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August 2002 Guestbook - Page 2

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Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
20:33:12
Comments
Guest Book Test August 6th PM

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:11
Comments
TO Linda who asked about THE REPORT: I learned this much so far from other sources: It is (possibly) published by a group out of Florida who call themselves "Two Witnesses Must Come" (as described in Revelation). TWMC for short. They feel the JWs do fulfill Bible prophecy and that the WT will be cleaned up as Israel was cleaned up by JAH. The report supposedly has some charts comparing where TWMC agrees or doesn't agree with the society. I have not seen this report myself, just sharing what I have heard, and everyone's memory is not solid on these statements, so FWIW. Then at <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10732&site=3&page=3> I found this: "The Report" (1994) - ISBN 0-9649409-3-0, with direct quotes from it posted by bjc; and then Dogpatch wrote: "The 'Report' their website at www.the-report.com/overview.htm; and this same Dogpatch did a report about The Report at http://www.freeminds.org/history/report.htm none of which I have read yet. Merely FYI. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:02:26
Comments
I just got an auto-reply from Pres. Bush! Here's what it says. /SLC ---------- From: Autoresponder@WhiteHouse.GOV Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:15:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Child Safety Conference 9/24/02 --- Thank you for emailing President Bush. Your ideas and comments are very important to him. For up-to-date information about the President and his policies, please check the White House web site at www.whitehouse.gov. Unfortunately, because of the large volume of email received, the President cannot personally respond to each message. However, the White House staff considers and reports citizen ideas and concerns. Again, thank you for your email. Your interest in the work of President Bush and his administration is appreciated. Sincerely, The White House Office of E-Correspondence ____ Please Note: If the subject of your email was a request for a Presidential greeting, please note that all greeting requests must be submitted in writing to the following address: The White House Attn: Greetings Office Room 39 Washington, D.C. 20502-0039 Please review the guidelines carefully before mailing your request to the White House. The guidelines are accessible at: http://www.whitehouse.gov/greeting/

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:13:50
Comments
HERE'S THE CHILD SAFETY CONFERENCE INFO from the White House Website, FYI - /SLC ----- <http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020806.html> --- On September 24, the President will host the first-ever White House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children held in conjunction with the Justice Department's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. --- * The all day conference, held on the campus of the George Washington University in Washington, DC, will bring together members of the President's Cabinet; federal, state and local officials; law enforcement; corporate leaders; CITIZEN EXPERTS; parents of victim children; and other leaders involved in the cause of missing, exploited and runaway children. --- * The conference will focus on a wide range of topics related to children's safety, including missing and exploited children; runaway and homeless youth; international child abduction; sex trafficking of children; child pornography; child safety and Internet safety, and corporate and community involvement. --- * For FY 2003, President Bush has proposed a 26% increase in funding for the Missing and Exploited Children's Program, which provides training for state and local enforcement on handling missing child cases ($29 million - an increase of 26% over FY 2002). The program also supports the Department of Justice's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force (ICACTF). The President's budget request will enable the Department of Justice to double the size of the Task Force. --- The President will convene a White House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children in September. The Conference will promote public awareness of the cause of missing, exploited and runaway children, and it will bring policy makers, experts, key officials, community leaders, teachers and law enforcement together to share progress made and generate new ideas to help prevent the victimization of children. --- * The President also announced the release of a new guidebook - "Personal Safety for Children: A Guide for Parents." The guidebook is designed to help parents take specific steps to improve the safety of their children, and it includes information that children of all ages can understand. The guidebook reflects the work of experts on child safety from the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Education, the FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. It is available online in English and in Spanish at www.missingkids.com.

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:17:28
Comments
Seems to be a lot of JW Defenders posting here lately. Maybe the presses have slowed down at Bethel and the Bethelites have been ordered to work overtime on the internet. Why don't these people gives themselves a code name or handle? Very annoying when people don't give themselves a name for replies. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:19:32
Comments
Someone wrote: "I think this is an attempt to get money....nothing else." ----- If that were even REMOTELY true for sex abuse victims, then I'd have to say we have been WELL TAUGHT by our mentor, the WTBTS, who is a pro at getting money, to the tune of $951 million in 2000 (or was it 2001)? /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:20:43
Comments
Loris wrote: " Nuf said. As always, Love Ya'll, Loris" ----- And Very Well Said at that, I might add! :) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:23:23
Comments
Someone wrote in reply to a WTS Defender: "OKAY, now I ask, WHO STARTED THE BASHING OF OTHER RELIGIONS FOR HARBORING, DEFENDING AND ACCEPTING PERVERTS?!" ----- Good point! For decades the WTS has bashed the C.Church, et al. Makes them look very bad when their own pedophile issue is exposed. Seems they forgot Jesus' words, "Let he WHO HAS NO SIN cast the first stone." Maybe they will learn not to judge from now on??? /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:31:04
Comments
To the person who wrote to the person who wrote (see what I mean about No Names???): "Sounds to me like many here owe a debt of gratitude to JW's. Everybody is using the name Jehovah, who showed you that, a Baptist?" Yes thank you! Now I think that it would also [be] appropriate if JW's and others would thank the Catholic Church Monk who 700 years ago created the Word Jehovah by combining the vowels from Lord and YHWH together to come up with name Jehovah! Did you thank that person from Christendom? What? you didn't? Why not? Oh, I see, he is part of Satan's Organization. Well, well, how can we use the name then? Ok, let's just pretend we didn't know that then. ---------------------- And, here's another one to add to the list: The society "borrowed" their 2,520 years/gentile times from a man named John Aquinas Brown (an Adventist maybe, I forget). Of course, the society didn't "own up" to this fact until it was exposed in Bro. Ray Franz' book, 'Crisis of Conscience.' It was AFTER that fact that the WTS belatedly gave credit to John Aquinas Brown in the Proclaimer's book. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:39:44
Comments
To BAS who wrote: "I heard Bill's coming to England , UK, and would be interested in seeing it, any info bill?" ---------- This info from http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi?board=Main&message=2741 .DON'T MISS THIS -- .September 13th - 15th A weekend with a difference! . Guest Speaker from Kentucky USA will be ..Bill Bowen -- Bill Bowen will explain how the Watchtower has become a safe haven for paedophiles and why it silences the abused in defence of the abuser. If you are for or against the Watchtower now is the time to speak up and ask your unanswered questions. -- Out of the Watchtower - into Christ! At Cefnlea Mid Wales retreat - September 13-15th. For more info email: "mailto:Exjw@hotmail.com" -- Exjw@hotmail.com or write: The Kingdom Publishers Journal, P O Box 98, Burnham On - Sea, Somerset, England, TA8 2BF .(Postcode essential) Mobile: 07720 863508

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:51:40
Comments
To the JW Defender who wrote: "I chuckle when I see comments like ... Armageddon in 2005”. How about this one, “The JW org wants to establish a new world order and subject it to its rule” (thanks mole for that golden nugget)." ----- Well, (a) Just Wait And See!!! when the WTS' link to the backers of the NWO is revealed, even if it is 10 years from now (like it took 10 years for their UN-connected to be exposed); and (b) I wouldn't CHUCKLE TOO MUCH 'cuz you might have to eat your BwaHaaaHaaaHaaa's before it's all over. ----- As has already been written here, it's not the individual JWs themselves, but the ORG, THE SOCIETY. A simple look at the Mountain of Evidence of THEIR OWN HISTORY clearly shows the magnitute of their erroneous ways. It's hard for a child to see the "error of their [spiritual] parents' ways..." Sadly, sooner or later even every JW will have to look at the dirty laundry, whether willingly or whether forced to face the facts. It's sad all around, but it MUST occur, as it is ALREADY occurring. LET HE WHO HAS EARS LISTEN. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:54:20
Comments
To rby who wrote: "please keep me informed on the latest dealings in regards to the Jehova's Witnesses: court cases, child molesters uncovered, etc.. my e-mail is rby05371@yahoo.com." ----- My suggestion would be to get on the Silent Lambs mailing list (see the HOME PAGE, top bars. As for other JW News & Events, check frrequently at www.jehovahs-witness.com forum. Any late-breaking JW news is always posted there as soon as it occurs. Or, check some of the xJW links and sign up for their email notices. Just a suggestion. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:56:22
Comments
Loris: That was a perfect explanation of why B.Bowen is seeking an appeal of his DF decision. I knew internally but could not have expressed it so well. Thanks. And as for the St. Pete newspaper, Good Going! Probably any child in the area was too fearful to go public in a newspaper with their story. Glad to hear things are rolling along! Love yooz guys/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:59:16
Comments
To whoever replied to JW Defender by asking, "For clarity would you specify which PERSON corresponds to the BAD APPLE?" and then giviing a Multiple Choice Answer ----- LOL! Perfect description/Multiple Choices of Bad Apples. Well done! Now stick those Apples on a popsickle-Stick and dip them in oooey gooey caramel (enough to cover the true condition of the rotten apple) and hand them out on Halloween to every JW that comes to your door. :-) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:01:27
Comments
Hi Mr. Mole, who wrote: "They usually justify this by misusing the lord's statement, "let the dead bury the dead." ----- I'd like to add to that by saying the Society also repeatedly used the scripture where Jesus said, "You will always have the poor with you," to suggest that we should not waste our time helping the hungry, needy, etc. -- Hope you're doing okay, Mole! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:04:35
Comments
To whomever wrote: "I am confused as to what the mission of this site is." ----- For a Refresher Course, read the Home Page of this site and associated sections of this site. The purpose of the site has not changed. If victims have become friendly and wish to use the guestbook to discuss other areas of their association with the WTS, What Of It? "New victims" are still "coming out of the closet" and posting here. Stay tuned, don't touch that dial, the New Season is beginning... /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:06:09
Comments
Right on Buster. I learn more every day, now that I am not afraid to learn anymore, which most JWs are still in denial and afraid. It takes time, but worth taking a peek at the WTS's history without our Rose-Colored-Glasses On! (Buster had written: "I am talking about core beliefs - the very basis that you claim to cling to. There is no baby in the bathwater - toss it. - Buster"). - /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:07:49
Comments
THANKS Claudine for the well wishes. And glad to hear you visit Channel C and J-W.com. I can't keep up with either, but I keep trying! How's life treating you this week? Some of my stress is off, now to play catch up! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:13:36
Comments
DID YOU GUYS SEE THIS? ANYONE LIVE IN KY and CAN GO SUPPORT BILL? (Seems Motel Rooms are becoming more popular) ----- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:45:31 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: New invitation --- Below is the letter I just received at 10:30 this morning by way of my attorney. It appears the announcement will not be made this Thursday night, for that reason I will not be attending Thursday. I now wish to invite anyone who might like to appear before the appeal committee as “witnesses” to whether I have actually caused divisions in the congregation. If you would like to offer support in that regard please let me know. --- 270-527-5350 and I will be glad to explain further. Regards, bill --- Princeton Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses -- c/o Presiding Overseer 901 Hopkinsville Street Princeton KY 42445 -- 8-6-02 -- William H. Bowen P.O. Box 311 Calvert City, KY 42029 -- Dear Brother Bowen, Arrangements have made to hear your appeal of the decision made by the judicial committee that you should be disfellowshipped. The meeting has been set for Sunday August 11, 2002 at 5:00 pm, at the following address: Conference Room of the Holiday Inn Express, 173 Carroll Road, Benton, KY. -- Your Brother, Daniel L. McMullen Chairman Committee Fax: 270-365-5334 cc: L. Rush Hunt, Attorney at Law

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:27:30
Comments
Hey BLM! Your question about whether it is a crime for WTS to send pedophiles door to door... one would think so. If not criminal then I would think civil neglience would apply should anything occur. However, why not write Pres. Bush and ask him (and it could be a topic for discussion at his Child Safety Conference on 9/24/02!) Keep up that sharp brain of yours! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:35:17
Comments
To the person (WTS Defender) who wrote that we were wasting our time sharing scriptures with our own "application" of those scriptures... I ask that person: Are not the scriptures ALIVE and exerting POWER? If they are ALIVE, then they BREATHE into EVERY human circumstance throughout EVERY generation. Therefore I say unto you: If the shoe fits! --- Is it logical there only ONE application for ALL scriptures? Even the WTS doesn't teach that narrow view, so why do you think that way? -- However, if scriptures don't do it for you, how about some quotes direct from God's Channel itself (a/k/a literature)? Stay tuned and I'll have a nice list of WT quotes for you in a day or two. Best take off your shoes and go wash your feet between now and then because you will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh? /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:01:33
Comments
TO the person who wrote: "book of the month club". LOL! I never even thought of that before. Funny. As a matter of fact, I read a post today that someone figured out that JWs read an average of 3000 pages of WT literature per year. Then I did some figuring myself and came up with this: 11 years as a JW x 3000 = 33,000 pages. My NWT says it has 1340 pages. If I had never read any of the WT literature during those years, I could have read the Bible 24.5 more times during that time frame (in addition to the regular Bible reading we did as part of the cong). /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:25
Comments
REPOSTING, since the website has (thank you!) been updated/divided tonight (August Part 1), and this got lost in the updating. This was posted FIRST, earlier, before the White House reply, etc. ----- NOTICE/FYI: I heard on the news today that, due to the recent kidnappings, etc. in California, Pres. Bush has scheduled a conference at George Washington University on 9/24/02 re: Child Safety (missing, exploited and runaway children). Exploited would cover child sex abuse, so wouldn't it be great if George W. invited B.Bowen & B.Anderson, et al, to the conference to speak about religious organizations who exploit children? We don't we all email him and ask? I already emailed Pres. GW Bush and suggested this at: President George W. Bush president@whitehouse.gov (Of course, only if Bowen and Anderson would WANT to go, that is...) ----- See auto-reply above to the email, and see above the info on the conference from the White House website. Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:15:01
Comments
REPOSTING to Linda: (This one also seems to have gotten lost in the website update): You asked about the year 2005. The only thing I have seen so far is at this site: <http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm> I believe (didn't read it, too tired) they are taking the 1935 year of the Great Crowd new light and adding the 70-year lifespan = 2005. Here's the info from that site, FWIW. /SLC ------------------ *** Watchtower 1997 September 15 pp.10-15 Will You Be Faithful Like Elijah? *** 10 Who, then, was this coming Elijah? His identity was revealed when Jesus Christ said: "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; and if you want to accept it, He himself is 'Elijah who is destined to come.'" Yes, John the Baptizer was the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Matthew 11:12-14; Mark 9:11-13) An angel had told John's father, Zechariah, that John would have "Elijah's spirit and power" and would "get ready for Jehovah a prepared people." (Luke 1:17) The baptism John performed was a public symbol of an individual's repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead the Jews to Christ. (Luke 3:3-6; Galatians 3:24) John's work thus 'got a prepared people ready for Jehovah.' 11 The work of John the Baptizer as "Elijah" showed that a "day of Jehovah" was near. The nearness of that day when God would act against his enemies and preserve his people was also indicated by the apostle Peter. He pointed out that the miraculous events that took place at Pentecost of 33 C.E. were a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the outpouring of God's spirit. Peter showed that this was to happen before "the great and illustrious day of Jehovah." (Acts 2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32) It was in 70 C.E. that Jehovah fulfilled his Word by causing the Roman armies to execute divine judgment upon the nation that rejected his Son.-Daniel 9:24-27; John 19:15. 12 However, there was more to come after 70 C.E. The apostle Paul associated a coming "day of Jehovah" with the presence of Jesus Christ. Moreover, the apostle Peter spoke of that day in connection with the yet future "new heavens and a new earth." (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Peter 3:10-13) Bear in mind that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" came in 70 C.E. All of this taken together indicated that something further would take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done. What is that? [...] Be Faithful Like Elijah 21 With zeal like that of Elijah, the small remnant of genuine anointed Christians have discharged their responsibility of caring for the earthly interests of the enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:47) And for over 60 years now, God has been using these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life eternal on a paradise earth. (Matthew 28:19, 20) How grateful these millions can be that the relatively few remaining anointed ones are zealously and faithfully caring for their responsibilities! 22 This Kingdom-preaching work has been accomplished by imperfect humans and only in the strength that Jehovah gives those who prayerfully rely on him. "Elijah was a man with feelings like ours," said the disciple James when citing the prophet's example of praying in order to show the force of a righteous man's prayer. (James 5:16-18) Elijah was not always prophesying or performing miracles. He had the same human feelings and weaknesses that we do, but he served God faithfully. Since we too have God's help and he strengthens us, we can be faithful like Elijah. 23 We have good reason for faithfulness and optimism. Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that the great "day of Jehovah" is near. [Emphasis Added] *** Watchtower 1997 October 1 p.23 Grateful for a Long Life in Jehovah's Service *** Confident in Kingdom Hope In 1935 we came to understand that the "great crowd" was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth. (Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking. [Emphasis Added]

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
00:04:05
Comments
TO ALLTHE FOOLS HERE WHO KEEP CALLING THE WT GODS ORG. THE Spirtual israel etc. read jn:7:18 and write it in your forhead then read and study until you UNDERSTAND awake 5-22-90 pg. 12-13 fallacies in arguementation.then take a hard look in the mirror then truthfully go and tell yourself jw's are the god of the bible his choosen people. the jehovah of brooklyn and the god of the bible are NOT the same. cause the creator says thou shall have no other gods before him. and a true messeger of god will have no falsehood or lie.now lets see about the wt record , the time of the end started in 1798,99 1829,31,44,65,72,73,75,81,1905,07,10-12,18,20,21,32,check heb. 1 to see when the last days started jesus returned to kingdom power 1874 1914 thats not what it says in eph1:20-22 mat 28:18 col 1:13-20 all menbers of the wt were to go to heaven in 1881, 1912,1914,15,21,32 the world was to end in 1914,15,25,41,51,54,75,86,89,2000 etc. remember these are all god,s dates and if any jw questioned any of them the wt god would destroy themfor not being meek to the fds.don,t forget jesus judged all religions in 1918 and just loved the idea that anyonenot a follower of russell body would be picked to the bone by vultures in 1920 ie the finished mystery. i know you here the praise the angels gave to god when jesus released the judge from prison in 1918 . i,ll quote a 1959 wt in 1918 jehovah god caused judge rutherford to preach million now living will never die the world has ended . if my calander is correct the end didn,t come in 1925 issac jacob, abraham didn,t come to become leaders of london, newyork r,jerulesum, and nobody would go bald after 1926. don,t forget rutherford was more sure about 1925 than noah was about the flood . any jw want to go to venus the wt said it,s a paradise thats were your jehovah sent the dinosaurs. let the wt measure your nose and skull to see if smart enough to do the preaching work. get your mericle wheat 100 fold better than normal wheat here that farmers. having trouble seeing how great wt wheat is order wt radium glasses to help correct your vision. Icould go on for months with the proper food at the proper time that jehovah,s spirit org. has printed. i drive a truck in bronx ny i stop everytime i see a wt zombie in the street and use the bible and thier own books to make LIARS out them show them they follow a false christ. but of course i,m not meek because i follow the bible to prove all things true and not worship the WATCHTOWER.and just believe what the fds says with out testing it. jw,s have no reasoning power they read one verse to you and say see were gods people. and feel justified never willing to test weather thier teaching hold any weight. when invited to a kh i love to ask if they read these old wt books most times they will yes until i start pulling books off the shelves i love to watch elders and overseers who were brough in to answer my questions foam at the mouth after calling me a liar read it in thier own libraRY. j_chito@MSN.COM IN INVITE ALL INQUIRIES

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
00:45:39
Comments
Hmmm. Let me see. Hello, this is the JW defender responding to SLC. Let me repeat some of the things I said in my earlier post, to refresh your memory. In summary: 1) “Read the bible. See how clearly Jah states time and time again what constitutes fornication, adultery, slander, loose conduct, apostasy, every sin this world is swimming in.” - Can you shed some light on how those sins are handled in your new org, whatever it is at this point? How do you feel about adultery? Fornication? Please share your views, I'm sure the Catholic, Protestant, and Baptist crowd here is eager to see how you interpret God's law, and how it applies to those that break it. Another line from my original post 2) “ Give me a BREAK already with the talk about failed bible predictions. If you read the bible, which I'm sure some of you do, you will find that many faithful men and women didn't have a full understanding of what Jah's purpose was. Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions. What would you say to them?” – Well, I'm waiting for your reply, or anyone else's for that matter. Go on, reach in your back pocket and pull out the reasoning book, follow up with the WT cd, and look in the bible. Please comment and enlighten those who thirst for knowledge. I'll say it again, no matter how many verses you quote, no matter how flowery the language you use, no matter how many quotes from 1901 you use, this site amounts to a JW bashing party. Look at your quotes. Look at everyone's quotes. How often has a child abuse victim benefited from your inane observations? Oh, before I forget, when you reply, please include your view on the Trinity. Also, tell us who is the Faithful and Discreet slave, since you know so much. Since you're so versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary. Anyone that says “you will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh?” is a wise person and should be listened to. lol

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:08:35
Comments
i watched the panorama programme, pleased that it went out nationwide for all of the uk to see the things that are going on, and covered up within the WT organization. My family took part in a BBC 2 programme 5 yrs ago called 'Close up' highlighting child sexual abuse to some extent. My husband was an elder who reported to both the congregation, and the legal desk an allegation of abuse. Both the body of elders and subsequently the legal desk at bethel advised my husband to leave it as "probably nothing would come of it, dont stir things up". The upshot was that my husband told the police of the brothers wherabouts, he was arrested and charged with 4 counts of sexual abuse. He pleaded guilty to 3 of them and escaped a prison sentence, apparantly the fourth would have sent him to prison. He then had to go for some sort of sex offenders course as part of his sentence. This man was supported by the congregation and as far as I know remained as a JW. My husband was so disgusted and horrified at the stance of the WT org he left, and I left shortly afterward. We have since done much exploration into the WT and come to realise, examining definitions and activities, that the WT is a cult and as such is at liberty to abuse its members in any way it seems fit. It devastates me to see all these young people suffering at the hands of the WT policies and I pray that they will eventually 'see the light' and leave. I have almost finished 4 years of training to be a counsellor and I would be more that happy to help some of these young people to get their lives back. Linda Birt e mail lindabirt41@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:38:19
Comments
JW Defender or should we call you Tasty Toes? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I don't believe this is the board or the forum to discuss doctrine. If you want a serious discussion of any of the doctrinal points you listed just take the questions to JWD or similar boards. .. … . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . However I will gladly comment on this quote of yours * Since you're so versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . For over twenty years the watchtower required TWO witnesses to ONE act of child molestation and because of this requirement certain men (Pandela, Fitzpatrick, doubtlessly many others) were able to abuse multiple victims. Now JR Brown tells us that the two witness rule can be used if there are TWO witnesses to TWO different acts of child molestation. Since the Bible is so crystal clear , WHAT CHANGED?

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:50:44
Comments
To "07 Aug 2002" who started off by saying:"Hmmm. Let me see."_____________________________________Lets let our Awake 10/8/68 answer one of your questions. "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?..Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them."______________________I will also include for you this handy dandy bashing suggestions provided directly from our Watchtower Society. http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/wtchurchattack.htm I hope that you can use these examples in your constructive critism of the Catholics, Baptists and anyone else you dislike.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
11:07:19
Comments
TO THOSE WHO DEFEND WTS: Bill is accused of causing division because he stood up against what is grossly wrong and those who are doing gross wrong, and those who are supporting what is grossly wrong. **********The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of the soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentons of the heart.***********************I would say that Bill Bowen and the rest of us here have experienced this aliveness of God's word and the power of it. **********To even think that Jehovah or Jesus would ask for two witnesses to a crime against a child, and the intention was for us to obey blindly is ridden with evil intentions and against the teachings of Christ.**************************Protecting children is not exactly worshipping a Golden Calf, not protecting them is the same as scaraficing them to a god.**************************WTS have divided themselves from Jehovah God against all reasonableness and that is the source of the divisiveness. ****************are we moaning and groaning over the detestible things i.e. pedophila or are we moaning and groaning over the ones who are moaning and groaning over the detestible things?????**************WTS dialogues with "professionals" like Stark who have no vested interest in the righteousness of God, or the any love for the sheep, and then they won't talk to Bill Bowen. Nor will they consider the gravity of pedophilia except to pay it lip service and df anyone who wants protection for children not JUST lip service.**********************Anyone who thinks the theme of all of us is to BASH WTS needs to seriously study their bible and seriously pray to Jehovah for insight. The WTS is bashing Bill and those like him by calling them apostate while the WTS have no love of righteousness and is not even open to resolution. Claudine

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
11:09:22
Comments
Hugs for Bonnielynn !!! She called me with a Stupendous, Fantabulous idea. This is something everyone can do. Big city, small town it doesn't matter. Every place has law enforcement. Ask the law enforcement in your town if it is against the law for an organization to KNOWINGLY send known pedophiles to do door to door canvassing work. Make copies of J. R. Brown's letters and statements from the WTS website as proof. He has admitted that a "repentant" pedophile can go door to door. In fact that is what they are told to do. Yes they go with someone else, but the other person does not know that the partner they have in the door to door work is a pedophile. In fact they could be one too. Neither of them would know since it is all kept secret. So do you think your local law inforcement would be interested? You can bet your Bippy they would !! (Love Ya Bonnielynn) and Love Y'all to the rest,Loris

