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August 2002 Guestbook
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Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:18:53
Comments
Someone wrote: "If I am not really mistaken one of the
worse type of person to Jesus was a hypocrite!" ---
Yes, and Jesus didn't need a PR Department to whitewash his
dirty laundry either. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:04
Comments
Thanks for the child abuse training manual/study investigation.
Sounds like it wouldn't take much if the WTS REALLY REALLY
wanted its elder to have some "training." But then
they don't really care how sloppy they handle things because
they'd rather stay in denial and keep it all undercover and
behind closed doors. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:54
Comments
PRESS RELEASE from Silent Lambs --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:10:42 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
Joe Anderson Disfellowshipped --- 8-1-02, Addition to 7-31-02
PRESS RELEASE --- JOE ANDERSON-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-31-02 Jehovah's
Witness child advocate --- WILLIAM H. BOWEN-DISFELLOWSHIPPED!
7-25-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate --- BARBARA
ANDERSON-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-25-02 Jehovah's Witness
child advocate WHY ARE THOSE WHO SPEAK OUT FOR CHILDREN BEING
DISFELLOWSHIPPED? --- WHY IS JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' GOVERNING
BODY ORDERING CHILD ADVOCATES DISFELLOWSHIPPED? --- Joe Anderson-67
of Normandy, TN, husband of Barb Anderson and a faithful Jehovah's
Witness for over 50 years, resigned as an elder of over 43
years in protest of Watchtower policy on child abuse in June,
2002. In his letter he humbly requests the church to make
needed changes to protect children. On Wednesday July 31 he
was disfellowshipped at a judicial hearing, charged with, “causing
divisions” because he sent a copy of the letter to fellow
elders in his congregation and two members of the Governing
Body who were personal friends. While he plans to appeal,
Joe comments, “I stood up for children and by the judicial
committees actions directed by the Governing Body, they protect
those who rape children.” 931-455-6910 --- William H.
Bowen, of Calvert City who is founder of the organization "silentlambs," (www.silentlambs.org)
a support group for victims of child abuse who were molested
as Jehovah's Witnesses, spoke out as a former elder
on Dateline and Panorama about how children are being harmed
by Watchtower policy. Last Thursday July 25, he was notified
that he had been disfellowshipped in a secret hearing. He
sent his appeal on Monday. Bowen comments: "The leadership
has decided to silence anyone who identifies this problem
by destroying families through disfellowshipping. Hundreds
of abuse survivors have suffered a similar fate at the hands
of these henchmen, this is a public evidence of how Jehovah's
Witnesses directed by the Governing Body have created the “pedophile
paradise.” 270-527-5350 --- Barbara Anderson, 62 of
Normandy TN, was disfellowshipped by an announcement on Thursday
July, 25 for speaking out on child abuse. She is a former
researcher who worked for the Church's Writing Department,
in Brooklyn, New York, she is featured on Dateline speaking
out about child molestation cover-ups that go all the way
up to the denomination's Governing Body. Anderson, learned
Sunday that her appeal was denied, said the church is acting
''so that Jehovah's Witnesses will feel that they are justified
to say to others that we are liars.'' 931-455-6910 --- The
above individuals represent over 130 years of active service
as Jehovah's Witnesses, over 25 years in bethel service,
and well over 40 years in full time service. They all three
have been disfellowshipped for “causing divisions”,
yet not one person has left the faith because of their actions.
What was the evidence against them? The committees produced
letters written by members of the Service Department along
with other elders. Watchtower has just created a new policy,
that is, letters can now appear as eye witnesses to disfellowship
in face of a denial. Is this really the proper application
of Deut. 19:15? Could eye-witnesses in Biblical times just
write there accusation on a scroll and that be used as a testimonial
basis to stone a person to death? Are victims of abuse with
accusations awarded the same autonomy? --- “Let the
reader use discernment.”
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:34:08
Comments
Hi SLC, bjc here. --- You wanted know about the "Two
Witnesses" (Rev. 11:3) and whether the author of the "Report" wants
to get back in the JW organization. *** The author
of "The Report" believes there will be two great
gatherings of Jehovah's Sheep from the JW Organization, away
from the clutches of the Governing Body and WTS. *** THE
FIRST GATHERING. *** The "Tents of Judah" will
be the first to be gathered from the JW organization. (Zech.
12:7; Malachi 3:16, 17) These are the ones The "Report" shows
to be a great number of JWs who have been "killed" or
executed (disfellowshipped/disassociated) in the past for
the Name of God, as being "martyrs for righteousness" in
God's eyes. This would include any JWs who was mistreated
by the WTS and excommunicated unfairly, for ANY REASON many
years ago. God knows this, and will be the final judge in
their cases. Bible prophecy indicates that any of these "executed" ones
who still wish to serve God, and has not lost his faith in
God completely, will be gathered. The author points to Ezekiel
34:1-21 as his "proof" text, which he believes shows
prophetically that it is God's purpose to gather all of his
injured or abused sheep, all those who have been treated unfairly
and "pushed" out of the fold, to the "outside" of
the JW organizational fold, by wicked "shepherds"/elders
with "horns", and scattered across the earth to
oblivion. This is the FIRST gathering of His sheep. (Ezekiel
34:21) *** Bible prophecy indicates that Jehovah
will accomplish this great "gathering" work of his
injured sheep, "on a day of clouds and thick gloom".
(Ezekiel 34:12) A time of great distress for JWs. The author
of "The Report" sees himself to be among those gathered
in the first group. Those gathered during that distressful
time of "clouds and thick gloom". Therefore, the
author does not have any desire to return to the JW Organization,
as it exists today. Especially since he believes it is truly
lead by the nefarious "man of lawlessness". (Jer.
30:7) "The "REPORT" also speaks of a second
gathering of JWs "sheep". *** THE SECOND
GATHERING OF JEHOVAH'S SHEEP *** The second group regathered
from the JW Organization by God, prophecy indicates will be
The "Two Witnesses" who are discussed in Revelation
11th chapter. *** (Volume II of "The Report" covers
this information in detail. Volume II of "The REPORT" is
unreleased at present, and only exists in manuscript form.)
In short, The "Two-Witness" movement represents
a "reform movement" within the JW organization that
will "wreak havoc" upon the organization in its
finality, due to powerful High Officials, who join in the
movement, at the behest of Almighty God. Much damage is done
by these High Officials for Reform (the Two-Witnesses) although
they do not totally destroy it. But the JW organization will
never be the same after this public, powerful "break
in the brotherhood" by these high officials of the WTS.
(Zech. 11:14) This powerful "break in the brotherhood" of
JWs, this great division within it, will cause many, many
individuals (10s of thousands) who have served for many years
faithfully, to voluntarily leave in TOTAL DISGUST of the WTS!
Many will be "removed" from their "office" of
oversight within the congregational arrangement, before wanting
true "reform" for the JW organization. Also many
will be forced out, by way of Disfellowshipment or disassociation.
(Rev. 12:2-5) Amazingly, included in this number will be powerful
JW officials such as Circuit and District Overseers and possibly
men of higher rank within Bethel branches worldwide. These
powerful men, are hidden power-sources of the "reform" movement
even now, but are not commonly known as of yet. These powerful
men of influence within the JW Organization will reveal themselves,
much to the chagrin of the WTS and G.B. This revealing of
themselves, will undoubtedly place the JW Organization under
incredible stress. *** Bible prophecy reveals
these men (High officials) will become visible opponents of
the WTS and Governing Body. Prophecy reveals, the "silent
lambs" movement will be one of the primary reasons for
this situation, fired by all of the bad press associated with
it. (See Ezekiel 36:3, 12-14) *** Then too, the
secret 10-year UN Scandal will re-surface too as a primary
reason for this open "revolt" against the WTS and
the G.B. Outright "idolatry" of the Governing Body
and the UN/Scandal will be at the core of this "revolt" against
accepted WTS evil practiced. (Ezekiel 43:7-9; 44:7,8) *** Thus, "The
Report" speaks of this situation, as the "Two-Witness" Movement,
one of "repentance" and reform for JWs. One of "sackcloth" is
worn by penitent JWs, where true "repentance" is
sought from God. This is the second group that God will gather
from the wicked WTS. (See Rev. 11:3) But in the end despite
their faithful efforts to lead the rank and file to "repentance",
still, Bible prophecy reveals the overwhelming, massive wickedness
of the G.B. and WTS will prevail because of the mindless "worshipful" attitude
of the majority of JWs, resulting in the tragic removal from
the JW organization, of many conscientious and faithful pioneers,
ministerial servants, elders, Circuit Overseers, District
Overseers, Missionaries, and Bethelites of High rank. These
ones will not be able to continue to stomach the rank apostasy
shamelessly practiced and espoused so openly by the JW majority. *** After
leaving the JW organization, these faithful brothers will
be regrouped into a new spiritual nation, for God's glory.
Because it was God's will all along for them to leave apostate "Jerusalem" to
themselves, for total destruction before God as his "enemy".
(Rev. 12:2-5) *** Bible prophecy indicates that what's left
of the filthy JW organization, after the faithful leave, will
become as an organization, and will be revealed in the end,
as infamous "Babylon The Great"! (Rev. 18:2-4)
*** Bible prophecy indicates the FIRST GROUP of JWs,
who prove to be a little more discerning as keen Bible students
than the second group, will make their exodus BEFORE the "Two
Witness" Reform Movement brings distress upon the Governing
Body. The FIRST GROUP of individuals will leave around the
same time the big fight gets underway and gets out in the
open for the public to see. Their "birth" is imminent,
namely the FIRST GROUP of dissenters. The JW group that Jehovah
gathers. (Micah 5:3; Isa. 66:5-9) *** Here
is a little information posted by "MDS" (the author
of "The Report) back in 2001 on the subject on JW.com. *** "...In
the days immediately ahead, Zechariah 12:2,3 shows "Jerusalem" will
come under powerful, restraint, "siege" even, by
the world at large. Certain "events" have caused
this to occur, EVEN BEFORE the "Great War" is concluded...even
before. A milder but much needed "righteous indignation" from
God for the practice of "sin." But this is NOT ALL
that comes upon them, since "sinful" Israel, does
not repent...does not see the need for "repentance" before
their God, Jehovah. Even though, the "Reformers",
the "Sheiks of Judah" and "inhabitants of Jerusalem",
the "Two Witnesses" movement of Revelation 11th
chapter strongly advocates "repentance", demonstrated
and depicted in scripture as wearing "sackcloth" garments...still,
no repentance, on the part of "Israel." They ignore
this "repentance" message from the "Two Witnesses." For
this, mystery "Israel" will indeed, experience many "words
of abuse" against them, during this time, from the world
at large...all during this time of advocated "repentance" for
the nation. -- See Ezekiel 36:12-14; Zechariah 12:2-8; Isaiah
43:28; Revelation 11:3-6 *** However, AFTER
the "Great War," mystery "Israel," will
be considered, earthwide "enemies" of mankind in
general . However, during the 3 1/2 year "witnessing" period
of "repentance" by the "Two Witnesses" to
the JW Organization, particularly in the last year and a half
of it, "Israel" will surely experience stinging, "abusive
words" and other, comparatively milder forms of persecution
directed at them because of a practice of unforeseen practice "sin" before
God. Nevertheless, because of "sin" of leadership,
thus the whole nation of "Israel" is guilty and
must "answer" to God, according to Leviticus 4:3.
The scriptural principle holds true today. -- Please carefully
consider Ezekiel 36:12-14." *** Also
this comment" posted in the same thread... "...Bible
prophecy indicates that a major split or major break in the
brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses, resulting in two factions
of JWs, divided off from each other, but co-existing within
the same worldwide congregational fold at the same time will
occur. This division, which already exists, become MORE ACUTE
AFTER, the pivotal date of October 7, 2001...the anniversary
date of carrying the Name of God upon themselves as a spiritual
nation for 70 YEARS! WHY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE GOD'S PEOPLE,
MYSTERY "ISRAEL" OF OUR TIMES October 2001, is the
70th anniversary of the time when all JW congregations worldwide
were in position to fully understand what it meant to accept
that Name, to carry that Name, Preach that Name, the Name
of God, upon themselves. They AGREED before God, Jesus Christ
and all of the Heavenly Host, and even earthling man, yes,
to carry that Great Name upon themselves -- To carry the weighty
responsibility to "Live Up to that Great Name," upon
themselves. It was a Covenant Arrangement between God and
themselves as a Nation. Numbers 6:27 shows, God's "Blessings" came
upon them as a "Covenanted" People before Him...because
they agreed to "carry His Name upon themselves. -- See
Deut. 26:2; Deut. 28:10; 1 Kings 8:41-43; 2 Chron. 7:14; Daniel
9:19; Jeremiah 25:29; Acts 15:14; Acts 15:17; Romans 2:24;
1 Timothy 6:1; Hebrews 6:10; Revelation 14:1 ***
Mystery "Israel," The Answer: Jehovah's Witnesses
are mystery "Israel," because primarily, they carry
God's Name upon themselves, as a spiritual nation or people.
Thus they have been permitted to enter a "Covenant" Relationship
with Him, because of this. This could only have happened,
unless God allowed it. At present, because of bad leadership,
the spiritual nation is "acting wickedly against that
Covenant." (Let it be noted, there are other practices
and teachings of the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses which also
help us to identify them as mystery "Israel" of
our day that are NOT mentioned in this treatise.) -- Daniel
11:30 It was indeed, the time when the spiritual nation began
to embrace that Great Name before others, yes, preach that
accepted identification, that Great Name, unto the world at
large. A very, very heavy responsibility indeed...to "declare
that Name" to others. -- Deut. 32:3 Psalms 105:1,3; 2
Timothy 2:19 Notice, "In order that the leaders of the
world might be duly notified of this proper designation for
Jehovah's people this resolution [adopted previously July
26, 1931 at Columbus, Ohio Assembly] and the text of Brother
Rutherford's convention address were published in the booklet
The Kingdom the Hope of the World...During October of that
year [1931, exactly 70 years ago] a campaign was conducted
by the congregations to visit every clergyman, politician
and big businessman in their territories with this booklet.
In just the United States and Canada 132,066 booklets were
put out in this way. Within the next few months this booklet
reached the homes of five million others in all parts of the
earth." -- Jehovah's Witnesses In the Divine Purpose
(pub. 1959), page 126, par. 2 October 1931 -- October 2001
... a 70-year period...of Carrying God's Name...a period of
special "Discipline" or instruction from Him...70
Years of Discipline Upon Israel. ***
These events spoken of in this writing, are sure to come,
based upon Bible prophecy. The "Reformers", make
up the "Two Witness" Movement of Revelation 11th
chapter, as we see it among JWs as a nation...as they work
among them today. Even now, the "Reformers" and
the Non-Reformers co-exist together in the JW Organization.
We are quite aware that many JWs are not for any form of "reform" at
all. They follow the presumed "F&D Slave" implicitly,
completely without question. Still, very shortly both groups
will be divided by "heated issues"...after October
7, 2001. However, they will continue to co-exist for a time...still
staying together for a period of time. But their "division" will
become more pronounced, AFTER October of 2001. It will become
visible at that time, much more open, as to their "differences." Thus,
a visible, major split is foretold in prophecy for the nation
of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses at that time. The
split will become visible...open for the public and all to
see, an already existing split...for now about 2 years. ***
This VISIBLE split occurs, as Bible prophecy indicates approximately
the same time the "King of the North" in the person
of the "small horn," surfaces on the earth's scene...when
the spiritual "rebels" against God, "act to
a completion." This will be a time for special ACTION
for the "sheiks of Judah," who are urged on by the "inhabitants
of Jerusalem," reformer supporters. The "Sheiks
of Judah" will be encouraged by these newfound supporters,
the "inhabitants of Jerusalem." It will be during
this time, a time of special "blindness" dealt out
by Jehovah God upon "Israel's" leaders for the practice
of "sin" when the "Sheiks of Judah" wreak
havoc upon the JW organization, and the fight, the differences
become quite VISIBLE. -- Please carefully consider Zechariah
12:4-6. *** At this time, the "1,260
days" of "witnessing" or "prophesying" on
the part of the "Two Witness" Movement, will indeed,
be nearing its finish or completion ...with close to 2 years
of that particular period of "witnessing" already
passed...the "break in the brotherhood" of "Israel," between "Judah" and "Israel",
will now be more pronounced, more discernable...all around
this Great Anniversary Date of October 7, 2001. God is always
on time to carry out His Word. Bible Prophecy brings it all
together for us...in perfect blend and perfect harmony. --
Zechariah 11:14; Daniel 8:23; Revelation 11:3; Isaiah 19:2-4;
55:8-11 *** Also, this comment: "... Just
as these things start to occur, a small "remnant" from "Israel" (the "Tents
of Judah") will begin to see, how lovingly, Jehovah God
has provided many, many clues to assist his people during
this time of "Great Distress," through Bible Prophecy.
This is something we will have to admit, when we see these
events occur...Even those who scoff. -- Zechariah 12:7; Amos
3:7; Jeremiah 30:7; 1 John 4:8; Acts 13:40, 41 "Alas!
For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like
it [the "Great Tribulation" upon "Jacob"],
and it is the time of distress for Jacob [or "Israel"].
But he will be saved even out of it." -- Jeremiah 30:7
Yes, mystery Israel "will be saved even out of it," ...
this "Great Tribulation" coming upon the spiritual
nation, for their many acts of "sin" and "transgression" against
God. The God of the "Holy Covenant" that they VIOLATE
continually...following the wicked, nefarious "Man of
Lawlessness," who is UNREVEALED at the time of this writing
before "Israel." -- Revelation 7:14; 2 Thess. 2:3-12.
*** bjc *** Link for post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11937&site=3
PS: If you would like more information on the book, or would
like to receive a copy of "The Report", you can
contact the author at: emcpublications@yahoo.com Hope this
helps. *** bjc
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:55:02
Comments
ANYONE KNOW IF THE ELDERS HAVE HAD THIS KIND OF TRAINING?
