my aunt Linda--- linthoman@hotmail. com--------Love,
Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 15, 2002
Comment: First I have ever heard, as a health therapist that IBS or
IBD results from being raped. WOMEN get it too. It can be a nervous condition
or even due to food intolerance. So I dont believe your nonsense about
being raped by elders. Sorry - but if you tell one lie then nothing you
say can be believed! bioharmony
October 15, 2002
Comment: TO ALL VICTIMS!!!!!!!! I am a person who will believe you!!!!
The only thing that will make you not believe is if you are lying. Since
I am a survivor, I have a pretty good idea of the truth and untruth.
I can direct you to the proper avenues if you need them. Please contact
my aunt Linda at linthoman@hotmail. com I can't give out my email address
cause I am not using my own computer. My aunt Lin or myself can direct
you where you need to go or to just be there to listen. Email her at
linthoman@hotmail. com-----Love,Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 15, 2002
Comment: TO ALL VICTIMS!!!!!!!! I am a person who will believe you!!!!
The only thing that will make me not believe is if you are lying. Since
I am a survivor, I have a pretty good idea of the truth and untruth.
I can direct you to the proper avenues if you need them. Please contact
my aunt Linda at linthoman@hotmail. com I can't give out my email address
cause I am not using my own computer. My aunt Lin or myself can direct
you where you need to go or to just be there to listen. Email her at
linthoman@hotmail. com-----Love,Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 15, 2002
Comment: I MEANT TO SAY--------TO ALL VICTIMS!!!!!!!! I am a person
who will believe you!!!! The only thing that will make me( I didn't mean
to say you) not believe is if you are lying. Sorry for the typo. Jesika
Thoman linthoman@hotmail. com
October 15, 2002
Comment: john I do not know your e-mails but you can come to my new
group to escape from the evil Bill Bowen. So far we has 2 members, that
is me, and Anthony C. Aardvark. We welcomes everybody and does not shun
anyone. If you would like to join, send email ronpthomson@usa. com
October 15, 2002
Comment: People need to go to where they feel vindicated. -Jayson
October 16, 2002
Comment: Yes i agree SLC we'll agree to disagree. The 45 year old that
wrote in is clear proof to what i've been saying that if people are truly
repentant notice i said truly repentant than we as christians are obliged
to forgive them. As Jesus said in the Lords prayer we must forgive those
that trespass against us. I understand the anger obviously that a victim
would have over this however the elders in a congregation must allow
repentant wrong doers back into the congregation. And usually if one
is disfellowshipped if they are reinstated into a congregation very rarely
do they stay in that congregation. From what i have observed those kind
of people are generally not very popular in the cong regardless of whether
they have been reinstated or not. regards Josh
October 16, 2002
Comment: No offence Janice but i'd hate to be a boy with a girls name
we had a brother in our cong called Robin heh heh. Poor soul. regards
Josh
October 16, 2002
Comment: JANICE: who needs to alter the bloody pictures when they're
already there in the WT publications? just check the pictures yourself
in your own books, and you'll see what all the fuss is about. if you
don't know what you are looking for you will not find it! an 8 year old
child in my BS study group spotted one, when everyone else didn't. he
mentioned it to the group much to the embarrassment of the conductor.
RICH
October 16, 2002
Comment: Janice. Most of JW's are like you stubborn donkeys
or (asses? John and others told you precisely what to do. Why don't
you? All is in your books! Look it up women. What are you afraid of?
The apostates did not put it there. The WT Society did so it must be
safe. PS. Don't belittle John. His spelling is not very good but his
information is accurate. I love John's Passion for the TRUTH. I love
you John. rmk
October 16, 2002
Comment: I think that Jes makes a sound point. Although most of us here
never forget our goal is to offer validation and support to victims of
abuse it is easy to get side tracked in rubbish. I don't know how to
balance giving people the benefit of a doubt verses calling a spade a
spade (Troll and Troll) than I do. Jes you know I will yield to your
lead. You understand this issue better than me. You're my goal here.
I do not trust those who claim that denial and forcing by pressure that
others should do the same. It is neither helpful or therapy to do so.
(to wt'ish) How does just moving on protect the next victim? It does
not. You know really, the brave men and women that have come forward
they are no longer victims, they are no longer survivors; when you come
forward, when you take down the rapist you become a Hero. And people,
we need Heroes I am not such a Hero. I am but that persons "ass" (donkey)
I will carry burdens that are not mine, give support and vindication,
I will even give my money to the cause. But I did not experience your
pain (To the victims) I do not know what you went through. But you are
believed by me. Supported by me. And vindicated should you want it by
being here. The trolls if they get around me any more will be kicked
as an "ass" can buck. Arguing with a troll is to give them
what they want. Talking to a troll, every time you do you allow them
some control. For me once a troll is recognized and others agree; For
Me "end my discussion. " Bio-you are approaching that label.
At this point I think your opinion of not doing anything then was understandable.
You were a child. As an adult you should know better, and you do. But
it suits your real agenda to take the position that you do. It is wrong
to not stand up to rapist and all "controlists" for that matter.
