August 2002 Guestbook

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Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:18:53
Comments
Someone wrote: "If I am not really mistaken one of the worse type of person to Jesus was a hypocrite!" --- Yes, and Jesus didn't need a PR Department to whitewash his dirty laundry either. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:04
Comments
Thanks for the child abuse training manual/study investigation. Sounds like it wouldn't take much if the WTS REALLY REALLY wanted its elder to have some "training." But then they don't really care how sloppy they handle things because they'd rather stay in denial and keep it all undercover and behind closed doors. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:54
Comments
PRESS RELEASE from Silent Lambs --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:10:42 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Joe Anderson Disfellowshipped --- 8-1-02, Addition to 7-31-02 PRESS RELEASE --- JOE ANDERSON-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-31-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate --- WILLIAM H. BOWEN-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-25-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate --- BARBARA ANDERSON-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-25-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate WHY ARE THOSE WHO SPEAK OUT FOR CHILDREN BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED? --- WHY IS JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' GOVERNING BODY ORDERING CHILD ADVOCATES DISFELLOWSHIPPED? --- Joe Anderson-67 of Normandy, TN, husband of Barb Anderson and a faithful Jehovah's Witness for over 50 years, resigned as an elder of over 43 years in protest of Watchtower policy on child abuse in June, 2002. In his letter he humbly requests the church to make needed changes to protect children. On Wednesday July 31 he was disfellowshipped at a judicial hearing, charged with, “causing divisions” because he sent a copy of the letter to fellow elders in his congregation and two members of the Governing Body who were personal friends. While he plans to appeal, Joe comments, “I stood up for children and by the judicial committees actions directed by the Governing Body, they protect those who rape children.” 931-455-6910 --- William H. Bowen, of Calvert City who is founder of the organization "silentlambs," (www.silentlambs.org) a support group for victims of child abuse who were molested as Jehovah's Witnesses, spoke out as a former elder on Dateline and Panorama about how children are being harmed by Watchtower policy. Last Thursday July 25, he was notified that he had been disfellowshipped in a secret hearing. He sent his appeal on Monday. Bowen comments: "The leadership has decided to silence anyone who identifies this problem by destroying families through disfellowshipping. Hundreds of abuse survivors have suffered a similar fate at the hands of these henchmen, this is a public evidence of how Jehovah's Witnesses directed by the Governing Body have created the “pedophile paradise.” 270-527-5350 --- Barbara Anderson, 62 of Normandy TN, was disfellowshipped by an announcement on Thursday July, 25 for speaking out on child abuse. She is a former researcher who worked for the Church's Writing Department, in Brooklyn, New York, she is featured on Dateline speaking out about child molestation cover-ups that go all the way up to the denomination's Governing Body. Anderson, learned Sunday that her appeal was denied, said the church is acting ''so that Jehovah's Witnesses will feel that they are justified to say to others that we are liars.'' 931-455-6910 --- The above individuals represent over 130 years of active service as Jehovah's Witnesses, over 25 years in bethel service, and well over 40 years in full time service. They all three have been disfellowshipped for “causing divisions”, yet not one person has left the faith because of their actions. What was the evidence against them? The committees produced letters written by members of the Service Department along with other elders. Watchtower has just created a new policy, that is, letters can now appear as eye witnesses to disfellowship in face of a denial. Is this really the proper application of Deut. 19:15? Could eye-witnesses in Biblical times just write there accusation on a scroll and that be used as a testimonial basis to stone a person to death? Are victims of abuse with accusations awarded the same autonomy? --- “Let the reader use discernment.”