Implications for future training include longer and more intensive
training periods which involve practice time, observation,
and working as a secondary officer with a trained investigator
before the trainee becomes a primary officer for the investigation.
Key issues for training include child sexual abuse dynamics,
children and suggestibility, the sexual abuse disclosure process,
child development issues, the use of non-leading questions,
the use of interview aids, fact vs. fantasy, rapport building
with children, discussion of private parts, and setting the
stage for a spontaneous disclosure.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
01:01:14
Comments
SLC = it's me bonnielynn, I've been posting and not leaving
my name, don't know why, just got so worked up, I got the
info about the training on a fed government site. there are
a lot of things to go through, I was hoping to find a fed
law to help! If we can find that we may be able to get some
REAL serious eye openers! love me, bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:01:27
Comments
Request to Jehovah's Witness people: Help me to find (in the
bible) the Great Crowd's plan of salvation. The anointed
Christians plan is covered quite well. I do not see anything
about a plan of salvation for a Great Crowd.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:33:23
Comments
So sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was yelling, just a
little lazy on the keyboard. I will take all of your comments
under advisement. FUZZ
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:41:58
Comments
Please show me just one scripture that says "come to Jehovah's
organization for salvation". Just one scripture!
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:28:33
Comments
>
http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numbertwentythree.htm> And
what is a pedophile? As sex researchers you might think he
or she is a person who is exclusively or to a significant
degree sexually attracted to pre-pubertal children. !But
as observers of the social and political scene you would have
to conclude that a pedophile is a monster who attacks and
defiles innocence.!On this definition
there can be !no such thing as an innocent or non-practicing
pedophile,! though there are in fact saintly individuals
who manage heroic life-long feats of restraint – people
who, especially if they are elderly bachelors, find themselves
rewarded with nothing but constant suspicion. A pedophile
thus by definition cannot be an affectionate person, !nor
can a child be fond of him once he is unmasked like some alien
in a horror movie.! He may for years have seemed
to be a pleasant, caring, kind, decent, honorable man, but
of course that is all part of his cunning disguise. !And
there can be no legitimate private thoughts and private fantasies
where such a monster is concerned.! How can the policies
insist that the accuser face their MONSTER!SHAME
ON THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE ORG! WHY DON'T THEY
PUT THIS IN THEIR WATCHTOWER MAG!
BLM
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:50:57
Comments
Here are a couple more little email addys that might be of
assistance! bonnielynn <President George W. Bush :::
president@whitehouse.gov --- Vice President Richard Cheney :::
vice.president@whitehouse.gov
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:56:51
Comments
Hey, since this IS a world wide issue...inquiries@un.org <inquiries@un.org>...
If the WT can be a member for 10 years, must not be anything
wrong with sending a few hundred emails! BLM
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
09:11:08
Comments
It is a grave injustice and shame that because 6 million people
were told by a 'worldly' org. that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES who
HE will save! that these 6 million people actually believe
it! How can all of them believe this? Is that not 'judging'
everyone else? What about the men who brought down that
plane on Sept. 11 and saved a lot of innocent lives, forsaking
their own like for others? What about all the people
working so hard to try and save ANYONE at the trade center?
DOES EVERYONE THINK THAT THE ONLY HEROS THAT DID THIS WERE
ALL WITNESSES? What about them, they are going to go to
the FATHER and HE going to say 'OH, THANKS FOR THAT BUT YOUR
NOT A JEHOVAH WITNESS SO, SO I DO NOT KNOW YOU! I don't
think so and if anyone else thinks so then they are the greatest
evil, LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR, LOVE FOR HIM, IS WHAT IS REQUIRED!
NOT WHAT WORLDLY ORG YOU ARE A MEMBER OF! AND YES THEY ARE
A WORLDLY ORG! BRAGGING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE BUILDING, BRAGGING
ABOUT HOW MANY SLAVES THEY OWN! AND DIS'ING OTHER RELIGIONS
FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY THEMSELVES DO! HOW MUCH MORE
WORLDLY CAN AND ORG GET! SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO THINKS
THEY ARE BETTER THAN ANOTHER! THAT THINKS A CHILD'S CRY
MEANS NOTHING TO THE FATHER! SHAME SHAME SHAME, AND
I AM HEARTILY SICK OF NO ONE SEEING THE REAL SHAME IN ALL OF
THIS! THEY TEACH THAT WHO EVER PRACTICES EVIL IS NOT OF
THE FATHER BECAUSE EVIL AND GOOD DO NOT LIVE TOGETHER!
IF IT IS NOT OF THE FATHER IT IS OF SATAN! SO WHO
ARE THEY REALLY WORSHIPPING?
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
12:02:13
Comments
Fuzz: You sound just like a Mormon with the 'I'll take it
under advisement' comment. You have been called out, by some
direct and some humorous posts to defend one the most basic
tenets. So lets hear it: 144,000 as a heavenly anointed class
going to heaven, while the rest of us either die or watch
- defended without quoting a Watchtower article. Go ahead
and look it up in Society publications and find a reasonable
stream of thought that gets you from the figurative references
in Revelation to the 'present understanding' using sound biblical
references. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward
to it. - Buster
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:29
Comments
SO WHO ARE THEY WORSHIPPING: I remember back when I was getting
my indoctrination in the Franklin,MA cong. We went to the
hall with my mother, while my father never got caught up in
it. During my teens my father and I rarely discussed the teachings
- perhaps because of one exception that I remember particularly
well. I don't remember the introduction to the conversation,
but he asked me if I 'really believed that only JWs would
be saved'. I had my immediate answer ready, 'Of course, only
the Witnesses practice according to God's word.' Then asked
about his mother - did I think God would destroy people like
her? Oh I really shined that day! I can excuse myself a bit
for being a dumb 15- or 16-year-old. But I reaffirmed my statement
that God would destroy all such people. One more point, his
mother, my grandmother to whom I had never gotten close, had
died a few years earlier. I didn't know it then, but in retrospect
I think he missed her quite a bit. Here comes the part where
my JW training saved the day. I told him how fortunate it
was that his mother had died. It was fortunate she was dead
because she now has the promise of resurrection. I can't believe
such thoughts ever were in my head and spilled out of my mouth.
I now have a 16-year-old and I would be terribly hurt if she
were capable of such cold-heartedness. - Buster
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
14:19:19
Comments
The challenge of thought is to except a belief in Satan or
the evilness of human depravity. Are we the evil within or
is there an evil of an outside source? This has been asked
for centuries, is there viable proof? As far back in human
writings there has been written account of gods or angels
who come to earth to live. It was suggested by the early Jews
that we were influenced by the fallen angels, others like
the Greeks said it was the gods who influenced mankind. Is
there proof? Lets examine Satan intellectually, without the
obtuse thinking of Christians fundamentalism which pollute
the heuristics of our minds. An empirical look is needed at
researching Satan from an outside influence instead of using
the church, because in this way we have sound reasoning and
no purpose in recruiting or scaring others into our way of
thinking. *** As far as I remember, Satan's opposition to
god has been part of my Christian teaching. I've been taught
that Satan will take over my mind if I listen to the wrong
music , watching bad movies, and using the known vices of
man. Everything that was done to someone that was bad or turned
out bad, and was considered evil, was because that individual
was influenced by a being that was unseen . I heard expressions
like he or she was possessed by bad spirits of some form ,
so this is why they did what they did. Our teachings included
stories of fallen angels who temp men into doing what was
bad, even if it meant escaping certain environments that were
considered wrong, but was right for the individual. These
invisible beings present impinged on our world since the era
of Genesis, so I was taught. I think Carl Sagan said it best
when he wrote; " if we are in the company of aliens or
unseen beings why have they not revealed themselves, leaving
evidence of there presents or scientific proof for us to study? " ***
This question has allot of validity. Why not? Why is it always
left to faith of Satan and his cohorts that they do create
evil afflictions upon us? We are taught to believe that god
has a resistor, and if we are to join a Christian group we
are told to renounce our previous way of life that was evil
and resist all the devils works. So, if I were from another
faith, I must have been evil? *** Visions have been written
down about Satan and given the best of stories. Dante's story
is the best of visions of hell and his description of Satan
himself. Dante described Satan as a" towering beast with
three faces with two wings who was trapped in ice; he rebelled
against god". Today, it is no different from then, we
have all sorts who blame their thoughts on Satan , their actions,
and their hallucinations. I can truly say I have not seen
a three faced winged creature, and if I have, I probably would
be in an institution and not writing this . I believe Elaine
Pagels described Satan best in her book The Origins of Satan, "The
Christian tradition has been to demonize the opponents; to
solidify ones group by placing that either those within their
group or outside their groups as apostates or heretics, it
does unify those believing in the same beliefs without question...
They are to demonize their enemies and vindicate Jesus followers...
The figure Satan becomes, among other things, a way of characterizing
ones enemies as an embodiment of transcendent forces. " ***
I can not say that I seen Satan without feeling some apprehension.
I have seen my own organization comment evil that Satan would
be proud of. This phenomena still baffles my mind. I wonder
if I could get a great following in telling my vision, probably
not, it would be better to say it was a reflection of Christ.
I might be able tell it was his reflection off a dirty peace
of glass and make a profit. I would be within my rights to
proclaim I seen a vision or something, or could it be as Scrooge
described when he seen his vision: a potato from the morning
breakfast, a bad case of heart burn, or gas from yesterdays
dinner. I can not say. Should I consider being excised in
a church or in my room before my head spins around. Is it
like in the 1800's when men seen pink elephants while intoxicated,
today people see green men. Nothing has changed. Christian
groups are looking for the Antichrist around every corner.
Who can we believe, what group is true? Do you believe me
or would anyone place blind faith in my vision? I think not
, I probably would get the recommendation to see a Psychiatrist
or be committed in some state hospital. Yet I find it very
humorous that people drive great distances to see an image
of Christ in a cloud or off some poorly washed window. Maybe
its the arch deceiver that is creating these crying images
or apparitions? The Jewish Kabbalah suggest; "We must
constantly clarify the mind, so that it be free of the dross
of deceptive fantasies, groundless fears, bad habits, and
deficiencies". *** Humans have the tendency for great
brutality among one another. The inhumane treatment of one
another is not new, it has been dated as far back in human
history as one can find. We have some of the most heinous
acts of genocide and torture man can do to one another listed
just in the bible itself. Is this the fault of Satan? During
the middle ages cities were built as a defense against evil
men and the demons, the dark ages proves that point . Most
of all, we must not forget the inquisitions and purges by
the Christian church. The very groups representing god and
Christ done most of the evil. Are these organizations part
of Satan? Who is to say! We have fears that need to be purged
or as the Kabbalah suggest we must clarify the mind. Is Satan
a fallen angel? Are we being tested by God? The bible says
that Satan has now an earthly kingdom. If so, why has it not
been seen. Most religions except the fact it is the United
Nation or all governmental powers on earth is Satan's realm
. Should we fear these governments? If we are a part of some
universal power, I think Satan wouldn't fear revealing himself
to some lowly creature as we humans. At least someone would
have a picture of him other than Dante's Vision. If we are
part of a cosmic struggle, and gods forces are battling evil
, we have not much of a choice on what to do or if the decisions
we make are correct. How can one prove we are in the right
religion? One only need to research and find fault with all
or most Christian, Islamic, or cult religions. Elaine Pagels
says,” Satan as an evil Creature, misleading man, takes
on a hidden of little known figure in the early Jewish writings”.
She also says, “until the first century, Satan then
takes on a more prominent position of an ambitious spirit
determined to diabolically destroy mankind. We against them
has been set to determine the relation to ones own group”.
I find this empirical explanation sound and befitting modern
religion. ***It is my observation that Christians and those
of their like use evil to justify their misfortune and the
unexplained. Phenomena seems to be given a simple explanation
that it is from satanic origin and people with different views
are influenced by Satan himself because they have opposite
views. I think that man, NOT Satan, created more of the evils
we now know and understand . If Satan exist, and is tempting
mankind there would be some way of exposing his existence
instead of the guess' work by Christian fundamentalist who
say everything is evil that they don't understand. I Will
end with this thought, that I believe in god, and man deserves
better; however, I think more evil has been done in the name
of Christ and not Satan...afraid in Sacramento
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
14:34:50
Comments
Thank you for having a place were people can go for help and
comfort. I was also molested as a child,but I wasn't part of
the "organization at the time" Up until the dateline
show I was an unbaptized publisher in the west congregation
in Corpus Christi,Texas. I'm am out of there organization
forever. I got rid of all there books in my house. I am now
being persecuted for it. Again, Thank you for your website
and may God Bless You. Julie Villagomez My email is Juliej316
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
15:51:33
Comments
Hi Guys: It is me Claudine - I have been extremely depressed,
and had the flu here, the computer was broken one day and
the car the next and my birthday was yesterday - spent alone. ***
I use to find some comfort with the WTS giving me all the
answers (this is a big confession here)...I am struggling
with not being so sure about anything. When I hear the trinity
doctrine the stomach goes into knots and then I get so damn
pissed off that the WTS did not have the integrity to keep
their hands off the UN, protect the witnesses in Malawi, and
had enough love and sense to protect innocent children. I
cannot believe in hell fire or the trinity and now I can fear
that maybe I will burn in hell because I don't believe the
trinity! Hell of a thought! I have heard the trinity "explained" -
oh my, no way and no sense at all. *** I
don't feel too much in touch with God lately. I have no sure
sense of "the truth" and then no way to comfort
myself during these bad times I go thru. *** I had
a routine of scriptures that comforted me and I went to the
KH and this was some comfort. *** I feel a little
lost these days. Don't want religion but do want God - and
then when I pray I don't even know what God's name is anymore!
That goes thru my head -I apologize to God for not knowing
the correct name to use, for being so confused. I know Jehovah
will straighten me out here - just going thru some stuff.
But I was so sure before and trusted the WTS -as to their
integrity and love for the sheep. I am pissed. Thanks for
listening. *** Love Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
16:55:25
Comments
i want to weep...and help..wendy
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
17:21:46
Comments
Claudine, If it is any help, and I hope it is. It really comes
down to a few things. FAITH! Love one another as you would
yourself, LOVE the FATHER with all of your heart! and if there
are things taught to you that are wrong, have FAITH that the
FATHER will provide you with the answers! I call him the FATHER
because that is what he is! When Jesus prayed to HIM, Jesus
said basically, I have glorified your name. The only name Jesus
ever called HIM is FATHER! Jesus also said who ever believes
in me and does the will of My FATHER is also my brother, my
mother and my sister! WE ARE ALL OF THE FATHERS CHILDREN,
THE ONES WHO HAVE FAITH IN HIM! As a friend told me once, "And
the rest is details". I was asked just last night if
I prayed for my children, When I speak to my FATHER, it is
not as much asking for HIS help as much as THANKING HIM FOR
IT! FAITH, IT CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS! love bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
17:23:33
Comments
excuse the typo's, my baby was a pulling on my arm! :-) yeah
that's my story and I'm sticking to it! bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
22:21:10
Comments
Thanks Bonnielynn for the message. I have to get on track!
And being thankful has always been the place for me to start
- I haven't been appreciating as much as I usually do, but
that is the place to begin. Thank you for reminding me. Love,
CClaudine b ***
Welcome Julie! - That was very bold and brave letting them
know, that their policy isn't acceptable *** Buster
- I think one of the things that has me depressed is what
an horse's ass I have made of myself for all the insensitive,
inappropriate, arrogant things I have said to my children,
and to others that I cared about 0H WELL...as least I have
stopped doing that . ***
Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
23:48:47
Comments
Hi Claudine! HAPPY, HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY! You will remember
this one all of your life. Don't worry about all the things
you're unsure of. Know that God knows AND CARES about what
you are going through RIGHT NOW. Confusion and all. He made
you. And he LOVES you. Just as you are. Not as in, 'Well,
okay, I guess if I have to...' No, but as in, "Claudine,
my beautiful child! Finally you are coming home! I'm SO HAPPY!
I love you. Be patient. I will be standing right here with
you, for the rest of your life. You're not alone now. And
you never will be. I have SO MUCH to show you! And EVERYONE.
Trust me. And talk to me all the time. You'll see...Believe
me. And sometimes you will hear me talking back to you, too!"
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
06:35:26
Comments
To Claudine...Boy, can I ever relate to what you said above.
I've felt exactly the same way. I haven't prayed in such a
long time. I believe in God, Jesus etc, but I'm been so mixed
up in my head about the Trinity, Hellfire, as you said...and
I just get frustrated with the whole topic. When I hear sermons
at churches about the Trinity etc, my stomach turns. I start
thinking, How can all these religions believe and teach the
Trinity, but only the JW's say it's all wrong. How can so
many religions be completely wrong on these topics? I have
gotten to the point where I don't think I'll ever really know
what is true and what isn't. So many years of JW indoctrination
swarms in the back of my mind, that it all gets jumbled up
and I just have to start thinking about something else. Happy
Belated Birthday! :-) Hang in there girl. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
08:04:13
Comments
... "I
the Lord(Jehovah) SEARCH the HEART and examine the MIND, to
reward a man according to his conduct, ACCORDING TO WHAT HIS
DEEDS deserve." Jeremiah 17:10 ... "Then
all the churches will know the *I am he* who SEARCHES HEARTS
and MINDS, and I will repay each of you ACCORDING TO YOUR
DEEDS. Revelation 2:23(Jesus) ...
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
09:53:26
Comments
"
Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization
of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential
for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The
Watchtower October 1, 1967 p. 591 (Talk about loaded sentences.
It is these type of incredible and dangerous claims that make
an organization shy about admitting that mistakes can happen.)(Is
the organization "essential for life"? Not as far
as the bible is concerned.)
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:15:07
Comments
To Claudine, Linda Thoman (also SLC) ...Hi, bjc here.
I have following your conversation about "trinity" and "hellfire" teachings
in the churches. And how the JWs did not teach this falsehood.
