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August 2002 Guestbook - Page 2
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Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
20:33:12
Comments
Guest Book Test August 6th PM
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:11
Comments
TO Linda who asked about THE REPORT: I learned this much so
far from other sources: It is (possibly) published by a group
out of Florida who call themselves "Two Witnesses Must
Come" (as described in Revelation). TWMC for short. They
feel the JWs do fulfill Bible prophecy and that the WT will
be cleaned up as Israel was cleaned up by JAH. The report
supposedly has some charts comparing where TWMC agrees or
doesn't agree with the society. I have not seen this report
myself, just sharing what I have heard, and everyone's memory
is not solid on these statements, so FWIW. Then at <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10732&site=3&page=3> I
found this: "The Report" (1994) - ISBN 0-9649409-3-0,
with direct quotes from it posted by bjc; and then Dogpatch
wrote: "The 'Report' their website at www.the-report.com/overview.htm;
and this same Dogpatch did a report about The Report at http://www.freeminds.org/history/report.htm
none of which I have read yet. Merely FYI. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:02:26
Comments
I just got an auto-reply from Pres. Bush! Here's what it says.
/SLC ---------- From: Autoresponder@WhiteHouse.GOV Date: Tue,
06 Aug 2002 21:15:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Child Safety
Conference 9/24/02 --- Thank you for emailing President Bush.
Your ideas and comments are very important to him. For up-to-date
information about the President and his policies, please check
the White House web site at www.whitehouse.gov. Unfortunately,
because of the large volume of email received, the President
cannot personally respond to each message. However, the White
House staff considers and reports citizen ideas and concerns.
Again, thank you for your email. Your interest in the work
of President Bush and his administration is appreciated. Sincerely,
The White House Office of E-Correspondence ____ Please Note:
If the subject of your email was a request for a Presidential
greeting, please note that all greeting requests must be submitted
in writing to the following address: The White House Attn:
Greetings Office Room 39 Washington, D.C. 20502-0039 Please
review the guidelines carefully before mailing your request
to the White House. The guidelines are accessible at: http://www.whitehouse.gov/greeting/
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:13:50
Comments
HERE'S THE CHILD SAFETY CONFERENCE INFO from the White House
Website, FYI - /SLC ----- <http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020806.html> ---
On September 24, the President will host the first-ever White
House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children
held in conjunction with the Justice Department's Office of
Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children. --- * The all day
conference, held on the campus of the George Washington University
in Washington, DC, will bring together members of the President's
Cabinet; federal, state and local officials; law enforcement;
corporate leaders; CITIZEN EXPERTS; parents of victim children;
and other leaders involved in the cause of missing, exploited
and runaway children. --- * The conference will focus on a
wide range of topics related to children's safety, including
missing and exploited children; runaway and homeless youth;
international child abduction; sex trafficking of children;
child pornography; child safety and Internet safety, and corporate
and community involvement. --- * For FY 2003, President Bush
has proposed a 26% increase in funding for the Missing and
Exploited Children's Program, which provides training for
state and local enforcement on handling missing child cases
($29 million - an increase of 26% over FY 2002). The program
also supports the Department of Justice's Internet Crimes
Against Children Task Force (ICACTF). The President's budget
request will enable the Department of Justice to double the
size of the Task Force. --- The President will convene a White
House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children
in September. The Conference will promote public awareness
of the cause of missing, exploited and runaway children, and
it will bring policy makers, experts, key officials, community
leaders, teachers and law enforcement together to share progress
made and generate new ideas to help prevent the victimization
of children. --- * The President also announced the release
of a new guidebook - "Personal Safety for Children: A
Guide for Parents." The guidebook is designed to help
parents take specific steps to improve the safety of their
children, and it includes information that children of all
ages can understand. The guidebook reflects the work of experts
on child safety from the Department of Justice, the Department
of Health and Human Services, the Department of Education,
the FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children. It is available online in English and in Spanish
at www.missingkids.com.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:17:28
Comments
Seems to be a lot of JW Defenders posting here lately. Maybe
the presses have slowed down at Bethel and the Bethelites
have been ordered to work overtime on the internet. Why don't
these people gives themselves a code name or handle? Very
annoying when people don't give themselves a name for replies.
/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:19:32
Comments
Someone wrote: "I think this is an attempt to get money....nothing
else." ----- If that were even REMOTELY true for sex
abuse victims, then I'd have to say we have been WELL TAUGHT
by our mentor, the WTBTS, who is a pro at getting money, to
the tune of $951 million in 2000 (or was it 2001)? /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:20:43
Comments
Loris wrote: " Nuf said. As always, Love Ya'll,
Loris" ----- And Very Well Said at that, I might add!
:) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:23:23
Comments
Someone wrote in reply to a WTS Defender: "OKAY, now
I ask, WHO STARTED THE BASHING OF OTHER RELIGIONS FOR HARBORING,
DEFENDING AND ACCEPTING PERVERTS?!" ----- Good point!
For decades the WTS has bashed the C.Church, et al. Makes
them look very bad when their own pedophile issue is exposed.
Seems they forgot Jesus' words, "Let he WHO HAS NO SIN
cast the first stone." Maybe they will learn not to judge
from now on??? /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:31:04
Comments
To the person who wrote to the person who wrote (see what
I mean about No Names???): "Sounds to me like many here
owe a debt of gratitude to JW's. Everybody is using the name
Jehovah, who showed you that, a Baptist?" Yes thank you!
Now I think that it would also [be] appropriate if JW's and
others would thank the Catholic Church Monk who 700 years
ago created the Word Jehovah by combining the vowels from
Lord and YHWH together to come up with name Jehovah! Did you
thank that person from Christendom? What? you didn't? Why
not? Oh, I see, he is part of Satan's Organization. Well,
well, how can we use the name then? Ok, let's just pretend
we didn't know that then. ---------------------- And, here's
another one to add to the list: The society "borrowed" their
2,520 years/gentile times from a man named John Aquinas Brown
(an Adventist maybe, I forget). Of course, the society didn't "own
up" to this fact until it was exposed in Bro. Ray Franz'
book, 'Crisis of Conscience.' It was AFTER that fact that
the WTS belatedly gave credit to John Aquinas Brown in the
Proclaimer's book. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:39:44
Comments
To BAS who wrote: "I heard Bill's coming to England ,
UK, and would be interested in seeing it, any info bill?" ----------
This info from http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi?board=Main&message=2741
.DON'T MISS THIS -- .September 13th - 15th A weekend with
a difference! . Guest Speaker from Kentucky USA will be ..Bill
Bowen -- Bill Bowen will explain how the Watchtower has become
a safe haven for paedophiles and why it silences the abused
in defence of the abuser. If you are for or against the Watchtower
now is the time to speak up and ask your unanswered questions.
-- Out of the Watchtower - into Christ! At Cefnlea Mid Wales
retreat - September 13-15th. For more info email: "mailto:Exjw@hotmail.com" --
Exjw@hotmail.com or write: The Kingdom Publishers Journal,
P O Box 98, Burnham On - Sea, Somerset, England, TA8 2BF .(Postcode
essential) Mobile: 07720 863508
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:51:40
Comments
To the JW Defender who wrote: "I chuckle when I see comments
like ... Armageddon in 2005”. How about this one, “The
JW org wants to establish a new world order and subject it
to its rule” (thanks mole for that golden nugget)." -----
Well, (a) Just Wait And See!!! when the WTS' link to the backers
of the NWO is revealed, even if it is 10 years from now (like
it took 10 years for their UN-connected to be exposed); and
(b) I wouldn't CHUCKLE TOO MUCH 'cuz you might have to eat
your BwaHaaaHaaaHaaa's before it's all over. ----- As has
already been written here, it's not the individual JWs themselves,
but the ORG, THE SOCIETY. A simple look at the Mountain of
Evidence of THEIR OWN HISTORY clearly shows the magnitute
of their erroneous ways. It's hard for a child to see the "error
of their [spiritual] parents' ways..." Sadly, sooner
or later even every JW will have to look at the dirty laundry,
whether willingly or whether forced to face the facts. It's
sad all around, but it MUST occur, as it is ALREADY occurring.
LET HE WHO HAS EARS LISTEN. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:54:20
Comments
To rby who wrote: "please keep me informed on the latest
dealings in regards to the Jehova's Witnesses: court cases,
child molesters uncovered, etc.. my e-mail is rby05371@yahoo.com." -----
My suggestion would be to get on the Silent Lambs mailing
list (see the HOME PAGE, top bars. As for other JW News & Events,
check frrequently at www.jehovahs-witness.com forum. Any late-breaking
JW news is always posted there as soon as it occurs. Or, check
some of the xJW links and sign up for their email notices.
Just a suggestion. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:56:22
Comments
Loris: That was a perfect explanation of why B.Bowen is seeking
an appeal of his DF decision. I knew internally but could
not have expressed it so well. Thanks. And as for the St.
Pete newspaper, Good Going! Probably any child in the area
was too fearful to go public in a newspaper with their story.
Glad to hear things are rolling along! Love yooz guys/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:59:16
Comments
To whoever replied to JW Defender by asking, "For clarity
would you specify which PERSON corresponds to the BAD APPLE?" and
then giviing a Multiple Choice Answer ----- LOL! Perfect description/Multiple
Choices of Bad Apples. Well done! Now stick those Apples on
a popsickle-Stick and dip them in oooey gooey caramel (enough
to cover the true condition of the rotten apple) and hand
them out on Halloween to every JW that comes to your door.
:-) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:01:27
Comments
Hi Mr. Mole, who wrote: "They usually justify this by
misusing the lord's statement, "let the dead bury the
dead." ----- I'd like to add to that by saying the Society
also repeatedly used the scripture where Jesus said, "You
will always have the poor with you," to suggest that
we should not waste our time helping the hungry, needy, etc.
-- Hope you're doing okay, Mole! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:04:35
Comments
To whomever wrote: "I am confused as to what the mission
of this site is." ----- For a Refresher Course, read
the Home Page of this site and associated sections of this
site. The purpose of the site has not changed. If victims
have become friendly and wish to use the guestbook to discuss
other areas of their association with the WTS, What Of It? "New
victims" are still "coming out of the closet" and
posting here. Stay tuned, don't touch that dial, the New Season
is beginning... /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:06:09
Comments
Right on Buster. I learn more every day, now that I am not
afraid to learn anymore, which most JWs are still in denial
and afraid. It takes time, but worth taking a peek at the
WTS's history without our Rose-Colored-Glasses On! (Buster
had written: "I am talking about core beliefs - the very
basis that you claim to cling to. There is no baby in the
bathwater - toss it. - Buster"). - /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:07:49
Comments
THANKS Claudine for the well wishes. And glad to hear you
visit Channel C and J-W.com. I can't keep up with either,
but I keep trying! How's life treating you this week? Some
of my stress is off, now to play catch up! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:13:36
Comments
DID YOU GUYS SEE THIS? ANYONE LIVE IN KY and CAN GO SUPPORT
BILL? (Seems Motel Rooms are becoming more popular) -----
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:45:31 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
New invitation --- Below is the letter I just received at
10:30 this morning by way of my attorney. It appears the announcement
will not be made this Thursday night, for that reason I will
not be attending Thursday. I now wish to invite anyone who
might like to appear before the appeal committee as “witnesses” to
whether I have actually caused divisions in the congregation.
If you would like to offer support in that regard please let
me know. --- 270-527-5350 and I will be glad to explain further.
Regards, bill --- Princeton Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses
-- c/o Presiding Overseer 901 Hopkinsville Street Princeton
KY 42445 -- 8-6-02 -- William H. Bowen P.O. Box 311 Calvert
City, KY 42029 -- Dear Brother Bowen, Arrangements have made
to hear your appeal of the decision made by the judicial committee
that you should be disfellowshipped. The meeting has been
set for Sunday August 11, 2002 at 5:00 pm, at the following
address: Conference Room of the Holiday Inn Express, 173 Carroll
Road, Benton, KY. -- Your Brother, Daniel L. McMullen Chairman
Committee Fax: 270-365-5334 cc: L. Rush Hunt, Attorney at
Law
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:27:30
Comments
Hey BLM! Your question about whether it is a crime for WTS
to send pedophiles door to door... one would think so. If
not criminal then I would think civil neglience would apply
should anything occur. However, why not write Pres. Bush and
ask him (and it could be a topic for discussion at his Child
Safety Conference on 9/24/02!) Keep up that sharp brain of
yours! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:35:17
Comments
To the person (WTS Defender) who wrote that we were wasting
our time sharing scriptures with our own "application" of
those scriptures... I ask that person: Are not the scriptures
ALIVE and exerting POWER? If they are ALIVE, then they BREATHE
into EVERY human circumstance throughout EVERY generation.
Therefore I say unto you: If the shoe fits! --- Is it logical
there only ONE application for ALL scriptures? Even the WTS
doesn't teach that narrow view, so why do you think that way?
-- However, if scriptures don't do it for you, how about some
quotes direct from God's Channel itself (a/k/a literature)?
Stay tuned and I'll have a nice list of WT quotes for you
in a day or two. Best take off your shoes and go wash your
feet between now and then because you will find it necessary
to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some
Tasty Toes, eh? /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:01:33
Comments
TO the person who wrote: "book of the month club".
LOL! I never even thought of that before. Funny. As a matter
of fact, I read a post today that someone figured out that
JWs read an average of 3000 pages of WT literature per year.
Then I did some figuring myself and came up with this: 11
years as a JW x 3000 = 33,000 pages. My NWT says it has 1340
pages. If I had never read any of the WT literature during
those years, I could have read the Bible 24.5 more times during
that time frame (in addition to the regular Bible reading
we did as part of the cong). /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:25
Comments
REPOSTING, since the website has (thank you!) been updated/divided
tonight (August Part 1), and this got lost in the updating.
This was posted FIRST, earlier, before the White House reply,
etc. ----- NOTICE/FYI: I heard on the news today that, due
to the recent kidnappings, etc. in California, Pres. Bush
has scheduled a conference at George Washington University
on 9/24/02 re: Child Safety (missing, exploited and runaway
children). Exploited would cover child sex abuse, so wouldn't
it be great if George W. invited B.Bowen & B.Anderson,
et al, to the conference to speak about religious organizations
who exploit children? We don't we all email him and ask? I
already emailed Pres. GW Bush and suggested this at: President
George W. Bush president@whitehouse.gov (Of course, only if
Bowen and Anderson would WANT to go, that is...) ----- See
auto-reply above to the email, and see above the info on the
conference from the White House website. Thanks! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:15:01
Comments
REPOSTING to Linda: (This one also seems to have gotten lost
in the website update): You asked about the year 2005. The
only thing I have seen so far is at this site: <http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm> I
believe (didn't read it, too tired) they are taking the 1935
year of the Great Crowd new light and adding the 70-year lifespan
= 2005. Here's the info from that site, FWIW. /SLC ------------------
*** Watchtower 1997 September 15 pp.10-15 Will You Be Faithful
Like Elijah? *** 10 Who, then, was this coming Elijah? His
identity was revealed when Jesus Christ said: "From the
days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens
is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward
are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied
until John; and if you want to accept it, He himself is 'Elijah
who is destined to come.'" Yes, John the Baptizer was
the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Matthew 11:12-14; Mark
9:11-13) An angel had told John's father, Zechariah, that
John would have "Elijah's spirit and power" and
would "get ready for Jehovah a prepared people." (Luke
1:17) The baptism John performed was a public symbol of an
individual's repentance over his sins against the Law, which
was to lead the Jews to Christ. (Luke 3:3-6; Galatians 3:24)
John's work thus 'got a prepared people ready for Jehovah.'
11 The work of John the Baptizer as "Elijah" showed
that a "day of Jehovah" was near. The nearness of
that day when God would act against his enemies and preserve
his people was also indicated by the apostle Peter. He pointed
out that the miraculous events that took place at Pentecost
of 33 C.E. were a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the
outpouring of God's spirit. Peter showed that this was to
happen before "the great and illustrious day of Jehovah." (Acts
2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32) It was in 70 C.E. that Jehovah fulfilled
his Word by causing the Roman armies to execute divine judgment
upon the nation that rejected his Son.-Daniel 9:24-27; John
19:15. 12 However, there was more to come after 70 C.E. The
apostle Paul associated a coming "day of Jehovah" with
the presence of Jesus Christ. Moreover, the apostle Peter
spoke of that day in connection with the yet future "new
heavens and a new earth." (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2
Peter 3:10-13) Bear in mind that John the Baptizer did an
Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" came
in 70 C.E. All of this taken together indicated that something
further would take place as represented by the work that Elijah
had done. What is that? [...] Be Faithful Like Elijah 21 With
zeal like that of Elijah, the small remnant of genuine anointed
Christians have discharged their responsibility of caring
for the earthly interests of the enthroned King, Jesus Christ.
(Matthew 24:47) And for over 60 years now, God has been using
these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples
of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life
eternal on a paradise earth. (Matthew 28:19, 20) How grateful
these millions can be that the relatively few remaining anointed
ones are zealously and faithfully caring for their responsibilities!
22 This Kingdom-preaching work has been accomplished by imperfect
humans and only in the strength that Jehovah gives those who
prayerfully rely on him. "Elijah was a man with feelings
like ours," said the disciple James when citing the prophet's
example of praying in order to show the force of a righteous
man's prayer. (James 5:16-18) Elijah was not always prophesying
or performing miracles. He had the same human feelings and
weaknesses that we do, but he served God faithfully. Since
we too have God's help and he strengthens us, we can be faithful
like Elijah. 23 We have good reason for faithfulness and optimism.
Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before
the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's
spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar
God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that
the great "day of Jehovah" is near. [Emphasis Added]
*** Watchtower 1997 October 1 p.23 Grateful for a Long Life
in Jehovah's Service *** Confident in Kingdom Hope In 1935
we came to understand that the "great crowd" was
not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead
represents a class that survives the great tribulation and
has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth.
(Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who
had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs
was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking. [Emphasis
Added]
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
00:04:05
Comments
TO ALLTHE FOOLS HERE WHO KEEP CALLING THE WT GODS ORG. THE
Spirtual israel etc. read jn:7:18 and write it in your forhead
then read and study until you UNDERSTAND awake 5-22-90 pg.
12-13 fallacies in arguementation.then take a hard look in
the mirror then truthfully go and tell yourself jw's are the
god of the bible his choosen people. the jehovah of brooklyn
and the god of the bible are NOT the same. cause the creator
says thou shall have no other gods before him. and a true
messeger of god will have no falsehood or lie.now lets see
about the wt record , the time of the end started in 1798,99
1829,31,44,65,72,73,75,81,1905,07,10-12,18,20,21,32,check
heb. 1 to see when the last days started jesus returned to
kingdom power 1874 1914 thats not what it says in eph1:20-22
mat 28:18 col 1:13-20 all menbers of the wt were to go to
heaven in 1881, 1912,1914,15,21,32 the world was to end in
1914,15,25,41,51,54,75,86,89,2000 etc. remember these are
all god,s dates and if any jw questioned any of them the wt
god would destroy themfor not being meek to the fds.don,t
forget jesus judged all religions in 1918 and just loved the
idea that anyonenot a follower of russell body would be picked
to the bone by vultures in 1920 ie the finished mystery. i
know you here the praise the angels gave to god when jesus
released the judge from prison in 1918 . i,ll quote a 1959
wt in 1918 jehovah god caused judge rutherford to preach million
now living will never die the world has ended . if my calander
is correct the end didn,t come in 1925 issac jacob, abraham
didn,t come to become leaders of london, newyork r,jerulesum,
and nobody would go bald after 1926. don,t forget rutherford
was more sure about 1925 than noah was about the flood . any
jw want to go to venus the wt said it,s a paradise thats were
your jehovah sent the dinosaurs. let the wt measure your nose
and skull to see if smart enough to do the preaching work.
get your mericle wheat 100 fold better than normal wheat here
that farmers. having trouble seeing how great wt wheat is
order wt radium glasses to help correct your vision. Icould
go on for months with the proper food at the proper time that
jehovah,s spirit org. has printed. i drive a truck in bronx
ny i stop everytime i see a wt zombie in the street and use
the bible and thier own books to make LIARS out them show
them they follow a false christ. but of course i,m not meek
because i follow the bible to prove all things true and not
worship the WATCHTOWER.and just believe what the fds says
with out testing it. jw,s have no reasoning power they read
one verse to you and say see were gods people. and feel justified
never willing to test weather thier teaching hold any weight.
when invited to a kh i love to ask if they read these old
wt books most times they will yes until i start pulling books
off the shelves i love to watch elders and overseers who were
brough in to answer my questions foam at the mouth after calling
me a liar read it in thier own libraRY. j_chito@MSN.COM IN
INVITE ALL INQUIRIES
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
00:45:39
Comments
Hmmm. Let me see. Hello, this is the JW defender responding
to SLC. Let me repeat some of the things I said in my earlier
post, to refresh your memory. In summary: 1) “Read the
bible. See how clearly Jah states time and time again what
constitutes fornication, adultery, slander, loose conduct,
apostasy, every sin this world is swimming in.” - Can
you shed some light on how those sins are handled in your
new org, whatever it is at this point? How do you feel about
adultery? Fornication? Please share your views, I'm
sure the Catholic, Protestant, and Baptist crowd here is eager
to see how you interpret God's law, and how it applies
to those that break it. Another line from my original post
2) “ Give me a BREAK already with the talk about failed
bible predictions. If you read the bible, which I'm
sure some of you do, you will find that many faithful men
and women didn't have a full understanding of what Jah's
purpose was. Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions.
What would you say to them?” – Well, I'm
waiting for your reply, or anyone else's for that matter.
Go on, reach in your back pocket and pull out the reasoning
book, follow up with the WT cd, and look in the bible. Please
comment and enlighten those who thirst for knowledge. I'll
say it again, no matter how many verses you quote, no matter
how flowery the language you use, no matter how many quotes
from 1901 you use, this site amounts to a JW bashing party.
Look at your quotes. Look at everyone's quotes. How
often has a child abuse victim benefited from your inane observations?
Oh, before I forget, when you reply, please include your view
on the Trinity. Also, tell us who is the Faithful and Discreet
slave, since you know so much. Since you're so versed
in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think
it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal
clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are
necessary. Anyone that says “you will find it necessary
to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some
Tasty Toes, eh?” is a wise person and should be listened
to. lol
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:08:35
Comments
i watched the panorama programme, pleased that it went out
nationwide for all of the uk to see the things that are going
on, and covered up within the WT organization. My family took
part in a BBC 2 programme 5 yrs ago called 'Close up' highlighting
child sexual abuse to some extent. My husband was an elder
who reported to both the congregation, and the legal desk
an allegation of abuse. Both the body of elders and subsequently
the legal desk at bethel advised my husband to leave it as "probably
nothing would come of it, dont stir things up". The upshot
was that my husband told the police of the brothers wherabouts,
he was arrested and charged with 4 counts of sexual abuse.
He pleaded guilty to 3 of them and escaped a prison sentence,
apparantly the fourth would have sent him to prison. He then
had to go for some sort of sex offenders course as part of
his sentence. This man was supported by the congregation and
as far as I know remained as a JW. My husband was so disgusted
and horrified at the stance of the WT org he left, and I left
shortly afterward. We have since done much exploration into
the WT and come to realise, examining definitions and activities,
that the WT is a cult and as such is at liberty to abuse its
members in any way it seems fit. It devastates me to see all
these young people suffering at the hands of the WT policies
and I pray that they will eventually 'see the light' and leave.
I have almost finished 4 years of training to be a counsellor
and I would be more that happy to help some of these young
people to get their lives back. Linda Birt e mail lindabirt41@aol.com
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:38:19
Comments
JW Defender or should we call you Tasty Toes? . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I don't
believe this is the board or the forum to discuss doctrine.
If you want a serious discussion of any of the doctrinal points
you listed just take the questions to JWD or similar boards.
.. … . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . However I will gladly comment
on this quote of yours * Since you're so versed in scripture,
go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically
wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to
establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary* .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . For over
twenty years the watchtower required TWO witnesses to ONE
act of child molestation and because of this requirement certain
men (Pandela, Fitzpatrick, doubtlessly many others) were able
to abuse multiple victims. Now JR Brown tells us that the
two witness rule can be used if there are TWO witnesses to
TWO different acts of child molestation. Since the Bible is
so crystal clear , WHAT CHANGED?
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:50:44
Comments
To "07 Aug 2002" who started off by saying:"Hmmm.
Let me see."_____________________________________Lets
let our Awake 10/8/68 answer one of your questions. "True,
there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end
to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing
happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false
prophesying. Why? What was missing?..Missing from such people
were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding
them."______________________I will also include for you
this handy dandy bashing suggestions provided directly from
our Watchtower Society. http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/wtchurchattack.htm
I hope that you can use these examples in your constructive
critism of the Catholics, Baptists and anyone else you dislike.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
11:07:19
Comments
TO THOSE WHO DEFEND WTS: Bill is accused of causing division
because he stood up against what is grossly wrong and those
who are doing gross wrong, and those who are supporting what
is grossly wrong. **********The word of God is alive and exerts
power and is sharper than any two edged sword and pierces
even to the dividing of the soul and spirit and of joints
and marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentons
of the heart.***********************I would say that Bill
Bowen and the rest of us here have experienced this aliveness
of God's word and the power of it. **********To even think
that Jehovah or Jesus would ask for two witnesses to a crime
against a child, and the intention was for us to obey blindly
is ridden with evil intentions and against the teachings of
Christ.**************************Protecting children is not
exactly worshipping a Golden Calf, not protecting them is
the same as scaraficing them to a god.**************************WTS
have divided themselves from Jehovah God against all reasonableness
and that is the source of the divisiveness. ****************are
we moaning and groaning over the detestible things i.e. pedophila
or are we moaning and groaning over the ones who are moaning
and groaning over the detestible things?????**************WTS
dialogues with "professionals" like Stark who have
no vested interest in the righteousness of God, or the any
love for the sheep, and then they won't talk to Bill Bowen.
Nor will they consider the gravity of pedophilia except to
pay it lip service and df anyone who wants protection for
children not JUST lip service.**********************Anyone
who thinks the theme of all of us is to BASH WTS needs to
seriously study their bible and seriously pray to Jehovah
for insight. The WTS is bashing Bill and those like him by
calling them apostate while the WTS have no love of righteousness
and is not even open to resolution. Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
11:09:22
Comments
Hugs for Bonnielynn !!! She called me with a Stupendous, Fantabulous
idea. This is something everyone can do. Big city, small town
it doesn't matter. Every place has law enforcement. Ask the
law enforcement in your town if it is against the law for
an organization to KNOWINGLY send known pedophiles to do door
to door canvassing work. Make copies of J. R. Brown's letters
and statements from the WTS website as proof. He has admitted
that a "repentant" pedophile can go door to door.
In fact that is what they are told to do. Yes they go with
someone else, but the other person does not know that the
partner they have in the door to door work is a pedophile.
In fact they could be one too. Neither of them would know
since it is all kept secret. So do you think your local law
inforcement would be interested? You can bet your Bippy they
would !! (Love Ya Bonnielynn) and Love Y'all to the rest,Loris
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:27:47
Comments
I've been reading this site for several months now and I have
a question. I agree with all that has been said about the
silentlambs. I will get to my question in a minute. My view
is that there hasn't been such a tavesty since before the
flood when Satan and his demons came to earth and took namely
all they chose of women. Today the same situation is occuring,
do you not think that Satan is behind this, do you not know
that he sees and gets pleasure out of it. My question is why
do not the brothers see this? In fact they are covering up
for them. So if indeed this is the case, what are we to do?
Flee, flee to what....Who else has the teachings of life?
Will Jehovah not stand up and settle this matter? jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:42:32
Comments
Only man can make God's Law inequitable...and Jesus fulfilled
the law, did away with it and gave us the command to love
one another. Two witnesses is a guideline used by WTS in an
inequitable way without love. It is used to hide behind when
all else fails to cover their tracks. If this were not so,
there would be no problem. It did not keep the congregation
clean or promote love among the sheep. How many pedophiles
on file would it have taken for the WTS to realize that the
problem was only getting worst with each act of neglect on
their part? I guess they can say that it isn't very spiritual
to be upset about not waiting on Jehovah to do something about
the pedophiles and ill-treatment of victims. But I guess we
can say that is the poorest excuse every heard to do nothing
ourselves. So if the "goal" is to have love among
the sheep, a clean congregation, to worship Jehovah in truth
and righeousness - how is it that such hatefulness exists
(pedophilia & supporting them), dirt and filth contaminating
the congregation, and lies of selfrighteouness prevail????
Where are the fruits of the spirit and where is this thing
called loved? Blind love is blind to righteouness,and truth.
It is not the love Jesus recommended. Does Jesus love a pedophile
who goes out in service more than a child now grown whose
spirit is broken by inequity???? Does Jesus love a pedophile
who does his hours, places his magazines and does not take
responsibility for the devastation he/she caused???Does Jesus
Love those who support a pedophile and re-victimizes the victim
with this support. Or is this just all the victims burden
to carry??? Is a den of inequity a den of inequity or not?
********************************When Bible truth is twisted
to such an extent that right is wrong and wrong is right,
one must look to the source of this teaching. Jesus is High
Priest and He taught love of what is good, and benefical and
he also said that to what you do to the least one of these
you do to me. Jesus is watching and reading the hearts of
each of us. No one is exempt from this examining of the heart.
To allude that Jesus would tolerate the mistreatment of children,
the broken in spirit for any reason is against all the teaching
of Christ - these were the people He loved the most and died
so graciously for. For anyone, even the WTS, to teach any
different is apostacy to the true teachings of Christ. The
yoke of Jesus is light and it is a wrong teaching to burden
the burdened, to break the spirit of the broken in spirit,
and to mistreat the innocent by calling them workers of lawlessness.
Amen, soapbox
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:50:47
Comments
Hi SLC, bjc here. I'd like to mention a few "facts" not
correctly understood by most who hear of this book called "The
Report". Also a few point about the people associated
with it. In reference to "The Report", I've been
associated with "The Report" book and related literature
and its publishing for over a decade now. *******************In
the beginning, the author of "The Report" maintained
a PO Box in Florida early on (1991-1994) since that was the
first place the book was promulgated thru newspapers to as
many Jehovah's Witnesses as could be reached in the area.
Nevertheless, it has always been based in Alabama, where the
publisher actually lives. (The name "TWMC Publishing" was
recently changed to "EMC Publications" by the author
of the book.) The author did maintain a couple of websites,
www.the-report.com and one before that for a few years, but
it has since been discontinued. (1994-1997)***********************I've
noticed there is a lot of misinformation about the book and
what the book actually says out and projects for JWs on the
net, such as Randy's freemind.org and jw.com. This statement
is an example of misinformation: "...it is reported they
believe that JAH is going to clean up the WT". Absolutely
false. They DO NOT believe Jehovah is going to "clean
up the WTS". They believe the WTS is incorrigibly wicked,
irreformable and will in the end suffer "total destruction" as "Babylon
the Great", shortly to be fully revealed. (See page 59
of "The Report" Volume I.) In addition, they also
believe specifically that the Governing Body will in time,
be revealed as the "man of lawlessness", someone
beyond reform. (See pages 168-182 "The Report" volume
I.) As you recall, I posted information on the "man of
lawlessness" on silentlambs to you and a few others,
and you posted it on jw.com. *******************The "Report" shows
that practically all of the 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses
worldwide, the people themselves are largely duped by the
WTS, given only an "elementary education" of scripture
(only fundamental truths, like correct view on "hell" [grave],
no "hellfire," no "trinity," man to live
on paradise earth", etc. It is easy to prove that many
of these very same fundamental "truths" still "live" within
the Adventist Community, where C.T. Russell got them in the
first place. For example, G. Storrs on hellfire, immortality
of soul. C.T. Russell learned these viewpoints directly from
him. Also CT Russell inherited his "achilles heel" teachings
from the adventists too. Like 1914, invisible parousia, and
a 2-stage second coming of Christ. The "Proclaimers" book
pgs. 42-48, 132-134, 631 give eloquent testimony.) Of course
most know these are all ease to prove falsehoods! In fact
CT Russell, history books shows, joined Adventist Jonas Wendell's
group between the years of 1870-74, and was a disciple of
this adventist for 4 years, and learned everything he could
from this man. This is something the WTS will not admit. But,
history books reveal Jonas Wendell in 1874, even began to
teach the date of 1914. Russell left the group that same year,
1874. However, N. Barbour accepted this, as he was a reader
of the writings of Jonas Wendell too, in 1875. You may recall,
Jonas Wendell is mentioned on page 120 of the "Proclaimers" book,
as having been instrumental to the education of CT Russell
in his early years. But whats not revealed is the fact that
Charles Russell was a member of his Adventis church, and Wendell
was Russell's church leader for 4 years. They just say it
was a "learning period" of young CT Russell, between
the years of 1870-75, pg. 718 of "Proclaimers" book.
When in fact, history books show, he was a member of the Adventist
Group headed up by Jonas Wendell. Then after that, in 1876
CT Russell meets N. Barbour, but actually contributes nothing
along the lines of any teaching about chronology leading to
1914. This all came all from Adventist N. Barbour. So, the
article of 1877 "Three Worlds..." that supposedly
was so critical to Russell's learning and spiritual growth
thru God's spirit as the the WTS would have us believe, actually
came about inadvertently from Adventists teachings, and N.
Barbour's being influenced by Jonas Wendell and other Adventists.
Russell's only contribution to "Three Worlds..." was
some information on the "Ransom sacrifice" and restitution.
N. Barbour had the chronology and 1914 teaching. But Russell
left Barbour, yes, HE STOLE the 1914 chronology and teaching
from N. Barbour and Jonas Wendell, spiritualized the 1874
date as a special "harvest" taking place of 40 years
up to 1914, which was supposed to be Armageddon. And so on
and so on the story goes...whew! Nevertheless, all of these
facts were hid by the WTS from the flock of JWs in general.****************Meanwhile
back at the ranch, the WTS has been so successful in fooling
non-beroean JWs in general, and fooled them into believeing
that they, WTS actually understand bible prophecy and how
it applies. But in truth, they never taught the "deeper
things of God", like bible prophecy correctly. This "ignorance" of
scripture, makes it easy for the WTS and G.B. to pass themselves
off as the F&DS, but are actually impostors. "The
Report" shows using this insidious format, and misapplying
Matt. 24:45 the WTS/G.B. works to gradually lead JWs into
false worship of themselves in demanding complete obedience
to the WTS/G.B. over Almighty God. Prophecy reveals Jehovah
God is of course, aware of all things. Allows the situation
to develop, it works out as a perfect "test" of
His Name People. It is outright idolatry and will not be tolerated
Him. But how JWs are going to see it as it is? That's the
question. All are aware that God "shares" His "glory" nor
worship with no one, not even Jesus Christ! They know this.
