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July 2002 Guestbook
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Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
01:04:41
Comments
Linda, Where did you get the 4th edition of Crisis of Conscience?
All I could find was the 3rd edition. Age00
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
02:36:52
Comments
I want to say Thank You! so much for this site. I too have
an awful story of abuse during my childhood growing up as
a Witness. I'm sad to say one of the responsible ones is an
elder in the same cong. today! I am so glad there is finally
a place for victims to feel support after having to stay in
the "closet" for so many years. If the news media
only knew the half of what is and what has gone on for many
years it would fill a month's worth of programming. I truly
feel that there is an uprising on the way. You can only keep
people in the dark and feeding them $%^$ for so long before
they revolt. When they do revolt it will be the cleansing
that has been needed for 100 years. Then the protectors of
the pedophiles can start their own society and leave the true
believers to worship in the way that is pure and right. It
is wonderful that there is going to be a march on the headquarters
in Sept. I would love to be there and join the others with
a like story. I have never been a beggar but I think this
is worth asking. I was disabled about 10 years ago and only
have a small Social Security check every month to exist. I
want to be in the march in Sept but don't have any way financially
to do it. If there are any others who could help me get to
the march I would be eternally grateful. If by some chance
I don't have enough to get there I will return every dime
back to those who gave. If you can help in any way please
contact me. If nothing else meeting others with a like past
would pump us both up. I look forward to hearing from any
and all. Thank you K Henderson khenderson@lionco.com
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
02:40:00
Comments
To Linda Thoman: Yes Linda, I noticed I forgot the Y of YOUR
engagement, but it was too late. I had hit the button! I was
thinking about writing it again, but I figured you would understand!!!!;-))
So again ... CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR ENGAGEMENT!!!!! Europe
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
06:47:38
Comments
K, I think you have everything right except that it's not
going to be the pedophiles and their supporters who 'leave
and start their own group'. I think the people here are going
to have to do that. Good luck on your trip.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
08:48:29
Comments
Re Your Comment: --- We speak openly amongst ourselves, amongst
our friends, family, parish, to our priests and others. ---
This, in my opinion, is a very telling statement. You talk
among yourselves -- not publicly as this web site does.
You're going on the assumption that I don't know Catholics.
I've known them in several different states and countries
for 50+ years, including one woman who was taken sexual advantage
of by her priest when she went to him in mental and emotional
distress over her marriage. However, that was in the very
early 1970's and I lost contact with her. She confided in
me but was terrified about my telling anyone else, so I promised
I wouldn't and didn't. From what I saw on a program the Public
TV Station, this is an uncommon occurrence within the Catholic
Church but, being that it's girls and women and it's the common
belief that girls and women "ask for it" (that's
what they said on the TV program), there is a lack of the
critical attention this heterosexual abuse requires. You're
trying to make it look as though Catholics don't have any
problems because they speak freely and that just simply is
not true. YOU may have an experience or circumstance or group
that gives you opportunity to speak freely but that does not
mean that it is true for the vast majority of Catholics. There
are plenty of people -- of your and other religions -- that
wouldn't speak against their religious organization and they,
over time, also suffer the mental, emotional and physical
difficulties that anyone would suffer for keeping important
issues bottled up inside of them. The issues may not be important
to anyone else but they are important to that person. I think
it's terrible that a person would not have an understanding
ear, even if it's an issue only relevant to themselves. I
don't need to come to this web site to speak freely. However,
the very fact that JWs and former JWs DO talk openly and PUBLICLY
is, in itself, commendable -- not shameful. The irony of this
is that it leads YOU and others like you to think that there
is a very disproportionate problem among JWs that does not
exist in any other religion, including Catholics. This, frankly,
is just not true. It's also very unrealistic. All the people
in this whole world are subject to sin. There are too many
influences to encourage gross sin and heinous acts against
one another. Many people are guilty of hurting one or more
people, including sexual abuse. They even have laws against
husbands raping their wives! Who are you trying to kid? JWs,
through their publications, are trying to help people to be
AWARE of these pitfalls, to help them recognize people and
situations and to act appropriately in these situations, even
within their own organization. I, personally, do not make
excuses for wrongdoing, however, I know that no matter what
label one chooses to pin on themselves, there are some things
that a "label" won't change -- each person's own,
personal internal makeup. The person, herself or himself,
has to work on making those changes. The Catholic Church hides
even criminals within the walls of their churches and refuses
to turn them over to law enforcement authorities. It's called "sanctuary".
Priest's will refuse to reveal the identity of those who confess
to them of serious crimes because of Priest/Confessor Privilege.
Therefore, even when they know they can help a police investigation
and even when they're asked by the authorities to help them
by giving them the name and location of the criminal, they
won't divulge that information. It appears that is true even
when an innocent man or woman is in jail and charged with
a crime the priest knows was committed by someone else. This
is COMMON KNOWLEDGE. So, please, don't get on your self-righteousness
bravado and act like everything is so much better in the Catholic
Church or any other church. The Catholic Church has had CENTURIES
to correct the problems in their church. When the Bible is
very clear in what it teaches in the areas of morality, why
would it take CENTURIES for the Catholic Church to FINALLY
look at the problem? It appears to have taken police investigations,
court cases and bad publicity that brought these problems
out in the open to the point where the Catholic Church couldn't
ignore the problem anymore -- and that's only priests molesting
boys. They haven't done anything about the sexual abuse of
girls and women yet. We're all a bunch of scum bags (even
if we live "good" lives, there isn't one of us that
is perfect) in the eyes of the one and only true God and it's
ONLY by Christ's ransom sacrifice and his perpetual pleading
before his father in the heavens that ANY of us have a chance
before the almighty God. Personally, I do not believe that
there is ANYONE that has more honest and open dialog than
JWs -- even now. Dateline said it 2 times -- JWs are the ONLY
religion that has a judicial system in place within its organization.
The only thing that has been proved is that the JW's judicial
system fails people sometimes the same as man's secular judicial
systems do. That's not giving my approval or making an excuse
for the failures in the JW or secular judicial systems. However,
I'm positive that the JW judicial system will be "cleaned
up" a lot better and sooner than the world's secular
judicial systems. No, JWs are not repressed. They're, for
the most part, very honest people. You don't see anyone trying
to shut down this or any other web site by JWs. However, it
would be interesting to see what would happen in other religions
if people were writing as they do here -- where the WHOLE
WORLD that wants to can also be privy to it. Since there really
are not any web sites like this one for any other religion
where ANYONE can access, there's no way to know what the individual
church's reactions would be. Therefore, your arguing ANYTHING
in this matter is mute.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
09:34:52
Comments
DID EVERYONE GET BILL'S E-MAIL???????? He mentioned another
suit being filed Tues. and he will be at the press conference.
I too will be there. I will give him a hug for everyone!!!!!!
I can't say where it will be at this time, I am sure everyone
understands why. I love you all--keep talking, we can make
a difference!!!!!!!! Love Jesika Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
09:51:36
Comments
BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE - OCTOBER 29, 1911 on C. T. Russell's
Scandal GIRL KISSED PASTOR AND SAT ON HIS KNEE But Mr. Russell
at the Tabernacle: Only Submitted to it to be Kind. MAY HAVE
FELT HER PULSE He Sometimes Ministered to the Sick, Locked
in Another Girls Room Innocently. (Special to The Eagle) BROOKLYN
DAILY EAGLE - OCTOBER 29, 1911 Pittsburgh, October 27 - The
suit for a separation brought by Martha (sic)F. Russell against
Charles Taze Russell, her husband, popularly known as Pastor
Russell, who has just entered a libel suit against The Brooklyn
Eagle, is remembered here as one of the most sensational court
proceedings in the history of Allegheny County. Pastor Russell's
Advertising methods had already attracted a good deal of attention
to himself, and while many referred to him as "the crank
preacher of Allegheny," his unusual lectures and effective
publicity methods drew good-sized crowds to his Bible House
on Arch Street. When the fact that Pastor Russell's wife was
suing him for a separation became public much general interest
was aroused and the courtroom was thronged during the proceedings.
The testimony which elicited the most comment concerned the
relations of Pastor Russell with Rose Ball, a young woman
stenographer employed by Pastor Russell in the Bible House
on Arch Street. This testimony was given by Mrs. Russell on
direct examination on Thursday, April 26, 1906. It was ruled
out by the court on the ground that the incidents to which
reference was made were said to have occurred on a date which
precedes the dates mentioned in Mrs. Russell's bill of complaint.
Pastor Russell recurred to the incidents when he went on the
stand several days later, and gave his version of what had
happened. Rose Ball was not called to the stand, as she left
for Australia shortly before the case came to trial. The verbatim
record of this testimony taken from the official report of
the case on file in the office of the Prothonotary of Allegheny
County is as follows: Q. I want you to tell us what your husband
did in company with this woman Rose, in your presence and
in your home. A. In the first place I considered it--(objected
to and witness was not permitted to finish.) Q. Tell us what
you saw and what he said was done. A. One evening he spent
the evening downstairs and our library and bedroom were next
to each other upstairs on the second floor, and I spent the
evening downstairs reading, and I went upstairs about 10 o'clock
to my room, and I supposed that: he was either in the library
or had retired, and when I went up there I found that he was
in neither place, and I stepped out in the hall, and I found
that he was in his night robe, sitting beside Miss Ball's
bed and she was in bed. On other occasions I found him going
in there and I found she called him in and said she wasn't
well and wanted him in, and I objected to this, and I said
that it was highly improper, and I said: "We have people
about the house, and what kind of a name will be attached
in this house if you do that sort of thing?" and he got
angry. Pastor's Wife Tells of His Alleged Nightly Visits Q.
You state that you found him doing this at other times. How
often after that? A. I found him a number of times; I don't
remember how often. Q. In her room? A. Yes, sir. And I found
him in the servant girl's room as well. and I found him locked
in the servant girl's room. Q. Did he make any explanation
why he was in the girl's room? A. No. He did not; he just
got angry. Q. What did you say to him about this conduct and
what did he say. A. I said to him, "We have a great work
on our hands," and I said, "In this work you and
I have to walk very circumspectly before the world and if
you are going to do things like this, what will happen? Suppose
you are all right, don't you suppose people will talk about
things like this?" and I said, "I am not satisfied
with it," and he said he wasn't going to be ruled by
me. But I felt distressed about that. Q. What did Rose do
at the Watch Tower. A. She attended to the correspondence.
Q. Where was her desk with reference to the desk of Mr. Russell
of the Watch Tower Society? A. It wasn't near his; it was
in the office. Q. When would he go to the Watch Tower, in
the morning? A. I don't remember; he generally went down alone.
Q. Who would return with him? A. She came with him in the
evening and they came about 11 o'clock and the young men that
were in the office -- she was the only girl, and the young
men would go home, and he wouldn't allow her to go home with
them, and she must wait and always go with him. (Objected
to.) Q. I want the mere fact, did this girl Rose go home with
your husband? A. Yes, Sir. Q. What year was that? A. In the
fall of 1894. (By Mr. Porter, attorney for the plaintiff.)
Q. Did you state to your husband at this meeting any endearing
terms? A. Yes, sir. Q. What were they? A. I said "She
tells me that one evening you came home --" I asked her
when did these things occur. I said to him, "She says
they occurred down at the office when she stayed down there
with him in the evening after the rest had gone, and at home
at any time when I wasn't around." Q. Now, about the
endearing terms? A. She said one evening when she came home
with him, just as she got inside the hall, it was late in
the evening, about 11 o'clock, he put his arms around her
and kissed her. This was in the vestibule before they entered
the hall, and he called her his little wife, but she said "I
am not your wife." and he said "I will call you
daughter, and a daughter has nearly all the privileges of
a wife." Q. What other terms were used? A. Then he said, "I
am like a jellyfish. I float around here and there. I touch
this one and that one, and if she responds I take her to me,
and if not, I float on to others"; and she wrote that
out so that I could remember it for sure when I would speak
to him about it. And he confessed that he said those things.
Q. And the young men came home ahead of them? A. Yes, sir.
Q. State to the court and jury what talk, if any, you had
with this girl Rose, in regard to her relations with your
husband, which you communicated to your husband? This question
was objected to and it was changed to read as follows: Q.
You are to tell what you stated to your husband that Rose
had said and his reply to you. Mrs. Russell Says Girl Told
Her of Pastor's Caresses. A. I told him that I had learned
something that was very serious and I didn't tell him right
away. I let a day elapse until I felt I had control of myself
and could talk and then I told him that I had something very
serious to tell him about this matter, and he said, "What
is it?" and I said, "Rose has told me that you have
been intimate with her, that you have been in the habit of
hugging and kissing her and having her sit on your knee and
fondling each other, and she tells me you bid her under no
account to tell me, but she couldn't keep it any longer. She
said if I was distressed about it she felt that she would
have to come and make a confession to me, and she has done
that. (By the court.) Q. What did he say? A. He tried to make
light of it at first and I said, "Husband, you can't
do that. I know the whole thing. She has told me straight
and I know it to be true." Well, he said he was sorry;
it was true, but he was sorry. He said he didn't mean any
harm. I said, "I don't see how you could do an act like
that without meaning harm." Linda Thoman Linthoman0705@aol.com
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
09:54:38
Comments
To those interested in buying Crisis of Conscience 4th Edition ...go
here: http://www.freeminds.org/sales/books.htm Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
10:36:08
Comments
I just read a posting from a person who was upset with dateline,
this website and Bill. One comment was the damage that
Bill has done to the 6 million Witnesses can probably never
be undone. Question dear poster: Do you not understand that
Bill tried internally to deal with this problem but only received
roadblocks from the Society? Do you not understand that the
victims are you and the abused because the society DIDN'T
DO A THING TO SOLVE THIS, but was more concerned with coverup?
We see here a typical member also not dealing with the issue
and likewise concerned about protecting the Watchtower Corporation.
Did it ever occur to you that this may be a sign from Jehovah
saying to people put your trust in me instead of these self
proclaimed spokespersons in New York City! I feel you are concerned
about protecting religion, not protecting children. You love
the corporation first and the true victims second. I would
not be surprised it you took full advantage of broadcasting
the Catholic Church scandal(Which is wrong also), but now
the shoe is on the other foot. The simple fact is the leaders
of the Watchtower are not inspired, and yes like you say when
things don't go to plan, THEY ARE IMPERFECT HUMAN BEINGS.
WELL START TREATING THEM LIKE IMPERFECT HUMAN BEINGS and stop
buying everything they say as if it was direct from God. FJ
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
11:16:10
Comments
Hey all, check out the JW's stats report! http://www.jwic.com/stat.htm
Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
12:44:04
Comments
(See? It's not as cut and dried simple as you think ...) Actually,
it is. First, I like to say, that I have many friends from
different religious backgrounds (Catholics, Baptist, Jewish,
Protestant, JW, Muslin etc ...), and I am happy to say that
I do not discriminate or hate any on them because of there
beliefs……. Next, it is a FACT, that when the Catholics
where caught and exposed, they attempted to blame everyone
else but themselves……Just to go the Boston Globe
website for the FACTS and EVIDENCE…….Also, it
is a FACT, that the Catholic Bishops in Dallas fell short
in dealing with their big problem in the pedophile scandal,
namely, themselves…..If a Bishop protected a KNOWN CHILD
ABUSER and broke the law, he should be in JAIL, …..
So who is still denying and ignoring their own SCANDAL??????Who
is being manipulative?????Who has much, much to learn about
the Catholics scandal ??????Also, you seem to express a lot
of hate and anger when describing the WTS….WHY???????ANGEL31
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
13:05:31
Comments
The last post is suggesting that the WT society is a loving
group just like any other religion. Here is a small example
of their love. "They are not to assume the attitude or
follow the sinful course of Christendom's lucre-loving clergy,
who abuse and destroy the "sheep", scatter the flock,
and even rob and devour widows' houses to satisfy their lustful
and greedy appetites." (The Watchtower, 4/15, 1950, p.121)
Want more examples of love? Just ask. It's there.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
13:30:09
Comments
in reference to the posting about pastor Russell: back then
women in the work force were called "girls" to lower
their status as compared to working men. Although the reference
to the girl sitting on his knee and kissing him sounded like
a child, not a woman. Have I misread this? Larry ldsommer@hotmail.com
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
15:10:31
Comments
ANGEL31 --- Hi it's Jesika again. I also have a lot of friends
from different religions and don't hold any beliefs against
them. The Catholics scandal is merely used in reference(at
least by me) to what can be done if we are not silent anymore.
The anger displayed by many towards the WT is rooted(in my
opinion) by hurt and betrayal. What has been taught to many
JW's since birth(myself included) is how honest and up front
they are. How right they are and how wrong every other religion
on earth is. They were there to protect us and to save us
from the wicked men of this world. They have forgotten to
put God first and what he would want for all his children--
prejudice and abuse are not among them. All I want is for
the WT to take responsibility for their own policy and admit
it was wrong--or at the least change it and prove they are
going to stick by it. No more children in any religion should
suffer. I am focused on the JW's's because that was the religion
that hurt me. I wish I could stop it everywhere, but I am
not God-and I would never try to be. Thanks Jesika Thoman
Dallas, Tx
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
15:33:28
Comments
Linda Thoman,….. As stated on this Website “We'd
like to know what you think about our web site. Please leave
your comments in this public guest book so we can share your
thoughts with other visitors.”…… So, Linda,
lets see who's comments above clearly indicate a tremendous
ignorance regarding my postings specifically in regards to
the Jehovah's Witness Organization …… On, Jun
19 2002, I ANSWERED a question POSTED by a REPORTER, along
with a question of my own, in regards to the Jehovah's Witness
Organization's ABUSE ALLEGATIONS…….……Afterwards,
some individuals, including JESIKA, posted comments to my
question…… So, who is being ignorant?????????
I have done plenty of research on this Religion and many others,
with an open mind and without being BIAS… I have all
the facts, and much more, so I feel the need to post it when
given the opportunity…..Just like YOU and everyone else
on this and many other websites ……If you don't
agree or like the FACTS, there is not much I can do about
it…….. OK, here is your first lesson of the day…………………………..Check
out this website www.religiousfreedomwatch.org,,some info
from that Website……. “Hate propaganda is
spread with only one purpose: to instill fear in the uninformed.
Those who commit such acts are well aware that, left unchallenged,
their lies will propagate and breed further acts of hatred,
even violence. Throughout history, men and women of religion
have stood against tyranny and fought for the natural right
of all individuals to practice their own faiths and beliefs,
free from harassment, suppression and persecution.”………………….OK,
now the second lesson of the day…..When any one of Jehovah's
Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation
elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately
with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on
the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders
may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position
in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during
that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there
are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot
take action within the congregation at that time. Why not?
As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the
Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise
up against a man respecting any error or any sin ... At
the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses
the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus
reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17.
However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents
of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed
sufficient to take action…….Linda, as you can
see , I have done more than my share of RESEARCH…….So
for now , I will go by the FACTS and EVIDENCE I have researched……Don't
get me wrong, if the Cases Pending find the WTS guilty of
breaking the law, my opinions WILL CHANGE ...……Thanks
for your comments Linda…… ANGEL31
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
15:40:20
Comments
7-1 -- 8:48 Lord help you child. It is impossible for me to
reach someone so vehemently ENTRENCHED in denial. Only God
can do it. I pray He will.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
15:42:47
Comments
HEY LARRY --- I think you may have over looked this line in
the posting(I had to go back and read it again after reading
your post)The testimony which elicited the most comment concerned
the relations of Pastor Russell with Rose Ball, a young woman
stenographer employed by Pastor Russell in the Bible House
on Arch Street. She is refereed to as a young women, plus I
wouldn't think they would ship a child to Australia. Even
though it wasn't a child it does show he didn't practice what
he preached-morally anyways. Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
16:00:42
Comments
ANGEL31 --- OK, doing research is great-that I agree with.
The two witness thing--I DO NOT!!!! My uncle molested me (Linda's
brother) and since he didn't do it to someone else(that I
know of) than I am at fault for coming forward against another
brother!!!!!!!!!! Nothing in this world would be able to convince
me of that!!!! My sister had 5 WITNESSES-- but the elders
wouldn't allow them to speak!!! Like I have told others --- If
no one witnesses a person that got murdered--is the person
faking being dead??? The only witness is the victim!!!! My
innocence was murdered and since I have no other witness-it
is dismissed!!!! THAT'S WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't
care how much research you do --- it is still and will always
be wrong. Even if the cases against the WT don't go all the
way-to the point that you would change your opinion, like
the example I stated above--if the murderer wasn't caught,
or they didn't have enough evidence, was the crime not still
committed and someone is still DEAD!!!!!!!! Like my innocence
can never be given back!!!! I don't care about anyone's opinion--I
know what is right and what is wrong!!!!!! Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
16:09:17
Comments
RE: Pastor Charles Taze Russell ...Interesting, but
if the things you wrote are really true, where are the citations? --- Unlike
the borg (who MYSTERIOUSLY are thrilled to accept unsigned,
un-footnoted pieces of one-way babble as the HIGHEST form of
journalism), that form of 'mystery writing' won't fly with
the THINKING people at this website. EVEN THO, it might be
something we would really LIKE to believe. So cough it up.
Truth or rubbish?
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
16:38:46
Comments
Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness is not enough to convict a man
accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter
must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
--- Why does
the Watchtower insist that this verse written thousands of
years ago must be taken to the letter, yet other verses like
Revelation 7:5-8, naming all of the 144,000 tribes of Israel,
may be chucked into the rework pile to fit their theology.
And all the luminous "New Light" that has showered
us for the past 120 years from the society has been wasted
on covering up 'prophecies' that never materialized. Certainly
common sense should kick in with a little 'new light' where
it truly needed like here. It is my opinion however that
the real issue is protecting the societies image. After all,
they have to protect at all costs the Watchtowers claims to
be the Only True Christians on the earth. Here is an example
of their boasting: "So where is true religion to be found?
In all humility and honesty, we must say that Jehovah's Witnesses
form an international community walking along this 'narrow
and cramped road." (Watchtower, Dec. 1, 1991.p.8) So
the whole world is wrong but them! Puts them in a rather awkward
position when things go wrong. ===================================================
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
16:39:46
Comments
To Angel ...You wrote-“Hate propaganda is spread with
only one purpose: to instill fear in the uninformed. Those
who commit such acts are well aware that, left unchallenged,
their lies will propagate and breed further acts of hatred,
even violence. Throughout history, men and women of religion
have stood against tyranny and fought for the natural right
of all individuals to practice their own faiths and beliefs,
free from harassment, suppression and persecution.” "Hate
propaganda? Lies?" What propaganda, what lies? Perhaps
there are those who are making hate-filled comments, but I
do not carry hate towards any. Lies? What lies? Only the victim
and the accused know if lies are being told. The remainder
of your comments means absolutely nothing to me, because perps
are not going to invite an audience!!! This abuse is a crime!
ELDERS SHOULD NOT EVEN GET INVOLVED in these situations, but
only to encourage the PROPER authorities be notified and it
be handled by the police and not threaten victims and families
of victims of disfellowshipping if they speak outside the
congregation!!!! Elders/Congregations are NOT the Proper Authorities
for these types of things!!! If it was something like the
rule against Smoking, fine require two witnesses to make an
accusation. Smoking isn't against the Law, but adults having
sexual contact with a child/minor IS A CRIME!!! At that time
the Elders should back off and allow the police investigations
take their course and the guilty party go where they belong,
jail. Who made the asinine decision that the Governing Body
and the Society is the Judge, Jury and Executioner for everything?
Oh yeah, I already know the answer to that one ...I've been
reading Ray Franz 4th Edition of Crisis of Conscience! Sorry
Angel, that nonsense about needing two witnesses to make an
accusation is ridiculous when it involves crimes. Personally,
I feel any and all Elders/Ministerial Servants/Governing Body
Members, etc who have knowledge/evidence that crimes are taking
place and do not provide that information to the proper authorities
to handle the matter are almost as guilty of the perp, and
should be charged with Withholding Evidence In A Criminal
Case or something along those lines. And, I feel that any
Elders/Ministerial Servants etc who have knowledge of crimes
or past crimes that did not tell the proper authorities and
take swift action to protect others from the perp should all
be disfellowshipped themselves! Who will protect the "flock" when
the friggin "Shepherds" are doing everything to protect
the perps and the Societies Image and bank account! ARGH!!!!!
Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
17:04:51
Comments
"
RE: Pastor Charles Taze Russell ...Interesting, but
if the things you wrote are really true, where are the citations?" Your
comment that it was "interesting" was my only intent
by posting that information/link on this site. Where are the
citations? I only provided what I found, so far ...Linda
Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
17:08:29
Comments
"
HATE PROPAGANDA IS SPREAD WITH ONLY ONE PURPOSE: TO INSTILL
FEAR IN THE UNINFORMED" More Love From The Watchtower: "They
[the clergy] have in fact represented the Devil, because it
[the Church] is the Devil's organization." (J. F. Rutherford,
Life, 1929, p292) "Such was the state of affairs by the
time Constantine the Great laid the foundation of the Catholic
church in the fourth century A.D., and down through the centuries
since then, Christendom's multitudinous sects and cults have
continued to hold sheep like persons in their parish fold,
where they are plundered, exploited, fleeced and devoured
for the pleasure and profit of the false shepherds." (The
Watchtower, 4/15,1950,p119)
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
18:07:24
Comments
Question: If a congregation member is found dead(foul play)behind
the Kingdom Hall, and there was not two witnesses to the crime,
would everyone call it a night and just go home? Of course
not. A crime has been committed. The police would be called
in! The two or three witness rule MEANS NOTHING!!! Likewise,
if a child reports being abused by an adult, and surprise,
surprise, no one admitted it, would everyone call it a night
and just go home? No, ...I mean Yes. And that is the problem.
It is easier to hide the evidence within a helpless victim,
and pretend life goes on. This is a crime also! Treat it for
what it is. This is not a member found smoking which is not
a civil crime. It is a sin in the eyes of the Jehovah's Witness
though. So let the elders handle that. But on the dateline
show the elder in court did not want to be forced to report
crime for fear that no one will confess. That's fine if you
want to harbor criminals. Let your conscience be your guide.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
19:33:27
Comments
What conscience??? There's an interesting post at Jehovahs-witnesses.com
(or something very close to that) - it's about WHY people
come back after having been DF'd. Top few reasons (in random
order) a) miss their family and would rather fake repentance
than continue alone without their family b) like having the
society tell them what to do so they don't have to take on
the complicated job of thinking through things themselves
- they like the black and white of it and the spoon-feeding
c) don't have another support system in place d) it's familiar,
even if they know it's wrong e) something' to do
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
19:35:59
Comments
Linda ...thanks for searching out the CT Russell stuff but
I can't give it any credence until, perhaps, you've got more
solid stuff. Even the story of Rose is pretty foggy. Too bad.
Keep looking. If he was a pedophile, that would pretty much
explain EVERYTHING, wouldn't it? Thanks for searching.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
22:43:13
Comments
Another suggestion: What is being done to lobby the other
states that do not have reporting laws. Also does anyone know
what the law is in Canada? The Catholic Church has been getting
bad press there years before it surfaced in the States with
the Catholics and the Jehovah's Witness.
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
22:56:01
Comments
I am so shocked and whatever little I've read is enough -
it's like entering an alien world. Sarote
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
22:57:53
Comments
To ANGEL 31::::::::::::::::::I am very sorry if you are getting
so upset, but if you think "hate propaganda" is
wrong, what do you think of WTS's view on Christendom? JUST
GRAB A WATCHTOWER OR AN AWAKE! MAGAZINE AND SEE WHAT THEY
SAY ABOUT "CHRISTENDOM" FUNNY! The word "Christendom" means
Christianity according to the Webster Dictionary. Therefore,
Jehovah's Witnesses should be "Christendom", too,
if we are Christians. But I have to say that I'VE NEVER HEARD
THEM ( WTS ) SAYING MUCH ABOUT BUDDHISTS OR HINDUS ...just
a thought to be fair ...
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
23:46:26
Comments
My nephew and six of my nieces were molested by their fathers
repeatedly, and the fathers molested each others children.
They invoked the name of Jehovah in their actions, telling
them that Jehovah told them to do it to punish them, or that
Jehovah told them to do it to prepare them for womanhood.
Heinous atrocities were perpetrated on the boy child, and
yet, no one has represented him. Two girls charged the fathers,
but they plea bargained rather than opt for trial, with the
stipulation that no other child molestation charges could
be brought against them in the state of Florida. The witness
posse showed up at the sentencing, and though the children, weeping,
tried to tell how their treatment affected them, neither the
witnesses nor the father would look at the children as they
sobbed out their stories. Mr. Hagens of the sex abuse division
of the state attorney's office in Daytona Beach, FL, as well
as the detective who gathered the information on one of the
men, said it was the most heinous case he had ever seen. The
detective found some 750 pages of reports of sexual misconduct
(or suspected) on one of the men in the state of Florida.
However, the sexual crimes he committed more recently in the
state of Alabama far outweigh the gravity of what he did in
Florida, but with the Jehovah Witness protection, he was able
to keep hidden in what he did. A JW in the child protective
service even called him once to warn him that the C.P.S. was
on the way to get his children from school, and he was able
to go get them before they had a chance to talk to the children.
He had repeatedly told the children that if they ever told,
he would kill their mother, his estranged wife. These men
are out and with the flaunting their freedom, still reminding
the children that they are still victims, in that they have
never had to repent or recant, and indeed have never admitted
what they have done. These children need to feel that someone
is on their side. No one besides their mother and two aunts
have been their advocates. Would appreciate your help. Susan
K. Johnson, okee_dokey@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
01 Jul 2002
Time:
23:51:22
Comments
I am pleased to find out about your website. I have not had
time to browse. However, their are several people who, will
hopefully find that they have support. susan k. johnson, okee_dokey@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
02:30:07
Comments
Hi again, The letter I wrote was my personal opinion but I
still feel that the elders should protect it's members from
pedophiles who attend the kingdom hall and when they knowingly
allow a pedophile to attend the logical consequences is that
a child has/is/will be molested or worse ... This is the
nature of this type of deviant behavior ... all the
quotes of law does not change this FACT ...
When elders allow them (Pedophiles)to be in attendance at
kingdom hall and/or social gatherings children think they
are safe just because they are there ...When their parents
and/or others smile and say hello to the offender children
assume that person is OK ...By nature children
are very trusting ... For pedophiles
to get in with our children all they need is access (even
just visually "smiling at our child as they go by" possibly) ...Then
later they can stop by and offer children a ride home from
school as our child walks. The excuse is "Just going
by." or give children candy or accidentally go by their
school(in another town)to see your child or just molest the
child right there at the hall often in sight of others ...
How long does that take? These situations have and do exist
in the congregation ... When they meet our children
at the hall it is assumed they are SAFE ...We are told
we are in a spiritual paradise ...as I quoted from Psalms in
an earlier post ...If we dare to question this reasoning we
have a bad attitude that needs adjusting ...don't not to be
overly suspicious of our brothers ...Think about it ...Yes
the elders owe our children whether in a court of law/settlement
or before Jehovah God. The latter would not be so tolerant ...DJB
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
06:54:55
Comments
THAT STATEMENT THERE IMPERFECT HUMAN BEINGS IS CRAP A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE IMPERFECT AND DON'T GO AROUND MOLESTING CHILDREN
NOR DO THEY ALLOW IT AND SAY NOTHING TO STOP IT SO STOP USING
THE DAMN EXCUSE THAT THE JW LEADERS ARE IMPERFECT HUMAN BEINGS
SICK OF PEOPLE USING EXCUSES TO HIDE OTHER PEOPLES SIN EVEN
THE BIBLE SAYS SINS WILL BE EXPOSED AND THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING
HERE PEOPLE ARE BEING EXPOSED IN THE KH I have said enough
for now Penny
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
06:55:47
Comments
THAT STATEMENT THERE IMPERFECT HUMAN BEINGS IS CRAP A LOT OF
PEOPLE ARE IMPERFECT AND DON'T GO AROUND MOLESTING CHILDREN
NOR DO THEY ALLOW IT AND SAY NOTHING TO STOP IT SO STOP USING
THE DAMN EXCUSE THAT THE JW LEADERS ARE IMPERFECT HUMAN BEINGS
SICK OF PEOPLE USING EXCUSES TO HIDE OTHER PEOPLES SIN EVEN
THE BIBLE SAYS SINS WILL BE EXPOSED AND THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING
HERE PEOPLE ARE BEING EXPOSED IN THE KH I have said enough
for now Penny
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
09:21:19
Comments
I have written to the source of the information provided to
me regarding my post about C.T. Russell's separation hearing.
Once I hear back about further evidence of it's validity and
truth, I'll post it here. OK? Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
12:35:57
Comments
I am so pleased that there are organizations like yours that
help fill the deep empty void left by the fanatical teachings
of a religion that seeks to own God. It is such a sin to have
to go through life knowing that your family thinks you are
evil because you think for yourself. Why doesn't it sink in
that being called a sheep is not a compliment! They're frequent
warnings like 'Watch out that you not be lead astray buy associating
with anyone who opposes them, or questioning doctrine, the
Internet is bad association- watch out! really saying don't
think for yourself!- let us think for you! and in return,
we will call you sheep! What happened to the "Truth Will
Set You Free?" Through their arrogance, they dare to
set themselves up as the voice of Jehovah. Why can't they
see through that? When I asked them if they would carry out
some of the evil deeds of the old testament, they invariably
say no but they love the one who does kill people, even innocent
babies and animals. What is it that they love about their
Jehovah? The Mosaic law is evil and filled with sadistic teachings,
such as you are to kill your son if he blasphemes by gathering
up the city folk and bludgeoning them with stones until they
slowly die. Gory animal sacrifices that break every civilized
law regarding humane animal treatment. I am a bad person because,
even though I am honest to a fault, and donate much time helping
people recovering from drugs& alcohol, I am not a JW's so
I am of the world= evil. I also smoke which proves my evilness.
I have spent 38 yrs alone in this world, with no family, brothers,
sisters, mother, because I am not a JW's. I feel the deepest
sense of loneliness that comes in a quiet moment, because
of that religion. If they only knew the pain they cause for
Jehovah. Thank you for your fine work. Jim L.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
15:24:19
Comments
The Worldwide Christian Community Letter Number One June 2002
--- To All Bodies of Elders of Jehovah's Witnesses
--- A seven-page letter from the Branch Office
in Patterson, NY (Feb 15th 2002) was sent to "ALL BODIES
OF ELDERS IN THE UNITED STATES." However, you will be
aware from scripture that *all* older men are implicated.
(1 Peter 5:1-4) Therefore, we highlight the pertinent words
of the final sentence: "Please be assured of our continual
prayers in YOUR behalf as YOU carry out YOUR weighty responsibility
to shepherd the flock of God entrusted to YOUR care." --- Why Is the Governing Body Focusing On "Responsibility" At
This Time? All Jehovah's Witnesses know that the organization
is undergoing intense media scrutiny at present and the "sheep" are
being disturbed. What are the facts? We cite just a few: 1)
In the USA two multiple murders among Witness families in
Oregon have been widely reported. 2) In Scotland, UK, Alison
Cousins has courageously spoken of the years of sexual abuse
by her Witness father. This was reported in Woman's Own (March
25th 2002) under "Church of Shame." It also exposed
a shameful cover-up attempt by local elders. 3) Dateline (American
current affairs program) has been seen on both sides of the
Atlantic. It focused on the prevalence of child molestation
within the organization. Sincere current Witnesses spoke out
freely; they contrasted the ideal from the Society's public
relations department, with the stark, horrific reality that
exists in the congregations! 4) In the UK, the BBC has seen
incriminating secret letters from the Society instructing
you to keep quiet about Pedophiles in your congregations.
You are aware of this directive. Therefore, cliches about "keeping
the congregation clean" sound rather hollow when what
is unclean is "swept under the carpet." This is
causing hitherto loyal supporters to leave in disgust and
if they "blow the whistle" they are hastily dispatched
from your ranks (Jesus was a "whistle blower." Look
what they did to him!) 5) The Guardian of October 2001 (UK
newspaper) exposed a glaring act of hypocrisy by the Society.
In 1992 they joined the United Nations Organization! Details
are obtainable direct from the UNO. The Society has drawn
up a standard response. (see Organization book, page 151)
6) In France, the Society owes huge sums in unpaid taxes and
penalties. Add that to the escalating legal costs and damages
they face around the world, and the total is astronomical!
Their charity status is also under threat. But what about
YOUR status with God? --- Goodness or Righteousness:
Which Will YOU follow? If your child were sick during the
night you would promptly do something about it. You wouldn't
simply turn over and say, "Jehovah will sort it out!" Or,
if you only suspected your house was being burgled, you'd
call the police ... and they'd come wouldn't they? Imagine
them saying, "Sorry! We can't do anything without at
least two eye-witnesses." Yet this exactly illustrates
the Society's policy! But what is the policy in YOUR congregation?
To simply "follow orders" even when they come from
those that you trust, is to actually shirk the responsibility
that you have committed yourself to. To illustrate, when the
Titanic was sinking some of the stewards tried to stop third
class passengers from escaping via the first class area. That's
what happens when one thoughtlessly "follows company
orders." Precious lives are at stake! You often quote
from Matthew 18:16 in support of your "two eye-witnesses" policy.
But please read the rest of Jesus' words in that chapter and
compare the relative values he puts on "goodness" as
opposed to "righteousness". You have repeatedly
been taught that the problems Jesus was focusing on were not
criminal ones but minor things between brothers. Quite true!
So, to place the horrific acts that Pedophiles inflict on
their child victims into this category, apart from being a
flagrant distortion of scripture, is despicable. It reduces
such evil to the commonplace and is tantamount to abusing
the child yet again! In kindness and love we urge you: Have
goodness as your master and righteousness as your slave. (Please
read Ezekiel Ch. 34) For further information see: www.silentlambs.org
--- END OF LETTER --- http://www/exjws.net/letter1boe.htm
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
15:32:56
Comments
Excuse me that address for the "Worldwide Christian Community" mentioned
above should be: http://www.exjws.net/letter1boe.htm
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
16:19:38
Comments
ABOUT BUDDHISTS OR HINDUS ...just a thought to be
fair ...Angry???????????Why do you think I am angry???????Please
review my postings, my comments have been respectful and without
any indication of anger?????I'll let you reflect for awhile ...I'll
respond to your question in a few days ...….By the way,
please leave your screen name if possible………….ANGEL31
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
17:27:10
Comments
To Jim L ...I really appreciate your comments, and I understand
only too well your sense of loneliness in those quiet moments,
as you said. I know what it's like to not have "family",
as I was Disfellowshipped from the JW's back in '95 and have
had only minute communication with family members. This is
only when there has been a death in the family or extended
family, or when someone has become seriously ill. I find it
ironic that when my daughter was in the hospital last year,
suddenly my mother and my sister-in-law appeared in the room.
My mother hugged me, as well as my sister in law. My hands
remained down, I did not hug back. I felt very strange, uncomfortable
to an extreme. For them to appear in crisis moments, and then
to totally disappear again until the next crisis or death,
etc is so strange to me. I wish they hadn't shown up at the
hospital at all, because it made the situation very uncomfortable
for everyone around that has knowledge of the way family treats
ex-witnesses. It even seems strange to me to refer to them
as my "family". I know what family is supposed to
be, but since '95 that disappeared in a single announcement
of my Disfellowshipment. I have found many times that I have
actually forgotten at times that I have family by this name
or that name. Suddenly I hear the name brought up, and I have
to stop and think about it momentarily ...Oh Yeah, he's my
brother, or he's my cousin, etc. As strange and lonely as
I felt immediately after the announcement was made about me,
time has brought me peace. I have wonderful friends, real
friends. It is sad, yes ...that family can own you one day
and disown you the next, and treat you as though you are dead ...that
is, until there's another crisis then suddenly you're alive
again and being hugged!! Jim, I feel for what you said. I
really don't know where I got my "strength" or assertiveness,
I just know I will never allow myself to feel downtrodden
and stomped on and I'm certainly not dead! And Hey! I smoke
too ...watch my smoke rings fly! I don't care what my family
thinks anymore about me personally or what I do with my life.
Whether it is "wrong" for me to smoke or not, it's
still my choice and no one has the right to judge me accept
God himself. The Witnesses do not hold any power over me anymore.
Hang in there Jim! Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
17:38:24
Comments
To those of you who claim to be open-minded, AND are current
Witnesses ...I feel no Hate towards any of you. If
you are open minded as you claim, I highly recommend a thorough
reading of Ray Franz new book Crisis of Conscience 4th Edition.
He was a member of the Governing Body for nine years, his
own uncle was the Vice President under Knorr. Ray Franz wrote
this book out of love and a real sense of obligation to tell
the truth about what occurred in the Governing Body Sessions
and to tell the truth (with documentation as proof) about
how doctrine has been decided upon, as well as the "rules" for
being a Witness in good standing. Those of you who are NOT
familiar with the situation about the Malawi Brothers vs.
the Mexican Brothers, in my opinion are doing yourselves a
real disservice by not finding out what the Truth is on your
own, by your own study. Some say that the book is Apostate.
Well, it's not and it was not written that way either. It
was written to simply state the facts as they occurred, leaving
the reader to decide for themselves what they make of the
information. Ray Franz even makes that very statement at the
very beginning of the book. He doesn't tell the reader what
anyone should believe in or not believe in doctrine wise.
He simply states facts as they happened and recorded them.
Most people, except for those in that room during those sessions
knew UNTIL Ray's book what really goes on in those sessions.
Elders aren't told, C.O's aren't told, etc. Those meetings/sessions
are very very private. Those sessions/brothers are the ones
who decide every single aspect of Witnesses lives. Even what
should or should not go on in a Witness couples bedroom. Shouldn't
you see the information/evidence for YOURSELVES and you decide
for YOURSELF? Don't the Witnesses teach to Be Sure Of All
Things? Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
18:17:51
Comments
I have been gone for 3 days! I broke the plug that puts in
the juice for my email ...lots of catching up to do reading
the posts etc ...I missed you guys! I have to play catch up
with work first and then I will be back soon. Love Claudine
aka soap box
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
18:40:11
Comments
I'll be your family, if you'll be mine. Perhaps we can speak
of our 'ex' parents (or something else?), since we all seem
to have them. Your words resonate with me. I know what you're
talking about - I've been there, too. How dare these people
call themselves parents.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
19:17:33
Comments
Susan: you need to write the Watchtower Society and then you
need to write CBS, NBC, Oprah, and anyone else you can think
of. We are with you in helping. People like you are very important
in that the WTS cannot accuse you of being "apostate" or
having a hidden agenda. Email addresses are on previous posts
for media contact. Please invite the victims to read the posts
here - so they know they are not alone or crazy etc ...and
maybe they can find the strength to get out. C. E.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
19:59:37
Comments
Bless you. I'm XJW, free at last, and guiltless. I've been visiting
your chat room since the nbc broadcast. I've recently been
unable to find people in your chat room to talk with. But I
will continue to try and offer my time to help.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
20:26:31
Comments
Hi again, *Response to previous Post,"talking about how
BR had no case against the elders to hold them accountable" unsigned*
... Larry
Baker according to the press release I received was an elder
in the past and was removed because he molested a child. This
puts the elders in the know about this man. Bryan Rees step-father
was an elder who knew ...
I do not know the laws in the states and maybe this is permitted
by church leaders to know about an abuser and allow him to
remain as a member attending the congregation meetings in
contact with children. I still say this is wrong. There is
sins of omission and sins of commission. This is clearly sins
of omission. He suffered because they did nothing. It was
so CRUEL of them ...
In Canada there is such a thing a Vicarious Liability. The
management committee that I serve on could be accountable
and sued by victims if say we unknowingly hired someone to
work with a child and say that child was molested (especially
if the job description was specific and say included for example
bathing the child, other close contact with said child etc).
We could be held accountable even if we did not know the person
was a molester. Even if it was a volunteer situation and child
was under our care and the child was molested by another person
we arranged or allowed to be around child we could be held
accountable ...
The elders should have warned the congregation about the pedophile
at the very least but they did not. How can we protect our
children when we are not given the tools to do so??? Such
as names of abusers, and forbidden access to the kingdom hall.
Somehow I see that the greater community has a responsibility
here. That greater community for many of Jehovah's Witnesses
is the kingdom hall and those who attend. I believe Bryan
Rees had a right to hold the elders accountable. It was in
their power they could have prevented so much pain and suffering
if they had warned and prevented his contact with Larry Baker(as
the one elder was his step-father) ...
In Canada(Ontario) when dangerous offender who is a child
molester moves into a community they will publish the picture
of the offender. It will be on the news warning the community.
So everyone is on the alert to watch for problems and this
to a certain extent protects the community. Some areas are
more diligent then others in this regard. Often the offender
is forced to move when this happens as no one wants them in
their area ...
I know of one case where a young woman saw a offenders picture
recognized his face as the one who had assaulted her on the
way home. She went to the police had him charged and he went
back to prison. This action would have prevented many others
from becoming victims of this man ...
The elders getting off with regards to Bryan Rees is not justice.
The laws obviously need to be changed to reflect more concern
for the victim what they need as regard compensation to put
their lives back together. These road blocks to justice should
be removed. Vicarious Liability of the elders here is very
clear to me ...DJB
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
21:54:40
Comments
This is where I got my information on C.T. Russell's divorce/separation
hearing: http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=eb427ae4943df82707ff9e1470bd2ef3&lat=1025664706&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2epaulblizard%2ecom%2fruss1%2ehtml
Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
21:57:09
Comments
http://64.4.8.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=e4999772f94c8a20b38e0489f85235a5&lat=1025664875&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2epaulblizard%2ecom%2fruss1%2ehtml
Information on C.T. Russell's divorce hearing was obtained
from www.watchthetower.com Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
22:06:10
Comments
Darn, here I am trying to post the darn link to where I got
my information on C.T. Russell! Oh well, it is from www.watchthetower.com
OK? Yeeeesh! Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
22:12:46
Comments
Two more file lawsuits against Jehovah's Witnesses http://krd.realcities.com/ads/media/network/home/popup2.htm
Two file sex abuse suit against Jehovah's Witnesses congregation
BY STEPHEN SCOTT Religion Editor Two women filed a civil suit
Tuesday alleging they were sexually abused as young girls
by a fellow member of a Jehovah's Witnesses congregation in
Annandale, Minn.The women, both now 22 and living in the Twin
Cities, say the religion's very tenets make it virtually impossible
for victims to come forward, because at least two witnesses
are required to corroborate any act of wrongdoing. After
these incidents,'' said
the plaintiff's attorney, Jeffrey Anderson
of St. Paul, these women went to the elders,
and they were told, 'We don't really believe
you, because we require two witnesses to this for it to have
happened, and if there aren't two, you are giving false testimony.' At
issue is Jehovah's Witnesses understanding of the Bible, specifically
Deuteronomy 19:15, which says a single witness shall not suffice
in convicting a person of a crime or wrongdoing. Although Jehovah's
Witnesses do not interpret every passage of the Bible literally,
they base their beliefs solely on principles found in the
Bible.If the accused denies
the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them,
the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that
time,'' says the group's
official statement called "Jehovah's
Witnesses and Child Protection.'' Both
plaintiffs allege that while they were between 10 and 12 years
old, they were fondled by a male member of the congregation
who was eight years older. Named as defendants are Derek Lindala,
30, of South Haven, Minn., who is alleged to have fondled
the girls on separate occasions either in his family home
or while on church-related activities; the Annandale congregation;
and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, which
is the Jehovah's Witnesses incorporated headquarters ...Source
of this information was Woman-Awake@yahoogroups.com OK? Yeeeeesh!
Linda Thoman (Now I have to provide all my sources, eh?) LOL
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
22:38:12
Comments
Linda, When speaking to my mother (she has just started bible
studies) regarding Russell, she immediately stated that after
Russell died Rutherford had 'communication' that told him
that there was still false beliefs within the organization.
Then I read recently about how the JWs refer Russell's book
as inspired. There is an watchtower article on watchtowerobserver.com
that has July 1 2003 as the date and it is talking a lot about
Killing apostates. Do you know if that watchtower is just
dated wrong on that site or if its a 'future' one some say
will come to be???? I need to know this, it will help me and
my mom better understand the JW situation. She has not affiliated
with them for over a decade and I think that she has missed
vital information. Please help! bon
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
22:51:01
Comments
Aiding and abetting is a crime and it seems like a "conspiracy" to
commit a crime. Do the Elders that allow this to happen get
a perverted vicarious pleasure knowing that they allow other
men to sexually touch the children in the congregation???? *** I
would not let a pedophile so much as look at a picture of
my babies! Let alone attend a meeting with one present. *** I
remember the look the sister gave me who was studying with
me when I said to her that the one thing I could not do was
accept a pedophile at the KH , a murderer maybe, a pedophile
never. This was long before I knew anything. But she had a
look she gave me. *** I hung my American
Flag today in protest for what the WTS did to the Malawis
- a very small token of protest. I am filled with grief. c.e.