I too abhor such teachings too. *** I have a little information
that I would like to share on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses
and their unique views on "trinity", "hellfire" doctrines,
also what significance these teachings hold with God and so
on. I think information might shed some light on these difficult
subjects, and the significance of these teachings have in
God's eyes in identifying God's Name People today, Israel
of today. (Although these teachings by themselves are NOT
the only identifier of Israel of our times. There is more.) ***
The information I have posted below is taken from the book "The
Report" written by a JW back in 1994, who left the organization
because of so much wrongdoing on the part of the WTS. The
author does see the JWs as a people adrift, coming ever so
close to outright worship of the WTS Headquarters in rank
apostasy and idolatry. In his book, he addresses these concerns
and others and cites bible prophecy to prove his contention.
The article is lengthy, so I will print it out in three (3)
part sections for your perusal. Enjoy! *** bjc2read@yahoo.com
*** PART I "The Report" Volume
I pages 41-63 *** --- THE REPORT book --- ***
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEASURED IN THE LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURES ***
FACT: The Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation and people, are
the only organized people on the face of the earth who actually
carry God's Name (Jehovah) upon themselves. In fact, the teachings
listed on the accompanying chart (page 64) are indeed teachings
of the Jehovah's Witnesses. However, these merely represent
fundamental truths, many of which, have been known throughout
the centuries. No, these fundamental truths are not the exclusive
knowledge of the Jehovah's Witnesses. No, not at all! Therefore,
we ask the all-important question, namely: Does possessing
these fundamental truths, by themselves, really prove that
the Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization today are the True
Religion of our time? No! In stead, what the Jehovah's Witnesses
presently possess as a nation in the form of Bible knowledge
and understanding, under the tutorship and direction of the
Watchtower Society, does not measure up to the lofty Biblical
description of true religion in it's complete sense. They
best resemble the Jewish nation, under the tutorship of the
Pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus' day! They have a "FRAMEWORK
OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH", as Paul described. (See
Romans 2:20.) You may remember that it was mentioned earlier
in "The Report", the article God's Name People and
the Framework of the Truth, the following in reference to
Ancient Israel and their privilege of carrying God's Personal
Name upon themselves: " ... It was the placing of this
particular Name upon the Jewish nation that brought special "blessings" upon
them. In fact, it was the `placing of His Name upon' ancient
Israel, in itself, that made them a special people for His
possession. (See Numbers 6:27.) The placing of God's Personal
Name upon the Jewish nation proved to be the single most outstanding
characteristic that identified them as His people, His inheritance,
it identified them as being `Israel.' " There can be
no question but that the privilege of being "called by
God's Name" in itself made the Jewish nation, God's Name
people. No people, except the 1st century congregation of
Christians, were so privileged to be `called by God's Personal
Name,' at least up until the year of 1931. "1931, you
say...what happened in 1931?" Well, if you are one of
Jehovah's Witnesses you may remember precisely what occurred
in the year of 1931. PLEASE NOTE: It was in the year of 1931,
that the International Bible Students then took the name upon
themselves of Jehovah's Witnesses. Therefore, it is was this
most important singular act, that is of placing this distinct
Name — God's own Personal Name upon themselves, that
actually made this people become "Israel" - modern-day "Israel" of
our times. Think about it. With the appearance of the October
15th issue of the Watchtower Magazine, we find the first appearance
of the Name "Jehovah" upon the cover of this particular
magazine. The name itself had been resolutely adopted by a
large assembly of International Bible Students, and the current
President of the International Bible Students, in the previous
summer of 1931 at a convention at Columbus, Ohio. Also, we
notice that this particular issue of the Watchtower Magazine,
October 15, 1931 in an iconoclastic fashion, removed the symbol
of the "cross" from the front cover of it for the
first time. The years to follow 1931 would give clear evidence
that Jehovah's Witnesses had indeed become modern-day "Israel" of
Bible prophecy, whether the prophecy be favorable or unfavorable.
Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, in the year of 1931, entered
a "covenant" with Jehovah God, just as the ancient
Israelite nation did at Mount Sinai. The "covenant" or
contract entered into was in the form of a resolution, adopted
by the assembly of International Bible Students congregated
at Columbus, Ohio, during the dates of July 24-30, 1931. This
point is highlighted for us in the publication, Jehovah's
Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, pg. 156, par.
#2 which says: "THAT, having been bought with the precious
blood of Jesus Christ our Lord and Redeemer, justified and
begotten by Jehovah God and called to his kingdom, we unhesitatingly
declare our entire allegiance and devotion to Jehovah God
and his kingdom; that we are servants of Jehovah God commissioned
to do a work in his name, and, in obedience to his commandment,
to deliver the testimony of Jesus Christ, and to make known
to the people that Jehovah is the true and Almighty God; therefore
we joyfully embrace and take the name which the mouth of the
Lord God has named, and we desire to be known as and called
by the name, to wit, Jehovah's Witnesses. — Isa. 43:10-12" And
so, we can clearly see that the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses
had indeed, entered a "covenant" or contract to
carry the personal Name of God. They had sworn their allegiance
and obedience to this same God, the God of Jacob, by way of
a public declaration and resolution. They had now taken upon
themselves the responsibility that came with becoming, modern-day "Israel," of
our times. And of course, Jehovah would himself, be obligated
to hold them to this sworn oath of responsibility. IDENTIFYING
MODERN-DAY JERUSALEM AND ISRAEL The Bible's fundamental or
basic truths, as revealed in the Law Covenant given Moses,
can be traced down from the nation of Israel, down through
the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day
and time. Yes, these basic "truths" about God have
survived for thousands of years! And how have these basic
truths survived, particularly through the years since the
1st century congregation? Well, we find upon examination of
the historical facts, that these fundamental truths have been
maintained by small Christian groups down through the years,
since the 1st century congregation of Christians. These small
Christian groups, acting as "custodians of truth," formed
little clusters, and were known by various names, down through
the centuries. These little groups kept certain characteristics,
certain similarities, that made them appear very much like
ancient Israel, as well as the first century congregation,
in their form of worship and have maintained a "thread
of truth" right down till our day. Take for example,
the Ten Commandments. The first and second commandments in
particular, were often visible within the ranks of small Christian
groups, down through the centuries. (Exodus 20:3,4; Deut.
6:4) These same characteristics can actually serve, in our
day and time, to identify: Modern-day Israel, or Jerusalem
of our times, Jehovah's Witnesses. The table below highlights
these characteristics. See if you, the reader, can pick out
the similarities between "Israel" of old, and modern-day "Israel" spoken
of in Bible prophecy — Jehovah's Witnesses. Remember,
it is the "framework of Truth" that differentiates
them from all other religions upon the face of the earth today.
(Romans 2:20) The following characteristics distinguish them
as modern-day Israel. They are: Ancient Israel's Key Characteristics:
1) Called by God's Personal Name 2) Mono-theistic (one God
concept) 3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship) Similarities
with, Jehovah's Witnesses as "Israel" who are also:
1) Called by God's Personal Name 2) Mono-theistic (non-trinitarian)
3) Iconoclastic (against images) We also cannot help but notice,
that the Jehovah's Witnesses have become known, the world
over, for their relentless attacks upon the doctrine of the
great main-line religions of our time. And this is much to
their credit, make no mistake about that. Based upon the foregoing,
we notice that the Jehovah's Witnesses have scripturally demonstrated
the church's failure in: (a) bringing honor to God's Personal
Name, Jehovah (b) propounding the error and blasphemy of the
trinity doctrine (c) propounding the error and blasphemy of
eternal torment in Hellfire (d) the ungodly promotion of images
in worship such as the cross. Nevertheless, these beliefs
mentioned above, which are presently held by Jehovah's Witnesses,
are actually for the most part, consistent with the beliefs
of a group of 12th century Christians called the "Albigensians." The
following is a brief description taken from the publication,
The Story of Civilization Volume 4, The Age of Faith (pg.
771, 772), about the "Albigensians" and their beliefs: "...Opponents
describe the Albigensians as rejecting the sacraments, the Mass,
the veneration of images, the Trinity ... They made the Sermon
on the Mount the essence of their ethics. They were taught
to love their enemies, to care for the sick and the poor,
never to swear, always to keep the peace, force was never
moral, even against infidels, ... one should quietly trust
that in the end God would triumph over evil, without using
evil means." The historical source also tells us of other
valuable points such as among the "Albigensians," "There
was no hell or purgatory in their theology." Further,
the same source states that this particular group of Christians: " ...
denied that the [Catholic] Church was the Church of Christ;
St. Peter had never come to Rome, had never founded the papacy;
the popes were successors to the emperors, not the apostles.
Christ had no place to lay His head, but the pope lived in
a palace...these lordly archbishops and bishops (of the Catholic
church), these worldly priests, these fat monks, were the
Pharisees of old returned to life! The Roman Church, they
were sure, was the `Whore of Babylon,' the clergy were a Synagogue
of Satan, the pope was Antichrist." And this same source
tells us that the group disdained the Roman Catholic Church's: "...
confession, holy water, the cross; they called the churches
`dens of thieves,' and Catholic priests seemed to them `traitors,
liars, and hypocrites.'" Again, the facts according to
the source: "The Story of Civilization," the "Albigensians," 1)
disbelieved the trinity 2) were against giving veneration
to images 3) did not believe in hellfire nor purgatory 4)
were taught to love their enemies, keep the peace at all cost
5) taught that the Catholic Church was the "Whore of
Babylon." 6) taught the Clergy was the Synagogue of Satan.
7) disdained "holy water" and "confession" 8)
were totally against the "cross" 9) called the church
a "den of thieves," and 10) called the Catholic
priests "traitors," "liars," and "hypocrites." Now,
we ask: Among religions today, which one does this sound most
like? You know the answer, is that not so? If you have spent
anytime studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses or if
you are yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you indeed, know
the answer. There can be no question but that there is a distinct
and clear similarity in the religious convictions with this
particular group, and the beliefs and convictions of Jehovah's
Witnesses today. No, we are not trying to say that these early
groups had the exact same beliefs on every single doctrine.
We realize that during the years following the demise of the
1st century congregation, under the direction of the apostles,
many superstitions and false beliefs surfaced among professed
Christians. No doubt, it was a great struggle for these small
groups to maintain any standard of faith in the face of the
overwhelming odds against them. But the point we are making
is that their beliefs are quite similar, if one would take
the time to analyze the evidence. Therefore, the evidence
proves that many fundamental teachings that Jehovah's Witnesses
presently believe, did not actually originate with Charles
Taze Russell as some believe, but were beliefs previously
held by Christian groups such as the Arians, Waldenses, Lollards,
Albigensians, Annabaptists, early Unitarians and numerous
other groups of Christians for centuries. Yes, there is a
common thread of truth that has been maintained down throughout
the years since Jesus. But remember, these truths only represent
the "framework of Truth." However, the great "sacred
secrets" or "mysteries" [Greek: mysterions]
of the Bible would continue to be held in secret until the "time
of the end." (Daniel 12:4,9) To be sure, as Jesus said
at John 16:13, the day would come when the following would
be true: "However, when that one arrives, the spirit
of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he
will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears
he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming." Yes,
God's people could one day look forward to the time when the "spirit
of truth" would "guide them" into "all" of
the "truth" — beyond simply the "framework
of truth," but "all" of the "truth." THE "CHILD-LEADER" FOR
THE NATION OF ISRAEL Paul described the level of "truth" possessed
by the Jewish nation during his day by saying: "If, now,
you are a Jew in name and are resting upon law and taking
pride in God, and you know his will and approve of things
that are excellent because you are orally instructed out of
the Law; and you are persuaded that you are a guide of the
blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of the unreasonable
ones, a teacher of babes, and having the framework of the
knowledge and of the truth in the Law." Yes, Paul states
that even though the Jewish people were "persuaded," (no
doubt by their leaders) that they were provided by God as
a "guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness,
a corrector of unreasonable ones, teachers of babes," — what
they merely possessed was only a "framework" or
superstructure of "knowledge" and "truth," which
was based upon the "Law covenant" handed down by
Moses. No, the Jewish nation did not have the complete picture.
The "Law" was to merely act as a "tutor," until
the Christ arrived. (Galatians 3:24) The Greek word Paul employs
for "framework" is mor'pho-sin which literally means
a "form" or outline of something. Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance describes the word as meaning a "formation," or "appearance" or "semblance" of
something. Vines Expository of New Testament Words states
that the word morphosis means: "a form or outline, denotes
... an image or impress, an outward semblance of knowledge
of the truth." And again, what had given this "form," "outline" or "outward
semblance of knowledge of the truth" to the Jewish nation?
Paul again answers by saying it was the "Law" of
Moses, as the Jews understood it. Let's notice what Paul said
about it at Galatians 3:24 which says: "Consequently
the Law has become our tutor [Greek: pedagogue] leading to
Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith." We
notice from what Paul states here that the "Law" given
by Moses, actually became a "tutor" or literally
a "child-leader" for the nation. Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance describes the Greek word for "tutor" [pedagogue]
as meaning: "a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office
it was to take the children to school." Yes, the "tutor's" primary
function was to simply "take the children to school," and
that is all. No, he was not the primary instructor of the
children at all. Vines Expository makes additional comments
on this word by saying: "...the idea of instruction is
absent. In this and allied words the idea is that of training,
discipline, not of impartation of knowledge. The paidagogos
was not the instructor of the child; he exercised a general
supervision over him and was responsible for his moral and
physical well-being. Thus understood, paidagogos is appropriately
used with `kept in ward' and `shut up,' whereas, to understand
it as equivalent to `teacher,' introduces an idea entirely
foreign to the passage..." Therefore, if by chance, the
national leaders got carried away somehow, and begin to feel
that they had all the instruction they needed to teach the
people, the results would be disastrous. Further, if the religious
leaders began to feel as if they themselves should be the
final word on all religious matters, they would have gotten
far away from their assignment of using the "law" as
a "child-leader," or "tutor" for the nation
until the Messiah came. Certainly, the religious leaders would
have gone far off the track if they began to give too much
credence to their particular understanding and interpretation
of what the "Law" Covenant really meant for the
Jewish nation, before the promised Messiah arrived on the
scene. And of course, this is precisely what happened to the
Jewish nation whose leaders began to think of themselves as
having more than a mere "framework of knowledge of truth." According
to Paul, what the Jewish nation actually possessed was simply
enough to `take them to school,' but since Jesus Christ was
the actual "teacher," or "instructor," his
teachings were much more advanced, accurate, and to the point,
than what people of his day had ever experienced. So, when
Jesus came to the nation of Israel, what did he find? Did
he not find the nation being led by an unscriptural council
of 71 men called the "Sanhedrin." Yes, that's exactly
what he found. The "Sanhedrin" was totally, an unscriptural
arrangement, nowhere to be found in the "Law" at
all. The Sanhedrin was made up of "Sadducees," "Pharisees" and "scribes," and
there can be no question that among them there existed a serious
lack of "knowledge" since the Bible tells us that
it was these leaders who led the way in ultimately rejecting
Christ's teachings. It was primarily these individuals who
by their leadership caused the nation to lose their relationship
with Jehovah God, was it not? The Sanhedrin was presided over
by the Sadducee High Priest Caiaphas, and the Bible tells
us this revealing information about the Sadducees at Acts
23:8: "For Sadducees say there is neither resurrection
nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees publicly declare them
all." No, the Sadducees did not believe in God's power
of "resurrection," of "angels," nor of "spirit." This
was because the Sadducees did not believe any part of the
Hebrew text but the writings of Moses, the first five books
of the Bible. Think of the implications of what this means.
This would mean that the entire Jewish nation was led in worship
by a High Priest who did not have faith in the holy writings
of Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel. No, he did not believe
in the Bible's accounts of Elijah and Elisha's resurrection
of the dead. And yet, he was the spiritual leader of the nation
when Jesus arrived on the scene. And were the Pharisees any
better? No, Josephus, the Jewish historian who at one time
described himself as a Pharisee, according to Harper's Bible
Dictionary reports: "They [Pharisees] believed that the
soul survives death and is punished or rewarded with another
life." — pg. 783 Clearly, the Pharisees were influenced
by false pagan teachings of Greek philosophers, prevalent
during such time. And yet, this is what they believed. This
is what they taught. There can be no question but that the
nation of Israel, under the leadership of the Sadducees and
Pharisees, had strayed a long way away from the "truth," as
we know it today. However, we remember, Paul states at Romans
2:20, the nation still had the "Law," the "tutor," the "child-leader" that
was to assist them, that was to lead them to the Christ. Yes,
they had the "semblance," the "outline," the "framework
of the knowledge of the truth." That's what they had.
And that was enough or sufficient from Jehovah's standpoint,
to bring them as a nation, to the Christ, their final instructor.
Therefore, just as the Jewish nation had the teachings of
the "Law" covenant that would act as a "tutor" leading
to the Christ, so also the "framework of truth" down
through the centuries would also act as a "tutor," "child-leader," until
God's time to reveal the "sacred secrets" of the
Bible. (Galatians 3:24) Remember, these are only the ABC's
of religious truth, you might say. The Jehovah's Witnesses
revived many of these teachings during the time of C.T. Russell
in the early 1870's, but have progressed no farther. Nevertheless,
these basic truths have served to make the Witnesses as a
people separate, distinct, different from all the other forms
of worship on earth today. These truths, coupled with being "called
by God's Name," really make them Modern-day "ISRAEL." *** End
of Part I -- "The Report" *** EMC Publications
PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com
*** bjc ***
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:22:13
Comments
To: Claudine, Linda Thoman, (& SLC) *** "The Report" part
II - pages 41-63 *** PROPHECY — FAR BEYOND
FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS *** However, many of their present
and supposedly more advanced doctrinal beliefs, strictly formulated
by the Watchtower Society on the more deeper matters of prophecy,
are incorrect and cannot be Biblically substantiated. And
this in turn, automatically makes for an elementary education
of the scripture for the rank and file Jehovah's Witness.