But how will they react, as a people, in reality? (See Isaiah
42:8) *****************So God permits all of these happenings
which in the end, actually force a serious revelation for
all Jehovah's witnesses worldwide. It reveals the great truth
that Jehovah's Witnesses are really God's Name people, mystery "Israel" of
Bible prophecy. And they are fulfilling it, by their every
move and thought. God knows their every move, and speaks of
it thru prophecy, AHEAD OF TIME. Showing His "All-Knowingness" or
Omniscience of the seeming tragedy, that works out as a great
blessing for Israel -- their rebirth as "Israel".
(Matt. 19:28; Acts 3:20, 21)This special "knowledge" of
being "Israel" is forced upon themselves by the
trouble they are led into. But they are delivered from this
Great Distress. (Jeremiah 30:7; Ezekiel 20:35-38; Rev. 12:1-6)
*************************But first they are "disciplined" for
sin, and then God later "restores" them to their
rightful place of enormous favor, as His Name people. All
the world will recognize this as the eternal purpose of God.
(Isaiah 60th chapter) **********************In all of this,
we must remember, the "restoration" of JWs is in
the future, and only occurs for JWs (a faithful remnant, a "refined
third" prophecy says) when they finally learn to SEVERE
their ties with their mysterious leader, the WTS/GB. Then,
the things are put in place for the "restoration" process
to begin. (Zech. 13:8,9) The "remnant" of JWs prove
to be the mysterious "third" (the worth redeemables
of JWs) spoken of in the book of Revelation 8:7-12 and 9:18-21.
But this restoration of "Israel", will take some
time. ***************One things for sure, it definitely requires
God to take special action against "Israel", to
discipline them, as His "sons". His direct intervention
as God Almighty, will show all concerned, that they are not "illegimate
children" at all, but truly His "Sons", whom
He will discipline plainly in the sight of the whole world.
They are His Name People for all the world to see and comprehend,
and understand. Now, even the nations, the world in general,
can LEARN from this display of His Awesome Almighty power
to this special people, and they too, can become His servants.
They can learn from what God does to "Israel" to
serve God Almighty. (See Ezekiel 39:21-24.) *************So, "The
Report" reveals that everybody, everywhere will benefit
from this scenario! Even the "nations" too, get
a learning lesson from all of this. And of course, great praise
is brought to God's Name as a result, as God demonstrates
for all to see, He is one who does not show any "partiality" toward
anyone. He shows no is exempt or out of reach, from the discipline
of His outstretched Powerful Arm, not even His Name people.
By permitting this situation to develop, God shows to all
the world, "Judgment starts with the House of God".
(1 Peter 4:17) *****************And finally with this unusual
outcome of a seemingly dreadful situation, JWs will reach
their final "destination", and realize that "there
really is LIFE AFTER LEAVING the Watchtower Society. Wonderfully
so! In the end, it will become known to all that the WTS was
only a "golden cup" in God's Hand, that he could
discard at anytime. His instrument to use as He chooses, and
discards when the usefulness of it has been reached. They
same way he cast off the nation of Babylon, AFTER they served
their usefulness to His Divine Will. If and when they turn
on their own, to wickedness and idolatry away from God. (Isaiah
30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20; Micah 4:6,7; Jeremiah 51:7) Jehovah's
Witnesses will then learn entire expeience, that it was God
all along that had been helping them. It God, and not the
WTS! Now, after they learn this, they can rightfully re-gain
their original status with God, as mystery "Israel".
A privileged status achieved because of embracing these "fundamental
truths" possessed by the nation that honor God, coupled
with the fact that they willingly shoulded the weighty responsibility
to carry God's personal Name upon themselves, as His Name
people, ever since the year of 1931. **************Many of
you are probably wondering about the year of 1931. Actually,
the year of 1931 has an interesting background with JWs as
a people. This year is important in the history of all JWs
because it started (unbeknowst to JWs) a great, Godly 70-year
instructional period of "teaching" as a form of "discipline" for
the spiritual nation. The key period being between the years
of October 1931 to October 2001. Here are a few points: The
October 15 Watchtower magazine made a number of significant
changes in that year. (1) Put God's Name on the front cover
of the magazine, and has been there ever since, "Proclaimers" bk
pg. 124 (2) Removed the cross symbol off the cover of the
magazine, yearbook 1975 pg. 148 (3) Removed the names of the
editors of the magazine. "Proclaimers" bk, pg. 146)
*************Interestingly, point #3 was further emphasized
with a follow-up article in the November 1st Watchtower with
a straight-forward, hardhitting article called "Taught
of God". This article states, "The Watchtower recognizes
the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature.
The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of
men, nor is it published according to the whims of men...Jehovah
God is the great Teacher of his children." The article
also went on to say that this magazine, The Watchtower magazine,
would be exclusively devoted to bringing out ONLY "God's
Truth that he teaches His children." Thus in this way,
it was to be clearly understood by all JWs, that Jehovah actually
becomes its true editor wherein the Watchtower magazine becomes
the "instrument" of God, and not "the instrument
of imperfect men", "Proclaimers" book page
143. That's why the names of the editors of the magazine was
removed. JWs then recognized that only "truth" should
come forth from this magazine, and not the "whimsical" ideas
of man. But Almighty God would take the lead in the instructional
process of giving His Children, Truth. *****************Then
too, previously, in the Sept. 15th, 1931 Watchtower magazine,
published a very serious article which was written to all
prospective JWs just before the "Special Name Campaign" of
October. This article outlined in detail the grave responsibilities
associated with "carrying the Name" upon themselves,
for all of those who were going to agree to doing this. It
was clearly stated in that article "serious consequences" awaited
all who agreed to accept this Great Name upon themselves,
but later in any way FAILED TO LIVE UP THIS NAME, or they
reproached it in any way. It was agreed that God would bring
these "serious consequences" upon these people for
carrying His name, and for any reproach they heaped upon it.
His Name must be honored in all things, at all times. That
would their responsibility to see that this became a reality,
lest God bring about the "severe consequences" as
righteous punishment upon His Name People. (See Watchtower
7/15/81 pg. 20. par. 17.) *******************So it could be
said that Jehovah God really did begin a 70-year "discipline",
teaching or training period of His Name People, similar to
what they experienced while in their exile in Babylon, as
Daniel "discerned" for himself. (Jer. 33:32; Daniel
9:2) Thus making it possible for Jehovah to take special action
for His Name People, in October of 2001. So, after this 70
year instructional period was up, Jehovah moves into action
by pulling "the sheets" off the Governing Body,
and exposing them as secret 10-year NGOs for the United Nations
in October 2001, on the 70th anniversary of being identified
by God's Name. Exactly on time. If God's people have benefited
from these 70 years of specialized training by Jehovah Himself,
using the "instrumental" publications that bear
His Name, they would act appropriately, as true "sons
of His". They would act as they should, based upon what
they have learned as a people, thru the official "instrument" of
God, the Watchtower Magazine and related publications. They
would recognize what the Watchtower Society was doing, was
pure satanic "idolatry", and would appropriately "flee
from it", 1 Cor. 10:14. ************"The Report" asserts
that JWs are fulfilling these prophecies as we speak. But, "The
Report" shows using Bible prophecy, that JWs will NOT
be destroyed as a people, but will be severely disciplined
or "chastised" by God, as would be expect of a loving
father giving discipline or further training to His Sons.
(Jer. 46:28; Hebrews 12:5-7)*********Whats Ahead For All JWs:
Based upon "The Report" shows using the prophecy
of Ezekiel 34:1-21, Jehovah initially takes action to save
two special groups of JWs. (1) The "Tents of Judah" first.
These particular "Israelites" (Jehovah's Witnesses)display
extraordinary faith in God's prophetic word so as to please
Him completely. These would include all JWs who were wrongly
disfellowshiped or disassociated and since left the JW organization
because of standing for right and maintaining a good conscience
with God, and refusing to practice what is wrong because the
WTS says so. Theses people are first on God's list to "save".
These faithful individuals are one who look to "God's
Prophetic Word" as a "light shining in a dark place" with
complete confidence. Having "faith", they please
their Creator and show outstandingly so, they have benefitted
from the "training" God has provided since 1931.
(Jer. 32:33; Hebrews 11:6; 2 Peter 1:19) What God has in store
for them as a reward, is unspeakably, incomprehensibly wonderful!!!!
I won't even attempt to explain that at this time. But its
reeeeaaaal good. (Jer. 33:3; Hosea 1:7; Zech. 12:7) Shortly
after that great "salvation" by God of which many
of you will probably be a part, Jehovah and Jesus will then
take immediate steps to bring out of the JW Organization the
SECOND group of faithful ones, ones He wishes to save from
the wicked clutches of the WTS. (2) These are no less the "Two
Witnesses" of Revelation 11:3. JWs who are for "reform".
A reform movement within the Jehovah's Witnesses itself, comprised
of individual member Jehovah's Witnesses who will push for
change and repentance (even if it means disfellowshipment)
upon the JW organization's part, (such as we see in the silent
lambs movement). These ones will gain a strong following amongs
JWs, but will in the end have to leave the organization because
of the entrenched wickedness of the WTS and majority followers,
who eventually end up in destruction following the WTS/G.B.
Revelation 11th chapter shows, God uses these small band of
reformers, the "Two Witnesses", in the most incredible
way to His own glory and praise, and after leaving the WTS,
on to greater "glory" for His Namesake to the world
in general, Revelation 11:7-13 indicates. I hope this helps.......bjc2read@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
13:20:21
Comments
PS: SLC and interested ones: "The Report" comes
in three volumes. So its quite a bit of written material in
it. Volumes II and III are still non published works, released
to only a few individuals of "confidence". But Volume
I is available from the publisher, emcpublications@yahoo.com
to all who are interested.**************EMC Publications,
PO Box 230445, Montgomery, Ala. 36123*********** Also I forgot
to say, information on the "Great Name Campaign" of
October 1931 can be found in the "Jehovah's Witnesses
in the Divine Purpose" book, on page 126. A special publication "The
hope of the world is God's kingdom, and there is no other
hope" was released at that time, which included the text
of Brother Rutherford's talk on the New Name, and the contents
of the special "name resolution" which was unanimously
adopted by all Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide at conventions
around the world. These assemblies started in the summer of
1931 (Columbus, Ohio) and went on to some 50 additional assembly
sites around the world. Afterwhich, the Great "Name campaign" began
in October of 1931 where everyone possible was given "notice" of
this happening. *********bjc
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
13:26:37
Comments
to 12:50:47 Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. I don't like JW's
either but come on thats the biggest bunch of twisted words
I've ever seen! It gave me a worse headache than trying to
understand some of the witness teachings. I think you need
to tell the author of this work to find another job or perhaps
become a fiction writer. Lets talk about helping the children
instead of more twisted prophecy.........Please?
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
14:00:37
Comments
I'll say it again…… This site is nothing
but a JW bashing party. If you want me to refrain from asking
questions about doctrine to keep me and maybe one or two that
have exposed this site for what it is, then I would ask that
you stick to what the purpose of this site pretends to be,
to help innocent children. I GUARANTEE there would be nothing
else for you to talk about. So take your JW bashing to another
one of your favorite sites and leave this site for the 3 people
that will be left. Lets see how you apply scripture to that
one. Also, In case you and all your friends don't know,
the posts on this site are typical of angry, hurt, confused,
insecure, bitter people who typically knock other to build
themselves up. I do not get the impression that they are from
genuinely abused people. If so, why aren't they on Dateline?
The posts engage in name calling, slanderous accusations with
ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of evidence (i.e. “my whole family
was abused by an elder (gimme a break, did you call the police?)),
etc. However, I will say this: I honestly and with all my
heart hope that some of you have a change of heart. Remove
the hate that clouds your judgement, and if you wont return
to Jah, at the very least do something worthwhile for children
that are hurt not only by those who calim to be JW's,
but across the board. Set up a site for abused children period!
I'll tell you what, though, I wont be holding my breath
for that one.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
14:40:05
Comments
To the JW defender: This actually is a site for abused children.
Yes, some seemingly unrelated topics work their way in now
and then. But the root of the issue seems intrinsically related
to the structure and administration of the WTS. The issue
is not about a few predatory, ham-handed wolves in sheep's
clothing. It is not about a case, or a few cases that can
be attributed to some bad apple(s). The issue is about the
Society's handling of the situation. The issue is about what
further steps are taken, who is notified, who is protected
and supported, who is reported to the police - according to
actual WTS policies and procedures. The issue revolves around
where the rules originate, how they are disseminated, what
happens to those that fail to follow the man-made directives.
You are correct that if the topic was limited to people reporting
that 'Brother Roman Fingers groped me and the family pets'
then the forum would be short. It may feel off-topic to you
when someone belabors a point about the fact that C.T. Russel
used to sell Miracle Wheat, or that Rutherford and Franz built
a mansion in the 20's to welcome the resurrected princes (David,
Ezekial, Moses, and their buddies) back to earth. (By the
way, he was probably just watching the place, but Rutherford
lived in the mansion). But it is quite relevant in this context
- it speaks to the self-directed, man-made nature of the organization.
You do yourself a disservice by failing to see that the issue
is with the organization from its core out to the congregations.
- Buster
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:08:45
Comments
This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing
party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes
this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter
people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be
like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you
think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8
This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying
to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted
by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting
life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity,
without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust
in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is
a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures
tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken
away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave
us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing
pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it
maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:51
Comments
WHERE DO WE GO???.....We go to Jehovah and no one else! We
petition the High Priest Jesus and no one else. We go to the
Bible for God's word and no one else.*******to teach some
truth does not give anyone the "right" to lie about
other truths.********** A man who supports his family and
does one thing right does not give him the right or permission
to abuse the same family he supports.***********To give some
truth about God and lie about the rest is to lead people into
temptation and destruction just the same. To offer half truth
is to offer chaos and confusion. One half against the other,
a house divided destroys itself. c.e.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:53
Comments
This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing
party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes
this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter
people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be
like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you
think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8
This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying
to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted
by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting
life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity,
without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust
in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is
a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures
tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken
away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave
us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing
pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it
maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:29:35
Comments
Thanks LORIS for your comments containing Emeregency Room.
I wrote something similiar but it is lost in cyberspace but
yours was more eloquent anyway. Just one more thought for
the JW defenders and I am one (for the past 35 yrs)...PEDOPHILIA
IS NOT A WEAKNESS...NOT JUST A SIN)...NOT A MISTAKE...IT IS
AN EVIL COMMITTED AGAINST CHILDREN..AN EVIL CHOICE TO BE EXACT.
JW's have no problem judging other religions and people as
evil, wicked, etc. but they have a hard time applying it to
one of their own. Fine works and scriptural teachings have
nothing to do with this cover-up. There are millions of good
people who faithfully practive the teachings of JW's BUT there
are thousands who are harming our children with the sanction
of the GB. If the statistics are correct, there are pedophiles
in almost every congregation. Although, you would like to
believe that ALL of them are disfellowshipped, the facts show
that most are not. You can talk about forgiveness and repentance
till Armageddon but it does not apply to pedophiles. The vast
majority do not change...they don't repent...until they are
caught. WHEN DO YOU FIND OUT IF THEY AREN'T CURED AND REPENTANT?...ONLY
WHEN THEY MOLEST ANOTHER CHILD...MAYBE YOUR CHILD...THEN HOW
FORGIVING WILL YOU BE? JW's want to believe that learning
the Bible will change all kinds of wicked people...and in
many cases it does...but not with pedophiles. WHY HAVEN'T
WE HEARD FROM ANY PEDOPHILES WHO HAVE CHANGED? IF THERE ARE
SOME IN THE WTS..WOULDN'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE WRITTEN
ABOUT IT HERE. Some people are just born evil and it doesn't
matter what you do to help them, they are not going to change.
Respectfully, jazbug55
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:47:28
Comments
Buster, Loris, SLC, XYZ, 123, ETC, – Once again, since
you're in denial, you've converted this site into
a bash-for-all. Now why can't YOU all admit something
that is proven time and time again on this site? Buster – You
say unrelated topics work their way in now and then? C'mon!
Buster - You think you answered the question by saying God
did not use these men. I hope you're better at reading
the bible than reading my posts. Stick to what your stated
mission is, don't confuse people that drop in and see
messages of hate, of pyramids, of NGO, etc. And if you veer
off topic and use scripture, describe what the original fulfillment
was, what the greater fulfillment will be, and how we can
learn from it. Of course, you will need the WT materials to
help you do that, other religions will stray you far, far
away from a clear understanding. I was talking about angry,
hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people who have a BEEF with
the WT for reasons such as hate, pride, and hate. I'd
like to ask those people, do you still preach? Did Jesus give
a reason to stop preaching? Do you often talk about paradise?
Do you teach others about biblical truths? Are you in a congregation?
I trust you all know that Christians are supposed to congregate
according to scripture. What is the name of your congregation?
Are any of you elders in your new congregation? Who is your
PO? Where do you worship? How do you handle judicial matters?
Oh, oh wait, all you do is post here on this site. I'll
leave you in your emergency room. I don't see any qualified
doctors.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:02:24
Comments
Dear Brother Bowen: I am so sorry they disfellowshipped you.
I too am disfellowshipped for committing fornication with
an elder. Is it still all my fault if I am 18 and he is 48.
And he got public reproof. Even though I was of age I still
feel like a victim of a pedophile anyway thank you for being
a voice to stand up and help so many. Love unconditionally
Vanessa
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:06
Comments
Help, Help, Help!!!! My brother in Barcelona Spain has been
asking lots of questions, and wants to read the August Kingdom
Ministry that comments on treatment of df'd family members.
Does anyone know where I can find it online? He wants to see
if himself. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:11
Comments
Help, Help, Help!!!! My brother in Barcelona Spain has been
asking lots of questions, and wants to read the August Kingdom
Ministry that comments on treatment of df'd family members.
Does anyone know where I can find it online? He wants to see
if himself. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:13
Comments
Defender: Careful, you're gonna hurt someone's feelings. It
is curious how you dismiss discussions of your religion's
origins, it's basic tenets, and its dealings with it's members
with such ease. You get right to the indoctrinated Witness
speak that fills people with so much "hate, fear, and
hate." Perhaps you don't see it this way, but in general
Witnesses don't know the bible very well. They approach it
as they were taught: as a cosmic game of Scrabble a piece
here and a piece there to be assembled as a belief. It is
true that they can quote from any number of sriptures and
augment it with any amount of WTS commentary that had been
burned in by five meetings per week. But do they ever sit
and try to get a grasp of what the New Testament is about?
What was Paul trying to get across when he wrote his second
letter to the Corinthians. What were Paul's concepts of community?
Not in my experience. This leaves the majority of JWs vulnerable
to interpretations forced on them by an organization intent
on its own protection. If the JWs spent more time looking
at a bigger picture of the scriptures they would be more driven
by the overall gist and less by someone else's interpretation
of some snippet of a verse. I think that JWs (and most are
quite sincere) would then take up their responsibility to
understand what is required of them. They would be in a position
to realize that (here we get back to the point) it is not
reasonable to expect two witnesses to see a child molestation
before you can do something. It is not scriptural to beat
a three-year-old half senseless because he can't sit through
the second meeting (regardless of how many people give you
the 'spare the rod' snippet). They would have enough to realize
that their interpretation is wrong and that they should look
further. I ahve a dream ... - Buster
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:02:34
Comments
who's this brain dead jw defender who posted 00:45:39 aug
07 you want to talk about fornication what does the bible
say about fornication with the word of the real creator rev.
22:19 deut.5:11 etc. the nwt is a real piece of work.adultry?
have sex with another brother wife ,rape 5 10 kids sorry kids
brother molest-alot puts in more time than you besides we
just made him an elder he was apointed by the holy sprit.
you need to go out in the service with him wear clean panties
he.s your shepard mt.18:1-6 slander what wt zombies like you
say to change the subject and try to justify yourselves everytime
your busted in an other of the wt snowball of lies.see awake
5-22-90- pg. 12-13 fallacies in arguemention it's amazing
the balls the wt had in printing what deceptive tacticts they
teach thier members to use to make them right. read that awake
100 times look in the mirror each time I BET YOUR SO BLIND
YOU DON,T SEE IT cause your a ZOMBIE!!!!!!......loose conduct
what do you call going door to door decieving people into
a study in what ever book the wt is trying to clear out of
thier inventory even if it contains old light and crap you
never truly looked up wt books are so bad every verse is twisted
when wt talks about themself always using jehovah,s name to
glorify themselves. i,ve looked up all about earthquakes wars,famine,1914pestilances,etc.
the wt is LYING everytime as well as contadicting them selves.over
and over . apostasy what gospel is the wt teaching gal 1:1-10
wt gospel is to summit to wt not to jesus jn. 6:66-69 14:6
5:39-40 etc. jw,s are under the yoke of wt they have no freedom
in christ gal 5 1-7 2:4-5 5:45 etc. etc.etc. FAILED PROPHETS
/////?????THATS A WT SPECIALTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHAT HAPPENED
WHEN NANHAN TOLD DAVID TO BUILD THE TEMPLE THE SAME NIGHT
GOD TOLD HIM HE WAS WRONG NOT TO BUILD THE TEMPLE .WHAT HAPPENED
WHEN THE PROPHET SAID JERUSLEM WOULD BE SPARED JEREMIAH SAID
HE DIDN,T HAVE GOD HE DIED IN 2 YRS AS YEHWAH TOLD JEREMIAH
WHEN THE DISCIPLES THOUGH THE END WAS NOW JESUS STRAIGHTEN
THEM OUT RIGHT AWAY. NOT 80 YRS. LATER WHO is the fds when
jesus returns every eye will see him do i need to look up
that verse toooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! you gotta love every time
the wt calls some old wt book bible truth or some covention
forefullment of bible prophecy funny jw,s jump for joy when
i talk about about this proper food at the proper time until
i open the old books the 2002 wt calls the truth , funny how
faces turn to stone . when they don,t want to hear the wt
is lying to them now i,m an apostate and i printed this food
from the angels go ahead all you wt defenders your either
to dum or blinded by your jehovah you worship in brooklyn
to see the light when you come to jesus and only him and his
father and ask the holy spirit to lead you not bklyn then
preach to others lu 11:10-13 NO WT ZOMBIE CAN LAST 30 MINUTES
WITH THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE AND THE TEACHING OF THE WATCHTOWER
BRCAUSE FOOLS OF THE WT. CAN,T EXCEPT THE FACTS THEY BEEN
LIED TOO TRUTH BOOK PG.13 J-CHITO@MSN.COM BRONX NY 19173710332
GOT MY NAME AND PHONE DON,T YOU THINK YOU CAN LAST 10 MIN.
WITH ME I,VE NEVER BEEN A JW HA HA HA NOW YOW WANT TO TALK
ABOUT 2 WITNESSES AND CHILD RAPIST HAVE I GOT A MILSTONE FOR
YOU GIVE IT YOUR BEST ZOMBIE TRY.. IT WILL BE ME TELLING JESUS
I FOLLOWED BKLYN....
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:33
Comments
Its gettin' spicy now
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:12:38
Comments
j_chito I WANTED TO SAY IT WILL,NT BE ME SAYING TO JESUS I
FOLLOWED BKLYN. LOVE TO ALL IN CHRIST JOHN
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:29:10
Comments
JW Defender: . . . . .Did Jesus form the christian congregation
first or condemn the Pharissee's first? I'm not sure, but
I'll be glad to discuss it with you at www.jehovahs-witness.com.
. . . . . . . .I would like to see less posts from "The
Report" etc, just email each other, please
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:33:41
Comments
I SEE ALL THE WT ZOMBIES HAVE NOT TRYED TO QUESTION ANY OF
MY POSTS J-CHITO@man.com because a simple review of the bible
and the wt teachings prove they are a false christ to any
interested jw,s in the bronx or lower westchester who truly
want to know about the watchtower don,t be shy i know a kingdom
hall that has a excelent library and can show you thousands
of watchtower lies .if thwy have not cleared the shelves since
the last time i,ve been there john tel. 19173710332
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:58:37
Comments
who is this jw jackass aug 7 14:0037 come on zombie read 5
22 90 pg 12 13 for you maybe TEN THOUSAND TIMES hope your
mirror don,t crack cause i wouldnot be in your shoes on judgment
day never heard you say followers of christ think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you
are condemened by your words you have no knowledge why jesus
died onj the cross tyhats right on the cross there.s not one
jw that can prove different with out half
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:07:41
Comments
who is this jw jackass aug 7 14:0037 come on zombie read 5
22 90 pg 12 13 for you maybe TEN THOUSAND TIMES hope your
mirror don,t crack cause i wouldnot be in your shoes on judgment
day never heard you say followers of christ think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you
are condemened by your words you have no knowledge why jesus
died onj the cross tyhats right on the cross there.s not one
jw that can prove different with out half quotes or wt garbage
i did my HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!!!!! in 30 yrs i have not found one
wt zombie who has done the research i have there is no jw
flunky that can truely go to the public library or the bible
to realisticly back up the wt fallacy. john tel 19173710332
call me and bare false witness in the name of the true creator.
freedom in christ to all
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:05
Comments
I think your web site is very needed, and I check it every
couple of days for updates. I fully support the Silentlambs
march, and I hope it is still on... and hopefully even more
thunderously since Bill,s disfellowshipping; because now,
there is injustice upon injustice upon injustice!!! We know,
do we not, that Jehovah HATES injustice?!! He himself WILL
bring the organization into account for it... Just you mark
those words!!! I want so much to march with all fo you, but
my circumstances will not allow it at present. However, I
will be watching the media coverage of it with my FULL support,
and Jehovah's, rest assured. My love for all you who love
justice and righteousness, JMD. (see Prov.21:3; 28:5; 29:7
NWT )
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:29
Comments
I am so happy that your site exists... I have left the WTS
4 years ago mainly because I have discovered the thruth about
the WTS on the internet. But now the child molestation cases
is really something that makes me react.Thank's again for
letting us know what's happening on a regular basis. My daughter
is married to an elder and I dont miss a chance to let them
know the real situation about the WTS and child molestation
situation ...Thanks to you again ! J-P. (jpbourassa.@sympatico.ca)
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:53
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:01
Comments
I think your web site is very needed, and I check it every
couple of days for updates. I fully support the Silentlambs
march, and I hope it is still on... and hopefully even more
thunderously since Bill,s disfellowshipping; because now,
there is injustice upon injustice upon injustice!!! We know,
do we not, that Jehovah HATES injustice?!! He himself WILL
bring the organization into account for it... Just you mark
those words!!! I want so much to march with all of you, but
my circumstances will not allow it at present. However, I
will be watching the media coverage of it with my FULL support,
and Jehovah's, rest assured. My love for all you who love
justice and righteousness, JMD. (see Prov.21:3; 28:5; 29:7
NWT )
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:46
Comments
*****the mole***********Time has it where talks now are on
gossip and the love of children. The ears of the weak are
now being bent to hear the glory of the Society. Many of us
have waited but none have come to address a real answer, for
week i have sat and tried to read between the lines but no
direct mention of any wrongdoing has been mentioned and will
not be in the future. My friends and those of us with the
same inclination have gathered silently and inquired over
dinner the thoughts and ideas of NBC this past weekend. Whether
the Organization wants to admit it or not, it was bad PR for
them, and not addressing the issue has made it worse. The
kindness of Jesus Christ seems so missing in our hall, any
warmth of friendship seems to be replaced by a cold orgaizational
approach that assumes the worst, gives no benfit of doubt,
and viewed with forbearance patience as a weakness. Inimical
to the intersts of the organization it has only one goal:
uniformity and conformity. With its massive legal machine
being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling,
unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone
who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold. I find it hard to
believe in some ways but my experience being involved with
the religion since birth often negates that idea to defend
the organization. I can think of nothing that would be more
helpful to all of Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere to enable
them to have a balanced, not a one-sided, view of what took
place, the climate that prevails, these so called men connected
to god to be so cold as to really think silencing members
who cry out in pain, Reformation is the key and it begins
from the inside out.......*******the mole***************
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:42:56
Comments
Nevermind y'all...I found the KM I was looking for. Linda
Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:43:02
Comments
Nevermind y'all...I found the KM I was looking for. Linda
Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
19:12:47
Comments
////*Hello, I am sending exerts from the media of statements
made from a ‘spokesman' of the Jehovah Witnesses.
The reason that I am sending this is to show that THE WT ORGANIZATION
admit to knowingly allowing ‘known' pedophiles
to minister door to door to the public, to us, to your family,
friends, and neighbors! To knowingly allow a pedophile to
go door-to-door and minister is potentially putting people
and their children in danger. This has to be against the law!
Isn't it? Please put a stop to this! The organization
has admitted to having files on child molesters. They have
admitted ‘internally investigating' accusations,
how can they do this without the proper training?//// Louisville
Courier-Journal, 1-4-01 J.R. Brown, director of public affairs
for the Jehovah's Witnesses, Brown said PEDOPHILES are restricted
from working with minors and must also be with a well-respected
church member when they GO DOOR TO DOOR. PEDOPHILES also might
not be SENT into neighborhoods where they might be recognized
as molesters, Brown said. /////*But they are still sent to
neighborhoods!///// Paducah Sun 2-12-01 Tennessean/ Nashville…………….
Abuse charges put Witness at risk of shunning /////*They have
kicked out the witnesses who are trying to help the victims!
The ones trying to make this public in order to help us all!/////
Saturday, 05/11/02 People in the organization who are accused
of sex abuse are subject to a hearing like the one Anderson
attended yesterday, Brown said. They are automatically removed
from leadership positions and can't go door-to-door without
other members' being present. *It is not usual that a door-to-door
minister goes alone anyway, because of bible teaching. Anyway
who really cares is a sexual abuser is with someone or not,
they are still going door-to-door ministering whether they
are with another or not makes no difference, they are still
going with the Organizations blessings! /////* Comments in
italic are my comments and not statements made to the media,
which I am aware of. Since the guest book doesn't seem to
do the italic thing, I will put my statements between the
lines. (Loris, did you do some checking then?, since you posted
your message I am thinking that you got some positive response.
Not sure about publicly jumping off the fence post, you know
what I mean, but I guess the cats out of the bag now!, very
mixed feelings, always heard 'in for a penny, in for a pound'
so... here's to pounds! :-) As Loris knows from our phone
conversation, I spoke to a police officer in my community
and asked him two questions...1. Is it legal for an organization
of any kind, to allow 'known' pedophiles to go to people's
homes i.e.: to sell, teach, do work, etc... He answered NO
IT IS NOT LEGAL. 2. I asked, if an organization has made statements
to the media stating that they do allow and send 'known pedophiles'
to peoples homes, is that a public admission of guilt? He
said YES. So, as you look at just the few statements above,
not only do they admit in the media that they allow 'known
pedophiles' to go door to door to minister, they also ADMIT
IN THE MEDIA THAT 'THEY MAY NOT SEND THEM TO NEIGHBORHOODS
THAT MAY KNOW THEM AS THE PERVERTS THAT THEY ARE!!!! THAT
IS A TELLING STATEMENT AND MAKES ME WANT TO... CRY :-( WHO
ARE THEY TO MINISTER TO ANYONE, SENDING PEDOPHILES OUT INTO
THE WORLD IN THE GUISE OF TEACHING THE TRUTH! WT, I TRUSTED
YOU; I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT I FAILED YOU! AND I THOUGHT, BY
DOING THAT I FAILED MY FATHER! FOR YEARS I LIVED FEELING LIKE
I WAS NOT WORTHY! SHAME ON YOU, YOU STUPID STUPID MEN! SHAME
SHAME SHAME!!!! I WILL NOT CRY, WELL, YES I WILL, I WILL ....
IT'S WHO I AM. I AM ME, I AM WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ME TO BE,
I MAY NOT LIKE WHAT I DO SOMETIMES, OR WHERE I AM AT IN LIFE……… SOMETIMES,
BUT, I KNOW THAT THE FATHER LOVES ME AND THAT JESUS LOVES
ME AND NO LONGER WILL YOU, WT, MAKE ME FEEL UNWORTHY OF STUPID
STUPID MEN!////// lol guess my dander is up. I got my birds
to bed; I'm going to go too! FYI, never turn a ‘almost
completely empty' bottle of steak sauce upside down
so that you can get the last drops!, IF you do, and open it
while it is still upside down, it'll explode all over
you and your kitchen!!!!!!!! Of course I am sure that a lot
of people will have to wait to read it in a wt before believing
it!, THAT is not bashing, IT'S BEING SARCASTIC!! It looks
as though there is another here that likes to also be sarcastic!
bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
19:21:27
Comments
REGARDING the the comment from the mole ----replaced by a
cold orgaizational approach that assumes the worst, gives
no benfit of doubt, and viewed with forbearance patience as
a weakness. Inimical to the intersts of the organization it
has only one goal: uniformity and conformity. With its massive
legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in
an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective,
to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold.
//// As I read this I could almost imagine that you were speaking
of Hitler and his followers! New System of things, New world
order, New world order, New world translation, hummmmmm? something
just isn't right about that, bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
20:14:41
Comments
Poor Defender. It is so sad that you feel bashed. Sometimes
looking at things like your systems values just reminds me
of how I need to be careful, to be vigilant in Christ's
message with me, and others. Why do you wish to debate issues
that have no substance? Why do you wish to waste your time?
Why do you wish to waste my time? Are you trying to convolute
the issues of physical (and spiritual) rape and abuse that
is the forum here? (As for dogma) Has your religion ever believed
something that turned out not to be true? If so then cut other
religions some slack. According to the Sociologist “Stark” one
should not comment on other religions unless they have been
with them for some time and if you leave a sect then you must
be disgruntled, and should be dismissed if you comment on
your former faith. Does that only apply to your sect? Do you
go to say the “Catholics” and attend church and
get their point of view? (Before bashing them and the rest
of the world) If not then cut some slack as you and other
witnesses ask for.-Sequia
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
22:05:41
Comments
Moles Quote: . . .its massive legal machine being put into
motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way
toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks
out and doesnt fit their mold .. . . It's just a Good Quote
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
22:21:15
Comments
John: I think you have peoples' attention - mine anyway. Send
a little background. I'm curious that for someone who has
never been a Witness (1) how/why have you done the reseach
you have, and (2) where you got the facility with the lingo
- stuff like 'he puts in more time than you'. I also like
reading the delicate way you have of making your point. -
Buster
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:46
Comments
Geez, all I asked for was a straight answer, never got one.