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:27:47
Comments
I've been reading this site for several months now and I have a question. I agree with all that has been said about the silentlambs. I will get to my question in a minute. My view is that there hasn't been such a tavesty since before the flood when Satan and his demons came to earth and took namely all they chose of women. Today the same situation is occuring, do you not think that Satan is behind this, do you not know that he sees and gets pleasure out of it. My question is why do not the brothers see this? In fact they are covering up for them. So if indeed this is the case, what are we to do? Flee, flee to what....Who else has the teachings of life? Will Jehovah not stand up and settle this matter? jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:42:32
Comments
Only man can make God's Law inequitable...and Jesus fulfilled the law, did away with it and gave us the command to love one another. Two witnesses is a guideline used by WTS in an inequitable way without love. It is used to hide behind when all else fails to cover their tracks. If this were not so, there would be no problem. It did not keep the congregation clean or promote love among the sheep. How many pedophiles on file would it have taken for the WTS to realize that the problem was only getting worst with each act of neglect on their part? I guess they can say that it isn't very spiritual to be upset about not waiting on Jehovah to do something about the pedophiles and ill-treatment of victims. But I guess we can say that is the poorest excuse every heard to do nothing ourselves. So if the "goal" is to have love among the sheep, a clean congregation, to worship Jehovah in truth and righeousness - how is it that such hatefulness exists (pedophilia & supporting them), dirt and filth contaminating the congregation, and lies of selfrighteouness prevail???? Where are the fruits of the spirit and where is this thing called loved? Blind love is blind to righteouness,and truth. It is not the love Jesus recommended. Does Jesus love a pedophile who goes out in service more than a child now grown whose spirit is broken by inequity???? Does Jesus love a pedophile who does his hours, places his magazines and does not take responsibility for the devastation he/she caused???Does Jesus Love those who support a pedophile and re-victimizes the victim with this support. Or is this just all the victims burden to carry??? Is a den of inequity a den of inequity or not? ********************************When Bible truth is twisted to such an extent that right is wrong and wrong is right, one must look to the source of this teaching. Jesus is High Priest and He taught love of what is good, and benefical and he also said that to what you do to the least one of these you do to me. Jesus is watching and reading the hearts of each of us. No one is exempt from this examining of the heart. To allude that Jesus would tolerate the mistreatment of children, the broken in spirit for any reason is against all the teaching of Christ - these were the people He loved the most and died so graciously for. For anyone, even the WTS, to teach any different is apostacy to the true teachings of Christ. The yoke of Jesus is light and it is a wrong teaching to burden the burdened, to break the spirit of the broken in spirit, and to mistreat the innocent by calling them workers of lawlessness. Amen, soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:50:47
Comments
Hi SLC, bjc here. I'd like to mention a few "facts" not correctly understood by most who hear of this book called "The Report". Also a few point about the people associated with it. In reference to "The Report", I've been associated with "The Report" book and related literature and its publishing for over a decade now. *******************In the beginning, the author of "The Report" maintained a PO Box in Florida early on (1991-1994) since that was the first place the book was promulgated thru newspapers to as many Jehovah's Witnesses as could be reached in the area. Nevertheless, it has always been based in Alabama, where the publisher actually lives. (The name "TWMC Publishing" was recently changed to "EMC Publications" by the author of the book.) The author did maintain a couple of websites, www.the-report.com and one before that for a few years, but it has since been discontinued. (1994-1997)***********************I've noticed there is a lot of misinformation about the book and what the book actually says out and projects for JWs on the net, such as Randy's freemind.org and jw.com. This statement is an example of misinformation: "...it is reported they believe that JAH is going to clean up the WT". Absolutely false. They DO NOT believe Jehovah is going to "clean up the WTS". They believe the WTS is incorrigibly wicked, irreformable and will in the end suffer "total destruction" as "Babylon the Great", shortly to be fully revealed. (See page 59 of "The Report" Volume I.) In addition, they also believe specifically that the Governing Body will in time, be revealed as the "man of lawlessness", someone beyond reform. (See pages 168-182 "The Report" volume I.) As you recall, I posted information on the "man of lawlessness" on silentlambs to you and a few others, and you posted it on jw.com. *******************The "Report" shows that practically all of the 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, the people themselves are largely duped by the WTS, given only an "elementary education" of scripture (only fundamental truths, like correct view on "hell" [grave], no "hellfire," no "trinity," man to live on paradise earth", etc. It is easy to prove that many of these very same fundamental "truths" still "live" within the Adventist Community, where C.T. Russell got them in the first place. For example, G. Storrs on hellfire, immortality of soul. C.T. Russell learned these viewpoints directly from him. Also CT Russell inherited his "achilles heel" teachings from the adventists too. Like 1914, invisible parousia, and a 2-stage second coming of Christ. The "Proclaimers" book pgs. 42-48, 132-134, 631 give eloquent testimony.) Of course most know these are all ease to prove falsehoods! In fact CT Russell, history books shows, joined Adventist Jonas Wendell's group between the years of 1870-74, and was a disciple of this adventist for 4 years, and learned everything he could from this man. This is something the WTS will not admit. But, history books reveal Jonas Wendell in 1874, even began to teach the date of 1914. Russell left the group that same year, 1874. However, N. Barbour accepted this, as he was a reader of the writings of Jonas Wendell too, in 1875. You may recall, Jonas Wendell is mentioned on page 120 of the "Proclaimers" book, as having been instrumental to the education of CT Russell in his early years. But whats not revealed is the fact that Charles Russell was a member of his Adventis church, and Wendell was Russell's church leader for 4 years. They just say it was a "learning period" of young CT Russell, between the years of 1870-75, pg. 718 of "Proclaimers" book. When in fact, history books show, he was a member of the Adventist Group headed up by Jonas Wendell. Then after that, in 1876 CT Russell meets N. Barbour, but actually contributes nothing along the lines of any teaching about chronology leading to 1914. This all came all from Adventist N. Barbour. So, the article of 1877 "Three Worlds..." that supposedly was so critical to Russell's learning and spiritual growth thru God's spirit as the the WTS would have us believe, actually came about inadvertently from Adventists teachings, and N. Barbour's being influenced by Jonas Wendell and other Adventists. Russell's only contribution to "Three Worlds..." was some information on the "Ransom sacrifice" and restitution. N. Barbour had the chronology and 1914 teaching. But Russell left Barbour, yes, HE STOLE the 1914 chronology and teaching from N. Barbour and Jonas Wendell, spiritualized the 1874 date as a special "harvest" taking place of 40 years up to 1914, which was supposed to be Armageddon. And so on and so on the story goes...whew! Nevertheless, all of these facts were hid by the WTS from the flock of JWs in general.****************Meanwhile back at the ranch, the WTS has been so successful in fooling non-beroean JWs in general, and fooled them into believeing that they, WTS actually understand bible prophecy and how it applies. But in truth, they never taught the "deeper things of God", like bible prophecy correctly. This "ignorance" of scripture, makes it easy for the WTS and G.B. to pass themselves off as the F&DS, but are actually impostors. "The Report" shows using this insidious format, and misapplying Matt. 24:45 the WTS/G.B. works to gradually lead JWs into false worship of themselves in demanding complete obedience to the WTS/G.B. over Almighty God. Prophecy reveals Jehovah God is of course, aware of all things. Allows the situation to develop, it works out as a perfect "test" of His Name People. It is outright idolatry and will not be tolerated Him. But how JWs are going to see it as it is? That's the question. All are aware that God "shares" His "glory" nor worship with no one, not even Jesus Christ! They know this. But how will they react, as a people, in reality? (See Isaiah 42:8) *****************So God permits all of these happenings which in the end, actually force a serious revelation for all Jehovah's witnesses worldwide. It reveals the great truth that Jehovah's Witnesses are really God's Name people, mystery "Israel" of Bible prophecy. And they are fulfilling it, by their every move and thought. God knows their every move, and speaks of it thru prophecy, AHEAD OF TIME. Showing His "All-Knowingness" or Omniscience of the seeming tragedy, that works out as a great blessing for Israel -- their rebirth as "Israel". (Matt. 19:28; Acts 3:20, 21)This special "knowledge" of being "Israel" is forced upon themselves by the trouble they are led into. But they are delivered from this Great Distress. (Jeremiah 30:7; Ezekiel 20:35-38; Rev. 12:1-6) *************************But first they are "disciplined" for sin, and then God later "restores" them to their rightful place of enormous favor, as His Name people. All the world will recognize this as the eternal purpose of God. (Isaiah 60th chapter) **********************In all of this, we must remember, the "restoration" of JWs is in the future, and only occurs for JWs (a faithful remnant, a "refined third" prophecy says) when they finally learn to SEVERE their ties with their mysterious leader, the WTS/GB. Then, the things are put in place for the "restoration" process to begin. (Zech. 13:8,9) The "remnant" of JWs prove to be the mysterious "third" (the worth redeemables of JWs) spoken of in the book of Revelation 8:7-12 and 9:18-21. But this restoration of "Israel", will take some time. ***************One things for sure, it definitely requires God to take special action against "Israel", to discipline them, as His "sons". His direct intervention as God Almighty, will show all concerned, that they are not "illegimate children" at all, but truly His "Sons", whom He will discipline plainly in the sight of the whole world. They are His Name People for all the world to see and comprehend, and understand. Now, even the nations, the world in general, can LEARN from this display of His Awesome Almighty power to this special people, and they too, can become His servants. They can learn from what God does to "Israel" to serve God Almighty. (See Ezekiel 39:21-24.) *************So, "The Report" reveals that everybody, everywhere will benefit from this scenario! Even the "nations" too, get a learning lesson from all of this. And of course, great praise is brought to God's Name as a result, as God demonstrates for all to see, He is one who does not show any "partiality" toward anyone. He shows no is exempt or out of reach, from the discipline of His outstretched Powerful Arm, not even His Name people. By permitting this situation to develop, God shows to all the world, "Judgment starts with the House of God". (1 Peter 4:17) *****************And finally with this unusual outcome of a seemingly dreadful situation, JWs will reach their final "destination", and realize that "there really is LIFE AFTER LEAVING the Watchtower Society. Wonderfully so! In the end, it will become known to all that the WTS was only a "golden cup" in God's Hand, that he could discard at anytime. His instrument to use as He chooses, and discards when the usefulness of it has been reached. They same way he cast off the nation of Babylon, AFTER they served their usefulness to His Divine Will. If and when they turn on their own, to wickedness and idolatry away from God. (Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20; Micah 4:6,7; Jeremiah 51:7) Jehovah's Witnesses will then learn entire expeience, that it was God all along that had been helping them. It God, and not the WTS! Now, after they learn this, they can rightfully re-gain their original status with God, as mystery "Israel". A privileged status achieved because of embracing these "fundamental truths" possessed by the nation that honor God, coupled with the fact that they willingly shoulded the weighty responsibility to carry God's personal Name upon themselves, as His Name people, ever since the year of 1931. **************Many of you are probably wondering about the year of 1931. Actually, the year of 1931 has an interesting background with JWs as a people. This year is important in the history of all JWs because it started (unbeknowst to JWs) a great, Godly 70-year instructional period of "teaching" as a form of "discipline" for the spiritual nation. The key period being between the years of October 1931 to October 2001. Here are a few points: The October 15 Watchtower magazine made a number of significant changes in that year. (1) Put God's Name on the front cover of the magazine, and has been there ever since, "Proclaimers" bk pg. 124 (2) Removed the cross symbol off the cover of the magazine, yearbook 1975 pg. 148 (3) Removed the names of the editors of the magazine. "Proclaimers" bk, pg. 146) *************Interestingly, point #3 was further emphasized with a follow-up article in the November 1st Watchtower with a straight-forward, hardhitting article called "Taught of God". This article states, "The Watchtower recognizes the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature. The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men...Jehovah God is the great Teacher of his children." The article also went on to say that this magazine, The Watchtower magazine, would be exclusively devoted to bringing out ONLY "God's Truth that he teaches His children." Thus in this way, it was to be clearly understood by all JWs, that Jehovah actually becomes its true editor wherein the Watchtower magazine becomes the "instrument" of God, and not "the instrument of imperfect men", "Proclaimers" book page 143. That's why the names of the editors of the magazine was removed. JWs then recognized that only "truth" should come forth from this magazine, and not the "whimsical" ideas of man. But Almighty God would take the lead in the instructional process of giving His Children, Truth. *****************Then too, previously, in the Sept. 15th, 1931 Watchtower magazine, published a very serious article which was written to all prospective JWs just before the "Special Name Campaign" of October. This article outlined in detail the grave responsibilities associated with "carrying the Name" upon themselves, for all of those who were going to agree to doing this. It was clearly stated in that article "serious consequences" awaited all who agreed to accept this Great Name upon themselves, but later in any way FAILED TO LIVE UP THIS NAME, or they reproached it in any way. It was agreed that God would bring these "serious consequences" upon these people for carrying His name, and for any reproach they heaped upon it. His Name must be honored in all things, at all times. That would their responsibility to see that this became a reality, lest God bring about the "severe consequences" as righteous punishment upon His Name People. (See Watchtower 7/15/81 pg. 20. par. 17.) *******************So it could be said that Jehovah God really did begin a 70-year "discipline", teaching or training period of His Name People, similar to what they experienced while in their exile in Babylon, as Daniel "discerned" for himself. (Jer. 33:32; Daniel 9:2) Thus making it possible for Jehovah to take special action for His Name People, in October of 2001. So, after this 70 year instructional period was up, Jehovah moves into action by pulling "the sheets" off the Governing Body, and exposing them as secret 10-year NGOs for the United Nations in October 2001, on the 70th anniversary of being identified by God's Name. Exactly on time. If God's people have benefited from these 70 years of specialized training by Jehovah Himself, using the "instrumental" publications that bear His Name, they would act appropriately, as true "sons of His". They would act as they should, based upon what they have learned as a people, thru the official "instrument" of God, the Watchtower Magazine and related publications. They would recognize what the Watchtower Society was doing, was pure satanic "idolatry", and would appropriately "flee from it", 1 Cor. 10:14. ************"The Report" asserts that JWs are fulfilling these prophecies as we speak. But, "The Report" shows using Bible prophecy, that JWs will NOT be destroyed as a people, but will be severely disciplined or "chastised" by God, as would be expect of a loving father giving discipline or further training to His Sons. (Jer. 46:28; Hebrews 12:5-7)*********Whats Ahead For All JWs: Based upon "The Report" shows using the prophecy of Ezekiel 34:1-21, Jehovah initially takes action to save two special groups of JWs. (1) The "Tents of Judah" first. These particular "Israelites" (Jehovah's Witnesses)display extraordinary faith in God's prophetic word so as to please Him completely. These would include all JWs who were wrongly disfellowshiped or disassociated and since left the JW organization because of standing for right and maintaining a good conscience with God, and refusing to practice what is wrong because the WTS says so. Theses people are first on God's list to "save". These faithful individuals are one who look to "God's Prophetic Word" as a "light shining in a dark place" with complete confidence. Having "faith", they please their Creator and show outstandingly so, they have benefitted from the "training" God has provided since 1931. (Jer. 32:33; Hebrews 11:6; 2 Peter 1:19) What God has in store for them as a reward, is unspeakably, incomprehensibly wonderful!!!! I won't even attempt to explain that at this time. But its reeeeaaaal good. (Jer. 33:3; Hosea 1:7; Zech. 12:7) Shortly after that great "salvation" by God of which many of you will probably be a part, Jehovah and Jesus will then take immediate steps to bring out of the JW Organization the SECOND group of faithful ones, ones He wishes to save from the wicked clutches of the WTS. (2) These are no less the "Two Witnesses" of Revelation 11:3. JWs who are for "reform". A reform movement within the Jehovah's Witnesses itself, comprised of individual member Jehovah's Witnesses who will push for change and repentance (even if it means disfellowshipment) upon the JW organization's part, (such as we see in the silent lambs movement). These ones will gain a strong following amongs JWs, but will in the end have to leave the organization because of the entrenched wickedness of the WTS and majority followers, who eventually end up in destruction following the WTS/G.B. Revelation 11th chapter shows, God uses these small band of reformers, the "Two Witnesses", in the most incredible way to His own glory and praise, and after leaving the WTS, on to greater "glory" for His Namesake to the world in general, Revelation 11:7-13 indicates. I hope this helps.......bjc2read@yahoo.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
13:20:21
Comments
PS: SLC and interested ones: "The Report" comes in three volumes. So its quite a bit of written material in it. Volumes II and III are still non published works, released to only a few individuals of "confidence". But Volume I is available from the publisher, emcpublications@yahoo.com to all who are interested.**************EMC Publications, PO Box 230445, Montgomery, Ala. 36123*********** Also I forgot to say, information on the "Great Name Campaign" of October 1931 can be found in the "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" book, on page 126. A special publication "The hope of the world is God's kingdom, and there is no other hope" was released at that time, which included the text of Brother Rutherford's talk on the New Name, and the contents of the special "name resolution" which was unanimously adopted by all Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide at conventions around the world. These assemblies started in the summer of 1931 (Columbus, Ohio) and went on to some 50 additional assembly sites around the world. Afterwhich, the Great "Name campaign" began in October of 1931 where everyone possible was given "notice" of this happening. *********bjc

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
13:26:37
Comments
to 12:50:47 Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. I don't like JW's either but come on thats the biggest bunch of twisted words I've ever seen! It gave me a worse headache than trying to understand some of the witness teachings. I think you need to tell the author of this work to find another job or perhaps become a fiction writer. Lets talk about helping the children instead of more twisted prophecy.........Please?

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
14:00:37
Comments
I'll say it again…… This site is nothing but a JW bashing party. If you want me to refrain from asking questions about doctrine to keep me and maybe one or two that have exposed this site for what it is, then I would ask that you stick to what the purpose of this site pretends to be, to help innocent children. I GUARANTEE there would be nothing else for you to talk about. So take your JW bashing to another one of your favorite sites and leave this site for the 3 people that will be left. Lets see how you apply scripture to that one. Also, In case you and all your friends don't know, the posts on this site are typical of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people who typically knock other to build themselves up. I do not get the impression that they are from genuinely abused people. If so, why aren't they on Dateline? The posts engage in name calling, slanderous accusations with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of evidence (i.e. “my whole family was abused by an elder (gimme a break, did you call the police?)), etc. However, I will say this: I honestly and with all my heart hope that some of you have a change of heart. Remove the hate that clouds your judgement, and if you wont return to Jah, at the very least do something worthwhile for children that are hurt not only by those who calim to be JW's, but across the board. Set up a site for abused children period! I'll tell you what, though, I wont be holding my breath for that one.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
14:40:05
Comments
To the JW defender: This actually is a site for abused children. Yes, some seemingly unrelated topics work their way in now and then. But the root of the issue seems intrinsically related to the structure and administration of the WTS. The issue is not about a few predatory, ham-handed wolves in sheep's clothing. It is not about a case, or a few cases that can be attributed to some bad apple(s). The issue is about the Society's handling of the situation. The issue is about what further steps are taken, who is notified, who is protected and supported, who is reported to the police - according to actual WTS policies and procedures. The issue revolves around where the rules originate, how they are disseminated, what happens to those that fail to follow the man-made directives. You are correct that if the topic was limited to people reporting that 'Brother Roman Fingers groped me and the family pets' then the forum would be short. It may feel off-topic to you when someone belabors a point about the fact that C.T. Russel used to sell Miracle Wheat, or that Rutherford and Franz built a mansion in the 20's to welcome the resurrected princes (David, Ezekial, Moses, and their buddies) back to earth. (By the way, he was probably just watching the place, but Rutherford lived in the mansion). But it is quite relevant in this context - it speaks to the self-directed, man-made nature of the organization. You do yourself a disservice by failing to see that the issue is with the organization from its core out to the congregations. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:08:45
Comments
This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8 This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity, without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:51
Comments
WHERE DO WE GO???.....We go to Jehovah and no one else! We petition the High Priest Jesus and no one else. We go to the Bible for God's word and no one else.*******to teach some truth does not give anyone the "right" to lie about other truths.********** A man who supports his family and does one thing right does not give him the right or permission to abuse the same family he supports.***********To give some truth about God and lie about the rest is to lead people into temptation and destruction just the same. To offer half truth is to offer chaos and confusion. One half against the other, a house divided destroys itself. c.e.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:53
Comments
This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8 This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity, without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:29:35
Comments
Thanks LORIS for your comments containing Emeregency Room. I wrote something similiar but it is lost in cyberspace but yours was more eloquent anyway. Just one more thought for the JW defenders and I am one (for the past 35 yrs)...PEDOPHILIA IS NOT A WEAKNESS...NOT JUST A SIN)...NOT A MISTAKE...IT IS AN EVIL COMMITTED AGAINST CHILDREN..AN EVIL CHOICE TO BE EXACT. JW's have no problem judging other religions and people as evil, wicked, etc. but they have a hard time applying it to one of their own. Fine works and scriptural teachings have nothing to do with this cover-up. There are millions of good people who faithfully practive the teachings of JW's BUT there are thousands who are harming our children with the sanction of the GB. If the statistics are correct, there are pedophiles in almost every congregation. Although, you would like to believe that ALL of them are disfellowshipped, the facts show that most are not. You can talk about forgiveness and repentance till Armageddon but it does not apply to pedophiles. The vast majority do not change...they don't repent...until they are caught. WHEN DO YOU FIND OUT IF THEY AREN'T CURED AND REPENTANT?...ONLY WHEN THEY MOLEST ANOTHER CHILD...MAYBE YOUR CHILD...THEN HOW FORGIVING WILL YOU BE? JW's want to believe that learning the Bible will change all kinds of wicked people...and in many cases it does...but not with pedophiles. WHY HAVEN'T WE HEARD FROM ANY PEDOPHILES WHO HAVE CHANGED? IF THERE ARE SOME IN THE WTS..WOULDN'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT IT HERE. Some people are just born evil and it doesn't matter what you do to help them, they are not going to change. Respectfully, jazbug55

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:47:28
Comments
Buster, Loris, SLC, XYZ, 123, ETC, – Once again, since you're in denial, you've converted this site into a bash-for-all. Now why can't YOU all admit something that is proven time and time again on this site? Buster – You say unrelated topics work their way in now and then? C'mon! Buster - You think you answered the question by saying God did not use these men. I hope you're better at reading the bible than reading my posts. Stick to what your stated mission is, don't confuse people that drop in and see messages of hate, of pyramids, of NGO, etc. And if you veer off topic and use scripture, describe what the original fulfillment was, what the greater fulfillment will be, and how we can learn from it. Of course, you will need the WT materials to help you do that, other religions will stray you far, far away from a clear understanding. I was talking about angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people who have a BEEF with the WT for reasons such as hate, pride, and hate. I'd like to ask those people, do you still preach? Did Jesus give a reason to stop preaching? Do you often talk about paradise? Do you teach others about biblical truths? Are you in a congregation? I trust you all know that Christians are supposed to congregate according to scripture. What is the name of your congregation? Are any of you elders in your new congregation? Who is your PO? Where do you worship? How do you handle judicial matters? Oh, oh wait, all you do is post here on this site. I'll leave you in your emergency room. I don't see any qualified doctors.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:02:24
Comments
Dear Brother Bowen: I am so sorry they disfellowshipped you. I too am disfellowshipped for committing fornication with an elder. Is it still all my fault if I am 18 and he is 48. And he got public reproof. Even though I was of age I still feel like a victim of a pedophile anyway thank you for being a voice to stand up and help so many. Love unconditionally Vanessa

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:06
Comments
Help, Help, Help!!!! My brother in Barcelona Spain has been asking lots of questions, and wants to read the August Kingdom Ministry that comments on treatment of df'd family members. Does anyone know where I can find it online? He wants to see if himself. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:11
Comments
Help, Help, Help!!!! My brother in Barcelona Spain has been asking lots of questions, and wants to read the August Kingdom Ministry that comments on treatment of df'd family members. Does anyone know where I can find it online? He wants to see if himself. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:13
Comments
Defender: Careful, you're gonna hurt someone's feelings. It is curious how you dismiss discussions of your religion's origins, it's basic tenets, and its dealings with it's members with such ease. You get right to the indoctrinated Witness speak that fills people with so much "hate, fear, and hate." Perhaps you don't see it this way, but in general Witnesses don't know the bible very well. They approach it as they were taught: as a cosmic game of Scrabble a piece here and a piece there to be assembled as a belief. It is true that they can quote from any number of sriptures and augment it with any amount of WTS commentary that had been burned in by five meetings per week. But do they ever sit and try to get a grasp of what the New Testament is about? What was Paul trying to get across when he wrote his second letter to the Corinthians. What were Paul's concepts of community? Not in my experience. This leaves the majority of JWs vulnerable to interpretations forced on them by an organization intent on its own protection. If the JWs spent more time looking at a bigger picture of the scriptures they would be more driven by the overall gist and less by someone else's interpretation of some snippet of a verse. I think that JWs (and most are quite sincere) would then take up their responsibility to understand what is required of them. They would be in a position to realize that (here we get back to the point) it is not reasonable to expect two witnesses to see a child molestation before you can do something. It is not scriptural to beat a three-year-old half senseless because he can't sit through the second meeting (regardless of how many people give you the 'spare the rod' snippet). They would have enough to realize that their interpretation is wrong and that they should look further. I ahve a dream ... - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:02:34
Comments
who's this brain dead jw defender who posted 00:45:39 aug 07 you want to talk about fornication what does the bible say about fornication with the word of the real creator rev. 22:19 deut.5:11 etc. the nwt is a real piece of work.adultry? have sex with another brother wife ,rape 5 10 kids sorry kids brother molest-alot puts in more time than you besides we just made him an elder he was apointed by the holy sprit. you need to go out in the service with him wear clean panties he.s your shepard mt.18:1-6 slander what wt zombies like you say to change the subject and try to justify yourselves everytime your busted in an other of the wt snowball of lies.see awake 5-22-90- pg. 12-13 fallacies in arguemention it's amazing the balls the wt had in printing what deceptive tacticts they teach thier members to use to make them right. read that awake 100 times look in the mirror each time I BET YOUR SO BLIND YOU DON,T SEE IT cause your a ZOMBIE!!!!!!......loose conduct what do you call going door to door decieving people into a study in what ever book the wt is trying to clear out of thier inventory even if it contains old light and crap you never truly looked up wt books are so bad every verse is twisted when wt talks about themself always using jehovah,s name to glorify themselves. i,ve looked up all about earthquakes wars,famine,1914pestilances,etc. the wt is LYING everytime as well as contadicting them selves.over and over . apostasy what gospel is the wt teaching gal 1:1-10 wt gospel is to summit to wt not to jesus jn. 6:66-69 14:6 5:39-40 etc. jw,s are under the yoke of wt they have no freedom in christ gal 5 1-7 2:4-5 5:45 etc. etc.etc. FAILED PROPHETS /////?????THATS A WT SPECIALTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHAT HAPPENED WHEN NANHAN TOLD DAVID TO BUILD THE TEMPLE THE SAME NIGHT GOD TOLD HIM HE WAS WRONG NOT TO BUILD THE TEMPLE .WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE PROPHET SAID JERUSLEM WOULD BE SPARED JEREMIAH SAID HE DIDN,T HAVE GOD HE DIED IN 2 YRS AS YEHWAH TOLD JEREMIAH WHEN THE DISCIPLES THOUGH THE END WAS NOW JESUS STRAIGHTEN THEM OUT RIGHT AWAY. NOT 80 YRS. LATER WHO is the fds when jesus returns every eye will see him do i need to look up that verse toooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! you gotta love every time the wt calls some old wt book bible truth or some covention forefullment of bible prophecy funny jw,s jump for joy when i talk about about this proper food at the proper time until i open the old books the 2002 wt calls the truth , funny how faces turn to stone . when they don,t want to hear the wt is lying to them now i,m an apostate and i printed this food from the angels go ahead all you wt defenders your either to dum or blinded by your jehovah you worship in brooklyn to see the light when you come to jesus and only him and his father and ask the holy spirit to lead you not bklyn then preach to others lu 11:10-13 NO WT ZOMBIE CAN LAST 30 MINUTES WITH THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE AND THE TEACHING OF THE WATCHTOWER BRCAUSE FOOLS OF THE WT. CAN,T EXCEPT THE FACTS THEY BEEN LIED TOO TRUTH BOOK PG.13 J-CHITO@MSN.COM BRONX NY 19173710332 GOT MY NAME AND PHONE DON,T YOU THINK YOU CAN LAST 10 MIN. WITH ME I,VE NEVER BEEN A JW HA HA HA NOW YOW WANT TO TALK ABOUT 2 WITNESSES AND CHILD RAPIST HAVE I GOT A MILSTONE FOR YOU GIVE IT YOUR BEST ZOMBIE TRY.. IT WILL BE ME TELLING JESUS I FOLLOWED BKLYN....

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:33
Comments
Its gettin' spicy now

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:12:38
Comments
j_chito I WANTED TO SAY IT WILL,NT BE ME SAYING TO JESUS I FOLLOWED BKLYN. LOVE TO ALL IN CHRIST JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:29:10
Comments
JW Defender: . . . . .Did Jesus form the christian congregation first or condemn the Pharissee's first? I'm not sure, but I'll be glad to discuss it with you at www.jehovahs-witness.com. . . . . . . . .I would like to see less posts from "The Report" etc, just email each other, please

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:33:41
Comments
I SEE ALL THE WT ZOMBIES HAVE NOT TRYED TO QUESTION ANY OF MY POSTS J-CHITO@man.com because a simple review of the bible and the wt teachings prove they are a false christ to any interested jw,s in the bronx or lower westchester who truly want to know about the watchtower don,t be shy i know a kingdom hall that has a excelent library and can show you thousands of watchtower lies .if thwy have not cleared the shelves since the last time i,ve been there john tel. 19173710332

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:58:37
Comments
who is this jw jackass aug 7 14:0037 come on zombie read 5 22 90 pg 12 13 for you maybe TEN THOUSAND TIMES hope your mirror don,t crack cause i wouldnot be in your shoes on judgment day never heard you say followers of christ think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you are condemened by your words you have no knowledge why jesus died onj the cross tyhats right on the cross there.s not one jw that can prove different with out half

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:07:41
Comments
who is this jw jackass aug 7 14:0037 come on zombie read 5 22 90 pg 12 13 for you maybe TEN THOUSAND TIMES hope your mirror don,t crack cause i wouldnot be in your shoes on judgment day never heard you say followers of christ think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you are condemened by your words you have no knowledge why jesus died onj the cross tyhats right on the cross there.s not one jw that can prove different with out half quotes or wt garbage i did my HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!!!!! in 30 yrs i have not found one wt zombie who has done the research i have there is no jw flunky that can truely go to the public library or the bible to realisticly back up the wt fallacy. john tel 19173710332 call me and bare false witness in the name of the true creator. freedom in christ to all

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:05
Comments
I think your web site is very needed, and I check it every couple of days for updates. I fully support the Silentlambs march, and I hope it is still on... and hopefully even more thunderously since Bill,s disfellowshipping; because now, there is injustice upon injustice upon injustice!!! We know, do we not, that Jehovah HATES injustice?!! He himself WILL bring the organization into account for it... Just you mark those words!!! I want so much to march with all fo you, but my circumstances will not allow it at present. However, I will be watching the media coverage of it with my FULL support, and Jehovah's, rest assured. My love for all you who love justice and righteousness, JMD. (see Prov.21:3; 28:5; 29:7 NWT )

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:29
Comments
I am so happy that your site exists... I have left the WTS 4 years ago mainly because I have discovered the thruth about the WTS on the internet. But now the child molestation cases is really something that makes me react.Thank's again for letting us know what's happening on a regular basis. My daughter is married to an elder and I dont miss a chance to let them know the real situation about the WTS and child molestation situation ...Thanks to you again ! J-P. (jpbourassa.@sympatico.ca)

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:53
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:01
Comments
I think your web site is very needed, and I check it every couple of days for updates. I fully support the Silentlambs march, and I hope it is still on... and hopefully even more thunderously since Bill,s disfellowshipping; because now, there is injustice upon injustice upon injustice!!! We know, do we not, that Jehovah HATES injustice?!! He himself WILL bring the organization into account for it... Just you mark those words!!! I want so much to march with all of you, but my circumstances will not allow it at present. However, I will be watching the media coverage of it with my FULL support, and Jehovah's, rest assured. My love for all you who love justice and righteousness, JMD. (see Prov.21:3; 28:5; 29:7 NWT )

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:46
Comments
*****the mole***********Time has it where talks now are on gossip and the love of children. The ears of the weak are now being bent to hear the glory of the Society. Many of us have waited but none have come to address a real answer, for week i have sat and tried to read between the lines but no direct mention of any wrongdoing has been mentioned and will not be in the future. My friends and those of us with the same inclination have gathered silently and inquired over dinner the thoughts and ideas of NBC this past weekend. Whether the Organization wants to admit it or not, it was bad PR for them, and not addressing the issue has made it worse. The kindness of Jesus Christ seems so missing in our hall, any warmth of friendship seems to be replaced by a cold orgaizational approach that assumes the worst, gives no benfit of doubt, and viewed with forbearance patience as a weakness. Inimical to the intersts of the organization it has only one goal: uniformity and conformity. With its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold. I find it hard to believe in some ways but my experience being involved with the religion since birth often negates that idea to defend the organization. I can think of nothing that would be more helpful to all of Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere to enable them to have a balanced, not a one-sided, view of what took place, the climate that prevails, these so called men connected to god to be so cold as to really think silencing members who cry out in pain, Reformation is the key and it begins from the inside out.......*******the mole***************

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:42:56
Comments
Nevermind y'all...I found the KM I was looking for. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:43:02
Comments
Nevermind y'all...I found the KM I was looking for. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
19:12:47
Comments
////*Hello, I am sending exerts from the media of statements made from a ‘spokesman' of the Jehovah Witnesses. The reason that I am sending this is to show that THE WT ORGANIZATION admit to knowingly allowing ‘known' pedophiles to minister door to door to the public, to us, to your family, friends, and neighbors! To knowingly allow a pedophile to go door-to-door and minister is potentially putting people and their children in danger. This has to be against the law! Isn't it? Please put a stop to this! The organization has admitted to having files on child molesters. They have admitted ‘internally investigating' accusations, how can they do this without the proper training?//// Louisville Courier-Journal, 1-4-01 J.R. Brown, director of public affairs for the Jehovah's Witnesses, Brown said PEDOPHILES are restricted from working with minors and must also be with a well-respected church member when they GO DOOR TO DOOR. PEDOPHILES also might not be SENT into neighborhoods where they might be recognized as molesters, Brown said. /////*But they are still sent to neighborhoods!///// Paducah Sun 2-12-01 Tennessean/ Nashville……………. Abuse charges put Witness at risk of shunning /////*They have kicked out the witnesses who are trying to help the victims! The ones trying to make this public in order to help us all!///// Saturday, 05/11/02 People in the organization who are accused of sex abuse are subject to a hearing like the one Anderson attended yesterday, Brown said. They are automatically removed from leadership positions and can't go door-to-door without other members' being present. *It is not usual that a door-to-door minister goes alone anyway, because of bible teaching. Anyway who really cares is a sexual abuser is with someone or not, they are still going door-to-door ministering whether they are with another or not makes no difference, they are still going with the Organizations blessings! /////* Comments in italic are my comments and not statements made to the media, which I am aware of. Since the guest book doesn't seem to do the italic thing, I will put my statements between the lines. (Loris, did you do some checking then?, since you posted your message I am thinking that you got some positive response. Not sure about publicly jumping off the fence post, you know what I mean, but I guess the cats out of the bag now!, very mixed feelings, always heard 'in for a penny, in for a pound' so... here's to pounds! :-) As Loris knows from our phone conversation, I spoke to a police officer in my community and asked him two questions...1. Is it legal for an organization of any kind, to allow 'known' pedophiles to go to people's homes i.e.: to sell, teach, do work, etc... He answered NO IT IS NOT LEGAL. 2. I asked, if an organization has made statements to the media stating that they do allow and send 'known pedophiles' to peoples homes, is that a public admission of guilt? He said YES. So, as you look at just the few statements above, not only do they admit in the media that they allow 'known pedophiles' to go door to door to minister, they also ADMIT IN THE MEDIA THAT 'THEY MAY NOT SEND THEM TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT MAY KNOW THEM AS THE PERVERTS THAT THEY ARE!!!! THAT IS A TELLING STATEMENT AND MAKES ME WANT TO... CRY :-( WHO ARE THEY TO MINISTER TO ANYONE, SENDING PEDOPHILES OUT INTO THE WORLD IN THE GUISE OF TEACHING THE TRUTH! WT, I TRUSTED YOU; I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT I FAILED YOU! AND I THOUGHT, BY DOING THAT I FAILED MY FATHER! FOR YEARS I LIVED FEELING LIKE I WAS NOT WORTHY! SHAME ON YOU, YOU STUPID STUPID MEN! SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!! I WILL NOT CRY, WELL, YES I WILL, I WILL .... IT'S WHO I AM. I AM ME, I AM WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ME TO BE, I MAY NOT LIKE WHAT I DO SOMETIMES, OR WHERE I AM AT IN LIFE……… SOMETIMES, BUT, I KNOW THAT THE FATHER LOVES ME AND THAT JESUS LOVES ME AND NO LONGER WILL YOU, WT, MAKE ME FEEL UNWORTHY OF STUPID STUPID MEN!////// lol guess my dander is up. I got my birds to bed; I'm going to go too! FYI, never turn a ‘almost completely empty' bottle of steak sauce upside down so that you can get the last drops!, IF you do, and open it while it is still upside down, it'll explode all over you and your kitchen!!!!!!!! Of course I am sure that a lot of people will have to wait to read it in a wt before believing it!, THAT is not bashing, IT'S BEING SARCASTIC!! It looks as though there is another here that likes to also be sarcastic! bonnielynn

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
19:21:27
Comments
REGARDING the the comment from the mole ----replaced by a cold orgaizational approach that assumes the worst, gives no benfit of doubt, and viewed with forbearance patience as a weakness. Inimical to the intersts of the organization it has only one goal: uniformity and conformity. With its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold. //// As I read this I could almost imagine that you were speaking of Hitler and his followers! New System of things, New world order, New world order, New world translation, hummmmmm? something just isn't right about that, bonnielynn

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
20:14:41
Comments
Poor Defender. It is so sad that you feel bashed. Sometimes looking at things like your systems values just reminds me of how I need to be careful, to be vigilant in Christ's message with me, and others. Why do you wish to debate issues that have no substance? Why do you wish to waste your time? Why do you wish to waste my time? Are you trying to convolute the issues of physical (and spiritual) rape and abuse that is the forum here? (As for dogma) Has your religion ever believed something that turned out not to be true? If so then cut other religions some slack. According to the Sociologist “Stark” one should not comment on other religions unless they have been with them for some time and if you leave a sect then you must be disgruntled, and should be dismissed if you comment on your former faith. Does that only apply to your sect? Do you go to say the “Catholics” and attend church and get their point of view? (Before bashing them and the rest of the world) If not then cut some slack as you and other witnesses ask for.-Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
22:05:41
Comments
Moles Quote: . . .its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold .. . . It's just a Good Quote

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
22:21:15
Comments
John: I think you have peoples' attention - mine anyway. Send a little background. I'm curious that for someone who has never been a Witness (1) how/why have you done the reseach you have, and (2) where you got the facility with the lingo - stuff like 'he puts in more time than you'. I also like reading the delicate way you have of making your point. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:46
Comments
Geez, all I asked for was a straight answer, never got one. What I did get was a lot of name calling. Since you all wont establish what your stance is on the TRUTH with simple answers to my simple questions, then there is no point to continue. Also, I see some are impressed with someone who believes Jesus died on a cross. Name calling, pagan beliefs, hate, no wonder this site is rarely visited by true Christians. Think about it. How much love is in here? Post something constructive for once. For those abused lambs, show them how they can heal with prayer and counsel. Do a search on those shiny WT cd's you didn't contribute anything for, and being a healing process for them. I wont hold my breath for that one either.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
23:46:02
Comments
Geez..You just don't get it and did not answer why. As for name calling was that not your game? Proof has been provided that the coverups of rape and molestation and abuse is fact in the rank and orders of the JW's (Read the newspapers and its on this site) and elders turn a blind eye or intentionaly silence people with threats and intimidation all the works of evil and you want to debate the value of the trinity. Don't you dare try to be a victim grow up!-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
00:11:46
Comments
hate to say this, but i agree with jw, too much bashing going on