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:34:08
Comments
Hi SLC, bjc here. --- You wanted know about the "Two Witnesses" (Rev. 11:3) and whether the author of the "Report" wants to get back in the JW organization. *** The author of "The Report" believes there will be two great gatherings of Jehovah's Sheep from the JW Organization, away from the clutches of the Governing Body and WTS. *** THE FIRST GATHERING. *** The "Tents of Judah" will be the first to be gathered from the JW organization. (Zech. 12:7; Malachi 3:16, 17) These are the ones The "Report" shows to be a great number of JWs who have been "killed" or executed (disfellowshipped/disassociated) in the past for the Name of God, as being "martyrs for righteousness" in God's eyes. This would include any JWs who was mistreated by the WTS and excommunicated unfairly, for ANY REASON many years ago. God knows this, and will be the final judge in their cases. Bible prophecy indicates that any of these "executed" ones who still wish to serve God, and has not lost his faith in God completely, will be gathered. The author points to Ezekiel 34:1-21 as his "proof" text, which he believes shows prophetically that it is God's purpose to gather all of his injured or abused sheep, all those who have been treated unfairly and "pushed" out of the fold, to the "outside" of the JW organizational fold, by wicked "shepherds"/elders with "horns", and scattered across the earth to oblivion. This is the FIRST gathering of His sheep. (Ezekiel 34:21) *** Bible prophecy indicates that Jehovah will accomplish this great "gathering" work of his injured sheep, "on a day of clouds and thick gloom". (Ezekiel 34:12) A time of great distress for JWs. The author of "The Report" sees himself to be among those gathered in the first group. Those gathered during that distressful time of "clouds and thick gloom". Therefore, the author does not have any desire to return to the JW Organization, as it exists today. Especially since he believes it is truly lead by the nefarious "man of lawlessness". (Jer. 30:7) "The "REPORT" also speaks of a second gathering of JWs "sheep". *** THE SECOND GATHERING OF JEHOVAH'S SHEEP *** The second group regathered from the JW Organization by God, prophecy indicates will be The "Two Witnesses" who are discussed in Revelation 11th chapter. *** (Volume II of "The Report" covers this information in detail. Volume II of "The REPORT" is unreleased at present, and only exists in manuscript form.) In short, The "Two-Witness" movement represents a "reform movement" within the JW organization that will "wreak havoc" upon the organization in its finality, due to powerful High Officials, who join in the movement, at the behest of Almighty God. Much damage is done by these High Officials for Reform (the Two-Witnesses) although they do not totally destroy it. But the JW organization will never be the same after this public, powerful "break in the brotherhood" by these high officials of the WTS. (Zech. 11:14) This powerful "break in the brotherhood" of JWs, this great division within it, will cause many, many individuals (10s of thousands) who have served for many years faithfully, to voluntarily leave in TOTAL DISGUST of the WTS! Many will be "removed" from their "office" of oversight within the congregational arrangement, before wanting true "reform" for the JW organization. Also many will be forced out, by way of Disfellowshipment or disassociation. (Rev. 12:2-5) Amazingly, included in this number will be powerful JW officials such as Circuit and District Overseers and possibly men of higher rank within Bethel branches worldwide. These powerful men, are hidden power-sources of the "reform" movement even now, but are not commonly known as of yet. These powerful men of influence within the JW Organization will reveal themselves, much to the chagrin of the WTS and G.B. This revealing of themselves, will undoubtedly place the JW Organization under incredible stress. *** Bible prophecy reveals these men (High officials) will become visible opponents of the WTS and Governing Body. Prophecy reveals, the "silent lambs" movement will be one of the primary reasons for this situation, fired by all of the bad press associated with it. (See Ezekiel 36:3, 12-14) *** Then too, the secret 10-year UN Scandal will re-surface too as a primary reason for this open "revolt" against the WTS and the G.B. Outright "idolatry" of the Governing Body and the UN/Scandal will be at the core of this "revolt" against accepted WTS evil practiced. (Ezekiel 43:7-9; 44:7,8) *** Thus, "The Report" speaks of this situation, as the "Two-Witness" Movement, one of "repentance" and reform for JWs. One of "sackcloth" is worn by penitent JWs, where true "repentance" is sought from God. This is the second group that God will gather from the wicked WTS. (See Rev. 11:3) But in the end despite their faithful efforts to lead the rank and file to "repentance", still, Bible prophecy reveals the overwhelming, massive wickedness of the G.B. and WTS will prevail because of the mindless "worshipful" attitude of the majority of JWs, resulting in the tragic removal from the JW organization, of many conscientious and faithful pioneers, ministerial servants, elders, Circuit Overseers, District Overseers, Missionaries, and Bethelites of High rank. These ones will not be able to continue to stomach the rank apostasy shamelessly practiced and espoused so openly by the JW majority. *** After leaving the JW organization, these faithful brothers will be regrouped into a new spiritual nation, for God's glory. Because it was God's will all along for them to leave apostate "Jerusalem" to themselves, for total destruction before God as his "enemy". (Rev. 12:2-5) *** Bible prophecy indicates that what's left of the filthy JW organization, after the faithful leave, will become as an organization, and will be revealed in the end, as infamous "Babylon The Great"! (Rev. 18:2-4) *** Bible prophecy indicates the FIRST GROUP of JWs, who prove to be a little more discerning as keen Bible students than the second group, will make their exodus BEFORE the "Two Witness" Reform Movement brings distress upon the Governing Body. The FIRST GROUP of individuals will leave around the same time the big fight gets underway and gets out in the open for the public to see. Their "birth" is imminent, namely the FIRST GROUP of dissenters. The JW group that Jehovah gathers. (Micah 5:3; Isa. 66:5-9) *** Here is a little information posted by "MDS" (the author of "The Report) back in 2001 on the subject on JW.com. *** "...In the days immediately ahead, Zechariah 12:2,3 shows "Jerusalem" will come under powerful, restraint, "siege" even, by the world at large. Certain "events" have caused this to occur, EVEN BEFORE the "Great War" is concluded...even before. A milder but much needed "righteous indignation" from God for the practice of "sin." But this is NOT ALL that comes upon them, since "sinful" Israel, does not repent...does not see the need for "repentance" before their God, Jehovah. Even though, the "Reformers", the "Sheiks of Judah" and "inhabitants of Jerusalem", the "Two Witnesses" movement of Revelation 11th chapter strongly advocates "repentance", demonstrated and depicted in scripture as wearing "sackcloth" garments...still, no repentance, on the part of "Israel." They ignore this "repentance" message from the "Two Witnesses." For this, mystery "Israel" will indeed, experience many "words of abuse" against them, during this time, from the world at large...all during this time of advocated "repentance" for the nation. -- See Ezekiel 36:12-14; Zechariah 12:2-8; Isaiah 43:28; Revelation 11:3-6 *** However, AFTER the "Great War," mystery "Israel," will be considered, earthwide "enemies" of mankind in general . However, during the 3 1/2 year "witnessing" period of "repentance" by the "Two Witnesses" to the JW Organization, particularly in the last year and a half of it, "Israel" will surely experience stinging, "abusive words" and other, comparatively milder forms of persecution directed at them because of a practice of unforeseen practice "sin" before God. Nevertheless, because of "sin" of leadership, thus the whole nation of "Israel" is guilty and must "answer" to God, according to Leviticus 4:3. The scriptural principle holds true today. -- Please carefully consider Ezekiel 36:12-14." *** Also this comment" posted in the same thread... "...Bible prophecy indicates that a major split or major break in the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses, resulting in two factions of JWs, divided off from each other, but co-existing within the same worldwide congregational fold at the same time will occur. This division, which already exists, become MORE ACUTE AFTER, the pivotal date of October 7, 2001...the anniversary date of carrying the Name of God upon themselves as a spiritual nation for 70 YEARS! WHY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE GOD'S PEOPLE, MYSTERY "ISRAEL" OF OUR TIMES October 2001, is the 70th anniversary of the time when all JW congregations worldwide were in position to fully understand what it meant to accept that Name, to carry that Name, Preach that Name, the Name of God, upon themselves. They AGREED before God, Jesus Christ and all of the Heavenly Host, and even earthling man, yes, to carry that Great Name upon themselves -- To carry the weighty responsibility to "Live Up to that Great Name," upon themselves. It was a Covenant Arrangement between God and themselves as a Nation. Numbers 6:27 shows, God's "Blessings" came upon them as a "Covenanted" People before Him...because they agreed to "carry His Name upon themselves. -- See Deut. 26:2; Deut. 28:10; 1 Kings 8:41-43; 2 Chron. 7:14; Daniel 9:19; Jeremiah 25:29; Acts 15:14; Acts 15:17; Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 6:1; Hebrews 6:10; Revelation 14:1 *** Mystery "Israel," The Answer: Jehovah's Witnesses are mystery "Israel," because primarily, they carry God's Name upon themselves, as a spiritual nation or people. Thus they have been permitted to enter a "Covenant" Relationship with Him, because of this. This could only have happened, unless God allowed it. At present, because of bad leadership, the spiritual nation is "acting wickedly against that Covenant." (Let it be noted, there are other practices and teachings of the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses which also help us to identify them as mystery "Israel" of our day that are NOT mentioned in this treatise.) -- Daniel 11:30 It was indeed, the time when the spiritual nation began to embrace that Great Name before others, yes, preach that accepted identification, that Great Name, unto the world at large. A very, very heavy responsibility indeed...to "declare that Name" to others. -- Deut. 32:3 Psalms 105:1,3; 2 Timothy 2:19 Notice, "In order that the leaders of the world might be duly notified of this proper designation for Jehovah's people this resolution [adopted previously July 26, 1931 at Columbus, Ohio Assembly] and the text of Brother Rutherford's convention address were published in the booklet The Kingdom the Hope of the World...During October of that year [1931, exactly 70 years ago] a campaign was conducted by the congregations to visit every clergyman, politician and big businessman in their territories with this booklet. In just the United States and Canada 132,066 booklets were put out in this way. Within the next few months this booklet reached the homes of five million others in all parts of the earth." -- Jehovah's Witnesses In the Divine Purpose (pub. 1959), page 126, par. 2 October 1931 -- October 2001 ... a 70-year period...of Carrying God's Name...a period of special "Discipline" or instruction from Him...70 Years of Discipline Upon Israel. *** These events spoken of in this writing, are sure to come, based upon Bible prophecy. The "Reformers", make up the "Two Witness" Movement of Revelation 11th chapter, as we see it among JWs as a nation...as they work among them today. Even now, the "Reformers" and the Non-Reformers co-exist together in the JW Organization. We are quite aware that many JWs are not for any form of "reform" at all. They follow the presumed "F&D Slave" implicitly, completely without question. Still, very shortly both groups will be divided by "heated issues"...after October 7, 2001. However, they will continue to co-exist for a time...still staying together for a period of time. But their "division" will become more pronounced, AFTER October of 2001. It will become visible at that time, much more open, as to their "differences." Thus, a visible, major split is foretold in prophecy for the nation of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses at that time. The split will become visible...open for the public and all to see, an already existing split...for now about 2 years. *** This VISIBLE split occurs, as Bible prophecy indicates approximately the same time the "King of the North" in the person of the "small horn," surfaces on the earth's scene...when the spiritual "rebels" against God, "act to a completion." This will be a time for special ACTION for the "sheiks of Judah," who are urged on by the "inhabitants of Jerusalem," reformer supporters. The "Sheiks of Judah" will be encouraged by these newfound supporters, the "inhabitants of Jerusalem." It will be during this time, a time of special "blindness" dealt out by Jehovah God upon "Israel's" leaders for the practice of "sin" when the "Sheiks of Judah" wreak havoc upon the JW organization, and the fight, the differences become quite VISIBLE. -- Please carefully consider Zechariah 12:4-6. *** At this time, the "1,260 days" of "witnessing" or "prophesying" on the part of the "Two Witness" Movement, will indeed, be nearing its finish or completion ...with close to 2 years of that particular period of "witnessing" already passed...the "break in the brotherhood" of "Israel," between "Judah" and "Israel", will now be more pronounced, more discernable...all around this Great Anniversary Date of October 7, 2001. God is always on time to carry out His Word. Bible Prophecy brings it all together for us...in perfect blend and perfect harmony. -- Zechariah 11:14; Daniel 8:23; Revelation 11:3; Isaiah 19:2-4; 55:8-11 *** Also, this comment: "... Just as these things start to occur, a small "remnant" from "Israel" (the "Tents of Judah") will begin to see, how lovingly, Jehovah God has provided many, many clues to assist his people during this time of "Great Distress," through Bible Prophecy. This is something we will have to admit, when we see these events occur...Even those who scoff. -- Zechariah 12:7; Amos 3:7; Jeremiah 30:7; 1 John 4:8; Acts 13:40, 41 "Alas! For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like it [the "Great Tribulation" upon "Jacob"], and it is the time of distress for Jacob [or "Israel"]. But he will be saved even out of it." -- Jeremiah 30:7 Yes, mystery Israel "will be saved even out of it," ... this "Great Tribulation" coming upon the spiritual nation, for their many acts of "sin" and "transgression" against God. The God of the "Holy Covenant" that they VIOLATE continually...following the wicked, nefarious "Man of Lawlessness," who is UNREVEALED at the time of this writing before "Israel." -- Revelation 7:14; 2 Thess. 2:3-12. *** bjc *** Link for post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11937&site=3 PS: If you would like more information on the book, or would like to receive a copy of "The Report", you can contact the author at: emcpublications@yahoo.com Hope this helps. *** bjc