In our examination of the Watchtower Society's teachings,
we stress prophecy here, since the average Jehovah's Witness,
due to the Society's teaching, sees all unfavorable prophecy
pertaining to "Israel" or "Jerusalem" as
applying to the churches of Christendom and/or pagandom. Let's
notice this comment from the publication Insight On the Scriptures
under the subject of "Unfaithful Jerusalem." It
states: "Since much that is said concerning Jerusalem
in the Scriptures is in condemnation of her, it is clear that
only when faithful did Jerusalem symbolize Jehovah's heavenly
organization and, at times, the true Christian congregation,
`the Israel of God.' (Ga 6:16) When unfaithful, it was pictured
as a prostitute and an adulterous woman; it became like the
pagan Amorites and Hittites that once controlled the city.
(Eze 16:3, 15, 30-42) As such, it could only represent apostates,
those following a `prostitute' course of infidelity to the
God whose name they claim to bear. — Jas 4:4" Now,
let's pay close attention to the main point of their explanation.
It says: "It can thus be seen that `Jerusalem' is used
in a multiple sense, and the context must in each case be
considered to gain correct understanding." — Vol.
II. pg. 49 CHECKING THE CONTEXT? And so, the Watchtower
Society says that we can determine whom "Jerusalem" represents
by the surrounding context of scriptures. However, in the
case of the scriptural example they cited as proof, namely
Eze 16:3, 15, 30-42, did the Watchtower Society themselves
check the context here? Evidently they didn't because notice
what verses 59-62 of the same chapter says about the `prostituting,
adulterous woman:' "For this is what the Lord Jehovah
has said, `I also must do with you just as you have done,
because you despised the oath in breaking [my] covenant. And
I, I myself, must remember my covenant with you in the days
of your youth, and I must establish for you an indefinitely
lasting covenant... And you will certainly remember your ways
and feel humiliated ... And I, I myself , will establish my
covenant with you; and you will have to know that I am Jehovah,
in order that you may remember and actually be ashamed and
you may no more come to have any reason to open [your] mouth
because of your humiliation, when I make an atonement for
you for all that you have done,' is the utterance of the Lord
Jehovah." Did you notice that the same `adulterous, prostitute
woman' is now spoken of as being given an "indefinitely
lasting covenant?" And did you also notice that the sins
of this same `Hittite, Amorite-like woman' is now being `atoned'
for by Jehovah? And further, once she has been `atoned' for,
she can now regain her good standing with Jehovah, the kind
of standing she had with Him in the beginning. As Jehovah
said: "I must remember my covenant with you in the days
of your youth." Clearly, this "adulterous woman" is
now being RESTORED to Jehovah's favor! That point is crystal
clear, isn't it? And so we can see that if an individual were
to do exactly as suggested by the Society he he would find
that the same "woman" spoken of as an "adulterous," "Hittite," and "Amorite," is
also the same "woman" that is to be `atoned for'
and subsequently receives an "indefinitely lasting covenant." Now,
does that sound like the religions of Pagandom and/or Christendom
to you? Again, let's keep in mind what the Society actually
said was their definition as to how one can `correctly understand'
the verses in question. Yes, we want to be able to correctly
identify modern-day "Jerusalem" in these prophecies,
right? The Watchtower Society says: If it's good, then "Jerusalem" [or
Israel] represents God's people. And, if the context indicates
bad, it merely represents false worshippers, "apostates," or "prostitute" "pagan
nations" — in other words, Christendom and/or Pagandom.
However, as you have just observed, what do we conclude if
the context of prophecy shows both good and bad for the same
said "Jerusalem" [or Israel]? Remember, in many,
many passages, if we really examine the entire context of
the verses considered, we see that the same "Jerusalem" that
is spoken of in an unfavorable light, is later spoken of as
having received "restoration" by the hand of God!
Now, how do we explain that? Also, many prophecies demonstrate
that the same "Jerusalem" [or Israel] who previously
had a good standing before Him, later embark upon an unrepentant
course of sin and are the very ones that ultimately bring
on an estranged relationship with God, and finally become
the recipients of severe discipline from His hand! And finally,
it is from this "Lo-ammi" or disowned state, that
they [Israel] have to be "restored." (Hosea 1:8,
9) Think about it. Let's reason upon this: It would certainly
make more sense to believe that these prophecies could only
apply to one "Jerusalem," one people, Jehovah's
Witnesses — the true "Israel of God." Really,
the only people, who have the real capacity to `leave the
Holy Covenant' are the people who are in the "Holy Covenant" with
Him, right? (Daniel 11:30) And Jehovah's Witnesses say that
they are the only people, truly, in the "New Covenant" with
Jehovah, right? For remember, Christendom is not in any "Holy
Covenant" with Jehovah God whatsoever, are they? Now,
doesn't that make more sense, when you really, really think
about it. What is more, the "Israel" in question
mentioned in prophecy could only represent, and we repeat
only represent, the "Israel of God" that has been "covenanted" to
Him in marriage. (See Isaiah 54:5-8.) Furthermore, contrary
to what the Watchtower Society says, Christendom has never "claimed
to bear" God's Personal Name, Jehovah. They completely
avoid the use of His Name today, as they have for centuries!
Therefore, Christendom could not in any way, shape or form
fit the Biblical description of "Israel," since
they are: (a) trinitarian, (b) lovers of icon or image worship,
and (c) quite simply HATE the Personal Name of God, Jehovah.
Therefore, how could Christendom, or any religion of pagandom
really represent the "Israel of God," spoken of
prophetically in scripture. That would simply be an IMPOSSIBILITY.
Think about it. To further this thought, let's take another
excellent example in Isaiah 2:1-9. The Jehovah's Witnesses
have all been taught that verses 1-4 have application upon
themselves, in their present state of increase, in our day
and time. But have you ever read the remaining 5 verses in
context. Let's notice these: "O men of the house of Jacob,
come and let us walk in the light of Jehovah." "For
you have forsaken your people, the house of Jacob. For they
have become full of what is from the East, and they are practicers
of magic like the Philistines, and with the children of foreigners
they abound. And their land is filled with silver and gold,
and there is no limit to their treasures. And their land is
filled with horses, and there is no limit to their chariots.
And their land is filled with worthless gods. To the work
of one's hands they bow down, to that which one's fingers
have made. And earthling man bows down, and man becomes low,
and you cannot possibly pardon them." Now keep in mind,
that the Watchtower Society has never explained the remaining
five verses in their publications, namely verses 5 - 9, which
shows us that the same "Jacob" [or Israel], who
in verses 1-4 has great increase and people streaming to Jehovah's
Mountain, in these verses are spoken of as being polluted,
and completely unclean before Jehovah in these same "last
days." Now, how could "Israel" picture God's
people [Jehovah's Witnesses] in the first 4 verses, and someone
else [like Christendom] in the remaining 5 verses? And what's
more, the prophecy shows that those who refuse the invitation
to `come and walk in the light,' away from such a bad environment,
will ultimately lose his favor totally! And so we can see
that the Jehovah's Witnesses as a people will be faced with
a grave situation in the very near future, according to PROPHECY!
Think about it. However, keep in mind, that this is not to
suggest that there are no discerning ones among them. To the
contrary, no doubt, there may be many who are searching the
scriptures because they have many, many questions concerning
what is being taught them by the Watchtower Society. Neither,
is this said to imply that there are none who are sincere
among them either. No, because prophecy clearly indicates
that many from among the family of Jehovah's Witnesses will
prevail in the end. Daniel 11:32-35 clearly indicates this
fact! No, but what we are saying is that, the Jehovah's Witnesses
as a whole, have not matured as a people or nation, spiritually
speaking, the same as the Jewish nation is Jesus' day. Therefore,
they correspond perfectly, in almost every detail and way,
to the Jewish nation of Jesus' day under the Pharisees and
Sadducees. And by so corresponding, they fulfill many, many
prophecies, spoken of in the Prophetic books of the Bible
concerning "Israel," God's people of our time. And
the essay or dissertation called: "THE REPORT" has
been written to demonstrate such fulfillment among Jehovah's
Witnesses of our time. — Hebrews 6:1,2; Matthew 9:36;
Ezekiel 21:7 This same lack of spiritual progress will ultimately
cause them to fail, again according to prophecy, as a light-bearing
organization according to the standard set by Jesus Christ
himself, our exemplar. And this will be despite the fact that
they now carry the Name of God, Jehovah, upon themselves.
Remember: it is this Name that has set them apart from all
other religions. And, on the other hand, it is this same Name
that carries with it grave responsibilities as we have seen.
Yes, Jehovah's people must live up to that Name! — See
Deuteronomy 28:58-62. "COMMANDMENTS OF MEN" STUMBLES
NATION Well, remember Jesus told the Pharisees what was really
wrong with their worship by saying as recorded at Matthew
15:9: "It is in vain that they worship me [Jehovah] because
they teach as doctrines the COMMANDMENT OF MEN." Did
you notice that the teaching of `commandments of men' could
result in the worship of the entire nation being subsequently
aborted, rendered "in vain," even? Yes, the Jewish
leaders had rendered the people's worship in "vain" because
of teaching "commandments of men." This is very
displeasing to Jehovah God. These "teachings of men" are
viewed by Jehovah as "leaven" that corrupts the
entire nation. (Matthew 16:12; 1 Corinthians 5:6) By teaching
the "commandments of men," the Pharisees could control
the people and make them think what they wanted them to think.
The people were thus following the "commandments of men" and
not the commandments of God, involving themselves in IDOLATRY,
creature worship even, which is very offensive to Jehovah.
And we know that Jehovah will not tolerate, nor except such
worship, even if it is given in His name! The same thing is
happening today among the Jehovah's Witnesses under the direction
of the Watchtower Society as teachers. Think about it. Therefore,
remember, "You must not have any god before my face." (Exodus
20:3) Also: "I will not share my glory with anyone." — Isaiah
42:8. Oh, the Watchtower Society projects the image that they
understand completely, that is, the prophecies of the Bible,
even in detail. But the facts reveal, they do not and are
actually very confused in their teachings and doctrines on
the "deeper things of God." (1 Cor. 2:10) Furthermore,
some Jehovah's Witnesses have become enthusiastic advocates
of the Watchtower Society — religious fanatics, if you
will, like Paul was in the beginning, and may not even be
aware of it. These extremists, are in fact, actually following
the teachings or "commandments of men" — The
Watchtower Society, not God's Word on all matters. Many of
these are "elders" in the congregation. (Mark 7:7,8)
In more recent years, it has been noticed, that newer policies
and procedures have been added, that we believe, will produce
in the end, a cult of MINDLESS FOLLOWERS who operate and carry
out their "sacred service" independent of inspired
thought from God's Word the Bible! These individuals may become
dangerous in the end, again, according to prophecy. (See Matthew
24:9-12; John 16:2.) Remember, all of this has been prophesied
in scripture. Hard to believe? Well, all one has to do is
make a close examination of the teachings and policies of
the Jehovah's Witnesses and this startling fact will become
quite clear. The dissertation called "THE REPORT",
based upon Ezekiel 21:7, is designed to reveal these facts. *** End
of Part II "The Report" Volume I *** EMC Publications
PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com
*** bjc ***
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:24:17
Comments
To Claundine, Linda Thoman (& SLC) *** Part III. -- "The
Report" pgs 41-63 *** DISTRESS FOR
THE NATION FORETOLD *** Jeremiah 30:7 foretold great "distress" for
God's Name people in the last days by saying: "Alas!
For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like
it, and it is the time of distress for Jacob. But he will
be saved even out of it." — New World Translation
Yes, as mentioned earlier, Bible prophecy indicates that the
Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation will be decimated of population,
(like the Jewish nation), with only a remnant left of the
nation to continue true worship because of sin and transgression
against Jehovah's Law! Yes, and because of such sin, a distinct
separation will occur in the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Yes, the "stick of Judah" will separate from the "stick
of Joseph." And yet, after a period of discipline, they
will indeed, come back together again. Please carefully consider
the following scriptural citations and these points will become
quite visible: 1) Isaiah 11:12, 13 2) Ezekiel 37:15-23 3)
Hosea 1:11 4) Zechariah 11:14 5) Jeremiah 30:1-3 However,
during the interim of the same said separation, Jehovah will
strike His people in the form of "severe" discipline.
And then, after severe "trampling" as the scriptures
indicate, this discipline is to be followed by intense light
of "understanding" from Jehovah God concerning their
transgressions against Him. Yes, they will then come to "understand" that
`all the prophets' pointed forward to this day of discipline
for the Christian congregation. — Revelation 12:6,14;
Acts 3:21 Isaiah 30:26 puts it this way by saying: "And
the light of the full moon must become as the light of the
glowing [sun]; and the very light of the glowing [sun] will
become seven times as much, like the light of seven days,
in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people
and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke
BY HIM." Also Jeremiah 23:19,20 which says: "Look!
a windstorm of Jehovah, rage itself, has gone forth, an onward-sweeping
tempest. Upon the head of the wicked ones it will whirl. The
burning anger of Jehovah will not turn back until he will
have carried out and until he will have made the ideas of
his heart come true. In the final part of the days you people
[Israel] will give your consideration to it with understanding. — See
also Jeremiah 30:23, 24. Make no mistake, Jehovah is going
to discipline His people "Israel" (Jehovah's Witnesses
as a nation) — in the most "severe" way. And
yet, happily in the end, a core of true worshippers taken
from the Jehovah's Witnesses will be eventually made into
a "strong nation" with the help and assistance of
others, who are onlookers of these Biblical events of the
future. Hard to believe? Again, let's notice what Micah
4:6,7 prophetically says of the future for God's people: "In
that day, says the LORD [JEHOVAH], I will assemble the lame
and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom
I have afflicted. The lame I will make the remnant, and those
who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD [JEHOVAH]
will reign over them in Mount Zion now and forevermore." — Oxford
Annotated Bible EXILE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES — WHEN?
Now, we may remember that the Watchtower Society has taught
for some time that first Jesus Christ began his reign over
God's people in 1914 and then, Jehovah God allowed His people,
Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation, to go off into in "exile," that
is into "Babylon" during the years of 1918-19. (See
July 1 Watchtower 1982 pg. 24, 25.) However, as you have just
read in the above scripture, the exile of God's people actually
comes BEFORE Jehovah begins His reign over His people. Yes,
before His glorious reign. And that "reign" is to
last "forevermore," or as the New World Translation
says: till "time indefinite." Yes, Jehovah's rule
over His people will never cease, but it comes only after
His people, Jehovah's Witnesses, first go off into exile,
away from Jehovah's face. That's what the scriptures indicate.
Therefore, we can see that the Watchtower Society has reversed
the order of events. Yes, they have placed Christ coming into
Kingdom power in the year of 1914, and the exile of his people
coming after that. Whereas, the scripture clearly states that
the exile precedes Jehovah God's reign (in the hands of Jesus)
over his people, the Watchtower Society has reversed these
events to accommodate their doctrine of 1914. Their understanding
on this matter is clearly incorrect, and Micah 4:6,7 proves
it. Also, Isaiah 49:19-21 speaks prophetically of God's people
after being disciplined: "Though you were ruined and
made desolate and your land laid waste, now you will be too
small for your people, and those who devoured you will be
far away. The children born during your bereavement will yet
say in your hearing, `this place is too small for us;' Then
you will say in your heart, `Who bore me these? I was bereaved
and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up?
I was left all alone, but these — where have they come
from?'" — New International Version; See also Isaiah
65:1; Romans 11:25, 26. Now this really brings us to the heart
of our position as EMC Publications. This point brings us
full circle since it tells the entire story about Jehovah's
Witnesses and their future destiny under the direction of
the Watchtower Society. For years now our message as stated
has been the following: "Jehovah's Witnesses, as modern-day
`Israel' — destined to fall and be restored." Yes,
we believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are destined to "fall," under
the leadership of the Watchtower Society, and yet, they will
later be regrouped, "restored," according to Bible
prophecy. The wickedness we see prevalent today among the
nation of Jehovah's Witnesses can no doubt be largely attributed
to the leadership of the organization, the Watchtower Society.
Therefore, rather than completely destroy the entire nation
of Jehovah's Witnesses, Jehovah chooses to "discipline" the
nation, or people, to bring a "remnant" to their
senses. However, we feel, the Watchtower Society and it's
Governing Body, as a corporate structure, will receive a very,
special punishment — utter destruction! That too will
be explained in detail, scripturally, in "THE REPORT" document.
Although Jehovah God could exercise his Almighty power to
destroy the entire nation of Jehovah's Witnesses from the
face of the earth with one swipe according to Malachi 4:5,
6 — nevertheless, in His mercy, and "loyalty" to
His promises, His Name and "covenant" with them,
He chooses to exercise certain provisions within His contract
with the nation, much like the ones Solomon spoke of as found
at 1 Kings 8:46-50 which says: "In case they [Israel]
sin against you [Jehovah] (for there is no man that does not
sin), and you have to be incensed at them and abandon them
to the enemy, and their captors actually carry them off captive
to the land of the enemy distant or nearby; and they indeed
come to their senses [`be think themselves' KJV] in the land
where then have been carried off captive, and they actually
return and make request to you for favor in the land of their
captors, saying, `We have sinned and erred, we have acted
wickedly'; and they indeed return to you with all their heart
and with all their soul in the land of their enemies who carried
them off captive, and they indeed pray to you in the direction
of their land that you gave to their forefathers, the city
that you have chosen and the house that I have built to your
name; you must also hear from the heavens, your established
place of dwelling, their prayer and their request for favor,
and you must execute judgment for them, and you must forgive
your people who had sinned against you and all their transgressions
with which they transgressed against you..." Amazingly,
this information you have just read, is just as applicable
to modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses, as it was for the nation
of Israel, thousands of years ago. And, believe it or not,
scriptural prophecies such as Micah 4:6, 7 and Isaiah 30:26
and Jeremiah 23:20 are prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled!
