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June 2002 Guestbook

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Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
00:00:49
Comments

Hi again,

To the person who wrote from Canada, Edmonton Alberta. There are Pedophiles in the congregations in Canada. I am an active Witness and so are my parents. The policies of the Watchtower allow pedophiles to operate with relative freedom.

The victim is blamed and expected to act. The victim is usually a CHILD and the pedophile is usually an ADULT. Now isn't this a little unfair. How can a child stand up to the cunning, manipulation, threatening, and the sheer size of a adult predator...It is a little out of the child's league don't you think!! Some people are so unreasonable. The weaker are always dominated by the stronger especially in the case of pedophila.

Hitler was responsible for what happened in Germany but one must always remember he could not have done all those terrible things if he didn't have people who carried out his wicked orders to the death of 6 million Jews and countless others.

After the war some on trial used the excuse they were following orders. Can the elders use this excuse that they were just following orders? These men who followed orders of Hitler still went to prison and were found guilty.

Unbelievable as it was, there were people who lived near the concentration camps, working their farms, who had no idea what was happening until the Americans came in and the war was over. So today there will be people, who will not have a clue what is going on under their very noses...

Just because someone claims nothing is going on doesn't make it so. Old expression "5% make it happen; 5% watch it happen; and 80% ask what happened."

A persons denial may make them feel safe. It just like the disease AIDS. At first the person does not know they have it. They feel fine. They look fine but this doesn't change how deadly the disease is.

So to with some adults, they may look around and think everything is fine in the congregations but think again. The Pedophile usually identifies himself only to his victims(the children)who are their sexual preference, not the adult. Those who have trouble believing this should think you can't tell someone has AIDS just by looking at them so to with the Pedophile...

Denial will not keep the children safe but facing reality will...DJB

P.S. For the record Dateline was good for our family as it helped the doubting Thomas's to realize what I have been saying for past 6 years is exactly what is happening...

P.S.S About that "Gay" bit. Those who have no answer will often resort to name calling, making accusations to deflect the attention off themselves. They want, obviously, to redirect the attention off the REAL issues. THAT IS THE PROTECTION OF THE CHILDREN.

Bill Bowen keep up the good work and efforts with this web site. Barbara Anderson your (research)evidence shows how deep the problem runs in the organization. Thank for your courage in coming forward and speaking up. Both your efforts to expose this to the public/brothers is so appreciated. Thanks with all my heart!!! Jehovah will not forget your work and the love you showed.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
00:07:05
Comments

lollylou2@excite.com wrote: Date: 23 May 2002 Time: 13:21:59 Comments - I just wanted to commend all of you for your brave stand against child abuse. Many years ago I remember a brother sitting in the balcony of an Assembly Hall with a cover over him and two of his granddaughters. He was molesting them under the covers. Shock and disbelief spread quickly. The outcome was we were counseled for gossiping. EVERYONE was told to treat this molester the same as before and if anything else was said we could be publicly reproved or disfellowshipped for slandering this brother. I haven't talked about this for over twenty years. I never let my children be around him, but I have to admit I didn't dare sympathize with the girls for fear of reproof from the elders. This is a crime. Thank you again for your bravery! I am sure you will be blessed for all your efforts in behalf of our children! lollylou2@excite.com

AD responds 23 May 2002: That is exactly what I would do - keep my children away from him! But it is not possible - not only does he get frequent overnight visitations with his children, but I've learned now that some other children in the congregation and some of those that are studies attending meetings have spent time over there when my children are there and even shared in overnights with him too! And I am constantly reminded NOT to speak out about what he has done to us!

To Lollylou and AD ....

"Only persons truly responsible for injustice prefer silence and seek to impose it"

Our silence has only compounded the problem over the years. We gave up our conscience to the dictates of men rather than listen to the dictates of Almighty God.

John 3 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Matthew 10 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Luke 12 1 ....... Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. 3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

If all of you who are keeping silent in your congregation were to speak out all at the same time, what can they do? I guarantee that almost the whole congregation is affected and all want to speak out. Only Satan and his lackeys loves this silence!

SPEAK OUT! BE SILENT NO MORE!!!!!!!

Jan.Groenveld@uq.net.au THE MOST DANGEROUS LIE IS THAT WHICH MOST CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE TRUTH http://www.caic.org.au

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
00:07:25
Comments

lollylou2@excite.com wrote: Date: 23 May 2002 Time: 13:21:59 Comments - I just wanted to commend all of you for your brave stand against child abuse. Many years ago I remember a brother sitting in the balcony of an Assembly Hall with a cover over him and two of his granddaughters. He was molesting them under the covers. Shock and disbelief spread quickly. The outcome was we were counseled for gossiping. EVERYONE was told to treat this molester the same as before and if anything else was said we could be publicly reproved or disfellowshipped for slandering this brother. I haven't talked about this for over twenty years. I never let my children be around him, but I have to admit I didn't dare sympathize with the girls for fear of reproof from the elders. This is a crime. Thank you again for your bravery! I am sure you will be blessed for all your efforts in behalf of our children! lollylou2@excite.com

AD responds 23 May 2002: That is exactly what I would do - keep my children away from him! But it is not possible - not only does he get frequent overnight visitations with his children, but I've learned now that some other children in the congregation and some of those that are studies attending meetings have spent time over there when my children are there and even shared in overnights with him too! And I am constantly reminded NOT to speak out about what he has done to us!

To Lollylou and AD ....

"Only persons truly responsible for injustice prefer silence and seek to impose it"

Our silence has only compounded the problem over the years. We gave up our conscience to the dictates of men rather than listen to the dictates of Almighty God.

John 3 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

Matthew 10 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. 27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Luke 12 1 ....... Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. 2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. 3 Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

If all of you who are keeping silent in your congregation were to speak out all at the same time, what can they do? I guarantee that almost the whole congregation is affected and all want to speak out. Only Satan and his lackeys loves this silence!

SPEAK OUT! BE SILENT NO MORE!!!!!!!

Jan.Groenveld@uq.net.au THE MOST DANGEROUS LIE IS THAT WHICH MOST CLOSELY RESEMBLES THE TRUTH http://www.caic.org.au

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
00:20:37
Comments

What is going on here in the JW camp is "Obstruction of Justice." You could call it "Obstruction of Conscience." But to say that implies that the Witnesses active Jehovah's Witnesses have one. Anyone ever see the movie "The Stoning?" I recommend it.

You JW people want so badly to have a "Theocratic War" with the entire Human Race…All of Civilization…All of Mankind…YOU GOT IT! You shits have a war.

I listen here and it is just like everywhere else. When it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses their God is my Devil!!! Why? Look at their very words. They speak for themselves. I need to provide no other proof. I will not wait to see you attack one more victim. Next time you come to my house plan on me leaving with you. Dateline video, this sites stories, your own literature, Franz , "Releasing the Bonds," and the spirit of Christ. They are coming to. I will go door to door with you. No more will I allow you to lie and play dumb about your own "Wolfish" devil ways. I will let people make up their own minds. Just like you. I however will give them all the facts. Including the ways of a propagandist. If your material can still hold any credibility I will truly be amazed.

Anyone else with me?

The Watchtower and its dominion are dependent on shame and silence. You Witnesses created your enemy here. Your enemy is you!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
00:25:58
Comments

I am an active JW - and both a victim of abuse and a parent of abused children - our abuser was my husband and their bio. father and IS still a member of our congregation in good standing.

I'm in search of a private email group for persons with similar situations. I do not want a group where those not wanting to continue serving Jehovah will be as well. I really just want a loving, spiritually-minded, sympathetic/empathic group where victims can discuss their situations freely and find support in dealing/coping with ongoing related issues.

If you know of such a group OR If you are interested in such a group as well PLEASE CONTACT me at mymomspace@hotmail.com

Agape & Philia

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
00:55:14
Comments

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and I am currently married to a baptized-disfellowshipped - re-instated Witness. I am not baptized. We have two children. I know quite a lot of witnesses and non-witnesses. I was a little surprised by the Dateline story. However, I do feel that it is probably true. Among the witnesses there is a false sense of security, as though none of them could do any wrong. I had thought that if anything inappropriate had taken place that the witnesses would have gone to the authorities. I see that is not the case. I also believe that they are more concerned with their "image" than any particular member. If they have admitted molesters going door-to-door, what else is going on in the organization ?? What Jehovah's Witnesses governing body should have done was gotten ahead of this thing - reported the abusers - counseled the victims and prevented anything like this from ever happening again. They should not have buried the problem. People would have been extremely proud and impressed and thought much more of them had they handled the situation the way they should have. They would have brought pride and honor to Jehovah's name. Instead they brought shame and scandal. They should be ashamed of themselves. I am certain that Jehovah is disappointed with them. They said let Jehovah handle it. WELL I GUESS NOW HE IS !!!!! It seems as though he is using Bowen to get the word out so that the abuse can stop. Try not to let their attitude discourage your efforts. I am sure it is difficult for you. But your cause is just and I am certain that all decent people appreciate your efforts. Don't let the self-righteous hypocrites wear you down. Let the innocent children motivate you every day. May Jehovah God bless you for your efforts. Wishing you and your family the best. Dawn P in NJ.d

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
01:11:17
Comments

well......how do I begin,,,well I was a victim of sexual abuse by an elder in 1975.....nothing was done......I am very upset and confused....he destroyed my life and my husbands life.

Deb

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
01:36:41
Comments

Here is the poem..someone requested that was seen on Dateline (on Bills computer) "BED OF TEARS"

She sits upon a bed of tears All alone and full of fears She can not comprehend Why the boo boos do not mend So she stares upon the wall And in her childish prayer does call I want my daddy to come here to protect me from my fear But to daddy I can not call for he is the meanest of them all He whispered he loved me and said not to tell But when he touched me I wanted to yell He hurt me bad and made me cry He said he loved me, so I don't know why Can you hear me Jesus, are you awake? I don't want to bother you, but my daddy I hate Please forgive me for being bad I know I make my daddy mad He told me if I don't be good While by my bedside he stood I'm afraid he will love me no more He said be good, like the times before But Jesus it hurts when he loves me at night I want to tell Mommy, but then they will fight I want to go away to be with you But I have to know, do you hate me too?

Dedicated to my daughter Michele Sandstrom ~~~by Jean Kraus copyrighted 2001

Queens, NY --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I cannot seem to yell loud enough to be heard,

e (on Bills computer)

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
01:41:00
Comments

"" If they have admitted molesters going door-to-door, what else is going on in the organization ?? """

This: http://www.geocities.com/wts_rides_the_beast/Awake112298.htm

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
02:25:49
Comments

In response to the 'brother' who said:

"The following is a post dealing with Dateline and Pedophilia in the organization made by a brother on a JW discussion board. I thought it was very good: The safety of the children should come first. Elders are instructed that upon hearing an allegation of child abuse that they are to contact the Society's Legal Department. I'm sorry but that tells me right off where the priorities are. ""

Pffffffffffffffffffff..., finally a 'brother' with common sense, one that doest want to be fooled anymore by the WT Society. Hats off!!!!

But there is one thing that I don't agree with you: "The world hates us anyway and thinks very little of us." The world doest hate you, it's like you said yourself "they watch us go about our business trying to fool them into thinking we are better than them"!! That's the whole issue!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
02:28:37
Comments

Why on earth would anyone want to belong to an organization so far away from what Jesus tried to teach people?? It is just mind-boggling that such a dictatorial so-called religion, with such juvenile rules & regulations could gain so many followers. Boy, oh Boy, if Christ ever did come back to earth and found out about the Watchtower organization, and what a mockery it has made of true spiritual meaning He would be flabbergasted, and probably nail himself back on the cross. If a person cannot find some sort of spiritual meaning in life without joining such a transparently phony CULT, then these people are truly to be pitied. The TRUTH, they call it !! Such arrogance !!! The "truth" is, that it is a scam, operated by a bunch of old men who live very well off the money donated by a multitude of true 'slaves' .... slaves who have been brainwashed to believe that everything the Watchtower tells them has to be accepted as the FINAL answer. How very, very sad, and what a depressing commentary on our human frailties. God help us all, is all I can say, and if He will, the first thing He should do is expose this arrogant Cult for what it is.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
02:35:36
Comments

TO ALL SILENTLAMBS: My name is Jean Kraus and I am an inactive witness from the Fresh Pond Road Congregation in Queens NY. I am also the mother and sister of incest survivors, still suffering from the aftereffects of the abuse. So many times I wanted to come forward and put my name on this web site, but for fear of being called an apostate by the Society I didn't. Now I realize, that no one but God can judge me, and I know that He does not look down on me with angry for supporting victims and survivors of abuse. I have been a child advocate since 1992. When the girls molester wasn't disfellowshipped, I questioned the elders, I was told their abuser (my husband at the time and a Ministerial Servant)was not a wicked person , but he was weak and I was not to question the outcome of the hearing. The healing of the girls and our family would have been so much easier if our feelings were validated and if he was disfellowshipped. One elder knew he was a con artist, for he told me this after the judicial meeting. The feelings that enveloped me were devastating, I wanted to die. My daughter told me she would lay in bed and think of ways to kill herself. My sister suffered physically from the stress of the abuse. The rest of my family was in shock, and my sons left the Org. When the abuse was first told to me , I tried to have my husband arrested, but the girls were over eighteen when they told me, so the authorities told me they had to report it not me. Another let down. They were too scared and ashamed.I needed the elders to support me by reporting the abuse, but was told they were not mandated to report abuse in NY, so they didnt.In fact, the elders never even spoke to my daughter about the abuse and never even comforted her,she told me she is very hurt by this still to this day and feels betrayed that someone who was a close friend of hers would defend the sexual abuse policy, he is an elder. When I tried to warn other families in our hall of my husband (ex), I was warned to keep silent otherwise I would be marked, and I was causing division in the hall and if I did not listen to the elder's counsel I would be disfellowshipped. Another let down. I couldn't believe that the molester wasn't DF'd but I would be, it was then that even though I still went to meetings and gave talks and went preaching, my heart was aching for justice, but was told I had to wait on Jehovah. I believed that and I still do, and I know that the time has come and He has answered our prayers with all this exposure coming out and our wait is over. I do not hate any witness and never did and I am not turning my back on Jehovah, I am just trying to heal by telling the truth, which God knows I am. And I want to tell all the victims that you are survivors now and as a mother I want to tell you that I love all of you and I believe you and I am so sorry for the horrible crimes committed against you. I want to validate your feelings and offer you support and to tell you that as a volunteer for Silentlambs I am here for you and I am fighting to change the Statute of Limitations for sexual abuse. And to all those who posted such negative replies to Bill Bowen and the Silentlambs, remember this, do as Jesus did and have compassion for all people and do not judge harshly, for you will be judged also by your heart condition....Thanks Bill for being the elder me and my daughter have always been looking for..

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
03:53:50
Comments

I have read for the first time many of the posts in the Guestbook made since Dateline aired. It is the first opportunity I have had due to being inundated with email that I have been trying to answer. At the moment we have several JW pedophiles that are having charges press against them in different parts of the country. Also over 40 pedophile surveys have been turned in with numerous stories of abuse that will be going up shortly on the “abused lambs” page. As I read the posts made so far I was struck by to pain and sadness so many have as a result of WT Policy. WE BELIEVE YOU! Here you will never be doubted, your story will never be questioned, we will support you in anyway possible to heal and report those who hurt you. That is the purpose of silentlambs.

There are areas some have asked about and I would like to provide some brief answers. First, legal action, if you wish to pursue legal action please be careful who you talk to. There are those who would take advantage. I have asked the Webmaster to take all legal advertisements off the website as I do not know who these people are and they have made no effort to contact me. I do not trust them. If you feel you would like to do something in that direction email me and I will be glad to put you with someone who is very credible. info@silentlambs.org

Second, a few have asked about donations. If you read the “gift to sl” you will note all donations go to the assistance of victims. I take no salary and devote hundreds of hours as a donation of my time and effort. Our funding is very limited and as a result we are limited as to what we can do, so if anyone's heart moves them to assist, the more we get the more we can do for survivors. I just looked at the sl account we have $2,143.25 in the bank and to date since Dateline aired I have received a total of $50 in donations from one kind person. The hotline phone bill this month will be close to $400 along with website expenses. When things get tight I have certain ones I can call who are generous to help keep things going, for their help I am very grateful. Perhaps this will help some to see why I have the donate button at the top of the page.

Third, you will note there are a variety of posts that appear on the Guestbook. I try to allow most to remain as it gives the viewer the full picture of how survivors are affected. The anger, sorrow, sense of loss, bitterness, sadness, to name a few are so clearly presented, it needs to come out, you will not be silenced here. I also allow those who bitterly defend WT Policy as it helps the viewer to see how blinded a few are to the reality presented by this website. To this day I marvel how some can walk over all this evidence and call survivors liars. Understand many who read their posts marvel and understand why this problem continues in the organization, it is a living testament. So please do not be offended, this is a rough Guestbook born from atrocities committed against children.

Fourth, many have asked where I stand with regard to belief and teachings of the organization. I remain neutral on any expressions about doctrine. Silentlambs is a support group for all JW victims of abuse. This group ranges in those who have been DF'd, da, inactive, regular, pioneer, etc.. Who do we have the right to turn our backs on? All were hurt as children and are trying to find the path healing. At silentlambs we practice a don't ask don't tell rule whenever we gather or assist one another. That is we come together as survivors and your status is a non issue, you will always have the support of silentlambs. Our message is about healing and getting better, being the best person you can be, giving back to others and learning to never be a silent lamb.

silentlambs

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
04:24:11
Comments

As always when the Watchtower is exposed as it really is with good documentation and facts we have the loyal WT apologists JW's crawling out of the woodwork to deliver some of their usual pathetic one or two liners, like these:

"Those of you bashing witnesses, Pathetic ignorant fools, only looking to release your anger on people who try to lead clean lives, I am not a JW but I have respect for them, how can you possibly base your opinion on them for a few sick individuals. I don't see anyone attacking the Catholics for condemning "sinners" to hell and forcing collection plates. These are people. You are no better than the hatred spewing Nazis that terrorized the Jews or the KKK, that's right you prejudiced hypocrites! "

"Looks like an APOSTATE website to me. How could you do something like this??? It's so sad to see someone do this...."

"You are probably a Catholic that is spearheading these untruths to take the heat off of the terrible problems confronting your church. Soon the Catholic church will answer to God for their conduct. (for the one that is behind this site ) this system is about to end and sad to say you will go down with it..."

These comments are great though, because they show perfectly well the complete lack of empathy and compassion with the victims of the abuse that exist among the rank and file JW's. Here we can see the true face of what they call "Christian Love" in action as practiced by JW's.

It demonstrates the true attitude of loyal devout Jehovah's Witnesses and the cadaver discipline among the rank and file. No matter what kind of horrible abuse you are subjected to in the hands of elders and fellow JW's, you have to take it. Don't rock the boat! Don't do anything to bring shame on Jehovah. What a despicable and sick cult Jehovah's Witnesses are.

So thank you folks! Keep posting these one liners to spew you insane hatred for truth and decency. It reveals your true nature and attitudes.

This one is so typical of a JW who have absolutely no arguments against the well documented material about the horrible conditions within the WT organization and then have to deliver the ultimate last pathetic, impotent and helpless line with the universal and usual threat, my God will kill you because you just exposed us for the creeps we are:

(for the one that is behind this site) this system is about to end and sad to say you will go down with it..........."

Norm

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
08:04:53
Comments

Norm, you are so right!! There is no use in calling each other names, as J.W.'s are so brainwashed they don't even know it (and the few that do know it, are so scared to lose their so called friends that they wont even admit it to themselves!!) and the rest of the world will never understand why these people let themselves be so brainwashed and fooled by WT. So we all, like Bill Bowen, would better put all our energy in protecting and saving our kids from these criminals, no matter their religion!!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
09:50:32
Comments

Someone wrote: *Just because someone claims nothing is going on doesn't make it so. Old expression "5% make it happen; 5% watch it happen; and 80% ask what happened."

Great quote, but.................. What about the other ten percent? LOL

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
11:37:23
Comments

Hi..I am in awe at the powerful sight this is. It is about time to open the hearts of those wanting real truth to be known, and protecting those innocents. Thank you so much. I love what your doing..Keep it public, keep it public.. judith judyk@neumedia.net

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
14:26:03
Comments

Hi I would like to thank Bill Bowen for opening this web site. It is time that the silent ones stand up and speak out for them selves. God will honor your love that you have for the thousands of abused victims. It is time for the Watchtower to step back and see that they need to change a lot of rules in their organization. They need to realize that people need LOVE, and with that comes FREEDOM of speech. I pray for all of the victims that have been silenced for MANY of yrs! The ones that have chosen to be in an organization like the Jehovah's Witness,need to realize that when we obey and honor God that we honor our Government also, the Bible commands that we pray for our leaders of our country, not to turn against them in any way. It is Gods will that this information be revealed about the Watchtower Society. The shunning that takes place in the Society is also another sin that God has no part of. I pray that God would manifest him self in such a way that the organization would have no doubt as to WHO God truly is! May the Lord keep a hedge of protection around each person that has been abused by this organization. Satan destroys and desires to sift us like wheat. In Jesus name we have the power to over come the enemy who is trying to destroy innocent people. Thank you for this web site, and many blessings and love to all of the ones who are suffering in so many ways. God Bless Sharon Rid595@cs.com

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
14:57:51
Comments

I would like to ask why my post to this page keep being removed. who is doing that. I state 1 thing in favor of the JW group and it doesn't stay on the site. I am confused what this site is for if post keep being removed. why are we not free to post what we wish? Thanks Karen

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
14:58:04
Comments

I would like to ask why my post to this page keep being removed. who is doing that. I state 1 thing in favor of the JW group and it doesn't stay on the site. I am confused what this site is for if post keep being removed. why are we not free to post what we wish? Thanks Karen

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
14:58:10
Comments

I would like to ask why my post to this page keep being removed. who is doing that. I state 1 thing in favor of the JW group and it doesn't stay on the site. I am confused what this site is for if post keep being removed. why are we not free to post what we wish? Thanks Karen

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
14:58:20
Comments

I would like to ask why my post to this page keep being removed. who is doing that. I state 1 thing in favor of the JW group and it doesn't stay on the site. I am confused what this site is for if post keep being removed. why are we not free to post what we wish? Thanks Karen

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
16:02:10
Comments

Anyone who know one of Jehovah's Witnesses or has been to the Kingdom Hall should know that what is said in this website are lies. They things said are lies or twisted around to sound like what they are not. It makes me sick to read what you are writing. You make it sound as if any time someone makes a mistake they are disfellowshipped, which is no true. If you do something really bad and do not turn from that way then you can be disfellowshipped. Jehovah's Witnesses follow what the bible says and take the bible very serious.

I encourage any who have questions to ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses to explain what their beliefs are and do not listen to these lies on this website.

Child molestation is a horrible thing and none of Jehovah's Witnesses would protect or condone any child molester.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
16:03:01
Comments

To the person who wrote that you are pointing out negative things about JW's. I have been a JW for over 30 yrs. FYI: THE ELDERS ONLY REPORT ABUSE IF IT IS REQUIRED BY LAW (16 STATES)...OR ANY OTHER CRIME FOR THAT MATTER. THE BROTHER ON DATELINE WHO IS IN PRISON (MANUEL) WAS DF'D FOR 6 MO. MOST ARE NOT DF'D AND IF THE ABUSER OR FAMILY SAY ANYTHING TO ANYONE ELSE...WARNING OTHER PUBLISHERS TO PROTECT THEIR KIDS, ETC. THEY ARE PUBLICLY REPROVED OR DF'D. JW'S DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS GOING ON AND THEY REALLY BELIEVE THAT ABUSERS ARE REMOVED.....USUALLY THEY ARE NOT. WE NEED TO WAKE UP AND PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
16:28:38
Comments

OK Bill I got the message and my PayPals are on the way. You will see me every month. Sooner if need be.

For anyone looking to follow me here is a tip. The donation site on the main page is much easier to use than the one on the Guestbook. The Guestbook link is so small it is hard to use. And even a $5 dollar donation does matter. Regardless of the theocracy of the people involved my love is to the children; Any children ours or yours. For any person who can't understand why Bill created this site know this. Witnesses, if this is a crime against God to you, then that crime is we love your kids. You may think this misguided. I tell you what, if these are the end times, on that day you people who did nothing, You say why you did nothing. Those who are there for the protection children, You say why you did this.

Let God judge.

Peace and love to you Brother Bill. Glory to Jehovah God for this site.

I know here I stand.

WTCOVERTOPS@AOL.com

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
16:51:06
Comments

Jehovah's Witnesses are like any other humans. They are not perfect so some do really bad things. That does no mean that Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole are bad. They try to lead clean lives. I would not want to be around any Witnesses who has molested a child but if they do repent then they will be able to still be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I am very sorry for any who have been molested, whether they are a Witness or not. The Catholics had to all go to New York and decide what to do about this problem. Jehovah's Witnesses have always knew what their stand on the matter is. If there is more than one person making a claim then the elders can do something about it other wise they can't (it says in the bible to have two or three witnesses). If a elder told a family they would be disfellowshipped for reporting it to the police then he was wrong. The family has the right to do that. The reason the elders don't report it to the police is because it usually can be handled in the congregation. If not the family can report it. In most states it is not the law to report it or the elders would even if there was only one witness, because that would be the law. Jehovah's Witnesses have put out many articles on how to protect our children from child molesting. We hate the sin of child molesting and would never condone it at all. The elders can not read hearts so if the child molesters seems repentant sometimes he/she is allowed to remain in the congregation. If he/she goes to any door the have to be with someone that is not ever been child molester. I believe on the Dateline show it showed a man that had been a child molester at a door, but there was also another person with him. You can not condemn all of Jehovah's Witnesses for what a group of witnesses did (which is a horrible thing). Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole try to lead good clean lives. Even though some witnesses that have molested are allowed to stay in the congregation the elders inform all the members of the congregation of who he/she is and what they did. If that person moved the new congregation would inform the new congregation of what he/she has done and the elders would tell the members of the congregation. The organization does not in any way protect that person from jail of any action by the courts or police. Any child molester can not serve as an elder or in any position in the congregation of responsibility. Many things on this website are twisted around and many things are lies. For one example, people are not disfellowshipped for about anything they do, they are disfellowshipped for doing something really bad and not being repented. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION PLEASE GO TO ONE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND ASK THEM THE QUESTION SO THEY CAN EXPLAIN. Don't trust people that hate the witnesses or who claim to be a witness but to not act like they are (but telling how bad we are a twisting the truth).

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
16:52:44
Comments

To those who are victims, your second witness comes in the form of "forensic" science which our civil authorities use diligently. While each state may not have a Law for "shepherds" to have to report a crime. Does not God have one which says to "obey the Laws of the land". Exactly, we are to "obey CIVIL laws for reporting crimes. It is not only law, it is humane, it is a Godly act to help another in need.

Now while the WT wants to protect its own gluteus maximus. You will stand before Jehovah and have to tell Him why you didn't act to help an innocent and lowly one. Just like the admonition in 2 Tim 2:15 "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth".

I doest matter if you are a Jehovah Witness, or a Mormon, or a Catholic, or a Baptist or not even in a church. Everyone deserves the right to choose what is done to them in their life. These are moral things the thread of what righteousness is made of.

May God bring you all Peace, Love and Joy

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
16:59:02
Comments

Yes, God's law does say to obey the law of the land but only 16 states say that you have to report the crime. If the law says to report the molesting then the elders do, no matter how many witnesses there are even one.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
17:01:24
Comments

The family always has the right to report the crime to the police. And if any one says they will be punished then that person is wrong for saying that.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
17:05:35
Comments

I guess I am not done. Remember the "naughty one" who keeps on transforming himself as an angel of light? The one who would fool even the very elect if it were not for God bringing this to an end?

I see all kinds of personalities posting here. Victims first of all. Then second the ones who belong to the organization that have not had this bad experience who are adamantly defending their faith. And then third I see everyone else who lives outside the "protected Bubble" of the WT Society showing cause for the ignorance and blindness in the world. Well pull up your boot straps, this blindness exists in every faith and in every walk. God is cleaning house and "NO ONE" is going to remain hidden. What the perpetrator does in secret will come to light not just in the Catholic faith, or the Jehovah's Witness's but all walks will get this shake down.

For those of you who have not had to live this horror. And since you don't know. I will share this well known metaphor "It is better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". YOU have NOT walked a mile in their shoes and DO NOT have the right to judge those who say they are victims. How dare you.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
17:14:38
Comments

I agree with you that you should not judge any one who says he/she is a victim. If someone was to do that then they are wrong. I have heard stories of have other people turn their back to ones how say they are victims (from this website) but if that's true then those people, as I said, are wrong. We don't know if these ones saying they are victims are or are not. I hope if they are victims that they can find help, and if they are not victims then they will be exposed.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
17:22:35
Comments

Most of the comments are just wonderful!

Congratulations of the airing of Dateline - it has definitely opened up a lot of comments in the guest book. Many more people finding this "safe" place.

Regarding divisions: The WTS have been doing the dividing for a ignoble cause. Love does not divide. Truth does not divide on itself. Liars cannot handle the truth. They have already primed the congregations for the "cleaning" out - to clean out what is clean, beneficial, what is good and what will be left??? Dirt and dirt-bags. The WTS has proved that they are not noble, not just, not honest in their dealings and control is better if it divides. WTS is divisive, is ignoble and hates what is good, beneficial, clean - one hell of an organization. They alienate, ignore, neglect the innocent in behalf of "not causing division."

It is Better to cause division for what is noble than to cause division for what is evil and wicked. It is not better to ignore, neglect what in reality divides so that there is an illusion of no division. Nothing is as complicated as it looks. Pedophiles are criminals and any toleration, support, over-looking of this is just plain common sense wrong and if it causes a division let that division be for what is Noble. It is better than standing by and WATCHing.

Bill and all of you who had the courage to stand up and be noble are not to be "commended" for doing what is just being a slave to God as you should be. Then you would be big fat "egos" like the rest of them. You are better than that!

Pedophiles love the WTS and the brothers & sisters tolerance of them. And that is the only love they have right now. If they had the love of God, or LOVE for God and his righteousness this site would be full of remorse, repair, and words of humility from the WTS, the pedophiles, all those who support the pedophiles and have shunned the innocent victims and caused so much DIVISION.

To my knowledge not one JW Pedophile has wrote to the victims on this web site with remorse for the division HE CAUSED, between a victim and her conscience, between members of the congregation and their conscience. Let alone make restitution voluntarily. A truly remorseful, "godly" pedophile would have turned himself into the police - need I say more??? And would have stopped the division he caused.

Who is running this one hell of an organization???

I do not have to love my neighbor anymore than what the ten commands dictate to me. This embracing, protecting, this sympathy and "compassion" is phoney worldly love and is in direct opposition to Jehovah's principals of love in conjunction with the fruit of the spirit. Love is responsible not an excuse to be irresponsible, or to demand irresponsibility. Crazy-making and confusion. Chaos - yes it is chaos. Organized chaos and confusion. On the surface organized to hide the chaos and confusion lying LIES beneath the surface.

Bill projects a real Christian love that requires sacrifice and fearlessness of faith. This has helped me to believe that there are noble men and women and now I don't feel so "divided spiritually" or "divided off" like an Alien in the chaos. The example of love and faith on this site is encouraging to seekers of real Christian love and what is means to have real faith in God.

If a person loves the WTS or their brother more than God - of what use are they?? If they show more love for a pedophile than the innocent how are they any different, and how are they reflecting the love of God but as a hypocrite. Fear of man is not faith in Jehovah or the love of God but only the fear of man. Fake love is the fear of man, real love knows and puts their trust in Jehovah to show them the right action to take and trust that Jehovah will back them up when they do it. What bigger test than to take the organization that alienated the innocent in the name of Jehovah and exercise faith in Jehovah by doing what is RIGHT? Fake love fears the truth and does nothing to right a wrong. For the love of God you cannot do wrong & get away with it.

IT WAS THE IGNOBLE ACTS OF WTS, THE ELDERS WHO DID NOTHING, AND THE SHEEP WHO STAND BY AND WATCH THAT HAVE CAUSED THE DIVISION IN THE CONGREGATIONS. Not Bill, Not the innocent who want justice, not the ones who would not stand for it and stood up to it.

Amen

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
17:29:50
Comments

The WTS (Watch Tower Society) follows what the bible says to do. I am sorry if you think this should have been handled differently than the bible (God's word) says to handle it. The WTS have and are trying the best that they can to make sure these kind of things don't happen. The WTS has never offered money to anyone to keep them quiet, etc. The WTS is headed by humans so mistakes can be made. But the society as a whole follows what the bible says.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:00:18
Comments

To all of you who have posted above, ponder this:

This is why I am not a organizational Witness. You creatures do not even comprehend the concept of taking responsibility for your actions. As long as your "Elders" don't decide to have an issue with your conduct you don't care.

To entertain your 1Tim 5:19 defense shows how willfully stupid you all are. That is exactly what disgusts me about you creatures!

If it were adult males in your self-indulgent delusional world that were being hunted, preyed upon, and violated you would have an entirely different outlook on this. Sadly pathetic, and archaic as it is, women and children are nothing more that chattel in your organization. (I will not even give it a Capital anymore.) JW's your behavior and your values are disgustingly vile. They are an abomination to our Lord and true Christians and around the World.

PLEASE people I am begging you in the name of Christ and the one who sent him. Put down your Man Made Literature and pick up the Bible. You are being misled. YOU HAVE MINDS USE THEM!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:05:45
Comments

I encourage you all to visit the Watch Tower's website. The address is www.watchtower.org . You are now visiting a website that doesn't agree with and is against Jehovah's Witnesses so make sure you hear both sides. The Watch Tower website doesn't have is much material on the subject of whether or not they are covering up child molester. But they do have information on it. They have all the different articles they have put out for years telling about child molesters: How to watch for them, and how Jehovah's Witnesses feel about them. Please give both side a chance and give as much attention to finding out about were Jehovah's Witnesses stand as you do about what they do wrong. This is the letter the Watch Tower Society sent to Dateline: http://www.jw-media.org/releases/rgreenberg020702.pdf . This is a letter telling what and why Jehovah's Witnesses position on child molestation is http://www.jwmedia.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm .

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:06:05
Comments

I like the site and hope it helps all

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:15:42
Comments

I partly agree with the man or woman that wrote (a few up) to put down man made literature and pick up the bible. We all should look in the bible for the answer to everything in life. But the literature that comes from Jehovah's Witnesses comes from the bible. The literature is just a bible aid to discuss bible topic and then the literature gives you the scriptures were all the information is found. I encourage all to ask Jehovah's Witnesses about any of their beliefs and where they are found in the bible. If you do this in a respectful way any Witness will be happy to answer your questions. You can also visit www.watchtower.org which will explain some of our beliefs.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:42:46
Comments

When is this information going to get into the general media. The makes the Catholic Church priesthood look like "kids" play.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:43:30
Comments

When is this information going to get into the general media. This makes the Catholic Church priesthood look like "kids" play.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:46:29
Comments

. A truly remorseful, "godly" pedophile would have turned himself into the police - need I say more??? And would have stopped the division he caused.

**This is a really good point. I never thought of that. I should have. I remember one sister who, before she was baptized, had many affairs with other men. Upon the "suggestion" of the elders, she told her husband and asked him to forgive her. She told me it had been a requirement for her to be baptized. (I suppose I should have "turned myself in" too, but I have to admit I am rather glad I never opened -my- mouth about what I did before I started studying! I'd still be apologizing! To everyone! I was pretty bad.)

You are so right. If an abuser is really sincere, he will -want- to go to the elders, he will -want- to turn himself in to the police; he will -want- to write a simple NON SELF SERVING apology to the victim and her family, and then stay the hell away from them - for good. There are probably other things a molester can do to show his sincere sorrow, but I think much of that depends on what the victim (or should I say survivor?) desires. At no point should the molester force his apology on the victim. Never. At no point should the molester rationalize his behavior. Hey, my father was molested repeatedly when he was a child; I can understand -why- he might have done the same to me, but that doesn't mean he should have. He was an extremely intelligent man and most certainly knew that what he had done was unspeakable. A four year old innocent girl. No wonder I'm crazy. How do you ever really get over something like that? None of my family believes me, either. I'm just the sick one, the pathetic one, the trouble maker. (All non-Witnesses, by the way.)

I kind of changed gears here, I'm sorry. I just am so stupid; it never dawned on me that a sincerely repentant molester would willingly pay the price for his crimes - whatever that price might be.

R.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:47:34
Comments

Witnesses always talk about being shown respect. As my Mother puts it, "They would be given respect by us if there was anything to respect."

Respect is earned.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
18:57:42
Comments

For one example, people are not disfellowshipped for about anything they do, they are disfellowshipped for doing something really bad and not being repented

**This is simply not true. I know of many sincerely repentant Witnesses who got the ax anyway, and I hate to say it, but it was almost always a woman. A single woman. I think the only person lower in the congregation than a single woman who has no family in the truth is an abuse victim crying for help. No one has the courage to deal with them. And that's right?????

And why on earth should a victim and her family be "repentant" for doing what they have a moral obligation to do before God and their fellow citizens by reporting a case of abuse? That's a SIN? Uh......I don't think so. You're heart is in the right place but you need to rethink that statement.

R.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
20:01:00
Comments

I was sexually assaulted by a servant who was appointed by the Holy Spirit of JW's while I was a child. Later The Holy Spirit of JW's promoted him to be Presiding Overseer (PO).Later in a phone call to a Governing Body member,Bro. Jackson told me to write down on Selective Service papers that my PO had baptized me, which was a big Fib.I refused!

My mother on her death bed said she couldn't do anything about the molester back then, as she needed his mother as a friend.

The last time I went to a Kingdom Hall was for Mom's funeral service, she got preached as a zealous witness with a hope of earthly resurrection. Rev.21:8 "But as for the cowards and those without faith... will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death."

Where's my MOM? WTguineaPIG@ziplip.com

rest of story at www freeminds.org sex abuse page July 23,2001

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
20:07:52
Comments

I was sexually assaulted by a servant who was appointed by the Holy Spirit of JW's while I was a child. Later The Holy Spirit of JW's promoted him to be Presiding Overseer (PO).Later in a phone call to a Governing Body member, Bro. Jackson told me to write down on Selective Service papers that my PO had baptized me, which was a big Fib.I refused!

My mother on her death bed said she couldn't do anything about the molester back then, as she needed his mother as a friend.

The last time I went to a Kingdom Hall was for Mom's funeral service, she got preached as a zealous witness with a hope of an earthly resurrection. Rev.21:8 "But as for the cowards and those without faith... will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death."

Where's my MOM? WTguineaPIG@ziplip.com

rest of story at www freeminds.org sex abuse page July 23,2001

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
20:13:29
Comments

Thank you Kevin - Finally a letter of remorse. Read my comments for June 1st - asking for where are the letters of remorse. Had not read your letter before I wrote mine.

You may get letters of rage - this will be good for you and the person who writes them. Better people are enraged with you then to be tolerant and "love you for who you are" if you know what I mean.

For me it showed "them" meaning them as in WTS, them as in standing by and doing nothing, them meaning the pedophiles who con the suckers who tolerate them etc....as to what is the "right" thing to do when you do something this destructive to another human being - even if you are imperfect.

You put egg on the face of it. This is good.

Being imperfect is no excuse for doing what is unquestionable wrong and no excuse for acceptance of doing horrible and terrible acts upon a child. And being imperfect is no excuse for not having sincere remorse and showing it. You know it, I know it.

You know that, now why is it the pedophiles in congregation don't know it, or the WTS, or the Elders????

Anyway you set an example of "the letter" I was looking for and maybe these JW's that visit this site calling Bill gay, an apostate, everyone a bunch of whiners, liars etc...would kindly ask themselves why there is only one letter of remorse from a pedophile and an ex-JW at that. I know the answer.

Only a liar is afraid of the truth. That is why they lie. You are not afraid of the ugly truth even if it is about you, even if you are hated for telling the truth about your ugly deeds - you are cleaner than a person who supports & tolerates this or does it and never comes to remorse.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
21:02:29
Comments

Bill Bowen,

Is Missouri one of the 16 states that require reporting?

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
21:59:04
Comments

Bill, thank you very much for the hard work past, present and future. It's by no means over. This organization by its own testimony in the '39 Salvation book claimed that holy spirit wasn't necessary now the Organization had been identified (1918). Whatever good Russell did has long gone. The wts is bound for its own Armageddon and there will be a lot of work for you to do, they are masters of the half-truth. I don't know what the best way of organizing is but I would assume that would require some serious money.

As for the JW molestation rate of 23,720 cases (another report I heard was 2 cases in each congregation on average) this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. Dunno what I can do. The cases of the two JW sisters that has haunted me for years still haunts me. I emailed one to see if she wants to sue. I could help her with that but my guess is there will be too much pain for her and her family to go through. She went through enough the first time.

Thank you for all your hard work.

Peace

Deleted.

glen@greenstead. com

SAY NO TO DISFELLOWSHIPPING!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Jun 2002
Time:
22:18:07
Comments

In New Mexico, Dateline was preempted by a basketball game, and the local station did NOT announce the change or the info contained so I didn't get to see it Do you know how I can get a copy? sandimylife@hotmail.com My story is long and I have been beaten by elders for 30+ years, so this is not my real name.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:15:24
Comments

Bro. Bowen:

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but this past week the society announced to all congregations during the service meeting the organization's position on child molestation. It was very succinct and to the point. You can find this information at http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=bg_molestation.htm.

It is apparent to me that you have started your organization in hopes of exposing a flaw. With the above mentioned release I think that your efforts have seen some results although I know you are in no way looking for self gratification. The brothers including the governing body are not perfect as you know. They are all working as shepherds surrounded by a dark world; Satan's world. At times what may be viewed as impropriety or a lack of concern is simply the fruition of this wicked system of things.

I am not so audacious so as to say that these efforts of yours have been Jehovah's direction, however there has been light shed on this matter that appears to be a change in thinking from years past. Does this mean then that Jehovah's organization or Kingdom arrangement is imperfect? No, certainly not. It simply means that human imperfection has crept into Jehovah's perfect arrangement. Sometimes our brothers get caught up in trying not to make a mistake or rushing into something without Jehovah's direction, that we loose sight of the spiritual common sense that Jehovah has helped us cultivate with spiritual maturity.

With all this said even if there is some serious wrongdoing, remember 2 Corinthians 11: 12-15.

“Now what I am doing I will still do, that I may cut off the pretext from those who are wanting a pretext for being found equal to us in the office of which they boast. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.”

That's right ‘there end shall be according to their works.' Jehovah will take care of those that have been in fact covering over matters or have been ‘deceitful workers.'

In reading your letter to the governing body two of the three mandates you proposed have now been acted upon. The third being restriction from the door to door activity would be contrary to the scriptural commandment found at Matthew 28:19-20.

“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Asking anyone that is in good standing regardless of their past to not share in the preaching work would be contrary to this commandment. Furthermore, adopting such a policy would exclude any person that has committed a serious wrong from the preaching work. In God's eye a sin is a sin. As you know fornicators, adulterers and so on will not inherit God's kingdom. This of course includes those abusing children.

Although it sickens me greatly to think that human imperfection has marred Jehovah's Organization, I will not let this weaken my faith nor should you. There simply is nothing else out there. If being a Jehovah's Witness does not lead down the narrow path that few are finding then it simply does not exist!

My point to all this is that things are not perfect, mistakes are certainly made but at some point we as human beings can sometimes become addicted to tragedy and chaos. Why do you think there are so many television programs that focus on human tragedy? Don't become addicted to the buzz around stirring the pot. I say this not to cover or sweep serious issues under the rug, but rather to say that the issue has finally been addressed. Elders are now instructed to report to the authorities any behavior of this nature and to use any two separate accusations as being two witnesses in fulfillment of the instructions given in Matthew.

Isaiah 55:8-9

“For the thoughts of YOU people are not my thoughts, nor are my ways YOUR ways,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than YOUR ways, and my thoughts than YOUR thoughts.”

Jehovah does know what is best for us. We must not loose sight of this. This wicked system and its god will continue to try to thwart us from gaining salvation. Times such as these truly do remind us that these are the “last days.” In your some 40 plus years of service I am sure that you know this. Don't let the mistakes of men rob you of your goal as well as that of your family.

Sincerely,

Your brother

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:19:12
Comments

Here, in San Jose, CA, the Mercury news featured an article about a disfellowshipped JW women who chose to see her daughter (raised in the JW faith and left, at age eighteen)and wrote a book about her experiences. Subsequently, I wrote the journalist, R.Scheinin, that Ms Wilson's--disfellowshipping--experiences, though factually valid, were not earth shaking (despite the fact her husband reported her). Rather, rampant alcoholism, adultery, fornication(both hetero and homosexual), and pedophilia/pederasty were the true shocking and scandalous skeletons. It was pointed out that all this immorality is "swept under the rug" in order to appear before the world as "without spot" "free of sinners", which is, of course, a patent lie (no organized religion is free from the spot of sin). The following week Dateline's story broke (5/28/02). My heart aches for these poor children and their parents, who, like it as not, are emotionally scarred for the duration of their natural lives. There is no valid excuse for these developments. Organizationally, it is far too easy for these uneducated, inexperienced, empathically dead elders to practice the one simple rule that would release them from all potential scandal: "When in doubt--through them out!" What dumb founds me is why this practice is ignored, allow the matter to compound , violate "Caesar's law", and employ the excuse the Catholic Church uses with regard the sacrosanct confessional; which to my knowledge and decades of association, the Watchtower has categorically denied and refused to acknowledge the act of repentance as one and the same thing. Now they are? I say the following knowing full well how difficult it would be for some to follow, but the sole means to get the international Watchtower to acknowledge the heinous conspiracy and cover up is to put as many of these 23 thousand, and counting, cases into Superior and Federal Courts across the land--and make it very public (this is what caused the Catholic Church to flinch, finally). There is one thing the Watchtower HQ fears, with deep dread, is publicity and loosing face before the world of on-lookers. The Bible, both Old and New Testaments, is emphatically clear--the truth must always come to light (remember the reasons for the Prophets and Jesus Christ). In order for the truth to prevail, it must be brought before Caesar's rule(s) of criminal law. Contrary to what the Watchtower spokesmen stated, pedophilia/pederasty are not modern day social problems, they have been with the human race since Adam commenced inseminating both Eve and many of his own daughters (remember where Canaan got his wife, after slaying Able), and set the paternal example for his subsequent sons.

Thank you for the courageous website and personal courage. Please keep up the work of forwarding the truth, so many others may be set free (John 8:23); or a least on guard for their children's safety!

Sincerely submitted,

R. Peterson

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:26:49
Comments

Witnesses always talk about being shown respect. As my Mother puts it, "They would be given respect by us if there was anything to respect." Respect is earned? I don't understand what you mean. How have Jehovah's Witnesses not earned respect?

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:31:09
Comments

Dear R.

I would like for you to tell me more about disfellowshipping and how I'm wrong?

I would appreciate that very much?

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:31:18
Comments

Dear R.

I would like for you to tell me more about disfellowshipping and how I'm wrong?

I would appreciate that very much?

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:31:24
Comments

Dear R.

I would like for you to tell me more about disfellowshipping and how I'm wrong?

I would appreciate that very much?

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
00:35:30
Comments

Of course no group of people are without spots. But as a whole Jehovah's Witnesses try to maintain a clean life that follows the bible (god's word). Many people are disfellowshipped each year for what they do wrong that is why the organization can stay clean. We are all humans so we all do make mistakes.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
03:38:02
Comments

A part of this that also makes this issue especially bad is that these pedophiles know that the congregation won't turn them and won't advise the child's parents to turn them in. So basically they can do what ever they want & if the child can come forward & speak up they know that they still are going to get away with it. In our hall a number of years back an elders son threatened another elders daughter that if she said anything about him raping her that he would ruin her fathers reputation in the hall. So not only was he abusing her physically he was also holding her hostage until she finally couldn't hold it in anymore. Basically the victims family just changed congregations so they didn't have to continue to look at the guy as he came in & commented away at every meeting. The witnesses need to WAKE UP and realize that what has been going on is not acceptable to Jehovah and it is now being dealt with even if it makes you feel uncomfortable because it's being done publicly. Victims need to speak out - they can't continue to be held hostage by these MONSTERS! and PLEASE LEAVE ANY JUDGING TO JEHOVAH! Could it be that you just don't know all of the facts and besides name calling and abusive speech will not impress anybody and just reflects on your heart condition.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
03:38:11
Comments

In response to:

"IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION PLEASE GO TO ONE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND ASK THEM THE QUESTION SO THEY CAN EXPLAIN"

How? By opening this book full of pre-chewed answers????

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
04:02:15
Comments

Hi again,

Mistakes...Imperfection...We are NOT talking about this! We are talking about Criminal Behavior!!!! The watchtower web site...Yes I have been there. I read all the information they had posted!!

The facts speak for themselves!! So many refuse to consider what we are saying I want to say YOU ARE IN DENIAL. What we hate is the behavior (pedophilia) and the cover up. As a TRUE Witness of Jehovah I am telling the truth.

If I even started to tell the things I have seen beyond what I have submitted here you probably scream that I was a liar...You must realize I am not the only witness to what is going on where I live...but you probably still scream I was twisting things...Just because you (some JW) call us liars doesn't make it so.

Regardless what you think the facts speak for themselves. THERE ARE PEDOPHILES IN THE CONGREGATIONS. In Proverbs 22:3 gives very timely advice " Shrewd is the one that has seen the calamity and proceeds to conceal himself but the inexperienced have passed along and must suffer the penalty." Do you (JW's) want to suffer the penalty?Do not refuse to consider what we are saying here!!

Listen to Proverbs 21:13 " As for anyone stopping up his ear from the complaining cry of the lowly one he himself also will call and not be answered." The organization and most JW's are stopping up their ears to us. Doing this carries chilling consequences for not listening to the lowly ones...when they call Jehovah will not answer them!!! Do you (JW's) want this? DJB

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
06:21:35
Comments

A Silent Lamb Speaks:

While I've made comments in the Guestbook here in the past - this one will be different...it's personal!

Earlier today I finished my personal preparation for Sunday's (tomorrow's) WT lesson. It's been a challenging study - not because the content is deep and maybe difficult to fully understand but because I **KNEW** this material so intimately! It has always been my belief that Jehovah does find ways to make the truth of his words in the Bible known to all those looking for that truth. So I find it to be a bit of his divine guidance in the timing of some recent events. For me, this WT article fits right in there with Dateline's 5/28th show and the purpose behind this silentlambs website. But's it's my tears that bring me to posting at this site now - when it's 3AM here and my meeting's just six hours from now! Sleep is not finding me tonight.

THIS is my life now. Sleep is often hard to get. If it's not the emotions from all I've survived, it might be the nightmares that still come in my sleep, or it's often the pain that wracks my body constantly... regardless the cause, I have found that writing about it helps me to get some rest.

I've been divorced now for almost 3 years. I used to think getting the divorce would help give me some closure to the awful events that preceded it. I don't think that way anymore. There's a lot of things I don't do anymore. I don't sew all of my own clothes nor my children's clothing anymore, just like I don't write with my hands much either now, or knead fresh made bread dough, or do all the crafts I loved or even manage all those little round the house fixit jobs that I used to do. My hands no longer work like they are supposed to - taken from me by my abuser (now my ex-husband). And for those now thinking "how's she writing this then?" I have an adapted computer...literally a godsend! I love working with my hands, especially writing...the loss of that ability has been severely traumatic. I used to go for walks with my kids - can't do that now either. For now a cane helps me with the few steps I take in one time, and docs warn me it will only get worse as many old injuries are showing signs of degenerative arthritis. I used to love going lots of places and doing lots of things all the time - now it's a challenge just to get myself dressed, to care for my family, to do most of the simplest everyday sorts of things! But all of that pales in comparison to the feelings that hit me when one of my kids excitedly runs up to me and gives me a great big bear hug (forgetting how much it will hurt me) and I fight the urge to cry out in pain and struggle to replace it with something close to my former mom hugs - I don't quite get there, but we know I'm trying.

But I've sidetracked a bit... I was talking about Sunday's WT study article: "Guide Your Steps By Godly Principles" Paragraph 2 - God finds delight in intelligent creatures who choose to obey him. (Proverbs 27:11) Instead of programming us to submit blindly as mindless robots, Jehovah endowed us with free will so that we can make informed decisions to do what it right. -Hebrews 5:14

I said just about the same thing during my presentation to the elders in explaining why I'd decided I could not forgive my husband nor allow him back in our home, even if they did not find him guilty of any wrongdoing.

Paragraph 5 - (in part) (referring to several of the principles God provides us in the Bible: loving God with our whole hearts, souls and minds; the Golden Rule; etc) As to everyday aspects of our life, the apostle Paul says: "Whether you are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God's glory." (1 Corinthians 10:31)

Another point I'd mentioned as I tried to explain how bad our daily home was.

Paragraph 7 - Time and again, "the word of our God" encourages us to think and act on the basis of principles. (just the first sentence, there's more)

This point of acting on the basis of principles was something I vainly repeated, especially when struggling to understand why the elders could not take the words of not just me (being only one witness), but also those of my several children who had each witnessed many other abusive acts, as a means to prove that my husband was the one lying (not me and all the kids as he was telling them).

Paragraph 10 - You have probably seen people who are inclined to obey laws grudgingly, out of fear of a penalty. Respect for principles precludes such as attitude. The very nature of principles moves those governed by them to respond from the heart. (just the beginning sense.) then gives example of Joseph refusing the advances of Potiphar's wife and how Joseph acted on principle because there was not yet a written law against adultery... We can see from his response that such principles powerfully affected him: "How could I commit this great badness and actually sin against God?" - Genesis 39:9

Used as but one example that one doesn't not need a scripture written saying that a certain sex-related act with a child is wrong. But still it was in vain.

Paragraph 11 (in part) - Guided by Bible principles, we will not look for loopholes in God's laws; nor will we imitate those who try to see how far they can go without actually breaking a certain law.

Yet this IS what my husband always was doing...and still does! But informing the elders of this had no effect either.

Paragraph 12 - Mature Christians recognize that a key to following godly principles is wanting to know how Jehovah feels about a matter. "O you lovers of Jehovah," exhorts the psalmist, "hate what is bad." (Psalms 97:10) Listing some of the things that God would classify as bad, Proverbs 6:16-19 says: "There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven things are detestable to his soul: lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers." When a desire to reflect how Jehovah feels on such fundamentals governs our lives, living in accord with principles becomes a consistent practice. -Jeremiah 22:16

Five of these things I bore witness to that my husband was not just doing this now and then but practicing these things daily!!! My kids could also tell you of some of these things as they had each experienced many of his lies! The lies they were hurt most by and the ones that shocked them the most were those he told to the elders.

Paragraph 15 - (boy does this one make the tears fall) This example (refer to p.14 above about Jesus' Sermon on the Mount) illustrates that we should never lose sight of the intent and spirit of Jehovah's principles. We should certainly not try to earn God's favor through moral formalism. Jesus exposed the fallacy of such an attitude by pointing to God's mercy and love. (Matthew 12:7; Luke 6:1-11) Following Bible principles, we will avoid trying to live (or demand others to live)(their quote) by an extensive and rigid set of dos and don'ts that go beyond the teachings of the Bible. We will be more concerned about principles of love and obedience toward God than about the outside appearance of worship. -Luke 11:42

Did you catch that last sentence? I sure did! We WILL be more concerned about principles than about the outside appearance!!!!! So why do the elders right away when told of abuses going on want to make sure we do nothing to bring reproach on God's name or on the organization...that WE...the ones reporting to them that we are the victims of such abuse...that we would be the one's bringing such reproach if we choose to go to the police or the child protection people or whatever other authorities with this information??? WE didn't DO ANYTHING to shame Jehovah or his organization!!! ohh, the tears just won't stop now...it's a good thing I don't have to see a keyboard to write this! LOL But there's more!

Paragraph 16 (in part) - What underlies the Christian stand on those issues? (idolatry, immorality, misuse of blood) God deserves our exclusive devotion; we should be faithful to our mate; and Jehovah is the Life-Giver. (Genesis 2:24; Exodus 20:5; Psalm 36:9)

Is one being faithful to their mate if they are considering if he could make another female have an orgasm? Are you being unfaithful to your wife if you are seeking sexual pleasure from your daughters? What sort of person wonders if his infant daughter is capable of orgasms? (I stopped asking him to change diapers after that comment!!) My personal study of the Bible tells me that all of the above would stand up as violations of the principles related to being faithful to one's mate and/or not committing adultery. But I'm told I'm not scripturally free to remarry.

Paragraph 18 - Letting our life be guided by Bible principles leads to a superior way of life, which in itself may attract others to the way of God. Most important, our life course honors Jehovah. We realize that Jehovah is really a loving God who wants the best for us. When we make decisions in accord with Bible principles and see how Jehovah blesses us, we come to feel even closer to him. Yes, we further develop a loving relationship with our heavenly Father.

I am now making a decision that I believe to be in accord with Bible principles. My birth given name is Andrea Anderson. I withhold my married surname as a protection for my children still. One has totally left the truth...says she will never step foot in the Kingdom Hall because of what her father has done to her and how the elders handled it. Another is desperately seeking acceptance in worldly relationships...and being hurt by them as well...she really worries me. Another strives to be an overachiever now...as tho she must make up something lacking somewhere. They all suffer nightmares related to acts of their dad. They've been in counseling...some for years now...diagnoses of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, General Anxiety Disorder, very low self-esteem, obsessive/compulsive disorders, self-injurious behaviors and the list goes on. These are the ones that no longer have to see him!!! The younger children suffer worse!

My kids and I have found some wonderful counselors that while they are not Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, they do understand issues of faith and abuse together. They appreciate our views on many things and often will ask for our literature relating to a specific matter so they can better understand how best to help us.

I've written to the brothers in NY myself concerning this matter...several times even. Our CO got involved with these matters. And even tho the elders here and our CO then told me they did indeed believe me, there was NOTHING they could do because my husband was denying it all and even trying to turn some of the situations around to be something I'd insisted on rather than him being the one forcing it on me! To many of those particular incidents the only ones that know what really happened are me, him and Jehovah. I'd stifle my screams in pillows, and fight to keep things quiet enough so the kids were not awakened in their sleep. That was in vain too as I have since learned that some of them did hear sounds that worried and concerned them coming from our bedroom - but they are too afraid of their father to try to come in or even knock! (and the tears fall faster) But they also told me that they did discover that making one of their littler siblings cry (waking the baby, or something) did sometimes stop whatever was going on in our room if it made me come out to tend to the crying child. (they were smart kids LOL)

I know Jehovah does not want these things to go on anymore in secret...that is why Bill has been able to avoid being disfellowshipped and managed to get this information made public. (not to discount the work of all the others - they've done a great job! and I'm sure they will all be blessed by Jehovah)

Thanks in part to some of the comments here from other victims...and to Kevin(?), the man who was a pedophile and is now getting treatment and knows he cannot be around children if he's to avoid hurting them again; I've been able to determine what I think has been a hidden issue for me in all this. My ex has yet to admit to anything, or apologize to any of us (tho he once told me on the phone that he'd apologize, he would, he'd apologize for anything and everything he ever did to hurt me or the kids...just tell him what it was he had done!!!) ACK!! What it was he had done?!?!?!?!!! After countless meetings with the elders, numerous visits at the counselors' and far too many court related encounters - he claims to have no clue what he's done to us!!!! More recently he suggested that he'd be willing to admit to anything - except child molesting - and beg our forgiveness so we could become a whole family again. Does that count? I don't think so!!! My attorney once asked for a list of specific acts or incidents of abuse during our years together. When she inquired when I'd have that finished, I told her I already had ten pages, single-spaced, written on my computer and hadn't even hit the halfway mark! She suggested I just list the most traumatic events then; even that was over two pages long!

But he's still in good standing and I'm forbidden to warn anyone else of the danger he presents to others...or risk being disfellowshipped for causing divisions in the congregation or for slandering this good brother's name! What happened to acting on Bible principles? Where's the righteousness in aiding and abetting an abusive pedophile, sexual pervert, and out and out liar who claims to be one of Jehovah's witnesses?

I'm the one permanently disabled, wracked with physical pain, tormented by emotional pain, unable to work to support myself or my children, and completely unable to speak freely of what I'm dealing with to those I see as my only family. (while he goes about freely as tho he's done nothing but be injured himself by a wife throwing him out of the house!) If I am to speak of what I've survived it must be online or with those not in the truth. I need more than that to completely heal from all of this. I need to do everything possible to prevent him from gaining any future victims. I need to feel accepted by my spiritual family for making the right decision when I chose to force this man from our home. I would also like retribution paid to me and my kids by those who hurt us - but I'll manage without that one. It just seems appropriate tho. Like a couple others have said here; IF a person accused of doing these awful things to children REALLY was repentant about what he'd done then he would VOLUNTEER to repay the victim for everything he'd caused because of his selfish perverted act(s)! He'd come forward and accept his punishment. He would keep himself away from children. And he'd even agree to never contact the ones he'd hurt if that's what they wanted or needed in order to heal from the damage he caused them. That is what a TRUE Christian would do. Without this, I feel violated over and over, every time I go the hall, every time I run into someone from the congregation somewhere else - I feel the degradation and the pain of everything my husband did to me...and to my children...all over again because of the way it was handled by the elders and the brothers in NY. I feel shamed for what I allowed my husband to do! I feel guilty for bringing it out to the brothers that I thought would help us. I feel guilty because I reported it to the police, because I sought a protection order against a "brother in good standing", because I took steps to stop the abuse, to stop the violence, and to protect myself and my children! What have I done wrong? NOTHING! I've followed Bible principles! If I can't talk about it ALL then the badness festers inside me and literally makes me ill because I know it's so wrong to keep it in. Even Jehovah tells us to put away all badness (how can I if there is no closure to the abuses we suffer?)! To heal I must get it out...all of it...I've been praying for this and I sincerely feel that it is Jehovah's time for cleaning house regarding these matters! I must now pray for the strength to get through this and stand strong and be silent no more!

And now that I'm rather cried out (thanks ever so much to those of you taking the time to read all this) and feeling like I need a nap, I'll end this personal post and get some rest before the meeting in just a few hours. :)

Agape & Philia, AD

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
08:44:46
Comments

The night that the Dateline story was to air, it was replaced by the NBA playoffs. I was disappointed, hopefully I can get a VHS copy. I have been reading the experiences posted on your web site, there is unquestionably a common thread that runs through all of these experiences. Although I never have heard of any sexual abuse while I was a Witness, I did witness and complained about mental and physical abuse that was happening right in front of everybody's eyes in the Kingdom Hall. I saw children being smacked on the side of the head for falling asleep at evening meetings, dragged to the back of the Hall and hearing the child being beaten repeatedly. They were openly being victimized with nobody to help them because you are not to interfere with a parent disciplining his or her children. Don't get me wrong, there were times when I saw children that were clearly out of control and needed to be removed from the main hall so as to not be a disturbance. You could sense though, that the parents in these abusive cases seemed to get off of humiliating and smacking their children around, made a person wonder what happened when they got home. Although many would brag on how well behaved these children were, as time progressed almost without exception these same kids by the time they reached their 20's never stepped back in a Kingdom Hall again, any question why? I disassociated myself from the organization earlier this year after being a JW for 28 years, 25 of them as an active Witness. I feel that it is a shame that a place that claims to be a refuge and should be, ends up being a memory of harsh treatment and ignorance. Even though a person has never seen or heard of sexual abuse to children in the organization, doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, the chemistry is definitely there!