What I did get was a lot of name calling. Since you all wont
establish what your stance is on the TRUTH with simple answers
to my simple questions, then there is no point to continue.
Also, I see some are impressed with someone who believes Jesus
died on a cross. Name calling, pagan beliefs, hate, no wonder
this site is rarely visited by true Christians. Think about
it. How much love is in here? Post something constructive
for once. For those abused lambs, show them how they can heal
with prayer and counsel. Do a search on those shiny WT cd's
you didn't contribute anything for, and being a healing
process for them. I wont hold my breath for that one either.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
23:46:02
Comments
Geez..You just don't get it and did not answer why. As for
name calling was that not your game? Proof has been provided
that the coverups of rape and molestation and abuse is fact
in the rank and orders of the JW's (Read the newspapers and
its on this site) and elders turn a blind eye or intentionaly
silence people with threats and intimidation all the works
of evil and you want to debate the value of the trinity. Don't
you dare try to be a victim grow up!-SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
00:11:46
Comments
hate to say this, but i agree with jw, too much bashing going
on
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
00:22:19
Comments
SEQ – You are all over the place again. Establish what
your current beliefs so people can determine whether or not
your comments are worthwhile. Since you wont console the silentlambs
this site was created for, if you're going to comment
on the history of the WT, let people know where you stand
today as a Christian. I don't expect you to debate trinity
because you don't believe in it. But keep talking about
what you don't believe in and you will lose a LOT of
ears here. Stand up for your beliefs, like JW's do.
Again, I wont hold my breath for a straight answer, I'll
get stuff about pyramids, intimidation, etc.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:39:49
Comments
JW defender asked SLC: "Can you shed some light on how
those sins are handled in your new org, whatever it is at
this point?" ----- Answer: (a) Who ever said I joined
ANOTHER ORG? (FYI: I am "org'd up to my gourd" for
now.) Besides, who needs an ORG anyway (Opportunistic Religious
Group)? See Mat. 18:20. (b) Read this over and over until
it sinks in: Luke 6:37. ----- Then you asked, "How do
[I] feel about adultery? Fornication?" Answer: See Rev.
21:8 for starters (and many others, which you are already
well aware). ----- Then you state, "I'm sure the
Catholic, Protestant, and Baptist crowd here is eager to see
how you interpret God's law, and how it applies to those
that break it." ----- Answer: Are there Catholics/Protestants/Baptists,
etc. here? I didn't know that! I thought this was a JW site!
You must have the "gift" of ESP (Extra Senile Presumptuousness).
But, OK, I'll play along: If there ARE any Catholics/Protestants/Baptists
reading this and committing fornication and/or adultery, please
see 1 Cor. 4:4,5; 2 Tim.3:16; 1 Cor. 11:32; Heb. 12:6-24 (and,
btw, notice WHO is doing the disciplining), and to top it
off, Heb. 12:25: "See that you do NOT beg off from HIM
WHO IS SPEAKING... Him who speaks FROM THE HEAVENS..." and
Rev. 3:19 (again, notice WHO IT IS doing the reproving and
disciplining). ----- Let me ask YOU a question, JW-D: What
are you feeling so feisty about anyway? Have you been bitten
by the Ministerial Serpent? Helpful Tip: Stop-Look-Listen!
Sounds to me like you are thrashing about "directing
your blows/striking into thin air" (1 Cor. 9:26). Chill!
----- You continued: " Give me a BREAK already with the
talk about failed bible predictions ...Some prophets were
even mistaken in their predictions. What would you say to
them?” ----- Answer: How many erroneous predictions
were made by prophets in the scriptures? Let's do a comparison:
You can fill in this blank: The prophet(s) in the Bible made
______ wrong predictions. However, just as a sampling, the
WTS made 12 predictions that I know of, which did not come
true: 'Ever since the very beginning in the 1870s, the WTS
for about 55 years (1876-1931) persistently taught that Christ
had arrived invisibly in 1874... then they taught that the "remnant" of
Christ's church would be changed (1 Thess. 4:17), first in
1878, then in 1881, then in 1914, then in 1915, then in 1925...
then they taught that the end of the present system of things
would come in 1914, then in 1918-20, then in 1925, then in
1941-42, and again in 1975, and again by 2000... " Shall
I continue? Thanks to http://www.607v587.com/ for that documentation,
but if you need more, please go to http://users.rcn.com/jjrizo/thelist.doc
for 247 PAGES of Failed Watchtower Predictions.) ----- You
continued further: "I'll say it again, no matter
how many verses you quote, no matter how flowery the language
you use, no matter how many quotes from 1901 you use, this
site amounts to a JW bashing party." ----- Correction:
Not a JW bashing party, but a FDS/GB/WTS bashing party <adding
music, everyone join in and sing together now> "It's
My Party and I'll Bash If I Want To, Bash If I Want To! You
Would Bash Too If It Happened To You!" ----- JW Defender
continued: "How often has a child abuse victim benefited
from your inane observations?" ----- Answer: For your
information, WE (now adult) child abuse victims/survivors
are benefiting WONDERFULLY from each other's company here,
and enjoying ourselves immensely, I might add. Again, I ask:
What is YOUR problem, anyway? Are you feeling left out of
the party? There are either of TWO "rules" for joining
THIS party: (a) You ADVOCATE for Silent Lambs because you
are a GOOD person who can SEE THRU the society's hypocrisy;
OR (b) You or any of your children or family can become a
sex abuse victim themselves by letting the congregation pedophile
babysit them, go out in service with them, run into them in
the KH bathroom, parking lot, etc. ----- JW Defender continued: "Oh,
before I forget, when you reply, please include your view
on the Trinity." ----- Answer: Trinity: Definition: Two
JW-pedophiles going door-to-door. When they meet up with the
little unsuspecting child at the door, that makes a threesome
(a/k/a trinity, 3-in-1). Why are you even asking about the
Trinity anyway? Who cares about the trinity doctrine? You're
way out in space somewhere, imo. ----- JW Defender asked more
questions: "Also, tell us who is the Faithful and Discreet
slave, since you know so much." ----- Simple Answer:
The one whom the Master, UPON HIS ARRIVAL, FINDS HIM DOING
SO. (Luke 12:43-53, and notice the "division" in
the "house" of the believers at this time also.) "Let
the Reader Use Discernment!" (Mark 13:14) ----- Sigh & Yawn,
as JWD continues still further: "Since you're so
versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why
you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh
so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses
are necessary." ----- Should I really have to even remind
you to use your own brain-power here? (Sorry, I forgot you
didn't have any. OK, out of COMPASSION I'll explain it to
you.) (Btw, DO feel free to give your OWN detailed explanation
of why you DO think Jesus & Jehovah would even EXPECT
such a thing in child rape cases. Are their hearts as Pharisaically-crusted-over
as yours is?) Better yet, K.I.S.S. this scriptural admonition
(Keep It Simple Stupid): "LET YOUR REASONABLENESS BECOME
KNOWN TO ALL MEN." (Php. 4:5) How REASONABLE is it to
EXPECT a rapist to invite "two or three witnesses" to
the event? Deut. 19:15 and Mt. 18:16. How REASONBLE do YOU
and the GB look to ALL MEN on this matter? Additionally, read
the CONTEXT of Mat. 18:16! For pete's sake, fella (or lady),
what Jesus was talking about there was NOT CHILD RAPE & MOLESTATION,
but as the heading at the top of the page says in the NWT
Reference Bible, it is concerning "SETTLING FAULTS" & NOT
GROSS CRIMES. AND, if you INSIST on applying Mat. 18:16 to
child rape/molestation where there were only TWO witnesses
(the child and the rapist), then why do you not also APPLY
VERSE 17 and get the ENTIRE CONGREGATION INVOLVED IN THE CONFRONTING
OF THE PERVERT? Please DO advise at your earliest opportunity
why, when the pervert denies what he has done to the elders
in the back room, why don't the elders march him out in front
of the entire congregation and present the Perv and the abused
child and their testimony to the ENTIRE CONGREGATION as verse
17 says to do???! And then let the congregation as a whole
have a GO at their pervert "brother." TELL US WHY
THAT is NOT DONE per Mat. 18:16,17?? Additionally, what did
Jehovah do with your cowardly, MISapplied "two witness" rule
anyway? Read Jehovah's Lips: "He... BLOTTED OUT the handwritten
document against us, which CONSISTED OF DECREES and which
was IN OPPOSITION TO US; and He has TAKEN IT OUT OF THE WAY
by NAILING IT to the torture stake." (Col. 2:14) What
did He leave us instead? "THE KINGLY LAW." (James
2:8--and read verse 9 also!). Still not enough? What did Jesus
say about the scribes and Pharisees who NIT-PICKED him to
pieces about their "handwritten document" (Mosaic
Law/Rules/Regs) re: David's men eating the showbread, or the
sheep who fell into the pit on the Sabbath, etc. etc.? (Mt.
12:1-14). Read all of Mat. Chapter 23, too: "They bind
up HEAVY LOADS and put them upon the shoulders of men (AND
Abused Women and Children)." (vs. 4) --- "They BROADEN
the SCRIPTURE-CONTAINING CASES that they WEAR AS SAFEGUARDS." (vs.5)
(Perfect example is the WT "Broadening" the two-witness
rule completely OUT of proportion in order to attempt to COVER
THEIR A*****). --- "Blind Guides, who STRAIN OUT THE
GNAT but GULP DOWN THE CAMEL." (vs.24) (i.e., Who strain
OUT the abused child but GULP DOWN the Perverts.) --- "...You
have DISREGARDED the WEIGHTIER MATTERS of the Law, namely,
JUSTICE and MERCY and FAITHFULNESS." (vs.23) (i.e., No
Justice, Mercy or Faithfulness shown to the abuse victims,
but let's go testify in court on behalf of the Pedophile for
ALL THE WORLD TO SEE! Talk about Disregarding the Weightier
Matters!) --- "They [GB] LIKE... to be called Rabbi [NWT
Reference Bible Footnote for Rabbi: "MY GREAT EXCELLENT
ONE"] by men." (vs. 6,7) --- "Neither be called
[GB] LEADERS, for your Leader is ONE, THE CHRIST." [Note:
NOT the GB but THE CHRIST!] ( vs. 10) --- "WOE to you
scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you TRAVERSE THE
SEA & DRY LAND TO MAKE ONE [JW] PROSELYTE, and when he
BECOMES ONE, you make him a subject for GEHENNA TWICE AS MUCH
as yourselves." (vs.15) --- "WOE TO YOU, scribes
and [WTS] Pharisees, hypocrites! because you CLEANSE the OUTSIDE
of [the Org via your PR Dept.] but INSIDE [you] are FULL of
PLUNDER and IMMODERATENESS." (vs.25) --- "... whitewashed
graves... In that way YOU ALSO, OUTWARDLY INDEED APPEAR RIGHTEOUS
TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU are FULL of HYPOCRISY and LAWLESSNESS." (vs.27,28)
Key word: LAWLESSNESS [i.e. CRIMINAL ACTIVITY] --- "...You
are BEARING WITNESS AGAINST YOURSELVES that YOU are the sons
of those who MURDERED the PROPHETS (by DF'ing the Silent Lambs
Whistleblowers)." (vs.31) --- "SERPENTS! OFFSPRING
OF VIPERS... FOR THIS REASON I am sending forth to you PROPHETS
[abuse victims who tried to speak up] and WISE MEN [elders
who tried to speak up] and PUBLIC INSTRUCTORS [Silent Lambs
and the MEDIA]. SOME OF THEM YOU WILL KILL [deny] and IMPALE
[publicly deny], and some of them you will SCOURGE [shun]
in YOUR [KH] SYNAGOGUES and PERSECUTE [DF] from CITY TO CITY..." (vs.
33-36) --- "Jerusalem, Jerusalem [WTS, WTS], the KILLER
of the [SL] PROPHETS and the STONER of THOSE [SL Advocates]
SENT FORTH TO HER [you]... How OFTEN I WANTED to GATHER YOUR
[abused] CHILDREN TOGETHER (operative word: CHILDREN!!!!!),
the way a hen gathers HER CHICKS together under her WINGS!
BUT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT WANT IT. LOOK! YOUR HOUSE IS ABANDONED
TO YOU." (vs.37-38). --- That is the MOST ALIVE & POWERFULLY
EXERTING SCRIPTURE YET! Go ahead, deny deny deny!!! --- (BTW,
check out Mt. 12:43-45 - watch out! the demons appear to have
already TAKEN OVER your WT house.) - In other words, USE YOUR
OWN BRAIN and powers of REASON Jehovah gave you and which
your Lord & Master EXPECTS you to USE, rather than nit-picking
the two/three witnesses COP-OUT-RULE and MISapplying it to
CHILD RAPE as a means to DENY IT and COVER IT UP for the sake
of WT "IMAGE." ----- Finally! We come to the end
of JW-D's entreaties. He/she said: "Anyone that says “you
will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth.
Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh?” is a wise
person and should be listened to. lol: ----- Reply & Grand
Finale by SLC: I'm SO pleased to see you DO have a sense of
humor! Open Wide, Insert Foot, and please don't leave your
shoes and socks in the middle of the floor, now, you hear?
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:53:18
Comments
TO JW Defender: I have officially given you a name: SNOT-NOSE,
since you are a typical self-righteous JW. (It takes one to
know one). I continued to act the same way as you, spouting
off all the typical JW self-righteous rhetoric, until a few
months ago when the BRIGHT LIGHT (that keeps getting BRIGHTER & BRIGHTER
about the REAL TRUTH of the WTS) finally would not let me
shut my eyes to it any longer. Snot Nose is using all the
same worn-old lines I used, and I have since seen them all
scripturally and factually refuted (i.e., MUST meet w/congregation,
must be in a building to "worship"! must have elders
handle judicial matters, etc.etc. ad nauseum, ad infinitum,
like a runny snotty nose...). Here's a suggestion Snot Nose:
Get out of this ER, like Loris said, and please go sign up
for this group at msn: Just JWs. It is a true bona-fide JW
group. However, they have a Debate Forum, which you are too "young" to
enter, so whatever you do, do NOT go into their "Debate
Forum," as your SR (Self-Righteousness) will be given
a run for its money, all with monumental scriptural and WT-literature
backing by JWs just like you. /SLC --- BTW: Our "qualified
doctor" is The Great Physician and Healer, Jesus Christ.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:58:50
Comments
I AGREE with whoever said let's slack off on the "debates" here
at SL and take it to J-W.com or elsewhere. I AM DONE w/JW-D.
-- In JW groups, they always say to IGNORE the "apostates." Well,
I say in SL, we should IGNORE JW's such as JW Defender who,
frankly, I can't figure out what his/her problem is. -- Good
night all (great posts everybody, hope to reply to more soon).
Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:00:59
Comments
DID EVERYONE GET A COPY OF B.BOWEN'S EMAIL FROM WED. NIGHT
ABOUT WRITING LETTERS IF YOU ARE STILL A JW???? If anyone
wants more info, let me know and I can zap you a copy of it!
Time is running short, for Sunday 8/11/02. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:16:31
Comments
I have found this web site really interesting,although i am
not a member of this group,i feel concern for all the victims
and their familys who are involved.The more people who come
out into the open to discuss this issue,i'm sure everyone
will benefit in some way,the government bodies should really
step in and sort this problem immediatly.Incest is a taboo,and
should not be allowed to continue,I feel very stong about
this,and thank you for letting me share my thoughts .
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:57:54
Comments
buster it,s john my father joined the wt some 30 yrs. ago
when i was about 12 i was made to go to the hall for a year
or so noone else in my family is a watchtowerite i went to
catholic school till 5th grade always believed in god and
learned the basics there. for years i heard every day i,m
going to be destroyed for not becoming a member . notice i
don,t call wt members jehovah's witnesses .because they are
not . i know all the zombies in co-op city bx i remember 1975
and hering that that wt pitch a 1000 times about the generation
if 1914. and being laughed at for not believing it you know
that stupid wt smirk like they know something you don,t .tell
me another bed time story. i remember my father sick for 2
yrs. in the early 90,s not go to the doctor because the 1914
generation was due to end any day .what a fool he had cancer
had he went to the doctor right away he would be able to use
the toilet today. one day 3 yrs ago my brother and i were
taking my father to task about a wt mag that said how great
it was to quit your job and push watchtowers. we were whipping
him pop said the wt is the TRUTH and all that other crap but
he but he made a mistake he challanged me to do all the research
on the wt i wanted they had nothing to hide. i was amazed
all the new wt,s called the old wt books bible truth so i
went to the hall and read up day after day i would show pop
how they lie about thier past present and future it,s comical
with limited bible knowledge i whipped the whole cong. elders
po,s co,s they called me a demon in the kh library for exposing
a new wt all lies about what was really in those old wt,s
the new wt was glorifying.week after week they made fools
of them selves when you bust them they just stand there with
that stupid smirk on their face. and say you don,t understand
what your reading you need a study. this is so funny right
now i can,t stop laughing.but really it,s sad to see all these
wt ites i know so blind when they go into the field in co-op
city they run from me ever see an 80 year old lady run.you
know i,m a demon? i always stop and blow up their pitch when
i see them talking to someone . the elders told me their going
to take me to court . i said go right ahead i,ll sue you and
the wt for trying to take away my freedom of speech.they didn,t
know what to say they just stood there like ZOMBIES. idrive
a truck in the bronx i stop some times 4 5 times a day and
ask members if the wt mag is inspired by god they half the
time say yes i say them if they truely follow the bible they
say yes after they commit themselves etc. i bust them with
the material their holding in thier hands a few bible verses
all of a sudden the bible has made them liars it,s so easy
i set ,em up like bowling pins when i drop the boom they look
like ZOMBIES> cause they know i caught them in lies . but
at times if i get one alone who,s new they will listen and
i give them tons of wt lies to look up hopeing some will see
the light i love to work on black people with all the beautiful
things the wt has printed about them remember if you pray
hard enough you can become white they love that one. it,s
a shame how little these people know even members for 40 50
yrs. they all idolize the wt not jesus i have never heard
one tell me to come to jesus i know it,s pleasing to god to
expose the wt daily .only the lord of the bible could make
me so effective.so my question is i see on the internet many
who are better versed than i do you do gods will and expose
the wt at every chance i know i do freedom in christ to all
john
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
04:48:45
Comments
i gave a few simple answers as for the truth you can,t be
talking about the teaching of the wt! take your head out of
the sand.it,s one lie after another using the name jehovah
to golrify the wt.just look at all the child rapist the wt
harbors i know a wt pervert in co-op city bx ny his mane is
carl gorlsh iv,e seen him many times touch women talk dirty
to them grab young girls tell how nicely thier developing
talk to women about different sex acts and how they like it.etc
and i got witnesses who knows what he does when no one is
around i.ve seen him giving the wt pitch and touching at the
same time .i know hes gotten complaints. if you live in the
bronx he may be at your door. you want to tell me these are
gods choosen people . i can,t wait till the law raids the
wt office and expose the 23720 molesters then when one of
the rapists from your cong. go to trial you can go to court
and put your hand on the bible stand there like a good wt
zombie and tell the court what a great person he is and how
the god of brooklyn said he,s not guilty don,t worry the wt
lawyers will instruct you how to decieve the jury shun the
raped children then you can walk away knowing your words were
pleasing to jehovah in bklyn.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:02:34
Comments
RE: JW BASHING AND WHAT IT IS ABOUT REALLY....for myself I
have been betrayed by what I thought was Jehovah's organization.
I unknowlingly supported policies,by association with the
WTS, that harmed other christians in the organization. The
WTS acted without love towards the Malawi's, acted without
love towards the ones who have been molested or raped, and/or
physically/emotionally abused and continued to put these ones
in harms way. ************I read Awake magazines that although
a red flag came up, I ignored it - these articles promoted
the UN and then I find out that the WTS belongs to the UN.******************I
would not tolerate this behavior from a family member or a
friend. ******************* It is a bit like finding out your
spouse is a liar, a cheat, and has put you in harm's way.*************You
said it yourself that it is coming from hurt, bitterness and
anger - at myself for being so naive & stupid, and for
having trusted the WTS with my spiritual well-being. And like
having an unfaithful spouse who doesn't care, they continue
to lie or cover-up the problem. And there can be no reconcilation
under those circumstances. This is grievious. *********************
I care very much about the ones who have been harmed by rape
and molestation. This is why I left and why I am here at SL.
This is why I support Bill Bowen's efforts to make public
this travesty.*******the so called bashing is a reaction to
the very things we all once where seduced by to our own detriment
and blindness. A Trust was betrayed - this is a very serious
offense against the human spirit. Jehovah hates a liar. ***********
Everyone here is a lover of Jehovah. From what I read and
know, the ones who post here are actively doing what they
can to help those who have been harmed and to prevent others
from being harmed in the future by this policy the WTS promotes
about two witnesses. **************************** Any person
who comes here who has been harmed is warmly comforted. This
is all that we can do here. It is so little. Someone has to
be here when they come - so we wait.***************************THE
TRUTH is not the exclusive property of the JW's - or the WTS
to do with what they want. Knowledge of the TRUTH does not
give anyone the priviledge to harm, or treat people with contempt.
We are all appalled at what the WTS has done with The Truth
- absolutely appalled. We are appalled at what we ourselves
have done in the past with the Truth - lording over the worldly
people, judging them, pat answers for complexity, having no
interest in others except as a potential sheep is appalling.*********The
bitterness, the sadness, the anger expressed here is an appropriate
safe place to do this. People who have been oppressed have
to find expression.*******WTS/JW's won't let anyone express
a concern without immediately oppressing.******** I had found
the truth and then found out that the deliver of the truth
is a liar and a cheat - well it is heartbreaking, spiritually
devastating and cynical. "Doctrine" is an integral
part of this sham, so it is discussed. WTS is an integral
part of this sham in relationship to "doctrine" so
they are looked at with contempt.**********************To
be lied to, manipulated, uncared for, kept quiet or else,
by the deliverer of truth is crazy-making.****** People are
just plain pissed off. I know I am.******************Jusified
anger isn't ungodly.((((((((((((The WTS by calling themselves
the Faithful and Discreet Slave are suppose to be responsible
and care for the ones they have caused harm to-that is ungodly.)))))))))))))))))))The
WTS has the biggest responsibility to do this and they did
not and will not. If they had - we all wouldn't be here*******************glady.
C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:46:15
Comments
to that big wt defender i,ll tell you what i do to help wt
kids since most of the wt zombies i talk to daily are women
i tell them about all i know about wt and child molesters
then i ask them if they know any i get some looks like some
do if they got enough brains to listen a rare thing, maybe
some will open thier eyes and rat out a wt molester but most
times when i talk about wtmolester court cases and how the
molester gets patted on the back. they stand there like zombies
and tell me i,m lying or try to change the subject and ask
me if i know what the kingdom is . funny how they want thier
mags back after i blow-up thier pitch. the definition of a
member of the wt is one who speaks presumptuously. on the
cross did they not find a cross on the wall with the name
JESUS in that city that was buried by the volcano in 79 A.D.
i know that follower of christ in the 1st. century put that
cross on the wall to persecute the wt. i know jehovah in brooklyn
would approve of that answer.you must need a study.got some
delicious spritual food guaranteed not to give you tomaine
poisoning until the new light of next weeks watchtower. john
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:55:42
Comments
Proof is in the pudding- who is grieving??? The WTS or Silentlambs?
Who wants reconcilation - WTS or Silentlambs? Who is tightening
the control with videos and KM propaganda, intimidating with
threats of DFing? Who calls everyone apostate to shut them
up and puts the fear of God into anyone that listens to them?
Who has been bashing & abusing victims of rape and the
molested and their families for years??? Who teaches that
this is the love? Who cares if Jesus died on a cross or a
stake - the point is he died so we can live. Who cares if
Armageddon comes today or tomorrow or 1,000 years from now-
we just know it will come. Our walk with Christ is our walk
and no one else can walk in our footsteps. Hell does not match
up with God's mercy and love. The trinity makes a mockery
out of "God loved the world so much that he gave his
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON." There is no religion that can save
us. We are to imitate Jesus - period. He loved the poor, the
broken in spirit, the oppressed - that is what we are to do
while we are here and in this way we advertise God's Kingdom.
To give hope and comfort now as a "foreshadow" for
the things to come. *****************to be oppressing people
while preaching the good news is not good advertising for
God's Kingdom.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:09:21
Comments
a great place to start the wt march would be at the #2and
5 subway station at boro hall bklyn. the wt has a big propagander
stand there right next to the court house we can march the
gb straight to the court and have a public trial right on
the steps just like in the bible then if convicted let the
silent lambs tie them to the columns and stone them with thier
books from the wt stand. i can,t wait to be there. john
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:44:43
Comments
Hey everyone.....I've sat and read all the bantering back
and forth, slamming and name calling. It seems to me to be
a complete waste of time and really serves no purpose, other
than to get people all upset. I think it's important that
we keep things on topic here, this site is for the molested/raped/abused
children of JW's. Much has been going on in that effort, so
I see no point in all the doctrine discussions and arguing.
There are numerous group sites where this would be more appropriate.
'Nuf said. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:44:48
Comments
Hey everyone.....I've sat and read all the bantering back
and forth, slamming and name calling. It seems to me to be
a complete waste of time and really serves no purpose, other
than to get people all upset. I think it's important that
we keep things on topic here, this site is for the molested/raped/abused
children of JW's. Much has been going on in that effort, so
I see no point in all the doctrine discussions and arguing.
There are numerous group sites where this would be more appropriate.
'Nuf said. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:27:10
Comments
i heard and read that article about 2005 it,s hard to explain
it because of the way it was written wt zombies may discuss
it among them selves most are too blind to see it thats why
thier still members!!!i tryed to pin my pop on that one as
usual he went into fallacies in argumention . and hung up
the phone his favorite way out when i catch the wt in another
lie. but i got a better one on the back page of i think may
2000 or 2001wt they go into million now living will never
die .they are talking about today. that would mean that a
baby born today lets say he lived to 100 yrs. that would mean
the world will end in his life time . somebody look it up
i know it,s on the back page of a wt in the last 2 yrs. i,ve
made many wt zombies fume trying to talk thier way out of
that one . maybe one of you big time wt defenders can post
that beaut of prophecy. then explain it.but you won,t want
to discuss it . i know you only want to talk how gods sprit
directed org. is protecting the children from brother molest-a
lot..john
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:39:09
Comments
i never knew you were there! i cried when i saw the site today.
After all these years my experiences find a home, a voice,
a listener. Thanks
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:49:55
Comments
for all you wt supporters you think god choose the wt and
c.t.russell as the fdsin 1874 81 or at any time go to this
site it has everything russell ever wrote. http//www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/start.htm
it,s a lot of work but i like to prove all things true remember
new light never contradicts old light if you have trouble
finding th e good stuff give me a call i,ll help you . next
time your reading a wt and it calls some russell teaching
bible truth you can look it up . how do you think i found
out the wt is full of s__t. J_CHITO@msn.com
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
08:53:14
Comments
SLC *** YOU GO GIRL!!!!! Now that every topic brought up by
the unfortunate soul with the "foot in mouth" disease
has been covered we can get back on the topic of Child Molestation
and other forms of abuse. Thank for getting that cleared up
for us. You were eloquent. Love Y'all, Loris
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
09:23:38
Comments
I THINK THIS VERY HELPFUL. WE FINALLY CAN TALK ABOUT THINGS
WITHOUT BEING JUDGED THAT WE'RE SPIRITUALLY WEAK AND DO NOT
LOVE JAH. I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ABUSE BUT DO GIVE MY HEART
ALL TO HAVE. I HAVE AN 5MOS OLD AND 2 1/2 YR OLD AND HAVE
DECIDED I WILL RAISE THEM TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND NOT BE
JUDGEMENTAL OF OTHERS. TO GIVE OTHERS ALWAYS THE BENEFIT OF
THE DOUBT. I WILL FOREMOST PROTECT THEM FROM THE ABUSE WITHIN
THE ORG. I ONLY LET MY PARENTS AND HUSBAND WATCH MY CHILDREN
AND A VERY FEW SELECTED FRIENDS. I DO NOT LET TEENAGERS WATCH
MY CHILDREN. SO MY HEART AND PRAYERS GOES OUT TO EACH AND
EVERY LAMB OUT THERE! I LOVE YOU ALL FOR JUST BEING YOU! CC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
09:37:54
Comments
Nameless,(JW-Def I assume) you keep holding your breath. Once
again I will try to be clear. I have not seen where SL is
about establishing my beliefs. But I will establish this foundation.
Spousal abuse and the rape of a child is not just a sin, they
are crimes. JW's are working to defend and covet these
types of perpetrators and then send them out into a society
that is unaware of the danger that is knocking at their door.
That is what this site is about giving people information
to protect themselves. If the JW policy makers change their
view on protecting and rewarding criminal behavior then this
site would focus its attention on helping heal the wounds
that are created when rape, physical, and mental violence
destroys lives. I have no doubt that either you or some other
of your type will be coming to my door at some point. After
you walk next to the big American flag waving proudly at my
front door then I will share my beliefs with you. I hope you
hear what I say. But here, I will not engage in a theocratic
debate. That is not what I am here for. I am here to try and
help encourage and give support to the people who have bravely
chosen to stand up and stand with each other against a shadow
like enemy that seeks to cause what is meant by spiritual
division. If you will not respect why, and what most of us
are here for then you will continue to be pushed aside.-Sequia(SEQ)
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:37
Comments
Bill isn't trying to start a doctrinal fight here as far as
who is right about the trinity, the origins of holidays, or
whether to wear pantyhose to the meeting or not. His main
focus is the kids who report their abuse. Let's keep that
in mind, folks.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
10:57:03
Comments
Trying to clean up the inside of the Watchtower organization(with
their child abuse situation) is a good thing. However I do
understand how other people see the benefit of just getting
out of it. Trying to clean out the inside of the Watchtower
is like trying to clean out the inside of a garbage can. There
is so much other trash that it holds also. Like all kinds
of teachings that a regular person would never come up with.
The scriptures have simple truths and also more complicated
truths, but I sure don't believe that there is only a few
(out of 5 billion people on the earth) that can "decode" Gods
word. This is an example of a dirty rags that we find in the
garbage can. _____________"But Jehovah God has also provided
his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet
slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians
in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible
in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of
communication that God is using, we will not progress along
the road of life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." (The
Watchtower 12/1/1981,p.27) So as you can see we have a problem
with authority. The organization in my opinion does not take
any members concerns as being valid, because they are the
ultimate authority speaking for and representing God. We have
a wide problem here and unfortunalty this spills into almost
every aspect of peoples lives.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
11:33:17
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
12:34:49
Comments
very good that the matter is out. romans 13 says we must be
in subjection to "caesers" authority, for it is
jehovahs public servant, and it carries the sword for the
bad deed.how is the society and elders obeying the superior
authorities when it turns a blind eye to serios wrong doing?
peter even said"let none of u suffer as an evil doer".
but nothing can be so carefully hidden that it cannot be revelaed,
for all is laid bare before jehovah, and all must render account
for what they do, mark 4:22 luke 12:2-3 hebrews 4:13 romans
14:12. and before the end comes jehovah "will" clean
his house out 1 peter 4:17.............and this could be jehovah
cleaning his house out.it seems it was covered up so for the
image of the church, but anybody that knows the bible surely
should know that nothing can be covered up.look at examples
of david, achan, eli hophni and phineas.jehovah cannot be
mocked galatians 6:7 the society cannot now judge other religons
until it itself cleans its act up. pmd scotland
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
13:18:22
Comments
Dear ones, I too was a victim as well as my 11 year old son.
My experience is 18 pages long. However, I would like to share
it with you, but I need an address to send it to. Please send
me a mailing address. I would also like to know if you can
direct me to Jay Walter's experience. My dear friend told
me to read it, but I can't find it on your site of "silent
lambs" Could you please direct me to it. Thank you, csz1914@cs.com
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
15:32:49
Comments
Hello, my name is Mark Palo and I can be contacted at >>>>palo50@juno.com<<< Several
years ago I came forward and told my story to Randall Watters
and he published it on his Free minds web site. I had no idea
that there was such an underground of others who had suffered
as I had. As I have read the multitude of postings, talked
to victims and viewed the two television programs I was shaken
by the numbers. What happened to me over 40 years ago has
paled by some of your experiences. I can not believe the arrogance
and sheer mendacity of the Society in their dealings with
the victims.I at age 52 still suffer from PTSD, anxiety and
panic attacks due to my experiences and treatment at the hands
of the Watchtower. What has totally angered me are the ones
in the organization who deny it, and blow this entire thing
off as apostate ravings. These people are nothing but cretins.
I was raped right at Bethel by a Bethelite. My parents where
under the illusion that if one was a JW one could do now wrong.
Even in my town of Lowell, MA. the Witnesses have called me
a liar, apostate and demonized. The last I don't understand,
because since when does telling the truth make you demonized?
The first two I understand because this is the way they deal
with anyone who dares to speak out and tell of their experiences.
I was told by one elder that I had fabricated this in my mind.
I ask, how does one fabricate PTSD and all the other symptoms
to several highly trained psychologists and psychiatrists?
But then the Watchtower thinks psyhcology is a Witch doctors
remedy anyway. Peace, Mark Palo
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
15:53:17
Comments
i see a lot of people here don,t like my posts me calling
watchtowerites zombies showing the wt lies weekly about thier
past .what does that have to do with the silent lambs. alot
...3 yrs. ago i exposed the wt to the zombies i know in the
bronx i shown many how the wt lies ,contradicts it self calls
false prophecy bible truth.etc. etc.etc.in every instance
they just stand there like zombies and say anything to defend
the wt. no problem believe what you want. but now were talking
about kids being molested. this is a total diffent ball game.
these zombies all tell me it,s all lies.etc. it this point
i want to take a stick and put up thier butt to see how they
like it . then i tell them you can,t complain because you
don,t have 2 witnesses. so see the whole wt community is an
a acessary to these unspeakable crimes by defending the wt
at any cost . i say put all these zombies in jail who defend
the wt policy on molesters and they can learn first hand what
it,s like to be molested in jail .cause in jail i don,t think
you can find 2 witnesses.and remember the jehovah in bklyn
won,t want to slander the good name of your fellow inmates
. john
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
16:22:58
Comments
John, I am a Bronx native transplanted to Taxachusetts. Might
I ask what part of the Bronx you are from. I came from the
Upper Bronx Cong and then the University Heights Cong.We might
have mutual aquaitances. Mark Palo
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
17:41:20
Comments
Mark i,m from c o-op city or the old gun hill cong. area every
zombie in co-op city knows me my father is brother quido he
sometimes goes to the italian meetings he hangs out with that
german pervert carl grolsh and for all you wt spys out there
my father goes to birthday,thankgiving,x-mas partys etc. and
he don,t believe everything the wt teaches.don,t forget to
get a picture of my truck to post in the halls cause i,m hitting
the zombies hard about the child molesters in the wt didn,t
i hear 2 gb members were homosexual sounds like gods arangement
to me mark didn,t i hear about your story on another site
if this happened to you in the bronx feel free to call me
i,ll make a big stink here they won,t like it and expose the
scum to all the members in the bronx by the time i get finished
they will have to df him.J_CHITO@msn.com tel 9173710332 i
get free nights and weekends. may the grace of the lord be
with you. john
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
17:51:00
Comments
**************The mole********Historically, the aim has been
, not to aid the individual or to provide basis for reasoning
with him, but to incriminate, to convict as herietical when
matters of shame come to the fore. Initiating the inquiry
often has nothing to do with the individual's being disruptive,
malicious or even being particularly vocal about his beliefs.