Yes, they remain to be fulfilled in the near future, and will
surely be fulfilled upon modern-day Israel, God's Name people,
the Jehovah's Witnesses. Think about it. But, you may be saying: "Why
should they (the Jehovah's Witnesses) be disciplined so severely?" Again,
it is because they, like the Jewish Nation, are in a covenant
relationship with Jehovah God. Yes, the Jehovah's Witnesses
as a nation have dedicated their lives, no not to Jesus Christ,
the Son of God — but to JEHOVAH, the Great God of Jacob,
and therefore must be held accountable to that solemn oath
the same as the Jewish nation was held to the one made at
Mt. Sinai. (See Exodus 19:7,8) The Bible is clear: `What you
vow, pay to God, for he has no pleasure in fools. It is better
not to vow, than vow and do not pay.'— Ecclesiastes
5:4-6 The Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation, have made such
a vow. They have made a dedication before Jehovah and are
therefore in a "covenant" with Him. They must either
fulfill the terms of that agreement or pay for their disobedience.
But you must be saying, "what disobedience?" "How
are they acting disobediently?" Well, again, "THE
REPORT" will answer these questions. But suffice it to
say for now, that the Jehovah's Witnesses, as an organization,
have been prophesied about many times in the Bible. Yes, they
are the modern-day Jews of our time! Remember, the Israelites
of Isaiah's day were actually "Jehovah's Witnesses" as
Isaiah 43:10 makes plain. Yes, these people were known by
God's personal name. The people today, who bear that name,
that is, the personal name of God [Jehovah], can be easily
identified by that Name. They are the Jehovah's Witnesses,
and there is huge responsibility in carrying that Name. Yes,
they correspond to the "city," modern-day "Jerusalem," identified
at Jeremiah 25:29 as being in line for judgment in our day
and time. It reads: `the city upon whom my name is called,
... I am starting off in bringing calamity.'— New World
Translation This understanding helps us discern the true meaning
of the following words by Jesus at Luke 21:23, 24 which says: "Woe
to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those
days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and
wrath on this people [spiritual Israel]; and they will fall
by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations;
and JERUSALEM will be trampled on by the nations, until the
appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." — New
World Translation Yes, before the world at large is to be
judged, God's own name people must be judged. And we know,
the only people carrying God's personal name today is the
Jehovah's Witnesses. 1 Peter 4:17 further says: "Now
it is for the appointed time for Judgment to start with the
House of God." Yes, judgment "starts" with
the "house of God." But still, you may be wondering: "Just
how are they [Jehovah's Witnesses] becoming unfaithful as
an organization?" Again, to get the answer to this question
and many others, we must consider some of the detailed information
that deals with actual doctrines, teachings and policies of
the Watchtower Society, the leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses
movement. This information has been compiled in a dissertation
called "THE REPORT" based upon a unique prophecy
found in Ezekiel 21:7 which specifically deals with God's
chosen people. Yes, our time, is a time of great "peril." (2
Timothy 3:1 KJV), and "THE REPORT" addresses these
concerns. --- End of Part III--- "The Report" pgs
41-62--- EMC Publications PO Box 230445 Montgomery,
Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
15:17:02
Comments
Just an observation: The last book that was posted said that
the JW are the only religion that is faithful to Gods name.
I don't think that anyone really objects to the Jehovah name
being used. I have seen it used in my church and in songs,
but to suggest that others are not being faithful about using
is is nothing but Watchtower propaganda. The name Jehovah
was actually created by a Catholic church monk(a lost soul
from false religion as the Watchtower says). This monk lived
about 700 years ago in Spain. This was recognized in "An
Aid To Bible Understanding" but has been suppressed in
the new edition "Insight on the Scriptures" Now
my question would be, if Gods name is important enough to
suggest that other religions are not being faithful using
it, then why are they not using the closer name Yahweh. Now
I have read that they Society prefers Jehovah because it is
more well known. I guess I would question why they did not
accept that reason for when they use torture stake vs. cross.
See folks, it doesn't add up. If you want to know the real
truth, then you will have to accept the fact that a member
of the Wicked Catholic Church(which the Organization has said
before is Satan's Organization) actually named the Jehovah's
witness. I believe that fringe religions try to create issues
where they can to make them look different. This is one of
those examples.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
15:31:14
Comments
Listen to testimonies from Jehovah's Witnesses(who found the
truth of the bible) www.jwinfoline.com www.towertotruth.net
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
15:44:27
Comments
I have been associated with JW's for some time and on the
whole have always found them to be very honest, pleasant and
good living people.However, the recent revelations(pardon
the pun)about child abuse within the organization have left
me cold, disappointed and confused. The thing which really
annoys me is the fact that they have not, as far as I am aware,
made a public response.Also they have never actually admitted
that child abuse takes place within the organization. The
JW's say that they are not part of the world and that they
are different to Chistendom.I cannot accept this now and
feel that they are no different to any other religion. I feel
very upset about the whole issue. Anne E mail: woodhouse_a@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
17:38:47
Comments
Raquel VanRiper-raquelmoon58@hotmail.com will see you at the
march 9/27!Keep fighting for the children, Bro.Bowen, justice
will prevail!
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
18:15:56
Comments
Hello, I have a friend that is a JW and your info is very
interesting and helpful. I am a former Mormon and have serious
interest in all cult information. I have a Children's Health
Business called Children's HealthWatch Organization Thank
you, Carol 775 885-2743
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
21:03:19
Comments
Subj: RE: Cover up of child molestations within Jehovah's
witness organization Date: 8/2/2002 4:33:57 PM Central Daylight
Time From: TophersGirl1964 To: Editor@people.com Dear Editor:
I have been a reader for many years, I want to alert you to
a cover-up by the elders and Governing Body of the Jehovah's
witnesses, regarding pedophiles in the congregation. I'm sure
you heard or saw the Dateline episode but this goes far beyond
that. You can contact Bill Bowen at www. SilentLambs.com he
and some other have recently been disfellowshipped for "causing
divisions." Seems they like the Catholic Church would
rather harbor a pedophile and disfellowship (excommunicate)
the victim. Please look into this a story in such a well read
publication might help those fighting for the victims Sincerely,
Sheila Madonia
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
21:05:37
Comments
To all: Above is my letter to People magazine they have done
a large expose on the Catholic church, now maybe they will
focus on the coverup in the organization. I kept it short
hoping that it would catch someone's eye. Crossing my fingers
Sheila Madonia
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
21:16:49
Comments
What is this march about 7/27 and where is the march? Also
what is the march about? Thanks in advance.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:20:28
Comments
Wishing you all the very best, keep on fighting. Jeremiah
among so many others, old and new fought for what was and
is still right. In fact many, many 'leaders' were in their
hearts, enemies of Jehovah God and his Son. Regards. My email
is: lynntcb@tpg.com.au
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:42:34
Comments
Thank you so much for all the pep- talks in response to me
being in the dumps! And the happy birthday wishes. You are
all wonderful and this is the one place in the whole world,
that I can go with all the issues and know someone understands.
Love, Claudine *** P.S.I copied
some of the Report from bjc - thanks bjc, don't know if I
am ready to read this, but I did copy it to read later - ANY
prophecy is suspect to me at this time. But I appreciated
the input regarding the trinity and hell fire. *** saw
letter to People Mag...great! and saw there is another new
visitor or two who are concerned. I have never heard from
Stark- maybe he is on vacation.C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:43:25
Comments
Thank you so much for all the pep- talks in response to me
being in the dumps! And the happy birthday wishes. You are
all wonderful and this is the one place in the whole world,
that I can go with all the issues and know someone understands.
Love, Claudine *** P.S.I copied
some of the Report from bjc - thanks bjc, don't know if I
am ready to read this, but I did copy it to read later - ANY
prophecy is suspect to me at this time. But I appreciated
the input regarding the trinity and hell fire. *** saw
letter to People Mag...great! and saw there is another new
visitor or two who are concerned. I have never heard from
Stark- maybe he is on vacation.C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:56:40
Comments
Anne - you see what the rest of us see and feel the same way
as we do. Most of feel betrayed and sadden and very confused.
Have you read all the posts, past months and the other sections
in the web site here? It completely devastated me and appalled
me to think I was associated even remotely with anyone that
supports such a policy. But it was not anything I did not
know - I knew of pedophilia within the congregation, each incident
I considered an isolate case - funny how the mind works. None
of the pedophiles were DF'd and one elder let his son-in-law
take the blame for what he himself(elder) was doing to his
own granddaughter. Ruin the marriage and the brother left the "truth" -
don't know what happened to him. I have heard sisters say
these pedophiles are dead now as if that were the wages for
their sins, since they were never DF'd or prosecuted. As if
this is the answer to waiting on Jehovah. It is very encouraging
to read posts from new people who find silentlambs. Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
00:08:18
Comments
The Bible, Jesus I believe, offers easy advice for those 'drowning'
in endless, confusing and mind-numbing and faith-destroying
debates about doctrine. "By their works, you will know
them". Simple. Comforting. I'm so grateful for that.
I almost need nothing else. It's why we're all here, isn't
it?
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
07:07:21
Comments
"
We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel
of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 p.591 ___ Now
what does the scriptures have to say: Ps. 145:18 The LORD
is near to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him
in truth. ___ John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am
the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the
Father, but through Me." ___Gods word is the
BIBLE(Not the Watchtower and other publications) and the bible
says nothing about going through an organization to come to
the Father. We can have a personal relation ship with our
Creator. Heb. 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with confidence
to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may
find grace to help in time of need.
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
07:08:40
Comments
"
We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel
of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 p.591 ___ Now
what does the scriptures have to say: Ps. 145:18 The LORD
is near to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him
in truth. ___ John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am
the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the
Father, but through Me." ___ Gods word is the
BIBLE(Not the Watchtower and other publications) and the bible
says nothing about going through an organization to come to
the Father. We can have a personal relationship with our Creator.
Heb. 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with confidence to the
throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace
to help in time of need.
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
08:08:48
Comments
Senate Members welcome incoming correspondence from the public
via e-mail over the Internet. While Senators may choose to
respond to your note directly through e-mail, there may be
cases where more extensive follow-up is necessary. Please
include a mailing address on your notes in addition to your
e-mail address. The following New York State Senators are
currently participating: Senator District email Alesi, James
S. 55th alesi@senate.state.ny.us Andrews, Carl 20th andrews@senate.state.ny.us
Balboni, Michael A.L. 7th balboni@senate.state.ny.us Bonacic,
John J. 40th bonacic@senate.state.ny.us Breslin, Neil D. 42nd
breslin@senate.state.ny.us Brown, Byron W. 57th bbrown@senate.state.ny.us
Bruno, Joseph L. 43rd bruno@senate.state.ny.us Connor, Martin
25th connor@senate.state.ny.us DeFrancisco, John A. 49th jdefranc@senate.state.ny.us
Dollinger, Richard A. 54th dollinge@senate.state.ny.us Duane,
Thomas K. 27th duane@senate.state.ny.us Espada, Pedro , Jr.
32nd espada@senate.state.ny.us Farley, Hugh T. 44th farley@senate.state.ny.us
Fuschillo, Charles J., Jr. 8th fuschill@senate.state.ny.us
Gentile, Vincent J. 23rd gentile@senate.state.ny.us Gonzalez,
Efrain , Jr. 31st gonzalez@senate.state.ny.us Hannon, Kemp
6th hannon@senate.state.ny.us Hassell-Thompson, Ruth 33rd
hassellt@senate.state.ny.us Hevesi, Daniel 13th dhevesi@senate.state.ny.us
Hoffmann, Nancy Larraine 48th hoffmann@senate.state.ny.us
Johnson, Owen H. 4th ojohnson@senate.state.ny.us Krueger,
Liz 26th lkrueger@senate.state.ny.us Kruger, Carl 21st kruger@senate.state.ny.us
Kuhl, John R. 52nd kuhl@senate.state.ny.us Lachman, Seymour
P. 22nd lachman@senate.state.ny.us Lack, James J. 2nd lack@senate.state.ny.us
Larkin, William J., Jr. 39th larkin@senate.state.ny.us LaValle,
Kenneth P. 1st lavalle@senate.state.ny.us Leibell, Vincent
L. 37th leibell@senate.state.ny.us Libous, Thomas W. 51st
Senator@Senatorlibous.com
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
08:30:31
Comments
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg City Hall New York, NY 10007 (212)
788-9600 FAX (212) 788-2460 E-MAIL -- http://nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html>...Maybe
the Mayor of New York would be interested in another type
of Terrorism that is head quartered in his own city! The kind
of TERRORIST that hide child molesters,, that DF's the
one that are trying to help the children. The kind of TERRORIST
that ALLOWS child molesters to roam the streets and go door
to door disguised as ministers of GOD! The Org the Mayors
own community, hiding thousands of names of child molesters!
The file is in his fare city! If a federal Judge can order
the president to give over the names of the detainee's
of 9/11 then the Mayor can order the Org to hand over their
file! To bad the march isn't set for 9/11 when millions
of people will be there, or watching! Because even though
this has nothing to do with the terrorist of then, This Org
IS TERRORIZING children, making them face the accused, telling
them that there is nothing that can be done when there is
not two or more witnesses! Who defines terror? I say let the
abused children of the world give their definition. LET THE
TWELVE YEAR OLD IN CHICAGO IN NOVEMBER, THAT GOT BEAT TO DEATH
WITH AN EXTENSION CORD TELL, LET HER BROTHERS WHO WERE FORCED
TO PARTICIPATE IN THE BEATING TELL! LET THE EIGHT MONTH OLD
BABY WHO HAS CIGARETTE BURNS ALL OVER IT'S LITTLE BODY
TELL, LET LITTLE SAMATHA FROM CALF. TELL! LET THE TWO MONTH
OLD BABY THAT WAS SHOOK AND HAD IT'S LITTLE BABY HEAD
BANGED AGAINST A METTLE BAR UNTIL DEAD TELL! LET THE LITTLE
CHILDREN CHASED IN TX ONE AT A TIME AND DROWNED BY THEIR OWN
MOTHER TELL! LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN IN GARY, IN THAT WERE
BEING SOLD BY THEIR MOTHER TO PERFORM SEXUAL ACTS FOR OTHERS,
WHILE SHE TOOK THE MONEY AT THE DOOR TELL! LET THE TWO BABYS
LEFT IN THEIR MOTHERS VEHICLE TO SLOWLY BAKE TO DEATH WHILE
THE MOTHER HAD HER HAIR DONE TELL! LET THE LITTLE LAMB TIED
TO A POST AND MOLESTED WHILE HEARING THE SCRIPTURES TELL.
LET THE LAMBS DEFINE TERROR! TERROR OF THE SPIRIT, MIND, AND
BODY!
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
12:15:52
Comments
This is a great web site. Although I was not sexually abused,
I was mentally abused. You see it was all part of the "test
by fire" the elders put me through to see if I was qualified
to be a ministerial servant, even though I never asked to
be one. In the end when I was about to be appointed I dropped
out and stopped attending meetings. Part of "test by
fire" I'm sure was to see how I would handle criticism
(I had an elder tell me privately that what I was doing, attending
college, was against scriptures, for example...), injustices
(I had privileges taken away from me for no reason and given
to more "junior" brothers, with no explanation),
etc... I'm sure these, and other tests and humiliations were
all tests of my humility, but I couldn't get over how damaging
they were. In the end I guess I wasn't so humble after all.
Keep up the good work Bill. -David in CA
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
13:17:44
Comments
September 15, 2002 Watchtower Magazine Speaks Out On Apostasy
*** --- The following
quotes are taken from the September 15, 2002 edition of The
Watchtower, pages 16-18: *** From these quotes, we
can see the Watchtower Society is at War with the "Silentlambs" Movement! *** "In
the first century, such individuals as Hymanaeus, Alexander,
and Philetus, were advocating ideas that did not fit "the
pattern of healthful words." (1 Timothy 1:18-20; 2 Timothy
2:16,17) How could the early Christians avoid being led astray
by apostates? By carefully studying the inspired writings
and applying them in life. Those walking in accord with the
example they had in Paul and other faithful ones were able
to recognize and reject anything that did not conform to the
pattern of truth they had been taught. (Philippians 3:17;
Hebrews 5:14) Instead of being "mentally diseased over
questionings and debates about words," they continued
moving ahead in their positive course of godly devotion. (1
Timothy 6:3-6) We do the same thing when we keep on putting
into practice the truths we have learned..." *** The
following quote is definitely directed to the "Silentlamb
Movement" *** ..."Satan tries to break
our integrity through the sowing of doubts about what we have
been taught. Today, as in the first century,apostates and
others seek to destroy the faith of guileless ones. (Galatians
2:4; 5:7, 8) SOMETIMES THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA TO SPREAD
DISTORTED INFORMATION OR EVEN OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT THE METHODS
AND MOTIVES of Jehovah's Witnesses..." *** "...Whatever
stumbling blocks were involved, some evidently preferred falsehoods
over the truths of God's Word. Soon they stopped practicing
the things they had learned, and this was to their own spiritual
detriment. - 2 Peter 3:15, 16" *** "We
can avoid turning aside to false stories today if we scrutinize
and are selective about what we listen to and what we read..."And
modern-day apostates keep on trying to sow seeds of doubt
in order to subvert the faith of Christians...So we
need to be careful." *** "...If
our ears are inclined towards disgruntled ones, we need to
analyze ourselves prayerfully. (Psalm 139:23, 24) Are we inclined
to find fault with Jehovah's people? If so, why?..." *** "Rather
than being critical, let us maintain a spiritually healthy
view of the information received through personal study and
congregation meetings. (1 Corinthians 2:14, 15) AND INSTEAD
OF QUESTIONING GOD'S WORD, how much wiser it is to have the
attitude of the first-century Bereans who examined the Scriptures
closely! (Acts 17:10,11) Then, let us act on what we learn,
turning down false stories and clinging to the truth."---
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33712&site=3
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
13:59:27
Comments
To DA on the Battered Lambs section - no you did not bore
me - your story was heartbreaking. My mother too was/is a
staunch JW and I observed her for many years being SOOO NICE
to people at the congregation (my father was not a JW so the
elders never had to bother to side with him). Her act was
so convincing people used to come up to me and say "your
mother is SOOO nice isn't she". She was actually an extremely
cruel women, so cruel it hurt - she used to whack my brothers
and I, except my middle brother who was her favorite and
she would even buy him "special" food and I remember
at Sunday lunch she would give all the best meat to him rather
than to my father (who had gone to work all week to pay for
it - my mother didn't work). Worse than any whacking though
were her spiteful, hurtful words - she would stab you in the
back with that malicious tongue of hers. I spent years and
years trying to please her, buying her things, helping her,
anything just to make her like me - but when I got to 31 and
my father died I decided, no more. It was the best thing I
ever did. What is ironic (and I KNEW this would happen) is
that now she has got to be an old lady her precious favorite
son (who is still a JW) does not bother to be a good son and
I (disfellowshipped for marrying a "worldly" wonderful,
considerate, kind man whom I have been with for 15 years)am
the one who has suddenly become such "a wonderful daughter" etc
which is of course utter bullsh** because she never had a
good word to say about me as I was growing up. I remember
once my brothers were bullying me - they made me sit on a
stool so I couldn't move and then they walked round and round
me chanting things and spitting on me. My mother was ironing
at the time and I called to her and begged her to stop them
but she said nothing and had a smirk on her face - she was
actually ENJOYING seeing me bullied. No doubt I will be the
one to look after her in her old age - not her JW sons - because
I believe we have that duty etc. There are so many JWs living
a double life it is unbelievable - pretending to be Christian
when in fact as soon as they get behind their own front doors
they are nasty, spiteful and unkind people.