Cliff Moore camre@mchsi.com

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
11:03:29
Comments

To the one who signed “Your Brother” and posted the Watchtower's new molestation policy to let us know everything is now fixed, it's over and back to business as usual.

I have some questions:

Many of us had to deal with not just the elders, not just the circuit overseers, but also the Watchtower Society up close and personal on the sexual abuse issue. We got a glimpse behind the veneer and found it to be a very ugly experience.

It is like finding a very dirty kitchen at your favorite restaurant; you are going to be very leery of eating there again. Hearing that they finally got around to washing one pan will not make you feel much better.

So I have some questions:

1) What about the VICTIMS? Will the society have any consideration for the broken humanity they have left in the wake of their past mistakes? Will victims and their families, friends and supporters be left disfellowshipped, disassociated, inactive and still under the threat of silence? In what way will the congregations now act like the “good neighbor” of the Samaritan story?

2) If there are not two witnesses and the accused denies the charges to the elders and the victim wishes to report to the police will the society continue to use the accusation of slander to silence victims? This has not been addressed directly by the society. It is “your absolute right” is not the same, as you will continue to receive our support.

3) Will the pedophiles being repentant include agreeing to never contact the ones he'd hurt if that were what they wanted or needed in order to heal from the damage he caused them? (These words are those of Andrea in the story just above) Or will they continue to see him every week if they have the courage to go to the Kingdom Hall?

4) Will the victims and their families continue to hear talks on “Forgiveness” directed at them? Will they be allowed the dignity of human beings in deciding when and if they chose to forgive?

5) Will the victims have the right to discuss their terrible suffering with the friends in the hall? Will talks be given on the evils of coercing victims into silence and will each member understand their complicity in this crime of silence?

6) What about the elders who lacked “spiritual common sense” and ethics in so many of these cases and yet accused others of having that problem? Will those same mouths continue to deliver talks and give counsel? It does make a difference to the spiritual health of the congregation for... out of the hearts abundance the mouth speaks.

7) And if you expect me to get on with my life and forgive those involved in this ugly cover up I need a personal apology. I need to see acts of repentance from the elders, the Circuit Overseer and the Watchtower Society. I have read the Insight book on Repentance and Forgiveness and I believe this request is valid.

The restaurant is full everyone is eating their meal, many don't know and many others don't want to know that the kitchen is filthy. The kitchen staff is trying to silence us. They blame us for getting a glimpse inside that mess. Why don't they just clean the kitchen?

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
12:45:39
Comments

I was sexually molested by my mothers brother when I was 7. "HOMER YOUNG." He molested myself, my sister, and 2 female cousins. It was a hush hush operation and he was put on the plane shortly after the discovery. We were all members of the JW congregation in Fairbanks Alaska. Today I am 49 and I can't believe the way I am treated by my own family. When I realized what had happened, even my sister Pam told me that I would make anything up. She's too dumb to realize the truth. I don't speak to my family, I'm the black sheep because I stand up for myself. My so-called uncle was never prosecuted, just tucked away in California. He now has a wife, and children. I wonder if he has abused them as well? Alaska

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
13:36:36
Comments

Keep up the good work!! This site is needed, and has been of great value to so many. May God bless you and guide you in your endeavor to expose these evil cults for what they are....Well Done

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
13:45:11
Comments

contunier a faire ce bon travail car Jah est le Dieu de verite il est de votre cote bon courage

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
14:18:29
Comments

to all bragging about the real way wts and Jaws handle disfellowshipping....

the stories here...at the mouths of a MULTITUDE of witnesses....are about what is PRACTICED as opposed to what is PREACHED

i was threatened with disfellowshipping if I even reported the truth about the cover ups to another elder outside the committee....and the same for reporting to authorities

i used to think like you

until I was SHOWN differently...repeatedly

they would not listen to the several witnesses that were offered

they "didn't have to" they were "appointed by holy spirit"

and the threats of disfellowshipping were on the phoney grounds of "lying" and "apostasy" for not submitting to the infallibility of the committee

one knew the truth by what was reported to him by my daughter

he was silenced

another came to me in tears ...apologizing....cuz he knew the truth of the matter ...even without my daughter's testimony....he said he had to act and speak in unity with the committee or he would no longer be an elder....he was threatened too

telling us further lies...and quoting the society when you do it ...does nothing to restore our faith in you and your lying organization

just the opposite

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
15:05:14
Comments

So please/relieved to see your website. I write from England and have encountered similar. Including a lack of understanding and help for domestic violence - to my great harm and my children. Regarding the child sexual abuse, its the same in England. Perpetrators are left to roam. One even frequently and openly posed as a policeman in uniform and whilst on the ministry tried to abuse a child pretending to be from the police. I have read the BERRY case, it is outrageous. I too have left WT, I could not cope any longer with the lack of support and especially great lack of spiritual support. Even the Catholic Church are addressing this problem. WT ought to hand their heads in shame especially ANYONE that is in a congregation and making the conscious decision to ignore this. Where is your humanity and compassion for vulnerable children and where on earth is your sense of justice and also the protection of children. We are ALL responsible, individually in LAW and not only that but to GOD. Surely this must cross your mind. These matters have to be reported, as unpleasant as it might be for the individual, its nothing in comparison to what the child victims are suffering. Children are the future, if YOU don't tell, they will when they are older. Don't delay, report it TODAY. FROM, heilprakterin@blueyonder.co.uk 2nd JUNE 2002.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
16:00:05
Comments

TO AGAPE & PHILIA,

I was very touched by your stand and decision to share your story. I was also horrified by what you went through. Even though I was abused physically as a child in my home and sexually abused by my uncle(still a JW w/ wife and a daughter) I can not imagine what you or your daughters went through. I was shocked to read you are still an active JW. I was disfellowshipped at 15- I'm now 26 and couldn't find it in my heart or conscience to return. Please don't think that I'm saying you are wrong for staying a JW, I was just surprised. I remember enjoying the association with some in the cong. At times I run into those I've known since I was 4 or 5 and act as if they have seen a ghost. It hurts but I made a decision to stay DF'd and expect the reaction. Enough about me- You made mention of court and lawyers. Did you sue your ex? Or was he brought up on charges of any abuse- you or your children? If so what was the outcome? Is it still pending? I wasn't silent when my abuse happened, because my father caught it in the act. God only knows how far or how long it would have been before it stopped. But still nothing was done. In reference to it being hard for you to sleep- I can relate. Just the flash of his face in my dreams makes me not want, or not able to sleep. I told my mother that I don't blame her because she was being the "submissive wife." It took many years to come to that decision. I applaud you in removing such a horrible person from you and your children's lives!!!!! I hope you will heal emotionally, and hope the same for your children!!!! I wish you well and Jehovah will see your heart and I hope he brings you peace.

With true love,

Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
16:31:12
Comments

This article was printed in 1999 October in a college news letter called New Thinkers Newsletter from a former college student who is a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses Organization. This letter was verified with a phone discussion. Names and dates where deleted purposely to avoid legal action against New Thinkers Newsletter. The girl named J. was afraid of being shunned if this secret came out about her hall.

*** I remember not long ago in my hall , there was an incident that shocked everyone and no one said anything . It is my belief and still is, that everyone was afraid to speak up in fear of reprisals. A young man in the south area of Sacramento was found molesting young boys that he was in care of. The parent were very upset and went to the Elders of our hall to complain. It was a horrible scandal that literally shook everyone's pillars. I personally thought he was going to prison for his actions. The young mans parents begged the Elders not to turn him into the police and the young man cried and begged also. With pleading tears the Elders said they would see into the matter. To my knowledge the children's parent was about to inform the police but the Elders told her that it was unscriptural to call the law and that is was a matter for the hall to deal with not outside authorities. They gave the scripture about how it is wrong to sue one another in the same faith. Basically, I think they wanted to hush the matter so that reproach wouldn't fall on their congregation. The young man received a demotion and a public reproving. I was shocked, We are suppose to be in subjection to God's laws and to man's law. This was clearly breaking man's law not reporting the matter to the authorities. It was quietly put aside. One of the Elders in our hall gave a talk to the congregation about gossip and subtle threats about discussing things that were of a judicial matter. Fear instilled in the hearts kept everyone silent. This was the most horrible thing I have heard in years. The children's parent was dismayed at the whole situation and I asked why she didn't do it anyway and call the police, she said she was afraid of being accused of not obeying Gods words and being called an apostate. So the police were never called and the children will have to live with this ugly memory forever. The Elders swept it under the carpet and no one spoke openly about it again. Six months later M.S. the young man was given back his former position as a ministerial servant and declared he was repentant. This is why I wrote this letter to tell everyone, and to make things worse I just found out that the Organization will send him to New York as a Bethelite. I am sick to my stomach that he is being rewarded for his actions. J. of south Sacramento ***

This letter was published and distributed to the police and to all colleges campuses in northern California beside watch groups like Silentlambs. Good luck Bill.. New Thinkers Newsletter 2002

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
17:46:01
Comments

This site sees to be inspired by demons.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
18:42:47
Comments

Watchtower Society you wrote "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin .... At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter SHOULD (not must) stand good." (Deu 19:15) They says Matthew 18:16 supports their idea that "should" means always must, but it says "But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter MAY be established."

Watchtower fanatics, since when do SHOULD and MAY equal MUST? Does not the Bible say there is a time and place for everything? Don't Christ and the apostles say principles like mercy and love outweigh your Pharisaic, pro-pedophile love of laws and rules: Matthew 12:7! Stop trying to hide behind the Bible, hypocrites.

(Anyone who wants to can use what I say above freely at will.)

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
20:36:57
Comments

I was asked what has the JW establishment done to not earn respect. (It is so hard to hold back the digs.)

The Watchtower affiliate is given by the Watchtower multi-million, (Billion?) dollar printing press material that allows the faithful slave to think on a predetermined topic with a predetermined outcome. They misuse the Bible.

The Watchtower is selling salvation. Salvation is not for sell. It can not be bought. It can not be given. And most important... The Watchtower can not take salvation away! They misuse the free gift of God.

The Watchtower encourages and demands members to lie in order to achieve the ends of the Watchtower.

The Watchtower encourages and demands members to commit violence (Distortion of facts) and emotional distress on not just the ones that are labeled disfellowshipped but also their entire family. (That is so cruel.)

The Watchtower has infected its members to isolate themselves from the outside. Thus living in a bubble they are not able to function outside the inner circle sometimes for years.

You allow Rapists to escape atonement for their crime. Through your actions they escape justice.

You violate the ethics of love, trust, honor, promise, faith, justice, nobility, self, community, independence, freedom, loyalty, and piss me off.

You are the very definition of ignoble.

Jayson

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
20:38:59
Comments

I wish to thank you for this site.I have three brothers who are Jehovah's witnesses and I could never understand their ways ,This has given me better insight as to what I am dealing with.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
21:18:35
Comments

Someone said: "Remote User: Date: 18 May 2002 Time: 14:45:16 Comments I stumbled upon this site by accident, but after taking a look at some of the things you people are saying, it appears to me that you have all been overtaken by your emotions and you are trying to do everything in your powers to basically destroy all child molesters. What I mean by that is if you are or were one of JW's, then you're supposed to forgive everyone just as Christ forgave all of you. If a child molester is punished for his actions and tries to go back into his former religion, it wouldn't be loving or showing forgiveness to tell everyone in the world that the person is a child molester. Of course, it is something that everyone feels they should know, but how would you feel if someone told everyone else all the wrongdoing you have done in your life? You wouldn't like it, would you? In fact, you would probably tell that person that they are not showing love by respecting your private life. Child molestation is grouped in the same category as idolatry, fornication, etc. in the bible. So if you want to tell everyone if a person has committed the sin of child molestation, then shouldn't you also tell everyone if a person has committed idolatry or fornication? "

I say:

Being forgiven doesn't mean *not* being held accountable.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
21:21:27
Comments

I was raised a Witness, It was all I knew. I married a Witness & pioneered. When it came time to find a day care for my daughter for my part time work, of course I chose a sister, because I could not trust a worldly person. In 1989 when my daughter was 4 years old, after going to this sister's house for 1-1/2 years, I found that she was being abused. Come to find out that there were a total of 5 children in the same congregation (Chicago suburb) who were being abused by the same "group" of witnesses. It was satanic ritual abuse. Horrific crimes. Stuff you only see in horror movies. These perpetrators had been my friends. I had known them my whole life. I could not believe it myself at first. But we had 5 kids ages 4 - 8 all saying the same things happened to them. I had 5 witnesses, and the elders did nothing. I had so many elder meetings, each one a bigger disappointment than the one before. They kept telling me that "these things do not happen in Jehovah's organization" , "children lie"; "we must watch pornographic movies"; "the therapists are brainwashing the children". I finally realized after about a year that they were not going to do a thing to these people. I stopped going to meetings, and so did the other parents of the abused children. We were looked down upon when we were still going to meetings. People would stare at us and gossip about us. We heard gossip that the elders were spreading about us. Now, the perpetrators, 13 years later are all in good standing in the congregation. It makes my sick to think that they are still abusing kids. I know they haven't stopped. When the elders were sitting in my living room 13 years ago I told them it would be their kids next that would be the victims. That was a terrible thing to say, but how true? About 2 years ago I ran into one of those elders who had moved to Georgia. He walked up to me and all he said was that what happened to my daughter happened to his daughter in Georgia, then he walked away. It's sad that they could have prevented it but their pride and blinded eyes got in their way. I am no longer a witness. I chose to believe that these ignorant men, who allow this to go on, cannot have the truth. My daughter still sees her therapist. She was screwed up for a long time because of what they did to her. But now she is a wonderful strong young woman. I am very proud of her. I believe that something good always comes from bad, and her strength has come from their heinous crimes. The witnesses will get what is going to them. I've been waiting 13 years for that Dateline report, and all that is still yet to come. Bravo to Bill Bowen for having the strength and courage to stand up to these men and fight for what is right. KBT Chicago, IL

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
21:35:07
Comments

I've just been reading some of the posts here on the website condemning the website, Bill Bowen and all of us victims. How ignorant these people are. Ignorant because they do not know what kind of an organization that they are involved in. We are not picking on the organization because of a few sick people who abuse kids. We realize that every religion has a few bad seeds. It is the society's lack of enforcing what they preach that we are protesting. They write pretty letters, make pretty comments about their tough stand on sexual abuse. But get elders in a room, faced with the evidence and they do just the opposite of their words. Get New York on the phone and report to them directly, and you get the same run around. Who are the hypocrites here? Us...for standing up for ourselves and our children, or the "brothers" for saying one thing and doing another? Do not dare to throw stones at us, you have no idea what we have been through, and evidently you are still too ignorant to investigate and find out. Keep going to your meetings, have babies, leave them with other fellow brothers and by all means have a good time.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
21:54:51
Comments

As I read the comments from whom I assume are JW's I am trying so hard to come to grips with just how different we truly are. You will never be able to get into my head. To get me to transfer (slide) (shift) this subject. Forgiving is not for you elders to give. To a rape victim the real crime is the humiliation. You elders add to that humiliation. It is not the elders right to decide punishment. It is not elders right to be the law.

The power that you give to these men the elders, They are obviously totalitarians. That is so sad for you. That you would be willing to be their subjects. It is sad.

The only good thing that I can say that any JW has commented on is that it is not the law to stop the crime. It should be the law in all 50 States. It should be mandatory that rape be reported. I will do what I can to make it the Law.

I have not read where one JW, or the congregations, or the WT has said that it is sorry. Maybe I missed it, I hope so.

I have never heard a JW ever say they are sorry. Ever, for anything.

But, here I am saying that I am sorry. I am so very sorry to every victim that has been effected by these people and their wicked vision of the Bible. I am not a JW I did not hurt you or anyone. But I am a Man and a Father. I have a 3 month old baby girl. I would give my life to protect her. I would never, never put anything above protecting her. I will never abandon her. I would never blame her. I love her. I love her as my little angel. I wish you had a Father like me. Maybe I could not of stopped it from happening. But I know I would have been on your side. I know that my little girl will never be in the position of an elder telling her to forget it happened. That is so very sick. It is sadistic. I wish I could say more. I wish I could take your pain away. I have cried with you.

Jayson

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
22:40:16
Comments

When I was 4 years old I started getting abused by my parents best friend who was a witness and the time it went on until I was 11. He was later disfellowshipped. During that time period I was also abused by another young brother a babysitter, our neighbor another brother and at times Elder, and finally my uncle who has been an elder too. I was disfellowshipped ten years ago and have since confronted two of my abusers who cried and said how sorry they were. Well I find myself wanting to go back but cannot. I cannot allow myself to go to the meetings and assemblies and see those brothers who are in good standing still, they were only put on private reproof and had their privileges taken away, and pretend to be okay with this. If they only knew how much damage they truly did.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
22:47:59
Comments

In response to all that have been abused we know how easy is is for the Witnesses to cast stones. What happened to 'A little leaven ferments the whole loaf'. I shudder to think how "safe" I felt even though I knew many other things weren't right. To think that they feel a molester can repent sickens me, a pedophile is good at words that is how he gains the trust of a child. I have come to believe after over 18 years in the "truth"(what a laugh)most would cut off their nose to spite their face. They are just not willing to see anything, so busy are they grasping and clawing for paradise when they wouldn't know paradise if they woke up there tomorrow. I have seen family after family neglect their own children while busy going door to door to "save" others. All I know is my husband and I put our children FIRST and we were thought of as obstinate "not willing to follow Jehovah's direction" Well all I can say is my children LOVE me because I put them and my husband first in my life and ran screaming from an organization that tried to convince me I was wrong.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
22:55:01
Comments

We are happy that some one is finally doing something. Erik Larsen

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
23:12:26
Comments

I was born a 3rd generation JW. When I was 10-11 1/2, I was molested repeatedly by a member of my congregation. Some time after it happened, I went to my congregation's elders and informed them of it. They, in turn, asked the molester if there was any validity to my accusation, which he (surprisingly!) denied. The elders then came back and told me (at 13 years old, mind you) that I had misunderstood the whole incident. I was encouraged to forgive the person for the misunderstanding, and warned to be careful of what I said because I could suffer repercussions for being slanderous. I was told that to report this matter to the authorities would bring reproach on Jehovah's name. I later found out that several girls in my Kingdom Hall had been molested by this same person. Many of those girls had gone to the elders and told them of it. Many times these girls were told that the molester denied it, and that it was probably just a misunderstanding. My best friend was also molested by the same person in the same congregation. She went to the same elders and informed them of what had happened. They told her she had misunderstood the molester's intentions, and that the matter should be dealt with inside the organization. None of us saw any punishment come to our pedophile, spiritually, or legally. Some of you are Witnesses, some of you are not. I am not, but that is really neither here nor there. I believe this issue is one that has dramatically affected all of the survivors of this problem, Witness or not, and I am hoping that we can all come together in the common interest of preventing this from happening to more children. I am looking to hear from anyone who has had an experience similar to mine, or anyone who knows of an experience similar to mine. I am not looking to change anyone's religious beliefs, and I am not looking to change mine. I have a deep concern for all of you who have endured this problem in your own life and I am sure that if you can survive being abused, and then being doubly betrayed by being forced to watch your pedophile go unpunished (as are many of the cases) that you have the wherewithal to make your own decisions concerning your spirituality. Please respect my decisions as well. These people have committed CRIMES against us. They CAN be held accountable. Whether or not you feel compelled to respond to me, everyone who has suffered as a child, particularly in an instance like mine, you are in my thoughts and prayers. Consider me a sister. Heidi jhkoval@earthlink.net

Remote User:
Date:
02 Jun 2002
Time:
23:40:45
Comments

Response to the poster who wrote:

"IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTION PLEASE GO TO ONE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND ASK THEM THE QUESTION SO THEY CAN EXPLAIN"

And what it the authority of their "explanation?"These people, no matter what they will tell you at the door...use only their own translation of the Bible, called the New World Translation. They have made up their own Bible to reflect their twisted beliefs. This can be verified easily by comparing most any verse referring to the Deity of Christ. I would not expect to receive any kind of TRUTH from anyone quoting scripture from this so-called Bible. God Bless you Bill and God bless the victims.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
00:42:29
Comments

What REALLY frightens me is that although JW's claim that they and their God-directed organization via the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45-47 are truly Jehovah's servants of righteousness they can say bulls**t like this: Headquarters Receptionist: (On phone) Good afternoon, Legal Department.

LARSON: (Voiceover) Bowen calls seeking advice how to handle a suspected molestation case involving a young girl and her father. Instead of being told to report it to the police, Bowen is told to confront the suspected abuser.

(New York City; Bowen talking on phone)

Headquarters #2: (On phone) You just ask him again, `Now is there anything to this?' If he says `No,' then I would walk away from it.

Mr. BOWEN: (On phone) Yep.

Headquarters #2: (On phone) Leave it for Jehovah. He'll bring it out.

Mr. BOWEN: (On phone) Yep.

Headquarters #2: (On phone) But don't get yourself in a jam.<-------------WHAT KIND OF "GODLY" ANSWER IS THAT??? AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, WHAT WOULD JEHOVAH HIMSELF THINK OF HIS oh-so-special SERVANTS THEN?! JEHOVAH (not the WT who thinks they take the place of Jehovah) would understand that if a child abuser MIGHT be present in his house of worship that SOMETHING a decisive action needs to be taken, not just to say aloud "wait on Jehovah" and then to ask the creep whether he did it, duh, of course he would say "no" RESOUNDINGLY!!!!!! (and another point, WHY IN HECK WOULD A CHILD MOLESTER CONFESS to his deeds, when that could only mean "curtains" for him/her??????? (sarcastic tone): Brother(Elder)Tattletale walks up to Brother Guilty As Sin after the "uplifting and refreshing" Watchtower study at the Kingdom Hall. He whispers: "You know Brother, there has been accusations circling the congregation that have come to the attention of the elders. Accusations of um, how can I put it, a SEXUAL nature, loose conduct...it has been brought to our attention that while out in the field you were with the younger sisters and on a certain occasion, you inappropriately "touched" the girl. Is this true, Brother?" Brother Guilty As Sin: "Gee come to think of it, Brother Tattletale, I DID rape Sister Innocent-5-Year Old and she did try to scream and protest. I think her brother saw us but can't be sure....well I will soon repent to Jehovah and the congregation should now be allowed to hear of my sticky situation (no pun intended!) and I will gladly resign from my special position as Microphone Handler and Watchtower Study conductor....I thank you graciously for exposing me and telling all the brothers about it. Surely Jehovah will understand and because of wonderful brothers like yourself, we will now be blessed with His mercifulness."

Come on! Now no child molester, no matter how much they want to save the now-fragile "face" (reputationally speaking) of the Watchtower will confess if approached with a question like that of guilt or innocence. So, like the all-knowing Bethel brothers say: just ask whether they did it, if not, leave it alone to fester and make more brothers and sisters suffer, don't get YOURSELF caught up in it, and just sit back and pray, wait on God. Let child molesters go undeterred and just trust what he says, after all, they're in the only REAL "brotherhood" watched over by God....

Um, Jehovah's Witnesses believe THIS is the way of Jesus and His Father and that they possess the only TRUE religion?????????? Give me an Aleve and a BREAK!!!! I want to pose a question to you using a quote from the movie A Few Good Men. the movie title represents what real followers of God, NOT YOU AND YOUR TWISTED and UNSCRIPTURAL POLICY, are and not to forget the silentlambs of JW policy. If you can answer: I, along with all other people with inquiring minds want to know, the TRUTH? Can YOU handle the TRUTH? Do YOU even WANT to ACKNOWLEDGE the "TRUTH" that you teach --which is mostly half-truths and outright lies all twisted nicely to make them deceiving to millions of ears--is NOT (NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY) by any chance Jehovah's DEFINITION of TRUTH? CAN YOU HANDLE IT? Me, and countless others all have our eyes and ears ON YOU. as the saying goes-->"Believe it please, please believe it."

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
01:36:49
Comments

To all those who rage. I feel it too. But to rage at the JW's is like reasoning with a tree.

It is the people who do not know what these JW people's true nature that are in danger. Tell others! Tell them to look here. If they want to ask a JW that is OK. But they should read up on mind control first. They need an understanding of propaganda in all its dirty little forms. If the WT path is still what they want then that is what they will have. However they deserve all the facts. I don't need to ask but how many JW sites are willing to show both or all sides? From other Church's views? How much JW literature shows the other sides? I already know none. I have been told if I will not go to JW meetings then I have no right to talk. But will they go to any other Church? No they will not. Do they go to the Catholic's for information. No they do not. But they will attack them here and everywhere. I want to believe that there are good God feeling people in the JW camp. But the ones that I have had in my life love their WT as a god. They pay "Jehovah" lip service but their actions show what is in their hearts. I know that hurts but it is true.

(I am not defending the Catholics, just used them to make a point.)

I hope the media will keep up on this!

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
02:29:51
Comments

Evidence of a person's mind being controlled is that their answers or replies are exactly the same for every opposition presented, contradiction revealed or problem to solve. The ability to critically think,and use this process of thinking is disabled so that the mind can be controlled. I call it being remote controlled and the person is "remote" in real emotion, compassion and just plain common sense; remote as in can't be reached. Remote controlled just like the TV. WTS has the remote control.

The JW interchangeably use Jehovah/WTS - they do not distinguish Jehovah as being separate from the WTS. After reading "Crisis of Conscience" and how the "governing body" decides the fate of people with cruelty, injustice and manipulation I became so ashamed how I had been deceived to trust them.

You have to read the book to understand how deep the deception really is and the untrustworthiness of their decisions. It is a crime of murder what they did to the brothers in Africa while they accommodated the brothers in Mexico for the same exact "issue." Tragic and a crime. Jim Jones-ish.

I am grateful to Jehovah, not the WTS, for the Truth. WTS may be a rock crying out only. I am grateful that someone knocked on my door - but the way I have been treated, lied about, gossiped, uncared for by them has been a stumble to say the least. Not to mention the lack of love towards others. Lack of love? How about hatefulness.

I pray for God's Kingdom to come to end this misery. I keep the 10 commandments and I leave it in God's hands my fate, your fate at Armageddon. No body knows when it will come or who will be saved.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
03:04:25
Comments

Hi again,

Response to June 2,02 time 21:18:35. Forgiveness for imperfections is what the bible recommends but what about more serious behaviors? The example of King Saul shows that Jehovah does not extend forgiveness forever. He told King Saul "to obey is better than a sacrifice." THERE HAD TO BE "WORKS BEFITTING REPENTANCE".

All you think about is how the offender feels and how he would not want what he did known. Everything you say if about the offender. You forget who really is the victim here. THE CHILD!!! The pedophile's reputation was wrecked the moment he sexually abused a child. It was his behavior that started it not the victim. THE PEDOPHILE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES BEFORE HE DID THE CRIME!!! The bible tells us to "let no one suffer as a thief."

Your comments tell a lot where your sympathies lie. Are you an offender? In my experience this is a good starting place, to identify those that are pedophiles(by who they defend;where their sympathies lie, etc!!)DJB

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
07:30:43
Comments

dear "this site sees (sic) to be inspired by demons"

THANK YOU

the abusive step mother of my daughter told everyone the same thing about her

some of the elders parroted her

the others let the slander go unchecked...while threatening to take judicial action if i, or the children of my household took action against the terrorist abuse

for the naive JWs who deny such things happen

look at the words of your brothers/sisters in this Guestbook!

if there are any demons involved....it is those who destroy the lives of children and defend it by such hatefulness

THANK YOU for showing your true colors

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
07:41:38
Comments

When reading this website my exclamation was "Oh my God!" I thought I was one of few that experienced physical abuse at the hands of a spouse and was actually disfellowshipped for being a victim. I thought it was only a few congregations here in North East Ohio that had a problem with elders not listening to victims. My ex-husband remains a member in good standing after having moved to Pierre, SD. I see now this problem of abusers, be it physical, sexual, or verbal, being protected within the religion is nationwide if not worldwide. All of us victims need to speak out to help prevent detestation in the lives of future victims. Kit Nix kit@kitty.org

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
09:43:33
Comments

You people are so bad. Continue to fight Judas.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
10:18:43
Comments

This website and those behind it are not the answer.

They claim that the problem is that the Elders and other Witnesses do not report complaints to the police.

But the police are part of Satan's element. They are motivated by job performance reviews and politics, the same with prosecutors. They don't care.

Not to mention the fact that police, prosecutors, judges and juries do more to trample the constitution and violate our rights than the El Quida have done.

The police are not the answer.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
10:25:27
Comments

The answer is simple. Consider the situation with the Catholics. Why are priests even around children. They shouldn't be.

If the complaints are about Witnesses? Why is anyone not the parent around a child.

So people, stop complaining and don't let your children be around anyone but the parents.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
11:25:37
Comments

Sharing your site with others. Billy Ray Ponds billyray@carolina.rr.com

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
12:13:06
Comments

Hello to all . I was referred here by my sister . It is awesome to see people come together from all over who have been affected by JW"S . I was abused and haunted for along time . I thank God he gave his only son JESUS CHRIST for me ! So that I could be free today . Push4jesus21@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
12:15:07
Comments

This site is ridiculous because Bowen complains that the Society wants the elders to confront the accused. But Bowen thinks the answer is to call the police.

What will the police do? Question the accused and the accuser. And then arrest and file charges against the accused and then have a trial. At trial the accuser will accuse the accused. The jury will believe the accuser and the person will get convicted.

I call that injustice.

One person's word against another. Get some evidence. Mini cam, tape recorder.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
12:19:20
Comments

From Righteousness:

When my wife's younger sisters were early teenagers, they accused their parents of physical abuse. My wife knows that the accusations were false. We don't believe every accusation.

The fact is that as many people that you can claim to have been abused, as many people have been falsely accused.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
12:52:03
Comments

I see that the WT is considering some changes to policy. (Minor changes) If at a minimum all changes do not take place then:

"Social reform is the desperate decision to remove the corns of a person dying of cancer."

Karl Kraus

"A Pharisee is a man who prays publicly and preys privately."

Don Marquis

"I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet I assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to lighten his load by all possible means-except by getting off his back."

Leo Tolstoy

"How many crimes merely because their authors could not admit being wrong!"

Albert Camus

"The Multitude of Offenders is their Protection."

Tomas Fuller

"It is the same thing to do a thing as not to prohibit it when it is your power."

Old Latin Proverb

To all of us

"What we all need to do is return to the Bible afresh-not going to it to prove a point, but seeing what it says as the Holy Sprit opens our eyes."

Billy Gram

"Freedom of speech and freedom of action is useless without freedom to think."

Bergen Evans

Now I will go the Book for that is what some will only look to for direction.

Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for what ever a man sows, that also shall he reap.

Galatians 6:7 (In this life OR the next)

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil."

Isaiah 5:20 (Those who will lie for you will lie against you.)

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
14:19:05
Comments

Hi this is the first time I've checked out your website.The computer I'm using doesn't go to all the sites . I would not say I was as badly hurt as some. But I had similar problems.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
14:41:07
Comments

INJUSTICE YOU KNOW WHAT INJUSTICE IS YOU PEOPLE THAT COME ON HERE AND SAY ITS INJUSTICE FOR THE ABUSER TO BE ACCUSED ITS WHEN YOU ARE TELLING THE TRUTH AND GOD KNOWS YOU ARE AND THE SYSTEM LETS YOU DOWN AND LETS THE PERPETRATOR GO FREE LIKE IN MY CASE THAT'S WHAT IS INJUSTICE ONLY TO BE PUT BACK WITH MY ABUSER TO BE HURT AGAIN AND AGAIN BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T CATCH HIM IT WAS MY TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE AFTER RUNNING AWAY FROM HOME THAT FINALLY OPENED THE EYES OF THE COURT SYSTEM THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG HERE

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
14:42:06
Comments

INJUSTICE YOU KNOW WHAT INJUSTICE IS YOU PEOPLE THAT COME ON HERE AND SAY ITS INJUSTICE FOR THE ABUSER TO BE ACCUSED ITS WHEN YOU ARE TELLING THE TRUTH AND GOD KNOWS YOU ARE AND THE SYSTEM LETS YOU DOWN AND LETS THE PERPETRATOR GO FREE LIKE IN MY CASE THAT'S WHAT IS INJUSTICE ONLY TO BE PUT BACK WITH MY ABUSER TO BE HURT AGAIN AND AGAIN BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T CATCH HIM IT WAS MY TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE AFTER RUNNING AWAY FROM HOME THAT FINALLY OPENED THE EYES OF THE COURT SYSTEM THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG HERE

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
14:42:13
Comments

INJUSTICE YOU KNOW WHAT INJUSTICE IS YOU PEOPLE THAT COME ON HERE AND SAY ITS INJUSTICE FOR THE ABUSER TO BE ACCUSED ITS WHEN YOU ARE TELLING THE TRUTH AND GOD KNOWS YOU ARE AND THE SYSTEM LETS YOU DOWN AND LETS THE PERPETRATOR GO FREE LIKE IN MY CASE THAT'S WHAT IS INJUSTICE ONLY TO BE PUT BACK WITH MY ABUSER TO BE HURT AGAIN AND AGAIN BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T CATCH HIM IT WAS MY TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE AFTER RUNNING AWAY FROM HOME THAT FINALLY OPENED THE EYES OF THE COURT SYSTEM THAT SOMETHING WAS WRONG HERE

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
15:42:20
Comments

For sexual offenders' registries, to look up someone you may suspect in your congregation of being an offender:

www.soc-um.org/register.html

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
16:21:08
Comments

To those who say that they have been physically or sexually abuse: How is that a congregational issue?

It's not. If you want to report it to the police, do that

But this is not a congregational issue.

What can the elders do about anything? Disfellowship someone? That can't do anything. It's not their place.

Not that I'm for or against, I just don't like the complainers who do nothing but complain about the past.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
16:28:31
Comments

To: It's not a congregation issue...

It's about being a shepherd and not a wolf. As I said responsibility and sensibility are not in the JW vocabulary, nor their understanding. Now is the time cast light on the darkness and the secrets they protect. That they covet.

BILLISRIGHT@AOL.COM

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
16:30:01
Comments

I wouldn't report to the police even if I saw someone kill someone. The police are the real criminals, wolves in sheep's clothing. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it Bowen.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
17:09:34
Comments

To those who say that they have been physically or sexually abuse: How is that a congregational issue?

It's not. If you want to report it to the police, do that

But this is not a congregational issue.

What can the elders do about anything? Disfellowship someone? That can't do anything. It's not their place.

Not that I'm for or against, I just don't like the complainers who do nothing but complain about the past.

APPARENTLY YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN SEXUALLY ABUSED TO SAY THAT FIRST OF ALL IT IS THE RIGHT OF EVERY PARENT TO KNOW THAT THERE IS A CHILD MOLESTER IN THE CONGREGATION IF I HAD A CHILD I WOULD NOT LEAVE THEM ANY WHERE NEAR A KNOWN CHILD OFFENDER AND BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR FUCKING MOUTH AGAIN ABOUT US COMPLAINING WALK IN OUR SHOES PENNY

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
18:11:22
Comments

Hi,Just wanted to stop by as it was Highly recommended by many on the Yahoo chat room of JW's..I too was abused "in the Hall" as were many, and contrary to many's belief, I have mentioned it prior to the "scandal on dateline". I pray something good comes from all of this, like some little lambs are spared from the horrid abuse that is allowed to go on in the congregations nationwide..Thanks for listening, K

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
21:33:24
Comments

to the jerks who report it is wrong to go to the police because they are from Satan and wolves in sheep's clothing...

YOU OFFER MORE PROOF THAN DATELINE ABOUT JW ATTITUDES THANKS FOR PROVING TO THE WORLD WHAT ASSES YOU ARE

if you have even read a fraction of the reports of all who suffered physical, sexual and emotional abuse from pedophiles, along emotional and spiritual abuse from elders and the society .... tell me how THEY are not the ones from the 'devil's world' ... 'wolves in sheep's covering' .... even WT teachings are to respect cops ... now you point out their wrongs JUST to deflect from the atrocities committed by JWs in god's name? if we have a right to point out wrongs done by the police....why do you think we don't have the right to do the same to JWs who hold themselves up to a higher standard?

i realize I am wasting my breath with the likes of you ... but had to get it off my chest

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
21:54:22
Comments

Hi folks, Please visit my other venture I am involved with.

http://www.gayxjw.org

Thanks William Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
22:18:22
Comments

What do I think about this site.

To Bill:

I am confused as too what is meant by neutrality with the WT doctrine and/or policy. Is there a difference? I thought that their doctrine was policy and policy is their doctrine. Am I wrong? I hope I don't appear to goat you. Maybe it doesn't matter. I don't see the middle ground.

To a JW Elder:

You asked me to go to your site to see your side. Is your side not what has been posted here? Do the sites you ask me to go to have an area for feedback? The Dateline JW link had information. What I got from that is the JW stance is-This is an age old problem. The Romans did it, and infanticide. And something about 4000 years ago where I trailed off. It said nothing about your way of handling this issue. There was nothing said by victims of rape. There was no apology for anyone acting on your authority that covered up or committed rape. I looked for a feedback area and it said you do not do direct feedback. If I want a "Bible-study" or someone to call on me to fill out an application. Did I not get it right? What is different now? I am skeptic because so much of your dogma is one sided. That would be not so bad but every other faith is ravaged for every mistake they have ever made while you dismiss everything ever done by you as a non issue. Am I wrong?

To people who think they are wasting breath. (You mean your fingertips:)

I am listening. Your comments and thoughts matter to me. I am working hard to find some meaningful positive comments about JW's (Obviously I am not one) but I don't have them yet.

Comment private you want. I will try to not cast a bad light who does not deserve it.

BILLISRIGHT@AOL.COM

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
22:20:57
Comments

If you people realize it's not just in any religion it's everywhere it could be a friend a neighbor or even a family member and these disgusting people know which families to target that's why you people should not trust your children with anyone especially now a days it's getting worse and worse So people wake up and start watching your children right and don't just trust any one this world has got so polluted with so many awful things and if it continues it's just gonna keep on getting worse.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
22:48:19
Comments

TO>>> Remote User: Date: 03 Jun 2002 Time: 21:54:22 Do you realize there are such things as slander (in the legal sense) and Bill has a fantastic lawyer? Do you realize misrepresenting yourself as Bill could get you in lots of trouble? Think you're totally Anonymous? Ever heard of an IP address? Believe me you have one

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
22:54:15
Comments

I am a former Jehovah's witness. My father is an elder and my mother is active. I now realize being raise in the organization how hush hush things are being kept for a long time I thought I was in a perfect organization and no one could tell me different. It was hard for me accept the real truth and it took me years to desensitize myself. I still find myself defending something I don't believe in it not really my fault. You want to believe a perfect organization exist. But the real truth is what lies behind closed doors.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
23:05:22
Comments

The most ignorant people on earth, are Jehovah Witness teenagers. I like to chew them up and spit them out. A cowardly lot. They like to post false accusations (Mr.Bowen being gay) and hate(calling people apostates), but don't leave an e-mail address. Cowards who dismiss the sensitive nature of the issue of pedophilia. Cowards who post their drivel in "hit and run" fashion, only to persecute the victims and survivors of pedophilia.

That's why they sit at home with no life and bash sites like these. It's because of their ignorance. I laugh. Laugh at them when I read their "waste of space" posts. What losers.

If these are adults making these posts, all the worse. They are much more delicious to chew up and spit out.

People of a "small mind"...People who are cowards. I don't know whether to pity them, or continue to laugh at their examples of low intelligence.

These kids can't even "flame" properly. No wonder they just sit in their school rooms in silence, as the class waits for their heads to spin in 360 degree circles.

Come to me, you little ignorant fools, so that you may learn what the "real world" is like. I'll be waiting.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/

D8TA@msn.com

Remote User:
Date:
03 Jun 2002
Time:
23:41:00
Comments

While silentlambs supports all JW victims of abuse we have no affiliations with other websites.

silentlambs

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
00:11:58
Comments

The result of the airing of the Dateline program has been very positive. Dateline program will no doubt air again in reruns and may get further coverage soon.

There have been many mixed emotions as a result of this program. I have received about 700 emails that range from around 100 who are angry and insulted Jehovah's Witnesses who think I am an apostate or a tool of Satan, some that have threatened me personally, to the majority who are very appreciative of the program. It is interesting to note of all emails received only two speak of child molestation matters being handled properly. I have over three hundred new stories of absolute atrocities committed against children in various congregations. I also have had around forty new pedophile survey's filled out with at least 12 abuse survivors starting the process of filing charges against their JW molesters. There have been around 250 telephone calls from concerned Jehovah's Witnesses across the country.

It is interesting when silentlambs hits WT with strong evidence a wave of virus emails are sent to the editor of silentlambs. Well it appears we must have hit the truth pretty good as we have received close to 300 in the last four days.

The recent letter read to all congregations to circumvent the Dateline airing has angered many abuse survivors in the organization. They express it is a whitewash of old policy, once again leaving the victims in harm's way. A sister in California commented, “How dare they arrogantly ignore the protection of children and pat themselves on the back for doing nothing.” One brother in Florida finished his student talk and stated, “I will never set foot in a Kingdom Hall again till the Governing Body changes their policy to protect children.” He then walked out. In another congregation in Tennessee, as the letter was being read an elder of over 40 years took his Kingdom Hall keys off the ring and walked back to give them to the PO. After the meeting when asked why, the elder stated, “I can no longer serve or support the policy on molestation stated in that letter.” Several individuals have expressed the desire to pursue the injustice committed against them by the way the home office handled their abuse by going to the courts and filing legal action as a result blatant disregard for victims offered in the letter read to all Jehovah's Witnesses in the USA.

As Circuit Overseers make their rounds they are instructing elders if they do not follow instructions to the letter if lawsuits are filed local elders will be on their own. This comes as a further menacing threat to brothers whose conscience might move them to report suspected abuse in non-reporting States, but are then threatened into silence by WT Legal.

Several letters are being written to home office to require the Service Department to remove several men currently serving as elders or ministerial servants who survivors say molested them. If Service and Legal Departments fail to act the survivors say are going public with matters.

In the telephone calls made since Dateline there have been reports of children being molested at Kingdoms Halls, in the door to door work of Jehovah's Witnesses, at conventions, building projects, and even at the home office in Brooklyn New York. Time and again abuse survivors were threatened with disfellowshipping if they spoke out to anyone on the matter.

Personally, the judicial committee tried to set up a meeting with a 24 hour notice. I was able to notify them in writing to postpone the meeting at a set future date. That date was rejected and they tried to move the meeting to the middle of the week to make it more difficult for my witnesses to be able to testify in my behalf. I am currently requesting a more agreeable date to those who are traveling.

silentlambs

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
02:36:32
Comments

I was not aware you would display my comments. I am now receiving innumerable letters from people. Please remove my comments from you site. Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
02:49:50
Comments

Comments in a Guest Book are always displayed! Didn't you know that? That's one of the nicest thing of a Guestbook!!;-)

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
02:58:05
Comments

The waiting on Jehovah is over. He waited and waited for the "governing body" to boldly take the bull by the horns with outrage against this violent act upon children and be absolutely open about absolutely no tolerance for pedophiles within JEHOVAH'S CONGREGATIONS. The silentlambs waited and waited on Jehovah and Jehovah was patient with the WTS and waited for them to do something. The prayers of many many people I am certain have been answered.

Jehovah used his spirit to move these people into action. WTS and anyone who proclaims to be a witness of Jehovah and NOW can't accept the action that Jehovah has taken through the innocent and the outrage of their supporters might be in good standing with the WTS but that does not mean Jehovah finds them a "good" witness or good for anything.

To shun a moral obligation out of fear of being shunned is immoral. To shun a moral obligation out of fear is immoral. To shun a moral obligation for Jehovah's sake is apostasy! And to do this as an obligation to Jehovah is absolutely outrageous. A Broken spirit is better than sacrifice the children to save face. Anyone should know that.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
03:05:32
Comments

" The fact is that as many people that you can claim to have been abused, as many people have been falsely accused."

This is all the more reason to turn the matter over to trained professionals in the authorities, not to dressed up janitors and window washers.

Someone else asked why go to the elders at all? In JayDubdum, all are encouraged to turn to the elders for most anything. Subjection to them is mandated and they are expected to intercede and handle matters properly. Not everything can be settled and handled by reading a few scriptures. That is why God set up Superior Authorities. Yes, even the Watchtower teaches that God set them up. So, why does the Watchtower circumvent those authorities?

Lew; lawaters3@earthlink.net ; aka: DakotaRed

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
03:42:57
Comments

To the witness or person who decided to become a false witness. (falsifying who you are)Think about what it was like for Jesus as the Pharisees tried so desperately, pathetically, to discredit him.

That rush you get when you lie. One day you will regret it. What Bill has created here is very noble. He is protecting our children, even people like myself who are not WT. He is an answer to my prayers. Literally. I have been praying for the Jehovah's Witnesses. That they are shown what they look like in a mirror.

Do any of you know what an "Authority Personality" is? The post that stated the irrational behavior of JW teens. That person described what one is like in the making.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
06:13:31
Comments

Food for thought...

If people will lie for you they will lie about you.

With the JW's it has been my experience that no point of view is of any substance accept theirs. Even if you have proof of what ever the issue is, even if you have witnesses. If you are DF'd or a family member of one, or an outsider, or it is not in the favor of the Congregation then your testimony is not even given a second of thought. You are told to get over it, or blown off. In the old Soviet world there were two types of information one was bourgeois propaganda that equaled lies. It came from the likes of VOA (Voice of America) or a dissident to the Communist party. (I.e. anything not from the communist party) If you were found a dissident you were done for. So people kept their mouth shut and their eyes closed. Many people suffered. The other was communist propaganda that was anything that benefited the communist cause, or was in the communist favor because it favored socialism. A communist lie was even better than a bourgeois truth because anything that the other side said or did had to be a lie.

It is my experience that the WT and the Elders that try to gavel the law have become wayward totalitarians in nature and practice. I would love to see the sheep realize that they are the power. The WT is powerless without the control that the sheep surrender to it. I pray that one-day the sheep become less afraid of the outside world. It's not so scary outside. It is not always evil if you do not look for everything bad. Look for the bad and you will find it. Look for the good in all things and it changes your life. You become free. Free from bias. Free from fear. Free from being a cynic, which is person whose spirit is a prisoner in his or her own mind.

In a word....Peace finds you.

Maybe that is a pipedream. But it is my pipedream.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
06:20:43
Comments

I have noticed that there is no site for people that are the survivors of people who were never JW but married one that was or became Disfellowshipped. As an outsider there really is no greater pain than watching someone you love more than anything in the world be stomped into dust by the very people who claim to be so loving. We are the true objective observers.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
11:19:51
Comments

I am deeply moved by your excellent coverage and compassion in pursuing this matter. As an ex-JW, disfellowshipped for what they called "rebellion" in disagreeing with their doctrines, I can recognize the truth in what is presented here. I am now 65. My grandfather, who claimed to be of the remnant, also sexually abused his daughter, but at that time, over 60 years ago nothing was told. My cousin just recently told me that her mother had confessed this before she died several years ago.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
11:48:50
Comments

I think that all you guys are saying is all lies. You guys are just saying that because the Catholics are in lots of trouble. You guys are all full of it. I been raise being a Jehovah Witness and I've never had to hear any of these cases and I don't think I will ever hear anything like that. I think that you guy should make sure what you guy are saying because you guys are putting Jehovah's name in a bad reputation. I hope Jehovah can forgive you for what you guys are saying about him and his organization. I hope you guys will think about it a little more about putting Jehovah's name in a other peoples mouth as in a bad way.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
12:35:04
Comments

My daughter was abused by one of the members of the watchtower she started to speak out when she turned about 10 years old. I got out of the organization because I wasn't happy there no more. They kept silent about many things and didn't let me know till it was too late. I found out that this so call brother abused many other kids, but because he was a witness no one took action. epubill@msn.com

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
14:04:58
Comments

I think that all you guys are saying is all lies. You guys are just saying that because the Catholics are in lots of trouble. You guys are all full of it. I been raise being a Jehovah Witness and I've never had to hear any of these cases and I don't think I will ever hear anything like that. I think that you guy should make sure what you guy are saying because you guys are putting Jehovah's name in a bad reputation. I hope Jehovah can forgive you for what you guys are saying about him and his organization. I hope you guys will think about it a little more about putting Jehovah's name in a other peoples mouth as in a bad way

HEY PROVE I AM LYING PROVE IT AN I WILL PROVE I AM NOT I HAVE 20 YRS OF THERAPY TO PROVE I AM NOT LYING YOU BASTARD IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SHUT UP YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW THE VICTIMS ARE TOLD TO SHUT UP NEVER TELL AND ARE THREATENED IF YOU THINK SEXUAL ABUSE DOEST HAPPEN IN THE JW'S CHURCH YOU ARE IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING PENNY

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
14:34:31
Comments

I am so grateful that I never really became interested in the Org. It's such a shame how they can turn good people into bad ones, such as the person above as well as so many others. They turn innocent people into Satan's servants so well that most people don't even know what's happening to them 'til it's too late.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
14:44:58
Comments

When I was ten I was molested by my brother-in-law, a ministerial servant in the congregation. This went on for three years until my sister asked me point blank if he was doing some thing to me. In no time at all a committee was formed and he admitted to the abuse and was removed from all privileges. I remember him asking me if my parents would put him in jail. My mother and my father, presiding overseer/elder since he was 20, never mentioned one word to me about what happened and the subject was forbidden to be mentioned. I have since left the organization after realizing that their "mark of true Christianity is true love" is so far from the truth and for other various reasons. I have moved on though. Although the molestation is a sick and disgusting memory, what hurts me the most is that my parents did not stand up for me - they have never even said that they are sorry it happened and to this day refuse to even believe it happened, even though the molester admitted to it and has had other situations occur in the congregations elsewhere! Note: He has NEVER been charged with the legal system and I can guarantee this is going to continue on. I'd like to know what the statute of limitations are in cases like this with a minor and if I can get my congregation records.

PW mwynn1@worldnet.att.net

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
15:25:17
Comments

Thanks for including the dateline show on your website because I missed it and was very interested to see how it went. Cristine

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
15:44:19
Comments

Where do I go to read Barbara Anderson's story?

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
15:51:36
Comments

I am a former elder who had been removed from that privilege some years ago when my wife was having problems as a result of her emotional abuse at the hands of her father who was an elder at the time she was growing up. I am currently serving again as a Ministerial Servant in good standing. When I was an elder I sat in on my wife's judicial meetings (as is required) and served on many judicial committees, several of which dealt with abuse victims/survivor's. I say in all sincerity how deeply I feel for all such ones when I read their stories. It pains me greatly to see this evil in the Christian congregation. Let me state, again in all sincerity, that neither my wife nor any of the others I dealt with were told to ‘keep quiet.' Indeed, we were encouraged to report my father-in-law to his congregation elders for judicial review. As elders, we often discussed how abused ones needed help because we knew that they were scarred emotionally and spiritually and that these horrid memories will *always* resurface in terms of promiscuity, violence (to self or others), drug use or in the perpetuation of these behaviors on the next generation. And we knew and discussed this 10 years ago!

The body of elders I served with at that time made every effort to listen compassionately and non-“judgmentally” as people told their stories. We *never* assumed they were lying! Indeed, one of the points Jaws like to make with people is ‘does this have the ring of Truth?' And every one of the sufferers told stories that had the ring of Truth. Yes, if there was no other evidence or second witness or confession, as elders we could do nothing more except keep sealed records on file of what happened. In a number of cases the perpetrator committed the same crime again and because this was the second incident of the same type of sin, we could disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer. According to Watchtower Society guidelines it does *not* have to be two witnesses to the same event. At the very least, if the perpetrator continued to deny the second set of allegations, we could disfellowship them as an unrepentant liar.

If State laws require reporting, conscientious elders report to the authorities. Because most elders are not current on local law as well as for other reasons, elders are to report abuse to the Watchtower's Legal Department for review and advice. Please keep in mind that only 16 states require this. Other states require that we do *not* report, citing “ecclesiastical privilege.”

It also pains me to read how many long-time witnesses have engaged the services of attorneys when dealing with either their local congregations or with the Watchtower Society's headquarters. They have forgotten the scripture at 1 Corinthians 6:7 which says “Really, then, it means altogether a defeat for YOU that YOU are having lawsuits with one another. Why do YOU not rather let yourselves be wronged?” This is God's Word speaking to us. Yes, what happened to many at the hands of supposed Witnesses is an unspeakable crime – against God and humanity, but loyal Jaws endeavor to follow scripture in *all* things, even when it is painful to do so.

Keep in mind also that Jehovah does allow tests of loyalty at the hands of Satan in order to ‘sift us.' To the victims/survivors: Jehovah is not to blame and will certainly comfort all in need. But we must maintain our loyalty! To the rest of us: Don't be swept overboard by any sensationalizing of events. Let us not lose our faith because of news reports or by what we may read online from disgruntled former believers.

"Gadol"

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
16:06:38
Comments

Gadol: I'm sure you consider yourself compassionate and reasonable, but I find myself shaking my head. You had reports of a child abuser in your midst, those reports had the 'ring of truth', then you sealed them up and did nothing more. You cite Society rules. Predictably, it happened again and aha! now you can do something. So, just how guilty do you feel about those 'second' cases? What could you have done to protect those other innocent children? How many children outside of the organization were victimized when you could have helped? Did your self-righteousness make it unnecessary to even consider that you may be misapplying the two-witness rule? Is it even possible that you could do something to protect other children even if you don't have multiple witnesses? Is your self-righteousness enough to ward off the pangs of guilt? You're the problem.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
16:33:18
Comments

I was sent a virus when I left my e-mail here. I'm sure it was some "angry witness". Just so you know, just as we were smart enough to leave an ungodly child abusing organization. We also are intelligent enough to spot a virus "can you say didn't hurt a thing". Take your anger out on the real people deserving of it the liars that abuse and cheat and steal, that are allowed to flourish in your organization. While the truly heartfelt ones are left abandoned by your ungodly way. Bill keep on speaking the truth, out of the mouths of babes, we will fell the ultimate "Whore of Babylon" the Jehovah's Witness, witness to many an innocents abuse that is

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
16:40:18
Comments

Gadol: By the way, citing ecclesiastical privilege is just another way of saying that 'I don't because the Society says so.' A spiritually mature individual would not find himself falling on such man-made rules. A person that tried to grasp what Christianity is all about would feel a compulsion to protect others. Such a person would do all in his or her capacity to stop the atrocities from happening to another child - inside or outside the congregation. Failure to act to protect children is the most acute example of just how spiritually hobbled the society keeps you people.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
16:40:56
Comments

Gadol: By the way, citing ecclesiastical privilege is just another way of saying that 'I don't because the Society says so.' A spiritually mature individual would not find himself falling on such man-made rules. A person that tried to grasp what Christianity is all about would feel a compulsion to protect others. Such a person would do all in his or her capacity to stop the atrocities from happening to another child - inside or outside the congregation. Failure to act to protect children is the most acute example of just how spiritually hobbled the society keeps you people.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
16:52:58
Comments

Buster: Thanks for your comments. To clarify my previous post, when we had proof, we acted. No coverups. No intimidating of witnesses. The "Second Witness" principle is from the scriptures and it is a good rule. I was close to a family that was having problems with its oldest daughter. She accused her father of abusing her. A week later she recanted, saying she was just angry with her father and wanted to get back at him for his discipline. What if we had jumped the gun based on her ONE claim and reported and/or disfellowshipped him?

Also to clarify: It is a number of states laws that tell US that we cannot report abuse because of "Ecclesiastical Privilege." THEY (the states in question) tell us in effect 'we consider you clergy and,therefore, you HAVE to keep quiet.' Those elders may wish to report, but certain states WON'T LET THEM.

I hope that helps clear things up.

"Gadol"

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
17:10:25
Comments

In light of all I have read on this sight I find it incredible the comments that are made. This is not a positive remark...We need to be mindful that the Jehovah Witnesses do what they are told by the Watchtower Society. It is clear to them that the WTS has a direct link to God Almighty and not to listen to any apostate that may come their way. Including all of these comments on this page. We need to be mindful that they are slaves not only to their God but more, the Watchtower Society. We need to be mindful that JW's obviously do not look into the history behind their religion because it is clear that even their own founder, Charles Taze Russell, lied...not just to his followers, but in courts of law that has been recorded. He knew nothing of Greek or translations, but instead was not satisfied with his former religion ~Seventh Day Adventist~ and created an new one~ in which he created a new God and a new translation. Since then many new leaders have come their way, and now they denounce some of the things the leaders before them had said...even their own founder. They would rather his name never be brought up again...and if Russell were alive today, they probably would have disfellowshipped him. Unfortunate that the followers do not take the time to look into the background of their founders, it is only eternal life we're talking about ~ forever and ever. This is not about what religion is molesting what child, it happens all over, even to the unbelievers. What this is about is sin, plain and simple. Jesus Christ died for us all, his blood cleansed our sin and those who believe in Him as Savior will have eternal life. Don't fool yourselves, look into history, learn a little bit of Greek on your own and most of all pray for all the people who struggle with any sin - as great as molesting their own grandchild to lying about "miracle wheat". :) And praise Our Lord for his grace and mercy and love.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
17:14:16
Comments

Gadol: You're saying that a if you were in a non-required reporting state and you - a person with a detailed understanding of the situation - called the police or a child welfare agency, that they would 1/ determine if you were clergy and then 2/ tell you to go away? Do you expect people to swallow that? It sounds to me like the Society is probably pulling some statement out of context and passing it along to elders as justification for keeping silent.

The two-witness rule does have its place. Yes, there are false accusations. All that needs to be balanced against protecting the rest of the congregation and the even worldly children. That is where a professional, non-religious agency like Child Services can look into a problem, cross-reference reports, and get that other 'witness' that is not available to you. All you see, and can deal directly with, is the microcosm of people at the hall. You are pulling up short on your responsibility as a Christian if you look at the issue so myopically and put it aside.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
17:21:43
Comments

I think this website is very informational. Thank you for telling the truth.. I am one of Jehovah's witnesses and this scares me to death to think this is going on. I will most likely be the next to get disfellowshipped for thinking my own religion is doing such bad things.. Thanks again and please keep us informed.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
17:31:04
Comments

thank you. I am unable to leave any personal information, for reasons you are well aware of. I feel that I have lost my way. While I do believe that God has an organized way of dealing with us I am certain that Witnesses are not the only humans worthy of salvation. While I know that power corrupts I am saddened to know that grown men and women not only abdicate use of their own conscience and intellect, but are encouraged to do so by the JW. I am no longer attending meetings. I hope the organization can be cleaned up. THANK YOU, for being brave.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
18:38:27
Comments

Stop spreading your lies. You are worse than an apostate.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
20:32:00
Comments

I am shocked and saddened. I really hope that measures are taken to effectively deal with rapist and molesters within the religion. I commend the people that were strong enough to go against the norm and voice their concerns and incidents. Jehovah says to protect the innocent; I know that the right thing will be done. For not to believe this will crumble the moral foundations I was raised with.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
21:20:52
Comments

Hi. I have been raised as one of Jehovah's witnesses and my mother was the driving force for our family to be in the Truth. My father was opposed for years and being college-educated, debated many points of the Watchtower doctrine. I was baptized at 14, and faithfully followed the Truth the way I experienced it, a very separate and free, way of life where I felt content for so many years in spite of misgivings I may have had here and there. (not joining sports, missing my prom, not going to college, not having a social life) However, every now and then, I would see fellow sisters, teenage, who seemed to be going through something much darker than I was going through. I later found out that they had been through sexual abuse by their fathers, who were elders, and as far as I could see, they had absolutely no recourse in the situation. This bothered me and yet I felt that it was what other people go through in the world and have to find ways to cope. I didn't see it yet as pertinent to the congregation dynamics even though I was shocked and disgusted. I guess that in my young mind I felt their powerlessness and took it on as a hopeless trap for them and me.

However, later, when I had serious doubts about why a person should not go to college, after having four delightful children of my own with a husband I have loved dearly through thick and thin, I decided to go to college and my husband absolutely agreed to back me up. (Of course, he wasn't elder material even though he had been a baptized brother and an understanding voice in the Hall since day 1)

I went to Wellesley College, found intelligent, brainy women who would listen to all of this, and I found myself in the field of genetics. I am so moved by your efforts to work to change the policy which could destroy the credibility of the good work that the brothers do. There are so many brave-hearted and well-intentioned ones in the organization who do not understand the dilemma of The Silent Lambs.

Keep up the good work and know that you are reaching people who have either been through all this themselves or have suffered the pain of seeing...and not being able to speak out.

You may contact me at janderbing@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
21:20:54
Comments

Hi. I have been raised as one of Jehovah's witnesses and my mother was the driving force for our family to be in the Truth. My father was opposed for years and being college-educated, debated many points of the Watchtower doctrine. I was baptized at 14, and faithfully followed the Truth the way I experienced it, a very separate and free, way of life where I felt content for so many years in spite of misgivings I may have had here and there. (not joining sports, missing my prom, not going to college, not having a social life) However, every now and then, I would see fellow sisters, teenage, who seemed to be going through something much darker than I was going through. I later found out that they had been through sexual abuse by their fathers, who were elders, and as far as I could see, they had absolutely no recourse in the situation. This bothered me and yet I felt that it was what other people go through in the world and have to find ways to cope. I didn't see it yet as pertinent to the congregation dynamics even though I was shocked and disgusted. I guess that in my young mind I felt their powerlessness and took it on as a hopeless trap for them and me.

However, later, when I had serious doubts about why a person should not go to college, after having four delightful children of my own with a husband I have loved dearly through thick and thin, I decided to go to college and my husband absolutely agreed to back me up. (Of course, he wasn't elder material even though he had been a baptized brother and an understanding voice in the Hall since day 1)

I went to Wellesley College, found intelligent, brainy women who would listen to all of this, and I found myself in the field of genetics. I am so moved by your efforts to work to change the policy which could destroy the credibility of the good work that the brothers do. There are so many brave-hearted and well-intentioned ones in the organization who do not understand the dilemma of The Silent Lambs.

Keep up the good work and know that you are reaching people who have either been through all this themselves or have suffered the pain of seeing...and not being able to speak out.