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:55:02
Comments
ANYONE KNOW IF THE ELDERS HAVE HAD THIS KIND OF TRAINING? Implications for future training include longer and more intensive training periods which involve practice time, observation, and working as a secondary officer with a trained investigator before the trainee becomes a primary officer for the investigation. Key issues for training include child sexual abuse dynamics, children and suggestibility, the sexual abuse disclosure process, child development issues, the use of non-leading questions, the use of interview aids, fact vs. fantasy, rapport building with children, discussion of private parts, and setting the stage for a spontaneous disclosure.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
01:01:14
Comments
SLC = it's me bonnielynn, I've been posting and not leaving my name, don't know why, just got so worked up, I got the info about the training on a fed government site. there are a lot of things to go through, I was hoping to find a fed law to help! If we can find that we may be able to get some REAL serious eye openers! love me, bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:01:27
Comments
Request to Jehovah's Witness people: Help me to find (in the bible) the Great Crowd's plan of salvation. The anointed Christians plan is covered quite well. I do not see anything about a plan of salvation for a Great Crowd.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:33:23
Comments
So sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was yelling, just a little lazy on the keyboard. I will take all of your comments under advisement. FUZZ

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:41:58
Comments
Please show me just one scripture that says "come to Jehovah's organization for salvation". Just one scripture!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:28:33
Comments
> http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numbertwentythree.htm> And what is a pedophile? As sex researchers you might think he or she is a person who is exclusively or to a significant degree sexually attracted to pre-pubertal children. !But as observers of the social and political scene you would have to conclude that a pedophile is a monster who attacks and defiles innocence.!On this definition there can be !no such thing as an innocent or non-practicing pedophile,! though there are in fact saintly individuals who manage heroic life-long feats of restraint – people who, especially if they are elderly bachelors, find themselves rewarded with nothing but constant suspicion. A pedophile thus by definition cannot be an affectionate person, !nor can a child be fond of him once he is unmasked like some alien in a horror movie.! He may for years have seemed to be a pleasant, caring, kind, decent, honorable man, but of course that is all part of his cunning disguise. !And there can be no legitimate private thoughts and private fantasies where such a monster is concerned.! How can the policies insist that the accuser face their MONSTER!SHAME ON THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE ORG! WHY DON'T THEY PUT THIS IN THEIR WATCHTOWER MAG! BLM

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:50:57
Comments
Here are a couple more little email addys that might be of assistance! bonnielynn <President George W. Bush ::: president@whitehouse.gov --- Vice President Richard Cheney ::: vice.president@whitehouse.gov

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:56:51
Comments
Hey, since this IS a world wide issue...inquiries@un.org <inquiries@un.org>... If the WT can be a member for 10 years, must not be anything wrong with sending a few hundred emails! BLM

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
09:11:08
Comments
It is a grave injustice and shame that because 6 million people were told by a 'worldly' org. that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES who HE will save! that these 6 million people actually believe it! How can all of them believe this? Is that not 'judging' everyone else? What about the men who brought down that plane on Sept. 11 and saved a lot of innocent lives, forsaking their own like for others? What about all the people working so hard to try and save ANYONE at the trade center? DOES EVERYONE THINK THAT THE ONLY HEROS THAT DID THIS WERE ALL WITNESSES? What about them, they are going to go to the FATHER and HE going to say 'OH, THANKS FOR THAT BUT YOUR NOT A JEHOVAH WITNESS SO, SO I DO NOT KNOW YOU! I don't think so and if anyone else thinks so then they are the greatest evil, LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR, LOVE FOR HIM, IS WHAT IS REQUIRED! NOT WHAT WORLDLY ORG YOU ARE A MEMBER OF! AND YES THEY ARE A WORLDLY ORG! BRAGGING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE BUILDING, BRAGGING ABOUT HOW MANY SLAVES THEY OWN! AND DIS'ING OTHER RELIGIONS FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY THEMSELVES DO! HOW MUCH MORE WORLDLY CAN AND ORG GET! SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO THINKS THEY ARE BETTER THAN ANOTHER! THAT THINKS A CHILD'S CRY MEANS NOTHING TO THE FATHER! SHAME SHAME SHAME, AND I AM HEARTILY SICK OF NO ONE SEEING THE REAL SHAME IN ALL OF THIS! THEY TEACH THAT WHO EVER PRACTICES EVIL IS NOT OF THE FATHER BECAUSE EVIL AND GOOD DO NOT LIVE TOGETHER! IF IT IS NOT OF THE FATHER IT IS OF SATAN! SO WHO ARE THEY REALLY WORSHIPPING?

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
12:02:13
Comments
Fuzz: You sound just like a Mormon with the 'I'll take it under advisement' comment. You have been called out, by some direct and some humorous posts to defend one the most basic tenets. So lets hear it: 144,000 as a heavenly anointed class going to heaven, while the rest of us either die or watch - defended without quoting a Watchtower article. Go ahead and look it up in Society publications and find a reasonable stream of thought that gets you from the figurative references in Revelation to the 'present understanding' using sound biblical references. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to it. - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:29
Comments
SO WHO ARE THEY WORSHIPPING: I remember back when I was getting my indoctrination in the Franklin,MA cong. We went to the hall with my mother, while my father never got caught up in it. During my teens my father and I rarely discussed the teachings - perhaps because of one exception that I remember particularly well. I don't remember the introduction to the conversation, but he asked me if I 'really believed that only JWs would be saved'. I had my immediate answer ready, 'Of course, only the Witnesses practice according to God's word.' Then asked about his mother - did I think God would destroy people like her? Oh I really shined that day! I can excuse myself a bit for being a dumb 15- or 16-year-old. But I reaffirmed my statement that God would destroy all such people. One more point, his mother, my grandmother to whom I had never gotten close, had died a few years earlier. I didn't know it then, but in retrospect I think he missed her quite a bit. Here comes the part where my JW training saved the day. I told him how fortunate it was that his mother had died. It was fortunate she was dead because she now has the promise of resurrection. I can't believe such thoughts ever were in my head and spilled out of my mouth. I now have a 16-year-old and I would be terribly hurt if she were capable of such cold-heartedness. - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
14:19:19
Comments
The challenge of thought is to except a belief in Satan or the evilness of human depravity. Are we the evil within or is there an evil of an outside source? This has been asked for centuries, is there viable proof? As far back in human writings there has been written account of gods or angels who come to earth to live. It was suggested by the early Jews that we were influenced by the fallen angels, others like the Greeks said it was the gods who influenced mankind. Is there proof? Lets examine Satan intellectually, without the obtuse thinking of Christians fundamentalism which pollute the heuristics of our minds. An empirical look is needed at researching Satan from an outside influence instead of using the church, because in this way we have sound reasoning and no purpose in recruiting or scaring others into our way of thinking. *** As far as I remember, Satan's opposition to god has been part of my Christian teaching. I've been taught that Satan will take over my mind if I listen to the wrong music , watching bad movies, and using the known vices of man. Everything that was done to someone that was bad or turned out bad, and was considered evil, was because that individual was influenced by a being that was unseen . I heard expressions like he or she was possessed by bad spirits of some form , so this is why they did what they did. Our teachings included stories of fallen angels who temp men into doing what was bad, even if it meant escaping certain environments that were considered wrong, but was right for the individual. These invisible beings present impinged on our world since the era of Genesis, so I was taught. I think Carl Sagan said it best when he wrote; " if we are in the company of aliens or unseen beings why have they not revealed themselves, leaving evidence of there presents or scientific proof for us to study? " *** This question has allot of validity. Why not? Why is it always left to faith of Satan and his cohorts that they do create evil afflictions upon us? We are taught to believe that god has a resistor, and if we are to join a Christian group we are told to renounce our previous way of life that was evil and resist all the devils works. So, if I were from another faith, I must have been evil? *** Visions have been written down about Satan and given the best of stories. Dante's story is the best of visions of hell and his description of Satan himself. Dante described Satan as a" towering beast with three faces with two wings who was trapped in ice; he rebelled against god". Today, it is no different from then, we have all sorts who blame their thoughts on Satan , their actions, and their hallucinations. I can truly say I have not seen a three faced winged creature, and if I have, I probably would be in an institution and not writing this . I believe Elaine Pagels described Satan best in her book The Origins of Satan, "The Christian tradition has been to demonize the opponents; to solidify ones group by placing that either those within their group or outside their groups as apostates or heretics, it does unify those believing in the same beliefs without question... They are to demonize their enemies and vindicate Jesus followers... The figure Satan becomes, among other things, a way of characterizing ones enemies as an embodiment of transcendent forces. " *** I can not say that I seen Satan without feeling some apprehension. I have seen my own organization comment evil that Satan would be proud of. This phenomena still baffles my mind. I wonder if I could get a great following in telling my vision, probably not, it would be better to say it was a reflection of Christ. I might be able tell it was his reflection off a dirty peace of glass and make a profit. I would be within my rights to proclaim I seen a vision or something, or could it be as Scrooge described when he seen his vision: a potato from the morning breakfast, a bad case of heart burn, or gas from yesterdays dinner. I can not say. Should I consider being excised in a church or in my room before my head spins around. Is it like in the 1800's when men seen pink elephants while intoxicated, today people see green men. Nothing has changed. Christian groups are looking for the Antichrist around every corner. Who can we believe, what group is true? Do you believe me or would anyone place blind faith in my vision? I think not , I probably would get the recommendation to see a Psychiatrist or be committed in some state hospital. Yet I find it very humorous that people drive great distances to see an image of Christ in a cloud or off some poorly washed window. Maybe its the arch deceiver that is creating these crying images or apparitions? The Jewish Kabbalah suggest; "We must constantly clarify the mind, so that it be free of the dross of deceptive fantasies, groundless fears, bad habits, and deficiencies". *** Humans have the tendency for great brutality among one another. The inhumane treatment of one another is not new, it has been dated as far back in human history as one can find. We have some of the most heinous acts of genocide and torture man can do to one another listed just in the bible itself. Is this the fault of Satan? During the middle ages cities were built as a defense against evil men and the demons, the dark ages proves that point . Most of all, we must not forget the inquisitions and purges by the Christian church. The very groups representing god and Christ done most of the evil. Are these organizations part of Satan? Who is to say! We have fears that need to be purged or as the Kabbalah suggest we must clarify the mind. Is Satan a fallen angel? Are we being tested by God? The bible says that Satan has now an earthly kingdom. If so, why has it not been seen. Most religions except the fact it is the United Nation or all governmental powers on earth is Satan's realm . Should we fear these governments? If we are a part of some universal power, I think Satan wouldn't fear revealing himself to some lowly creature as we humans. At least someone would have a picture of him other than Dante's Vision. If we are part of a cosmic struggle, and gods forces are battling evil , we have not much of a choice on what to do or if the decisions we make are correct. How can one prove we are in the right religion? One only need to research and find fault with all or most Christian, Islamic, or cult religions. Elaine Pagels says,” Satan as an evil Creature, misleading man, takes on a hidden of little known figure in the early Jewish writings”. She also says, “until the first century, Satan then takes on a more prominent position of an ambitious spirit determined to diabolically destroy mankind. We against them has been set to determine the relation to ones own group”. I find this empirical explanation sound and befitting modern religion. ***It is my observation that Christians and those of their like use evil to justify their misfortune and the unexplained. Phenomena seems to be given a simple explanation that it is from satanic origin and people with different views are influenced by Satan himself because they have opposite views. I think that man, NOT Satan, created more of the evils we now know and understand . If Satan exist, and is tempting mankind there would be some way of exposing his existence instead of the guess' work by Christian fundamentalist who say everything is evil that they don't understand. I Will end with this thought, that I believe in god, and man deserves better; however, I think more evil has been done in the name of Christ and not Satan...afraid in Sacramento