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
14:04:57
Comments
Interesting info in that WT. The sad part is that MOST JW's
are going to buy into that. When the Dateline program first
aired, I talked to a friend (JW) about it only because I knew
she had watched it. She asked me,” You don't think
we are brainwashed do you? I have always talked against people
who are brainwashed, i.e. Jim Jones followers, etc. but that
question has kept coming back in my mind for the past two
months and I have to conclude that we are brainwashed. It
is so subtle that we don't even realize that the WTS
has had complete control over our lives. This is especially
true for those of us who tried to do EXACTLY what the WTS
directed. We have no recourse if we disagree with anything
or question. They have effectively taken away our freedom
of speech which is supposed to be one of the wonderful things
about living in the US. Does anyone know of any active JW's
who are going to the march.? I just emailed the NY mayor.
Thanks to whoever suggested that. Trying to get local NY people
involved seems like an excellent idea. Jazbug55@aol.com
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
17:05:30
Comments
Sept.15/2002 Watchtower pg 16-18 that was quoted __ "And
modern-day apostates keep on trying to sow seeds of doubt
in order to subvert the faith of Christians..." ___ Try
all you can writer of this article, but remember "FEAR
FADES WHEN FACTS ARE FACED".
Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
20:25:02
Comments
Regarding = Thanks to whoever suggested that. Trying to get
local NY people involved seems like an excellent idea. Jazbug55@aol.com
... Jazbug you are quit welcome, I hoped that someone would
think it a good idea! I haven't as yet emailed, I want to
write the exact right thing in order to 'really be heard'
That for me is going to take some thought and prayer. I was
also looking for Senator H.R. Clinton's email, I thought that
she would be the exact one to 'get one the band wagon' regarding
this. With the now pres's wife all for child education, I
thought that Mrs. Clinton would like to 'put her two cents
in'! couldn't hurt. My ONLY doubts about the NY route is I
am sure that the Org has a lot of pull in that area, considering
they have a lot of money there! Maybe someone can come up
with a perfect email/letter, that can be altered to be personal
yet still get the same message across. I'm all for Help here!
bonnielynn
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
08:06:38
Comments
Denial + projection + peer pressure + name dropping (Stark)
= JW brainwashing success and its ensuing disastrous consequences
for families and children
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
08:10:07
Comments
Regarding the Watchtower quote about 'clinging to the truth'.
Shouldn't that read 'hanging on for dear life and with bleeding
raw fingertips to the 'TROOF''?...Hey! Let Go! It's only
God out there ready to catch you!
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
09:44:22
Comments
..."And modern-day apostates keep on trying to sow
seeds of doubt in order to subvert the faith of Christians..
PHOOEY No one here is trying to subvert the faith in Jesus
or in the FATHER so who's faith are they talking about, faith
in an Org that is revamping a community to hold enough slaves
for another 10 years! Why aren't they 'waiting on Jehovah
before building? I heard a story once, three different
preachers, one was bragging 'my church raked in, for GOD,
$10,000 this month! another one bragged my church raked, in
for GOD, $20,000 this month! The third one said "Well,
throw all the money up in the air and see how much of it GOD
keeps!
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
10:34:04
Comments
RE: Denial + projection + peer pressure + name dropping (Stark)
= JW brainwashing success and its ensuing disastrous consequences
for families and children ...
Keep sending letter or emails of protest: Dr Rodney Stark
. socstark@aol.com . . . Also to the Sociology Dept Head ..Dr
Bob Crutchfield . . . crutch@u.washington.edu Dr Crutchfield
shows a willingness to look at SUBSTANTIATED claims about
Dr Stark. Substantiate them by using press articles, JW-Media
site on disfellowshipping FAQ, Kingdom Ministry for August
, BBC articles, newspaper reports of Bill Bowen's disfellowshipping
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
10:53:21
Comments
Every time someone disagrees with The Watchtower they say
your an Apostate. Well i can accept that. Apostate to them,
only. God loves you regardless of the label they paint you
with. I was looking at the Reasoning from the Scriptures book,
on why witnesses don't carry on the Sabbath p345-52 and on
page 349 it implies the ten commandments are to be done away
with. On page 348 when asking about the greatest commandments
of the LAW Jesus comment included was Love thy Neighbor as
yourself. Obviously they haven't used this with their dealings
with the victims as shown on panorama, and dateline. Also
if the sabbath is done away with, why not the 2 witness doctrine,
it doesn't make sense to me. The Bible says you will know if
you are in the right church by the Love in the Congregation.
I never found much love but only false affection. Truly as
said in the Book of Thomas, "But Jesus looked upon Zacchaus
the teacher and saith unto him: Thou that knowest not the
Alpha according to its nature, how canst thou teach others
the Beta? thou hypocrite, first, if thou knowest it, teach
the Alpha, and then will we believe thee concerning the Beta." They
mish mash scriptures so much to fit arguments they have, they
know not the spirit of the books they're reading. What would
Jesus do if he went into the Kingdom Hall and found them covering
up the Abuse of children? I imagine, their would be smashing
up of Chairs, and a commotion, and a few witnesses would politely
throw him out! This reminds me of the scripture, Lord did
we not Prophesy in your Name, Get away from me you workers
of Lawlessness! Fortunately I'm no longer attending the indoctrination
of this movement, and I've found God and Jesus in my own way,
which may not suit everyone, but he Bible says its a relationship
between you and the father, not the Watchtower. So now they've
disassociated Bill Bowen, and you want to appeal, I don't understand
that. The organization is corrupt, and ungodlike, leave it
and be thankful. You know God more than they do, or they
wouldn't be in such a mess. The only way for you to change
the organization now is if you were to become a governing
body member. Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
We are in times like that of Noah, and the only ark is Jesus,
not the Watchtower!
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
11:22:24
Comments
I took a few seconds to check my exhaustive concordance of
the Bible, to see how many times the words organization or
organized was in the Bible. The answer is zero. So why does
it appear so often in the Society's publications? If the honest
hearted ones in the Watchtower movement were given the permission
to read the Bible for a month(and set the other material aside,
it would still be there for them later)they may find that
they are reading different teachings. Right now though the
Society has got people so busy with their publications meetings
and agenda, that honest hearted ones don't have even the time
to do serious study of the scriptures. It is the "so
busy mopping up the floor that you don't have time to turn
off the tap" syndrome. And it results in a kind of reading
the TV guide instead of watching the actual show type of understanding.
The publications do not equal the scriptures.
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
14:59:14
Comments
To Bonnielynn: I keep forgetting about the power and influence
the WTS would have in NY and elsewhere for that matter. That
position is even new to me since they have always spoke against
Christendom and all of its riches and power. I guess they
decided if you can't beat 'em, may as well join 'em. It will
be interesting if we hear anything from the mayor. Jazbug55
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:41
Comments
Example of the fine "witness" being given. http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=124076#post124076
Y'all truly do make me ill. What are you really doing to
protect the children? Are you actually "sigh[ing] and
groan[ing] over all the abominations" or are you just
whining and complaining? It seems to be the later to me. No
wonder Jehovah starts with his house first when bringing much
deserved destruction. "So they started with the elders
who were before the temple." (Ezekiel 9:4,6) Too bad!
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
18:58:09
Comments
Revelations, the book of prophesies or profit for the Jehovah's
Witnesses? ,,,This ambiguous book written by apostle John
late in the 96th year after Jesus death was a vision of the
destruction of man and his life style. Did the prophecy already
occur or is it still for our lifetime? Much can be said and
interpreted in any fashion to fit any or all circumstances
then and now. This book is vital in keeping the membership
for all Christian organizations full and with high expectations
of the future. I believe that this book maintains control
over all the members of Jehovah's Witnesses Organization
since the founding of Russell's church.*** I can imagine
in my mind all the descriptions of monsters, beast, and Angels
that are described in revelation. Such vivid descriptions
scare even I. John says that this revelation came by Christ
to him from angels and then was presented to him. This inspiring
prophecy surely is from a divine origin when it came to John
and so we must all believe. We have many organizations that
believe that they know all what each meaning is and parable
in every chapter in Revelations. The Jehovah's Witnesses
believe it will be a happy climax into a new world order and
bring about a grand Theocracy in which all men will be Governed.
I find after reading Revelations, that much of the prophecies
describes more or less repentance before all these things
written take place. I myself have fears and if I were a member
of any Christian Organization, I too must repent or be destroyed.
,,,Satan takes on a dramatic role in this book, along with
his cohorts from heaven. The book Revelation does effect everyone
profoundly, even those of others faiths. It seems that all
religions have something about the doom of mankind. This particular
book in the bible gives the feeling that we glimpsed into
the heavenly realm and the transcended glory of God. This
book also gives the feeling that we are to be moved in some
way to appreciate Gods and Jesus holiness in the Heavenly
realm. A Mormon told me that this book is meant to avoid the
evils of the world and to watch for Christ's rapture.
I can see how one would interpret this in that way. Revelation
does set standards for any those who are Christians should
adhere too. Will all these wonderful prophecies be fulfilled
in our lifetime or are the Jehovah's Witness Organization
false prophets? *** Christian groups wait with expectation
of this coming event. I was told not to ignore the counsel
written in the book of Revelation or I would be unrighteous.
I see that I or we obey all what is written, we too can be
saved when Christ returns. *** Carl Olof describes in his
book The Sign of the Last Days: “ that books that feed
off the prophecies of revelation often stimulate expectations
often enjoy great popularity”...So to be truly Christian,
the faith in divine inspiration is crucial and is a way to
acceptance to god and Christ and therefore is necessary for
any one to gain salvation. I find that to be a believer we
must be stirred up and exited about coming events because
we may be living in the last days as described in Revelation.>>>>> However,
is there truth in believing what TV evangelizers predict about
our modern times? We have existed throughout history having
wars and famine. What is truly being described in Revelations?
I believe at the time of the writing of Revelations the congregations
needed a future of hope or just fade like the others before,
any religious movement previously like Gnosticism did in the
1200's soon floated away like so much smoke and so I
see the Jehovah's Witnesses also. As time passed many did
not see Jesus return and those that did die, died with out
knowing if they missed the opportunity to see Christ return.
The writer or writers new that they couldn't let Christ
fade away, so they gave Christ a sense of being forever, in
a future were one couldn't interpret clearly the book
of revelations and or know exactly the day or the hour of
his return. Even modern day religions know this and use all
the chapters to fit their needs, especially the JW Organization.
It would be better to read Nostradamus because his writing
is no clearer than Revelations. I heard people have more faith
in Nostradamus than the book of Revelations, but the fact
remains, they are both vague. *** Blind faith in what is to
come will be the downfall of all religions in our future mostly
the doom seers who keep telling us that the destruction of
mankind is upon us. Why is it when I read Revelations I do
not get the same answer as do these other religious preachers?
I was told by a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses that
I have very little faith and I don't have as much Holy
Spirit as they do. I asked "how does one know how much
Holy Spirit one can have, either you have some or none I said.
Is there a degree of Holy Spirit one must have to interpret
the scriptures?" No answer. I believe this to be true
for all religions that ignorance is bliss. *** In Conclusion,
I would rather see humanity rid them of this mental pestilence.
My research has lead me to believe that religion has done
more harm than good. Revelation is nothing more than a tool
to keep people who want to believe in something in control,
so as not to question their religious authority in the hierarchy
of their religious ranks. Revelations was nothing more than
a prank to keep unity among the early religious congregations
because of all the early opposition. If Paul did write Revelation
it because he had foresight enough to realize that the early
seven congregations would eventually split without some sort
of hope, so to keep the unity and advance the cause of Christ
peace keeping efforts he wrote the book of Revelations off
a dream that scared him; however, our modern times has brought
about cults and splinter Christian religions that use this
information to scare, beguile and mesmerize the weak minded
into believing what they say is true causing the issue of
neglect and abuse we see on TV from the Roman Church and the
JW Organization among others. ***Clear headed reading from
the beginning of the Bible to the end one can see the story
being told about human thought and history for the last several
thousands years. Don't be afraid to read for yourself,
i promise no one will burn you at the stake today. Tomorrow
is another story...afraid in Sacramento
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:50:33
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:41:45 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
Local Paper --- Witnesses expelled Bill Bowen --- By Johnnie
Davis Tribune Courier Staff Writer Wednesday, July 31, 2002
--- Former elder of the Draffenville congregation of Jehovah's
Witnesses, William H. Bowen, received notification Thursday
morning that he had been disfellowshipped. Bowen resigned
his position in December of 2000 as a way to protest the handling
of child molestation cases by the church. Three elders from
congregations outside of Marshall County made up the panel
that decided to disfellowship Bowen. They were Jeff Steen
and George Bandarra of Murray and Ron Cary of Central City.
Bowen has accused the church of protecting pedophiles by not
reporting cases of child abuse brought before it. Church leaders
deny wrongdoing and claim to follow the law. “My purpose
in doing this is to protect the children in the Jehovah's
Witness community,” Bowen said in an interview Friday. “The
children who come forth should be praised as heroes, not ostracized
and treated as villains.” Bowen said he will appeal,
which must be done within seven days of the disfellowship.
The appeal was to be made on Monday. The panel's decision
is not final until it is announced to the congregation Thursday.
Bowen said he anticipates the appeal committee to make it
decision Friday. Bowen was to make his appeal before the three
original panel members and three members of the appeal committee.
Disfellowship is the harshest of decisions made by Witnesses.
It results in the person being shunned by Witnesses including
members of his own family. “Religion is protected by
the First Amendment, “ Bowen said. “The religion
will laugh at the courts if I try to pursue this legally.” Neither
Bowen's attorney, Rush Hunt of Madisonville, nor members
of the disfellowship panel could be reached for comment. “It
is the policy of the Watchtower to silence people by disfellowship,
they want people silenced.” The “Watchtower” is
a Jehovah's Witness organization. Bowen has started
a support group for abuse victims at www.silentlambs.org.
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:52:58
Comments
This was TOO GOOD, whoever is writing these VERY HUMOROUS
but Oh So True WORDS OF WISDOM. /SLC --- "It is the "so
busy mopping up the floor that you don't have time to turn
off the tap" syndrome. And it results in a kind of reading
the TV guide instead of watching the actual show type of understanding." (Funny!)
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:53:25
Comments
"
I guess they decided if you can't beat 'em, may as well join
'em. Jazzbug" --- Funny you should say that, Jazz.
I'd been thinking the same thing. I even read somewhere how
the WTS is trying to be more "mainstream," getting
on "good side" of the "world," (UN example
for one). - Well, covering up pedophiles sure won't win them
any fans. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:09
Comments
"
Well, throw all the money up in the air and see how much of
it GOD keeps!" --- :-) Funny! Let's revamp it a little: "Well,
throw all the money up in the air and see how much of it the
WTS LAWYERS keep." ;-) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:42
Comments
"
Hey! Let Go! It's only God out there ready to catch you!" --
Now THAT's a GREAT REMINDER! Thanks! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:55:12
Comments
"
FEAR FADES WHEN FACTS ARE FACED". -- Hey, thanks for
that quote! As a collector of quotes, somehow I never saw
that one before! I like it! My "fear" is slowing
fading, and I'm ever so thankful. That quote is so true, and
I really like it! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:56:52
Comments
"
Trying to get local NY people involved seems like an excellent
idea."--- Hi Bonnielynn & Jazzbug: Got any idea
how we can notify all NY cabbies ASAP so they can start talking
up the WT pedophile issue and the SL March, telling their
fares about it? (You can imagine how many people cabbies talk
to everyday!) Just a thought. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:58:32
Comments
9-15-02 WT: "SOMETIMES THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA TO SPREAD
DISTORTED INFORMATION OR EVEN OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT THE METHODS
AND MOTIVES of Jehovah's Witnesses.." --- How timely,
too, knowing this mag will be distributed to the public before
the SL March on 9/27! I bet all the Bethelites will be sent
out in droves, probably on a big magazine campaign in the
NY area! What creeps, working hard at their damage control.
HOW can the current JWs BUY INTO this? I wonder how many of
them sitting in their homes reading their WT BELIEVES WHAT
THEY ARE READING about this HUGE "HINT HINT" NOT
to believe the "Media" a/k/a Silent Lambs? Arrrggghhh!