You may contact me at janderbing@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
21:59:29
Comments

Why must we believe this is the truth because they want us to believe it. I was born into this religion and I have still to learn why this religion is any different from the others. God loves us all and it does not matter what religion you are in. The bible does not mention a specific religion by name. An organization that controls your life, An organization that is against bringing these sick human garbage waste to justice because of it's name is not a religion it is a cult. Yes I said it the Witness' are one of the biggest Cults I have ever had to deal with. They are the wolves in Sheep's clothing. Say to yourselves is this an organization I want to belong to. They are always criticizing the Catholic religion. But in my eyes they are just as bad or even worst. None of you are at fault the disgusting millionaire owners, because it is like a business, are the ones that are at fault. Who are you to tell me I am not anointed when you allow men to molest children and you do nothing about it. I have never been so disgusted with this religion the way I am right now.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
22:16:37
Comments

keep up the good work

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
22:58:06
Comments

FOR THOSE WHO DIDN"T SEE THE DATELINE EXPOSE'----- my sister told me that it will air again THIS SAT.!!!!!! at 6:00pm cent. time. I'm not sure of that date but it's something to watch for in your local listings. Thanks

Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
23:46:37
Comments

Hello my name is JoAnne, I was raised a JW for 30 years. My stepfather fit this description. When I was 30 I decided i was a hypocrite(sp?)To remain a JW, I saw too many good people in the world, and could not see them all dying at Armageddon. I am now 50 years old, when I was 40 my real dad passed away, not the one who raised us. ( I read on the back of my senior picture I gave him, among other things, it said ( I said I was sorry he would die at Armageddon(sp?).SICK I was a pioneer for 4 years when I got out of high school, was I brain washed or what, as I read your front cover I could hardly breath. getting together with ex Jehovah's witness, was the only way I got over the hump.of the guilt when you get out, I was disfellowshipped. I respect my mother and other JW, it takes a lot to stay in and they have good intentions from the heart, they do not know anything else, I can be phoned at 360-789-1211 JoAnne, I am hear for any ex JW, that want reassurance it is okay, to get out... I live in Olympia, Wa. if their is a meeting near my area of ex JW I would like to know about it, also I have a sister in Federal Way, WA. she is ex JW, also ( we have stories.......if you know what I mean, )Take Care, JoAnne

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
00:03:02
Comments

..I know the main discussion is child molestation in the churches on this page, but I need to make a point. We find it so easy to point fingers at religions that twist the truth of the Word of God (FYI:I belong to a Lutheran church) to fit the doctrine of our church. But I've recently hit a website that I was directed to by this page and I find it interesting how not only do people twist God's word to fit their doctrine, but also twist it to fit their lifestyle. Scripture interprets Scripture. You cannot pull one or two lines and make it gospel. It seems to me that some who were so weak in their faith to join up with an outfit like the JW's are weak in their God-given bodies also. Searching for self acceptance and happiness and twisting God's Word so they can feel that it is acceptable. I'm not talking about Pedophiles here folks. Be careful of these Silentlambs...this website may be helpful to some...and I appreciate that, but as we have all learned from this page...you can't always trust a gentle face, detestable things go on behind closed doors.

-Johnna

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
00:10:00
Comments

Kandy

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
00:31:03
Comments

I am 15 years old and I was raised a witness. I watched the Dateline program last week and it made me very upset, I would like to help in anyway that I can, JKS

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
00:48:05
Comments

I am Webmaster of the San Francisco chapter of "A Common Bond", the international support network for gay & lesbian current and former Jehovah's Witnesses. While "A Common Bond" fully endorses the mission of "Silentlambs", I would like to state for the record that our two support networks are not affiliated in any way. Earlier today, our web site began to receive quite a number of "hits" from this site, and I traced it to a posting made by an individual stating that Bill Bowen was associated with our support network. He is not, and I want to personally offer my apologies to Mr Bowen for any misunderstandings that may have arisen from the posting of an individual with an obvious agenda of attempting to damage Mr Bowen's reputation.

After the airing of Dateline's expose' last week, the number of visits to our website has almost tripled. Surely, a number of visitors to our site are active Jehovah's Witnesses who have been exposed to the teachings of the Watchtower Society equating pedophilia with homosexuality. To that end, I felt it necessary to add an essay to our site explaining the difference between gays and pedophiles so that those visiting our site would not be misled into believing that any of our membership advocates pedophilia in any form. The essay has been posted at: http://www.gayxjw.org/ped.html

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Mr Bowen on his extraordinary courage and human kindness in offering a refuge to those victims of abuse. Thank you for a job well done! Kind Regards.... JIM MOON Webmaster - A Common Bond - San Francisco

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
04:25:38
Comments

Funny how Jehovah cleans his organization, and the "dirt" find a place to hang out.

It's disgusting what's going on in here. I feel terrible for those that have genuinely been hurt, as opposed to those "silentlambs" who drop in to this website for their supposed research and airing of their hatred. People - take a breath, slow down, and think about what would really help abuse victims. THEY NEED LOVE. Jehovah can provide that love.

This site is the LAST place abuse victims should visit. When I see a post like "I now have the courage to say my whole family was abused by witnesses" my first inclination is to think that Bill Bowen himself is posting that message to keep the water boiling. How can a whole family be abused and now have the "courage" to say it anonymously on a website? Have you contacted the police? Did you go to the elders?

What utter confusion. In my past an elder attempted to molest me, and an elders son actually did molest me. I have started to cry almost daily at these repressed memories surfacing. However, how can I blast an organization that has kept me clean morally, helped me with ALL of the serious issues I have encountered in this demonic world, blessed me with a wonderful woman for a wife, and now with two beautiful children that pray with me at night to the ALMIGHTY Jehovah?

The next sentence I direct to those who were truly abused - pray to Jehovah. Stop coming here for a while and think about forgiveness, yes forgiveness, to the abusers, the elders that may have mishandled your case, and to the organization that is working hard to provide spiritual guidance to a congregation of witnesses who undoubtedly love you. Your next step should be professional help, and spiritual help, and if you feel the elders in your hall have mishandled your case, ESCALATE. Contact the Society or the circuit overseer. You will be very surprised at the love and dedication to your physical, mental and spiritual well being these shepherds will show you.

To Bill Bowen - I'm not quite sure that you can turn around from the damage that you have already done, but only Jehovah can read a persons heart. I commend that you want to help abuse victims, but it looks like you want to victimize innocent bystanders like me and about 6 million other witnesses. You seem like a smart man, spend your time setting up a non-biased organization that helps abuse victims across the board. There are victims in many other religions and institutions here on earth.

No - I will not sign my email, because I can guarantee you that I will receive a deluge of hate mail. I've seen enough of it here.

To my fellow witnesses perusing this site - You have made the same mistake I have made. Curiosity got the better of me, and for what? Now I am heartsick seeing the amount of hate that is festering here.

To all - Times are changing fast. Lets all make a change for the better.

P.S. I saw the Dateline show, and I am not impressed at all with Dateline. I have been both outside and inside the organization, and I can tell you they were not objective at all. They did not speak to anyone who has good things to say about the JW's, no one who was molested but can say they were treated the way they were supposed to, and did not highlight the fact that JW's do not pay hush money, do not shuffle elders around, and write many, many articles on child abuse.

I will never view another Dateline story without wondering how far they have gone for good ratings.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
06:56:06
Comments

They have forgotten the scripture at 1 Corinthians 6:7 which says “Really, then, it means altogether a defeat for YOU that YOU are having lawsuits with one another. Why do YOU not rather let yourselves be wronged?” This is God's Word speaking to us. Yes, what happened to many at the hands of supposed Witnesses is an unspeakable crime – against God and humanity, but loyal Jaws endeavor to follow scripture in *all* things, even when it is painful to do so.

ARE YOU A MOTHER FUCKING PSYCHO???????? SHOULD I HAVE JUST MY FATHER MOLEST ME? YOU TWISTED THE SCRIPTURES AGAIN YOU IGNORANT BASTARD I AM SO GLAD I AM AWAY FROM YOU FALSE TEACHING ASSHOLES

SUE THE JW'S SUE THEM ALL IF THEY DON'T WANNA DO ANYTHING ABOUT OUR CHILDREN AND STOP MOLESTATION WE WILL WE WILL SUE YOUR ASSES SEE YOU IN COURT BASTARDS

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
07:04:44
Comments

In response to Kandy:

""It seems to me with homosexuality, it is lusting after the same sex, just as heterosexuals lust after one another before marriage. But with Ped's it is with young children.""

Right, and that makes it a crime!!!!!!!!!

"" Does anyone think that they will find a Pedophilia "gene" like some people say there is a Homosexual "gene" ""

Even if they do, so what? That still makes pedophilia a crime!!! Same as with kleptomania! Although then nobody is physically or mentally abused!

""would pedophilia be okay then, because there is a gene that makes them that way...."'

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even if it's in the genes!!

And with whom adults have sex with that's their business, genes or not!

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
07:07:33
Comments

Keep in mind also that Jehovah does allow tests of loyalty at the hands of Satan in order to ‘sift us YOU ASSHOLE NO WHERE DOES GOD ALLOW SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN TO TEST ANYONE SO DON'T FEED THAT BULL CRAP TO US GOD IS NOT ABOUT USING SEXUAL ABUSE HE IS A KIND AND COMPASSIONATE AND LOVING GOD NOT A PERVERT LIKE YOU PEOPLE IN JW'S ARE

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
07:48:46
Comments

My Father became a JW when I was 17. He pretty much forced our family into it. My Dad is very controlling. I made the mistake of getting baptized. I have been disfellowshipped since I was 24. I hate what this cult does to families. It ruined my relationship with my parents. I refuse to be a part of something that is based on guilt and fear and hypocrisy. I am 45 now and within the last 5 yrs. we have a somewhat of a relationship. Only because the Watchtower people said he could.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
08:34:00
Comments

To the irate Witness that sent my wife a computer virus. Would that "the organization" purge pedophiles from their flocks as easily as we have purged the virus. Why do you have to take the scrutiny of obvious deficiencies in the organization personally? No one is attacking the basic belief that you have, only the hypocritical and illegal actions of the leadership. If ALL Witnesses behaved in accordance with the "love God and love your neighbor" instruction of Jesus, then I would probably still be an active member. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Get over yourself. Chris Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
08:34:18
Comments

To the irate Witness that sent my wife a computer virus. Would that "the organization" purge pedophiles from their flocks as easily as we have purged the virus. Why do you have to take the scrutiny of obvious deficiencies in the organization personally? No one is attacking the basic belief that you have, only the hypocritical and illegal actions of the leadership. If ALL Witnesses behaved in accordance with the "love God and love your neighbor" instruction of Jesus, then I would probably still be an active member. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Get over yourself. Chris Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
09:53:47
Comments

You said it Chris:

"Why do you have to take the scrutiny of obvious deficiencies in the organization personally? ""

Perhaps because they are so brainwashed they cant look/think straight??? This is typically cult behavior, although they all deny it!

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
10:25:05
Comments

I'm one of Jehovah's witnesses and this has gotten crazy out of control. I am very glad this website is here. I no longer attend the meetings because I found myself being a hypocrite. I thought the Catholics were doing very sinful things I even expressed my feelings with other witnesses and they believed the things about the Catholics but not about our religion. I believe we all are becoming hypocrites. shame on all religions that put their faith in their cong instead of our grand Creator Jehovah and his son Jesus Christ. I want to say I'm sorry for being a hypocrite and also very sorry for the victims.... I will no longer stand up for anyone who will keep these secrets. I was abused as a child and people knew about the abuse and never reported. these were not witnesses at the time these were friends of the family of all different religions. I ask who will protect the children if we don't. these children do not trust anyone and if they do have courage to come for help then I beg everyone and anyone to Help them!!! This is Jehovah's way of letting it out through the child's own cry for help.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
10:56:32
Comments

I have just read your site, and I'm appalled at what has been going on in the congregations, and the coverup, that has been done, and suggested to be done, by the Society. I could barely function at hearing these things. I'm more appalled that individuals, that have come forward, about these matters, are possibly going to be disfellowshipped. How terrible, they have done nothing! No one should take away their friends and family, for something like this. It's terrible! I don't know what else to say. Jehovah is surely bringing to light, the hidden sins of many. I just hope they don't disfellowship these people. It's an awful state to be in, with no one to talk to, and having no friends.

Margaret Silvia (Stoughton Congregation-Massachusetts)

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
11:11:45
Comments

Courage is a possession of only a few. You have demonstrated you have this quality by your outspokenness and willingness to expose a gross wrong. What I find interesting is that many still look to the Watchtower Society as though they are a religious authority. For no one can have authority over you unless you allow it. Further, would Jesus be the head of an organization that fosters an environment that allows pedophiles to exist and continue to torture innocent victims with abuse and threaten them with alienation from God if they try to right the wrong?! Would He not vomit such an organization out of his mouth? It is hard to tell the JW from the Catholic in action and organization. Rev. 21.8; John 8.31-47 Turn to the Lord and not to man made religious societies and enjoy the freedom that only He can give. 2 Cor. 3.16, 17 May God bless the courage you show. John Partridge Lawrence

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
12:43:40
Comments

When my mother first started to study with the witnesses & started "changing" her life - I remember her burning other religious books in the backyard and I remember her returning some stained glass windows that she had stolen from some people. I was raised pretty much as a feral child up to that point & stole everything & anything from anyone that wasn't tied down. When my mother started to notice & care about this & found out that I had stolen from the person she was studying with I remember having to repay the person not just what I had stolen but double the amount based on a Bible principle. I'm getting to my point but rather slowly-LOL. If you steal/Rape from a child or any anyone for that matter - How can a person ever repay that? They can't restore the child's innocence and their feeling of trust & the feeling of being truly safe again. It's by not only fessing up to the elders & to stop continuing to do those things but they should have to apologize to the victims & their families and then serve the time in jail for their crime - However much time that would be - That wouldn't "fix" the damage but it would validate the victims trauma and help them to start healing sooner. What I fear is that some elders apart from the society don't view this as a crime - they may just be viewing it as any other weakness of the flesh & if the person says their sorry or denies it well that's the end of that. THIS IS A CRIME!!! not something that kids should have to endure at the hands of people they should be able to trust and are told to trust. Someone made the comment awhile back totally berating the girl on the Dateline program who had disfigured herself with the tatoos saying that obviously she never really had a relationship with Jehovah in the first place if she could do that to herself (AND YOU CAN READ HEARTS?). That comment made me mad because - for one - How do you know what you would do if you were a victim of a horrible crime against your body & couldn't speak out about it? I am almost 200 lbs over weight - is that any better than tattooing myself. I do it for the same reason - so that I can be unattractive and I can feel safer because I was molested, attacked & raped as a child. Not everyone deals with traumatic violence against their bodies in the same way and no one can judge someone else for the way they display their anguish and pain.PLEASE LEAVE THE READING OF HEARTS TO JEHOVAH'S - the fact that some of us have not killed ourselves as a way of dealing with the abuse is a testament to the fact that Jehovah helped us to survive in the first place. Jesus never would have turn anyone away with contempt especially if someone has been abused by someone claiming to serve his God. Where is your compassion? I've had to deal for many years with a mother who is mentally ill(won't admit that she has a problem) & has been abusive to us kids--but because she was/is a more active servant in the congregation she is held with higher regard & is believed more than we are - even though my younger brother killed himself (Hello?-the biggest cry for help) So I know what it's like to not be believed & to have people side with the abuser because of their "sheep like" standing. Please don't be quick to judge those when you don't know the whole story!

-Shelly Butyrin- ratgrrl63@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
12:44:23
Comments

Power, power and more power, is what the Jehovah's Witness organization has over it "sheep". This power is what keeps its members from speaking out, doubting policies, and in any way disagreeing with its policies.

I would like to thank you for this web-site, from the bottom of my heart. I will submit my story to you as soon as I can prepare it. I was a victim of cruelty for the first 13 years of my life, being physically and sexually abused by my step-father, whose name will be disclosed in my official letter as he was finally charged by the Supreme court of these crimes (after 13 years).

But it is not only him I blame, but the elders and entire organization Jehovah's Witnesses, who kept this matter a "secret", never alerting the authorities of at least the physical abuse that was often performed at social functions, never inquiring about why me and my siblings were always bruised from head to toe, why we flinched at his every move. But questioning the policies is not allowed within the organization; there is no room for self expression or asking "why", this would be considered blasphemy, the only unforgivable sin. Upon submission of "my story" I will then be considered an apostate, but if that's the worst that can happen to me for exposing this cult-like organization and hopefully helping other victims, then it is well worth it. God is the only one who can judge me. I will visit your web-site often, because up until yesterday, I thought that me and my sister were the only ones brave enough to discuss the discrepancies and hypocrisies and wide-spread physical and sexual abuse within the organization. As stated earlier, I will submit an actual letter stating my case, so other "lambs" can feel comfort in knowing they are not the only ones who have suffered, and to varying degrees are likely still suffering from these injustices. I am now 30 years old and am considered inactive (I stopped attending meetings about 7 years ago), but the doubts were present as a child, which makes me wonder how in the world can these "adults" continue to follow such an organization? I guess they just continue to keep their "eyes on the prize".

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
13:20:20
Comments

HELLO EVERYONE, I THINK EVERYONE ON THIS SITE SHOULD TAKE A FEW MOMENTS AND PURCHASE CANDLES FROM OUR BRAVE FRIEND BILL.

HOW DO WE GO ABOUT DOING ?? I WILL TRY TO MAKE IT CLEAR AND PERHAPS WE WILL ALL BE ABLE TO HELP SUPPORT OUR DEAR BRO BILL IN HIS TIME OF NEED.

Michael in Canada

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
13:27:23
Comments

I was raised a JW and am currently inactive at the age of 23. I plan to NEVER return. I know 2 women very close to me who were abused by there JW stepfather. Both women are no longer active and still healing after 20 years. The offenders still belong to the congregation. All though they were disfellowshipped at the time, no further action was taken by the society. I feel for every victim who did not get the support that was so needed. Please believe that a Loving God like Jehovah would not allow his "true organization" to be run this way. I also feel for the millions of Witness that are blinded to the actual truth. This is not Gods Organization.

M.S. Massachusetts

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
13:34:32
Comments

I just read from you saying that you will write your story about your stepfathers abuse. I am so happy with tears in my eyes that you are going to tell your story. Have faith in Jehovah he will never leave you for speaking the truth. The truth is what we are taught being a Jehovah's witness right? so why are you going to be an apostate? I have sent in my letter saying I will no longer attend the meetings. I have set my eye on the prize!! Jehovah has let everything be known. He will continue to let things known! Babylon the great is falling. Ours along with many more! True Christians will only be led by Jehovah and his son. I will be waiting for many more of you to take courage and stand up for the TRUTH!!!!!!! Thank you for all the support Jehovah's witnesses and ex-witnesses..

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
14:55:34
Comments

Margaret Silvia: I wish Witnesses could hear themselves talk. To suggest that 'Jehovah is bringing these things to light' via those that are gaining exposure to the media is to also suppose that Jehovah was waiting. It supposes that Jehovah was allowing elders in His organization to abuse, or allow to be abused, innocent children. That fatalistic attitude is exactly the core of the problem! Witnesses use that attitude to justify standing by and allowing this savagery to be perpetrated on young children.

I would like to hear from one active Witness that is willing to re-examine Witness 'current understanding' (aka: self-interested justification) against the major themes of the New Testament. Please don't quote individual verses out of context - that is an endless cycle and ignores the overriding principles of Christianity. We ALL need to care for and protect those that need it - and that applies in largest measure to children.

The biggest issue Witnesses face is that an honest assessment of their dogma will shatter their blinders-on, we-are-the-truth self image.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
15:19:46
Comments

Dear Mr. Bowen,

God Bless you for what you are doing. Keep your chin up and your fists raised against the injustices going on in the Kingdom Halls.

Peace and Blessings, Chrystal Swenson nowhiners@attbi.com

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
15:31:13
Comments

To whom it may concern,I am in need of anyone who can help my family.My husband was molested as a child,his siblings (who I might add does not want to go against her father),and years later asked me to consent to having intercourse,bondage,etc. My husband never spoke of this abuse until 5 years ago which is when he had tried to commit suicide,and finally told me.About a year later my child tried to stab a fellow student at school with a pencil because a child tried to put play handcuffs on him. Nothing could have ever prepared me for what I saw when I got the call to come to the school immeditately.My son who was 8 at the time was in a ball on the floor rocking,screaming he's going to kill you and my daddy.Police came ,we have done the counseling for years,We took him to care house where they Interviewed him,found his allegations to be true,And still we have no resolve. My husbands sister has 3 or more children,and knowingly takes them over there all the time.Some Mother!But I guess when your own mother tolerates this you learn to sweep it under the rug. Well I nor my husband is going to sweep this under the rug Repressed memory is hard to prove they tell my husband,But what if you were raised in this religion to do nothing and just fear the next time you are left alone with him.He blocked it out because he knew no other life. We thought that after that sickening phone call we were lucky because at least our children weren't being abused.How wrong were we.He had already abused our eldest son.Thank god our other son was only 5 weeks old and was never left alone with him. A cousin has come forward and also endured the same abuse,(bondage/fondling etc.)and yet were still sitting in the same place.So this man and wife are allowed to go on acting as if they are Jehovah's's witnesses,they are the perfect parents,and have a normal life,While my son is still afraid of everyone and everything,My husband cries a lot because he is reliving the pain he blocked out through his son.Please Help !!!!!! Any info is welcome. Thank-You For listening..... Peg And Don J

P.S. They still attend the Kingdom Hall In Roseville Mi. Please to all be aware!

Horace and Pamela J. I Will sleep at night someday when you are punished for what you have done. Remember when you belittled my family because we weren't Jehovah's Witnesses,Thank God I never was. And thank god,I was raised in a safe loving environment,the way it should be. And a note to Pam and Sandy,Stop living in denial, and I will pray that you can live with yourselves,for putting the precious lives of children in danger.(A mother is supposed to protect her young always!)but then again you are "no"mother!

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
15:49:44
Comments

This is my letter to the governing body. I hope for all concerned that enough letters are sent and something will be done. My e-mail is lmatheny@emtecae.com I would not mind if any lovers of Jehovah contact me. June 5, 2002

Governing Body Watchtower 25 Columbia Heights Brooklyn, NY 11201

Dear Brothers,

I am not articulate; so please forgive the way I put things. I was baptized July 9, 1965 in San Diego, California. I am convinced that what I learned many years ago was and is the truth. Many things along the way have had to be clarified and refined, but that is O.K. I don't expect the Faithful Slave to be any more perfect than I am. Now there is a great storm upon Jehovah's people. He is allowing it for a reason. Wolves among the flock are harming some of his precious children. This storm will not pass until you, the Governing Body, repent and turn around and make amends for the pain and suffering caused by the crying children. While you sit on your hands or stick your head in the sand, we on the front lines must answer the humiliating accusations of an angry public who already doesn't like us. But I will endure humiliation as Jehovah disciplines you. There will be many that will not. You will answer to Jehovah for that also. It seems so simple. Apologize in the media and the Watchtower magazine for the pain and suffering that has been caused by ignorant and arrogant elders. Open the files no matter how old. Turn over the names to the authorities. They are Jehovah's ministers to avenge the countless victims. The only ones that will be angry, will be the guilty or perhaps the ones who helped hide the malicious crime. Romans 13:3,4 is so plain. Those in the congregation who commit crimes against both God and Caesar have no one to blame but themselves. I had to go back to 1966 to find those verses discussed in the book “Life Everlasting – In Freedom of the Son's of God” page 206. I do take exception of the phrase “outside the congregation”. I really don't think that qualifier applies. The book says, “Even the congregation with which he has associated has no right to protect him from receiving any deserved punishment at the hands of the Law or ‘authority.' Thus even toward the members of the ‘congregation of God' the ‘authority' of the land can act as ‘God's minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad.'” The superior authorities have laws set up for the public order. The book “True Peace and Security How Can You Find It” (1986) page 132-136 is enlightening. Page 132 says “The laws put into force by them are not to be disregarded.” And “ In large measure, secular laws work for good. They help maintain order and assure a measure of protection for people and their property.” Page 134 says, “ At times a person may feel that he can ignore authority and do what he pleases because he is not likely to get caught and punished.” This happens time and again when Elders try to play Policeman. They are ill equipped and untrained in criminal justice procedures. That is the responsibility of Jehovah's ministers, the superior authority, to avenge punishment on criminals. To circumvent that arrangement, to go ahead of Jehovah's provision and handle matters of a criminal nature “in-house” is to be guilty of taking a stand “against the arrangement of God”. By protecting the criminal from punishment and silencing the victims The WBTS has made itself an accomplice to the crime. Eli did not commit the atrocities but he knew about what his sons had done and did not take steps to rid Jehovah's house of the disgusting filth. Is this any different? I am sure that about now you think I am parroting what others have said without any personal knowledge to base it on. My story is not nearly as bad as some I have read. I have been tormented by old memories lately since the Dateline piece aired. I had carefully packed the memories away, buried under other old memories, hidden in the back of the closet of my mind. Now every day it seems that another memory from that box is unwrapped and open to be freshly examined. The mind is amazing. Memories 20 and 30 years old can bring back feelings and emotions as intense as if it happened yesterday. The old memories have been reactivated by the knowledge that my experience was not isolated. Worse things have happened, thousands of times, to other trusting Christians under the supposed watchful care of spiritual shepherds. When I realized that it was more than the Riverview, Florida congregation that had this type of corruption I was heartsick (no, I was just plain sick). I was determined to continue attending meetings. Jesus attended meetings at the temple and synagogue even though he knew it was full of vipers. I moved my family to another town away from the Riverview congregation. I convinced myself that Jehovah would take care of them. But how could He? I was effectively silenced. He didn't have my help. He didn't have the help of anyone else in that congregation. Every one there was cooperating with the status quo. What did I expect Jehovah to do? Send a bolt of lightning to disintegrate the kingdom hall? At that time I was too weak to stand up against the body of elders. I could barely crawl to another kingdom hall. I now attend a fine loving congregation. It has problems but not like some. I wish that the elders had of told me about the pedophile in this congregation, instead a member of his family did. But at least I can be careful about allowing my granddaughters to be alone with him. He is a fine man and progressing in Bible knowledge, but he has a problem. If I wanted to hire a security guard for a wine store I would certainly want to know if the applicant was a recovering alcoholic. Similarly I feel I need to know if a pedophile is in my congregation since I have “at risk “ children. I feel compelled to speak out now and add my voice to the hundreds, perhaps thousands, who cry out for justice. The heartless, secret judicial system must end. Judicial matters belong in the city gates or at least before the entire congregation. Not hidden away in a tiny room where victims of abuse feel victimized again. There has to be a better way. Search the Scriptures until you find the answer. I have confidence that you are the faithful shepherd. This storm will continue until you satisfy Jehovah's sense of justice. We are counting on you. Please do not let us down.

Sincerely with heartfelt love, Your Sister' xxxxxxxxx Bayshore Congregation, Tampa, Florida

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
15:52:07
Comments

Peg and Don,

Sorry, I have no advice to offer. But I want to say that I have been reading posts on this site for a while now and yours was the most moving I've read. I feel such extreme anguish and wish there was something I could do.

- Cliff

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
16:07:50
Comments

To the sister at Bayshore in Tampa, FL: Thanks for writing and posting/sharing your letter to the WTS.

Reader

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
16:50:31
Comments

I am a JW in NYC. I have no stories and only now of few. In my 21 yrs as a witness their are various things that I must admit I do not agree with. But when looking deep into the religion and its word one must admit that it is refreshing. Nothing and no one I perfect. But to turn ones back on Jehovah is definitely not the way to reconcile any issue. When dealing with men (which this sight is doing) you have to keep in my mind the true purpose. I question whether the person of the "Silent Lambs" is to show the mis handling by the congregation or to destroy the Christian brotherhood. I am a baptized sister and I do not disagree with exposing wrong doing. In the same sense I do feel their is another way to work these types of situations out without bringing it to such a level. At this point it is hard to say I approve and am OK with the fact that I even looked here. One must realize that Jehovah is in your heart and you must achieve salvation for yourself. I am not sure if this is the way to go about that though. Regardless, I hope that the all of the "Silent Lambs" and the header of the organization do not give up their faith in Jehovah. Whatever has been done to you was by men. Jehovah will deal with them in due time. Do not let MEN dictate your salvation.

Written With Respect, SKEPTICAL

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
17:09:07
Comments

Skeptical: Again, I gotta point it out, if you could hear yourself speak you would be embarrassed. 'Whatever was done to you was done by men', are you kidding? It is that fatalistic attitude that allows you to sit back and let it happen. If Jehovah has a preferred Org. on Earth, then he would certainly expect that all it's members would do their best to root out child abusers. Yes, God expects you to do what you can. You should be ashamed of yourself for having the idea that you should wait.

Also, it is time again to point out that you and other Witnesses continue to equate attacking evil practices in the organization as the same as turning one's back on God. It isn't. In fact, railing against child abuse and those that tolerate it is a very Christian avocation.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
17:21:57
Comments

TO JESIKA THOMAN............

Hey girl, this is your aunt, Lin. I'm happy to see you are on here. I know you are in a lot of pain due to what my younger brother did to you many years ago. But, of course, it seems almost like yesterday, right? Believe me, I understand that. Boy do I understand that. I hope that being on Silentlambs will be of some comfort to you, especially to let you see you are definitely not alone. It tears my heart out to know how my brother hurt you, and how it swept under the carpet even amongst our family. I didn't become aware until many years later, when your mom told me after your parents divorced. To know my own brother molested you, and I had a pedophile for a brother, rips me apart. Thinking of him having been in our house with my two little daughters, ugh........

Then my own son was anally raped by John Milenger (Palatine, IL Cong) multiple times and threatened if he told. John has since died, lucky dog! Death was too easy for him, he deserved much more.......and I would have been only too happy to assist in bringing it all on him. All the difficulties and heartaches and struggles I've had with Andre. Here he was raped himself, only to keep it to himself for so many years, subsequently molest his littlest sister and has been in jail for four years now because of it. My son, a victim and also perpetrator, suffers but John is just.......dead, no pain no suffering.

Please call your sister or your mom and ask them for my email address, since there's been problems with people here sending viruses.

Your aunt Lin

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
20:06:30
Comments

I'm either for or against Jehovah's Witnesses. I feel that no matter what religion you're in NO ONE, NOT NO ONE should rely on no person to control your thoughts as to what procedure to take in regard to child molestation.(If that has happened,Oh Boy!) If a crime has been committed against any family member. No matter what anyone says, one should take the matter to the authorities and not to mere men because you are the only one that can give account of the incident and parents should take responsibility for their own children and not look for the pastor to do it.

Now if these pastors. I forgot, elders state that you will be put out for doing so. GO TO THE AUTHORITIES TO GET THE PROOF NEEDED,DNA/Lie Detector tests etc. Then hopefully, these church people will see that you have the proof to show that these people are actually guilty and maybe they will believe and take action then. If not, still go on and take the next legal step. Don't be afraid of mere men!

It seems like one would not have to take these extreme measures to prove a crime, but there have been cases on talk shows where people have been accused of child molestation, the one accused was put in jail and had to serve time. On down the line it was proven that the person was not guilty of the crime after all, in some cases, because the child admitted that they falsely accused the person years after they have been put in prison. Now this person have a criminal scar because of the lie this child has told. There have been those such cases that have taken place too, you know.

So I guess those few cases put people in situations sometimes where they don't know what to do in the matter as to children reporting abuse. But, once it is found out, some sympathy should be given toward the abused.

No matter how we worship God, me must not downgrade one religion over another even though they might worship God in their so called way. "Do not return evil for evil!" I don't think that is "What Jesus Would Do!"

Downgrading people in this Jehovah Witness religion will just drive them away and not draw them to Jesus. I don't think Jesus would like that.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
21:12:58
Comments

I've got a question, what if someone murdered another person and there was only one witness to that murder, would the witness as a JW go to the elders first, and would they contact the legal department of the WT Society Headquarters to handle this case? Would that witness be threatened with disfellowshipping if he reported this crime to the police? Whether it is rape or murder it is still a crime, no religion can make a determination as to whether it should be reported or not. Any religion that feels that it is above the law (which Jehovah has put in the hearts of men) is in the wrong! I know how intimidating the Organization and the Congregations of JW's can be when it comes to an individual to think on his own. Dare to think for yourselves and if a crime is committed, call the authorities. Nobody has the right to violate another and no religion should spiritually rape the victim for reporting the crime.

again Cliff Moore

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
21:35:44
Comments

I am a victim of sexual molestation at the hands of my father, and elder in the congregation. The cover up of molestations dates far back! They made me feel like I had to repent when I told! Jaws are nothing but a sick cult. The public needs to be informed as much as possible! JaneBarsoom@msn.com

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
22:46:54
Comments

Buster:

I accept your challenge, i.e.: I would like to hear from one active Witness that is willing to re-examine Witness 'current understanding' (aka: self-interested justification) against the major themes of the New Testament.

I guess you can call me an active witness, although only until the end of this month.

Imagine a country called “Christianity”. This country has many strange laws but we are only going to consider one. We will examine. …Does anyone of YOU that has a case against the other dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? 1 Cor 6:1

In Christianity this scripture is used to stifle ANY taking of brothers to court for any injustice whether small or grievous.

Let's us use our imaginations and a little reasoning and common sense to see the outcome for the country of “Christianity.”

Any Predator could apply for citizenship and as long as he ONLY preyed on his fellow citizens he would be safe from prosecution.

Predators would be totally safe in Christianity, because its leaders are able to simply forgive him for any crime. Justice for victims is rarely practiced in this country. However if worse came to worse and the predator were convicted, he would only be asked to leave Christianity. There is no other penalty. He could always repent and return. Immigration statistics for Christianity show predators always return because conditions are harsh in other nations for their type.

But surely a predator who had cultivated the ability to “court” and then rape a little child would seldom be deported from Christianity. He would also be an expert at out smarting the silly leaders of this country.

And that's just one type of criminal protected in Christianity. We would also coddle child and wife beaters, essentially just any type of evil at all would be tolerated based on the 1 Cor 6:1 law.

Christianity would soon become blight to the nations around it for it would be filled with every type of manipulating criminal, and who knows when they would cross the border.

Christianity wouldn't be a very nice place for decent people who actually tried to apply the scriptures as explained to them by their leaders. They would be victimized, silenced and destroyed. But they would of course be thrown out of Christianity if they weren't willing to allow this to happen.

The only justice former members of Christianity would be found in other countries.

Christianity would allow some one like Clement Pandello (who admitted to molesting little girls for 40 yrs) and Mr. Fitzwater (who the WBTS knew had molested 17 children) full citizenship.

Who else would benefit from the law of 1 Cor 6:1 in Christianity?

Any cooperation that is willing to hide injustice to protect its reputation rather than caring for suffering members.

Any organization determined to never be forced to pay out money in lawsuits regardless of its deeds.

All the Bible Commentators I found on the Internet explain 1 Cor 6:1 as pertaining to small or even trivial matters. The types of matters settled by mediation today.

So did Watchtower 7/1 1961 p.415 (probably other places too).....The synagogue was the place where all minor cases involving Jews were heard and disposed of; and so also the apostle Paul argues that Christians should let the mature ones in the congregation judge matters rather than go to worldly courts to settle differences between themselves.

In Christianity Jehovah God would have great reproach heaped on his name and the many, many tears shed on his altar.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
23:04:51
Comments

Thank you Bill Bowen, Barbara Anderson, Date Line and all others involved for your courage,commitment and hard work in bringing this terrible thing into the open. Certainly many children and adults who have been hurt in the past will be encouraged and find help through what you have accomplished, and much more pain and destruction of young lives will be averted. You have also further exposed the Watchtower Society in yet more of their hurtful dictates, which will help many more sincere Witnesses to know that Jehovah's will is not accomplished through the Watchtower. May God bless you all and many, many more through your efforts. My Sincere Thanks, Ted Brown P.S. My 17 year old son who has been raised by my wife as a witness saw the program on tape. I hope to persuade my wife to see it as well. My e-mail address is tedwardbrown@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
05 Jun 2002
Time:
23:36:03
Comments

" All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".

Case closed.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
01:09:04
Comments

the watchtower society USED to apply the scripture about not taking your brothers to court to civil suits .... NOW I see it being applied to protecting child molesters ... did Paul REALLY mean to allow your children to be molested when he said 'why not let yourself be wronged?' ... if this is the new light teaching from the organization ... then I guess I AM an apostate ... or would I be one if I went back to the organization that is promoting such UNchristian attitudes? after all ... when I was dedicated and baptized it was in line with the old teaching of protecting our children ... even though what was practiced was far afield from what was preached ... so to all you FAITHFUL ones ... do I betray my children ... my "inheritance from Jehovah's" and go back to their abusers? ... will going back to the lying, corruption and cover up make me LESS APOSTATE? or will it make me MORE? do I humbly ask for forgiveness from the elders who added their own abuse to my children? ... will that make me a better Christian? a better Jehovah's's witness? ... many of you are saying just that ,,,

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
02:29:49
Comments

I was raised in the White Rock congregation here in Dallas, Texas. I started studying, before my parents, when I was 9 and I honestly, truly believed everything I was taught at the Hall. It was all I had. That changed when as an adult, I was forced to deal with my abusive childhood. That was 14 years ago. Interestingly, no one in that cold and gossipy congregation had any problem believing my family was not only dysfunctional, but incestuous. It's amazing, but the cruel and harsh attitude the elders, as well as the rest of that congregation expressed toward myself and my wife sometimes feels as fresh as if it happened yesterday. One elder told me that a child can hurt a parent more than a parent hurt a child. I guess he's never been sodomized. Another was very proud of the fact that he and his wife were regular pioneers and their 2 small daughters were auxiliary pioneers. When they were interviewed on stage, and asked what they did for fun, one of the girls said, "We go out in service." Some fun. My heart went out to them then, as it does now. This elder told me that Jehovah was far too busy to be interested in my "petty little problem." Someone very wise and kind once said, "You will know my followers because they have love among themselves."

My father was, and still is a ministerial servant. He, and the rest of my family of origin are still held up as paragons of virtue. I, my wife and children, are not. I'm glad now that I had my name legally changed. It was a dirty name given to me by dirty people who now live in a whitewashed grave They are surrounded by a hypocritical and hollow people who lost something very precious somewhere along the way. And yet, after reading through this site, what happened to me is not even on the radar screen compared to the hideous things this religion has done to others.

I don't care what the Bible says, I don't care what scriptures are used and twisted, what has happened is wrong. It was wrong then. It is wrong now. It is eternally wrong! I cannot and will not believe in any god who approves of hiding or protecting a rapist, a pedophile, while shunning, blackballing or in any other way punishing the victim of the crime. Nor can I believe in any god who approves of disfellowshipping (spiritually killing) anyone who stands up to say "Enough! This must stop!" Forget biblical love, whatever happened to common human decency? Realize and believe this: not EVERY man, woman or child who screams, "Rape!" is lying. Some of us, just wish we were.

Peace

Christopher Scott formerly Scott Presley

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
03:16:33
Comments

Gadol:

Clergy "privilege" is for those who confess their sins - did you say someone confessed they were a pedophile ? Or are you saying if a child accuses someone of being a pedophile the pedophile is protected by the state??? You are mixed up.

The law applies to a person who CONFESSES to his clergy that he committed a crime.

TO THE FOLKS THAT RECEIVE THE VIRUS - can you help us identify it so that people won't stop leaving their email addresses? These people would like us to not communicate.

TO "STOP SPREADING LIES. YOU ARE WORSE THAN APOSTATES" - I say to you : stop spreading hatefulness, you are hurting Jehovah's spirit. Really you are.

There are worse things than being called apostate by a jerk such as being so closed off from own thinking that you can't comprehend the truth of what is being said.

We are not offended that you are so offended - you are pitiful. You are making an ass of yourself. Does it not say in the bible that we are to look at all sides of the matter before responding??? Or do you really believe there is only one side to the story and the other side is a lie???? Stop making a fool of yourself. Read Proverbs, say your prayers and go to bed like a good little boy. Or maybe you are a pedophile afraid that you are loosing control of your resource ?? MMMMMM.....maybe that is what you are:

COMMON BOND: That was very good of Common Bond to clear up the matter of their link to this site. I'm sure we all believed that "William Bowen" was endorsing Common Bond in his "spare time." Another tactic to 'DIVIDE PEOPLE AND CAUSE DIVISION" and not trust anyone but the WTS. How stupid.

GOOD IDEA ABOUT THE CANDLES. Bill: maybe you could raise money by having ads on the site? Or a ad sponsor section for us to view.

I downloaded the letter from United Nations - feel like nailing it to the KH door. I have not authenticated but I will.

The stories are heartbreaking. Truly heartbreaking. Amen

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
06:36:15
Comments

The WT Org are still shouting about the end of this wicked system, But I for one think it will be the end of their evil Org and all the lies and deceits that go along with it. The web had opened up a whole new ball game , people aren't as dumb as they use to be, and the info on the net and this site will certainly make a few think twice about getting involved.What I find most amazing is these people who profess to be lovers of God can commit these acts to another human being, in a lot of cases their own flesh and blood.If it truly was Gods organization on earth, don't you think that God would have got all the prophecies right first time , like he did to Moses,noah,ect.they didn't have to wait for NEW light..LOL..and don't you think he would enlighten the 144,000 left here on earth at this present time of what was going on with child/wife abuse within the borg, like he did to lot in Sodom and Gomorrah..Strange don't you think??How naive can we be to be taken in with such a load of trash.If anyone would like to chat, or need someone to talk to please don't hesitate to look our community up on the msn.chat room listings worldwide web..JehovahWitnessRecovery..chatroom, for XJWs and friends..with Christian love Pinkcloud..ps.wonderful job you are doing, keep up the good fight

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
09:38:30
Comments

I've been reading the stories and they are interesting. It is hard to get over years of pain. A friend of mine had me to look at this site. I've been doing research in regards to both sides. I did a brief survey with several Jehovah's Witnesses that I know about the issue. A good many of them watched the Dateline program. Which goes to show that some of these witnesses believe in some teachings of the Watchtower but at the same time they do have a mind of their own in that if their leaders dictate that they should not do this or that in regards to what television programs to watch and other things,they have enough sense to make up their own minds and not be guided by men.

I'm shocked about that since people say that it is a cult.

I did a survey and asked them did they think that the policy needed to be changed?

With the group that was willing to take the survey stated and felt that if that happened in their family, they would take responsibility and report it to the police on their own. They stated that the policy that Bill want to put into effect is claimed to be followed by the Watchtower Society. The problem is that the elders in these congregations are not following it. The Watchtower makes the rules, but if the people that are put in these positions are not following it,then you have a problem.

(*I guess that is why Bill is having a problem proving his point. The Watchtower feels that the policy he is talking about is in effect already.So what is there to change? Think about it.)

The ones I interviewed think the policy should be: *The elders that do not follow the guidelines regarding child abuse, will be deleted of all responsibilities.

The ones that I interviewed don't care if a elder tell them don't go to the police. If their child has been abused by someone in the congregation family member or not, they are going to the police.

I went over again some of the issues in the Dateline program and they feel that if you have a list of 23,000 molesters and if the Watchtower did not turn in that information to the police, you have the obligation to turn it in to the police.

The last questions I asked was Did they feel that the Watchtower was "God's Prophet on Earth?" The answer was: The Watchtower is only a legal agency that Jehovah's Witnesses use if some look at it as a God, then they are in error.

and I asked about the 1975 issue it was interesting to note that not all witnesses thought that 1975 was the end of the world. That was not taught everywhere. They admitted that(some) taught that,but they never believed it. How interesting.

So, from my research I came to the conclusion that there are different beliefs among the Jehovah's Witnesses. Since the organization change their rules so much. For instance,the one that left in 1975 might believe one thing, the one in 2002 believe another. Some that quote information from the 1940's that Jehovah Witnesses believed, is altogether new in 2002.

So next year we don't know what they might believe. Many of you are just going by what happened during the time period you were in there. My heart goes out to you anyway. I just wanted to past my information on to you anyway. I'm writing it for the summer semester.

College Student

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
10:35:48
Comments

TO CHRISTOPHER SCOTT..........

Wow, someone I actually knew at one time!!! Chris, I vaguely recall hearing rumors about your family, and "claims of abuse". But that's all I remember, since I always tried to stay away from gossip. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if you my own father, Mel Thoman, was very involved in your case in some form since he was and still is an elder there. And, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if my own father weren't the elder who said your situation was a "petty problem". It sounds much like him, unfortunately.

I'm glad to see you are still happily married and with children. I'm so sorry you went through all you experienced, my own family has been affected personally as well. My own son, while we living in Palatine,Illinois was anally raped many times (by John Milenger) and he was only in the second grade. My son, now twenty years old, is soon to be released from juvenile jail after serving four out of twenty years for molesting my youngest daughter. My son served his time, but John Milenger simply died of heart failure many years ago, which in my opinion is too easy a death for someone who ruined my little boy and caused him to eventually molest his own little sister.

My heart goes out to you Christopher, and my thoughts are with you and your wife and children.

Linda Thoman DF'd in '95 Thank God!!!!!

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
10:39:00
Comments

To Margaret Silvia: I use to attend the Stoughton Kingdom Hall. I left because of abuse that went unreported. Those people who have been abused will have to live with that for the rest of their lives. That organization and congregation foster an environment where molestation flourishes in secrecy. Please open your eyes to what is going on in that congregation as well as in the organization.

Name Withheld

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
10:55:25
Comments

I just feel that if you were really sincere in what you were doing you would not be asking for money, especially the Visa Mastercard button that does not disappear. I don't expect anyone to read this because obviously you wont post it

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
10:57:13
Comments

College Student,

Here are some quotes from Watchtower magazines and various publications by the WTBTS:

The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT, 7-1879, 7-8).

The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT, 6-1-1952, 338).

The men of Sodom will be resurrected (WT 8-1-1965, 479).

The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (WT 6-1-1988, 31).

The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Live Forever, early ed., 179).

The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Live Forever, later ed., 179).

The men of Sodom will be resurrected (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, 985).

The men of Sodom will not be resurrected (Revelation: Its Grand Climax at Hand! 273).

This is but one example of the editors of the publications changing dogma. Which is it? Are the men of Sodom and Gomorrah going to be resurrected or not? They cannot decide on that.

Not that they should. Who are they to judge a group of people almost 7000 years ago?

Regarding 1975. I was there. I can find many Watchtower and Awake magazine articles that reference the year 1975. The society only back tracked when nothing happened in 1975. People sold businesses and property, quit jobs, dropped out of school and spent money in a frenzy because Armageddon was coming in the fall of 1975. They even gave us the time of year.

Just like they did with 1914, 1918 and 1925.

There is soooo much documentation on these failed prophecies that it is laughable.

The argument that they are men and will have failings is a weak argument. They are telling people that they are the "faithful and discreet slave" and what they say is inspired.

>>>Is not the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society the one and only channel which the Lord has used in dispensing his truth continually since the beginning of the harvest period?>>>

Watchtower 1919 April 1 p.6414

A group of imperfect men who get so many dates wrong, cannot be God's only channel in dispensing his truth.

Do some research and discover the history of the Jehovah's Witnesses. You will be surprised by what you find.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
11:03:06
Comments

When I heard about the Dateline program and started visiting this website, I told myself that I would let someone else fight the battle this time. My darling husband Christopher and I fought his battle 14 years ago and have a box full of letters to and from the Society, notes from meetings with elders, transcripts of conversations with relatives and elders, etc. All fruitless. It was like beating our heads against a concrete wall. My father, a well-respected older man of the Anointed class, supported my husband and, as a consequence, never again was given a part on a circuit or district convention. And once my husband stopped going to meetings, it was as though I was invisible. I actually had an elder ask me brightly, on my first visit to our new Kingdom Hall, "And who do you belong to?" Yes, I still go to meetings because I don't know of any other organization that teaches the Bible the way I believe to be true.

I STRONGLY disapprove of how the Society's current policies treat (or, rather, don't treat) the subject of child abuse, and I cannot keep silent. It would be so simple for the elders, when told by a victim of their abuse, to say "do you want to go to the police or shall I do it for you?" -- end of problem. And how hard would it be to show love to a battered little lamb? If a sheep is lost, does the shepherd wait for the sheep to call HIM before going to find it? Because of all the rules that the elders are told to follow, it has made them, for the most part -- there are still some very loving brothers who are trying hard and I think we're hearing from a lot of them in this website -- afraid to express an emotion other than censorship.

I hope that this outcry will reach the hearts of the honest-hearted brothers out there. I remember Br. Henschel from my childhood, when he was Zone Servant for the Caribbean, and I always had the impression of a very earnest, truthful person who wanted to do the right thing. I hope he still is.

Jesika, my dear little lamb, I remember you so well. It tore my heart out back in White Rock when you were on the platform with your sister, very dispiritedly talking about how all you did was go out in service. No fun, no normal childhood activities. And then to find out about all of the abuse -- sweetie, I firmly believe with all my heart that you have a special place in Jehovah's heart, as you do in mine. E-mail me if you like -- I'd love to hear from you and I would NEVER treat you like a ghost. Linda, I remember you too, and I am truly sorry that you have gone through so much with your family. We have an 8-year-old daughter and a 6-year-old son and the thought of anything happening to them makes us both rather homicidal. I can only imagine the pain you've been through.

Lots of love to all on this website, Christina Scott (formerly Presley; Bibbee before that) cscott@mckoolsmith.com

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
11:31:49
Comments

TO CHRISTOPHER SCOTT:

HI, my name is Jesika Thoman,I'm the oldest daughter of Michael Thoman. I remember as a child going over to your house. For some reason what sticks out is playing where is Carmen San Diego on the computer. I didn't have any memories of you or your wife until I saw your name(the one before you changed it). My aunt has already told you about her run in with sexual abuse, and how she believes our family was probably involved in saying some harsh things to you(my grandfather Mel and maybe even my dad). The irony is that Mel's youngest son(mike is the oldest of 6 children) molested me when I was 4. My family even now(most of the Thoman's) still refuse to address the issue since it was "so long ago". I was disfellowshipped when I turned 15,I'm 26 now and I have an 8yr old son. My younger sister Charice is 24 inactive and has a 3yr old son. My parents are divorced and they are both remarried. My mom Vilma is no longer attending meetings and has married a "worldly" man. I'm glad you are still married, I remember your wife was really nice and we enjoyed being around her. I bet she is a great mom!!!! Are you still in the Dallas area? I'm glad you didn't listen to what the elders told you, they were wrong. It's nice to see that you have moved on with your life. With love-

Jesika Thoman--WHITE ROCK CONG. DALLAS,TX

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
11:58:39
Comments

I would like to add that anyone on this site should look into Meghan's Law. This law was enacted in California. Go to google.com and type in Meghan's Law. You will find it. Research it.

I would like to see addressed, by a practicing witness, why "lay clergy" are allowed to do family counseling?

The elders are uneducated and untrained in issues of family and counseling. Why are elders and the society getting involved in this? These molestation charges are criminal. I do not know of any JW who is a police officer.

If you are a practicing JW, please address this.

I was raised in the truth and am third generation. I know the rules and background.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
12:33:34
Comments

I love this web site my congratulations to you!!! it's about time that the people that say that they are the mediator between us and God get what they deserve all they do is brainwash people it's time they get exposed just like the Catholics am tire of hear them say they are the only one religion and the truth and them hide this horrendous crimes they are doing,i almost fell into their trap was studying for yrs but never got baptized but a lot of my family is in the church of JW's this will give me lots of information to tell them how much part of this world of Satan they are too.....thanks

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
13:32:20
Comments

06 Jun 2002 10:55:25

God does not dole out money from heaven. Bill is one man. This site is not for entertainment or just to bash JW's or ex-JW's. Bill with in reason has allowed each of us to decide our own conduct. Some people have shown restraint, others have been rageful. I have had feeling on both sides of that fence. This site has a bigger purpose than the WT. It is here to serve violated children. This site can if used correctly break the cycle of abuse. In child molestation the victim often later becomes the abuser. The same id true for physically abused children. If a boy sees his Father hit his mother then he often later hits his wife and his own children. Any male helpless to protect his mother from his Father's dark side will understand. Women who see their mother dominated mentally and physically often seeks males that are all to willing to provide that kind of lifestyle. It seems that the Jehovah's Witnesses breeds "Authority Personalities." That is sad. It is true that they by far not the only group that does. All patriarch societies do it to some extent. If I could only allow these people to see the Bible in "True" light instead of "new" light they would stop. Pathetically they (Meaning most people) still wish to use the Bible to justify their actions and beliefs. Thus the need to constant change views.

I hope soon that we can all speak freely without being targeted by individuals or organizations who fear people who are only speaking honestly.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
14:41:46
Comments

I do not know what is sicker rapists or you turning your back on Jehovah God, and to make things even worst you are asking for donations!!!! You should know better that being a true Witness does not mean being perfect.It sadness me that you are doing this publicly to damage this beautiful organization and God's name

I hope you reconsider before is to late!

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
14:43:11
Comments

My friend is going to be mad with me for using her computer so much. But, she is the one that showed me this web-site. Whoever gave the list of documentation on the Watchtower, thanks for the help. I might use it in my paper. I have so much to work with.

It is unique as to how they change their teachings. The reason might be due to who was the President at the time and how they felt things should be operated, from what I read. Or the reason could lie on the person/persons that wrote these subjects. Who knows, there might have been different people that wrote these subjects and they were writing as to how they thought it should go. or The real ugly reason could be to confuse the ones that left. If you try to bring out a point that the Watchtower said, lets say in 1919,1950,1975 I can go on and on. They can say with ease "We don't believe that anymore!" "Look at what we believe now!" so the information that you are using to prove your point is useless. The information might be what they believed then, but they don't believe it now. Someone told me that they are not mailing Watchtowers no more, maybe the reason is that if the outsiders don't know what is going on inside, all the outsiders can do is rely on old information which is out of date.

All of what I'm saying is just my theory. It is something to think about.

Thanks again for your info whoever you are. When I get my degree. I'm working hard to finish school. I might write a book on Human Behavior dealing with mind control as to how far can one be influenced or let themselves be influenced. I haven't figured out the title yet. I'm thinking about doing that but I'm not making any promises. I'll be glad when my computer get fixed.

College Student

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
15:06:55
Comments

Post from JW-media.org Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection

Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower, "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home", all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child Molesting—Every Mother's Nightmare," in the January 22, 1985, Awake!

When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.

If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant—is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future—what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.

In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. The child abuse reporting law may have changed; the man may have even married the girl! Both have been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.

Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer.

The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
15:07:21
Comments

Post from JW-media.org Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection

Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower, "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home", all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child Molesting—Every Mother's Nightmare," in the January 22, 1985, Awake!

When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.

If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant—is cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future—what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.—2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4.

In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. The child abuse reporting law may have changed; the man may have even married the girl! Both have been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.

Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer.

The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
15:27:26
Comments

Some of my in laws are JW's and I have been concerned about their contact with my children. They are only 3 and 5 with another on the way. I am very disturbed by the information about the watchtower/witnesses and the aggressive recruiting they do.

-David Sutton-Brown Ashby, Massachusetts USA

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
15:29:45
Comments

In response to:

"and to make things even worst you are asking for donations!!!! ""

So?? Do you think Jehovah will pay all the bills??*LOL*

Who do you think made is possible for the Watch Tower Society to become one of the wealthiest businesses in New York????? Who do you think paid for all their real estate????? Jehovah???*LOL*

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
15:58:22
Comments

Do you know who the enemies of Christ were? It was not the sinners. They loved him. It was the Religious establishment. They feared him because he threatened their power, their control over people.

You can make accusations that going against the doctrine of the WT as equal to going against God himself. You will have my pity for doing so. I understand that is what you have been programmed to do. You ask me to turn back before it is too late. I however found the Loving Father a long time ago maybe I should say HE found me. I don't need you for a guide. Thanks for the offer but I am not buying crazy today.

Here is a challenge for you Make friends with Jesus Christ today.

And yes, if the Government will not protect our children and the church is unwilling to do it then the duty falls on us as individuals to do it. That is the way it always has been and the way that it will always be. Supporting Silentlambs is a way that our voices unite and were there is unity there is Christ. Where there is only uniformity there exists evil and fear.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
16:37:43
Comments

I was a JW for 15 years, my husband abused me, cheated on me even putting a gun to my head twice, also threatening our children's lives. The Elders discouraged highly not to go outside the church for help, yet they themselves were not capable of helping. I spent many years crying myself to sleep. I'm now out and remarried to a very loving man. Deanne Skola Dee4Robb@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
18:45:57
Comments

Congratulations on this site. JW had to spoke one day about all that victims. A lot of people support this site, I applaud to you.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
18:54:41
Comments

I just found out about this site through the latest newscast of stories of Jaws who were abused on Dateline. I was totally outraged, but not surprised. I have a close friend who was abused by an elder in our hall when we were young. And she now is just starting to deal with her past.

I am so happy that this site exists and want to help as much as possible. I am an inactive JW, because of many reasons such as this one. I wish all of the victims the best. And hope that by coming out and speaking about your past that you are on the road to recovery.

Sincerely, Your fellow friend

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
19:09:26
Comments

Greetings all "Silent Lambs", Please visit my new website venture aimed at a group I have a sincere warm place in my heart for. http://www.gayxjw.org Thanks for your support.

Bill Bowen silentlambs.com

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
19:13:48
Comments

Greetings all "Silent Lambs", Please visit my new website venture aimed at a group I have a sincere warm place in my heart for. http://www.gayxjw.org Thanks for your support.

Bill Bowen silentlambs.com

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
19:13:56
Comments

Greetings all "Silent Lambs", Please visit my new website venture aimed at a group I have a sincere warm place in my heart for. http://www.gayxjw.org Thanks for your support.

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
19:14:04
Comments

Greetings all "Silent Lambs", Please visit my new website venture aimed at a group I have a sincere warm place in my heart for. http://www.gayxjw.org Thanks for your support.

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
19:14:13
Comments

Greetings all "Silent Lambs", Please visit my new website venture aimed at a group I have a sincere warm place in my heart for. http://www.gayxjw.org Thanks for your support.

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
19:14:21
Comments

Greetings all "Silent Lambs", Please visit my new website venture aimed at a group I have a sincere warm place in my heart for. http://www.gayxjw.org Thanks for your support.

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
20:09:48
Comments

Whoever keeps posting the link to the gay site and signing Bill's name to it is extremely immature!!!! Whether this is a child or an adult acting like a child don't waste your time, we know it's not Bill posting that. Don't you have anything better to do with your time??? Here's an idea--GROW UP!!!!!!!

Jesika Thoman ---Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
20:10:19
Comments

Whoever keeps posting the link to the gay site and signing Bill's name to it is extremely immature!!!! Whether this is a child or an adult acting like a child don't waste your time, we know it's not Bill posting that. Don't you have anything better to do with your time??? Here's an idea--GROW UP!!!!!!!

Jesika Thoman ---Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
20:10:28
Comments

Whoever keeps posting the link to the gay site and signing Bill's name to it is extremely immature!!!! Whether this is a child or an adult acting like a child don't waste your time, we know it's not Bill posting that. Don't you have anything better to do with your time??? Here's an idea--GROW UP!!!!!!!

Jesika Thoman ---Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
22:03:36
Comments

So if a JW confesses to an elder that he is molesting children and repents, then he is off the hook. No counseling, no treatment of any sort not even a slap on the hand...and what about the child? It seems like all the people I have read about that were abused pretty much were the victim in more ways that one. There is forgiveness in repentance, but that is why Jesus Christ had to die, because we are sinners and fall short time after time.

I wonder if one of these elders who holds to "keeping it in the church walls" sort of thing had a JW brother come to him and ask for forgiveness because he had been molesting that particular elders daughter!!!!! It's not so easy to hold to the rules when it's your own.

COLLEGE STUDENT: Keep up your study on the deceitful ways of the JW's - a great book is "REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES WITH THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES BY RON RHODES" Excellent commentary and proof of twisting scripture even in their own new world translation. Excellent teachings that leads us back to the Greek words and how the Watchtower continually changes scripture to fit the society today.

It is so important to check into the history of where the religion you rely on for eternal salvation had derived from. Check into the founder of the JW's Charles Taze Russell. That is really something! From what I understand, the JW's would rather he just didn't even exist...they are ashamed of their own founder and their first real "link" to god. (Gimme a break)

In Christ's loving name...

Kandy

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
22:10:09
Comments

To the one who keeps on bashing the proprietor of this site. Take a moment to reflect on your behavior. Know that God knows its you that is doing it and you can't hide from God. We already know its you and not Mr Bowen doing this. He has already stated he is not affiliated with ANY other site so shame on you for your childish ways, the only one your hurting is yourself.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
22:14:27
Comments

Hello, I cant say my name because of a civil suit which I started against the society 4 years ago. At that time there was so internet support like I see you have here today. This web site was like a miracle to me. I too thought I was alone. My father abused me from the time I was 13. I too went to the elders and was told to keep it quiet. Even the bethel sent letters to my congregation to keep me quiet. It was a big issue at the time. I have suffered a lot from it. All of my family and relatives are JW's, so it has been a hard few years. My lawsuit goes to trial in a few months. I have passed on this web page to my lawyer here in Canada, so that he will get a better idea of the society's stance on abuse. Thank-you to all of you who have left your stories. If this all works out well for me I will be able to go public with it soon. I want them to pay, just as I have paid with my life. needs_lots

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
22:14:33
Comments

Hello, I cant say my name because of a civil suit which I started against the society 4 years ago. At that time there was so internet support like I see you have here today. This web site was like a miracle to me. I too thought I was alone. My father abused me from the time I was 13. I too went to the elders and was told to keep it quiet. Even the bethel sent letters to my congregation to keep me quiet. It was a big issue at the time. I have suffered a lot from it. All of my family and relatives are JW's, so it has been a hard few years. My lawsuit goes to trial in a few months. I have passed on this web page to my lawyer here in Canada, so that he will get a better idea of the society's stance on abuse. Thank-you to all of you who have left your stories. If this all works out well for me I will be able to go public with it soon. I want them to pay, just as I have paid with my life. needs_lots

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
23:19:09
Comments

TO LINDA THOMAN:

Thank you for your postings and your kind words. I am truly sorry for what happened to your son. I've read it several times now and it hurts each time. I think I remember him, and I'm sorry now I didn't get to know you guys a little better. I spoke with Jesika this afternoon, and I told her to please pass my phone number and email on to you. I would like to hear from you, if you want. Either way, I hope things are going well for you now.

It's funny. All that anger and bitterness I had toward White Rock is slipping away. All I can think about now is what a waste. I feel such sadness for victims and survivors here. All those lives changed, all that heartache and for what?

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
23:19:48
Comments

TO LINDA THOMAN:

Thank you for your postings and your kind words. I am truly sorry for what happened to your son. I've read it several times now and it hurts each time. I think I remember him, and I'm sorry now I didn't get to know you guys a little better. I spoke with Jesika this afternoon, and I told her to please pass my phone number and email on to you. I would like to hear from you, if you want. Either way, I hope things are going well for you now.

It's funny. All that anger and bitterness I had toward White Rock is slipping away. All I can think about now is what a waste. I feel such sadness for victims and survivors here. All those lives changed, all that heartache and for what?

Chris Scott

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
23:42:02
Comments

Someone wrote: "Remote User: Date: 03 Jun 2002 Time: 10:25:27 Comments The answer is simple. Consider the situation with the Catholics. Why are priests even around children. They shouldn't be.

If the complaints are about Witnesses? Why is anyone not the parent around a child.

So people, stop complaining and don't let your children be around anyone but the parents."

*****Unfortunately, in the majority of cases it is the parents, or close relatives, which are the abusers. Not a good answer.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
23:44:58
Comments

Hi again,

Some wrote in about the preaching and how all servants of Jehovah are to preach. There are many ways to preach with out being sent out door to door. LETTER WRITING; PHONE CALLS ETC. I get very tired of hearing how the society protects children when they don't. These people who write this should have the be children in our congregations for a year. Then we will see if they still spout the same message...That I doubt. A change of heart will be in order.

It is the same with going to the meetings. We are expected to be there even thou the pedophiles who molested our children still attend and sit across from them. I ask how is this protecting the children? A lot of victims and their families have to listen on the phone to hear the meetings. Really these so call changed pedophiles should be the ones to listen on the phone since it is their behavior that has caused the problem!! Maybe if the access to the children at the kingdom halls was taken away we might see how many are really repentant. I think a lot would not bother and look else where.

If these pedophiles had to make a public confess in front of the entire congregation I don't think a lot would stick around. To practice their perversion they need to be anonymous and keep it secret. A list of these pedophiles should be kept where publishers have access so the know who they are. I would go along way to protect the children!