Mere suspicion is sufficient cause to set in motion the inquisitory
action. The suspect is viewed as, in effect, having no rights:
even his personal conversation with intimate friends are treated
as something the inquisitores have full right to delve into.
Its not solely the atrocious acts of punishment meted out
in the spanish inquisition that earned it such a despised
name, is also th authoritarian approach and arrogant methods
of interrogation employed to gain the incrimination so often
zealously pursued by the religious judicial court. The toruture
and the violent punshment meted out then are outlawed today.
But the authouritaritoan approach and arrogant methods or
interrogation can still be practiced with apparent impunity.
My experience in dealing with those removed can be truthfull
said that none of the persons disfellowsipped had any thought
of separating themselves from the organization nor had they
any thought of encouraging others to separate. This should
answer your doubts why i remain. I believe and truly think
that spiritial guidance always was governed by the extent
to which god's word was adhered too; to that extent god grants
his guidance or withdraws it. I think that is true for any
individual or any collective group of people, whoever you
are..........The mole****
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:01:03
Comments
WELCOME "CSZ" <csz1914@cs.com> and we are
sorry to hear you and your son suffered abuse as well! We
hope you are doing OK, and we would love to hear/read your
story! You asked for Jay Walter's story. His story is not
at this SL website. He was not an abused lamb that I know
of. Here is the link to his story: <http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm> You
also asked where to send your story. Address and Email info
for Silent Lambs is on the HOME PAGE of this site, left-hand
column, bottom "blue bar." Love/SLC --- EMAIL (To
SL): To discuss the SL website, write to <Editor@silentlambs.org>.
To offer assistance to the cause of SL, write to <Assistance@silentlambs.org>.
If you want/need help, write to <Help@silentlambs.org>.
If you prefer to correspond via US Mail, the address is: Silentlambs,
P O Box 311, Calvert City, KY 42029.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:05:13
Comments
Buster wrote: "...Brother Roman Fingers..." - Buster,
crack me up! I have not heard that expression (Roman Fingers)
since high school! And so true what you wrote about the BIGGER
ISSUE (not the victims' stories only, but the HANDLING of
those cases, etc.) --- BTW, WELCOME BUSTER, since I had not
yet got around to saying that. Your thoughts are appreciated.
/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:07:46
Comments
Some OTHER "Buster" comments to JW-Defender which
I thoroughly enjoyed "I have a dream ... - Buster." (LOL!)
and "I also like reading the delicate way you have of
making your point. - Buster." (The calm way in which
you express yourself, Buster, impresses me sincerely! Keep
the thoughts coming! /SLC)
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:01
Comments
NY Truck Driver John: Your "subtle" approach reminds
me of a construction worker's jack hammer! ;) <just kidding & welcome
back, I've seen your posts in the past> We each have our
own personalities which shine through in our posts -- which,
btw, I enjoy immensely getting to know everyone via their
heartfelt expressions -- some are noble and eloquent, clear
and precise (Loris & Claudine/CE); some humorously spunky
(Bonnielynn); some mysteriously insightful (Mole); some calm
and reasoned (Buster); some overflow with firey righteous
indignation (Penny); some mince no words/tell it like it is
(Jesika), some blazing, brutal honesty (DJB), etc. -- "In
proportion AS EACH ONE HAS RECEIVED a GIFT, use it in ministering
to one another as fine stewards of God's underserved kindness
EXPRESSED IN VARIOUS WAYS." (1 Peter 4:10) -- (Ahhhh,
that's why I love the Bible. There is ALWAYS the PERFECT scripture
describing every thought/emotion/situation under the sun.)
-- As for me? I'd have to put myself in the "dry, irreverent
wit" department. ;) -- Love to everyone today! /SLC (PS:
No slighting intended to those I may have left out... can't
remember everybody right now, but love ya just the same and
thanks for all your comments! Each one helps promote the healing
for all concerned.)
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:13:04
Comments
JMD wants to go to the Silent Lambs NY March but cant. ---
I know exactly how you feel! I would love to be there! We
will have to go "in spirit." Thanks for your comments.
/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:10
Comments
TO EVERYONE********************************** I must say I
am very saddened by what I am reading here. I have only been
off the site for maybe a week. What used to be a thriving
community of support for abuse victims has turned into biblical
debt and un-needed info about the WT. Why don't all of you
go back about a month or more and read the posts then. They
were all about helping Bill, others, and doing something about
the policy. I hang my head at what I have been reading. Why
even bother arguing with a "JW defender"??????????
The name says it all, and if no one would post a responce--the
JW will get tired of not having the reation they are looking
for and they will LEAVE on their own. The only thing arguing
does is hurt us and give them the upper hand and reason to
stay and cause more trouble. Why argue with a JW who still
believes it is the truth, they won't listen to anything you
say, only try to make sure you know they are right and you
are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on people, we used to be one of
them, stop and think about it---don't get mad and post back---noone
is winning in this-----noone. I will not post unless it gets
back to the reason why this site is here. I refuse to be ANY
PART of this bickering!!! We are survivors of abuse and you
are letting this JW abuse you further----only YOU can make
it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love Jesika
Thoman Dallas,Tx PS If you were a victim and came in here
new to the site, would you stay with all this going on???
How many people have come and left without us knowing, and
may need us, but will not be back because of this stuff going
on. I don't want that on my conscience. Just food for thought,
stop feeding a stray and it will stop coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:39
Comments
To the person who wrote: "hate to say this, but i agree
with jw, too much bashing going on." ----- I would have
to respectfully reply that, If You Can't Take the Heat, Please
Get Out of the Kitchen. -- As Loris, Claudine, SEQ and others
have precisely and truthfully described, the indignation/resentment/anger
at the WTS for it's [abusive] "war crimes" is wholly
and righteously justified. Expression IS HEALING, and together
we are washing each other's "dirty laundry of abuse" [experiences/pain].
It's a group effort. And it works. (If it ain't broke, don't
fix it.) -- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:48
Comments
Please read my post above ----------Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:05
Comments
"
HAVE I GOT A MILLSTONE FOR YOU." (NY Truck Driver/John
to JW Defender). ----- I gotta tell ya John, even in your
righteous tirades, your humor shows thru! Thanks for the laugh!
We need all we can get! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:48
Comments
Bro. Mole wrote: "Many of us have waited but none have
come to address a real answer, for weeks i have sat and tried
to read between the lines but no direct mention of any wrongdoing
has been mentioned and will not be in the future." -----
Mole, that is EXACTLY the "salt in the open wounds;" i.e.,
the fact that there has been No Humbling of itself on the
part of the WTS, No Admission of Error by them; there has
been No Apology or Comforting Gesture toward the victims and
their advocates; there has been No Change in WTS Policy; and
as you rightfully state, none will be forthcoming (their ongoing
hard-ball actions PROVE that). My best advice? Don't anyone "hold
their breath." Love, /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:34:45
Comments
There is nothing worse than adults who pray on young inocents
and no religion worse than the one that protects those animals.
Julian Paniagua
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:44:41
Comments
Thanks to whoever quoted this: "...we will NOT progress
along the ROAD of LIFE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIBLE READING WE
DO." (The Watchtower 12/1/1981,p.27) ----- Does that
sound like blasphemy [of the Holy Spirit] to anyone, or is
it just me? What about Ps. 119:105-107, "YOUR [Jah's]
WORD is a lamp to my foot and a light to my ROADWAY [Jah's
WORD, not the WTS' words!]. I have made a sworn statement,
and I will carry it out, To keep YOUR righteous judicial decisions.
I have been afflicted to a great extent. O Jehovah, PRESERVE
ME A-L-I-V-E A-C-C-O-R-D-I-N-G TO Y-O-U-R W-O-R-D." -----
Compare also Joshua 1:8. ----- And how about Philippians 2:16, "Keep[ing]
a TIGHT GRIP on the WORD OF LIFE." -- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:55:53
Comments
WELCOME MARK PALO!!! Thanks for sharing your painful story!
What you say is PROFOUND and so true ("you made it up
in your mind;" denial by the cretins; shock at the numbers
of abused coming out; arrogance of the WT in their dealings
with the victims, etc.). You ask: "...since when does
telling the truth make you demonized?" -- Answer: When
the TRUTH does not "Tickle the Ears" of those hearing
that TRUTH! When telling the TRUTH might rip-open the Devil's
Cover-Up! -- You also asked: "...how does one fabricate
PTSD and all the other symptoms...?" -- Answer: As you
know all too well, one cannot/does not put on an "act" of
PTSD symptoms. No one would wish PTSD on their worst enemy.
Sadly, those symptoms were given birth deep into every fiber
of the frightened child or teen at the time of their abuse.
Your cong and the WTS may not VALIDATE your experience and
pain but WE DO! You HAVE BEEN HEARD! Thanks again for sharing!
Hang in there! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
19:20:56
Comments
For all those out there who want to 'write a book' please
DON'T USE THIS SPACE FOR IT! Your manners are terrible. It
makes the rest of us who would like to read the guestbook,
give up. Don't be so insensitive. We are here TO SUPPORT BILL
AND THE LITTLE SHEEP, not to teach doctrine. STOP IT!!
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:33
Comments
Jesika is right, the post above this one is right, Linda is
right. Back to the issues! Use email for the other stuff or
visit jWD
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
20:39:33
Comments
This site has been exposed as a JW bashing party.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
20:44:01
Comments
BACK TO THE REASON WHY BILL STARTED THIS!!!!!!!!!! This is
a site for abuse,and for the support of those in need or who
need it. Don't use it for a heated argument of nothing pertaining
to the silentlambs site!!!!!!!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx***************For
more of my thoughts look for my post today starting with TO
EVERYONE!! Love Jesika Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:19:28
Comments
The Watchtower Society shelters more than one type of abuse.
The abuse that this site was designed for and the abuse from
the society itself with it's shunning policy. As you can see
if you disagree with them, they easy answer is to get rid
of the person. This organization will not change as long as
people see these spiritual leaders as "Gods representatives
on earth". The shunning is secondary to the first (child
abuse) coverup in this case. However this is how these leaders
conduct business across the board. There blood policy, their
new light policy, their child abuse cover up policy, etc.
are all symptoms of people being convinced that the holy spirit
does not dwell in all Christians(Though the bible teaches
that) I feel that you will not change this group as long as
they have convinced themselves that they are not acountable
to the people who follow their every command. Good luck. Your
going to need it.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:45:38
Comments
For Much Constructive, Helpful Info for Visiting Lambs & Their
Families who are seeking info or comfort or assistance (or
anyone for that matter), please do check out the HOTLINE button
on the HOME PAGE; and also the FAQ section on the HOME PAGE;
and also the ASSISTANCE button on the HOME PAGE; and to read
the stories of fellow victims, please do read the ABUSED LAMBS
and BATTERED LAMBS sections found via the Blue Bars on the
HOME PAGE OF THIS WEBSITE. After reading all of that, you
could also go back and read prior Guestbook entries beginning
from March 2001. And if you want to write the owner of this
website, please see the EMAIL bar on the HOME PAGE. Thanks/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:53:49
Comments
HAS EVERYONE VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS? --- ""friends
of silentlambs"-We wish to establish a network of safe
houses for victims who may be in danger or who may be victimized
by misguided Jehovah's Witnesses. We are looking for
individuals who could provide sanctuary for up to thirty days
for parents and children who may be threatened. We would like
to establish safe havens in every state within the United
States. We ask you provide information about your ability
to be able to assist in this regard. If you would like to
become a part of a network known as "friends of silentlambs",
to register write to Assistance@SilentLambs.org." ---
This info can be found at the "HELP SILENT LAMBS" blue
button in the left column of the HOME PAGE. If, like me, you
don't live in a place big enough to provide such in-house
assistance, how about offering to be a telephone contact person
in your area, for phone support to victims, if needed or called
upon to do so? FYI/Food for Thought. Thanks/SLC (btw, yes,
I already offered my name/# should there be any lambs in my
area. So far no calls though).
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:57:46
Comments
BLM-You put it so mildly, and I like it! ;-) "SHAME ON
YOU, YOU STUPID STUPID MEN! SHAME SHAME SHAME!!" -- and,
btw, thanks for the info about the WT/PR statements for the
police! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:59:18
Comments
THIS WAS PRICELESS! Thanks Loris!!! --- "This is no party.
This is an Emergency Room. * If you can't take it maybe you
should get out of our Emergency Room." --- Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:59:58
Comments
Hey guys, I want to comment on the last few days of hostile
posting. I think it is fair to say that JW doctrine debates
will bring out the worst in people. That is why I study the
art and science of "propaganda." That type of persuasion
is poison to individual thought. I can not stress enough the
need for more education in understanding the tactics of a
propagandist. That was my intent in allowing the discussion
to take place yesterday. It is easy to fall in trap, “name-calling,
ridiculing, dismissing whatever is said from a different point
of view, and changing the discussion to issues without any
substance.” These are but a few tricks that a trained
propagandist will use. I said months ago, these are patterns
and tactics that anyone who engages destructive cults will
have to familiarize yourself with. We must train our children
what these people are about. Witnesses teach that they spread
the "truth" about---Whatever. But the word has a
different meaning to them than it does to the average person.
Deception, lies, violence (Rape is violence not just sex),
and intimidation have nothing to do with true spirituality.
There is no excuse for these actions period. And to defend
them is even worse. Outside of SL and the JW I have been accused
of trying to “legislate morality" in the big picture
of child rape and religion. God willing that will happen.
We have as a society failed to hold to moral principles. I
belive that is why cult like organizations continue to thrive
worldwide. They offer a sense of morality, distorted as it
is that is the best thing people in them have known. The WTS
is a small group and insignificant in the world of cults but
the crater they leave in the lives they destroy gives me reason
to not ignore them. I have told hundreds of people about this
site. In turn they have told people and so on. I have advertised
this site in newspapers and write the media. Montel Williams
did a first class show on destructive cults today. I recommend
you guys look to get a copy. I taped it. The truth about what
is happening is getting out. Be patient. (I once heard that
sometimes you can see crab-traps that have the top open; just
barely above the water. Every time that a crab tries to clime
out of the trap the other crabs pull the escapee back down.)
(I hope you can use that analogy someday.)-With love and understanding-SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:21:52
Comments
jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net asked: "So if indeed this
is the case, what are we to do? Flee, flee to what.... Who
else has the teachings of life?" ----- Dear jgibson:
This is exactly the point where the WTS has confused all of
us to no end. We have been indoctrinated to believe that we
can ONLY get to GOD & JESUS THRU the WTS, which is not
the case at all. I'm sure you will recall the conversation
between Jesus and Peter: "Simon Peter answered him: "Lord,
WHOM shall we go away to? YOU have sayings of EVERLASTING
LIFE; and we have believed and come to know that YOU are the
Holy One of God." (John 6: 68,69) ---- Please note that
Peter did not ask Jesus, "WHAT religious ORGANIZATION
shall we go away to?" But he asked, "WHOM shall
we go away to?" (WHOM as in a PERSON, not a THING). It
clearly shows Jesus is the "WHOM" who gives Everlasting
Life, not a man-made religious group or Ruling Body of Men.
As someone wrote on this site, "Fear Fades When Facts
Are Faced." There is nothing to fear because the fact
is, we were SUPPOSED TO BE GOING DIRECTLY TO JESUS HIMSELF
ALL ALONG, each of us individually. How? "The helper,
the holy spirit... THAT ONE WILL TEACH YOU... [how]." (John
14:26). --- This scripture alone, though known for years and
read many times, is like Brand New when seen w/o the WT-Blinders
On. Think about it. Hope this helps. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:28:13
Comments
SILENT LAMBS MARCH 9-27-02: Within the past day or two someone
asked what was the March all about, and where could they get
info? --- First, please go to the HOME PAGE of this site
<www.silentlambs.org> You
will find these links in BLUE on the Home Page, just scroll
down a little if you don't see it right off, but here is what
is listed on the home page in this order: ** Watch Panarama
(the BBC's documentary on JW sex abuse) ** Panarama Transcript
** Panarama Spanish ** DATELINE PICTURES ** DATELINE TRANSCRIPT
** DATELINE AUDIO ** DATELINE SPANISH ** PRESS RELEASE 5/07/02
******** SILENTLAMBS MARCH 9-27-02 INFORMATION LATEST INFO
******** There, did you FIND IT? It's the last item in the
list on the HOME PAGE. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:36:20
Comments
CC wrote about her kids: "I WILL RAISE THEM TO HAVE AN
OPEN MIND AND NOT BE JUDGEMENTAL OF OTHERS. TO GIVE OTHERS
ALWAYS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT." ----- Hi CC, thanks
for your comments and prayers. I liked what you wrote there.
Our "normal" sinful inheritance leads us to judge
others, which is bad enough. But when we spend many years
in a religion which teaches us to CONTINUE JUDGING rather
than teaching us to, as you describe, NOT be judgmental/give
people the benefit of the doubt, etc., Well, we have alot
of un-learning to do, and it's nice to see you are instilling
this into your babes while they are still young. Thanks for
the reminder! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:43:32
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:43:56
Comments
DJB wrote the other day: "It is going around the world
and exposing this for all to see. This could only be with
Jehovah's blessing. ... Luke 12: 1,3 "...WHAT YOU WHISPER
IN PRIVATE ROOMS WILL BE PREACHED FROM THE HOUSETOPS." -----
Thanks again, DJB! While sharing your scriptures with another
forum, the thought came to me that the antennas on HOUSETOPS
allow us to receive TV-shows like Dateline and Panorama, etc.,
and this could be ONE WAY the SL message is being Preached
From The Housetops. ;-) Just a thought... /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:45:28
Comments
TO THOSE WHO DEFEND WTS, by Claudine: Excellent Response,
clear, concise, and oh so REASONABLE!!!! Thanks! SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:46:04
Comments
Soapbox! GOOD GOOD GOOD. Excellent Essay. I am so touched
by the way you express yourself! Who can refute what you wrote?
Thanks again. /SLC (Soapbox began with -- partial quote --
see full entry above -- "Only man can make God's Law
inequitable...and Jesus fulfilled the law, did away with it
and gave us the command to love one another. Two witnesses
is a guideline used by WTS in an inequitable way without love.
It is used to hide behind when all else fails to cover their
tracks.")
Remote User:
Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:50:45
Comments
Hi bjc2! I, FOR ONE, THANK YOU for your efforts and for the
information about The Report, and the details & addresses
for it, and the corrections to the misunderstood parts, etc.
I hope the ones who complained about "books" will
not upset you. I was glad to have had this Report brought
to my attention, since I am open to all possibilities at this
point. Thanks again/SLC.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:02:09
Comments
Hi Linda Birt & Family: Thanks for sharing your story
and filling us in on the first-hand experience your [elder]
husband and yourself had with the way the WTS dealt with abuse
in the UK. Glad to hear you have been able to move on from
it. I notice you said you have almost finished counselor training
and would like to help. I was wondering if you would be interested
in or if you noticed the bar on the Home Page of this site, "HELP
SILENT LAMBS"? There on that page, Paragraph #6 says, "COUNSELING-If
you have credentials for counseling victims of molestation
and would like to help direct them on how to get the best
assistance, CLICK HERE." When you click there, it opens
up your email program in order to email Silent Lambs at this
address: write to: Assistance@SilentLambs.org. --- Thanks
again! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:11:37
Comments
Did everyone see the email sent around by Silent Lambs re:
the Navy's website on JWs? <http://www.chaplaincare.navy.mil/JehovahWitnesses.htm> Two
things caught my eye while reading it: (a) "A group of
members called STEADFASTERS opposed all support of World War
I. Later, THE SOCIETY ADOPTED THE STANCE OF THE STEADFASTERS." ---
Hmmmm.... Does anyone think there is hope the WTS will "adopt
the stance" of the SILENT LAMB STEADFASTERS??? That would
sincerely be great, wouldn't it? (However, taking my own advice
above, I will Not be holding my breath). ----- The second
thing I noticed (humorously) is that the Navy gives a New
Title that could be used in addition to elder/PO/SO/CO/DO...
and it is: "J.O." (Navy's quote: "As in all
large organizations, official policies must be administered
by junior officials.") There you have it, JUNIOR OFFICIALS!
:-) Well, I thought it was funny! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:13:56
Comments
THIS IS WHY! THIS IS T-H-E PURPOSE! THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT
ALL WORTH WHILE! -- A visitor wrote Date: 08 Aug 2002, Time:
07:39:09: "i never knew you were there! i cried when
i saw the site today. After all these years my experiences
find a home, a voice, a listener. Thanks." ----- WELCOME
WELCOME to "All These Years"! So glad you found
Bill Bowen's Silent Lambs site, because w/o him having created
this, the entire sex abuse situation in the congs would still
be nothing but a "secret" in the "back rooms." Your
experiences are VALIDATED! Your tears are RECOGNIZED & UNDERSTOOD!
Your pain is SHARED! You are Not Alone! Please come "home" often!
Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:46
Comments
"
...and stone them with their books from the wt stand." -----
Now now, NY-John, that ISN'T very nice, is it? (but it DID
give me a Big Chuckle!) When I read your posts, words like "Fearless" and "Firey
Flame" come to mind! ----- I am remembering a TV commercial
from several decades ago: "What does the average citizen
on the streets of New York think about the WTS? Only your
friendly NY Truck Driver KNOWS FOR SURE..." :-) -- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:12
Comments
Every time a jw comments it seems like everyone goes for their
head. I have observed with some interest what has been going
on and quite frankly am shocked and amazed at the lack of
respect displayed when one offers an opinion that is different
from most here. I thought this site was to help victims. It's
amazing I go way back in the posts and the central theme is
anti-jw talk. Sincerely, JR
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:27:22
Comments
WHAT COULD I POSSIBLY ADD TO THIS EXCELLENT POST? NOT A SINGLE
THING! BECAUSE C.E. HIT THE DEAD-CENTER OF THE BULLS-EYE WITH
HER VERY FIRST ARROW OF WELL-POINTED-WORDS (Thanks CE!!!!
/SLC) ----- "And like having an unfaithful spouse who
doesn't care, they continue to lie or cover-up the problem.
And there can be no reconcilation under those circumstances.
This is grievious. ... the so called bashing is a reaction
to the very things we all once where seduced by to our own
detriment and blindness. A Trust was betrayed - this is a
very serious offense against the human spirit. Jehovah hates
a liar. ... Any person who comes here who has been harmed
is warmly comforted. This is all that we can do here. It is
so little. Someone has to be here when they come - so we wait.
... We are appalled at what we ourselves have done in the
past with the Truth - lording over the worldly people, judging
them, pat answers for complexity, having no interest in others
except as a potential sheep is appalling. ... The bitterness,
the sadness, the anger expressed here is an appropriate safe
place to do this. People who have been oppressed have to find
expression. ... I had found the truth and then found out that
the deliver of the truth is a liar and a cheat - well it is
heartbreaking, spiritually devastating and cynical. ... Jusified
anger isn't ungodly. ...The WTS has the biggest responsibility
to do this and they did not and will not. If they had - we
all wouldn't be here*******************glady. C.E."
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:39:47
Comments
To Loris who wrote: "SLC *** YOU GO GIRL!!!!!" -----
(Replying in my best Elvis voice): Thaaaank Ya Thaaank Ya
Thaaaank Ya (kindly!) :-) I feel DITTO re: YOUR so-much-more
eloquent posts! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:27
Comments
Anonymous wrote: "Bill isn't trying to start a doctrinal
fight here as far as ... whether to wear pantyhose to the
meeting or not." ----- LOL! That one made me laugh! NOTICE:
New Website & Reform Movement Being Established for All
JW Sisters: "The Silent Suffering of Pantyhose Wearers." Join
Now at <www.PantyhoseNoMore.org> ----- (Hey, it's a
JOKE! However, I'd rather die than have to wear pantyhose
again. I should have taken out stock in "L'Eggs" in
my younger working & JW years... /SLC)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:47:53
Comments
A Visitor wrote: "Incest is a taboo, and should not be
allowed to continue, I feel very stong about this, and thank
you for letting me share my thoughts." ----- No, WE THANK
YOU for commenting. When I saw your post, in the middle of
all of the JW-Defender posts yesterday, I thought to myself, "Praise
Jah some SANE people are posting today!" --- Well said
Visitor! /SLC
Remote User:
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:57:41
Comments
Anonymouse asked: "Request to Jehovah's Witness people:
Help me to find (in the bible) the Great Crowd's plan of salvation.
The annointed Christians plan is covered quite well. I do not
see anything about a plan of salvation for a Great Crowd." -----
So sorry Bible questioner. 7 or 8 people today advised we not
answer bible questions/doctrine not relating to sex abuse specifically.
----- Seriously, I'd look something up for you if I wasn't already
pooped. I'm surprised JW-Defender didn't take the opportunity
to reply to your post. Suggestion: You can submit a question
at any of these sites: Just JWs at msn (go to msn groups, and
search for Just JWs), or post your Q at (<http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi> Questions
for the forum, email to: cc-questions@channelc.org) -- OR --
you could post your question as a New Topic at <www.Jehovahs-Witness.com>.
You will get all the answers you need at these places. Another
idea, of course, is to ask your neighborhood JW when they call
at your home, or call their KHall and ask someone. I suggest
this since no one has answered you yet and you could get a faster
response at the above forums. Hope this helps. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:58:29
Comments
That was a typo above - AnonymousE. I meant, of course, Anonymous.
.SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:24:10
Comments
JR wrote: " Every time a jw comments it seems like everyone
goes for their head." ----- Reply: The tendency to "go
for their head" only surfaces when they exhibit such
a Self-Righteous Attitude that is hard to stomach for those
who have either been there themselves and/or can SEE RIGHT
THRU the fasehood of their "truth."----- JR continued: "I
have observed with some interest what has been going on and
quite frankly am shocked and amazed at the lack of respect
displayed when one offers an opinion that is different from
most here." ----- Reply: You must not be a JW. Otherwise,
you would realize that the "opinions offered which are
different from the ones here," are nothing but WTS propaganda
which has been drilled into the heads of these ones who are
expressing so-called OPINIONS. (See SEQUOIA's Post above).
Also, what real knowledge and/or insight do you have into
the spirit of an abused one? If you had some, I think you
would understand a little more clearly. ----- JR continued: "I
thought this site was to help victims." ----- We must
be reading different websites! I see numerous posts from people
who express THANKS and COMFORT from this website. ----- JR's
finaly thought was: "It's amazing I go way back
in the posts and the central theme is anti-jw talk." -----
To that I reply: DUH! WONDER WHY???? WHO IS IT That ABUSED
the Lambs and Their Supporters? More correctly that should
read: ANTI-WTS TALK. JW members as a whole are still in the
blinded-grasp of their propagandist/cultish LEADERS, and therefore,
are not totally responsible. (On second thought, after reading
some of Truck-Driver-John's posts, I might have to change
my opinion on that). - Anyway, JR, I'm sorry you are not seeing
the MEANING of the dynamics here. It seems you are only noticing
the SURFACE of things. I guess it's truer than true when they
say, "You would have had to have BEEN THERE" [to
appreciate/understand it]. But, that's okay, and don't worry,
We Won't Shoot JR! ;-) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:38:09
Comments
THIS BEARS REPEATING & Thanks to PMD in Scotland for posting
it: "The society cannot now judge other religions until
it itself cleans its act up." -- So True, PMD. Otherwise,
they will continue to look like fools. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:47:47
Comments
TO "Good Luck, You're Going To Need It" who wrote: "This
organization will not change as long as people see these spiritual
leaders as "Gods representatives on earth." ---
Reply: Good point, poster. When I read things like this, I
remember how I felt as a JW, and you are so correct - I would
never have fathomed that the leaders could be in the wrong,
and would have closed my mind and ears and shuddered at any
talk against them. ----- You also wrote: "I feel that
you will not change this [WTS/JW] group..." -- Reply:
Maybe not. But what has and/or WILL CHANGE is WE, OURSELVES.
We are no longer in darkness! We are no longer alone and suppressed!
And THAT is the BEST Change of All even if the WTS stays the
same (more like, "Keeps Regressing.") Thanks for
your best wishes! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:57:49
Comments
Hi SEQ! Thanks for your reminder of your knowledge about propaganda
and cult activity. Wish I'd known about Montel today, I would
have watched it for sure. And thanks for your efforts which
you described (getting the word out, etc.) The great news
is that once we "get the sense of it," we come to
realize, sometimes in a flash, that we are FREE TO go STRAIGHT
to Jesus and Jehovah without the middle-men, and I mean LITERALLY
WITHOUT the Middle-Men! This opens up a whole new area of
exciting discovery, that with the help of The Helper (the
holy spirit) an entirely NEW, BETTER & MORE IINTIMATE
relationship with Our Father and His Son is waiting in the
wings (of the mother hen who is longing to gather we "chicks" to
herself). Thanks again, and Good Night All. I think I'm all
caught up for awhile.. .Love/SLC -- AND BEST WISHES TO BILL
ON SUNDAY!!!!! Anybody know if he got enough letters???? I
sure HOPE SO!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
02:07:54
Comments
I looked up this website after seeing the 'Dateline NBC' segment
profiling cover-ups of child abusers/molesters within the
JW church. I was simply APPALLED by what I found here. The
sickening acts of JW church members, and just as bad, the
cover-ups by church elders and ostracism/isolation of abuse
victims was absolutely disgusting. That being said, I absolutely
believe the stories on this site. This site is, I think, essential
for those who have been isolated - sometimes by family members
- for daring to expose the vile acts committed by JW members.
For the record - I am not a JW, although my grandmother was.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
02:15:27
Comments
OK. I debated whether to post this, but since I am signing
off, I will post it anyway since I feel (imho of course) some
of my feelings are valid: Here goes: I think you guys (mostly
ANONYMOUS ones who don't give a name/handle) who are griping
about the recent WTS discussions are putting Way Too Much
Emphasis on it. (Just in this August 2002 Part 2 of the Guestbook,
I see about 7 or 8 such complaints.) Because, as Loris and
Claudine CORRECTLY EXPLAINED, EVERYTHING ABOUT the WTS affects
the lambs -- the two are DEEPLY intertwined. They cannot be
separated. So BIG DEAL if some doctrinal stuff is discussed?
It's just a phase. (Compare it with 18 entire months of posts!)
It does NO HARM TO "NEW" LAMBS WHO VISIT HERE, imo,
to see a little WTS "doctrine exposure." BESIDES,
it is NOT ONLY VICTIMS who visit here, but no doubt MANY worldly
people (see SEQ's recent post as an example) and maybe even
some JWs who silently read but do not reply. If they learn
ONE NEW THOUGHT from these types of posts (WT doctrine espose'),
ALL THE BETTER for the worldly visitors AND/or the JWs. ---
And let's say I was a worldly person reading JW Defender's
posts yesterday and then saw that NO ONE EVEN PUT FORTH ANY
EFFORT TO REFUTE all the baloney he was saying. What would
I think as an unknowing worldly person? I would think he was
CORRECT, that's what I would have thought! So RESPONSES from
the regulars here WAS APPROPRIATE, imo. --- Also, if some
current JW (defenders or whomever) DIRECTLY ASKS ME SOMETHING,
please be advised I WILL REPLY, and if it is "book size" in
nature, who are you to complain? Are you the owner of the
site? Just don't read the posts! Doesn't everyone know how
to use their SCROLL ARROW or Mouse? Scroll OVER the posts
if you don't feel like reading them. (How hard is that to
do?) --- Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the complainers
complaining. I would never DISCOURAGE ANYONE (of the "Good
Guys") from posting - that would NOT be nice MANNERS
- as a matter of fact, THAT would be INSENSITIVE. --- And
if you are going to "GIVE UP" that easily, then
Hmmm.... what does that say for Tenacity? --- No, I am NOT
suggesting the purpose of this site be changed for all eternity,
but I think it's NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL that some WT-doctrine-discussion/exposure
has occurred. Knowledge is Power, remember? The NEW VISITORS
are posting many THANKFUL POSTS. I think it is some of the "anonymous
regulars and/or lurkers" who are complaining. And I hardly
think any Wounded Lamb is going to run away from the site
permanently due to some WT doctrine discussion. (Even if they
do leave for awhile, they will not forget what they read and
it will sink in. That's how it has happened with me... slowly
sinks in, even if the "first swallow" was hard to
get down.) --- Lastly, if there IS UPDATED SL activity going
on to be shared, by all means SHARE IT and fill us in! The
only updates I see are the emails sent out by B.Bowen and/or
from the Guestbook and/or Home Page listings. --- Maybe WT
doctrine-discussion has occurred because the "complainers" are
NOT posting anything themselves! --- I'll borrow SoapBox'
moniker for this one. Agape/SLC ----- PS: In defense of John/NY,
sure his posts may be a little harsh in delivery, but does
he not also have a right to be incensed about the abused JWs?
C'mon, people, remember Jesus' words: "FOR HE THAT IS
NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US." (Mark 9:40) -- and the verse
right above that one says, "DO NOT TRY TO PREVENT HIM,
for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis
of [Jesus'] name that will quickly be able to revile [Jesus]..." (Mark
9:39)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:19:46
Comments
"
There is no baby in the bathwater - throw it out!"....Too
cute. Thanks.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:22:09
Comments
Seems the Newspaper articles are becoming scarce, I wonder
if the fickle media cares about the smear campaign you have
going on now? I guess the new is wearing off the story. Maybe
Bill should dress up in a clown costume, or maybe go on a
hunger strike to get this thing rolling again.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:36:08
Comments
This just in: I heard the number signed up for Bills march
on New York is now up to 10 people! They may have to call
in the Police for crowd control!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:43:39
Comments
Breaking News: The Benton Kentucky times has promised a special
issue with full front page coverage of Bills march on New
York. With a circulation of 32 this will surely raise the
ire and shock of the American public to levels not seen since
Dateline (most of which was pre-empted by playoff games across
the USA) The public will see what wicked people JW's truly
are!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:31:03
Comments
Silentlambs March September 27 . . . . . . . There is a book
publishing company in Brooklyn that we are going to picket.