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
23:01:11
Comments
I just wanted to let everybody know what I have been working
on. Myself and another girl who wishes to remain anonymous
at this time filed a suit against the person who molested
us as children, the elders who protected and enabled him,
and the organization (WTBTS) who directed them to. Read the
story on this link. http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/3033760.html
Remote User:
Date:
02 Jul 2002
Time:
23:36:46
Comments
To ANGEL 31 *** Sorry, Angel31. Did I offend you?
If you see all the capital letters, that's because I couldn't
make them bold to emphasize. I hope you are not taking it
as I was yelling at you. It was I, Age00, who mentioned the
Buddhists and Hindus. They even worship carved images and COWS!
( I'm not yelling.) *** I guess for me the most problem
with the WTS's policy was that they have been ( and still
are )letting the accused/confessed pedophiles go door to door.
If you have an alcoholic friend, would you let him/her go
to a bar? I have talked to an elder recently, and he confirmed
that "They are still going door to door now". Would
you go out door to door with that pedophile brother/sister
with your child? And sit with him/her at the Kingdom Hall? *** I'm
not saying that the person doesn't deserve another chance.
I just think if he/she is accused without two or even one
witness, it is the child, the alleged victim, who needs to
see a psychologist. Trained and professional children's psychologists
can see things that we cannot. Besides faking a molestation
can't go too far in their eyes ...If one confesses
for molesting a child, I think ( I strongly believe) that
he/she should be isolated and restricted from congregation
members and the ministry until he/she gets some help. But
I know that it can't be certain that he/she could be cured.
But what can we do? We just have to try keep our place as
safe as possible, and try to cope with the problems we have
until God's kingdom come ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
00:51:03
Comments
People if you don't want the JW's at your door write a note
to the kingdom hall that serves your area and tell them to
stay away from your house I learned this from the City Overseer,
it works. Bill in MN
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
01:00:50
Comments
It seems the way the JW's change their bible to match their
beliefs and justify their different beliefs from other religions.
Maybe its not molestation if you pound on enough doors and
make all of the book studies for a year. Lets face it God
is perfect, Man isn't and when Man thinks he is God you have
a very scary situation like those lying bastard at the WT
Bill in MN
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
01:46:16
Comments
ANOTHER LAW SUIT!!!!!! Well now everyone knows about it so
now I can talk about it! I was in Minnesota(still am right
now,I'll be in Dallas later today) when the press conference
took place yesterday. Her name is Heidi Meyer. She is a very
brave and inspirational person. I stayed at her house during
my visit and was strengthened by her display on camera and her
interviews with the papers. She was very confident and determined
to get the message out. There is a link posted above to one
of the many papers that covered the story. It was incredible
to be able to witness the stand she has taken--TO DO SOMETHING!!!!!
The other girl who is involved in the same suit has proved
to all that you can do something without having to disclose
who you are, but you can say who the abuser is and can seek
legal action for what they have done to you. Bill Bowen was
there also and it was a pleasure to be able to sit down and
speak with him. He is so driven by telling the truth and protecting
the children. He told us some stories of different experiences
he has had with the media and with people he has talked to--
he had tears in his eyes as did everyone listening. Anyone
who thinks he is in this for profit is DEAD WRONG!!!! His
intentions are the purest I have ever seen in my life!!!!
Heidi has come forward and so has the women who has chosen
to remain a Jane Doe. This needs to happen everywhere--Nation
and Worldwide!! People are listening, KEEP TALKING!!!!!!!!!
Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
07:11:48
Comments
For those who have been victimized please tell your experiences
and make them known! I talked with an elder yesterday that
saw the Dateline story and said "it was one sided".
I believe that even elders don't understand the depth of the
situation as to how many people who have been hurt! I told
him the Dateline story isn't an isolated case that there are
many more stories just like them. I told him I couldn't be
part of an organization that protected pedophiles and are
left to sit next to us in the Kingdom Halls. I asked "How
are we suppose to protect our children against pedophiles
when you allow them to remain in our presence?" He didn't
have an answer! That pretty much answered my prayers! To The
Mole who told me to keep asking questions, I did and didn't
come out with a warm fuzzy feeling! Keep reporting from within
and keep us informed! To Bill Bowen, keep fighting for those
who desperately need your help! Someone in Texas
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
08:08:37
Comments
When are there going to be updates on this site? This site
seems like it is dying.
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
09:29:12
Comments
OK, first my apologies to all for not seeing the pain nor
the action you are taking. Second, here are some steps I am
taking and a few ideas for Bill and those editing the website
to consider. My Steps: 1) I am sending to all my email contacts
(witnesses and others) weekly updates about the happenings
reported regarding this matter. (i.e., the court case in MN,
UK action, etc.) 2) My son and I are building a quick app
to hit against my personal website that will create for you
a free email site to use for posting here. Will publish on
this site if Bill requests it. 3) I am moving away from the
Watchtower organization – as stated before, there is
no hope… Thoughts for the website: 1) How about a link
to Jeff Anderson, the attorney for the two young women from
Minnesota? Not hard to do and it would be a great step in
providing the legal, financial, and psychological relief so
many who come here need. 2) Also, are there any therapists
who can be reached for those who need help? After reviewing
credentials (I believe this is a must) again, a link to contact
them could be set up. Random thoughts and visualization of
Jericho and Rahab. Will expand on later as I see and hear
the sound of trumpets and an assembly marching. There is … Dronj
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:24:17
Comments
Jesika and Bill Bowen were in Minnesota yesterday for a news
conference regarding a lawsuit filed by two woman. Here is
one link to one of the articles. http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/3588212.htm
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:26:52
Comments
Here is another link to another article regarding the news
conference Jesika and Bill Bowen were at yesterday. http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/breaking_news/3588930.htm
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:28:29
Comments
One more link to an article due to the news conference Jesika
and Bill Bowen were at yesterday. http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/07/02/jehovahs.witness.lawsuit.ap/index.html
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:35:56
Comments
To BON ...I'm sorry but I've heard about what you're referring
to but I don't have any information on it at this time. I
will see what I can find out. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:38:31
Comments
Hi, its me, little lost one. I've been reading all of this
and it has helped me so much to be confident in my decision
on disassociating myself. I no longer have part of my family
because their witnesses and my so called best friends are
no longer my best friends. I watched the news last night which
confirms that this is not an isolated case and that I'm not
irrational. That's what the elder told me. I'm
so thankful for everyone on this site and I'm very proud of
the victims coming out to tell their stories. Keep up the
good work. I have found a freedom I've never had before because
of the ones going on TV and on this site telling for THE TRUTH!!!
I love you all and may Jehovah bless all your honesty and
give you much peace. your friend, L.L.O
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:40:00
Comments
Hi, its me, little lost one. I've been reading all of this
and it has helped me so much to be confident in my decision
on disassociating myself. I no longer have part of my family
because their witnesses and my so called best friends are
no longer my best friends. I watched the news last night which
confirms that this is not an isolated case and that I'm not
irrational. That's what the elder told me. I'm
so thankful for everyone on this site and I'm very proud of
the victims coming out to tell their stories. Keep up the
good work. I have found a freedom I've never had before because
of the ones going on TV and on this site telling THE TRUTH!!!
I love you all and may Jehovah bless all your honesty and
give you much peace.. your friend, L.L.O
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
10:48:48
Comments
To Bon ...I have emailed Kent@observer.org to ask him your
question about the article with the date of 2003. Once I hear
back, I'll let you know. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
11:43:15
Comments
I keep seeing the word, "alleged" or "alleges" in
those news articles regarding the Silentlambs' cases. How
many have been proven guilty of molestation and got sentenced
to prison? ...Anyone knows?
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
11:56:43
Comments
SUCH AN UGLY REALITY. AS A FORMER JW, I AM APPALLED, BUT NOT
SURPRISED.
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
12:17:47
Comments
I'm looking at July 1, 2002 issue Watchtower ...hmm ...there
are articles on "Religious Icon", "Worship
God in Spirit", "Jehovah Beautifies His People With
Light", "Jehovah's Glory Shines on His People", "Is
Your Teaching Effective?", "Strengthened by Our
Worldwide Brotherhood", "Walking in Jehovah's Paths
Brings Rich Rewards", "International Convention
2003", and "Avoid Being Deceived". The last
article says, "Open your mind and heart to the one indisputable
source of religious truth, the Bible," and NOTHING about
'apostates' ...If the article mentioned above
is false, IT IS NOT HELPING THE SILENT LAMBS. It makes them
look bad to the whole world, and gives another excuse to the
Society to call these victims, "Apostates" ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
13:10:47
Comments
Here is the reply from Kent regarding the article with a 2003
date: I guess the article you are referring to is a joke :)
I don't remember who actually made it - but I'm sure that's
the one. It's been in there for a year and a half. Kent --- Original
Message --- From: Lin *** [mailto:linthoman@hotmail.com
Sent: 3. juli 2002 17:46 To: kent@observer.org Subject: Regarding
your site..a question Hi Kent, my name is Linda Thoman. I
heard about your site from someone who posted a link on silentlambs
Guestbook. The same person that put the link has asked me
about a possible typo error on your site and asked me if I
knew anything about it. The person said there is an article
on your site about a Watchtower with the date of 2003 ...not
2002. Was this a typo or did the Organization come out with
some "prophecy" for next year? I hope you will respond
quickly, although I'm sure you're busy there. Thank you in
advance. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
14:00:43
Comments
Thank you for your website. I'm relieved to see that my spouse
is not alone! He was raised in the JW religion and did not
even know his date of birth until he was in court testifying
to the repeated sexual abuse he endured from his step-father
( a JW). He never has fully understood why his mother (another
JW) stood by that man. The man was never sentenced either,
despite the accounted sexual and physical abuse of my husband,
his two brothers and the three daughters that his mother had
with the man. I myself, am doing school research for my RN
degree and stumbled across your site. Thanks again , Jenni
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
14:12:49
Comments
HI IT'S JESIKA again. It was amazing to be there for the press
conference in Minnesota!!!!!!!! The strength the two women
showed was something words can't describe. To DROJI-- Thank
you for the apology although I feel it isn't needed, to know
someone has seen how deep this problem is and to understand
the pain of those of us who have been through the persecution
of the WT is good enough for me. TO the LITTLE LOST ONE, you
have decided to disassociate yourself from the org, that is
not something we are trying to get people to do. If it is
a choice you have made for yourself, I just want you to know
we ALL support you. I hope the policy will change, and they
will admit it was wrong (I'm crossing my fingers). To the
person asking about the quotes of ALLEGED--the suit filed
in Minnesota was filed yesterday, so until proven guilty--you
know the rest.We all need to celebrate the stand so many are
beginning to have, no longer to fear the WT and the reason
for speaking out is not to lash out in anger, but it is because
it is the RIGHT THING TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look into the eyes
of the children around you and tell yourself to protect them
is your reason for coming forward to tell the truth. You can
be referred to as Joe or Jane Doe if you want privacy, but
you can still take the action that is needed!!!!!!!! CLASS
ACTION SUITS --- I promised I would ask the lawyers about
this and what it would take to do so. I was told by Jeff Anderson
personally in his office that to file such a suit would involve
everyone's experience to be the same. For example--when there
is a group of people hurt by the same product than all the
victims can come together in a class suit. Since the situation
here is so many people were abused by different people and
it was handled by different elders there are too many differences
for it to fall in the Class Action scenario. I will call Jeff
or Bill to see if I can post his phone #. He has already been
contacted (Jeff) by over 100 JW's and ex-JW's about the matter
of abuse. This was before the press conference. I will post
his info after I contact him and have his OK. Jesika Thoman
Dallas, Tx
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
15:08:22
Comments
Hey all ...here's another link to another article on the news
conference in Minnesota: http://www.kmsp.com/news/local/story.asp?content_id=1257723
Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
15:34:46
Comments
YOU CAN WATCH IT ON VIDEO --- on kstp.com is another place
to find the Minnesota story, but you can choose to watch the
news broadcast. I watched it and Heidi and Bill spoke on the
interview. Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
17:06:45
Comments
I am the wife of a man who was raised in a family of JW's(they
even donated their land to have a hall built).About three
years ago it came out that my husbands step-father molested
him when he was a child.What even shocked me more was to know
that his mother was aware of the molestation and of how it
was handled within the congregation. I now have a wonderful
spouse who deals with a lot of anger and rage and withdrawal
even now because of something that could have been handled
years ago. I believe that this is an organization that is a
breeding ground for child molesters. Something needs to be
done to keep these people from protecting the animals out
there who prey on our children!!
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
21:26:28
Comments
Would it be considered a class action law suit against the
WTS, since they dictate the "two witnesses", continued
to allow pedophiles to "serve" as elders or JW's
in good standing. Also, how they kept people from talking
calling it slander, so as to isolate victims from reality.
The articles written by the WTS about the Catholic Church
was a deep deception of hypocrisy giving the "impression" that
this situation would never ever exist with the Congregation
of Jehovah. The "product" was the "spiritual" food,
the direction of the elders and the claim that it was backed
with Holy Spirit. *** you probably have covered all this with
the attorney but just in case you haven't. *** I
spoke with a sister today, conversation ended with her "fleeing" from
me saying she didn't want to hear anymore. Heard the words "imperfect" again
and again. She Blames the naive parents. She showed no love
for the Malawis - called it just dirt being brought up. Told
me the congregation is being blessed by Jehovah because now
they have over 100 people there on Sunday. She questioned
how I was being "fed" - I told her I have Jehovah
and the bible and she said that wasn't enough. The main impression
I was left with is that she showed absolutely no compassion,
not for the victims of pedophiles (she said they needed to
get over it!) and showed no interest at all in my concerns
and said I was being picky. She acted as if we were having
a conversation about trivial matters, not grave concerns and
that I had the attitude problem. She just kept defending the
WTS with their imperfection and that Jehovah knows what goes
on behind close doors and that it was none of our business.
mmmmmm ...Of course she doesn't really know how grave the
problems are - she didn't want to hear of it. I was dismissed,
I am sure, as a person who Satan has taken over. She was very
angry as she walked away. *** She is lacking in
love for the individual, everything is for the WTS. I did
say to her to be careful that she not worshipping an organization.
Oh, well, I do not have any tact as we all know. C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
21:43:02
Comments
Subject: Kingdom Halls and Mail boxes Mailing Campaign Fallout
Recently, Kingdom Halls of Jehovah's Witnesses were the largest
group of intended recipients of an international mailing campaign,
spanning all fifty states of the United States and including
the countries of Canada and England.The results in the US
have been interesting, and could have far-reaching effects
on our legal system and on the preaching practices of Jehovah's
Witnesses.Over a hundred years ago, a group of evangelical
apocryphal persons calling themselves "Bible Students" began
a campaign to sell Bible-based literature at homes throughout
the United States. From time to time, their efforts faced
legal challenges, some were won and some were lost, but in
general the door-to-door campaigns have continued unabated,
with varying degrees of success. (Some years the Witnesses
reported growth, some years not).In late 1979, the Watchtower
Bible and Tract Society issued in its members-only bulletin "Our
Kingdom Ministry" (KM) that: "At times mail addressed
to the Kingdom Hall is returned to the Society or to others
who write. It is marked as being undeliverable for various
reasons, usually because there is no mailbox for receiving
mail. We recommend that at the next elders meeting the presiding
overseer discuss with the body of elders how this can be remedied.
If there is a problem at the local post office, this can be
discussed with an official at the post office in an effort
to clear it up."Now why, one may ask, have Jehovah's Witnesses
suddenly removed mailboxes from their Kingdom Halls, to the
point where their parent organization has to make a public
announcement? "Perhaps the answer can be found in the
December 1982 issue of the KM: "Occasionally we meet
householders in our territory who are very opposed to our
work and message. Some have even threatened us. If some adamantly request
that none of Jehovah's Witnesses call at their homes again,
such requests should be respected. A note with the name and
address of such a person should be given to the brother assigned
to care for the territory. He should also date the note and
state on it the specific nature of the difficulty. Thereafter,
each publisher who is asked to work this territory should
be especially careful to avoid irritating the householder
and not call at his home. Review Kingdom Ministry of June 1974,
Question Box."The June 1974 KM says in part: "When
we meet persons who are very much opposed and who request
that we not call at their home again, we will respect their
wishes in the matter.." But then it goes on to say:"If
one is not certain about the householders still living there
in time a tactful inquiry can be made." It goes on to
say: "Where there are signs saying "No Peddlers
or Solicitors," and so forth, it may be best to identify
yourselves as one of Jehovah's witnesses, taking the viewpoint
that such signs do not apply to our work. Where signs specifically
state that no religious calls be made or that Jehovah's witnesses
not call, it may be well to talk personally to the householder," This
1974 statement may explain why, by 1979, the parent organization
has to contend in writing with its own returned mail!!!So
how do you get Jehovah's Witnesses NOT to come to your door?
Put up a NO JW sign? They will come to your door ANYWAY. Put
up a No Peddlers/Solicitors sign? They will come to your door
ANYWAY! Politely ask them to return? They will only respect
your wishes if you are "adamant" or "very much
opposed" and even then, only for some indeterminate length
of time.So the alternative is to write your Kingdom Hall a
letter demanding no more visits. Which must have been what
some householders had tried to do. The local response? NO
MAILBOXES!!! Your letter will just be returned. There is no
way to ensure respect for your privacy and property rights.
The situation has not improved with time. Since 1967, Watchtower
has been sending known and even in some cases criminally convicted
child molesters and rapists to peoples doors. In 2002, an
episode of the television show "Dateline" showed
two child molesters (one a convicted rapist) going door to
door. A few years ago, a member of the group known as "Associated
Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood" began a Kingdom
Hall mailing campaign, but it had to be stopped because of
the many letters returned, most of which were marked as undeliverable
because of no mailboxes. There is no doubt that these conflicts
can and will erupt into confrontations. In May of 2001, it
was reported that a Cleona PA woman won a $600.00 plus judgment
against two Witnesses who "drove down a 300 foot lane
past 8 no trespassing signs and 3 dog warning signs." On
the website http://www.do-not-call.org/ there is related a
story A MOTHER of three children became so fed up with Jehovah's
Witnesses calling at her home that she interrupted their Sunday
service by banging on their church door and offering them
free magazines. She is related as saying that it wasn't the
religion that she was upset with, but their persistent proselytizing
at her door.The posting of a no-trespassing sign will not
solve the problem of the Witnesses calling at your door anyway,
but in addition some property owners WANT the Girl Scouts
and Greenpeace and organizations like this to come to their
doors. Should their desire for privacy be an all-or-nothing
affair?Is it only the non-Witness public that is not safe
from unsolicited visits from Witnesses? Apparently not; consider
this statement from the attorney for William H. Bowen, a Jehovah's
Witness and former elder of his congregation, in a letter
to his former colleagues: "It is also noted that on Friday,
May 24, 2002 you contacted my client by telephone, to which
you were verbally informed to only contact his attorney for
any type of communication. Mr. Bowen has clearly made his
request known in a letter written on October 31, 2001, where
he stated 1.Any further communication must be in writing and
sent to my attorney.:.Any verbal communication from this point
forward will be considered harassment as you have repeatedly
disregarded my request for answers in writing.3.I am formally
requesting that no Jehovah's Witness elder or member trespass
on my property at any time.. In February of 2002 two Jehovah's
Witnesses were sent to my clients home. My client respectfully
asked them to leave. Then on another occasion George Bandarra
who is well familiar with all correspondence as chairman of
the judicial committee chose to ignore my clients request
by calling him over the telephone on 5-24-02. My client instructed
Mr. Bandarra very clearly all communication must go through
his attorney. Yet again, Mr. Bandarra and Jeff Stein ignored
my clients request by trespassing on his property June 01,
2002. Mr. Bandarra and Mr. Stein approached the property in
a covert fashion coming to the back door and pounding quite
loudly, thus frightening children in the home. My client again
informed Mr. Bandara and Mr. Stein of his request of all communication
going through his attorney and shut the door, at which Mr.
Bandarra again disregarded my clients request by throwing
a letter on a chair in my clients back yard. This now makes
three occasions Jehovah's Witnesses have chosen to disregard
clear and explicit instructions to not trespass and harass
my client. Any further infractions will result in criminal
charges being leveled at your lack of respect for my clients
wishes ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=29568&site=3)Or
this communication from Barbara Anderson, a Jehovah's Witness,
to her elders in Tennessee: "I further request that all
communication be conducted with my attorney, The telephone
call to me from Larry Seely did not honor previous demands
for all communications to go through my attorney only." (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=29637&site=3
) The elders response? "We note that you letter said
that you prefer to communicate with the committee through
your attorney. We fail to see why this is necessary or even
needed ...We trust this explains why the involvement of an
attorney is unnecessary and why we are communicating with
you directly rather than through an attorney". One of
the results of this most recent mailing campaign is a large
number of letters marked "return to sender" usually
as a result of there being no delivery receptacle. This basically
brings to a screeching halt almost any attempts by homeowners
to be undisturbed by Jehovah's Witnersses.The pulling of the
Kingdom Hall mailboxes and the unwillingness of Jehovah's Witnesses
to respect the privacy and property rights not only of the
non-Witness public but also their own Witness members only
exacerbates an already out-of-control situation. The residents
of Stratton Ohio recently tried to wrest back some control
of door-to-door solicitation, but the Supreme Court held that
portions of the statute was too broadly worded and they were
struck down. Stratton Ohio has vowed not to give up.The gauntlet
has been thrown down; who will pick it up next? Hey Y'all ...I
found this on woman-awake, a yahoo group. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
03 Jul 2002
Time:
23:22:58
Comments
To every Silent Lamb small victory here in Missouri, legislation
just passed that Clergy (YES THAT MEANS EVEN THE ELDERS LOL)
HAVE to report suspected child abuse YEA!!!! Now they at least
will be going against Caesar's law LOL My husband has been
wanting to post a sign at our ex-congregation that says "Pedophiles
Paradise" since her in Missouri it's been too quite about
the Dateline show. Maybe this will save some children from
the pain if not maybe some elder will have to spend some time
in jail for shielding perverts Love ya all Sheila Madonia
Remote User:
Date:
04 Jul 2002
Time:
02:16:36
Comments
To Linda Thoman: Linda I recommended the book (R. Franz) to
a JW I'm emailing with and he gave me this answer; (don't
laugh;-) I'm not afraid of reading. I just have read too much
bullshit books up to know full of wannabe evidences etc. It's
always the same, many of the people that are disfellowshipped
because of certain reasons aren't content not to be a Witness
anymore. There proud is broken, they are angry like hell.
So they start to become opponents, searching faults or mistakes
everywhere, picking cases where people acted incorrectly,
making a big story out of it. Or, the second well-known way,
is that they complain about how much they have suffered from
that bad bad organization, what they had to do all the time,
as if they would have been slave. Perhaps they want to calm
their conscience by doing this or want to prove themselves
that it's good that they are now out and not a JW anymore.
And concerning the Government Body, openly speaking I care
a shit about what they are accused of or not. This Mme Linda
Noname states that you should find out yourself what is going
on - but by reading someone else's book full of made up "evidences",
of somebody who bears grudges against the organization he once
belonged to (if it's true what he claims). Funnily these books
are not written be people who are standing outside - never
having been a witness - perhaps a journalist who gets into
the issue without any prejudices. OK, enough written, there
are more important things for me to do at the moment.
Remote User:
Date:
04 Jul 2002
Time:
07:01:24
Comments
Thanks for the info on C.T. Russell ...I guess the next step
would be to try to find a birth date for Rose Ball ...somewhere
around the late 1800's or early 1900's. Probably in Allegheny?
The records for these kinds of things are usually very exact
and obituaries of that time are usually quite detailed ...Thanks
again.
Remote User:
Date:
04 Jul 2002
Time:
07:02:30
Comments
ps - ever ask a borg why there are pyramids on top of the
Brooklyn building?????
Remote User:
Date:
04 Jul 2002
Time:
12:34:19
Comments
TO C.E. --- The Class Action suits have to have many many
similarities. Yes you are right about the policy being the
same everywhere, the problem is the victims were handled
by different people in almost every instance. Jeff Anderson
gave me an example of a situation that the Class Action would
apply ... If he could find about 150 victims that were
abused by the same person- then it would fall under Class
Action. Which he said is very unlikely to find that many people
abused by the same person. Even if the scenario exists it
is unlikely to have all the victims come forth. The comment
about them holding high positions is a problem that has to
be handled but I think the key is getting enough people to
file suit and bring this to the attention of the media and
the law. It is even stated in their policy that a know molester
can hold a position after decades of not having been accused.