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
14:34:50
Comments
Thank you for having a place were people can go for help and comfort. I was also molested as a child,but I wasn't part of the "organization at the time" Up until the dateline show I was an unbaptized publisher in the west congregation in Corpus Christi,Texas. I'm am out of there organization forever. I got rid of all there books in my house. I am now being persecuted for it. Again, Thank you for your website and may God Bless You. Julie Villagomez My email is Juliej316

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
15:51:33
Comments
Hi Guys: It is me Claudine - I have been extremely depressed, and had the flu here, the computer was broken one day and the car the next and my birthday was yesterday - spent alone. *** I use to find some comfort with the WTS giving me all the answers (this is a big confession here)...I am struggling with not being so sure about anything. When I hear the trinity doctrine the stomach goes into knots and then I get so damn pissed off that the WTS did not have the integrity to keep their hands off the UN, protect the witnesses in Malawi, and had enough love and sense to protect innocent children. I cannot believe in hell fire or the trinity and now I can fear that maybe I will burn in hell because I don't believe the trinity! Hell of a thought! I have heard the trinity "explained" - oh my, no way and no sense at all. *** I don't feel too much in touch with God lately. I have no sure sense of "the truth" and then no way to comfort myself during these bad times I go thru. *** I had a routine of scriptures that comforted me and I went to the KH and this was some comfort. *** I feel a little lost these days. Don't want religion but do want God - and then when I pray I don't even know what God's name is anymore! That goes thru my head -I apologize to God for not knowing the correct name to use, for being so confused. I know Jehovah will straighten me out here - just going thru some stuff. But I was so sure before and trusted the WTS -as to their integrity and love for the sheep. I am pissed. Thanks for listening. *** Love Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
16:55:25
Comments
i want to weep...and help..wendy

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
17:21:46
Comments
Claudine, If it is any help, and I hope it is. It really comes down to a few things. FAITH! Love one another as you would yourself, LOVE the FATHER with all of your heart! and if there are things taught to you that are wrong, have FAITH that the FATHER will provide you with the answers! I call him the FATHER because that is what he is! When Jesus prayed to HIM, Jesus said basically, I have glorified your name. The only name Jesus ever called HIM is FATHER! Jesus also said who ever believes in me and does the will of My FATHER is also my brother, my mother and my sister! WE ARE ALL OF THE FATHERS CHILDREN, THE ONES WHO HAVE FAITH IN HIM! As a friend told me once, "And the rest is details". I was asked just last night if I prayed for my children, When I speak to my FATHER, it is not as much asking for HIS help as much as THANKING HIM FOR IT! FAITH, IT CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS! love bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
17:23:33
Comments
excuse the typo's, my baby was a pulling on my arm! :-) yeah that's my story and I'm sticking to it! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
22:21:10
Comments
Thanks Bonnielynn for the message. I have to get on track! And being thankful has always been the place for me to start - I haven't been appreciating as much as I usually do, but that is the place to begin. Thank you for reminding me. Love, CClaudine b *** Welcome Julie! - That was very bold and brave letting them know, that their policy isn't acceptable *** Buster - I think one of the things that has me depressed is what an horse's ass I have made of myself for all the insensitive, inappropriate, arrogant things I have said to my children, and to others that I cared about 0H WELL...as least I have stopped doing that . ***

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
23:48:47
Comments
Hi Claudine! HAPPY, HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY! You will remember this one all of your life. Don't worry about all the things you're unsure of. Know that God knows AND CARES about what you are going through RIGHT NOW. Confusion and all. He made you. And he LOVES you. Just as you are. Not as in, 'Well, okay, I guess if I have to...' No, but as in, "Claudine, my beautiful child! Finally you are coming home! I'm SO HAPPY! I love you. Be patient. I will be standing right here with you, for the rest of your life. You're not alone now. And you never will be. I have SO MUCH to show you! And EVERYONE. Trust me. And talk to me all the time. You'll see...Believe me. And sometimes you will hear me talking back to you, too!"

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
06:35:26
Comments
To Claudine...Boy, can I ever relate to what you said above. I've felt exactly the same way. I haven't prayed in such a long time. I believe in God, Jesus etc, but I'm been so mixed up in my head about the Trinity, Hellfire, as you said...and I just get frustrated with the whole topic. When I hear sermons at churches about the Trinity etc, my stomach turns. I start thinking, How can all these religions believe and teach the Trinity, but only the JW's say it's all wrong. How can so many religions be completely wrong on these topics? I have gotten to the point where I don't think I'll ever really know what is true and what isn't. So many years of JW indoctrination swarms in the back of my mind, that it all gets jumbled up and I just have to start thinking about something else. Happy Belated Birthday! :-) Hang in there girl. Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
08:04:13
Comments
... "I the Lord(Jehovah) SEARCH the HEART and examine the MIND, to reward a man according to his conduct, ACCORDING TO WHAT HIS DEEDS deserve." Jeremiah 17:10 ... "Then all the churches will know the *I am he* who SEARCHES HEARTS and MINDS, and I will repay each of you ACCORDING TO YOUR DEEDS. Revelation 2:23(Jesus) ...