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
00:22:19
Comments
SEQ – You are all over the place again. Establish what your current beliefs so people can determine whether or not your comments are worthwhile. Since you wont console the silentlambs this site was created for, if you're going to comment on the history of the WT, let people know where you stand today as a Christian. I don't expect you to debate trinity because you don't believe in it. But keep talking about what you don't believe in and you will lose a LOT of ears here. Stand up for your beliefs, like JW's do. Again, I wont hold my breath for a straight answer, I'll get stuff about pyramids, intimidation, etc.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:39:49
Comments
JW defender asked SLC: "Can you shed some light on how those sins are handled in your new org, whatever it is at this point?" ----- Answer: (a) Who ever said I joined ANOTHER ORG? (FYI: I am "org'd up to my gourd" for now.) Besides, who needs an ORG anyway (Opportunistic Religious Group)? See Mat. 18:20. (b) Read this over and over until it sinks in: Luke 6:37. ----- Then you asked, "How do [I] feel about adultery? Fornication?" Answer: See Rev. 21:8 for starters (and many others, which you are already well aware). ----- Then you state, "I'm sure the Catholic, Protestant, and Baptist crowd here is eager to see how you interpret God's law, and how it applies to those that break it." ----- Answer: Are there Catholics/Protestants/Baptists, etc. here? I didn't know that! I thought this was a JW site! You must have the "gift" of ESP (Extra Senile Presumptuousness). But, OK, I'll play along: If there ARE any Catholics/Protestants/Baptists reading this and committing fornication and/or adultery, please see 1 Cor. 4:4,5; 2 Tim.3:16; 1 Cor. 11:32; Heb. 12:6-24 (and, btw, notice WHO is doing the disciplining), and to top it off, Heb. 12:25: "See that you do NOT beg off from HIM WHO IS SPEAKING... Him who speaks FROM THE HEAVENS..." and Rev. 3:19 (again, notice WHO IT IS doing the reproving and disciplining). ----- Let me ask YOU a question, JW-D: What are you feeling so feisty about anyway? Have you been bitten by the Ministerial Serpent? Helpful Tip: Stop-Look-Listen! Sounds to me like you are thrashing about "directing your blows/striking into thin air" (1 Cor. 9:26). Chill! ----- You continued: " Give me a BREAK already with the talk about failed bible predictions ...Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions. What would you say to them?” ----- Answer: How many erroneous predictions were made by prophets in the scriptures? Let's do a comparison: You can fill in this blank: The prophet(s) in the Bible made ______ wrong predictions. However, just as a sampling, the WTS made 12 predictions that I know of, which did not come true: 'Ever since the very beginning in the 1870s, the WTS for about 55 years (1876-1931) persistently taught that Christ had arrived invisibly in 1874... then they taught that the "remnant" of Christ's church would be changed (1 Thess. 4:17), first in 1878, then in 1881, then in 1914, then in 1915, then in 1925... then they taught that the end of the present system of things would come in 1914, then in 1918-20, then in 1925, then in 1941-42, and again in 1975, and again by 2000... " Shall I continue? Thanks to http://www.607v587.com/ for that documentation, but if you need more, please go to http://users.rcn.com/jjrizo/thelist.doc for 247 PAGES of Failed Watchtower Predictions.) ----- You continued further: "I'll say it again, no matter how many verses you quote, no matter how flowery the language you use, no matter how many quotes from 1901 you use, this site amounts to a JW bashing party." ----- Correction: Not a JW bashing party, but a FDS/GB/WTS bashing party <adding music, everyone join in and sing together now> "It's My Party and I'll Bash If I Want To, Bash If I Want To! You Would Bash Too If It Happened To You!" ----- JW Defender continued: "How often has a child abuse victim benefited from your inane observations?" ----- Answer: For your information, WE (now adult) child abuse victims/survivors are benefiting WONDERFULLY from each other's company here, and enjoying ourselves immensely, I might add. Again, I ask: What is YOUR problem, anyway? Are you feeling left out of the party? There are either of TWO "rules" for joining THIS party: (a) You ADVOCATE for Silent Lambs because you are a GOOD person who can SEE THRU the society's hypocrisy; OR (b) You or any of your children or family can become a sex abuse victim themselves by letting the congregation pedophile babysit them, go out in service with them, run into them in the KH bathroom, parking lot, etc. ----- JW Defender continued: "Oh, before I forget, when you reply, please include your view on the Trinity." ----- Answer: Trinity: Definition: Two JW-pedophiles going door-to-door. When they meet up with the little unsuspecting child at the door, that makes a threesome (a/k/a trinity, 3-in-1). Why are you even asking about the Trinity anyway? Who cares about the trinity doctrine? You're way out in space somewhere, imo. ----- JW Defender asked more questions: "Also, tell us who is the Faithful and Discreet slave, since you know so much." ----- Simple Answer: The one whom the Master, UPON HIS ARRIVAL, FINDS HIM DOING SO. (Luke 12:43-53, and notice the "division" in the "house" of the believers at this time also.) "Let the Reader Use Discernment!" (Mark 13:14) ----- Sigh & Yawn, as JWD continues still further: "Since you're so versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary." ----- Should I really have to even remind you to use your own brain-power here? (Sorry, I forgot you didn't have any. OK, out of COMPASSION I'll explain it to you.) (Btw, DO feel free to give your OWN detailed explanation of why you DO think Jesus & Jehovah would even EXPECT such a thing in child rape cases. Are their hearts as Pharisaically-crusted-over as yours is?) Better yet, K.I.S.S. this scriptural admonition (Keep It Simple Stupid): "LET YOUR REASONABLENESS BECOME KNOWN TO ALL MEN." (Php. 4:5) How REASONABLE is it to EXPECT a rapist to invite "two or three witnesses" to the event? Deut. 19:15 and Mt. 18:16. How REASONBLE do YOU and the GB look to ALL MEN on this matter? Additionally, read the CONTEXT of Mat. 18:16! For pete's sake, fella (or lady), what Jesus was talking about there was NOT CHILD RAPE & MOLESTATION, but as the heading at the top of the page says in the NWT Reference Bible, it is concerning "SETTLING FAULTS" & NOT GROSS CRIMES. AND, if you INSIST on applying Mat. 18:16 to child rape/molestation where there were only TWO witnesses (the child and the rapist), then why do you not also APPLY VERSE 17 and get the ENTIRE CONGREGATION INVOLVED IN THE CONFRONTING OF THE PERVERT? Please DO advise at your earliest opportunity why, when the pervert denies what he has done to the elders in the back room, why don't the elders march him out in front of the entire congregation and present the Perv and the abused child and their testimony to the ENTIRE CONGREGATION as verse 17 says to do???! And then let the congregation as a whole have a GO at their pervert "brother." TELL US WHY THAT is NOT DONE per Mat. 18:16,17?? Additionally, what did Jehovah do with your cowardly, MISapplied "two witness" rule anyway? Read Jehovah's Lips: "He... BLOTTED OUT the handwritten document against us, which CONSISTED OF DECREES and which was IN OPPOSITION TO US; and He has TAKEN IT OUT OF THE WAY by NAILING IT to the torture stake." (Col. 2:14) What did He leave us instead? "THE KINGLY LAW." (James 2:8--and read verse 9 also!). Still not enough? What did Jesus say about the scribes and Pharisees who NIT-PICKED him to pieces about their "handwritten document" (Mosaic Law/Rules/Regs) re: David's men eating the showbread, or the sheep who fell into the pit on the Sabbath, etc. etc.? (Mt. 12:1-14). Read all of Mat. Chapter 23, too: "They bind up HEAVY LOADS and put them upon the shoulders of men (AND Abused Women and Children)." (vs. 4) --- "They BROADEN the SCRIPTURE-CONTAINING CASES that they WEAR AS SAFEGUARDS." (vs.5) (Perfect example is the WT "Broadening" the two-witness rule completely OUT of proportion in order to attempt to COVER THEIR A*****). --- "Blind Guides, who STRAIN OUT THE GNAT but GULP DOWN THE CAMEL." (vs.24) (i.e., Who strain OUT the abused child but GULP DOWN the Perverts.) --- "...You have DISREGARDED the WEIGHTIER MATTERS of the Law, namely, JUSTICE and MERCY and FAITHFULNESS." (vs.23) (i.e., No Justice, Mercy or Faithfulness shown to the abuse victims, but let's go testify in court on behalf of the Pedophile for ALL THE WORLD TO SEE! Talk about Disregarding the Weightier Matters!) --- "They [GB] LIKE... to be called Rabbi [NWT Reference Bible Footnote for Rabbi: "MY GREAT EXCELLENT ONE"] by men." (vs. 6,7) --- "Neither be called [GB] LEADERS, for your Leader is ONE, THE CHRIST." [Note: NOT the GB but THE CHRIST!] ( vs. 10) --- "WOE to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you TRAVERSE THE SEA & DRY LAND TO MAKE ONE [JW] PROSELYTE, and when he BECOMES ONE, you make him a subject for GEHENNA TWICE AS MUCH as yourselves." (vs.15) --- "WOE TO YOU, scribes and [WTS] Pharisees, hypocrites! because you CLEANSE the OUTSIDE of [the Org via your PR Dept.] but INSIDE [you] are FULL of PLUNDER and IMMODERATENESS." (vs.25) --- "... whitewashed graves... In that way YOU ALSO, OUTWARDLY INDEED APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU are FULL of HYPOCRISY and LAWLESSNESS." (vs.27,28) Key word: LAWLESSNESS [i.e. CRIMINAL ACTIVITY] --- "...You are BEARING WITNESS AGAINST YOURSELVES that YOU are the sons of those who MURDERED the PROPHETS (by DF'ing the Silent Lambs Whistleblowers)." (vs.31) --- "SERPENTS! OFFSPRING OF VIPERS... FOR THIS REASON I am sending forth to you PROPHETS [abuse victims who tried to speak up] and WISE MEN [elders who tried to speak up] and PUBLIC INSTRUCTORS [Silent Lambs and the MEDIA]. SOME OF THEM YOU WILL KILL [deny] and IMPALE [publicly deny], and some of them you will SCOURGE [shun] in YOUR [KH] SYNAGOGUES and PERSECUTE [DF] from CITY TO CITY..." (vs. 33-36) --- "Jerusalem, Jerusalem [WTS, WTS], the KILLER of the [SL] PROPHETS and the STONER of THOSE [SL Advocates] SENT FORTH TO HER [you]... How OFTEN I WANTED to GATHER YOUR [abused] CHILDREN TOGETHER (operative word: CHILDREN!!!!!), the way a hen gathers HER CHICKS together under her WINGS! BUT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT WANT IT. LOOK! YOUR HOUSE IS ABANDONED TO YOU." (vs.37-38). --- That is the MOST ALIVE & POWERFULLY EXERTING SCRIPTURE YET! Go ahead, deny deny deny!!! --- (BTW, check out Mt. 12:43-45 - watch out! the demons appear to have already TAKEN OVER your WT house.) - In other words, USE YOUR OWN BRAIN and powers of REASON Jehovah gave you and which your Lord & Master EXPECTS you to USE, rather than nit-picking the two/three witnesses COP-OUT-RULE and MISapplying it to CHILD RAPE as a means to DENY IT and COVER IT UP for the sake of WT "IMAGE." ----- Finally! We come to the end of JW-D's entreaties. He/she said: "Anyone that says “you will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh?” is a wise person and should be listened to. lol: ----- Reply & Grand Finale by SLC: I'm SO pleased to see you DO have a sense of humor! Open Wide, Insert Foot, and please don't leave your shoes and socks in the middle of the floor, now, you hear?

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:53:18
Comments
TO JW Defender: I have officially given you a name: SNOT-NOSE, since you are a typical self-righteous JW. (It takes one to know one). I continued to act the same way as you, spouting off all the typical JW self-righteous rhetoric, until a few months ago when the BRIGHT LIGHT (that keeps getting BRIGHTER & BRIGHTER about the REAL TRUTH of the WTS) finally would not let me shut my eyes to it any longer. Snot Nose is using all the same worn-old lines I used, and I have since seen them all scripturally and factually refuted (i.e., MUST meet w/congregation, must be in a building to "worship"! must have elders handle judicial matters, etc.etc. ad nauseum, ad infinitum, like a runny snotty nose...). Here's a suggestion Snot Nose: Get out of this ER, like Loris said, and please go sign up for this group at msn: Just JWs. It is a true bona-fide JW group. However, they have a Debate Forum, which you are too "young" to enter, so whatever you do, do NOT go into their "Debate Forum," as your SR (Self-Righteousness) will be given a run for its money, all with monumental scriptural and WT-literature backing by JWs just like you. /SLC --- BTW: Our "qualified doctor" is The Great Physician and Healer, Jesus Christ.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:58:50
Comments
I AGREE with whoever said let's slack off on the "debates" here at SL and take it to J-W.com or elsewhere. I AM DONE w/JW-D. -- In JW groups, they always say to IGNORE the "apostates." Well, I say in SL, we should IGNORE JW's such as JW Defender who, frankly, I can't figure out what his/her problem is. -- Good night all (great posts everybody, hope to reply to more soon). Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:00:59
Comments
DID EVERYONE GET A COPY OF B.BOWEN'S EMAIL FROM WED. NIGHT ABOUT WRITING LETTERS IF YOU ARE STILL A JW???? If anyone wants more info, let me know and I can zap you a copy of it! Time is running short, for Sunday 8/11/02. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:16:31
Comments
I have found this web site really interesting,although i am not a member of this group,i feel concern for all the victims and their familys who are involved.The more people who come out into the open to discuss this issue,i'm sure everyone will benefit in some way,the government bodies should really step in and sort this problem immediatly.Incest is a taboo,and should not be allowed to continue,I feel very stong about this,and thank you for letting me share my thoughts .

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:57:54
Comments
buster it,s john my father joined the wt some 30 yrs. ago when i was about 12 i was made to go to the hall for a year or so noone else in my family is a watchtowerite i went to catholic school till 5th grade always believed in god and learned the basics there. for years i heard every day i,m going to be destroyed for not becoming a member . notice i don,t call wt members jehovah's witnesses .because they are not . i know all the zombies in co-op city bx i remember 1975 and hering that that wt pitch a 1000 times about the generation if 1914. and being laughed at for not believing it you know that stupid wt smirk like they know something you don,t .tell me another bed time story. i remember my father sick for 2 yrs. in the early 90,s not go to the doctor because the 1914 generation was due to end any day .what a fool he had cancer had he went to the doctor right away he would be able to use the toilet today. one day 3 yrs ago my brother and i were taking my father to task about a wt mag that said how great it was to quit your job and push watchtowers. we were whipping him pop said the wt is the TRUTH and all that other crap but he but he made a mistake he challanged me to do all the research on the wt i wanted they had nothing to hide. i was amazed all the new wt,s called the old wt books bible truth so i went to the hall and read up day after day i would show pop how they lie about thier past present and future it,s comical with limited bible knowledge i whipped the whole cong. elders po,s co,s they called me a demon in the kh library for exposing a new wt all lies about what was really in those old wt,s the new wt was glorifying.week after week they made fools of them selves when you bust them they just stand there with that stupid smirk on their face. and say you don,t understand what your reading you need a study. this is so funny right now i can,t stop laughing.but really it,s sad to see all these wt ites i know so blind when they go into the field in co-op city they run from me ever see an 80 year old lady run.you know i,m a demon? i always stop and blow up their pitch when i see them talking to someone . the elders told me their going to take me to court . i said go right ahead i,ll sue you and the wt for trying to take away my freedom of speech.they didn,t know what to say they just stood there like ZOMBIES. idrive a truck in the bronx i stop some times 4 5 times a day and ask members if the wt mag is inspired by god they half the time say yes i say them if they truely follow the bible they say yes after they commit themselves etc. i bust them with the material their holding in thier hands a few bible verses all of a sudden the bible has made them liars it,s so easy i set ,em up like bowling pins when i drop the boom they look like ZOMBIES> cause they know i caught them in lies . but at times if i get one alone who,s new they will listen and i give them tons of wt lies to look up hopeing some will see the light i love to work on black people with all the beautiful things the wt has printed about them remember if you pray hard enough you can become white they love that one. it,s a shame how little these people know even members for 40 50 yrs. they all idolize the wt not jesus i have never heard one tell me to come to jesus i know it,s pleasing to god to expose the wt daily .only the lord of the bible could make me so effective.so my question is i see on the internet many who are better versed than i do you do gods will and expose the wt at every chance i know i do freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
04:48:45
Comments
i gave a few simple answers as for the truth you can,t be talking about the teaching of the wt! take your head out of the sand.it,s one lie after another using the name jehovah to golrify the wt.just look at all the child rapist the wt harbors i know a wt pervert in co-op city bx ny his mane is carl gorlsh iv,e seen him many times touch women talk dirty to them grab young girls tell how nicely thier developing talk to women about different sex acts and how they like it.etc and i got witnesses who knows what he does when no one is around i.ve seen him giving the wt pitch and touching at the same time .i know hes gotten complaints. if you live in the bronx he may be at your door. you want to tell me these are gods choosen people . i can,t wait till the law raids the wt office and expose the 23720 molesters then when one of the rapists from your cong. go to trial you can go to court and put your hand on the bible stand there like a good wt zombie and tell the court what a great person he is and how the god of brooklyn said he,s not guilty don,t worry the wt lawyers will instruct you how to decieve the jury shun the raped children then you can walk away knowing your words were pleasing to jehovah in bklyn.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:02:34
Comments
RE: JW BASHING AND WHAT IT IS ABOUT REALLY....for myself I have been betrayed by what I thought was Jehovah's organization. I unknowlingly supported policies,by association with the WTS, that harmed other christians in the organization. The WTS acted without love towards the Malawi's, acted without love towards the ones who have been molested or raped, and/or physically/emotionally abused and continued to put these ones in harms way. ************I read Awake magazines that although a red flag came up, I ignored it - these articles promoted the UN and then I find out that the WTS belongs to the UN.******************I would not tolerate this behavior from a family member or a friend. ******************* It is a bit like finding out your spouse is a liar, a cheat, and has put you in harm's way.*************You said it yourself that it is coming from hurt, bitterness and anger - at myself for being so naive & stupid, and for having trusted the WTS with my spiritual well-being. And like having an unfaithful spouse who doesn't care, they continue to lie or cover-up the problem. And there can be no reconcilation under those circumstances. This is grievious. ********************* I care very much about the ones who have been harmed by rape and molestation. This is why I left and why I am here at SL. This is why I support Bill Bowen's efforts to make public this travesty.*******the so called bashing is a reaction to the very things we all once where seduced by to our own detriment and blindness. A Trust was betrayed - this is a very serious offense against the human spirit. Jehovah hates a liar. *********** Everyone here is a lover of Jehovah. From what I read and know, the ones who post here are actively doing what they can to help those who have been harmed and to prevent others from being harmed in the future by this policy the WTS promotes about two witnesses. **************************** Any person who comes here who has been harmed is warmly comforted. This is all that we can do here. It is so little. Someone has to be here when they come - so we wait.***************************THE TRUTH is not the exclusive property of the JW's - or the WTS to do with what they want. Knowledge of the TRUTH does not give anyone the priviledge to harm, or treat people with contempt. We are all appalled at what the WTS has done with The Truth - absolutely appalled. We are appalled at what we ourselves have done in the past with the Truth - lording over the worldly people, judging them, pat answers for complexity, having no interest in others except as a potential sheep is appalling.*********The bitterness, the sadness, the anger expressed here is an appropriate safe place to do this. People who have been oppressed have to find expression.*******WTS/JW's won't let anyone express a concern without immediately oppressing.******** I had found the truth and then found out that the deliver of the truth is a liar and a cheat - well it is heartbreaking, spiritually devastating and cynical. "Doctrine" is an integral part of this sham, so it is discussed. WTS is an integral part of this sham in relationship to "doctrine" so they are looked at with contempt.**********************To be lied to, manipulated, uncared for, kept quiet or else, by the deliverer of truth is crazy-making.****** People are just plain pissed off. I know I am.******************Jusified anger isn't ungodly.((((((((((((The WTS by calling themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave are suppose to be responsible and care for the ones they have caused harm to-that is ungodly.)))))))))))))))))))The WTS has the biggest responsibility to do this and they did not and will not. If they had - we all wouldn't be here*******************glady. C.E.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:46:15
Comments
to that big wt defender i,ll tell you what i do to help wt kids since most of the wt zombies i talk to daily are women i tell them about all i know about wt and child molesters then i ask them if they know any i get some looks like some do if they got enough brains to listen a rare thing, maybe some will open thier eyes and rat out a wt molester but most times when i talk about wtmolester court cases and how the molester gets patted on the back. they stand there like zombies and tell me i,m lying or try to change the subject and ask me if i know what the kingdom is . funny how they want thier mags back after i blow-up thier pitch. the definition of a member of the wt is one who speaks presumptuously. on the cross did they not find a cross on the wall with the name JESUS in that city that was buried by the volcano in 79 A.D. i know that follower of christ in the 1st. century put that cross on the wall to persecute the wt. i know jehovah in brooklyn would approve of that answer.you must need a study.got some delicious spritual food guaranteed not to give you tomaine poisoning until the new light of next weeks watchtower. john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:55:42
Comments
Proof is in the pudding- who is grieving??? The WTS or Silentlambs? Who wants reconcilation - WTS or Silentlambs? Who is tightening the control with videos and KM propaganda, intimidating with threats of DFing? Who calls everyone apostate to shut them up and puts the fear of God into anyone that listens to them? Who has been bashing & abusing victims of rape and the molested and their families for years??? Who teaches that this is the love? Who cares if Jesus died on a cross or a stake - the point is he died so we can live. Who cares if Armageddon comes today or tomorrow or 1,000 years from now- we just know it will come. Our walk with Christ is our walk and no one else can walk in our footsteps. Hell does not match up with God's mercy and love. The trinity makes a mockery out of "God loved the world so much that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON." There is no religion that can save us. We are to imitate Jesus - period. He loved the poor, the broken in spirit, the oppressed - that is what we are to do while we are here and in this way we advertise God's Kingdom. To give hope and comfort now as a "foreshadow" for the things to come. *****************to be oppressing people while preaching the good news is not good advertising for God's Kingdom.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:09:21
Comments
a great place to start the wt march would be at the #2and 5 subway station at boro hall bklyn. the wt has a big propagander stand there right next to the court house we can march the gb straight to the court and have a public trial right on the steps just like in the bible then if convicted let the silent lambs tie them to the columns and stone them with thier books from the wt stand. i can,t wait to be there. john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:44:43
Comments
Hey everyone.....I've sat and read all the bantering back and forth, slamming and name calling. It seems to me to be a complete waste of time and really serves no purpose, other than to get people all upset. I think it's important that we keep things on topic here, this site is for the molested/raped/abused children of JW's. Much has been going on in that effort, so I see no point in all the doctrine discussions and arguing. There are numerous group sites where this would be more appropriate. 'Nuf said. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:44:48
Comments
Hey everyone.....I've sat and read all the bantering back and forth, slamming and name calling. It seems to me to be a complete waste of time and really serves no purpose, other than to get people all upset. I think it's important that we keep things on topic here, this site is for the molested/raped/abused children of JW's. Much has been going on in that effort, so I see no point in all the doctrine discussions and arguing. There are numerous group sites where this would be more appropriate. 'Nuf said. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:27:10
Comments
i heard and read that article about 2005 it,s hard to explain it because of the way it was written wt zombies may discuss it among them selves most are too blind to see it thats why thier still members!!!i tryed to pin my pop on that one as usual he went into fallacies in argumention . and hung up the phone his favorite way out when i catch the wt in another lie. but i got a better one on the back page of i think may 2000 or 2001wt they go into million now living will never die .they are talking about today. that would mean that a baby born today lets say he lived to 100 yrs. that would mean the world will end in his life time . somebody look it up i know it,s on the back page of a wt in the last 2 yrs. i,ve made many wt zombies fume trying to talk thier way out of that one . maybe one of you big time wt defenders can post that beaut of prophecy. then explain it.but you won,t want to discuss it . i know you only want to talk how gods sprit directed org. is protecting the children from brother molest-a lot..john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:39:09
Comments
i never knew you were there! i cried when i saw the site today. After all these years my experiences find a home, a voice, a listener. Thanks

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:49:55
Comments
for all you wt supporters you think god choose the wt and c.t.russell as the fdsin 1874 81 or at any time go to this site it has everything russell ever wrote. http//www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/start.htm it,s a lot of work but i like to prove all things true remember new light never contradicts old light if you have trouble finding th e good stuff give me a call i,ll help you . next time your reading a wt and it calls some russell teaching bible truth you can look it up . how do you think i found out the wt is full of s__t. J_CHITO@msn.com

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
08:53:14
Comments
SLC *** YOU GO GIRL!!!!! Now that every topic brought up by the unfortunate soul with the "foot in mouth" disease has been covered we can get back on the topic of Child Molestation and other forms of abuse. Thank for getting that cleared up for us. You were eloquent. Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
09:23:38
Comments
I THINK THIS VERY HELPFUL. WE FINALLY CAN TALK ABOUT THINGS WITHOUT BEING JUDGED THAT WE'RE SPIRITUALLY WEAK AND DO NOT LOVE JAH. I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ABUSE BUT DO GIVE MY HEART ALL TO HAVE. I HAVE AN 5MOS OLD AND 2 1/2 YR OLD AND HAVE DECIDED I WILL RAISE THEM TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND NOT BE JUDGEMENTAL OF OTHERS. TO GIVE OTHERS ALWAYS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. I WILL FOREMOST PROTECT THEM FROM THE ABUSE WITHIN THE ORG. I ONLY LET MY PARENTS AND HUSBAND WATCH MY CHILDREN AND A VERY FEW SELECTED FRIENDS. I DO NOT LET TEENAGERS WATCH MY CHILDREN. SO MY HEART AND PRAYERS GOES OUT TO EACH AND EVERY LAMB OUT THERE! I LOVE YOU ALL FOR JUST BEING YOU! CC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
09:37:54
Comments
Nameless,(JW-Def I assume) you keep holding your breath. Once again I will try to be clear. I have not seen where SL is about establishing my beliefs. But I will establish this foundation. Spousal abuse and the rape of a child is not just a sin, they are crimes. JW's are working to defend and covet these types of perpetrators and then send them out into a society that is unaware of the danger that is knocking at their door. That is what this site is about giving people information to protect themselves. If the JW policy makers change their view on protecting and rewarding criminal behavior then this site would focus its attention on helping heal the wounds that are created when rape, physical, and mental violence destroys lives. I have no doubt that either you or some other of your type will be coming to my door at some point. After you walk next to the big American flag waving proudly at my front door then I will share my beliefs with you. I hope you hear what I say. But here, I will not engage in a theocratic debate. That is not what I am here for. I am here to try and help encourage and give support to the people who have bravely chosen to stand up and stand with each other against a shadow like enemy that seeks to cause what is meant by spiritual division. If you will not respect why, and what most of us are here for then you will continue to be pushed aside.-Sequia(SEQ)

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:37
Comments
Bill isn't trying to start a doctrinal fight here as far as who is right about the trinity, the origins of holidays, or whether to wear pantyhose to the meeting or not. His main focus is the kids who report their abuse. Let's keep that in mind, folks.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
10:57:03
Comments
Trying to clean up the inside of the Watchtower organization(with their child abuse situation) is a good thing. However I do understand how other people see the benefit of just getting out of it. Trying to clean out the inside of the Watchtower is like trying to clean out the inside of a garbage can. There is so much other trash that it holds also. Like all kinds of teachings that a regular person would never come up with. The scriptures have simple truths and also more complicated truths, but I sure don't believe that there is only a few (out of 5 billion people on the earth) that can "decode" Gods word. This is an example of a dirty rags that we find in the garbage can. _____________"But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road of life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." (The Watchtower 12/1/1981,p.27) So as you can see we have a problem with authority. The organization in my opinion does not take any members concerns as being valid, because they are the ultimate authority speaking for and representing God. We have a wide problem here and unfortunalty this spills into almost every aspect of peoples lives.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
11:33:17
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
12:34:49
Comments
very good that the matter is out. romans 13 says we must be in subjection to "caesers" authority, for it is jehovahs public servant, and it carries the sword for the bad deed.how is the society and elders obeying the superior authorities when it turns a blind eye to serios wrong doing? peter even said"let none of u suffer as an evil doer". but nothing can be so carefully hidden that it cannot be revelaed, for all is laid bare before jehovah, and all must render account for what they do, mark 4:22 luke 12:2-3 hebrews 4:13 romans 14:12. and before the end comes jehovah "will" clean his house out 1 peter 4:17.............and this could be jehovah cleaning his house out.it seems it was covered up so for the image of the church, but anybody that knows the bible surely should know that nothing can be covered up.look at examples of david, achan, eli hophni and phineas.jehovah cannot be mocked galatians 6:7 the society cannot now judge other religons until it itself cleans its act up. pmd scotland

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
13:18:22
Comments
Dear ones, I too was a victim as well as my 11 year old son. My experience is 18 pages long. However, I would like to share it with you, but I need an address to send it to. Please send me a mailing address. I would also like to know if you can direct me to Jay Walter's experience. My dear friend told me to read it, but I can't find it on your site of "silent lambs" Could you please direct me to it. Thank you, csz1914@cs.com

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
15:32:49
Comments
Hello, my name is Mark Palo and I can be contacted at >>>>palo50@juno.com<<< Several years ago I came forward and told my story to Randall Watters and he published it on his Free minds web site. I had no idea that there was such an underground of others who had suffered as I had. As I have read the multitude of postings, talked to victims and viewed the two television programs I was shaken by the numbers. What happened to me over 40 years ago has paled by some of your experiences. I can not believe the arrogance and sheer mendacity of the Society in their dealings with the victims.I at age 52 still suffer from PTSD, anxiety and panic attacks due to my experiences and treatment at the hands of the Watchtower. What has totally angered me are the ones in the organization who deny it, and blow this entire thing off as apostate ravings. These people are nothing but cretins. I was raped right at Bethel by a Bethelite. My parents where under the illusion that if one was a JW one could do now wrong. Even in my town of Lowell, MA. the Witnesses have called me a liar, apostate and demonized. The last I don't understand, because since when does telling the truth make you demonized? The first two I understand because this is the way they deal with anyone who dares to speak out and tell of their experiences. I was told by one elder that I had fabricated this in my mind. I ask, how does one fabricate PTSD and all the other symptoms to several highly trained psychologists and psychiatrists? But then the Watchtower thinks psyhcology is a Witch doctors remedy anyway. Peace, Mark Palo

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
15:53:17
Comments
i see a lot of people here don,t like my posts me calling watchtowerites zombies showing the wt lies weekly about thier past .what does that have to do with the silent lambs. alot ...3 yrs. ago i exposed the wt to the zombies i know in the bronx i shown many how the wt lies ,contradicts it self calls false prophecy bible truth.etc. etc.etc.in every instance they just stand there like zombies and say anything to defend the wt. no problem believe what you want. but now were talking about kids being molested. this is a total diffent ball game. these zombies all tell me it,s all lies.etc. it this point i want to take a stick and put up thier butt to see how they like it . then i tell them you can,t complain because you don,t have 2 witnesses. so see the whole wt community is an a acessary to these unspeakable crimes by defending the wt at any cost . i say put all these zombies in jail who defend the wt policy on molesters and they can learn first hand what it,s like to be molested in jail .cause in jail i don,t think you can find 2 witnesses.and remember the jehovah in bklyn won,t want to slander the good name of your fellow inmates . john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
16:22:58
Comments
John, I am a Bronx native transplanted to Taxachusetts. Might I ask what part of the Bronx you are from. I came from the Upper Bronx Cong and then the University Heights Cong.We might have mutual aquaitances. Mark Palo

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
17:41:20
Comments
Mark i,m from c o-op city or the old gun hill cong. area every zombie in co-op city knows me my father is brother quido he sometimes goes to the italian meetings he hangs out with that german pervert carl grolsh and for all you wt spys out there my father goes to birthday,thankgiving,x-mas partys etc. and he don,t believe everything the wt teaches.don,t forget to get a picture of my truck to post in the halls cause i,m hitting the zombies hard about the child molesters in the wt didn,t i hear 2 gb members were homosexual sounds like gods arangement to me mark didn,t i hear about your story on another site if this happened to you in the bronx feel free to call me i,ll make a big stink here they won,t like it and expose the scum to all the members in the bronx by the time i get finished they will have to df him.J_CHITO@msn.com tel 9173710332 i get free nights and weekends. may the grace of the lord be with you. john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
17:51:00
Comments
**************The mole********Historically, the aim has been , not to aid the individual or to provide basis for reasoning with him, but to incriminate, to convict as herietical when matters of shame come to the fore. Initiating the inquiry often has nothing to do with the individual's being disruptive, malicious or even being particularly vocal about his beliefs. Mere suspicion is sufficient cause to set in motion the inquisitory action. The suspect is viewed as, in effect, having no rights: even his personal conversation with intimate friends are treated as something the inquisitores have full right to delve into. Its not solely the atrocious acts of punishment meted out in the spanish inquisition that earned it such a despised name, is also th authoritarian approach and arrogant methods of interrogation employed to gain the incrimination so often zealously pursued by the religious judicial court. The toruture and the violent punshment meted out then are outlawed today. But the authouritaritoan approach and arrogant methods or interrogation can still be practiced with apparent impunity. My experience in dealing with those removed can be truthfull said that none of the persons disfellowsipped had any thought of separating themselves from the organization nor had they any thought of encouraging others to separate. This should answer your doubts why i remain. I believe and truly think that spiritial guidance always was governed by the extent to which god's word was adhered too; to that extent god grants his guidance or withdraws it. I think that is true for any individual or any collective group of people, whoever you are..........The mole****

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:01:03
Comments
WELCOME "CSZ" <csz1914@cs.com> and we are sorry to hear you and your son suffered abuse as well! We hope you are doing OK, and we would love to hear/read your story! You asked for Jay Walter's story. His story is not at this SL website. He was not an abused lamb that I know of. Here is the link to his story: <http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm> You also asked where to send your story. Address and Email info for Silent Lambs is on the HOME PAGE of this site, left-hand column, bottom "blue bar." Love/SLC --- EMAIL (To SL): To discuss the SL website, write to <Editor@silentlambs.org>. To offer assistance to the cause of SL, write to <Assistance@silentlambs.org>. If you want/need help, write to <Help@silentlambs.org>. If you prefer to correspond via US Mail, the address is: Silentlambs, P O Box 311, Calvert City, KY 42029.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:05:13
Comments
Buster wrote: "...Brother Roman Fingers..." - Buster, crack me up! I have not heard that expression (Roman Fingers) since high school! And so true what you wrote about the BIGGER ISSUE (not the victims' stories only, but the HANDLING of those cases, etc.) --- BTW, WELCOME BUSTER, since I had not yet got around to saying that. Your thoughts are appreciated. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:07:46
Comments
Some OTHER "Buster" comments to JW-Defender which I thoroughly enjoyed "I have a dream ... - Buster." (LOL!) and "I also like reading the delicate way you have of making your point. - Buster." (The calm way in which you express yourself, Buster, impresses me sincerely! Keep the thoughts coming! /SLC)

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:01
Comments
NY Truck Driver John: Your "subtle" approach reminds me of a construction worker's jack hammer! ;) <just kidding & welcome back, I've seen your posts in the past> We each have our own personalities which shine through in our posts -- which, btw, I enjoy immensely getting to know everyone via their heartfelt expressions -- some are noble and eloquent, clear and precise (Loris & Claudine/CE); some humorously spunky (Bonnielynn); some mysteriously insightful (Mole); some calm and reasoned (Buster); some overflow with firey righteous indignation (Penny); some mince no words/tell it like it is (Jesika), some blazing, brutal honesty (DJB), etc. -- "In proportion AS EACH ONE HAS RECEIVED a GIFT, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God's underserved kindness EXPRESSED IN VARIOUS WAYS." (1 Peter 4:10) -- (Ahhhh, that's why I love the Bible. There is ALWAYS the PERFECT scripture describing every thought/emotion/situation under the sun.) -- As for me? I'd have to put myself in the "dry, irreverent wit" department. ;) -- Love to everyone today! /SLC (PS: No slighting intended to those I may have left out... can't remember everybody right now, but love ya just the same and thanks for all your comments! Each one helps promote the healing for all concerned.)