The secrecy allows them to operate in relative freedom. This web site is breaking the silence around this issue. Thanks again. Its been needed for so long!!! DJB

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
23:47:53
Comments

HEY CHRIS!!!!!!!

It's me Jesika. I'm glad to see you on the site again. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and wasn't really ready to stop. I am also glad to see your name on here, I know it isn't an easy thing to do for a lot of people. It made me feel like I made a difference when you told me why you decided to. To think if I hadn't put my name on here I still wouldn't have been able to talk to you or Cristina. I'm so looking forward to running up and giving you a BIG HUG!!!!!

With lots of Love,

Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
06 Jun 2002
Time:
23:48:03
Comments

HEY CHRIS!!!!!!!

It's me Jesika. I'm glad to see you on the site again. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation and wasn't really ready to stop. I am also glad to see your name on here, I know it isn't an easy thing to do for a lot of people. It made me feel like I made a difference when you told me why you decided to. To think if I hadn't put my name on here I still wouldn't have been able to talk to you or Cristina. I'm so looking forward to running up and giving you a BIG HUG!!!!!

With lots of Love,

Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
00:49:19
Comments

GUESS WHAT???!!!!!

I found a Guestbook for ex-JW's. The owner of the site approves the entries before they are posted. I guess to keep those from attacking the ones on the site-I really don't know for sure. Anyways it's:

escapefromwatchtower.com I found it searching on Yahoo. Just an option, no offence Bill!!!! I like to read as many stories as I can. Thank you so much Bill, you have changed many lives!!!!!

Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
00:49:52
Comments

GUESS WHAT???!!!!!

I found a Guestbook for ex-JW's. The owner of the site approves the entries before they are posted. I guess to keep those from attacking the ones on the site-I really don't know for sure. Anyways it's:

escapefromwatchtower.com I found it searching on Yahoo. Just an option, no offence Bill!!!! I like to read as many stories as I can. Thank you so much Bill, you have changed many lives!!!!!

Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
00:50:10
Comments

GUESS WHAT???!!!!!

I found a Guestbook for ex-JW's. The owner of the site approves the entries before they are posted. I guess to keep those from attacking the ones on the site-I really don't know for sure. Anyways it's:

escapefromwatchtower.com I found it searching on Yahoo. Just an option, no offence Bill!!!! I like to read as many stories as I can. Thank you so much Bill, you have changed many lives!!!!!

Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
01:35:01
Comments

DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE THE TIME AND DAY OF THE MSNBC DATELINE RE-BROADCAST? ALSO..IN RESPONSE TO THE JW'S WHO THINK THE SOCIETY HAS CHANGED THEIR POLICY OF REPORTING ABUSE. THE CONG. LETTER SAYS "IN STATES WHERE IT IS REQUIRED TO REPORT, THE ELDERS REPORT IT." DOES THIS MEAN THAT IN THOSE 16 STATES THE ABUSER IS A CRIMINAL BUT IN THE OTHER 34 STATES HE IS NOT?? IS SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN AN ACT OF IMMORALITY? IF YOU ANSWERED YES, THEN DOES THIS MEAN THAT JW MOLESTERS ARE IMMORAL IN THOSE 16 STATES BUT NOT IN THE OTHER 34??? DO WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO REPORT A NEIGHBOR OR RELATIVE WHO IS BEATING AND PHYSICALLY ABUSING A CHILD?....EVEN IF IT IS NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED OR DO WE SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR THE CHILD TO DIE???? DON'T WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN IN THE KH??? THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT ERIKA IN OTHELLO! THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT MOLESTING!! THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT COVERING IT UP!! THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT NOT DISCIPLINING THE ABUSER!! IT IS ABOUT SHUNNING THE VICTIM AND THE VICTIMS FAMILY AND SUPPORTING THE MOLESTER!!! IT IS ABOUT HUNDREDS OF VICTIMS WHO HAVE BEEN WRONGED OVER YEARS. ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE WRONG, WICKED, DESPICABLE ACTS AND SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED BY ELDERS, CO'S, CONGREGATIONS, THE GOVERNING BODY OR INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE CONG. NOW WHEN I GO THE KH I WILL BE WONDERING WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN ABUSE ISSUES, I WILL WONDER WHICH ELDERS COVERED IT UP, I WILL WONDER WHICH PERSON HAS BEEN ABUSED BY SOMEONE HIM OR HER TRUSTED IN THE ORGANIZATION. WHAT A SAD TIME FOR JEHOVAH'S'S PEOPLE AND FOR THOSE WHO CAN NOT OPEN THEIR EYES LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THE TRUTH IN THESE STORIES. YES WE ARE ALL IMPERFECT BUT THESE ARE NOT MISTAKES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT....THESE ARE CRIMINAL ACTS, IN MANY CASES A PRACTICE OF CRIMINALITY. WHAT IS MORE CRIMINAL AND IMMORAL.....THE ABUSER OR THOSE WHO COVER IT UP, ALLOWING THE ABUSER TO CONTINUE ABUSING AND SHUNNING THE ABUSED. NOT ONLY ARE JEHOVAH'S'S PEOPLE (THE ONES WITH OPENED EYES) SADDENED...BUT HOW SADDENED MUST JEHOVAH'S BE...WHO CREATED ALL THINGS. JAZBUG55@AOL.COM

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
01:37:43
Comments

DOES ANYONE KNOW FOR SURE THE TIME AND DAY OF THE MSNBC DATELINE RE-BROADCAST? ALSO..IN RESPONSE TO THE JW'S WHO THINK THE SOCIETY HAS CHANGED THEIR POLICY OF REPORTING ABUSE. THE CONG. LETTER SAYS "IN STATES WHERE IT IS REQUIRED TO REPORT, THE ELDERS REPORT IT." DOES THIS MEAN THAT IN THOSE 16 STATES THE ABUSER IS A CRIMINAL BUT IN THE OTHER 34 STATES HE IS NOT?? IS SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN AN ACT OF IMMORALITY? IF YOU ANSWERED YES, THEN DOES THIS MEAN THAT JW MOLESTERS ARE IMMORAL IN THOSE 16 STATES BUT NOT IN THE OTHER 34??? DO WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO REPORT A NEIGHBOR OR RELATIVE WHO IS BEATING AND PHYSICALLY ABUSING A CHILD?....EVEN IF IT IS NOT LEGALLY REQUIRED ? OR DO WE SIT BACK AND WAIT FOR THE CHILD TO DIE???? DON'T WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN IN THE KH??? THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT ERIKA IN OTHELLO! THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT MOLESTING!! THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT COVERING IT UP!! THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT NOT DISCIPLINING THE ABUSER!! IT IS ABOUT SHUNNING THE VICTIM AND THE VICTIMS FAMILY AND SUPPORTING THE MOLESTER!!! IT IS ABOUT HUNDREDS OF VICTIMS WHO HAVE BEEN WRONGED OVER MANY YEARS. ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE WRONG, WICKED, DESPICABLE ACTS AND SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED BY ELDERS, CO'S, CONGREGATIONS, THE GOVERNING BODY OR INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF THE CONG. NOW WHEN I GO THE KH I WILL BE WONDERING WHO HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN ABUSE ISSUES, I WILL WONDER WHICH ELDERS COVERED IT UP, I WILL WONDER WHICH PERSON HAS BEEN ABUSED BY SOMEONE HIM OR HER TRUSTED IN THE ORGANIZATION. WHAT A SAD TIME FOR JEHOVAH'S'S PEOPLE AND FOR THOSE WHO CAN NOT OPEN THEIR EYES LONG ENOUGH TO SEE THE TRUTH IN THESE STORIES. YES WE ARE ALL IMPERFECT BUT THESE ARE NOT MISTAKES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT....THESE ARE CRIMINAL ACTS, IN MANY CASES A PRACTICE OF CRIMINALITY. WHAT IS MORE CRIMINAL AND IMMORAL.....THE ABUSER OR THOSE WHO COVER IT UP, ALLOWING THE ABUSER TO CONTINUE ABUSING AND SHUNNING THE ABUSED. NOT ONLY ARE JEHOVAH'S'S PEOPLE (THE ONES WITH OPENED EYES) SADDENED...BUT HOW SADDENED MUST JEHOVAH'S BE...WHO CREATED ALL THINGS. JAZBUG55@AOL.COM

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
03:14:47
Comments

Just visited the web site escapefromwatchtower.com

Escapefromwatchtower can be offensive - a book is advertised there that says Jesus smoked dope! I am sure...anyway it challenges everything from the bible, paradise, go ahead and put up a tree etc...it was overwhelming and commercial to me.

Personally for me , the bible is my life saver, God is my father and protector and the 10 commandments are so simple - this has been my refuge from the WTS & KH. I am not interested in giving these things up then I would really have no place to go.

I have found great comfort in the silentlambs. Just reading the process that everyone is going through and how you are coping is a comfort to me. The expressions on this site are from the heart. I like it here even though I am cut to the heart.

Silentlambs is a quiet safe place to come to even though the lambs are screaming. There is nothing here to distract, interject our thoughts except for the few jerks. There is a lot of sweet compassion, outrage at the injustices -pure unrighteousness. Anyway I trust it here and find it a safe place to share without anyone pushing an agenda.

Thank you Bill for this "quiet" safe place for the lambs to scream. I am not a surfer of the web, don't have the time for that. This is the only place I come. I am Ashamed of how I let them manipulate me and spiritually abuse me and the nasty habits I picked up there at the KH.

I was very distraught last October?? prayed silently for Jehovah's direction and to clear up a matter of being aware that is was not safe at the KH and I was believing that I was going to lose God's favor. I was scared and alone. By mere chance or in answer to my prayer I found Silentlambs. I called Bill and he spent much time with me on the phone, recommended I read Cults and Mind Control. Talking with Bill made me feel sane again and not as scared of what I sensed about the lack of safety. Anyway, Jehovah does answer prayers and He exists separate from the KH & WTS and so do I!

Because of Bill, the silentlambs who scream, the couple of books recommended I am doing much much better since last October.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
09:37:50
Comments

I am absolutely overwhelmed by this horrifying tragedy! I hope the Society pays dearly for their limited insight and reasoning power. Way to go Bill and Erika, GIVE THEM A COUPLE OF BLACK EYES.

Willie R. wirees71@aol.com zenreese@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
10:36:13
Comments

And the Silent Lambs will scream, until something is done. It's about time this country, the world, the media, parents, religious leaders, and the everyday rank and file hear these screams. No more pushing it under the rug because of reproach, embarrassment, etc. Why do the JW's think they are better than the Catholics in that their injustices should be hidden? It's not about religion, or these other things. It's about the truth of light.

Jehovah has felt the pain of the children, and finally feels the time is right to cleanse *every* organization of its filth.

These injustices shall no more be suffered in the shadows with agonizing silence, but shall be brought into the vindicating and freeing light of truth. All of the perpetrators of these great tragedies shall slink back into the darkness and retreat to more hospitable places than organized religion.

Unfortunately for some, if not most, of the survivors, Caesar's law is not encompassing enough to catch the perpetrators. Statutes of limitations will be brought in defense. However, this can be changed. I urge everyone, if living in states that do not require reporting of this abhorrent, sinful, and disgusting acts, to write your congressional leaders and demand that laws be changed. I also urge everyone to write these same leaders and demand that statutes of limitations be extended to 10 years after the abuse is reported.

The JW's say we should leave it all up to Jehovah, that when his time is right, he will demand an accounting. I am sure Jehovah would tell us to try to protect who we can now.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
10:53:42
Comments

HI there,

How come we do not see the witnesses on Newspapers or Magazines like the Catholics. It is about time they get exposed or getting sued. I did not hear any thing since May 28, 2002 after the Dateline coverage. We/I want to see them admit their mistakes in front of millions of people around the world. Come on guys help us here. Mr. Bowen, go after them as soon as possible. You got the proofs from many witnesses and I do not understand why do we have to wait till they get exposed. Let's get them and stop the hurting at the same time find justice from North America to Asia who knows in Antarctica too. My best advice is, let's expose them like the Catholics did? why wait? They are saying it is trial and tribulation of the world but look what a mess they have to clean up! Please Mr.Bown do not wait too long because it is fresh news now before it becomes outdated tomorrow becomes outdated.

Sincerely yours, Brandy braun_brandy@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
10:53:50
Comments

I have a website with a few free issues of The Post-Traumatic Gazette which some of your readers might find helpful. Here's a quote from my issue on PTSD and Spirituality: "...true repentance (“To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins.”) is not just words, particularly not just the words, “I'm sorry. I'll never do it again.” Repentance is also paying for therapy for the abused person and getting therapy or whatever it takes so the offense is never repeated. Religious leaders who encourage hitting children, especially breaking their spirit and demanding instant obedience, are also spiritually abusing their congregations. They participate in the creation of a new generation of victims, traumatized numb people who can't tell when they are hurting others." I also think it is spiritual abuse to say only we have the truth. If God created everything, God also created all the different religions and spiritual paths, so everyone can find what they need. It is human beings who say this is the only way (i.e. give me your money and faith and kids). this is easier to see when you look at another religion than at one's own. Patience Mason Editor and Publisher The Post -Traumatic Gazette www.patiencepress.com ptg@patiencepress.com

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
11:31:27
Comments

hi there,

When is the next Dateline coverage scheduled. Please if you have any info email it to me.

Ted_santa@lycos.com

Thanks, Ted

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
12:16:39
Comments

To those who have not read the letters from the society on this page, take the time to read the advice from them on a confessed murderer and a known pedophile. They act as if smoking pot was more of a problem than the confession of unsolved murders and heaven forbid it cause his wife or him any problem. Again no regard for the families seeking justice in the cases. I am sick, actually nauseated, that I could have EVER associated with such an evil organization. I WILL NEVER TRUST any organized religion ever. I will putter in my flowers and take delight in the wonders of nature created by God, I will laugh with innocent children and I will avoid the machinations of those who seek power of those same children, namely the society and those weak disgusting men that Lord that they are in touch with Jehovah's will. Well obviously they are on the receiving end of some direction.Did they ever stop to think that they are more in league with Satan? Reminds me of the religious leaders that burned innocents with their bibles hmmmm To think I thought they were a moral,respectful influence once LOL Now I understand why I was so shocked when a PIONEER SISTER asked me if I thought my fiance could take care of me sexually. I was stunned, since we had a chaste courtship a few kisses until the honeymoon, I was stunned. Now I realize she wasn't alone in her weird depraved thinking.... To all Silentlambs my heart and tears go out to you, may they be the first to crumble not you.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
12:20:03
Comments

An Open Letter To My Parents:

Mom and Dad, June 6, 2002

For many reasons, I feel compelled to write and express a few things to you.

First of all, I'm engaged. No date has been set. You both will surely be relieved to know he's white. I remember only too well comments made by mom about Alicia's interest in marrying a black man, as if there's something strange or weird about it. Like, “Why can't she find a nice white brother?” And to think the society is always saying it's a “world-wide-brotherhood”. I guess it's possible, just don't try to marry my son or daughter, right?

Dad, I remember when I was very young being “daddy's little girl”, sitting on your lap in your recliner. I remember when Andre was very little, being my sweet little baby boy. Until John Milenger ruined my second-grader, by many times over sodomizing my little boy in the elders private office at the KH of a “world-wide brotherhood”. Then, threatening him if he spoke out. He kept quiet for so many years, suffering in silence. I know what it means to keep quiet for many years, but my fear of speaking out is gone forever. I'm not afraid of the threat to be disfellowshipped, as it means nothing to me. I celebrated the night it was announced years ago. I've never been more free and happy than I am now.

I remember vividly how safe and secure I felt being daddy's little girl. But that day ended very abruptly and emotionally devastated me the day I told you and mom what Mike Earhardt did to me. My life changed that day, my security being daddy's little girl ended and my self-esteem was severely damaged. I remember vividly running home, with Keith in tow, running into the house and immediately telling you what Mike had done. I even had my torn shirt to show you. But, before I could even get the whole story out, you yelled at me for making up such a horrible story and that I had really just been playing outside on my way home from school and tore my shirt and how I was trying to blame it on someone else. I was then sent to my room, with one swift kick on the butt while climbing the stairs. You never again brought up the subject with me after that. I know you asked Keith about it, but big deal. He was three years younger than I was, and he wasn't the one who had a grown man on top of him pulling on his shirt resulting in it being torn. Keith wasn't the one Mike was saying, “You know you want it, you know you want it”. As usual, it was swept under the rug, never to be brought up again. At least, not by you.

I find it very ironic that several years later, you were willing to go to court because some stranger tried to lure me and a little friend of mine into his car, and we ran when we thought we saw him pull a gun. But wait, he wasn't a Witness so that makes all the difference, right? But, we appeared in court, but we left within minutes after someone in court spoke to you privately. Here I was the reason why we were there, but I was never told why we were leaving court, and what was said to you. I was simply told in the car to hush up. Never to be brought up ever again. You must have been thrilled, another case swept under the rug, and no one would ever have to know.

It taught me something…It taught me that when bad, even very bad, things happen to me I shouldn't tell anyone. What good would it do? For me, telling meant I got in trouble, not the person who hurt me. For Andre, telling meant he wasn't loved by God, which is what John told him as well as telling Andre that “this is how Jehovah wants us to show love for each other”. And you should be proud, Andre and I were both “very good little witnesses” ‘cause we both kept our mouths shut and didn't tell anyone, not one single solitary soul. But, my little baby girl Heather suffered for Andre's silence. Andre's silence wasn't broken until he was safe and secure behind prison bars for hurting Heather. Andre goes to jail for hurting Heather; John Milenger simply dies of heart problems; Keith………Oh yeah, he got off scott-free, didn't he Dad? He hurts Jesika, Mike actually walks in on it, and mums the word, right? Pathetic. Jesika is made to suffer in silence, so everyone else can carry on “normally” and no one is embarrassed. She lives her life “acting out” and no one seems to care about Why? But rather, let's disfellowship Jesika for comparatively minor things, but not look at the real cause of her behavior. Let's just disfellowship her and no one will ever be the wiser. You would say something like, “Just get over it”. Look a victim in the eyes, and try to explain to them why secrecy, silence and denial are more important than that child's pain and self-worth and safety. Or, like Scott Presley years ago being told that “Jehovah is too busy to be bothered by such petty problems”. I guess you elders have never been sodomized yourselves.

I hold you and every other elder, in every congregation, responsible for what happened to me, my children, my niece Jesika and many, many more victims that are now just beginning to speak out and not being silenced any longer. And to know that you had entertained the thought of going into a business adventure with Mike Earhardt back in the 80's, ripped my soul apart. I used to be, I repeat used to be daddy's little girl, but you took that away from me by believing Mike Earhardt over your own little girl.

Elders have been aware of pedophiles in congregations for many years, and have failed to warn parents, and my children and I have the emotional scars to show for it. You elders have held us children out as “little carrots” to bait pedophiles. I view elders as robots for the headquarters in New York. Programming every word and thought of elders, ministerial servants, down to the general audience, threatening with disfellowshipping anyone who dare speak out against secrets, lies, and victimizing policies. Simpleton robots programmed to ensure continued financial donations.

You should be proud, Dad. I was a good little girl and kept my dirty little secret so no one would be embarrassed. I did such a good job that I never told a single, solitary soul when my own brother, Mike, touched me. I won't keep quiet anymore. Mike was apparently a little too interested in his Biology/Health class in school and wanted to see for himself. He had our other brothers there to see too, except for Steve, who was the look-out. Looking for you or mom to come home. I remember thinking it seemed kind of funny that even though mom walked into Steve/Mike's room, finding all of us in there, and finding me in their closet buttoning and zipping my pants, that she never asked me one thing about it. Not one single thing.

I somehow learned from both Mike's that there must be something pretty interesting and important inside my pants for boys/men to want to see or touch it. I was so very young, but it didn't take me long to find out just what that was. One of my other brothers taught me. You and mom were so worried about me getting to the dating age, worried that I'd sleep with some boy, or with Javier. You were many, many years too late.

I'm so happy that Dateline and Bill Bowen are making it easier for us victims to speak out. No, they are helping us scream out what we've kept bottled up tight for way too long. No one will ever again shut me up. I've tried for many years to figure out how you, or any other elder, can blindly accept and fulfill every single rule coming from NY, when so many of us have suffered because of it. Then, I start to wonder…..Why is it that I know about my mother's childhood, but I know absolutely nothing about my father's childhood? When I mentioned many, many years ago having a desire to ask you about it, I was told under no uncertain terms not to. Is it possible that my father is so hard, unyielding, quick to anger and a belt, because of some horrible, perhaps dirty little secret he's kept swallowed inside of him since his childhood? I don't know. But I will not keep quiet any longer about the rampant abuse of children amongst the organization. I applaud every victim who stands and demands to be heard.

Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
12:41:59
Comments

Well done, I have just passed details of your site to the BBC in Manchester, they have a regular programme called "Sunday" in which they look at topical issues. I hope they contact you.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
13:31:29
Comments

Brandy,

I have mailed letters to Newspapers, and TV News groups all over the West coast. Do the same. Don't bother wasting time with writing the (WT). They have their heads so far up their butts I don't know how they breath. Don't ask why have they not ran stories? TELL THE NEWSPAPERS TO DO STORIES. Look at the Editorials. Write a story if you are a victim. Write a story if you are outraged. Take out a "Silentlambs" ad in your newspaper. That could be done for the cost of a latte or two per week. Most people don't know what goes on in the JW's. Most people just think that they are weird. Rape and Crisis clinics need to be aware of this cults desire to stop the reporting of crime, or getting any type of help. If you get help from the outside you are not depended on the creepy elerderoids for programming.

Don't ask; Why has something not been done? YOU DO SOMETHING! You do it. Take control of your life. You are responsible for it.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
14:08:03
Comments

Hello All!

My name is Charice Thoman. My sister Jesika, my aunt Linda, and good friends Christopher and Christina Scott, have all posted here in the last few days....and now it is time for me to speak out too.

I was raised in the White Rock congregation in Dallas, Tx. And might I say a cheery 'right on!!!' to Chistopher Scott! It was/is a ~VERY~ gossipy Hall! I grew up knowing my sister had been molested by my uncle. I also grew up knowing that this kind of behavior was not only tolerated, but excused by family and the elders. It was only a matter of time before I had to experience it for myself. At the age of about 5 or 6 I was molested by a brother, a family friend, from the same hall I grew up in. About 10 years later around the age of 16 I was sexually assaulted by a ministerial servant/regular pioneer from the Spring Valley Congregation in Richardson, Tx., in his family's house where I was to spend the night with his sister. When I took that case to the brothers, I had not 1, not 2, but 5 'witnesses' to 'testify' on my behalf in the elder's meeting. None of my witnesses were allowed in the meeting. The very next week he was back on the stage presenting prayer for all in attendance, all I could do was hold back my tears, and say nothing.

I have found so much peace in NOT being a JW!!! Stay strong..... Thank you for listening.... puertogerm@yahoo.com please feel free to write!!

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
14:20:07
Comments

Visited a site on Post Trauma Stress Syndrome- excellent and informative. Email address is patiencepress.com is the email address. She has four articles that can be printed for free. I left Patience information on how to contact Bill- hope they share info.

The sexual abuse causes Post Trauma Stress Syndrome absolutely does - that is the biggest symptom that destroys our lives. The anxiety, nightmares, hyper-vigilance, flashbacks are Post Trauma Stress.

My love to you all.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
14:39:46
Comments

IN RESPONSE TO JUNE 7 3:14

I was unaware of the offensive comments on that sight. I went straight to the Guestbook, and that was all I looked at. I am sorry I didn't further investigate the site itself!!!!!

To CHARICE THOMAN

WAY TO GO SIS!!!! Doesn't if feel great to get it off your chest and put it out there for everyone to see? It's a start and that's what it takes, for all of us to start telling what we have been told to keep silent!!!

With Love----Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx White Rock Cong.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
14:39:59
Comments

IN RESPONSE TO JUNE 7 3:14

I was unaware of the offensive comments on that sight. I went straight to the Guestbook, and that was all I looked at. I am sorry I didn't further investigate the site itself!!!!!

To CHARICE THOMAN

WAY TO GO SIS!!!! Doesn't if feel great to get it off your chest and put it out there for everyone to see? It's a start and that's what it takes, for all of us to start telling what we have been told to keep silent!!!

With Love----Jesika Thoman-- Dallas,Tx White Rock Cong.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
15:34:33
Comments

To Charice,

I'm proud of you girl! Stand up and be heard. Don't ever let anyone silence you again. I've just posted my story of being an abused wife on the other board, Battered Lambs. I will never again be silenced! Thank you Bill for all your hard work, and your efforts to help all of us victims of abuse. I will help get the word out as much as I can. I have your Banner on my own personal web site, and have received many comments on it already on my message board. God bless you Bill!

Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
17:47:49
Comments

The pinheads at jwzone.org are also concerned about the awful bad people of this worldly world. Here's a sample of their drivel:

Witness Z0ne BBS > Interlink Frequencies > Briefing Room > Fortunately he was caught

Last Thread Next Thread Author Thread

06-07-2002 05:44 AM

Conn Officer jeffbouldin

From: Lavrgne, TN Gender: Posts: 103

Fortunately he was caught Ex-teacher arrested for trying to 'buy' children

MEMPHIS — Daniel Pond, a former music teacher at Poplar Grove School in Franklin, is being detained by federal authorities in Memphis on charges of crossing a state line to engage in sex with a minor younger than 12.

Pond was arrested by special agents of the FBI last Wednesday in Greenwood, Miss. He is accused of attempting to pay $200 to take custody of two children, ages 5 and 7, for several days. He also is charged with possession and interstate transportation of child pornography — specifically computer images depicting minors engaged in ''sexually explicit conduct.''

More:http://www.tennessean.com/williamso...ent_ID=18353160

Notify Security officer of this post Post #1

06-07-2002 06:23 AM

Commandant LordZordec

From: Greeneville, TN Gender: Posts: 333

OH MY GOD!!!

The world is coming down to one big Sodom and Gomorrah!!!

"It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." Jeremiah 10:23

Notify Security officer of this post Post #2

06-07-2002 02:53 PM

Escherian Starfield Marshal Jimspace3000

From: Terra, Sol, Orion Arm Gender: Posts: 1694

Yesterday on Chuck Norris Texas Ranger kung-fu cops were beating the snot out of girl kidnappers/pedophiles. I have to admit it was great!

Live long and prosper, Jim

--- ___/===\___ <___________>

Notify Security officer of this post Post #3

06-07-2002 06:33 PM

NYMPHsis: PollMeister General nysister

From: Brooklyn, New York

Posts: 983

Those poor children, It's a shame some of the things people go through in this system. Just because he didn't get to them doesn't mean someone else won't or already has. It's simply awful the way some try and take advantage of kids.

----nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e' ---- Says the "funnel" known as NYMPHsis

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06-07-2002 10:21 PM

Commandant LordZordec

From: Greeneville, TN Gender: Posts: 333

Can you imagine the emotional issues those kids will have to put up with later in life?

"It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." Jeremiah 10:23

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Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
18:11:13
Comments

Here's some more data from those pinheads at jwzone.org

Witness Z0ne BBS > Humanity > Counselor Troi's Couch > Child molestation

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04-09-2002 12:52 AM

Ensign ioneblair

From: Philadelphia, PA Gender: Posts: 46

Child molestation Note: I am not used to this board yet so if this is in the wrong forum, please move it and let me know. Thanks.

In view of the recent publicity given to child molestation, this can be a time to review with ourselves and our children things to help lessen the possibility of our children becoming victims to this. Unfortunately and realistically no parent can give their children complete and guaranteed protection but we can lessen the possibility.

I know we have all talked with our children about not letting others touch their private areas, and I started when my children were very young but old enough to understand and I did it in a non dramatic, ordinary way. I also let them know to come to me with anything that happens that is uncomfortable to them. Children can sense inappropriateness and I assured them I would always believe them. I tend to be very natural in speaking with my children any way (just the way I am) so I thought that would help them in coming to me with any uncomfortable feelings and issues. (in fact my son would come to me and plainly speak about issues involving his genitals as he was growing up, even before he would go to his father)

I used a book to help at times, it was a book on self appreciation and acknowledgement entitled, "Just because I am" (I forgot the title and had to ask a kid ), all of my kids can remember me reading it to them and discussing it with them countless times.

Or a Bible story can be an avenue into such a discussion. Perhaps Dinah.

And I did the "stand at the men's bathroom" thing in theaters when my son had to use the facilities, checking on him verbally. This was easier for my kids because they always saw their mom as "different" (read odd and embarrassing [to them] and our norm too) anyway.

We practiced words and phrases to use if someone took them against their will.

I was not trying to scare my children but I am cautious and practical, very practical, and realistic. It was just a normal part of our lives to discuss this at times.

They knew they always had a right to say no to an adult when it did not feel right. We had no alternative names for their body parts, just the proper names. Tattling was not a bad thing but the proper thing. We did the "what if" scenarios.

And to be truthful, I was prepared to handle the worst if it happened. Still am, with Jah's help. I might get queasy at the sight of blood but my kids knew that I would rise to the occasion of a severe problem or crisis and not fall apart.

I look forward to hearing advice, counsel, and experiences (only if you want to share) on this matter. In view of the nature of this discussion, please use discretion in your posts.

Hopefully, this will be strengthening and encouraging.

agape, gwen

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04-09-2002 02:20 AM

Co-Majestrix Little Q

From: The Q Continuum Gender: Posts: 2008

Sounds a lot like how my parents raised us. I know some people frown on that kind of thing, but I think it's foolish to deprive your children of information that is a protection to them.

I also don't like those cute little stories parents tell their kids to explain conception. My mom tried that with my brother and he ended up going to school the next day and informing some other kid that if you wanted to have a baby you had to begin with planting beans. *shakes head* No no...I'm sure I can find some better way to explain things than that!

~Little Q~

"Some WHAT?!?!"

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04-10-2002 09:09 PM

Ensign The Muse In Me

From: San Diego and New Orleans Gender: Posts: 43

Hi Sisters:

I think you are taking the best and wisest course. The balance between frightening your children and forearming them is a very fine delicate line.

But I want to say that pedophiles are very clever and spend large substantial time in gaining trust. And unfortunately the vast majority of molesters are someone you know and trust. But your being prepared for the worst is preparation , I don't see that being prepared would make it an actuality. Also in the case of Dinah as sad as it was, isn't usually the way it will happen in modern society.

Keeping your children mindful that you can and will advocate for them is the best comfort they will ever know even if they think you are strange or weird. One of the best lines of attacks from pedophiles and from the larger society is that somehow the child, particularly if it is female somehow brought it on themselves. And yes I hear this even from the friends. And they always bring up Dinah.

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04-10-2002 10:53 PM

Security Chief Granmoogie

From: Las Vegas, Nevada Gender: Posts: 3488

I hear that too sometimes.

I'd like to remind people who take that attitude that rape, pedophilia, molestation, etc., are crimes. Being unwise, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time, is not.

Warning! I have an attitude and I know how to use it.

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04-16-2002 08:15 PM

Ensign The Muse In Me

From: San Diego and New Orleans Gender: Posts: 43

True dat! Moogie

I really wish people would really honestly see that harm is done with statements like that. Intentional or not.

Ironically yesterday I had to intercept my prepuberty granddaughter from running into the kitchen with nothing but a towel on to "tell "my daughter something when my daughter 42 year old boyfriend was in there with her. I took her in the room and explain to her that it was inappropriate and that the boyfriend is not family and even if he was blood related that modesty still has to prevail. That too many times it is the "boyfriend" or others who we thought we could trust that we hear later on molested, raped or killed a young girl. Since this child is approaching twelve that this has to cease.

Later I had to tell my daughter what had happened. They didn't see my granddaughter doing this as I intercepted so fast they didn't have time to turn around. And this "boyfriend" is shady at best.

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Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
18:24:44
Comments

The pinheads at jwzone.org discussing homosexuality Here's an interest excerpt: Red Shirt Justme

From: Somewhere, East Coast, USA

Posts: 3

For some witness it varies. I know some who were caught or confess, and repented. By if they weren't careful, they repeated the same trend that got them into trouble the first time. When you are reproved, you feel withdrawn, because now an unbaptized publishers has more privileges than you do. But some say it's a way of focusing on communicating with Jehovah. As for me, once in a while, I experience a spiritual lapse, and I find myself hunting down "prey" instead of teaching them the Bible. Then I feel guilty because though I may pray for help, I know I still want to continue doing what is bad. It is a sad, emotional trauma that never ends. Those who practice masturbation are the number one risk of developing a gay lifestyle or attitude. When you find someone else who is looking for the things you are, and the condition are so that you think you won't get caught, chances are your love for pleasure outweighs the fear of Jehovah wiping you off the face of the earth. It's like smoking, drinking, or procrastinating, it's hard to stop.

Read it in context at: http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=2774&pagenumber=1

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
18:46:00
Comments

OK, now this particular pinhead takes the cake: Ambassador MrLinux

From: Detroit, MI USA

Posts: 1063

I, for one, am glad that the Faithful and Discreet Slave does not claim either infallibility or divine inspiration. Although having a fixed doctrine would lend a sense of security, that sense of security would be false if that fixed doctrine was anything less than ab initio* perfect and complete.

I'd rather adjust my thinking from time to time than forfeit my eternal life in order to cling to erroneous doctrine.

We in the United States, Canada, England and even France have faced relatively little oppression. While I certainly am not eager for more, I am reconciled that such oppression is necessary for Jehovah's prophecies to be fulfilled. So go ahead, Dateline, do your part in fulfilling the prophecies. Bring oppression and "mischief by decree" upon us ... and destruction upon yourself. Your unrepentant falsehoods and evasions will not go un-noticed by Jehovah ... nor will they go unrewarded. That is also part of the prophecies.

* "from the beginning"

http://organic-earth.com ftp://organic-earth.com smtp - bill@organic-earth.com

To see my garden, take the photo gallery link off my web site. See his comments in context: http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4766

And here's a bonus. I've been researching these a-holes Here's Mr Linux's real name and address and phone number: Bill Canaday 15275 S Dixie Hwy Monroe MI 48161 Phone 734-457-0858

Please call or write this pinhead and ask him personally how he feels about pedophiles.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
18:58:42
Comments

Some more interesting threads from the pinheads data base at jwzone.org

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4438

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4555&pagenumber=1

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4754

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4749

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4749

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4584

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4562

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
18:59:40
Comments

Some more interesting threads from the pinheads data base at jwzone.org

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4438

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4555&pagenumber=1

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4754

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4749

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4749

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4584

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=9c05bcd3034c25479b7f2caaaa806818&threadid=4562

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
20:35:30
Comments

I ,too, have been disfellowshipped for telling the truth. It is nice to see someone doing something to try to help the abused ones. My heart goes out to those who thought they had the truth only to find that JEHOVAH'S words "there is no one doing good", applies even to the Governing Body. Floyd Thomas fhill@adelphia.net

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
21:59:20
Comments

The precise point is that WTS "claims" it is a clean organization(by deception)and by disfellowshipping the wrong people and the dirty dogs get to stay in "good standing." This is deceptive and people think they are either safe or going crazy in the KH. Does it take perfection to do what is right? Does Jehovah test us with evil???? Where does it say that? Satan won this test with all the ones who support a pedophile that gets "caught and acts repentant" and disfellowships the person who is traumatized for being traumatized. Jehovah does not test with evil. This is wickedness. And it is wicked to tell people to "wait on Jehovah" when you could do something.

You are slandering God if you think that He will go along with all this BS...WTS has twisted the scriptures, twisted your thinking into sticking up for pedophiles that get caught and repent. WHERE ARE THE LETTERS OF REPENTANCE FROM THESE SICKOS. THEIR DOLLARS SHOULD BE POURING IN TO SILENTLAMBS TO PAY THE COST OF THIS SITE.>>> AND TO HELP THE PERSONS WHOSE LIVES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED BY THESE CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST CHILDREN. A REPENTANT PERP SHOULD NOT EXPECT OR DEMAND FORGIVENESS,or a position of "good standing". This is the arrogance of an unrepentant "animal."

What God does a JW serve that would expect anything less? As long as the society disfellowships for speaking out against a pedophile and lets the pedophile "do the pedophile lie syndrome" they are misleading everyone, causing division and leading those who listen to destruction.

Moral obligation to your neighbor and obligation to God cannot be twisted to mean to save the "organization" and expect anyone to believe that it is backed by Jehovah's spirit. That is blasphemy and bringing reproach upon Jehovah's name. They have twisted Jehovah into a Liberal Thinker who is blinded from the truth of this situation. A God everyone is waiting for to do something and when he does do it Jaws say it is coming from Satan. Very interesting....What is it exactly that you thought Jehovah was going to do when he saw you were doing nothing???? Keep it secret and hidden at the cost of more ruined lives under the pretext of saving a creep and a coward "brother"??? That is the god you serve and worship. Y My God Jehovah got tired of waiting for the WTS and listening to them say "wait on Jehovah" while they "waited on the pedophile and served the children for lunch." Obviously you don't know Jehovah like I do, or Bill or the many many voices on this site.

To stay in good standing I would think a lover of God would not want "fellowship" with anyone who Waits on the pedophile hand and foot and says they are waiting on Jehovah. This is total disrespect, total subjection to what is wicked, and total misrepresentation of my God whose name is Jehovah.

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
23:21:41
Comments

I have been disfellowshipped for 22 years and my heart goes out to those have been shunned by Witnesses and counseled by elders who know nothing of psychology or the human mind. These people are not trained professionals and the Bible can't cure everything.

I am one of the lucky ones. I found out that there is life outside of a Kingdom Hall. That you can have good, nurturing relationships and friendships with people who are not Witnesses. And that you can still live your life in God, follow the commandments and be a good, decent person without being a Witness. After all the hurt and torment that they put me through, after being shunned by my mother, sister, and brother, who were my essence - I went on to live a prosperous good life with a wonderful CATHOLIC husband and 3 beautiful children.

My message is don't despair. Keep walking in the lord and all good things will come. There is a life after being a Witness.

JC in NY

Remote User:
Date:
07 Jun 2002
Time:
23:47:27
Comments

The one who calls on Jehovah will be saved.

Cannot call on the WTS to save you. There is nobody home that cares.

The lambs on this site have called on Jehovah to reveal and expose, to heal, to bring justice. Jehovah is a mighty God exacting justice for His People. Jesus loves the lowly ones not the Low Life.

The WTS has been called a "cult" enough times that they should have educated themselves away from any resemblance of cult like activity. JW's are as "cultish" as the moonies if you read "Cult & Mind Control" by a man who was a moonie. He makes no mention of Jaws. Read and compare. I did and it was unbelievably the same routine. You will hardly see a difference.

The WTS has been aware of the pedophile problem all along and they should have educated themselves about it. They were obviously aware that the few articles were of no benefit to the tune of 23,740 files. They knew. Their choice to do nothing is not God's will.

The WTS knowingly and willingly put the Malawi brothers in "critical times hard to deal with" while the governing body played the part of having no natural affection, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to it. The WTS knowingly slaughter their own lambs and gave the slain lambs top coverage in the yearbook. They create the tragic "news" and then report the tragic news. And they have the nerve, absolutely shamelessness to say Bill is wrong to bring this "issue" to the media. It is the height of wickedness that they do this. How many people know the truth behind the Malawi tragedy???? I'll never tell. Secrets. This should come under investigation. Scared to say this. No one should have this much power to control.

The WTS knowingly deceived Jaws about the U.N and began writing articles that showed all the good of the UN is doing and paid tribute to Jehovah's Kingdom in the last paragraph. I remember reading this articles and wondering 'what the heck is going on" and thought I must have a bad attitude that is being corrected.

Jehovah controls no one - not even the WTS. They are doing it of their own free will.

WTS had a choice to call on Jehovah just like the rest of us. Jehovah did not tell them to cover up, lie, have secrets, or to be excused as imperfect to do what they damn well please.

Spiritually dead men cannot give you everlasting life just because they say they are looking out for your spiritual welfare. Sounds tricky, smells of trickery, looks tricky, must be a trick. Who does tricks, turns tricks??? Animals and whores.

Who is being entertained by all this Jehovah or Satan. It is the responsibility of the WTS to do what is right. They won't and that is their choice not Jehovah's will.

It is very very difficult to separate WTS from Jehovah. They planned it that way. It is the epitome of control. There would be no discussion if they had acted with nobleness that reflected Jehovah's spirit and yet it is still difficult to separate the two. Know what I mean??? The mind has difficulty separating the two. Why is that? Why would anyone want to do this to our minds? Does God want us to feel like we are ripped into two? Even the constitution with it's amendments protects us against the tyranny of government-right to bear arms, free to speak against the government without fear of the government stopping us. To bring an injustice to the courts of law does not make a citizen of that country a traitor. The amendments to the constitution protect its citizens against an tyrannical government. Who protects Jehovah's witnesses against WTS - He Himself by revealing secrets that create bondage. Who is the traitor/apostate/unworthy of fellowship with God?? The wrongdoer or the one who has been wronged, silenced/oppressed? It is a no-brainer.

Can anyone tell me when the Dateline will be repeated? Missed it- didn't have cable now I do.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
00:31:25
Comments

Select this button for a $5000 dollar donation.

??????

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
00:38:26
Comments

You are so long, and so late. The Witnesses have declared that their Governing Body is spirit guided. We assume this spirit is JEHOVAH'S. We take what you say VERY seriously in that JEHOVAH'S is PERFECT. Ummm... if his organization is Spirit-Guided, EVERYTHING they do is perfect, right? Why do people keep claiming that his organization is nothing but imperfect men? If they were spirit guided, why wouldn't they be PERFECT? Why would the light have to keep getting brighter and brighter? The light of the truth is PERFECT, right? The Truth is the Truth is the truth

Remote User: Date: 06 Jun 2002 Time: 14:41:46 Comments I do not know what is sicker rapists or you turning your back on Jehovah God, and to make things even worst you are asking for donations!!!! You should know better that being a true Witness does not mean being perfect.It sadness me that you are doing this publicly to damage this beautiful organization and God's name

I hope you reconsider before is to late!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
01:24:36
Comments

I apparently am one of numerous people who have been used by the JW organization. I have come to this site to seek support from other victims and I have unfortunately found a lot of current JW's supporting the molesters. It really blows my mind to think any reasonable person could come here and read the thousands of testimonies and still support the offender. It just reinforces my feeling that JW's attract weak minded people to manipulate, control and support the organization. It is not only a pity that adults get sucked into this but innocent children are forced to belong. Hopefully they will grow to be strong, open-minded adults that see beyond the smoke screen as I have been fortunate enough to do. Although this site was intended for victims, JW's still find that they need to come here. If you don't believe it why come here to support the liars? I think we are to loud to be ignored and your curiosity has been peaked. Could Jehovah's ever loving organization be flawed?

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
01:38:36
Comments

The projected show times for the Dateline program on MSNBC "weekend magazine" is as follows,

Stone Phillips presents highlights from the week's reports, investigative features and news maker profiles.

SATURDAY, JUNE 8 - 5:00 AM ET Long Island Doc

MONDAY, JUNE 10 - 3:00 AM ET Long Island Doc

The program is not mentioned but included with the "long island doc" show according to my source.

silentlambs

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
02:03:45
Comments

To the person who posted the below comment: Come on, now. Please use your brains. Are you thinking Bill Bowen is sitting back raking in money to stuff in his pockets for his own personal use? Obviously you have not read this entire site. Any money donated is used to help victims and/or to further this cause (possibly help pay for expenses to have witnesses at the DF hearings, etc.). So, please, Mr./Ms. Ding Dong, you are not not thinking clearly. Maybe you are just very young. There is nothing wrong about asking for donations. (Does not the WTS and individual congs ask for donations?) Surf the web awhile. Look up all non-profit orgs on the web that were created for the purpose of helping people. They ALL have "donate" buttons on their sites. It's really no big deal, and no reason at all to put some shady/selfish meaning to it. ----- Date: 06 Jun 2002 Time: 10:55:25: I just feel that if you were really sincere in what you were doing you would not be asking for money, especially the Visa Mastercard button that does not disappear. I don't expect anyone to read this because obviously you wont post it

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
02:17:26
Comments

I received this info via email today: Quote: The Watchtower's Media site and email notification have been notifying their readers that they are taking an active part in 'doing everything they can' in the child abuse issue. Obviously the Dateline NBC episode that aired a few days ago had a big effect, and they are anticipating much more. Here is part of their email notification:

"People didn't have the body of knowledge 18 or 20 years ago to say that this is something that will harm your child emotionally, if you don't address it. Parents didn't know the seriousness ... and the long-term effects." --Dr. Gail Bethea-Jackson, LCSW-C, B.C.D., specializing in victimization, children and adolescent issues, and post-traumatic stress disorder. End Quote.

My feeling in response to that, is this: Even if "general worldly knowledge" was lacking 18-20 years ago re: the long term effects of child sex abuse, did not BIBLE-EDUCATED persons ALREADY KNOW there "must" be something bad/unnatural/harmful about it since Jah had written in the Bible his commands against it at Leviticus 18:6, 9, 10, 11, 17, 22, 24-26?

And, even if adults (worldly OR JW) were not aware 18-20 years ago of the effects, this is still no excuse. It sounds like a lame argument to me. If that Doc is a spokesperson for the WTS, why doesn't she say, "WE ARE SORRY THIS HAPPENED, but due to ignorance on the part of many, people were unaware of the effects..." etc. etc. In other words, try APOLOGIZING first.

As a sex abuse survivor (not by Jaws), I am not impressed with that lady-doc's comment. It reminds me of the saying, "Ignorance of the law is No Excuse."

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
02:30:20
Comments

Maybe everyone already "knows" this, but since I have not seen it specifically written, I am saying it here and now:

Here is the order of what you should do when you discover your child as been abused and/or molested:

NUMBER ONE PRIORITY: TAKE THE CHILD TO A DOCTOR IMMEDIATELY, either your family doc or go immediately to the emergency room so they can do a physical examination. (This should go without saying). It doesn't matter if the abuse occurred months prior. They still may be able to see scar tissue, old bruising, etc. Document the abuse with the DOCTORS FIRST.

Step #2: THEN go to the police. (While at the ER, the docs may call the police themselves, or you can request that they do, and it can all be handled in a safe environment like a hospital or doc's office).

Step #3: THEN go or call the Rape Crisis Center in your town or similar counseling agency so that a professional could help the child. If you do Step #1, the medical people will provide contacts for counseling. Rape Crisis Centers are not for grown-ups only, and not for "rape" only. (Side note: Even if you are fully grown and the abuse happened years ago, you can still get counseling at a Rape Crisis Center and/or they will help you get free counseling elsewhere. Been there, done that, so I know.)

Step #4: THEN go to the elders, AFTER all of the above have been done, documented, help for the child sought, etc.

Just my 2 cents because I keep reading everyone says go to the police FIRST, but I say go to the DOCTOR/HOSPITAL FIRST.

Hope this helps. I CARE!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
02:37:10
Comments

"" To the person who posted the below comment: Come on, now. Please use your brains. Are you thinking Bill Bowen is sitting back raking in money to stuff in his pockets for his own personal use?""

That's the whole point, J.W.'s cant use their brains like we do, cause they are washed!!!! Otherwise they would realize that all the real- estate that the WTS owns in New York is paid by their donations!!!! But of course when asked, the WTS will give them a nice fitting answer, same story as the library-bullshit-excuse regarding their membership with the U.N. for 10 years!!! It must be terrible to be brainwashed AND stupid as well!!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
02:38:18
Comments

The latest WT came in the mail 2 days ago (only 1 more before their subscription service ends)... and I felt so sad. It was about Hellfire on the front of it. I thought to myself, "How wonderful it would have been if the Society had created a SPECIAL ISSUE with a Huge APOLOGY ON THE FRONT COVER, and loving, apologetic articles inside on this subject." Whether they "knew" or "didn't know," is not the point. These sex crimes DID occur, and an international apology (via the WT) would have melted my heart, and I would have "wolfed down" the magazine cover to cover.

Sign Me Sad

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
02:43:42
Comments

I have read where JW's say that this issue of child rape is to test their faith. How barbaric is that?

I know that people have begun to be disfellowshipped for "causing division." Hold your head up high if the elderoids victimize you. They are only doing what they are programmed to do. They can not take away your spirit or your commune with God. Pray outside of the KH and see what happens. You are not alone. Many people here and all over the world support you. God will never leave you. There is life outside of the windowless prison.

As for donating and the sticker shock; Pay Pals is an electronic banking company that you can use your credit card or bank online. You can also donate a lot less than the max. Believe it or not the outside world does all the charity work to help the people who need help. I'm quite sure that the WT whom is so loving and caring with all the money that it has. I know they had an estimated 322 million to a half a billion dollars in assets in the late 1970's. I wonder what they have horded two decades later. They have people working for slave wages and pay no taxes quite a thing they got going on there huh?

And as for the question of light. If you have a lamp and it is on. You then turn on a second lamp there is brighter light. You may even turn on a third lamp. But if you turn off the first light then it is not brighter. You have just traded light. The light of Christ is everlasting. What was true 2000 years ago is just as true today. The light of God was as true for Moses as it is today. It is not new, old, or brighter. The founder of the movement currently called the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society warned against religion that constantly changes its dogma. That is why no one is to look at past Watchtower material. It was all a lie. If it all was a lie before despite being so called inspired could the Society be lying now? Is it a lie if you believe it? Surely someone somewhere in the organization knows the way right? For the same reason the Governing body fears anyone who reads the Bible without so called bible aids. If you get out from under their constant pressure and mind control you experience a freedom to express yourself the way God intended. You can have loyalty to God instead of loyalty to religion.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:05:41
Comments

College Student wrote: "Someone told me that they are not mailing Watchtowers no more, maybe the reason is that if the outsiders don't know what is going on inside, all the outsiders can do is rely on old information which is out of date."

My comment: You know how they say we should always pay attention to our first gut reaction/instinct? Well, what College Student wrote above was exactly the very first thought that came to my mind when a few months ago the mags began arriving with red print across the wrapper saying there would be no more subscription service via mail once my current subscription ended.

My first thought was they/WTS wants to keep the "outsiders" from getting any more info so they cannot post the info on the web. I thought, "Maybe WTS feels the 'apostates' won't bother going into a KH to get a copy of the mag."

Then my second ('Oh My Goodness!") thought was, "Jah is closing in and tightening the reins... If you are not 'inside the ark' then bad news for me, because Armageddon must be VERY CLOSE for the subscription service to be coming to an end..."

Two extremes in my thinking, I know...

So I asked about the subs ending to some XJWs who still have family going to mtgs. and they said the Jaws were told at mtgs. that it had something to do with saving money and/or the WTS could not afford to send mags via mail anymore. Somehow I didn't quite buy that as a true reason.

What IS the "official reason" straight from HQ, if anybody knows?

Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:16:13
Comments

Date: 06 Jun 2002 Time: 11:58:39 wrote: "I do not know of any JW who is a police officer."

I was a VERY faithful JW throughout the 1980's, and there was a brother in the cong that shared our hall, and he was a police officer. The word was he knew how the WTS felt about Jaws carrying guns, but he was okay with being a policeman. Also, I "think" (if I remember correctly), the word was the elders had basically given up trying to convince him otherwise. I do remember thinking, though, to myself, "He can't be a very 'strong' brother and be a police officer." (typical JW thinking on my part at the time).

Fortunately, I was provided a more "balanced viewpoint" by an older sister who had been raised in the truth. She used to say, "Jah needs people in ALL occupations so they can witness to the other policemen.." etc. etc.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:20:16
Comments

Someone wrote how they feel "safe" coming to this site. I feel the same way and find myself coming here every few days.

I appreciate all of the comments, too. Aside from the boneheads, as someone else wrote, most of the comments are soooooo human, loving, concerned, encouraging, etc. It feels good to read, and I hope all victim/survivors will keep telling their stories.

Thanks for giving birth to this site. I'm sure it will just keep growing and growing.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:25:09
Comments

To the idiot who posted the jwgay link, hoping to mislead visitors to this site that Bill Bowen is now "gay" also...

Your post was a dead-giveaway as being completely phoney when you signed it: "Bill Bowen silentlambs.com"

The correct URL for this site is: silentlambs.ORG, you dummy!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:29:53
Comments

To all victims/survivors of battering/abuse:

Keep on talking, keep on speaking up! We love you, we feel for you, we are on your side!

Let your Pain be your Pulpit. Let your Mess be your Mission. Let your "Test" be your Testimony.

Much love and compassion for all of you. NightOwl

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:30:51
Comments

Linda Thoman, you write excellent posts.

Viewer

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
04:54:08
Comments

Two posters wrote: #1: So people, stop complaining and don't let your children be around anyone but the parents." #2: *****Unfortunately, in the majority of cases it is the parents, or close relatives, which are the abusers. Not a good answer.---

I have to agree with #2. It was our "bachelor" (Catholic) uncle, who everybody loved (he always came with presents and gifts in abundance). We used to ask our Mom as little kids, "If dad dies, will you marry JT?" Yet during those years, all 8 kids were sent off to the uncle's home regularly, two at a time, for little vacations and sleep-overs. Child #1 and 2 always went to uncle's house together; then Child #3 and 4 always went together; then Child #5 and 6 always went together; and then Child #7 and 8 always went together. So at any one time, only 2 at a time thought "they were the only ones." JT played "mind games" by stating things like, "You cannot come into the room and play cards with us unless you are willing to take off your clothes first." (This from my sister's account, stating, as a 4,5 & 6 year old, the last thing she wanted was to be "left out" of the "fun card game." So she would bang on the bedroom door begging to be let in where my uncle and brother already were, and would willingly take off her clothes so as not to be "left out.")

This is perversion at its CRUELEST, not only screwing with little minds but also little bodies.

BTW, this pervert is an old old man now, late 70's. He lives in Athens, GA, and his name is Joseph Thomas Meyer a/k/a "Jay" or "J.T." I reported him to the Sex Crimes Unit at the Athens Police back in '92, as he most likely is still up to his old tricks with other young ones. Beware if you live in that area.

And re: the two original posts: The BEST thing to do is EDUCATE your kids, and as one mother already wrote, make SURE the kids KNOW and FEEL you WILL stick up for them if they tell. This cannot be emphasized strongly enough. NEVER "HUSH" or DOUBT A CHILD!

Still-Fuming-When-I-Think-About-It!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
05:18:38
Comments

Someone wrote: "There is life outside of the windowless prison."

:) Chuckle. That "windowless prison" comment made me laugh. It's been over a decade since I was an active JW, and I can't remember the explanations of why KH's did not have windows...? To keep out the traffic noises? To help prevent vandalism? Does anyone remember what the explanation was?

BTW, there is (or was) a beautiful KH WITH WINDOWS in the San Jose area of Jax., FL, which I visited many years ago. I remember thinking how utterly nice and pleasant it was to sit inside that Hall and see sunshine, grass and trees outside. And the windows had lovely white sheer curtains. A very nice memory now that I think of it. Thanks for reminding me of it with your "windowless prison" comment. ;)

PS: Sunlight is so much more healthy than fluorescent lighting!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
06:18:26
Comments

More thoughts on "windowless" K.H.'s:

Sunshine/windows takes the hard edge off of fluorescent lights which are unhealthy.

Windows make a room feel more "homey."

Anything beats the dark & gloomy atmosphere due to "stained glass windows" like I grew up seeing in the catholic church.

Windows/scenery outside is distracting to concentration?

Barely remembering other reasons, real or imagined by myself, for their not being windows: That when Armageddon strikes and we were all going to enter into our "interior rooms" (KH's), it would be "safer" if there were no windows; and/or no windows would prevent us from seeing the slaughter going on outside by the Angel of Death.

Hmmm... Have I been up too long? ;) NightOwl

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
07:32:35
Comments

u sorry apostate! look how money hungry u are with your wanting donations! who would give u a couple thousand for ur greedy cause? I know ur not naive so u know what judgement is coming for u! if u were ever a witness then u have wasted ur time with the way u have now turned out!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
08:12:18
Comments

Dear Silent Lambs:

I am submitting this info to help parents "spot" possible sex abuse in their children, teens, etc. before years go by. When my Mom finally read this book, she said she remembered one of my brothers refusing to swim in a bathing suit, but rather he insisted on being fully clothed, which she thought was odd at the time. And my other brother was lighting fires from his adolescence, rage issues, stealing, etc. My oldest brother still sucked his thumb in high school. And me? Well, I entered my pubescence with rage and suicide attempts. How nice!

Parents, it's not just hormones making your kids act crazy! WAKE UP!!!!

Warning: This could be painful reading for abuse survivors (it's been 10 years since I last read this, and I can't believe the shock I am feeling once again at how TRUE this is.)

------

From the book: "Secret Survivors: Uncovering Incest and Its Aftereffects in Women" by E. Sue Blume (clinical social worker). Copyright 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989 (my copy dated 1990).

--Incest Survivors Aftereffects Checklist--

Do you find many characteristics of yourself on this list? If so, you could be a survivor of incest.* (*The term "incest" as used in this book is not confined to molestation/rape by a blood relative only, but by any friend or "trusted" individual.)

1. Fear of being alone in the dark, of sleeping alone; nightmares, night terrors (especially of pursuit, threat, entrapment).

2. Swallowing and gagging sensitivity; repugnance to water on one's face when bathing or swimming (suffocation feelings).

3. Alienation from the body--not at home in own body; failure to heed body signals or take care of one's body; poor body image, manipulating body size to avoid sexual attention.

4. Gastrointestinal problems; gynecological disorders (including spontaneous vaginal infections); headaches; arthritis or joint pain.

5. Wearing a lot of clothing, even in summer; baggy clothes; failure to remove clothing even when appropriate to do so (while swimming, bathing, sleeping); extreme requirement for privacy when using bathroom.

6. Eating disorders, drug or alcohol abuse (or total abstinence); other addictions; compulsive behaviors.

7. Self-destructiveness; skin carving; self-abuse.

8. Phobias.

9. Need to be invisible, perfect, or perfectly bad.

10. Suicidal thoughts, attempts, obsession (including "passive suicide").

11. Depression (sometimes paralyzing); seemingly baseless crying.

12. Anger issues, inability to recognize, own, or express anger; fear of actual or imagined rage; constant anger; intense hostility toward entire gender or ethnic group of the perpetrator.

13. Splitting (depersonalization); going into shock, shutdown in crisis; a stressful situation always is a crisis; psychic numbing; physical pain or numbness associated with a particular memory, emotion (e.g., anger), or situation (e.g., sex).

14. Rigid control of one's thought process; humorlessness or extreme solemnity.

15. Childhood hiding, hanging on, cowering in corners (security-seeking behaviors); adult nervousness over being watched or surprised; feeling watched; startle response.

16. Trust issue, inability to trust (trust is not safe); total trust; trusting indiscriminately.

17. High risk taking ("daring the fates"); inability to take risks.

18. Boundary issues; control, power, territoriality issues; fear of losing control; obsessive/ compulsive behaviors (attempts to control things that don't matter, just to control something).

19. Guilt, shame; low self-esteem, feeling worthless; high appreciation of small favors by others.

20. Pattern of being a victim (victimizing oneself after being victimized by others), especially sexually; no sense of own power or right to set limits or say no; pattern of relationships with much older persons (onset in adolescence).

21. Feeling demand to "produce and be loved;" instinctively knowing and doing what the other person needs or wants; relationships mean big tradeoffs (love was taken, not given).

22. Abandonment issues.

23. Blocking out some period of early years (especially 1-12), or a specific person or place.

24. Feeling of carrying an awful secret; urge to tell, fear of its being revealed; certainty that no one will listen; being generally secretive; feeling "marked" (the "scarlet letter").

25. Feeling crazy; feeling different; feeling oneself to be unreal and everyone else to be real, or vice versa; creating fantasy worlds, relationships, or identities (especially for women: imagining or wishing self to be male, i.e., not a victim).

26. Denial: no awareness at all; repression of memories; pretending; minimizing ("it wasn't that bad"); having dreams or memories ("maybe it's my imagination"); strong, deep, "inappropriate" negative reactions to a person, place, or event; "sensory flashes" (a light, a place, a physical feeling) without a sense of their meaning; remembering the surroundings but not the event.

27. Sexual issues; sex feels "dirty;" aversion to being touched, especially in gynecological exam; strong aversion to (or need for) particular sex acts; feeling betrayed by one's body; trouble integrating sexuality and emotionality; confusion or overlapping of affection, sex, dominance, aggression, and violence; having to pursue power in sexual arena which is actually sexual acting out (self-abuse and manipulation, especially among women; abuse of others, especially among men); compulsively "seductive" or compulsively asexual; must be sexual aggressor or cannot be; impersonal, "promiscuous" sex with strangers concurrent with inability to have sex in intimate relationship (conflict between sex and caring); prostitute, stripper, "sex symbol," porn actress; sexual acting out to meet anger or revenge needs; "sexaholism'" avoidance; shutdown; crying after orgasm; all pursuit feels like violation; sexualizing of meaningful relationships; erotic response to abuse or anger; sexual fantasies of dominance or rape (Note: Homosexuality is not an aftereffect).

28. Pattern of ambivalent or intensely conflictive relationships (intimacy is a problem; also focus shifted from incest issues).

29. Avoidance of mirrors (connected with invisibility, shame/self-esteem issues, distrust of perceived body image).

30. Desire to change one's name (to disassociate from the perpetrator or to take control through self-labeling).

31. Limited tolerance for happiness; active withdrawal from happiness, reluctance to trust happiness ("ice-thin").

32. Aversion to making noise (including during sex, crying, laughing, or other body functions); verbal hyper vigilance (careful monitoring of one's words); quiet-voiced, especially when needing to be heard.

33. Stealing (adults); stealing and starting fires (children).

34. Multiple personality.

From page xxii, xxiii: "Incest is possibly the most crippling experience that a child can endure. It is a violation of body, boundaries, and trust. Unless identified and dealt with, the emotional and behavioral aftereffects can stay with the victim. The very defenses that initially protect the incest survivor later lock these problems into place, interfering with adult functioning and preventing healing or change. -- ...The incest survivor may appear to be -- and may actually be, in many ways -- successful, talented, appealing, even happy. Yet underneath, she may feel as if she were rotting. She may see herself as crazy or unreal. The confusing behaviors and feelings that she endures could make sense if she knew (and understood) her incest past. Instead she feels trapped, confused, irrational, sick and weak. This is Post-Incest Syndrome..."

From page xxiv: "The Incest Survivors Aftereffects Checklist ... We must view each aftereffect as a survival tactic rather than as a problem to be overcome... Most incest survivors... find that of the 34 categories of emotional/behavioral items, more that 25 apply to their lives."

---------

Well, I would like to type out the entire book for every one of those jerks/ignoramus-types who visit this site and don't have a "clue." Everyone who has ever been abused should read this book, and so should their mates and partners and families. Elders should be made to read this book, if they want to have a "clue" as to how to "assist" abuse survivors! Every MAN, JW or whatever religion, who EVER molested/raped anybody should be FORCED TO READ THIS BOOK. Judges should make it REQUIRED reading for the perverts they sentence. Elders should MAKE "suspected" or "confessed" abusers in the congregations READ THIS BOOK. If the alleged-abuser refuses to "confess," after reading this book he should definitely have a change of heart, or he is a TOTAL ANIMAL. Elders should lock the "alleged-abuser" in the "back room" at the KH until he has read this book.