You can read it on their web site. I think it is watchtower.org
it is on the front page. It is interesting the example they
give to explain why they choose to do this. It is a scenario
that would never happen. With all the double talk it is most
of the time overlooked, so read carefully it is quite sad
when you see how ignorant it truly is. I had someone contact
me through my aunt Linda Thoman and asked a question regarding
the Class suits that I could not answer. I will be getting
info on the question and if it does fit under the Class requirements
I will post it. Thanks Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx
Remote User:
Date:
04 Jul 2002
Time:
22:34:30
Comments
"
Never argue with a man whose job depends on not being convinced.
-H.L. Mencken
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
12:33:26
Comments
I TALKED TO BILL about posting Jeff Anderson's phone # and
he told me that Jeff gets so many calls a day it would be
better if everyone calls the hotline # it is 1-877-WTABUSE.
That way no one will fall through the cracks and they can get
individual attention and help or legal direction. Love Jesika
Thoman Dallas, Tx
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
13:48:48
Comments
Interesting insights on how JW's think at http://jwzone.org
This page is off note: http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=2ee1a9e18ce2ac278a3d82226fa72767&postid=114070#post114070
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
13:50:01
Comments
http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=2ee1a9e18ce2ac278a3d82226fa72767&postid=114070#post114070
let's see if sets up the link properly this time, if not
you can always copy and paste.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
13:51:27
Comments
One more time here comes a link from http://jwzone.org ***
http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=113836#post113836
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
14:00:06
Comments
http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=104363#post104363
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
16:05:57
Comments
I listened to the video and printed the transcript on the
Education on Child Abuse Through Publications of Jehovah's
Witnesses - speakers are Stark,Infante and Dickey. *** these
are my thoughts: Dr. Infante says"If there was any organization
that was trying to educate their members about issues related
to sexual abuse, I certainly do no think that they would be
harboring pedophiles. Certainly not knowingly" *** this
is exactly what I THOUGHT AND THAT IS WHY THIS IS A BETRAYAL
BY THE WTS. #2 these articles on child molestation appeared
in the AWAKE, not the Watchtower, therefore directed to the
general public rather than members of the congregation. #3
If WTS wanted us to know they would have told us, had Sunday
Watchtower Studies that reflected this problem within the
congregation and be absolutely open as to what to expect in
a Judicial committee and the rights of a person in the country
that they reside in. #4Stark, Infante and Dickey were paid
and do not have an unbiased opinion nor do they address the
fact that there has to be two witnesses to the crime. Stark,
Infante and Dickey do not have any interest other than to
support the position of the WTS and get paid. from C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
16:24:56
Comments
More video and transcript: By Dr. Bethea-Jackson who states
that although she went to the most prestigious social-work
schools, they did not teach a course in child abuse. WTS has
the word of God in their hand, and knows that God forbids
pedophilia and the abuse of children, yet they hide behind
the words and education of a Licensed Clinical Social Worker.
The video is called The Progressive Understanding of Child
Abuse for Society in General and can be viewed on the Watchtower
official web site. I guess we need social workers to tell
us what is right and what is wrong or at least wait for them
to catch up to the ancient book called the Bible. C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
17:32:20
Comments
C.E.-Thank you for the update on Mr. Stark. I had asked if
he was paid or a member in a much earlier post. (And read
some of his essays on the net) What he said seems quite biased
and would bring into question why the WTS is constantly mocking
and putting down everyone, every country, and every other
religion but somehow it is exempt from the Stark assessment.
It seems very queer to me (his) argument in support of the
WTS philosophy. I can not express how much I feel (I know
to feel is a four letter word) for the people effected by
the issues that are brought up on this site. Am I shocked?
No. Angry? Of course! But not at the JW religion or even it's
members. They have my pity. I have to comment that I was upset
when I read that Mr. Bowen stated that his issue was not about
WT doctrine it is about breaking the law. But, after a bit
I realize just how right he is. It is not about doctrine at
all. It is about criminal behavior.(Romans 13)I have never
met Bill but he certainly has my respect. As do the people
that are willing to confront this issue and make change.-Sequia
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
20:13:07
Comments
Today's date is July 5, 2002
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
20:37:28
Comments
Dear sister, I will be glad to put your comments up on the
silentlambs website. I encourage you to read carefully the
instructions on the “abused lambs” page, if you
do you will note that page is reserved for stories of abuse
by molestation survivors. Your story does not seem to meet
the criteria there. The “poems and thoughts” page
is also reserved for offering comforting scriptures, poems,
and thoughts to abuse victims. After reading carefully your
comments I find it difficult to believe that they could fit
in that category. May I suggest you review 1 Cor. 13:1-3 and
please meditate on what it has to say, then ask yourself a
question, Where is love to be found in my comments to abuse
survivors? I will post your comments on the Guestbook along
with mine so many others will be able to see how people who
refuse to educate themselves think. I would encourage you
to study closely the silentlambs website and think about how
you could better support survivors of abuse. silentlambs My
story is this! I bet this will not even be put on your web
site. You have been very much abused by these individuals.
Jehovah knows every hair count on your head. Don't you think
he knows what pain you all are going through! Remember, those
individuals who did you wrong even though they may hide it,
has an accounting with the most high God Jehovah. Where is
your faith? Your LOVE for Jehovah? Yes, all of you have been
bitterly hurt and even wrongly persecuted from individuals,
injustice. But, are you serving Jehovah only DURING the good
times or even during the ROUGH times? Remember David in the
bible who was persecuted and even chased down by a murder
King Saul who was a servant of Jehovah? David didn't give
up serving Jehovah and jumping ship in Jehovah's one and only
true faith! His love and faith in Jehovah helped him to endure!
Why are you letting MEN that are guilty and Jehovah KNOWS
who they are, to destroy your love and trust in Jehovah. Jehovah
is looking down at this and probably has TEARS because of the
pain you all have went through. But to give in to Satan and
his perversion of Men, even among God's people, is not worth
giving up your Love for Jehovah and saying good bye to him
and his True Faith. Many things will happen in the faith,
from even our so called brothers will hurt us just like in
Germany when so-called brothers turned their backs on there
close friends. But look at how the brothers in Germany that
were in prison and some even brutally raped. They STILL served
Jehovah and kept faithful to the end. They continued in Malawi
even when they were mutilated and raped continually. They
STILL Stayed with Jehovah and his true faith. I urge you to
NOT let your bitterness make Jehovah have more TEARS. It isn't
his fault and he will make the needed changes in his organization
to protect his loved ones just like he made adjustments in
Israel's time and held those people accountable! Its one thing
to talk about the problems at hand and yes, YOU WERE HURT
by these men, But it is another thing to put down, Jehovah's
WHOLE organization because of some SAULS that are out there!!
A brother put it to me this way ...Picture a Jet going through
the sky and taking you to a better place. Say that you were
sitting right next to a Brother and he started to abuse you
and persecute you and accuse you and hurt you continually.
What would you do? Would you say "I can't take this anymore
and even the stewards are not doing anything about this individual
so I will just give up and jump out the window of the plane!" No,
you would not jump out of the plane. What you would probably
do is MOVE SEATS and let the pilot and stewards deal with
it all so you can continue in your trip. You are at the back
of the plane, probably hurt and complaining which is normal,
but you wait patiently until you land the plane. Your patients
paid off because when you were getting off the plane the Pilot
shook your hand and hug you and said we are sorry for all
the pain you had to endure while on your journey. As you look
you see dozens of police officers taking different people
that were on the plane, harassing others off to Jail! Are
You not glad that you did not jump off the Jet? Were you not
happy to let everyone see the pilot hug you and reward you
for your patients which exonerate you for all the ones that
maybe didn't believe you? Your endurance through these hard
times paid off for you. The moral of the story is just because
some So-called brothers are pretending and doing wrong and
hurting you. THEY will NOT get by with it and the GREAT PILOT
JEHOVAH will remove those false brothers. You paid for your
ticket by getting baptized and entered in Jehovah's Jet and
put full trust that this IS the plane that will get me to
the place I hoped and dreamed of with all my heart, soul and
mind and You put trust in your pilot to get you there! Please,
hurt one's out there! Don't jump out of the jet and say bad
things about the Jet and the pilot and the very loving good
people like yourselves that are in the jet too, trying to
endure and even crying tears over some others hurting them.
The Great pilot can NOT be FOOLED!!! It hurts others who are
very good servants of Jehovah that we are slandered as that
ALL JEHOVAH'S servants are bad or that we are a bunch of child
molesters. That hurts me to think that all that I have endured
that I and MOST of Jehovah's Witnesses are put in the same
category as those false brothers. Jehovah, remember, says
that he puts all of our tears in a bottle and remembers it!
Psalms 56:8 Job felt the same way at JOB 4:1 He was hurt by
his so-called comforters. But remember Jehovah provided Job
with at least one GOOD COMFORTER? Job continued to endure
and he did not ONCE curse Jehovah and his organization. So
please don't give up and jump off the jet and slander it.
What else is there out there? Continue, do not let these individuals
turn and discourage your dedication to Jehovah no matter WHAT
persecution comes your way. Persecution is more hurtful if
it comes from your very own brother doesn't it. Well don't
you think Satan knows what would break your faith. We live
in the 2002 now and here in the USA we are not physical persecuted
like in the Holocaust because it DIDN'T WORK, so Satan hits
us where it really can be confusing and hurtful among our
friends and brothers. Don't play his game don't let him win
to separate your love for Jehovah!. KEEP remembering David
and all that he endured and don't forget JOB who not once
talked bad or cursed Jehovah and his earthly organization.
Keep going to the meetings and go there for one PURPOSE and
that is to please Jehovah and not men. sincerely from Those
who love Jehovah and are good people in his organization and
see your tears and are enduring also, but not giving in to
Satan's plots to destroy are love for the whole association
of our brothers world wide.
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
20:53:48
Comments
Hello all. It's been a while since I've been able to write,
but I've caught up on all of the entries and some are quite
inspiring, while others infuriate me! To Jesika and her family:
may Jehovah bless you. I truly believe that no one is bound
by an organization; we can believe in God without submitting
to "cult-like" beliefs. I find it quite moving that
you behold such bravery to stand up and fight the evil within
the WTS. You WILL make a difference in many peoples lives,
especially the children. I only wish other JW's could see
the deception within the organization. It took me 20 years,
but I finally followed my heart and made the decision to leave.
It pains me that by doing this I am essentially "dead" to
members of my family, including my own mother, but I refuse
to pass this partiality on to my own child. For those of you
who have entered comments regarding the "ease" of
reporting abuse, you will NEVER UNDERSTAND the difficulty
involved in doing this. Even the elders are not aware of what
goes on "behind closed doors". My brother, a P.O.,
is probably not aware of the secrecy, although, as an abused
child himself, he should be able to recognize the deception
and fight these illegal policies. BUT,he is driven by power.
That is what the organization is all about, POWER. That is
why we, as victims, don't feel comfortable coming forth and
reporting our abuse. The "Fear of Jehovah" is always
looming above us. But it's really not the fear of Jehovah because
he would never allow this to continue. Rather, it is the fear
of losing your family, friends and the only life you know.
I have been on "THE OTHER SIDE" both as a JW and
a victim of abuse. I speak with "true knowledge" that
I personally experienced, rather than research done at a library.
You can't compare JW's with Catholics on any level. Even if
a Catholic commits an "evil" act, they are not ex-communicated
by their family and friends. This is a very important control
tactic used by JW's. It is extremely difficult to make the
decision to leave all those who "supposedly" love
you. I would compare it to "coming out" as a gay
to a non-liberal family, but multiply that by 100! The ONLY
reason my abuse case was taken to court was because several "worldly" people
(neighbors, teachers and other school personnel) reported
the extreme abuse they witnessed my step-father inflicting
on us. If it weren't for those people, the case would've remained
a "secret" for fear of damaging the reputation of
the organization. WELL FINALLY THE "TRUTH" IS COMING
OUT!!! Good luck to all those forging ahead and making a difference!
And thank you all for giving me the courage to come forth
and say "I AM NOT AN APOSTATE, I AM A VICTIM!" May
this website save just ONE child from the horror I've survived.
geanaz@msn.com
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
20:57:06
Comments
Bill, I have just read the passage the "sister" had
written. I haven't picked up a bible in a long time, only
to cross-reference Ray Franz's book. After reading the passage
she wrote I had to see what 1Cor 13:1-3 had to say. You were
right on the nose with that one!!!!!!! The only thing these
people are concerned about is the slander against the org.
Correct me if I am wrong, isn't it slander if it isn't true!!!!
They don't see that it will be a bigger problem if the policy
doesn't change. It is always wait on Jah. Well, I waited for
22yrs for something to be done, and low and behold it has
been exposed in the media and the law suits have only just
begun. How else would the policy change? Why can't they see
THAT as a sign from Jah. It is only a sign when it is a favorable
one!!!!!!! It truly amazes me how blind and unloving they
can be, well I expect it but it just makes me shake my head
to know at one time I was the same way!!! I am glad to be
of my own mind and not a robot anymore!! Love Jesika Thoman,
Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
05 Jul 2002
Time:
23:20:58
Comments
THE "true faith"?? as in religion or as faith in
Jehovah? The ones who "walk away" from the WTS aka
as "the faith" have true faith in Jehovah. They
thankfully are not on a JET, but on earth! They got off the
JET safe and are being comforted by Jehovah. They have not
abandoned God and His Truth. The Jet was hijacked and has
now safely landed and the hijackers will be brought to justice.
Jehovah has so many tears for these hurt ones, that He moved
someone to do something about it. Jehovah has not abandoned
one of these silentlambs and never will. King David was a
grown man being pursued by a grown man - he had the capacity
to spiritually, emotionally and physically protect himself.
You cannot compare the incomprehensible horror of child sexual
abuse, and trivialize it by calling it "persecution." That
is an excuse to do nothing about it while attending meetings.
*** JEHOVAH GOD HAS ALREADY HELPED THOSE WHO
ARE HURTING. THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT ANYMORE. Jehovah already
loves the silentlambs and Hates Injustice, here, now, today
!No more waiting *** The "jet" story is just
a story to say that there is no way off or out, which is a
lie. Jehovah is the Sovereign of the Universe and HE ALWAYS
MAKES A WAY OUT. Jehovah exists without the WTS, not the other
way around. *** soap box
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
01:16:23
Comments
Very well said, soap box! ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
02:28:01
Comments
Thanks SoapBox-the "sister" is willfully stupid
on this issue. I think she is referring to an airplane graveyard
though. I don't think that the plane is off the ground nor
was it ever. I am not "bitter" at the JW's but comments
like that ...Man she just doesn't get it.-Sequia
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
08:24:48
Comments
HI Everyone, It's Barbara again, I have been thinking about
this so much lately and would like to offer some help in this
area if I can. I am in Florida, in the Tampa Bay Area, if
any of you are here and would like to put your heads together
with mine and work something out for the good of the children.
Or if you know of anyone going through a court case that would
just need some support, please let me know, I will be more
than happy to help any and every way that I can. Praying for
all of you, Barbara
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
08:25:22
Comments
Oh Man! Gotta trim these fingernails, typo city!!! Sorry bout
that! Barb
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
09:09:06
Comments
LOL! Sorry, I couldn't help but laugh about what was posted
directly to me above. To the person who posted that to me ...it
doesn't surprise me at all. I still laugh at people's ignorance
and denial. It's so easy to sit back and say we are just "complainers" and
others to call us Apostates, etc. It makes me very angry when
people post messages about our "lack of faith" etc.
Let me tell you something from my personal view ...During
my fifteen year marriage to an abusive Witness man, I prayed
and prayed and prayed to God, with sobbing and tears strolling
down my face, many times to where I couldn't say my prayers
out loud but crying through them all and making silent prayers.
Every single time ...and I mean every time ...I prayed about
my situation with my husband, what came to my mind was the
phrase, "You CAN get a divorce". But, I immediately
felt dazed by this, very confused to say the least, since
I was taught as a Witness that you have to stay together no
matter what. And to be straight forward here, I actually BELIEVED
that the words "For better or WORSE" must have meant
being knocked around by your spouse. I actually believed that!!!
I went to the Elders more times than I can count, they came
and counseled him, telling him he WOULD be DF'd if his behavior
towards me didn't stop, etc etc. Well ...you can imagine what
happened once the Elders left our home! I separated from my
husband three different times, for a brief period, and EVERY
single time my father would tell me to "get your butt
home where you belong". Never so much as ask me what
had happened, never giving me the opportunity to speak, just
get home where you belong. The third time I left my husband
and my father showed up where I was staying, I didn't give
HIM opportunity to talk ...I simply stood at the door and told
him he had wasted a trip, that I would not be dictated to
by him to go back to my husband when he himself had no idea
why I had left in the first place! He left in tears. The tremendous
confusion I experienced with praying with my "whole heart,
mind and soul" brought me almost to a nervous breakdown.
I momentarily considered racing through a very busy intersection
in hopes that I would crash badly and my pain would be over.
My next thought was of my children, and how I couldn't leave
my children with that man. I then began a plan of action that
took six months to get ready. After all those years of prayers,
with "answers?" being that I could get a divorce,
and no support or help from my father the P.O., I decided
that getting a divorce would be best for me and my children,
otherwise my parents/family/children would be attending my
funeral at the hands of my husband. The entire time I was
planning, saving money for a lawyer and moving expenses, I
cannot tell you the immense guilt I felt because I was taught
I couldn't leave my husband. After I had all the money I would
need, I told my husband to get his *&^%^$# out!!! Oh..he
cried and begged and pleaded and made those same old pathetic
promises he'd never do it again, yadda yadda yadda. But, I
didn't feel a twinge of guilt from the moment I told him I
was divorcing him.>>>>To people who have the nerve
to say we have no faith in God and are only complainers ...walk
in our shoes for just one day! Go through the hell each of
us has gone through in full scale and see how you would feel! >>>I
STILL have faith in God, but my life has brought me to a place
where I am totally lost as to what teachings are really the
TRUTH and which are not. I constantly think that everyone
has their own interpretation of scripture, so many religions
today, how am I supposed to muddle through all the mucky muck
and figure out whether I should or shouldn't believe in a
Trinity, Hellfire, Holidays, etc. I am at a total loss! I
have attended different churches, and I still believe in God
and have faith in Him. But when sermons teach things different
than what Witnesses teach and are in the back of mind, I feel
a real sense of confusion, my thoughts racing like a tornado
through my brain. No one can tell me that I don't have faith
in God, no one. But my life as a Witness was only one of pain
and abuse at the hands of those who claim to care and love
you. My reason for speaking out has nothing to do with complaining.
Most of us who have been molested, raped, sodomized and other
forms of abuse within the Organization have been kept in a
mental prison because of Witness rules. If we speak out we're
condemned as apostates, which only safeguards the perpetrators
of our abuse. If we keep silent, we continue living in our
personal Hell which STILL protects the perpetrators. We are
damned if we do and damned if we don't. Change must be made
within the hierarchy of the organization. Whether what is
taught by Witnesses is the Truth or not, is not the basis
for victims speaking out, and I no longer have the desire
to put forth the energy trying to figure out who teaches the
truth or not. I live my life as best I can, doing good towards
others, etc and I will answer to the Lord when that day comes.
Linda Thoman ...I'm sorry I haven't been here for a few
days. Yesterday, July 5th, was my birthday and we had some
partying to do!!! LOL Plus for some unknown reason, my browser
on my personal computer kept telling me the site was not accessible.
I'm posting this on my Fiance's computer.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
09:20:37
Comments
Angel31 I HAD PROOF OF MY DAD MOLESTING ME AND HE STILL GOT
OFF THE HOOK THE DAMN BASTARD HE WAS A GOOD CITIZEN PROVIDED
FOR HIS FAMILY SO THAT MADE ME OUT TO BE THE BAD ONE AND THE
PERVERT GOT OFF SO DON'T ASSUME THAT ALL PEOPLE DON'T REPORT
MOLESTATION CAUSE THEY DO SOME OF THE SYSTEM IS ON THE SIDE
OF THE PERVERTS PENNY
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
09:48:01
Comments
Linda, VERY WELL SAID!:::::::::::::::This issue is not matter
of who got the right doctrines but of the abused victims ...Even
if the Watchtower Society got every doctrine right, if they
practice bad deeds, they have to take the responsibility/
punishment just like the ancient Israelites did. THIS IS A
MATTER OF MORAL AND BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!To
those calling theses victims "apostates", SHOW ME
WHERE IN THE BIBLE SAYS THAT IT IS O. K. TO PROTECT THE PEDOPHILES
AND THE ABUSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I can't believe the WTS
has this much nerve after making all those false prophecies
( 1914, 1925,1975 ) and having destroyed so many lives along
the way. I'm not going to go there now because I don't think
it is relevant to the Silent Lambs ...They,
the WTS, should be humble, honest, and loving. Yes, really
loving. Jehovah, out God is THE Loving God. Jesus said that
we'll see by their fruits ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
09:55:18
Comments
By the way, to those still denying these victims and supporting
the WTS's policies, LOOK UP EZEKIEL 3:18 - 21 ...There
is another Ezekiel verse saying that it is wrong to say that
the wicked is right and the righteous is wicked. Can't remember ...x-p ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
10:14:24
Comments
Is there anyone pursuing a legal case against the WTS in the
San Francisco Bay Area?
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
11:37:37
Comments
HI, I think this website is wonderful. I'm no longer a witness
and I'm thankful I got out. I think all of you are strong and
I now know that a loving God would never tell us to hide abuse
or make us put our faith in a human org. I love reading all
of the comments on this site. I see so many different feelings
on what's going on. I'm saddened for the abuse victims. I do
hope they change their policy too but even if they do I will
never go back!! To little lost one: Your not lost anymore!
You have your own mind now so Go girl or boy!! I know that
if you had the strength to leave; you will have the strength
to find what God really wants from you. I know because I'm
a lot like you and I have found a lot of happiness since I
left. Good luck and hope to hear from you again. Thanks to
Jesica and Linda you both have been helping a lot of lost
ones that come to this site and I hope that your lives will
be filled with happiness. Great pulling together!! we really
need to do that when crap like this is going on in religions ...
Talk to you soon! U.R.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
12:40:59
Comments
Linda - dare I say "Happy Birthday"???? ***
I totally relate about listening to "doctrine",
it gives me knots in my stomach. Not interested anymore in
hearing about it. *** I say that the 10 commandments,
having faith in One God and Jesus is plenty to do! *** A lot
of people are so busy with "doctrine" issues that
they haven't the time to be Christian in behavior or develop
a relationship with God or learn Faith. Being a Christian
is simple and joyful once we get to it. Christianity is retrieving
our "common sense" and critical thinking power (perceptive
powers) which were taken from us with lies, and confusion.
We know Jehovah made us in His Image and Jehovah is not confused
nor does he confuse His Sheep. *** Am I getting back on
my soap box??? Lies dull the perceptive powers and that is
why Jehovah hates a liar. The problem in the Garden of Eden
began with a LIE AND IN THE END THE TRUTH WILL PREVAIL. Love,
C.E.
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
14:35:09
Comments
Chill my uptight bros. http://www.geocities.com/br_burns/number5.html
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
14:41:38
Comments
The Top Ten Ways To Look More Spiritual Than You Really Are
# 10 - Always hold your chin and keep a serious look on your
face at the meetings, and whenever someone comments, nod your
head # 9 - Offer the friends suggestions on how they could
have done better on their talk # 8 - Always talk about the
time you placed 10 magazines in 15 minutes # 7- Sing louder
than everyone else at the meeting # 6 - Bring both insight
volumes with you to every meeting # 5 - Start every comment
by saying " In harmony with brother __________ 's comment,
and make sure you always cover the A and B part # 4 - After
the meeting, continue singing the song that was just sung
to close the meeting # 3 - Wear field service clothes to the
congregation picnic # 2 - Ask everyone do they think they
are working in harmony with God's will # 1 - When someone
at your job asks you what you're doing for lunch, tell them
you're going to apply 1 Corinthians 15:33 Copied to poor choice
of red on blue original. Da' link, http://www.geocities.com/br_burns/number8.html
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
14:49:20
Comments
Exceptionally bad JW humor. http://www.geocities.com/br_burns/number13.html
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
15:08:27
Comments
Classic JW humor. http://www.geocities.com/br_burns/number25.html
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
15:29:50
Comments
Highly spiritual JW humor. http://www.geocities.com/br_burns/41.html
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
15:32:23
Comments
Highly Spiritual JW humor Part two. http://www.geocities.com/br_burns/42.html
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
20:28:26
Comments
Yes, Happy Birthday Linda! Happy Happy Day!!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
20:31:25
Comments
I think your web site is a great contribution to many people
who have been abused and then thrown away. Shows them they
are not alone and they can and will survive. I hope more sites
like this develop. Thank you for what you are doing. MKS
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
20:34:31
Comments
Why isn't anyone on the chat line ever? How about we all set
a time and meet on the chat line? What time works for you
all? U.R
Remote User:
Date:
06 Jul 2002
Time:
23:03:19
Comments
The chat line is so slow, that it would take forever to get
any deep thought across, that is why I am sure none of us
use it. Fast and efficient it is not.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
03:23:48
Comments
DEAR MR. BOWEN, PLEASE CLOSE THIS SITE DOWN, IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU HAVE LEFT JEHOVAH. PLEASE RETURN BEFORE ITS TO LATE.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
07:30:48
Comments
Show me a man (or woman) who condemns another by saying that
Jehovah has left his child and I will show you a man (or women)
who has condemned him (or her ) self. Enough said. BLM
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
07:36:33
Comments
now where did that 't' come from LOL :-) BLM
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
08:11:21
Comments
Re: "Correct Doctrine" - JWs fall HEAVILY into the
syndrome of 'can't see the forest for the trees'. They are
IMMERSED in the trees, consumed by them, glued to them, reverent
of them, and completely blinded by them. And the big picture?
