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June 2002 Guestbook - Page 2

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June 2002 Guest Book Part 2

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
05:48:08
Comments

The bottom line is that JW's care more about their OWN salvation than any other person's. More than their spouse, more than their family, more than their own children. And they have the cold-hearted, ignorant GALL to believe that God does, too.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
06:20:37
Comments

I would add one more to the list of commandments....JOURNAL.....anxiety can make the same thoughts come up over and over and over. It FEELS like they are ENDLESS. But they are not. Organize things in whatever way you like. But you might want to write down, what - physically - happened. The actual event. Then explore your feelings, how you felt about it, how you feel about it, how you fear or anticipate or wish that you might feel in the future, how you WANT to feel, etc., etc., etc., WHENEVER something comes up, write it down.....It is a very comforting and calming feeling to reach the point where you can now say that EVERYTHING is in these pages. And to realize that tho this event has impacted your life tremendously, it is not ALL that is your life. It is a part of your life. Only one tragic part. Life, even your life, is bigger than that. And now, you are living each day and each moment in a place that is 'beyond' that event. My best to you.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
08:35:55
Comments

TO THE INSENSITIVE KNUCKLE-HEAD WHO WROTE THIS: -------- "HELLO TO EVERYONE: .....why is there the same blow hards and not anything new? Where is the mole? We something fresh and intelligent. where are those who are doing something? WHERE ARE YOU? NOTHING WORTH ANYTHING IS BEING STATED TO MAKE CHANGES. mole we need you. Mole, you spoke of reformation, change, and strife to make things better. so far this once and very informative site has gone dry with babble that will only make WTS LAUGH AT US. Has the well gone dry now that THE many have forgotten the NBC PROGRAM?.......brother from tahoe park congregation in Sacramento." --------- This site is for HURTING SOULS, Mr./Ms. INSENSITIVE. And what, prey tell, are YOU DOING ABOUT ANYTHING? What INTELLIGENCE & FRESHNESS are YOU bringing to the Guestbook? Read the posts/updates from SILENT LAMBS. Go see the Wizard of Oz and GET A HEART & a BRAIN while you're at it. -- SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
08:48:26
Comments

Brother from Tahoe Park: This site is not just about reform of the WTS. This place is for the silentlambs to use this site anyway they want to. *************** Some people are having trouble just getting through one moment at a time. New stories are coming in everyday,- everyday. This is a place for the lambs to SCREAM with outrage. This is a place of ENCOURAGEMENT to speak out. The main theme also is to let people who thought THEY WERE THE ONLY ONES, to find out they were not. This is the beginning of SANITY.**********Without sanity one can do nothing.*******Your word "blowhard" is rude and insensitive to the needs of the silentlambs. NO ONE CARES WHAT THE WTS THINKS ABOUT THIS SITE. IT IS NOT HERE TO IMPRESS THEM!!******why do you want to intimidate people here??????????????? I personally don't want one silent lamb to be "bullied" with intimidation, ESPECIALLY FROM A BROTHER, the lambs have had enough of that.*******cLAUDINE

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
09:03:04
Comments

Age 33 wrote: "Thanks, SLC! Just to make it clear, my molester was NOT a witness. My mom said that since he wasn't a witness, I should forget about it and shouldn't mind about the WTS's policy. I think not.." ----- Hi Age 00! ;) My molester/rapist was not a JW either, but since I was a JW myself, I still feel DEEPLY ATTACHED TO THIS CAUSE. Jehovah can use us too, if we let Him. If I may take a guess: Your Mom wants YOU to forget about it SO SHE CAN FORGET ABOUT IT. (It's my guess some Moms don't want to think about it 'cuz it makes them feel too guilty/responsible, etc.). I'm with you, and say, "I THINK NOT, Mom!" -- Sorry about picking your age as a salutation... You're still a babe in the woods, believe me! ;) -- Love, SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
09:37:36
Comments

RIGHT ON SISTER CHEERLEADER! from Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
09:47:27
Comments

Dear CE thanks so much for the encouragement I woke up from a good night of sleep i hope some how we can stay in touch if u want to my email is kingskid2004@juno.com would love to hear from you it helps to have people to talk to sometimes today i am resting and just enjoying life am finding out to God i am someone special that's a good feeling Penny

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
09:54:27
Comments

SCL hey thanks for the encouragement too and sometimes it is nice hearing we are loved especially when u haven't heard it growing up if u wanna stay in touch please feel free too take care Penny

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
10:57:20
Comments

Dear PENNY & ALL SILENTLAMBS;;;;;;; I LOVE ALL OF YOU ;;;; You are always in my prayers. I know what it is like to be silenced.When I was WRONGLY DISFELLOWSHIPPED,I did not know that I was going to be DF'd,my family was at the meeting that night, I was at work, my sister called & told me how upset she was!!!, when they made the announcement.I immediately left work, went home & called the man in charge, & asked him WHY he did this to me??? he did not have the answer. after about an hour & 15 min. he said [ I GUESS YOU HAD A BAD ATTITUDE ] So 20 yrs later, when I got myself REINSTATED I was told never ever to tell my SECRET to anyone not even other ELDERS,or I would be DF'd again BUT THEY WOULD TELL ME [ FIRST ] this time!!!!!!!!!!.So you see honey, the TRUTH will set us FREE. JEHOVAH GOD knows we are telling the truth Time enables us, to heal from our sorrow, but we will never forget,It has been a long and lonely road we travel,a terrible injustice has been committed and it will be made known.I was an ADULT and could not deal with it... I can only imagine what it would do to a CHILD. May you all have some of my strength, because all of this, has made me a very STRONG person.Fear of GOD is GOOD, FEAR OF MAN IS VERY VERY DESTRUCTIVE TO THE HEART & SOUL & VERY VERY WRONG!!!! MY LOVE TO EVERY ONE OF YOU. Searchi50@ aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
11:12:26
Comments