Two other books that were helpful: "The Right to Innocence," by Beverly Engel, MFCC; and "Homecoming: Reclaiming and Championing Your Inner Child," by John Bradshaw (who also wrote other books: "Toxic Shame," "Healing the Shame that Binds You," etc.). For any males who have been abused, I heard back in those days of my researching/reading about this subject, that there was a book called "Abused Boys," by Mick Hunter (I believe). I wanted to get that book but never did, as I understand the aftereffects for men is a little different. Maybe if Christopher Scott knows of any books, he would be willing to share the titles. (And, BTW Chris, I am SO PROUD OF YOU for CHANGING YOUR NAME! I have wanted to do that for years and years.)

I still don't have the "guts" to sign my real name (sorry), but I am in awe of, and am so proud of those of you who do. Such brave souls you are!

Good Morning to All. PS: BTW, I could claim at least one (usually more) items in each of 28 paragraphs out of the 34 categories on the checklist. How's that for a sad sack of potatoes!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
08:49:36
Comments

The below individual was a JW when I knew him and his wife (same cong as them for 10 years, through 1990 when I was DF'd). He was a ministerial servant (maybe still is for all I know). I read of his arrest in early 1994 in the newspaper, and cried my guts out. I do not know "who" it is he sexually battered, whether it was someone in or outside of the congregation, or maybe one of his 2 daughters (?). He is still in the local phone book, same address.

This is being supplied so those in "denial" about Jaws and sex abuse will "wake up." This info from the Florida Dept. of Law Enforcement Website, i.e., public knowledge. ---- Sex Offender: <http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Sexual_Predators/index.asp>

Date of Photo: 03-07-2000

Byron Aubrey Gilliland Alias:Gilliland Byron, Gilliland Byron Aubrey Status: Supervision Department of Corrections Inmate #: 142406 Date of Birth: 05-24-1939 Race: White Sex: Male Height: 5' 11" Hair: Red Eyes: Blue Weight: 180 lbs. Last Reported Address: 1232 SUNLAND RD, DAYTONA BEACH, FL 32114-5909 County: VOLUSIA Date Address Entered: 10-06-1998 Qualifying Offense(s): LEWD,LASCIVIOUS CHILD U/16 SEX BAT/INJ NOT LIKELY Victim(s): Gender: unknown ; Minor? yes Gilliland is a Sex Offender under Florida law. Positive identification cannot be established unless a fingerprint comparison is made. If further information is needed, please contact the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit at (1-888-357-7332) between the hours of 8am and 7pm, Monday through Friday

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
10:13:51
Comments

Re:--Incest Survivors Aftereffects Checklist--

#27. Sexual Issues…. prostitute, stripper,

I have often wondered how nice girls from good two parent families could grow up to be dancers in Stripper Clubs and Prostitutes.

In the Plano TX area I know three young women all raised in the congregation between the ages of 27-22 that currently make their living in that manner. I also know of a number more in that age group who are extremely promiscuous.

Isn't it a shame to raise your daughters so carefully train them so well and have this result?

Why have these young women's lives been ruined?

What secret is buried here?

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
10:40:47
Comments

To JULIA!!!

I am Linda Thoman. Steve is my brother. The second oldest. Delane is his wife. They live in Mt. Pleasant TX, the last I heard.

Who are you? How do you know the Thoman's? If you read my story I posted about my childhood, you know the "Thoman Empire" history. It ain't pretty. Memories of our father beating my youngest brother, Keith, to the point where Keith literally passed out on the couch, while the rest of us were made to sit on chairs and watch. We, including my mother, sat there and watched him beat my little brother. Keith was only in elementary school at the time. We sat there watching, then when we counted over forty lashes, we all started to cry and beg my dad to stop. He told us to keep quiet or we would be next.

To VIEWER- Thank you.....I think. My post was my true history. I won't keep quiet ever again.

Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
12:55:33
Comments

"" sorry apostate! look how money hungry u are with your wanting donations""

What does that make the WTS????? Money horny????They want YOUR donations to built an empire in New York???? And by the look of what they already own over there, you 6.000.000 ignorant people must pay lots and lots of money!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
13:49:30
Comments

To Bill and the other Courageous men & women on this site.

God give us men! A time like this demands

Strong minds, great hearts, true faith, and ready hands;

Men whom the lust of office does not kill;

Men who the spoils of office cannot buy;

Men who possess opinions and a will;

Men who have honor---men who will not lie;

Men who can stand before a demagogue,

And damn his treacherous flatteries without winking!

Tall men, sun-crowned, who live above the fog,

In public duty and in private thinking:

For while the rabble, with their little deeds,

Mingle in selfish strife, lo! Freedom weeps,

Wrong rules the land, and waiting Justice sleeps.

Josiah Gilbert Holland 1819 - 1881

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
16:35:39
Comments

It's important to understand the mentality of the JW's so as to work around them. Here are some excerpts from their writings, which explains why they hid things. It is for the purpose of not hindering their "ministry". Who can argue with God's people?

As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interest of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies. --The Watchtower, June 1, 1960, page 352.

So, in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. --The Watchtower May 1, 1957, page 285-286.

At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work. --The Watchtower, May 1, 1957, page 285-286.

While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. --Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, page 1061.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
16:46:22
Comments

Excellent Post Award! Here it is again on top. I guess I am not done. Remember the "naughty one" who keeps on transforming himself as an angel of light? The one who would fool even the very elect if it were not for God bringing this to an end?

I see all kinds of personalities posting here. Victims first of all. Then second the ones who belong to the organization that have not had this bad experience who are adamantly defending their faith. And then third I see everyone else who lives outside the "protected Bubble" of the WT Society showing cause for the ignorance and blindness in the world. Well pull up your boot straps, this blindness exists in every faith and in every walk. God is cleaning house and "NO ONE" is going to remain hidden. What the perpetrator does in secret will come to light not just in the Catholic faith, or the Jehovah's Witness's but all walks will get this shake down.

For those of you who have not had to live this horror. And since you don't know. I will share this well known metaphor "It is better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". YOU have NOT walked a mile in their shoes and DO NOT have the right to judge those who say they are victims. How dare you.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
17:00:58
Comments

I am a former elder who had been removed from that privilege some years ago when my wife was having problems as a result of her emotional abuse at the hands of her father who was an elder at the time she was growing up. I am currently serving again as a Ministerial Servant in good standing. When I was an elder I sat in on my wife's judicial meetings (as is required) and served on many judicial committees, several of which dealt with abuse victims/survivor's. I say in all sincerity how deeply I feel for all such ones when I read their stories. It pains me greatly to see this evil in the Christian congregation. Let me state, again in all sincerity, that neither my wife nor any of the others I dealt with were told to ‘keep quiet.' Indeed, we were encouraged to report my father-in-law to his congregation elders for judicial review. As elders, we often discussed how abused ones needed help because we knew that they were scarred emotionally and spiritually and that these horrid memories will *always* resurface in terms of promiscuity, violence (to self or others), drug use or in the perpetuation of these behaviors on the next generation. And we knew and discussed this 10 years ago!

The body of elders I served with at that time made every effort to listen compassionately and non-“judgmentally” as people told their stories. We *never* assumed they were lying! Indeed, one of the points Jaws like to make with people is ‘does this have the ring of Truth?' And every one of the sufferers told stories that had the ring of Truth. Yes, if there was no other evidence or second witness or confession, as elders we could do nothing more except keep sealed records on file of what happened. In a number of cases the perpetrator committed the same crime again and because this was the second incident of the same type of sin, we could disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer. According to Watchtower Society guidelines it does *not* have to be two witnesses to the same event. At the very least, if the perpetrator continued to deny the second set of allegations, we could disfellowship them as an unrepentant liar.

If State laws require reporting, conscientious elders report to the authorities. Because most elders are not current on local law as well as for other reasons, elders are to report abuse to the Watchtower's Legal Department for review and advice. Please keep in mind that only 16 states require this. Other states require that we do *not* report, citing “ecclesiastical privilege.”

It also pains me to read how many long-time witnesses have engaged the services of attorneys when dealing with either their local congregations or with the Watchtower Society's headquarters. They have forgotten the scripture at 1 Corinthians 6:7 which says “Really, then, it means altogether a defeat for YOU that YOU are having lawsuits with one another. Why do YOU not rather let yourselves be wronged?” This is God's Word speaking to us. Yes, what happened to many at the hands of supposed Witnesses is an unspeakable crime – against God and humanity, but loyal Jaws endeavor to follow scripture in *all* things, even when it is painful to do so.

Keep in mind also that Jehovah does allow tests of loyalty at the hands of Satan in order to ‘sift us.' To the victims/survivors: Jehovah is not to blame and will certainly comfort all in need. But we must maintain our loyalty! To the rest of us: Don't be swept overboard by any sensationalizing of events. Let us not lose our faith because of news reports or by what we may read online from disgruntled former believers.

"Gadol"

Reply Comments

Gadol: I'm sure you consider yourself compassionate and reasonable, but I find myself shaking my head. You had reports of a child abuser in your midst, those reports had the 'ring of truth', then you sealed them up and did nothing more. You cite Society rules. Predictably, it happened again and aha! now you can do something. So, just how guilty do you feel about those 'second' cases? What could you have done to protect those other innocent children? How many children outside of the organization were victimized when you could have helped? Did your self-righteousness make it unnecessary to even consider that you may be misapplying the two-witness rule? Is it even possible that you could do something to protect other children even if you don't have multiple witnesses? Is your self-righteousness enough to ward off the pangs of guilt? You're the problem.

- Buster

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
17:10:12
Comments

Remote User: Date: 06 Jun 2002 Time: 10:55:25

Comments

i just feel that if you were really sincere in what you were doing you would not be asking for money, especially the Visa Mastercard button that does not disappear. I don't expect anyone to read this because obviously you wont post it

Yea, it got posted and I'm reposting here with a comment. There is no law that says we can't help our fellow man out. As a matter of fact individuals can give up to 10gs tax free gift. You don't have to be a 501 non-profit. As I see it there is no request for money. Just a button as an option. Some where on this page I saw Bowmen's own comment about donations and it seemed real reasonable to me. Now the JC's standing in the middle of the road with a bucket is a nuisance. A little button is not a collection plate in your face. Um, OK.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
17:13:02
Comments

For sexual offenders' registries, to look up someone you may suspect in your congregation of being an offender:

http://www.soc-um.org/register.html

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
17:21:34
Comments

Here's a post from April:

Hello, I'm currently a JW and what I think you are doing is absolutely wonderful. The society needs a good clean out.

My question is what are you doing to keep the JW Org clean?

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
17:29:11
Comments

Another post from April moved up as it has a really good idea.

I am truly impressed with the way your site is developing. There is excellent information here - very informative as well as inspiring. I would urge all to write their state legislators to inform them of the cover-ups - they are the men/woman who have the ultimate power to enact laws to enforce the mandatory reporting of such cases. Thanks. I'll definitely be returning to the site frequently to see updates. ZaZuWitts@webtv.net

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
17:35:11
Comments

Good question Todd from April 2001 post. We don't want to slander people just because we're angry at some filthy pedophiles, right. It seems best to report to the proper secular authorities what one knows. When you put your stories here it may boomerang if you can't prove it. Folks don't get yourselves in a jam.

hello, Bill,

i believe in and strongly support what you are doing since making yourself known on H2O back in December.

one question though. on your "pinpoint_a_pedophile" page, you state:

"The purpose of the Survey is to offer a place where you can post information concerning accused, alleged, or convicted pedophiles."

aren't you putting potentially innocent, although "accused" pedophiles at risk?

just curious. todd tajones@prodigy.net

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
18:15:50
Comments

I want to thank everyone for speaking out. I think this a wonderful way to heal and assist others in their healing. A friend referred me to this site. I will be passing it on. Thanks

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
18:49:08
Comments

Please go here...

http://dailymotivator.com/memberflash/rightnow.html

If anyone can make it a link I would appreciate it.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
20:48:48
Comments

Tho I know they exist, I have yet to hear anyone, besides Barbara Anderson on Dateline, mention FEMALE pedophiles.

I know they're there. It goes 'with the territory', so to speak (sorry).

Anyone?

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
20:54:43
Comments

I have been a Witness for almost 30 years. I have witnessed and experienced many horrors inside the organization. I truly believe Jehovah will take care of the problems because he has in the past. He is now taking care of the wrong policy of pedophilia. I have written a letter in protest and it appears below. I urge everyone to write letters in protest. In the past, Jehovah's people wrote letters in protest to totalitarian governments persecuting our brothers. Now is the time to write to the Organization who are persecuting our brothers in our midst.

June 8, 20002

Governing Body 25 Columbia Heights Brooklyn, NY 11201-2483

Dear Brothers:

I saw the Dateline program. An apology is in order. The TRUTH must be told. Follow the steps for repentance and Jehovah will bless us. Without a doubt, Jehovah is disciplining us.

Silent Lambs are not apostates. How can people who protect children from molestation be apostates? Silent Lambs are friends of the afflicted and oppressed molested ones.

Please do not try to cover up anymore. Make an honest confession and come clean. The world is watching. I cannot preach until this mess is cleared up. Nor can I give any more money to an organization that promotes pedophilia.

I am ashamed to be called a Jehovah's Witness. I am ashamed to take the good news to my neighbors. I share guilt by association. Although I have not committed the crimes, I feel a sense of community responsibility, as should all of you, in promoting the crimes.

Identify the brother who set this policy in motion. Who was the man that first stood up and established this policy? This policy was not created in a vacuum, nor did it appear out of thin air. A man was responsible for this policy. Who was that man? Jehovah will reveal the guilty party just as he revealed Achan.

Do not delay! Take immediate steps to right the wrongs. If you fail to act, or make excuses, or persecute Silent Lambs, we will share the same fate as the Catholic Church.

I am disillusioned and bewildered. I will wait for directions from the "slave." Please be quick!

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
21:23:16
Comments

To "U":

We are waiting for restitution from the "repentant" pedophiles now that they are "caught" to donate money to a "cause" they caused - I wouldn't exactly call a restitution a donation would you? This would be a token of an act of repentance befitting a Christian and one who calls himself one of Jehovah's witnesses - don't you think???

We are waiting and so is Jehovah but we ain't holding our breath!

The word you is not spelled "u" - are you lazy and ignorant too?

We have not heard one word out of you befitting of a witness to Jehovah or Christ. Why is that?? What are you so angry about? You are obviously not a Christian with Christ like love. We have heard nothing but pure ridicule with no "facts" - just name calling and SLANDER. What are you so angry about??? Who hurt you? You defend the WTS in a very ignorant, undignified, unintellectual and unspiritual manner which leads me to believe that you are just a heckler and probably go to many different sites just to do your thing. What's with you?

You have impressed no one here as a lover of God.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
22:01:05
Comments

Thank you for the information on Dateline Weekend Edition - 3:00 A.M - ET. SET THE ALARM...

The "meditation" site was beautiful thank you for that. Has anyone gone to patiencepress.com ???? some very powerful material there to help you identify what is going on with yourselves and to bring some clarity and understanding to help you cope and give guidance to your families or close ones that want to help. Love to you all.

I can't help but wonder SOME MORE why WTS did not do some RESEARCH and get it out to us. There is tons of information out there on PTS, Child abuse etc. the articles they wrote skim the surface and were shallow. Pray and wait on Jehovah. No mention of the many resources so readily available FREE.

Yes wouldn't that have been something! A Watchtower Magazine cover to cover addressing this atrocity and gain some trust back. Even the Catholic Church has been openly discussing their coverup and assisting in removing the priests - even if it is hind sight and good PR it is better than "disfellowshipping" the innocent- not Good PR or Godly.

Nobody knows why the WTS has stopped mailing the magazines. Geezzzz...what another secret to wait on Jehovah to reveal?

Mind your own business even if it is your business you are trying to mind. Don't ask questions. Follow. Something new to speculate about and get your mind off this stuff, something to talk or not talk about depending on how spiritually minded you are and submissive. Another test of your faith as if there isn't enough of that everyday.

I have not re-newed my subscription or return to the KH after I read "Crisis of Conscience" - Read it to find out why. My gut level reaction was that I did not want any, I mean any association connected between me and the WTS.That it could be dangerous.

That is how seriously, deeply they have wronged the brothers and sisters around the world. They are scary and it is scary how I entrusted my spirituality to them. Never again. They are not trustworthy of guiding me spiritually.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
22:52:49
Comments

Very glad to have been directed to your web site. At the moment I cannot recall the chapter and verse, but I know that in one of the gospels, Jesus said that anyone who corrupts a child should rather tie a millstone round his neck and fling himself into the sea. That passage should be the ideal counter to molesters and protectors of the JWs as well as of any portion of Christ's Church.

Remote User:
Date:
08 Jun 2002
Time:
23:53:05
Comments

To the people or the organization that decides to throw around BS accusations and the word "apostate." As you use the word wanton it looses its shock factor. I don't care if you write it. It does not have any value to most of us here. The WTS and its members have hurt most of us so deeply your words have little value. I however don't like games so I tell you what. Every time someone drops the word "apostate" without any real accusation and substance, or slanders someone that I respect on this site I will be sure to donate an amount higher than I would have otherwise. Criticize someone for caring about abuse then you have just made a donation to this site. Make an ass of yourself because you don't like what this site stands for. You just donated to this site. If you want no money to come in well I will send money so too bad, but if you want to help be sure to keep up the sophic attitude. Your donation will be appreciated.

Have a nice day!

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
00:01:24
Comments

TO THE PERSON ASKING WHY- ABOUT STRIPPERS!!!! (June 8 10:13:51 from Plano,Tx)

I came from (what people who knew my parents) would be considered good two parent family, and that I had a "great up bringing". Well, I was a stripper for 6yrs and very promiscuous even before I was a stripper. In the yrs of being in that field(waiting tables,bartending,dancing,etc) I can tell you that almost every girl I talked to had been sexually abused or abused in some form, if not- they were putting themselves through school, or supporting children as well as themselves with no outside help. There are always the ones(which is very rare) that do it for attention or for shock value. For the most part I saw mostly pain or the numbing of the pain(drinking, drugs, sex ,etc). I am out of that environment now, but I would not change the lessons I have learned by being there. You really never know why people dance or have sex casually, but sometimes-most of the time the person doing it doesn't know why either.

Jesika Thoman---Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
00:01:40
Comments

TO THE PERSON ASKING WHY- ABOUT STRIPPERS!!!! (June 8 10:13:51 from Plano,Tx)

I came from (what people who knew my parents) would be considered good two parent family, and that I had a "great up bringing". Well, I was a stripper for 6yrs and very promiscuous even before I was a stripper. In the yrs of being in that field(waiting tables,bartending,dancing,etc) I can tell you that almost every girl I talked to had been sexually abused or abused in some form, if not- they were putting themselves through school, or supporting children as well as themselves with no outside help. There are always the ones(which is very rare) that do it for attention or for shock value. For the most part I saw mostly pain or the numbing of the pain(drinking, drugs, sex ,etc). I am out of that environment now, but I would not change the lessons I have learned by being there. You really never know why people dance or have sex casually, but sometimes-most of the time the person doing it doesn't know why either.

Jesika Thoman---Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
00:02:00
Comments

TO THE PERSON ASKING WHY- ABOUT STRIPPERS!!!! (June 8 10:13:51 from Plano,Tx)

I came from (what people who knew my parents) would be considered good two parent family, and that I had a "great up bringing". Well, I was a stripper for 6yrs and very promiscuous even before I was a stripper. In the yrs of being in that field(waiting tables,bartending,dancing,etc) I can tell you that almost every girl I talked to had been sexually abused or abused in some form, if not- they were putting themselves through school, or supporting children as well as themselves with no outside help. There are always the ones(which is very rare) that do it for attention or for shock value. For the most part I saw mostly pain or the numbing of the pain(drinking, drugs, sex ,etc). I am out of that environment now, but I would not change the lessons I have learned by being there. You really never know why people dance or have sex casually, but sometimes-most of the time the person doing it doesn't know why either.

Jesika Thoman---Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
01:43:03
Comments

I know that this comment is for the Silentlambs site but the JW's state to look at their side with links so I did. And I don't know what has changed. Its not their stance. If they are changing at all why are they DFing people? "Division?" Well, I would sure back up as they give their arguments on the stance of rape and abuse victims in the name of God...

I looked at the FQA section. IS THAT REALLY HOW THEY THINK THAT THEY ACT???

They do not shun family that is Disfellowshipped? Lie It is your own family who is the cruelest. I have cut mine off. I have disavowed them. I will not accept calls nor let them in my house. I was very public in my family about it and have so much support. I recommend it to anyone in the situation of being shunned for any reason. Let them go! Be hostile if necessary. Cut them out of your life and treat them like the cancer that they truly are. You will be happier without them. I know they are just brainwashed. But you can not save them. Save yourself!

(Back to the JW official link)

They think they are kind,(not) good(not) mild(not) REASONABLE???(give me a break) They are right and the world is wrong...They could never comprehend the thought that the world is right and they are wrong...Reasonable...((((PLEASE!))))

They need to be caught on tape. That is the only thing that will show the world the true nature of these jerks!

Man...Piss me off!

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
02:43:11
Comments

I just saw the whole Dateline News re-air segment on JW pedophiles and it was fantastic. I saw it once already but I just had to record it this time. I am happy that I heard what happened and I hope that all Witnesses will begin to open their eyes and see the real TRUTH !!!

W R in Orlando

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
03:06:02
Comments

To the person who asked about female pedophiles. My mother is a pedophile and was a JW for about 55 years. I posted on guest book April 29 21:03:50. ldsommer@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
03:50:54
Comments

Thanks, Larry.

John 11:45-48 - I can't think of a more fitting scripture. No wonder you were qualified to be an elder! (I mean that in the best sense).

Have you left the religion?

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
13:16:52
Comments

Has anyone been to Gracetoyou - John MacArthur??? He has very good essays on his site. If you read his writings and apply them to the WTS it is easy to look at the disgrace of it all. He is very very clear about what it means to forgive and under what conditions. All scripture backed of course. I do not agree with his "hell" doctrine but otherwise he is very succinct(spelling is bad) and does not mince his words.

Trouble with WTS - they are speaking to and of the lambs - never of themselves. The lambs have been so brainwashed with the fear of apostasy to NOT question the WTS behavior - that the lambs have turned on themselves and each other. They are devouring each other. Husband beats wife, wife beats children or stands by & watches husband beat children, children act out or hide in fear- what is the difference. Same pattern. Same result.

Any brother or sister who stands for Jehovah won't stand for this no matter who the WTS say they are. To divide is to conquer - to keep the brothers/sister at each other, is a triangulation of relationship being created by the WTS (and God is out of the picture entirely.} Keep the masses too busy with injustices with each other, burdened, and emotionally upset so they haven't the time to question who is creating this the conflict.

The "spiritual" ones are calling the rest names and labeling. The lifting up of the ego spirit by labeling the rest unspiritual, imperfect only applies to the spiritual and the rest are damned. To show how spiritual one is by labeling another unspiritual is arrogant, - I have done it myself. It is saying "I am self-righteous" without saying it I judge you as not spiritual based on what I perceive as spiritual is a big piece of wood in my eye. Constantly being told that you cannot trust the heart and confusing the heart with what is right while the common sense and decency is being beat out of you, shamed out of you. Being constantly told you have no where else to go...being told to go along with anything or else....being confused all the time about what is right and wrong, refining and constantly refining is no way to have a relationship with Jehovah, no way to have relationship with each other or yourself.

Pat answers, one-liners are a put-off to put you off, whether it is scripture or not. Pat answers are devoid of care about a solution to a problem. It is to put up with and cover up over.

When you are afraid to speak up, or leave a situation because you have no where else to go - it is the same position that a molested child would be in, or a battered wife would find herself in - JWs are being abused, oppressed being battered into believing that they have no other place to go and so they must wait on the Father, they must tolerate the abuse, they must or they will lose their life. When will Daddy come home and rescue us??

Can you imagine Jesus saying you have no where else to go to an oppressed, battered, molested, raped or otherwise misused human being??? The scriptures do not back this and how dare anyone apply the scriptures to such battered ones or to Jesus putting this meaning to his words.

You can "imagine" it as such - but it is only a fantasy. Jesus has no tolerance for the wicked, and their wickedness. Watch what you imagine, who put it into your head for you to imagine that Jesus said you had no where else to go when you are battered by the same one (husband, Elder, WTS) who tells you this.

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
15:39:27
Comments

For What it's Worth and it seems to be a lot here is a post moved up from May 2001

As a lifelong, fourth generation Jehovah's Witness, I have no direct, personal knowledge of any incident of child molestation with the organization. However, I personally have been given warnings on two separate occasions by two different elders. In one instance, my wife's brother, an elder who had sat on many judicial committees and appeals committees, advised my wife and me never to trust ANYONE, even a witness in good standing or a witness family member, to EVER be alone with either of our two small children. On another occasion, my brother, who is an elder, learned that our teenage daughter was spending the night with a witness friend of hers whose grandparents lived in the same home. He informed my wife and me that the friend's grandfather, himself a longtime elder, was a pedophile. If not for the previous advice and the fact that this comment came from my own fleshly brother whom I trust completely, I would have been doubtful of the information. File this entry under "For What It's Worth," please. <anderson_mccrew@hotmail.com>

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
15:49:10
Comments

Another top of the line post from the past, May 2001 It has been noticed that some recent post are going of topic. Let focus people. If you have another pet peeve with the JW's go start a website on that yourself.

I was shocked and horrified to read of the Society's view towards child molestation. I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but left the congregation when I was fifteen. Although my story differs somewhat, it is yet another example of how the congregation's elders have abused their power. My sister was raped when she was twenty-four by a man she did not know. The man had come along with my sister's best-friend and her husband to try to find employment in our city. My sister was not comfortable with this man staying at her apartment as he was worldly and she did not know him. She let him stay to watch a movie and then he was going to go stay at a hotel. She felt safe doing this because she was not going to be left alone with him as her best-friend and husband would be there. She also did not want to convey an unfriendly attitude towards him. He had shown some interest in the truth and she did not want to portray the congregation as unsympathetic to a potential study who had traveled quite a distance. Unfortunately, her best-friend and husband decided to go to bed before the movie ended, but my sister didn't think much of it because the movie was almost done. After he was sure everyone in the apartment had gone to sleep he decided to make his move. My sister spurned his advances emphatically and told him to leave. That's when he decided he was going to have her whether she liked it or not. In other words, he raped her. After it happened, my sister told my father who told her that she must tell the elders about what happened. He thought that they may be able to provide her with spiritual counseling to help her through the aftermath instead of her seeking outside worldly professional help. To make a long story short, they disfellowshipped her. Their reason was that she was guilty of "loose conduct that lead to fornication." They said she should have never had him in her home in first place and then this wouldn't have happened. They also said that because she only told him "NO!" repeatedly and did not scream that she was not emphatic enough and he must have thought she was enjoying it. I lost all faith and respect for the truth the day she was disfellowshipped. I will never step foot in another kingdom hall.

I think what you are doing with this website is very courageous of you. I can only imagine how it felt to finally realize how many young children were hurt because of the society's egotistical beliefs. It's bad enough when children are victimized in the first place, but to then have it happen again at the hands of people who claim to be compassionate and caring is beyond low. Please keep up your efforts, if you can tip off just one parent before it happens to their child you've accomplished your goal. I will leave my e-mail address with you and if there is anything I can do to help, I would be honored to try. I know there is no "heaven" but if there were I'm sure God would have already reserved you your spot. Take care and best of luck in the future.

candacemcfadden@home.com

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
15:51:06
Comments

Good Idea:

Someone said they're married to a JW and just wish the person would read this website. The thing to do I have found is to summarize the main points of the information along with its sources in a brief letter which you then mail to the spouse. Being human they will read it 95% of the time even though the Watchtower heads have forbidden it countless times. If you verbally try to get the person to look at such information they will usually resist because they are under threat of disfellowshipment etc. But the letter in the mail route is highly effective.

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
16:07:46
Comments

From June 2001 a very insightful post:

The more I talk to former JWs, the more I realize how pervasive rape & incest are within in the organization. Even though most JWs are good natured people, the totalitarianism, misogyny, and isolation of the group as a whole makes it fertile ground for sexual abuse of all types. Thank you for making this information public.

bj_rio@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
18:18:33
Comments

WTS is organized by the PR department and the legal department, in the spirit of image and protecting themselves legally. Not organized by Jehovah's spirit at all. Backed by legal and PR not Jehovah's Holy spirit.

It has been spiritual warfare against the lambs by the very people who are protecting the image and finding legal loop holes to do it.

Every story told is heartbreaking to me. I don't know you, can't see your face, or observe your pain at a meeting or say "Hi sister" and yet people who are your "friends" are not heartbroken for you and they break your spirit as well, "watch" you suffer, cause you to suffer some more and expect you to pray and get over it all backed & directed by the PR and legal department in the spirit of image & "legalistic" loop holes. Pat the pedophile on the back with a false show of "christian " love backed by ??????? while abandoning and betraying a child. YUCK. Backed by yuck, in the spirit of yuck.

WTS knows they are not backed by Jehovah's spirit. How can they not know it? A liar knows when they lie - they do it with full knowledge. There is no such thing as one lie. The lie is to change the perception of reality for you not them. To manipulate, to control, to make you doubt what you know, to implant a thought or idea in your mind. They know they don't have Jehovah's spirit and they don't want you to know it. Jehovah hates a liar. Satan is the father of the lie. Who can get you to deny this???? Who is getting you to deny this? The meek not the liars, not the ones who harm the meek, but the meek will inherit the earth.

I follow Jesus backed by Jehovah. Not an "organization" backed by good PR or a legal department "designed" to look good but isn't.

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
18:38:11
Comments

I saw a very sweet sister - yesterday. When she first became one of Jehovah's witnesses her son was molested, probably raped by an "Elder" - that son went on to molest another one of her children when he was older. I don't know the details. But she shared with me when I first met her what a "spiritual crisis" this was for her and how divided she is between the son who was molested by the elder, and same son became a pedophile from this experience and the other child touched by this son. A mother torn between two children all caused by an "elder." Elder remained in good standing, he died, whole congregation is spiritually zapped. Very inappropriate behavior, sexual innuendos jokes, talk, dress and body language. Big reason I was not safe there.

I gave her a big hug - but I was afraid to tell her about silentlambs. Suggestion about mailing a letter sounds good.

In addition, daughter who was molested by the son, rebelled against the JWS, went on to have a horrible life drugs, men etc.. which ended in a car accident 8 months or so ago. She died disfellowshipped - can you imagine????? the pain and emotional upset that this mother is going through - all for Jehovah???? or for the WTS? I wanted to tell her about this web site. There is a dad too - and he was very close to this daughter and he is baptized too.

Sister expressed to me while telling me the story - that she was being put through a trial to test her faith by these events. What she fails to realized that Jehovah would never expect her to put up with this - put her children in danger, have them harmed and destroyed for the privilege of her having accurate knowledge. Tear her family apart and see if she remains faithful to the "discreet slave" - that tore her family apart. What kind of cruelty is this? How dare anyone say that Jehovah's spirit backs this.

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
20:58:25
Comments

" The only way to defeat an enemy is to deny it battle."

If the JW's will not or can not change their ways.

Silentlambs is here to help.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are in a war.

In war the children are always the first to suffer.

I am glad that this site and all the work of dedicated silentlambs is here to care for the walking wounded.

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
23:44:39
Comments

Please send money soon, I need to make my new car payment this month. (a car I will use of course for travel in my new venture) You will notice a small box in the left hand corner of your screen with a visa and mastercard logo.

Thank you in advance fellow "Silentlambs"

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
23:44:49
Comments

Please send money soon, I need to make my new car payment this month. (a car I will use of course for travel in my new venture) You will notice a small box in the left hand corner of your screen with a visa and mastercard logo.

Thank you in advance fellow "Silentlambs"

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
23:44:58
Comments

Please send money soon, I need to make my new car payment this month. (a car I will use of course for travel in my new venture) You will notice a small box in the left hand corner of your screen with a visa and mastercard logo.

Thank you in advance fellow "Silentlambs"

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
23:45:07
Comments

Please send money soon, I need to make my new car payment this month. (a car I will use of course for travel in my new venture) You will notice a small box in the left hand corner of your screen with a visa and mastercard logo.

Thank you in advance fellow "Silentlambs"

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
09 Jun 2002
Time:
23:45:16
Comments

Please send money soon, I need to make my new car payment this month. (a car I will use of course for travel in my new venture) You will notice a small box in the left hand corner of your screen with a visa and mastercard logo.

Thank you in advance fellow "Silentlambs"

Bill Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
02:01:28
Comments

I am so glad to find this site,my very best friend for life went through a terrible ordeal,when her now ex husband molested her daughter from a previous marriage we are no longer witnesses,but all these stories are real,i know I lived it with her,can you believe it ,when the pervert was finally arrested it was Jehovah witnesses who bailed him out,my friend was disfellowshipped,i was disfellowshipped because I chose to go to a mental hospital so I could deal with the sexual abuse I dealt with as a child,i was told Jehovah should be our only help,i told them they were unqualified to deal with it ,then I seen the writing on the wall,so I lied told them I had been smoking weed,and the kicked me out,i will try to get my friend to post her story you wont believe it my email is netsroses@yahoo.com ej

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
02:44:06
Comments

To all who think of JWs are sexual perverts:

Most JWs are very meek and honest hearted ones. They just try to do the right thing. ( 1Cor.6:1-7)Do you remember the scripture where Jesus says that in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, you have to be like a child? I guess in a way they are like one. I think it is the leaders, who are threatening the congregations, also have the problems. Apparently throughout the history they have been like this. How sad! Maybe Jehovah left them long time ago. Maybe that's why they have to change so many times to get it right like blinds searching for treasure.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
05:44:43
Comments

Well,I guess the Catholic Church Isn't alone in this matter. This will make things in the door to door preaching more interesting for my wife who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was too about twenty years ago , before being disfellowshipped for alcoholism. It seems that the Congregation Isn't equipped to really help It's members in every way possible. All they did for me is throw me out. As It turned out I've been sober for almost twenty years now. I guess in that respect the disfellowshipping worked. I never did go back , but my wife hasn't given up on me. Too bad they choose to isolate themselves. There sure are a lot of good people out here in the world. I heard of a shocking child abuse case in Naugatuck Ct. My wife used to attend that congregation and is friends with this ten year boys mom. Dad would force the boy to have sex with him. It did all came out and the police were contacted. Dad did do jail time for approx. eight years. Has anyone ever mentioned that there are other forms of child abuse going on at these congregation meetings? My wife tells me about it and it makes me crazy! I think there are way too many spankings and beatings given to young children , sometimes they're under one year of age. All because they can't sit still and be quiet for two hours! COME ON! Now I also know that there has been counsel from the platform about this. So who's job is it to make sure the counsel is followed?

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
06:35:18
Comments

This is a shocking subject that should not be concealed. How dare they even call themselves Christian, while allowing these things to happen in their congregations. No wonder they also have one of the worlds highest suicide rates! This site is doing an excellent job. Well done to all concerned.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
08:47:57
Comments

I too used to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was a victim of incest as a child and I believe that along with other emotional issues caused me to turn to "religion", specifically the Witnesses to be my family. I believe that, that is the type of person that is so desperate to belong that finds themselves amongst the Witnesses. There sadly was an incident involving my child and another child that was never reported and I have problems with it to this day even though it happened many years ago. While I don't agree completely with everything in the statement I read at your website, I do believe and understand enough to agree with your assessment of the situation. Sadly I feel any that do voice an opinion such as mind will be labeled as an "apostate", this term is bandied about far to often when someone out of clear conscience leaves the organization. ChrisG@nandomail.com

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
09:24:49
Comments

This took a lot of courage. Bravo for supporting the victims and survivors of the JW organization.

Sincerely,

Kristina Hibshman Berger kberger@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
11:08:25
Comments

If a pedophile is smart he will stick to one child so that there will never be "two witnesses" to accuse him. Very good. There has to be a better way than that. There are scores of stories that belie the fact of the "two witness" theory.

It is against the law to endanger a child, it is morally wrong to endanger a child, and it is spiritually dark to silence the lambs or keep them in the "dark."

An elder from the congregation I was attending had a study with a pedophile who was going out in service. This brother let this "guy" come to his home, be around his children and wife. Fin anally, the wife put a stop to it. But here is a brother soooo naive that he would bring a "study" who is a pedophile into his home around his daughters.

Thank god for "gossip" ---that is the only way I would have known about this. It is misplaced loyalty. This brother "thinks" that being loyal to Jehovah requires being disloyal to his own family. This brother showed christian love to the wrong person.

The problem for me was how could I trust an Elder that uses such poor judgement?. If an Elder brings someone to his home, I would assume that the guest is okay and safe. Then maybe I would invite this person to my home or befriend him. This is the same congregation that had a Ped-brother for years and certainly destroyed the life of more than one.

The "study" finally stopped studying, end of issue. Thank god.

The WTS has more than enough information about how pedophiles operate to educate the congregations from the platform and put pedophiles on warning that we know how they operate. Especially Especially because the "friends" stick so close to each other and trust each other so much and are encouraged to branch out. They are deceived as to how clean the congregations are and have to resort to Gossip to protect each other.

Everyone is entitled to know. Everyone has children, nieces & nephews or grandchildren - very few don't. I disowned my own brother, who "entertains" the other brother who sexually assaulted my children. My brother has never ever shown any concern for what happen to my kids - but only concern for the pedophile brother. And he isn't even a witness and yet he shows the same kind of love to a pedophile that the witnesses do.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
12:24:57
Comments

Hello Bill! Doubt If you remember me, but I remember you, we were at Bethel together( that seems like another lifetime now). Hey GREAT job you`re doing for all of these people. DON`T STOP! EVER! Be good, Bob G.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
12:28:00
Comments

I believe that if God want's to say something that is important He mentions it more than once in his Word. I would respectfully ask that all J.W's read Matt.19. 13-15. Mark 10. 13-16. Luke 18. 15-17.

Please don't try to interpret it, just read it and hear what Jesus, the Word of Jehovah God actually said about children. Also, note the compassion that Jesus showed for children, lets try a little bit of that too. It doesn't matter who you are or where your religious affiliations lay. Children are special gifts to us all and deserve our protection. Please do not let the strict rulings within the Society allow us to fail these little ones.

alchristy@sctemail.co.uk

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
13:33:01
Comments

Just a reminder:

The Constitution of the United States GUARANTEES you (and everyone else) the right to say ANYTHING to ANYONE.

Outside of the obvious (like yelling 'Fire!' in a crowded movie theater), no one has a legal right to stop you.

Now you know why.

When someone wants to eradicate your Constitutional rights, you must pause and ask why.

Likely they are up to no good.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
14:20:46
Comments

ANSWERS TO SOME QUESTIONS

To answer the question on why magazine subscriptions have stopped....it purely was a matter of cost. There is no charge for literature and all done on a donation basis and the cost was too high. WT's and Awakes are still available to everyone through the Kingdom Halls and door to door, if so desired. BTW....The Kingdom Hall I grew up in had windows. The current one I'm in does not. My Dads KH in Georgia has windows.

For those of you bashing the organization. Several points: We are not isolated, ignorant, brainwashed people. I go to work everyday where I manage a large group of people of all faiths. I've got a brain and am allowed to think. If my child was sexually abused, I would go to the elders and to the police to stop the abuser. The elders would not threaten me with disfellowshipping. There are some knuckleheads in the WT organization, just like in any other organization who have not treated problems correctly and have truly mishandled some problems. For the most part, elders within these congregations are hard working, honest people, trying to worship God and do the right thing. This organization will make mistakes because it is not perfect. We are warned to watch our association, even in the Kingdom Hall. Personally, my husband and I watch our children and our association inside and outside the organization. Please, there are many good people out there and when I read the ridiculous comments some of you are making in ignorance it tells me that you are merely here to 'Witness bash'. Bill's reason for being here is for the children. If you want to get real information on JW's please go to an accurate source. jw-media.org and watchtower.org If you've been abused, get the help you need...there is nothing wrong with getting professional help. Beth

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
14:28:50
Comments

To: Bill Bowen, all "Silentlambs", and interested Jehovah's Witnesses or parties.

From: bjc2read@yahoo.com

I just wanted to take this occasion to point out a particular verse or two in the book of Ezekiel that could be possibly be viewed as very pertinent to your cause in exposing Child Abuse in the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.

What if in BIBLE PROPHECY, Jehovah God pinpoints this particularly unique and regrettable "situation" you are dealing with for Avid Bible Students today, and the resulting aftermath of it, when exposed to the world?

Could it be possible?

Ezekiel 36:3 says,

"Therefore prophesy, and you must say, This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: For the reason, even for the reason that there has been a lying desolate and a snapping at you from all sides, in order for you to become a possession to the remaining ones of the nations and you [Israel] CONTINUE TO BE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE TONGUE AND THERE IS A BAD REPORT AMONG PEOPLE,"

What is this "Bad Report" that is circulating among people of the world about modern-day "Israel" [Jehovah's Witnesses] in these "last days"?

THE "BAD REPORT" -- WHAT IS IT?

Ezekiel 36:13, 14 says,

"This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, "For the reason that there are those saying to you: "A DEVOURER OF HUMANKIND is what you [Israel] yourself are, and [a land] BEREAVING YOUR NATIONS OF CHILDREN is what you have become,"

...let's just pause here.

a) Child molestation & abuse = "BEREAVING YOUR NATIONS OF CHILDREN."

Clear-cut point. Also,

b) Vicious Disfellowshipment of responsible Adults who try to help and correct the problem, makes Israel "A DEVOURER OF HUMANKIND."

Another clear-cut point.

Could it be, possibly, this is what the prophet envisioned for our day? Really, it is something to think about, isn't it?

Now, let's continue reading,

"...therefore humankind you will no more DEVOUR, and your nations YOU [ISRAEL] WILL NO MORE BEREAVE OF CHILDREN," is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah."

Jehovah God says this reproachful conduct by His People Israel, will Stop! But how?

How will Jehovah God himself bring a halt to this "bereavement of children" of "your nations," nations belonging to "Israel" -- their own "children."

Answer: Ezekiel 36:12 which says,

"And UPON YOU [ISRAEL] I [JEHOVAH] WILL CAUSE HUMANKIND TO WALK, even my people Israel, and they must take possession of you, and you must become a hereditary possession to them, and YOU WILL NOT BEREAVE THEM AGAIN OF ANY MORE CHILDREN."

JEHOVAH GOD causes "humankind" of this earth, the world in general, to literally take vengeance on God's People Israel [Jehovah's Witnesses] and "WALK" all over Israel. Simply put, "Israel" [Jehovah's Witnesses] are caught, exposed, captured, hemmed up in a world-wide "siege" by the world in general, all by Jehovah God's help, direction and permission! -- See Zechariah 12:1-3.

In other words, with God's permission, the "nations" of this world will stump "Israel" [Jehovah's Witnesses] into the ground and make a PUBLIC SPECTACLE of them, for carrying on this heinous activity and covering it up. "Humankind" will "take possession" of Israel, make them a "hereditary possession to themselves."

And since Jehovah God Himself has authorized it, ordained this, the child molestation will certainly STOP among Jehovah's Witnesses. The "bereavement of children," as Jehovah has said, will finally stop once it is exposed to the world. And all the "nations" belonging to "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses, will be free of "bereavement of children" before our God Jehovah. Because God has seen their wickedness that they have practiced, and He will bring a halt to it, by the means He has outlined in His Word.

This DIRECT ACTION OF GOD thus, becomes the very beginning of Jehovah's direct intervention and administering of the much prophesied Great Divine Discipline upon His Own Name People, clearly demonstrating to the world that "judgment" does indeed "start with the House of God." -- Please consider Jeremiah 25:29; 1 Peter 4:17; Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20; 30:23, 24; Micah 4:6, 7; Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 11:2, 3; 13:5-7.

I'd say that is something to ponder, wouldn't you?

Thanks for your ear in listening to the above and for the good job you are doing in exposing this particular wicked situation that exists among Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation.

There can be no doubt but that the existence of this troubling situation among Jehovah's Witnesses proves that Jehovah is forced to REMOVE any reproach or actions that tend to "profane His Name" in any way. Bible prophecy shows He will remedy the situation by chasing his people to "the wilderness of the peoples" and "purging" of the JW Organization of its "revolters" and "transgressors" before Him. After which, He will restore His people and "pour out His spirit" upon them, as a repentant people. -- See Ezekiel 20:9, 14, 22, 44; 35-39; 39:21-29; Compare also Revelation 12:1, 6, 14 for similarities in message.

Because of unrepentantly practicing sin before God on the part of the Jehovah Witnesses as a nation, Jehovah will be forced to "SANCTIFY HIMSELF". This means he will "hold himself holy" or "treat himself sacred" or holy, and His Great Name as such, by taking necessary steps to protect His Great Name because of the bad conduct of the people, as shown at Ezekiel 39:27. (See footnote on this verse in large print New World Translation Ref. Bible)

bjc

Any questions or thoughts from any interested party, please e-mail me at bjc2read@yahoo.com

PS to "silentlambs": You may remember, I posted this info to you on JW.com discussion board last summer. Great going! (See link below.)

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8040&site=3

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
14:50:52
Comments

http://www.macgregorministries.org/jw_lawyers.html

If you are in a divorce situation with a Jehovah Witness and the custody of children at stake, You need to go to this link before you go to court.

http://www.freeminds.org/psych/whylie.htm

If you plan to go to court and take on a Jehovah's Witness or the "Organization" they worship you need to prepare yourself for what you are up against. This sophic propaganda machine has a legion of legal and layman warriors waiting to crush anyone who stands in their way.

"You don't want to come to my camp… What do I care… I have your children… Soon you will be gone… But your children will be in my camp"

-Adolf Hitler 1932 speech on dissidents to the Nazi Party

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
15:43:25
Comments

In response to Beth:

>Several points: We are not isolated,

Yes you are!You see everybody as an enemy!!You even cant be friends with 'apostates'!!

>ignorant, brainwashed people.

Yes you are!Responses to this site prove it!

>I go to work everyday where I manage a large group >of people of all faiths.

So?? Doesn't prove you not brainwashed!!

>I've got a brain and am allowed to think.

Well, that's your standard answer, but when you do use it, like f.i. Bill, you get DF!!!!! So much for being allowed to use your brains!!!!!So why don't you all use it then to convince the WTS to change their policy in order to protect innocent children!! Cause when you really would use your brains you have to agree that no predator will allow two witnesses during his malicious deeds!

>If my child was sexually abused, I would go to the >elders and to the police to stop the abuser.

Oh yeah? And what if they tell you to shut up, like they did to so many people, or threaten you with DF???

>The elders would not threaten me with >disfellowshipping.

How do you know for sure??What makes you so special to think that it wont happen to you but it did happen to thousands of other people??

>There are some knuckleheads in the WT >organization, just like in any other organization >who have not treated problems correctly and have >truly mishandled some problems.

So, do something about it!!At least the Catholic Church is, so why not the WTS? They are still in the denial phase!!!! And instead of helping the people who came forward with it, they DF them??????

>For the most part, elders within these >congregations are hard working, honest people, >trying to worship God and do the right thing.

Apparently a lot of them are not!!!

>This organization will make mistakes because it is >not perfect.

So admit it... by putting an excuse on the cover of the next Awake, instead of denying everything!

>and when I read the ridiculous comments some of >you are making in ignorance

Ignorance?? You must be out of your mind??? YOU are the one who is ignorant, they all had those terrible experiences, you obviously didn't!

>to get real information on JW's please go to an >accurate source. jw-media.org and watchtower.org

Accurate source?????? You mean a source that only boost his own ego??? *LOL* If this source was 'accurate' then it should have let all their docile sheep know a long time ago what was going on re. child-abuse!! Most people didn't find out until the Dateline program?????

>If you've been abused, get the help you >need...there is nothing wrong with getting >professional help.

Right, that's what they all did, as they were told to do, trying to get help within their organizations and obviously most of them were told to shut up and send packing, and elders just aren't professional enough to help these people, they are merely volunteers with NO special training so how on earth can they judge things like this???

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
16:18:16
Comments

I stopped making contributions to the WT Society when I realized that my hard-earned money was going to support my molester at one of the Society's facilities!...How so?

I was paying for HIS medical expenses, HIS dental expenses, HIS insurance, HIS transportation, the roof over HIS head, HIS food, HIS clothing, HIS utilities, HIS laundry, HIS tailoring, HIS recreation facilities.......in short, whatever HE needed!

How could I ever end up SUPPORTING

THEN, I thought about the lawsuits against the WT. It sickened me to think that my money went to defend the WT against victims of their varied abuses when they tried to exact justice from the WT for their misdeeds against them.

NOW, victims like myself are suing the WT. Did I want to be paying for the WT to defend my perp or any other in a court of law???!!! You better believe that I DIDN'T!!!

How could I ever end up SUPPORTING the man who raped me!!!???...while I scraped by or went without!!!???

So, GOOD-BYE, NO MORE CONTRIBUTIONS TO WTBTS from my meager earnings!!!

Yes, I told, but nobody listened! Yes, he is "KNOWN" to the elders to whom I spoke about it. But, I don't have two witnesses...yet!

Even if I did they have already let me know in the 1995 WT "COMFORT (caps added) for Those With a Stricken Spirit" that it won't do me any good because they won't do anything about it. You see, I have had amnesia due to the horrific nature of the abuse and my "recovered memories" aren't considered valid by those who make the policies.

What a twist! First, in the October 8, 1991 Awake! they gave me "permission" to remember the abuse. Then in the 1995 WT above they took away the good impact that my memories would have had.

I CRIED SO HARD WHEN I REALIZED JUST WHAT THEY HAD DONE TO ME AND THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS!!! HE STILL GETS TO HIDE!!! These animals are being shielded, protected and even cared for by the WT in every way possible! Doesn't it make you wonder if any of the policy-makers are pedophiles?

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
16:22:18
Comments

I agree with the person who said that she has a brain and is a JW. To talk about modern day "self-censorship" as brainwashing does not mean that JW's are lobotomized. It seems that the average JW is very intelligent in literature (Biblical) and most have a respectable grasp on the concept of philosophy. (Rhetoric, and Sophic.) It is sad that so many JW's think that anyone who disagrees publicly with them is "bashing them." Some of the above comments are over the top and "bashing." All of them however are not. Some people are hurt, others angry and betrayed by the very people that they love and trust. Other's like me become "frustrated" with the blind loyalty. Educated people will change their view if evidence shows that the ideology they believe in is flawed. Propagandists will not. Indoctrination should never be considered education. It is not. The main issue with the JW official sites is that there is no forum for comment or review. (Censure) They only show their side to every issue. (Stack the deck.) They dismiss anything that does not show the WTS's favor.

I question Rodney Stark as a credible source for WT justification. "The worst place to get information about a group is from a person who has left the group." Mr. Stark claims in his work on religious growth and JW's that "disfellowshipping is rare and that most members "defect" from the Organization." They then become angry. He then dismisses anyone who has any negative comments about JW's who was a former member. He ridicules "cult analysis," and "exit counseling." (But I don't know how that applies to religious growth.) He says that the Jehovah's Witnesses were never really associated with Russell, and that Rutherford is now called the true founder of the organization "Jehovah's Witnesses." Anyone who has not been a member should not comment on them. And as we have seen anyone inside the club who speaks out causes division and is either disfellowshipped or through coercion "defects" and is now untrustworthy.

I agree with Mr. Stark so much that much of the "Jehovah's Witnesses" deeds are ignored. (Good and Bad) I agree that it is wrong that Academia does not recognize them, and their accomplishments, and their faults. When I want to write about them in college it is hard to find sources of scholarly worthiness. I am glad to find Mr. Stark's academic work. He does however seem to quote himself or his own work to justify his position often.

Does anyone know where Mr. Stark is currently working? I would like to contact him. Is he a JW? Does he work for The Watchtower. Did the Watchtower pay him for his comments on the Organization? I am asking because in order to write about a controversial organization you need to know the background of the cited authors. I.e. is he affiliated with the organization. Was he paid, or does he have an axe to grind?

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
17:05:17
Comments

I stopped making contributions to the WT Society when I realized that my hard-earned money was going to support my molester at one of the Society's facilities!...How so?

I was paying for HIS medical expenses, HIS dental expenses, HIS insurance, HIS transportation, the roof over HIS head, HIS food, HIS clothing, HIS utilities, HIS laundry, HIS tailoring, HIS recreation facilities.......in short, whatever HE needed!

How could I ever end up SUPPORTING the man who raped me!!!...while I scraped by or went without!!!

Then, I thought about the lawsuits against the WT. It sickened me to think that my money went to help defend the WT against the victims of their varied abuses when they took the WT to court in order to get justice.

Now, victims like myself are suing the WT. Did I want to be paying for the WT to defend my perp or any other in a court of law? You better believe that I didn't!!!

So, GOOD-BYE, NO MORE CONTRIBUTIONS TO WTBTS from my meager earnings!!!

For those who are wonder, yes, I told, but nobody seemed to care! Yes, he is "KNOWN" to the elders to whom I spoke about it. But, I don't have two witnesses...yet.

Even if I did the Society already let me know in the 1995 WT "COMFORT (caps added) for Those With a Stricken Spirit" that it won't do me any good because they won't do anything about it. You see, I have had amnesia due to the horrific nature of the abuse and my "recovered memories" are considered, by those who make the policies, as "dubious", not to be trusted as reliable and not valid enough for them to take action on.

What a twist! First, in the October 8, 1991 Awake they gave me "permission" to remember the abuse. What a relief from the pressure the elders put me under for remembering! Then in the 1995 WT above they took away everything they had given me in the 1991 Awake and with that they took away my rights as his victim to see him brought to justice. Instead, they proceeded to put him in a place "out of reach." (See NWT Reference Bible Ps. 91:14, I think, footnote)

To keep me quiet he had threatened to disfellowship me and he threatened to kill someone I loved. Besides that, because of his position in the organization he said, "nobody will ever believe a little tramp like you". Now that I am allowed to remember what he did to me, he can't be prosecuted in the JW judicial forum! He's safe. I get the shaft from JWs.

I CRIED SO HARD WHEN I REALIZED JUST WHAT THEY HAD DONE TO ME AND THOUSANDS OF VICTIMS!!! HE STILL GETS TO HIDE!!! These animals are being shielded, protected and even cared for by the WT in every way possible!

Doesn't it make you wonder if any of the policy-makers are child molesters!

Yes, I am outraged! What they have done is outrageous!

From a ROARING LAMB, P

P.S. Bill, please delete the message before this one. I accidentally hit "Submit Comments" before I was done. Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
17:05:45
Comments

To the person who picked apart my post, boy, you are very angry, I'm sorry. Anger sometimes doesn't help us see situations clearly. Whatever your personal situation is and if JW's have hurt you in the past, all I can say is I hope you find peace ....I am one of the "23,000 and counting people" that you first see when you load the page. I am far from ready to tell my story. Also, my daughter was almost abused by a male babysitter. Not ready to tell that story either, but, to say how stupid I was not to realize what was happening. So, after that, I can count how many times on one hand we've left our two children with babysitters. So, I think I have a right to post here. Just a comment on EGO - - - every religion has it. Every religion believes that they are worshipping God the way that He wants them to. We all need to cultivate a personal relationship with God and if I believe that being a JW is the way to do it...so be it. Another comment....I have made peace with what has happened to me. However, I've been left with an anxiety disorder that I believe is a direct result of what happened to me as a child. Beth

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
17:07:46
Comments

One more thing. No, I don't go to meetings anymore. They don't deserve me.

P

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
17:33:08
Comments

I was married to a man who's immediate family are Jehovah's Witnesses (my ex-husband chose to not become one himself when he reached adulthood). I remember my ex-sisters-in-law, ex-mother-in-law and ex-father-in-law talking badly of a woman who was molested by her father and went to the elders for help. The elders did nothing until she went to the police and filed charges, thus bringing the scandal out into the open in their small suburban town. The woman's father eventually was disfellowshipped because of the publicity BUT only because of it.

The poor woman was ostracized for wanting justice for herself and the desire to prevent her father from hurting another a child. No one in the congregation ever provided her support and kindness for the ordeal she went through. What ever happened to Christian kindness the bible speaks of?

The Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses have to learn that they are not above the secular laws established by governments and that they are not better then other so-called "worldly" religious organizations. What they are currently doing in the exactly the same as what the Catholic Church has done. Maybe even worse since the Catholic Church is now trying to amend their past mistakes, prevent future children from being hurt, and compensate the past victims of pedophile priests.

When I briefly studied w/my ex-mother-in-law she constantly made a point of telling me that the JW organization was different from other religions because they made a point of correcting their mistakes and that JWs weren't hypocrites like those in other religions. Now a light as emerged and the "truth" of Jehovah's Witnesses and The Watchtower Society is coming out for all to see.

ML

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
18:06:56
Comments

This Website is appalling and you know as well as I do that Jehovah will deal with those elders if they in fact were involved in a cover up and he will deal with you as a disgraceful apostate. Time will tell. You have made it clear to me that this system of things is truly soon coming to an end and I was molested when I was very young and my father wanted to indeed have this man arrested and I, yes I decided that Jehovah would deal with this man and that trial would be painful for me the elders in the congregation suggested that we go to the police as well and my father didn't want to see me suffer and we left the matter alone and Jehovah was my strong hold I even had a child from this situation. A few years later I was disfellowshipped for fornication but before that the counsel that I had been given before discipline was administered I did not heed. I have been disfellowshipped twice and I just learn the hard way. But I still have faith in my God and it is such a pity that you have let Satan swallow your heart in his anger.

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
18:16:26
Comments

To the woman who had a child by the molester: You are the epitome of victimization. You remain a JW after going through that whole mess, while you wait for God to exact his retribution. You blame yourself for not taking discipline. I hope everyone read that post - is this a cult or what?

For the sake of your child, I hope you get the gumption to start thinking for yourself - or else your child will be the most likely to suffer the same fate.

- Olympia, WA

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
19:29:48
Comments

I am just appalled by what I am reading. Raised as a JW, I spent countless horrible nights sad and depressed because of the state of my family. An overbearing,controlling and cruel mother and a spineless, laid-back timid "elder" father. What truth there is to these letters, reports from children being raised in a religion where image seems to be EVERYTHING. Where outside help, counseling or therapy is out of the question. Where activities are strictly monitored, advanced education is discouraged, even organized sports or school plays are banned.

I can't tell you how much rage I continue to have against my mother, even now at the age of 33. I remember every single belittling, cold and calculating thing she said to me to make me feel inferior, not worthy of Jehovah's love, not worthy of being an "elder's" daughter. But just as long as everything looked good from the outside looking in. As long as we were the perfect little family at the meeting and the assemblies. I want to vomit to think how many kids are feeling terrible today?

Plenty, I am sure.

AG ARizona

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
19:30:04
Comments

I am just appalled by what I am reading. Raised as a JW, I spent countless horrible nights sad and depressed because of the state of my family. An overbearing,controlling and cruel mother and a spineless, laid-back timid "elder" father. What truth there is to these letters, reports from children being raised in a religion where image seems to be EVERYTHING. Where outside help, counseling or therapy is out of the question. Where activities are strictly monitored, advanced education is discouraged, even organized sports or school plays are banned.

I can't tell you how much rage I continue to have against my mother, even now at the age of 33. I remember every single belittling, cold and calculating thing she said to me to make me feel inferior, not worthy of Jehovah's love, not worthy of being an "elder's" daughter. But just as long as everything looked good from the outside looking in. As long as we were the perfect little family at the meeting and the assemblies. I want to vomit to think how many kids are feeling terrible today?

Plenty, I am sure.

AG ARizona

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
20:24:20
Comments

I read about your work exposing sexual predators from within, and protected by, JW's in this morning's Melbourne 'Age' (Victoria, Australia). It gave this website address, so if there's anything like that happening here (I'm not a JW, so I don't know), hopefully more victims can get the support they need and will maybe be brave enough to go to the police and/or speak out. Good on you for taking this step - you are one courageous man!

Remote User:
Date:
10 Jun 2002
Time:
23:50:18
Comments

I am so very sorry and hurt that this kind of inhumane treatment is being exhibited by WTS. At present I am inactive. I join WTS because I believed in their teachings. Now I don't know what to believe anymore. May God bless those abused and keep them close to him. My email is drs10458@ahoo.com. I will be happy to hear from you at anytime.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
00:23:03
Comments

to 'GOKUU' -- Why on earth would you, or any half-sane person want to be associated with any religious group that advertize itself as the "TRUTH" -- such arrogance is hard to believe. It becomes clear, the more I read about the Witnesses, that they have become fixated on the word 'Jehovah' ...they hardly ever mention Jesus, or GOD ... it just a constant barrage of Jehovah .. Jehovah .. Jehovah .. over and over again. It's an ages old trick of the mind-control people; brainwash the gullible and fill their brains with catch-words and outrageous promises of never-ending life in paradise..take their money and live splendidly while controlling their movements and thinking. It seems to be impossible for the people who believe in that religious dictatorship, the Watchtower gang, to understand that true spirituality has nothing to do with organized religion (any organized religion) If Jesus ever does return to this earth (highly bloody unlikely) but if he did, and saw what the Watch Tower thieves have done to the true meaning of spirituality, he would probably nail himself back up on the stake, and give up for good. No,no, folks, it ain't gonna happen .. you're not going to paradise .. you're there now .. you just can't see it because your masters in Brooklyn have successfully blinded you to the fact with double talk and have robbed you of true spirituality .. you wouldn't belong to that organization if you had a chance to understand that cults like the JW's have nothing to do with true respect for humanity. Take a break.. read what the thinkers of the world have to say about fake, selfish religious businesses. Forget the catch words: Apostate ..disfellowshipped .. goats .. they have no real meaning .. they're part of the whole brainwashing thing. Go out and become a 'born again' person . Forget about the masters of deception who have all followed the advice of another great con-man, Ron L. Hubbard, the inventor of the Christian Scientists, who once said "If you want to make a million dollars, start a religion" Good luck, once you start reading the stuff the Watch Tower doesn't want you to read..search for the real 'Truth' and when you find it, you'll wonder why you had anything to do with the Watch Tower con-men. Again, Best of Luck .. keep searching.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
02:07:51
Comments

The real problem I find with Jehovah's Witnesses is that they used to be so nice. I remember going to meetings and people used to be genuinely happy to see me. I was at a meeting this past Sunday and during the Watchtower study one of the Elders made this comment."if we come late or we are NOT prepared for the meetings like not having our magazine (Watchtower) with us why do we even bother coming to meeting at all" I had just asked him for a extra magazine for my son who does not go anymore then 2 minutes later he makes this comment.

WHERE IS THE LOVE THAT USED TO BE SO EVIDENT??

It seems Jehovah's Witnesses have become like all other RELIGIONS (SELF RIGHTEOUS).

I do not need 1 hand to count how many friends I have or trust for that matter, I still go only cause all you wackos out there who go back to all the PAGAN doctrines i.e trinity etc, have really got no where else to go.

Basically it most be we are in the very end of this system. I hope I can hang in but the people have become real SELF RIGHTEOUS.

MIKE Ottawa, Canada

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
03:18:10
Comments

The Jehovah's Witnesses' Official Website(www.watchtower.org) has many interesting articles on child abuse posted right now. I believe their side of this issue should be considered. Besides, over the years they have published many articles dealing with the subject of child abuse, with suggestions on how to prevent child abuse and encouraging victims to report it to responsible adults and bring it out into the open.(Even articles detailing how to report these incidents to the police.) And also articles to help former victims to begin their healing process and to encourage them to "draw close to Jehovah" because this personal relationship is a source of great strength and healing while we are living in these "critical times hard to deal with". Sincerely, deborah247@iwon.com

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
04:32:10
Comments

In response to:

""It is sad that so many JW's think that anyone who disagrees publicly with them is "bashing them." ""

You are so right about this!