They haven't a clue. They don't even recognize that there
IS such a thing as a 'big picture'.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
08:42:36
Comments
To the lost ones ...It is common that XJWs want NOTHING To
do with almost any religion. And yet, I think it is obvious,
as stated in the very beginning of the Catholic Catechism
that, "Man is a religious being'. We even almost all
gesture to the exact same place (our hearts) when we speak
of God [actually not sure if that's true for JWs, however].
We KNOW, in our hearts, that God is close by. Especially those
of us who have suffered ...He's stood VERY CLOSE to us ...
I stayed away from ANY religion for 12 years after leaving
JWs. Then made the rounds of many, many different churches
and denominations. Also explored American Indian faith and
other kinds of belief systems within the Unitarian structure ...today
I've found 'home' in Catholicism, which, although VERY deeply
Christian, is also more cognizant of the godlike spirituality
and motivation of people like Buddha or Mohammed or Gandhi
or other Christian leaders of MANY denominations. It has let
me love God AND my perceptions. I am no longer in the business
of trying to talk anyone into any particular faith, and like
many XJWs, I am fairly ashamed that I once did - and succeeded, too.
But I always keep in mind the scripture that says that, 'Just
like a loving parent, just like you, God will not hear you
cry for water and give you a stone'. Searching is good. Believe
that the mind and heart and powers of perception that God
gave you, along with God and the strength of your prayers,
will lead you to a place of comfort. A 'right fit'. For man
is a religious being. But too, religion IN COMMUNITY is a
loving gift from a loving God ...I pray you will find it one
day. Don't be discouraged if it takes awhile. (It might or
might not). As you are moving toward your spiritual home,
so you are moving towards your life. God bless you. You are
all in my prayers.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
11:00:29
Comments
Thank you for the Birthday wishes! I think I've decided to
start aging backwards! LOL! Rather than being 42 now, I think
I'll start backwards ...but wait, I don't wanna ever ...be
a teenager again! OK, I think I'll just keep aging forward!
LOL I had a wonderful birthday, thank you all! Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
12:04:51
Comments
OK, who said that Bill should shut this site down! That he
should come back to Jehovah? You must be a witness at the
present and should not even be on this site commenting, right?
ARE YOU AN APOSTATE? Do you know that your belief is that
you shouldn't be here? Do you know that God can see what your
doing in secret? What else are you doing that the elders don't
know about but Jehovah knows? Just a thought? Maybe if your
going to say that your going to live 100 percent the bible,
then maybe you should stop being a hypocrite and coming on
this site when they (WTS) tells you not to. Doesn't that bother
your conscience? Work on yourself before you come here and
Judge!!!!
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
15:04:38
Comments
http://jwzone.org/ Enter the Daily Text for Sunday, July 7
A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted
me, they will persecute you also.-- John 15:20. Saturday,
July 6 | Monday, July 8 Jehovah's Witnesses today are not
passive churchgoers. They take an active part in the evangelizing
work. Like the early Christians, they present themselves willingly
to do God's will, seeking to help others learn about Jehovah's
Kingdom promises. In doing so, they reflect Jehovah's mercy
and love to unbelieving humankind. And they do so despite
encountering apathy, ridicule, and persecution. Jesus prepared
his followers for mixed reactions to the good news when he
said the words in today's text. We cannot fail to be impressed
by the similarity between Jehovah's Witnesses today and those
who embraced true Christianity in the first century. What
we see among Jehovah's Witnesses is a living faith, a genuine
faith, and a faith that is based on Bible truth that they
feel impelled to share with all who will listen.--1 Tim. 2:3,
4. w 4/1/01 12, 13a Excerpt from "Examining the Scriptures
Daily 2002". © 2001 WatchTower Bible & Tract
Society of PA
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
15:07:23
Comments
https://watch001.securesites.com/contact/submit.htm Enter
the Daily Text for Sunday, July 7 A slave is not greater than
his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute
you also.-- John 15:20. Saturday, July 6 | Monday, July 8
Jehovah's Witnesses today are not passive churchgoers. They
take an active part in the evangelizing work. Like the early
Christians, they present themselves willingly to do God's
will, seeking to help others learn about Jehovah's Kingdom
promises. In doing so, they reflect Jehovah's mercy and love
to unbelieving humankind. And they do so despite encountering
apathy, ridicule, and persecution. Jesus prepared his followers
for mixed reactions to the good news when he said the words
in today's text. We cannot fail to be impressed by the similarity
between Jehovah's Witnesses today and those who embraced true
Christianity in the first century. What we see among Jehovah's
Witnesses is a living faith, a genuine faith, and a faith
that is based on Bible truth that they feel impelled to share
with all who will listen.--1 Tim. 2:3, 4. w 4/1/01 12, 13a
Excerpt from "Examining the Scriptures Daily 2002". © 2001
WatchTower Bible & Tract Society of PA
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
15:08:04
Comments
https://watch001.securesites.com/contact/submit.htm
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
15:08:53
Comments
If not hyperlinked then copy and paste. https://watch001.securesites.com/contact/submit.htm
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
15:34:21
Comments
EXPOSE IN UK!!!!!!! Found this on the jehovahs-witness.com --- It
will air July14th and again on the 18th: Panorama is the premier "expose" channel
in the UK, and always publishes it's findings on the web around
about the time that their programme is aired. Look:http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/default.stm
I pasted it from the other site. I am not sure if it will
link or not, but I do know this is where one of the people
got their info. Thought I would let you guys know. Love Jesika
Thoman Dallas, Tx
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
16:02:50
Comments
Well for some reason the link isn't working. So I copied it
for everyone *** : SUFFER THE LITTLE
CHILDREN Watch the programme on Sunday 14 July at 22:15 BST,
on BBC One or from this page. With the Catholic Church still
reeling from revelations that it kept child abuse quiet, Panorama
investigates a world-wide religion that stands accused of
shielding abusers: the Jehovah's Witnesses. The programme
tells the harrowing stories of children put at risk by the
Watchtower Society's bible-based policies and unearths evidence
of a database of members suspected of child abuse - many of
whom have never been reported to the police. The organization
claims to monitor the men accused of raping and molesting
children but now faces allegations that it covers up crime
and pressurizes victims not to go to the police. Panorama
takes its evidence to the heart of the organization and reveals
the damage caused by the silent witnesses. Production Team:
Reporter: Betsan Powys Producer: Murdoch Rodgers Assistant
Producer: Shabnam Grewal Editor: Mike Robinson Well there
it is again in black and white. I will post the whole story
after it airs!!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
16:28:44
Comments
I'm sure glad that I left the WTS so I could come here and
see the daily text!!! Thanks who ever you are I forgot that
I need you to show me what the bible tell me to do ... Stop
wasting your time here. We already know what you teach and
that's why we are no longer witnesses. We can look up scriptures
for ourselves; unlike you ... Thanks for caring so much
to try to get the plank out of our eye instead of your own!!!
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
18:44:13
Comments
Was a JW for 30 some years, My dad is a traveling minster
which he has been doing for the last 20 years. My bother went
to Bethel, and was ask to leave. We both were kick out. I
have seen a lot of covering up, and would like to learn more
about you. Timthetoolmaninmichigan@yahoo.com
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
19:26:52
Comments
After many years of abuse (while an elder and P.O.) my husband
began to threaten to kill me. He made his threats several
times. I ran for help to an elder I respected. He was a regular
pioneer and a substitute C.O. His reply? At least twice he
said, "You have unfounded fears." Another time I
tried to run away. He got two elder friends to "talk" to
me. I was accused of hurting him because it would cause him
to have "nightmares" if he had to live with the
fear me leaving him. I tried to run away again. I called another
elder for help. He said I couldn't come to their home. A sister
in one of the healing professions acted as my advocate to
the elders in one congregation. I had plans to run to her
house. The day I was prepared to act on them she said I couldn't
come there either. At a new congregation, even after he picked
me up and threw me (I sustained bruises and a whiplash) the
elders still thought I was "too hasty" in filing
for a divorce. Hmm 25 years of abuse and I was being "too
hasty?" How does that happen? I was also accused of "making
him a subject for adultery" by filing for divorce. He
already did that and lost his privileges! These are just bits
and pieces from several years and several congregations. Jehovah
finally rescued me and got me out. What did the elders do
then? Help me? NO. They put "unofficial restrictions" on
me which lasted 2 years! They said "Jehovah wouldn't
do that!" He wouldn't rescue me from this abusive JW
man. Finally, after much struggling and agony I was able to
leave this oppressive religion. 43 years of my life imprisoned
by mental and emotional bonds stronger than any prison bars.
How nice to be in the sunshine again! Thank you for this website.
You are doing a good work.
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
20:07:57
Comments
I have never lost a debate with a Jehovah Witness with this
simple philosophy, "2+2=4." However, they do have
my blessing that one day they find that true path that they
strive for. For me, I found it long ago. I would gladly share
it with anyone who wants but, I ask a Jehovah's Witnesses
this question, "If I could show you a true path towards
God, one full of peace, love, and grace ...But the price would
be that you would have to see that the WatchTower Society is
not the "exclusive channel" Would you still be willing
to accept it? All have said no. They have my pity. The eight
words of a dying religion is "But we have never done
it that way." I hope that one day the body of Jehovah's
Witnesses see that just because it is not their way does not
mean it is not God's way. "Man's ways are not God's ways." The
Watchtower has a dream of a few men's "Perfect Paradise." Be
careful what you wish for, you might get it.-Sequia
Remote User:
Date:
07 Jul 2002
Time:
21:06:48
Comments
Barbara from Tampa Bay, e-mail me I would like to talk. I
live in Tampa. I have my own story to tell about unloving
treatment at the hands of Gestapo elders *** Loris *** lmatheny@emtecae.com
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
09:10:58
Comments
what i find so damn annoying and funny is the hypocrisy among
more, shall we say, prominent JWs. Take for instance, Serena
and Venus Williams, the African-American tennis players. Supposedly
they are unbaptized pubs and only associate closely with others
like them--JWs. Serena has even publicly thanked Jehovah God
in interviews after tennis matches, most recently Saturday,
after winning Championships Wimbledon over her sis. How can
they be considered devout JWs in good standing if they are
taking up so much time practicing for recreation sports and
going to games. I don't see the Society punishing THEM with
Disfellowshipment or with loss of privileges ...! They even
sang the US National Anthem, stood for it, said the pledge
of allegiance, and draped themselves in an American flag.
WT HQ or the Williams' congregation does nothing ... But if
they weren't so famous and RICH, I bet 2 cents that the folks
at Bethel would be on their asses faster than you could say
Jehosaphat ...amazing, how hypocritical that is. What do you
guys think?
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
09:32:40
Comments
Wow, I didn't know about the Williams sisters being JW's's,
unbaptized or not, it's interesting. Since they're not baptized,
the cong can't DF them, so I would imagine they are not thought
of as "true" witnesses by the majority in their
cong. Probably raised by JW's's, and are walking the fence so
to speak. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
10:14:49
Comments
I remember years ago when I was studying to a JW, I asked
the sister who was conducting the study about the Jackson
family (at that time Michael Jackson was DF). The sister and
the other sister who was present at that time laughed and
said, "We don't even consider them as Witnesses" in
very sarcastic way ...So maybe the William Sisters
are ignored by the cong. and the WTS, or maybe the WTS think
they have a bigger fish to fry: the Silent Lambs. :-O
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
10:16:19
Comments
Sorry, I just saw that I missed "be" in the first
sentence. It's "when I was studying to *be* a witness".
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
11:30:56
Comments
Serena's one HOT Jehovah's Witness ...wish she was in my cong.
damn she is FINE! Can u say total babe? LOL just ramblin' ...sorry
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
15:54:39
Comments
What's up with Michael Jackson? Don Wade on WLS radio this
am just (rightfully) RIPPED him for his pedophilia. It's nice
to see that 'Stars' are not any longer getting the free ride
they recently were in the department of 'sex crimes'. It will
be a welcome change. I hope it sticks. Anybody know what's
up?
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
16:24:55
Comments
Can an active JW or an Ex-JW PLEASE answer this question?
You know all the stuff about "separating people, goats
verses sheep in the book of Matthew, right? The new release
called "Worship the Only True God", page 179 from
the summer District Convention this year says, " After
World War I, there was a separating of all who claimed to
be Christian into two classes: (1) The clergy of Christendom
and their followers, (ALL THOSE IN CHURCHES) who came out
in strong support of the League of Nations (now the United
Nations) while still holding fast to their national loyalties,
and (2) true Christians (JW's ONLY) of that postwar era, who
gave their full support to God's Messianic Kingdom, not to
the nations of this world. (John 17:16) These proved themselves
true servants of God's Kingdom by undertaking the preaching
of "this good news of the kingdom" earth wide. (Matthew
24:14) Okay, here is what I don't understand and never have
to be honest. If the separating work didn't begin until after
World War I, what happens to all those who died before hand?
They will be resurrected onto a paradise earth to learn about
Jehovah under much better conditions while the rest of us are
being judged NOW?? It appears that I'd have a better chance
of "making it" had I lived before 1914-1918! Is
anyone following my logic? I have thought for a very long
time that the separating work isn't happening now. The Watchtower
October 15, 1995 on page 22 says "In other words, the
parable points to the FUTURE when the son of man will come
in his glory." Page 23 says "Understanding the parable
of the sheep and the goats in this way indicates that the
rendering of judgment on the sheep and the goats is FUTURE.
It will take place after "the tribulation" mentioned
at Matthew 24:29-30 breaks out and the Son of man 'arrives
in his glory." Is it loving to expect everyone to come
to an accurate knowledge NOW? My heart says no. I'm hoping
that Jehovah is a much more loving God then those who demand
so much from us now. It's no wonder I live in a state of confusion!
Someone in Texas
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
16:52:54
Comments
To Someone In Texas ...I completely understand your confusion.
Sad to say, confusion will continue and probably increase,
as the Witnesses are continually changing what they believe
one day after the next. With all the changes, the "New
Light" and "New Understanding", one belief/doctrine
long held suddenly changes and all followers are supposed
to simply accept (without doubt or question) whatever the
Society says is the "current understanding". So,
don't get yourself worked up into a tizzy over it. I left
the Org Officially in '95, and at the time I was attending,
the "understanding" was that the sheep and goats
were already being separated. I find it extremely comical,
I'm sitting here laughing, that the above quote about the
JW's being the only group who were keeping themselves far
from the U.N.!! LOL, sorry but this to me is hysterical, since
it's already been brought out numerous times in previous posts
with links for proof that the Watchtower Society was a MEMBER
if the U.N. for TEN YEARS, and only last October withdrew
their membership when people started questioning them about
it. I also have recently learned that the new book you referred
to replaces a previous book, and that at least 3 original
chapters were removed! Hmm, I wonder what the Society's
doctrine/Belief will have changed to now. ??? I wouldn't be
the least bit surprised if the Society comes out with a whole
new book, with more remarkable "new light". LOL
Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
19:54:20
Comments
Hi Linda, "Worship the Only True God" that was just
released, what book did it replace, do you know? I understand
what you mean about "new light/new understanding all
too well! What's sad is everyone believes whatever the WTS
says because it's being directed by Jehovah himself. But then
I ask myself, would Jehovah approve of what is going on? The
answer is a screaming NOOOOOOO! I hope you have found true
peace and happiness! Are we sheep or goats? Let's not ask!
LOL Someone in Texas
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
21:39:36
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:03:08 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
Spare the rod-spoil the organization --- Well you might
say we had a marvelous time in Minnesota. I traveled to ST
Paul Minnesota on Monday of this week to meet with Jeff Anderson
and discuss upcoming defendants that are coming out to sue
Watchtower. On Tuesday I was able to meet Heidi Meyer for
the first time. She had contacted me after viewing the Dateline
program and was motivated as many others are to stand up and
do something about being silenced by her local elders. Heidi
reported that her molester may have molested as many as ten
young girls. Yet he still remains a JW in good standing and
reads for the book study. Along with Heidi is a “Jane
Doe” who chose to remain anonymous to the public. Both
are 22 years of age and on Tuesday through Jeff Anderson's
office filed yet another lawsuit against Watchtower. This
will now make officially five young women who are in litigation
with the Society over being molested. --- The press
conference was held at Mr. Anderson's office. The office
occupies the entire floor of a St Paul high rise. We were
hoping to have at least two cameras and a newspaper show up
for the press conference. As 1:30 pm neared the press just
kept coming, we kept having to wait for them to set up more
cameras. Finally fifteen minutes late we came into a huge
conference room. There were five cameras running, representing
a clean sweep of all televised media in the Minneapolis area.
Both of the major newspapers were there along with the AP
and a few other reporters that I did not know who they were
with. We expected the press conference to last 15 minutes,
it lasted an hour. The reporters just kept asking questions,
you know the kind JR Brown cannot answer unless he hands out
his one year old video. It was amazing to see how quickly
they were getting it and the look of disdain and shock when
they realized what Watchtower Policy had done to these beautiful
young ladies. After the Conference the story was up on the
internet within thirty minutes. We went out to celebrate and
at a local pub got to watch ourselves on television. A few
people came up to the table and asked if that was us on TV
and we were happy to explain the basis for our faith….no
wait, instead, we talked about JW elders hiding child molesters
locally. Everyone gave us atta boys and appreciation for what
we were doing. One person there was so moved he bought everyone
at our table a round of drinks as a salute. There are no words
to describe the look of hope and vindication that was found
in the eyes of these young sisters. They were no longer silentlambs
they had taken their power back from those who had robbed
it from them. There was also a young sister who came from
over 1500 miles away when she heard about the lawsuit being
filed. She just wanted to be there for support, she had never
met either of these sisters before, she to is a survivor of
a JW molester. It moved Mr. Anderson so much to see her there…..
Well, let's just say you might be learning her name
soon in your local paper, but why should we allow Watchtower
to know when or where? --- As we sit and talked I mentioned
that it appears we spanked Watchtower again. You may recall
that as a quote that was made in the Paducah paper when the
judicial committee failed to show for their hearing. I went
on to say it seems this is getting to be a habit when you
consider the events of the last year. Time and again when
they maneuver their misinformation moves, it blows up in their
faces. It was then Heidi made the comment, “Well you
know Bill the bible says, Spare the rod, spoil the organization.” What
better quote to end this with than that, I think I will go
write that on the bathroom wall, “Spare the rod, spoil
the organization.” --- Below you will see the articles
I have been able to find on this, if you find others send
them to me and I will put it on the sl list. Please remember
to write the reporters and editors of these papers and express
appreciation for their efforts. --- Regards, Bill [urls
to articles already posted by others]
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
21:42:33
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:11:24 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
Distribute Freely --- Questions to Ask Jehovah's Witnesses
When They Call at your Door --- Recently the Public Information
Department for Jehovah's Witnesses has made certain
comments to the media. Each remark confirms a certain aspect
of Watchtower Policy regarding child molestation that most
members of Jehovah's Witnesses are not aware of. To
encourage Jehovah's Witnesses to educate themselves
regarding how their church handles molestation issues we suggest
asking them the following questions when they call at your
door. --- 1. Why do elders in your church only report child
molesters in States where it is legally required? --- Tennessean/Nashville-05/11/02-Brown
said, “If parents come to congregation leaders with
concerns that their child is being abused, the leaders follow
state law. If state law requires parents to report the abuse,
congregation leaders tell them that.” --- Paducah
Sun-Paducah KY-1-28-01-“Brown said the church does not
necessarily equate reporting the matter to law enforcement
to protecting the child because "not all the time does
government authority provide the protection the child needs.” ---
LOUISVILLE-COURIER-Louisville, KY-May 8, 2002-“Leaders
of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, ‘say that
in States that do not require reporting of abuse, they prefer
taking steps to protect children while not breaching what
they see as confidential communications between elders and
members.” --- 2. Do you support your church policy
of requiring pedophile's to call at my home? --- AP/CNN-May
9, 2002-“J.R. Brown, a spokesman for the denomination,
said that anyone found guilty of molestation by a church judicial
committee is removed from all positions of responsibility
and cannot evangelize door-to-door without being accompanied
by a fellow Jehovah's Witness.” --- Asbury Park Press-New
Jersey-5/14/02-“Semonian said anyone convicted of child
molestation cannot hold a position of authority in the church
and cannot perform church work alone.” --- Watchtower
Media Website Statement-Brooklyn, NY-“In a few instances,
individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed
to positions within the congregation if their conduct has
been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are
considered carefully…'Let us say that 20 years
have passed… ‘the man could possibly be appointed
to a responsible position within the congregation.” ---
3. Do you know how many child molesters are in your local
Kingdom Hall? If so what are their names? --- Paducah Sun-Paducah,
KY 1-28-01-“Moreno of Watchtower Legal, agreed with
Bowen's charge that a congregation would also not be told
if a pedophile had joined the flock." --- News Channel
6-Paducah, KY-5-15-02-“Members at Bowen's old Kingdom
Hall in Draffenville admit discouraging members from telling
just anybody. "The difference between needless gossip,
let's say, and withholding information from those who have
a right to know is two different things completely," says
Jehovah's Witness Bruce Waite.” --- Help Jehovah's
Witnesses to understand Watchtower Policy by sharing statements
their leaders have made to media, encourage them to write
home office and demand proper changes be made to protect all
children who come in contact with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
21:45:18
Comments
Though not all sex abuse is by a blood relative, the fact
that incest, etc. was covered in Leviticus Chapter 18 ... close
enough! --- Leviticus 18:6: "You people must not come
near, any man of you, to any close fleshly relative of his
to lay bare nakedness. I am Jehovah." (Even though it
says, "any man of you," the principle would apply
to those who may not have reached full manhood yet, I would
think). --- Sibling "Sex Abuse": Lev. 18:9: "As
for the nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father
or the daughter of your mother, whether born in the same household
or born outside it, you must not lay bare their nakedness." --- "Sex
Abuse" by a Grandfather: Lev. 18:10: "As for the
nakedness of the daughter of your son or the daughter of your
daughter, you must not lay bare their nakedness, because they
are your nakedness." --- Step-Family/Sibling "Sex
Abuse": Lev. 18:11: "As for the nakedness of the
daughter of your father's wife, the offspring of your father,
she being your sister, you must not lay bare her nakedness." ---
(vs. 12-13-14-15-16 deals with aunts, uncles, daughters-in-law,
sisters-in-law). --- "Sex Abuse" w/mothers & daughters & granddaughters:
Lev. 18:17: "The nakedness of a woman and her daughter
you must not lay bare. The daughter of her son [granddaughter]
and the daughter of her daughter [granddaughter] you must
not take in order to lay her nakedness bare. They are cases
of blood relationship. It is loose conduct." --- There
may be other scriptures that apply in principle (i.e., not
to lay down with father's wife -- in reverse that would be "sex
abuse" of the wife with the son; and the scriptures of
men lying with men -- at whatever age, in principle, would
be the same as "sex abuse" of boys). --- TO SUM
IT ALL UP: "Do not make yourselves unclean by any of
these things, because by all these things the nations whom
I am sending out from before you have made themselves unclean.