This really gets me bent. My heart was willing to give the
WTS some leeway to come clean, but they just keep digging
their heels in deeper and deeper. Such a Shame for a group
I once loved dearly... /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:00:46
Comments
Thanks for all the senate email addy's and that of the mayor,
too. I haven't worked up a good "form letter" yet
either, but I agree we should probably keep it brief but adding
media links/articles, etc. is a good idea, too. It's just
so hard to get it all organized for sending. If anyone beats
me to it, please do share. Thanks! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:03:14
Comments
"
We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel
of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 p.591
--- I wonder if what they meant to say was CHANNELING as
in this dictionary's definition: "9. The medium through
which a spirit guide purportedly communicates with the physical
world." -- Food for thought, eh? /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:05:06
Comments
"
...funny how the mind works." --- So True Claudine,
So True, in more ways than one. And what is even more funny
is how the "mind of the WTS" works! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:07:42
Comments
Hey Claudine, glad you are feeling better. You wrote, "I
have never heard from Stark- maybe he is on vacation." ---
Hey, MAYBE, just MAYBE he is busy looking into what the society
has done with his quotes. Maybe not, though, if they paid
him enough for it. Oh well, just a thought that he may have
taken your emails very seriously! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:13:52
Comments
TAKE HEART ALL THOSE ACCUSED or DF'd for SPEAKING UP! I
saw this encouraging post on another forum. GOOD SCRIPTURAL
EXAMPLE. /SLC --- "It is true that David said that
he would not strike Jehovah's anointed, but this did not prevent
him from TALKING TO MANY PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED and
WARNING THEM that Saul was out to get him and them. In 1 Samuel
19:18 David TELLS Samuel what Saul had done, at 1 Samuel 20:1,
he DISCUSSES IT with Jonathan. 1 Samuel 22: 1,2 apparently
MANY PEOPLE HEARD ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO DAVID AND JOINED
HIM. From the context of 1 Samuel 22: 13 Saul accused David
and the people of conspiring against him. In 1 Samuel 24:
12-16, David ACTUALLY SAYS to Saul THAT HE IS GUILTY and that
JEHOVAH WILL JUDGE BETWEEN THEM. When JWs speak out in protest
against what is happening are they not doing the same thing?
Have any of them taken God's judgment into their own hands
to harm any Jehovah's Witnesses? Even though the WT seems
to think there is a conspiracy against them, most everything
that is spoken in regard to the WT is true and they have not
been slandered. Even if they are not the Anointed of God,
they have been accorded respect by the majority of XJWs. They
just do not like the truth to be told about all of their past
shortcomings. They want to be seen as God's Organization that
cannot be spoken against."
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:16:25
Comments
REMEMBER THE SONG, "BE LIKE JEREMIAH"? Well, let's
really take this to heart also! (Seen at another forum). /SLC
--- "Jeremiah was a role model for STANDING APART FROM
'THE ORGANIZATION.' By the WTS's standards, Jeremiah was essentially
disfellowshipped for 'apostasy' for speaking out against Israel's
leadership. They even sought to kill him to silence him, did
they not? Yet, Jehovah warned through Jeremiah that Israel's
prophets were false prophets. Presumably, if they had heeded
Jeremiah instead of "the organization", their temple
would not have been destroyed and they would not have gone
into Babylonian captivity."
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:24:20
Comments
Thanks Sheila for the People magazine letter and for sharing
it with us! --- Welcome to Raquel VanRiper-raquelmoon58@hotmail.com,
I'm jealous! Wish I was going to the march! I looked up fares
at Amtrak, not that bad, but it would take 20 hours in a coach
seat to get there. Misery. Been There, Done That before, and
it was miserable then, too, as bad as riding a Greyhound bus!
(And would you believe Amtrak charges $890 for a sleeper?
No wonder they are going broke!) --- Thanks for the info
from Children's Health Business/Children's HealthWatch Organization/Carol
775 885-2743. --- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:25:10
Comments
Hey BLM! That was great info you posted before, Thanks! /SLC <http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numbertwentythree.htm> And
what is a pedophile?
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:28:40
Comments
Thanks bjc2 for the email addy for the author of THE REPORT!
Appreciate it, and for all the info you posted from it. It
all sounds very plausible to me! (Did I say thanks already?
I am behind in replying to posts, and getting confused of
what I did/didn't do yet! ;) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:32:17
Comments
BLM wrote: "SLC = it's me bonnielynn, I've been posting
and not leaving my name..." --- Hey Bonnielynn: I should
be able to recognize your posts by now, with or without a
sig! ;) Smile! Thanks for Bush & Cheney addresses, too!
I haven't been able to devote much time to the Guestbook/SL
lately. I need to write one simple email and then zap it to
all the addresses which have been provided to SL! Hope everyone
else is hanging in there! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:36:59
Comments
Wendy! So brief yet so poignant! We know how you feel. /SLC
--- "i want to weep...and help..wendy" ---
And Anne E mail: woodhouse_a@hotmail.com, who wrote, "I
feel very upset about the whole issue." --- Thanks
for sharing! It's a brutal realization for those who had not
a clue, as I didn't, yet did. As Claudine wrote, "Funny
how the mind works." Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:38:37
Comments
Buster, thanks for the laugh! You wrote to Fuzz I think it
was: "I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to
it. - Buster" - LOL! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:42:14
Comments
Welcome to: Julie Villagomez My email is Juliej316! -- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:47:46
Comments
Claudine! Your post about your stressful week really hit home.
DITTO HERE! And your heartfelt description of feeling lost,
etc. Also DITTO to that! But it's getting a little better,
as far as feeling like a Fish Out Of Water. I'm too pooped
to give your post the reply it deserves (notice I've been
making very short replies tonight). For now just let me say,
if you have time and haven't already done so, please check
out: <http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi> & Questions
for the forum if you have any, email to: <cc-questions@channelc.org> --
There are some very good threads there, good food for thought
that should help the "lost" feeling. Hang in there
lady! Love ya/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:52:50
Comments
Remember that great scripture in Isaiah 10:1,2 previously
posted? Here is some research on that done by another person,
but I thought it was interesting. /SLC --- NASB Isaiah 10:1,2:
Assyria Is God's Instrument --- 1 Woe to those who (1) enact
evil statutes And to those who constantly record unjust decisions,
2 So as (2) to deprive the needy of justice And rob the poor
of My people of their rights, So (3) that widows may be their
spoil And that they may plunder the orphans. --- Footnote
(2) points to Isaiah 5: 23 (1) Who justify the wicked for
a bribe, And take away the rights of the ones who are in the
right! --- Footnote (3) points to Isaiah 1: 23 Your rulers
are rebels And companions of thieves; Everyone loves a bribe
And chases after rewards. They do not defend the orphan, Nor
does the widow's plea come before them. --- and Isaiah 3:
14 The LORD enters into judgment with the elders and princes
of His people, "It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
The plunder of the poor is in your houses. 15 "What do
you mean by crushing My people And grinding the face of the
poor?" Declares the Lord GOD of hosts.
Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:57:21
Comments
SOMEONE WROTE: ""Make haste to identify the visible
theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus
Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in
accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower October 1,
1967 p. 591 (Talk about loaded sentences. It is these type
of incredible and dangerous claims that make an organization
shy about admitting that mistakes can happen.)(Is the organization "essential
for life"? Not as far as the bible is concerned.) ---
You may appreciate this following comment from another forum
(Channel C) since it describes what you are feeling/saying.
/SLC --- QUOTE: "Re: All the studying has been done
for you --- You have developed what my mom and I like to call
the "Third Eye." That's being able to read the WT
literature, which may appear to be scriptural and logical,
but in reality is sinister and manipulative. You've also seen
what the true motive is behind this propaganda: to keep the
followers in line, being dependent on the GB for everything. "Blind
guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind
man, both will fall into a pit." (Mt 15:14)"
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:34
Comments
Hi again, Thanks Jazzbug for the post showing pedophiles choose
what they do. I agree it is evil. There is just no other way
to put it...Once they cross
that line and practice their deviant behavior they never
cross back. You can't give them a conscience when it is not
there. Pedophiles have a major holes in their conscience.
How can you give them empathy or a conscience in this? In
my experience you can't... I want
Bill and the others to keep fighting the disfellowshipping.
They have followed the Apostle Paul in talking about and exposing
criminal behavior in the congregation and trying their best
to protect the flock. Jehovah will not forget the your works
or the love you showed. It is going around the world and exposing
this for all to see. This could only be with Jehovah's blessing...
This web site is working in harmony with Luke 8:17 "THERE
IS NOTHING HIDDEN THAT WILL NOT BECOME MANIFEST, NEITHER ANYTHING
CAREFULLY CONCEALED THAT WILL NEVER BECOME KNOWN AND NEVER
COME INTO THE OPEN." ...
Later in Luke 12: 1,2 Jesus says to "watch out for the
leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy" then in verse
2 " BUT THERE IS NOTHING CAREFULLY CONCEALED THAT WILL
NOT BE REVEALED, AND SECRET THAT WILL NOT BECOME KNOWN." In
verse 3 "WHEREFORE WHAT THINGS YOU SAY IN DARKNESS WILL
BE HEARD IN THE LIGHT AND WHAT YOU WHISPER IN PRIVATE ROOMS
WILL BE PREACHED FROM THE HOUSETOPS." Isn't this happening
now with the two TV programs aired all over North America
and Europe?... In Luke
12:45-48 I recommend everyone read. It describes the faithful
and discreet slave and that some would become unfaithful and
when the master arrives he will punish them according to there
works. Notice the wording. In verse 45 and 46 it says if ever
that slave should say...The unfaithful slave comes from
the faithful slave. I encourage everyone to read and notice
the wording. Notice in later verses how the Master Jesus will
punish them! In verse 45 their actions identify who they
are. Notice at the end of verse 48 it says "INDEED EVERYONE
TO WHOM MUCH WAS GIVEN MUCH WILL BE DEMANDED OF HIM AND THE
ONE WHOM PEOPLE PUT IN CHARGE OF MUCH THEY WILL DEMAND MORE
THEN THE USUAL OF HIM." The Governing Body will have
to render an account for all their actions... I
am very glad that everything is coming out in the open and
being exposed as the scriptures say would happen eventually...DJB
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
00:22:08
Comments
SLC: Sorry to hear you are down too. We need Bonnielynn to
tell us a funny story I think. I do go to "C" Channel
everyday and jehovahs-witness.com - both have some very good
posts. Love, Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
10:32:09
Comments
If their Christian love is really so touched by the inner
difficulties of pedophiles, why don't they take up 'prison
ministry'? Where they could have access to lots of pedophiles
and no one would be trying to hide it nor allowing them continued
access to victims?...big heart, small balls? Put your money
(and your time and your reputation) where your mouth is.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
12:23:37
Comments
Why these lies about Jehovah's witnesses? I know they don't
let children die.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
13:07:23
Comments
Would someone please give me a little info on The Report?
What is that, a website, newsletter, what? If there's a link
to check it out, please give it to me. Thanks! Linda Thoman
Linthoman@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
13:47:37
Comments
If anyone is interested in reading the Bible, they will discover
that the words love, loving etc. are used more than 10 to
1 in the Scriptures over the words preach, preaching etc.
Even if you have a magazine that teaches the truths of the
bible(which the Watchtower material does not) you can still
put emphasis on things that a group wants to make a priority
that may not be given the same weight in the bible. Please
note all that do not share this view. In Acts 17:11 says that
the Bereans..."examined the Scriptures every day to see
if what Paul said was true." What do you think the Bereans
would say if they were presented with a Watchtower magazine
instead to see if what Paul was saying was true? Give it some
thought. We all have to get back to the scriptures in their
pure form instead of the big mass publishing machines "book
of the month club". Take care everyone.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
14:28:19
Comments
To Claudine, and all of you.-Words of inspiration...Artist-"Jewel" Album-"Spirit"-Song-"Life
Uncommon" (Play it often...Play it loud!)- SEQUIA
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
14:49:19
Comments
My wife and I are Christians, though she and her five sisters
were raised in a strict Jehovah's Witness family. I feel sorry
for all of them, because they are such good people, but are
trapped. I tried talking with them about the freedom Christ
gives us. They are so closed-minded. They think anything not
from the Watchtower Organization is from Satan and all other
religions are from Satan. I think it is the other way around!
I feel sorry for these kids who get abused and are forced
to keep silent. I hope the whole organization will get exposed
in the light and many kids will be saved from this torment.
I have the book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures with
Jehovah's Witnesses", and love it. I hope I can slowly "chip
away" the "authority of the Watchtower Society" with
my in-laws. It will be very tough without them shunning our
family. Keep up the good work! and please keep me informed
on the latest dealings in regards to the Jehovah's Witnesses:
court cases, child molesters uncovered, etc.. my e-mail is
rby05371@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
15:35:25
Comments
An anonymous poster ( Aug 4 @ 10:53:21) commented ***So now
they've disassociated Bill Bowen, and you want to appeal, I
don't understand that. The organization is corrupt, and ungodlike,
leave it and be thankful. *** sometimes a legal case is fought
not with winning a favorable verdict as the goal. A legal
case before a corrupt judge exposes the corruption of the
so called legal system itself. Bill went into the so-called
judicial system knowing that a favorable verdict would not
be handed down.He has to carry the case to the complete and
final end. That way the WTS will be exposed before the world
as a fake judicial system. The world is watching. The world
sees the corruption. The WTS has to be exposed as not only
the abuser of women and children but also the abuser of anyone
who tries to protect them. Bill can not walk away from this.
No he does not hold out hope that he can change the WTS by
his appeal. His is only one voice in the wilderness crying
out for justice. More voices will join in until there is a
great roar that the world will pay attention to. *** The WTS
claims to be the channel of communication from God. It sets
itself in the temple of God, claiming to be the Faithful & Discreet
Slave, the anointed of God, with power and authority to judge
the nation of God. Actually the Governing Body sets itself
up as a god demanding unwavering obedience from the nation
of Jehovah's Witnesses. Isn't this what is said about the "man
of lawlessness" at 2 Thessalonians chapter 2? All this
time they told us that it was the clergy of Christendom. Maybe
they needed to look in the mirror? Well, it looks like they
are being "revealed" for who and what they are.
*** that dear anonymous one is why a person would go thru
the whole DFing process. *** Hi to the rest of yas. I have
been real busy lately. A reporter from the St Petersburg Times
is doing two articles here locally. She could not find an
abused child to interview so she is doing the article on what
happens to those who speak out. She has been in touch with
Bill. She interviewed me. She wanted my picture. I said no
( nobody wants to see my face in the paper especially me)
The other article is about the whole disfellowshipping thing
and how it can tear families apart. She has interviewed several
disfellowshipped people from this area. So things are rolling
right along. *** Love Y'all, Loris
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
16:04:09
Comments
*** The mole *** Since the watchtower organization
is frankly out to establish a new world society, or a world
wide organization under the rule of the watchtower theocracy,
it cannot afford to be a charitable organization. it has to
its credit no bona fide charitable works, which it at best
considers maudlin sentimentality. They usually justify this
by misusing the lords statement, "let the dead bury the
dead", or they denounce the organized charitable works
of Christendom as hypocrisy on par with the works of the pharisees
which the lord condemned, and use the lord's dictum against
vain display of good works. In thus upbraiding Christendom
for its organized charities, they cleverly threw up a smokescreen
to divert attention from the complete lack of charitable works
by their so called Christian organization.. Yet wonder of
wonders, they do insist that they practice charity! Why is
it when going door to door pushing their magazines can be
considered a charitable work? Home bible studies a charitable
work? These people spend hours devoted in discussion of what
they contend to be charitable works. They eagerly expect to
be rewarded openly by getting appointments as servants, or
get a good standing in the congregation and with the society...now
the real truth has come out on some of the abuses that we
as member see on a frequent basis, especially those who in
dire need of help are told to seek out government assistance,
only the new recruits get all the fondling and praises, those
cast aside and not fitting into their groups are the ones
removed for petty sins..charity starts within the Kingdom
Halls and so far none has been seen, only those with masks
on come inside to hurt and injure the innocent being welcomed
so dearly from the those in power...the mole
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
16:17:54
Comments
LINDA T.: EMCPUBLICATIONS@YAHOO.COM - is where you can find
information about the REPORT - I copied the post from SL on
8/2 - there are three posts very long from the Report. But
I have only glanced at it. I am extremely wary of prophecy
interpretations - I wonder why... *** Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
16:56:06
Comments
Thanks Claudine...but can you verify the addy for me? I tried
it and got nothing. Linda T.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
19:38:44
Comments
For an interesting article on JW shunning: http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
21:16:04
Comments
FBI Tips and Public Leads <<< https://www.ifccfbi.gov/complaint/terrorist.asp …..
While the FBI continues to encourage the public to submit
information regarding the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks,
!this form may also be used to report any
suspected criminal activity to the FBI.! Does anyone
here think that the media statements that the reps of the
Org made stating that they allow ‘known pedophiles' to
go door-to-door are also admitting to a criminal act? I am
not a lawyer but common sense tells me that if ANYONE knowingly
sends a known pedophile to people's homes they are potentially
putting people, and their children in danger! They have to
be guilty of a crime! In for a penny, in for a pound! What
do you think? BLM
Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
22:56:54
Comments
LINDA T. - there were 3 posts, on August 2 - three very very
long ones quoting the Report. The address and email address
is there. I'm sorry it was an email address - not a web site.
I didn't realize it was an email address - sorry. Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
00:27:15
Comments
Thank you Loris and DJB for your great words from the Bible!
And I totally agree with you Loris about Bill's Mission and
the purpose of it. Can't wait to read the articles.==What
are the elders going to do with you? LOL ***
Thank you Sequia for the music recommendation. I love music.