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:13:04
Comments
JMD wants to go to the Silent Lambs NY March but cant. --- I know exactly how you feel! I would love to be there! We will have to go "in spirit." Thanks for your comments. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:10
Comments
TO EVERYONE********************************** I must say I am very saddened by what I am reading here. I have only been off the site for maybe a week. What used to be a thriving community of support for abuse victims has turned into biblical debt and un-needed info about the WT. Why don't all of you go back about a month or more and read the posts then. They were all about helping Bill, others, and doing something about the policy. I hang my head at what I have been reading. Why even bother arguing with a "JW defender"?????????? The name says it all, and if no one would post a responce--the JW will get tired of not having the reation they are looking for and they will LEAVE on their own. The only thing arguing does is hurt us and give them the upper hand and reason to stay and cause more trouble. Why argue with a JW who still believes it is the truth, they won't listen to anything you say, only try to make sure you know they are right and you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on people, we used to be one of them, stop and think about it---don't get mad and post back---noone is winning in this-----noone. I will not post unless it gets back to the reason why this site is here. I refuse to be ANY PART of this bickering!!! We are survivors of abuse and you are letting this JW abuse you further----only YOU can make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx PS If you were a victim and came in here new to the site, would you stay with all this going on??? How many people have come and left without us knowing, and may need us, but will not be back because of this stuff going on. I don't want that on my conscience. Just food for thought, stop feeding a stray and it will stop coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:39
Comments
To the person who wrote: "hate to say this, but i agree with jw, too much bashing going on." ----- I would have to respectfully reply that, If You Can't Take the Heat, Please Get Out of the Kitchen. -- As Loris, Claudine, SEQ and others have precisely and truthfully described, the indignation/resentment/anger at the WTS for it's [abusive] "war crimes" is wholly and righteously justified. Expression IS HEALING, and together we are washing each other's "dirty laundry of abuse" [experiences/pain]. It's a group effort. And it works. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it.) -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:48
Comments
Please read my post above ----------Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:05
Comments
" HAVE I GOT A MILLSTONE FOR YOU." (NY Truck Driver/John to JW Defender). ----- I gotta tell ya John, even in your righteous tirades, your humor shows thru! Thanks for the laugh! We need all we can get! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:48
Comments
Bro. Mole wrote: "Many of us have waited but none have come to address a real answer, for weeks i have sat and tried to read between the lines but no direct mention of any wrongdoing has been mentioned and will not be in the future." ----- Mole, that is EXACTLY the "salt in the open wounds;" i.e., the fact that there has been No Humbling of itself on the part of the WTS, No Admission of Error by them; there has been No Apology or Comforting Gesture toward the victims and their advocates; there has been No Change in WTS Policy; and as you rightfully state, none will be forthcoming (their ongoing hard-ball actions PROVE that). My best advice? Don't anyone "hold their breath." Love, /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:34:45
Comments
There is nothing worse than adults who pray on young inocents and no religion worse than the one that protects those animals. Julian Paniagua

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:44:41
Comments
Thanks to whoever quoted this: "...we will NOT progress along the ROAD of LIFE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIBLE READING WE DO." (The Watchtower 12/1/1981,p.27) ----- Does that sound like blasphemy [of the Holy Spirit] to anyone, or is it just me? What about Ps. 119:105-107, "YOUR [Jah's] WORD is a lamp to my foot and a light to my ROADWAY [Jah's WORD, not the WTS' words!]. I have made a sworn statement, and I will carry it out, To keep YOUR righteous judicial decisions. I have been afflicted to a great extent. O Jehovah, PRESERVE ME A-L-I-V-E A-C-C-O-R-D-I-N-G TO Y-O-U-R W-O-R-D." ----- Compare also Joshua 1:8. ----- And how about Philippians 2:16, "Keep[ing] a TIGHT GRIP on the WORD OF LIFE." -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:55:53
Comments
WELCOME MARK PALO!!! Thanks for sharing your painful story! What you say is PROFOUND and so true ("you made it up in your mind;" denial by the cretins; shock at the numbers of abused coming out; arrogance of the WT in their dealings with the victims, etc.). You ask: "...since when does telling the truth make you demonized?" -- Answer: When the TRUTH does not "Tickle the Ears" of those hearing that TRUTH! When telling the TRUTH might rip-open the Devil's Cover-Up! -- You also asked: "...how does one fabricate PTSD and all the other symptoms...?" -- Answer: As you know all too well, one cannot/does not put on an "act" of PTSD symptoms. No one would wish PTSD on their worst enemy. Sadly, those symptoms were given birth deep into every fiber of the frightened child or teen at the time of their abuse. Your cong and the WTS may not VALIDATE your experience and pain but WE DO! You HAVE BEEN HEARD! Thanks again for sharing! Hang in there! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
19:20:56
Comments
For all those out there who want to 'write a book' please DON'T USE THIS SPACE FOR IT! Your manners are terrible. It makes the rest of us who would like to read the guestbook, give up. Don't be so insensitive. We are here TO SUPPORT BILL AND THE LITTLE SHEEP, not to teach doctrine. STOP IT!!

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:33
Comments
Jesika is right, the post above this one is right, Linda is right. Back to the issues! Use email for the other stuff or visit jWD

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
20:39:33
Comments
This site has been exposed as a JW bashing party.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
20:44:01
Comments
BACK TO THE REASON WHY BILL STARTED THIS!!!!!!!!!! This is a site for abuse,and for the support of those in need or who need it. Don't use it for a heated argument of nothing pertaining to the silentlambs site!!!!!!!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx***************For more of my thoughts look for my post today starting with TO EVERYONE!! Love Jesika Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:19:28
Comments
The Watchtower Society shelters more than one type of abuse. The abuse that this site was designed for and the abuse from the society itself with it's shunning policy. As you can see if you disagree with them, they easy answer is to get rid of the person. This organization will not change as long as people see these spiritual leaders as "Gods representatives on earth". The shunning is secondary to the first (child abuse) coverup in this case. However this is how these leaders conduct business across the board. There blood policy, their new light policy, their child abuse cover up policy, etc. are all symptoms of people being convinced that the holy spirit does not dwell in all Christians(Though the bible teaches that) I feel that you will not change this group as long as they have convinced themselves that they are not acountable to the people who follow their every command. Good luck. Your going to need it.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:45:38
Comments
For Much Constructive, Helpful Info for Visiting Lambs & Their Families who are seeking info or comfort or assistance (or anyone for that matter), please do check out the HOTLINE button on the HOME PAGE; and also the FAQ section on the HOME PAGE; and also the ASSISTANCE button on the HOME PAGE; and to read the stories of fellow victims, please do read the ABUSED LAMBS and BATTERED LAMBS sections found via the Blue Bars on the HOME PAGE OF THIS WEBSITE. After reading all of that, you could also go back and read prior Guestbook entries beginning from March 2001. And if you want to write the owner of this website, please see the EMAIL bar on the HOME PAGE. Thanks/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:53:49
Comments
HAS EVERYONE VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS? --- ""friends of silentlambs"-We wish to establish a network of safe houses for victims who may be in danger or who may be victimized by misguided Jehovah's Witnesses. We are looking for individuals who could provide sanctuary for up to thirty days for parents and children who may be threatened. We would like to establish safe havens in every state within the United States. We ask you provide information about your ability to be able to assist in this regard. If you would like to become a part of a network known as "friends of silentlambs", to register write to Assistance@SilentLambs.org." --- This info can be found at the "HELP SILENT LAMBS" blue button in the left column of the HOME PAGE. If, like me, you don't live in a place big enough to provide such in-house assistance, how about offering to be a telephone contact person in your area, for phone support to victims, if needed or called upon to do so? FYI/Food for Thought. Thanks/SLC (btw, yes, I already offered my name/# should there be any lambs in my area. So far no calls though).

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:57:46
Comments
BLM-You put it so mildly, and I like it! ;-) "SHAME ON YOU, YOU STUPID STUPID MEN! SHAME SHAME SHAME!!" -- and, btw, thanks for the info about the WT/PR statements for the police! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:59:18
Comments
THIS WAS PRICELESS! Thanks Loris!!! --- "This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room." --- Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:59:58
Comments
Hey guys, I want to comment on the last few days of hostile posting. I think it is fair to say that JW doctrine debates will bring out the worst in people. That is why I study the art and science of "propaganda." That type of persuasion is poison to individual thought. I can not stress enough the need for more education in understanding the tactics of a propagandist. That was my intent in allowing the discussion to take place yesterday. It is easy to fall in trap, “name-calling, ridiculing, dismissing whatever is said from a different point of view, and changing the discussion to issues without any substance.” These are but a few tricks that a trained propagandist will use. I said months ago, these are patterns and tactics that anyone who engages destructive cults will have to familiarize yourself with. We must train our children what these people are about. Witnesses teach that they spread the "truth" about---Whatever. But the word has a different meaning to them than it does to the average person. Deception, lies, violence (Rape is violence not just sex), and intimidation have nothing to do with true spirituality. There is no excuse for these actions period. And to defend them is even worse. Outside of SL and the JW I have been accused of trying to “legislate morality" in the big picture of child rape and religion. God willing that will happen. We have as a society failed to hold to moral principles. I belive that is why cult like organizations continue to thrive worldwide. They offer a sense of morality, distorted as it is that is the best thing people in them have known. The WTS is a small group and insignificant in the world of cults but the crater they leave in the lives they destroy gives me reason to not ignore them. I have told hundreds of people about this site. In turn they have told people and so on. I have advertised this site in newspapers and write the media. Montel Williams did a first class show on destructive cults today. I recommend you guys look to get a copy. I taped it. The truth about what is happening is getting out. Be patient. (I once heard that sometimes you can see crab-traps that have the top open; just barely above the water. Every time that a crab tries to clime out of the trap the other crabs pull the escapee back down.) (I hope you can use that analogy someday.)-With love and understanding-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:21:52
Comments
jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net asked: "So if indeed this is the case, what are we to do? Flee, flee to what.... Who else has the teachings of life?" ----- Dear jgibson: This is exactly the point where the WTS has confused all of us to no end. We have been indoctrinated to believe that we can ONLY get to GOD & JESUS THRU the WTS, which is not the case at all. I'm sure you will recall the conversation between Jesus and Peter: "Simon Peter answered him: "Lord, WHOM shall we go away to? YOU have sayings of EVERLASTING LIFE; and we have believed and come to know that YOU are the Holy One of God." (John 6: 68,69) ---- Please note that Peter did not ask Jesus, "WHAT religious ORGANIZATION shall we go away to?" But he asked, "WHOM shall we go away to?" (WHOM as in a PERSON, not a THING). It clearly shows Jesus is the "WHOM" who gives Everlasting Life, not a man-made religious group or Ruling Body of Men. As someone wrote on this site, "Fear Fades When Facts Are Faced." There is nothing to fear because the fact is, we were SUPPOSED TO BE GOING DIRECTLY TO JESUS HIMSELF ALL ALONG, each of us individually. How? "The helper, the holy spirit... THAT ONE WILL TEACH YOU... [how]." (John 14:26). --- This scripture alone, though known for years and read many times, is like Brand New when seen w/o the WT-Blinders On. Think about it. Hope this helps. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:28:13
Comments
SILENT LAMBS MARCH 9-27-02: Within the past day or two someone asked what was the March all about, and where could they get info? --- First, please go to the HOME PAGE of this site

<www.silentlambs.org> You will find these links in BLUE on the Home Page, just scroll down a little if you don't see it right off, but here is what is listed on the home page in this order: ** Watch Panarama (the BBC's documentary on JW sex abuse) ** Panarama Transcript ** Panarama Spanish ** DATELINE PICTURES ** DATELINE TRANSCRIPT ** DATELINE AUDIO ** DATELINE SPANISH ** PRESS RELEASE 5/07/02 ******** SILENTLAMBS MARCH 9-27-02 INFORMATION LATEST INFO ******** There, did you FIND IT? It's the last item in the list on the HOME PAGE. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:36:20
Comments
CC wrote about her kids: "I WILL RAISE THEM TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND NOT BE JUDGEMENTAL OF OTHERS. TO GIVE OTHERS ALWAYS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT." ----- Hi CC, thanks for your comments and prayers. I liked what you wrote there. Our "normal" sinful inheritance leads us to judge others, which is bad enough. But when we spend many years in a religion which teaches us to CONTINUE JUDGING rather than teaching us to, as you describe, NOT be judgmental/give people the benefit of the doubt, etc., Well, we have alot of un-learning to do, and it's nice to see you are instilling this into your babes while they are still young. Thanks for the reminder! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:43:32
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:43:56
Comments
DJB wrote the other day: "It is going around the world and exposing this for all to see. This could only be with Jehovah's blessing. ... Luke 12: 1,3 "...WHAT YOU WHISPER IN PRIVATE ROOMS WILL BE PREACHED FROM THE HOUSETOPS." ----- Thanks again, DJB! While sharing your scriptures with another forum, the thought came to me that the antennas on HOUSETOPS allow us to receive TV-shows like Dateline and Panorama, etc., and this could be ONE WAY the SL message is being Preached From The Housetops. ;-) Just a thought... /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:45:28
Comments
TO THOSE WHO DEFEND WTS, by Claudine: Excellent Response, clear, concise, and oh so REASONABLE!!!! Thanks! SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:46:04
Comments
Soapbox! GOOD GOOD GOOD. Excellent Essay. I am so touched by the way you express yourself! Who can refute what you wrote? Thanks again. /SLC (Soapbox began with -- partial quote -- see full entry above -- "Only man can make God's Law inequitable...and Jesus fulfilled the law, did away with it and gave us the command to love one another. Two witnesses is a guideline used by WTS in an inequitable way without love. It is used to hide behind when all else fails to cover their tracks.")

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:50:45
Comments
Hi bjc2! I, FOR ONE, THANK YOU for your efforts and for the information about The Report, and the details & addresses for it, and the corrections to the misunderstood parts, etc. I hope the ones who complained about "books" will not upset you. I was glad to have had this Report brought to my attention, since I am open to all possibilities at this point. Thanks again/SLC.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:02:09
Comments
Hi Linda Birt & Family: Thanks for sharing your story and filling us in on the first-hand experience your [elder] husband and yourself had with the way the WTS dealt with abuse in the UK. Glad to hear you have been able to move on from it. I notice you said you have almost finished counselor training and would like to help. I was wondering if you would be interested in or if you noticed the bar on the Home Page of this site, "HELP SILENT LAMBS"? There on that page, Paragraph #6 says, "COUNSELING-If you have credentials for counseling victims of molestation and would like to help direct them on how to get the best assistance, CLICK HERE." When you click there, it opens up your email program in order to email Silent Lambs at this address: write to: Assistance@SilentLambs.org. --- Thanks again! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:11:37
Comments
Did everyone see the email sent around by Silent Lambs re: the Navy's website on JWs? <http://www.chaplaincare.navy.mil/JehovahWitnesses.htm> Two things caught my eye while reading it: (a) "A group of members called STEADFASTERS opposed all support of World War I. Later, THE SOCIETY ADOPTED THE STANCE OF THE STEADFASTERS." --- Hmmmm.... Does anyone think there is hope the WTS will "adopt the stance" of the SILENT LAMB STEADFASTERS??? That would sincerely be great, wouldn't it? (However, taking my own advice above, I will Not be holding my breath). ----- The second thing I noticed (humorously) is that the Navy gives a New Title that could be used in addition to elder/PO/SO/CO/DO... and it is: "J.O." (Navy's quote: "As in all large organizations, official policies must be administered by junior officials.") There you have it, JUNIOR OFFICIALS! :-) Well, I thought it was funny! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:13:56
Comments
THIS IS WHY! THIS IS T-H-E PURPOSE! THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT ALL WORTH WHILE! -- A visitor wrote Date: 08 Aug 2002, Time: 07:39:09: "i never knew you were there! i cried when i saw the site today. After all these years my experiences find a home, a voice, a listener. Thanks." ----- WELCOME WELCOME to "All These Years"! So glad you found Bill Bowen's Silent Lambs site, because w/o him having created this, the entire sex abuse situation in the congs would still be nothing but a "secret" in the "back rooms." Your experiences are VALIDATED! Your tears are RECOGNIZED & UNDERSTOOD! Your pain is SHARED! You are Not Alone! Please come "home" often! Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:46
Comments
" ...and stone them with their books from the wt stand." ----- Now now, NY-John, that ISN'T very nice, is it? (but it DID give me a Big Chuckle!) When I read your posts, words like "Fearless" and "Firey Flame" come to mind! ----- I am remembering a TV commercial from several decades ago: "What does the average citizen on the streets of New York think about the WTS? Only your friendly NY Truck Driver KNOWS FOR SURE..." :-) -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:12
Comments
Every time a jw comments it seems like everyone goes for their head. I have observed with some interest what has been going on and quite frankly am shocked and amazed at the lack of respect displayed when one offers an opinion that is different from most here. I thought this site was to help victims. It's amazing I go way back in the posts and the central theme is anti-jw talk. Sincerely, JR

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:27:22
Comments
WHAT COULD I POSSIBLY ADD TO THIS EXCELLENT POST? NOT A SINGLE THING! BECAUSE C.E. HIT THE DEAD-CENTER OF THE BULLS-EYE WITH HER VERY FIRST ARROW OF WELL-POINTED-WORDS (Thanks CE!!!! /SLC) ----- "And like having an unfaithful spouse who doesn't care, they continue to lie or cover-up the problem. And there can be no reconcilation under those circumstances. This is grievious. ... the so called bashing is a reaction to the very things we all once where seduced by to our own detriment and blindness. A Trust was betrayed - this is a very serious offense against the human spirit. Jehovah hates a liar. ... Any person who comes here who has been harmed is warmly comforted. This is all that we can do here. It is so little. Someone has to be here when they come - so we wait. ... We are appalled at what we ourselves have done in the past with the Truth - lording over the worldly people, judging them, pat answers for complexity, having no interest in others except as a potential sheep is appalling. ... The bitterness, the sadness, the anger expressed here is an appropriate safe place to do this. People who have been oppressed have to find expression. ... I had found the truth and then found out that the deliver of the truth is a liar and a cheat - well it is heartbreaking, spiritually devastating and cynical. ... Jusified anger isn't ungodly. ...The WTS has the biggest responsibility to do this and they did not and will not. If they had - we all wouldn't be here*******************glady. C.E."

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:39:47
Comments
To Loris who wrote: "SLC *** YOU GO GIRL!!!!!" ----- (Replying in my best Elvis voice): Thaaaank Ya Thaaank Ya Thaaaank Ya (kindly!) :-) I feel DITTO re: YOUR so-much-more eloquent posts! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:27
Comments
Anonymous wrote: "Bill isn't trying to start a doctrinal fight here as far as ... whether to wear pantyhose to the meeting or not." ----- LOL! That one made me laugh! NOTICE: New Website & Reform Movement Being Established for All JW Sisters: "The Silent Suffering of Pantyhose Wearers." Join Now at <www.PantyhoseNoMore.org> ----- (Hey, it's a JOKE! However, I'd rather die than have to wear pantyhose again. I should have taken out stock in "L'Eggs" in my younger working & JW years... /SLC)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:47:53
Comments
A Visitor wrote: "Incest is a taboo, and should not be allowed to continue, I feel very stong about this, and thank you for letting me share my thoughts." ----- No, WE THANK YOU for commenting. When I saw your post, in the middle of all of the JW-Defender posts yesterday, I thought to myself, "Praise Jah some SANE people are posting today!" --- Well said Visitor! /SLC

Remote User:
Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:57:41
Comments
Anonymouse asked: "Request to Jehovah's Witness people: Help me to find (in the bible) the Great Crowd's plan of salvation. The annointed Christians plan is covered quite well. I do not see anything about a plan of salvation for a Great Crowd." ----- So sorry Bible questioner. 7 or 8 people today advised we not answer bible questions/doctrine not relating to sex abuse specifically. ----- Seriously, I'd look something up for you if I wasn't already pooped. I'm surprised JW-Defender didn't take the opportunity to reply to your post. Suggestion: You can submit a question at any of these sites: Just JWs at msn (go to msn groups, and search for Just JWs), or post your Q at (<http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi> Questions for the forum, email to: cc-questions@channelc.org) -- OR -- you could post your question as a New Topic at <www.Jehovahs-Witness.com>. You will get all the answers you need at these places. Another idea, of course, is to ask your neighborhood JW when they call at your home, or call their KHall and ask someone. I suggest this since no one has answered you yet and you could get a faster response at the above forums. Hope this helps. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:58:29
Comments
That was a typo above - AnonymousE. I meant, of course, Anonymous. .SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:24:10
Comments
JR wrote: " Every time a jw comments it seems like everyone goes for their head." ----- Reply: The tendency to "go for their head" only surfaces when they exhibit such a Self-Righteous Attitude that is hard to stomach for those who have either been there themselves and/or can SEE RIGHT THRU the fasehood of their "truth."----- JR continued: "I have observed with some interest what has been going on and quite frankly am shocked and amazed at the lack of respect displayed when one offers an opinion that is different from most here." ----- Reply: You must not be a JW. Otherwise, you would realize that the "opinions offered which are different from the ones here," are nothing but WTS propaganda which has been drilled into the heads of these ones who are expressing so-called OPINIONS. (See SEQUOIA's Post above). Also, what real knowledge and/or insight do you have into the spirit of an abused one? If you had some, I think you would understand a little more clearly. ----- JR continued: "I thought this site was to help victims." ----- We must be reading different websites! I see numerous posts from people who express THANKS and COMFORT from this website. ----- JR's finaly thought was: "It's amazing I go way back in the posts and the central theme is anti-jw talk." ----- To that I reply: DUH! WONDER WHY???? WHO IS IT That ABUSED the Lambs and Their Supporters? More correctly that should read: ANTI-WTS TALK. JW members as a whole are still in the blinded-grasp of their propagandist/cultish LEADERS, and therefore, are not totally responsible. (On second thought, after reading some of Truck-Driver-John's posts, I might have to change my opinion on that). - Anyway, JR, I'm sorry you are not seeing the MEANING of the dynamics here. It seems you are only noticing the SURFACE of things. I guess it's truer than true when they say, "You would have had to have BEEN THERE" [to appreciate/understand it]. But, that's okay, and don't worry, We Won't Shoot JR! ;-) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:38:09
Comments
THIS BEARS REPEATING & Thanks to PMD in Scotland for posting it: "The society cannot now judge other religions until it itself cleans its act up." -- So True, PMD. Otherwise, they will continue to look like fools. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:47:47
Comments
TO "Good Luck, You're Going To Need It" who wrote: "This organization will not change as long as people see these spiritual leaders as "Gods representatives on earth." --- Reply: Good point, poster. When I read things like this, I remember how I felt as a JW, and you are so correct - I would never have fathomed that the leaders could be in the wrong, and would have closed my mind and ears and shuddered at any talk against them. ----- You also wrote: "I feel that you will not change this [WTS/JW] group..." -- Reply: Maybe not. But what has and/or WILL CHANGE is WE, OURSELVES. We are no longer in darkness! We are no longer alone and suppressed! And THAT is the BEST Change of All even if the WTS stays the same (more like, "Keeps Regressing.") Thanks for your best wishes! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:57:49
Comments
Hi SEQ! Thanks for your reminder of your knowledge about propaganda and cult activity. Wish I'd known about Montel today, I would have watched it for sure. And thanks for your efforts which you described (getting the word out, etc.) The great news is that once we "get the sense of it," we come to realize, sometimes in a flash, that we are FREE TO go STRAIGHT to Jesus and Jehovah without the middle-men, and I mean LITERALLY WITHOUT the Middle-Men! This opens up a whole new area of exciting discovery, that with the help of The Helper (the holy spirit) an entirely NEW, BETTER & MORE IINTIMATE relationship with Our Father and His Son is waiting in the wings (of the mother hen who is longing to gather we "chicks" to herself). Thanks again, and Good Night All. I think I'm all caught up for awhile.. .Love/SLC -- AND BEST WISHES TO BILL ON SUNDAY!!!!! Anybody know if he got enough letters???? I sure HOPE SO!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
02:07:54
Comments
I looked up this website after seeing the 'Dateline NBC' segment profiling cover-ups of child abusers/molesters within the JW church. I was simply APPALLED by what I found here. The sickening acts of JW church members, and just as bad, the cover-ups by church elders and ostracism/isolation of abuse victims was absolutely disgusting. That being said, I absolutely believe the stories on this site. This site is, I think, essential for those who have been isolated - sometimes by family members - for daring to expose the vile acts committed by JW members. For the record - I am not a JW, although my grandmother was.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
02:15:27
Comments
OK. I debated whether to post this, but since I am signing off, I will post it anyway since I feel (imho of course) some of my feelings are valid: Here goes: I think you guys (mostly ANONYMOUS ones who don't give a name/handle) who are griping about the recent WTS discussions are putting Way Too Much Emphasis on it. (Just in this August 2002 Part 2 of the Guestbook, I see about 7 or 8 such complaints.) Because, as Loris and Claudine CORRECTLY EXPLAINED, EVERYTHING ABOUT the WTS affects the lambs -- the two are DEEPLY intertwined. They cannot be separated. So BIG DEAL if some doctrinal stuff is discussed? It's just a phase. (Compare it with 18 entire months of posts!) It does NO HARM TO "NEW" LAMBS WHO VISIT HERE, imo, to see a little WTS "doctrine exposure." BESIDES, it is NOT ONLY VICTIMS who visit here, but no doubt MANY worldly people (see SEQ's recent post as an example) and maybe even some JWs who silently read but do not reply. If they learn ONE NEW THOUGHT from these types of posts (WT doctrine espose'), ALL THE BETTER for the worldly visitors AND/or the JWs. --- And let's say I was a worldly person reading JW Defender's posts yesterday and then saw that NO ONE EVEN PUT FORTH ANY EFFORT TO REFUTE all the baloney he was saying. What would I think as an unknowing worldly person? I would think he was CORRECT, that's what I would have thought! So RESPONSES from the regulars here WAS APPROPRIATE, imo. --- Also, if some current JW (defenders or whomever) DIRECTLY ASKS ME SOMETHING, please be advised I WILL REPLY, and if it is "book size" in nature, who are you to complain? Are you the owner of the site? Just don't read the posts! Doesn't everyone know how to use their SCROLL ARROW or Mouse? Scroll OVER the posts if you don't feel like reading them. (How hard is that to do?) --- Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the complainers complaining. I would never DISCOURAGE ANYONE (of the "Good Guys") from posting - that would NOT be nice MANNERS - as a matter of fact, THAT would be INSENSITIVE. --- And if you are going to "GIVE UP" that easily, then Hmmm.... what does that say for Tenacity? --- No, I am NOT suggesting the purpose of this site be changed for all eternity, but I think it's NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL that some WT-doctrine-discussion/exposure has occurred. Knowledge is Power, remember? The NEW VISITORS are posting many THANKFUL POSTS. I think it is some of the "anonymous regulars and/or lurkers" who are complaining. And I hardly think any Wounded Lamb is going to run away from the site permanently due to some WT doctrine discussion. (Even if they do leave for awhile, they will not forget what they read and it will sink in. That's how it has happened with me... slowly sinks in, even if the "first swallow" was hard to get down.) --- Lastly, if there IS UPDATED SL activity going on to be shared, by all means SHARE IT and fill us in! The only updates I see are the emails sent out by B.Bowen and/or from the Guestbook and/or Home Page listings. --- Maybe WT doctrine-discussion has occurred because the "complainers" are NOT posting anything themselves! --- I'll borrow SoapBox' moniker for this one. Agape/SLC ----- PS: In defense of John/NY, sure his posts may be a little harsh in delivery, but does he not also have a right to be incensed about the abused JWs? C'mon, people, remember Jesus' words: "FOR HE THAT IS NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US." (Mark 9:40) -- and the verse right above that one says, "DO NOT TRY TO PREVENT HIM, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of [Jesus'] name that will quickly be able to revile [Jesus]..." (Mark 9:39)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:19:46
Comments
" There is no baby in the bathwater - throw it out!"....Too cute. Thanks.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:22:09
Comments
Seems the Newspaper articles are becoming scarce, I wonder if the fickle media cares about the smear campaign you have going on now? I guess the new is wearing off the story. Maybe Bill should dress up in a clown costume, or maybe go on a hunger strike to get this thing rolling again.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:36:08
Comments
This just in: I heard the number signed up for Bills march on New York is now up to 10 people! They may have to call in the Police for crowd control!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:43:39
Comments
Breaking News: The Benton Kentucky times has promised a special issue with full front page coverage of Bills march on New York. With a circulation of 32 this will surely raise the ire and shock of the American public to levels not seen since Dateline (most of which was pre-empted by playoff games across the USA) The public will see what wicked people JW's truly are!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:31:03
Comments
Silentlambs March September 27 . . . . . . . There is a book publishing company in Brooklyn that we are going to picket. The company has a strict dress code (like the old EDS or IBMs) The company is telling all current and prospective employees (and anyone else who will listen) that the picketers are just DISGRUNTLED ex employees. They say the ex employees havent worked for the company in years maybe decades and are just a bunch of losers who cant find other jobs. But what if the picketers look like they still work for the company or that they just quit last week? It will be harder for the publishing company to smear the picketers and the picketers get the best PR. . . . . WHEN WE MARCH FOR SILENTLAMBS WE DON'T LOOK LIKE APOSTATES!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:31:52
Comments
***Jay Walter's story can be found here----