Consequently the land is unclean, and I shall bring punishment
for its error upon it, and the land will vomit its inhabitants
out. And you yourselves must keep my statutes and my judicial
decisions, and you must not do any of all these detestable
things, whether a native or an alien resident who is residing
as an alien in your midst. For all these detestable things
the men of the land who were before you have done, so that
the land is unclean ... In case anyone DOES any of all these
detestable things, then the souls doing them must be cut off
from among their people. And you must keep your obligation
to me not to carry on any of the detestable customs that have
been carried on before you, that you may not make yourselves
unclean by them. I am Jehovah your God." (Lev. 18:24-30)
--- SLC
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
21:51:05
Comments
This article does not mention JWs specifically, but it's powerful
info anyway ... go to: http://www.shopnetdaily.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=870
Whistle blower Magazine - July 2002 edition – GAY RIGHTS'
SECRET AGENDA: How the homosexual activist movement has targeted
America's children. --- One of its most controversial, hard-hitting
editions ever published, the July issue of WorldNetDaily's
acclaimed Whistle blower magazine is a stunning exposé of
the homosexual activist movement. --- "This issue of
the magazine is breathtaking," said Editor and CEO Joseph
Farah. "I don't think most people, even WND's sophisticated
readership, know what 'gay rights' is really all about. The
July issue just vaporizes the movement's slick marketing veneer,
and then documents thoroughly the nightmarish world these
powerful, well-funded activists have in store for America's
children." --- Called "Gay rights' secret agenda," the
issue explores "How and why the homosexual activist movement
has targeted America's children." --- "Gay characters
have become the norm on sitcoms," writes Steve Baldwin
in one of the issue's reports. "It has become fashionable
to attack the Boy Scouts; homosexual propaganda inundates
many of America's public schools; nearly all the mainstream
religious denominations have 'revised' their understanding
of biblical teaching concerning homosexuality; and the gay
'rights' legislative agenda is succeeding beyond the advocates'
wildest imaginations." --- Thus, says Baldwin, "it
is difficult to convey the dark side of the homosexual culture
without appearing harsh. However, it is time to acknowledge
that homosexual behavior threatens the foundation of Western
civilization – the nuclear family. An unmistakable manifestation
of the attack on the family unit is the homosexual community's
efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure
and to enlarge the homosexual movement. --- "The homosexual
community and its allies in the media scoff at this argument," Baldwin
notes. "They insist it is merely a tactic to demonize
the homosexual movement." --- But truth is stranger
than fiction, notes the author: "Research confirms that
homosexuals molest children at a rate vastly higher than heterosexuals,
and the mainstream homosexual culture commonly promotes sex
with children. Homosexual leaders repeatedly argue for the
freedom to engage in consensual sex with children, and blind
surveys reveal a shockingly high number of homosexuals admit
to sexual contact with minors. Indeed, the homosexual community
is driving the worldwide campaign to lower the legal age of
consent." --- But that's just the beginning. July's
Whistle blower includes: --- * "Activists in the newsroom," by
Joseph Farah, revealing in their own words how homosexuals
have risen to high positions in the "mainstream" media
and made it nearly impossible to get the "straight" story.
* "Child molestation and the homosexual movement," by
Steve Baldwin, documenting in-depth how the gay-rights agenda
is strongly focused on youth. * "Sex, lies and Kinsey," by
Dr. Judith Reisman, revealing how criminal pedophile experiments
on infants and toddlers were enshrined as liberating "research," became
the basis of our modern beliefs about sex, and succeeded in
revolutionizing science, education, law and psychiatry. * "Catholics
learning sex from Kinsey's disciples," by Art Moore,
documenting for the first time how the late reputed-pedophile
professor's teaching created an environment for scandals,
and how Kinsey's radically non-Christian teachings became
enmeshed in the Catholic Church in America. * "'Pedophile
priests' and Boy Scouts," by David Kaplan, explaining
why the news media have a wildly double standard in covering
gay issues. * "'Safe schools': The Trojan Horse of the
'gay' education movement?" by Linda P. Harvey, an in-depth
look at the current push for "safe zones" – often
amounting to homosexual recruiting zones – in America's
public schools. Find out why Dr. James Dobbs has publicly
called for parents to take their children out of government
schools that indoctrinate kindergarten-age students with "homosexual
propaganda." * "Republicans walking tightrope on
'gay rights,'" by Robert H. Knight, showing how the Bush
administration is freely appointing homosexuals to high positions.
* "Why Judaism rejected homosexuality," by Dennis
Pager. This stunning report, which won the first prize from
the prestigious Amy Foundation, reveals how the Jewish religion,
and later Christianity, brought about the ultimate sexual
revolution. One of the most important and revealing articles
on homosexuality ever published. * "Gay rights' secret
agenda," by David Kupelian, which explores the core reasons
that activist homosexuals are obsessed with youth. * "Change
is possible" by Stephen Bennett. A former promiscuous
gay – now happily married for nine years and with two
children – describes his 'coming out' of homosexuality.
--- "Our goal with Whistle blower has always been to
showcase the kind of groundbreaking reporting and raw, truthful
information that could truly change the reader's paradigm – the
way he sees things," said WND Vice President and Managing
Editor David Kupelian. "This issue of Whistle blower succeeds
in that big-time. I think our readers will be in a state of
shock when they read this issue. Their understanding of the
Catholic Church's sex scandal, of what's really happening
to America's public schools and other institutions, and even
of their own religion, will never be the same." --- © 2001
WorldNetDaily.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. E&OE
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
21:56:31
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Sun, 7 Jul 2002 12:05:49 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
SILENTLAMBS MARCH --- All Are Invited to Attend --- SILENTLAMBS
ABUSE SURVIVORS MARCH --- BROOKLYN, NEW YORK --- Help
Jehovah's Witnesses see the importance of protecting
children. --- September 27, 2002, 2:00 P. M. --- Pierpoint
Place &Columbia Heights --- For further information
see: www.silentlambs.org <http://www.silentlambs.org/> ---
1-877-WTABUSE --- You Are Invited to a silentlambs March
in Brooklyn New York --- On September 27th 2002, we are
asking for survivors and supporters of those who have suffered
abuse within the Jehovah's Witness community come together
for a peaceful march in Brooklyn New York. --- WHY ATTEND?
At silentlambs we care about children, in addition, we wish
to let abuse survivors know that are not alone and have our
support. This will be a united statement to the Watchtower
organization that they must change policy to protect our children.
Also, if you can serve as an eye-witness it is another way
to take a stand for righteousness in behalf of all silentlambs.
--- WHO MAY COME? EVERYONE! At silentlambs we practice “don't
ask don't tell” when we gather for important events.
We do not care if you are DF, DA, or what you may personally
hold as belief. We ask that all simply support those who were
abused as Jehovah's Witnesses without prejudice as to
standing in the organization. If you plan to attend please
email and let us know how many are in your group to help us
to know beforehand how large a group will be there so we may
plan accordingly. --- WHERE: The march will start on the
west side of Pierpoint Place and Columbia Heights we will
then walk about seven blocks to our destination 25 Columbia
Heights. --- WHAT WILL WE DO? When we arrive, those who
wish as time allows, may make a sixty second statement on
how their lives have been affected by abuse within the Jehovah's
Witness organization. All are invited to bring a stuffed lamb
for each Jehovah's Witness victim of abuse they know
to leave as a symbolic gesture of how many have been hurt
by Watchtower Policy. --- EYE WITNESSES: If you wish to
serve as an eye-witness regarding how the Governing Body has
allowed Watchtower Policy to hurt children, you are invited
to come forward. Please email your name, address, and telephone
to Bill Bowen at info@silentlambs.org . Whatever your status
regarding the organization you have the right to serve as
an eye-witness. Read enclosed letter to the Governing Body
for further explanation. Please bring any written documentation
such as Watchtower correspondence along with your first hand
experience of what happened to your or your family when abuse
problems arose. Please be willing to explain how you were
hurt by Watchtower Policy. --- TRAVEL ARRANGEMENTS: We have
obtained discount hotel and rental car discounts if you wish
to attend and spend the night. Please email at assistance@silentlambs.org
and let us know how many in your group are planning to attend
and we will provide you with a list of accommodations to choose
from and how to make arrangements. You can also arrange air
travel through www.travelocity.com <http://www.travelocity.com/> ---
TRAVEL FUND: If you wish to assist abuse survivors to attend
who are financially unable, we are setting aside a special
silentlambs travel fund. I am contributing the first $100
to help those who may not be able to afford travel expenses.
Your assistance will determine how many we can assistance
to be there. --- If you need financial assistance to attend,
please email as assistance@silentlambs.org Please send your
name address and telephone as well as a brief description
of what assistance you need in order to participate in the
silentlambs march. --- WHY COME? I think it is best described
by poem that was posted on my Guestbook, it goes as follows:
--- It's not enough to have a dream unless I'm willing to
pursue it ... It's not enough to know what's right unless I'm
strong enough to do it ... It's not enough to join a crowd,
to be acknowledged and accepted ... I must be true to my ideals,
even if I'm left out and rejected ... It's not enough to learn
the truth unless I also learn to live it ... It's no enough
to reach for love unless I care enough to give it ... ---
In conclusion, it is an honor to be associated with those
who speak and take a stand for what is right. Your efforts
to attend will make a difference. Abuse survivors are the
real heroes of silentlambs, with hearts like a lion and courage
like David, their actions protect children they will never
know. Our united efforts will protect children who have yet
to be born. --- June 6, 2002 --- Service Committee/Service
Department c/o Watchtower 25 Columbia Heights Brooklyn, NY
11201 --- Dear brothers, --- I am writing to address a
serious matter involving the Governing Body of Jehovah's
Witnesses. The basis of this letter is found in the scriptures
at Galatians 2:11-14. In those verses it describes the occasion
when Paul confronted Peter for wrongdoing. The humble reaction
of Peter not only showed his repentance but his willingness
to follow theocratic direction. --- It is interesting to
note in a recent letter dated February 7, 2002, this position
was reiterated by the head of the Department of Public Information,
J. R. Brown. Therein Brother Brown states, “Our Governing
Body is willing to resolve differences of opinion within the
framework of the congregation and according to Scriptural
principles.” This is a welcome affirmation of how an
organization directed by God's spirit should operate.
No one is above God's law, even as Peter who walked
with Christ did not consider himself above reproof from a
fellow elder when he became involved in wrongdoing. ---
Wrongdoing is a serious matter within God's organization.
By the directions we are offered, no one is above the directives
offered by His organization and anyone who knows of serious
wrongdoing and does not report it would in effect, “share
in the sin” thus making them subject to a similar judgment
for not reporting the matter. To provide the basis for this
opinion I refer to the 1985 Watchtower where it makes this
statement: --- *** w85 11/15 21-2 Do Not Share in the Sins
of Others *** Elders must also be alert not to protect one
another or ministerial servants if one of them has committed
a serious sin that could result in disfellowshipping.They
should follow the principle outlined by Paul, who wrote: “Never
lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in
the sins of others; preserve yourself chaste.”—1
Timothy 5:22. --- Today I write this letter as a fellow
elder and Jehovah's Witness in good standing. Why do
I make that statement? In December of the year 2000 I made
public my decision to resign as an elder in protest of Watchtower
Policy regarding how child molestation was handled in the
Christian congregation. While on December 31, of that year
the Circuit Overseer informed me that he accepted my resignation,
yet to date, no announcement to the congregation has been
made in that regard. By protocol within the organization it
would appear as a result I remain an elder until that announcement
is made. Please refer to the June 28, 1999 letter to All Bodies
of Elders where it states: --- [Page-2; June 6, 2002] --- “An
announcement of deletion should be made to the congregation
after receiving from the Society the returned S-2 form or
an S-52 letter indicating that the recommendation has been
approved. In such a case, the brother should be informed of
his deletion before the announcement is made.” ---
So according to this information the deletion does not take
effect until the announcement is read to the local congregation
and I am informed of it being given, thus it appears that
along with being a Jehovah‘s Witness in good standing
I also remain an elder. It is true this is a loophole but
you might compare it to the loophole used by Watchtower Legal
to avoid reporting child molestation in 33 States. As they
use their loophole to protect the image of the organization,
I use my loophole to try and protect children. --- Therefore
with the above thoughts in mind I as a Jehovah's Witness
and fellow elder wish to make the following charges against
the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses: --- 1.
Apostasy-The Governing body has taken action against the true
worship of Jehovah and the established order among his dedicated
people (Jer.17:13; 23:15; 28.15,16 ; 2 Thess. 2: 9,10). They
have deliberately spread and stubbornly held to teachings
contrary to Bible truth in the establishment of an organizational
Policy that hurts children. --- 2. Loose Conduct-The Governing
Body has shown a disregard for theocratic order in their failure
to protect the flock. ( Gal. 5:19:2 Pet. 2:7; w83 3/15 p.31;
w73 9115 pp, 574-6; it-2 p. 264 ) --- 3. Causing Divisions-The
Governing Body has committed deliberate action to disrupt
the unity of the congregation and undermined the confidence
of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement by their inaction
on matters concerning child abuse and battered women. ( Rom.
16:17, 18; Titus 3: 10,11 ) --- The actions of the Governing
Body in establishing Watchtower Policy with regard to how
child molestation is handled in the Christian Congregation
at the direction of the Service Department, Legal Department,
District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, and local elders, has
broken God's law and destroyed the lives of many faithful
brothers and sisters. --- Therefore I formerly request to
resolve this matter “within the framework of the congregation
and according to Scriptural principles,” by calling
for a judicial committee to be convened in Brooklyn, New York
on September 27, 2002 of three impartial elders who are spiritual
men with no fear for standing up for righteousness. I will
bring several hundred eye-witnesses who will provide extensive
evidence in the form of written documentation, personal experience,
and eye-witness testimony, to accuse the Governing [Page-3;
June 6, 2002] Body that by their policy on child molestation
they are guilty of racketeering, witness tampering, conduct
unbecoming a Christian and crimes against children. ---
It is my hope the judicial committee will be able to find
acts of repentance commensurate with their wrongdoing committed
against children. If so then Public Reproof will help the
organization of Jehovah's Witnesses to know the Governing
Body has become truly repentant humble men and will act in
the best interests of Jehovah's Witness children. On the other
hand if proper works of commensurate repentance cannot be
found or if they try to minimize the wrong, the Governing
Body should be disfellowshipped and not reinstated until
they take responsibility for their actions. --- The date
has been set months in advance to give the Governing Body
time to make appropriate arrangements to be present as well
as prepare for their defense and also to give the witnesses
against them sufficient time to make travel arrangements.
--- It is my optimism the Governing Body much like the Apostle
Peter, will humbly address these matters in the best interests
of the entire organization so as to bring God's blessing and
holy spirit in full flow upon his people. I offer you ten
days from the date of this letter to respond in a timely manner,
along with this letter goes my warm Christian love. ---
Very truly yours, William H. Bowen on behalf of Silentlambs,
inc. PO Box 311 Calvert City, KY 42029 --- cc. Governing
Body
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
22:36:47
Comments
Bill and The Silentlambs: I am unable to go to Brooklyn, but
would like to send "my lambs" for each child that
I know of that was effected by the secrets, lies and abandonment
to what is decent. Where can I send them? It would be wonderful
to make a lamb for each child we know of - whether we go or
not; not too unlike the memorial for the Vietnam Vets. I would
like to see the steps full of these lambs representing each
and every child that was touched in a wrong way. Let us know
if those of us who cannot go can send our "lambs" without
us. Thank you, Claudine
Remote User:
Date:
08 Jul 2002
Time:
23:50:25
Comments
To Someone in Texas (from someone else in Texas!): The new
book replaces United in Worship of the Only True God, which
was released in 1983.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
02:31:39
Comments
Greetings Lambs/Ladies/Gents ... thought you would find comfort
from this "unofficial poll" taken by an elder from
10 members of his own cong re: the Dateline show. This is "legit
info" from a reputable source, i.e., from the friend
of this elder, and I was given "permission" to post
it to the SL Guestbook. Love, SLC --- Date: 7 Jul 2002
06:22:42 -0000 Subject: An informal poll --- I received
this email from a former elder and friend who is still associated
with Jehovah's Witnesses. He took this small poll after the
Dateline airing from individuals within his congregation.
He gave the OK to post his results here. --- : Witness
response to pedophilia issue --- Dear xxxxx: ---
It was great seeing you at xxxxxxxxx . My family all commented
very favorably on meeting you. Here is some information on
the informal and tiny poll of Witness reactions to the airing
of the pedophilia situation in the organization. In total,
I had reports from about ten witnesses (mostly sisters) who
commented about the problem immediately after it aired, in
private discussions, and only one blamed the apostates and
only one blamed the local bodies of elders - the rest of the
Witnesses felt the problem was due to the society and felt
that the policy must change. --- There was virtually no
expression that the whole thing was a media ploy to cast the
Witnesses in a bad light. I do not have any feedback on how
this has affected field service nor any information on how
the public is responding to Witnesses in the door to door
ministry. The responses included: One sister, with over forty
years as an active witness said: "I was sick all night,
the policy must be changed, I can't go out in service this
morning." --- Another sister, a pioneer, was stunned
by the revelation of this problem. She could not believe it
how the society could allow such a thing. --- Still another
sister, raised in the truth commented that the problem is
due to the local bodies of elders, not the society. ---
Another sister, who has been around the truth all of her life
but is not very active, initially blamed the apostates. She
later conceded that something must be done to correct it.
(The pedophilia problem.) --- A brother, raised in the truth
(and the father of a 4 year old daughter) but inactive and
not a strong witness, thought the media overplayed the issue
but thought that it is a serious problem. --- A sister who
has been a Witness for more than 40 years thought the program
was objective and concluded that the societies policy must
change. --- An elder, who has served many years, feared
that thousands more will be coming out of the woodwork. He
thinks it is a serious problem.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
02:36:07
Comments
I thought everyone would find this very interesting ... a thread
from one of the JW forums regarding the "scream/don't
scream" issue. Love/SLC --- New Message on Just
JW,s <http://groups.msn.com/JustJWs> --- SCREAM
DON'T SCREAM ? --- JW women have a greater need
than JW men to stay ever vigilant and attentive of the Watchtower's
back and forth rules and regulations which they have the nerve
to teach is "new light" from God. Why is this? If
a JW woman is raped, she may actually face disfellowshipping
from the body of elders who will interrogate her soon after
the crime has occurred and will listen with the utmost attention
to every little detail. Depending on the "new light" from
the Governing Body, if she doesn't scream during a rape, she
will be charged by the Elders as an adulteress ... someone
who may have actually 'enjoyed' the violent act because of
her silence. Yet, this rule has changed back and forth several
times. In effect, if a JW woman was raped in 1964 and she
didn't scream, she would be disfellowshipped. If another JW
woman was raped in 1969 and she didn't scream, she would NOT
be disfellowshipped. Therefore, if a JW woman does not want
to be branded an adulteress and taken away from her loved
ones by the hate crime of disfellowshipping, she had better
pay particular close attention to the latest vacillating "NEW
LIGHT" from the Governing Body. --- Take a look
for yourself at the following list of insane "new light" vacillation.
It's enough to make you want to ... --- No. If you
don't scream you won't be disfellowshipped. --- Prior
to January 15, 1964 <BLINK>YES!</BLINK> SCREAM
OR BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED!! --- Watchtower, January 15,
1964, p. 63 No. If you don't scream you won't be disfellowshipped.
--- Aid to Bible Understanding, 1969, pp. 601, 1371 <BLINK>YES!</BLINK> SCREAM
OR BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED!! --- Awake!, March 8, 1974, p.
14 No. If you don't scream you won't be disfellowshipped.
--- Awake, July 8, 1980, pp. 5-6 <BLINK>YES!</BLINK> SCREAM
OR BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED!! --- Watchtower, October 15, 1980,
p. 7 No. If you don't scream you won't be disfellowshipped.
--- Watchtower, March 15, 1983, p. 30 <BLINK>YES!</BLINK> SCREAM
OR BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED!! --- Awake!, February 22, 1984
No. If you don't scream you won't be disfellowshipped. ---
Awake!, June 8, 1984 (just 3 months later!!!!) <BLINK>YES!</BLINK> SCREAM
OR BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED!! --- Awake!, May 22, 1986, p.
23 No. If you don't scream you won't be disfellowshipped.
--- Awake!, September 22, 1986, p. 28 <BLINK>YES!</BLINK> SCREAM
OR BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED!! --- (Doctrine not yet in force ...pending
flickering<BLINK> new light</BLINK> from the "holy
spirit"). --- THEN ANOTHER PERSON REPLIED: Hello
*** --- I read with interest your post about the vacillating
policy about rape. I don't agree that a group of men
should interrogate a woman who has been subjected to what
must surely be the greatest violation of a person's
body in an effort to determine if she might somehow be guilty
of fornication. I am grateful that I never had to deal with
this during the years I served as an elder. --- I
carefully checked your references and I could not find anything
stating the society's policy on those two pages of the
Aid book that you posted. The rest check out but I must point
out that g74 3/8 article is not really stating a policy as
much as what the young sister assumed to be the policy at
the time. Granted the article should have clarified that point,
one way or the other. --- You also stated that the
Awake, July 8, 1980, pp. 5-6 promoted the view that if you
don't scream you won't be DF'd. I didn't
see that. Could you please furnish me with the specific wording
that you are referencing? I noticed that the article encouraged
fighting back rather than submitting. --- Now the
w80 10/15 p.7 article makes no bones about it at all and states
that a woman must resist or be considered as engaging in fornication.
It even references the March 74 Awake you referenced earlier
to commend that young sister for doing what she did. ---
Also concerning the article in the w83 3/15, I could not find
anything there. As a matter of fact the word rape‚ does
not occur in that portion of the article which you reference.
In the next reference g84 2/22 p. 24 (you forgot to list the
page number. (smile)) the article plainly states that "a
Christian is obligated to resist." Now the g84 6/8 issue
(from the feature: "From Our Readers") is very interesting.
A small sampling of the letters the Society received from
readers disturbed about this ridiculous rule on rape evidently
made them think twice about the matter. By the 80's
the Society was beginning to be a little conscious about their
public image. (Now there is a public relations department!
Who would have thought that twenty years ago?!) It's
evident that they received a lot of mail denouncing that archaic
and barbarous rule about screaming. However, if you note carefully
the editor's reply you will see that this is one of
those transitional‚ rulings that is setting up what
is to come later. --- Note the reply: ** For the victim
to be considered guilty of fornication there would need to
be proof of willing consent. Apparently the requirement of
Deuteronomy 22:25-27 for the woman to resist by screaming
would clear her from any suspicion of such consent on her
part. The value of resisting was emphasized by University
of Illinois sociologist Pauline Bart who made a study of women
who foiled rapes. In her studies, as reported in "The
Edmonton Journal" of Canada (November 10, 1983), she
states: "By fighting back, a woman significantly increases
her chance of avoiding rape ... Not resisting is no guarantee
of humane treatment." She further stated: "Raped
women who used physical strategies were less likely to be
depressed than raped women who did not physically resist their
assailants." As to showing respect for the potential
rapist, it is not that he deserves it, but treating him civilly
might help to elicit a considerate response and serve as a
means for the potential victim to get out of a very dangerous
situation.˜ED.** --- They don't come right
out and say that the woman WILL be DF'd for not screaming
but they do say that if she DOES scream then that would be
proof of resistance. The rest about the actual wisdom of resisting
is, of course, just fluff that is used to soften the impact
of the rule. That particular article did NOT reverse the "scream
or you‚re out" rule but rather marked a period
where this was apparently be debated by the GB. The article
you next reference in the g86 5/22 p.23 is apparently an affirmation
of their rule. They must have reached a decision by that time
and decided that keeping the scream rule‚ was to their
advantage for the time being. Either that or some ambitious
writer decided that this would make good copy. ---
The next article (9/22/86 p.28) does not remove the rule but
rather serves to show just how much of a problem this rule
had become. The Society likes to reference itself whenever
it can as an effort to show how consistent it is. It's
not but that's the ploy nonetheless. Note this statement
in that article: "True, the woman has to respond according
to her assessment of the danger to her life, and we believe
that is covered in the advice given in the box on page 23
(May 22, 1986)." Well, the truth of the matter is that
it was NOT covered in that article but rather muddied up.
This prompts elders to call headquarters when those cases
come up and then Brooklyn will instruct them verbally on the
matter. This is standard procedure when policy is being reviewed
and the GB have not made up their minds on the matter yet
meaning someone is dissenting and/or questioning the rule.
--- The g93 3/8 in the article: "The Reality Of
Rape" gives us the result of all that deliberation by
the GB. Here is an excerpt: --- ** Myth: A rape victim
bears part of the blame unless she actively resists. ---
Fact: Rape by definition takes place when force or the threat
of force is used to gain sexual penetration, of any kind whatsoever,
against a person's will. It is the rapist's use
of force against an unwilling victim that makes him a rapist.
Thus, a rape victim is not guilty of fornication. Like an
incest victim, she may be forced to submit to an act she doesn't
want because of the perceived power held over her by another
person. When a woman is forced to submit to a rapist out of
terror or disorientation, it does not mean that she consents
to the act. Consent is based on choice without threat and
is active, not passive.** --- It seems that after all
that time they finally decided that it was possible for a
woman to be raped and not be guilty of fornication for not
risking her life in an effort to resist. All that former high-powered,
lofty scriptural reasoning went out of the door with that
article. Of course you must understand that if any woman had
been DF'd, say the week before for not screaming, she
would still be DF'd until she came forward and said
she was sorry for breaking the rule that not longer existed.