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
09:53:26
Comments
" Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower October 1, 1967 p. 591 (Talk about loaded sentences. It is these type of incredible and dangerous claims that make an organization shy about admitting that mistakes can happen.)(Is the organization "essential for life"? Not as far as the bible is concerned.)

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:15:07
Comments
To Claudine, Linda Thoman (also SLC) ...Hi, bjc here. I have following your conversation about "trinity" and "hellfire" teachings in the churches. And how the JWs did not teach this falsehood. I too abhor such teachings too. *** I have a little information that I would like to share on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses and their unique views on "trinity", "hellfire" doctrines, also what significance these teachings hold with God and so on. I think information might shed some light on these difficult subjects, and the significance of these teachings have in God's eyes in identifying God's Name People today, Israel of today. (Although these teachings by themselves are NOT the only identifier of Israel of our times. There is more.) *** The information I have posted below is taken from the book "The Report" written by a JW back in 1994, who left the organization because of so much wrongdoing on the part of the WTS. The author does see the JWs as a people adrift, coming ever so close to outright worship of the WTS Headquarters in rank apostasy and idolatry. In his book, he addresses these concerns and others and cites bible prophecy to prove his contention. The article is lengthy, so I will print it out in three (3) part sections for your perusal. Enjoy! *** bjc2read@yahoo.com *** PART I "The Report" Volume I pages 41-63 *** --- THE REPORT book --- *** JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEASURED IN THE LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURES *** FACT: The Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation and people, are the only organized people on the face of the earth who actually carry God's Name (Jehovah) upon themselves. In fact, the teachings listed on the accompanying chart (page 64) are indeed teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. However, these merely represent fundamental truths, many of which, have been known throughout the centuries. No, these fundamental truths are not the exclusive knowledge of the Jehovah's Witnesses. No, not at all! Therefore, we ask the all-important question, namely: Does possessing these fundamental truths, by themselves, really prove that the Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization today are the True Religion of our time? No! In stead, what the Jehovah's Witnesses presently possess as a nation in the form of Bible knowledge and understanding, under the tutorship and direction of the Watchtower Society, does not measure up to the lofty Biblical description of true religion in it's complete sense. They best resemble the Jewish nation, under the tutorship of the Pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus' day! They have a "FRAMEWORK OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH", as Paul described. (See Romans 2:20.) You may remember that it was mentioned earlier in "The Report", the article God's Name People and the Framework of the Truth, the following in reference to Ancient Israel and their privilege of carrying God's Personal Name upon themselves: " ... It was the placing of this particular Name upon the Jewish nation that brought special "blessings" upon them. In fact, it was the `placing of His Name upon' ancient Israel, in itself, that made them a special people for His possession. (See Numbers 6:27.) The placing of God's Personal Name upon the Jewish nation proved to be the single most outstanding characteristic that identified them as His people, His inheritance, it identified them as being `Israel.' " There can be no question but that the privilege of being "called by God's Name" in itself made the Jewish nation, God's Name people. No people, except the 1st century congregation of Christians, were so privileged to be `called by God's Personal Name,' at least up until the year of 1931. "1931, you say...what happened in 1931?" Well, if you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses you may remember precisely what occurred in the year of 1931. PLEASE NOTE: It was in the year of 1931, that the International Bible Students then took the name upon themselves of Jehovah's Witnesses. Therefore, it is was this most important singular act, that is of placing this distinct Name — God's own Personal Name upon themselves, that actually made this people become "Israel" - modern-day "Israel" of our times. Think about it. With the appearance of the October 15th issue of the Watchtower Magazine, we find the first appearance of the Name "Jehovah" upon the cover of this particular magazine. The name itself had been resolutely adopted by a large assembly of International Bible Students, and the current President of the International Bible Students, in the previous summer of 1931 at a convention at Columbus, Ohio. Also, we notice that this particular issue of the Watchtower Magazine, October 15, 1931 in an iconoclastic fashion, removed the symbol of the "cross" from the front cover of it for the first time. The years to follow 1931 would give clear evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses had indeed become modern-day "Israel" of Bible prophecy, whether the prophecy be favorable or unfavorable. Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, in the year of 1931, entered a "covenant" with Jehovah God, just as the ancient Israelite nation did at Mount Sinai. The "covenant" or contract entered into was in the form of a resolution, adopted by the assembly of International Bible Students congregated at Columbus, Ohio, during the dates of July 24-30, 1931. This point is highlighted for us in the publication, Jehovah's Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, pg. 156, par. #2 which says: "THAT, having been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ our Lord and Redeemer, justified and begotten by Jehovah God and called to his kingdom, we unhesitatingly declare our entire allegiance and devotion to Jehovah God and his kingdom; that we are servants of Jehovah God commissioned to do a work in his name, and, in obedience to his commandment, to deliver the testimony of Jesus Christ, and to make known to the people that Jehovah is the true and Almighty God; therefore we joyfully embrace and take the name which the mouth of the Lord God has named, and we desire to be known as and called by the name, to wit, Jehovah's Witnesses. — Isa. 43:10-12" And so, we can clearly see that the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses had indeed, entered a "covenant" or contract to carry the personal Name of God. They had sworn their allegiance and obedience to this same God, the God of Jacob, by way of a public declaration and resolution. They had now taken upon themselves the responsibility that came with becoming, modern-day "Israel," of our times. And of course, Jehovah would himself, be obligated to hold them to this sworn oath of responsibility. IDENTIFYING MODERN-DAY JERUSALEM AND ISRAEL The Bible's fundamental or basic truths, as revealed in the Law Covenant given Moses, can be traced down from the nation of Israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time. Yes, these basic "truths" about God have survived for thousands of years! And how have these basic truths survived, particularly through the years since the 1st century congregation? Well, we find upon examination of the historical facts, that these fundamental truths have been maintained by small Christian groups down through the years, since the 1st century congregation of Christians. These small Christian groups, acting as "custodians of truth," formed little clusters, and were known by various names, down through the centuries. These little groups kept certain characteristics, certain similarities, that made them appear very much like ancient Israel, as well as the first century congregation, in their form of worship and have maintained a "thread of truth" right down till our day. Take for example, the Ten Commandments. The first and second commandments in particular, were often visible within the ranks of small Christian groups, down through the centuries. (Exodus 20:3,4; Deut. 6:4) These same characteristics can actually serve, in our day and time, to identify: Modern-day Israel, or Jerusalem of our times, Jehovah's Witnesses. The table below highlights these characteristics. See if you, the reader, can pick out the similarities between "Israel" of old, and modern-day "Israel" spoken of in Bible prophecy — Jehovah's Witnesses. Remember, it is the "framework of Truth" that differentiates them from all other religions upon the face of the earth today. (Romans 2:20) The following characteristics distinguish them as modern-day Israel. They are: Ancient Israel's Key Characteristics: 1) Called by God's Personal Name 2) Mono-theistic (one God concept) 3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship) Similarities with, Jehovah's Witnesses as "Israel" who are also: 1) Called by God's Personal Name 2) Mono-theistic (non-trinitarian) 3) Iconoclastic (against images) We also cannot help but notice, that the Jehovah's Witnesses have become known, the world over, for their relentless attacks upon the doctrine of the great main-line religions of our time. And this is much to their credit, make no mistake about that. Based upon the foregoing, we notice that the Jehovah's Witnesses have scripturally demonstrated the church's failure in: (a) bringing honor to God's Personal Name, Jehovah (b) propounding the error and blasphemy of the trinity doctrine (c) propounding the error and blasphemy of eternal torment in Hellfire (d) the ungodly promotion of images in worship such as the cross. Nevertheless, these beliefs mentioned above, which are presently held by Jehovah's Witnesses, are actually for the most part, consistent with the beliefs of a group of 12th century Christians called the "Albigensians." The following is a brief description taken from the publication, The Story of Civilization Volume 4, The Age of Faith (pg. 771, 772), about the "Albigensians" and their beliefs: "...Opponents describe the Albigensians as rejecting the sacraments, the Mass, the veneration of images, the Trinity ... They made the Sermon on the Mount the essence of their ethics. They were taught to love their enemies, to care for the sick and the poor, never to swear, always to keep the peace, force was never moral, even against infidels, ... one should quietly trust that in the end God would triumph over evil, without using evil means." The historical source also tells us of other valuable points such as among the "Albigensians," "There was no hell or purgatory in their theology." Further, the same source states that this particular group of Christians: " ... denied that the [Catholic] Church was the Church of Christ; St. Peter had never come to Rome, had never founded the papacy; the popes were successors to the emperors, not the apostles. Christ had no place to lay His head, but the pope lived in a palace...these lordly archbishops and bishops (of the Catholic church), these worldly priests, these fat monks, were the Pharisees of old returned to life! The Roman Church, they were sure, was the `Whore of Babylon,' the clergy were a Synagogue of Satan, the pope was Antichrist." And this same source tells us that the group disdained the Roman Catholic Church's: "... confession, holy water, the cross; they called the churches `dens of thieves,' and Catholic priests seemed to them `traitors, liars, and hypocrites.'" Again, the facts according to the source: "The Story of Civilization," the "Albigensians," 1) disbelieved the trinity 2) were against giving veneration to images 3) did not believe in hellfire nor purgatory 4) were taught to love their enemies, keep the peace at all cost 5) taught that the Catholic Church was the "Whore of Babylon." 