DEAR SLC---- Hi,it's Jesika. I thank you for your response. I am trying to do everything I can. There are things I am involved in currently that I can not disclose at this time. I will after the fact. The ones who told me my flashbacks and nightmares were a means of getting attention came from my parents. My mom in inactive and has since then retracted that statement. She now knows it was real. My father is still active (they are divorced now-he had an affair with a married sis. in the same cong. who he is now married to!!!!) To the one time user comment you made about me feeling defensive--I felt I needed to enlighten whoever had posted to me,since they obviously did not understand what this site is about. I will be in touch. Thanks again SLC Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
12:30:44
Comments

Hi there is no end to the hurt the WT caused to people and is still causing everywhere. Child molestation sexual abuse etc. is only one aspect of it all though a very tragic one. There are other hurts associated with deception false prophesying ( unfulfilled promises ) destroyed families. There is absolutely no end to the guilt of WT. I often wonder about the possibility of bringing the WT Society to Court in a type of CLASS SUITE in US and Canada. There are more than adequate number of us that are anxious to support this idea to it's realization.I personably know many just in my are that are praying for that! I also wonder if it would be appropriate to mention those elders that caused us harm by name in our communications. Many would be warned and protected by this simple act! That's what I would like to do but maybe that is illegal. Could someone comment on that please? Rmnk

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
12:33:08
Comments

This site is simply God sent. Thank you. Praised be the Lord!

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
13:57:13
Comments

Regarding the 'Why don't you do something?' comment.....go to watchtowerinformationservice.org. Click on the tab for psychological issues 'Psychological'. Read the paper on Child Custody. (It blows my mind to learn that about HALF of all child custody hearings in the country involve J.W.s').....This it a GREAT paper. WHY is the 'Author Unknown'???????? To the 'do something' person, see how bizarre things get around JWs?????

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
14:06:17
Comments

TO RMNK---- The Class Suit you referred to has been mentioned by others in earlier posts. I have been involved in talking to lawyers about my own case and others close to me. I will be in contact with a lawyer the beginning of this week, so I will ask about the Class Suit and what all it would require to do so. As far as mentioning the names of elders in your communications, I would suggest you contact a lawyer in your area to see what the pros and cons might be. It may vary from state to state, but it would be in your best interest to get all the facts before you proceed. I will post the results of my conversation with the lawyer in regards to the Class Suit. I will probably post on Wed. Thanks Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
15:57:03
Comments

Linda T- I would like to comment on what you said. I have dealt with the JW DF'd issues for a very long time. One thing I have learned is that if you are DF'd by the KH bullies; and do not plan to crawl back to those who are still crying "the sky is falling," if they act as if you are dead it is the best thing for you. It is so much worse to try to have a relationship with people or groups that will not respect personal boundaries. It is not the shunning itself that is painful, it is how JW's are forced to implement it (Even if they do not want to.). JW's work to HURT you. My personal experience is they work as a collective to do it. They know that the best way to do that is to hurt those who love you. All dictatorships do this. (By dictatorship I mean any society where individuals have no rights, no constitution, and are a the mercy of a small group of elitists.) You know, "if the JW (WTS) government ever gains true power it would be hell on earth." The way they work is so similar to most of the Islamic world. Study how they (Islamic law) treat the people in that world. Look at how they treat women, children, and anyone who does not submit mind and body to their versions of the deity. Anyway I will get off target if I say to much……..People have commented on nightmares. Have any of the dreams been about spiders? Big scary spiders after you and the ones you love…You awake and are convinced they are real and might even scream and rip the covers off your bed?….Anyone??? SLC-The "borg" (Star Trek) represent a very powerful "group society" that is seeking the perfection of sentient life (Perfection according to and meaning them exclusively.). They see "individualism" as irrelevant and have no respect of it what so ever. If any "drone" is separated from the collective it ceases to function. It even goes into withdrawal due to the severing from the "Commonality." If you have been in the hive too long and are separated you are programmed to die rather than live outside the collective. They have a central "Queen-mother" that controls all functions of the borg collective and the drones do whatever she commands without question. Any defection from within or resistance from the outside is crushed with totalitarian idealism and zeal. The greatest threat to the borg is fact that individuals can keep their individuality and work as a collective. A borg collective thinks with a uniform "one mind," individual collectives think with many minds "as one" working in unity. -Sequia//////////P.S. I hope that you all know how much I respect you all for coming here and sharing your thoughts. I did not realize how many survivors of JW mistreatment (criminal and ethical) there are out here. I know that many books have been recommended I am adding one. Steven Hassan "Releasing The Bonds." Give it to families you know of that have people in "The club." It a book that is for everyone, (As JW illnesses affect entire families and not just individuals.)