>*** http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:40:20
Comments
Hi. I was raised JW. While I agree with JW's view on paradise earth and a non-trinity God...and while I am glad that this site does address sexual abuse issues..what about the OTHER forms abuse withIN the JW org? Such a emotional and religous abuse? What about ruling people's personal lives? Espeicalli on NON_bibical issues such as : telling grown adults OVER 21 who they can date or not? Telling men that they can not wear bears? Rigif formal Mormon-like dress codes from the 1950's? Telling people that it is "Their choice" to celebrate birthdays or not"..but then when individuals DO 'choose' to celebrate birthdays..then they are tagged as "spiritually weak"? What about those HORRID "Kingdom Mealodies" from HELL? And the refusel to allow contemporary music in worship instead of Bach? Lastly, what about the simple fact that "The Governing Body"/"The Society"/"The Organization"...is viewed as "The Channel to Jehovah"? Is that not supose to Jesus' postion ONLY? RenewedEarthPress@hotmail.com Renewed Earth Press P.O. Box 142 Ojai,CA 93024

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:11:56
Comments
hi all its john i,ve been reading this site for a year gaining kmowledge and all here are in my prays. i take what i learn and use it in the field with the power of the holy sprit i hope to help others as well as myself. in the last year i had to tell hundreds and hundreds of wt members i,m going to make a prophecy watch out for dateline child molestation in the wt is going to come to a head. they all laughed at me .i know some watched it in the last momth or so i can see the confusion in some of thier faces i think all this talk from the kh to the door steps about molestation is ringing a sour note in some of thier hearts. i keep in my truck printouts of all kinds dirt on the wt i try to be ready for all incounters.try to keep in mind i try to witnesses in christian love. it,s mostly wt members who fruitlessly try to attack me for exposing the wt. thats what pisses me off when some one has no sense of reason. let the pharisees of the wt be thrown in the pit by ceasar after all that has been hidden is exposed to the light let all who refuse reproof also led into the pit. you gotta love proverbs.p.s. the light machine is sitting idle i,m home sick. but that ok i finally got to talk here with some beautiful people . look for me at the march .freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:42
Comments
to 9:40:20 I think the advice not to wear "bears" is a good one Just think how painful and potentially fatal that could be! One could suffocate and maybe even die! Or think about the possibilities of being scratched by those tremendous claws. Infection could set up and possibly kill you!......Whine, cry, snibble, sniff! It sounds like you and most other people just don't like to live by any rules, who are they to tell me I can't do something? Sounds a little familiar "Satan...Who is Jehovah to tell me what to do? It all amounts to the fact that you don't like to be told what to do so you harp on things like wearing a "bear". By the way there are two brothers in good standing in my congregation that wear "bears"

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:29
Comments
John, sorry to hear your sick today. I looked for a email addy from your earlier posts but couldn't find one, was gonna ask you a personal question. bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:44:55
Comments
More news from the AP: Silent Lambs Movement strapped for cash? To raise cash for the Silent Lambs Movement organizers are hosting a Masquerade party. The theme will be Bible characters. Come as your favorite fictional Bible character. The best dressed winner will receive a grab bag full of JW puns, jokes and other Misc. JW bashing tools. It promises to be alot of fun and the entry fee is only 13 cents. Organizers hope to attract at least 8-10 people and put a possible .80 - 1.30 in the SL kitty for future marches to expose what evil people the JW's are.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:46:57
Comments
to all thoses complaining about jw bashing come to the bronx i,ll set you up with a private study with brother carl grolsh in co-op city after he gropes you and asks you all kinds of sex positions that turn you on . etc etc. that,s what some of my family members and i have seen in the last 30 yrs. one can only imagine the love he,s going to show when no one is around .after a few studys with brother grolsh . you,ll be singing a different tune maybe soprano. you better hope jesus shows up when you tell the elders . oh! i forgot he,s only one witnesses! this brother will never admit to anything ,but he puts in alot of time. let me know when you want this study.don,t to forget to wear your ARMOR!!!!! waiting in the bx john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:53:57
Comments
To the one/or ones who are enjoying them selves by making these snide comments - Are you a believer in the heavenly FATHER? If yes, then do you truly in your heart feel the HE approves of you poking fun at this site? At abuse suvivor's? Can you not see, with your spirit that you are only causing HIM to take a closer look at YOU, we may not know who you are and why your doing this but HE does! I bet you'de even feed a baby pigglet a chop too!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:02:33
Comments
" I'd bet you'd even feed a baby piglet a chop too" ?????????

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:11:10
Comments
No one is poking fun at the abused. The puns simply show the extent that this site has degenerated and gotten away from its purpose. Why can you guys take stabs at JW's by insinuating what evil people we are because of a few bad ones by bringing up old history and other completely unrelated rhetoric but we can't comment or poke fun at completely unrelated issues as well? Is this your party only and you can cry if you want to? Get back to the topic and maybe the posts from these others you are whining about will stop!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:36:14
Comments
Regarding the comment - Why can you guys take stabs at JW's by insinuating what evil people we are because of a few bad ones by bringing up old history and other completely unrelated rhetoric but we can't comment or poke fun at completely unrelated issues as well? Is this your party only and you can cry if you want to? Get back to the topic and maybe the posts from these others you are whining about will stop! YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW ME, YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT I HAVE POSTED HERE, This is me, bonnielyn, me who made the earlier comment about the piglet and the chop! YOU look at any of my posts IF YOU DARE!, and then label ME as one of the 'YOU PEOPLE!' IF you find one comment that I made that is considered wrong in your heart then you bring it to my attention and I will ask you to forgive me for hurting you by my remarks! I do not go around hurting ANYONE on purpose and if I have then I am sorry! Sincerely sorry for that!! And if you wouldn't feed a piglet a chop, glad to hear it! And I ask that you forgive me for saying I bet you would! I was not poking fun at JW's with that comment, after all, I didn't even know you were a JW until AFTER I SAID IT! So how could I have been bashing a JW with that comment? again, respectfully, and with love of all my neighbors, bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:54:08
Comments
And your comment or who ever it was comment about the .13 cent admission to a party to assist in the silentlamb march WAS NOT UNRELATED TO THE ISSUE It was a direct HIT, to the ISSUE, don't insult your own intelligence thinking that it wasn't! Do you hold your innocent childs little hand with the same hand that you use to type things in here to make light of the issue of abusing children??? Do you tuck them in at night and are thankful that no one has touched them in ways to break their spirit's and body's with those same two hands???? Do you not even realize that somewhere right now there are children, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, that are being abused! Not only by non-believers either! Not only by believers either! Search your spirit before answering please, truly search it, feel the pain of all of these in man kind that suffer at the hands of another, that silently and not so silently beg for help! That are molested, beaten and mudered by someone put here to protect them!! Search your heart for the love of others!! IT's in there!!! the wt has written about it enough that it should be inside you somewhere! FIND IT! Then you will see for yourself, making light of the issue of this site and those who care about the children is not a very nice thing to do! It's not loving! and if your excuse is that others are doing it to you so you have the right to do it to others...... is that what the witnesses teach??? I missed that one in my studys, thought they taught to 'do onto others as you would do onto yourself'! Has this 'teaching' changed then! It has been awhile since I was in study so maybe there is 'new light' about how to treat others that I am not aware of, is there? if so, then I guess your poking fun and making light of this issue is what your supposed to do and told to do by the JW's! I am not bashing, poking fun at or judging with these questions, I am truly ASKING you! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:17:56
Comments
" Rather than focusing on things and time, focus on preserving and enhancing relationships and accomplishing results." -- Stephen Covey And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment], so that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value... -- Philippians 1:9, 10 (Amplified Bible) © Copyright 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by the Lockman Foundation Monday Boosters are brief, to the point and when you need them the most...every Monday morning! Pass them on to your friends and family who can use a weekly boostershot. To subscribe or unsubscribe go http://www.boosterguy.com/subscribe-biblebooster.html

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:19:30
Comments
A point or two about being 'on the topic': Discussions about the structure of the organization, discussions about how elders are taught to deal with complex behind-the-scenes social issues, discussions of historical events and teachings that lead up to the current set of beliefs and procedures, are all part of the topic. A sense of fairness impels us to try to deal with dissenting opinions - like Defender. In my opinion, the one thing that most separates this forum from any others is that it is set up Bill Bowen to change the organization. I was amazed when I first realized that this site was run by an active JW. But I also find it interesting when I see a post from a Defender that it is in the form of thought that has been ingrained by way too many meetings and repetition. An active JW will typically start firing off scripture snippets and asking what is the greater fulfillment?, or 'where will you go?' They firmly believe that they are at the heart of the discussion. The JW thinks that the discussion needs to be around how Ezekial chapter this is in harmony with Matthew verse that. But to realign their thinking will require that they first start seeing the bible as more straightforward instruction for each of us - not as a jigsaw puzzle designed for the few appointed with the insight of Holy Spirit. That we all have an obligation to build our own understanding and not rely on an organization to make these decisions for us. Pipe dream huh? Yup. Worth trying? I think so. On topic? Definitely. - Buster (Besides, they can be kind of fun at times.)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:32:17
Comments
bonnielyn, I am going to address myself as CJ from now on. I did not write the comment about the silent lamb party, I was the one who wrote that it is simply a response to show how far this site has degenerated. I truly beleive this. Look at the post...can you say that most of the posts lately are related to abuse victims? Maybe yours are but the majority aren't. I am a JW and I am proud of that. I feel that as a whole JW's represent Jehovahs' name very well. Yes there are a few bad apples. I think dredging up 1800's history on JW's does no good. Yes JW's had some misconstrued views throughout the ages, but so what! This to me shows progress in a good way by getting further and further away from wrong views doctrinal or nondoctrinal. I cannot think of a single religion today that isn't actually going the opposite direction by becoming more and more liberal simply because thats what the people want to hear.I am sickened by anyone who abuses a child, but recent posts make it seem like all JW's are pedophiles, or that we have more pedophiles than anyother religion. In the beginning this site was setup supposedly to help victims, but whether you accept it or not it has become a JW bash party. I know that you personally may not be doing it but as it has been pointed out by many on this site, its those others that make the whole site look bad, just as afew bad ones in the JW organization make the whole look bad to you. Personally I am offended at the insinuations that JW's are evil, just as you would be offended at anyone making an accusation against you even though as you said in your post "they don't know you" Whether or not you or anyone else would like to admit it most people even the non jw's just plain old regular people have nothing against us. I have spoken to many in the field ministry here in Kentucky and to the very few that have even said anything about this ordeal they still say well It happens in all religions. Thats the simple truth. Yes many cases were handled wrong but the governing body and JW's as a whole cannot be classified or branded as an overall bad people based on 1800s history as many here would like to make people believe. So bonnielyn I hope this has cleared up things between us and I hope that you can help others in here to be able to let out their anger and frustrations in a more constructive way. CJ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:40:30
Comments
Back to the topic... everyone please go to the UN site, look up, and read the Declaration of the RIGHTS OF CHILDREN, and bye the way, thanks to the official WT site for putting some of it in one of their mags so I could be directed to it!!! ty ty ty! :-) Since it was in the mag of the witnesses then even witnesses can go and take a look-see, for educational purposes, since it was in a JW mag! Right? Anyway, take a look; it is calling for EVERYONE to protect the children from (just to name two) moral and spiritual harm! I know that the word of the FATHER said as much, so very long ago, HE made the call for all to protect our children! Keep them safe! And to NOT TOLERATE anyone who does them harm! So let us all strive to do this! This site is here to assist the abused and battered, surviving lambs, to try and change the hearts and sight of those who cannot see that protecting the children is the most important thing! Isn't it? So any more comments made not reflecting this should not be replied to, it only adds fuel to the fire! I have no right to tell anyone what to do, I can only ask, please click on your 'ignore' when anyone posts comments that do not consider the protection of children! Thanks to all who do this, and to those who don't, that's your right, freedom of speech is your right. Man gave you that! So, I will strive myself to not 'get sucked in' by the snide remarks. I will try to just, consider the source and discern the spirit of the ones making them! With love, from the spirit of love, bonnielynn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:24:30
Comments
CJ - your comment - I am sickened by anyone who abuses a child, - a blessing to hear!!! So now that we both are sickened by this, what can we do? I know that the majority of Witnesses are good, decent people, people who honestly feel that they are saving the worldly ones everlasting life. I'm concerned with the ones who aren't, even if it was just one, and that one was allowed to continue to abuse just one child, it's still wrong. If you found my story and read it you then know that I was raised to believe the doctrine of the JW's, I still do believe their basic doctrines, love one another, walk in the footsteps of Jesus, and many more, but the subject here is the lambs, and I honestly feel that not only speaking out for the present lambs and past lambs in love and understanding is important, also, making sure that the future lambs, the non-believers coming into the 'truth' are protected now! Do you feel comfortable with the thought of ANYONE allowing a 'known' pedophile to come to your home? If it was a regular company lets say, and they stated in the media that they 'do not let a known pedophile to hold a responsible position with-in their company, and that they do allow the 'known pedophile' to go to the homes of children to teach, sell, or anything' would that not make you hesitate wanting that company to send ANYONE from their company to your home, or the homes of your loved ones, or even ANYONE'S HOMES? Would it really matter to you if that 'known' pedophile were with another person? Would you still want that 'known pedophile' near your children? Even with someone else they are still able to look at your children, you are still putting your child in the sight of a 'known' pedophile, and the sad thing is, you wouldn't even know it! Oh, yes and the company also stated publicly that 'they may not send the 'known' pedophile to a neighborhood that knows of them! That might be your neighborhood! Can you see where I am coming from? I am a survivor of abuse, sexual, mental, spiritual, verbal, you name it, and I survived it! I am still surviving it. I am almost 39 years old and cannot even begin to heal when these abuses continue. I think of a child out there, anyone's child being abused and I suffer, my spirit cries out (not to mention my eye's geeze, one would think I would be dried up by now!) I hear of a child's life taken by their own parent and I have to find a blessing in it, I feel, truly feel that at least in death they are free of the abuses suffered alive, and the FATHER will remember them, and bring them back, the little baby's that never harmed a soul, the innocent little lives, that HE will bring them back and heal them!!! But until then at least the one's lost to earthly life are safely sleeping until that day comes! That's the only way that I can even continue on.. How HE has given me the courage to bare all of this! What can we, you and I do, to walk in the word, and help at least one of these little children that are still here, gave to us to protect???? Any suggestions from you or anyone reading this is welcome!!!! In your opinion, allowing a 'known' pedophile, most of whom have not taken the suggestion of the company to 'do the right thing' and turn yourselves in to pay the penalty of mans law, do you think allowing those who have not truly repented, gave lip service to remain in the company, to continue the non-responsible position of going to a child's door, to teach, to sell, to whatever, do you think that this is against the will of the FATHER? Do you, in your opinion, feel that these 'known' pedophiles have the blessing to do this from HIM? Since you are a Witness, I would highly appreciate your insight!! And especially any suggestions on how we, you and I, and all of us that truly find this sickening can walk in the word and do something! We are the earthly instruments of the FATHER right? I know that since I am not a witness as far as you are concerned or the org is concerned so I understand that you may not consider me a spiritual, loving, person because of it. But I am! I am truly afraid that if we all don't see that HE is calling all of us to do HIS will regarding protecting the children, then ... we just have to see that HE is using us now to do something about this, as HE used Jesus to show us the way, as HE used Jesus to know that HE is LOVE. HIS spirit is calling us to do something!!! Right?? Something more than just talking about it, and saying how it is bad. It's also bad to sit on the fence post and do nothing. Right???? I just do not know what more I can do. bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:47:33
Comments
SLC- I agree with you that it may be are sometimes necessary to comment on JW values and beliefs. The current policy on protecting the anonymity of pedophiles and the refusal if at all possible of victims seeking justice is the heart of the issue. Bastardizing the scriptures is how that policy was formed. It is beyond me why the JW society finds it so hard to accept that these archaic views are not compatible with any other societal views. That includes their own. The statement by JR Brown is that child abuse is abhorred. However he fails to see how the current beliefs protect the guilty and punishes the victim of the crime. That in itself is abuse. It is the misuse of scripture that is the stance of the WTS. The type of propaganda currently being broadcast by the pro-JW policy stance on protecting pedophiles is but yet another example of the tactics that propagandists use. Just say that this site is anti-JW enough times and a JW or a JW sympathetic person will say AHA! I new it; Case closed. The propagandist does not want someone like me (an outsider) reminding people what I and others like me here are is “anti-pedophile” and, more to the point against any type of “pedophile protection programs.” It is that simple. It is senseless that anyone would disagree with me. But the pro-JW policy side does. They are wrong. Every time they post they explain my point. We all, JW and not should be coming together here not tearing at each other. I however will not budge. I will not give in, and I will not go quietly. It may be that the pro-JW policy group may stay on their side as well. Then we will fight. But my shadow will be with the children and people who otherwise have no voice.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:54:39
Comments
Hello. I guess I'll call myself JWD (JW Defender), although I've been called many things from tasty toe, moron, snot-nose, etc. Looking back at some of my posts, I regret saying some of the things I said. I'm not retracting what I said, just excusing myself. I tried to just look without posting but that turned out to be an impossible task. The natural tendency is to defend your beliefs. Anyway, as CJ said, the facts speak for themselves. This site has degenerated into a bash-for-all. The facts speak for themselves. So, for posterity, I'll conclude with a recommendation for JW's at this site: If you see a truck coming towards you, LOOK OUT!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
14:51:13
Comments
Regarding - Hello. I guess I'll call myself JWD (JW Defender), Hi Defender! I would also ask you, in the spirit of getting back to the basic's of the issues here, any suggestions from you on how we all can do our part in protecting innocent lives, bodies, and spirits? Of course we all know that prayer is the very first thing we need to do, and I'm sure most of us here have. Most of us here have also came to the conclusion that our prayers have been answered in the way that we now have the spirit of love to do our parts in assisting the abused. Any suggestions from you, any idea's to how you, I, CJ, all of us, with the word behind us, can do our parts!!! :-) Nice to meet you by the way! I am so glad that you chose the name you have (out of all the others to choose from!, couldn't see anyone calling them self, tasty toes! :-P Since you've chosen the name JW DEFENDER, you are now a DEFENDER of the JW children too! Right?! Makes me want to smile! You have made my day with your last post! ty ty, now we can work together, in spite of our differences and concentrate on protecting the children!!!! bonnielyn!!! It truly is amazing where you find blessings, if you look hard enough; they are just a post away!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:11:16
Comments
To whom it may concern: I am writing to explain myself and my husbands stance in regard to the "Divisions" being caused in the Organization. The only "Divisions" that we know of are those caused by the Governing Body. They have blatantly disregarded their sheep on far to many occasions for us to ever be comfortable worshipping among them again. I could site many instances where they preferred "keeping peace" instead of protection the innocent ones in the congregation. My husband was raised by two abusive people and the elders looked the other way. That is what causes divisions, to know you've been abuses mentally and physically, but to grow up and find that it's not isolated that they KNEW and chose to do nothing. THAT IS WHAT CAUSES DIVISIONS blatant disregard, having no love amongst yourselves because to have love you would do something, anything to spare and innocent. When a loved one comes to you crying telling you about bruises and the pain, to blame them and to ignore their pain is the dividing force. We understand to look at oneself in the mirror and find that you are the reason must be hard, but to blame someone and to go to the extent of disfellowshipping, reeks so much of the world. Smoke and mirrors, look at the right hand so we can't see the leavening in the left preparing to ferment the whole. The Governing Body and those weak spineless Elders that choose to do nothing is what has cause the Division amongst this family. Choosing to blame Bill Bowen while disregarding the real reason, is only going to cause the Society more pain and embarrassment. Bill still chooses to worship, let him examine yourselves as you would the scriptures. That is where you'll find what is lacking in your heart of hearts. Sheila and Christopher Madonia 807 NE 67th Place Gladstone, MO 64118 This is my letter I sent to Bill to present in his defense

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:11:51
Comments
okwho,s the wt ZOMBIE who,s said the silent lambs are running a smear campaign amd loves the truth i mean the watchtower so much he .saying b bowen should put on a clown suit . see you got it backwards yout the one in the clown suit since it seems you have been exposed to the wt lies. now on judgement day ya,ll have no excuse .for being blind .so put on the orange wig,pokadot overalls,and ronald mcdonald shoes,go in the field and bare false witnesses in the name of god. even though you think people are laughing at you with that watchtower in your hand saying read this it,s the truth. in fact real christians feel sorry for you and when they try to show you the facts of the wt. and the real jesus. you just stand there and say look at me the wt dressed me up and made me somebody the cong. respects why just look i,m a wt clone I,M ZOMBIE THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:40:04
Comments
Bonnielyn, I am now going to make a confession to you. I am currently serving as an elder here in a Kentucky congregation. I am relatively young in years (35 to be axact) and have served in 5 congregations already. A couple in Spanish in Tennessee and 3 English here in Kentucky. As you know I have access to all past files on disfellowshipping, disassciations, etc. This would include any knowledge or revelations of Pedophiles. I am telling you honestly when I say that in all the congregations I have served I have never seeen or dealt with a single case. I am in know way saying that there hasn't been in other congregations, but what I am saying is that from the information I have gathered from posts in this room and from Bill Bowens own comments it make it seem like their is 2 pedophiles in every congregation. I think that this is an unfair distorting of the facts. Oh yes the facts are that there are pedophiles, but not to the extent and broad based implications of the evilness of JW's as a whole. My experience in the congregations that I have served in has been enjoyable especially at seeing how the friends are just trying to lead good lives and cope with this system of things. Issues have been brought to light that will influence me if I ever have to deal with an abuse victim. Our elder body has discussed this and we all have the same feelings on the matter, primary concern will be given to help the abused. It is also their right to take the matter to police we would not discourage that. However if the accused does not admit guilt we can do nothing in a judicial way, though this would give serious rise to any kind of resposibility and would mandate being watched with a little more scrutiny. I do not know if this is fair to the accused if no witnesses can be provided to validate the claim. Thats all we can do our hands would be tied, tied the same way they would be tied in a court of law if the accuser expected to win a case when it is one word pitted against the other with no callaborating evidence or witnesses. No judge would rule favorably for the accuser in this case. You would appreciate this being applied to you if you were the accused. Regardless, if there is no evidence to convict anyone or not counseling for the abused and emotional support would be most appropriate. I sincerely feel this and would let this guide me if I have have to deal with a serious matter like this. Basically what I am trying to tell you that there are alot of good people in the organization, we offer alot of support for each other, but we also step on each others toes, you had a bad experience, you felt it wasn't handled properly and you left. You left scoured with a view that the whole organization is corrupt and I sincerely in my own free mind feel that this is not true. Especially having served in so many congregations. There is alot of good out there. I just wish you were her in our congregation so you can see how we although imperfect, handle things as an elder body. I can't help but think that if your situation was dealt with differently maybe although hurt you would still be with us. I am confident in Jehovah that he will take care of things and that maybe this process is a way of removing some of the impurities. But for me to leave what I know is the truth especially in comparing other religions (which I have done quite extensively before I became a witness) does not solve anything. My hope is in Jehovah and please understand my views as I am sensitive to yours.CJ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:47:58
Comments
bonnie lyn it,s J_CHITO@msn.com to that jw your living the masquerade as for the .10cents donations that what i give zombies like you for 2 wt mags then i ask for change just to make the point it only costs the wt 3.4cents and issue to print paper ink electric,SLAVE LOBOR AN ALL!!!!your right wt members arn,t bad people till you expose thier idle and god the WATCHTOWER! jw your doing a great job telling all here what you are . a fool read jn7:18 then then tell me what the wt is . take off the rose colored glasses and high heel shoes you can wear a lamp shade on your heAd and molest haLF THE KIDS IN YOUR CIRCUIT FOR 20 YRS. AS LONG AS YOU SAY I BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE WT SAYS AND THE KIDS DON,T HAVE 2 WITNESSES IE MR. MOLEST-A-LOT PANDELO IN N.J.YOU WANT MORE. WHEN THE WT TODAY CALLS OLD FALSE PROPHECY BIBLE TRUTH . THE WORD OF JEHOVAH RIGHT THERE YOU SEE THE WT WILL TELL ANY LIE TO PROTECT 600% PROFIT ON EACH OF THE 24 MILLION MAGS SLAVE LAbor prints each week heard of human rights the slaves at bethel have none ps. bend over i know a brother who has a bone for you !!!no witnesses mind you have fun .john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:49:34
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:54:47
Comments
CJ- That was very eloquently written. I know you mean every word that you wrote but I would warn people of what you are really saying. I think that this 100 year old poem says alot. The Spider and the Fly (A Fable) By Mary Howitt (1799-1888) "Will you walk into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly; "'Tis the prettiest little parlor that ever you did spy. The way into my parlor is up a winding stair, And I have many pretty things to show when you are there." "O no, no," said the little fly, "to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again." "I'm sure you must be very weary, dear, with soaring up so high; Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the spider to the fly. "There are pretty curtains drawn around, the sheets are fine and thin, And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in." "O no, no," said the little fly, "for I've often heard it said, They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed." Said the cunning spider to the fly, "Dear friend, what shall I do, To prove the warm affection I've always felt for you? I have within my pantry good store of all that's nice; I'm sure you're very welcome; will you please to take a slice?" "O no, no," said the little fly, "kind sir, that cannot be; I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see." "Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're witty and you're wise, How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes! I have a little looking-glass upon my parlor shelf, If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself." "I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say, And bidding you good-morning now, I'll call another day." The spider turned him round about, and went into his den, For well he knew the silly fly would soon be back again: So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly, And set his table ready to dine upon the fly. Then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing, "Come hither, hither, pretty fly, with pearl and silver wing: Your robes are green and purple; there's a crest upon your head; Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead." Alas, alas! How very soon this silly little fly, Hearing his wily flattering words, came slowly flitting by With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew, Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue; Thinking only of her crested head poor foolish little thing! At last, up jumped the cunning spider, and fiercely held her fast. He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den, Within his little parlor; but she ne'er came out again! And now dear little children, who may this story read, To idle, silly, flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed; Unto an evil counselor close heart, and ear, and eye, And take a lesson from this tale of the Spider and the Fly.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:56:07
Comments
CJ... I was never a baptized JW; right now my mom is again studying. I was raised to believe the truth and lived my whole adult life feeling that I failed HIM by failing the org. What got me, is when my mom started studying she asked if she can go with her teacher door to door, OH, no says the teacher, you can't do that, someone you know might open the door and it would put us in a bad light! Okay, then I read your pr man, Mr. Brown, publicly stating that the org allows and even sends 'known' pedophiles door to door, and that they may not send them to neighborhoods that know who they are. The SENDING THEM are what I see is harmful! I understand about the smoking thing, if we were discussing this in private or through email I would love to share my theories with you about it, but this is not the place to discuss that type of doctrine, excusing away pedophiles by saying that there aren't as many as in other religions, (not saying you said that) is in no way a plausible excuse. And stating that there has to be two or more witnesses to the abuse has to be some how changed in view of who the victims are or were! If it was your child or grandchild that came to you as their grandpa, could you then tell them as an Elder that 'sorry, my hands are tied, you have to come up with another witness, or more, or we have to wait and let the accused abuse another child to have another witness". ? Could you do that? Even if it's not of your blood and flesh, just another jw child that you call their parents brother and sister, If faced with this yourself, I hope it never happens either, but if it does? Why not try and get things as right as they can be now, before this issue is at your door knocking? Thanks for the posts, means a lot to me that you were willing to disclose yourself in this way! It hasn't stated here on this site that their are two peds in each congregation, it says that if the figure's are true then it's on 'average' that it's two, could be one congregation has 4 and yours is free, or it could be a congregation has 6 and that saves more congregations. Can you, if this is true, be a JW and not want to do something, are not moved to do something to help your fellow brothers and sisters? And their children? Even if they are not in your congregation, they are still yours! Right? I think that a lot of ppl here are still so into the teachings as I am, If I'm not mistaken there has been many times that I was taught by my grandma, who died a devout witness by not accepting blood, and my mom, and the teachers that I have studied with, that you have to look into the beliefs, the works of all religions and if there is one thing wrong, that is a red light to maybe that the religions isn't the true one. I've done that all of my life, with the trinity, with other things... and now I have nowhere to go.. But this isn't about me. I am just me. This is a place to hopefully discuss how to with the help of the word, and the courage, wisdom, and most importantly love, help and think of the children, this site centers around the JW's that are survivor's of abuse, the facts that even when the accused is found guilty in the eye's of the law the congregations flock to the guilty and forsake the survivor's. All of these stories cannot be fabrications. Saying that would have to be admitting that maybe all of the stories you have heard that was written in the wt and awake, may have been all fabrications! You still didn't answer my question, this is very important to me, so please, just a yes or no if fine. Give me some hope again that there is hope for me… If you needed a tutor for your child, and you called a company that provided this, and they sent out a tutor that had confessed to them that he/she were a pedophile but promised the company that he/she wouldn't do it again, would you still want that ‘known' pedophile to come into your house around your child? Simple question. Would you want a ‘known pedophile' to come knocking on your door? The PR man Brown stated in the papers that this is allowed, along with another witness of course, but even with another tutor there, would you want a ‘known pedophile' into your home around your child, around even you for that matter? You don't have to have ever been faced with that to know how to answer, do you? I understand that it is the obligation and the joy for fellow brothers to be able to forgive a repentant sinner. Do you feel that this is a sin that can be forgiven with just a promise not to do it again? And how many times and children have to be abused before you're not obligated to forgive? 7, or 77, or even 777?! Now, isn't that an interesting number? I did not even realize what that number represents, until I saw it typed… I mean, yes I knew what it is, but did not put it in for that reason, just popped out at me when I saw it! Humbling! You have to put yourself in the child's shoes. Think with a child's heart. Will you answer? And if you can put yourself in the child's shoes, as an Elder, could you try to put yourself in an innocent Elder's shoes, one who WAS faced with this, one who tried to help the child and was stone walled with ‘wait on Jehovah' not to change the subject but when I begged to be baptized and was told no cause I smoked, when I said that I've prayed and am waiting on Jehovah to take it away from me, cause I didn't have the will power on my own, my teacher sure didn't understand that, and I sure didn't get to proclaim my Love and TRUST that Jehovah was there and I wanted to dedicate my life to pleasing HIM, maybe if I was allowed to publicly proclaim this LOVE AND FAITH I could have been able to quit smoking! Catch twenty-two. Anyway, Thanks again for sharing part of your real self with me and us here. If you can't feel that you can answer my question(s) then I will understand. After all, we are supposed to understand right!! With love bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:58:30
Comments
The Mary Howitt poem was posted by-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:02:14
Comments
CJ: I realize your letter wasn't written to me but I'd like to add a few thoughts of my own. I have been in the organization for 27 years and it was my whole way of life. My first congregation was in Kansas. My friend in Liberal KS had three children and her husband sexually abused the two girls, but that was before the society tried to cover things up (around 1979-1980) and so he went to prison. Those girls' lives were ruined as time has clearly shown. Again in Kansas but different congregation my other friend had five children, girls and boys, and her baptized husband and his brother abused them in many sick ways. He wasn't charged with anything but he was disfellowshipped. Those kid's lives were ruined as time has clearly shown. Now Texas congregations and I know of two horrible molesters. First one raped little girls in the hall but was not DF'd and he went on a Bible Study with his wife and molested the householder's two little girls. He got ten years. Second brother raped his own daughter when his wife was trying to divorce him for abuse. He denied the charge but a few years later admitted it. He was never punished or df'd. Totally destroyed the daughter's life. Still Texas, but very dear friends 14 yr old daughter was raped. Silly little girl let a 19 yr old friend climb into her window as he had moved away and surprised her by coming to town one evening. Family was asked to cover up the incident; daughter is in prison on drug abuse charges now. Two more from Texas: In my own congregation an older teenager rapes the little girl he was baby sitting and a second teenager rapes the four year old sister of his friend. I don't have an explanation for what I know but these stories are true and four of the guys have police records now. I would like very much to discuss a federal law regarding admissible evidence in Child Abuse cases also but this is very long. My name is Nan