6) taught the Clergy was the Synagogue of Satan. 7) disdained "holy water" and "confession" 8) were totally against the "cross" 9) called the church a "den of thieves," and 10) called the Catholic priests "traitors," "liars," and "hypocrites." Now, we ask: Among religions today, which one does this sound most like? You know the answer, is that not so? If you have spent anytime studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses or if you are yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you indeed, know the answer. There can be no question but that there is a distinct and clear similarity in the religious convictions with this particular group, and the beliefs and convictions of Jehovah's Witnesses today. No, we are not trying to say that these early groups had the exact same beliefs on every single doctrine. We realize that during the years following the demise of the 1st century congregation, under the direction of the apostles, many superstitions and false beliefs surfaced among professed Christians. No doubt, it was a great struggle for these small groups to maintain any standard of faith in the face of the overwhelming odds against them. But the point we are making is that their beliefs are quite similar, if one would take the time to analyze the evidence. Therefore, the evidence proves that many fundamental teachings that Jehovah's Witnesses presently believe, did not actually originate with Charles Taze Russell as some believe, but were beliefs previously held by Christian groups such as the Arians, Waldenses, Lollards, Albigensians, Annabaptists, early Unitarians and numerous other groups of Christians for centuries. Yes, there is a common thread of truth that has been maintained down throughout the years since Jesus. But remember, these truths only represent the "framework of Truth." However, the great "sacred secrets" or "mysteries" [Greek: mysterions] of the Bible would continue to be held in secret until the "time of the end." (Daniel 12:4,9) To be sure, as Jesus said at John 16:13, the day would come when the following would be true: "However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming." Yes, God's people could one day look forward to the time when the "spirit of truth" would "guide them" into "all" of the "truth" — beyond simply the "framework of truth," but "all" of the "truth." THE "CHILD-LEADER" FOR THE NATION OF ISRAEL Paul described the level of "truth" possessed by the Jewish nation during his day by saying: "If, now, you are a Jew in name and are resting upon law and taking pride in God, and you know his will and approve of things that are excellent because you are orally instructed out of the Law; and you are persuaded that you are a guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of babes, and having the framework of the knowledge and of the truth in the Law." Yes, Paul states that even though the Jewish people were "persuaded," (no doubt by their leaders) that they were provided by God as a "guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of unreasonable ones, teachers of babes," — what they merely possessed was only a "framework" or superstructure of "knowledge" and "truth," which was based upon the "Law covenant" handed down by Moses. No, the Jewish nation did not have the complete picture. The "Law" was to merely act as a "tutor," until the Christ arrived. (Galatians 3:24) The Greek word Paul employs for "framework" is mor'pho-sin which literally means a "form" or outline of something. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance describes the word as meaning a "formation," or "appearance" or "semblance" of something. Vines Expository of New Testament Words states that the word morphosis means: "a form or outline, denotes ... an image or impress, an outward semblance of knowledge of the truth." And again, what had given this "form," "outline" or "outward semblance of knowledge of the truth" to the Jewish nation? Paul again answers by saying it was the "Law" of Moses, as the Jews understood it. Let's notice what Paul said about it at Galatians 3:24 which says: "Consequently the Law has become our tutor [Greek: pedagogue] leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith." We notice from what Paul states here that the "Law" given by Moses, actually became a "tutor" or literally a "child-leader" for the nation. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance describes the Greek word for "tutor" [pedagogue] as meaning: "a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school." Yes, the "tutor's" primary function was to simply "take the children to school," and that is all. No, he was not the primary instructor of the children at all. Vines Expository makes additional comments on this word by saying: "...the idea of instruction is absent. In this and allied words the idea is that of training, discipline, not of impartation of knowledge. The paidagogos was not the instructor of the child; he exercised a general supervision over him and was responsible for his moral and physical well-being. Thus understood, paidagogos is appropriately used with `kept in ward' and `shut up,' whereas, to understand it as equivalent to `teacher,' introduces an idea entirely foreign to the passage..." Therefore, if by chance, the national leaders got carried away somehow, and begin to feel that they had all the instruction they needed to teach the people, the results would be disastrous. Further, if the religious leaders began to feel as if they themselves should be the final word on all religious matters, they would have gotten far away from their assignment of using the "law" as a "child-leader," or "tutor" for the nation until the Messiah came. Certainly, the religious leaders would have gone far off the track if they began to give too much credence to their particular understanding and interpretation of what the "Law" Covenant really meant for the Jewish nation, before the promised Messiah arrived on the scene. And of course, this is precisely what happened to the Jewish nation whose leaders began to think of themselves as having more than a mere "framework of knowledge of truth." According to Paul, what the Jewish nation actually possessed was simply enough to `take them to school,' but since Jesus Christ was the actual "teacher," or "instructor," his teachings were much more advanced, accurate, and to the point, than what people of his day had ever experienced. So, when Jesus came to the nation of Israel, what did he find? Did he not find the nation being led by an unscriptural council of 71 men called the "Sanhedrin." Yes, that's exactly what he found. The "Sanhedrin" was totally, an unscriptural arrangement, nowhere to be found in the "Law" at all. The Sanhedrin was made up of "Sadducees," "Pharisees" and "scribes," and there can be no question that among them there existed a serious lack of "knowledge" since the Bible tells us that it was these leaders who led the way in ultimately rejecting Christ's teachings. It was primarily these individuals who by their leadership caused the nation to lose their relationship with Jehovah God, was it not? The Sanhedrin was presided over by the Sadducee High Priest Caiaphas, and the Bible tells us this revealing information about the Sadducees at Acts 23:8: "For Sadducees say there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees publicly declare them all." No, the Sadducees did not believe in God's power of "resurrection," of "angels," nor of "spirit." This was because the Sadducees did not believe any part of the Hebrew text but the writings of Moses, the first five books of the Bible. Think of the implications of what this means. This would mean that the entire Jewish nation was led in worship by a High Priest who did not have faith in the holy writings of Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel. No, he did not believe in the Bible's accounts of Elijah and Elisha's resurrection of the dead. And yet, he was the spiritual leader of the nation when Jesus arrived on the scene. And were the Pharisees any better? No, Josephus, the Jewish historian who at one time described himself as a Pharisee, according to Harper's Bible Dictionary reports: "They [Pharisees] believed that the soul survives death and is punished or rewarded with another life." — pg. 783 Clearly, the Pharisees were influenced by false pagan teachings of Greek philosophers, prevalent during such time. And yet, this is what they believed. This is what they taught. There can be no question but that the nation of Israel, under the leadership of the Sadducees and Pharisees, had strayed a long way away from the "truth," as we know it today. However, we remember, Paul states at Romans 2:20, the nation still had the "Law," the "tutor," the "child-leader" that was to assist them, that was to lead them to the Christ. Yes, they had the "semblance," the "outline," the "framework of the knowledge of the truth." That's what they had. And that was enough or sufficient from Jehovah's standpoint, to bring them as a nation, to the Christ, their final instructor. Therefore, just as the Jewish nation had the teachings of the "Law" covenant that would act as a "tutor" leading to the Christ, so also the "framework of truth" down through the centuries would also act as a "tutor," "child-leader," until God's time to reveal the "sacred secrets" of the Bible. (Galatians 3:24) Remember, these are only the ABC's of religious truth, you might say. The Jehovah's Witnesses revived many of these teachings during the time of C.T. Russell in the early 1870's, but have progressed no farther. Nevertheless, these basic truths have served to make the Witnesses as a people separate, distinct, different from all the other forms of worship on earth today. These truths, coupled with being "called by God's Name," really make them Modern-day "ISRAEL." *** End of Part I -- "The Report" *** EMC Publications PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com *** bjc ***