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
15:57:06
Comments

Linda T- I would like to comment on what you said. I have dealt with the JW DF'd issues for a very long time. One thing I have learned is that if you are DF'd by the KH bullies; and do not plan to crawl back to those who are still crying "the sky is falling," if they act as if you are dead it is the best thing for you. It is so much worse to try to have a relationship with people or groups that will not respect personal boundaries. It is not the shunning itself that is painful, it is how JW's are forced to implement it (Even if they do not want to.). JW's work to HURT you. My personal experience is they work as a collective to do it. They know that the best way to do that is to hurt those who love you. All dictatorships do this. (By dictatorship I mean any society where individuals have no rights, no constitution, and are a the mercy of a small group of elitists.) You know, "if the JW (WTS) government ever gains true power it would be hell on earth." The way they work is so similar to most of the Islamic world. Study how they (Islamic law) treat the people in that world. Look at how they treat women, children, and anyone who does not submit mind and body to their versions of the deity. Anyway I will get off target if I say to much……..People have commented on nightmares. Have any of the dreams been about spiders? Big scary spiders after you and the ones you love…You awake and are convinced they are real and might even scream and rip the covers off your bed?….Anyone??? SLC-The "borg" (Star Trek) represent a very powerful "group society" that is seeking the perfection of sentient life (Perfection according to and meaning them exclusively.). They see "individualism" as irrelevant and have no respect of it what so ever. If any "drone" is separated from the collective it ceases to function. It even goes into withdrawal due to the severing from the "Commonality." If you have been in the hive too long and are separated you are programmed to die rather than live outside the collective. They have a central "Queen-mother" that controls all functions of the borg collective and the drones do whatever she commands without question. Any defection from within or resistance from the outside is crushed with totalitarian idealism and zeal. The greatest threat to the borg is fact that individuals can keep their individuality and work as a collective. A borg collective thinks with a uniform "one mind," individual collectives think with many minds "as one" working in unity. -Sequia//////////P.S. I hope that you all know how much I respect you all for coming here and sharing your thoughts. I did not realize how many survivors of JW mistreatment (criminal and ethical) there are out here. I know that many books have been recommended I am adding one. Steven Hassan "Releasing The Bonds." Give it to families you know of that have people in "The club." It a book that is for everyone, (As JW illnesses affect entire families and not just individuals.)

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
20:31:55
Comments

I don't think it's fair to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with the Catholic Church. You need to remember that the Catholic Church is the result of Constantine's absorption of the last few remaining Christian bishops and pagan leaders who combined Christian and pagan beliefs, honed them to make Christians happy and the Catholic Church began to be formed. From her, the major Orthodox religions sprang forth. All of them respecting each one's "territories" but not much different from the other. These represent the great apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles. Their RECORD is that of violating Jehovah God's laws and principles and teaching false religion and traditions of men. It is my opinion that there are a number who would like to see some of the changes you are trying to effect. The world headquarters needs to become more involved with the "local" matters. Moses and Solomon handled the disputes and matters OF THE PEOPLE. Where would they have ended up in the desert if Moses didn't HANDLE, not wait on Jehovah God to resolve, these disputes? Would Solomon have gained high repute if he didn't WISELY know how to handle the dispute between the two women and one baby? There is much frustration for people who seek resolutions to matters only to find no one is willing to truly listen and make just decisions. Catholic priests are also guilty of having sex with girls and women. Ezekiel's book tells us that Jehovah's organization is going to be suffering the SIDE EFFECTS of what this old system is undergoing in these last days. All I can say is, if THESE are the SIDE EFFECTS, I would HATE to know what is REALLY going on in this old system. We are also living in times when Jehovah God is going to REVEAL EVERYTHING. No one is going to be able to hide ANYTHING. His organization and people are NOT exceptions. If we are not handling matters appropriately Jehovah God will know that we do not respect his arrangement for handling matters and we will not fare well -- at least not those who have disregarded and, thusly, shown gross disrespect for his arrangement. Remember what happened to Korah when they insisted on taking their matters to Jehovah God, himself! It's time, as an organization, we looked at ourselves for what we are -- all grown up with MILLIONS OF LIVES we are responsible for -- and we need to make changes that reflect a greater understanding of what Moses and Solomon stand before us as examples. We need to care about our people and we need to handle matters rather than expecting Jehovah to ultimately take care of everything. When HE does, he will know we DIDN'T and we will not fare well at all. Lest we want fire to rain down on us and the earth to open up and swallow us, we need to give ear to our critics -- especially those who are within our organization. However, since Jehovah God can make the one on the right to stand and the one on the left (and visa versa) to fall, it's comforting to know that HE has the discretion to not destroy all those with SINCERE HEARTS who WANT to do what is right and, at times, are thwarted by those who misrepresent, either willfully or inadvertently, his worship and instructions for HANDLING difficulties and problems among us. I only ask that YOU do not forget what your ORIGINAL MISSION was and you keep working to the end of agreeable changes from headquarters. Remember, you're dealing with PEOPLE. Jehovah God is not a "people" -- HE does not condone wrongdoing from anyone, ESPECIALLY not HIS OWN ORGANIZATION. If they don't listen, stay in the TRUTH but don't stand too close to those who don't listen and make appropriate changes.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
20:33:41
Comments

I don't think it's fair to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with the Catholic Church. You need to remember that the Catholic Church is the result of Constantine's absorption of the last few remaining Christian bishops and pagan leaders who combined Christian and pagan beliefs, honed them to make Christians happy and the Catholic Church began to be formed. From her, the major Orthodox religions sprang forth. All of them respecting each one's "territories" but not much different from the other. These represent the great apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles. Their RECORD is that of violating Jehovah God's laws and principles and teaching false religion and traditions of men. Also, their atrocities over CENTURIES is a matter of HISTORICAL RECORD. It is my opinion that there are a number who would like to see some of the changes you are trying to effect. The world headquarters needs to become more involved with the "local" matters. Moses and Solomon handled the disputes and matters OF THE PEOPLE. Where would they have ended up in the desert if Moses didn't HANDLE, not wait on Jehovah God to resolve, these disputes? Would Solomon have gained high repute if he didn't WISELY know how to handle the dispute between the two women and one baby? There is much frustration for people who seek resolutions to matters only to find no one is willing to truly listen and make just decisions. Catholic priests are also guilty of having sex with girls and women. Ezekiel's book tells us that Jehovah's organization is going to be suffering the SIDE EFFECTS of what this old system is undergoing in these last days. All I can say is, if THESE are the SIDE EFFECTS, I would HATE to know what is REALLY going on in this old system. We are also living in times when Jehovah God is going to REVEAL EVERYTHING. No one is going to be able to hide ANYTHING. His organization and people are NOT exceptions. If we are not handling matters appropriately Jehovah God will know that we do not respect his arrangement for handling matters and we will not fare well -- at least not those who have disregarded and, thusly, shown gross disrespect for his arrangement. Remember what happened to Korah when they insisted on taking their matters to Jehovah God, himself! It's time, as an organization, we looked at ourselves for what we are -- all grown up with MILLIONS OF LIVES we are responsible for -- and we need to make changes that reflect a greater understanding of what Moses and Solomon stand before us as examples. We need to care about our people and we need to handle matters rather than expecting Jehovah to ultimately take care of everything. When HE does, he will know we DIDN'T and we will not fare well at all. Lest we want fire to rain down on us and the earth to open up and swallow us, we need to give ear to our critics -- especially those who are within our organization. However, since Jehovah God can make the one on the right to stand and the one on the left (and visa versa) to fall, it's comforting to know that HE has the discretion to not destroy all those with SINCERE HEARTS who WANT to do what is right and, at times, are thwarted by those who misrepresent, either willfully or inadvertently, his worship and instructions for HANDLING difficulties and problems among us. I only ask that YOU do not forget what your ORIGINAL MISSION was and you keep working to the end of agreeable changes from headquarters. Remember, you're dealing with PEOPLE. Jehovah God is not a "people" -- HE does not condone wrongdoing from anyone, ESPECIALLY not HIS OWN ORGANIZATION. If they don't listen, stay in the TRUTH but don't stand too close to those who don't listen and make appropriate changes.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
20:45:48
Comments