The company has a strict dress code (like the old EDS or IBMs)
The company is telling all current and prospective employees
(and anyone else who will listen) that the picketers are just
DISGRUNTLED ex employees. They say the ex employees havent
worked for the company in years maybe decades and are just
a bunch of losers who cant find other jobs. But what if the
picketers look like they still work for the company or that
they just quit last week? It will be harder for the publishing
company to smear the picketers and the picketers get the best
PR. . . . . WHEN WE MARCH FOR SILENTLAMBS WE DON'T LOOK LIKE
APOSTATES!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:31:52
Comments
***Jay Walter's story can be found here----
>*** http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:40:20
Comments
Hi. I was raised JW. While I agree with JW's view on paradise
earth and a non-trinity God...and while I am glad that this
site does address sexual abuse issues..what about the OTHER
forms abuse withIN the JW org? Such a emotional and religous
abuse? What about ruling people's personal lives? Espeicalli
on NON_bibical issues such as : telling grown adults OVER
21 who they can date or not? Telling men that they can not
wear bears? Rigif formal Mormon-like dress codes from the
1950's? Telling people that it is "Their choice" to
celebrate birthdays or not"..but then when individuals
DO 'choose' to celebrate birthdays..then they are tagged as "spiritually
weak"? What about those HORRID "Kingdom Mealodies" from
HELL? And the refusel to allow contemporary music in worship
instead of Bach? Lastly, what about the simple fact that "The
Governing Body"/"The Society"/"The Organization"...is
viewed as "The Channel to Jehovah"? Is that not
supose to Jesus' postion ONLY? RenewedEarthPress@hotmail.com
Renewed Earth Press P.O. Box 142 Ojai,CA 93024
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:11:56
Comments
hi all its john i,ve been reading this site for a year gaining
kmowledge and all here are in my prays. i take what i learn
and use it in the field with the power of the holy sprit i
hope to help others as well as myself. in the last year i
had to tell hundreds and hundreds of wt members i,m going
to make a prophecy watch out for dateline child molestation
in the wt is going to come to a head. they all laughed at
me .i know some watched it in the last momth or so i can see
the confusion in some of thier faces i think all this talk
from the kh to the door steps about molestation is ringing
a sour note in some of thier hearts. i keep in my truck printouts
of all kinds dirt on the wt i try to be ready for all incounters.try
to keep in mind i try to witnesses in christian love. it,s
mostly wt members who fruitlessly try to attack me for exposing
the wt. thats what pisses me off when some one has no sense
of reason. let the pharisees of the wt be thrown in the pit
by ceasar after all that has been hidden is exposed to the
light let all who refuse reproof also led into the pit. you
gotta love proverbs.p.s. the light machine is sitting idle
i,m home sick. but that ok i finally got to talk here with
some beautiful people . look for me at the march .freedom
in christ to all john
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:42
Comments
to 9:40:20 I think the advice not to wear "bears" is
a good one Just think how painful and potentially fatal that
could be! One could suffocate and maybe even die! Or think
about the possibilities of being scratched by those tremendous
claws. Infection could set up and possibly kill you!......Whine,
cry, snibble, sniff! It sounds like you and most other people
just don't like to live by any rules, who are they to tell
me I can't do something? Sounds a little familiar "Satan...Who
is Jehovah to tell me what to do? It all amounts to the fact
that you don't like to be told what to do so you harp on things
like wearing a "bear". By the way there are two
brothers in good standing in my congregation that wear "bears"
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:29
Comments
John, sorry to hear your sick today. I looked for a email
addy from your earlier posts but couldn't find one, was gonna
ask you a personal question. bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:44:55
Comments
More news from the AP: Silent Lambs Movement strapped for
cash? To raise cash for the Silent Lambs Movement organizers
are hosting a Masquerade party. The theme will be Bible characters.
Come as your favorite fictional Bible character. The best
dressed winner will receive a grab bag full of JW puns, jokes
and other Misc. JW bashing tools. It promises to be alot of
fun and the entry fee is only 13 cents. Organizers hope to
attract at least 8-10 people and put a possible .80 - 1.30
in the SL kitty for future marches to expose what evil people
the JW's are.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:46:57
Comments
to all thoses complaining about jw bashing come to the bronx
i,ll set you up with a private study with brother carl grolsh
in co-op city after he gropes you and asks you all kinds of
sex positions that turn you on . etc etc. that,s what some
of my family members and i have seen in the last 30 yrs. one
can only imagine the love he,s going to show when no one is
around .after a few studys with brother grolsh . you,ll be
singing a different tune maybe soprano. you better hope jesus
shows up when you tell the elders . oh! i forgot he,s only
one witnesses! this brother will never admit to anything ,but
he puts in alot of time. let me know when you want this study.don,t
to forget to wear your ARMOR!!!!! waiting in the bx john
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:53:57
Comments
To the one/or ones who are enjoying them selves by making
these snide comments - Are you a believer in the heavenly
FATHER? If yes, then do you truly in your heart feel the HE
approves of you poking fun at this site? At abuse suvivor's?
Can you not see, with your spirit that you are only causing
HIM to take a closer look at YOU, we may not know who you
are and why your doing this but HE does! I bet you'de even
feed a baby pigglet a chop too!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:02:33
Comments
"
I'd bet you'd even feed a baby piglet a chop too" ?????????
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:11:10
Comments
No one is poking fun at the abused. The puns simply show the
extent that this site has degenerated and gotten away from
its purpose. Why can you guys take stabs at JW's by insinuating
what evil people we are because of a few bad ones by bringing
up old history and other completely unrelated rhetoric but
we can't comment or poke fun at completely unrelated issues
as well? Is this your party only and you can cry if you want
to? Get back to the topic and maybe the posts from these others
you are whining about will stop!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:36:14
Comments
Regarding the comment - Why can you guys take stabs at JW's
by insinuating what evil people we are because of a few bad
ones by bringing up old history and other completely unrelated
rhetoric but we can't comment or poke fun at completely unrelated
issues as well? Is this your party only and you can cry if
you want to? Get back to the topic and maybe the posts from
these others you are whining about will stop! YOU DO NOT EVEN
KNOW ME, YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT I HAVE POSTED HERE, This
is me, bonnielyn, me who made the earlier comment about the
piglet and the chop! YOU look at any of my posts IF YOU DARE!,
and then label ME as one of the 'YOU PEOPLE!' IF you find
one comment that I made that is considered wrong in your heart
then you bring it to my attention and I will ask you to forgive
me for hurting you by my remarks! I do not go around hurting
ANYONE on purpose and if I have then I am sorry! Sincerely
sorry for that!! And if you wouldn't feed a piglet a chop,
glad to hear it! And I ask that you forgive me for saying
I bet you would! I was not poking fun at JW's with that comment,
after all, I didn't even know you were a JW until AFTER I
SAID IT! So how could I have been bashing a JW with that comment?
again, respectfully, and with love of all my neighbors, bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:54:08
Comments
And your comment or who ever it was comment about the .13
cent admission to a party to assist in the silentlamb march
WAS NOT UNRELATED TO THE ISSUE It was a direct HIT, to the
ISSUE, don't insult your own intelligence thinking that it
wasn't! Do you hold your innocent childs little hand with
the same hand that you use to type things in here to make
light of the issue of abusing children??? Do you tuck them
in at night and are thankful that no one has touched them
in ways to break their spirit's and body's with those same
two hands???? Do you not even realize that somewhere right
now there are children, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers,
that are being abused! Not only by non-believers either! Not
only by believers either! Search your spirit before answering
please, truly search it, feel the pain of all of these in
man kind that suffer at the hands of another, that silently
and not so silently beg for help! That are molested, beaten
and mudered by someone put here to protect them!! Search your
heart for the love of others!! IT's in there!!! the wt has
written about it enough that it should be inside you somewhere!
FIND IT! Then you will see for yourself, making light of the
issue of this site and those who care about the children is
not a very nice thing to do! It's not loving! and if your
excuse is that others are doing it to you so you have the
right to do it to others...... is that what the witnesses
teach??? I missed that one in my studys, thought they taught
to 'do onto others as you would do onto yourself'! Has this
'teaching' changed then! It has been awhile since I was in
study so maybe there is 'new light' about how to treat others
that I am not aware of, is there? if so, then I guess your
poking fun and making light of this issue is what your supposed
to do and told to do by the JW's! I am not bashing, poking
fun at or judging with these questions, I am truly ASKING
you! bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:17:56
Comments
"
Rather than focusing on things and time, focus on preserving
and enhancing relationships and accomplishing results." --
Stephen Covey And this I pray: that your love may abound yet
more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge
and all keen insight [that your love may display itself in
greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment],
so that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve
and prize what is excellent and of real value... -- Philippians
1:9, 10 (Amplified Bible) © Copyright 1954, 1958, 1962,
1964, 1965, 1987 by the Lockman Foundation Monday Boosters
are brief, to the point and when you need them the most...every
Monday morning! Pass them on to your friends and family who
can use a weekly boostershot. To subscribe or unsubscribe
go http://www.boosterguy.com/subscribe-biblebooster.html
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:19:30
Comments
A point or two about being 'on the topic': Discussions about
the structure of the organization, discussions about how elders
are taught to deal with complex behind-the-scenes social issues,
discussions of historical events and teachings that lead up
to the current set of beliefs and procedures, are all part
of the topic. A sense of fairness impels us to try to deal
with dissenting opinions - like Defender. In my opinion, the
one thing that most separates this forum from any others is
that it is set up Bill Bowen to change the organization. I
was amazed when I first realized that this site was run by
an active JW. But I also find it interesting when I see a
post from a Defender that it is in the form of thought that
has been ingrained by way too many meetings and repetition.
An active JW will typically start firing off scripture snippets
and asking what is the greater fulfillment?, or 'where will
you go?' They firmly believe that they are at the heart of
the discussion. The JW thinks that the discussion needs to
be around how Ezekial chapter this is in harmony with Matthew
verse that. But to realign their thinking will require that
they first start seeing the bible as more straightforward
instruction for each of us - not as a jigsaw puzzle designed
for the few appointed with the insight of Holy Spirit. That
we all have an obligation to build our own understanding and
not rely on an organization to make these decisions for us.
Pipe dream huh? Yup. Worth trying? I think so. On topic? Definitely.
- Buster (Besides, they can be kind of fun at times.)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:32:17
Comments
bonnielyn, I am going to address myself as CJ from now on.
I did not write the comment about the silent lamb party, I
was the one who wrote that it is simply a response to show
how far this site has degenerated. I truly beleive this. Look
at the post...can you say that most of the posts lately are
related to abuse victims? Maybe yours are but the majority
aren't. I am a JW and I am proud of that. I feel that as a
whole JW's represent Jehovahs' name very well. Yes there are
a few bad apples. I think dredging up 1800's history on JW's
does no good. Yes JW's had some misconstrued views throughout
the ages, but so what! This to me shows progress in a good
way by getting further and further away from wrong views doctrinal
or nondoctrinal. I cannot think of a single religion today
that isn't actually going the opposite direction by becoming
more and more liberal simply because thats what the people
want to hear.I am sickened by anyone who abuses a child, but
recent posts make it seem like all JW's are pedophiles, or
that we have more pedophiles than anyother religion. In the
beginning this site was setup supposedly to help victims,
but whether you accept it or not it has become a JW bash party.
I know that you personally may not be doing it but as it has
been pointed out by many on this site, its those others that
make the whole site look bad, just as afew bad ones in the
JW organization make the whole look bad to you. Personally
I am offended at the insinuations that JW's are evil, just
as you would be offended at anyone making an accusation against
you even though as you said in your post "they don't
know you" Whether or not you or anyone else would like
to admit it most people even the non jw's just plain old regular
people have nothing against us. I have spoken to many in the
field ministry here in Kentucky and to the very few that have
even said anything about this ordeal they still say well It
happens in all religions. Thats the simple truth. Yes many
cases were handled wrong but the governing body and JW's as
a whole cannot be classified or branded as an overall bad
people based on 1800s history as many here would like to make
people believe. So bonnielyn I hope this has cleared up things
between us and I hope that you can help others in here to
be able to let out their anger and frustrations in a more
constructive way. CJ
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:40:30
Comments
Back to the topic... everyone please go to the UN site, look
up, and read the Declaration of the RIGHTS OF CHILDREN, and
bye the way, thanks to the official WT site for putting some
of it in one of their mags so I could be directed to it!!!
ty ty ty! :-) Since it was in the mag of the witnesses then
even witnesses can go and take a look-see, for educational
purposes, since it was in a JW mag! Right? Anyway, take a
look; it is calling for EVERYONE to protect the children from
(just to name two) moral and spiritual harm! I know that the
word of the FATHER said as much, so very long ago, HE made
the call for all to protect our children! Keep them safe!
And to NOT TOLERATE anyone who does them harm! So let us all
strive to do this! This site is here to assist the abused
and battered, surviving lambs, to try and change the hearts
and sight of those who cannot see that protecting the children
is the most important thing! Isn't it? So any more comments
made not reflecting this should not be replied to, it only
adds fuel to the fire! I have no right to tell anyone what
to do, I can only ask, please click on your 'ignore' when
anyone posts comments that do not consider the protection
of children! Thanks to all who do this, and to those who don't,
that's your right, freedom of speech is your right. Man gave
you that! So, I will strive myself to not 'get sucked in'
by the snide remarks. I will try to just, consider the source
and discern the spirit of the ones making them! With love,
from the spirit of love, bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:24:30
Comments
CJ - your comment - I am sickened by anyone who abuses a child,
- a blessing to hear!!! So now that we both are sickened by
this, what can we do? I know that the majority of Witnesses
are good, decent people, people who honestly feel that they
are saving the worldly ones everlasting life. I'm concerned
with the ones who aren't, even if it was just one, and that
one was allowed to continue to abuse just one child, it's
still wrong. If you found my story and read it you then know
that I was raised to believe the doctrine of the JW's, I still
do believe their basic doctrines, love one another, walk in
the footsteps of Jesus, and many more, but the subject here
is the lambs, and I honestly feel that not only speaking out
for the present lambs and past lambs in love and understanding
is important, also, making sure that the future lambs, the
non-believers coming into the 'truth' are protected now! Do
you feel comfortable with the thought of ANYONE allowing a
'known' pedophile to come to your home? If it was a regular
company lets say, and they stated in the media that they 'do
not let a known pedophile to hold a responsible position with-in
their company, and that they do allow the 'known pedophile'
to go to the homes of children to teach, sell, or anything'
would that not make you hesitate wanting that company to send
ANYONE from their company to your home, or the homes of your
loved ones, or even ANYONE'S HOMES? Would it really matter
to you if that 'known' pedophile were with another person?
Would you still want that 'known pedophile' near your children?
Even with someone else they are still able to look at your
children, you are still putting your child in the sight of
a 'known' pedophile, and the sad thing is, you wouldn't even
know it! Oh, yes and the company also stated publicly that
'they may not send the 'known' pedophile to a neighborhood
that knows of them! That might be your neighborhood! Can you
see where I am coming from? I am a survivor of abuse, sexual,
mental, spiritual, verbal, you name it, and I survived it!
I am still surviving it. I am almost 39 years old and cannot
even begin to heal when these abuses continue. I think of
a child out there, anyone's child being abused and I
suffer, my spirit cries out (not to mention my eye's geeze,
one would think I would be dried up by now!) I hear of a child's
life taken by their own parent and I have to find a blessing
in it, I feel, truly feel that at least in death they are
free of the abuses suffered alive, and the FATHER will remember
them, and bring them back, the little baby's that never harmed
a soul, the innocent little lives, that HE will bring them
back and heal them!!! But until then at least the one's lost
to earthly life are safely sleeping until that day comes!
That's the only way that I can even continue on.. How HE has
given me the courage to bare all of this! What can we, you
and I do, to walk in the word, and help at least one of these
little children that are still here, gave to us to protect????
Any suggestions from you or anyone reading this is welcome!!!!
In your opinion, allowing a 'known' pedophile, most of whom
have not taken the suggestion of the company to 'do the right
thing' and turn yourselves in to pay the penalty of mans law,
do you think allowing those who have not truly repented, gave
lip service to remain in the company, to continue the non-responsible
position of going to a child's door, to teach, to sell,
to whatever, do you think that this is against the will of
the FATHER? Do you, in your opinion, feel that these 'known'
pedophiles have the blessing to do this from HIM? Since you
are a Witness, I would highly appreciate your insight!! And
especially any suggestions on how we, you and I, and all of
us that truly find this sickening can walk in the word and
do something! We are the earthly instruments of the FATHER
right? I know that since I am not a witness as far as you
are concerned or the org is concerned so I understand that
you may not consider me a spiritual, loving, person because
of it. But I am! I am truly afraid that if we all don't see
that HE is calling all of us to do HIS will regarding protecting
the children, then ... we just have to see that HE is using
us now to do something about this, as HE used Jesus to show
us the way, as HE used Jesus to know that HE is LOVE. HIS
spirit is calling us to do something!!! Right?? Something
more than just talking about it, and saying how it is bad.
It's also bad to sit on the fence post and do nothing. Right????
I just do not know what more I can do. bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:47:33
Comments
SLC- I agree with you that it may be are sometimes necessary
to comment on JW values and beliefs. The current policy on
protecting the anonymity of pedophiles and the refusal if
at all possible of victims seeking justice is the heart of
the issue. Bastardizing the scriptures is how that policy
was formed. It is beyond me why the JW society finds it so
hard to accept that these archaic views are not compatible
with any other societal views. That includes their own. The
statement by JR Brown is that child abuse is abhorred. However
he fails to see how the current beliefs protect the guilty
and punishes the victim of the crime. That in itself is abuse.
It is the misuse of scripture that is the stance of the WTS.
The type of propaganda currently being broadcast by the pro-JW
policy stance on protecting pedophiles is but yet another
example of the tactics that propagandists use. Just say that
this site is anti-JW enough times and a JW or a JW sympathetic
person will say AHA! I new it; Case closed. The propagandist
does not want someone like me (an outsider) reminding people
what I and others like me here are is “anti-pedophile” and,
more to the point against any type of “pedophile protection
programs.” It is that simple. It is senseless that anyone
would disagree with me. But the pro-JW policy side does. They
are wrong. Every time they post they explain my point. We
all, JW and not should be coming together here not tearing
at each other. I however will not budge. I will not give in,
and I will not go quietly. It may be that the pro-JW policy
group may stay on their side as well. Then we will fight.
But my shadow will be with the children and people who otherwise
have no voice.-SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:54:39
Comments
Hello. I guess I'll call myself JWD (JW Defender), although
I've been called many things from tasty toe, moron,
snot-nose, etc. Looking back at some of my posts, I regret
saying some of the things I said. I'm not retracting
what I said, just excusing myself. I tried to just look without
posting but that turned out to be an impossible task. The
natural tendency is to defend your beliefs. Anyway, as CJ
said, the facts speak for themselves. This site has degenerated
into a bash-for-all. The facts speak for themselves. So, for
posterity, I'll conclude with a recommendation for JW's
at this site: If you see a truck coming towards you, LOOK
OUT!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
14:51:13
Comments
Regarding - Hello. I guess I'll call myself JWD (JW
Defender), Hi Defender! I would also ask you, in the spirit
of getting back to the basic's of the issues here, any suggestions
from you on how we all can do our part in protecting innocent
lives, bodies, and spirits? Of course we all know that prayer
is the very first thing we need to do, and I'm sure most of
us here have. Most of us here have also came to the conclusion
that our prayers have been answered in the way that we now
have the spirit of love to do our parts in assisting the abused.
Any suggestions from you, any idea's to how you, I, CJ, all
of us, with the word behind us, can do our parts!!! :-) Nice
to meet you by the way! I am so glad that you chose the name
you have (out of all the others to choose from!, couldn't
see anyone calling them self, tasty toes! :-P Since you've
chosen the name JW DEFENDER, you are now a DEFENDER of the
JW children too! Right?! Makes me want to smile! You have
made my day with your last post! ty ty, now we can work together,
in spite of our differences and concentrate on protecting
the children!!!! bonnielyn!!! It truly is amazing where you
find blessings, if you look hard enough; they are just a post
away!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:11:16
Comments
To whom it may concern: I am writing to explain myself and
my husbands stance in regard to the "Divisions" being
caused in the Organization. The only "Divisions" that
we know of are those caused by the Governing Body. They have
blatantly disregarded their sheep on far to many occasions
for us to ever be comfortable worshipping among them again.
I could site many instances where they preferred "keeping
peace" instead of protection the innocent ones in the
congregation. My husband was raised by two abusive people
and the elders looked the other way. That is what causes divisions,
to know you've been abuses mentally and physically, but to
grow up and find that it's not isolated that they KNEW and
chose to do nothing. THAT IS WHAT CAUSES DIVISIONS blatant
disregard, having no love amongst yourselves because to have
love you would do something, anything to spare and innocent.
When a loved one comes to you crying telling you about bruises
and the pain, to blame them and to ignore their pain is the
dividing force. We understand to look at oneself in the mirror
and find that you are the reason must be hard, but to blame
someone and to go to the extent of disfellowshipping, reeks
so much of the world. Smoke and mirrors, look at the right
hand so we can't see the leavening in the left preparing to
ferment the whole. The Governing Body and those weak spineless
Elders that choose to do nothing is what has cause the Division
amongst this family. Choosing to blame Bill Bowen while disregarding
the real reason, is only going to cause the Society more pain
and embarrassment. Bill still chooses to worship, let him
examine yourselves as you would the scriptures. That is where
you'll find what is lacking in your heart of hearts. Sheila
and Christopher Madonia 807 NE 67th Place Gladstone, MO 64118
This is my letter I sent to Bill to present in his defense
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:11:51
Comments
okwho,s the wt ZOMBIE who,s said the silent lambs are running
a smear campaign amd loves the truth i mean the watchtower
so much he .saying b bowen should put on a clown suit . see
you got it backwards yout the one in the clown suit since
it seems you have been exposed to the wt lies. now on judgement
day ya,ll have no excuse .for being blind .so put on the orange
wig,pokadot overalls,and ronald mcdonald shoes,go in the field
and bare false witnesses in the name of god. even though you
think people are laughing at you with that watchtower in your
hand saying read this it,s the truth. in fact real christians
feel sorry for you and when they try to show you the facts
of the wt. and the real jesus. you just stand there and say
look at me the wt dressed me up and made me somebody the cong.
respects why just look i,m a wt clone I,M ZOMBIE THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!john
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:40:04
Comments
Bonnielyn, I am now going to make a confession to you. I am
currently serving as an elder here in a Kentucky congregation.
I am relatively young in years (35 to be axact) and have served
in 5 congregations already. A couple in Spanish in Tennessee
and 3 English here in Kentucky. As you know I have access
to all past files on disfellowshipping, disassciations, etc.
This would include any knowledge or revelations of Pedophiles.
I am telling you honestly when I say that in all the congregations
I have served I have never seeen or dealt with a single case.
I am in know way saying that there hasn't been in other congregations,
but what I am saying is that from the information I have gathered
from posts in this room and from Bill Bowens own comments
it make it seem like their is 2 pedophiles in every congregation.
I think that this is an unfair distorting of the facts. Oh
yes the facts are that there are pedophiles, but not to the
extent and broad based implications of the evilness of JW's
as a whole. My experience in the congregations that I have
served in has been enjoyable especially at seeing how the
friends are just trying to lead good lives and cope with this
system of things. Issues have been brought to light that will
influence me if I ever have to deal with an abuse victim.
Our elder body has discussed this and we all have the same
feelings on the matter, primary concern will be given to help
the abused. It is also their right to take the matter to police
we would not discourage that. However if the accused does
not admit guilt we can do nothing in a judicial way, though
this would give serious rise to any kind of resposibility
and would mandate being watched with a little more scrutiny.
I do not know if this is fair to the accused if no witnesses
can be provided to validate the claim. Thats all we can do
our hands would be tied, tied the same way they would be tied
in a court of law if the accuser expected to win a case when
it is one word pitted against the other with no callaborating
evidence or witnesses. No judge would rule favorably for the
accuser in this case. You would appreciate this being applied
to you if you were the accused. Regardless, if there is no
evidence to convict anyone or not counseling for the abused
and emotional support would be most appropriate. I sincerely
feel this and would let this guide me if I have have to deal
with a serious matter like this. Basically what I am trying
to tell you that there are alot of good people in the organization,
we offer alot of support for each other, but we also step
on each others toes, you had a bad experience, you felt it
wasn't handled properly and you left. You left scoured with
a view that the whole organization is corrupt and I sincerely
in my own free mind feel that this is not true. Especially
having served in so many congregations. There is alot of good
out there. I just wish you were her in our congregation so
you can see how we although imperfect, handle things as an
elder body. I can't help but think that if your situation
was dealt with differently maybe although hurt you would still
be with us. I am confident in Jehovah that he will take care
of things and that maybe this process is a way of removing
some of the impurities. But for me to leave what I know is
the truth especially in comparing other religions (which I
have done quite extensively before I became a witness) does
not solve anything. My hope is in Jehovah and please understand
my views as I am sensitive to yours.CJ
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:47:58
Comments
bonnie lyn it,s J_CHITO@msn.com to that jw your living the
masquerade as for the .10cents donations that what i give
zombies like you for 2 wt mags then i ask for change just
to make the point it only costs the wt 3.4cents and issue
to print paper ink electric,SLAVE LOBOR AN ALL!!!!your right
wt members arn,t bad people till you expose thier idle and
god the WATCHTOWER! jw your doing a great job telling all
here what you are . a fool read jn7:18 then then tell me what
the wt is . take off the rose colored glasses and high heel
shoes you can wear a lamp shade on your heAd and molest haLF
THE KIDS IN YOUR CIRCUIT FOR 20 YRS. AS LONG AS YOU SAY I
BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE WT SAYS AND THE KIDS DON,T HAVE 2 WITNESSES
IE MR. MOLEST-A-LOT PANDELO IN N.J.YOU WANT MORE. WHEN THE
WT TODAY CALLS OLD FALSE PROPHECY BIBLE TRUTH . THE WORD OF
JEHOVAH RIGHT THERE YOU SEE THE WT WILL TELL ANY LIE TO PROTECT
600% PROFIT ON EACH OF THE 24 MILLION MAGS SLAVE LAbor prints
each week heard of human rights the slaves at bethel have
none ps. bend over i know a brother who has a bone for you
!!!no witnesses mind you have fun .john
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:49:34
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:54:47
Comments
CJ- That was very eloquently written. I know you mean every
word that you wrote but I would warn people of what you are
really saying. I think that this 100 year old poem says alot.
The Spider and the Fly (A Fable) By Mary Howitt (1799-1888) "Will
you walk into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly; "'Tis
the prettiest little parlor that ever you did spy. The way
into my parlor is up a winding stair, And I have many pretty
things to show when you are there." "O no, no," said
the little fly, "to ask me is in vain, For who goes up
your winding stair can ne'er come down again." "I'm
sure you must be very weary, dear, with soaring up so high;
Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the spider to
the fly. "There are pretty curtains drawn around, the
sheets are fine and thin, And if you like to rest awhile,
I'll snugly tuck you in." "O no, no," said
the little fly, "for I've often heard it said, They never,
never wake again, who sleep upon your bed." Said the
cunning spider to the fly, "Dear friend, what shall I
do, To prove the warm affection I've always felt for you?
I have within my pantry good store of all that's nice; I'm
sure you're very welcome; will you please to take a slice?" "O
no, no," said the little fly, "kind sir, that cannot
be; I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to
see." "Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're
witty and you're wise, How handsome are your gauzy wings,
how brilliant are your eyes! I have a little looking-glass
upon my parlor shelf, If you'll step in one moment, dear,
you shall behold yourself." "I thank you, gentle
sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say,
And bidding you good-morning now, I'll call another day." The
spider turned him round about, and went into his den, For
well he knew the silly fly would soon be back again: So he
wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly, And set his table
ready to dine upon the fly. Then he came out to his door again,
and merrily did sing, "Come hither, hither, pretty fly,
with pearl and silver wing: Your robes are green and purple;
there's a crest upon your head; Your eyes are like the diamond
bright, but mine are dull as lead." Alas, alas! How very
soon this silly little fly, Hearing his wily flattering words,
came slowly flitting by With buzzing wings she hung aloft,
then near and nearer drew, Thinking only of her brilliant
eyes, and green and purple hue; Thinking only of her crested
head poor foolish little thing! At last, up jumped the cunning
spider, and fiercely held her fast. He dragged her up his
winding stair, into his dismal den, Within his little parlor;
but she ne'er came out again! And now dear little children,
who may this story read, To idle, silly, flattering words,
I pray you ne'er give heed; Unto an evil counselor close heart,
and ear, and eye, And take a lesson from this tale of the
Spider and the Fly.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:56:07
Comments
CJ... I was never a baptized JW; right now my mom is again
studying. I was raised to believe the truth and lived my whole
adult life feeling that I failed HIM by failing the org. What
got me, is when my mom started studying she asked if she can
go with her teacher door to door, OH, no says the teacher,
you can't do that, someone you know might open the door and
it would put us in a bad light! Okay, then I read your pr
man, Mr. Brown, publicly stating that the org allows and even
sends 'known' pedophiles door to door, and that they may not
send them to neighborhoods that know who they are. The SENDING
THEM are what I see is harmful! I understand about the smoking
thing, if we were discussing this in private or through email
I would love to share my theories with you about it, but this
is not the place to discuss that type of doctrine, excusing
away pedophiles by saying that there aren't as many as in
other religions, (not saying you said that) is in no way a
plausible excuse. And stating that there has to be two or
more witnesses to the abuse has to be some how changed in
view of who the victims are or were! If it was your child
or grandchild that came to you as their grandpa, could you
then tell them as an Elder that 'sorry, my hands are tied,
you have to come up with another witness, or more, or we have
to wait and let the accused abuse another child to have another
witness". ? Could you do that? Even if it's not of your
blood and flesh, just another jw child that you call their
parents brother and sister, If faced with this yourself, I
hope it never happens either, but if it does? Why not try
and get things as right as they can be now, before this issue
is at your door knocking? Thanks for the posts, means a lot
to me that you were willing to disclose yourself in this way!
It hasn't stated here on this site that their are two peds
in each congregation, it says that if the figure's are true
then it's on 'average' that it's two, could be one congregation
has 4 and yours is free, or it could be a congregation has
6 and that saves more congregations. Can you, if this is true,
be a JW and not want to do something, are not moved to do
something to help your fellow brothers and sisters? And their
children? Even if they are not in your congregation, they
are still yours! Right? I think that a lot of ppl here are
still so into the teachings as I am, If I'm not mistaken there
has been many times that I was taught by my grandma, who died
a devout witness by not accepting blood, and my mom, and the
teachers that I have studied with, that you have to look into
the beliefs, the works of all religions and if there is one
thing wrong, that is a red light to maybe that the religions
isn't the true one. I've done that all of my life, with the
trinity, with other things... and now I have nowhere to go..
But this isn't about me. I am just me. This is a place to
hopefully discuss how to with the help of the word, and the
courage, wisdom, and most importantly love, help and think
of the children, this site centers around the JW's that are
survivor's of abuse, the facts that even when the accused
is found guilty in the eye's of the law the congregations
flock to the guilty and forsake the survivor's. All of these
stories cannot be fabrications. Saying that would have to
be admitting that maybe all of the stories you have heard
that was written in the wt and awake, may have been all fabrications!
You still didn't answer my question, this is very important
to me, so please, just a yes or no if fine. Give me some hope
again that there is hope for me… If you needed a tutor
for your child, and you called a company that provided this,
and they sent out a tutor that had confessed to them that
he/she were a pedophile but promised the company that he/she
wouldn't do it again, would you still want that ‘known' pedophile
to come into your house around your child? Simple question.
Would you want a ‘known pedophile' to come knocking
on your door? The PR man Brown stated in the papers that this
is allowed, along with another witness of course, but even
with another tutor there, would you want a ‘known pedophile' into
your home around your child, around even you for that matter?
You don't have to have ever been faced with that to
know how to answer, do you? I understand that it is the obligation
and the joy for fellow brothers to be able to forgive a repentant
sinner. Do you feel that this is a sin that can be forgiven
with just a promise not to do it again? And how many times
and children have to be abused before you're not obligated
to forgive? 7, or 77, or even 777?! Now, isn't that
an interesting number? I did not even realize what that number
represents, until I saw it typed… I mean, yes I knew
what it is, but did not put it in for that reason, just popped
out at me when I saw it! Humbling! You have to put yourself
in the child's shoes. Think with a child's heart.
Will you answer? And if you can put yourself in the child's
shoes, as an Elder, could you try to put yourself in an innocent
Elder's shoes, one who WAS faced with this, one who
tried to help the child and was stone walled with ‘wait
on Jehovah' not to change the subject but when I begged
to be baptized and was told no cause I smoked, when I said
that I've prayed and am waiting on Jehovah to take it
away from me, cause I didn't have the will power on
my own, my teacher sure didn't understand that, and
I sure didn't get to proclaim my Love and TRUST that
Jehovah was there and I wanted to dedicate my life to pleasing
HIM, maybe if I was allowed to publicly proclaim this LOVE
AND FAITH I could have been able to quit smoking! Catch twenty-two.
Anyway, Thanks again for sharing part of your real self with
me and us here. If you can't feel that you can answer
my question(s) then I will understand. After all, we are supposed
to understand right!! With love bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:58:30
Comments
The Mary Howitt poem was posted by-SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:02:14
Comments
CJ: I realize your letter wasn't written to me but I'd
like to add a few thoughts of my own. I have been in the organization
for 27 years and it was my whole way of life. My first congregation
was in Kansas. My friend in Liberal KS had three children
and her husband sexually abused the two girls, but that was
before the society tried to cover things up (around 1979-1980)
and so he went to prison. Those girls' lives were ruined
as time has clearly shown. Again in Kansas but different congregation
my other friend had five children, girls and boys, and her
baptized husband and his brother abused them in many sick
ways. He wasn't charged with anything but he was disfellowshipped.
Those kid's lives were ruined as time has clearly shown.
Now Texas congregations and I know of two horrible molesters.