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:22:13
Comments
To: Claudine, Linda Thoman, (& SLC) *** "The Report" part II - pages 41-63 *** PROPHECY — FAR BEYOND FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS *** However, many of their present and supposedly more advanced doctrinal beliefs, strictly formulated by the Watchtower Society on the more deeper matters of prophecy, are incorrect and cannot be Biblically substantiated. And this in turn, automatically makes for an elementary education of the scripture for the rank and file Jehovah's Witness. In our examination of the Watchtower Society's teachings, we stress prophecy here, since the average Jehovah's Witness, due to the Society's teaching, sees all unfavorable prophecy pertaining to "Israel" or "Jerusalem" as applying to the churches of Christendom and/or pagandom. Let's notice this comment from the publication Insight On the Scriptures under the subject of "Unfaithful Jerusalem." It states: "Since much that is said concerning Jerusalem in the Scriptures is in condemnation of her, it is clear that only when faithful did Jerusalem symbolize Jehovah's heavenly organization and, at times, the true Christian congregation, `the Israel of God.' (Ga 6:16) When unfaithful, it was pictured as a prostitute and an adulterous woman; it became like the pagan Amorites and Hittites that once controlled the city. (Eze 16:3, 15, 30-42) As such, it could only represent apostates, those following a `prostitute' course of infidelity to the God whose name they claim to bear. — Jas 4:4" Now, let's pay close attention to the main point of their explanation. It says: "It can thus be seen that `Jerusalem' is used in a multiple sense, and the context must in each case be considered to gain correct understanding." — Vol. II. pg. 49 CHECKING THE CONTEXT? And so, the Watchtower Society says that we can determine whom "Jerusalem" represents by the surrounding context of scriptures. However, in the case of the scriptural example they cited as proof, namely Eze 16:3, 15, 30-42, did the Watchtower Society themselves check the context here? Evidently they didn't because notice what verses 59-62 of the same chapter says about the `prostituting, adulterous woman:' "For this is what the Lord Jehovah has said, `I also must do with you just as you have done, because you despised the oath in breaking [my] covenant. And I, I myself, must remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I must establish for you an indefinitely lasting covenant... And you will certainly remember your ways and feel humiliated ... And I, I myself , will establish my covenant with you; and you will have to know that I am Jehovah, in order that you may remember and actually be ashamed and you may no more come to have any reason to open [your] mouth because of your humiliation, when I make an atonement for you for all that you have done,' is the utterance of the Lord Jehovah." Did you notice that the same `adulterous, prostitute woman' is now spoken of as being given an "indefinitely lasting covenant?" And did you also notice that the sins of this same `Hittite, Amorite-like woman' is now being `atoned' for by Jehovah? And further, once she has been `atoned' for, she can now regain her good standing with Jehovah, the kind of standing she had with Him in the beginning. As Jehovah said: "I must remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth." Clearly, this "adulterous woman" is now being RESTORED to Jehovah's favor! That point is crystal clear, isn't it? And so we can see that if an individual were to do exactly as suggested by the Society he he would find that the same "woman" spoken of as an "adulterous," "Hittite," and "Amorite," is also the same "woman" that is to be `atoned for' and subsequently receives an "indefinitely lasting covenant." Now, does that sound like the religions of Pagandom and/or Christendom to you? Again, let's keep in mind what the Society actually said was their definition as to how one can `correctly understand' the verses in question. Yes, we want to be able to correctly identify modern-day "Jerusalem" in these prophecies, right? The Watchtower Society says: If it's good, then "Jerusalem" [or Israel] represents God's people. And, if the context indicates bad, it merely represents false worshippers, "apostates," or "prostitute" "pagan nations" — in other words, Christendom and/or Pagandom. However, as you have just observed, what do we conclude if the context of prophecy shows both good and bad for the same said "Jerusalem" [or Israel]? Remember, in many, many passages, if we really examine the entire context of the verses considered, we see that the same "Jerusalem" that is spoken of in an unfavorable light, is later spoken of as having received "restoration" by the hand of God! Now, how do we explain that? Also, many prophecies demonstrate that the same "Jerusalem" [or Israel] who previously had a good standing before Him, later embark upon an unrepentant course of sin and are the very ones that ultimately bring on an estranged relationship with God, and finally become the recipients of severe discipline from His hand! And finally, it is from this "Lo-ammi" or disowned state, that they [Israel] have to be "restored." (Hosea 1:8, 9) Think about it. Let's reason upon this: It would certainly make more sense to believe that these prophecies could only apply to one "Jerusalem," one people, Jehovah's Witnesses — the true "Israel of God." Really, the only people, who have the real capacity to `leave the Holy Covenant' are the people who are in the "Holy Covenant" with Him, right? (Daniel 11:30) And Jehovah's Witnesses say that they are the only people, truly, in the "New Covenant" with Jehovah, right? For remember, Christendom is not in any "Holy Covenant" with Jehovah God whatsoever, are they? Now, doesn't that make more sense, when you really, really think about it. What is more, the "Israel" in question mentioned in prophecy could only represent, and we repeat only represent, the "Israel of God" that has been "covenanted" to Him in marriage. (See Isaiah 54:5-8.) Furthermore, contrary to what the Watchtower Society says, Christendom has never "claimed to bear" God's Personal Name, Jehovah. They completely avoid the use of His Name today, as they have for centuries! Therefore, Christendom could not in any way, shape or form fit the Biblical description of "Israel," since they are: (a) trinitarian, (b) lovers of icon or image worship, and (c) quite simply HATE the Personal Name of God, Jehovah. Therefore, how could Christendom, or any religion of pagandom really represent the "Israel of God," spoken of prophetically in scripture. That would simply be an IMPOSSIBILITY. Think about it. To further this thought, let's take another excellent example in Isaiah 2:1-9. The Jehovah's Witnesses have all been taught that verses 1-4 have application upon themselves, in their present state of increase, in our day and time. But have you ever read the remaining 5 verses in context. Let's notice these: "O men of the house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of Jehovah." "For you have forsaken your people, the house of Jacob. For they have become full of what is from the East, and they are practicers of magic like the Philistines, and with the children of foreigners they abound. And their land is filled with silver and gold, and there is no limit to their treasures. And their land is filled with horses, and there is no limit to their chariots. And their land is filled with worthless gods. To the work of one's hands they bow down, to that which one's fingers have made. And earthling man bows down, and man becomes low, and you cannot possibly pardon them." Now keep in mind, that the Watchtower Society has never explained the remaining five verses in their publications, namely verses 5 - 9, which shows us that the same "Jacob" [or Israel], who in verses 1-4 has great increase and people streaming to Jehovah's Mountain, in these verses are spoken of as being polluted, and completely unclean before Jehovah in these same "last days." Now, how could "Israel" picture God's people [Jehovah's Witnesses] in the first 4 verses, and someone else [like Christendom] in the remaining 5 verses? And what's more, the prophecy shows that those who refuse the invitation to `come and walk in the light,' away from such a bad environment, will ultimately lose his favor totally! And so we can see that the Jehovah's Witnesses as a people will be faced with a grave situation in the very near future, according to PROPHECY! Think about it. However, keep in mind, that this is not to suggest that there are no discerning ones among them. To the contrary, no doubt, there may be many who are searching the scriptures because they have many, many questions concerning what is being taught them by the Watchtower Society. Neither, is this said to imply that there are none who are sincere among them either. No, because prophecy clearly indicates that many from among the family of Jehovah's Witnesses will prevail in the end. Daniel 11:32-35 clearly indicates this fact! No, but what we are saying is that, the Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole, have not matured as a people or nation, spiritually speaking, the same as the Jewish nation is Jesus' day. Therefore, they correspond perfectly, in almost every detail and way, to the Jewish nation of Jesus' day under the Pharisees and Sadducees. And by so corresponding, they fulfill many, many prophecies, spoken of in the Prophetic books of the Bible concerning "Israel," God's people of our time. And the essay or dissertation called: "THE REPORT" has been written to demonstrate such fulfillment among Jehovah's Witnesses of our time. — Hebrews 6:1,2; Matthew 9:36; Ezekiel 21:7 This same lack of spiritual progress will ultimately cause them to fail, again according to prophecy, as a light-bearing organization according to the standard set by Jesus Christ himself, our exemplar. And this will be despite the fact that they now carry the Name of God, Jehovah, upon themselves. Remember: it is this Name that has set them apart from all other religions. And, on the other hand, it is this same Name that carries with it grave responsibilities as we have seen. Yes, Jehovah's people must live up to that Name! — See Deuteronomy 28:58-62. "COMMANDMENTS OF MEN" STUMBLES NATION Well, remember Jesus told the Pharisees what was really wrong with their worship by saying as recorded at Matthew 15:9: "It is in vain that they worship me [Jehovah] because they teach as doctrines the COMMANDMENT OF MEN." Did you notice that the teaching of `commandments of men' could result in the worship of the entire nation being subsequently aborted, rendered "in vain," even? Yes, the Jewish leaders had rendered the people's worship in "vain" because of teaching "commandments of men." This is very displeasing to Jehovah God. These "teachings of men" are viewed by Jehovah as "leaven" that corrupts the entire nation. (Matthew 16:12; 1 Corinthians 5:6) By teaching the "commandments of men," the Pharisees could control the people and make them think what they wanted them to think. The people were thus following the "commandments of men" and not the commandments of God, involving themselves in IDOLATRY, creature worship even, which is very offensive to Jehovah. And we know that Jehovah will not tolerate, nor except such worship, even if it is given in His name! The same thing is happening today among the Jehovah's Witnesses under the direction of the Watchtower Society as teachers. Think about it. Therefore, remember, "You must not have any god before my face." (Exodus 20:3) Also: "I will not share my glory with anyone." — Isaiah 42:8. Oh, the Watchtower Society projects the image that they understand completely, that is, the prophecies of the Bible, even in detail. But the facts reveal, they do not and are actually very confused in their teachings and doctrines on the "deeper things of God." (1 Cor. 2:10) Furthermore, some Jehovah's Witnesses have become enthusiastic advocates of the Watchtower Society — religious fanatics, if you will, like Paul was in the beginning, and may not even be aware of it. These extremists, are in fact, actually following the teachings or "commandments of men" — The Watchtower Society, not God's Word on all matters. Many of these are "elders" in the congregation. (Mark 7:7,8) In more recent years, it has been noticed, that newer policies and procedures have been added, that we believe, will produce in the end, a cult of MINDLESS FOLLOWERS who operate and carry out their "sacred service" independent of inspired thought from God's Word the Bible! These individuals may become dangerous in the end, again, according to prophecy. (See Matthew 24:9-12; John 16:2.) Remember, all of this has been prophesied in scripture. Hard to believe? Well, all one has to do is make a close examination of the teachings and policies of the Jehovah's Witnesses and this startling fact will become quite clear. The dissertation called "THE REPORT", based upon Ezekiel 21:7, is designed to reveal these facts. *** End of Part II "The Report" Volume I *** EMC Publications PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com *** bjc ***