I don't think it's fair to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with the Catholic Church. We need to remember that the Catholic Church is the result of Constantine's absorption of the last few remaining Christian bishops and pagan leaders who combined Christian and pagan beliefs, honed them to make Christians happy and the Catholic Church began to be formed. From her, the major Orthodox religions sprang forth. All of them respecting each one's "territories" but not much different from the other. These represent the great apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles. Their RECORD is that of violating Jehovah God's laws and principles and teaching false religion and traditions of men. Also, their atrocities over CENTURIES is a matter of HISTORICAL RECORD. Catholic priests are also guilty of having sex with girls and women. It is my opinion that there are a number who would like to see some of the changes you are trying to effect. The world headquarters needs to become more involved with the "local" matters. Moses and Solomon handled the disputes and matters OF THE PEOPLE. Where would they have ended up in the desert if Moses didn't HANDLE, not wait on Jehovah God to resolve, these disputes? Also, because there were so many matters of the people that needed handling, Jehovah God gave Moses, IMMEDIATELY, 70 older men to HELP HIM. This tells ME that Jehovah God EXPECTS AND SUPPORTS helping his people resolve issues effectively by those taking the lead among his people. Would Solomon have gained high repute if he didn't WISELY know how to handle the dispute between the two women and one baby? There is frustration for people who seek resolutions to matters only to find no one is willing to listen and truly make just suggestions for resolutions or decisions in personal matters. That translates to having no one to offer genuine guidance. It seems sort of CHICKEN, don't you think? Ezekiel's book tells us that Jehovah's organization is going to be suffering the SIDE EFFECTS of what this old system is undergoing in these last days. All I can say is, if THESE are the SIDE EFFECTS, I would HATE to know what is REALLY going on in this old system. We are also living in times when Jehovah God is going to REVEAL EVERYTHING. No one is going to be able to hide ANYTHING. His organization and people are NOT exceptions. If we are not handling matters appropriately Jehovah God will know that we do not respect his arrangement for handling matters and we will not fare well -- at least not those who have disregarded and, thusly, shown gross disrespect for his arrangement. Remember what happened to Korah when they insisted on taking their matters to Jehovah God, himself! It's time, as an organization, we looked at ourselves for what we are -- all grown up with MILLIONS OF LIVES we are responsible for -- and we need to make changes that reflect a greater understanding of what Moses and Solomon stand before us as examples. We can't leave our people "in the lurch". We need to care about our people and we need to handle matters rather than expecting Jehovah to ultimately take care of everything. When HE does, he will know we DIDN'T and we will not fare well at all. Lest we want fire to rain down on us and the earth to open up and swallow us, we need to give ear to our critics -- especially those who are within our organization. We need to NAKEDLY EXAMINE why some are not with us anymore. Rather then labeling them as apostates or something else that is derogatory, we need to LISTEN. However, since Jehovah God can make the one on the right to stand and the one on the left (and visa versa) to fall, it's comforting to know that HE has the discretion to not destroy all those with SINCERE HEARTS who WANT to do what is right and, at times, seem to be thwarted by those who misrepresent, either inadvertently or willfully, his worship and instructions for HANDLING difficulties and problems among us. It's not a shame or sin to have problems among us. The shame or sin is NOT HANDLING THEM PROPERLY AND TIMELY. I only ask that YOU do not forget what your ORIGINAL MISSION was and you keep working to the end of agreeable changes from headquarters. Remember, you're dealing with PEOPLE. Jehovah God is not a "people" -- HE does not condone wrongdoing from anyone, ESPECIALLY not HIS OWN ORGANIZATION. If they don't listen, stay in the TRUTH but don't stand too close to those who don't listen and make appropriate changes -- you don't want to get any of that fire rain on you or to fall into the pit of the earth tearing open.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
20:46:20
Comments