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:02
Comments
Hi CJ: Two primary thoughts I want to address to you as an elder, and then after that, a few questions and direct thoughts, that I think should make you think more about this situation you speak of. I'm an "older man" in physical years. So, I speak from experience...I served too as an elder for many years, in many different congregations. **********EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: (1) Do you, as an elder, concur with the disfellowshipment of BILL BOWENS, JOE ANDERSON, BARBARA ANDERSON, given the facts you have at hand? If so, what would be the scriptural grounds?************(2) Why can't the 2 "witness" Rule in child abuse cases be understood to include (a) the child abused and (b) the medical doctor (objective party) who examines child and offers professional opinion and medical "evidence"? (Evidence would include: tangible evidences of abuse [bruises, facial marks, so on] or direct evidence of sexual violation; doctor determines when making "examination", also in physical abuse cases violence, things like x-rays, lab reports, specific/medical tests results to determine abuse, other medical evidence, doctors written opinion, (maybe even a second opinion from another doctor who examines, etc.)******Shouldn't this type of "evidence" suffice and be in keeping with the scriptural two-witness rule, thus fulfilling the scriptural obligation of 1 Timothy 5:19? This same "evidence", medical evidence is used throughout the world and stands up in the "court of law" to convict accused rapists and child molesters, does it not? **********Wouldn't this "adjustment" of viewpoint, on the part of discerning "elders", show a "bringing in of a heart of wisdom". Especially on the part of the Governing Body's if they untied the hands of the elders, in such cases, and allowed this procedure for the benefit of the elders facing difficult circumstances in judging a case of child abuse within the congregation? ( See Psalms 90:12.) Your opinion as an elder, please? *******Further as an "elder", would you say these men of the Governing Body really discerning spiritual men, full of wisdom, and directed by God's Holy Spirit? Where is the "wisdom" among them? Or, does it make more sense to you as an "elder", for the Governing Body to attack other elders like BILL BOWENS and JOE ANDERSON, and disfellowship them for trying to address such a powerful issue, especially in view of what the Catholics are going through? Do we see wisdom displayed on the Governing Body, or brutality? Which approach makes more sense, to you? And what about the Governing Body's timing in handling these affairs? Did they as a body of elders, bring "glory to God", in the way THEY have handled this NEWS-MEDIA sensitive matter? Remember, it was in the news with the Catholics LONG BEFORE the JWs were the news and "talk of the town", right? So, do you think the Governing Body showed real wisdom, in the way they handled this whole affair? What's your opinion, as an elder?*************Also, what about other "witnesses" that can be used in Child Abuse cases: professional therapists to be called in and interviewed, along with child psychologists, and trained personnel with experience with deviant pedophiles (which most JW elders DON'T KNOW is a mental disorder, rarely if ever cured, according to studies on the subject. But how many elders know this?).************Why are we keeping the Civil Authorities out of the scene? Child Abuse is a crime, isn't it? Are we being taught by the Governing Body to "obey CAESAR"? (Romans 13:1,2) Why have they told so many "elders" and traveling overseers, when child abuse cases surface, NOT to go to the police and report it? Why? ******Also, why is the Governing Body so opposed to soliciting the professional help of outsiders who are EXPERTS in the field of Child Abuse, when Child Abuse cases occur with the JW community? ***********Are the bodies of elders you are a part of and acquainted with, TRAINED PROFESSIONALS in this field.***********I served alongside an elder for years...thought he was the greatest elder on earth...now he is in PRISON for violating countless children! True story. **********You are 35 years old...lots more to learn about WT policy and being an elder. I assure you!******** J.B. (Elder)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:26:03
Comments
PLEASE READ THIS: My brother and I were abused when we were 10 & 11, respectively by an elders son years ago. I recall the horror on my mothers face when we told he of the incident. I also recall the big STINK my parents made with this brother. I've been in other situations that involved an elder. Although he did not actually molest me, he tried. That brother was disfellowhipped, not as a direct result of his actions towards me (since I never formally accused him) but he was eventually busted with some other unfortunate young kid. I have been through a lot in my life. It's been said a very interesting book can be written based on my life. I have suffered permanent scars that haunt me to this very day. As a matter of fact, recently I burst out crying and my wife panicked. When I told her I had been abused (she didn't know), we both cried. In summary, it has affected my life. It's hard to forget a bad experience. I've grown up since, and currently am doing well, by this world's standards. I have a high profile job that keeps me employed, a beautiful wife, beautiful kids, beautiful home, etc., etc., made many friends, and have what I consider a great relationship with our creator. I am glad I found this site. Before you welcome me, and tell me you love me, I'd like to share something with you. I am a happy JW. And guess what? My wife was abused by her grandmother (wordly). She too is a happy JW. Our point? First, not all abused “silentlambs” as you call us, YES US, leave the organization and embark on a smear campaign as a full time vocation. Second, it proves that a person can be abused by a either a JW or “wordly” person, and still be a JW. For the record, I am very upset by all that's going on, with Dateline, etc. etc. I happen to be a survivor of abuse. I object to all the negativity and insensitivity that is consistently displayed by JW detractors. Are you going to bash me for my current beliefs? Will you cast me aside? I am so disgusted. What would you say to me if I showed up to one of your rallies? Would you invite me to speak? Why not? I was abused. I suffer psychological problems. Will you abuse me verbally, now that I have shared that I am a JW? Am I evil? Am I brainwashed? Am I stupid? Am I a moron? Am I a zombie? Am I subjected to evil men who do evil things, who have some kind of agenda to take over the world? Am I that stupid that I can't see what's going on? Not all abused JW's take you road you have taken, for your information. I fully expect to be condemned by all who post to this site, in SPITE of the fact that I myself am a victim. Shame on you all. But I am NOT a silentlamb. I have a voice, and I choose to use it as I wish, no one has done that for me, and no one is forcing me. I will continue to proclaim the Kingdom of Jehovah door to door, as Jesus instructed his followers to do, until they drag me away in chains if you all ever accomplish your evil goal. I am not brainwashed as you claim I am. This is a conscious decision made by me, and me alone. I am a Jehovah's Witness, and proud to be one.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:55:04
Comments
This is JESIKA THOMAN-------------- All I do right now is cry. For those who don't know who I am, I am a survivor of sexual abuse and was at the press conference in Minnesota with Heidi Meyer and Bill Bowen. I live in Dallas,Tx and flew there within days of the conference. I used to be here everyday, and posted everyday. But now, as I am writing this, I am trying to see the screen through my tears, as to what this site has turned into. I do not feel if I was having a hard time or flashbacks that I could come here for support. Only to hear and see the same hate and anger I can see in myself(anger--not hate--more hurt than anything) and the family that won't have anything to do with the topic I need to talk about. My heart and soul is in pain and I don't feel I can talk to anyone here about it. It has changed soooooooooooooooooo much here. I wish I would have never let a day go by so I could have stopped it,but now that I need you guys, I feel I am amoung strangers--full of anger--and I don't need that right now. I leave you with a hurt heart and tears in my eyes---I need you guys!!! I just don't feel the field is the same here.That is why I expressed myself the way I did on the 8th. I may come back, when it goes back to what it should be. VERY HURT & NEEDING A SHOULDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman,Dallas,Tx

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:55:30
Comments
Still crying!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:08
Comments
hi to all the lambs out there. my name is Rich, i'm an active JW and i've just read 'crisis of conscience'. its been said that it was a 'banned' book and that it shouldnt be read. well i'll make my own mind up on what i'll read and what i wont. if this book was merely lies, then what does the society fear from lies? it seems to me they fear the truth that is told in books like these. theres a lot of people who are now starting to question and have doubts about the FDS and rightly so. i was baptised 2 years ago and i was suspicious of the society then and they've done nothing to make me think any different, and now i've had to learn the truth from other people. i have posted comment on this site before under 'a concerned JW' because of paranoia, amazing isnt it, how the society can affect me like this. well im not gona be worried about what they think anymore.********* ive learned that the majority of JWs seem to be on what i can only describe as 'auto pilot'. they're too busy concerned about getting there reports in and attending meetings and their pre-studies that their true spiritual self becomes dormant, thinking that what they do is the most important thing and as long as they do what the society keeps drilling into them as to what they should do then thats ok. well i'll tell i dont pre-study ever, if i miss a meeting there's no big deal. if i put a report in late, who do i hurt? as long as i'm developing my relationship with God through Christ by studying Gods word, thats the important thing. i've brought out points in meetings that nobody else would have brought because the FDS never pointed to them scriptures in the first place. what possible benifit do i get from answering aquestion when we've already just read the answer? it just seems to be a way of conditioning the mind to accept what the FDS says and to obey what they say.******** somone mentioned before about not critising the society etc and that this site is just for cases of abuse. well the problem of covering up abuse isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole attitude thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma. when i was studying i was told that this wasnt a 'religon'. from what i've learned it is. they say theres no rules, but there is. there seems to be more rules than any other org i've known. people expect you to dress in a suit and have a side parting. well i wont wear a suit and i've got a skinhead, and i really couldnt care less what others think. i dont attend meeting to try and impress anyone and i have the right to be an individual. all these sorts of things the society try to opress. well i think for myself. i wont give my mind away. i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained conscience. if JWs want to do different then thats up to them, i wont try to change their way of doing things, and i expect others not to try and change me.****** i was disgusted by that GB member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he just summed up their intire attitude by what he said. i told my mom that night i watched it that i considered myself as not being part of the society, only the congregation. i wont be attending anymore conventions and assemblies, where we get mind-controled to obey the FDS's every command. some JW's believe that the society will go through at armageddon, and not sur they'll survive the great tribulation. my thoughts and prayers got to Bill and his family and all those who have been betrayed by the society.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:26:23
Comments
Regarding - PLEASE READ THIS: I did read your post and thank you for sharing it with all of us. You were truly blessed to not have your faith destroyed by the abuse done to you. The lambs here were not so lucky. When they sought the care of the org they were hushed, kept quiet with threats of being kicked out and forsaken by HIM! There are many stories here that proclaim, not the dissension of the Witnesses but the reformation! So many other things have been ‘put in the kiln' to make pure, why not the now policies on this issue? Why kick out those who want to keep the children safe? How can the ones who have made this public be able to go back and rejoin the org when the policies are still the same? Yes, they can be repentant but for exactly what??? For wanting to keep future children within the org safe and sound? For being put in the position that the only way they could see to get things accomplished was to make the public aware of it? The org has certainly taken every opportunity to put the Catholics up to the spotlight. To be examined and as proof that they are not the true religion. Oh, what a blessing and joy to know that you are in the true faith when you see the suffering the poor Catholic children suffer at the hands of the very ones who's obligation within their religion to keep their spirits intact! Speak up and shout all ye of faith! As you were abused, you then probably feel as I do, the feelings that only an abused can feel, Do you? Do you feel an understanding for other abused? Do you feel a desire to help a child from any abuse? Even, if it is not a child that you personally know? Do you agree with the policies of the Organization? Knowing what you know, how hard it is to heal, it broke my heart to hear that you broke down and cried recently, but it was good that you were then able to tell your wife, so she could be there for you! Knowing though how it feels to be abused, would you want to see that burden on any other child? If there was something that you could do, and there is always something, would you do it? If it meant going against the teachings of the org, would you still do it, if it will save just one child from what you suffered. Some, as it seems maybe you can live normal lives, while others cannot. Some may not have the same support that you had from your parents, the same support as you had with your brother given that you shared the same experience and you may have been able to gain strength from that, as some of the lambs have gained strength in hearing that they are not alone in their suffering. I am not going to say that I agree with some of the ways things are being done. I am not going to say that I agree with all of the posts here. I am only saying lets all, in our own understanding of ‘how to survive' strive to do what we are here to do, proclaiming the GLORY of HIM is part of it. Protecting innocent babies and assisting the ones whose spirits are broken along with their bodies is also an important part too. Isn't it? Isn't it our obligation to help one another with the spirit of love and understanding, and with courage to know that although we are ALL not perfect, we can perfectly love ALL? bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:28:11
Comments
I am sorry you feel that way Jesika. I still admire you and all YOU stand for. I wish that people could unstand that I am not against any religion or any indivdual per se. I belive in the right to choose your own path. I do however have distain for 1/2 truths and outright lies. I hate crimes against children and violence in domestic issues. My point in the "propaganda issues" (which most of us are guilty of at one time or another) is when you have knowlege of what is going on then you don't have to get mad. You can call them on it and they can "fight fair" or "head to the sidelines." I wish that everyone would play by those rules. We would have a better world. You would not belive how beat up I get in Sociology classes when I refuse to play into the "mind-games." All "WE and YOU" have to do is say "No I won't be silent" one more time than they say "Yes you will." This is an issue where one group belives they have an exlusive channel to god. Just like the other religions that have the same belife. I however do not have their advantage. I do not belive that I am superior to other people. Now here is a request. GO! and get the Jewel CD I suggested. And then go get a Starbucks blended drink. and chill. Be happy, you are doing a good thing here. Everyone on both sides will benifit in the end. You will see. :-)Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:35:09
Comments
Jesika Thoman! I am so sorry, I had hoped that my posts today were going to help to get things back on track. If any of my posts hurt you please forgive me!!!!! I never meant to harm anyone. Please don't cry!! again forgive me, I have meant to only help and if I've harmed then I am truly sorry! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:06:05
Comments
see I,M SO GLAD THE JW DEFENDER HAS SEEN Alittle light i thing he,s going for jesus he wants it in time he might see all the light prov. 4:18 see how easy it is to take gods word out of the daRK!!!!IT SEEMS JWD LEARNED SO MUCH HERE FROM ALL THE DIFFERENT LOVERS OF THE TRUE CREATOR HERE WHEN YOU SEARCH AND ASK THE HOLY SPRIT COMES. KEEP SEARCHING IN YOUR HEART JESUS WILL LEAD YOU JN 6:66-69 14:6 ETC,ETC,ETC.ETCLET GOD BR TRUE ALL MEN LAIRS.IE BROOKLYN ROM3:4 MAT15:9ETC. ETC JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:10:52
Comments
To the Elder CJ: I appreciated your post - calm, rational etc...I would like you to read the Abused Lambs stories, and all the stories that have been posted in the last couple months. There is a valid concern for what happens to these children once they speak out. It is wonderful that the congregations you have been involved have not had these problems. Once an event like sexual child abuse happens in a family or a congregation nothing is every the same after that. It ruins families and it absolutely ruins congregations. Once a congregation is contaminated this way, it is very hard to undo - this is why it is so vital that there is zero tolerance. ***********You can call me a liar, say it doesn't count because I am not an elder - but in California, there were three different congregations, in three different parts of the state and 7 children (that I know of) were sexual molested by 2 different elders, and one MS, none were df'd or lost position. The one mother who went to the police - was shunned, dropped and not supported. Lost her children to foster care due to her instability which was in part due to the neglect of her congregation to support her.****************** ************************ Witness children are taught not to lie. If a child is taught not to lie and hears day in and day out that the father of the lie is Satan - I would believe that child if they told me someone did something bad to them.*******Anyway, I would like you to read the stories after stories. I also would like you to put yourself in the shoes of a father/mother or the child who was up against this two witness policy, in a time of need of support and help and understanding.**************It is hard to understand someone elses different experience - it can seem like some big drama, or a lie.************* ****************** One mother didn't press charges because she believed that Jehovah would work it out and that it would bring shame upon Jehovah. In congregations where everyone is related by marriage and blood it is very difficult to get the necessary support from the congregation. If all your friends are witnesses and they won't rock the boat- you have to fend for yourself. It is lonely, scary, and this particular woman thought it was just a test of her faith to remain silent and let Jehovah work it out. ************Anyway, I believe that your experience as an elder and having access to records has proved no pedophiles within the congregations that you have attended. I would like you to believe now, that others have had a different experience that is just as true and believable as yours.*********MY guess is that you yourself would have taken the same position as Bill Bowen if you had been in his position.***********Would you take pride in being an Elder if a fellow elder serving with you shoulder to shoulder as an equal was a known child molestor? It would make you re-think everything you cherished and was proud of in being an elder and one of Jehovah's witnesses. I would like to hear what you "feel"about the stories after you have read them and put yourself as an elder in the position of being a man of integrity and a lover of Jehovah- what would you do????? Claudine/soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:13:57
Comments
Dear Proud JW: I'd like to tell you a little story. When I was a young girl I was grabbed and fondled by a very popular man in my community. I escaped his clutches and never got that close to him again and I never told anyone. Recently I learned that my younger sister was also fondled by this man and she also stayed away thereafter and never told. Now I have learned that a friend of mine was raped repeatedly by this man and it very much messed up her life. Should I have told and saved the other girls? Yes, but I was just a dumb kid and so I forgive myself. Should you have told and saved the other boy or boys? That's yours to decide but what if you had and no one believed you? What if you and the other boy went together to the elders and still your testimony was disallowed? What if (as has happened so often in the stories on the Silentlambs website) the children did tell. They and their parents tried to seek justice but Society's rules protected the Pedophile and allowed to continue to destroy other children's lives. Up to seventeen children before Fitzwater was stopped. What if I had told and my parents had taken both of us little girls to the police and the police had denied us justice? Would you consider it wrong of me to try to change the law of the land? If this happened in the Catholic Church would you think it wrong to ask for accountability? Children are abused under many circumstances but this site is about what happens after the fact. Now if you have read the stories of the abused children and not understood that this site was about changing policies and about justice for victims you must have missed something.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:24:09
Comments
Nan, I would be very interested in the federal law you spoke about! Thank you for helping me make my point about the 'average thing' knowing that you are aware of more than two pedophiles in one congregation was a great help! I think that the statement made on the home page here was misunderstood and that helped clear it up. I am also interested in knowing if there is a Federal law regarding allowing ‘known pedophiles' to go to peoples home, for any reason, they can't have a ‘privilege' to do so just because they are in a religion, I wouldn't think. And as far as having to wait until something occurred as SLC mentioned, I sure hope not, then it's to late! Better to stop the cart before it goes over the mountain than trying to pull it back up after! If something does have to occur first, my argument is that it has! The act of allowing and sending the “going to a child's home a ‘known pedophile', is putting children in harms way! If they are allowed to do this it should be a law then that they have to tell the person at the door just what they are and give that person the choice of accepting them into their homes! I don't see that happening. I don't give two hoots care that they go with another witness! And I can forgive anyone anything, it's who I have to be, but I still would have to protect the children! If the org can do this then a school can hire teachers that say “hey I'm a perv but I won't do it if you hire me I promise”! And if I'm not mistaken, even pedophiles that have served their time are still kept away from children, or are supposed to stay away from them! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:32:46
Comments
SEQ! Great poem! A lot of 'food for thought' You should send it to Mr. Bowen thru email, he may not be able to view the guest book. Great poem! ty BLM

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:32:56
Comments
To CJ. I tell you the truth CJ. I saw and heard many like you in so called Christian Congregations of Jehovah's witness. You are very polished with your words but it is just the same. You are not truthful. You know what I mean? RMK

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:42:49
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:46:20
Comments
Dear Bonnielynn: This probably isn't what you were looking for. This has more to do with that crazy statement “You wouldn't want to be falsely accused” The WTS and elders have made it seem that FALSE ACCUSATIONS are common. This is NOT TRUE. The US governments statistics show that Proven False accusations happen less than .01% of the time. However, 50% of sexual abuse claims are unsubstantiated. Are these claims therefore FALSE? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unsubstantiated is unproven, uncorroborated, unsupported or charges that are not actionable for one reason or another. That does not mean the charges are false. In fact 34% of charges are never brought before a jury because the victim is too young to testify. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Much discussion has been given that child molesters do not have two witnesses and with Judicial Committees or in a court of law people are innocent until proven guilty. A shouting match of he said she said is not a convicting case. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Remember Mr. Alva (Samantha Runnion's murderer) had been previously charged with sexual assault of his girl friends daughters. The charges were not substantiated, however, nor were they false. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It is because of the difficulty of proving sexual assault charges based on the testimony of one witnesses that new Federal Rules of Evidence were adopted in 1995. Basically the law allows a previous CHARGE (not a conviction) of sexual assault to be introduced as evidence in a court case. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rules 413 and 414 specifically provide that in any case in which the defendant is accused of sexual assault or molestation, the defendant's commission of any other similar offenses is admissible "for its bearing on any matter to which it is relevant." Rule 415 specifically extends the rule to any civil cases arising out of sexual assault or molestation. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The new rules will supersede in sex offense cases the restrictive aspects of Federal Rule of Evidence 404(b). In contrast to Rule 404(b)'s general prohibition of evidence of character or propensity, the new rules for sex offense cases authorize admission and consideration of evidence of an uncharged offense for its bearing "on any matter to which it is relevant." This includes the defendant's propensity to commit sexual assault or child molestation offenses, and assessment of the probability or improbability that the defendant has been falsely or mistakenly accused of such an offense. Why is this type of evidence allowed in sexual abuse cases? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In support of the new rules, advocates argued that a history of similar acts in child molestation cases, for example, tends to be probative because it demonstrates an unusual disposition that does not exist in ordinary people. In addition, the difficulties proving cases of child sexual abuse were cited to Congress.(Source http://www.smith-lawfirm.com/Rule415.html

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:48:22
Comments
TO JOHN FROM THE BRONX: you need to knock it off! None of us here are into being crude, not in words or thought. You are welcomed here if you want to discuss calmly, without name calling or being crude how you "feel." This web site is NOT about hating the WTS - there are more appropriate places for that which I don't visit myself. Silentlambs is for the sexually abused - those who support them emotionally and spiritually. Most of us do not have the desire to confront JW's - but we do have the desire to protect and help those who want it.PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF. You are being offensive and you are hurting the purpose of this web site. We are commanded to not return evil for evil. No one here advocates evil here. We want justice served with mercy. Bill Bowen has carefully chosen his words and actions so as not to bring "just" reproach upon the Silentlambs or himself. PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF! I know you are angry - but it isn't useful to us here. This isn't about ruining the WTS society, but is about protecting children. Different focus. I will personally ask the webmaster to remove your posts if you continue to be crude and offensive. Soapbox!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:49:11
Comments
Bonnielyn: I hope that last post showed the importance of reporting ALL INCIDENTS of sexual assault. Even if the evidence is unsubstantiated it can be admitted in court later to convict a molester. . . . . . . . . . . I would like to discuss a few points from the current Department of Justices Statistics. The report is entitled Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement: Victim, Incident, and Offender Characteristics. _ I believe this report is best hard evidence available. The introduction of the report states: To law enforcement and the public, sexual assaults, and especially the sexual assaults of young children are a major social concern. While a few highly publicized incidents are engraved in the publics consciousness, there is little empirically based information on these crimes. Until recently, law enforcement and policymakers had few hard facts on which to base their response to these crimes. After reading the facts below I am sure you will agree that the conviction rate for sexual assault is dismal. Probability of arrest and clearance The NIBRS (FBIs National Incident-Based Reporting System)data indicate that an arrest was made in 27% of all sexual assault victimizations. Assaults against the youngest victims were the least likely of juvenile victimizations to result in arrest. An offender was arrested in just 19% of the sexual assaults of children under age 6, compared to 33% of victims ages 6 through 11, and 32% of victims ages 12 through 17. (Source http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/saycrle.pdf An arrest is not a conviction so all told the numbers are pretty dismal for the VICTIMS not for the accused.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
21:11:06
Comments
***Jesika, my dear neice...please hang in there girl. I have read these posts you describe, and I can truly understand why you are so upset. I agree completely that the anger and hated expressed by many have done nothing for the cause. Keep in mind, honey, that this site is public domain and anyone and everyone has the right to express whatever they feel whether we like it, agree with it, disagree, or simply shake our heads at their stupidity. Personally, I was thrilled....to see that admitted Elders are here posting messages, however ironic! Considering that congregation "pions" would be df'd in a heartbeat for accessing this site, amongst others. To the Elders here......welcome. I am very happy that you are here, reading all these posts, reading the horror stories of all of us that have been through hell within the Org. Although this site was created for the abused/molested/raped children, I can understand why topics of doctrine have been raised here, although I'm not the least bit interested in seeing the Daily Text amongst other things posted here. If I was interested in seeing that, I know where to get it. Brother Elder, considering the fact that you were willing to access this site which is considered a big no-no, post messages here too, it seems to me that you are somewhat different than most elders. All of the elders I've known have all been "hardcore", unwilling to hear another side other than their own preconceived notions. I applaud you for coming here. I would like to recommend something to you, just for your own enlightenment. All my life, growing up in the Org, there were regular talks in which the phrase "Make sure of all things" was used. Other phrases, which escape me right now, were used as well to explain that each of us have the personal responsibility to be absolutely sure and convinced that what we believe is really the Truth. I always found it interesting that it was always applied to non-witnesses or those just studying. I took it further; I took it to heart and decided that I needed to know for myself if what I was being taught my entire life (I'm now 42) was really the Truth. Since many references are made in magazines and books to sources for material by those who are not/were not Witnesses, I figured....why can't I do the same thing? Why can't I research doctrine, read material/books written by those who are not Witnesses, just like the Org does? During my search, I stumbled quite by accident upon a book written by a former Governing Body member, yes....Ray Franz. I figured, who else but a former GB member could give me some insight into some subjects, and insight into the inner workings of the GB, who controls and dictates every thought process, belief, and all actions within the Org. I read that book from cover to cover, and I've also read his new, updated 4th Edition of the same title. Brother Elder, that is a book every Witness should read and "let the reader use discernment". If you feel comfortable accessing this site, then I would think you'd also be open to reading details of the GB, how decisions are made about every single thing pertaining to Witness beliefs, doctrines, etc and give yourself the opportunity to read information NO Elder, MS, or publisher is supposed to see. Is it any wonder why the GB "banned" that book? His book can be found at www.freeminds.org I would personally love to hear your comments once you've read it. Reader use their own discernment. Make sure of all......things. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:52
Comments
Appeared in Awake! October 8, 1993 ///// Time noted that this conspiracy is crumbling at last. Why? In a word, education. It is as Asiaweek magazine put it: "All experts agree that the best defence against child abuse is public awareness." To defend their children, parents must understand the realities of the threat. Don't be left in the dark by misconceptions that protect child abusers and not children.//// Be sure, for example, to forestall any attempt by an abuser to create a secret pact. Children should know that it is never all right for an adult to ask them to keep a secret from either parent. Reassure them that it is always proper for them to tell—even if they had promised not to. (Compare Numbers 30:12, 16.) Some abusers blackmail the child if they know that the child has disobeyed some family rule. "I won't tell on you if you won't tell on me" is the message. So children should know that they will never get in trouble for telling—even under these circumstances. It is safe to tell.//// Make sure you get to know well any adults or older youths who are close to your children,///// Listen to the Children!///// IN BRITISH COLUMBIA, Canada, a recent study examined the careers of 30 child molesters. The results were chilling. The 30 individuals had, between them, abused 2,099 children. Fully half of them held positions of trust—teachers, ministers, administrators, and child-care workers. One molester, a 50-year-old dentist, had abused nearly 500 children over a 26-year period.///// However, The Globe and Mail of Toronto notes: "In 80 per cent of cases, one or more sectors of the community (including friends or colleagues of the offender, families of victims, other children, some victims) denied or minimized the abuse." Not surprisingly, "the report suggests that denial and disbelief allow abuse to continue."///// Some of the victims had told on the abusers. However, "parents of young victims were unwilling to accept what their children were telling them," The Globe and Mail quotes the report as saying. Similarly, a government official in Germany recently cited a report that child victims of sexual abuse have to approach adults with their story as many as seven times before they are believed.////// ." ////Isolation////, ////rigidity///, and ///obsessive secrecy///—these unhealthy, unscriptural attitudes are trademarks of the abusive!!!!!!! In the meantime we must do all we can to protect our children. They are so precious! Most parents will readily put their own safety at risk in order to protect their little children. (Compare John 15:13.) If we don't protect our children, the consequences can be horrible. If we do, we give them a wonderful gift—a childhood that feels innocent and free from calamity. They can feel just as the psalmist did, who wrote: "I will say to Jehovah: 'You are my refuge and my stronghold, my God, in whom I will trust.'"—Psalm 91:2//// Thank you again wt website! ty ty ty for writing suce a powerful work! I especially liked, ." //////////////////////Isolation, rigidity, and obsessive secrecy—these unhealthy, unscriptural attitudes are trademarks of the abusive /////////// ARE NOT THE ORG ITSELF THEN IN THIS CLASS? CLASS OF THE ISOLATING, RIGIDITY, AND OBSESSIVE SECRECY- AND ARE NOT THEY THEM SELVES CALLING THIS UNHEALTHY? UNSCRIPTUAL ATTITUDES?AND TRADMARKS OF THE ABUSIVE?????? me

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:42
Comments
To the ex-elder who responded to the current elder in KY: When the doctor collects all the evidence from the abused child, If YOU don't alert the police, THEY will. The questions and arguments you present sound so ridiculous. A room in the back of the Kingdom Hall is probably not the place you want evidence to be stored or displayed. Seems to me you are more worried about making sure criminals don't get privileges than about making sure they are accountable in the eyes of our legal system. Case closed.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
01:19:08
Comments
I AM AN EX JEHOVAHS WITNESS. I WAS BORN INTO THE RELIGION. I LEFT WHEN I WAS 18 YEARS OLD. I NEVER REALLY BELIEVED IN THE TEACHINGS AND MOST OF THE TIME I FELT GUILTY BECAUSE I WAS MADE TO FEEL THAT WAY..LIKE I WASN'T WORTHY. MY MOTHER WAS DISFFELLOWSHIPPED IN 91 AND I NEW WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF ME AND THERE WAS NO WAY I WAS GIVING UP MY MOTHER ...I LEFT AND HAVE BEEN HAPPY EVER SINCE ,.,

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
01:20:04
Comments
CZYKATT@AOL.COM

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:09:16
Comments
Eric Henri, Who associates with the Orleans West Congregation In Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Is a repeated sexual predator and Pediphile, but he all married up now!! good front Eric. at the very least he should be forced to have a letter in his record file, but the society once again is failing to protect the public and the congregation from this type of SCUM. All I can hope is people see this and will want answers. ME Ottawa, Canada

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:33:56
Comments
http://dailymotivator.com/memberflash/rightnow.html I posted this back in May when things were a little tense. I hope that it eases some frustrations.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:44:49
Comments
Hey Bill df or not you are still nr 1. Nordic

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
07:21:26
Comments
I am a person that was molested and raped for 9 yrs and i am so sick and tired of people defending the damm JW'S who did this. What the hell is wrong with you you have a screw lose in that brain of yours? You would think people wanna protect children BUT NO read yesterdays NEWS HEADLINE across our nation ANOTHER SEX RING busted EVEN PARENTS were found to b molesting these kids SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN OUR WORLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE IN SIDE KH DONT DO MORE THEN WHAT THEIR DOING WITH THESE what ever you wanna call a pervert PERVERTS should NOT BE GIVEN more chances I WASNT GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE SOMEONE MESSED MY WHOLE LIFE UP FOR 9 FREAKIN YEARS I WILL have to live with all this BUT SEE I AM LEARNING I AM BETTER THEN THESE DAMM PERVERTS CAUSE I DONT HAVE TO LET THEM RUIN MY LIFE i can go on ALL THE VICTIMS OUT THERE HANG ON BECAUSE SOME DAY JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
07:21:46
Comments
I am a person that was molested and raped for 9 yrs and i am so sick and tired of people defending the damm JW'S who did this. What the hell is wrong with you you have a screw lose in that brain of yours? You would think people wanna protect children BUT NO read yesterdays NEWS HEADLINE across our nation ANOTHER SEX RING busted EVEN PARENTS were found to b molesting these kids SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN OUR WORLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE IN SIDE KH DONT DO MORE THEN WHAT THEIR DOING WITH THESE what ever you wanna call a pervert PERVERTS should NOT BE GIVEN more chances I WASNT GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE SOMEONE MESSED MY WHOLE LIFE UP FOR 9 FREAKIN YEARS I WILL have to live with all this BUT SEE I AM LEARNING I AM BETTER THEN THESE DAMM PERVERTS CAUSE I DONT HAVE TO LET THEM RUIN MY LIFE i can go on ALL THE VICTIMS OUT THERE HANG ON BECAUSE SOME DAY JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
08:18:54
Comments
to that guy rich. jesus is so happy to have found a lost sheep i,m glad you have a brain. your doing the right thing . but don,t be fooled the wt has demonic powers to bring you back. try to dictance yourself from them try fellowshiping with christians in other churches were thier not judgemental . ya,ll be suprised there are many christian people who let the bible speak . for it self . ray franz book is great but there is so much more to learn about the wt. freedom in christ to all. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
08:40:52
Comments
bonnielyn i can almost hear the angels singing to the reply you gave that jw who posted read this. you were right on TARGET in saying if he was willing to go against the wt policy to save just one child. remember jws are taught that anything bad done to them means they are loyal to jehovah in bklyn. oh i mean god in heaven. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:25
Comments
to soapbox i have to say you put up some great posts. but when you say to confront jw,s or the wt your contradicting yourself the whole idea is to confront the wt and let the word out . there wouldn,t be this big molesting problem in the wt if it was not for all thier lies after lies after lies the wt uses to glorfy themselves . that how thier getting away with with the sex cases. let me ask you when your on the street and see jws do you stop and tell them about all the molesters in the wt and how the wt lies to cover it up. i wonder if you got the love of christ to so. sitting hear posting all day and not going out and letting feelings be heard is almost a sin ,let me tell you when i stop and expose the wt i,m a gentleman at the same time i,m not going to let anyone foricate with the word of god and belittle me . thats right i set them up just to show them how they lie to idolize the wt. did jesus not set up the pharisess.in thier lies . see when jw defenders come here and say bill should wear a clown suit etc. and i read it i,ll straighten them right out . it,s called a taste of thier own medicine. and i know jws can,t handle it but they love to dish it out!!!!!this is war i,m doing my part to my ability. if all this abused lambs here posted the names of thier molseters and went to the district attorney office .maybe bill could get this thing going instead of just leaving this couragous man hanging out on a limb .i still stand by that any jw defender who stands behind the wt molester policy deserves the same sexual abuse done to them .what that verse an eye for an eye. that,s right i hit jws with question from left field i try to made them think .i understand wt brainwashing i give them something to think aboutand which ever lie a jw sees first in the wt if they use thier brains they will put it together and see the worst crime in all the wt is the sexual abuse of children. freedom in christ to all. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:24
Comments
TO NAN: Thank you for all the usful and "reality check" information. **********TO ELDER J.B. - it is a comfort to know always that there are elders who are smart, compassionate, and don't see a conflict in caring for the sheep and loving Jehovah. The love is one and of the same. ***** TO JOHN FROM THE BRONX -thanks for toning it down - now I can read your words and understand what you are saying!!****TO JESIKA: I know you are not feeling well - I am so sorry. It is important to remember that this is the place where silentlambs come to be not-so-silent, to express their rage at an "elder" or JW who defends the two witness policy or denies there is a problem is healthy and harmless given it is on "cyberspace" ****************this is not the place for JW's to defend their position without compassion or be sacastic to people who have been harmed or are trying to help and when they do, it triggers alot of justified rage.********************I have found with my own issues I have had to take "a break" throughout the years. Please check how many new people (and storied) who support Bill and Silentlambs that keep posting!!!!! The rage never really goes away and will always reappear when the mind and heart can deal with it. You are in a "rest period" and don't want to be reminded of your own justified anger. A big big hug of comfort to you from me -Love, Claudine.....