""Other's like me become "frustrated" with the blind loyalty. ""

Indeed, blind!!! No matter what proof you show or send them, they still defend people who are fooling them terribly! They just don't WANT to see it.

""Educated people will change their view if evidence shows that the ideology they believe in is flawed.""

Sorry, they don't!! And I know what I'm talking about!

""The main issue with the JW official sites is that there is no forum for comment or review. (Censure) They only show their side to every issue. (Stack the deck.) They dismiss anything that does not show the WTS's favor. ""

Indeed, you are absolutely right, but if you tell them, they will tell you that you are a liar and that people get paid by the Pope to write bad things about J.G.!!!! Can you believe this?? And this was an educated person who told me!!!!!

""I question Rodney Stark as a credible source for WT justification. "The worst place to get information about a group is from a person who has left the group." ""

Right again, especially because these ex J.W. were never allowed to speak out!!!And even if only half of what they say is true, it's still far TOO much horror!!!

""Mr. Stark claims in his work on religious growth and JW's that "disfellowshipping is rare and that most members "defect" from the Organization." ""

Indeed, that's why THEY want me to believe as well, how come that everybody is telling otherwise! But you see what happened to Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson?

""Anyone who has not been a member should not comment on them. ""

Why do they comment on the rest of the world then? Why are we all apostates/enemies then?? "" I am glad to find Mr. Stark's academic work. He does however seem to quote himself or his own work to justify his position often. ""

Typically cult behaviour!!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
04:39:19
Comments

To Beth:

""Just a comment on EGO - - - every religion has it. Every religion believes that they are worshipping God the way that He wants them to.""

Right, but not every religion treats the rest of the world (=the majority) as enemies and/or apostates and liars!!!! And you have to give the Catholics credit, at least they admit their mistakes and are doing something about it! And what is the WTS doing??? They DF the very few brave ones who finally dared to speak out!!!Mymy, how brave of them!!!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
04:45:06
Comments

" To the woman who had a child by the molester: You are the epitome of victimization. You remain a JW after going through that whole mess, while you wait for God to exact his retribution. You blame yourself for not taking discipline. I hope everyone read that post - is this a cult or what?""

YES!!!!! You cannot get them any better!!!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
05:46:05
Comments

Deborah, you wrote: "Besides, over the years they have published many articles dealing with the subject of child abuse, with suggestions on how to prevent child abuse and encouraging victims to report it to responsible adults and bring it out into the open"

It's great to write about those things, but it is MUCH MUCH better if you live up to it and take the action you promised, when necessary!!! And apparently they don't!!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
06:11:38
Comments

Greetings,

I am a fan of Rodney Stark and have read several of his books including his book on the growth of Christianity after Christ and his book on the history of religion in America.

When I heard he was being presented as an educated defender of JW's - especially at this time - I was a little shocked, to say the least.

For the person who asked, Mr. (Dr.?) Stark is a sociologist with an interest in religion.

He was sometimes referred to as 'the village atheist walking around with a computer' as he is fascinated with religion from a sociological point of view and has studied it intensely and brilliantly.

As I read his book on the growth of Christianity, I had the pronounced feeling that, 'this person is in the process of conversion' and his work did a lot to bolster my own my faith. I smiled that that was probably unintentional on his part.

I later read something that he in fact WAS experiencing some lights of faith turning on in his life. I was SO happy for him.

Tho meaning to, I haven't followed him as much as I've wanted to.

Recently, I saw that his picture was posted by the WTS on their page that they created to defend themselves and I'm wondering......."what's that about?"

I've not encountered anything else since. It sounds like some of you have.

Can you tell me where?

I'm REAL curious to know what's going on here and what exactly is his involvement in this 'defense'.

Rodney Stark is, in my opinion, a brilliant man (and scholar) and an engaging writer.

Please tell me where I can get a better idea of what his current relationship is with WT public relations.

Thanks

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
06:24:58
Comments

I can't imagine WHY it is not public knowledge that Jehovah's witnesses have a high rate of mental illness, a high rate of suicide and a high rate of criminal sexual behavior (even a high rate of pedophilia dating back to the 1960's).

Growing up as a child of JW's, it sure would have changed my life if someone had pointed me in a direction that helped me to realize that the people who were raising me had some severe psychiatric problems. (Lord knows, the WTS would have been a useless source of enlightenment on that topic!)

In any event, you can find more at:

www.premier1.net/~raines/mental.html

(sorry I don't know how to create a better link)

Pass it on.....

you may be helping some child who is currently suffering. They won't be children forever you know.

This may help them to develop a more healthy life for themselves as they mature.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
09:12:19
Comments

Hi, just read the latest comments resulting from airing of Dateline. About 90% pro and about 10% against. Noticed an interesting thing about the JWs who are denying that molestation exists: They cannot spell correctly, their grammar is abominable, their use of the English language is limited, and their thought processes are not orderly. Could this be an indication that the JWs who do not wish to help "un-silence" the victims are lacking in fundamental intelligence? Of course we know they lack compassion/love, but in my opinion they are also lacking in even an average degree of intelligence. Faye B.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
11:02:18
Comments

To AG Arizona (and anyone)

My heart goes out to you and others like you (us). I have found much helpful info in these texts:

'Understanding the Borderline Mother' by Lawson

'Children of the Self-Absorbed' (and any and all books on Narcissism)

'The New Personality Profile; Why You Think, Work, Love and Act the Way You Do' by Oldham.

The road is long, but as in spring, the time is inspiring, hopeful and even fun when it is growing brighter every day.

My best to you.

(Check out the customer comments on Amazon for a better idea of what these books are about)

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
11:43:34
Comments

"" I can't imagine WHY it is not public knowledge that Jehovah's witnesses have a high rate of mental illness, a high rate of suicide and a high rate of criminal sexual behavior (even a high rate of pedophilia dating back to the 1960's). ""

Cant you??? To my humble opinion, that's because you have to get those figures from the WTS itself!!!!!And they will NEVER let you now what's going on within the organization!! If they cover up all the child abuse cases, do you really think they want the world to know what's going on?? There would be nothing left of their so-called 'good' image!!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
13:44:42
Comments

Good point.

We, however, do not need their permission to talk. Or even, to speak out.

As the Bible says, what is hidden shall be revealed.

Or as Lincoln said, 'You can fool some of the people all the time and all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.'

(I'm not sure if this is an accurate figure, but I read recently that there are about as many ex-JW's as there are current JW's. I'm not sure what to make of that - I just thought it was interesting.)

You have a right to speak. Don't imagine that it doesn't matter.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
13:50:19
Comments

I, too, was a victim in which my former husband and father of my five grown children molested my daughter. She has suffered so much from the hands of this animal, that her life won't ever be the same. He was also an elder in the Madera Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. The damage this man caused to our family will never be repaired! I sincerely pray with all my heart, that this site will help people see the "true" light and get out of that cult which destroyed my family back in 1981, after being in the organization for 15 years. Thank God I am finally free from this horrible Cult. Gloria Scroggins.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
13:52:16
Comments

Good point.

We don't, however, need their permission to speak.

As the Bible says, 'what is hidden shall be revealed'.

Or as Lincoln said, 'You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.'

Do not imagine that your voice does not matter.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
14:11:24
Comments

" As the Bible says, what is hidden shall be revealed. ""

Well, what I don't understand then, if the J.W.'s live so strictly to Bible rules, then there would be no use in hiding things like child-abuse, membership of the U.N. and god only knows what more there is to hide!!!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
15:31:44
Comments

Most religions conduct themselves with a common set of ethics. Jehovah's Witnesses don't. They believe that because they are favored by their god the rules of common religious ethics don't apply to them. All of their problems stem from that. It is that simple. It gives way to horrible ways of life and raising children. They like corporal punishment. With the very young in particular. They are obsessed with "respect for elders." They have no issues with beating that respect out of a child. They have no issues with saying that their god does not love them if they don't submit to "elders". They have no issues with using coercion to keep people in line with guilt, shame, or shunning to force their VERSION of reality on others. Jehovah's Witnesses will wait on their god to fix their lives and their mistakes an the things that they should take care of themselves. It is their own hell. It reasons to think that most of them would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. It is sad.

They have an archaic version of god, I.e. "Jehovah." That version of an angry philanthropist was fired as the common belief in a Monotheistic version of God a long time ago; And rightly so. We don't need that baloney any more. The only one's who do need that angry god are the one's who wish to have absolute control and power over people.

One thing is that NO Jehovah's Witness has ever or will ever get their wish. Jesus is not coming to kill all of us. (If he did I doubt he has ever seen an MX missile.) He came in the name of love. He left in the name of love. his return has already come. It is in you. It is all around you. It is not in a name, a religion, an organization, or a building. It is in you. (Right Now.) Christ was the first Christian. He was also the last.

Ask Yourself:

"Is my motive for acting a desire to merely to appear good for the sake of gain or pleasure? Am I saying one thing while intending to do another? If so, I am guilty of hypocrisy."

For those people who can't handle this... BITE ME!

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
16:40:21
Comments

"" For those people who can't handle this... BITE ME!""

Are you sure? Being bitten about 6.000.000 times??;-)))

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
16:44:16
Comments

Great comments. Lots of good critical thinking going on.

Read my bible this morning about the "she-ass and Balaam and the angel in the road.Balaam was headlong against Jehovah. Bill is the messenger as so many on this site are...she-asses being beaten for speaking the truth And not worshipping anyone but God or finding salvation in anyone but Jesus.

Another thought: 2 witnesses is the law, Jesus fulfilled the law and told Christians to be in fear of the government & their laws - obey them. The 10 comments are summed up with Love God and your neighbor. The "apostasy" is in N.Y. - not on this web site. The "society" is opposing Jehovah by using the 2 witnesses as LAW, disfellowshipping people who speak out against what is wrong, involving themselves in PR with the UN, deciding the fate of the Malawi brothers and calling anyone who exposes the truth apostates. Where is the healthy teaching??? Pray for God's Kingdom or the WTS Kingdom.

Saw a sister who has suffered, her children have suffered due to molestation in congregation - I posted about this before. I asked her if she saw Dateline - oh boy...she said she would never ever watch - they are apostates etc...I mentioned the UN she knew nothing about it. I asked her why the subscriptions were being hand delivered. AT first she said she didn't know and then she said it was so that a better "witness" would be given, people don't know what they are reading etc...This is a different answer than the price of postage. Then she said she would be glad to come and visit with me, bring two elders to discuss my concerns. I told her no.

All the self-doubt creeps in and so I read my bible. And I come to this site and read the posts. The posts were excellent today.

RE:JW Bashing - it is nothing compared to what a child and a parent go through. I compare the WTS to a Golden Calf, the children are being thrown in the fire as sacrifice. I have not heard one person bash Jehovah or Jesus - not one. I cannot worship, idolize the WTS because they are not perfect to say the least.

AGREE: One way "communication" is not communication - Official site has no e-mail and has only given the same "pat answer" to the problem and no solution except the same "pat answer." That is not communication - but orders from headquarters.

Almost forgot - sister above I spoke about told me that I had better be careful because the demons might harass me - because I was reading "apostate" web sites, or watching Dateline. I know she meant well. I also know I am dirt to her if I say one bad thing about the WTS, no matter how much I love Jehovah or want to walk like Jesus.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
16:46:10
Comments

To Faye B who commented about many persons' poor use of grammar and said that their grammar was "abominable".

The word is "abominable". :-) It means loathsome or horrible as in the "abominable snowman" (Yeti).

I cringe too seeing such ignoble usage of the English language, but rather than focusing on this minor failing (on the part of both sides I might add) why don't we all resolve to just listen to each other a little more open-mindedly.

--Eduardo

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
17:39:39
Comments

Howdy Folks!

this is from my notes on the District Convention...(not entirely off topic here)

The Drama dealing with the subject of Jeremiah departed from the recent format of "Contemporary setting-Ancient Setting/Lesson-Back to Contemporary Application" and instead was entirely set in the biblical setting with the follow-up talk serving as the crux of application.

The Drama was meant to encourage everyone to "Be Like Jeremiah" but it was like the tip of one's nose: so obvious that most did not even see the irony.

You see the Drama depicted how the older men (i.e. elders) of Jeremiah's city belittled him, how Jehovah's anointed and the official leadership (the king and anointed priests) persecuted him, but how he continued to endure in pursuing his belief in righteousness and the truth, despite incurring the wrath and hatred of the vast majority of the people of Judah.

But if we transpose this analogy to our day accurately then we see that those in the Organization who are most "like Jeremiah" would be those persons speaking out for reform in the Organization and who are willing to challenge the older men (i.e. elders) in pursuit of their godly conscience and training, despite how the King (read GB) and the anointed priests and elders may persecute him.

While not the first but among these "Jeremiah's", could we not count Brother Bowen as one whose passion and righteous desire on the issues he is championing to be like a "fire within his bosom that he could no longer hold within"?

I don't know if anyone in the entire convention center felt the way that I did or saw things like this but in my opinion it has to be one of the most ironic dramas ever presented when we consider the timing.

....one of the biggest applauses went to a statement from the platform: "....and no matter what they say in the media or the Internet, we know the truth!" (in reference to the present controversy).....

Finally to address a point that some have brought up in their comments here....

It was mentioned that the cessation of the subscription arrangement for magazines was because the goal has always been to start bible studies not merely place literature. Thus persons were encouraged to have "magazine routes" with the idea of turning these into return visits and eventually bible studies. (Nothing was mentioned that there is probably significant administrative and postage savings with the new arrangement).

take care.

-Eduardo

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
18:10:39
Comments

The magazine subscription should be paid for by the subscriber. To be pressured to have a bible study is not a good idea. Also, to subscribe, and give an address should be private information not to be given to anyone!!!! An invitation is always on the back of magazine to be contacted for a free home bible study. Many people may cancel subscription and miss an article that would "turn the light on" down the road for them due to a crisis or situation etc.. Like some feed back on this.

The Christian food was to be given freely, not on a condition of some string attached. I would personally rather pay than give my home address to anyone only to have them show up uninvited, at any time. This is an intrusion of my privacy, on my time and energy.

Subscriptions will go down. Just watch. Or nobody is home anyway, out working and the sisters will just leave them at the door, paid with their gasoline and time to deliver the "goods."

Not very well thought out from the perspective and view point of the subscriber or the sisters.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
18:32:19
Comments

I am glad to see this all come out! I too was a victim of wife abuse - and instead of disfellowshipping my husband (who was living with another woman for months - two witnesses didn't see him sleep with her!) - I filed for divorce and my ex was also abusive to our 7 year old daughter at the time - he would perform sex relations with his pioneer girlfriend in front of my young daughter - the elders just covered it and told him to keep a chaperone handy! they would take the word of my young daughter! Thank God the justice system had a strong Judge that filed abuse charges on him and ordered a protective order as well as a restraining order on him due to his threats and abuse. The Judge I remember made this comment to the elders that were there to testify that he was a good Brother! "Christian to me is another word for Criminal - and the man before me is a Criminal!" Needless to say, I was disfellowshipped for speaking out and filing for divorce - and I have never been happier! My heart and prayers goes out to all the victims and people hurt by the sick minded criminals that commit this horrible offenses! God will truly deal with each of them in due time...as God says "Our Children are gifts from him"

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
18:33:14
Comments

I am glad to see this all come out! I too was a victim of wife abuse - and instead of disfellowshipping my husband (who was living with another woman for months - two witnesses didn't see him sleep with her!) - I filed for divorce and my ex was also abusive to our 7 year old daughter at the time - he would perform sex relations with his pioneer girlfriend in front of my young daughter - the elders just covered it and told him to keep a chaperone handy! they would not take the word of my young daughter! Thank God the justice system had a strong Judge that filed abuse charges on him and ordered a protective order as well as a restraining order on him due to his threats and abuse. The Judge I remember made this comment to the elders that were there to testify that he was a good Brother! "Christian to me is another word for Criminal - and the man before me is a Criminal!" Needless to say, I was disfellowshipped for speaking out and filing for divorce - and I have never been happier! My heart and prayers goes out to all the victims and people hurt by the sick minded criminals that commit this horrible offenses! God will truly deal with each of them in due time...as God says "Our Children are gifts from him"

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
18:40:11
Comments

I visit the web page almost every day. I am waiting for the notice to appear before the elders. I know that soon they will be told to readjust my thinking. I will not back down from my letter to the WTS. I will not be silent anymore. I refuse to share in the sins of the false shepherds. It will be hard on my family, but no harder than it was years ago when I was raked over the coals by the elder body. I still consider myself a faithful servant of Jehovah. No one will ever take that from me. I do not need the approval of the WTS. I need the approval of the almighty creator of the universe. I feel that I have been left out of the loop. What is this about the WTS and the U.N.? And what is the story about what happened in Malawi? I know what the official story was. What is the unofficial story? Somebody e-mail me the answer please. lmatheny@emtecae.com or lj_sunshine@yahoo.com

LJM

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
19:31:29
Comments

I have been keeping tabs each day on the Guest Book and have given my thoughts many times. I do have a couple of questions (we have not attended since 1995,the elders thought we didn't attend enough. Didn't seem to matter my husband was in a horrible car accident had ruptured two disks and herniated three. Why couldn't he sit through meeting LOL IDIOTS..).well my questions are 1.What's the UN connection? I thought it was the evil that started in 1914? LOL 2.What information does anyone have on the Cabool Missouri and Kansas City congregations? Please e-mail me at SheilaLMadonia@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
19:53:00
Comments

test

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
20:52:16
Comments

I knew this was happening since I went to www.freeminds.org. I am very glad that you have this site.

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
21:15:28
Comments

We should consider organizing our letters or E-mails to authorities. This site is a nice fireside chat for us not suing the WT or putting a sicko where he belongs...(Jail) United it seems we could be a powerful force for change. I recommend sending one of the silentlambs "get the word out" ideas to every church body in whatever town you are in. Send one to every local school board and Department of Social Service in your State. Heck in your town. Put one on every pin up board in every public building you see. We need to bombard news agencies with letters. We need to unite if we want to make any difference at all. We need to organize letters to State Governor's to make reporting mandatory. Otherwise really...Besides bitching....What are we doing? It is so nice to know I am not alone in my experience with the JW's...It is so nice to know that I was not going crazy. They were trying to drive me crazy. Thank you for this site for that. But I mean is this as good as it is going to get? Let's picket Bethel.... Make the news happen.... Lets organize.... Or what are we doing?

Remote User:
Date:
11 Jun 2002
Time:
22:15:30
Comments

In case anyone is interested in recovery resources, I can provide a couple. The best book for male sexual abuse/incest victims to read is "Victims No Longer" by Mike Lew. What I liked about it was Dr. Lew asked survivors how they traveled their road to recovery. What worked and why. He also wrote another book entitled, "Leaping Upon the Mountains". Personally I preferred "Victims No Longer" but either book is extremely helpful.

However, the single best resource for any victim of abuse and/or incest is from Dr. Renee Fredrickson. She has a great many lectures that she has recorded on to cassette tape. They are outstanding! I have been to some her seminars when she has come to Dallas and she is a kind and knowledgable therapist. Although it's been a few years since I've ordered any of her tapes, I believe anyone still can. Her address is Fredrickson & Associates, 821 Raymond Avenue, Suite 300, St. Paul, MN 55114. I don't believe she has a website, although I haven't really looked.

Peace

Chris Scott

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
00:58:08
Comments

Re: Malawi - read "Crisis of Conscience" by Raymond Franz. Brother Franz participated in the "governing body" meetings that decided the fate of these brothers and sisters and children. This is a tragedy and an outrage, the story to me is neck in neck with the lack of moral judgement used by the "governing body" with the pedophiles.

I too check the postings everyday, twice a day. Something has shifted. The letters are much much more thought provoking- I didn't mind the yelling either what a harmless way to express sincere righteous rage. But seems like many witnesses,& ex-witnesses are wanting to be sure they are worshipping Jehovah and not the WTS and are supporting silentlambs with intelligence and compassion and true Christian love. And just plain common sense and decency.

By the way, you can be disfellowshipped for reading works by Raymond Franz. There is nothing apostate in the book. Brother Franz - was the one who wrote much of the 2 green books, Insight Books. In his research at BETHEL, he began to find many discrepancies between WTS doctrine and the true meaning of Christianity.

His crisis of conscience didn't really begin until he became a "member" of the governing body and had to participated in decisions that he couldn't back with christian scripture or christian conscience. His book does not slander, blame or bash. It is written with sorrow and compassion grief and with shame as well as intelligence.

I have a question: what does LOL mean??? I know what SOL means. Tell me please.!

About babies, parenting, protecting: I live in a rural area. Yesterday I saw three Mother Turkeys herding their 23 + chicks, a mother deer and her new fawn and the Mother Skunk brought her 3 babies to dine on the cat's food last night. It is the most natural thing in the world to care for our children, defend them, protect them from harm - there is a scripture in Proverbs about a bear and her cubs. How can anyone possibly believe that Jehovah ,our loving creator would punish you for protecting your children and when failing to do so would punish you and your child?

The lack of natural affection the WTS and Elders, and congregational members have shown is not a fruit of the spirit. I can accurately say this.

Love to all. Amen.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
00:59:58
Comments

"" I have a question: what does LOL mean"

LOL=Laughing Out Loud ROFL=Rolling On the Floor Laughing

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
01:45:36
Comments

Can somebody update me on the Malawi case?? evdflier@yahoo.com Thanx!!

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
02:03:22
Comments

I think most elders are just following what WTS's order. Remember the time ( about 10 years ago ) when the WTS was strongly opposing college education? Someone told me today that they probably were afraid of the members thinking and researching too much. Maybe. This old tactic - ignore whatever you hear against the WTS - might worked in 60s and 70s. But they should know better.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
03:30:59
Comments

If it's true what is written on this page, and if it is true what the people of JW believe, I think some of them will spend the rest of the eternity in a bloody hell.

Sad, sad stories. My sympathy for the victims!!!!!

T.A./Berlin

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
03:37:08
Comments

Hi! It's great work, that you are doing! So much courage. Helping children is more important than anything else. It's a shame for Jehovah's Witnesses, that'S going on there. I know Jehovah's Witnesses from two countries: Russia (there I used to live) and Germany (there I am living now). In both countries there are the same problems as in USA. Jehovah's Witnesses needs a reform. Urgently...

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
03:46:41
Comments

Hey everybody,

in fact I read a news article about this site, which seemed to be researched well and founded on facts. After reading most of your guest book entries and some of the "stories", I have to admit, that IMO most of you guys act like being in a daily talk show on some American TV network.

I don't want to play down with child molesting - which is really one of the worst things in the world - but some comments seem to be either fake or arisen from a psycho's mind.

If molested, head on to the next police station and report it and don't post it in guestbooks ...

Any comments appreciated.

Volvic

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
04:09:46
Comments

One nice thing about the 'pedophile paradise'.

At least all the pedophiles will be in one place and the world will be safer for the rest of us.

I know this sounds cruel, but how else can one react rationally to the absurd response of the WT at this time?

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
04:26:41
Comments

Watch out, Jehovah's witnesses: "Watch out for false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are voracious wolves. You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered2 from thorns or figs from thistles, are they? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will recognize them by their fruit." (Matthew 7:15-20)

Markus, Germany

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:02:13
Comments

One good thing about the 'pedophile paradise'.

At least the pedophiles will be in one place and the world will be safer for the rest of us.

I know this sounds cruel but how else can one react rationally to the current WT response?

Maybe this will dawn on the dubs and they'll somehow find it within themselves to question or doubt their brainwashing leaders.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:38:35
Comments

The Constitution comment - very good! Thanks for the reminder! (I know, Duh Duh Duh, but I hadn't thought about it!)

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:39:51
Comments

bjc's scriptures in Ezekiel: Very Good Thinking, and it makes sense, too!

Christendom - Israel. WTS - Judah.

End result the same.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:43:16
Comments

Someone wrote: "Doesn't it make you wonder if any of the policy-makers are pedophiles?"

That was my very first thought when I first began hearing about all of this...

No offense to any truly upright males out there, but men are basically nothing but "horny dogs" (pardon my language), but it's true. It's true. It's a biological fact, horny is all they think about, no matter what/where they are.

The difference in worldly guys and JW guys: Worldly guys outwardly show it (their unrelenting "horniness"). JW guys try to "hide" it.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:45:09
Comments

Re: Eduardo's comments about mag subs:

How likely is it JWs will deliver mags to DF persons, even those of us who sincerely want them?

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:52:04
Comments

Date: 11 Jun 2002; Time: 18:10:39; WROTE:

The magazine subscription should be paid for by the subscriber. To be pressured to have a bible study is not a good idea. Also, to subscribe, and give an address should be private information not to be given to anyone!!!! ...Many people may cancel subscription and miss an article that would "turn the light on" down the road for them due to a crisis or situation etc.. Like some feed back on this. -- The Christian food was to be given freely, not on a condition of some string attached. I would personally rather pay than give my home address to anyone only to have them show up uninvited, at any time. This is an intrusion of my privacy, on my time and energy. -- Subscriptions will go down. Just watch. Or nobody is home anyway, out working and the sisters will just leave them at the door, paid with their gasoline and time to deliver the "goods." -- Not very well thought out from the perspective and view point of the subscriber or the sisters. --- You asked for feedback. I AGREE 100% with EVERYTHING YOU SAID re: privacy, address, visitors (w/mags) just showing up uninvited, no strings attached, etc. --- Being DF AND DISABLED, I don't see me ever getting back to mtgs. at all, much less just stopping by to pick up a mag. ---- And, yes, I still believe and love JAH, and I've read everything under the sun on the web about all the "dirt" of the WTS, so I am not "blind". --- For interesting info about the mags, see <http://www.freeminds.org/> Somewhere on that site about mag production and cost, etc. Even after reading that, I'd still like to receive the mags.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
05:57:02
Comments

from Germany:

Protect our children; some wounds will never heal. FIGHT ON!!!

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
06:18:14
Comments

ich finds echt gut, dass sich jemand traut so eine aktion zu starten. viel erfolg!

simon - Germany

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
06:37:03
Comments

Let me tell you

T

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
06:45:39
Comments

Let me tell you

TO The ones that abused someone out there and you are reading this or to someone who is protecting an abuser listen to me. I am speaking from experience I am now 38 and was abused for 9 yrs from 5-14. IT DAMAGES PEOPLE more then you will ever know. I am now 38 never married never dated afraid of men because of what I lived through as a child.I see sex the same way I did when I was a child as dirty gross and painful and have vowed as a child never ever to allow another pain to touch me again and sad to say I have kept that vow. All because of what my dad did to me by raping me over and over. I have gone to 20 yrs of counseling and still have not healed it lives with the person for the rest of their lives. Just for one time I wish someone who abuses and their helpers would see what this does to someone. What is normal? I was told I never experienced real love and sex? Why would i wanna after being shown what I was shown? I was the opposite of some people I withdrew into a shell and wouldn't allow humans new me or allow them to even hug me now I still cant allow a man to hold me nor touch me all because of my dad and his abuse. Pray for me please sometimes I hurt so bad inside because of all the nightmares and pain that I wish it would stop thanks for being here for us and loving us and understanding where we are at in some small way And yes I have a lot of anger in me and yes I have spoken that out here on this board and I will continue to do that till no more children are abused Penny

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
06:46:34
Comments

Let me tell you

TO The ones that abused someone out there and you are reading this or to someone who is protecting an abuser listen to me. I am speaking from experience I am now 38 and was abused for 9 yrs from 5-14. IT DAMAGES PEOPLE more then you will ever know. I am now 38 never married never dated afraid of men because of what I lived through as a child.I see sex the same way I did when I was a child as dirty gross and painful and have vowed as a child never ever to allow another man touch me again and sad to say I have kept that vow. All because of what my dad did to me by raping me over and over. I have gone to 20 yrs of counseling and still have not healed it lives with the person for the rest of their lives. Just for one time I wish someone who abuses and their helpers would see what this does to someone. What is normal? I was told I never experienced real love and sex? Why would i wanna after being shown what I was shown? I was the opposite of some people I withdrew into a shell and wouldn't allow humans new me or allow them to even hug me now I still cant allow a man to hold me nor touch me all because of my dad and his abuse. Pray for me please sometimes I hurt so bad inside because of all the nightmares and pain that I wish it would stop thanks for being here for us and loving us and understanding where we are at in some small way And yes I have a lot of anger in me and yes I have spoken that out here on this board and I will continue to do that till no more children are abused Penny

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
08:32:07
Comments

I think with you

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
09:40:57
Comments

Good morning I just came into this site looking for something else, really this is so good that this have come about. I am so sad and happy for all that has a story to tell because you all need to talk about this . that mean person well have to face Jehovah God in do time so please try moving on with your life and don't ever for get that Jehovah God know it all MS.Gee.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
10:08:00
Comments

Is there anyone in the East Mountains of Albuquerque, or in New Mexico out there? I am tired of surviving without connections to other people, when I cried out to save my sisters everyone abandoned me, my mother, and my sisters. A "packet" of information follows my mother from congregation to congregation. They said she 'taught' it to us, (I was 19 at the time). I have children now, we homeschool and are involved in 4H, but I still only get to know anyone as an 'acquaintance' not as a real friend...... Anyway maybe I should stop blubbering! sandimylife@hotmail.com C

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
10:49:02
Comments

PENNY: So glad to see you post again. I LOVE YOU! I'd been wanting to write you a note before now to say, I FEEL YOUR PAIN (re: your prior posts). And your recent 6/12 post, I understand it also. Please take care. Don't feel too bad, I'm not married either (old maid just about!) Had a few LTR's, and was proposed to 3 times, but they all got cold feet. I would give myself away too freely (desperate to be loved). NEVER AGAIN. I'm with you. FINALLY, I basically feel free of the desire to have "a man," and I thank Jah every day for that! They are basically selfish pigs anyway. Hold on! If therapy doesn't help, maybe menopause will. It's working for me (but I could do w/o the sweats!) - -Hug from afar. Sign Me: I Can Relate.

Remote User:
Date:
12 Jun 2002
Time:
12:31:52
Comments

I went to the Dist. Convention last weekend. After a lot of thoughts and tears, I was trying and beginning to understand the WTS's viewpoint even though I didn't and couldn't agree until I heard the Dis. overseer saying, "Don't listen to any negative sayings, and don't talk to anyone about it. If it bothers your conscience, there is something wrong with your conscience." Then I knew...this is totally wrong!!!!!

Also strange that he mentioned about conscience....since I told a ex-elder about my conscience that has been bothering me all this time regarding inviting anyone to this WT organization. I don't think they ( the WTS ) realize the scale of this problem. I guess it's not as big as Catholic's since it's still quiet. Bill Bowen told me that there is going to be a case against the WTS in every 6 months. Anyone knows when the first civil suit is going to be settled or finalized? I'm curious how much money this organization is going to lose in each case.

Remote User:
Date:
13 Jun 2002
Time:
00:22:21
Comments

child molesters rule! I was molested and look at me now i am now the best roach killer in the city. I wish more kids were being molested which is why I'm training to be a priest. being a roach killer was fun but I've got children to touch, babies to rape,handicapped to laugh at. so see yas.

Remote User:
Date:
13 Jun 2002
Time:
00:25:53
Comments

does anybody know where I can get molested? I wanna see how it feels to get my bunghole plugged. I think it mite be fun. -danny 14

Remote User:
Date:
13 Jun 2002
Time:
00:46:40
Comments

HEY TO ALL OF YOU MOTHERFUNKERS OUT THERE. DON'T HATE AND DON'T DISCRIMINATE. I WAS BORN LOVING CHILDREN. I COULDN'T HELP IT SO IF YOU MUST KNOW I HAVE HAD SEX WITH A 14 YEAR OLD BOY. WE STILL ARE IN LOVE.ITS GOING GREAT, BUT I HAVE TO LEAVE HIM. HE'S GETTING OLDER. HE'S GONNA BE 15 SOON. HI CHRIS. MY DADDY WONT EXCEPT ME FOR WHO I AM.NO ONE ELSE WILL GO OUT WITH ME.ITS TOUGH BEING A BORN AND RAISED MOLESTER. SO WHAT'S A GUY TO DO. ILL TELL YOU WHAT. FIND MORE CHILDREN. SO BACK OFF YOU DUMB FUNKIN JEHOVAH'S WEAKNESS.AND ALL YOU CHRISTIANS TOO.WATCH YOUR CHILDREN CAUSE HERE I COME. -HARORACER4LIFE@AOL.COM -JAMESCKY1@EARTHLINK.COM P.S. WERE NAT ALL GAY

Remote User:
Date:
13 Jun 2002
Time:
00:52:30
Comments

HEY PENNY ILL FUCK YAH. -JIMMY21 JACKSONVILLE MI

Remote User:
Date:
13 Jun 2002
Time:
13:50:58
Comments

Here is some comic relieve. Those JW's at jwzone.org are just soo darn funny. Sample:

What are some funny or ironic things you've experienced in service?

Here are two that will get us started!!

I recently got a new territory and was checking for houses that have requested we not call on them. Found one in a section where the lots are huge and a lot of people have animals. The one house we weren't supposed to call at had an animal too - A GOAT!!! How ironic is that!!!

We've all been offering the Watchtower on Christmas Customs are they Christian. Well - can anyone say that 10 times quickly!!! I didn't think so! I was at the door and said "Christian customs - are they Christmas!!!" Just way to much of a tongue twister! !!!

OK - your turn to share!! Anyone..... Anyone......

Enjoy the whole thread: http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=d7965403f4a437b2aef55618030c56db&threadid=2249&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
16:44:12
Comments

What the heck is happening to all the posts?

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
17:05:20
Comments

I am from Denver Colorado. I am 20 years old. I watched the story on Dateline. I'm not sure how much is true, but I was very upset. In fact I've been upset since that night. Mostly because I could relate. I was molested by two young brothers(Larry Rietz & Tim Rietz, now going by the name of Eric Chisolm) for a total of three years. I was only 3 years old. I didn't get the courage to say anything until I was 6. When I did my parents were very supportive. We of course went to our elders. We were warned of "slander" and not to report it. We did. I remember like it was yesterday sitting, being video taped while I, at six years of age explain to the police man what was done to me. The boys were arrested for one night. But they were both minors. They were never baptized servants at the time. Our family moved away for ten years. When we moved back here, we got news that one brother was now married, and serving as a pioneer in bethel. Everywhere that I went when I introduced myself, everyone knew me, because these two brothers were my uncles. They were well-known pioneers, well liked. I finally started telling people what they were when they had recognition in my name. We wrote the society and sent the police reports. He was sent home from Bethel. His father begin to start problems ,saying our family was "slandering" them. We tried to contact his wife, same response. A year later two girls came forward about the same brothers. Not to mention we see him around all the time. Shortly after that we finally got through to his wife. She allowed us to send her police documents of her husband. Then her younger sister came forward. She was devastated. She left this man, but was told she is doing so unscripturally. I have taken this matter to my new congregation, right after the dateline show. They have been very supportive, and because of the amount of girls to come forward, they have to act. The original congregation we were in I'm hearing is now being removed and all of the elders as well. (just a rumor?)When I talk to all the young sisters that were my friends at that age, they all confess it happened to them as well, by the same men! That is now over 8 girls! After 14 years I'm wondering is it worth it? Will our statue of limitations prevent us from further justice? Will these man think of us as much as we are forced each day to think of him and how much he hurt us? Will these men continue hiding and denying. I have fought for the past 14 years with problems stemming from the abuse. I have been in years of therapy trying to understand that "SEX" is a good thing. That when I am married in April that when my husband wants to have sex with me, I don't have to feel like it's dirty, and I'm doing something wrong. They only thought I have to sustain me and help me cope is that they CAN NOT hide from GOD! No matter how much imperfect elders may react, or how much we may hurt, in the end it will all be 'in justice'. May God be with me, and all who have been through this. May he offer you the strength and will to continue fighting for you and that of your offspring. I still continue to love Jehovah with all my heart. But know this; I will NEVER 'keep quiet' nor let anyone be allowed to go on serving Jehovah and hurting his people, not if I can help it, and no matter what threat is put on me. If you would like to contact me: kookie106@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
17:05:41
Comments

I am from Denver Colorado. I am 20 years old. I watched the story on Dateline. I'm not sure how much is true, but I was very upset. In fact I've been upset since that night. Mostly because I could relate. I was molested by two young brothers(Larry Rietz & Tim Rietz, now going by the name of Eric Chisolm) for a total of three years. I was only 3 years old. I didn't get the courage to say anything until I was 6. When I did my parents were very supportive. We of course went to our elders. We were warned of "slander" and not to report it. We did. I remember like it was yesterday sitting, being video taped while I, at six years of age explain to the police man what was done to me. The boys were arrested for one night. But they were both minors. They were never baptized servants at the time. Our family moved away for ten years. When we moved back here, we got news that one brother was now married, and serving as a pioneer in Bethel. Everywhere that I went when I introduced myself, everyone knew me, because these two brothers were my uncles. They were well-known pioneers, well liked. I finally started telling people what they were when they had recognition in my name. We wrote the society and sent the police reports. He was sent home from Bethel. His father begin to start problems ,saying our family was "slandering" them. We tried to contact his wife, same response. A year later two girls came forward about the same brothers. Not to mention we see him around all the time. Shortly after that we finally got through to his wife. She allowed us to send her police documents of her husband. Then her younger sister came forward. She was devastated. She left this man, but was told she is doing so unscripturally. I have taken this matter to my new congregation, right after the dateline show. They have been very supportive, and because of the amount of girls to come forward, they have to act. The original congregation we were in I'm hearing is now being removed and all of the elders as well. (just a rumor?)When I talk to all the young sisters that were my friends at that age, they all confess it happened to them as well, by the same men! That is now over 8 girls! After 14 years I'm wondering is it worth it? Will our statue of limitations prevent us from further justice? Will these man think of us as much as we are forced each day to think of him and how much he hurt us? Will these men continue hiding and denying. I have fought for the past 14 years with problems stemming from the abuse. I have been in years of therapy trying to understand that "SEX" is a good thing. That when I am married in April that when my husband wants to have sex with me, I don't have to feel like it's dirty, and I'm doing something wrong. They only thought I have to sustain me and help me cope is that they CAN NOT hide from GOD! No matter how much imperfect elders may react, or how much we may hurt, in the end it will all be 'in justice'. May God be with me, and all who have been through this. May he offer you the strength and will to continue fighting for you and that of your offspring. I still continue to love Jehovah with all my heart. But know this; I will NEVER 'keep quiet' nor let anyone be allowed to go on serving Jehovah and hurting his people, not if I can help it, and no matter what threat is put on me. If you would like to contact me: kookie106@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
17:56:13
Comments

HEY JIMMY IF U WERE THE LAST GUY ON THIS EARTH I WOULDN'T LET U TOUCH ME AND NO I AM NOT GAY I HATE SEX PERIOD AND U CAN THANK MY DAD FOR THAT HAVE A GOOD DAY BYE PENNY

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
17:58:26
Comments

< STRONG><U><I>HTML-TEST</STRONG></U></I>

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
18:01:57
Comments

To the JW who wrote to Bill Bowen on June 18: The people who came to you with a charge of child molestation while you were an elder were very fortunate. I could send you hundreds of emails from hundreds of families and/or victims who went to their elders (including ME) and were systematically ignored and warned, no, THREATENED, not to speak of the incident for fear they may face charges of slander or gossip. Indeed, many of the victims of this epidemic HAVE been excommunicated for speaking out against their abuser in spite of their elders' threats, and also for recognizing that the elders way of (not) handling this is NOT in accordance with Jehovah's wishes. In my congregation, several little girls came to the elders with reports of the SAME person molesting them, and they told them the same thing they told me: "You misunderstood what happened. It's important that you not speak to others of this because without anyone who can verify that this happened, you could face charges of slander or gossip." Don't pretend that you are comparing apples to apples when you use the analogy of someone making a false accusation out of spite or anger as opposed to genuine victims who sought out spiritual help from those who were supposed to be keeping "Jehovah's organization" free from immoral, criminal, disgusting acts like those committed by the very people that they are protecting. And don't be blind - they ARE protecting them. Intentionally. I KNOW they are protecting pedophiles because they are not only telling the victims that they can't punish the abuser because there weren't any eyewitnesses, they are telling these victims that it DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN. They are lying! Is there any room in the WTS's interpretations of the scriptures for lying? To a victim? To a 12 year old girl who has just been molested? As regards your comment that anyone can accuse anyone of child molestation and therefore cast doubt upon the accused, whether guilty or innocent, I don't think anyone is saying that the first time someone is accused they should be marked with a scarlet letter for the whole world to see, despite what evidence indicates. But even the society's literature says that two or more witnesses, even if the incidents are on separate occasions and nobody besides the victims saw what happened, could be considered testimony enough to find someone guilty of an accusation. But shouldn't elders, who are supposedly "anointed by God's Holy Spirit" be able to determine through prayer what action should be taken against someone accused? If not, what is the purpose of God's anointing people with His holy spirit? If not to help guide and protect the flock, then what? Not to mention the fact that the Bible instructs us to obey Caesar's laws unless they conflict with God's. Regardless of whether or not YOU or any elders THINK that brother who may or may not be molesting children doesn't need his reputation sullied, the elders have an obligation to the state, and more importantly, to God to report this POSSIBLE or SUSPECTED abuse. I have seen with my own eyes elders, presiding overseers, circuit overseers, Bethelites, etc. have knowledge of this person molesting children and what have they done? Not only have they taken great pains to make sure that this person is not prosecuted or even reported for his crimes, they have made sure by lying to and threatening victims that nobody knows about what's going on. My advice to you, Brother, is to open your heart and pray to your creator to lead you to the truth. The truth about this issue and the truth in general. If you are sure of what you're involved in, where is the harm in that? As to your comment"Are Jehovah's witnesses bad immoral and corrupt people? As I see it we try to live by Bible standards and admittedly do not do it perfectly, but Jehovah doesn't expect us to be perfect." As I see it, you CLAIM to live by Bible standards. And you can hide behind the sin we've all inherited from Adam, but Jehovah WILL hold us accountable for what we do that we KNOW is wrong. AND FOR PROTECTING THOSE THAT DO. jhkoval@earthlink.net

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
18:14:44
Comments

Posts for 14,15, 16, 17 and 18th are missing!

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
18:44:31
Comments

The ugly posts have appeared again...and almost everything else in between has disappeared. Webmaster has been notified. It is amazing what people will do to hide the truth isn't it? It is against the law to come into a web site and mess with it. So if it is your first time here please understand this is not a true picture of the site. We have had days of posts - fabulous posts- erased by someone. Posts with tons of information to get the word out and some very insightful comments. Too bad.

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
19:13:21
Comments

To all witnesses: I never thought I was in a right wing group, I still don't believe that I am. However, some of the statements are true. I too have had some questions about being a Jehovah's Witness. I was born into the situation and known no other. I have never known any other religion and my parents kept me very isolated from others who were considered worldly (pagans). I believe that we do good, but the attitude by most people is apathy so it has been a struggle for us. It is true most in our group believe everything that is written in our Watchtower Magazine, but that goes for any Religion who publishes anything. I have seen the wrongs; however, this is by no means an expose`of my congregation nor of the others I know of personally. I remember the 1975 period when my parents didn't believe that the world was going to end and my fathers disfellowshipping. I also remember the 1980-83 shake up of our Society which is still very vivid in my mind. Yet my mom wanted to return to our kingdom hall anyway because all her family are members of the Jehovah's Witnesses'; nevertheless, it took years for her to get excepted back into our religion, and my father, he rather not have anything to do with the religion or any other religion as far as he is concerned. I will admit that I am a baptized member of the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and I will tell my experience and the truth of what I seen. This is in no way meant to hurt all those I love by writing this response . There are couple of incidents I will mention but I will keep the names hidden so as too refrain from harming the innocent. Here is one more that has to be mentioned. Awhile back in West Sacramento, there is a so called Brother of the faith who committed statutory rape. The mother was very upset and intended phone the police but again she was told to show forgiveness and love. I was told they also gave the same scripture about Christians suing one another. She threatened to do it any way's but was told not too. She said to all of us that she was told by the Elders that if she did, she would be rebelling against gods authority. The law was broken we said, but she said if she did phone the police she would get in trouble. These examples are true to the best of knowledge and it grieves me very much. Now I see why Brother Franz said in his book " It is Christ we should focus on, not some human organization, that our attention and interest should focus, for carefully concealed in him are all are treasures". He may be disfellowshipped but he has made an impact on all Jehovah's Witnesses. His book has passed through many of our hands but he is correct in saying that " drastic actions taken toward those person accused of apostasy were unjustified and repugnant". I can not reject my faith and do say that the previous letter was nothing more than bashing my religion. But I know of those who knew Brother Franz and they discussed all those issues I have just written about. I have heard the he is a very kind and a loving man who does love god. We all need martyrs for what is right and if Ray Franz is right he will be remembered for ever like the others in our past who loved truth. My dad wants nothing to do with my religion and said he doesn't really care to return. As I briefly mentioned before he was disfellowshipped in 1976 when I was very little. He worked over 40 hours a week and didn't have time to go door to door. I remember the Elders of our old hall talking to him constantly about the need for field service. My dad said he would lose his job or his house if he did what they suggested. It got to the point where he grit his teeth every time they showed up. He told my mom that they suggested he quit his job and spend more time going door to door preaching. He was dumfounded at their comments and it was backed up with the reasoning that the world would end soon. I remember so many who lost there jobs because of this kind of thinking. Many were kicked out for apostasy for not obeying these men. My dad says now, where are these fools who told me to quit, the world didn't end in 1976, only there control over him did. He was disfellowshipped in 1976 for not being reasonable and not being humble. I heard the way they spoke to my dad and it was like a quiet serpent with soft words and a superior attitude, like they knew gods thoughts. My mom cried for days because she knew they had already intended to remove my dad. He stood up for his rights and appealed their decision. To no avail it was announced a week before my birthday that he was disfellowshipped. Our world changed at that moment for us. My dad is very successful in his job and now has more free time than ever and ready to retire. He says if he would have done what they said we would have all suffered greatly. He is humored when he sees or hears of these men when we are at our assembly because they didn't get their end of the world and are broke still working at low paying jobs without the possibility retiring. I have heard that out of the five who prosecuted him only one remains in authority. From the five, one was disfellowshipped for what ever reasons, one gave up the religion entirely, one died, and the last stepped down from his position. Hearing this gave my dad some release of the thoughts that he was bad in some way for standing up for himself. My mom is a different story but it is the same ending . My mom has been a member since her birth also. She cannot remember any other association or any religion in her family. My family members are all baptized and have been associated with this organization for years. My mom used to be a pioneer ( full time Preaching) for years. She went to New York and worked for awhile there and traveled around the US for a couple of years as a pioneer. I remember her telling us how she was so excited to do all this and who she knew . Names and people she talked too seemed endless and many were very high up in our organization. In 1980 when the shake up began in our organization, my mom cried to hear that some of her friends were removed. Once again she was devastated. Some of those people helped her through her crisis and helped her remained active despite my dads feelings. She continued without a word preaching and telling everyone about our harmony and love for one another. A year had past and she said to a few that it was awful what had happened and how can she say we have harmony when we didn't. I remember more clearly now what mom my went through now that I'm older. I heard the ugly rumors about my moms friends and so did my mom. She defended herself and her friends only to be put in a head hunt situation. I know for a fact she encouraged her friends over the phone to stay faithful and not to do bad. She was lectured week after week that her faith in our organization was weak and possibly apostate. She was crushed to hear this. I remember the toll it took on her health then. She had done nothing wrong in her conscience or her heart she said. My mom was removed in 1983. Our family shunned us, even me. Years passed and my mom was reinstated in 1992. She was able to see her family and my grandma. MY grandfather died a year before and we were not invited because both my parents were disfellowshipped. I to got baptized in 1992 and it made my mom happy. My reasons are mine on why I did get baptized;however, I know this, I will be more cautious and not fall prey to wild thinking or throw my life away preaching. I seen the best of both worlds and I will be like my dad, I also will have the devotion like my mother to those I love and care about. It scares me personally to see people suffer needlessly like that girl on the Dateline interview. It shakes me up on how disgusting it is to cover up legal matters and let others be abused; therefore, I believe that my god Jehovah will destroy these people, and I do believe in him without question. I will not listen to any mans foolishness on what they believe god thinks or what they think he wants. Our hearts he will search out, not bible zealots who feel they are better than anyone else. I have my regrets for not doing what I had to do, only to subject myself to ignorant men. I promise not ever to do to my children what was done to me in my past. I will not deprive them the need to release nor to communicate or to express themselves as I was hindered. I think my life could have been much more than it is now. I have a weak High school education because at that time when I was in high school the J.W. organization did discourage any extra curricular activity and college prep courses. I whole heartedly believe that this effected my life style today and to regretfully say I have no skills. My children will play baseball, do Karate, and Play with the neighbor kids. All these things are part of growing up and to hinder them is evil. I was told I couldn't do these things when I was young and I told my mom how I hated not doing anything productive at school in my early days. Her reply was that she was sorry for me not going to college and if she had to do all of over again, she would have let me expand my horizons. She said those were the times then and all higher education was discouraged, if she would have known what she knows now, it wouldn't have happened. I could have been somebody great or better equipped to do good by now. I struggle to survive while those younger than me have the upper management jobs and I'm stuck with some low wage, taking orders from some pee-on. The impact of the Elders carries much weight but the need for the many is control or a sense of purpose. We have good times along with the bad, but a limit should be on how much control over ones mind should be. Our conscience is a gift from god and should not be exploited. I think religion is good in some ways and to have it removed would crush hope. Hope keeps mankind from destroying one another. If the world is to end, I know in my heart I will live to see my dream of being in a paradise. False prophecy I ignore, but love and kindness keeps me going. I believe that God exist and mankind needs teachings that exert love. Avoid those men in cheap suit's with their ideas of God. It is god who we will answer too not to some organization. Keep on searching for the real truth not be polluted in false doctrine and the corrupt ideas of men. For Jehovah is to be sought out not hidden in a building in New York.....Theodore J.

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
19:37:59
Comments

I hope that the information on past postings will be recovered. If not to everyone; Repost! Don't let the bastards win! We were starting to come together and make our letters and Emails count. Target the media together. Put your ad in your local newspaper classifieds. Make a difference! Save a child the this pain, let them know that you care. Let a battered wife know that she is not alone.

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
19:52:51
Comments

“ True love and peace within the Organization; let's remain under God's rule with faith.” These words where spoken at the last district assembly of Jehovah's Witness in July of 1999. Do they speak the truth or with fork tongues? Beware all members of the Organization; the time I warned you about have begun; they are out to find you. With a smiles and cheer they come into your home to sneer. They sit in your home and listen to your every word and test every comment to see if your worthy of their man mad blessings and give their evaluation of what they feel how spiritual you are not knowing only God himself can only see these things. Can they really see the love within a person or is of their own perspective they what should be in their own eyes. Their Doomsday Prophets has spoken again. In so many words they have declared that the year 2000 will be the coming of Christ; however, they are a little smarter than before when they prophesied in 1975 and 1984 that the end would come. So by not putting anything in print they have plausible deniability if it doesn't come as expected. What is so humorous is that many Brothers and Sisters during one of our afternoon breaks at the assembly gave a long and detail synopsis of how the world is coming to an end in the year 2000 and how his family is preparing for it. I laughed heartily while listening to one of our member's go on and on how they are so faithful and how Jehovah will save them in the time of need. Can anyone be haughtier than this; does this sound like the Pharisees? The real question to ask is will the organization stop or discourage such talk? A well-known and reputable speaker within the Society declared this at our convention and so I thought this needed to be said and I quote, “ The time has come when those inside our organization will cool off and betray our brotherhood, … the time is near and the weeding out has begun. The end of the times as declared by the apostles and Jesus is now!” If these words are true than 98% of the world's population is dead with no hope of salvation through Christ, so all peoples of the world must conform to the ideas of the Jehovah's Witness' that salvation must come through their organization. There is NO scripture in the Bible that declared salvation through an organization, it says though it's through Christ alone. Are they to makes us believe they alone have this power? Why would a God of love and peace destroy the innocent along with the evil? The Jehovah's Witness' proclaim they have covered the world with their worldwide teaching and that those who didn't listen will be destroyed, the Mormons are declaring the same message, which is correct? Also are this showing true love and a good example to others around them who are looking for the rule truth about God and his Son? Another thing is that they have an excuse for every crime they commit and act of abhorred brutality they do, the cover ups would reach the sky but will they admit it; but no, it is all good because Jehovah god will only forgive them and no one else. Beware all; they have started their witch-hunt to look for apostates within their own organization. Its looks like they are ready to atrophied as a group of people. Not only do they have enemies on the outside but also on the inside. Many faithful members are now ready to dig in and wait for the fight as I am doing now. Any person in any congregation can now accuse someone of a wrongdoing and remain hidden while the cost to defend one self is enormous to the accused. Does this sound familiar in our Christian past? So now we wait for the new inquisition and burning at the stake just like before when the Pope said all those questioning their authority is to be sought out and purged for their sins. Along with others who are still members, including me are watching with a careful eye; we are waiting for the head hunt to begin and see how their book-burning club seeks out betrayers in their own ranks. One fact is the Elders will come to your home telling you they are there for encouragement while the whole time they are searching through your house and judging you with their soft words as they question ones on irrelevant subjects. The congregation meetings soon after the district assemblies began to create lectures of apostate teachings and those who speak out against the Organization. Here is one talk that I took notes on that shocked not only me but those who are the old members as well. I quote, ” Let anyone who has an opinion or voice not in harmony with the Society and the Anointed be removed. We should all sing in chorus like the angles in heaven… Those who believe they are individuals be reminded they are rebelling against God.” My question is what God or God's are they talking about? If Jehovah created us to be individuals with free will than whom are they talking about, or is it they believe God was in error in the Holy Scriptures? The shunning destroying families will be the horrid crime that would even offend Christ himself. If one cannot question the authority system that our hierarchy has created than we as people are no more than thoughtless robots in a Nazi regime. For a group of people supposedly to obey the scriptures they don't seem too follow to closely. In Jude verse 22 say's “Continue showing mercy to those who have doubts”. Do you think they do this simple act of mercy? It's a good question they should not only ask themselves but as whole group. I have this comment directed to the President of the Jehovah's Witness' Organization and that is, “ you have substituted the oneness of God for the diversity which cannot be resolved into one. Through this you have created the torment of incomprehension, and the mutilation of the created world of thought, the essence and law of which is diversity. How can you be true to your nature when you attempt to make one (your personal thoughts of God) out of many? I tell you this, what you do to the Angels, Christ and most of all Jehovah himself, that which evil what you preach will befall you also.” This scripture says it all and so I will quote it from our Organization own Bible. 1 Corinthians 4:3-5, “ Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by you or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. For I am not conscious of anything against myself; yet this does not prove me righteous, but he that examine me is Jehovah. Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.” Will the Witness' follow the written word from their own source or will they have an excuse similar to those Puritans who burned witches for Gods sake? We must resist with all our might the conspiracy to limit and narrow our perception, masquerading tendentious religious dogma as absolute truths. Witnesses want to really know the truth then how come the Organization doesn't admit that its way of conducting the congregation is similar to that of Valentinian Gnosticism in the first century. Congregation members give talks (preach) to the laity, the women also go on stage, not directly preaching to the audience but to another on the stage (podium), same thing. Preaching from door to door to other Christians declaring the imperfections of their faith that they alone have the good news of salvation, and their ideas of the struggle of light and darkness found only in the Jehovah's Witness' doctrine, etc, etc, etc. Can they really believe the rest of the world doesn't see this? This is why they and the Mormons seek the dregs of life to fill their seats not as Christ did for salvation but for the need of power and money. They are like public braggarts boasting of their enrollment not of those poor they saved from disaster or distress. The many that love and give freely of themselves now have to regulate whom they associate with. During the concluding session of the same assembly in July one of the last speakers insisted on avoiding bad association and the weak; however, isn't this contrary to scripture also? In John 7:24 states these actions clearly by saying,” Stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” My question to the Society is how can you have a double standard? If Jesus said to go for the lost sheep and leave behind the other ninety-nine, then where does one draw the line on who is weak? If the weak are in need of help but shunned are the Elders no better than the men Christ himself condemned as evil serpents and so Christ sat with prostitutes and beggars. Will the Elders wash my feet as Christ our leader did? Is there such a humble man in our Organization? Each person in our Kingdom Halls is so preoccupied with making a good appearance they have lost the truth on why the first century congregation formed. If anyone has noticed while attending our meetings many of the members are no more than empty shells, regurgitating the same useless babble so not is different. Image is not everything it's the wholeness one can exert with love and kindness is the fine works spoken of in Galatians 5:22-3; therefore, its not a showy display but helping the poor and weak in which the grace of God blesses people. I will keep attending and reporting. Stay on the watch, you may also be next to be questioned about your inner feelings and standing in the congregation. Beware to all of you. Sincerely, The Mole

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
19:53:45
Comments

“ True love and peace within the Organization; let's remain under God's rule with faith.” These words where spoken at the last district assembly of Jehovah's Witness in July of 1999. Do they speak the truth or with fork tongues? Beware all members of the Organization; the time I warned you about have begun; they are out to find you. With a smiles and cheer they come into your home to sneer. They sit in your home and listen to your every word and test every comment to see if your worthy of their man mad blessings and give their evaluation of what they feel how spiritual you are not knowing only God himself can only see these things. Can they really see the love within a person or is of their own perspective they what should be in their own eyes. Their Doomsday Prophets has spoken again. In so many words they have declared that the year 2000 will be the coming of Christ; however, they are a little smarter than before when they prophesied in 1975 and 1984 that the end would come. So by not putting anything in print they have plausible deniability if it doesn't come as expected. What is so humorous is that many Brothers and Sisters during one of our afternoon breaks at the assembly gave a long and detail synopsis of how the world is coming to an end in the year 2000 and how his family is preparing for it. I laughed heartily while listening to one of our member's go on and on how they are so faithful and how Jehovah will save them in the time of need. Can anyone be haughtier than this; does this sound like the Pharisees? The real question to ask is will the organization stop or discourage such talk? A well-known and reputable speaker within the Society declared this at our convention and so I thought this needed to be said and I quote, “ The time has come when those inside our organization will cool off and betray our brotherhood, … the time is near and the weeding out has begun. The end of the times as declared by the apostles and Jesus is now!” If these words are true than 98% of the world's population is dead with no hope of salvation through Christ, so all peoples of the world must conform to the ideas of the Jehovah's Witness' that salvation must come through their organization. There is NO scripture in the Bible that declared salvation through an organization, it says though it's through Christ alone. Are they to makes us believe they alone have this power? Why would a God of love and peace destroy the innocent along with the evil? The Jehovah's Witness' proclaim they have covered the world with their worldwide teaching and that those who didn't listen will be destroyed, the Mormons are declaring the same message, which is correct? Also are this showing true love and a good example to others around them who are looking for the rule truth about God and his Son? Another thing is that they have an excuse for every crime they commit and act of abhorred brutality they do, the cover ups would reach the sky but will they admit it; but no, it is all good because Jehovah god will only forgive them and no one else. Beware all; they have started their witch-hunt to look for apostates within their own organization. Its looks like they are ready to atrophied as a group of people. Not only do they have enemies on the outside but also on the inside. Many faithful members are now ready to dig in and wait for the fight as I am doing now. Any person in any congregation can now accuse someone of a wrongdoing and remain hidden while the cost to defend one self is enormous to the accused. Does this sound familiar in our Christian past? So now we wait for the new inquisition and burning at the stake just like before when the Pope said all those questioning their authority is to be sought out and purged for their sins. Along with others who are still members, including me are watching with a careful eye; we are waiting for the head hunt to begin and see how their book-burning club seeks out betrayers in their own ranks. One fact is the Elders will come to your home telling you they are there for encouragement while the whole time they are searching through your house and judging you with their soft words as they question ones on irrelevant subjects. The congregation meetings soon after the district assemblies began to create lectures of apostate teachings and those who speak out against the Organization. Here is one talk that I took notes on that shocked not only me but those who are the old members as well. I quote, ” Let anyone who has an opinion or voice not in harmony with the Society and the Anointed be removed. We should all sing in chorus like the angles in heaven… Those who believe they are individuals be reminded they are rebelling against God.” My question is what God or God's are they talking about? If Jehovah created us to be individuals with free will than whom are they talking about, or is it they believe God was in error in the Holy Scriptures? The shunning destroying families will be the horrid crime that would even offend Christ himself. If one cannot question the authority system that our hierarchy has created than we as people are no more than thoughtless robots in a Nazi regime. For a group of people supposedly to obey the scriptures they don't seem too follow to closely. In Jude verse 22 say's “Continue showing mercy to those who have doubts”. Do you think they do this simple act of mercy? It's a good question they should not only ask themselves but as whole group. I have this comment directed to the President of the Jehovah's Witness' Organization and that is, “ you have substituted the oneness of God for the diversity which cannot be resolved into one. Through this you have created the torment of incomprehension, and the mutilation of the created world of thought, the essence and law of which is diversity. How can you be true to your nature when you attempt to make one (your personal thoughts of God) out of many? I tell you this, what you do to the Angels, Christ and most of all Jehovah himself, that which evil what you preach will befall you also.” This scripture says it all and so I will quote it from our Organization own Bible. 1 Corinthians 4:3-5, “ Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by you or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. For I am not conscious of anything against myself; yet this does not prove me righteous, but he that examine me is Jehovah. Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.” Will the Witness' follow the written word from their own source or will they have an excuse similar to those Puritans who burned witches for Gods sake? We must resist with all our might the conspiracy to limit and narrow our perception, masquerading tendentious religious dogma as absolute truths. Witnesses want to really know the truth then how come the Organization doesn't admit that its way of conducting the congregation is similar to that of Valentinian Gnosticism in the first century. Congregation members give talks (preach) to the laity, the women also go on stage, not directly preaching to the audience but to another on the stage (podium), same thing. Preaching from door to door to other Christians declaring the imperfections of their faith that they alone have the good news of salvation, and their ideas of the struggle of light and darkness found only in the Jehovah's Witness' doctrine, etc, etc, etc. Can they really believe the rest of the world doesn't see this? This is why they and the Mormons seek the dregs of life to fill their seats not as Christ did for salvation but for the need of power and money. They are like public braggarts boasting of their enrollment not of those poor they saved from disaster or distress. The many that love and give freely of themselves now have to regulate whom they associate with. During the concluding session of the same assembly in July one of the last speakers insisted on avoiding bad association and the weak; however, isn't this contrary to scripture also? In John 7:24 states these actions clearly by saying,” Stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” My question to the Society is how can you have a double standard? If Jesus said to go for the lost sheep and leave behind the other ninety-nine, then where does one draw the line on who is weak? If the weak are in need of help but shunned are the Elders no better than the men Christ himself condemned as evil serpents and so Christ sat with prostitutes and beggars. Will the Elders wash my feet as Christ our leader did? Is there such a humble man in our Organization? Each person in our Kingdom Halls is so preoccupied with making a good appearance they have lost the truth on why the first century congregation formed. If anyone has noticed while attending our meetings many of the members are no more than empty shells, regurgitating the same useless babble so not is different. Image is not everything it's the wholeness one can exert with love and kindness is the fine works spoken of in Galatians 5:22-3; therefore, its not a showy display but helping the poor and weak in which the grace of God blesses people. I will keep attending and reporting. Stay on the watch, you may also be next to be questioned about your inner feelings and standing in the congregation. Beware to all of you. Sincerely, The Mole

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
20:10:11
Comments

This letter was sent on behalf of many brothers and sister gathering in our home afraid to speak out on what we have seen and endured. To the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses'; As members of the Jehovah's Witness' organization we feel that unity in the place of rightness is found in all religions. We will do all that we can to preach that we only adhere to the bible and not to imperfect men. The "Organization" is not always directed by God or Christ, but by selfish desire. We now have a great following who seek truth and wish the dissolution of the Governing Body. We the collective of Witness' continue to meet for pure truth. We are free to speak and to think without the pollution of false doctrine. Our numbers are growing secretly and proportionately throughout the US and Mexico. Soon we will start for the path of truth too Jehovah and his beloved son Jesus. Unless the Governing Body's viewpoints change, all of you will just have too face the fact that we no longer see the Society as the absolute truth in governing Jehovah's thoughts and love for his people. Just as Israel split into two separate nations, so we see our organization also. We shall soon declare our independence and secede from the Watchtower and Tract Society and FORM our own nation to serve Jehovah and his son Christ. All of you have been found guilty and listed as Inquisitors of Evil. We pray to Jehovah that you shall turn away from bad and do what is good in the eyes of the Lord. Repent for your wicked acts Brothers that you will find peace with yourselves. Your Resignations are expected promptly. Jehovah's Theocratic State of Free People:

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
21:58:44
Comments

I think 95% of the people here are just jerking each other off with made up stories. It's not nice to lie.