I don't think it's fair to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with the Catholic Church. We need to remember that the Catholic Church is the result of Constantine's absorption of the last few remaining Christian bishops and pagan leaders who combined Christian and pagan beliefs, honed them to make Christians happy and the Catholic Church began to be formed. From her, the major Orthodox religions sprang forth. All of them respecting each one's "territories" but not much different from the other. These represent the great apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles. Their RECORD is that of violating Jehovah God's laws and principles and teaching false religion and traditions of men. Also, their atrocities over CENTURIES is a matter of HISTORICAL RECORD. Catholic priests are also guilty of having sex with girls and women. It is my opinion that there are a number who would like to see some of the changes you are trying to effect. The world headquarters needs to become more involved with the "local" matters. Moses and Solomon handled the disputes and matters OF THE PEOPLE. Where would they have ended up in the desert if Moses didn't HANDLE, not wait on Jehovah God to resolve, these disputes? Also, because there were so many matters of the people that needed handling, Jehovah God gave Moses, IMMEDIATELY, 70 older men to HELP HIM. This tells ME that Jehovah God EXPECTS AND SUPPORTS helping his people resolve issues effectively by those taking the lead among his people. Would Solomon have gained high repute if he didn't WISELY know how to handle the dispute between the two women and one baby? There is frustration for people who seek resolutions to matters only to find no one is willing to listen and truly make just suggestions for resolutions or decisions in personal matters. That translates to having no one to offer genuine guidance. It seems sort of CHICKEN, don't you think? Ezekiel's book tells us that Jehovah's organization is going to be suffering the SIDE EFFECTS of what this old system is undergoing in these last days. All I can say is, if THESE are the SIDE EFFECTS, I would HATE to know what is REALLY going on in this old system. We are also living in times when Jehovah God is going to REVEAL EVERYTHING. No one is going to be able to hide ANYTHING. His organization and people are NOT exceptions. If we are not handling matters appropriately Jehovah God will know that we do not respect his arrangement for handling matters and we will not fare well -- at least not those who have disregarded and, thusly, shown gross disrespect for his arrangement. Remember what happened to Korah when they insisted on taking their matters to Jehovah God, himself! It's time, as an organization, we looked at ourselves for what we are -- all grown up with MILLIONS OF LIVES we are responsible for -- and we need to make changes that reflect a greater understanding of what Moses and Solomon stand before us as examples. We can't leave our people "in the lurch". We need to care about our people and we need to handle matters rather than expecting Jehovah to ultimately take care of everything. When HE does, he will know we DIDN'T and we will not fare well at all. Lest we want fire to rain down on us and the earth to open up and swallow us, we need to give ear to our critics -- especially those who are within our organization. We need to NAKEDLY EXAMINE why some are not with us anymore. Rather then labeling them as apostates or something else that is derogatory, we need to LISTEN. However, since Jehovah God can make the one on the right to stand and the one on the left (and visa versa) to fall, it's comforting to know that HE has the discretion to not destroy all those with SINCERE HEARTS who WANT to do what is right and, at times, seem to be thwarted by those who misrepresent, either inadvertently or willfully, his worship and instructions for HANDLING difficulties and problems among us. It's not a shame or sin to have problems among us. The shame or sin is NOT HANDLING THEM PROPERLY AND TIMELY. I only ask that YOU do not forget what your ORIGINAL MISSION was and you keep working to the end of agreeable changes from headquarters. Remember, you're dealing with PEOPLE. Jehovah God is not a "people" -- HE does not condone wrongdoing from anyone, ESPECIALLY not HIS OWN ORGANIZATION. If they don't listen, stay in the TRUTH but don't stand too close to those who don't listen and make appropriate changes -- you don't want to get any of that fire rain on you or to fall into the pit of the earth tearing open.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
20:47:08
Comments

I don't think it's fair to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with the Catholic Church. We need to remember that the Catholic Church is the result of Constantine's absorption of the last few remaining Christian bishops and pagan leaders who combined Christian and pagan beliefs, honed them to make Christians happy and the Catholic Church began to be formed. From her, the major Orthodox religions sprang forth. All of them respecting each one's "territories" but not much different from the other. These represent the great apostasy that took place after the death of the apostles. Their RECORD is that of violating Jehovah God's laws and principles and teaching false religion and traditions of men. Also, their atrocities over CENTURIES is a matter of HISTORICAL RECORD. Catholic priests are also guilty of having sex with girls and women. It is my opinion that there are a number who would like to see some of the changes you are trying to effect. The world headquarters needs to become more involved with the "local" matters. Moses and Solomon handled the disputes and matters OF THE PEOPLE. Where would they have ended up in the desert if Moses didn't HANDLE, not wait on Jehovah God to resolve, these disputes? Also, because there were so many matters of the people that needed handling, Jehovah God gave Moses, IMMEDIATELY, 70 older men to HELP HIM. This tells ME that Jehovah God EXPECTS AND SUPPORTS helping his people resolve issues effectively by those taking the lead among his people. Would Solomon have gained high repute if he didn't WISELY know how to handle the dispute between the two women and one baby? There is frustration for people who seek resolutions to matters only to find no one is willing to listen and truly make just suggestions for resolutions or decisions in personal matters. That translates to having no one to offer genuine guidance. It seems sort of CHICKEN, don't you think? Ezekiel's book tells us that Jehovah's organization is going to be suffering the SIDE EFFECTS of what this old system is undergoing in these last days. All I can say is, if THESE are the SIDE EFFECTS, I would HATE to know what is REALLY going on in this old system. We are also living in times when Jehovah God is going to REVEAL EVERYTHING. No one is going to be able to hide ANYTHING. His organization and people are NOT exceptions. If we are not handling matters appropriately Jehovah God will know that we do not respect his arrangement for handling matters and we will not fare well -- at least not those who have disregarded and, thusly, shown gross disrespect for his arrangement. Remember what happened to Korah when they insisted on taking their matters to Jehovah God, himself! It's time, as an organization, we looked at ourselves for what we are -- all grown up with MILLIONS OF LIVES we are responsible for -- and we need to make changes that reflect a greater understanding of what Moses and Solomon stand before us as examples. We can't leave our people "in the lurch". We need to care about our people and we need to handle matters rather than expecting Jehovah to ultimately take care of everything. When HE does, he will know we DIDN'T and we will not fare well at all. Lest we want fire to rain down on us and the earth to open up and swallow us, we need to give ear to our critics -- especially those who are within our organization. We need to NAKEDLY EXAMINE why some are not with us anymore. Rather then labeling them as apostates or something else that is derogatory, we need to LISTEN. However, since Jehovah God can make the one on the right to stand and the one on the left (and visa versa) to fall, it's comforting to know that HE has the discretion to not destroy all those with SINCERE HEARTS who WANT to do what is right and, at times, seem to be thwarted by those who misrepresent, either inadvertently or willfully, his worship and instructions for HANDLING difficulties and problems among us. It's not a shame or sin to have problems among us. The shame or sin is NOT HANDLING THEM PROPERLY AND TIMELY. I only ask that YOU do not forget what your ORIGINAL MISSION was and you keep working to the end of agreeable changes from headquarters. Remember, you're dealing with PEOPLE. Jehovah God is not a "people" -- HE does not condone wrongdoing from anyone, ESPECIALLY not HIS OWN ORGANIZATION. If they don't listen, stay in the TRUTH but don't stand too close to those who don't listen and make appropriate changes -- you don't want to get any of that fire rain on you or to fall into the pit of the earth tearing open.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jun 2002
Time:
21:59:24
Comments