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:00:38
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:04:31
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:33:32
Comments
you got to give it to BUSTER onaug 9 12:19:30his statements ring with the sound of fact you have to look at wt history to see were the wt is coming from just a few months ago i had the pleasure to read a new wt. that meat in due season . it said the great wt publication the time is at hand was bible truth???and the sound of judge rutherford on the record player reminded the people of voices of angels from heaven..INTERESTING. ANY ONE HERE READ THE TIME IS AT HAND BESIDES ME . JW DEFENDERS. I HOPE THIS POST DIDN,T UPSET ANY . FREEDOM IN CHRIST TO ALL.AMEM JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:34:56
Comments
I would like to hear personally from any J.W. that was abused sexually & child pornogragphy was involved . Total annonimity a must. Please send to cosmicjill@planetkc.com. Asap is very important!!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:57:01
Comments
Penny, Hi, I am so glad that you posted your story. As you probably have read, there are a lot of lambs just like you, if you can gain some strength from that, it can at least be a blessing! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
12:09:59
Comments
Gerard May Ex. J W since 1983. Mind blowing keep exposing the attrocities. Regards from Ireland

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
12:35:46
Comments
John: I work and go out all the time. I run into the JW's and I do talk about Dateline!! I can't help myself. But I don't tell call them liars or names - I confront them with my concerns. And it never ever ceases to amaze me that they show absolutely no regard for my concerns - they defend the WTS as if it is God. The Evil that prevails is everywhere, not just the WTS - agree or not???? *******************Read Nan's post about the justice system.... it is true what she says. I have a saying: Who is going to protect the children from the Child Protection Agency????? Story after story I have heard about Foster Parents molesting children, CPA ripping children away from their parents on bogus charges only to find later that the parents were innocent. ****************** I don't think the WTS is any more evil than anything else - I think everything is confused, and only God cares about us. Yes, we want to confront the WTS and JW but with righteouness and righteous standards - while they judge with unrighteous standards. I think this is what I mean by not returning evil for evil - and Jesus replaced all of that "law" with love. I do not mean and neither did Jesus mean that we are to love - affectionately those who hurt and harm, or who are hypocrites. Never!!! But we do not want to be "like them" with hateful words or actions - it is hard and I am guilty of doing just that sometimes.***************** Bill has methodically within the "rules" of WTS and using Ceasar's law to bring attention to the injustice of the two witness hypocracy.************** I hate what the WTS has done in the name of God and I hate that I was so seduced by it, that I lost my common sense and ability to think for myself.*******************But I do not hate the witnesses- pissed off- yes. Most of them are seduced, fearful of their own thoughts and think that Jehovah is judging them for seeing the hypocracy.************Now the GB, is another story - they are deliberate in their actions and they scare the "hell" out of me. What they did to the Malawi's is unforgiveable-I have read letters to the Nazi's stating the WTS position on the Jews -it was horrible - evil horrible. But the aveage JW does not know - and I have no answer. If a mother whose own child was molested by an Elder - and no action was taken because the mother is loyal to Jehovah aka WTS to me there is nothing I can say that will change the meaningfulness of her experience. I have tried - and the wall is thick.*********** I don't want a reputation of being a hater of JW's - then I can never speak with them. The Dateline/Panorama/the news articles/the march - if these save one child or parent past JW current JW or future JW from the unhealthy teaching of two witnesses to pedophilia - mission has been accomplished.***********The United States government is not protecting our children - the laws they are passing, the garbage they allow on television, what they allow to teach in the schools are all against family values. It is not just the WTS - but we all expected the WTS to have a higher value of standards.***************One of the biggest errors that I see is the WTS has taken over the family headship.**************Confront without being offensive is my motto, confront with Jehovah's standards - blameless - be blameless. Silentlambs and Bill Bowen, the Andersons, Franz all show a fine example of righteousness tempered with patience. Hey, I am Irish and French- holy smoley; I am a yeller, screamer and a fighter!****** Anyway, John I am sure that I have inner conflicts contradictions and say one thing and the next day have a different view. This whole subject has hit every aspect of my being and I am heartbroken. Claudine/soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
14:17:56
Comments
Claudine/soapbox-Becareful of how you compare things to the WTS and remember that all instituaitons are only real if people surrender power to them. Power is always surrendered not taken. Christian morality is easily preyed upon. Remember that. The statement that the WTS is no more or less/good or bad than anyone else is in my opinion bull. People in other groups do not act nor do what this particualr group does. I refuse to accept that John has been 100% wrong. He is angry over what is and has has been going on. We have the potential to help him work through it. "John I do understand your anger. Many of us have been able to use it in productive ways. Stephen Hanssen has a good program. Just as JWD stated it is a knee jerk reaction to defend your faith. He is right. But I do not condone the conduct that others like him have done like slandering Bill. That is pathetic at best. (I am not saying that you did JWD) The same we all should work at not giving wantan insults to each other they are not productive, they are what is called agitation. They are "thought stoppers." I.e. "Evil for evil."When I was goated with the trinity issue I said no period. Minus trying to put words in my mouth JWD accepted that discussion over. That is not the issue here. Zombies and "evil plans" are not why I am here. Public awarness is why I stick around. When I see the propaganda machine start up Like now like in May I will be sounding off.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
14:23:13
Comments
I would never ever wish this evil upon anyone - not as a parent or as the child who has been sexually abused or raped. This is where I disagree with John - there is no useful meaningfulness is this horrible experience. It ruins lives, precious beautiful children and their families. There must be another way for those who support pedophiles to have empathy and compassion for the ones that are hurting and have been harmed.************Even parents who are JW's lack this empathy for their own children out of the fear of displeasing Jehovah God and bring shame upon his name.***************My whole family has shown empathy to my children's abuser without showing a shred of empathy to my children. My siblings think that I am wrong to not "understand" about my brother who did this to my children.************* None of us are JW's - and I was the only one who studied. This loyalty to a pervert can be conjured up for "any reason" but to do it for Jehovah is way out in left field. I won't speak to my siblings anymore - out of loyalty to my children. I spoke my "peace" - and if they choose to not hear there is nothing I can do. ***********The irony of all of this is they will probably read about the WTS and call me a hypocrite because they will think that I support the JW's - oh well....I thank Jehovah that He saw fit to teach me right from wrong and gave me a heart that is receptive to right and wrong. I thank him for this clarity every single day and scutinize myself so as to always show my gratitude. I don't take it for granted. It is a fine line between being righteous and self-righteous. I cross it all the time. C.E.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
15:03:57
Comments
Gerard May Ex. J W since 1983. Mind blowing keep exposing the attrocities. Regards from Ireland /// Welcome Gerard! glad you stopped by! The lambs and future lambs need all the support they can get! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
16:10:12
Comments
Your web site is great and a true "window" on what has been going on. I live in Spain and have just come back from the U.K. where the shock waves about the Panorama programme were initially great, but all seems to have been calmed down again after reports that the whole programme was put on by apostates and that "Jehovah will sort everything out"....so once again everyone is bending the knee to direction from the platform. I was a JW for 28 years and I have not been associating for the last 2 years for so many different doctrinal reasons, but I am so concerned about this whole issue, and I wish you all the strength you need to deal with the situation. Perhaps Jehovah is using you to sort thing out. After all HIS name is involved!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
16:53:15
Comments
Regarding the comments - Perhaps Jehovah is using you to sort thing out. After all HIS name is involved //Welcome to the silentlamb site! And a special thank you for the comments that you have made! HIS name has been involved, in this and many other issues close to this, the two witnesses policy the org is hiding behind HIS word to excuse that! Regarding booting out the ones who wants to help open the eyes and hearts to this issue again, the org is using HIS word to excuse that! Not only that but even to the point of putting more burden by deceiving the followers of their org into believing everyone that wants to help the children are apostates for doing so.... When if anyone cares to look, their own Awake mag. in 1993 that we have to do ALL WE CAN TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN! As soon as Mr. Bowen and the Andersons proceed with what the Awake told them to do, which was ALL THEY CAN DO TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN they get the royal wt boot! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
17:11:11
Comments
From the Abused active happy JW (1)First, not all abused “silentlambs” as you call us, YES US, leave the organization and embark on a smear campaign as a full time vocation.(Answer) YOU ARE SO RIGHT. You can and should deal with events in the way that is best for you. However this is not a smear campaign. There are many documented cases here and the WTS point of view is not being taken out of context. “Smear campaign? No./Full time? No. (2) I object to all the negativity and insensitivity that is consistently displayed by JW detractors. (Answer) How is being against the policy of “child molesting, Spousal abuse, and abusing the disfellowshipping powers being a detractor? (I admit I think that the disfellowshiping thing is cruel and anti everything that the Jehovah's Witnesses stand for!) (3)Am I evil? Am I brainwashed? Am I stupid? Am I a moron? Am I a zombie?(Answer) I don't know are you? (4)Not all abused JW's take you road you have taken, for your information.(Answer) Nor should you have to. Nor should you have to be silenced! (5)I will continue to proclaim the Kingdom of Jehovah door to door(Answer) Maybe I will come with you and share “Crisis of Conscience.” (6)I am not brainwashed as you claim I am(Answer) If you were how would you know?/////// The Elder (1) I am currently serving as an elder here in a Kentucky congregation. I am relatively young in years (35 to be axact) and have served in 5 congregations already. (Answer)Welcome, I upfront said that I am not a witness nor have ever been. I do however carry 10 years of experience dealing with a JW family. Why were you not honest and upfront in the beginging? Why did you feel the need to covet who you were? There is no threat of violence here so why not be forthcoming? (Glad you were honest though.) (2) I have gathered from posts in this room and from Bill Bowens own comments it make it seem like their is 2 pedophiles in every congregation.(Answer) Where did you read that? I have not found that anywhere. (3) It is also their right to take the matter to police we would not discourage that.(Answer) Then why disfellowship Bill, Erin, and others? Would you have done that? You are not saying what would happen AFTER they go to the police. What you you do to them? (4) I do not know if this is fair to the accused if no witnesses can be provided to validate the claim.(Answer) they have evidence? Is this not just restating the 2 witness rule? (5) Thats all we can do our hands would be tied,(Answer) In my opinion anyone who did not rescue a “lamb,” anyone who covered up a crime has blood on their hands. (6) we offer alot of support for each other (Answer) Even pagans due that. How do you see the outside world? How do you treat those who do not or no longer share your policies or views? (7) you had a bad experience, you felt it wasn't handled properly and you left. (Answer) Bill was railroaded he did not leave! How many more are out there. Once shunned poop has more value than even your own flesh and blood. 20 years of service, 40 years of friendship would be flushed, and for what the hope that maybe the person will come crawling back. (8) Especially having served in so many congregations. There is a lot of good out there. (Answer) Out of how many total world wide organizations have you served? 5 is a rather small number. (9) But for me to leave what I know is the truth especially in comparing other religions (which I have done quite extensively before I became a witness) does not solve anything.(Answer) Is this not violating what “Stark” says? (10) please understand my views as I am sensitive to yours.(Answer) Sensitive how? Will you speak up for Bill? Do you support the action against him? Do you support the current GB position? Why?

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
17:59:06
Comments
to seq. your on the money abour bastardizing the scriptures twisted any way to protect what i see as an evil money hungry soul hungry empire. as for jr brown he,s a pharessie and hypocrite with his watch me twist jws into a pretzel stance on sexual misbehavior. he,s leaving the wt open to some sharp lawyer with his ludicriss statements just wait it will happen thats a prophecy my record is better than the fds. and your so right in the ignorance wt defenders show and that,s because they did not prove all things true. they have to open thier mind and do thier HOMEWORK.that the only way to see the light there are wt articles on this try 3 8 2001 what can we learn from history .and apply it to the wt. and i will stand with you and never budge on child molesters no matter weather people don,t like that i use that wt tactic of intimidation back on them when needed did the wt play by the rules when they shafted mr. bowen . freedom in christ to All. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:57
Comments
10 Aug 2002 Time: 17:11:11 Comments Posted by SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
19:08:51
Comments
soap box were almost on the same page as for the gov,t and child protection agency at least they try . i see the same problems with these institutions as you but i know my grandmother was in an orfanage in the 20,s and it ruined her she never told me much but it was obvious she was hurt there.maybe i gave the wrong impression i just don,t stop and call jws liars i measure my words i tell the same things as you .my concerns how the wt has hurt people . and mislead them and i,m pretty good i try different topics to find thier concerns then i capitalize on it .i give wt articles and dates so they can look it up themselves.i also leave my phone # you be suprised some do call and ask for more info.i go as far with them as thier willing to go. but there are jws i,ve debated hundreds of time like my father and his friends some are very knowledgable i bust them almost all the time. so now i have a factual right at this point to call them lairs and the z____e word. because i,ve proved my point and they can,t honestly back up the wt with lying. and my father knows it. i know i,m causing problems in the co-op city cong. as well as else were cause i got jw asking questions the elders po,s co,s etc. can,t or don,t want to answer . i know because i here it through the grape vine .you know your making an impact when you run into a jw defender in harlem and they know your name . i would love to get some names of some jw child molesters in my area to expose them and cause more trouble . i would have no problem going to court to help the abused and expose the wt. see thats what i,m all about and i,m an asset to the silent lambs . and i,ll try to save the z word for jws that i have grown to love over the years. but sometimes these loved ones need tough love...freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
19:19:24
Comments
CJ, If you do come back in here, I again want to tell you, thank you for writing me the post and sharing that you are an Elder, it meant a lot to me, that you would expose yourself in such a way. My earlier posts have covered most of my topis of issue, so this is just a special one just to say thanks! maybe once you found out that I was never a baptized jw, you didn't feel inclined to answer my questions, that's okay! I understand completely where you feel your loyalty has to lay! Regarding your comment about leaving what you know is the truth, I've not left the truth at all! I've just learned of more truth and the hint of more to be seen! I would never want to sway someone to change how they spiritually believe, their faith, that's why I don't even try to talk to my mother about this, it only upsets her and now in her older years with health problems... I do not want to show her dishonor... One thing she did say that scared me to death though was that 'if this faith is directed to satan, I am happy and at peace and I need to be that way' and all I asked her was that isn't it true that if it seems not from HIM then it's from the bad guy? and this issue with the child abusers is not from HIM right? I didn't know how to answer her with that comment! Anyway, thanks again for your posts to me... bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:09
Comments
Just filling you in. There's an article about all upcoming in Sunday's New York Times.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:27:46
Comments
what can we do to help the lambs get justice after many many years of torment and cover ups.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:37:04
Comments
8/11/02 New york times, front page. Barbara Anderson, Joe Anderson, Bill Bowen, Ya'll ROCK!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:40:02
Comments
what can we do to help the lambs get justice after many many years of torment and cover ups. -- Reply: For starters, Keep the pressure on the media to keep this issue in the news and before the public (write them, send them URLS, newspaper articles from this site, etc.), who in turn keeps the pressure on the law enforcement agencies and the court/legal systems. Write your politicians. Also, write letters to the WTS/GB. Also, see the "HELP SILENT LAMBS" button on the Home page.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:41:38
Comments
YES, YES, YES!!! IF YOU'RE UP AT 3 AM, HEAD OUT TO THE STORE AND GET A COPY OF THE SUNDAY (8-11-02) EDITION OF THE NEW YORK TIMES! THERE WILL BE AN EXTENSIVE ARTICLE ON THE SILENT LAMBS!!! HURRY & HURRAY!!! CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:43:36
Comments
John, you crack me up. You wrote: "you know your making an impact when you run into a jw defender in harlem and they know your name." -- Tell me, were you this "zealous" when you were a JW? (I forget if you were ever a JW or not, I know your father is). Either way, you certainly deserve the title of "Pioneer" with your current street work! :-) I could tell even thru your anger you were "cool." Glad you are leaving out the curse words, though. It's easy for any of us to go a little wild sometimes, especially about this sex abuse subject, and the WT-machine. You must have a mind like a steel-trap being able to remember so many WT-literature details AND scriptures. Keep up the good work and thanks for supporting Silent Lambs. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:44:23
Comments
THREE CHEERS for whoever replied the thought-provoking questions and answers to "From the Abused active happy JW (1)First..." THANK YOU! When I am too tired to write much, I sure do appreciate reading how others express themselves, and enunciate the facts so well. Thanks again. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:45:24
Comments
NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE on "Silentlambs"/Bill Bowens - Read it Here!!!************* LINK TO ARTICLE:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34280&
page=1&site=3#455607
For those who can't wait till Sunday... OUSTED MEMBERS CONTEND JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' ABUSE POLICY HIDES OFFENSES: by By LAURIE GOODSTEIN ****************** William Bowen always considered himself a devout Jehovah's Witness. As a child, he felt it was his duty to go door to door passing out the church's magazine, The Watchtower. Later, as an elder in his Kentucky congregation, he said he saw it as his duty to inform church officials that a fellow elder had abused a child. *************** But when Mr. Bowen contacted the church's headquarters in Brooklyn, he says, he was rebuffed. Frustrated by the church's inaction and by its confidentiality provisions, which he said prevented him from sharing the information with others, Mr. Bowen resigned as an elder in December 2000. A year later, he started a group to monitor child sexual abuse in the church. ****************** Late last month, Mr. Bowen, 44, was **EXCOMMUNICATED FROM THE CHURCH**. Behind a locked door, with PLASTIC BAGS TAPED OVER THE WINDOWS TO WARD OFF ONLOOKERS, he said, three church elders meeting at the church's Kingdom Hall in Draffenville, Ky., found him guilty of "causing divisions." ***************** The punishment was "DISFELLOWSHIPING" COMPLETE SHUNNING. **************** In the past three months, four other people have been expelled from the Jehovah's Witnesses after accusing it of covering up the sexual abuse of children by its members. For Mr. Bowen and other critics of church policies on sexual abuse, the expulsions are part of a concerted effort to keep such abuses quiet. ************************ Expelled Witnesses say the church's own policies and culture conspire to conceal abuse. A panel of church elders, all men, meets in secret to decide each case, a procedure which critics say prevents members from knowing there is an abuser in their midst. To prove an accusation, a child must have a witness to the incident, a condition that is usually impossible to meet. ********************* "This is evidence for the world to see how the Jehovah's Witnesses treat abuse survivors and those who try to protect them," said Mr. Bowen. "They silence them with the threat of disfellowshiping." ******************** J. R. Brown, director of the public information office at church headquarters, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in Brooklyn, said the church had exemplary policies for handling sexual abuse, which were based on biblical standards and had been widely published in church magazines. ******************* "We're not trying to say we handled everybody in the right way and our elders are all-knowing, all perfect," said Mr. Brown, who declined as a matter of policy to comment on individual cases, including Mr. Bowen's. "But we say, if you take what our policy is for keeping our organization clean morally, **IT FAR OUTPACES ANYBODY ELSE'S**." ************************* While the Roman Catholic Church has been engulfed in its own sexual abuse scandal, the same issue is beginning to plague the Jehovah's Witnesses, a denomination that claims one million members in the United States and six million worldwide. ******************** But the shape of the scandal is far different than in the Catholic church, where most of the people accused of abuse are priests and a vast majority of the victims were boys and young men. In the Jehovah's Witnesses, where congregations are often collections of extended families and church elders are chosen from among the laypeople, some of those accused are elders, but most are congregation members. The victims who have stepped forward are mostly girls and young women, and many accusations involve incest. ********************* The scope of abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses is a matter of considerable debate. The church has recently been sued by eight plaintiffs in four lawsuits alleging abuse, one filed in July in Minnesota. Mr. Bowen says that his victims support group, "silentlambs," has collected reports from more than 5,000 Witnesses contending that the church mishandled child sexual abuse. ************************ The church keeps a database of members and associates who have been accused or found guilty of child abuse. Mr. Bowen said church sources had told him the database contained the names of more than 23,000 people in the United States, Canada and Europe. The church says the number is "considerably lower," but will not say what it is. ************************* The church has a firm framework for handling sexual abuse cases. Members who suspect abuse are advised to go first to the elders, who are considered spiritual and moral leaders to whom the members are to turn with their personal problems. Mr. Brown said that the church's legal department advised elders to follow the law in states that have mandatory reporting laws, and in cases in which children appear to be in danger. ************************** The elders are the ones required to judge whether someone has committed a sin like child abuse. If the abuser confesses and is forgiven, the only notice given to the congregation is an announcement that the person has been disciplined. No reason is announced. However, the elders report the person's name to headquarters, where it goes into the database so that abuser is banned from serving in a position of authority. ********************** "If a person can cry a good tune, there are virtually no repercussions and nobody besides the elders ever knows," said Jean Kraus, who said she went to elders in her Queens congregation years ago accusing her former husband of abusing their daughter. She said that he confessed, was reprimanded and was still an active Witness. "They told me that **HE WASN'T A WICKED MAN, THAT IT WAS A WEAKNESS**," she said. *********************** The church spokesman, Mr. Brown, said: "We view such judicial hearings as an extension of our shepherding work as ministers. In other words, **WE'RE THERE TO SAVE A PERSON'S SOUL. IN THESE CASES WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE VINDICTIVE BECAUSE THESE ARE OUR BROTHERS, AND WE WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD CHANGE**." ************************** If the accused denies the allegation, the victim's testimony alone is not sufficient unless there is at least one other witness to the act. The church says its policy is based on a scriptural injunction in Deuteronomy 19:15 that says two or three witnesses are necessary to prove a man has sinned. ************************ Heidi Meyer, a third-generation Jehovah's Witness in Annandale, Minn., said she went to her elders in 1994, when she was 15, to say that from the ages of 10 to 13 she had been repeatedly molested by a fellow Witness eight years her senior, the older brother of a friend. The only eyewitness was her brother, who had once seen the man grab her buttocks as she got out of a car. ************************ The elders asked explicit questions that made her uncomfortable, she said. According to an internal Witness document "PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELF AND TO ALL THE FLOCK," the elders must determine in which category the accusation fits: IF IT WAS "UNCLEANNESS," A ONE-TIME TOUCHING ABOVE THE WAIST; "LOOSE CONDUCT", TOUCHING BELOW THE WAIST OR MORE THAN ONCE ABOVE; OR THE MOST SEVERE, "PORNEIA," DIRECT SEXUAL STIMULATION OR ACTIVITY RESULTING IN ORGASM. EACH OFFENSE CARRIES DIFFERENT PENALTIES, with the most severe for porneia. ************* The man she was accusing insisted that Ms. Meyer had misinterpreted what happened. The elders agreed. ****************** "I was expecting spiritual guidance," Ms. Meyer said. "I was expecting them to genuinely, sincerely attempt to find justice and protect the rest of the congregation from this same thing happening. And none of that happened." ********************* She, like several other alleged victims and their relatives, said in interviews that the elders warned her against reporting the abuse or talking about it with other members. ************************* "They told me if I spoke about it with anybody, I needed to be careful because I could face a judicial committee for gossip or slander," she said. "If they felt I had committed that sin, I would be disfellowshiped." ************************** Ms. Meyer says she learned only years later that Amber Long, another young woman in the congregation, had at age 12 gone to the elders with her parents to report that she had been molested by the same man. Ms. Long, who is now 23, said she and her parents received a letter from the Witnesses advising her to "leave it in Jehovah's hands." ************************** "They said we shouldn't hold ill feelings about our brothers," Ms. Long said. "Since there weren't two eyewitnesses, they said there wasn't much they could do." ************************** Neither Ms. Long nor Ms. Meyer is still active in the Jehovah's Witnesses. On July 2, the two women filed suit against the man they accuse of molesting them Derek Lindala, 30, of South Haven, Minn. the local congregation, and Jehovah's Witness headquarters. Mr. Lindala did not respond to a message left at his home seeking comment. *************************** Barbara Anderson, of Tullahoma, Tenn., said that when she and her husband lived and worked at church headquarters in Brooklyn in the 1990's, she was asked to gather information about child abuse in the congregations. She said she handed over to church leaders dozens of letters complaining about how cases were handled. For her it was a revelation. ************************** "Jehovah's Witnesses like to say that we have one of the most crime-free organizations," Mrs. Anderson said. "But all problems are taken to the elders, and the elders keep them quiet." She said that the documents prompted an internal debate among church leaders, and that when there was no action, SHE LEFT HEADQUARTERS DISHEARTENED IN 1993, after 11 years of volunteering. ************************** Carl A. Raschke, a professor of religious studies at the University of Denver who has written about the Jehovah's Witnesses, said the group was no different from many other insular religions that aspire to theological and moral purity. ************************ "Groups that tend to be very tight-knit and in-grown historically have a higher incidence of sexual abuse and incest," Dr. Raschke said. "That's an ethnological fact. When a religion tries to be thoroughly holy or godly, it's not going to acknowledge that people aren't living up to the ideals of the faith." ****************** On July 25, Mrs. Anderson was **EXCOMMUNICATED**. A week later her husband, Joe, who had earlier resigned as **AN ELDER AFTER 42 YEARS, WAS ALSO EXPELLED**. "It is inconceivable to think elders would investigate an allegation of murder to determine guilt or innocence, so why would we investigate an allegation of child abuse?" Mr. Anderson wrote in his resignation letter. "THIS IS JUST NOT OUR FIELD OF EXPERTISE. We are ministers of God, not police." ****************LINK TO ARTICLE: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34280&page=1&site=3#455607

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:54:48
Comments
For a change of pace, how about some secular history with a twist... ----- "Beware the (GB) leader who bangs the drums of (theocratic) war in order to whip the (JW) citizenry into a patriotic (WTS) fervor, for (WTS) patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it NARROWS THE MIND. And when the drums of (theocratic) war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has CLOSED, the (GB) leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the (JW) citizenry, infused WITH FEAR and BLINDED by (WTS) patriotism, will OFFER UP ALL THEIR RIGHTS unto the (GB) leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:58:58
Comments
JW for 28 Years wrote: I live in Spain and have just come back from the U.K. where the shock waves about the Panorama programme were initially great, but all seems to have been calmed down again --- Reply: NOT FOR LONG. See Sunday's New York Times! --- 28 Years continued... "after reports that the whole programme was put on by apostates and that "Jehovah will sort everything out"....so once again everyone is bending the knee to direction from the platform. ---- Reply: What was SEQ saying about the propaganda machine rolling out? (see her/his above quote). What JW/28 Years says is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of the WT-Propaganda Machine In Action! Oh How I wish the current elders/JWs could SEE SEE SEE this blinding activity by the GB/WTS! (blame it on Satan, blame it on his tool, the media, blah blah blah -- such baloney!). --- Isn't it funny though, the TIMING of the Dateline show. B.Bowen and others were waiting since late last summer for it to air. Some supporters even began to believe it was never really going to happen. Yet, "by Jehovah's will" it did NOT AIR UNTIL AFTER the Catholic Church scandal erupted, which made the WTS LOOK ALL THE WORSE for bashing the C.Church all along over THEIR SEX SINS, and then, WHAMO! the WTS faces public humiliation by having their own sex sins exposed. Personally, I think the TIMING WAS PERFECT. It also would explain why WTS is more DESPERATE THAN EVER TO COVER THEIR A**/IMAGE, because of this very fact, that they POINTED THE FINGER SO MANY TIMES at the sex sins of the C.Church, all the while denying their own. Shame Shame. And now the NY Times will be out in a few hours! Hot Dog! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:03:04
Comments
Some Very Short-Sighted Person wrote: "Seems the Newspaper articles are becoming scarce, I wonder if the fickle media cares about the smear campaign you have going on now?" **** Response: I hope you EAT CROW FOR BREAKFAST when THE NEW YORK TIMES comes out!!! And if you start to choke, please don't come here looking for someone to perform the Heimlich maneuver on you!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:55
Comments
NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE (SCANNED PAGES) -- SUNDAY AUGUST 11th, 2002!!!!---- ---Bill Bowens, Joe & Barbara Anderson
OUSTED--"Silentlambs" Speak out!************Link to Actual New York Times Article (Scans of article)------Link of Scanned Copy of Article:
http://www.watchtowernews.org/nytimes081102.htm