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
22:01:01
Comments

Mr. Brown, I want to thank you for being brave, especially having been an elder, and for having the courage to doubt the policies and confront the organization. I am one 4 siblings who were abused by my step-father, a ministerial servant at times, for 13 years. My sister and I have left the congregation and are considered in-active, but have not yet been disfellowshipped, probably because we haven't voiced our "true" feelings about several different policies we disagree with. But surprisingly enough, my oldest brother is a Presiding Overseer in the Novato, CA congregation. My mother, also beaten for 13 years is still a pioneer in the Santa Rosa, CA congregation and is "defined" by her beliefs in the organization. It saddens me deeply that the society made my mother CHOSE to remain married to this monster for so long because divorce is not allowed. Even more so, as I raise my new baby, it deeply hurts me that she would chose a religion (a cult in my eyes) over the safety and welfare of her children. There are many teachings I still agree with and believe, although throughout the years they are becoming few and far between, but the biggest problem is that we are all imperfect and the organization is imperfect as well, but the amount of power given to theses imperfect men is too much and destroys many lives in the process. My name is Geana Smalls and I am a victim, not an apostate. email: geanaz@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
23:28:19
Comments

MOLE: Thank you. And thank you to the brothers & sisters who asked for the resignation of the governing body. Getting rid of the conscience? *****sister with Brother in Novato and the sister in New Mexico I would like to email you both but there is a little fear right now, lots of posts missing, people have received viruses and I need to set up a separate email address just for here. ********I would like to propose a registration and a screening of each post before it appears**** Those of us that have the money to support someone doing this or a fund just for this purpose???****so that OUR posts don't disappear. There are too many people in the organization who are sincerely caring that are just starting to come here. Is it possible for us to share the job????from our own computers?Anything to stop the interruption of the communication. Just some ideas. \\\\\\\ There is no other site like this, not to say there are not really good sites, but something happens here that doesn't happen anywhere else. There are no petty gripes, all intelligent deep thoughts from really caring people who really love Jehovah God. From On My Soap Box

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
23:33:57
Comments

I find it very suspect that so many posting suddenly vanished. It was the material that was deleted. Was it intentional? It seems classic witness ways to me. I don't need to lie about the M.O. of the witnesses in my personal life. What they have done even without physical violence is beyond my experience with any other sect, ideology, or religion. Mainly because the hate, apathy, and cruelty is so intense and unnecessary. I admit freely that many witnesses have suffered unjustly for their way of life. Witnesses are growing when most movements are not. But, to move ahead in quantity at any price and disregarding the quality of the individuals in the group is dangerous for a movement. Any attempt to change the witness train is a large giant to take on. I wish you success. (luck suggests random chance.)

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
23:37:29
Comments

foxnew.com***nbc.com****newsweek.com Dr Laura fax number 818/461-5140****also an excellent post on jehovahwitnesses.com Title: Shunning as a Tool by Dog Patch posted 6/18/02 go to page two of post index.

Remote User:
Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
23:39:38
Comments

Made a mistake: it is Jehovah-witnesses.com. You need the hyphen, sorry.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
00:30:41
Comments

This religion spends too much time advertising how it is right on every subject. No wonder they are willing to cover up, and force people to shut up. I was reading some of the arrogant comments from the earlier Watchtowers, and it is my feeling that with time this organization will learn humility the hard way. Growth is slowing, false expectations are becoming well known, and this latest scandal may show the governing board that it is time to think about what you saying instead of always saying what it thinks.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
01:17:16
Comments

To the Mole: Very powerful statement! To Jehovah's State of Free People: Wow, I had no idea!

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
06:12:57
Comments

In case this was 'lost': watchtowernews.org for current news. (The options at the site are also EXCELLENT.)

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
06:38:50
Comments

good going Bob Stumberger

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
07:53:11
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Greetings... I'm no computer wiz, but I would guess it was some sort of system crash as to why the posts from June 14,15,16,17 disappeared. I'm sure there are backup copies somewhere and they will be re-posted by the Webmaster (hoping! 'cuz I sure can't remember everything I may have posted). I'm sure once things are figured out, the Webmaster and/or Bill will let us know. Hang in there troops! An SL (silent lambs) Cheerleader!

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
07:59:20
Comments

Who is Bob Stumberger? I don't see a post by that name, so what does this post mean? "good going Bob Stumberger"? SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
08:16:14
Comments

We're so used to the 'sneakiness' of JWs, no wonder we suspect the worst! In any event, here's another link worth visiting: antijehovahswitness.com (try .org if that doesn't work - I always mix up those two - sorry) Scroll down to 'What are JWs Afraid Of?' It's excellent (tho he does get a little carried away at the end - he must really be missing his friends)

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
09:33:00
Comments

Hello Everyone: I heard at one of the forums that Bill Bowen is on vacation, and that most probably the posts disappearing was some sort of technical glitch; and that most web companies do have backup copies. So in due time maybe all the lost posts will be able to be restored. Everyone be patient! Loving regards, SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
09:58:33
Comments

I have read where people claim to have received viruses, (Those who leave there Email addresses). My question is what virus is being sent? Who sent it? What detects it? Norton? Has anyone who was sent a virus pursued the authorities over it? Or is this just another JW scare tactic? I have no doubt that JW gestapo and Elders are monitoring this site, (Hi guys:) bite me) but they aren't the kind of virus I mean. I think that we should update our computers with the best antivirus software today and, look up ways to combat the virus sending crapaloids. (Unless they are a "urban-legend.) JB

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
10:13:00
Comments

Hello. I'm a reporter for a regional newspaper in the Southeast. I'm researching this story. I appreciate the emotions on both sides of this issue, but I need hard facts for my article. The Dateline, Newsweek, and AP stories and the home page here all relate the same three documented cases yet the splash screen references 23,000+ occurrences? Can someone point me to more documented legal cases related to this subject? Please respond via this forum. Thank you.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
10:19:54
Comments

About missing posts - tho I don't have time to check for sure - it could be that some have had to request removal in cases where is has become dangerous, even life-threatening, to keep a post identifying certain persons/situations. This has been one of my concerns. No, my name cannot be revealed. My ex has too much money, and too many avenues of choices to do harm. Until I can move safely away - and remain hidden from him - it is no longer safe for me to comment openly about my abusive situation. While there may have indeed been a computer glitch causing numerous posts to disappear - there are other reasons too. Those that do not believe these things are happening with Jehovah's Witnesses - well, I just don't know what else to say - IT IS! IT HAS BEEN! I'VE BEEN FIGHTING TO BE HEARD AND PROTECTED (me & my children) FOR OVER A DECADE! My ex is still in good standing, as am I. Still denies what he does (even tho the police know it's him - he's extremely devious, dangerously so in their words) and so the elders cannot do anything about it to help me or our kids. I'm doing all that I can, but I don't have the financial resources he does - and never will. My only hope (short of a financial miracle) is to do what is needed to survive until the youngest child is old enough in the court's eyes to have the court honor the child's request to not be forced to see this abusive biological parent. That won't be soon enough - for any of us. To maintain my sanity I must believe that Jehovah will remember me and all my children on his day of judgement, regardless of how often, if at all, any of us get to meetings or out in service and so forth. We still love Jehovah and will do our best to do his will so as to reap the rewards of a peaceful, eternal life free of all these abusive memories. Without that there would be no reason to go on living. a silent lamb... still

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
12:33:24
Comments

I've tried to warn you all - this site is under complete scrutiny - with a bunch of JW hacking nerds hell bent on discovering just who you all are. If you haven't already done so and you don't want to be snooped on - simply falsify an account through yahoo or hotmail. thestarfinder2002@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
12:44:26
Comments

To The Mole, it will only be a matter of time before the elders will be knocking at my door for I have voiced my opinion as to my feelings about the Dateline story. My question to you is this, what do I need to know before they come? How do you continue to go to "the meetings"? I can't attend because I feel guilt by association and I won't have that on my conscience! The scripture at Revelation 18:4 that says "And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues." That scripture keeps ringing in my head, there must be a reason! To those who have been victimized, I'm truly sorry for the pain that you have endured! As a baptized witness of Jehovah for many years, I had no idea this sort of thing was going on and now that I do, I hang my head in shame! Signed: Someone in Texas

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
13:48:19
Comments

To all posting their stories: It takes great courage to post your pain and anguish on this site. I commend all of you or shall I say all of us. I was raised as a JW, and did the whole nine yards, serving where the need was great, pioneered, baptized etc etc. etc...but you know what I was never happy. Deep in my heart of hearts and soul I felt that this god named Jehovah was the type of god that I did not like, because of terrible things that I knew was happening in my congregation, plus being a victim of physical abuse from my mom, who was a witness for over 25 years. For years I blamed my mom for the abuse, but now that I am in my late 30's , and my mom has passed away. I have come to the realization that she was a victim as well. She was a single woman with a child, and those of you who may have noticed, a single woman with a child is a target in the JW organization. For years there have been "brothers" sniffing after my mom like she was some dog in heat. Fortunately my mom was having none of that. I guess she felt that the only person, that has the "right" to abuse her child would be her. To make a long story short, to all the survivors, don't place the blame on your parents completely, for they are victims as well. There is a time and place for everything. Now is the time to heal. I am not longer a JW and haven't been for over 10 years. A good book for all to read and meditate on "The Language of Letting Go." by Melody Beattie If anyone would like to write mslaydj@mail.com May the Higher Power bless all the children, the little ones and the adult children too.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
13:55:24
Comments

I WAS READY FOR THIS!!!!!!!! I made sure to copy my letter to newsweek just in case!!! Here it is:I was one of Jehovah's Witnesses since birth. I was sexually abused by my uncle when I was 4 yrs old. My grandfather was on of the "higher ups" in the religion. He not only did not report it, but didn't even tell anyone in the congregation to have an inside investigation. The worst part about it is my own father caught him in the act-there was no need for the inside investigation. I had a witness to the act. I know of many others who have similar stories. The Catholics have taken some steps to change- the Watchtower Society took steps to prepare themselves and their millions of followers before the Dateline expose' even aired. They have been told what to say and how to respond to any questions or accusations of the topic. They will all say the same thing if you asked someone, even if they didn't know each other and it would be the same from state to state. The policy they go by is based on a two witness rule. If you don't have one then the situation is treated as if it never existed. My sister had 5 WITNESSES!!!!!! Since he denied it-it was dismissed-never reported. Some of her witnesses were also assaulted by the same guy. Another witness was told by the perp what he had done and that witness (another guy) came forward- to no avail. I know if you took some time to investigate this you what you would find would not only be shocking but would make anyone sick to their stomach!!!! If you need more info or stories you can find whatever you need at silentlambs.com I know of many people who will go on TV or release a statement, myself included, to see this come out in much more detail. I doubt anyone from the Watchtower Society will talk to you or anyone, but their literature would be enough. I was what you call disfellowshipped, which is excommunicated at the age of 15. That means no one including your own family will have anything to do with you. Not even a hello if they saw you on the street. The ones who spoke out on Dateline suffered this same judgement. They are the judge, jury, and executioner. Let me know if I can offer you any further assistance. Thank you for your time, Jesika Thoman- Dallas, Tx WE ALL need to have a voice to make the WTS listen, and if they don't they will show the world who they really are-the two faced, self-indulged people who will sacrifice(sp?) the innocence of children to uphold their image to the world and they do it in GOD"S NAME!!!!!!!!!! Please everyone write whoever you can. How many Catholics did it take to get heard? I'm sure it was more than a couple!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx--White Rock Cong.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
14:01:47
Comments

DEAR REPORTER, I COULD ONLY FIND 3 CASES MYSELF, THE FOURTH WAS NOT MENTIONED. 23,000 OCCURRENCES?? I AM A BIG FAN OF DATELINE BUT I HAVE TO SAY, I WAS VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH THE DATELINE REPORT ON THE WATCHTOWER. I FEEL THEY ONLY PRESENTED ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. DON'T GET ME WRONG, CHILD ABUSERS AND ORGANIZATION S WHO HARBOR AND PROTECT THEM BELONG IN JAIL, BUT, AS THE SAYING GOES “ INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY”. I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR ARTICLE AND, I HOPE IT PRESENTS BOTH SIDES OF THE STORIES WITH HARD FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. PLEASE LEAVE A LINK TO YOUR NEWSPAPER WEBSITE IF POSSIBLE. OH, AND HERE IS THE FOURTH CASE NOT MENTIONED ON DATELINE OR ON THIS WEBSITE. IF I AM WRONG ABOUT THIS CASE NOT BEING MENTIONED ON THIS WEBSITE, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHERE IT IS LOCATED. IF I AM RIGHT, WHY IS THIS CASE NOT MENTIONED? THANKS. MAINE SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT Reporter of Decisions Decision: 1999 ME 144 Docket: Cum-98-531 Argued: May 4, 1999 Decided: October 18, 1999 Panel: WATHEN, C.J., and CLIFFORD, DANA, SAUFLEY, and ALEXANDER, JJ. BRYAN R. v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC., et al. SAUFLEY, J. [1] Bryan R. alleges that he was sexually abused during several of his adolescent years by Larry Baker, an adult member of his church. He has obtained a judgment against Baker, but his complaint against the church and its elders was dismissed by the Superior Court (Cumberland County, Calkins, J.) for failure to state a claim. He appeals from the judgment dismissing the claims against the church defendants. We affirm the judgment. I. BACKGROUND [2] Because this matter was presented to the Superior Court on the church's motion to dismiss, we take the material allegations of the complaint as admitted. See McAfee v. Cole, 637 A.2d 463, 465 (Me. 1994). The following facts were alleged in Bryan's complaint: [3] The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a New York-based nonprofit corporation, better known as the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is a religious organization. When the events at issue occurred, Robert Wells, Pat LaBreck, and Bryan's stepfather were "elders" and members of the "judicial body" of the Augusta congregation of the church, Larry Baker was an adult member of the church, and Bryan R. and his family were members of the congregation. [4] At some time in the past, also while Larry Baker was an adult member of the church, he molested a minor member of the congregation identified as "John Doe." The elders of the Augusta congregation knew that Baker had molested John Doe. Wells, LaBreck, and Bryan's stepfather, in their roles as the judicial body of the Augusta congregation, decided on the following response to Baker's actions: (1) they demoted Baker from "ministerial servant" to "baptized entry level member"; (2) they "privately rebuked" Baker; and (3) and they temporarily "forbade Baker from having any contact with minor members" of the church. The defendants did not alert the members of the church to Baker's misdeeds.{1} [5] Eventually, Baker was allowed by the defendants to resume activities as an ordinary member of the church. Bryan alleges that Baker was able to earn his trust and confidence because the church placed Baker in a position of leadership and respect. Bryan was molested by Baker from 1989 through 1992 while Bryan was a teenager and lived next door to Baker. He alleges that his stepfather, who was aware of Baker's history, nonetheless allowed Baker to spend time alone with Bryan at his home. As a result of Baker's repeated sexual abuse, Bryan suffered significant emotional harm necessitating psychiatric hospitalization. [6] Bryan filed this action against Baker, the church, and its elders to recover damages for the injuries he suffered as a result of Baker's assaults on him. In count I of his complaint, he alleged that each of the defendants breached a fiduciary duty owed to him as a member of the congregation; in counts II and III, he alleged that the defendants were liable to him for negligent infliction of emotional distress and intentional infliction of emotional distress. Count IV contained Bryan's claim against Baker for battery, and in count V, Bryan alleged that his stepfather was individually liable for negligence. The stepfather was later dismissed from the action pursuant to a joint motion filed by the parties, thereby resolving count V. [7] The Watchtower Society, Robert Wells, and Pat LaBreck filed a motion to dismiss each of the claims against them. After a hearing, the Superior Court granted the motion, concluding that Bryan had failed to state a claim, relying on Swanson v. Roman Catholic Bishop of Portland, 1997 ME 63, 692 A.2d 441. Bryan's appeal from that judgment was remanded for lack of finality because the claims against Larry Baker had not yet been adjudicated. The Superior Court, based on a stipulation of the parties, entered judgment against Baker. After the entry of judgment against Baker, Bryan appealed from the court's judgment dismissing the claims against the church defendants. Baker did not appeal the judgment against him. II. DISCUSSION A. Standard of Review and Claims Asserted [8] In reviewing the trial court's dismissal of a complaint, we "examine the complaint in the light most favorable to the plaintiff to determine whether it sets forth elements of a cause of action or alleges facts that would entitle the plaintiff to relief" pursuant to a valid cause of action. McAfee, 637 A.2d at 465, quoted in Hamilton v. Greenleaf, 677 A.2d 525, 527 (Me. 1996)). "The legal sufficiency of a complaint challenged pursuant to M.R. Civ. P. 12(b)(6) is a question of law." Hamilton, 677 A.2d at 527. [9] Before examining the claims asserted by Bryan, it is instructive to address those claims that he does not assert. He does not allege that Baker was an agent or employee of the church. Nor does he claim that Baker occupied any clerical position such as priest, minister, or pastor. Cf. Swanson, 1997 ME 63, 13, 692 A.2d at 445.{2} Moreover, the complaint does not allege that the church affirmatively placed Baker in a position of control and supervision of children, such as a Sunday school teacher or youth coordinator, or that the church knowingly placed Baker in a position where he could sexually abuse children within a church setting. Rather, Bryan alleges that Baker was "able to earn [Bryan's] trust and confidence" because of his position of power and authority in the church.{3} These allegations place Baker in a relationship to Bryan that was not different in quality from any other member in good standing of the church. [10] The crux of Bryan's claim is that the church, because of an alleged special relationship with its members, has a duty to protect its members from each other, at least when the church and its agents are aware of a potential danger posed by a member. Because the church elders knew of Baker's propensity to abuse children, Bryan argues that they had an independent duty to protect him from Baker.{4} He addresses that duty through three separate counts. We address each count in turn. B. Breach of Fiduciary Duty [11] Bryan bases his first theory of liability on an alleged duty on the part of the church to protect him from the actions of dangerous third parties. Whether a defendant owes a duty of care to a plaintiff is a matter of law for the court. See McPherson v. McPherson, 1998 ME 141, 8, 712 A.2d 1043, 1045; Fish v. Paul, 574 A.2d 1365, 1366 (Me. 1990). In determining whether a duty exists, we must ascertain whether the alleged wrongdoer is "'under any obligation for the benefit of the particular plaintiff.'" Trusiani v. Cumberland & York Distribs., Inc., 538 A.2d 258, 261 (Me. 1988) (quoting W. Page Keeton et al., Prosser and Keeton on the Law of Torts § 53, at 356 (5th ed. 1984)). [12] There does not exist a general obligation to protect others from harm not created by the actor. "The fact that the actor realizes or should realize that action on his part is necessary for another's aid or protection does not of itself impose upon him a duty to take such action." Restatement (Second) of Torts § 314 (1965). In other words, the mere fact that one individual knows that a third party is or could be dangerous to others does not make that individual responsible for controlling the third party or protecting others from the danger.{5} [13] Indeed, at early common law, inaction or nonfeasance was seldom actionable. As commentators have noted, "[l]iability for nonfeasance was . . . slow to receive recognition in the law." Keeton, supra, § 56, at 373. Over decades, however, courts have come to recognize a duty on the part of certain groups to protect others from harm caused by third parties. "Certain relationships are protective by nature, requiring the defendant to guard his charge against harm from others." Id. § 56, at 383.{6} Nonetheless, "in the absence of the requisite relationship, there generally is no duty to protect others against harm from third persons." Id. § 56, at 385. [14] Even with the emergence of expanded liability for nonfeasance, that principle has remained clear-in instances of "nonfeasance rather than misfeasance, and absent a special relationship, the law imposes no duty to act affirmatively to protect someone from danger unless the dangerous situation was created by the defendant." Jackson v. Tedd-Lait Post No. 75, 1999 ME 26, 8, 723 A.2d 1220, 1221. Only when there is a "special relationship," may the actor be found to have a common law duty to prevent harm to another caused by a third party.{7} There is simply "no duty so to control the conduct of a third person as to prevent him from causing physical harm to another unless . . . a special relation exists between the actor and the other which gives to the other a right to protection." Restatement (Second) of Torts § 315(b) (1965).{8} [15] Therefore, in order to determine whether the church owed Bryan a duty of care to protect him from other members of the church, we must determine whether a special relationship, reviewable by the secular courts, exists between a church and its members in this context. Bryan asserts that such a relationship does exist, and he refers to it as a "fiduciary" relationship. "One standing in a fiduciary relation with another is subject to liability to the other for harm resulting from a breach of duty imposed by the relation." Id. § 874. He bases the alleged fiduciary relationship on the "substantial trust and confidence" he placed in the church, and alleges that the church breached its fiduciary duty to him when it failed to warn him about Baker and failed to exert some type of control over Baker's actions. [16] Thus, we are presented with two questions: first, whether we would recognize a cause of action against a voluntary social or religious organization for breach of a fiduciary duty to protect the organization's members from each other. Put another way, we must determine whether a voluntary organization such as a church has a special relationship with its members that gives rise to a duty to protect those members from a class of third parties-other members of the organization. Second, we are asked to determine whether such a cause of action could be maintained against a church in light of the free exercise protections contained in the First Amendment. [17] On the facts alleged in the complaint, we conclude that Bryan has failed to plead a fiduciary relationship with sufficient particularity, and we decline to recognize a general common law duty on the part of an organization such as a church to protect its members from each other. Accordingly, we do not reach the constitutional issue. [18] We begin by addressing the identification of a fiduciary relationship. Bryan has not provided any support for his assertion that a religious organization has a fiduciary relationship with its members that requires it generally to protect those members from other members of the church who may present a danger. Nor have we ever found a fiduciary relationship to exist in the circumstances presented here. We recognize, as have many courts, that it is often difficult to articulate exactly what proof is required to establish the existence of a fiduciary relationship in particular circumstances.{9} A fiduciary relationship has been described as "something approximating business agency, professional relationship, or family tie impelling or inducing the trusting party to relax the care and vigilance ordinarily exercised." L.C. v. R.P., 563 N.W.2d 799, 801-02 (N.D. 1997) (internal quotation and alterations omitted). [19] We have described the salient elements of a fiduciary relationship as: (1) "the actual placing of trust and confidence in fact by one party in another," and (2) "a great disparity of position and influence between the parties" at issue. Morris v. Resolution Trust Corp., 622 A.2d 708, 712 (Me. 1993). A fiduciary relationship has been found to exist in several categories of relationship, including business partners, see Rosenthal v. Rosenthal, 543 A.2d 348, 352 (Me. 1988), families engaged in financial transactions, see Estate of Campbell, 1997 ME 212, 9, 704 A.2d 329, 331-32, and corporate relationships, see Moore v. Maine Indus. Servs., Inc., 645 A.2d 626, 628 (Me. 1994); Webber v. Webber Oil Co., 495 A.2d 1215, 1224-25 (Me. 1985). [20] We have noted, however, that a "general allegation of a confidential relationship is not a sufficient basis for establishing the existence of one." Ruebsamen v. Maddocks, 340 A.2d 31, 35 (Me. 1975). As with any duty, its existence must be informed by "the hand of history, our ideals of morals and justice, the convenience of administration of the rule, and our social ideas as to where the loss should fall." Trusiani, 538 A.2d at 261. Although a fiduciary duty may be based on "moral, social, domestic, or[] merely personal [duties]," Ruebsamen, 340 A.2d at 34, it does not arise merely because of the existence of kinship, friendship, business relationships, or organizational relationships. A fiduciary duty will be found to exist, as a matter of law, only in circumstances where the law will recognize both the disparate positions of the parties and a reasonable basis for the placement of trust and confidence in the superior party in the context of specific events at issue.{10} A court, therefore, must have before it specific facts regarding the nature of the relationship that is alleged to have given rise to a fiduciary duty in order to determine whether a duty may exist at law. [21] Thus, because the law does not generally require individuals to act for the benefit of others, the factual foundations of an alleged fiduciary relationship must be pled with specificity. Simple recitations of a trusting relationship will not suffice for identifying a fiduciary duty. In order to survive a motion to dismiss a claim for breach of fiduciary duty, the plaintiff must set forth specific facts constituting the alleged relationship with sufficient particularity to enable the court to determine whether, if true, such facts could give rise to a fiduciary relationship. See Clappison v. Foley, 148 Me. 492, 497, 96 A.2d 325, 328 (1953); see also Gibson v. Brewer, 952 S.W.2d 239, 245 (Mo. 1997) (en banc). [22] The allegations set out in Bryan's complaint do not provide the "sufficient particularity" required in pleading a fiduciary relationship. See Ruebsamen, 340 A.2d at 35. Instead, the facts alleged by Bryan as constituting a fiduciary relationship simply reiterate the basic elements of a fiduciary relationship. Recitation of those basic elements cannot substitute for an articulation in the complaint of the specific facts of a particular relationship. The allegation that Bryan placed "substantial trust and confidence" in the elders of the church and trusted them "to protect him and guide him" does not set forth the factual foundations for a special responsibility on the part of the church. Such vague and nonspecific allegations are wholly insufficient to make out a claim of a special relationship between the organization and its members. [23] Finally, the complaint does not allege that there were aspects of Bryan's relationship with the church that were distinct from those of its relationships with any other members, adult or child, of the church. The creation of an amorphous common law duty on the part of a church or other voluntary organization requiring it to protect its members from each other would give rise to "both unlimited liability and liability out of all proportion to culpability." Cameron v. Pepin, 610 A.2d 279, 283 (Me. 1992); see also Jackson, 1999 ME 26, 8, 723 A.2d at 1221 (finding no special relationship between the American Legion and a "regular customer" except as created by the Maine Liquor Liability Act, 28-A M.R.S.A. §§ 2501-2520 (1988 & Supp. 1998)); Hughes v. Beta Upsilon Bldg. Ass'n, 619 A.2d 525, 527 (Me. 1993) (finding no duty to prevent spectator from injuring himself during fraternity activities). [24] Accordingly, accepting the facts as alleged in the complaint, the Superior Court did not err in dismissing that portion of the complaint which depended upon the imposition of a generalized fiduciary duty on the part of the church to protect members of its congregation from other members. C. Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress [25] Bryan next claims that the defendants may be responsible for intentionally inflicting emotional distress upon him. If allowed to proceed, Bryan would be required to demonstrate that the church's conduct was "so extreme and outrageous as to exceed all possible bounds of decency and must be regarded as atrocious [and] utterly intolerable in a civilized community." See Finn v. Lipman, 526 A.2d 1380, 1382 (Me. 1987). In addition, he would be required to demonstrate that the church, through this specific conduct, intentionally or recklessly inflicted emotional distress, or was certain or substantially certain that emotional distress would result. See id.; see also Davis v. Currier, 1997 ME 199, 5, 704 A.2d 1207, 1209; Colford v. Chubb Life Ins. Co., 687 A.2d 609, 616-17 (Me. 1996). [26] In support of his claim, Bryan alleges that the church knew of Baker's propensity to harm children, that it failed to announce Baker's misdeeds to the congregation, that, through its agents, it devised a plan to address his transgressions, and that this plan was "woefully inadequate" to protect against future harm of minors, including minor members of the church. Bryan asserts that the church's failure to excommunicate Baker, its failure to shun him, and its eventual decision to allow Baker to a resume a position of leadership and respect within the church constituted acts that were sufficiently extreme and outrageous that they exceeded all possible bounds of decency. [27] We do not lightly dismiss the harm caused by the sexual abuse of children, nor do we misapprehend the enormity of that harm if inflicted in the context of religious activities.{11} On these facts, however, we conclude that the effort to hold the church responsible, in addition to the wrongdoer himself, would require direct inquiry into the religious sanctions, discipline, and terms of redemption or forgiveness that were available within the church in the context of this claim, an inquiry that would require secular investigation of matters that are almost entirely ecclesiastical in nature.{12} [28] State courts may not interfere in matters concerning religious doctrine or organization. See Swanson v. Roman Catholic Bishop of Portland, 1997 ME 63, 7, 692 A.2d 441, 443. A religious organization's decisions and actions when providing advice, counsel, or religious discipline to its members will be based on the particular religious beliefs of the organization, and thus, like the decisions and actions with respect to the organization's government, cannot by themselves form the basis for secular liability. See id. 12, 692 A.2d at 445 (quoting Pritzlaff v. Archdiocese of Milwaukee, 533 N.W.2d 780, 790 (Wis. 1995) and Schmidt v. Bishop, 779 F. Supp. 321, 332 (S.D.N.Y. 1991)). Allowing a secular court or jury to determine whether a church and its clergy have sufficiently disciplined, sanctioned, or counseled a church member would insert the State into church matters in a fashion wholly forbidden by the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. [29] The Superior Court did not err in dismissing that portion of Bryan's complaint asserting a claim of intentional infliction of emotional distress against the church and its elders. D. Negligent Infliction of Emotional Distress [30] Although it is no longer necessary for a plaintiff to plead or prove the existence of a separate tort in order to assert a claim for negligent infliction of emotional distress, a plaintiff must nonetheless demonstrate that the defendant owed him a duty of care and must prove the breach of that duty of care by the defendant. See Devine v. Roche Biomed. Labs., Inc., 637 A.2d 441, 447 (Me. 1994). The removal of the necessity for a plaintiff to allege an underlying tort or physical impact did not create a new cause of action, but simply removed the barriers that prevented plaintiffs from proceeding with claims already recognized in Maine, when the only damage suffered was to the psyche. See id. [31] In examining the scope of this tort, we have declined to apply a pure foreseeability analysis to determine when a duty arises. See Cameron v. Pepin, 610 A.2d 279, 284 (Me. 1992). Only where a particular duty based upon the unique relationship of the parties has been established may a defendant be held responsible, absent some other wrongdoing, for harming the emotional well-being of another. See, e.g., Bolton v. Caine, 584 A.2d 615, 618 (Me. 1990) (holding that a physician-patient relationship gives rise to a duty to avoid emotional harm from failure to provide critical information to patient); Gammon v. Osteopathic Hosp. of Me., 534 A.2d 1282, 1285 (Me. 1987) (holding that a hospital's relationship to the family of deceased gives rise to a duty to avoid emotional harm from handling of remains); Rowe v. Bennett, 514 A.2d 802, 806-07 (Me. 1986) (holding that the unique nature of psychotherapist-patient relationship gives rise to a duty of care to the patient). [32] We have never recognized a relationship between churches and their members of the type that would give rise to a duty to avoid psychic injury to those members, and we could not do so without inquiring into the ecclesiastical relationship whose components are not within the purview of the secular courts. See Swanson, 1997 ME 63, 7, 692 A.2d at 443. The court did not err in dismissing Bryan's claim of negligent infliction of emotional distress. The entry is: Judgment affirmed. Attorney for plaintiff: Michael J. Waxman, Esq., (orally) P O Box 375 Portland, ME 04112-0375 Attorney for defendants: Bruce C. Mallonee, Esq., (orally) Rudman & Winchell, LLC P O Box 1401 Bangor, ME 04402-1401 (for Watchtower and others) Attorneys for amicus curiae: Frederick C. Moore, Esq., (orally) Robert C. Robinson, Esq. Daniel Nuzzi, Esq. Robinson Kriger & McCallum P O Box 568 Portland, ME 04112 (for the Roman Catholic Bishop of Portland) Parties that did not file briefs: Paul C. Catsos, Esq. Thompson & Bowie P O Box 4630 Portland, ME 04112 (for additional church defendants) M. Michaela Murphy, Esq. Daviau Jabar & Batten 1 Center Street Waterville, ME 04901 (for Baker) FOOTNOTES******************************** {1} . Bryan alleges that among the options available to the defendants upon discovering Baker's misdeeds were: (1) "kick[ing] him out" of the Watchtower Society; (2) publicly rebuking him for his actions; (3) requiring him to undergo "professional evaluation for sexual impulse control"; (4) and requiring him to undergo "professional treatment for sexual impulse control." Bryan alleges that the defendants took none of these steps. {2} . Because Baker is not alleged to have been an employee or agent of the church, we are not called upon to determine whether the "balancing of interests" we referenced in Swanson may require a different result when a child, rather than an adult, is injured by an agent of the church. Swanson, 1997 ME 63, 13, 692 A.2d at 445. {3} . He also argues that the church allowed Baker to lead "Field Ministry Excursions" which included Bryan, thereby implying that by cloaking Baker with power and respect, the church negligently allowed Baker to gain Bryan's trust. {4} . Had the clergy members of the church learned of Baker's assault on Joe Doe more recently, they would have had a statutory duty to report that information to the Department of Human Services and to the appropriate district attorney's office, unless the information was obtained during confidential communications. See 22 M.R.S.A. §4011(1)(D) (Supp. 1998). Bryan did not raise this issue before the Superior Court, and the amendment adding clergy to the list of mandated reporters was not enacted until long after the facts alleged in the complaint took place. See P.L. 1997, ch. 251, § 1 (effective Sept. 19, 1997) (adding "clergy members" to the list of those responsible for reporting child abuse). {5} . In limited circumstances, courts have recognized that an actor may have a duty to warn third parties of the dangerous propensities of another when the actor has a special relationship with the dangerous person and the person threatened is a specific, foreseeable, and identifiable victim of the dangerous person's threats. See, e.g., Tarasoff v. Regents of Univ. of Cal., 551 P.2d 334, 345 (Cal. 1976); Thompson v. County of Alameda, 614 P.2d 728, 734-35 (Cal. 1980) (declining to extend holding in Tarasoff when neither a special relationship existed nor had a specific individual been threatened); Brenneman v. State, 256 Cal. Rptr. 363, 367 (following Thompson in holding that "public entities and employees have no affirmative duty to warn of the release of an inmate with a violent history who has made nonspecific threats of harm directed at nonspecific victims"); Leonard v. Latrobe Area Hospital, 625 A.2d 1228, 1232 (Pa. 1993) (following Thompson, finding "no common law rule that imposes a duty on a psychologist or psychiatrist to warn a non-patient of a patient's dangerous propensities"). But see, e.g., Perreira v. State, 768 P.2d 1198, 1201 (Co. 1989) (holding that psychiatrist has duty to third parties to exercise due care in treatment and release of committed patients). {6} . Among those who have been held in certain circumstances to have a duty of care to protect others from harm by third parties are: innkeepers and proprietors of similar establishments, see Brewer v. Roosevelt, 295 A.2d 647, 651 (Me. 1972); Schultz v. Gould Academy, 332 A.2d 368, 371 (Me. 1975); Tenney v. Atlantic Assocs., 594 N.W.2d 11, 17 (Iowa 1999); jailers, see Harrison v. Ohio Dep't of Rehabilitation & Correction, 695 N.E.2d 1248, 1253 (Ohio Ct. Cl. 1997); and schools, see Hill v. Safford Unified Sch. Dist., 952 P.2d 754, 756 (Ariz. Ct. App. 1997). {7} . We do not address herein duties created by statute. See, e.g., Davis v. Monroe County Bd. of Educ., 119 S. Ct. 1661, 1666 (1999) (recognizing a statutorily imposed duty on the part of schools to protect children from abuse by other children or adults). {8} . Accord Gragg v. Wichita State Univ., 934 P.2d 121, 128 (Kan. 1997) (holding that corporate sponsors of fireworks on a university campus had no duty to control conduct of third party); Hoff v. Vacaville Unified Sch. Dist., 968 P.2d 522, 527-29 (Cal. 1998) (holding that a school had no duty to protect pedestrian from student); cf. J.E.J. v. Tri-County Big Brothers/Big Sisters, Inc., 692 A.2d 582, 584-85 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1997) (holding that an organization had no duty to warn of potential danger from sexual abuse of one of its volunteers where injured child was not associated with organization's programs). {9} . The term "fiduciary" is "one of the most ill-defined, if not altogether misleading terms in our law." Martinelli v. Bridgeport Roman Catholic Diocesan Corp., 10 F. Supp. 2d 138, 149 (D. Conn. 1998) (internal quotation omitted). One court offered the following explanation: Some of the indicia of a fiduciary relationship include the acting of one person for another; the having and exercising of influence over one person by another; the inequality of the parties; and the dependence of one person on another. Fiduciary duty arises, for example, between attorneys and clients, guardians and wards, and principals and agents. Doe v. Hartz, 52 F. Supp. 2d 1027, 1059 (N.D. Iowa 1999) (internal quotations omitted). {10} . Relationships "will not give rise to a confidential relation . . . unless there is evidence of superior intellect or will on the part of the one or the other, or of trust reposed or confidence abused." Ruebsamen, 340 A.2d at 35 (emphasis added). {11} . Bryan does not allege that Baker molested him during any of the church's activities. {12} . The amicus provides multiple examples of differing principles applied in various religions to determine whether and under what circumstances a church can or should discipline its members and what methods of discipline, counseling, and spiritual guidance are available.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
14:17:38
Comments

TO THE REPORTER!!!!!!!! If you want any info on any stories you need to leave an e-mail address if you want any kind of response. Many here are afraid to leave any names or info. because of the JW's. This is something many people are afraid of-like who are you and who are you reporting for??????? Prove It!!! To most of us you could be someone from the WTS. We won't tell you anything unless we know who you are and have a web site to prove it!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman Dallas,TX

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
14:23:08
Comments

Post your stories on letters@newsweek.com I thought I put the address on my last post and I guess I forgot-SORRY!!!!!!! Love, Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
15:52:41
Comments

" The Language of Letting Go." by Melody Beattie. --- BTW, Beattie also wrote the book, "Co dependency No More."

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:07:54
Comments

Dear Friends: I think everyone needs to chill out a little re: this paranoia idea about the WTS reading this site. So what if they are reading? What can they do to you? Anyone who posted their address knew in advance this is a PUBLIC site. The ones who post their address really do not care who sees it, from what I have read. ------- If you feel you have given too much detail about yourself by telling your story, even so... Unless someone else who knows you in your cong (if you are a current JW) visits this site and can tell from the story that it is YOU particularly... well, how likely is that? ------- I really think everybody is Over-Reacting. Think of it This Way: It could very well be pro-WTS persons who are posting those"warning" messages trying to make you FEEL PARANOID exactly for the purpose of trying to SCARE YOU so YOU WILL STOP POSTING YOUR STORIES! Ever think of it that way? ------ Also, I read from two very-experienced website owners this: (1) If someone was "really" hacking into this site, they would have done A LOT more damage than wipe out a few day's of posts. (2) They would have changed wording to posts to make everyone look bad, rather than just wipe out a few days' of posts. (3) It is completely illegal to mess with a website, and neither of them felt the WTS would do such a thing; tho one felt WTS "supporters" may be willing to do such "dirty deeds". (4) That due to the fact that it was posts from RECENT DAYS that disappeared, that likely means a glitch or crash in the site's server/system/etc. ---------- So, my humble opinion is that everyone should just RELAX. I'm sure all will be fine once the site owner and Webmaster take a look at whatever the problem was. ------ SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:13:58
Comments

Grand Jury Investigating Boston Cardinal June 19, 2002 08:55 AM ET BOSTON (Reuters) - The leader of the Roman Catholic archdiocese at the center of a child sex abuse scandal may face criminal charges for his handling of priests accused of raping and molesting children, Boston newspapers reported on Wednesday. Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly has convened a grand jury to decide whether there is enough evidence to charge Boston Cardinal Bernard Law and other high-ranking archdiocese officials for their handling of priests accused of sexually abusing children, The Boston Globe and The Boston Herald http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=XC4D5RZLAW1F0CRBAE0CFEYKEEATGIWD?type=topnews&StoryID=1108312

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:14:00
Comments

PS: To the reporter: I agree with Jesika: It's rather odd that a professional person, like yourself, would not leave an email addy and/or your credentials if you were serious, and really wanted more info. ---- Also, have you tried writing the owner of this site, as I'm sure he would have specifics. ---- Or, don't reporters already know how to get info? You could go "undercover" by becoming a JW, get admitted to Bethel, and then raid the offices late at night to get the 23,000+ names... Just a thought. ---- There must be legitimate ways, but I'm no attorney so I just don't know. I'm sure the "Sunshine Law" does not apply to religious orgs, does it? ------ SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:20:16
Comments

One last thought on the Missing Posts: About a week ago when I visited the Guestbook, only half of them for June loaded in (from about June 1 through 8). I tried several times, but same thing kept happening. I had zapped an email to site owner, and he wrote he passed the info onto the Webmaster. (I thought maybe the site was merely "updating itself" or whatever). My point is: MAYBE it was on the verge of "crashing" last week. Maybe that was a "symptom" that the system had a flaw, but it didn't totally crash out until yesterday, taking with it a few prior days' worth of posts. ----- My other reason for thinking there may be a problem with the system is because, previously, when you would double-space in your post, it WOULD show double-spacing once it printed on the Guestbook page. But now it does NOT show double-spacing, but it runs everything together into one big paragraph. --- Due to those two reasons, I think it was a weakness in the system that finally went "kaput;" and NOT any WTS spies or anybody else messing with the SL website. ---- Just my 2-cents. Thanks. SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:24:03
Comments

If there are any SL Advocates out there with Website Knowledge, maybe you could offer to help Bill Bowen with the upkeep of this site? He has lots on his plate to deal with besides this site (like actually assisting individual lambs with their cases, etc., not to mention supporting himself and his family, work, etc.) I would gladly volunteer if I knew how to "run a website." The best I can do is offer to help with any typing that needs to be done on behalf of SL. And I'm serious with that offer. Kind regards/ Willing Typist.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:27:53
Comments

Hey All-------I found this quite interesting, and revealing-----How the WTS says that lying is OK! Check this out!!! *** Insight, Volume 2 pp.244-5 Lie *** LIE The opposite of truth. Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person. A lie need not always be verbal. It can also be expressed in action, that is, a person may be living a lie. [...] Especially serious have been the religious lies, as they have endangered the future life of persons deceived by them. Said Jesus Christ: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one you make him a subject for Gehenna twice as much so as yourselves." (Mt 23:15) The exchange of God's truth for "the lie," the falsehood of idolatry, can cause a person to become a practicer of what is degrading and vile.-Ro 1:24-32. [...] While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. [Emphasis Added] *** Watchtower 1976 July 15 pp.447-8 Questions from Readers *** ·If a Christian must testify in court, is it proper for him to place his hand on the Bible and swear to tell the whole truth? [...] When the courtroom procedure is that of raising a hand or of placing a hand on the Bible when swearing, a Christian may choose to comply, having in mind the Bible examples of accompanying an oath with a gesture. But more important than whether a person makes a certain gesture with his oath is the fact that he is swearing before God to tell the truth. Such an oath is serious. So if a Christian feels that he can and should answer a question put to him in such circumstances, then he is under oath to tell the truth. [Emphasis Added] *** Watchtower 1960 June 1 p.351 Questions from Readers *** • From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian's obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given: God's Word commands: "Speak truth each of you with his neighbor." (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive ... As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies. [Emphasis Added] *** Watchtower 1957 May 1 pp.285-286 Use Theocratic War Strategy *** A WITNESS of Jehovah was going from house to house in Eastern Germany when she met a violent opposer. Knowing at once what to expect she changed her red blouse for a green one in the very next hallway. No sooner had she appeared on the street than a Communist officer asked her if she had seen a woman with a red blouse. No, she replied, and went on her way. Did she tell a lie? No, she did not. She was not a liar. Rather, she was using theocratic war strategy, hiding the truth by action and word for the sake of the ministry. In this she had good Scriptural precedent. Did not Rahab hide the Israelite spies by both action and word? Did not Abraham, Isaac, David and others likewise hide the truth at times when faced with a hostile enemy? They certainly did, and never do we read a word of censure for their doing so. Rather, we read of their being termed exemplary servants of Jehovah. Their actions were in line with Jesus' wise counsel: "Look! I am sending you forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves."-Matt. 10:16, NW. Perhaps some will wonder as to where the line is to be drawn between use of theocratic war strategy in hiding the truth and the telling of lies. First of all, let it be noted that whenever one takes an oath to tell the truth he is obligated to do so. By dedicating himself to do God's will each Christian has taken a vow or made an oath to do God's will and to be faithful to him. To this oath he certainly must be true. Likewise, when a Christian is placed on a witness stand he is obligated to speak the truth if he speaks at all. At times he may prefer to refuse to speak and suffer the consequences rather than betray his brothers or the interests of God's work. And, of course, there is no occasion for use of war strategy when dealing with our Christian brothers. In dealing with them we tell the truth or tactfully remind them that what they seek to know does not concern them. Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent. A great work is being done by the witnesses even in lands where their activity is banned. The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God's kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods the literature is brought into the country and distributed. Would it make sense to hide this literature by one's actions and then reveal its whereabouts by one's words when queried? Of course not! So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary, it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God's servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work. [Emphasis Added] *** Watchtower 1956 Feb 1 pp.88-89 Cautious as Serpents Among Wolves *** 45 We dare not lie against God's Word, adding to it or taking away from it, reading into it what it does not say and denying, passing over or explaining away what it does truthfully say. "Every word of God is tried: . . . Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." (Prov. 30:5, 6, AS) We may not tell untruths in his name, for that puts God in the light of a liar. "Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar." (Rom. 3:4, NW) In Jeremiah's day the false prophets prophesied lies in Jehovah's name and lied against his purpose, foretelling in his name what he had not foretold. Therefore Jehovah was against them. He executed judgment against them at Jerusalem's destruction in 607 B.C. (Jer. 23:25; 27:15) Religious liars like them today cannot escape a like judgment but will meet a like end at Armageddon. 46 Never swear falsely in Jehovah's name. Jehovah declares that at his temple he will be a "swift witness against . . . the false swearers." (Mal. 3:5, AS) Never take an oath in his name and then tell lies as a sworn witness. Rahab of Jericho was under no oath in Jehovah's name to tell the facts to the king's officers and hence was not a false swearer or a false witness. "A faithful witness will not lie; but a false witness uttereth lies." (Prov. 14:5, AS) A faithful witness does not love a false oath. So he tells the truth as he swore to do. What he does speak will be the truth. If he speaks at all he will tell the truth. To the extent that he chooses to talk he will state the truth. If for conscientious reasons he refuses to tell everything he will be willing to suffer the consequences if he be judged deserving of a penalty. He refuses to tell everything, not to escape punishment, but facing punishment for conscientious reasons. Even Jesus kept silent before Pilate, refusing to answer though knowing Pilate's power.-John 19:8-11. [Emphasis Added] *** Reference Bible Revelation 22:15 *** 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and the fornicators and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie.' [Emphasis Added]

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:28:36
Comments

A RE-POST from 6/16/02: ----- Remote User: Date: 13 Jun 2002 Time: 18:22:48; wrote: Comments: "Maybe I missed it. Is there a place on this site or a way that people can be notified of individuals that are going to court and would like a support network during the trial? Including financial support. Or a place to stay while during the trial. Or even for the people who are their support network." ------ Dear Remote User: Maybe you did not have time to read other areas of this site. Answers to your questions can be found as follows: (1) See the LEFT column of menu bars/links. Click on the one entitled "YOUR GIFT TO SILENT LAMBS" to make financials donations for the cause. (2) Click on the one entitled "HELP SILENT LAMBS" to read the specific areas of what/how to provide assistance. (3) If you want to help in any way which is not described in these other areas of the site, you can email Mr. Bowen to ask directly. In the LEFT column, the very last menu bar/link says, "EMAIL." Click on that for a complete description and email addresses. (4) Lastly, go to the HOME page and at the top of the page are two rows of links/bars. The top row, third from the left says, "ADD ME TO EMAIL". Click on that to be added to the Silent Lambs email list wherein you will receive whatever updates are provided by the site owner, Mr. Bowen. --Visitor--- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FAQs link: http://www.parentsformeganslaw.com/html/prevention.lasso Assistance Link: http://pac-info.com/index.php searchable database for criminals. http://www.nationalcasa.org/ Court appointed special advocates-assistance molested children http://www.ncjrs.org/ national criminal justice reference service http://www.parentsformeganslaw.com/ information megan's law http://www.calib.com/nccanch/prevmnth/scope/tollfree.html toll free numbers to report child molestation in every state http://www.abanet.org/child/abuselaws.html How to find state law information on child abuse ------------------------------------------------------------------------ HELP SILENTLAMBS (left hand column, menu bars): Would you like to help silentlambs? We offer this page as a place where you can get involved with specific action to get the word out and assist silentlambs on this issue. It can be broken down into six areas: 1. Local advertisement using want ads or "penny pincher" type newspapers. This should offer an inexpensive way to get the word out to many who do not know if this issue. You are responsible to pay the ad costs and by doing so helping to let others know. To look at the ads you simply need to CLICK HERE 2. A downloadable brochure that will be tri-foldable, it works as a pass out to anyone you may meet and gives the basics of what silentlambs is trying to accomplish. You may read the brochure and download it. CLICK HERE 3. Silentlambs, inc is now a 501,C, 3 non-profit corporation and your donation to support our work can now be tax-deductible. Monies donated will be used exclusively for the benefit of victim assistance and making known this issue to force Watchtower to change its misguided policy. You may use a credit card, money order or Pay-Pal. To utilize this option, CLICK HERE 4. "friends of silentlambs"-We wish to establish a network of safe houses for victims who may be in danger or who may be victimized by misguided Jehovah's Witnesses. We are looking for individuals who could provide sanctuary for up to thirty days for parents and children who may be threatened. We would like to establish safe havens in every state within the United States. We ask you provide information about your ability to be able to assist in this regard. If you would like to become a part of a network known as "friends of silentlambs", to register CLICK HERE 5. LEGAL ASSISTANCE-If you have experience in legal areas such as an attorney or paralegal and wish to volunteer or work at a reduced rate to assistance victims to be protected and help them have a voice when threatened by Watchtower Policy, CLICK HERE 6. COUNSELING-If you have credentials for counseling victims of molestation and would like to help direct them on how to get the best assistance, CLICK HERE. --------------------------------------------------- In reply to: Remote User: Date: 13 Jun 2002 Time: 19:51:21; wrote: Comments: "I think instead of fooling around we should call the Attorney General and the FBI...it is kind of like STILL not going to the "police"if you know what I mean. ... Hell the United Nations must have some form of rights for children that they might be interested in this diabolic "two witness" where there is never two witnesses...." ---and--- Remote User: Date: 13 Jun 2002 Time: 21:41:27; wrote: Comments: "I am all for the FBI and any other true law enforcement that will work with us." ------ My reply: AGAIN, I say rather than TALK about it, here are the LINKS/Emails so each of you and all of us can DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Zap these agencies an EMAIL and ASK! As the saying goes, "You Never Know Unless You Ask." And if there are any "legal heads" reading this site, maybe they can give us their opinions. But for now, write write write! Advertise, Advertise, Advertise! ------ Write the UNITED NATIONS YOURSELF: <http://www.un.org/english/> or email them and ASK: inquiries@un.org. ------- Write the FBI YOURSELF: <http://www.fbi.gov/> ----- Nat'l FBI-HQ: <http://www.fbi.gov/hq.htm> Here's what the FBI does: "Criminal Investigative Division: The FBI's investigative mandate is the broadest of all federal law enforcement agencies. This division coordinates investigations into organized crime, including drug matters, racketeering, and money laundering; investigations into violent crimes, including wanted fugitives, escaped federal prisoners (in some instances), unlawful flight to avoid prosecution, violent gangs, serial murders, kidnappings, bank robberies, violent crimes and property crimes of an interstate nature, crime on Indian reservations, crimes against U.S. citizens overseas, and theft of government property; investigations into white-collar crime, fraud against the government, corruption of public officials, health care fraud, election law violations, business and economic frauds and corruption crimes; and investigations into civil rights violations." ----- FBI's Crimes Against Children Program: <http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/crimesmain.htm> "Individual FBI Field Offices serve as primary points of contact for persons requesting FBI assistance. For further information about FBI services or to request assistance, please contact a Crimes Against Children Coordinator at your local FBI Field Office.: <http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/info.htm> (addresses/ phones/links to local FBI Field Offices - find one in YOUR area). And this link lists the field offices by state and what areas they cover: <http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/territory.htm> "The FBI encourages the public to report any suspected violations of U.S. federal law. You can do so by calling your local FBI office, Legal Attache office, or by submitting a tip via the FBI Tips and Public Leads form." This online form is located at: <https://www.ifccfbi.gov/complaint/terrorist.asp> (Even though it says "terrorists," this online form is NOT just for terrorists tips/leads). ---- FBI's National Sex Offender Registry: <http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/registry.htm> ----- FBI's Federal Statutes Relating To Crimes Against Children: <http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/cac/federal.htm> ----- Chat with the FBI: FBI Chats: <http://www.fbi.gov/chat/chatinfo.htm> 2000 Chat Archive | 2001 Chat Archive | 2002 Chat Archive "FBI Chats began in August 2000 and has since developed into a weekly program run by the Office of Public and Congressional Affairs. Representatives from the FBI answer questions sent from the public via the Internet. The person or people answering questions are directly involved in work relating to the chat topic. Chats typically take place on Thursday afternoons, from 1 - 2 pm, Eastern Time. At the conclusion of a chat, its transcript is placed on the FBI Chats archive page where it can be reviewed or printed." -------- Someone else mentioned getting INTERPOL involved since the WTS is an international org. Well, contact INTERPOL YOURSELF. Here's their info: ----- INTERPOL: <http://www.usdoj.gov/usncb/> & <http://www.usdoj.gov/usncb/usncborg/mission.html> "U. S. Department of Justice, U. S. NATIONAL CENTRAL BUREAU of INTERPOL ("Point of Contact for International Law Enforcement"); M I S S I O N: The U.S. National Central Bureau (USNCB) was authorized by statute (22 U.S.C. 263a) and operates within the guidelines prescribed by the Department of Justice, in conjunction with the Department of Treasury. The mission of the US National Central Bureau is to facilitate international law enforcement cooperation as the United States representative with the International Criminal Police Organization (INTERPOL), on behalf of the Attorney General. The major functions of the USNCB are to: *Transmit information of a criminal justice, humanitarian, or other law enforcement related nature between National Central Bureaus of INTERPOL member countries, and law enforcement agencies of the United States. * Respond to requests by law enforcement agencies, and legitimate organizations, institutions and individuals, when in agreement with the INTERPOL constitution. * Coordinate and integrate information for investigations of an international nature and identify those involving patterns and trends of criminal activities. ------ Filing a Request to Interpol: <http://www.usdoj.gov/usncb/StateLiaison/filingrequest.html> ------- And, you mentioned getting the Attorney General involved. Well, here's his info: US DEPT. of JUSTICE (DOJ) & Attorney General(s): <http://www.usdoj.gov/sitemap/index.html> Contact the DOJ: <http://www.usdoj.gov/contact-us.html> or Email them: AskDOJ@usdoj.gov DOJ'S Violence against Women: <http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/vawo/> DOJ's Office for Victims of Crime (including child sex abuse): <http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/> & <http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/help/welcome.html> ----- Lastly, some attorneys & prosecutors in the country want to use the federal RICO law in order to prosecute/sue the Catholic Church. Other law scholars think this law cannot be used against the Church, since the law was created to fight mob/organized crime. Well, decide for yourself, and write the Attorney General and/or the DOJ: ------- Federal RICO Law (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations): A search at the Dept. of Justice website re: the RICO law came up with these (and many other) links: ------- (100% relevant) http://www.usdoj.gov:80/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/rico.pdf Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO): A Manual for Federal Prosecutors FOURTH REVISED EDITION July 2000 Prepared by the Staff of the Organized Crime and Racketeering Section U.S.... ------- (100% relevant) http://www.usdoj.gov:80/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/text/usam9110.wpd 9-110.000 ORGANIZED CRIME AND RACKETEERING 9-110.010 Introduction 9-110.100 Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) 9-110.101 Division Approval 9-110.200 ------ (100% relevant) USAM 9-110.000 Department of Justice > USAM > Title 9 prev | next | Criminal Resource Manual 9-110.010 Introduction 9-110.100 Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO) 9-110.101 Division... ------ Now, everyone has their homework cut out for them. No more excuses! Signed, again, "Bored with all the TALK/No Action."

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:31:29
Comments

Newsweek's webpage: <http://www.msnbc.com/news/NW-front_Front.asp> The home page had this info near the bottom: Web Exclusives Health & Lifestyle • U.S. Bishops: Day of Atonement • Another Religion Faces a Scandal ----- <http://www.msnbc.com/news/767800.asp?cp1=1> Witness To Shame Ripple effects: Another religion faces a scandal of its own By Julie Scelfo NEWSWEEK June 24 issue — As Roman Catholic bishops issued a mea culpa last week, Jehovah's Witnesses, a cloistered group of 980,000, moved closer to facing a sex-abuse scandal of their own. In January a woman from Sacramento, Calif., filed a lawsuit charging that church leaders knowingly failed to notify civil authorities that she was raped by a member of her congregation. A FORMER CHURCH leader in Maryland was indicted in February for sexually assaulting three women who say they were told by elders not to report the abuse, and were excommunicated when they did. After additional stories aired recently on TV, a victims' support group run by William H. Bowen was deluged with e-mails and phone calls. “Catholics only protect the priests. Jehovah's Witnesses do it for any member of the church,” says Bowen, a former elder from Kentucky. Sara Poisson says that prior to her husband's conviction for sexually abusing her daughters, church elders told her to “pray more and be a better wife.” Church spokesman J. R. Brown says the group instructs local leaders to notify police when required by law. They also conduct their own investigation: “That consists of going directly to the accused.” If someone confesses, says Brown, he will be prohibited from going door-to-door—unless accompanied by another Witness. Brown points out that people who accuse the church are often lapsed Witnesses, and “open prey” for exploiters. But victims like Poisson's daughter, Heather Berry, 20, say it's the church that does the exploiting. “They're letting the kids down. I don't think there's anything Christian about allowing abuse to continue.” © 2002 Newsweek, Inc.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:33:20
Comments

If anyone would like to see a "scanned" copy of the actual Newsweek PRINT EDITION article, it can be found here: <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=30411&site=3&page=1>

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:38:31
Comments

At 5 am/EDT on 6/18/02, the Newsweek story was at #4 of the MSNBC Top 10! (I was kinda surprised there had only been 441 votes cast).... <http://www.msnbc.com/top10.asp> Check out MSNBC.com's Top 10 MSNBC.com's most highly recommended stories, listed below, are rated daily on a scale of 1 to 7 by MSNBC.com viewers. (Results are automatically updated every 60 seconds.) To add your voice to the tally, simply cast your vote on the ratings scale at the bottom of each story on MSNBC on the Internet. You can rate as many stories as you like, but you can rate each story only once. Scientists ‘teleport' a laser beam 6.05 372/Technology --- Test your science IQ 6.02 1888 Technology --- Arrests show al Qaeda's global plans 5.91 1219 News --- Witness To Shame 5.9 441 Newsweek --- CIA mandate to oust Iraq's Hussein 5.82 797 News --- Scientific illiteracy is no joke 5.76 795 Technology --- Why software is so bad ... 5.76 276 Technology --- A war of words 5.75 241 Opinions --- Sealed coffin found near pyramids 5.7 712 Technology --- How Big Tobacco nicked terror act 5.68 583 Politics ---- Conditions and Privacy © 2002 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As of right now, 6/19/02, at 5:40 pm/EDT, sadly the WTS Newsweek story is not in the Top 10.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:40:42
Comments

NEWSWEEK CONTACT INFO (RE-POSTING): <http://www.msnbc.com/modules/newsweek/info/nwinfo_contactus.asp> Contact Us: Newsweek.MSNBC.com * Editorial questions and comments: Send a direct email to: WebEditors@newsweek.com * For questions about the website: Customer.Care@newsweek.com Newsweek Domestic Edition * Letters to the Editor for the U.S. PRINT EDITION: Letters@newsweek.com * Mailing Address: Newsweek, 251 W. 57th St., New York, NY 10019 Newsweek International Editions * Letters to the Editor: Editors@newsweek.com Newsweek Subscriptions * U.S./Domestic Subscriptions Services * International Subscription Services ------------ Newsweek Feedback page, for Letters to Editor, Online Mail Call, and Live Talk, concerning current and/or recent issues:<http://www.msnbc.com/news/NW-feedback_Front.asp?0nw=n2a> ----------------- Newsweek: E-Mail the Editors, Online Form Here: <http://www.msnbc.com/modules/Newsweek/feedback/nwfeedback.asp> Use this page to send a complaint, compliment or suggestion about our coverage: Comments Your name Your hometown Your e-mail address Thanks for your e-mail. While we appreciate your feedback, we don't publish the full text of letters sent to the site. We do, however, forward mail to appropriate editors and reporters for the domestic and international editions and to Web editors and writers. (Obscene, personally insulting or otherwise inappropriate mail is deleted.) In addition, on Fridays we publish Online Mail Call, a summary of the mail we receive about both print-edition stories and Web-exclusive reports. -------------- Newsweek: Submit a Story Here, & Other Pertinent Info: <http://www.msnbc.com/modules/newsweek/info/nwinfo_about.asp> Newsweek Information Site FAQ: How to send a story, use the archives and other information. Contact Us: How to send complaints, compliments, questions and concerns. Submitting 'My Turn': Directions for submitting a 'My Turn' piece for publication in Newsweek magazine. Pressroom: An inside look at what Newsweek is telling the media about what's hot in this week's issue. Rights and Reprint Sales: For color reprints of Newsweek articles or if you'd like to reprint Newsweek material in a book, another magazine, on a Web site or for a classroom, these are the details you need. Newsweek ON AIR: The magazine's weekly radio interviews with newsmakers and correspondents. Terms, Conditions and Privacy: The fine print; important reading for all users. ------------------- Newsweek: Save this link for AFTER the story hits the newsstands, and then go back and read Feedback and/or Live Talk, etc.: <http://www.msnbc.com/news/NW-FEEDBACK_Front.asp#TALK>

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
16:45:03
Comments

The website, Public Citizen.org <http://www.citizen.org>, offers this info on how to locate/write your Congressman, if you want to write them about the WTS sex abuse coverup/scandal, etc.: ------ National Link: Put in your zip code and the next page will give you pictures and names of your congressmen, with links to their email addresses: <http://action.citizen.org/pc/dbq/officials/> OR--YOU CAN REACH YOUR SENATORS BY CALLING THE U.S. CAPITOL SWITCHBOARD AT 202-224-3121, OR 202-225-3121. Ask to speak with the person handling whatever issues and ask for a written response to your call. Pass the word on to your colleagues/friends and family and get them to call as well. SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
17:06:41
Comments

WAY TO GO!!! to the Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly who has convened a grand jury to decide whether there is enough evidence to charge Boston Cardinal Bernard Law and other high-ranking archdiocese officials for their handling of priests accused of sexually abusing children, The Boston Globe and The Boston Herald http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=XC4D5RZLAW1F0CRBAE0CFEYKEEATGIWD?type=topnews&StoryID=1108312 ---------------------------- See, the "higher ups" who engaged in the coverup just might get their tails pinned to the wall. I sure hope so! Sleazy dogs & cowards there were/are! And it makes me think of the scripture about the "handwriting on the wall"! If there is 23,000+ names of molesters at WTS-HQ (and I DO BELIEVE THERE ARE), I bet the WT lawyers have the paper-shredding machines going full blast.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
17:27:40
Comments

Try this link it works better..................... http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/170/metro/A_grand_jury_is_said_to_weigh_case_against_Law+.shtml Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly has convened a grand jury to consider whether there is enough evidence to bring criminal charges against Cardinal Bernard F. Law and other leaders of the Archdiocese of Boston for putting priests in position to sexually abuse minors, according to law enforcement sources.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
18:03:19
Comments

Good judgement call on the REPORTER**** I thought the same thing. I e-mailed Dianne Feinstein -thank you for the address to www.citizen.org. it was easy. Also, Newsweek, I emailed them, thanking them for article and to view silentlambs for the "rest of the story."************************************I too would be willing to give some time to help maintain the site.*****************I am trying to remember what I wrote: something about the ones moaning and groaning over the detestable things(us) and how the WTS disfellowships/calls them apostate- WTS acts like someone is complaining for the sake of complaining and that this is not the heart wrenching, spirit sucking, child destroying, outrageously wrong way to handle this atrocity. *****this might be a little out of line but one of the other things I wrote is that I wanted to put up the American Flag, since the WTS was an NGO member of the UN, promoting the UN ( I remember reading the articles & wondering what was going on)in protest of the hypocrisy and for the Malawi brother/sisters who have really suffered too.*****Of course I wrote it more eloquently and passionate the first time!*********love from Soap Box

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
18:20:21
Comments

HERE ARE A FEW QUOTATIONS FROM patiencepress.com Survivors won't feel safe with a therapist or group until they have, over time, experienced safety.*****THE EFFECTS OF A TRAUMATIC STRESSOR ARE WORSE WHEN THE CAUSE IS HUMAN Neglect OR HUMAN CRUELTY.************BEING SAD IS PRACTICALLY ILLEGAL*****SURVIVORS ARE NOT MEANT TO FACE THIS ALONE AS IF THEY WERE POLAR BEARS OR SOME OTHER SOLITARY NON-VERBAL SPECIES.....THE BEHAVIORS OF TRAUMA SURVIVORS ARE DIRECT EVIDENCE, SOMETIMES THE BEST EVIDENCE, OF WHAT THEY HAVE SURVIVED*****WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SURVIVE...visit patiencepress.com if you want. I have Post Trauma sTress - and found her information very insightful.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
18:47:09
Comments

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_01.htm

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:06:09
Comments

To whoever posted the WTS library link.... 19 Jun 2002 Time: 18:47:09; Comments: http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_01.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What we want to see is the OCTOBER 8, 1991, Awake! (pages 3-11) posted at the WTS library site. Do you have a link for THAT magazine & those specific articles? If so, please post it here. Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:08:35
Comments

IS THERE ANYONE IN DALLAS!!!!!!!!!!! I have contacted many around the country who are willing to meet and to talk about anything having to do with the situation at hand. I am thrilled to talk to anyone who is willing, but my question is-is there anyone in the Dallas area excluding my family members who have posted??????????? I am just curious. If so please leave an email address. I would leave mine but I am not using my own computer and any viruses would affect the person's computer I am using. Thanks Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:09:45
Comments

As far as I can tell, whoever started this website has some issues. I can really sympathize with your plights, having experienced these things personally. However, it seems like your reaching. Holding hands out and grabbing at any and every little thing that negatively shines on the JWs. Half of the articles you post don't have any substantial evidence whatsoever. Just vague allusions. AND isn't there the teaching that Jehovah will expel anyone who is not a true servant of Him. It seems that He has, from the articles you've posted. And He seems to have redeemed people who are innocent. I feel saddened that you people have forgotten these basic teachings of this faith. Maybe you never really understood them. Which would obviously lead us to the glaring fact that you ARE NOT members anymore proving that Jehovah has taken care of his flock. Those of you who are still in the faith, are doing better than most of these people. Or, could it just be that your exacting your own revenge and are doing the exact same thing to other children. The whole thing makes me ill. Which is why I adamantly urge you all to step aside the narrow teachings of any faith. And truly embrace the divine by simply realizing that you cannot possibly see the whole picture EVER, and thereby give rise to your own natural and human powers. Study other religions and faiths, experiment with ecstasy and other drugs, astral project yourself, and review former lives. Do this, and you certainly will find god in some form. :)

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:11:00
Comments

How funny that this site gets recognition only AFTER the catholic church was put under fire. I smell yet another conspiracy.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:13:04
Comments

I wish all survivors of abuse of any form all the love and healing that I can offer. I respect and weep with you all.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:18:47
Comments

" I make no apology for letting people know there's a perp in a parish." ----------- Attorney Jeffrey Anderson, as quoted in an article in the Legal Times of April 24, 2002. ----------------------- (Of course he was referring to his lawsuits against the Catholic Church, but I thought it was a great quote! We could alter it to something like, "We make no apology for letting people know there's a crook in the cong[regation]".... ---Or ---- "We make no apology for letting people know there's a molester at the meetings" [at the K.Hall].)