That's the way it works. --- Later on this article
appeared which at the very least suggests that the no scream‚ rule
is still in place: w95 4/1 20 Incite to Love And Fine Works-How? "So
today, if a sister has been attacked and raped and this has
caused her to feel dirty and worthless, would it be appropriate
to stress her need of the ransom to cleanse her of that sin?
Certainly not. She did not sin in being assaulted. It is the
rapist who sinned and needs to be cleansed. However, the love
shown by Jehovah and Christ in providing the ransom may be
used as evidence that she has not been defiled in God's
eyes by someone else's sin but that she is precious
to Jehovah and remains in his love.˜Compare Mark 7:18-23;
1 John 4:16." --- As of now, the no scream‚ rule
is still in effect. However note this article in the more
recent w98 12/15 p. 25 and tell me if this doesn't make
your skin crawl as you anticipate a possible switch once more! ˆ ---
** There are, of course, limits to cooperation. Jehovah's
servants do not cooperate in any way that violates God's
law. For example, a Christian would not willingly submit to
rape.** --- My question is: When is willful submission
rape? Does not the very term itself scream out that it is
not done with the victim's permission? --- END
OF QUOTED POSTS from JustJws.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
02:46:37
Comments
Did I read on here in an earlier post that someone asked about
the new book release missing some chapters? -- Well, if I
did read that here, I saw this comment at another forum tonight.
Someone wrote: "It seems that the new United In Worship
book is missing three important chapters that were in the
previous book: The chapter on blood; The chapter on identifying
the 144,000; and one more, but I can't remember what it is.
These were all very important chapters dealing with key doctrinal
issues. Why do you think they were eliminated?" ---
END OF QUOTED POST. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
02:54:23
Comments
You guys will love this/SLC. --- "If you find a lie,
forsake it regardless of who teaches it; it is your duty to
God." (RICHES, p.178) --- "If you have been in
an organization that teaches things contrary to God's Word,
forsake it." (RICHES, p.179) --- RICHES, written by
J. F. Rutherford 1936. --- (I also saw some refer to JFR as "Rutherfraud." LOL!
The comical word-play of some of the "JW-dissidents" is
hysterically funny. /SLC)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
07:03:07
Comments
HI, I have found a translation of the bible that I think may
be a 'good thing'. I few weeks ago a man came up to me and
asked me "May I show you just one small difference in
the bibles printed today?" He proceeded to show me how
Matthew 24:36 reads But as to that day and that hour, no one
knows, neither the angels of Heaven, except My Father only.
(Notice is says day and hour)further down in Matthew 24:42
Watch, then, for you do not know in what hour your Lord comes.
(Notice it says you do not know in what hour) MOST BIBLES
HAVE REPLACED THIS HOUR FOR DAY changing the verse to 'you
do not know in what day your Lord comes. He explained in detail
why this is an important change. I know that later in Matthew
it says day nor hour BUT WHY CHANGE Matthew 24:32? just one
word difference, why? This man who I did not know said to
me that it is the evil one doing it to confuse the children.
It may not be important to anyone but It may be. This following
link, I found a bible that can be read online or even downloaded
that seems 'a good thing' I honestly haven't read it through,
I just thought those interested in a translation that may
be a 'good thing' might want to check it out. www.litvonline.com
If not, sorry to have bothered you all! BLM
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
09:37:17
Comments
RE:the poll:::::::::I just got 8/15/02 Watchtower. It has "To
Whom Should You Be Loyal?" on the cover, and some of
the inside articles it has are "A World With Distorted
Views on Loyalty",,,,,"To Whom Should You Be Loyal?",,,,,,,,,,"I
Set The Pattern For You ( with partially quoted Heb.5:12)",,,,,,,,,,,"Follow
Me Continually",,,,,,,,"How Can Thinking Ability
Safeguard You?",,,,,,,,,,,"Would You Maintain Your
Integrity?".::::::::::::::::::Something tells me that
many JWs might be refusing to follow them blindly. It's a
different time and generation than 1975, you know ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
09:50:35
Comments
To Someone in TX regarding the separating work after WWI:::::::::::::::I
read an article that was similar to that. It was not too long
ago. I can't remember the exact title, but it was talking
about heavenly calling vs. earthly calling. I think the article
said that the earthly calling (the great crowd) began after
1918. So I asked a brother who was a former elder and a faithful
JW for many decades ( I was pre-studying the article with his
family), "if I was a JW back in 1917, would I have a
heavenly calling or at least have a better chance to be in
heaven?" He said that the article meant "more concentration
on the great crowd." ...Hmm ...I'd better
look at it again because I'm sure that it didn't say either "emphasizing" or "concentrating" on
the great crowd, the earthly calling ...Age00
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
09:54:20
Comments
It seems that the lambs are roaring right along. I hope to
make it to N.Y. in September. I don't get out of Tampa
too often. Bill's letter to the GB was profound!!! Breathtaking!!!
** Both Claudine and BJC e-mailed me to tell me that Newsweek
July 8 had published my comment. I bought it yesterday and
sure enough there I was on page 16 with my foot in my mouth.
They edited my comment and changed it somewhat. I have never
referred to a JW as being a member. But the general idea was
the same. ** I showed a co-worker the article because I was
disturbed. I shared some of the conflict that has been going
on inside of me since the Dateline piece aired. His solution
was for the Silentlambs group to form a new church and leave
the old one alone. ** But it isn't about that. It is
about the children and battered women still within the organization.
It is about the thousands who have been damaged and cry out
for justice. ** Pressure must continue on the WTS until they
listen and relent. If I have to suffer the wrath of my local
elders for speaking out and voicing my opinion then so be
it. I may become DF'd but as a sister said to me in
an e-mail,-- Even if this is not a battle we can win; we can
choose the battlefield we die on. I choose this battlefield
and I choose to fight with honor for the sake of the children.
I was unable to stand up for myself and my children twenty
years ago. Today I can stand and fight for others in similar
situations today. They don't have to be alone anymore.
Love ya'll Loris
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
10:03:50
Comments
Hi my name is "manirus". I am a 35 year old male
who from NS Canada who suffered from sexual and various other
forms of ritual abuse. Because of this I have DID or as formerly
known Multiple Personality Disorder. I was not abuse at the
hands of JW's, however, when I went to a body of elders for
support and shepherding they attempted to disfellowship me
as one they felt was demonized. Strange part is they had never
seen me do anything that would be considered strange ... I
guess my point is when you go and expose the shameful things
that have been done to you ... you need support and understanding
... you need a willingness on the elders part to educate themselves
about your situation. Now in my case there was no one accused
who was a JW but knowing how they reacted to the knowledge
of my condition I know they would have covered it up had there
been someone accused of such. I was expendable because they
thought that I was too time consuming. I had to move away
from that congregation but when I tried to get the Society
to deal with the elder for slander and gossip and abuse of
power ... it was covered up and swept under the carpet. I
even had 6 or more witnesses to the slander and such but still
nothing was done. They were more concerned about congregation
Public Relations than the truth. I now am in an other congregation
but things are not much different with these new elders as
they do not like to shepherd ... I am basically now just keeping
to myself ... very rarely go to the hall. I applaud the efforts
that this site is making in exposing such abuse of power and
corruption on the part of brothers who do not do things properly.
Any comments can be sent to manirus@hotmail.com. thanks Manirus
(Many R Us) :)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
13:53:02
Comments
Back at you in Texas, thanks for telling me about the "Worship
the Only True God" being replaced by "United in
Worship of the Only True God". Goodness, I should have
figured that one out on my own. DUH, on my part! Someone mentioned
that there are three chapters that the new book doesn't have,
they are right! Three chapters that are NOT in the new "Worship
the Only True God" but IS in the "United in Worship
of the Only True God" is as follows ...Chapter 14..I
Make a Covenant With You for a Kingdom. Chapter 19..What the
Mosaic Law Means to You. Chapter 20..Life and Blood-Do you
Treat Them as Sacred? It's interesting to see that both books
have the same number of pages. So my question would be this,
is the same information in the new book as the old book, but
just scrambled? I can't imagine THOSE topics not being in
a "Study Book". I'll have to read to find out. Someone
mentioned awhile back about the Watchtower and Awake magazines
not being able to get them as a subscription. That simply
isn't true, I receive ours in the mail. Bill, I hope the peaceful
march in New York, is a huge success! Keep us informed! Someone
in Texas
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
14:09:44
Comments
Hey Jessika. You go girl! If there was anyone to represent
the silentlambs other than Bill, you would be the one I am
proud that you did. Hey is there an address to write to Oprah
and such. I would like to write and give support. To Linda!!
Happy Birthday !! It's great being able to celebrate your
birthday again ain't it!! So Once again Happy Birthday or
as I usually say Happy New Year because you're birthday is
a new year at least in my opinion. Take care mslaydj aka Jean
D. Jones
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
15:14:13
Comments
Thank you Jean for the birthday wish! It was a wonderful birthday
this year! Of course, they all seem to be coming faster and
faster every year! LOL About the new book that's come out
with missing chapters ...I've read somewhere that there is
a good possibility that the Society is planning a new release
on Blood, I just wish I could remember where I read that.
I look up information on so many sites, I have forgotten where
I saw it. Anyway ...I can't help but wonder what the fallout
would be when witnesses who've refused blood for their children
or themselves suddenly start being told the "new understanding" is
that it's all a matter of conscience! I vaguely recall hearing
that a few years ago an "adjustment" was done regarding
the Blood issue, and that the Society only put a very small
and brief comment in the Questions From Readers thingy ...very
sneaky I say. Like, who really reads that? LOL Not me, not
me!!! LOL I find it rather telling that a book is released
that is obviously REPLACING another book, and ...there
are chapters missing ...hmm. Funny how the Insight
Book replaced the Aid Book too, huh? Linda Thoman Linthoman0705@aol.com
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
15:23:14
Comments
I agree with the comment to 'start a new religion' and go
from there ...give the current lambs something to run TO
when they can't get anything out of the WTS ...The WTS may
implode anyway. Lord knows, they deserve to ...'If you always
do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got'.
A big sign of a lack of emotional intelligence is to keep
trying the same thing, over and over and over, even when you
can SEE that it just ain't workin'. Sometimes you just gotta
strike a new path. God bless Bill and all the lambs.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
15:28:20
Comments
One big, big problem I have ...social workers and others in
their field have known FOR YEARS that Jehovah's Witnesses
had a BIG problem with child abuse and sexual abuse ...When
asked recently, 'how could they let this go on?', the response
was, 'You just can't interfere with someone's religion. People
have religious freedom in this country and the freedom to
raise their kids any way they want to.' ...No, they don't.
There are laws to protect against some crimes against children.
There ought to be laws to protect against the rest. Shame
on the decades of social workers and others who have kept
quiet on this topic. I'd like to know what their response
is. Why? I'd like them to tell me why.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
15:34:12
Comments
I don't know about the idea or suggestion to start another
religion ...gosh, don't we have enough already? I personally
don't feel any desire to be a part of any particular denomination.
I don't feel the need to regularly attend a religious facility
of any kind. I've come to the point where I don't believe
that any religion has all the right answers. I will never
again put my trust in what I'm told is the Truth from the
Bible. Everyone has so many various interpretations about
every single subject/doctrine that I get myself dizzy thinking
about it! I have lived my life as a good person, and doing
good things for others as I can, and pretty much follow Do
Unto Others As You'd Have Done To You. Linda Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
15:43:45
Comments
In the North West Derek Hatton does a daily lunchtime phone
in on Century FM radio - a few months ago he covered the Catholic
church cover-up. How about people in the NW email him suggesting
he watch Panorama and consider doing a phone in. http://www.1054centuryfm.com/webClient?guid=2716&site=century105&rs=&action=search
Also how about people in other areas if you have a radio station
that does phone in email them. >>>I found this on
another site, and thought it was a great idea!>>> Linda
Thoman
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
15:56:59
Comments
"
You Might Be A JW If" --- Click this link for some really
good ones! Linda Thoman http://www.serve.com/larryi/mightbe.html
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
18:25:49
Comments
USATODAY.com - States add clergy to sex-abuse laws States
add clergy to sex-abuse laws By Fred Bayles, USA TODAY A growing
number of state legislatures are responding to the sexual
abuse scandal in the Catholic Church by changing laws to make
it a crime when church officials don't report allegations
of sexual abuse of minors. Since January, four states - Massachusetts,
Illinois, Missouri and Colorado - have passed laws that add
clergy to the list of professions specifically required to
report abuse to law enforcement authorities. Eleven others
already had listed clergy, while 18 had required everyone
to report sexual abuse. Bills are moving forward in several
states, and more legislatures are expected to take up the
subject when they convene this fall or next year. "The
scandal is so far-reaching it was important to make a stand," says
state Rep. Rosemary Mulligan, a sponsor of Illinois' new legislation. "We
have to put in safeguards for the welfare of children." All
states have some form of mandatory reporting laws for hospital
workers, teachers and other professionals who come in contact
with children. Often they were established to provide a broad
web of surveillance designed to spot signs of abuse. The new
laws are more a response to accusations that Catholic Church
officials across the nation have covered up abuse by priests.
An estimated 250 priests nationwide have resigned or been
suspended since January, when the conviction of a notorious
pedophile priest in Boston drew national attention. Many states
with reporting laws offer some form of exemption for clergy.
Catholic priests are prohibited by church law from revealing
information learned in confessions, and other clergy often
have confidentiality rules for pastoral counseling. Much of
the new legislation has faced little opposition. The Massachusetts
bill passed in April after Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law said
the Church would drop its long-standing opposition. Law is
a defendant in a number of lawsuits that accuse him of covering
up or ignoring sexual abuse of minors by several priests over
many years. But there has been opposition by clergy in Connecticut
and Minnesota, who say the laws could infringe on religious
freedoms. John Garvey, dean of the Boston College Law School,
says the legislative efforts are understandable given public
concern over the issue. "The issue has shown we need
more reporting and enforcement," he says
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
18:36:56
Comments
QUOTED FROM ANOTHER SOURCE -- Merely FYI -- Top WTS Leader
in Japan DF'd --- Hi, friends: Thought you might be interested:
I have it on reliable source that one of the founding JWs
in Japan, who has been serving as a branch coordinator, was
recently disfellowshipped. According to the sources, Toshio
Honma is a top-ranking JW at the Japanese branch. He may be
highest ranking JW who has ever been disfellowshipped in Japan,
except for Junzo Akashi who was DF'ed shortly after the World
War II ended. We're trying to find out the reason for his
DFing. It is noteworthy because Japan has been one of the
WTS's stronghold's in the world in recent years. Numbers were
soaring in Japan (and Russia) while they were dwindling elsewhere
in the world. The question now is, will this former high-ranking
JW speak out in Japan as Ray Franz did here and abroad? Quote
from the 1998 Yearbook with reference to Toshio Honma's WT
organization servitude in Japan: ==========================
*** yb98 112-3 Japan *** Native Brothers Take Heavier Responsibility
In April 1975, Lloyd Barry, who had been the branch overseer
since 1952, left Japan to serve as a member of the Governing
Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. He had zealously shared in the
work during the time that the theocratic organization grew
from 8 publishers in 1949 to over 30,000 zealous Kingdom proclaimers.
At his departure the oversight of the branch was entrusted
to Toshio Honma, a native Japanese brother who was then serving
as the factory overseer. Regarding Brother Honma's abilities,
his assistant in the factory said: "Toshio wasn't one
to sit back and wait for someone to tell him what to do every
step along the way. You could give him a job and tell him,
'This is the direction we're going,' and then he could take
the ball and run. He was a good organizer and got people motivated." Another
organizational change took place in February 1976. In unison
with all the other branches throughout the world, the branch
oversight in Japan was put under a committee of brothers rather
than under a single branch overseer. The five initially appointed
were Toshio Honma, the coordinator, Masataro Oda, Shigeo Ikehata,
Kiichiro Tanaka, and James Mantz. This new arrangement was
readily accepted by the Japanese brothers, as they were very
familiar with the concept of group approach and consensus
seeking in the decision-making process. One of the committee
members later observed: "With the Branch Committee arrangement,
the brothers look to a group of mature brothers as the representatives
of the organization. This has the effect of directing the
brothers' attention to God's organization rather than to an
individual." When a weighty decision must be made, this
arrangement provides a group of spiritual men with varied
backgrounds and abilities to consider it and to seek the direction
of the holy spirit and of God's Word. In January 1983, Masataro
Oda, who had served at Bethel since February 1960, became
the coordinator. He replaced Brother Honma, who by this time
had a two-year-old son to provide for. Others who have since
served on the Branch Committee for varying periods of time
include Ryosuke Fujimoto, Percy Iszlaub, Isamu Sugiura, Yoshihiro
Nagasaki, Makoto Nakajima, Kenji Mimura, and Richard Bailey.
Currently seven brothers serve on the Branch Committee. As
the work has expanded, each of these brothers has humbly contributed
his talents to the advancement of the interests of God's Kingdom
in this part of the world field. ================================
End Yearbook quote. --- And another person replied
to the above post as follows: Dear xxx, This is huge! I personally
know Toshio Homna as he and I organized a xxx in Japan five
years ago. In fact, it was that xxx which led to my official
Disfellowshipment. The "brother" with whom I had
an agreement for x amount of dollars for five xxxx in Japan
robbed me out of my money when it was pay time. Mr. Homna
was totally honest and upright in the entire debacle and even
took money out of is own pocket to reimburse me some funds.
I was contracted the year after directly by Mr. Homna for
a xxx, but had to pull out a week before my plane left for
Japan due to my having been disfellowshipped. I wrote Mr.
Homna and told him I would not insist on his respecting the
contract and simply left off amicably - something which he
appreciated immensely. He is a dear man to whom I mailed many
letters and even a transcript of my judicial hearings. I'm
overjoyed by this news. Do you know how I can contact him?
Cordially, xxxx END OF QUOTED POSTS.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
18:42:10
Comments
Follow-Up to the Japan Post, this justin by the second poster,
merely for clarification on his/her last comments at the end:
QUOTE: "So as not to be misunderstood; I'm overjoyed
if Mr. Homna's Disfellowshipment is a result of his discovering
the fallacious claims and teachings of the organization. His
being disfellowshipped in and of itself does not provoke any
felicity in me whatsoever. I know that his life will change
significantly as he was a highly venerated figure in Japan
and no doubt will be ostracized. I'm sure you understood
my words in that manner, I just thought I should clarify for
the other(s). When I re-read my post, it did seem worded in
a way that could mislead. Cordially, xxxx --- END QUOTE.
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
18:47:07
Comments
My deepest respect and christian love goes out to you. Jehovah
is using you to clean up this organization! My husband and
I are still JW's (well let's just say we are not DF but refuse
to attend because of all the injustices we have witnessed,
we are labeled inactive) not just toward our family but of
course to Jehovah God. I just called my husband on his mobile
to tell him about the Sept. March on the WT. We are so excited!
We are going to try to be there. My husband has wanted to
March on the local KH because of some pedophile activity that
was not handled. It's clean up time and Jehovah is on our
side. Woe to the Scribes & Pharisees!! Thank you for
having such great love for your brothers and sisters and,
of course, our innocent children!
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
18:48:07
Comments
Greetings to ManiRus (good name!) Thank you for sharing your
story. So sorry to hear of your experiences, and I definitely
believe you, and I would probably end up doing as you describe
(keeping it to yourself), though it should NOT have to be
that way. People are still way too ignorant about these things.
Jehovah loves you and knows your suffering and how his so-called
shepherds have not cared for you tenderly. --- In Bill Bowen's
email about the MARCH in September (above), you see he is
asking for EYE WITNESSES of such experiences as yours to go
to NY for the march. It's too bad more persons who have experienced
or know of actual incidents cannot all go to NY. --- Hang
in there ManiRus and keep in touch. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
18:48:35
Comments
Tim The Tool Man in Michigan - funny. Always appreciate the
humor. ;)
Remote User:
Date:
09 Jul 2002
Time:
19:08:25
Comments
Thanks to everybody for the info on the new book. Please keep
us informed! -- To Texas: As for the subscriptions by mail:
In my situation, it is a FACT that my mags for several months
came with Red Lettering on the white covers stating that when
my 1-year subs expired, I would no longer be able to get them
via mail. My subs expired in June, and therefore, no more
mags have been forthcoming via mail. The Red Lettering/Message
on the covers for several months stated that once my subs
expired, I would have to get the mags from a K.Hall. Therefore,
either your sub has not yet expired; or they are not allowing
DF'd persons (like me) to get the mags via sub/mail any longer.
--- Agree with Jesika's comment that Bill's letter to the
GB was profound to say the least! I bet the GB is already
expecting that the ground will open up in front of 25 Columbia
Heights and swallow up all the lambs on 9/27 (and/or fire
will rain down from heaven and wipe them out - a.k.a Korah,
etc.). --- Thanks to (? I forget) who told us what the latest
8/15/02 WT is all about (Loyalty, etc.). Good Timing via Holy
Spirit or A Mad Dash by the Writing Dept. after Dateline/Newsweek???
;) (Seems I used to hear in my JW-days that the mags are printed
so far in advance, that if they appeared "timely" that
that was an obvious manifestation of Jah's spirit on whatever
subject matter-???) --- Oh, just a thought: I notice some
people are writing notes to Bill Bowen via this Guestbook.
Now, I have no idea how often he actually has time to read
the Guestbook, but I would think if you want/need to get a
message to him or ask specific questions about the March,
or make requests, etc., you should email him directly (via
the Email Button on the Home Page). --- Sorry I was out
of commission for awhile and missed replying to specific posts.
Always thinking of everyone even when not online. Blessings
to all. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
03:54:57
Comments
I am so overwhelmed by this website I can scarcely believe
what I have read so far. But as we all have been witness to
by TV and News accounts the Catholic Church was recently accused
and admitted under fire that it's Priests had been quietly
sequestered away in some small diocese either out here in
New Mexico, or back east in seclusion and still allowed contact
with minors. Now the very same sick attitude has been discovered
within the Jehovah's Witness Congregations. My Lord in Heaven
what is happening to this world? Thank you so much for bringing
this to our attention as well as 100's of thousands of other "trusting" Christians ...Is
this the beginning of the Tribulation described in Revelation?
I would not be supervised as first there must be a " Great
Falling away"! In Jesus Name, Mike and Sharon Simpson
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
03:57:18
Comments
THE GARBAGE MAN COMETH ... --- JC wrote: "I am a little
tired of hearing brothers saying "Leave it to Jehovah!!" I
don't recall this frais (phrase) being made by the early Christians!!" ---
REPLY: Hi JC! The Witnesses are probably thinking of scriptures
like Ps. 37:7, where it says to "Keep silent before Jehovah,
and WAIT longingly for him." However, I believe, from
the entire chapter, that it pertains to waiting for God's
final judgment over the entire earth. I doubt seriously Jehovah
would be looking down from heaven, watching a child being
brutally raped, and thinking to himself, "Child, KEEP
SILENT BEFORE ME while you are BEING RAPED. WAIT LONGINGLY
FOR ME until the New Earth, and KEEP SILENT until then." ---
If we were to apply Ps. 37:7 (wait for Jehovah) to instances
where we see "our neighbor" being tormented, how
would that be "loving your neighbor as yourself"?
It wouldn't. It would be more like all of us, sitting in our
homes with our trash cans overflowing, and REFUSING TO TAKE
OUT THE GARBAGE, but instead, we sit back in our Lazy Boy and
defiantly say, "I'm NOT budging from my chair to take
out the trash. I'll WAIT until the garbage collector COMES
IN MY HOUSE HIMSELF to get my garbage." --- So I sat
and sat decade after decade, one trash can full, then two,
then three, etc., and the smelly trash and garbage was piled
all the way to the ceiling, and the smell was horrendous.
Finally my neighbors complained about my stinking garbage
to Channel 2, and they, in turn, told the "superior authorities," The
County HEALTH Dept., because my garbage was smelling up the
ENTIRE neighborhood. The STENCH was more than anyone could
bear any longer. (Me, well, I just wore a GAS-MASK in MY house
ALL the time so I would be able to endure it, even though
it WAS very UNpleasant, and I sometimes felt I SHOULD take
out my garbage, but aren't we SUPPOSED to "hide" our
garbage from the neighbors when it gets this bad?) --- So
then the HEALTH Dept. shows up and CONDEMNS my ENTIRE HOUSE,
and they HAUL OUT my Garbage RIGHT IN FRONT of ALL the neighbors,
with Channel 2 recording the entire event! HOW EMBARRASSING!