First one raped little girls in the hall but was not DF'd
and he went on a Bible Study with his wife and molested the
householder's two little girls. He got ten years. Second
brother raped his own daughter when his wife was trying to
divorce him for abuse. He denied the charge but a few years
later admitted it. He was never punished or df'd. Totally
destroyed the daughter's life. Still Texas, but very
dear friends 14 yr old daughter was raped. Silly little girl
let a 19 yr old friend climb into her window as he had moved
away and surprised her by coming to town one evening. Family
was asked to cover up the incident; daughter is in prison
on drug abuse charges now. Two more from Texas: In my own
congregation an older teenager rapes the little girl he was
baby sitting and a second teenager rapes the four year old
sister of his friend. I don't have an explanation for
what I know but these stories are true and four of the guys
have police records now. I would like very much to discuss
a federal law regarding admissible evidence in Child Abuse
cases also but this is very long. My name is Nan
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:02
Comments
Hi CJ: Two primary thoughts I want to address to you as an
elder, and then after that, a few questions and direct thoughts,
that I think should make you think more about this situation
you speak of. I'm an "older man" in physical years.
So, I speak from experience...I served too as an elder for
many years, in many different congregations. **********EXTREMELY
IMPORTANT: (1) Do you, as an elder, concur with the disfellowshipment
of BILL BOWENS, JOE ANDERSON, BARBARA ANDERSON, given the
facts you have at hand? If so, what would be the scriptural
grounds?************(2) Why can't the 2 "witness" Rule
in child abuse cases be understood to include (a) the child
abused and (b) the medical doctor (objective party) who examines
child and offers professional opinion and medical "evidence"?
(Evidence would include: tangible evidences of abuse [bruises,
facial marks, so on] or direct evidence of sexual violation;
doctor determines when making "examination", also
in physical abuse cases violence, things like x-rays, lab
reports, specific/medical tests results to determine abuse,
other medical evidence, doctors written opinion, (maybe even
a second opinion from another doctor who examines, etc.)******Shouldn't
this type of "evidence" suffice and be in keeping
with the scriptural two-witness rule, thus fulfilling the
scriptural obligation of 1 Timothy 5:19? This same "evidence",
medical evidence is used throughout the world and stands up
in the "court of law" to convict accused rapists
and child molesters, does it not? **********Wouldn't this "adjustment" of
viewpoint, on the part of discerning "elders", show
a "bringing in of a heart of wisdom". Especially
on the part of the Governing Body's if they untied the hands
of the elders, in such cases, and allowed this procedure for
the benefit of the elders facing difficult circumstances in
judging a case of child abuse within the congregation? ( See
Psalms 90:12.) Your opinion as an elder, please? *******Further
as an "elder", would you say these men of the Governing
Body really discerning spiritual men, full of wisdom, and
directed by God's Holy Spirit? Where is the "wisdom" among
them? Or, does it make more sense to you as an "elder",
for the Governing Body to attack other elders like BILL BOWENS
and JOE ANDERSON, and disfellowship them for trying to address
such a powerful issue, especially in view of what the Catholics
are going through? Do we see wisdom displayed on the Governing
Body, or brutality? Which approach makes more sense, to you?
And what about the Governing Body's timing in handling these
affairs? Did they as a body of elders, bring "glory to
God", in the way THEY have handled this NEWS-MEDIA sensitive
matter? Remember, it was in the news with the Catholics LONG
BEFORE the JWs were the news and "talk of the town",
right? So, do you think the Governing Body showed real wisdom,
in the way they handled this whole affair? What's your opinion,
as an elder?*************Also, what about other "witnesses" that
can be used in Child Abuse cases: professional therapists
to be called in and interviewed, along with child psychologists,
and trained personnel with experience with deviant pedophiles
(which most JW elders DON'T KNOW is a mental disorder, rarely
if ever cured, according to studies on the subject. But how
many elders know this?).************Why are we keeping the
Civil Authorities out of the scene? Child Abuse is a crime,
isn't it? Are we being taught by the Governing Body to "obey
CAESAR"? (Romans 13:1,2) Why have they told so many "elders" and
traveling overseers, when child abuse cases surface, NOT to
go to the police and report it? Why? ******Also, why is the
Governing Body so opposed to soliciting the professional help
of outsiders who are EXPERTS in the field of Child Abuse,
when Child Abuse cases occur with the JW community? ***********Are
the bodies of elders you are a part of and acquainted with,
TRAINED PROFESSIONALS in this field.***********I served alongside
an elder for years...thought he was the greatest elder on
earth...now he is in PRISON for violating countless children!
True story. **********You are 35 years old...lots more to
learn about WT policy and being an elder. I assure you!********
J.B. (Elder)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:26:03
Comments
PLEASE READ THIS: My brother and I were abused when we were
10 & 11, respectively by an elders son years ago. I recall
the horror on my mothers face when we told he of the incident.
I also recall the big STINK my parents made with this brother.
I've been in other situations that involved an elder.
Although he did not actually molest me, he tried. That brother
was disfellowhipped, not as a direct result of his actions
towards me (since I never formally accused him) but he was
eventually busted with some other unfortunate young kid. I
have been through a lot in my life. It's been said a
very interesting book can be written based on my life. I have
suffered permanent scars that haunt me to this very day. As
a matter of fact, recently I burst out crying and my wife
panicked. When I told her I had been abused (she didn't
know), we both cried. In summary, it has affected my life.
It's hard to forget a bad experience. I've grown
up since, and currently am doing well, by this world's
standards. I have a high profile job that keeps me employed,
a beautiful wife, beautiful kids, beautiful home, etc., etc.,
made many friends, and have what I consider a great relationship
with our creator. I am glad I found this site. Before you
welcome me, and tell me you love me, I'd like to share
something with you. I am a happy JW. And guess what? My wife
was abused by her grandmother (wordly). She too is a happy
JW. Our point? First, not all abused “silentlambs” as
you call us, YES US, leave the organization and embark on
a smear campaign as a full time vocation. Second, it proves
that a person can be abused by a either a JW or “wordly” person,
and still be a JW. For the record, I am very upset by all
that's going on, with Dateline, etc. etc. I happen to
be a survivor of abuse. I object to all the negativity and
insensitivity that is consistently displayed by JW detractors.
Are you going to bash me for my current beliefs? Will you
cast me aside? I am so disgusted. What would you say to me
if I showed up to one of your rallies? Would you invite me
to speak? Why not? I was abused. I suffer psychological problems.
Will you abuse me verbally, now that I have shared that I
am a JW? Am I evil? Am I brainwashed? Am I stupid? Am I a
moron? Am I a zombie? Am I subjected to evil men who do evil
things, who have some kind of agenda to take over the world?
Am I that stupid that I can't see what's going
on? Not all abused JW's take you road you have taken,
for your information. I fully expect to be condemned by all
who post to this site, in SPITE of the fact that I myself
am a victim. Shame on you all. But I am NOT a silentlamb.
I have a voice, and I choose to use it as I wish, no one has
done that for me, and no one is forcing me. I will continue
to proclaim the Kingdom of Jehovah door to door, as Jesus
instructed his followers to do, until they drag me away in
chains if you all ever accomplish your evil goal. I am not
brainwashed as you claim I am. This is a conscious decision
made by me, and me alone. I am a Jehovah's Witness,
and proud to be one.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:55:04
Comments
This is JESIKA THOMAN-------------- All I do right now is
cry. For those who don't know who I am, I am a survivor of
sexual abuse and was at the press conference in Minnesota
with Heidi Meyer and Bill Bowen. I live in Dallas,Tx and flew
there within days of the conference. I used to be here everyday,
and posted everyday. But now, as I am writing this, I am trying
to see the screen through my tears, as to what this site has
turned into. I do not feel if I was having a hard time or
flashbacks that I could come here for support. Only to hear
and see the same hate and anger I can see in myself(anger--not
hate--more hurt than anything) and the family that won't have
anything to do with the topic I need to talk about. My heart
and soul is in pain and I don't feel I can talk to anyone
here about it. It has changed soooooooooooooooooo much here.
I wish I would have never let a day go by so I could have
stopped it,but now that I need you guys, I feel I am amoung
strangers--full of anger--and I don't need that right now.
I leave you with a hurt heart and tears in my eyes---I need
you guys!!! I just don't feel the field is the same here.That
is why I expressed myself the way I did on the 8th. I may
come back, when it goes back to what it should be.
VERY HURT & NEEDING A SHOULDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jesika Thoman,Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:55:30
Comments
Still crying!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:08
Comments
hi to all the lambs out there. my name is Rich, i'm an active
JW and i've just read 'crisis of conscience'. its been said
that it was a 'banned' book and that it shouldnt be read.
well i'll make my own mind up on what i'll read and what i
wont. if this book was merely lies, then what does the society
fear from lies? it seems to me they fear the truth that is
told in books like these. theres a lot of people who are now
starting to question and have doubts about the FDS and rightly
so. i was baptised 2 years ago and i was suspicious of the
society then and they've done nothing to make me think any
different, and now i've had to learn the truth from other
people. i have posted comment on this site before under 'a
concerned JW' because of paranoia, amazing isnt it, how the
society can affect me like this. well im not gona be worried
about what they think anymore.********* ive learned that the
majority of JWs seem to be on what i can only describe as
'auto pilot'. they're too busy concerned about getting there
reports in and attending meetings and their pre-studies that
their true spiritual self becomes dormant, thinking that what
they do is the most important thing and as long as they do
what the society keeps drilling into them as to what they
should do then thats ok. well i'll tell i dont pre-study ever,
if i miss a meeting there's no big deal. if i put a report
in late, who do i hurt? as long as i'm developing my relationship
with God through Christ by studying Gods word, thats the important
thing. i've brought out points in meetings that nobody else
would have brought because the FDS never pointed to them scriptures
in the first place. what possible benifit do i get from answering
aquestion when we've already just read the answer? it just
seems to be a way of conditioning the mind to accept what
the FDS says and to obey what they say.******** somone mentioned
before about not critising the society etc and that this site
is just for cases of abuse. well the problem of covering up
abuse isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole
attitude thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma.
when i was studying i was told that this wasnt a 'religon'.
from what i've learned it is. they say theres no rules, but
there is. there seems to be more rules than any other org
i've known. people expect you to dress in a suit and have
a side parting. well i wont wear a suit and i've got a skinhead,
and i really couldnt care less what others think. i dont attend
meeting to try and impress anyone and i have the right to
be an individual. all these sorts of things the society try
to opress. well i think for myself. i wont give my mind away.
i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained conscience.
if JWs want to do different then thats up to them, i wont
try to change their way of doing things, and i expect others
not to try and change me.****** i was disgusted by that GB
member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he just
summed up their intire attitude by what he said. i told my
mom that night i watched it that i considered myself as not
being part of the society, only the congregation. i wont be
attending anymore conventions and assemblies, where we get
mind-controled to obey the FDS's every command. some JW's
believe that the society will go through at armageddon, and
not sur they'll survive the great tribulation. my thoughts
and prayers got to Bill and his family and all those who have
been betrayed by the society.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:26:23
Comments
Regarding - PLEASE READ THIS: I did read your post and thank
you for sharing it with all of us. You were truly blessed
to not have your faith destroyed by the abuse done to you.
The lambs here were not so lucky. When they sought the care
of the org they were hushed, kept quiet with threats of being
kicked out and forsaken by HIM! There are many stories here
that proclaim, not the dissension of the Witnesses but the
reformation! So many other things have been ‘put in
the kiln' to make pure, why not the now policies on
this issue? Why kick out those who want to keep the children
safe? How can the ones who have made this public be able to
go back and rejoin the org when the policies are still the
same? Yes, they can be repentant but for exactly what??? For
wanting to keep future children within the org safe and sound?
For being put in the position that the only way they could
see to get things accomplished was to make the public aware
of it? The org has certainly taken every opportunity to put
the Catholics up to the spotlight. To be examined and as proof
that they are not the true religion. Oh, what a blessing and
joy to know that you are in the true faith when you see the
suffering the poor Catholic children suffer at the hands of
the very ones who's obligation within their religion
to keep their spirits intact! Speak up and shout all ye of
faith! As you were abused, you then probably feel as I do,
the feelings that only an abused can feel, Do you? Do you
feel an understanding for other abused? Do you feel a desire
to help a child from any abuse? Even, if it is not a child
that you personally know? Do you agree with the policies of
the Organization? Knowing what you know, how hard it is to
heal, it broke my heart to hear that you broke down and cried
recently, but it was good that you were then able to tell
your wife, so she could be there for you! Knowing though how
it feels to be abused, would you want to see that burden on
any other child? If there was something that you could do,
and there is always something, would you do it? If it meant
going against the teachings of the org, would you still do
it, if it will save just one child from what you suffered.
Some, as it seems maybe you can live normal lives, while others
cannot. Some may not have the same support that you had from
your parents, the same support as you had with your brother
given that you shared the same experience and you may have
been able to gain strength from that, as some of the lambs
have gained strength in hearing that they are not alone in
their suffering. I am not going to say that I agree with some
of the ways things are being done. I am not going to say that
I agree with all of the posts here. I am only saying lets
all, in our own understanding of ‘how to survive' strive
to do what we are here to do, proclaiming the GLORY of HIM
is part of it. Protecting innocent babies and assisting the
ones whose spirits are broken along with their bodies is also
an important part too. Isn't it? Isn't it our
obligation to help one another with the spirit of love and
understanding, and with courage to know that although we are
ALL not perfect, we can perfectly love ALL? bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:28:11
Comments
I am sorry you feel that way Jesika. I still admire you and
all YOU stand for. I wish that people could unstand that I
am not against any religion or any indivdual per se. I belive
in the right to choose your own path. I do however have distain
for 1/2 truths and outright lies. I hate crimes against children
and violence in domestic issues. My point in the "propaganda
issues" (which most of us are guilty of at one time or
another) is when you have knowlege of what is going on then
you don't have to get mad. You can call them on it and they
can "fight fair" or "head to the sidelines." I
wish that everyone would play by those rules. We would have
a better world. You would not belive how beat up I get in
Sociology classes when I refuse to play into the "mind-games." All "WE
and YOU" have to do is say "No I won't be silent" one
more time than they say "Yes you will." This is
an issue where one group belives they have an exlusive channel
to god. Just like the other religions that have the same belife.
I however do not have their advantage. I do not belive that
I am superior to other people. Now here is a request. GO!
and get the Jewel CD I suggested. And then go get a Starbucks
blended drink. and chill. Be happy, you are doing a good thing
here. Everyone on both sides will benifit in the end. You
will see. :-)Sequia
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:35:09
Comments
Jesika Thoman! I am so sorry, I had hoped that my posts today
were going to help to get things back on track. If any of
my posts hurt you please forgive me!!!!! I never meant to
harm anyone. Please don't cry!! again forgive me, I have meant
to only help and if I've harmed then I am truly sorry! bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:06:05
Comments
see I,M SO GLAD THE JW DEFENDER HAS SEEN Alittle light i thing
he,s going for jesus he wants it in time he might see all
the light prov. 4:18 see how easy it is to take gods word
out of the daRK!!!!IT SEEMS JWD LEARNED SO MUCH HERE FROM
ALL THE DIFFERENT LOVERS OF THE TRUE CREATOR HERE WHEN YOU
SEARCH AND ASK THE HOLY SPRIT COMES. KEEP SEARCHING IN YOUR
HEART JESUS WILL LEAD YOU JN 6:66-69 14:6 ETC,ETC,ETC.ETCLET
GOD BR TRUE ALL MEN LAIRS.IE BROOKLYN ROM3:4 MAT15:9ETC. ETC
JOHN
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:10:52
Comments
To the Elder CJ: I appreciated your post - calm, rational
etc...I would like you to read the Abused Lambs stories, and
all the stories that have been posted in the last couple months.
There is a valid concern for what happens to these children
once they speak out. It is wonderful that the congregations
you have been involved have not had these problems. Once an
event like sexual child abuse happens in a family or a congregation
nothing is every the same after that. It ruins families and
it absolutely ruins congregations. Once a congregation is
contaminated this way, it is very hard to undo - this is why
it is so vital that there is zero tolerance. ***********You
can call me a liar, say it doesn't count because I am not
an elder - but in California, there were three different congregations,
in three different parts of the state and 7 children (that
I know of) were sexual molested by 2 different elders, and
one MS, none were df'd or lost position. The one mother who
went to the police - was shunned, dropped and not supported.
Lost her children to foster care due to her instability which
was in part due to the neglect of her congregation to support
her.****************** ************************ Witness children
are taught not to lie. If a child is taught not to lie and
hears day in and day out that the father of the lie is Satan
- I would believe that child if they told me someone did something
bad to them.*******Anyway, I would like you to read the stories
after stories. I also would like you to put yourself in the
shoes of a father/mother or the child who was up against this
two witness policy, in a time of need of support and help
and understanding.**************It is hard to understand someone
elses different experience - it can seem like some big drama,
or a lie.************* ****************** One mother didn't
press charges because she believed that Jehovah would work
it out and that it would bring shame upon Jehovah. In congregations
where everyone is related by marriage and blood it is very
difficult to get the necessary support from the congregation.
If all your friends are witnesses and they won't rock the
boat- you have to fend for yourself. It is lonely, scary,
and this particular woman thought it was just a test of her
faith to remain silent and let Jehovah work it out. ************Anyway,
I believe that your experience as an elder and having access
to records has proved no pedophiles within the congregations
that you have attended. I would like you to believe now, that
others have had a different experience that is just as true
and believable as yours.*********MY guess is that you yourself
would have taken the same position as Bill Bowen if you had
been in his position.***********Would you take pride in being
an Elder if a fellow elder serving with you shoulder to shoulder
as an equal was a known child molestor? It would make you
re-think everything you cherished and was proud of in being
an elder and one of Jehovah's witnesses. I would like to hear
what you "feel"about the stories after you have
read them and put yourself as an elder in the position of
being a man of integrity and a lover of Jehovah- what would
you do????? Claudine/soapbox
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:13:57
Comments
Dear Proud JW: I'd like to tell you a little story.
When I was a young girl I was grabbed and fondled by a very
popular man in my community. I escaped his clutches and never
got that close to him again and I never told anyone. Recently
I learned that my younger sister was also fondled by this
man and she also stayed away thereafter and never told. Now
I have learned that a friend of mine was raped repeatedly
by this man and it very much messed up her life. Should I
have told and saved the other girls? Yes, but I was just a
dumb kid and so I forgive myself. Should you have told and
saved the other boy or boys? That's yours to decide
but what if you had and no one believed you? What if you and
the other boy went together to the elders and still your testimony
was disallowed? What if (as has happened so often in the stories
on the Silentlambs website) the children did tell. They and
their parents tried to seek justice but Society's rules
protected the Pedophile and allowed to continue to destroy
other children's lives. Up to seventeen children before
Fitzwater was stopped. What if I had told and my parents had
taken both of us little girls to the police and the police
had denied us justice? Would you consider it wrong of me to
try to change the law of the land? If this happened in the
Catholic Church would you think it wrong to ask for accountability?
Children are abused under many circumstances but this site
is about what happens after the fact. Now if you have read
the stories of the abused children and not understood that
this site was about changing policies and about justice for
victims you must have missed something.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:24:09
Comments
Nan, I would be very interested in the federal law you spoke
about! Thank you for helping me make my point about the 'average
thing' knowing that you are aware of more than two pedophiles
in one congregation was a great help! I think that the statement
made on the home page here was misunderstood and that helped
clear it up. I am also interested in knowing if there is a
Federal law regarding allowing ‘known pedophiles' to
go to peoples home, for any reason, they can't have
a ‘privilege' to do so just because they are in
a religion, I wouldn't think. And as far as having to
wait until something occurred as SLC mentioned, I sure hope
not, then it's to late! Better to stop the cart before
it goes over the mountain than trying to pull it back up after!
If something does have to occur first, my argument is that
it has! The act of allowing and sending the “going to
a child's home a ‘known pedophile', is putting
children in harms way! If they are allowed to do this it should
be a law then that they have to tell the person at the door
just what they are and give that person the choice of accepting
them into their homes! I don't see that happening. I
don't give two hoots care that they go with another
witness! And I can forgive anyone anything, it's who
I have to be, but I still would have to protect the children!
If the org can do this then a school can hire teachers that
say “hey I'm a perv but I won't do it if
you hire me I promise”! And if I'm not mistaken,
even pedophiles that have served their time are still kept
away from children, or are supposed to stay away from them!
bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:32:46
Comments
SEQ! Great poem! A lot of 'food for thought' You should send
it to Mr. Bowen thru email, he may not be able to view the
guest book. Great poem! ty BLM
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:32:56
Comments
To CJ. I tell you the truth CJ. I saw and heard many like
you in so called Christian Congregations of Jehovah's witness.
You are very polished with your words but it is just the same.
You are not truthful. You know what I mean? RMK
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:42:49
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:46:20
Comments
Dear Bonnielynn: This probably isn't what you were looking
for. This has more to do with that crazy statement “You
wouldn't want to be falsely accused” The WTS and
elders have made it seem that FALSE ACCUSATIONS are common.
This is NOT TRUE. The US governments statistics show that
Proven False accusations happen less than .01% of the time.
However, 50% of sexual abuse claims are unsubstantiated. Are
these claims therefore FALSE? . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unsubstantiated is unproven,
uncorroborated, unsupported or charges that are not actionable
for one reason or another. That does not mean the charges
are false. In fact 34% of charges are never brought before
a jury because the victim is too young to testify. . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . Much discussion has been given that child
molesters do not have two witnesses and with Judicial Committees
or in a court of law people are innocent until proven guilty.
A shouting match of he said she said is not a convicting case.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . Remember Mr. Alva (Samantha Runnion's murderer)
had been previously charged with sexual assault of his girl
friends daughters. The charges were not substantiated, however,
nor were they false. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It is because
of the difficulty of proving sexual assault charges based
on the testimony of one witnesses that new Federal Rules of
Evidence were adopted in 1995. Basically the law allows a
previous CHARGE (not a conviction) of sexual assault to be
introduced as evidence in a court case. . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rules 413 and 414 specifically
provide that in any case in which the defendant is accused
of sexual assault or molestation, the defendant's commission
of any other similar offenses is admissible "for its
bearing on any matter to which it is relevant." Rule
415 specifically extends the rule to any civil cases arising
out of sexual assault or molestation. . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The new rules will supersede
in sex offense cases the restrictive aspects of Federal Rule
of Evidence 404(b). In contrast to Rule 404(b)'s general prohibition
of evidence of character or propensity, the new rules for
sex offense cases authorize admission and consideration of
evidence of an uncharged offense for its bearing "on
any matter to which it is relevant." This includes the
defendant's propensity to commit sexual assault or child molestation
offenses, and assessment of the probability or improbability
that the defendant has been falsely or mistakenly accused
of such an offense. Why is this type of evidence allowed in
sexual abuse cases? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In support of the new
rules, advocates argued that a history of similar acts in
child molestation cases, for example, tends to be probative
because it demonstrates an unusual disposition that does not
exist in ordinary people. In addition, the difficulties proving
cases of child sexual abuse were cited to Congress.(Source
http://www.smith-lawfirm.com/Rule415.html
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:48:22
Comments
TO JOHN FROM THE BRONX: you need to knock it off! None of
us here are into being crude, not in words or thought. You
are welcomed here if you want to discuss calmly, without name
calling or being crude how you "feel." This web
site is NOT about hating the WTS - there are more appropriate
places for that which I don't visit myself. Silentlambs is
for the sexually abused - those who support them emotionally
and spiritually. Most of us do not have the desire to confront
JW's - but we do have the desire to protect and help those
who want it.PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF. You are being offensive and
you are hurting the purpose of this web site. We are commanded
to not return evil for evil. No one here advocates evil here.
We want justice served with mercy. Bill Bowen has carefully
chosen his words and actions so as not to bring "just" reproach
upon the Silentlambs or himself. PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF! I know
you are angry - but it isn't useful to us here. This isn't
about ruining the WTS society, but is about protecting children.
Different focus. I will personally ask the webmaster to remove
your posts if you continue to be crude and offensive. Soapbox!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:49:11
Comments
Bonnielyn: I hope that last post showed the importance of
reporting ALL INCIDENTS of sexual assault. Even if the evidence
is unsubstantiated it can be admitted in court later to convict
a molester. . . . . . . . . . . I would like to discuss a
few points from the current Department of Justices Statistics.
The report is entitled Sexual Assault of Young Children as
Reported to Law Enforcement: Victim, Incident, and Offender
Characteristics. _ I believe this report is best hard evidence
available. The introduction of the report states: To law enforcement
and the public, sexual assaults, and especially the sexual
assaults of young children are a major social concern. While
a few highly publicized incidents are engraved in the publics
consciousness, there is little empirically based information
on these crimes. Until recently, law enforcement and policymakers
had few hard facts on which to base their response to these
crimes. After reading the facts below I am sure you will agree
that the conviction rate for sexual assault is dismal. Probability
of arrest and clearance The NIBRS (FBIs National Incident-Based
Reporting System)data indicate that an arrest was made in
27% of all sexual assault victimizations. Assaults against
the youngest victims were the least likely of juvenile victimizations
to result in arrest. An offender was arrested in just 19%
of the sexual assaults of children under age 6, compared to
33% of victims ages 6 through 11, and 32% of victims ages
12 through 17. (Source http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/saycrle.pdf
An arrest is not a conviction so all told the numbers are
pretty dismal for the VICTIMS not for the accused.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
21:11:06
Comments
***Jesika, my dear neice...please hang in there girl. I have
read these posts you describe, and I can truly understand
why you are so upset. I agree completely that the anger and
hated expressed by many have done nothing for the cause. Keep
in mind, honey, that this site is public domain and anyone
and everyone has the right to express whatever they feel whether
we like it, agree with it, disagree, or simply shake our heads
at their stupidity. Personally, I was thrilled....to see that
admitted Elders are here posting messages, however ironic!
Considering that congregation "pions" would be df'd
in a heartbeat for accessing this site, amongst others. To
the Elders here......welcome. I am very happy that you are
here, reading all these posts, reading the horror stories
of all of us that have been through hell within the Org. Although
this site was created for the abused/molested/raped children,
I can understand why topics of doctrine have been raised here,
although I'm not the least bit interested in seeing the Daily
Text amongst other things posted here. If I was interested
in seeing that, I know where to get it. Brother Elder, considering
the fact that you were willing to access this site which is
considered a big no-no, post messages here too, it seems to
me that you are somewhat different than most elders. All of
the elders I've known have all been "hardcore",
unwilling to hear another side other than their own preconceived
notions. I applaud you for coming here. I would like to recommend
something to you, just for your own enlightenment. All my
life, growing up in the Org, there were regular talks in which
the phrase "Make sure of all things" was used. Other
phrases, which escape me right now, were used as well to explain
that each of us have the personal responsibility to be absolutely
sure and convinced that what we believe is really the Truth.
I always found it interesting that it was always applied to
non-witnesses or those just studying. I took it further; I
took it to heart and decided that I needed to know for myself
if what I was being taught my entire life (I'm now 42) was
really the Truth. Since many references are made in magazines
and books to sources for material by those who are not/were
not Witnesses, I figured....why can't I do the same thing?
Why can't I research doctrine, read material/books written
by those who are not Witnesses, just like the Org does? During
my search, I stumbled quite by accident upon a book written
by a former Governing Body member, yes....Ray Franz. I figured,
who else but a former GB member could give me some insight
into some subjects, and insight into the inner workings of
the GB, who controls and dictates every thought process, belief,
and all actions within the Org. I read that book from cover
to cover, and I've also read his new, updated 4th Edition
of the same title. Brother Elder, that is a book every Witness
should read and "let the reader use discernment".
If you feel comfortable accessing this site, then I would
think you'd also be open to reading details of the GB, how
decisions are made about every single thing pertaining to
Witness beliefs, doctrines, etc and give yourself the opportunity
to read information NO Elder, MS, or publisher is supposed
to see. Is it any wonder why the GB "banned" that
book? His book can be found at www.freeminds.org I would personally
love to hear your comments once you've read it. Reader use
their own discernment. Make sure of all......things. Linda
Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:52
Comments
Appeared in Awake! October 8, 1993 ///// Time noted that this
conspiracy is crumbling at last. Why? In a word, education.
It is as Asiaweek magazine put it: "All experts agree
that the best defence against child abuse is public awareness." To
defend their children, parents must understand the realities
of the threat. Don't be left in the dark by misconceptions
that protect child abusers and not children.//// Be sure,
for example, to forestall any attempt by an abuser to create
a secret pact. Children should know that it is never all right
for an adult to ask them to keep a secret from either parent.
Reassure them that it is always proper for them to tell—even
if they had promised not to. (Compare Numbers 30:12, 16.)
Some abusers blackmail the child if they know that the child
has disobeyed some family rule. "I won't tell on you
if you won't tell on me" is the message. So children
should know that they will never get in trouble for telling—even
under these circumstances. It is safe to tell.//// Make sure
you get to know well any adults or older youths who are close
to your children,///// Listen to the Children!///// IN BRITISH
COLUMBIA, Canada, a recent study examined the careers of 30
child molesters. The results were chilling. The 30 individuals
had, between them, abused 2,099 children. Fully half of them
held positions of trust—teachers, ministers, administrators,
and child-care workers. One molester, a 50-year-old dentist,
had abused nearly 500 children over a 26-year period./////
However, The Globe and Mail of Toronto notes: "In 80
per cent of cases, one or more sectors of the community (including
friends or colleagues of the offender, families of victims,
other children, some victims) denied or minimized the abuse." Not
surprisingly, "the report suggests that denial and disbelief
allow abuse to continue."///// Some of the victims had
told on the abusers. However, "parents of young victims
were unwilling to accept what their children were telling
them," The Globe and Mail quotes the report as saying.
Similarly, a government official in Germany recently cited
a report that child victims of sexual abuse have to approach
adults with their story as many as seven times before they
are believed.////// ." ////Isolation////, ////rigidity///,
and ///obsessive secrecy///—these unhealthy, unscriptural
attitudes are trademarks of the abusive!!!!!!! In the meantime
we must do all we can to protect our children. They are so
precious! Most parents will readily put their own safety at
risk in order to protect their little children. (Compare John
15:13.) If we don't protect our children, the consequences
can be horrible. If we do, we give them a wonderful gift—a
childhood that feels innocent and free from calamity. They
can feel just as the psalmist did, who wrote: "I will
say to Jehovah: 'You are my refuge and my stronghold, my God,
in whom I will trust.'"—Psalm 91:2//// Thank you
again wt website! ty ty ty for writing suce a powerful work!
I especially liked, ." //////////////////////Isolation,
rigidity, and obsessive secrecy—these unhealthy, unscriptural
attitudes are trademarks of the abusive /////////// ARE NOT
THE ORG ITSELF THEN IN THIS CLASS? CLASS OF THE ISOLATING,
RIGIDITY, AND OBSESSIVE SECRECY- AND ARE NOT THEY THEM SELVES
CALLING THIS UNHEALTHY? UNSCRIPTUAL ATTITUDES?AND TRADMARKS
OF THE ABUSIVE?????? me
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:42
Comments
To the ex-elder who responded to the current elder in KY:
When the doctor collects all the evidence from the abused
child, If YOU don't alert the police, THEY will. The
questions and arguments you present sound so ridiculous. A
room in the back of the Kingdom Hall is probably not the place
you want evidence to be stored or displayed. Seems to me you
are more worried about making sure criminals don't get
privileges than about making sure they are accountable in
the eyes of our legal system. Case closed.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
01:19:08
Comments
I AM AN EX JEHOVAHS WITNESS. I WAS BORN INTO THE RELIGION.
I LEFT WHEN I WAS 18 YEARS OLD. I NEVER REALLY BELIEVED IN
THE TEACHINGS AND MOST OF THE TIME I FELT GUILTY BECAUSE I
WAS MADE TO FEEL THAT WAY..LIKE I WASN'T WORTHY. MY MOTHER
WAS DISFFELLOWSHIPPED IN 91 AND I NEW WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF
ME AND THERE WAS NO WAY I WAS GIVING UP MY MOTHER ...I LEFT
AND HAVE BEEN HAPPY EVER SINCE ,.,
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
01:20:04
Comments
CZYKATT@AOL.COM
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:09:16
Comments
Eric Henri, Who associates with the Orleans West Congregation
In Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Is a repeated sexual predator
and Pediphile, but he all married up now!! good front Eric.
at the very least he should be forced to have a letter in
his record file, but the society once again is failing to
protect the public and the congregation from this type of
SCUM. All I can hope is people see this and will want answers.