Yawn.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
05:46:29
Comments

"" I don't think it's fair to compare Jehovah's Witnesses with the Catholic Church"' No, you are right, as Catholics are not brainwashed and don't think they are the best people on earth!!!

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
05:55:08
Comments

Indeed, YAWN! Wonder from which Awake the text is taken!

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
06:21:18
Comments

FYI - a small book that should be included in everyone's 'Farewell WTS' gift basket:--------"Stop Being Manipulated" by George H. Green, PhD and Carolyn Cotter, MBA.------Tell me, am I the only one who finds themselves often manipulated and intimidated in life?------As I see it, I was trained by the best to the fine art of victimization. Anyone else?

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
07:15:20
Comments

April 20, 10:29 "....who have studied the history of the Watchtower Society, whose founder and first president was a child molester." Where is this information available????

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
09:05:10
Comments

To Whoever wrote the above comments to me, thank you. In one of my earlier posts I mentioned that I have found the loss of family, friends, etc within the witness organization to not be that much of a loss. I've been reading Ray Franz 4th edition of Crisis of Conscience and still finding myself very moved by the details of the goings on within the headquarters/governing body. Having been raised as a witness, we are taught that love is conditional, whereas the rest of the world says love is supposed to be unconditional. That has been a real tough thing for me personally to overcome. When I hear on occasion through one of my children that my own parents Love me....I just doesn't cause me to feel anything at all. I guess I'd be honest to say that I've become numb in a sense to those words coming from my "family". Those words just don't mean anything to me anymore. The purpose and goal of disfellowshipping, and the subsequent result of no contact with family is of course to "move people to repentance" and cause the disfellowshipped ones to return to the organization. Well, that simply isn't going to happen, at least not for me. I will never be able to remove from my memory what happened with the Malawi brothers vs the Mexican brothers. I will never be able to get that out of my mind, amongst other things. I have never felt more free than I do now, being out of that robot organization. I have posted this before, but I got engaged last weekend but I will not be sending invitations to any one in my "family", nor will I send announcements of our marriage to them either. They choose to treat me as though I'm dead, so I don't feel any need to inform them of the pure joy and happiness I've been experiencing. I have many friends that I would say qualify as my family now, so good riddance to the Thoman Empire. Linda Thoman Linthoman0705@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
09:47:30
Comments

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
09:48:26
Comments

Dear Linda, congratulations on our engagement! You go girl!! Take care, Europe

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
10:25:20
Comments

Well, I got my American Flag in protest to the UN deception and especially for the Malawi’s! I am not “worshipping” the flag; I am not pledging my allegiance to anyone but God. I think I can TRUST MYSELF enough to put the flag out and still know that Jehovah is God, and His kingdom is real. I think I can TRUST GOD enough to know he would not kill me merely because I put a flag in my yard. It is symbolic of the freedom to make a HARMLESS choice of raising the flag in reply to the HARMFUL decisions the WTS made/and continues to make. It also symbolizes the court of laws in this country to bring to justice (sometimes) those who commit a crime, which is a RIGHT that the WTS has tried to take away from it’s “citizens.” ***********I find it terrible that I have to explain, justify even to myself about putting a flag in my yard!*************but I did it anyway!==========C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
10:43:00
Comments

The information I posted is found in the BIBLE. Try reading it sometime. Even if some of the information is from the AWAKE!, it would STILL quote from the BIBLE. However, it's not from the AWAKE!. These are MY words based on READING THE BIBLE every day, stumbling through the parts I don't understand or find difficult to read but I keep reading and understanding does happen. Lots of people have pain from life's experiences. Most likely ALL people have pain from traveling this road -- living. The BIBLE is NOT impervious to our pain and it teaches us how to live so as to mitigate our pain. It's not the pain that is the challenge -- it's how we handle it. We can use it to effect POSITIVE CHANGES or we can let it eat us up so that we become worse than our offender or offenders. You spend your life being hurt by them and, honestly, they don't spend a nano-second being "bothered" by you. When that happens, THEY WON. No matter what someone or others have done to us, there comes a time when it is no longer "them" -- it becomes us. For every single person, there's a certain time to be hurt and mourn over the thing or things that have been done to us when we were innocent and trusting, however, after that time, we need to put all those things behind us (forget? no, we don't forget), pick ourselves up and move on. We, ultimately, are responsible for our own lives. We can't do ANYTHING about what has happened in the past to us. We can, though, do something about what WILL happen to us from now on. It's the "world's" saying that "today is the first day of the rest of my life". It's OUR CHOICE as to where we'll go from there -- our painful place. What do YOU choose?

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
10:46:55
Comments

Why don't Catholics have a web site where they can truly express their real feelings? Can't take the "heat" from those who would be so nasty to you for telling it the way they really feel?