Why is this happening to me, I wondered? Surely, the DEVIL
IS PERSECUTING ME! So I raised cain and cursed all my neighbors
and Channel 2 as LIARS telling them there really was NO garbage
in my house! But it was too late. By that time NOBODY would
believe my house was NOT full of garbage because the EVIDENCE
was TOO GREAT. --- Previously, when my neighbors had lovingly
asked if I would like them to wash me down with the hose to
get the STENCH off me, I refused (pride, you know). So I was
thereafter forcefully taken away and washed down by the superior
authorities, and my house was condemned. And all of this shame
and humiliation came about due to my not wanting to take out
the trash a long long time ago, because I expected the Garbage
Man would come in and get it himself. --- /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
03:58:07
Comments
I am so overwhelmed by this website I can scarcely believe
what I have read so far. But as we all have been witness to
by TV and News accounts the Catholic Church was recently accused
and admitted under fire that it's Priests had been quietly
sequestered away in some small diocese either out here in
New Mexico, or back east in seclusion and still allowed contact
with minors. Now the very same sick attitude has been discovered
within the Jehovah's Witness Congregations. My Lord in Heaven
what is happening to this world? Thank you so much for bringing
this to our attention as well as 100's of thousands of other "trusting" Christians ...Is
this the beginning of the Tribulation described in Revelation?
I would not be supervised as first there must be a " Great
Falling away"! In Jesus Name, Mike and Sharon Simpson
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
03:59:38
Comments
I am so overwhelmed by this website I can scarcely believe
what I have read so far. But as we all have been witness to
by TV and News accounts the Catholic Church was recently accused
and admitted under fire that it's Priests had been quietly
sequestered away in some small diocese either out here in
New Mexico, or back east in seclusion and still allowed contact
with minors. Now the very same sick attitude has been discovered
within the Jehovah's Witness Congregations. My Lord in Heaven
what is happening to this world? Thank you so much for bringing
this to our attention as well as 100's of thousands of other "trusting" Christians ...Is
this the beginning of the Tribulation described in Revelation?
I would not be surprised as first there must be a " Great
Falling away"! In Jesus Name, Mike and Sharon Simpson
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:04:42
Comments
THIS is just one of MANY experiences which belong in the "RIPLEY'S
BELIEVE IT OR NOT MUSEUM": Cynthia had written: "I
did spend two years married to a JW who used to batter and
beat me. The elders never did speak to him about it because
since beating your wife was not a DFing offense, they could
not get involved." --- Dear Cyn: So Sorry! The "believe
or not part" is NOT what happened to you at the hands
of your ex-husband, but the LACK OF ACTION and IRRATIONAL
THINKING by the elders. I hope you are much better now. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:08:38
Comments
HI EMMA! CONGRATULATIONS on your COURAGE on CONFRONTING YOUR
ABUSER and taking him (your father) to court! Thank you for
adding your story to the mountain of evidence. Each and every
single victim/survivor story is precious to us. I'm so happy
to hear he has to do prison time -- but it should be 27 years
instead of 4! Take care of yourself and come back often, if
you like. Love/SLC --- Emma had written: "My
name is Emma and i went through exactly the same thing. I
took my father to court July 2001 and he was sentenced to
4 Yrs imprisonment. The elders in our local congregation tried
to cover it up and it took until i was 27 to build up the
courage to go to the police. I watched the program and sobbed
all the way through. How dare we have our freedom of speech
taken away from us. I left the religion at 16 yrs old and
have never looked back ..."
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:10:17
Comments
VOTED BEST COMBINATION HUMOR-&-WISE-COUNSEL for the day: "Before
you get on your high horse take a good look and make sure
you are not riding on an ass." --- Thanks Loris for
that one! ;) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:11:12
Comments
Linda wrote: "Drumroll please ..." --- LOL! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:11:42
Comments
Brother Joe Anderson's letter to the Society was EXCELLENT!
Three cheers for Bro. Anderson (who is Barbara Anderson's
husband). /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:13:30
Comments
Someone asked: "One other question, I hear a lot of "they
need to revamp their position on how they handle pedophiles",
but I have not seen one suggestion that would protect the
innocent as well as judge the guilty, what's your suggestion?" ---
ANSWER: DNA. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:23:51
Comments
SM: I was saddened to hear about your brother with epilepsy
who is forgotten by his "friends" in the congregation.
--- "We EXHORT YOU, brothers ... SUPPORT THE WEAK ..." [1
Th.5:14] --- Of course, most JWs would take that to mean
only help "spiritually weak" persons to go out in
field service. I can say that because I used to be a JW who
thought the same way. There was so much pressure to get in "time," that
with work and meetings and service, who had time or energy
left for caring for the PHYSICAL NEEDS of the weak? (It's
no excuse, just shows the unbalanced thinking.) Please give
greetings to your brother from all the Silent Lambs. Agape/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:26:19
Comments
gaadzooks@hotmail.com asked if anybody had details about the
UK letter read to the congs on 7/14/02. Dear gaadzooks (cool
name): I know that letter is posted somewhere at the Jehovahs-Witnesses.com
forums. Go to that site, and use their search feature. Type
in "UK" and "Letter" and you will be able
to find it, I'm SURE because I saw it, I just don't have the
direct link for it. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:32:18
Comments
TO webmaster@antijehovahswitness.com --- Thanks for that "new
light" link to JW-media.org about the WTS's UK "New,
Improved, 100% Guaranteed to Get The Dirt Out" advice
on reporting abuse to the authorities. Well, Better Late Than
Never, eh? However, my question would be: WHAT DATE did they
put that on their website? I wonder if it was the SAME DAY
the UK Parliament was ASKED TO INVESTIGATE the WTBTS for covering
up sex crimes? (The Parliament info is posted further up in
this Guestbook, two or three days ago I think). /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:41:14
Comments
Hi Barb at bnaftis@cs.com: I REALLY LIKED your stuffed lambs
with mouths-sewn-shut idea. That is excellent! We need to
find a company that MAKES stuffed animals (lambs) and ask
them to DONATE a bunch of them. (I'm thinking Oprah again ...
whatever she asks for, she gets from the retail world!) ;)
A simple search on the net for "stuffed animals - lambs" might
do the trick to get a source. Then a letter to the president
of the company. We never know unless we ask, eh? --- Yes,
you were brainstorming good there. Keep the ideas coming!
Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:43:03
Comments
PS to the above comment to Barb and others: What about little
lapel pins of little lambs, and also bumper stickers for silentlambs.org?
I bet if businesses knew about this cause, they would donate.
What do you ladies think? /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:44:35
Comments
BLM wrote a FUNNY play-on-words when she said: "Thanks
Barb for being zealest and 'zealing' us all!" --- Good
one, BL! I love making words come ALIVE like that! Cute! /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:47:37
Comments
BLUE RIBBON AWARD FOR "ESSAY OF THE DAY" goes to
bjc2read@yahoo.com! AMEN, "sister"! What you describe
regarding the "thinking" of the JWs is soooo true.
I know, because I used to think the SAME way when I was a
JW. I would NEVER have questioned the GB, because I was blind
as to their "human-ness." Thanks for putting it
in such clear language. /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
04:50:41
Comments
To BLM and Someone In Texas: Thanks, girls, for the nice comments
on my attempts at serious-humor! ;) And, Loris, I was going
to write you back channel tonight, but I've been sitting here
almost 12 hours now. Hang on to that PDF ... I'll write soon!
Thanks again! Night All! Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:04:48
Comments
BAD NEWS!!! All posts from between July 9th and July 20th
are MISSING! Yipes!!!! That's 11 DAYS of POSTS NOT SHOWING
UP!!! Not again!!! (I spent hours replying to posts tonight.
Total bummer!) -- I'm hoping it is just some weird quirk of
my computer. Is anyone else noticing that the DATES skip from
July 9th to July 20th? /Grieving, SLC :-(
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:17:36
Comments
To All Lambs who Post Here: I just got a little adrenaline
rush from seeing all the missing posts ... I was going to
bed. But while I'm thinking about it: It has been on my mind
for awhile to ask if we should create a separate private yahoo group
so we could "continue" our conversations over there
in more detail. This, of course, is NOT TO SAY we would take
ANYTHING AWAY from the SIlent Lambs SITE, but only if we want
to "chat" via email in more detail, then we would
have a "private place" to do it, and everyone who
signed up for the group would receive the emails. We could
make it a "restricted" group which means members
would have to be approved. It's just an idea. I will gladly
set it up if you like. I know how, 'cuz I've done it before,
piece of cake. Give it some thought, and give your vote for
(1) Whether you ladies (and gents) would like such an email
group? and (2) If you would, then what name would you like
to call it? Here is all I could think of so far: --- Land_O_Lambs
--- Lambs_Landing --- Lambs_Annex --- Lambs_Rising ---
If I think of any others, I'll pass them on. Later Lambs,
;) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:26:58
Comments
Well, I reloaded the Guestbook page TWICE and the posts are
STILL MISSING. I will zap a quick note to the webmaster. This
is so sad! I kept copies of SOME of my posts, so I'll see
what I can dig up. I'm pooped, but if I don't do it now, I
may never back-track. Everyone, guess it would be a good idea
to keep copies of your posts ... at least for now. Later, Boo
Hoo, SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:27:56
Comments
FYI: Barbara Anderson postponing hearing --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date:
Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:13:51 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject:
Anderson Postpone's Hearing --- Barb Anderson has decided
to postpone the hearing for two weeks. So the appeal hearing
is off for this weekend. So pass it around for anyone who
might be planning to make the trip. It is stressful to try
to get ready for a meeting with a three day notice. So Anderson's
attorney is going to ask for a postpone in the morning. That
is the latest info. Regards, bill
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:49:35
Comments
Hi. I am Alison Cousins who you will have heard about in the
BBC program, if any person would like to write to me about
the program or give me there comments please feel free to
do so. My email address is: SANDYCOUSINS@HOTMAIL.COM Looking
forward to hearing from you. Good Luck and God Bless, Bill.
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:50:20
Comments
Somebody named "WE" wrote: "It looks like disfellowshipping
is 'losing its punch'. The goal was to eradicate the DF'd
person ... But DF'd people are listening to each other. And
the press is listening. And members of parliament are listening.
And we are listening." --- Hello WE! We LOVE you. Who
might "WE" be? Are you a current JW, like our friend
Mr. Mole? Either way, we are glad WE is listening! WE-LCOME!
;) /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:51:11
Comments
Debradolls wrote: "As a legal student I am interested
in legal recourse available for sexual crimes committed 29
yrs ago. Any information would be most welcome. debradolls@aol.com." ---
Dear DDolls: The best guess I have is it would depend on the
laws of whatever particular STATE you are interested in. Their
laws when the sex crime was committed, AND any more recent
legislation that may have been passed in your state since
then. Go to one of the law sites online to find the statues
for your state. Or do a search like so: Statutes - Colorado
(or whichever state). Or, you could email your governor's
office and/or your local congressional representatives (all
of them have websites, and ask them to direct you to the statues
online for your state re: sex crimes). Or, you could visit
your local LAW library in person, usually found in the local
courthouse (look up Law Library in your blue pages of your
phone book, under your county). Other than that, I'm fresh
out of ideas. Anyone else? /SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:52:07
Comments
REPOSTING: --- Hi LORIS!!! So SORRY for not replying yet.
I had every intention of answering you yesterday, but pooped
out and never got to finish. You're welcome about the "Ezekiel
pep talk." What you say is so true. The WTS tries to "scare
us" against speaking up, like in the dramas and articles
of Korah and Abiram (sp?), and believe me, those dramas really
put the "fear" into me (I remember the Korah drama
was also done years ago in the '80s, and my heart was just
a pounding!). -- Yet, like you say, when we look at scriptures
like the man with the inkhorn, and also about Eli and his
sons, then it would make sense to NOT be on the side of the
WT. Whew! It's really some HEAVY stuff. I liked how you mentioned
we are being allowed to "see through the hole in the
temple wall." I feel PRIVILEGED to be allowed to rally
up on the side of Silent Lambs, and be allowed to SEE thru
that hole, yes; as apparently many who are still JWs can't
even SEE IT themselves, which is heartbreaking. --- Yeah,
once in awhile ol' SLC here can get on a roll. I'm glad you
gave me a name of what to call it (i.e., "tongue in cheek")
re: Daniel Ch. 5. I wasn't sure how to describe it, short
of saying I was "altering scripture" which that
thought in itself scares me a little, too. In all sincerity
I wanted to see "if the shoe would fit," so to speak,
after I "filled in the blanks." And I know what
you mean about wanting to laugh and cry at the same time.
I tend to wake up feeling "fired up" about this
sex abuse scandal, but I tend to go to bed feeling very sad
about it all. --- I relayed my Daniel "exercise" to
a friend over the phone, who has little Bible knowledge, but
knows about JWs from and the GB and other things I've explained
over the years. Once he got the parallels straight in his
head, he was filling in the blanks of the story himself as
I was describing that chapter in Daniel. It surprised me that
he "caught on" to the parallels. At the end, he
said "very very interesting ..." and also chuckled
at the 62 years too late. ;) --- Thanks for going to all
the trouble with the PDF. To be continued next post ... Love/SLC
--- LORIS had written: *** Thanks
SLC for the Ezekiel pep talk. I have been thinking about him
lately. About how he was allowed to look through a hole in
the temple wall (in a vision) He saw the older men doing such
gross disgusting things in Jehovah's house. We are being allowed
to see inside the modern temple and it is disgusting. I think
I need to get out of the way of the men with the weapons of
smashing. I would not want to be mistaken for a supporter
of the filth. *** But you seemed to be on a roll. That tongue
in cheek rendition of Daniel 5 was a hoot. actually it is
delirious. There was no way I could explain why I suddenly
burst out laughing and had tears running down my cheeks. My
co-workers would just not get the punch line. It is definitely
an inside joke. *** I am going to work on the converting the
PDF to text. I will post it when I succeed. *** Love, Loris
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:52:56
Comments
REPOSTING --- #2 to LORIS --- Hi Again LORIS!!! Wow, that
sounds like a complicated project with the PDF BOE letter.
So many "steps" to go thru. Is there an icon in
the Adobe Acrobat Reader which "converts PDF to text"?
I couldn't find it when I was looking at that letter earlier
last week, or whenever it was. THANK YOU for going to all
that effort. I will have to read the letter again to remember
which points "got my goat." I will email you and
at your convenience you can zap me the whole thing via email
and I will "study" it again and pick out whichever
portions irked me. Yes, I remember it was Very Long. Thanks
for your email addy. (I guess I need to get a web-mail, which
I've had zillions of those since getting online, but I never
keep them because I like working out of my real ISP email,
but I don't want to put that one in the Guestbook. I have
another idea, but haven't had time to work on it, but will
let you guys know when I do it.) ;) THANKS AGAIN LORIS!!!
Love/SLC --- LORIS had written:
To SLC, *** I opened the BOE letter in Adobe Acrobat. There
is a way to convert the .pdf into text that can be copy and
pasted. But it was apparently created in another format then
made into a .pdf I e-mailed it to myself at home (I am at
work now.)I will scan it at home. My scanner will recognize
text and convert it. I will let you know how it works out.
Loris --- and --- to SLC I have the text of the
BOE letter that was a pdf file. I scanned it and converted
it to text. I can e-mail it or else tell me which section
you want posted for discussion. It is seven pages long so
maybe you don't want the whole thing posted here. Let me know.
Loris ljmatheny@emtecae.com --- and ---
*** Sorry SLC I gave an incorrect e-mail it is lmatheny@emtecae.com
I inserted my middle initial in there my middle name is JOY
isn't that a laugh. I haven't had much of that. My mother
gave me that one (you know the woman who made me marry the
man who raped me at 14.) Life's little jokes are not funny
I love you guys. *** Loris
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:55:49
Comments
REPOSTING --- #3 to LORIS --- Dear LORIS!!! Thank you
for sharing with us about your visit by the elders and your
girlfriend (ugh! I would like to shake some sense into that
sis! Your explanation to her was magnificent! If she is truly
sorry you missed hearing the letter read to the congregation
that night, it probably would have shocked her even more to
know it has been posted online for weeks, and you can read
it any time.) ;-) I also received your letter to Bill via
the SL email list. I am SO SORRY that your "friends" at
the KH, your local "spiritual" overseers, and the
leaders at HQ would even stoop to view standing up for abuse
victims as somehow disloyal or anything LESS than COMPLETELY
RIGHTEOUS. It is SO utterly twisted for them to think this
way (Isaiah 5:20). They have their "thinking caps" on
BACKWARDS, to say the least. --- Your letter to Bill was
FULL of inspiration, courage, determination and strength.
I cannot imagine what it would feel like know there was a
'special needs talk' and that 'you're it.' Surely many in
your cong are shaking their heads in shame and pain as to
how the elders and the society in general are acting, but
they are too afraid to speak up. I am sure they ADMIRE YOU
in their hearts, but have not worked up the courage themselves
to take a stand. If that sis is a gossip, many people probably
know that already and will see right through her. --- Also,
remember the saying, "Let your pain be your pulpit. Let
your mess be your mission." (I heard that on TV and I
really liked it, because I remember my former JW-friend [an
older sister] who, long before this sex abuse scandal, used
to tell me regarding things I had experienced in the world
before ever becoming a JW: She would say that all things we
have experienced and suffered is what makes us a good Witness,
in that we can use those very experiences and pain to help
others with the same problems. I would say NOW is the BEST
TIME to be using that experience and compassion that we who
gather here have for abuse victims ... [This sis had first-hand
experience of many years with an unfaithful, gambling, alcoholic
JW husband, so she was speaking from experience herself, and
she helped others with those kinds of problems, even doing
it "underground" where needed, directing "the
friends" to AA, Al-anon, GA, etc. because she would say
that the JWs did not have appropriate services to help people
with such problems. And that sis of which I speak, she had
been raised in the truth, a "lifer" if you will.
And she never got DF'd for it.]) --- Anyway, her words have "echoed" in
my head many times over the years, and especially so since
this exposure of child sex abuse and it's cover-up and lambs
being "silenced." All the field-service-time in
the world does not compare one iota to ONE HUG or ONE SUPPORTIVE
WORD or ACTION in behalf of child or any other victim who
has been abused. I am CERTAIN Jehovah HIMSELF SEES IT THAT
WAY, don't you? --- I wonder if Jehovah would mind me making
a temporary adjustment to a few more of his scriptures? This
one is dedicated to LORIS: --- "With YOUR GOODNESS
you proceeded to make it READY for the AFFLICTED ONE, O God.
Jehovah himself gives the saying: 'The WOMEN telling (and
exposing) the GOOD NEWS (JUSTICE for the LAMBS) are a LARGE
ARMY. Even the kings (GB) of (JWs) armies flee, they flee
(from the Panorama reporter). AS FOR HER (LORIS) WHO ABIDES
AT HOME, SHE SHARES IN THE SPOIL (!!!!) ... Blessed be Jehovah,
who DAILY CARRIES the LOAD for us, the true God of our salvation ... INDEED God himself will BREAK the head of his enemies
in pieces (the Abusers & Silencers of the Silent Lambs),
the hairy crown of the head of ANYONE WALKING ABOUT IN HIS
GUILTINESS ... They (the world and JWs) have SEEN your PROCESSIONS,
O God (media coverage and the March of the Silent Lambs),
the PROCESSIONS of my God, My King, INTO THE HOLY PLACE (NY-HQ).
The singers went in front (the individual Silenced Lambs),
the players on stringed instruments after them (B. Bowen and
other elders who are taking a stand), [and] in between were
the MAIDENS BEATING TAMBOURINES (that would be the rest of
us - I guess we are making too much noise, eh?) ... REBUKE
the wild beast of the reeds (the abusers and molesters in
their hiding places, cowering behind the bushes), [and] the
ASSEMBLY OF THE BULLS (the hard-headed elders and GB members
who disgrace the lambs), with the CALVES of the PEOPLES (silent
lambs and supporters), EACH ONE STAMPING DOWN on pieces of
silver (lawsuits for damages of GB policy on all silent lambs).
He has SCATTERED the peoples THAT TAKE DELIGHT IN FIGHTS (the
JWs who mock, disgrace, dehumanize, insult and curse the lambs,
their supporters and the media who cover the cause of the
lambs) ...God is fear-inspiring OUT OF your grand sanctuary
(Heaven), The God of Israel he is, GIVING STRENGTH, EVEN MIGHT
to the PEOPLE (the PEOPLE, not the GB). Blessed be God." (Psalms
68:10,11,12,18,19,21,24,25,30,35) --- Hang in there, LORIS!
If you are handed the "A" on a silver platter, see
above "tongue in cheek" scripture. You will be in
good company! ;) I'll back channel you soon. Love/SLC
Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:56:36
Comments
REPOSTING --- THIS COMMENT IS TO LORIS' "friend" AND
ALL OTHER JWs who have the mind set that JWs themselves (such
as Bill Bowen and other elders and publishers) should NOT
be speaking up publicly about the sex abuse, the coverup,
the policy, etc., and who STILL feel everyone should just "sit
back" and "WAIT ON JEHOVAH" --- WAIT for Jehovah
TO DO WHAT? Send Angels to the GB's office? Does not Jehovah
ALWAYS USE HUMANS TO GET HIS WILL DONE? Read These Lips :-O
In the above 68th Chapter of Psalms, while reading it, a few
verses jumped out at me. I did not include them above because
I wanted to make them a separate post. Read the whole chapter
to get the entire picture, or read at least the few several
verses (Ps.68:22-26) leading up to the ones I am going to
type out: --- "There is LITTLE Benjamin SUBDUING THEM,
the princes of Judah WITH THEIR SHOUTING CROWD, the princes
of Zebulun, the princes of Naphtali. YOUR GOD has laid command
UPON YOUR STRENGTH. (pay attention to this NEXT verse): DO
SHOW STRENGTH, O God, YOU who have ACTED FOR US." (Ps.68:27,28).
--- (I WISH I could make BOLD and UNDERLINE! <frustration>)
--- Did you NOTICE the point? Verse 28 says that it is GOD
who is "ACTING FOR US." Yet was it REALLY JEHOVAH
HIMSELF who "materialized himself" and came down out
of heaven and took up the battle with Israel's enemies? NO
NO NO!!!! He used LITTLE BENJAMIN and Judah's SHOUTING CROWD.
In other words, he USED HUMANS TO GET THINGS DONE. So does
it REALLY make sense to expect every JW should keep sitting
on their "duff" and "wait on Jehovah" and
keep DOING NOTHING? Jehovah uses PEOPLE to get things accomplished.
But you ALREADY know that, don't you? You just never THOUGHT
of it in THIS (sex abuse) context, i.e., that you should SPEAK
UP re: the silencing of the lambs, and the covering over of
their abusers. --- Scenario: If you had worldly neighbors,
friendly people who you sometimes chatted with across the
fence. And you learned their child had been abused by the
neighborhood gardner or whoever, and the child confided in
you. WOULD YOU DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT? WOULD YOU HELP THAT "WORLDLY" CHILD?
OR WOULD YOU SIT ON YOUR DUFF AND LET THE ABUSE CONTINUE?
WHAT IF IT WAS THE CHILD'S FATHER ABUSING THEM? WOULD YOU
CONFRONT THE FATHER? WHAT IF HE TELLS YOU TO KEEP IT QUIET?
WOULD YOU SAY, "OK. Sorry. I'll mind my own business." ????
OR WOULD YOU GO TO POLICE, THE CPS, THE OTHER NEIGHBORS, AND
KEEP SPEAKING OUT UNTIL SOMEONE HELPED THE CHILD? DO YOU THINK
JEHOVAH HIMSELF WOULD WANT YOU TO HELP THAT "WORLDLY" CHILD?
Of COURSE, HE WOULD!! THEN HOW MUCH MORE SO THOSE WHO ARE
'RELATED TO YOU IN THE FAITH'? (Galatians 6:10) --- That
bears repeating: "So let us NOT GIVE UP in doing what
is FINE, for in due season we shall reap if we DO NOT TIRE
OUT. REALLY THEN, as long as we have TIME FAVORABLE for it,
LET US WORK what is GOOD toward ALL, but ESPECIALLY toward
THOSE RELATED TO US IN THE FAITH." (Gal. 6:9,10). That
scripture ALONE should -- SHOULD -- prevent ANY CHILD's abuse
from EVER being SILENCED EVER AGAIN, be they JW or otherwise.
It should also, I hope, make ALL JWs STOP and THINK before
they sputter out anymore words about waiting on Jehovah, and
heaping insults at their brothers and sisters who ARE DOING
SOMETHING ABOUT silent lambs. Thank you. /SLC
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