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Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:24:17
Comments
To Claundine, Linda Thoman (& SLC) *** Part III. -- "The Report" pgs 41-63 *** DISTRESS FOR THE NATION FORETOLD *** Jeremiah 30:7 foretold great "distress" for God's Name people in the last days by saying: "Alas! For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like it, and it is the time of distress for Jacob. But he will be saved even out of it." — New World Translation Yes, as mentioned earlier, Bible prophecy indicates that the Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation will be decimated of population, (like the Jewish nation), with only a remnant left of the nation to continue true worship because of sin and transgression against Jehovah's Law! Yes, and because of such sin, a distinct separation will occur in the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. Yes, the "stick of Judah" will separate from the "stick of Joseph." And yet, after a period of discipline, they will indeed, come back together again. Please carefully consider the following scriptural citations and these points will become quite visible: 1) Isaiah 11:12, 13 2) Ezekiel 37:15-23 3) Hosea 1:11 4) Zechariah 11:14 5) Jeremiah 30:1-3 However, during the interim of the same said separation, Jehovah will strike His people in the form of "severe" discipline. And then, after severe "trampling" as the scriptures indicate, this discipline is to be followed by intense light of "understanding" from Jehovah God concerning their transgressions against Him. Yes, they will then come to "understand" that `all the prophets' pointed forward to this day of discipline for the Christian congregation. — Revelation 12:6,14; Acts 3:21 Isaiah 30:26 puts it this way by saying: "And the light of the full moon must become as the light of the glowing [sun]; and the very light of the glowing [sun] will become seven times as much, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke BY HIM." Also Jeremiah 23:19,20 which says: "Look! a windstorm of Jehovah, rage itself, has gone forth, an onward-sweeping tempest. Upon the head of the wicked ones it will whirl. The burning anger of Jehovah will not turn back until he will have carried out and until he will have made the ideas of his heart come true. In the final part of the days you people [Israel] will give your consideration to it with understanding. — See also Jeremiah 30:23, 24. Make no mistake, Jehovah is going to discipline His people "Israel" (Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation) — in the most "severe" way. And yet, happily in the end, a core of true worshippers taken from the Jehovah's Witnesses will be eventually made into a "strong nation" with the help and assistance of others, who are onlookers of these Biblical events of the future. Hard to believe? Again, let's notice what Micah 4:6,7 prophetically says of the future for God's people: "In that day, says the LORD [JEHOVAH], I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted. The lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD [JEHOVAH] will reign over them in Mount Zion now and forevermore." — Oxford Annotated Bible EXILE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES — WHEN? Now, we may remember that the Watchtower Society has taught for some time that first Jesus Christ began his reign over God's people in 1914 and then, Jehovah God allowed His people, Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation, to go off into in "exile," that is into "Babylon" during the years of 1918-19. (See July 1 Watchtower 1982 pg. 24, 25.) However, as you have just read in the above scripture, the exile of God's people actually comes BEFORE Jehovah begins His reign over His people. Yes, before His glorious reign. And that "reign" is to last "forevermore," or as the New World Translation says: till "time indefinite." Yes, Jehovah's rule over His people will never cease, but it comes only after His people, Jehovah's Witnesses, first go off into exile, away from Jehovah's face. That's what the scriptures indicate. Therefore, we can see that the Watchtower Society has reversed the order of events. Yes, they have placed Christ coming into Kingdom power in the year of 1914, and the exile of his people coming after that. Whereas, the scripture clearly states that the exile precedes Jehovah God's reign (in the hands of Jesus) over his people, the Watchtower Society has reversed these events to accommodate their doctrine of 1914. Their understanding on this matter is clearly incorrect, and Micah 4:6,7 proves it. Also, Isaiah 49:19-21 speaks prophetically of God's people after being disciplined: "Though you were ruined and made desolate and your land laid waste, now you will be too small for your people, and those who devoured you will be far away. The children born during your bereavement will yet say in your hearing, `this place is too small for us;' Then you will say in your heart, `Who bore me these? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up? I was left all alone, but these — where have they come from?'" — New International Version; See also Isaiah 65:1; Romans 11:25, 26. Now this really brings us to the heart of our position as EMC Publications. This point brings us full circle since it tells the entire story about Jehovah's Witnesses and their future destiny under the direction of the Watchtower Society. For years now our message as stated has been the following: "Jehovah's Witnesses, as modern-day `Israel' — destined to fall and be restored." Yes, we believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are destined to "fall," under the leadership of the Watchtower Society, and yet, they will later be regrouped, "restored," according to Bible prophecy. The wickedness we see prevalent today among the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses can no doubt be largely attributed to the leadership of the organization, the Watchtower Society. Therefore, rather than completely destroy the entire nation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Jehovah chooses to "discipline" the nation, or people, to bring a "remnant" to their senses. However, we feel, the Watchtower Society and it's Governing Body, as a corporate structure, will receive a very, special punishment — utter destruction! That too will be explained in detail, scripturally, in "THE REPORT" document. Although Jehovah God could exercise his Almighty power to destroy the entire nation of Jehovah's Witnesses from the face of the earth with one swipe according to Malachi 4:5, 6 — nevertheless, in His mercy, and "loyalty" to His promises, His Name and "covenant" with them, He chooses to exercise certain provisions within His contract with the nation, much like the ones Solomon spoke of as found at 1 Kings 8:46-50 which says: "In case they [Israel] sin against you [Jehovah] (for there is no man that does not sin), and you have to be incensed at them and abandon them to the enemy, and their captors actually carry them off captive to the land