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
10:53:11
Comments

HI: Is everyone aware of the new website http://www.meetup.com/ Go to exjws This is a must see !!!!!!It's a GOD SEND for me. Hope you enjoy it!!!!! later***** Searchin50

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
16:11:18
Comments

Re: Catholics have just finished - and are still - dialoguing with ANY Catholics who are interested in being heard on the subject. They have held in person meetings all over the country where anyone can speak and have input. They have taken countless submissions from interested parties, on paper, in person and via the internet......Further, they are talking about any future decisions about any future wrong doings being assessed by a panel comprised of lay people who include abuse survivors. Any questions? In addition to all of this, their every move is in the daily newspapers across the country and beyond to which you have easy access. Be careful not to assume things you know nothing about. It's a learned Witness trait and it does not serve ANYONE's purpose, including your own.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
17:40:24
Comments

To Europe....LOL, you sorta forgot the letter "Y" when you wrote about "our" engagement. It should have said Congratulations on Your engagement. LOL Linda Thoman (I am not engaged to Europe...)

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
17:58:50
Comments

Enter the Daily Text for Sunday, June 30 Those who are a strong people will glorify you; the town of the tyrannical nations, they will fear you.-- Isa. 25:3. Saturday, June 29 | Monday, July 1 Was Babylon the Great ever forced to acknowledge Jehovah's powerful works? Yes. During the first world war, Jehovah's anointed servants preached under tribulation. In 1918 they went into spiritual captivity when leading brothers among God's people were imprisoned. The organized preaching work virtually ceased. Then, in 1919, Jehovah restored them and reinvigorated them with his spirit, whereupon they set out to fulfill the commission to preach the good news in all the inhabited earth. (Mark 13:10) All of this was prophesied in the book of Revelation, as was the effect upon their opponents. These "became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven." (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-13) Not that they all were converted, but they were forced to recognize the powerful work of Jehovah on this occasion, just as Isaiah had foretold. w 3/1/01 16, 17 Excerpt from "Examining the Scriptures Daily 2002". © 2001 WatchTower Bible & Tract Society of PA

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
17:59:28
Comments

http://jwzone.org Enter the Daily Text for Sunday, June 30 Those who are a strong people will glorify you; the town of the tyrannical nations, they will fear you.-- Isa. 25:3. Saturday, June 29 | Monday, July 1 Was Babylon the Great ever forced to acknowledge Jehovah's powerful works? Yes. During the first world war, Jehovah's anointed servants preached under tribulation. In 1918 they went into spiritual captivity when leading brothers among God's people were imprisoned. The organized preaching work virtually ceased. Then, in 1919, Jehovah restored them and reinvigorated them with his spirit, whereupon they set out to fulfill the commission to preach the good news in all the inhabited earth. (Mark 13:10) All of this was prophesied in the book of Revelation, as was the effect upon their opponents. These "became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven." (Rev. 11:3, 7, 11-13) Not that they all were converted, but they were forced to recognize the powerful work of Jehovah on this occasion, just as Isaiah had foretold. w 3/1/01 16, 17 Excerpt from "Examining the Scriptures Daily 2002". © 2001 WatchTower Bible & Tract Society of PA

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:19:18
Comments

http://www.greaterthings.com/Topical/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre/index.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:45:39
Comments

http://www.katiet.com/index.htm You could each write a book about your experiences.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:47:49
Comments

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:50:06
Comments

http://www.afn.org/~monica/index.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:52:23
Comments

I really do not care about the daily text that the second last poster put on. Too many things that the Watchtower has printed in the past have been fluff that didn't happen. Why would one think that what they print today is any different? 1975

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:53:05
Comments

WHO keeps posting the daily text???????? I personally could care less what the daily text has to say-- it makes me sick to my stomach just looking at it!!!!!! If I needed to have some sort of daily scripture to start my day--I will find one on my own!!!!! I definitely don't want the society telling me how and why it applies, or any history of the JW's-- there is plenty of info out there, and I don't want the info from them--they LIE!!!! Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
18:58:15
Comments

Right on Jesika 1975

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:05:15
Comments

http://www.gospelcom.net/mlm/Ped.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:07:03
Comments

TO 1975--- I am glad I am not the only one who feels that way. Good grief, if I wanted to be preached to I would go to the KH!!!!!!!! You had posted while I was writing mine. I thought it was funny that you posted right before I had!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx (by the way-1975 was the year I was born)

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:17:22
Comments

Thanks Jesika Yes I think that it is funny also, that we were both writing the same thing at the same time. You from the deep south and me from the frozen north(Canada). Just goes to show you that the whole North America is getting tired of the same old record that plays the same old tune. Take care!

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:18:50
Comments

http://www.hotstreak.net/anti/news/0301/nfn010301a.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:23:42
Comments

http://www.primaryerror.net/1killer.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:24:35
Comments

http://www.gospelassemblyfree.com/gac/yoke.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:25:33
Comments

http://home.hetnet.nl/~ex-baba/engels/articles/profile.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:28:10
Comments

http://www.thelinkup.com/stats.html

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
19:43:20
Comments

Lighten up! http://sblomberg.com/cbs/ Church humor.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
20:01:54
Comments

The smallest deed is greater than the grandest intention. http://sblomberg.com/cbs/PAGE10.HTM Lighten up!

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
20:30:15
Comments

On April 20th, at 10:29 someone posted the following: "For those of us who have studied the history of the Watchtower Society - whose founder and first president [Charles Taze Russell?] was a child molester, the strictures of Watchtower policies, written and [?], which serve to shield the Organization (and hence often the perpetrator) at the expense of the victim are not seen as arising from sheer chance or incompetence. There is evidence of design. [Signed,] Focus - (One who knows the beast) class"----------------------------------------------------------------------WHO WROTE THIS? IS THIS TRUE? IF THIS IS TRUE, IT IS POWERFULLY RELEVANT BUT I CAN'T FIND IT ELSEWHERE. IS THERE REALLY EVIDENCE SOMEWHERE THAT C.T. RUSSELL WAS A PEDOPHILE??????????