Don't have a CD player - need to get one. I just bought a
$10 phonograph (kind of out dated) so I could play Victoria
de Los Angeles - opera - gorgeous, passionate music. TO:(((((((((((the
mole))))) now when are you going to get out of the mess you
are in? You would feel a lot better if you left,and spent
the time with your grandmother. How is she doing? Any more
fallout from the letter you wrote to the family or has anyone
started to dialogue with you in a positive way?The 6 million
in a world of 6 Billion is a drop in the bucket and the WTS
is uncharitable, and will remain that way. It can't get more
so than shunning or DFing good people. They will never be
a great religion - sorry to say. All of us feel let down -
can you image how Jehovah and Jesus feel? JW 's don't have
time to help people in this system of things because they
think it undermines the new system of things. Any help with
food or money is temporary and the permanent solution is in
New System. They feed people the new system - it is a wonderful
hope, I have to admit. It has kept me going thru very difficult
times. I still believe in the new system, but the WTS does
not know the way and I can't follow them! I don't think they
will be there. And it might not be around the next corner!
Love, Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
10:09:05
Comments
Thank you so much for all of the hard work that goes into
this site and in trying to give a voice to those who have
been victims and need an advocate for change. Ernie Branson
LaVergne, TN
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:11:26
Comments
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:50:12
Comments
Hey all...Does anyone know where I can find information I've
heard circulating that the JW's are predicting Armageddon
to come in 2005? If anyone knows, please email me with it,
my son is asking LOTS of questions now. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:50:16
Comments
Hey all...Does anyone know where I can find information I've
heard circulating that the JW's are predicting Armageddon
to come in 2005? If anyone knows, please email me with it,
my son is asking LOTS of questions now. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:55:56
Comments
Sounds to me like many here owe a debt of gratitude to JW's
Everybody is using the name Jehovah, who showed you that,
a Baptist? Many by their own admission believe in a paradise
earth as clearly taught in the bible. Who showed you that,
a Catholic? Still others acknowledge being shown the truth
about what happens when we die. Who showed you that a Methodist?
Many others who have left the organization do not identify
with any religion. Why? If JW's are so evil and everything
else is so much better then why not become a Catholic, a Mormon,
a Methodist heck why not become a Muslim or Hindu? Anything
has to be better than them awful JW's. Can you believe it...why
they think homosexuality is wrong imagine that! They think
fornication and adultery is wrong, wow! And this is the biggest
kicker, they try to live peaceful calm lives and as a whole
are hard workers and sincere in what they believe. They ought
to be damned for such lifestyles! Ever heard the phrase a
few rotten apples will spoil the whole bunch? Well instead
of picking out the rotten apple and looking for the other
99 that are good the smartest thing to do by everyone's definition
in here is to ignore the other 99 and focus on the bad one.
Make as big as deal as possible! (See how bad this one is,
look at all the wormholes in this one, look at the uneven
shape of this one, look at the lump on this one...) before
long everyone is convinced that the small portion of bad apples
in the basket have been so demonized that that the only logical
(or illogical) thing to do is discard them all! I have mulled
this all over and I can't see any wisdom in going it alone.
Just as many in here have acknowledged bible truths as taught
them by JW's then I feel and have complete confidence that
Jehovah will take care of all things in his own way or with
finality and complete justice in the end. If there is someone
so corrupt in a congregation or at headquarters a sincerely
believe that Jah knows that and will take care of it. But
to leave the only religion whom I feel tries to live by bible
standards and a lot more completely and thoroughly than any
other is tantamount to walking through a wilderness with a
group of people who are your only source of physical and spiritual
comfort and because of a spat with a couple of people you
decide that you can go it alone, so you wander off, cutoff
from your source of food and eventually you die from the elements.
Bottom line: I don't think that JW's are such bad people and
that any other religion has the truth or even the majority
of the truth that I feel the need to leave. That's just my
view and I feel that if others would quit beefing over everything
than they would be a heck of a lot happier than sitting in
from of a computer all the time writing posts about how bad
JW's are. Tell me a religion any better as far as Bible truths
go and healthy lifestyles go where divorce rates are low
and most families are in tact, leave out the ones that say
smoking is OK, immorality and homosexuality just an alternative
lifestyle, holidays although we know have pagan origins but
we do it just because everybody else does... and I'll show
you a very short list! Forget the imperfect ones who as I
said will be dealt with in Jehovah's own way and look at the
whole instead of the few and I will again show you a very
short list. Can you honestly look at the whole of any one
religion and say with a certainty and with what you already
know about the bible, that their belief structure and accepted
practices are as an organization approved by God? Am I evil
if I choose to stay a JW I am confused as to what the mission
of this site is. It seems to me to be getting away from its
stated purpose and has become a JW bashing party.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:02
Comments
To the above JW defender: It would be easier to address you
with a name or a handle. Anyway, the posters on this site
show remarkable restraint and capacity to stay on subject.
No one is trying to turn it into a JW bashing site. That is
not to say that people don't ever add to the topic. But for
the most part, this group is focused on alerting the Society
so they can clean up themselves. Barring that, they are letting
the rest of the community know what is going on. But to the
point - you want to focus on the larger picture. OK, I can
only assume that you haven't been a witness for long. Take
a look at some of the older teachings. Take a look at the
very foundation of your religion. Many organized religions
feel that God must have a favorite child and that they must
be it, none more so than the JWs. History, and those that created
it are part of the big picture you refer to. The core set
of beliefs are another, perhaps more significant part of the
Witnesses' big picture. Did you know you belong to a religion
that used to believe that God was the architect of the pyramid
of Giza - because of its measurements 'prove' their timeline?
... that you belong to a religion that built a house for the
returning princes of the earth (Yes, a mansion in San Diego
for Moses, David - those guys)? ... that you belong to a religion
has predicted Armageddon at least a dozen times, starting
in the 1870's (do I need to mention that these predictions
were wrong?)? Current beliefs are just as untenable - you
cannot defend the literalness of the 144,000 without WatchTower
articles. The logic used to deduce 1914 is absurd. I'm not
talking about pointing at a few bad apples. I am talking about
core beliefs - the very basis that you claim to cling to.
There is no baby in the bathwater - toss it. - Buster
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
13:11:27
Comments
Your comments are true and there is too much JW bashing going
on but let's face it disfellowshipping is a harsh policy
that disrupts families and many individuals are extremely
upset. Also to shun members for opposing child abuse cover-ups
is to violate human rights. The WTBS needs to come clean and
admit to the congregations what has actually happened, it
needs to quit using double talk to appear factually truthful
and yet cover up terrible deeds. Why am I not still if the
organization? I believe what affected me the most was that
it was possible to convince many members of Jehovah's
Witnesses congregation to testify in behalf of a CONVICTED
child molester such as Manuel Belize or Paul Berry. I began
to wonder how that could be possible? What on earth type of
mind control are we experiencing? If these people can be used
as pawns in the WTBS game than what else will they do? After
all if you can take good women, good men, wives, husbands,
mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers who already know
that child molesting is wrong and train them to over ride
their conscience what VALUE is the “spiritual education” we
have been receiving? It seems if the body of elders wishes
to engage in unethical behavior that is their decision, but
should they intimidate others to go along with them by threats
of censure for disrupting the peace of the congregation? I
realized I could not longer trust the decision of the elders,
and it escalated upward from there…….couldn't
trust the circuit overseer, district overseer, couldn't
trust the FDS. All those years spent studying the Bible; learning
about God and in the end of what value was it? How did it
make a difference when congregation members were required
to show courage and integrity even if it meant standing up
to the Organization? Our leaders will do evil and individuals
will carry out their wishes. I believe that it must have been
difficult for first century Christians to leave their Jewish
faith, their friends, their families and the organization
that had taught them the truth, but sometimes we are required
to do more than just go along. Would my life be easier with
my head buried in the sand and still with my JW friends, yes,
it would be. Sometimes we must have courage to do the right.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
14:07:06
Comments
I simply left the JW's in 1991. I thought God hated me, however
while I was mad at God, I never abandoned belief in God, just
the tyrannical cult to which I belonged. I really thought
it was the "truth". However in 1993 there were many
cult experts on TV during the Mt. Carmel/David Koresh thing.
I realized listening one day that the Jehovah's Witnesses
are a certified cult! I am so glad to have left and got out
relatively unscathed, however my parents are still involved
and my dad is still an elder. I pray they get away from that
CULT, however they are deeply committed and won't even listen
to any opposing ideas. Thank God I never had to experience
what these poor kids did, being molested and having it "covered
up" by the JW's. Bill Bowen, keep up the good work. God
is blessing your efforts! Texas Girl
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
14:16:00
Comments
This is for the JW defender as Buster called him or her. Jehovah
is indeed the creator of the universe. His name stands above
all other names. Because the group of Bible Students took
The Name and attached it to themselves they come under a higher
accountability than other religious groups. They are the ones
that formed a covenant with Jehovah in 1931 to uphold that
name before the entire world. *** Yes they are to be commended
for revitalizing basic truths and teachings of the Bible.
They have taught millions how to live by clean Bible standards.
Most people associating with them try very hard to conform
to those standards. No other religion can match that record.
*** On the other hand they also applied the term Faithful
Discreet Slave to the select few in power. This gives them
the illusion that they are the direct channel to God. It gives
the illusion that they can interpret prophecy with absolute
accuracy. The truth of the matter is that they are 100% wrong
on their interpretations. If they were in this favored position
with God they would have EVERYTHING right. How many predictions
of Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Daniel were wrong? 0 *** Go to any
library or book store, look up the destruction of Jerusalem.
An interesting archaeological discovery was made in the early ‘50's
It was a collection of historical events recorded with the
astrological information to establish the dates. If nothing
else the Babylonians were exact time- keepers. from that the
exact date of the destruction of Jerusalem can be determined.
And guess what it was not 607 B.C.E. ! With that said and
established the whole 607/1914 thing falls apart. Think man.
Think. WW1 began in August. The WTS says that the Gentile
Times ended in October. Jesus began his rule in October. Does
this mean that Satan jumped the gun and started early without
him? Did the Fiery Red Horse take off from the starting gate
three months before the Rider on the White Horse started to
ride? *** I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses “in
good standing” as they say for 37 years. I have just
recently began a very in-depth exploration of TRUTH. I am
embarrassed to say that I did not do it sooner. But like you
I was looking at the good things only. And there are very
good things but the Governing Body is not one of the good
things. ***Jehovah is beginning to call them to account and
they are severely lacking. For that they will come under a
greater punishment than us. But we are not lilly white ourselves.
We supported them for years. We upheld the wrong teachings
, we taught the lies to others. For that we will be punished
also. To the extent that we make changes now and attempt to
right the wrongs our punishment will be either less or more
severe. The decision rests with each one as an individual.***
I worship Jehovah that will not change. My allegiance is not
with the WTS. That has changed. *** Nuf said. As always,
Love Y'all, Loris
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
15:56:54
Comments
Hi Loris, I posted the post on august 4th, forgot to put name.
Its bas, care of www.antijehovahswitness.com The only thing
i have to add id everyone says Jehovah this that or the other,
but Jesus never knew the name. There's no J in the Jewish alphabet
for a start and the name was taken up in error. So YHWH may
do something about this organization or he may not. If its
not his real name he's unlikely to be bothered. But as they
are claiming to represent the one true gods organization and
they don't, I'm sure he will do something about that! I heard
Bills coming to England , UK, and would be interested in seeing
it, any info bill? I really wish I'd been there at my local
district convention this year with the Child abuse evidence,
and the UN relationship, but alas it was not to be. I told
many JWs about the abuse when i first heard of it before i
left, end of 2000. No one believed me. All i got was shunned.
regards bas.,
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
16:39:14
Comments
I have known many Jehovah's Witnesses over the years, and
none of them are like that. A few isolated cases can't be
used to judge over 6 million true Christians. I think this
is an attempt to get money...nothing else.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
17:13:15
Comments
Dear JW Defender: ... In your Post you carefully described
examining apples to find a bad one... For clarity would you specify which PERSON corresponds
to the BAD APPLE? ... Is
it the PEDOPHILE that rapes the innocent little child? OR
is it the ELDERS who cover-up the crime and forgive the pedophile
giving him anonymity to molest more children OR is it the
CONGREGATION members who follow orders to keep quiet OR is
it the CONGREGATION members who serve as character witnesses
for the pedophile and against the little victim? OR is it
the CIRCUIT or DISTRICT OVERSEERS who back the elders and
further harass the victims to silence? OR is it the GOVERNING
BODY members who ignore the mountains of letters filled with
pain and suffering because of their policies? ... Which
ONE is the BAD APPLE? We can clear that one out and keep the
rest. Please respond.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
17:38:06
Comments
You guys are living a pipe dream. Read the bible. See how
clearly Jah states time and time again what constitutes fornication,
adultery, slander, loose conduct, apostasy, every sin this
world is swimming in. I agreed with the person who reprimanded
the JW bashers and made sense as opposed to you folks that
have turned this into a JW bashing site. I wouldn't
put two cents into anything anyone said that sits for hours
on a computer with a bible cracked open, haphazardly plucking
bible verses and giving their own explanation or spin to fit
their beliefs. Not to mention that they rely heavily on Watchtower
materials, as seen quoted so often on this site. Give me a
BREAK already with the talk about failed bible predictions.
If you read the bible, which I'm sure some of you do,
you will find that many faithful men and women didn't
have a full understanding of what Jah's purpose was.
Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions. What
would you say to them? I challenge anyone and even your Messiah
Bill Bowen himself to comment on that. Don't ask me
who what when, look in the reasoning books you all have in
your back pockets, or the WT CD's you so often use.
Remember that it was a scientific fact that the world was
flat. Did people leave when they found out it wasn't?
What about the rest of the wonderful things that were here
on earth? I chuckle when I see comments like Linda Thoman's “I
hear that the Org is predicting Armageddon in 2005”.
How about this one, “The JW Org wants to establish a
new world order and subject it to its rule” (thanks
mole for that golden nugget). All digs, all the time, is what
this site amounts to, regardless of how you try to clarify
that you're not bashing, you're just alerting
the organization. So, instead of spending all your time posting,
posting, posting, spend a little time understanding the bible
and what Jah's requirements are for one to be a true
Christian.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
18:08:11
Comments
I wanted to see the scans about the body of elders letters
in the UK and US, what happened none of the links work. bas.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
18:14:21
Comments
by the way, i don't make any money, i do it to help people
find the lord. The .com sounds better than .org, or .co.uk,
so there. bas
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
18:41:40
Comments
To the person who started by saying: "You guys are living
a pipe dream". ___ What a fine
lesson you have provided us on "bashing". Help forgive
us and our "messiah Bill" for not pouring syrup
all over the loving, kind, fair, always merciful "faithful
and discreet slave." To those who would like to follow
the fine example, lovingly provided by "The Mother Organization" click
on the following: ___ http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/wtchurchattack.htm
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
19:18:12
Comments
Regarding the comment = Am I evil if I choose to stay a JW///the
comment that was posted here, in the Silentlamb guest book,
here where the editor has been DF'd, you have now did
the ‘unthinkable' you have entered and made spiritual
comments to DF'd JW's, you have ‘sat down
with them' so to speak. You will now, as a ‘good
and proper' JW have to go to your elders and confess
that you have done what they say ‘DO NOT DO'!
Now you are subject to being DF'd yourself, of course
you can still sincerely repent and promise to never ‘speak' to
another DF'd witness. That will keep you in I am sure!
But oh, wait, you couldn't come back here and AGAIN ‘defend' an
Org you have JUST sinned against! On to the next topic,
As, I am sure that YOU know, the witnesses teach not celebrating
certain things because of the pagan origin, yet JW's
honeymoon, which was a pagan ritual of giving the groom ‘honey' beer
of a ‘moon' or month after the wedding. So…… why
is practicing the pagan ritual of honeymoon okay and not the
others? Why is wearing a wedding ring okay when that has pagan
origin? The witnesses teach that it is wrong to have pictures
of GOD or Jesus hanging up in your house, yet they constantly
have pictures of this nature in their mags, and books! The
witnesses teach that every religion but their own are from
Satan, yet they quote statements that other religious people
have said, when it ‘puts them in a good light'.
The witnesses have taught for years that the UN is the ‘beast' of
rev. YET THEY WERE MEMBERS OF THE UN FOR YEARS! AND DO
NOT EVEN SAY ‘SO THEY COULD HAVE ACCESS OF THE LIBRARY” Phooey!
IF THE UN IS THE BEAST THE ORG SHOULD HAVE NEVER WANTED ACCESS
OF THE UN'S LIBRARY, WHAT THEY WANT TO GET INFORMATION
FROM THE BEAST? THEY WANT TO LEARN FROM THE BEAST? STEPPING
FOOT INSIDE THE BEAST IS BEING PART OF THE BEAST, WHICH IS
WHAT THE ORG TEACHES! ASSOCIATING WITH APOSTATES
IS WRONG WITH THE ORG, YET ASSOCIATING WITH THE BEAST IS NOT?
JUST HOW HYPOCRITICAL IS THAT? TEST THE
SPIRITS AND IF THERE IS A BAD APPLE WITHIN THAT SPIRIT AND
THAT SPIRIT IS DFING EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GET THE
BAD APPLE OUT, AND THE SPIRIT IS HIDING THE BAD APPLE BEHIND
A LOOPHOLE IN CAESAR'S LAW, AND THAT BAD APPLE IS ‘HARMING
ANYONE ONE OF THESE CHILDREN' THEN THE SPIRIT IS FOUND
WANTING! And you ask, who started the world using the
name Jehovah? The Baptist? NO< A catholic monk did!
OKAY, now I ask, WHO STARTED THE BASHING OF OTHER RELIGIONS
FOR HARBORING, DEFENDING AND ACCEPTING PERVERTS?!
Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
19:44:27
Comments
To the person who wrote: "Sounds to me like many here
owe a debt of gratitude to JW's. Everybody is using the name
Jehovah, who showed you that, a Baptist?" Yes thank you!
Now I think that it would also appropriate if JW's and others
would thank the Catholic Church Monk who 700 years ago created
the Word Jehovah by combining the vowels from Lord and YHWH
together to come up with name Jehovah! Did you thank that
person from Christendom? What you didn't? Why not? Oh I see,
he is part of Satan's Organization. Well, well, how can we
use the name then? OK, lets just pretend we didn't know that
then.
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