ME Ottawa, Canada
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:33:56
Comments
http://dailymotivator.com/memberflash/rightnow.html I posted
this back in May when things were a little tense. I hope that
it eases some frustrations.-SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:44:49
Comments
Hey Bill df or not you are still nr 1. Nordic
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
07:21:26
Comments
I am a person that was molested and raped for 9 yrs and i
am so sick and tired of people defending the damm JW'S who
did this. What the hell is wrong with you you have a screw
lose in that brain of yours? You would think people wanna
protect children BUT NO read yesterdays NEWS HEADLINE across
our nation ANOTHER SEX RING busted EVEN PARENTS were found
to b molesting these kids SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN OUR WORLD
THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE IN SIDE KH DONT DO MORE
THEN WHAT THEIR DOING WITH THESE what ever you wanna call
a pervert PERVERTS should NOT BE GIVEN more chances I WASNT
GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS
BEFORE SOMEONE MESSED MY WHOLE LIFE UP FOR 9 FREAKIN YEARS
I WILL have to live with all this BUT SEE I AM LEARNING I
AM BETTER THEN THESE DAMM PERVERTS CAUSE I DONT HAVE TO LET
THEM RUIN MY LIFE i can go on ALL THE VICTIMS OUT THERE HANG
ON BECAUSE SOME DAY JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE
PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
07:21:46
Comments
I am a person that was molested and raped for 9 yrs and i
am so sick and tired of people defending the damm JW'S who
did this. What the hell is wrong with you you have a screw
lose in that brain of yours? You would think people wanna
protect children BUT NO read yesterdays NEWS HEADLINE across
our nation ANOTHER SEX RING busted EVEN PARENTS were found
to b molesting these kids SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN OUR WORLD
THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE IN SIDE KH DONT DO MORE
THEN WHAT THEIR DOING WITH THESE what ever you wanna call
a pervert PERVERTS should NOT BE GIVEN more chances I WASNT
GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS
BEFORE SOMEONE MESSED MY WHOLE LIFE UP FOR 9 FREAKIN YEARS
I WILL have to live with all this BUT SEE I AM LEARNING I
AM BETTER THEN THESE DAMM PERVERTS CAUSE I DONT HAVE TO LET
THEM RUIN MY LIFE i can go on ALL THE VICTIMS OUT THERE HANG
ON BECAUSE SOME DAY JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE
PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
08:18:54
Comments
to that guy rich. jesus is so happy to have found a lost sheep
i,m glad you have a brain. your doing the right thing . but
don,t be fooled the wt has demonic powers to bring you back.
try to dictance yourself from them try fellowshiping with
christians in other churches were thier not judgemental .
ya,ll be suprised there are many christian people who let
the bible speak . for it self . ray franz book is great but
there is so much more to learn about the wt. freedom in christ
to all. john
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
08:40:52
Comments
bonnielyn i can almost hear the angels singing to the reply
you gave that jw who posted read this. you were right on TARGET
in saying if he was willing to go against the wt policy to
save just one child. remember jws are taught that anything
bad done to them means they are loyal to jehovah in bklyn.
oh i mean god in heaven. john
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:25
Comments
to soapbox i have to say you put up some great posts. but
when you say to confront jw,s or the wt your contradicting
yourself the whole idea is to confront the wt and let the
word out . there wouldn,t be this big molesting problem in
the wt if it was not for all thier lies after lies after lies
the wt uses to glorfy themselves . that how thier getting
away with with the sex cases. let me ask you when your on
the street and see jws do you stop and tell them about all
the molesters in the wt and how the wt lies to cover it up.
i wonder if you got the love of christ to so. sitting hear
posting all day and not going out and letting feelings be
heard is almost a sin ,let me tell you when i stop and expose
the wt i,m a gentleman at the same time i,m not going to let
anyone foricate with the word of god and belittle me . thats
right i set them up just to show them how they lie to idolize
the wt. did jesus not set up the pharisess.in thier lies .
see when jw defenders come here and say bill should wear a
clown suit etc. and i read it i,ll straighten them right out
. it,s called a taste of thier own medicine. and i know jws
can,t handle it but they love to dish it out!!!!!this is war
i,m doing my part to my ability. if all this abused lambs
here posted the names of thier molseters and went to the district
attorney office .maybe bill could get this thing going instead
of just leaving this couragous man hanging out on a limb .i
still stand by that any jw defender who stands behind the
wt molester policy deserves the same sexual abuse done to
them .what that verse an eye for an eye. that,s right i hit
jws with question from left field i try to made them think
.i understand wt brainwashing i give them something to think
aboutand which ever lie a jw sees first in the wt if they
use thier brains they will put it together and see the worst
crime in all the wt is the sexual abuse of children. freedom
in christ to all. john
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:24
Comments
TO NAN: Thank you for all the usful and "reality check" information.
**********TO ELDER J.B. - it is a comfort to know always that
there are elders who are smart, compassionate, and don't see
a conflict in caring for the sheep and loving Jehovah. The
love is one and of the same. ***** TO JOHN FROM THE BRONX
-thanks for toning it down - now I can read your words and
understand what you are saying!!****TO JESIKA: I know you
are not feeling well - I am so sorry. It is important to remember
that this is the place where silentlambs come to be not-so-silent,
to express their rage at an "elder" or JW who defends
the two witness policy or denies there is a problem is healthy
and harmless given it is on "cyberspace" ****************this
is not the place for JW's to defend their position without
compassion or be sacastic to people who have been harmed or
are trying to help and when they do, it triggers alot of justified
rage.********************I have found with my own issues I
have had to take "a break" throughout the years.
Please check how many new people (and storied) who support
Bill and Silentlambs that keep posting!!!!! The rage never
really goes away and will always reappear when the mind and
heart can deal with it. You are in a "rest period" and
don't want to be reminded of your own justified anger. A big
big hug of comfort to you from me -Love, Claudine.....
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:00:38
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:04:31
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:33:32
Comments
you got to give it to BUSTER onaug 9 12:19:30his statements
ring with the sound of fact you have to look at wt history
to see were the wt is coming from just a few months ago i
had the pleasure to read a new wt. that meat in due season
. it said the great wt publication the time is at hand was
bible truth???and the sound of judge rutherford on the record
player reminded the people of voices of angels from heaven..INTERESTING.
ANY ONE HERE READ THE TIME IS AT HAND BESIDES ME . JW DEFENDERS.
I HOPE THIS POST DIDN,T UPSET ANY . FREEDOM IN CHRIST TO ALL.AMEM
JOHN
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:34:56
Comments
I would like to hear personally from any J.W. that was abused
sexually & child pornogragphy was involved . Total annonimity
a must. Please send to cosmicjill@planetkc.com. Asap is very
important!!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:57:01
Comments
Penny, Hi, I am so glad that you posted your story. As you
probably have read, there are a lot of lambs just like you,
if you can gain some strength from that, it can at least be
a blessing! bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
12:09:59
Comments
Gerard May Ex. J W since 1983. Mind blowing keep exposing
the attrocities. Regards from Ireland
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
12:35:46
Comments
John: I work and go out all the time. I run into the JW's
and I do talk about Dateline!! I can't help myself. But I
don't tell call them liars or names - I confront them with
my concerns. And it never ever ceases to amaze me that they
show absolutely no regard for my concerns - they defend the
WTS as if it is God. The Evil that prevails is everywhere,
not just the WTS - agree or not???? *******************Read
Nan's post about the justice system.... it is true what she
says. I have a saying: Who is going to protect the children
from the Child Protection Agency????? Story after story I
have heard about Foster Parents molesting children, CPA ripping
children away from their parents on bogus charges only to
find later that the parents were innocent. ******************
I don't think the WTS is any more evil than anything else
- I think everything is confused, and only God cares about
us. Yes, we want to confront the WTS and JW but with righteouness
and righteous standards - while they judge with unrighteous
standards. I think this is what I mean by not returning evil
for evil - and Jesus replaced all of that "law" with
love. I do not mean and neither did Jesus mean that we are
to love - affectionately those who hurt and harm, or who are
hypocrites. Never!!! But we do not want to be "like them" with
hateful words or actions - it is hard and I am guilty of doing
just that sometimes.***************** Bill has methodically
within the "rules" of WTS and using Ceasar's law
to bring attention to the injustice of the two witness hypocracy.**************
I hate what the WTS has done in the name of God and I hate
that I was so seduced by it, that I lost my common sense and
ability to think for myself.*******************But I do not
hate the witnesses- pissed off- yes. Most of them are seduced,
fearful of their own thoughts and think that Jehovah is judging
them for seeing the hypocracy.************Now the GB, is another
story - they are deliberate in their actions and they scare
the "hell" out of me. What they did to the Malawi's
is unforgiveable-I have read letters to the Nazi's stating
the WTS position on the Jews -it was horrible - evil horrible.
But the aveage JW does not know - and I have no answer. If
a mother whose own child was molested by an Elder - and no
action was taken because the mother is loyal to Jehovah aka
WTS to me there is nothing I can say that will change the
meaningfulness of her experience. I have tried - and the wall
is thick.*********** I don't want a reputation of being a
hater of JW's - then I can never speak with them. The Dateline/Panorama/the
news articles/the march - if these save one child or parent
past JW current JW or future JW from the unhealthy teaching
of two witnesses to pedophilia - mission has been accomplished.***********The
United States government is not protecting our children -
the laws they are passing, the garbage they allow on television,
what they allow to teach in the schools are all against family
values. It is not just the WTS - but we all expected the WTS
to have a higher value of standards.***************One of
the biggest errors that I see is the WTS has taken over the
family headship.**************Confront without being offensive
is my motto, confront with Jehovah's standards - blameless
- be blameless. Silentlambs and Bill Bowen, the Andersons,
Franz all show a fine example of righteousness tempered with
patience. Hey, I am Irish and French- holy smoley; I am a
yeller, screamer and a fighter!****** Anyway, John I am sure
that I have inner conflicts contradictions and say one thing
and the next day have a different view. This whole subject
has hit every aspect of my being and I am heartbroken. Claudine/soapbox
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
14:17:56
Comments
Claudine/soapbox-Becareful of how you compare things to the
WTS and remember that all instituaitons are only real if people
surrender power to them. Power is always surrendered not taken.
Christian morality is easily preyed upon. Remember that. The
statement that the WTS is no more or less/good or bad than
anyone else is in my opinion bull. People in other groups
do not act nor do what this particualr group does. I refuse
to accept that John has been 100% wrong. He is angry over
what is and has has been going on. We have the potential to
help him work through it. "John I do understand your
anger. Many of us have been able to use it in productive ways.
Stephen Hanssen has a good program. Just as JWD stated it
is a knee jerk reaction to defend your faith. He is right.
But I do not condone the conduct that others like him have
done like slandering Bill. That is pathetic at best. (I am
not saying that you did JWD) The same we all should work at
not giving wantan insults to each other they are not productive,
they are what is called agitation. They are "thought
stoppers." I.e. "Evil for evil."When I was
goated with the trinity issue I said no period. Minus trying
to put words in my mouth JWD accepted that discussion over.
That is not the issue here. Zombies and "evil plans" are
not why I am here. Public awarness is why I stick around.
When I see the propaganda machine start up Like now like in
May I will be sounding off.-SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
14:23:13
Comments
I would never ever wish this evil upon anyone - not as a parent
or as the child who has been sexually abused or raped. This
is where I disagree with John - there is no useful meaningfulness
is this horrible experience. It ruins lives, precious beautiful
children and their families. There must be another way for
those who support pedophiles to have empathy and compassion
for the ones that are hurting and have been harmed.************Even
parents who are JW's lack this empathy for their own children
out of the fear of displeasing Jehovah God and bring shame
upon his name.***************My whole family has shown empathy
to my children's abuser without showing a shred of empathy
to my children. My siblings think that I am wrong to not "understand" about
my brother who did this to my children.************* None
of us are JW's - and I was the only one who studied. This
loyalty to a pervert can be conjured up for "any reason" but
to do it for Jehovah is way out in left field. I won't speak
to my siblings anymore - out of loyalty to my children. I
spoke my "peace" - and if they choose to not hear
there is nothing I can do. ***********The irony of all of
this is they will probably read about the WTS and call me
a hypocrite because they will think that I support the JW's
- oh well....I thank Jehovah that He saw fit to teach me right
from wrong and gave me a heart that is receptive to right
and wrong. I thank him for this clarity every single day and
scutinize myself so as to always show my gratitude. I don't
take it for granted. It is a fine line between being righteous
and self-righteous. I cross it all the time. C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
15:03:57
Comments
Gerard May Ex. J W since 1983. Mind blowing keep exposing
the attrocities. Regards from Ireland /// Welcome Gerard!
glad you stopped by! The lambs and future lambs need all the
support they can get! bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
16:10:12
Comments
Your web site is great and a true "window" on what
has been going on. I live in Spain and have just come back
from the U.K. where the shock waves about the Panorama programme
were initially great, but all seems to have been calmed down
again after reports that the whole programme was put on by
apostates and that "Jehovah will sort everything out"....so
once again everyone is bending the knee to direction from
the platform. I was a JW for 28 years and I have not been
associating for the last 2 years for so many different doctrinal
reasons, but I am so concerned about this whole issue, and
I wish you all the strength you need to deal with the situation.
Perhaps Jehovah is using you to sort thing out. After all
HIS name is involved!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
16:53:15
Comments
Regarding the comments - Perhaps Jehovah is using you to sort
thing out. After all HIS name is involved //Welcome to the
silentlamb site! And a special thank you for the comments
that you have made! HIS name has been involved, in this and
many other issues close to this, the two witnesses policy
the org is hiding behind HIS word to excuse that! Regarding
booting out the ones who wants to help open the eyes and hearts
to this issue again, the org is using HIS word to excuse that!
Not only that but even to the point of putting more burden
by deceiving the followers of their org into believing everyone
that wants to help the children are apostates for doing so....
When if anyone cares to look, their own Awake mag. in 1993
that we have to do ALL WE CAN TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN! As
soon as Mr. Bowen and the Andersons proceed with what the
Awake told them to do, which was ALL THEY CAN DO TO PROTECT
THE CHILDREN they get the royal wt boot! bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
17:11:11
Comments
From the Abused active happy JW (1)First, not all abused “silentlambs” as
you call us, YES US, leave the organization and embark on
a smear campaign as a full time vocation.(Answer) YOU ARE
SO RIGHT. You can and should deal with events in the way that
is best for you. However this is not a smear campaign. There
are many documented cases here and the WTS point of view is
not being taken out of context. “Smear campaign? No./Full
time? No. (2) I object to all the negativity and insensitivity
that is consistently displayed by JW detractors. (Answer)
How is being against the policy of “child molesting,
Spousal abuse, and abusing the disfellowshipping powers being
a detractor? (I admit I think that the disfellowshiping thing
is cruel and anti everything that the Jehovah's Witnesses
stand for!) (3)Am I evil? Am I brainwashed? Am I stupid? Am
I a moron? Am I a zombie?(Answer) I don't know are you?
(4)Not all abused JW's take you road you have taken,
for your information.(Answer) Nor should you have to. Nor
should you have to be silenced! (5)I will continue to proclaim
the Kingdom of Jehovah door to door(Answer) Maybe I will come
with you and share “Crisis of Conscience.” (6)I
am not brainwashed as you claim I am(Answer) If you were how
would you know?/////// The Elder (1) I am currently serving
as an elder here in a Kentucky congregation. I am relatively
young in years (35 to be axact) and have served in 5 congregations
already. (Answer)Welcome, I upfront said that I am not a witness
nor have ever been. I do however carry 10 years of experience
dealing with a JW family. Why were you not honest and upfront
in the beginging? Why did you feel the need to covet who you
were? There is no threat of violence here so why not be forthcoming?
(Glad you were honest though.) (2) I have gathered from posts
in this room and from Bill Bowens own comments it make it
seem like their is 2 pedophiles in every congregation.(Answer)
Where did you read that? I have not found that anywhere. (3)
It is also their right to take the matter to police we would
not discourage that.(Answer) Then why disfellowship Bill,
Erin, and others? Would you have done that? You are not saying
what would happen AFTER they go to the police. What you you
do to them? (4) I do not know if this is fair to the accused
if no witnesses can be provided to validate the claim.(Answer)
they have evidence? Is this not just restating the 2 witness
rule? (5) Thats all we can do our hands would be tied,(Answer)
In my opinion anyone who did not rescue a “lamb,” anyone
who covered up a crime has blood on their hands. (6) we offer
alot of support for each other (Answer) Even pagans due that.
How do you see the outside world? How do you treat those who
do not or no longer share your policies or views? (7) you
had a bad experience, you felt it wasn't handled properly
and you left. (Answer) Bill was railroaded he did not leave!
How many more are out there. Once shunned poop has more value
than even your own flesh and blood. 20 years of service, 40
years of friendship would be flushed, and for what the hope
that maybe the person will come crawling back. (8) Especially
having served in so many congregations. There is a lot of
good out there. (Answer) Out of how many total world wide
organizations have you served? 5 is a rather small number.
(9) But for me to leave what I know is the truth especially
in comparing other religions (which I have done quite extensively
before I became a witness) does not solve anything.(Answer)
Is this not violating what “Stark” says? (10)
please understand my views as I am sensitive to yours.(Answer)
Sensitive how? Will you speak up for Bill? Do you support
the action against him? Do you support the current GB position?
Why?
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
17:59:06
Comments
to seq. your on the money abour bastardizing the scriptures
twisted any way to protect what i see as an evil money hungry
soul hungry empire. as for jr brown he,s a pharessie and hypocrite
with his watch me twist jws into a pretzel stance on sexual
misbehavior. he,s leaving the wt open to some sharp lawyer
with his ludicriss statements just wait it will happen thats
a prophecy my record is better than the fds. and your so right
in the ignorance wt defenders show and that,s because they
did not prove all things true. they have to open thier mind
and do thier HOMEWORK.that the only way to see the light there
are wt articles on this try 3 8 2001 what can we learn from
history .and apply it to the wt. and i will stand with you
and never budge on child molesters no matter weather people
don,t like that i use that wt tactic of intimidation back
on them when needed did the wt play by the rules when they
shafted mr. bowen . freedom in christ to All. john
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:57
Comments
10 Aug 2002 Time: 17:11:11 Comments Posted by SEQ
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
19:08:51
Comments
soap box were almost on the same page as for the gov,t and
child protection agency at least they try . i see the same
problems with these institutions as you but i know my grandmother
was in an orfanage in the 20,s and it ruined her she never
told me much but it was obvious she was hurt there.maybe i
gave the wrong impression i just don,t stop and call jws liars
i measure my words i tell the same things as you .my concerns
how the wt has hurt people . and mislead them and i,m pretty
good i try different topics to find thier concerns then i
capitalize on it .i give wt articles and dates so they can
look it up themselves.i also leave my phone # you be suprised
some do call and ask for more info.i go as far with them as
thier willing to go. but there are jws i,ve debated hundreds
of time like my father and his friends some are very knowledgable
i bust them almost all the time. so now i have a factual right
at this point to call them lairs and the z____e word. because
i,ve proved my point and they can,t honestly back up the wt
with lying. and my father knows it. i know i,m causing problems
in the co-op city cong. as well as else were cause i got jw
asking questions the elders po,s co,s etc. can,t or don,t
want to answer . i know because i here it through the grape
vine .you know your making an impact when you run into a jw
defender in harlem and they know your name . i would love
to get some names of some jw child molesters in my area to
expose them and cause more trouble . i would have no problem
going to court to help the abused and expose the wt. see thats
what i,m all about and i,m an asset to the silent lambs .
and i,ll try to save the z word for jws that i have grown
to love over the years. but sometimes these loved ones need
tough love...freedom in christ to all john
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
19:19:24
Comments
CJ, If you do come back in here, I again want to tell you,
thank you for writing me the post and sharing that you are
an Elder, it meant a lot to me, that you would expose yourself
in such a way. My earlier posts have covered most of my topis
of issue, so this is just a special one just to say thanks!
maybe once you found out that I was never a baptized jw, you
didn't feel inclined to answer my questions, that's okay!
I understand completely where you feel your loyalty has to
lay! Regarding your comment about leaving what you know is
the truth, I've not left the truth at all! I've just learned
of more truth and the hint of more to be seen! I would never
want to sway someone to change how they spiritually believe,
their faith, that's why I don't even try to talk to my mother
about this, it only upsets her and now in her older years
with health problems... I do not want to show her dishonor...
One thing she did say that scared me to death though was that
'if this faith is directed to satan, I am happy and at peace
and I need to be that way' and all I asked her was that isn't
it true that if it seems not from HIM then it's from the bad
guy? and this issue with the child abusers is not from HIM
right? I didn't know how to answer her with that comment!
Anyway, thanks again for your posts to me... bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:09
Comments
Just filling you in. There's an article about all upcoming
in Sunday's New York Times.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:27:46
Comments
what can we do to help the lambs get justice after many many
years of torment and cover ups.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:37:04
Comments
8/11/02 New york times, front page. Barbara Anderson, Joe
Anderson, Bill Bowen, Ya'll ROCK!
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:40:02
Comments
what can we do to help the lambs get justice after many many
years of torment and cover ups. -- Reply: For starters, Keep
the pressure on the media to keep this issue in the news and
before the public (write them, send them URLS, newspaper articles
from this site, etc.), who in turn keeps the pressure on the
law enforcement agencies and the court/legal systems. Write
your politicians. Also, write letters to the WTS/GB. Also,
see the "HELP SILENT LAMBS" button on the Home page.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:41:38
Comments
YES, YES, YES!!! IF YOU'RE UP AT 3 AM, HEAD OUT TO THE STORE
AND GET A COPY OF THE SUNDAY (8-11-02) EDITION OF THE NEW
YORK TIMES! THERE WILL BE AN EXTENSIVE ARTICLE ON THE SILENT
LAMBS!!! HURRY & HURRAY!!! CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:43:36
Comments
John, you crack me up. You wrote: "you know your making
an impact when you run into a jw defender in harlem and they
know your name." -- Tell me, were you this "zealous" when
you were a JW? (I forget if you were ever a JW or not, I know
your father is). Either way, you certainly deserve the title
of "Pioneer" with your current street work! :-)
I could tell even thru your anger you were "cool." Glad
you are leaving out the curse words, though. It's easy for
any of us to go a little wild sometimes, especially about
this sex abuse subject, and the WT-machine. You must have
a mind like a steel-trap being able to remember so many WT-literature
details AND scriptures. Keep up the good work and thanks for
supporting Silent Lambs. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:44:23
Comments
THREE CHEERS for whoever replied the thought-provoking questions
and answers to "From the Abused active happy JW (1)First..." THANK
YOU! When I am too tired to write much, I sure do appreciate
reading how others express themselves, and enunciate the facts
so well. Thanks again. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:45:24
Comments
NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE on "Silentlambs"/Bill Bowens
- Read it Here!!!************* LINK TO ARTICLE:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34280&
page=1&site=3#455607
For those who can't wait till Sunday... OUSTED MEMBERS CONTEND
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' ABUSE POLICY HIDES OFFENSES: by By LAURIE
GOODSTEIN ****************** William Bowen always considered
himself a devout Jehovah's Witness. As a child, he felt it
was his duty to go door to door passing out the church's magazine,
The Watchtower. Later, as an elder in his Kentucky congregation,
he said he saw it as his duty to inform church officials that
a fellow elder had abused a child. *************** But when
Mr. Bowen contacted the church's headquarters in Brooklyn,
he says, he was rebuffed. Frustrated by the church's inaction
and by its confidentiality provisions, which he said prevented
him from sharing the information with others, Mr. Bowen resigned
as an elder in December 2000. A year later, he started a group
to monitor child sexual abuse in the church. ******************
Late last month, Mr. Bowen, 44, was **EXCOMMUNICATED FROM
THE CHURCH**. Behind a locked door, with PLASTIC BAGS TAPED
OVER THE WINDOWS TO WARD OFF ONLOOKERS, he said, three church
elders meeting at the church's Kingdom Hall in Draffenville,
Ky., found him guilty of "causing divisions." *****************
The punishment was "DISFELLOWSHIPING" COMPLETE SHUNNING.
**************** In the past three months, four other people
have been expelled from the Jehovah's Witnesses after accusing
it of covering up the sexual abuse of children by its members.
For Mr. Bowen and other critics of church policies on sexual
abuse, the expulsions are part of a concerted effort to keep
such abuses quiet. ************************ Expelled Witnesses
say the church's own policies and culture conspire to conceal
abuse. A panel of church elders, all men, meets in secret
to decide each case, a procedure which critics say prevents
members from knowing there is an abuser in their midst. To
prove an accusation, a child must have a witness to the incident,
a condition that is usually impossible to meet. ********************* "This
is evidence for the world to see how the Jehovah's Witnesses
treat abuse survivors and those who try to protect them," said
Mr. Bowen. "They silence them with the threat of disfellowshiping." ********************
J. R. Brown, director of the public information office at
church headquarters, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society,
in Brooklyn, said the church had exemplary policies for handling
sexual abuse, which were based on biblical standards and had
been widely published in church magazines. ******************* "We're
not trying to say we handled everybody in the right way and
our elders are all-knowing, all perfect," said Mr. Brown,
who declined as a matter of policy to comment on individual
cases, including Mr. Bowen's. "But we say, if you take
what our policy is for keeping our organization clean morally,
**IT FAR OUTPACES ANYBODY ELSE'S**." *************************
While the Roman Catholic Church has been engulfed in its own
sexual abuse scandal, the same issue is beginning to plague
the Jehovah's Witnesses, a denomination that claims one million
members in the United States and six million worldwide. ********************
But the shape of the scandal is far different than in the
Catholic church, where most of the people accused of abuse
are priests and a vast majority of the victims were boys and
young men. In the Jehovah's Witnesses, where congregations
are often collections of extended families and church elders
are chosen from among the laypeople, some of those accused
are elders, but most are congregation members. The victims
who have stepped forward are mostly girls and young women,
and many accusations involve incest. *********************
The scope of abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses is a matter
of considerable debate. The church has recently been sued
by eight plaintiffs in four lawsuits alleging abuse, one filed
in July in Minnesota. Mr. Bowen says that his victims support
group, "silentlambs," has collected reports from
more than 5,000 Witnesses contending that the church mishandled
child sexual abuse. ************************ The church keeps
a database of members and associates who have been accused
or found guilty of child abuse. Mr. Bowen said church sources
had told him the database contained the names of more than
23,000 people in the United States, Canada and Europe. The
church says the number is "considerably lower," but
will not say what it is. ************************* The church
has a firm framework for handling sexual abuse cases. Members
who suspect abuse are advised to go first to the elders, who
are considered spiritual and moral leaders to whom the members
are to turn with their personal problems. Mr. Brown said that
the church's legal department advised elders to follow the
law in states that have mandatory reporting laws, and in cases
in which children appear to be in danger. **************************
The elders are the ones required to judge whether someone
has committed a sin like child abuse. If the abuser confesses
and is forgiven, the only notice given to the congregation
is an announcement that the person has been disciplined. No
reason is announced. However, the elders report the person's
name to headquarters, where it goes into the database so that
abuser is banned from serving in a position of authority.
********************** "If a person can cry a good tune,
there are virtually no repercussions and nobody besides the
elders ever knows," said Jean Kraus, who said she went
to elders in her Queens congregation years ago accusing her
former husband of abusing their daughter. She said that he
confessed, was reprimanded and was still an active Witness. "They
told me that **HE WASN'T A WICKED MAN, THAT IT WAS A WEAKNESS**," she
said. *********************** The church spokesman, Mr. Brown,
said: "We view such judicial hearings as an extension
of our shepherding work as ministers. In other words, **WE'RE
THERE TO SAVE A PERSON'S SOUL. IN THESE CASES WE ARE NOT GOING
TO BE VINDICTIVE BECAUSE THESE ARE OUR BROTHERS, AND WE WOULD
HOPE THAT THEY WOULD CHANGE**." **************************
If the accused denies the allegation, the victim's testimony
alone is not sufficient unless there is at least one other
witness to the act. The church says its policy is based on
a scriptural injunction in Deuteronomy 19:15 that says two
or three witnesses are necessary to prove a man has sinned.
************************ Heidi Meyer, a third-generation Jehovah's
Witness in Annandale, Minn., said she went to her elders in
1994, when she was 15, to say that from the ages of 10 to
13 she had been repeatedly molested by a fellow Witness eight
years her senior, the older brother of a friend. The only
eyewitness was her brother, who had once seen the man grab
her buttocks as she got out of a car. ************************
The elders asked explicit questions that made her uncomfortable,
she said. According to an internal Witness document "PAY
ATTENTION TO YOURSELF AND TO ALL THE FLOCK," the elders
must determine in which category the accusation fits: IF IT
WAS "UNCLEANNESS," A ONE-TIME TOUCHING ABOVE THE
WAIST; "LOOSE CONDUCT", TOUCHING BELOW THE WAIST
OR MORE THAN ONCE ABOVE; OR THE MOST SEVERE, "PORNEIA," DIRECT
SEXUAL STIMULATION OR ACTIVITY RESULTING IN ORGASM. EACH OFFENSE
CARRIES DIFFERENT PENALTIES, with the most severe for porneia.
************* The man she was accusing insisted that Ms. Meyer
had misinterpreted what happened. The elders agreed. ****************** "I
was expecting spiritual guidance," Ms. Meyer said. "I
was expecting them to genuinely, sincerely attempt to find
justice and protect the rest of the congregation from this
same thing happening. And none of that happened." *********************
She, like several other alleged victims and their relatives,
said in interviews that the elders warned her against reporting
the abuse or talking about it with other members. ************************* "They
told me if I spoke about it with anybody, I needed to be careful
because I could face a judicial committee for gossip or slander," she
said. "If they felt I had committed that sin, I would
be disfellowshiped." ************************** Ms. Meyer
says she learned only years later that Amber Long, another
young woman in the congregation, had at age 12 gone to the
elders with her parents to report that she had been molested
by the same man. Ms. Long, who is now 23, said she and her
parents received a letter from the Witnesses advising her
to "leave it in Jehovah's hands." ************************** "They
said we shouldn't hold ill feelings about our brothers," Ms.
Long said. "Since there weren't two eyewitnesses, they
said there wasn't much they could do." **************************
Neither Ms. Long nor Ms. Meyer is still active in the Jehovah's
Witnesses. On July 2, the two women filed suit against the
man they accuse of molesting them Derek Lindala, 30, of South
Haven, Minn. the local congregation, and Jehovah's Witness
headquarters. Mr. Lindala did not respond to a message left
at his home seeking comment. *************************** Barbara
Anderson, of Tullahoma, Tenn., said that when she and her
husband lived and worked at church headquarters in Brooklyn
in the 1990's, she was asked to gather information about child
abuse in the congregations. She said she handed over to church
leaders dozens of letters complaining about how cases were
handled. For her it was a revelation. ************************** "Jehovah's
Witnesses like to say that we have one of the most crime-free
organizations," Mrs. Anderson said. "But all problems
are taken to the elders, and the elders keep them quiet." She
said that the documents prompted an internal debate among
church leaders, and that when there was no action, SHE LEFT
HEADQUARTERS DISHEARTENED IN 1993, after 11 years of volunteering.
************************** Carl A. Raschke, a professor of
religious studies at the University of Denver who has written
about the Jehovah's Witnesses, said the group was no different
from many other insular religions that aspire to theological
and moral purity. ************************ "Groups that
tend to be very tight-knit and in-grown historically have
a higher incidence of sexual abuse and incest," Dr. Raschke
said. "That's an ethnological fact. When a religion tries
to be thoroughly holy or godly, it's not going to acknowledge
that people aren't living up to the ideals of the faith." ******************
On July 25, Mrs. Anderson was **EXCOMMUNICATED**. A week later
her husband, Joe, who had earlier resigned as **AN ELDER AFTER
42 YEARS, WAS ALSO EXPELLED**. "It is inconceivable to
think elders would investigate an allegation of murder to
determine guilt or innocence, so why would we investigate
an allegation of child abuse?" Mr. Anderson wrote in
his resignation letter. "THIS IS JUST NOT OUR FIELD OF
EXPERTISE. We are ministers of God, not police." ****************LINK
TO ARTICLE: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34280&page=1&site=3#455607
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:54:48
Comments
For a change of pace, how about some secular history with
a twist... ----- "Beware the (GB) leader who bangs the
drums of (theocratic) war in order to whip the (JW) citizenry
into a patriotic (WTS) fervor, for (WTS) patriotism is indeed
a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as
it NARROWS THE MIND. And when the drums of (theocratic) war
have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and
the mind has CLOSED, the (GB) leader will have no need in
seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the (JW) citizenry,
infused WITH FEAR and BLINDED by (WTS) patriotism, will OFFER
UP ALL THEIR RIGHTS unto the (GB) leader and gladly so. How
do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." --
Julius Caesar
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:58:58
Comments
JW for 28 Years wrote: I live in Spain and have just come
back from the U.K. where the shock waves about the Panorama
programme were initially great, but all seems to have been
calmed down again --- Reply: NOT FOR LONG. See Sunday's New
York Times! --- 28 Years continued... "after reports
that the whole programme was put on by apostates and that "Jehovah
will sort everything out"....so once again everyone is
bending the knee to direction from the platform. ---- Reply:
What was SEQ saying about the propaganda machine rolling out?
(see her/his above quote). What JW/28 Years says is THE PERFECT
EXAMPLE of the WT-Propaganda Machine In Action! Oh How I wish
the current elders/JWs could SEE SEE SEE this blinding activity
by the GB/WTS! (blame it on Satan, blame it on his tool, the
media, blah blah blah -- such baloney!). --- Isn't it funny
though, the TIMING of the Dateline show. B.Bowen and others
were waiting since late last summer for it to air. Some supporters
even began to believe it was never really going to happen.
Yet, "by Jehovah's will" it did NOT AIR UNTIL AFTER
the Catholic Church scandal erupted, which made the WTS LOOK
ALL THE WORSE for bashing the C.Church all along over THEIR
SEX SINS, and then, WHAMO! the WTS faces public humiliation
by having their own sex sins exposed. Personally, I think
the TIMING WAS PERFECT. It also would explain why WTS is more
DESPERATE THAN EVER TO COVER THEIR A**/IMAGE, because of this
very fact, that they POINTED THE FINGER SO MANY TIMES at the
sex sins of the C.Church, all the while denying their own.
Shame Shame. And now the NY Times will be out in a few hours!
Hot Dog! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:03:04
Comments
Some Very Short-Sighted Person wrote: "Seems the Newspaper
articles are becoming scarce, I wonder if the fickle media
cares about the smear campaign you have going on now?" ****
Response: I hope you EAT CROW FOR BREAKFAST when THE NEW YORK
TIMES comes out!!! And if you start to choke, please don't
come here looking for someone to perform the Heimlich maneuver
on you!
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:55
Comments
NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE (SCANNED PAGES) -- SUNDAY AUGUST 11th,
2002!!!!---- ---Bill Bowens, Joe & Barbara Anderson
OUSTED--"Silentlambs" Speak
out!************Link to Actual New York Times Article (Scans
of article)------Link of Scanned Copy of Article:
http://www.watchtowernews.org/nytimes081102.htm
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:06:59
Comments
"
the governing body and JW's as a whole cannot be classified
or branded as an overall bad people based on 1800s history.." ***
Maybe not if their ERRORS had STOPPED THERE. But they didn't.
They have continued well thru the Present. You have alot of
reading to do yet, young man.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:31
Comments
Nan! THANK YOU for speaking up! I only know of one molester,
but it really gets on my nerves these JW who keep trying to
say it is "only a few." Bill Bowen and Barb & Joe
Anderson know of hundreds (if not thousands) of other cases
personally. And I TRUST the are telling the truth about this.
The WTS even ADMITTED to the database. So how is it these
JWs like CJ and JWD try to say there are "only a few." It
is also true what you say how abuse destroys lives, and causes
immense emotional torment. To cover it up and/or be told to
keep silent is rubbing salt in an open wound. So, again, THANK
YOU, Nan, for speaking up and showing everyone that THERE
ARE MANY MORE as you, sadly, have had to experience firsthand.
Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:53
Comments
WOW to the Spider & The Fly story! I never knew the whole
thing. That is so PERFECT (a) perfect description of how pedophiles
(candy men) work; (b) perfect description of the "candy" (lies)
with which the WTS has fed the unsuspecting ones. Thanks for
posting it in its entirety, SEQ!! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:13:48
Comments
Sheila and Christopher Madonia 807 NE 67th Place Gladstone,
MO 64118 This is my letter I sent to Bill to present in his
defense --- THANKS SHeila & Christopher! I thought we
could not write letters if we were not currently active JWs.