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
20:31:00
Comments

On April 20th, at 10:29 someone posted the following: "For those of us who have studied the history of the Watchtower Society - whose founder and first president [Charles Taze Russell?] was a child molester, the strictures of Watchtower policies, written and [?], which serve to shield the Organization (and hence often the perpetrator) at the expense of the victim are not seen as arising from sheer chance or incompetence. There is evidence of design. [Signed,] Focus - (One who knows the beast) class"----------------------------------------------------------------------WHO WROTE THIS? IS THIS TRUE? IF THIS IS TRUE, IT IS POWERFULLY RELEVANT BUT I CAN'T FIND IT ELSEWHERE. IS THERE REALLY EVIDENCE SOMEWHERE THAT C.T. RUSSELL WAS A PEDOPHILE??????????

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
20:49:30
Comments

Re: Catholics ------- The question was, why don't Catholics (added: or any other religion for that matter) have WEB SITES where their people can just speak out (meaning the way people speak out here)? This is in response to some of the very hostile remarks that are made here about JWs and how someone, if they see them, will follow them around and tell everyone how horrible they are -- that JWs are their own worst enemies. So, it naturally follows to ask, then, why don't Catholics (and I'm adding any other religion -- not wanting to single out only Catholics) have a WEB SITE (not controlled forums such as formal meetings, radio or TV telecasts, newspapers, magazines, etc.) where THEIR OWN PEOPLE can speak out anonymously and FREELY about how THEY feel with regard to their own experiences within their own organization -- such as what exists at THIS web site. The issue is, is it because they can't take the "heat" of someone writing such dastardly things at them because they're honest enough to express their true feelings? It was, somewhat, sarcasm because the threatening and hateful tone of the posting proved EXACTLY WHY people prefer to NOT talk freely -- because of the lack of compassion, understanding and hateful talk that threatens. Here you have people TALKING HONESTLY and FREE TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT and there's ALWAYS someone who is going to battle such honesty. Simply because these are the expressions of SOME people -- even though credible -- they don't necessarily mean it is the way everyone feels, has experienced, or wants things handled. However, such a reaction is an EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of why PEOPLE KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT -- no matter WHAT religion they are. Fear of reprisals or attacks. I, personally, am deeply sorry for ANY pain and suffering ANY person has experienced within their religious organization. However, that does NOT mean that EVERYONE is a hypocrite, predator or victim within their organization. To go around threatening SLANDER to ANYONE YOU SEE, whether in your neighborhood or elsewhere, is the INSANITY THAT KEEPS PEOPLE FROM COMING FORWARD. This poster just proved a point that could not be ignored. Instead of ATTACKING, get a web site and let your own people freely talk. I don't doubt AT ALL that you're going to find people of EVERY SORT having similar experiences. You want to punish anyone in the entire group for what a few have done. Isn't that like the Taliban? ------- LBJ

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
21:55:52
Comments

" Why Don't Catholics Have Websites?" They do, but the need to have an anonymous website where one can 'finally open up' and 'speak freely' is not so dire as it is within the WTS because Catholics ALWAYS have freedom of speech.-----We speak openly amongst ourselves, amongst our friends, family, parish, to our priests and others. There is no cover-up (not speaking of any cover-up initiated by the abuser, which is VERY common everywhere). There is no denial (not that everyone is necessarily of one mind, initially. It's a difficult subject). But people are FREE to talk. It's one of the GREAT things about being an American. It's only the WTS which tries to inhibit that freedom by manipulation, intimidation and other means. I hope this answers your question. The lack of a 'silentlambs' website for Catholics (and perhaps others???) is because the need is not the same as it is here. We're not searching futilely for someone to listen, validate, and believe us. And we believe you, too.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
23:17:16
Comments

Dear All, My heart goes out to the victims of abuse and I commend you for speaking up. Mr. Bowen, thank you for taking such an important stance. I pray God gives you strength and perseverance to help more silentlambs. It is sad some witnesses feel this site is bashing them. Can they not see people are hurting and this website gives them the opportunity to speak without feeling ashamed or under attack? God is using Mr. Bowen I believe. Please pray for healing for these victims. Stop ignoring their cries and viewing this as an attack on your religion. Thank you.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
23:20:17
Comments

Dear Friends, I have taken the past week and have read all the entries in this Guestbook as of Friday evening. It saddens me greatly to hear of your stories of the abuse. Although I have never been a JW myself, I am married to an active JW. His reactions have been typically the same responses I have seen here, ones of denial and trying to discredit the people and Dateline. I was abused physically, mentally and emotionally as a child and once had a cousin "attempt" to sexually abuse me, I know the fear I had at that one occurrence, I could not imagine living a life full of that fear. You are all in my prayers. Mr. Bowen: You are an exceptional man, with a high moral standard and should be commended for your efforts with this site and with Dateline and the exposing of such a heinous crime as this against our children. You are man to be admired and respected, not looked down on and accused of "causing divisions", this is an outrage what they are trying to do with you. I have followed your story since I first saw a report on this issue over a year ago on CNN. I have waited anxiously for Dateline to air, and watched continuously your website for updates. I was upset at the WTBTS when they stopped, but kind of expected it too. Mr. Bowen, you are doing the right thing, and do not let anyone ever tell you that you are not. I hope to hear updates on Erika and the others soon, would even like to correspond with her if she would like to, you may forward my email address to her if you wish. To the people who have come on this site and used all sorts of profanity and the likes, although we may not know who you are, whether you are JWs or not, there is ONE that does know for certain, and there is no hiding ANYTHING from Him. One day we all have to give an account for our actions. Even you. With Christian Love and respect, Barbara Naftis bnaftis@cs.com

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jun 2002
Time:
23:20:59
Comments

Please forgive the typos, it is very late here and I am tired. Thanks, Barbara

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