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:06:59
Comments
" the governing body and JW's as a whole cannot be classified or branded as an overall bad people based on 1800s history.." *** Maybe not if their ERRORS had STOPPED THERE. But they didn't. They have continued well thru the Present. You have alot of reading to do yet, young man.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:31
Comments
Nan! THANK YOU for speaking up! I only know of one molester, but it really gets on my nerves these JW who keep trying to say it is "only a few." Bill Bowen and Barb & Joe Anderson know of hundreds (if not thousands) of other cases personally. And I TRUST the are telling the truth about this. The WTS even ADMITTED to the database. So how is it these JWs like CJ and JWD try to say there are "only a few." It is also true what you say how abuse destroys lives, and causes immense emotional torment. To cover it up and/or be told to keep silent is rubbing salt in an open wound. So, again, THANK YOU, Nan, for speaking up and showing everyone that THERE ARE MANY MORE as you, sadly, have had to experience firsthand. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:53
Comments
WOW to the Spider & The Fly story! I never knew the whole thing. That is so PERFECT (a) perfect description of how pedophiles (candy men) work; (b) perfect description of the "candy" (lies) with which the WTS has fed the unsuspecting ones. Thanks for posting it in its entirety, SEQ!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:13:48
Comments
Sheila and Christopher Madonia 807 NE 67th Place Gladstone, MO 64118 This is my letter I sent to Bill to present in his defense --- THANKS SHeila & Christopher! I thought we could not write letters if we were not currently active JWs. I wish I had realized this. I didn't write a letter because I didn't think it would count since I no longer go to the KHall. What do you think Sheila? (I guess it's a moot point now, but I'm curious). Thanks/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:16
Comments
BLM wrote: "Since you've chosen the name JW DEFENDER, you are now a DEFENDER of the JW children too! Right?!" -- GOOD ONE, BLM!!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:17:15
Comments
" Proud to be a JW" asked "What would you say to me if I showed up to one of your rallies? Would you invite me to speak?" I don't see why not. Why not go to the March on 9/27 in NY and find out? The point is not whether an abused person is/was/stays a JW or not, the ISSUE, as all current JWs do not seem to let SINK IN, IS THE WTS POLICY REGARDING THE MOLESTERS, THE WTS' COVERING UP OF THE MOLESTERS, THE WTS' ABUSE OF THE VICTIMS THEMSELVES, THE WTS' DF'ING OF THE VICTIMS & THEIR ADVOCATES, THE WTS' DENIAL OF THE ISSUES, THE WTS TELLING ELDERS TO CALL LEGAL RATHER THAN GO STRAIGHT TO POLICE, THE WTS ENCOURAGING THE JWS TO SUPPORT THE PEDOPHILES IN THE TRIALS, etc. etc. etc. THESE ARE THE POINTS. Read JB/Elder's post, or Buster's posts, or all the past posts asking about the scriptures used to "do nothing" about the molesters (if the WT wants to use Mat. 18:16, then why don't they use verse 17, etc.?) The fact that you, personally, are doing so well is a fine thing, and we are happy for you. But how can you sit idly by and condone the behavior of your "spiritual" leaders? If you, as an abuse suvivor, knows firsthand the damage it did to your psyche, then I would think you would be FIRST IN LINE to assist the abuse survivors who did not fare as well as you, and you would be writing letters to the society asking they COME CLEAN, APOLOGIZE, ACT LIKE MEN INSTEAD OF MICE, QUIT DENYING/COVERING UP, CHANGE THEIR POLICY, etc. etc. And, Since you live in such a nice home, have you signed up for the "Friends of the Lambs" network (see "HELP SILENT LAMBS" button on the home page for complete details). As for "JW Detractors," I swear. Here's another area where current JWs keep MISSING THE OBVIOUS: It is YOUR OWN GB WHO ARE THE DETRACTORS. THEY SET THE PATTERN, THEY MADE THE "RULES," THEY ARE THE ONES WHO DENIED & COVERERED UP, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO TELL ALL OF YOU WHAT TO DO (from the top down). THEY ARE THE NEGATIVE & INSENSITIVE ONES WHO HUSHED UP THE VICTIMS (of course rather than acting like MEN and owning up to their mistakes, they continue to polish it over for the outside world via the PR Dept. and they are experts at providing the "fluff food" for the JWs to swallow, hook/line/sinker). Keep reading here and elsewhere. You'll get the REAL PICTURE sooner or later. Once you know the WHOLE STORY about the WTS, then please come back in six months or so, give it time to digest, because it WILL BE PAINFUL. It's something each person has to learn on their own, and it won't happen until you can allow yourself to SEE IT. --- There, now, nobody called you a moron or zombie, etc. Happy? This wasn't so bad was it? Peace/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:22:01
Comments
I disagree this site has change "so much." When I first found Silent Lambs last Fall (around October or November), there were gobs and gobs of angry posts, and I was also upset by the negativity, since I was still in WT-Dreamland. So I continued to defend the JWs for months thereafter. The point is: There were upset/angry posts HERE ON THIS SITE THEN ALSO. So I don't see why everybody thinks it has changed so much. --- Since the Dateline airing, I finally allowed myself to open up more to what the xJWs were saying by reading tons of more WTS DETAILS (their OWN literature, quotes, their own "behind the scenes" ways of dealing with things, their witch-hunts, UN, all the CHANGES re: blood, military, generation, etc. etc. The changes in the blood policy really killed me!) So now you could say I am an anti-WTS/GB also (not necessarily anti-individual JWs). Because I have now READ ENOUGH to KNOW the WTS I thought I "loved blindly and loyally" is NOT WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE. And then the Panorama show, and then how they DF Barbara and Joe Anderson and Bill Bowen, more covering up rather than ACTING LIKE MEN, SHOWING HUMILITY, APOLOGIZING FOR THEIR ERROR, and CHANGING. But No, they just dig their heels in deeper and deeper, and like COWARDS hide behind their phoney-baloney PR Dept. and lawyers. It REALLY IS SICKENING and enough to make anybody upset. So again, I disagree this site has changed that much, at least from Oct./Nov/ '01 until now (maybe it WAS different BEFORE that time). The point of this site is NOT ONLY FOR LAMB SUPPORT, BUT TO ALSO BRING ABOUT CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE IN WTS POLICY. So if people are ticked off about it, who can blame them? Also, imho, whether the posts sound too upsetting or not DEPENDS ALOT ON WHAT MOOD WE OURSELVES ARE IN when we read them. Some days the "harsh reality" of it all is too much to bear, and it IS best to take a breather from it all. Other days we feel stronger and can stand up and fight. Nobody can feel strong all the time. War IS ugly. But who started the war? THE MEN WHO WOULD RATHER LIE THAN CHANGE, that's who. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:27:17
Comments
WELL SAID, RICH, & WELCOME: "the majority of JWs seem to be on what i can only describe as 'auto pilot'. (THAT'S FOR SURE, AND I USED TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME, SO I CAN SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE) ... well the problem of covering up abuse isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole attitude thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma (RIGHT ON, RICH! THAT IS SO EXACTLY THE POINT THE JW Defenders REFUSE TO SEE) ... i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained conscience (PERFECT DESCRIPTION!) ... i was disgusted by that GB member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he just summed up their intire attitude by what he said. (SO TRUE MY FRIEND, SO TRUE... WHY DIDN'T HE AT LEAST SAY SOMETHING LOVING, LIKE HE WAS SORRY FOR ANY PAIN OR SUFFERING, OR SOMETHING!!! HE COULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO SHOW COMPASSION. BUT NO, BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE; THEY THINK JEHOVAH IS NOT WATCHING). /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:31:33
Comments
RMK wrote: "I tell you the truth CJ. I saw and heard many like you in so called Christian Congregations of Jehovah's witness. You are very polished with your words but it is just the same. You are not truthful. You know what I mean? RMK" ----- Hi RMK: CJ may not know what you mean yet, but finally I DO, LOUD & CLEAR. I was so good at speaking that same "purely false language." /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:32:52
Comments
BLM wrote: "Better to stop the cart before it goes over the mountain than trying to pull it back up after!" -- Hey BLM: I love your colorful analogies! You've been working hard I see, lots of good posts you've made. Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:37:12
Comments
" JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny" ----- Hi Penny! So glad to read your great comments! Right on Right on. And I'm glad you posted about the parent/perverts in the news. I heard it but forgot about it again until I saw your post. Somehow people keep FORGETTING that the pervs ARE EVERYWHERE right under their noses. This is another thing the JWs REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE. So what if they do NOT KNOW of one in their cong? He/she probably just hasn't gotten CAUGHT/EXPOSED YET. THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. Thanks Penny & love ya!/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:51:36
Comments
THIS EXPLAINS IT IN A NUTSHELL: "Carl A. Raschke, a professor of religious studies at the University of Denver who has written about the Jehovah's Witnesses, said the group was no different from many other insular religions that aspire to theological and moral purity. --- "Groups that tend to be very tight-knit and in-grown historically have a higher incidence of sexual abuse and incest," Dr. Raschke said. "That's an ethnological fact. When a religion tries to be thoroughly holy or godly, it's not going to acknowledge that people aren't living up to the ideals of the faith." --- BINGO! NOW DOES EVERYONE FINALLY "GET IT"??? <http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/national/11WITN.html> Ethnological: The science that analyzes and compares human cultures, as in social structure, language, religion, and technology; cultural anthropology.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:56:22
Comments
SLC, Bill needed substantion as to who and what caused "divisions" since we choose not to go because of them, I think that is a more powerful statement then those still attending. Bill wrote and thanked me for my letter, and he knows our standing and the reasons why. We wanted Bill to have the information he needed for his fight. If it helps great if it doesn't it sure felt good to get some of the pain out of my system. As far as the New York Times article if that isn't akin to stepping in poo and pretending it's not "your " shoe that's smelling I don't know what is LOL. What is so friggin hard about "doing the right thing", children should be protected why is that such a hard concept. They claim to love Jehovah but have no real love amongst themselves, it's sick and twisted. If they would only say "we've done this wrong, children are the main priority and we will from hence forth change they way we deal with this issue." But then they would have to be of honest heart to change now wouldn't they. Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
00:59:31
Comments
I just caught up on today's posts and my jaw is still on my desk. I cannot believe the post that I just read from an active Witness. Normally I feel deferential toward Bonnielyn, but you actually wrote: "I would never want to sway someone to change how they spiritually believe." Didn't that strike anyone else? - a JW that respects others' spitituality and personal decisions - and wouldn't try to change them. If I got the sense correctly, I think award for being closest to a crossroad. I'm not deriding you, I'm just stunned. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
01:18:29
Comments
From the Dead Horse Whipping department: Just one more comment to CJ - the Elder. A person would need to be under strict control to have the audacity to put themselves forward as a sprirtual leader (I think you may prefer Shepherd) and still be able to write - seemingly with a straight face, stuff like, "their right to take the matter to police we would not discourage." No positive let's get you some help? But you wouldn't stand in the way of their actually getting actual help from someone that could actually help them. Real big of you CJ - that is quite a load spiritual leadership you got goin' there slick. Here's another gem, "if the accused does not admit guilt we can do nothing in a judicial way" Pair that with, "our hands would be tied," and you have the recital from a man that has been so indoctrinated that he would cite Society directives instead of deciding that he would help. Yup, you got the GB marching orders straight. I just hope beyond all hope that some poor, innocent 12-year-old victim finds someone else to ask for help and guidance. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
01:34:14
Comments
slc WHAMO an other jw defender out for the 10 count . rmk and WHAMO your words are not truthful with that prepared wt propaganda ploy another jwd out for the 10 count it,s amazing with a little training how little david can knock out the giant{WT} and the silent lambs are on the front page of the west bumble pup news. WHAMO its the NEW YORK TIMES> and WHAMO the giant out for the 10 count . holy cow did you see that the giant chasted the lamb throwing shunning, disfellowship,and the ever dreaded eternal death sentence.but then the lamb roared and the giant colasped from the weigtht of the yolk around it,s neck . WHAMO!!!!!!john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
02:41:52
Comments
Bust 'em good, Buster!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
03:03:50
Comments
to slc when my father joined the wt in 72 i was 12 even at that age i saw right through the wt. i,m not glorifingthe catholics but i did learn something about god in 5 yrs of school there. no matter how many times the nuns wacked me with a stick for not doing my homework maybe they were right my spelling might be better. they never told me if i don,t do my homework or go to church god was going to destroy me. i never was a jw and i never promoted wt teachings.but i remember about 75 and all the creators promise for the generation of 1914 ie any awake before nov. 1995 pg 4 now let me ask what creator is the awake talking about we know it can,t be the creator in the bible even the nwt. because GOD CAN NOT LIE !!!! so you ask what creator can it be ???lets open our minds and see any reasonable person as the truth book says will look at all the evidents and then make an informed decision. i know your asking what about the sheeps and the goats well you have to go back to thoses great flashes of light judge rutherford got from the angels at the 1935 convention in st. louis on how the seprating working started then now research the hundreds of times the wt called this bible truth until nov. 1995 now since the creator of the bible cannot lie do i have any arguments with that ???if you believe in jesus i don,t think so . so who can be the creator of such teachings??? i won,t give the answer but i,ll give a clue W___H_O__R if you can figure this one out you can win more alot more than pat sajack gives away. freedom in christ to all. john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
06:01:35
Comments
If the following watchtower policy is true There are certainly no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an allegation of child abuse to the authorities.
" http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=020714.htm
Why was Bill Bowen disfellowshipped? bas www.antijehovahswitness.com

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
08:01:42
Comments
To John. thanks for your comment. the WT cant bring me back to something i've never been to! i keep an open mind on anything that we cant be sure about in the scriptures, even if the WT says 'it means this'. other than those things i believe that JWs as a people do hold the truth of the bible. ***** i said that i only consider myself as part of my congregation and not part of the society. well i believe that to be the best option because i know Jehovahs spirit operates in congs such as mine. we used to have a woman come to our meetings who was involved in spiritism. she was clairvoyant and so could see spirits outside the KH. these spirits would end up going into peoples cars and follow bros and sis home. but never once would they come into the KH. i think that just goes to prove my point. to suggest that the WT has demonic powers would cause all congs not to have the blessing of God's spirit. you may well know more about the WT than I, but as i say im not part of them. true there may well be good christians out there in other churches, and christ will judge them as he will us. i will end by saying that there will be many JWs who will not see Gods kingdom and there will be those unfairly treated by the society who have been stumbled and forced to leave who will be saved. i wont judge anyone who believes in Christ, even if their attitude stinks. its not right for me or anyone including you John to do that. if you suggest that bad attitudes arent found in other churches, then that would be a naive view. you cant attack JWs just because of who they are. if you call yourself a christian then you should show love to those who believe in Christ even if you dont agree with their attitude. ****** if the WT has badly sinned against God, well he will punish them very severely and he will allow those who have worshiped in spirit and truth to escape. those who have been wronged will see vindication from Jehovah. i hope that all those who have been abused and suffered for righteousness will keep Jehovah and Christ in their lives, because vengeance belongs to Jehovah. if anyone wants to email then send emails to: thereflex84@hotmail.com. Rich

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
09:12:13
Comments
Hi, this is a very good and informative site. Do you have an e-mail newsletter? If not, please start one up. I can help if you would be interested. Thanks. Tip tippyk9@yahoo.com

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
09:36:45
Comments
a prayer for bill bowen i think is in order lets pray the holy sprit helps him to let the commitee see the light today. and if not let the holy sprit help expose the judicial committee for the fools who do not except reproof that the wt is . prov.1 my money on bill i can just see the elders foaming at the mouth as they get a lesson in humility. i hope bill brings some millstones i have a feeling there will be some elders there walking out of the hotel wearing one. i think i,ll go to the quarry today and cut out somemore millstones for all the wt defenders who come here and kick mr. bowen and the lambs. order yours today . freedom in christ to all .john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:08:08
Comments
Jehovah God is now exposing the WTS for what it really is. They should be ashamed and embarssed and repentant before God.....but i guess what they're really worried about is their MONEY.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:19:46
Comments
Buster, I am not to sure what your post meant regarding my comment 'not wanting to sway anyone's spiritual beliefs. If I understood it correctly you are thinking that I am a JW, I'm not. I was raised to believe their 'truth' I have felt for years that I failed them and by doing that failed HIM. What I have found regarding the UN, new blood policies, the stocks that the org has in a company that has a contract with the Navy, and most importantly the public statements admitting to sending 'known' pedophiles to the doors of unsuspecting children, all of these and the lamb's case have allowed me to acknowledge that it was NOT I that failed them, but them that failed HIM! My comment was directed to the spirit of someone. I will always hope and have faith that HE is in everyone, who truly believes and loves HIM, so no I would never want to sways someone' SPITITUAL beliefs, what they have been taught, what their mind is telling their spirit, well that's another matter altogether, If their minds see that their what their SPIRITS know, then… I am also not a teacher, if I'm not mistaken the bible specifically says to be careful when teaching the word, it will go harder on those that do.I do not need it anymore harder than it already is! So, either I'm confuseed :-P by your post or visa-versa With the spirit of LOVE bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:48:54
Comments
help I'm a baptised witness who has a child who was abused by a teacher at his school. I'm in turmoil now as I cant't believe Jehovah would allow this to happen with his organisation. But whose who I have spoken tell me your in the wrong. I can't believe this. I need to talk to someone who understands what I feel.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:55:02
Comments
rich thanks for the reply i,m going out for the day .so i don,t have the time now to answer but you show alot of wt. indoctination. and thats were your eternal life is in jepordy. john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:59:17
Comments
Dear HELP!!! If you haven't done so call the police! Call a doctor!!!! Do not let no one tell you that you are at fault, this is now the time to help your child!!! Please email me fursie@sbcglobal.net send me your phone number and I will call you immediately, I can't help much more than that, you may be able to find Bills phone number on here too, or email him! But first Call the police and Doctor, I would think that Doctor first!!!! I am so very sorry for what you are going through right now!!! All of us are here for you. Email me for personal talk!!! Please!!!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:03:01
Comments
Dear HELP!!!! HERE ARE SOME LINKS AND SOME ASSISTANCE TO, LOOK INTO THIS; If your child is Molested what is the first thing you should do? http://www.discribe.ca/childfind/educate/jic/victim.hte http://www.ncvc.org/infolink/main.htm
http://www.ci.san-carlos.ca.us/police/childsab.html

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:12:03
Comments
Dear HELP!!!! I HAVE COPIED YOUR POST AND SENT IT TO MR. BOWEN TOO, If he gets it I am sure he will have approved of my copying the links he has provided on this site and my advice to go to the police if you have not done so already, and the Doctors!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:48
Comments
" As Jehovah's people, we don't need to question things that are our brains can't begin to comprehend." *********** How's THAT for some indoctrinated WTS Propaganda? NEED I SAY MORE???? (That quote is from *Amanda* 8/11/02 6:01 AM, Message 27 in Discussion <JustJWs@groups.msn.com>)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:20:46
Comments
Dear Help! Re-reading your post has made me confused, I had thought the abuse has happened recently may not, by the sounds of it, it might be the confusion regarding the WT policies and the lamb site that you need help with. I am sorry if I got the wrong impression by your cry for HELP I reacted to that. I hope that your child is okay and if this happened awhile ago and it's the issue's here and with the policy that you need help with then I'm sorry for my jumping the gun so to speak! I am still here and we are all here, if you want, you can still email me. and please let us know that your child is okay! or as okay as he/she can be after an abuse! love, me

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:28:01
Comments
Regarding - How's THAT for some indoctrinated WTS Propaganda - Oh how that has hit home! Here I am, telling myself still that the things that I don't understand in the word are not for me to question! I will feel blessed though, that I do not depend on another to explain them to me - I just figure that HE has not given me the understanding as of yet and with faith HE will in HIS time! Am I just to hard headed, not to depend of ANYONE else but HIM to lead me with understanding? Is that not what the word itself says? With faith one CAN move a mountain! Well, how about a Tower too!!! :-) me

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:38:19
Comments
Congratulations to Bill & Barbara and the rest of the team at Silentlambs. NY Times story is great!!! Keep pushing WTBS to tell the truth to the press to the public and most of all the Congregations.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:55:30
Comments
Dear TIP/tippyk9@yahoo.com: Glad you find this site helpful. There is no official "newsletter," but you can sign up for the email list, to be sent any info as it is dispersed by Silent Lambs. To get on the email list, please go to the HOME PAGE, SEE the two rows of "BLUE BARS" across the TOP of the Home Page, and click on the one that says "ADD ME TO EMAIL." That will open up a blank email in your email program addressed to: Editor@silentlambs.org ** And that is how you get on the Silent Lambs Email List. ***** As far as your generous offer to assist in producing a "newsletter," I would suggest that you contact DIRECTLY the owner of the Silent Lambs website, Mr. Bill Bowen, with your offer, since I'm sure all offers of assistance are appreciated. Please again go to the HOME PAGE, and NOW PLEASE SEE the "BLUE BARS" that run along the LEFT COLUMN of the HOME PAGE. The second one down says, "HELP SILENT LAMBS" which provides specific ways you can help, and/or it tells you how to contact the site owner to offer whatever assistance you can, i.e., write to: Assistance@SilentLambs.org ** Thanks again!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:18:06
Comments
Dateline, Panorama, and now the New York Times article!!! I believe its high time we recognize something. Recognize the Hand of God being involved. It is clear, Jehovah God is USING Bill Bowens & Company as His instruments of destruction! Who would doubt that now, I ask? God is using Bill Bowens, the Anderson family and others just like Jehovah God used "Gideon & 300 men" to rout 135,000 midianites-amalekites-easterner invaders to Israel. A seemingly impossible feat for a small band of brave souls. (Judges 7:12; 8:10) But Jehovah gave the victory, which was foretold in a "dream" and told to Gideon. The "dream" indicated Jehovah had "given the entire camp" of the enemy into the hands of "Gideon" and his small band of 300 men! Gideon understood the "dream" and "worshiped" God after hearing it. Because he knew then he truly had God's full backing for the defeat of this enemy of such larger proportions. (Judges 7:12-15)********So, what do we learn from this? The WTS is much larger and more powerful than any one person. It would seem impossible, looking back a year ago, that the things we are seeing, are a reality now. I'm sure when Bill started, it couldn't have imagined just how things were going to turn out. But, he knew he had to stand for "right", and somehow trust in Jehovah that things would work out. And they have! So what do we learn from all of this? Doesn't true victory come from Jehovah!********From what we are seeing, learning, Bill Bowens & company are relying upon Jehovah completely and God is blessing their efforts. They are succeeding because they recognize that they are just like the warrior "Gideon and his 300 men" in this battle against the Governing Body. (Judges 7:1-7)They know, it is Jehovah that has granted success. No, Jehovah is not using big fancy Circuit Overseers and District Overseers, Missionaries and Bethel "heavies" (who continue "hide behind the scenes", but who are all proven by now, yellow-belly COWARDS in reality as everyone can see). Not but Jehovah is using the "lowly one", the humble ones. Jehovah is using a very small humble group of brave, alert men & women to accomplish this great "salvation". Jehovah is "reproving" the worldwide organization of JWs of wrongdoing, Governing Body and all, using only a few good men and women. And rightly, God does this so that we, all Jehovah's Witnesses, would have to know that it is He (God Almighty) that is behind all of this. And it is He that has gained the victory using His Almighty Power against the "evil axis of Brooklyn Bethel". God is showing us all, that He does not condone the Governing Body's works of evil. He is showing that any wickedness done in His Name done by the WTS, even if it is "concealed", will during a time of judgment be fully exposed! (Luke 8:17; 1 Timothy 5:24) **********So then, the battle is "Jehovah's and Gideon's". Now we must ask, who will be brave enough to JOIN the "silentlambs" now, and be on "Jehovah's side" of the issue? Like Moses asked, "WHO IS ON JEHOVAH'S SIDE -- TO ME!" (Exodus 32:26; Judges 7:16-18)******Finally, for jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net, who asked, "Where shall we go", AFTER we leave the WTS? The answer: Jesus promised his disciples, "where there are at least two or more gathered", he would be in their midst. So a congregation is a group of people, 2 or more, meeting together to "incite to love and fine works". And it only takes two people to do this. So we are already a "congregation" of Jehovah's worshipers. (Matt. 18:20; Hebrews 10:24, 25) We are those who wish to "flee away from idolatry" of the WTS. We continue to meet here, at "silentlambs", in the interest of protecting innocent children. We meet right here, where we can freely "speak truth to one another" as God wants. Jehovah has provided you with many faithful brothers, RIGHT HERE. So then, you have all that you need. You do not need to go back to wickedness at the kingdom halls. You are where you need to be right now. (Zech. 8:16; 1 Cor. 10:14)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:44:15
Comments
BAS www.antijehovahswitness.com asked: "If the following watchtower policy is true: 'There are certainly no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an allegation of child abuse to the authorities'"... ----- Dear Bas: "THEREFORE, ALL THE THINGS THEY TELL YOU, DO AND OBSERVE, BUT DO NOT DO ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS, FOR THEY SAY BUT DO NOT PERFORM." (Mt. 23:3) ----- Remember, what you quote comes from the WTS' PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPT., and as it says right on that page, it is for the sole BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC (i.e., to quote the site: "[JWs] have made sure the PUBLIC has access to [this information]..." ----- Their PR Statement also is for the purpose of "schmoozing" the JWs themselves. ----- HOWEVER, what does JESUS think about PUBLIC RELATIONS statements by his so-called "earthly organization"? He says, "TAKE GOOD CARE NOT TO PRACTICE YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IN FRONT OF MEN IN ORDER TO BE OBSERVED BY THEM; OTHERWISE YOU WILL HAVE NO REWARD WITH YOUR FATHER WHO IS IN THE HEAVENS." (Mt. 6:1) ----- What you refer to was a last minute PR "SAVE FACE" POLICY put out AFTER the WTS' hide was already in a sling. It did NOT come about as a PRO-ACTIVE MEASURE out of the goodness of their hearts, but AFTER THE FACT, as DAMAGE CONTROL, once they realized they were being EXPOSED for the hypocrites that they are. [As an "anti JW" I would think you would already know these things. True, it takes a lot of effort to keep up with the slick maneuverings of a "greased pig." The TIMELINE of the WTS' so-called Child Advocate Policies such as this one, has been exposed all along via this site, the emails sent from this site, and the other long-ago- established sites that keep watch on every move of the WTS. Yes, it would take a lot of reading to go back and play catch up, but it can be done.] "Truth Is Stranger Than Fiction." /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:57
Comments
BAS www.antijehovahswitness.com asked: Why was B. Bowen DF'd? ----- Answer: The "charge" was "causing divisions in the congregation." And Praise Jah for that! Finally, THE TRUTH OF ABUSE IS OUT FOR ALL TO SEE, and we get to see WHO REALLY IS ON THE SIDE OF THE TRUTH! And it isn't the WTS and their Legal Machine, who went into High Gear to get rid of the ones doing the EXPOSING (without eyewitnesses, without "defense" witnesses being allowed to appear, no fair hearing, etc. etc.) Why not get yourself on the Silent Lambs Email? The info about that is in a post above. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:05:52
Comments
Dear Help: I am so sorry to hear about your child. Having the trust of an "authority figure" such as a teacher or others, cross those boundaries of trust in such an abhorrent way, is heartwrenching and shattering. Was the teacher prosecuted for his/her crime against yoru child? ----- As for this site, none of us could believe it at first either (yes, we BELIEVED the JW abuse victims, but our minds had trouble grasping, as you state, that Jehovah and/or His "Org" would allow this to happen). Well, other atrocities have happened "in the name of Jehovah" across the milleniums so, once that fact is called to mind, then we can move forward and FACE THE REALITIES of this. First, you need to RESIST GOING INTO DENIAL/TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS that JWs/WTS are "perfect"; then PRAY FOR STRENGTH to Face The Facts; then READ ALL YOU CAN, here and elsewhere. All of us cried bitterly when we first learned these truths about how "Jehovah's ORG" has pedophiles too, and how Jehovah's ORG has handled/is handling these things. It takes TIME to digest it, and it will not be easy, but it must be done lest people keep their heads in the sand (of silence) and allow abuse to continue. I don't know what area you are in, but if you want to talk on the phone, please see the HOME PAGE: HOTLINE: "For victims of child abuse who need further assistance [OR] for anyone to call to present material to establish hard evidence of Watchtower Abuse [OR] to provide information about where to go to get help. 1-877-WTABUSE, 1-877-982-2873." If you are in my area, Silent Lambs has my phone number and you can get it from them. We've all been where you are emotionally/religiously. If you are not in my area, SilentLambs has a network of friends in other areas, and I am sure either they will help you and/or they will direct you to someone in your area whom you could talk to personally. Hang in there! Talking/writing/ reading DOES help tremendously! So please come back and tell us if you got the help you are needing, and if/when you are feeling better. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:22:39
Comments
The Jehovah's Witness organization is dominated by sexist, small minded, ill-educated men. Young people, especially woman, are extremely vulnerable to the emotional, spiritual, and physical abuses that are inflicted and covered up "in the name of Jehovah". Lesa McLaughlin Chihak LChihak@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:26:28
Comments
***********THE MOLE*********** I will say this to those who need an answer, to remove the doubt. Some will likely condemn certain information as an airing of our dirty linen before the public. Strangely, these same ones generally do not object to the airing of the dirtly linen of other religions and may, in fact, take great interest in it, even publicize it widely. But they feel that what happens within their own religious organization should not be discussed outside its confines. The hard fact is, among the Jw organization today there is simply no possiblity for such discussion to take place. Anyone attempting to do so would be viewed as showisng a rebellious spirit and would only result in further action in removal. Since the information cannot be discussed within, and if it is not to be discussed outside the structure, that means that it must be left undiscussed, ignored. Some of course, would like it to remain that way but to many of us are now whispering and others such as myself are posing questions that could only lead to more questions. If the Organization can leave this matter without a response, so they will reap the rewards from many of us who have serouis doubts now. No one today has a divine commission as a prophet or an apostle, but we can follow thier example and do what is right, as Ray Franz and Bill Bowens is doing. Alerting people to the realities and aid them to arrive at the right conclusions. "I can say this, that Ray Franz and now Bill has made me ponder more seriously than ever the meaning of major portions and teachings of Christ............***The MOLE****

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:29:15
Comments
Rich: Thank you, thank you, thank you. So your Kingdom Hall parking lot is infested with demons? They follow people home in their cars do they? Hang out by the door, maybe even smoking evil spirit-world cigarettes while waiting to pick out someone they feel like haunting for the rest of the day? - because they can't come in, of course not. Do they stay with these hauntees until they can hitch a ride back to the Hall for the next meeting? Thank you for posting to this site and making the Silent Lambs point. Thank you for firing off the 'vengence is mine' snippet. Thank you for showing how you use it to justify standing by while a child is abused, while someone that tries to help is chastised right out of the organization. Thank you for being so open that you would let eveyone see that you are a certifiable, superstitious nut. Thank you for the entertainment. It would be a bit more enjoyable if the stakes weren't so high. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:31:58
Comments
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! to SILENT LAMBS.ORG, to SILENT LAMBS INDIVIDUALLY, to HEIDI MEYER & AMBER LONG!!, to BILL BOWEN & FAMILY, to BARBARA & JOE ANDERSON, to ALL THE OTHER ADVOCATES FOR SILENT LAMBS! and to ALL THE OTHER LAMBS INVOLVED IN LAWSUITS (past/present/future) against their perpetrators/the WTS/their former congs. --- THE NEW YOUR TIMES ARTICLE WAS ASTOUNDING!!! JEHOVAH KNOWS HOW TO MAKE GREAT USE OF "Satan's [so-called] Tool" [THE MEDIA] FOR HIS OWN DIVINE PURPOSES!!! APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! PRAISE JAH IN THE HEIGHTS ABOVE! GOD BLESS THE LAMBS and THE NEW YORK TIMES!!! --- <SMILING WIDE> /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:37:12
Comments
HOW MANY? HOW MANY? "ONLY A FEW," YOU SAY? THINK AGAIN: "'silentlambs' has collected reports from more than 5,000 Witnesses contending that the church mishandled child sexual abuse." ----- Yeah, SURE, ONLY A FEW + PLUS + 4,900 !!!!! [The New York Times, 8/11/02] ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:40:22
Comments
" The church says the number [23,000] is 'considerably lower,' but will not say what it is." ----- WELL, WHY NOT? IF IT IS SO MUCH LOWER, WHY NOT SHARE THAT PIECE OF "GOOD NEWS"? Would we not be HAPPY to hear the "considerably lower" number? ----- [The New York Times 8/11/02] ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:46:20
Comments
Bonnielyn: Looks like I didn't read your post carefully enough. I inferred your statement 'never left the truth' to imply that your were still in. I missed that you never were in. It did seem a bit out of character - Confused (Buster)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:50:22
Comments
PEAK INTO THE MIND OF A PEDOPHILE and THE MIND OF HIS LUKEWARM "OSTRICH-LIKE" SUPPORTERS: "The man she was accusing INSISTED that Ms. Meyer had MISINTERPRETED WHAT HAPPENED. The elders AGREED." [The New York Times 8/11/02] ----- "LET THE ONE WHO HAS AN EAR HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CONGREGATIONS: I KNOW YOUR DEEDS, THAT YOU ARE NEITHER COLD NOR HOT. I WISH YOU WERE COLD OR ELSE HOT. SO, BECAUSE YOU ARE LUKEWARM AND NEITHER HOT NOR COLD, I AM GOING TO VOMIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH." [Revelation 3:13,15,16] ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:51:06
Comments
That should have read: PEEK...

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:07:13
Comments
At 3pm/EST, The NY Times article: "Ousted Members Contend Jehovah's Witnesses' Abuse Policy Hides Offenses" is NUMBER SIX (6) of the TOP 25 MOST E-MAILED ARTICLES! HURRAY!!! /SLC http://www.nytimes.com/gst/pop_top.html

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:29:59
Comments
LOL Buster! I have never lost THE FAITH my faith has alway been towards HIM! And that I will never lose! If you read my story of just a glimpse of my abuse you will have read that when I was 8 years old, I had a step-father that I now believe HE was using to save me.. My step-father drilled two things into my brain, 6x9=54