I wish I had realized this. I didn't write a letter because
I didn't think it would count since I no longer go to the
KHall. What do you think Sheila? (I guess it's a moot point
now, but I'm curious). Thanks/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:16
Comments
BLM wrote: "Since you've chosen the name JW DEFENDER,
you are now a DEFENDER of the JW children too! Right?!" --
GOOD ONE, BLM!!! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:17:15
Comments
"
Proud to be a JW" asked "What would you say to me
if I showed up to one of your rallies? Would you invite me
to speak?" I don't see why not. Why not go to the March
on 9/27 in NY and find out? The point is not whether an abused
person is/was/stays a JW or not, the ISSUE, as all current
JWs do not seem to let SINK IN, IS THE WTS POLICY REGARDING
THE MOLESTERS, THE WTS' COVERING UP OF THE MOLESTERS, THE
WTS' ABUSE OF THE VICTIMS THEMSELVES, THE WTS' DF'ING OF THE
VICTIMS & THEIR ADVOCATES, THE WTS' DENIAL OF THE ISSUES,
THE WTS TELLING ELDERS TO CALL LEGAL RATHER THAN GO STRAIGHT
TO POLICE, THE WTS ENCOURAGING THE JWS TO SUPPORT THE PEDOPHILES
IN THE TRIALS, etc. etc. etc. THESE ARE THE POINTS. Read JB/Elder's
post, or Buster's posts, or all the past posts asking about
the scriptures used to "do nothing" about the molesters
(if the WT wants to use Mat. 18:16, then why don't they use
verse 17, etc.?) The fact that you, personally, are doing
so well is a fine thing, and we are happy for you. But how
can you sit idly by and condone the behavior of your "spiritual" leaders?
If you, as an abuse suvivor, knows firsthand the damage it
did to your psyche, then I would think you would be FIRST
IN LINE to assist the abuse survivors who did not fare as
well as you, and you would be writing letters to the society
asking they COME CLEAN, APOLOGIZE, ACT LIKE MEN INSTEAD OF
MICE, QUIT DENYING/COVERING UP, CHANGE THEIR POLICY, etc.
etc. And, Since you live in such a nice home, have you signed
up for the "Friends of the Lambs" network (see "HELP
SILENT LAMBS" button on the home page for complete details).
As for "JW Detractors," I swear. Here's another
area where current JWs keep MISSING THE OBVIOUS: It is YOUR
OWN GB WHO ARE THE DETRACTORS. THEY SET THE PATTERN, THEY
MADE THE "RULES," THEY ARE THE ONES WHO DENIED & COVERERED
UP, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO TELL ALL OF YOU WHAT TO DO (from
the top down). THEY ARE THE NEGATIVE & INSENSITIVE ONES
WHO HUSHED UP THE VICTIMS (of course rather than acting like
MEN and owning up to their mistakes, they continue to polish
it over for the outside world via the PR Dept. and they are
experts at providing the "fluff food" for the JWs
to swallow, hook/line/sinker). Keep reading here and elsewhere.
You'll get the REAL PICTURE sooner or later. Once you know
the WHOLE STORY about the WTS, then please come back in six
months or so, give it time to digest, because it WILL BE PAINFUL.
It's something each person has to learn on their own, and
it won't happen until you can allow yourself to SEE IT. ---
There, now, nobody called you a moron or zombie, etc. Happy?
This wasn't so bad was it? Peace/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:22:01
Comments
I disagree this site has change "so much." When
I first found Silent Lambs last Fall (around October or November),
there were gobs and gobs of angry posts, and I was also upset
by the negativity, since I was still in WT-Dreamland. So I
continued to defend the JWs for months thereafter. The point
is: There were upset/angry posts HERE ON THIS SITE THEN ALSO.
So I don't see why everybody thinks it has changed so much.
--- Since the Dateline airing, I finally allowed myself to
open up more to what the xJWs were saying by reading tons
of more WTS DETAILS (their OWN literature, quotes, their own "behind
the scenes" ways of dealing with things, their witch-hunts,
UN, all the CHANGES re: blood, military, generation, etc.
etc. The changes in the blood policy really killed me!) So
now you could say I am an anti-WTS/GB also (not necessarily
anti-individual JWs). Because I have now READ ENOUGH to KNOW
the WTS I thought I "loved blindly and loyally" is
NOT WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE. And then the Panorama show, and
then how they DF Barbara and Joe Anderson and Bill Bowen,
more covering up rather than ACTING LIKE MEN, SHOWING HUMILITY,
APOLOGIZING FOR THEIR ERROR, and CHANGING. But No, they just
dig their heels in deeper and deeper, and like COWARDS hide
behind their phoney-baloney PR Dept. and lawyers. It REALLY
IS SICKENING and enough to make anybody upset. So again, I
disagree this site has changed that much, at least from Oct./Nov/
'01 until now (maybe it WAS different BEFORE that time). The
point of this site is NOT ONLY FOR LAMB SUPPORT, BUT TO ALSO
BRING ABOUT CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE IN WTS POLICY. So if people
are ticked off about it, who can blame them? Also, imho, whether
the posts sound too upsetting or not DEPENDS ALOT ON WHAT
MOOD WE OURSELVES ARE IN when we read them. Some days the "harsh
reality" of it all is too much to bear, and it IS best
to take a breather from it all. Other days we feel stronger
and can stand up and fight. Nobody can feel strong all the
time. War IS ugly. But who started the war? THE MEN WHO WOULD
RATHER LIE THAN CHANGE, that's who. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:27:17
Comments
WELL SAID, RICH, & WELCOME: "the majority of JWs
seem to be on what i can only describe as 'auto pilot'. (THAT'S
FOR SURE, AND I USED TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME, SO I CAN SPEAK
FROM EXPERIENCE) ... well the problem of covering up abuse
isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole attitude
thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma (RIGHT
ON, RICH! THAT IS SO EXACTLY THE POINT THE JW Defenders REFUSE
TO SEE) ... i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained
conscience (PERFECT DESCRIPTION!) ... i was disgusted by that
GB member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he
just summed up their intire attitude by what he said. (SO
TRUE MY FRIEND, SO TRUE... WHY DIDN'T HE AT LEAST SAY SOMETHING
LOVING, LIKE HE WAS SORRY FOR ANY PAIN OR SUFFERING, OR SOMETHING!!!
HE COULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO SHOW COMPASSION. BUT NO, BECAUSE
THEY THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE; THEY THINK
JEHOVAH IS NOT WATCHING). /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:31:33
Comments
RMK wrote: "I tell you the truth CJ. I saw and heard
many like you in so called Christian Congregations of Jehovah's
witness. You are very polished with your words but it is just
the same. You are not truthful. You know what I mean? RMK" -----
Hi RMK: CJ may not know what you mean yet, but finally I DO,
LOUD & CLEAR. I was so good at speaking that same "purely
false language." /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:32:52
Comments
BLM wrote: "Better to stop the cart before it goes over
the mountain than trying to pull it back up after!" --
Hey BLM: I love your colorful analogies! You've been working
hard I see, lots of good posts you've made. Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:37:12
Comments
"
JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its
NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny" ----- Hi
Penny! So glad to read your great comments! Right on Right
on. And I'm glad you posted about the parent/perverts in the
news. I heard it but forgot about it again until I saw your
post. Somehow people keep FORGETTING that the pervs ARE EVERYWHERE
right under their noses. This is another thing the JWs REFUSE
TO RECOGNIZE. So what if they do NOT KNOW of one in their
cong? He/she probably just hasn't gotten CAUGHT/EXPOSED YET.
THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. Thanks Penny & love ya!/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:51:36
Comments
THIS EXPLAINS IT IN A NUTSHELL: "Carl A. Raschke, a professor
of religious studies at the University of Denver who has written
about the Jehovah's Witnesses, said the group was no different
from many other insular religions that aspire to theological
and moral purity. --- "Groups that tend to be very tight-knit
and in-grown historically have a higher incidence of sexual
abuse and incest," Dr. Raschke said. "That's an
ethnological fact. When a religion tries to be thoroughly
holy or godly, it's not going to acknowledge that people aren't
living up to the ideals of the faith." --- BINGO! NOW
DOES EVERYONE FINALLY "GET IT"??? <http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/national/11WITN.html> Ethnological:
The science that analyzes and compares human cultures, as
in social structure, language, religion, and technology; cultural
anthropology.
Remote User:
Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:56:22
Comments
SLC, Bill needed substantion as to who and what caused "divisions" since
we choose not to go because of them, I think that is a more
powerful statement then those still attending. Bill wrote
and thanked me for my letter, and he knows our standing and
the reasons why. We wanted Bill to have the information he
needed for his fight. If it helps great if it doesn't it sure
felt good to get some of the pain out of my system. As far
as the New York Times article if that isn't akin to stepping
in poo and pretending it's not "your " shoe that's
smelling I don't know what is LOL. What is so friggin hard
about "doing the right thing", children should be
protected why is that such a hard concept. They claim to love
Jehovah but have no real love amongst themselves, it's sick
and twisted. If they would only say "we've done this
wrong, children are the main priority and we will from hence
forth change they way we deal with this issue." But then
they would have to be of honest heart to change now wouldn't
they. Sheila
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
00:59:31
Comments
I just caught up on today's posts and my jaw is still on my
desk. I cannot believe the post that I just read from an active
Witness. Normally I feel deferential toward Bonnielyn, but
you actually wrote: "I would never want to sway someone
to change how they spiritually believe." Didn't that
strike anyone else? - a JW that respects others' spitituality
and personal decisions - and wouldn't try to change them.
If I got the sense correctly, I think award for being closest
to a crossroad. I'm not deriding you, I'm just stunned. -
Buster
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
01:18:29
Comments
From the Dead Horse Whipping department: Just one more comment
to CJ - the Elder. A person would need to be under strict
control to have the audacity to put themselves forward as
a sprirtual leader (I think you may prefer Shepherd) and still
be able to write - seemingly with a straight face, stuff like, "their
right to take the matter to police we would not discourage." No
positive let's get you some help? But you wouldn't stand in
the way of their actually getting actual help from someone
that could actually help them. Real big of you CJ - that is
quite a load spiritual leadership you got goin' there slick.
Here's another gem, "if the accused does not admit guilt
we can do nothing in a judicial way" Pair that with, "our
hands would be tied," and you have the recital from a
man that has been so indoctrinated that he would cite Society
directives instead of deciding that he would help. Yup, you
got the GB marching orders straight. I just hope beyond all
hope that some poor, innocent 12-year-old victim finds someone
else to ask for help and guidance. - Buster
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
01:34:14
Comments
slc WHAMO an other jw defender out for the 10 count . rmk
and WHAMO your words are not truthful with that prepared wt
propaganda ploy another jwd out for the 10 count it,s amazing
with a little training how little david can knock out the
giant{WT} and the silent lambs are on the front page of the
west bumble pup news. WHAMO its the NEW YORK TIMES> and
WHAMO the giant out for the 10 count . holy cow did you see
that the giant chasted the lamb throwing shunning, disfellowship,and
the ever dreaded eternal death sentence.but then the lamb
roared and the giant colasped from the weigtht of the yolk
around it,s neck . WHAMO!!!!!!john
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
02:41:52
Comments
Bust 'em good, Buster!
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
03:03:50
Comments
to slc when my father joined the wt in 72 i was 12 even at
that age i saw right through the wt. i,m not glorifingthe
catholics but i did learn something about god in 5 yrs of
school there. no matter how many times the nuns wacked me
with a stick for not doing my homework maybe they were right
my spelling might be better. they never told me if i don,t
do my homework or go to church god was going to destroy me.
i never was a jw and i never promoted wt teachings.but i remember
about 75 and all the creators promise for the generation of
1914 ie any awake before nov. 1995 pg 4 now let me ask what
creator is the awake talking about we know it can,t be the
creator in the bible even the nwt. because GOD CAN NOT LIE
!!!! so you ask what creator can it be ???lets open our minds
and see any reasonable person as the truth book says will
look at all the evidents and then make an informed decision.
i know your asking what about the sheeps and the goats well
you have to go back to thoses great flashes of light judge
rutherford got from the angels at the 1935 convention in st.
louis on how the seprating working started then now research
the hundreds of times the wt called this bible truth until
nov. 1995 now since the creator of the bible cannot lie do
i have any arguments with that ???if you believe in jesus
i don,t think so . so who can be the creator of such teachings???
i won,t give the answer but i,ll give a clue W___H_O__R if
you can figure this one out you can win more alot more than
pat sajack gives away. freedom in christ to all. john
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
06:01:35
Comments
If the following watchtower policy is true There are certainly
no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an
allegation of child abuse to the authorities.
" http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=020714.htm
Why was Bill Bowen disfellowshipped? bas www.antijehovahswitness.com
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
08:01:42
Comments
To John. thanks for your comment. the WT cant bring me back
to something i've never been to! i keep an open mind on anything
that we cant be sure about in the scriptures, even if the
WT says 'it means this'. other than those things i believe
that JWs as a people do hold the truth of the bible. *****
i said that i only consider myself as part of my congregation
and not part of the society. well i believe that to be the
best option because i know Jehovahs spirit operates in congs
such as mine. we used to have a woman come to our meetings
who was involved in spiritism. she was clairvoyant and so
could see spirits outside the KH. these spirits would end
up going into peoples cars and follow bros and sis home. but
never once would they come into the KH. i think that just
goes to prove my point. to suggest that the WT has demonic
powers would cause all congs not to have the blessing of God's
spirit. you may well know more about the WT than I, but as
i say im not part of them. true there may well be good christians
out there in other churches, and christ will judge them as
he will us. i will end by saying that there will be many JWs
who will not see Gods kingdom and there will be those unfairly
treated by the society who have been stumbled and forced to
leave who will be saved. i wont judge anyone who believes
in Christ, even if their attitude stinks. its not right for
me or anyone including you John to do that. if you suggest
that bad attitudes arent found in other churches, then that
would be a naive view. you cant attack JWs just because of
who they are. if you call yourself a christian then you should
show love to those who believe in Christ even if you dont
agree with their attitude. ****** if the WT has badly sinned
against God, well he will punish them very severely and he
will allow those who have worshiped in spirit and truth to
escape. those who have been wronged will see vindication from
Jehovah. i hope that all those who have been abused and suffered
for righteousness will keep Jehovah and Christ in their lives,
because vengeance belongs to Jehovah. if anyone wants to email
then send emails to: thereflex84@hotmail.com. Rich
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
09:12:13
Comments
Hi, this is a very good and informative site. Do you have
an e-mail newsletter? If not, please start one up. I can help
if you would be interested. Thanks. Tip tippyk9@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
09:36:45
Comments
a prayer for bill bowen i think is in order lets pray the
holy sprit helps him to let the commitee see the light today.
and if not let the holy sprit help expose the judicial committee
for the fools who do not except reproof that the wt is . prov.1
my money on bill i can just see the elders foaming at the
mouth as they get a lesson in humility. i hope bill brings
some millstones i have a feeling there will be some elders
there walking out of the hotel wearing one. i think i,ll go
to the quarry today and cut out somemore millstones for all
the wt defenders who come here and kick mr. bowen and the
lambs. order yours today . freedom in christ to all .john
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:08:08
Comments
Jehovah God is now exposing the WTS for what it really is.
They should be ashamed and embarssed and repentant before
God.....but i guess what they're really worried about is their
MONEY.
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:19:46
Comments
Buster, I am not to sure what your post meant regarding my
comment 'not wanting to sway anyone's spiritual beliefs.
If I understood it correctly you are thinking that I am a
JW, I'm not. I was raised to believe their 'truth' I have
felt for years that I failed them and by doing that failed
HIM. What I have found regarding the UN, new blood policies,
the stocks that the org has in a company that has a contract
with the Navy, and most importantly the public statements
admitting to sending 'known' pedophiles to the doors of unsuspecting
children, all of these and the lamb's case have allowed me
to acknowledge that it was NOT I that failed them, but them
that failed HIM! My comment was directed to the spirit of
someone. I will always hope and have faith that HE is in everyone,
who truly believes and loves HIM, so no I would never want
to sways someone' SPITITUAL beliefs, what they have
been taught, what their mind is telling their spirit, well
that's another matter altogether, If their minds see
that their what their SPIRITS know, then… I am also
not a teacher, if I'm not mistaken the bible specifically
says to be careful when teaching the word, it will go harder
on those that do.I do not need it anymore harder than it already
is! So, either I'm confuseed :-P by your post or visa-versa
With the spirit of LOVE bonnielyn
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:48:54
Comments
help I'm a baptised witness who has a child who was abused
by a teacher at his school. I'm in turmoil now as I cant't
believe Jehovah would allow this to happen with his organisation.
But whose who I have spoken tell me your in the wrong. I can't
believe this. I need to talk to someone who understands what
I feel.
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:55:02
Comments
rich thanks for the reply i,m going out for the day .so i
don,t have the time now to answer but you show alot of wt.
indoctination. and thats were your eternal life is in jepordy.
john
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:59:17
Comments
Dear HELP!!! If you haven't done so call the police! Call
a doctor!!!! Do not let no one tell you that you are at fault,
this is now the time to help your child!!! Please email me
fursie@sbcglobal.net send me your phone number and I will
call you immediately, I can't help much more than that, you
may be able to find Bills phone number on here too, or email
him! But first Call the police and Doctor, I would think that
Doctor first!!!! I am so very sorry for what you are going
through right now!!! All of us are here for you. Email me
for personal talk!!! Please!!!
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:03:01
Comments
Dear HELP!!!! HERE ARE SOME LINKS AND SOME ASSISTANCE TO,
LOOK INTO THIS; If your child is Molested what is the first
thing you should do? http://www.discribe.ca/childfind/educate/jic/victim.hte
http://www.ncvc.org/infolink/main.htm
http://www.ci.san-carlos.ca.us/police/childsab.html
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:12:03
Comments
Dear HELP!!!! I HAVE COPIED YOUR POST AND SENT IT TO MR. BOWEN
TOO, If he gets it I am sure he will have approved of my copying
the links he has provided on this site and my advice to go
to the police if you have not done so already, and the Doctors!
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:48
Comments
"
As Jehovah's people, we don't need to question things that
are our brains can't begin to comprehend." ***********
How's THAT for some indoctrinated WTS Propaganda? NEED I SAY
MORE???? (That quote is from *Amanda* 8/11/02 6:01 AM, Message
27 in Discussion <JustJWs@groups.msn.com>)
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:20:46
Comments
Dear Help! Re-reading your post has made me confused, I had
thought the abuse has happened recently may not, by the sounds
of it, it might be the confusion regarding the WT policies
and the lamb site that you need help with. I am sorry if I
got the wrong impression by your cry for HELP I reacted to
that. I hope that your child is okay and if this happened
awhile ago and it's the issue's here and with the policy that
you need help with then I'm sorry for my jumping the gun so
to speak! I am still here and we are all here, if you want,
you can still email me. and please let us know that your child
is okay! or as okay as he/she can be after an abuse! love,
me
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:28:01
Comments
Regarding - How's THAT for some indoctrinated WTS Propaganda
- Oh how that has hit home! Here I am, telling myself still
that the things that I don't understand in the word are not
for me to question! I will feel blessed though, that I do
not depend on another to explain them to me - I just figure
that HE has not given me the understanding as of yet and with
faith HE will in HIS time! Am I just to hard headed, not to
depend of ANYONE else but HIM to lead me with understanding?
Is that not what the word itself says? With faith one CAN
move a mountain! Well, how about a Tower too!!! :-) me
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:38:19
Comments
Congratulations to Bill & Barbara and the rest of the
team at Silentlambs. NY Times story is great!!! Keep pushing
WTBS to tell the truth to the press to the public and most
of all the Congregations.
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:55:30
Comments
Dear TIP/tippyk9@yahoo.com: Glad you find this site helpful.
There is no official "newsletter," but you can sign
up for the email list, to be sent any info as it is dispersed
by Silent Lambs. To get on the email list, please go to the
HOME PAGE, SEE the two rows of "BLUE BARS" across
the TOP of the Home Page, and click on the one that says "ADD
ME TO EMAIL." That will open up a blank email in your
email program addressed to: Editor@silentlambs.org ** And
that is how you get on the Silent Lambs Email List. *****
As far as your generous offer to assist in producing a "newsletter," I
would suggest that you contact DIRECTLY the owner of the Silent
Lambs website, Mr. Bill Bowen, with your offer, since I'm
sure all offers of assistance are appreciated. Please again
go to the HOME PAGE, and NOW PLEASE SEE the "BLUE BARS" that
run along the LEFT COLUMN of the HOME PAGE. The second one
down says, "HELP SILENT LAMBS" which provides specific
ways you can help, and/or it tells you how to contact the
site owner to offer whatever assistance you can, i.e., write
to: Assistance@SilentLambs.org ** Thanks again!
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:18:06
Comments
Dateline, Panorama, and now the New York Times article!!!
I believe its high time we recognize something. Recognize
the Hand of God being involved. It is clear, Jehovah God is
USING Bill Bowens & Company as His instruments of destruction!
Who would doubt that now, I ask? God is using Bill Bowens,
the Anderson family and others just like Jehovah God used "Gideon & 300
men" to rout 135,000 midianites-amalekites-easterner
invaders to Israel. A seemingly impossible feat for a small
band of brave souls. (Judges 7:12; 8:10) But Jehovah gave
the victory, which was foretold in a "dream" and
told to Gideon. The "dream" indicated Jehovah had "given
the entire camp" of the enemy into the hands of "Gideon" and
his small band of 300 men! Gideon understood the "dream" and "worshiped" God
after hearing it. Because he knew then he truly had God's
full backing for the defeat of this enemy of such larger proportions.
(Judges 7:12-15)********So, what do we learn from this? The
WTS is much larger and more powerful than any one person.
It would seem impossible, looking back a year ago, that the
things we are seeing, are a reality now. I'm sure when Bill
started, it couldn't have imagined just how things were going
to turn out. But, he knew he had to stand for "right",
and somehow trust in Jehovah that things would work out. And
they have! So what do we learn from all of this? Doesn't true
victory come from Jehovah!********From what we are seeing,
learning, Bill Bowens & company are relying upon Jehovah
completely and God is blessing their efforts. They are succeeding
because they recognize that they are just like the warrior "Gideon
and his 300 men" in this battle against the Governing
Body. (Judges 7:1-7)They know, it is Jehovah that has granted
success. No, Jehovah is not using big fancy Circuit Overseers
and District Overseers, Missionaries and Bethel "heavies" (who
continue "hide behind the scenes", but who are all
proven by now, yellow-belly COWARDS in reality as everyone
can see). Not but Jehovah is using the "lowly one",
the humble ones. Jehovah is using a very small humble group
of brave, alert men & women to accomplish this great "salvation".
Jehovah is "reproving" the worldwide organization
of JWs of wrongdoing, Governing Body and all, using only a
few good men and women. And rightly, God does this so that
we, all Jehovah's Witnesses, would have to know that it is
He (God Almighty) that is behind all of this. And it is He
that has gained the victory using His Almighty Power against
the "evil axis of Brooklyn Bethel". God is showing
us all, that He does not condone the Governing Body's works
of evil. He is showing that any wickedness done in His Name
done by the WTS, even if it is "concealed", will
during a time of judgment be fully exposed! (Luke 8:17; 1
Timothy 5:24) **********So then, the battle is "Jehovah's
and Gideon's". Now we must ask, who will be brave enough
to JOIN the "silentlambs" now, and be on "Jehovah's
side" of the issue? Like Moses asked, "WHO IS ON
JEHOVAH'S SIDE -- TO ME!" (Exodus 32:26; Judges 7:16-18)******Finally,
for jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net, who asked, "Where
shall we go", AFTER we leave the WTS? The answer: Jesus
promised his disciples, "where there are at least two
or more gathered", he would be in their midst. So a congregation
is a group of people, 2 or more, meeting together to "incite
to love and fine works". And it only takes two people
to do this. So we are already a "congregation" of
Jehovah's worshipers. (Matt. 18:20; Hebrews 10:24, 25) We
are those who wish to "flee away from idolatry" of
the WTS. We continue to meet here, at "silentlambs",
in the interest of protecting innocent children. We meet right
here, where we can freely "speak truth to one another" as
God wants. Jehovah has provided you with many faithful brothers,
RIGHT HERE. So then, you have all that you need. You do not
need to go back to wickedness at the kingdom halls. You are
where you need to be right now. (Zech. 8:16; 1 Cor. 10:14)
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:44:15
Comments
BAS www.antijehovahswitness.com asked: "If the following
watchtower policy is true: 'There are certainly no sanctions
against any congregation member who reports an allegation
of child abuse to the authorities'"... ----- Dear Bas: "THEREFORE,
ALL THE THINGS THEY TELL YOU, DO AND OBSERVE, BUT DO NOT DO
ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS, FOR THEY SAY BUT DO NOT PERFORM." (Mt.
23:3) ----- Remember, what you quote comes from the WTS' PUBLIC
RELATIONS DEPT., and as it says right on that page, it is
for the sole BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC (i.e., to quote the site: "[JWs]
have made sure the PUBLIC has access to [this information]..." -----
Their PR Statement also is for the purpose of "schmoozing" the
JWs themselves. ----- HOWEVER, what does JESUS think about
PUBLIC RELATIONS statements by his so-called "earthly
organization"? He says, "TAKE GOOD CARE NOT TO PRACTICE
YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IN FRONT OF MEN IN ORDER TO BE OBSERVED
BY THEM; OTHERWISE YOU WILL HAVE NO REWARD WITH YOUR FATHER
WHO IS IN THE HEAVENS." (Mt. 6:1) ----- What you refer
to was a last minute PR "SAVE FACE" POLICY put out
AFTER the WTS' hide was already in a sling. It did NOT come
about as a PRO-ACTIVE MEASURE out of the goodness of their
hearts, but AFTER THE FACT, as DAMAGE CONTROL, once they realized
they were being EXPOSED for the hypocrites that they are.
[As an "anti JW" I would think you would already
know these things. True, it takes a lot of effort to keep
up with the slick maneuverings of a "greased pig." The
TIMELINE of the WTS' so-called Child Advocate Policies such
as this one, has been exposed all along via this site, the
emails sent from this site, and the other long-ago- established
sites that keep watch on every move of the WTS. Yes, it would
take a lot of reading to go back and play catch up, but it
can be done.] "Truth Is Stranger Than Fiction." /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:57
Comments
BAS www.antijehovahswitness.com asked: Why was B. Bowen DF'd?
----- Answer: The "charge" was "causing divisions
in the congregation." And Praise Jah for that! Finally,
THE TRUTH OF ABUSE IS OUT FOR ALL TO SEE, and we get to see
WHO REALLY IS ON THE SIDE OF THE TRUTH! And it isn't the WTS
and their Legal Machine, who went into High Gear to get rid
of the ones doing the EXPOSING (without eyewitnesses, without "defense" witnesses
being allowed to appear, no fair hearing, etc. etc.) Why not
get yourself on the Silent Lambs Email? The info about that
is in a post above. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:05:52
Comments
Dear Help: I am so sorry to hear about your child. Having
the trust of an "authority figure" such as a teacher
or others, cross those boundaries of trust in such an abhorrent
way, is heartwrenching and shattering. Was the teacher prosecuted
for his/her crime against yoru child? ----- As for this site,
none of us could believe it at first either (yes, we BELIEVED
the JW abuse victims, but our minds had trouble grasping,
as you state, that Jehovah and/or His "Org" would
allow this to happen). Well, other atrocities have happened "in
the name of Jehovah" across the milleniums so, once that
fact is called to mind, then we can move forward and FACE
THE REALITIES of this. First, you need to RESIST GOING INTO
DENIAL/TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS that JWs/WTS are "perfect";
then PRAY FOR STRENGTH to Face The Facts; then READ ALL YOU
CAN, here and elsewhere. All of us cried bitterly when we
first learned these truths about how "Jehovah's ORG" has
pedophiles too, and how Jehovah's ORG has handled/is handling
these things. It takes TIME to digest it, and it will not
be easy, but it must be done lest people keep their heads
in the sand (of silence) and allow abuse to continue. I don't
know what area you are in, but if you want to talk on the
phone, please see the HOME PAGE: HOTLINE: "For victims
of child abuse who need further assistance [OR] for anyone
to call to present material to establish hard evidence of
Watchtower Abuse [OR] to provide information about where to
go to get help. 1-877-WTABUSE, 1-877-982-2873." If you
are in my area, Silent Lambs has my phone number and you can
get it from them. We've all been where you are emotionally/religiously.
If you are not in my area, SilentLambs has a network of friends
in other areas, and I am sure either they will help you and/or
they will direct you to someone in your area whom you could
talk to personally. Hang in there! Talking/writing/ reading
DOES help tremendously! So please come back and tell us if
you got the help you are needing, and if/when you are feeling
better. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:22:39
Comments
The Jehovah's Witness organization is dominated by sexist,
small minded, ill-educated men. Young people, especially woman,
are extremely vulnerable to the emotional, spiritual, and
physical abuses that are inflicted and covered up "in
the name of Jehovah". Lesa McLaughlin Chihak LChihak@aol.com
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:26:28
Comments
***********THE MOLE*********** I will say this to those who
need an answer, to remove the doubt. Some will likely condemn
certain information as an airing of our dirty linen before
the public. Strangely, these same ones generally do not object
to the airing of the dirtly linen of other religions and may,
in fact, take great interest in it, even publicize it widely.
But they feel that what happens within their own religious
organization should not be discussed outside its confines.
The hard fact is, among the Jw organization today there is
simply no possiblity for such discussion to take place. Anyone
attempting to do so would be viewed as showisng a rebellious
spirit and would only result in further action in removal.
Since the information cannot be discussed within, and if it
is not to be discussed outside the structure, that means that
it must be left undiscussed, ignored. Some of course, would
like it to remain that way but to many of us are now whispering
and others such as myself are posing questions that could
only lead to more questions. If the Organization can leave
this matter without a response, so they will reap the rewards
from many of us who have serouis doubts now. No one today
has a divine commission as a prophet or an apostle, but we
can follow thier example and do what is right, as Ray Franz
and Bill Bowens is doing. Alerting people to the realities
and aid them to arrive at the right conclusions. "I can
say this, that Ray Franz and now Bill has made me ponder more
seriously than ever the meaning of major portions and teachings
of Christ............***The MOLE****
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:29:15
Comments
Rich: Thank you, thank you, thank you. So your Kingdom Hall
parking lot is infested with demons? They follow people home
in their cars do they? Hang out by the door, maybe even smoking
evil spirit-world cigarettes while waiting to pick out someone
they feel like haunting for the rest of the day? - because
they can't come in, of course not. Do they stay with these
hauntees until they can hitch a ride back to the Hall for
the next meeting? Thank you for posting to this site and making
the Silent Lambs point. Thank you for firing off the 'vengence
is mine' snippet. Thank you for showing how you use it to
justify standing by while a child is abused, while someone
that tries to help is chastised right out of the organization.
Thank you for being so open that you would let eveyone see
that you are a certifiable, superstitious nut. Thank you for
the entertainment. It would be a bit more enjoyable if the
stakes weren't so high. - Buster
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:31:58
Comments
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! to SILENT LAMBS.ORG, to SILENT LAMBS
INDIVIDUALLY, to HEIDI MEYER & AMBER LONG!!, to BILL BOWEN & FAMILY,
to BARBARA & JOE ANDERSON, to ALL THE OTHER ADVOCATES
FOR SILENT LAMBS! and to ALL THE OTHER LAMBS INVOLVED IN LAWSUITS
(past/present/future) against their perpetrators/the WTS/their
former congs. --- THE NEW YOUR TIMES ARTICLE WAS ASTOUNDING!!!
JEHOVAH KNOWS HOW TO MAKE GREAT USE OF "Satan's [so-called]
Tool" [THE MEDIA] FOR HIS OWN DIVINE PURPOSES!!! APPLAUSE!
APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! PRAISE JAH IN THE HEIGHTS ABOVE! GOD BLESS
THE LAMBS and THE NEW YORK TIMES!!! --- <SMILING WIDE> /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:37:12
Comments
HOW MANY? HOW MANY? "ONLY A FEW," YOU SAY? THINK
AGAIN: "'silentlambs' has collected reports from more
than 5,000 Witnesses contending that the church mishandled
child sexual abuse." ----- Yeah, SURE, ONLY A FEW + PLUS
+ 4,900 !!!!! [The New York Times, 8/11/02] ----- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:40:22
Comments
"
The church says the number [23,000] is 'considerably lower,'
but will not say what it is." ----- WELL, WHY NOT? IF
IT IS SO MUCH LOWER, WHY NOT SHARE THAT PIECE OF "GOOD
NEWS"? Would we not be HAPPY to hear the "considerably
lower" number? ----- [The New York Times 8/11/02] -----
/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:46:20
Comments
Bonnielyn: Looks like I didn't read your post carefully enough.
I inferred your statement 'never left the truth' to imply
that your were still in. I missed that you never were in.
It did seem a bit out of character - Confused (Buster)
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:50:22
Comments
PEAK INTO THE MIND OF A PEDOPHILE and THE MIND OF HIS LUKEWARM "OSTRICH-LIKE" SUPPORTERS: "The
man she was accusing INSISTED that Ms. Meyer had MISINTERPRETED
WHAT HAPPENED. The elders AGREED." [The New York Times
8/11/02] ----- "LET THE ONE WHO HAS AN EAR HEAR WHAT
THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CONGREGATIONS: I KNOW YOUR DEEDS, THAT
YOU ARE NEITHER COLD NOR HOT. I WISH YOU WERE COLD OR ELSE
HOT. SO, BECAUSE YOU ARE LUKEWARM AND NEITHER HOT NOR COLD,
I AM GOING TO VOMIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH." [Revelation
3:13,15,16] ----- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:51:06
Comments
That should have read: PEEK...
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:07:13
Comments
At 3pm/EST, The NY Times article: "Ousted Members Contend
Jehovah's Witnesses' Abuse Policy Hides Offenses" is
NUMBER SIX (6) of the TOP 25 MOST E-MAILED ARTICLES! HURRAY!!!
/SLC http://www.nytimes.com/gst/pop_top.html
Remote User:
Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:29:59
Comments
LOL Buster! I have never lost THE FAITH my faith has alway
been towards HIM! And that I will never lose! If you read
my story of just a glimpse of my abuse you will have read
that when I was 8 years old, I had a step-father that I now
believe HE was using to save me.. My step-father drilled two
things into my brain, 6x9=54 |