And not just as individuals but as groups. As a group controlists have
much less influence over people. "When one man says, "No I
will not," Rome begins to fear. -Sparticus-Jayson
October 16, 2002
Comment: It never ceases to amaze me how Dubs will comment negatively
on links provided saying that they need more information and more proof.
Then when it's given, they shrug that off with a "you all don't
believe that crap do you?". Tsk,tsk,tsk. Wake up! It's right there
in your own books and literature! If you want to, take your book and
literature and have them enlarged, really big, and look at them yourself!
Yeeeesh! Linda Thoman
October 16, 2002
Comment: Jayson, you have done a wonderful thing for standing up for
this issue, even though you were not a victim yourself. I applaud you
for your efforts and assistance in this cause. The world needs more like
you. As Jesika and I have said many times, this guestbook is for those
who have been molested, raped, sodomized etc by jw's. This guestbook
is not intended for doctrinal bantering and debating over issues or beliefs.
There are numerous other sites for those who wish to argue doctrine.
If Dubs here don't want to take the time to do the research and work
involved in finding out about their religious history and find out things
they aren't supposed to find out, as in The Truth of their leaders, then
so be it. You can lead a horse to water. . . . . ; I have no desire to argue
and debate with Dubs over things they aren't willing to open their eyes
to even the possibility that they were duped, perhaps all their lives,
into believing lies. It's their prerogative to stay blinded, but many
of us have seen the light and are now free of the Dub control. I prefer
to ignore the trolls whose whole agenda is to fill this guestbook with
arguing, debates and name calling. Linda Thoman
October 16, 2002
Comment: look back in the last day or so i left it for rmk. . . john
October 16, 2002
Comment: Thank you for your site, I wish every JW in the world would
read everything in it.
October 16, 2002
Comment: I was so amazed when I stumbled upon this website. I thought
that I was the only person outraged with congregations in reference to
how the handle sexual and physical abuse. My mother was raped six years
ago by her father and when my aunt called the congregation they said
that they would talk to him. Talk was all they did, read a couple scriptures
and shook his hand afterwards. They still go to the meetings everyday
in Hudson, Florida where Brother Robichaud is regarded well by everyone
in the congregation. He molested my mother for a good deal of her childhood
on top of this and completely ruined whatever life she could have had.
She suffers from a number of anxiety related disorders but my beloved
grandfather is still a saint and it is his daughter left weeping in the
aftermath. Hurray for all of you. Keep exposing the real "truth. " Hopefully
this will open some peoples eyes to escape this sick cover up cult.
October 16, 2002
Comment: anti=John. You don't know what love is. rmk
October 16, 2002
Comment: hi hudson fla. did you go to the police or the district attorney. . .
sorry for your mom. look at the guest book in the last month for the
concerned lawyer. . she is helping many victims here. . with the law i met
her she is a good woman . her name is kim norris. . email her at kdnorris@airmail. net
she may be able to help . . . be well john
October 16, 2002
Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "The time of the end is from
1799. . " (WT Nov 1 1922)
October 16, 2002
Comment: Recommendation to Webmaster Anti-Johns posts are going over
the fine line. I would recommend reporting this information to law enforcement.
October 16, 2002
Comment: Hi! what these JW's are doing here is just too offensive to
me. If something substantial is not done about it I would have to go
off the site. rmk
October 16, 2002
Comment: Hi! I am being accused of being a homosexual and a murderous
hater of 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses and compared with Adolph Hitler.
Who here is able to bring this Anti=John to justice? Why should we put
up with such antisocial individual? Why should we accept such extreme
form of abuse from him and his friends?rmk
October 16, 2002
Comment: Just visited a web site for American Family Association - yahoo
is the biggest pusher of child porn- just thought you guys would like
to know. . . also KMART sells absolute filth CD's to american's children.
Interesting site with family values as it's theme.
October 16, 2002
Comment: ANTHONY C AARDVARK HERE. LEAVE THE PANSY ALONE, ANTI JOHN.
HE WANTS TO GO HOME AND CRY TO HIS MOMMY.
October 16, 2002
Comment: RMK - I hear you loud and clear. Stay off for a few days. Email
John, I give him permission to give you my email address as long as he
can confirm it is you. I have to stay out of here because of what is
going on. It is not safe, do some personal correspondence for awhile.
Please? None of us agrees with the slander of you. Love, Soapbox
October 16, 2002
Comment: ****THE MOLE****it is sad that there are those who wish to
chat on this website throwing abuses to one another. it is those who
create disharmony in a place where we need info and sympathy. . . . to follow
up, yes for speaking out to my family with my letter, to those who read
it last month. I'm scheduled for a shepherding call this weekend. I was
told this in bookstudy as i left. this is normally a first step in a interrogation
on faith. The never ending grinding wheel must crush anyone who speaks
against the organization. As i wrote before, the official word is to
ignore and hope the pesky flies go away so that the stench of mistruth
can continue to draw those to its grand design of total control of those
who freely bow to men who assume to be god's in new york city. . . . . ***the
mole***
October 16, 2002
Go to Page 1 | Go to Page 3
|
 |
|
|
Prior
Guestbooks
2003
2002
2001
|