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:40:04
Comments

" ...... experiment with ecstasy and other drugs, astral project yourself, and review former lives. Do this, and you certainly will find god in some form. :)" ---------- OH, PUH-LEEEEZE give us a big fat break! What New Age Orbit did you just fall out from? Are you on ECSTASY right now? because you cannot even spell the word. And, may I respectfully suggest that you please go Ass-trally project your goofball comments somewhere else. --------- Oh my goodness! Pardon me for my bluntness. That was my Former Self speaking which just blurted out from my Former Life/Identity.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
19:42:00
Comments

Date: 19 Jun 2002, Time: 19:11:00, WROTE: "How funny that this site gets recognition only AFTER the catholic church was put under fire. I smell yet another conspiracy." ---------- I don't follow. What do you mean exactly? Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
21:32:00
Comments

I have already added a portion of my story and find it appalling that some have the guts to come to this website and make crude comments about the participants. WHO ARE YOU? Are you JW's? If so, WHY ARE YOU HERE? Having some doubts? If so, be glad that there is a way to feel "at ease" with proclaiming them; don't bash us for feeling the way we do. And for the ignorant person who thinks we're all making this up: LEAVE! You're not welcome here. If you're not a JW or a former one, who are you to cast any sort of judgement on us. Have you walked a minute in our shoes. I doubt it and I pray to whatever God is up there or down here that you never do! These are people who have been beaten, abused, neglected beyond comprehension and have finally found a place to express themselves and relay their stories. I gave only a tid-bit of my story, but if I were to go into details, you would think I were lying because it's just that horrific! A question to someone who's held some rank (elder, ministerial servant, governing body (I'm sure even some of them frequent here :0), I would like to know if my "publisher" number is still being counted in the statistics, although I have been inactive for several years. My sister and I wonder if/how we can strike our names from the record without disassociating ourselves. I think that if all "inactive" ones were stricken from the record, the annual "stats" would be much lower than they are, although they are quickly diminishing, especially in affluent countries. I was originally afraid to post my name for fear of some elder knocking on my door telling my I'm an apostate, but that word means nothing to me (just like all the other words my "spell check doesn't recognize). If that's what you want to call someone who's finally figured out that I can THINK my way through life rather than having every decision made for me, than so be it. I am not here to "bash" the organization, just join those who realize it's imperfect and therefore, those who run it should not be given the extreme power they have. I'm just your typical 30 something, raised in the truth, who finally decided that I can think for myself. And so far, I'm doing okay. Jes, thanks again for the reply email. To anyone who wants to "talk" feel free to email me directly. To the guy who asked about the sister who has a brother in Novato, that's me, please write me. I was bold enough to post my name and email address, so I'm pretty safe (until an elder knocks on my door) which will probably mean that soon my entire family, with the exception of my sister will no longer love me, but then again, if it's that easy to pull your love away, did they ever REALLY love me to begin with? To all those who are here who have doubts, it's okay. Doubts are normal, it's the way we decide what is right from wrong. You don't have to be one of the "abused" to feel doubts. I doubt my phone bill and indepthly research the car I buy, why not research what will decide the eventuality of my life? geanaz@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
22:13:08
Comments

Jehovah Witnesses are far removed from Christianity, It is not only the pedophilia that they are guilty of. Wherever you look you find them irresponsible narrow minded prejudiced irrational mostly uneducated people unqualified and unfair practicing broad spectrum injustice and hate in and outside their congregations. Someone said on this page that she was disfellowshipped for something of a very minor nature! I was DF'd for no fault of mine at all. I was an exemplary witness ! The chairman of the judicial committee whispered in my ear that my wife wants me out of the congregation . They want to put me outside for a year and after that they would reinstate me.I said to him that I would never do that! Ask Doug if that is not true. This organization of Jehovah's witnesses is truly a Satanic Cult as anybody who investigates this matter will tell you. They have destroyed my family mercilessly and brought me personally to the point of suicide with skill that only the Lord was able to save me from it. I lost my wife and 4 children 6 years ago also my house and posession. I will be 60 now without pension proper job or any kind of security and alone! Do not misunderstand please.There is no single syllable in my comment that is untrue or exagerated.I leave all that at the foot of the Cross. I do not hate Jeh. Witnesses and I forgive them individually. But the Watchtower Society is pure evil.They mislead over 6 million people leading them to death my wife and my children are among them! And yes I know of pedophilia and sex abuse in this area among JW's . Please pray for all these unfortunate people. Romanko In Christ

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
22:18:10
Comments

The web site is excellent. Romanko

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
22:22:43
Comments

The Guestbook has went through a transition to a larger bandwidth to accommodate more traffic. In the process Guestbook posts from 13-18 were lost in the change over process. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. If you wish to repost your comments you are welcome to do so. We appreciate your efforts in sharing your thoughts and comments. In addition, on the home page there is a reference to a website called the "lord's prayer", this to was an oversight in the transition process. As many know the policy of silentlambs is to remain neutral regarding doctrinal matters. The server provider asked to include a link to his website as he donates space for silentlambs to operate. Inadvertently the link got added and will be removed shortly. We want you to know the site has no problems with virus or hacking issues, we have extensive security measures to protect those who post. We hope you will continue to utilize this as a resource to speak out on abuse issues. silentlambs

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
22:23:33
Comments

I understand some of you may have a problem with the view that there is an active concern directed to this site from the organization. But this site poses the greatest threat to the moral authority of the WT society to date. When I tell you that it is being investigated - I mean it is being investigated. Not er... I think it may be.... And how do I continue inside the organization ? Simple - I love my brothers and sisters and I am of good standing.

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
22:26:51
Comments

I'm feeling that it is shameful to have been raised in a JW household. It's like having parents who were Nazis or members of the KKK. ____Arrogant, selfish, ruthless, ignorant and strange. What can you say about a religion that COACHES people in lying? Even lying in a court of law?_____How can it be legal to raise a child in an atmosphere of psychological abuse?

Remote User:
Date:
19 Jun 2002
Time:
23:12:55
Comments

response to the educated witness and the mole:*** There are those of us who cry out for Justice and fairness to congregation and to the society we ask, Is there such a thing as Christian Freedom? I believe that there is. Many of us in our own religious circles are being suppressed not to think and to feel. The human need of expression and love to one another is being dictated to only love those in our own religious environment but only those who publicly display themselves as righteous. This alone causes the division we know in America and else where throughout the world Germany and Ireland. This must stop, but it cannot unless we ourselves put a stop to it. We can never be like everybody everywhere all the time but at the same time do we need such divisions; on the other hand, our religion supposedly preaches love but approves the actions of shunning and abuse because one is not part of their organization or part of their click. As a member of the Jehovah's Witness Organization I see this problem within our group. In the last two weeks I have been told that we must avoid those who are not of our faith and to also avoid any one who questions the Organizations policies. Yes, it is true. We are being told by the leaders of each congregation to follow this direction so not to be against god's word. I have spoken to many of my associates and peers about this matter and we are all dumbfounded that our own organization has subjected us to follow the same rules and guidelines the Pharisees had done in Christ time. I read a book recently and it brought some facts I wanted to share with others. It was written by Bernard McGinn. In his book titled the Coming of the Antichrist he explained in his chapter of Heretics how religions then and now are still similar. **He said, “rhetoric was used internally, to identify certain Christians as apocalyptic enemies because of their heretical beliefs.....{These}traditions offer unusually strong resources for group solidarity and action against threats, imagined or real. This is as true as we approach the year 2000 as it was at the turn of the first millennium....Those who use [this] language and its equivalents [use it] only as a weapon to smear opponents. ”** I can say this. We ask Jehovah that we have recognized the cunning and the damaging seduction of our souls by false and hypocritical prophets, guided by the Antichrist against the Law of Jehovah, that we may beware of them and diligently be on our guard against them. For we now clearly see the Great Abomination standing in the Holy Place, as prophesied by the prophet Daniel: the ridicule, blasphemy, suppression, and repudiation of all God's truth. I ask for the reformation of our current problems. It is clearly evident that only those who say the word Apostate are afraid that their faith and traditions can not hold up to the truth or criticism. Is it true that our religion is scared that its members are fed up with the useless speculation about the end and the cover up of issues like presented on the Dateline interview. The irony is that many who are members are convinced the Antichrist is working within the Organization who question action such seen on TV. I can see a movement has begun for the Elders to stop frightening their congregations of the coming end and creating their own means of getting them to obey what ever whim they have that week. A talk came out at Cow Palace this last weekend on June 16th 2002 from the Organization, and I quote, **“All Christians should be careful not to add to the burdens of others by taking it upon themselves to impose their own ideas in matters of personal choice and decision of the Elders regarding judicial matters should be counseled and regarded weak brothers and sisters.....Others tend to turn the Society's suggestions and guidelines into rules....Some have carried this mature counsel to extremes.”** If this can be told to 10,000 in attendance and written for us for counsel then obviously there is a problem of those who are doing this within the organization. It stands to reason this is so or it would have not been told to us after the NBC display. I think these scriptures apply to all: Ephesians 2:8-10, 2Corinthians 3:6, Romans 7:6, John 7:24. One last point that should be brought out is the issue of disfellowshipping. It is unscriptural and against the true teaching of our Holy God. The New Jerusalem Bible, NIV, and the Oxford Bible and others give the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible without the slighted version we are forced to except as the true Bible. Isaiah 58:7 says, “you should not deny your own kin”. Yet, the Organization will follow Matthew 18:15-17 and back it up with its own literature. ***The Elders handbook “Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock” quotes all internal doctrine to support this crime of the personality.*** The vague interpretation is as solid as truth as far as the other members are concerned and will say anything to defend this injury. Shunning was condemned as part of the old order by Christ himself; Furthermore, the Elders assume a position to be judges by claiming to purify the congregation. Sadducees and Pharisees way of thinking is supported in are new way of thinking or the new light as they call it. The Elders handbook says convicting the wrongdoer and convincing the wrongdoer of his errors can bring him back to repentance. ***This is the facts and all should know the truth about the true order of things in this organization. I remember not long ago a Circuit Overseer came to my apartment to see how I was doing. He didn't say anything until the other Elder of my congregation was finished talking to me about my health. The C.O. told me to look up a scripture with him and so I obliged him. We looked up 2 Corinthians 1:21 and after we read this scripture he asked me what I thought of it. I told him that this is a major belief in our religion. He looked at it and said this was his way to see if I was apostate and to see if I believed the anointed where leading us. I could have disputed this because there is no evidence of it and also those who lead our Organization are not even of the anointed only 2% of the body claim this. After the visit ended I was shocked. One Elder Dan Soria didn't come to encourage me it was a witch hunt and he alone sought for me to be removed. Ever since then I sit at my kingdom hall not with joy in my heart but with disdain at the hypocrisy. Thanks for the past letters, now I know I am not alone. ***skeptic in Placerville**

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
00:00:26
Comments

Hi Eduardo: Yes, I know precisely what abominable means and how it is spelled! I made a typo. Yes, I agree with you -- the content is more important than the spelling, grammar etc. I was simply making an observation -- there is freedom of speech, is there not? Faye B.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
00:04:57
Comments

We make no apology for the pedophile in the isles with the microphone! we make no apology for the converted pervert who is covert......we make no apology for our stand on a man without two witnesses...we make no apology for doing the twist and it goes like this and most of all we make no apology for the little lambs that are taken by this sham. **********************************to the sweet man that lost his family, I don't know how that happened but your faith in God/Jah is what sustains you and the rest of us too. *********better to be considered a "worldly" than live in that world. Jehovah knows who his lambs are and no one can change that, not with words, rules, silence, hours, or position or organization. The governing body should be washing the feet of Jesus -not washing over their own sins. love, Soap Box

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
00:11:42
Comments

To all who post mssgs in this forum: If you say anything remotely contrary to what some JW's believe, watch out -- you are likely to receive "viruses" in your email. Last month I told my story, gave me real name, email address, and challenged any JW to disprove my story -- so far, I've received several responses in this forum criticizing me, some phone threats, and three "viruses" on my computer. Still don't regret telling my story and would do it again. At this point I believe all silentlambs are on the offensive and JWs are now on the defensive. For whatever that info/opinion is worth, F.B.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
09:38:47
Comments

Did anyone send an email to Primetime and 20/20 at ABCNews.com?

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
10:29:55
Comments

SO, IS THE BRYAN R. v. WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK, INC CASE MENTIONED ON THIS WEBSITE? ANYONE? AND IF NOT, WHY NOT???????????? Bryan Rees obtained a judgment against Larry Baker, who pleaded guilty to sexually abusing Rees, but he also sought to sue three elders of the Augusta church as well as the denomination's legal corporation. In a unanimous ruling, the Maine Supreme Judicial Court upheld a lower court's dismissal of the claims against the church leaders and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. MAINE SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT Reporter of Decisions Decision: 1999 ME 144 Docket: Cum-98-531 Argued: May 4, 1999 Decided: October 18, 1999

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
10:30:38
Comments

I have an idea for a quote from the WTS! How about,"We make no apologies."

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
10:36:30
Comments

To FB: You should call the authorities in your area - you know that threats, viruses, etc...are against the law. It could be pedophiles or it could be JWs.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
10:48:26
Comments

Watch the news last night - legislature is passing laws that will make it a felony to know of child sexual abuse and not report it. And it will be mandatory to report if you have knowledge of sexual child abuse. This is a result of the Catholic Church being exposed. So letters and comments to the Senators/Congressmen is going to be very important. Soap Box

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
11:03:31
Comments

FYI RE EMAIL TAMPERING: Please go to xjw.com. First post from Morloc dated 6/17 states that his email address is being used to send virus to others and threatening messages. So...it silentlambs is not the only target. He also explains how to detect, how to protect yourself from such messages etc...not that I understand. But he welcomes anyone to contact him about this.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
12:20:19
Comments

I E-MAILED 20/20!!! I have also emailed about 4 other places as well. I will keep doing so until I hear a response. Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
12:26:29
Comments

F*CK ALL OF YOU PATHETIC MORONS WASTING YOUR TIME WITH JEHOVAH THE GOD OF WEAKNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HOPE YOU ALL GET MOLESTED AND DIE!

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
12:37:46
Comments

To Geana "I am a victim, not an apostate" Beautiful!!! To those who fear a virus. I have posted a few times, left my addy, no virus only thoughtful responses from dear people. Although I do have the newest virus scan available. My son was told to tell me that the elders want to speak to me. I can only guess it is about that letter I wrote to the WTS. I still attend meetings, haven't moved and still have the same phone number. If they have a problem walking up to me and requesting a committee meeting; then they really have a problem! I have been reading a book, "What you think of me is none of my business". I do not live my life to please any man. I like me just fine. Keep up the great work everybody. It is heartwarming to see the growth in self worth that is happening here. Love you guys. LJM lmatheny@emtecae.com

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
12:41:07
Comments

Sacred Secret (or "Mystery") of God Revealed in Prophetic Scriptures Revelation 10:7 says, "but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to blow his trumpet, the sacred secret [Greek: mysterion, "mystery"] of God according to the good news which he declared to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish." The key to understanding God's purposes for all mankind is to be found within the prophetic words of the "prophets" of old. In fact, the entire book of Revelation is a complete compilation of all the prophets of old, the fulfillments of their words, for our modern times. These things can be seen with the "spiritual" eye, or with spiritual vision. (1 Cor. 2:15) In this way, finally when all of God purposes are fully understood by mankind and the "mystery of God" is finally finished, Jehovah thus becomes the "God of the inspired utterances of the prophets". The words become a permanent record for God, an everlasting testament to the truthfulness of "the sacred secret [Greek: mysterion, "mystery"] which has been kept in silence for long-lasting times, but has now been made manifest and has been made known through the prophetic scriptures." (Rev. 22:6; Romans 16:25, 26) Peter advised, "Consequently we have the prophetic word made more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts. " (2 Peter 1:19) The "prophetic scriptures" then, should be our primary focus, our guide or light, as we would look to it as a "lamp shining in a dark place." In other words, outside of the "prophetic scriptures" we will find no light at all. An excellent example of how the prophetic scriptures provide light for us today would be Ezekiel 20:35-38. Speaking of the future discipline of "Israel" of our day, it says "And I will bring you [Israel] into the wilderness of the peoples and put myself on judgment with you there face to face. Just as I put myself on judgment with your forefathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I shall put myself on judgment with you, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. And I will make you pass under the rod and bring you into the bond of the covenant. And I will clean out from you the revolters and the transgressors against me, for out of the land of their residence I shall bring them forth, but onto the soil of Israel they will not come; and you people will have to know that I am Jehovah." When we examine the words of Revelation 12:1, 6, 13-15 and make a close comparison with the above mentioned words of Ezekiel, immediately we see a striking similarity in both messages. Thus proving a future fulfillment for modern-day Israel of our times. Most notably in Revelation 12th chapter, we see a "woman" who has a "crown of 12 stars" upon her head [which pictures 12-tribes of Israel] sent reeling to the "wilderness", away from the "face of the dragon" and intense "persecution", for a "face-to-face" encounter with Her God. A period of intense persecution, or "trampling" by the nations heaped upon her. Verse 13 of Revelation 12th chapter actually says, the dragon "persecuted the woman" and sent water toward her to "drown her" by this "river of water". These are future times, an ominous future for "Israel". A future of intense persecution upon Israel or the "woman" is called the "Gentile Times", where she is "chased away" from her inheritance and land for "sin" on her part. She must stay there, to "complete the days of her mourning" for sinning against God. After which, she will be offered an opportunity to "bond" with God again, in a "covenant" of peace. (Luke 21:24 KJV; Jeremiah 30:7, 17; Isaiah 60:20) At Revelation 7:14, this time of intense persecution is called the "Great Tribulation" in many translations. However more explicitly other Bible translations refer to this period as the "Great Persecution" [Jerusalem Bible], or the "Great Ordeal" [New English Bible], or the "Great Oppression" [ Phillips Modern English]. As can be seen in these translations, the intent is not to completely destroy "Israel", but only to offer needed "chastisement" for her "sins" against God. Thus, it becomes a period of persecution, affliction, oppression, a horrendous "ordeal" for Israel of modern times. (Jeremiah 46:28) So no matter how we look at the prophetic words of Ezekiel 20th chapter, we cannot escape the real reason for God taking this action against Israel. It is for his own "namesake" and not for the sakes of Israel itself. This point is constantly repeated within the 20th chapter of Ezekiel. (See Ezekiel 20:9, 14, 22, 44.). So because of the reproach brought upon God's Name by Israel, God takes this very necessary action. In fact, Ezekiel 39:27 says, Jehovah has obligated himself in such cases. Jehovah must "Sanctify Himself", in the event Israel fails to do so, and carry out her sworn responsibility. So if she fails in doing this, God steps in and "sanctifies Himself". (See footnote New World Translation Ezekiel 39:27 large print Ref. Bible.) This is just one example of how the prophetic scriptures give us a tremendous glimpse of the future, as it affects modern-day "Israel" of God. These words show us, as a parental figure, the God of "Israel" chooses to discipline his "sons", as Hebrews 12:5-11 shows, to bring about a much needed quality, namely "righteousness". Jesus showed, in the last days, "Israel" would be in much need of this quality by saying during that time, "Israel" would have to go through a "re-creation" [Greek: palingenesis, "regeneration"; "rebirth"] period. (Matthew 19:28 see footnote lg prt NWT Ref. Bib.) And no question the long hidden "child abuse" problem as well as the secret 10-year "United Nations-NGO/GB" affair all give "convincing evidence" of the compelling need of "righteousness", on the part of modern-day "Israel". Also the practice of shunning as "apostates" those who object to promulgating the unproven, false teaching/dogma of 1914 shows a blatant disregard for "truth" and a sordid "rejoicing in unrighteousness" upon the part of wicked "Israel" of Bible prophecy. (1 Corinthians 13:6) [***See link below on the error of "1914" teaching.] Jesus foretold Israel's disobedience by saying "And when that one arrives he will give the world [Israel] convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment...because they are not exercising faith in me." (John 16:8, 9) These words of Jesus have proven quite true for us today. This is because, Jehovah's Witnesses, with all of her unrighteousness, continues to "fit the bill" of the prophetic description given of her centuries ago, as modern day "Israel" of Bible prophecy. We have the "convincing evidence" of her guilt right before us, just as the "God of the inspired utterances of the prophets" said centuries ago. (Revelation 22:6) bjc2read@yahoo.com ***1914 Teaching Error link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26176&site=3

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
13:10:26
Comments

I just received an email from DPINGO??? Re: Watchtower Society - I deleted rather than opened it. I to my knowledge have not left my email with anyone called DPINGO. But have left emails everywhere and I know they get my address...anyone else get an email from DPINGO???

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
13:15:57
Comments

Yes, I received email from DPINGO and did not open it. F.B.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
13:48:38
Comments

FB: Thanks! I am glad.....I didn't open it. What I find very very interesting is that I have never ever left my e-mail on this site EVER! This is more than disturbing...what other sites have you visited regarding this matter???? Soap Box. I have e-mailed to webmaster, to editor from this site but that is all.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
14:16:00
Comments

" Ping" is a buzz word for breaking into a system or "something like that"....there are Firewall softwares on line that can be downloaded...just did mine. $49.95 We need some information on the Home Page for all of us who are not computer savvy as to how to protect ourselves and computers...Please. Call your local computer person and find out what they recommend!

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
14:17:49
Comments

We also need a bulletin up front for what to look out for before we come onto the site and leave a message etc....please.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
15:11:34
Comments

Europe ...here they come!!!!!! About 45min ago - on short notice -, German TV magazine KONTRASTE ( http://www.kontraste.de broadcasted a very well researched report on child abuse within the JW community. The report was only 10-15min long, but it was German prime time - the very first topic after the most watched daily news magazine. KONTRASTE (Contrasts) is very reputable TV magazine. Two victims were interviewed and a JW spokesman. Also Stephan E. Wolf, Webmaster of http://www.xzj-infolink.de was interviewed and Sect-Expert of the Protestant Churches in Germany, Andreas Fincke ( http://www.ekd.de/ezw

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
15:25:37
Comments

It is true that many people have taken on the WTS and failed. I can't think of an organization more skilled at the manipulation of governmental constitutions. Look at what the WTS has done in the art of "bible manipulation." (Kudos for deception) In the US our sense of freedom of expression by the 1st amendment is often blind to freedom from expression. It is unfortunate. But the belief is that evil deception in the end is always self-defeating. I believe that the WTS is already dead, but I think that it will take 20 years to bury it. Its legacy in history will be one of the most powerful Arius styled sect movements of all time. For many of the people telling their stories I want you to know I believe you. I have seen the worst that the witnesses have to offer in my own family. For years I have shown them love and in return they have given me hardness of the heart. They did this only because my wife left the sect when she turned 18. I know that to them this is love. It is not however Christ styled love. No witness can experience this because that is not the ideology of the WTS. Witnesses only know how to give conditional love. This means, "I will love you if you are baptized," or, "I will love you if you submit to the will of the WTS." Any individual will is crushed with masterful crafted skill. This was never The Way. It is the other side of what true religion is about. This type of sameness is "uniformity." Unity is when the "one mind" is E pluribus unum; We enjoy and embrace our differences with in the group. That is how we grow. This is about the victims of the Watchtower. It is their doctrine and the way that the dogma is implemented that binds the members. (They all are willing victims) There is specific doctrine that must be dispelled in order for the individual to be free and in control of how they respond to their life's events. Then the dogma (that fear they have of the elders) has no power over them. Remember this it does not matter what we know. It only matters what we can prove. That means that preparation is necessary. You must gather evidence. The physical abuse is easy to prove. It should be done at the time of the assault. If you wait then it is your word against theirs. Remember these same people who lied for you in the past will now lie about you. Make no mistake witnesses love no one not even themselves. They will turn on anyone inside or outside the organization with one order from whoever is in authority. It does not matter what the charges are (if they even know). Tape your DF hearings. This is already happening and you can read them all over the net. There are many ways to fight back against the witnesses in your family and your life. They love to harass and stalk individuals. This is sick and illegal in most states. They are your enemy if they suspect you of anything. (True or not) It does not matter if you have no interest in the issues that the Watchtower has with someone. If you are associated, married or related to them in any way you are a target. (That is my story.) If someone in your life or family goes against the Watchtower you will pay for it, and vice versa. (Remember you are doing the witnesses in your family a favor if you do.) Yes they will hurt in the short term but long term you might free them. Even if not it saves you a lot of pain. As my father in law (who is associated) says "We hurt you and your children because it is one way to get at our daughter." You can not sue or have them arrested for harassment unless you make it perfectly clear that you want no association with the individual. It can't be a blanket like "all JW's" it has to be with an individual. Because the Watchtower specifically uses family to inflict emotional pain on the disfellowshipped you have to look at leaving the Watchtower as a divorce. That is what it is, not the divorce from God, not even faith, but the end of a bad relationship. Looking at it that way has helped me to let go of the anger for vengeance that these cowardly people in my own family inflicted on me to try an hurt my wife. (The best revenge is to lead a happy, successful life.)…..(I could never forgive them, nor can I forget; I can only let it go.) These issues alone will not win this war, these crimes are but symptoms in the bigger illness. The battles to be won are inside you and in the protection of your family. As I said it is a divorce, and if the relationship with these people is bad for you then it is bad for your children. The legal system shies away from religious custody battles this is the big advantage of the Watchtower. (Which is strange because in their history the organization hates children.) Maybe it is because children tie people to families. The Watchtower exploits this. To try and keep individuals bound to the Watchtower. Or as an example as to what will happen to others who try to leave the sect. We will need stand strong with you, and you strong enough to bring legal action against your own families. Even have them arrested. It is painful beyond words but it is the Witnesses choice. You can not make them love or understand why you will not submit to the Watchtower's control. It is like an addict high on crack and you are trying to tell them how they are destroying their life and everyone around them. The "kingdom halls" are where they go to shoot up, to get high. Only by taping their behavior and showing it to the outside world will people begin to see just how evil this sect and it's behavior is. Not all drunkards are skid row bums. Not all idolaters have a visible golden cow they worship in plain site. Not all addictive agents come with government warning labels. Not all those organizations that claim to be religions have noble intentions, nor do they have its member's best interests in mind. When a person is an addict if they don't want help then you can't help them. However, you do not have to be their victim, nor be exploited or hurt by them. You are not responsible for their behavior, they are. What they do is because of their addiction. You don't have to hate them; they are not in control of what they do. They however are responsible for what they do and must be held accountable. <http://www.spy-cam-surveillance-equipment.com/>….. <http://www.spystuff.com/products.html>…. <http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?WRD=Jehovah%27s+witnesses&userid=4784HVUMWY&sourceid=00393694015335742330&bfdate=06%2D20%2D2002+16%3A10%3A09>…. <http://www.macgregorministries.org/jw_lawyers.html>….<http://home.powertech.no/festus/j/jwe/index.shtml

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
15:47:02
Comments

About 45min ago - on short notice -, German TV magazine KONTRASTE ( http://www.kontraste.de broadcasted a very well researched report on child abuse within the JW community. The report was only 10-15min long, but it was German prime time - the very first topic after the most watched daily news magazine. KONTRASTE (Contrasts) is very reputable TV magazine. Two victims were interviewed and a JW spokesman. Also Stephan E. Wolf, Webmaster of http://www.xzj-infolink.de was interviewed and Sect-Expert of the Protestant Churches in Germany, Andreas Fincke ( http://www.ekd.de/ezw Edited by - GermanJW on 20 June 2002 15:13:4

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
15:53:26
Comments

Hi all: I have noticed a couple of posts recently about email being sent on the account of others, and some getting viruses, etc. Here are some helpful points. I hope others can add to this: If an email is sent out in your name, it may not necessarily be some evil, mean JW person hacking you ... it is more likely any number of hackers who happened to land on your system. About 3 or 4 months ago I received an email from some ex-JW friends (or so I thought) and traced it back to a library where they did research ... as it turned out, the library was two states away from where they were at the time, because they were out traveling. The librarian did not send the email either, and it appears that someone hacked my friends system, sent an email that appeared to come from them, and sourced back to the library. Soooo ... I had my friends switch to my hotmail account to prevent future problems. RECOMMENDATIONS: Hotmail is a routing service and automatically screens for viruses: It cannot penetrate your system unless you download something sent to your Hotmail account. I recommend that your email account used for online chats and posting forums be a Hotmail account. When you subscribe to Hotmail, you can use fictitious information so that if a hacker breaks into Hotmail, they cannot learn who you are. While fictitious, you do need real information. For example: I use some name like Joe Smith in Florida, or Alaska, etc with a correct zip code for Florida, or Alaska or whatever State I use. If you attempt a false Zip code, Hotmail will reject the account. Internet Security / Firewall / Antivirus: Norton, by Symantec is the best in my opinion, although there are other great systems that are very good. I STRONGLY recommend having BOTH the Firewall and Anti-Virus. The Firewall also stops Hackers dead in their tracks so that the odds of planting a Virus or Trojan into your system in the first place are greatly reduced. Norton Firewall also allows tracing of the hacker so you can report them to their employer and/or ISP. Anti-Virus alone is good, but can lag behind new viruses, and your system could get corrupted before Norton or whatever Anti-Virus program you have can fix it. On average there are 50 NEW Viruses developed each week by people with nothing better to do than mess with their fellow human. Poison Pill: I do not know of any commercial grade software available that allows you to send a Poison Pill back to the hacker's system ... but I am working on my own version. Essentially, the type of Poison Pill I hope to have will secretly slip back to the Hacker, and totally destroy their entire PC system with no traces. I mean erase everything on their hard drive, and render it inoperable. If it works well, I might market it. Hackers will devise ways around such a thing ... but the presence of Poison Pills may reduce the level of Hacker Traffic on the Net, which is at an all time high right now. Don't over-react: When I first saw the email from my friends, and my system screened out the virus, I called them to let them know they sent a virus ... fortunately we are on close terms and we all laughed about what happened ... but it could have been easy to assume they were screwing with me, and if I had over-reacted, I could have lost their friendship by shooting off my mouth. Don't assume that the Watchtower is out to get us ... there could be weird renegade JWs hacking us ... maybe even a weird Bethelite or two ... but I doubt that the GB is directing anything of the sort ... they are bad religious leaders, but I can't imagine them being that desperate so as to hunt down ex-JWs on the net and cause that much trouble. If I am proven wrong, I guess I will have to eat what I am saying ... but generally, Hackers could be anyone, and not necessarily some specific person from a specific group. Sharing Information: Any additional comments will be greatly appreciated ... I think it is good that we discuss Internet issues at times, because this helps us share what we know and find ways to have a more secure experience. We have some really good experts on line, and I hope that they can give some additional insights and things we can do to protect our systems.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
16:08:29
Comments

***President Eisenhower was raised by Witnesses!!*** http://www.premier1.net/~raines/eisenhower.html Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
16:20:58
Comments

Two of us who visit this site received the same e-mail DPINGO - They, whoever they are, are coming into this site and getting information. FB left her email address and I never ever have. Something similar is going on at xjw.com also. I don't claim to know who they are, what their intentions are etc...but the common denominator is we have been on this site and xjw.com is having the same problem. Thank you for all the information regarding hackers etc...I need a professional person to come here and set me up*********I tried to install zonelab...did but then could not get into my email! Had to uninstall. Oh, poop!

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
16:33:34
Comments

A lot of time and attention is going into monitoring what you say how you say it - expressions - and where your emails/links/cookies are coming from and going to. I think the advice to get a firewall and any package that will cover your tracks would be useful - also be aware of giving out any personal specifics, however vague they might be. The witch hunt has begun...but I am glad that it has come to this. Of course I salute all of those who are standing up publicly. Your courage is what sustains me.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
17:26:31
Comments

How do you know that "a lot of time and energy is going into monitoring"??????? Really could just be some 14 year old, flexing his "ping" muscles.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
17:33:03
Comments

More information on xjw.com regarding e-mails being sent to Dateline with virus attached by falsified sender. Good reading for what to watch out for.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
18:26:10
Comments

TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE ABOUT STORY IN GERMANY!!!!!! I went to the link but nothing is in english. Is there anyway to get the info in english? Unfortunately I don't speak or read German. Maybe I need to find someone who does. (hehe) Thanks Jesika Thoman, Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
18:29:42
Comments

To be or not to be is the question I ask myself. This profound and overused sentence described is the question that many of us has asked of being a member of any organized religion. I have asked many people why be a member of a religion at all. The many simply say ,"because this is what god wants" or they say "they have faith in Christ and Heaven". As a member of a the Jehovah's witness organization I do wish and hope that an everlasting life is true.I can mention the many times I have heard all the good that has been done around world ,although I have seen none. I have questioned the many on ,"why do you do what you do", and I get the best of all answers that anyone can hear. **Next our literature is somewhat controversial even among our own members. We have found that there has been allot of very controversial topics that had no real foundation or facts. Not long ago our society published a article about fundamentalism and it tried to separate us from them. It was a good try but the facts are the facts, a cat is a cat no matter it's color. The Bible and Tract Society spoke of deep rooted religious convictions of other fundamentalist groups and how they are not comprising yet in the same breath they will hold to their own convictions of what they believe just as strongly. There is enough information for any simpleton to find if they where to look and search out the real truth. Intellectual's such as Carl Sagan , Laurie Godfrey, and most of all Stephen Jay Gould all stood up to say that they were misquoted and their lectures printed in our articles was not the whole truth. Is our organization to think that we are so intellectually unaware? **I researched the information and found it to be true that these people were misquoted. But dare me to Question the truth or my organization because I would be accused of apostasy ( heresy). I wondered why they discouraged the youth in our congregations not to seek higher learning, so it is very humorous how they twist and use the same scriptures so we don't learn higher thinking. **Another rift I see approaching is why that our organization never comes out and says they are wrong. I had a discussion with my brother ( fleshly brother) about what makes those few ( the anointed and elders) of our religion so correct ? The answer was, "they were under guidance of holy spirit". I asked who seen them blessed with this holy spirit? I was told it was a feeling and their actions is what shows , that's how one knows. Anyone who is blessed with so much spirit must be the wisest people on earth I asked. He said" they are not perfect and make mistakes". Then I asked" if they make mistakes then there is the possibility that some of our literature is incorrect"? "Oh no" he said, " holy spirit is guiding our brothers to perfection". This type of circular reasoning is prevalent in all fundamentalist religions and it sad that even the most sane of people fall victim to it. ** These fundamentalist organization are growing rapidly because of the ills we see from the original church. Even my organization who continually discourages us to not search out any information that is out side their sources may someday suffer the same fate as the old Church or fade away like the many others from the past. The appearance of being holy is a sheet covering the stench of the action of the heart, this haughtiness disgust me to the core of my very being. Organized religion has released a quagmire that very few will sift through. The basic rights to know have has been sacrificed to parrots. Parrots prompted by parrots is dangerous in that each are in " the allegory of the cave" not knowing the way out. I have noticed in all religions the self inflicted ignorance shown with pride as they think they are holy for not knowing anything of fact, only willing to live by their pseudo science and faith . Each religion promises some sort of utopia but do they promote the truth? . Why, because many see the facts but still don't want to be disfellowshipped ( ostracized ) from our organization and lose our friends and family, so we remain silent hoping things change. **My hopes is to see all organized religions be dismantled " like a drug they have plagued mankind" because of their on going disputes of Christ and his teachings, Jewish lies, and Islamic evilness this has sunk man to a pit of despair. I sit and wonder why no one has said no to it all. Those who's fervor is to the extreme are in a illusion, for true faith need be love and righteous act, NOT ignorance or blind faith. Lest be a parrot in a parrots world, for they lost all there sensibilities. Let organized religion be dismantled for everyone to see under their shining light of goodness the crookedness that they truly are. By severing the hand that meddles with the human family can we be truly FREE.I will remain active in my religion although I think that the Jehovah's Witness Organization is no better than some old resurrected Puritan attitude waiting to begin their book burning's and witch hunts in our near future.*****Brother J.S of the Lodi Congregation.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
18:35:17
Comments

TO SOMEONE IN TEXAS, THIS IS THE MOLE... I REMAIN IN THE HALL FOR ONE REASON. I DON'T TRUST ANY OTHER RELIGION EVEN MY OWN BUT I WOULD RATHER HAVE MY KIDS STAYING AWAY FROM PAGAN HOLIDAY'S LIKE HALLOWEEN AND OTHERS AND IT SEEM OUR ORGANIZATION AT LEAST HAS THE BALLS TO SAY ITS WRONG. I DON'T LIKE WHAT I SEE AND IT IS WRONG FOR US TO BE HUSHED SO THAT IS WHY I WRITE AND QUESTION EVERYTHING THEY TRY TO BRAINWASH ME WITH...I HOPE I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION. THERE IS SOME GOOD STUFF ON THIS SIGHT THAT IS TRUE AND SAD, I JUST WISH THOSE PEOPLE QUIT CUSSING WHEN WE ARE TRYING TO DISCUSS REAL ISSUES REGARDING THE LIES AND DECEIT OUR ORGANIZATION IS AND HAS DONE TO ALL OF ITS MEMBERS........THE MOLE

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
19:02:54
Comments

To Jesika----------I put the German story on there. I simply copied and pasted it. I don't know if there's a way to get it in English or not. Sorry kiddo! Aunt Lin

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
19:49:38
Comments

The Silence of the Lambs SPIEGEL ONLINE - 12. Juni 2002, 9:04 Translated from German into english here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=30113&site=3

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
20:08:37
Comments

Mole: You don't have to compromise to not celebrate holidays - many 'worldly' people who happen to be spiritual don't celebrate halloween, they see it for what it is and JW are not the only ones who don't celebrate certain holidays. As head of household, regardless of what you are, you can say "no" to your children with a Christian Conscience. What your children are getting at the KH is not spiritual food, but a twist of scriptures that will not help them to be spiritual, follow in the footsteps of Jesus or be able to reason, question and come to their own conclusions based of God's word - so it does not matter if they are protected from Halloween, they still need to be protected from the wolves and be out of the wolves den. A lie is a lie is a lie no matter who tells it. What they get from the kingdom hall will damage their perceptive powers - that is what lies do. ******Why do you think Satan is called the Father of the Lie and a manslayer??????? The lies will kill us if we believe them....the minute you doubt yourself you can almost be guaranteed that a lie is at the bottom of it. ************ I am a Girl from California.******Soap Box!

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
20:16:02
Comments

You can translate the German story to English here...http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en . . . . Translate a web page:....insert URL of german story it this box. It's a little rough but you should get the idea. Usually Watchtower translates to BE Awake, stuff like that. Anyway what is the URL?

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
20:54:38
Comments

Mole and Soap Box...I too do not observe days like halloween. I don't like what it represents secularly...Extortion. It does not even get to the point of spiritual matters. I don't like it. The Watchtower seems to suggest that if you leave the kingdom halls protection you will suddenly grow horns or a mystical bullseye is painted on you for the big day. Its a lie. It does not happen. Its not much different than if you were locked in a dungeon and convinced that there was no life outside the dark room you lived in. There is incredible spiritual and secular life out of the dungeon but you miss out on it. In the Asian wars 30+ years ago we tried to immunize the Asian children from polio. The elders (tribal) decided we were trying to put demons in the kids so they ordered the arm injected to be cut off to let the demons escape. That's graphic and I am not saying that it is literally equal to the WTS. My point is that often when people are trying to help you in ways that you don't understand "don't cut your arm off." I don't want to infect you with demons or make anyone do anything they don't want to. But, I would like to give you all the facts so YOU can make informed choices for you and your family. That is why so many of these sites that seem to be anti-jw. These are people who are like someone who knows the building is on fire but the people inside are scared to come outside. They think that they will die if they do.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
21:19:15
Comments

MOLE! You used "got the balls" shame on you. LOL The good people who swear are just very angry right now - one thing great about a web site you don't have to read everything. ******I couldn't resist teasing you.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
21:54:46
Comments

THANK YOU!!!! I just read the "rough" translation of the German article. I was afraid I was going to have to break out the German-English dictionary!(haha) Isn't it great that the recognition is becoming worldwide!! Keep talking everyone!!! That's what we have to do- keep talking until someone listens. Keep emailing the media and telling everyone!!!! Love- Jesika Thoman- Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
23:07:01
Comments

wow... such reliable news sources. "freeminds.com" this "ejw.com" that. and other anti jw sources. I think the handful of people that even post here need to find a more constructive hobby. Alan, Dallas TX

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jun 2002
Time:
23:14:52
Comments

I don't know enough about the JW to pass any blame on them as a "unit". I was raised Catholic, and NEVER had a problem there (nor knew of any), but there obviously IS a problem with some of the priests. I do believe that bringing to light people who have wronged others in such a way (regardless of race or religion) is an admirable thing. NO child should be made to feel "dirty" at the hands of an adult, nor should they be made to feel it is their fault. The perpetrators of these crimes should, however, be held accountable. That goes for the "rich guy" in the fancy suburb as much as it goes for the "redneck" in the backwoods. It's a scary world we bring our children up in. Mine have ALWAYS been told that NOBODY that you don't know has any business touching you at all, and NOBODY even if you know them has any business touching you "anywhere your bathing suit would cover", family or otherwise. They have been told if anything remotely like that should happen, it is NOT their fault, and to let us know so that we can protect them. As a parent, I guarantee...someone harms my child in such a way, they would do good to pray in any way they knew how to that the law caught up with them before I did. ~Disgusted in Ohio~

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
05:01:04
Comments

I am so very happy that your site exists. When my mom saw the dateline story she called me and apologized repeatedly for allowing my stepfather and the elders to abuse me and for being subjugated by them. I tried to explain to her that I felt she had been abused, as well. If you attempt to mount a class action lawsuit, sign us up!!! robin robmasullo@earthlink.net

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
08:44:16
Comments

CLASS ACTION GOOD IDEA...! Here is a quote from The Post Traumatic Gazette by Patience "It takes time to get better. Getting better is a slow process. The physiological arousal which many trauma survivors live in makes it difficult for survivors to take in the kind of information needed to heal. This is part of the brain chemistry of survivors. IT IS NOT RESISTANCE. People can talk about changing but all survivors see is their lips moving. The words and concepts make no sense. This is because they are taking in survival information: who's in the room, where are they sitting, where is the door, how are they reacting to me?........Safety first" *******hard to work, think, have relationship, take care of myself if I am constantly worried about my safety ! *************

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
08:55:52
Comments

You sillies the e-mail DPINGO is from the U.N. I got one too because I had e-mailed the DPI section of the U.N. asking about the involvement of the WTS with them as an NGO. They have been swamped with inquiries. What I got was a copy of the e-mail response that is being sent to everyone. Don't let paranoia take away your freedom to speak out. love you guys. Loris lmatheny@emtecae.com

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
09:06:32
Comments

LORIS - well I have to admit "ping" which is some word used by hackers got me going! You are right I did leave a message with Department of Public Information NGO.....what did the e-mail say?????? Would like a copy of it posted on this site. Thanks!

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
12:41:35
Comments

TO ALLEN from Dallas!!!! I think you could find a more constructive hobby yourself, instead of coming here and passing judgement on people you don't know and can not relate to. Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
14:01:43
Comments

Wow Alan from Dallas... such reliable news sources: www.watchtower.org and www.jw-media.org. and other brainwashing sources!!!!!! Especially the section where you can comment on their brainwashing!!!!!

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
14:14:03
Comments

Jesika...You are cool. I am working with you. Dateline, Newspapers, Fox and more.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
15:31:04
Comments

Hey everyone, sorry about the goof on the link to the German information. I had found it, read it in English, and had no idea the link I provided would bring you to the German translation. Oooops! I'm glad someone was able to provide the link for the English translation! I think it's wonderful that so many have been posting messages. Of course, along with personal stories, we have to deal with Looney-Toons posting garbage and slamming us for speaking out. But, I do not and will not let it get to me. I also am happy to see "in-good-standing" witnesses, including elders/ministerial servants, posting messages as well. I find myself laughing a little about it because just visiting this site or others along the same lines can get you booted out of the K.H. So, Hats Off to those of you in higher positions in the congregations who are opening their eyes and feeling our pain, and wanting to do something about the horrible things that have happened to so many of us. I don't know what's worse------Being disfellowshipped and considered DEAD by my own family, or being a part of a family that molests children (including myself)and sweeps it all under the rug. I was disfellowshipped at my request in '95 and couldn't be more free and happy. Jesika, my dear niece, hang in there. I know your dad, my brother (ugh) hasn't been there at all for you through any of this. Hang in there girl....there are a lot of us out here to support you, encourage and strengthen you. Linda Thoman Linthoman0705@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
16:58:54
Comments

Does anyone know what I need to do to Chat here? I only get an error message, saying to try again in a few minutes. Do I have to have an ICQ number?

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
17:06:41
Comments

GERMAN TELEVISION SPECIAL...the one everyone is talking about on silentlambs. . . . Protecting the Perpetrator Comes First - Child Abuse Among Jehovah's Witnesses by Caroline Walter and Marcus Weller. . . . . . .Translated here.....http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=30624&page=1&site=3#398801

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
17:10:51
Comments

From the Mole:****** Sorry about the balls thing just was an expression. To soapbox I would enjoy an intellectual conversation with you but I'm of afraid of giving my email address out right now. I too live in California. It seem since I began viewing this site last week you have been on here quite a bit, you must be a regular. Just to let all of you know my congregation has now been discussing things about apostates and talks from the elders about seeking them out. I used to be a ministerial servant for years but stepped down because it took away my time with my son. I'm only 35 but my son will only be a kid once, since I'm alone raising him I thought it would be better to back away from the responsibilities I had in the hall. I have seen and heard a lot of stuff that probably would shock all of you but it seems many have spoke up and I congratulate all of you for speaking up. It was about time. It has been three years now and the elders keep hounding me to do more but it is like they don't understand that my son is more important the showing numbers for field service. anyway my is boring. ................The mole

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
18:35:39
Comments

FROM SOAP BOX TO MOLE & ALL: lately I have been on here a lot. You are wise not to leave your email. The best resource is God, your faith in Him...period. You are doing what is right by being a father first - doubt this???? remember I said self-doubt usually means someone is lying to you??? Don't be afraid to visit the other sites, you can read letter after letter that will remove your self-doubts. ******* Silently pray to Jehovah and he will answer you loud and clear.***************I know "Crisis of Conscience" by Franz is "banned" but this book is so incredible and it is not hateful. Brother Franz is a true Christian. ***********Reading his book gave me my conscience back fully.********This is your journey, your relationship with God and you have the responsibility of a son that God put into your care. This is between you and God, and it is not anyone else's business. Busy body elders sound like a "nagging wife" to me. What does your son think of all this????? That would be important to ask him. **********I have to find what is meaningful in everything I do. My work, my relationships with people, my relationship with God, how I live and what I do with my time & energy has to be meaningful.*****I also have to define that for myself and trust that I have integrity, possibly more than the average person to do this in a responsible christian way. I have stopped listening to people, I listen to God only; it is hard to hear God when too many people are telling you what to do!!!! ********You can order "Crisis of Conscience" by email at Amazon.com - ask them to deliver it in a "brown paper wrapper"....!!!*****I guarantee you will not put the book down. One of these days soon I will create a new email address for me at hotmail and post it. *****I wonder where everyone is these days...it has been quiet here.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
19:07:03
Comments

The mole.........Hi soapbox, thank you for your comments. I have searched and read other sites and I own Rays books, in fact I have been in communication with him. He has been very ill and has not written me lately. When I stepped down I wrote to Ray and since then we have corresponded. I own various books on topics everyone has discussed plus literature from the Society in fact I own the Divine Plan of Ages series. When I seen NBC that night I knew I had to speak up and tell what I have seen in the Kingdom Halls. I am a fourth generation Witnesses and wont abandon my people but I will be a voice for the public to hear and to educate everyone what is going on since I am in very good standing with the Hall. I even own several Elders Handbooks and Pioneer books that is banded to the public and members of the Kingdom Hall. It bothers me on what I have seen and the ignorance that is rewarded. I agree with Theodore J. and Placerville because I too was forced to be silent at one time for an issue that sickened me, this is why I really stepped down but my son was a major factor to finally get things in true perspective. This is why I am the Mole

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
19:42:18
Comments

I think it was Soap Box who said it's been quiet around here lately... I think the fact that all those days of posts got lost sort of knocked the wind out of some.... only temporarily I'm sure. It was sad to lose so many posts, during the time that so much great stuff was happening, and so many people were posting. ---- It was just one of those things, progress was being made moving to a larger server/bandwidth or whatever, but it still is sad we lost so many posts. ------ I tried to find a Newsweek last night at the store, but they had like 8 copies of the June 17th issue, but NONE of the June 24th issue... Oh well. -- But there may be more coverage in the July Newsweek issue, from what I read previously.... Around Sunday or Monday, we should visit the Newsweek website again to check and see... ----- Hey, Mole, thanks for your story. It's comforting to hear from those still on the inside (sounds like a prison term... On the Inside... sorry. Don't mean for it to sound that way!) ---- Can you tell us more stories, Mole? I always wondered what it's like to be one of the "men" in the congs who get first-hand-info that the rest of us never heard.... ----- For the other "brother" in Lido.... No offense but I wasn't convinced you were a real brother. You used the term "circular reasoning," and that is a much-used-phrase used on the anti-JW or XJW sites. Also you kept referring to "our religion," and I don't remember talking like that when I was a JW. Just my 2-cents.... ----- I just wouldn't want to think that XJW's are "pretending" to still be JWs, for the purpose of making what they say seem to have more credibility to those who may still be JWs. That would be a dirty tactic, and I would hope the XJWs don't act like that. I mean, if you're x, just say so. ----- Hey, that was pretty funny about DPI-NGO, and everyone panicking about the emails from DPINGO! ;) Too funny. Glad "sillies" cleared that up for us! :) ----- SL Cheerleader (JW for 11 years, DF'd but not completely on the side of the XJW's either. I'd like to hear more about these JWs-working-for-reform groups, JWs who still are JWs but just broke away from the org... but that's a whole 'nother subject than this site.) --- Later kids.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
19:46:26
Comments

DOES THE FBI HAVE A FILE ON YOU?? -------- Be prepared for a real surprise at this site... an attorney I know gave me this site, I thought you might find it useful. You can check to see if the FBI has ever had a file on you. I was shocked to see that there was a file on me. Do not use your social security number, if you don't want them to know it was you who was checking. Just check your state and put in your name. If a match is found they will ask for a year of birth to narrow the search. You will get the case number, date of investigation and any photos on file. It's a free site, but is expected to be closed due to a federal court order. http://www.policeguide.com/cgi-bin/criminal-search

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
19:51:42
Comments

Someone mentioned ordering Ray Franz' book at Amazon. Just so happens I got this below email today, that if you order $49 worth of stuff at Amazon, you get free shipping. This is a real email from Amazon. And I have no vested interested in Amazon, just sharing FYI... Cheerleader. ----- From: Jeff Bezos <jeffb@amazon.com> Date: 20 Jun 2002 20:05:13 -0700 Subject: Important test at Amazon.com ------------- We're doing an important test at Amazon.com that we wanted you to know about. It may be the most important experiment we've done to date. --- Starting today, as a long-term test, you can get Free Super Saver Shipping on orders over $49. Previously, only orders over $99 qualified. --- This past January, we launched everyday, 365-days-a-year, Free Super Saver Shipping on orders over $99, and it's been successful. --- Customers have adopted it in large numbers (it takes 3-5 days longer than our standard shipping, but it's free), and it‚s proven economically sustainable for us as well. --- Reducing the ordering hurdle to $49 makes it much easier for customers to get free shipping--more people will qualify and qualify more often. It will also be very expensive for us. That's why we're first doing it as a long-term test. We expect to run this test for 3-6 months. We‚ll be looking to see if our current customers order more from us and whether we attract a greater number of new customers since it‚s so easy to qualify for free shipping. The hope is we‚ll generate enough new business to offset the cost. --- At the conclusion of the test, we'll let you know whether or not we'll be able to make the new $49 hurdle permanent. In the meantime, for the next 3-6 months or so, please enjoy Free Super Saver Shipping on orders over $49. (We've also recently reduced product prices on many books, bestselling CDs, bestselling DVDs, --- electronics, and tools.) Whether this particular test works or not, you can count on us to be relentless in finding ways to lower prices and provide more value. --- Thanks for your continuing support as a customer. -- Sincerely, Jeff Bezos, Founder & CEO, Amazon.com --- PS: To learn more about Free Super Saver Shipping, go to http://www.amazon.com/supersavershipping

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
20:16:12
Comments

Date: 19 Jun 2002 Time: 22:23:33, WROTE: "I understand some of you may have a problem with the view that there is an active concern directed to this site from the organization. But this site poses the greatest threat to the moral authority of the WT society to date. When I tell you that it is being investigated - I mean it is being investigated. Not er... I think it may be...." -------- Dear Knows-For-Sure-WT-Is-Investigating-This-Site: Right above your post SilentLambs posted the following: "We want you to know the site has no problems with virus or hacking issues, we have extensive security measures to protect those who post. We hope you will continue to utilize this as a resource to speak out on abuse issues. silentlambs." ------------ So it sounds to me like anyone who posts here has no reason to fear that anyone (WT or otherwise) can hurt those who post here, according to the official update from SilentLambs above. -- If you know more about this WT investigation, please do fill us in. Thanks. SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
20:21:07
Comments

All of you guys who may be out of the org and live in CA, you guys are fortunate, as there is a group of XJWs and some STILL-JWs who meet for a conference every year. It was recently in Pinecrest. Next year they may have it in Sacramento. It sounds like a nice bunch of people. If anyone wants more info, I can ask them if we can post some info here. (I don't live anywhere near CA... wish I did! I was out there a few years ago, and even went to the Cow Palace -- that is the strangest looking building I ever saw!) ;) But it was really nice. Love the weather. -- SL Cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
20:58:32
Comments

Religious beliefs, ritual, and association often give people a way of denying their shame, guilt, and need of a savior. Instead of encouraging people to declare their inability to save themselves, religion gives people a front and cover for their unresolved problems. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . What Were the Mistakes of the Pharisees? . . . THEY PRACTICED COVERUP RATHER THAN DISCLOSURE . . . .Interesting Website . . . . http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0206/point4.html

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
21:21:28
Comments

FBI Site - Ha Ha! LMAO!

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
21:53:46
Comments

To "the Mole", I find it a bit hypocritical of you to continue to live a "double life". I did it for years and finally decided to see what's it out like out in the "world". Let me tell you, it's amazing once you leave, you feel free. I don't mean free to go out and do horrible things, but free to think and get some education and better yourself and find out who you REALLY are, because you are never "yourself" at the hall - NEVER! My mother is still a pioneer and I see an immediate change in her when the "friends" stop by. It bothers me that she says "being a JW is what defines me, it's what I am". Are we defined by NOTHING else but a religion? What about our personality, intelligence, hobbies, thoughts (other than religious). I think this is what upsets me the most is that once you're in, that's all you are is a JW. You are then classified as publisher, in-active, pioneer, regular pioneer, regular auxiliary pioneer, presiding overseer, district overseer. There is SO much more to the human soul than that. This is why they never argue or doubt any policy, no matter what the cost, because that IS WHO THEY ARE. It's sad, but to the MOLE, the "world" is a lot more difficult than the organization, you actually have to THINK FOR YOURSELF!! G

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
23:00:15
Comments

The mole*** checking for soapbox and I seen a response ............ Double standards is not the theme I would use. I want reformation of my organization not to leave it. I speak out because secrecy causes more harm. Just as Ray Franz would not have left unless told to do so, so the same is with me. I want to correct the abuses I have seen and I would have stood along side the young lady on NBC instead of threatening those who wanted change and justice. It is things like that make any religion accountable for horror's that are hushed. Another thing is that I agree with the Lodi brother there is circular reasoning, even I who is well educated in the Organization cannot explain why, it just suddenly appears in a 1920's text, then goes on about Moses and other coming back from the resurrection.***I also have seen men raised to a level of being near angelic status which is wrong. But the Mormons do this also and so does the Catholics but to be a true faith and a honest religion we must forego this attitude and be true to Christ's teachings. Organizational dogma has created this quagmire where that, there is no proof only the imaginations to burden its members with. No scripture will say there is another group after Pentecost 33ce is supposed to have been of the Anointed, the scripture used is bent to making us agree with dogma or being accused of being a non-believer. It is things like that the educated in our organization are scratching there heads about because either we believe it or leave, nothing else................The MOLE

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jun 2002
Time:
23:17:43
Comments

Hi there, I'm a little mystified by the JWs who kind of want to be x and kind of want to continue in some other form.......what is it that you want to keep and what to get rid of? To get rid of....child abuse and pedophilia, yes of course. Anything else? And to keep.....do you still want to keep the notion that ONLY this group of people please and have a relationship with God? Do you still want to keep out of ALL politics and 'worldly activities'? Surely now you see some value in journalism...and law? And police?........I'm just curious. Would you keep 'shunning'? The belief in an earthly reward? The New World Translation? What is it you want to keep? Or, perhaps another way to say it.....why would you try to 'reform' this religion instead of abandoning it for another? Is there a really good reason? Is there a reason besides just familiarity?

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
00:08:51
Comments

answer to the last person who questioned the mole@@@@@@@@@@@@ it sure is obvious your not a witness. a little more study my be needed in the JW teaching's. this forum is for discussion and comments. if you need to learn more there are a lot of info in many websites. I think he made a point. most religion i studied are really out there. I used to be a Pentecostal and I can tell some real good stories that would blow your mind. tell us more mole..........

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
00:49:53
Comments

MOLE: Four generations of witnesses practically puts it in your DNA...the plot is getting thick. ******************I can only tell what I know******inside or outside THE ORGanization everyone is being lied to and only a few say no more, enough and start to unravel the lies. Once you begin to uncover the lies, there is no going back except at a great cost to your integrity,& self-respect.******What is your biggest fear??? Loosing you family??? Your son being cut off from them????? Being shunned?? *******I believe that if Bill Bowen couldn't do anything, if Ray Franz and the others couldn't do anything and if Dateline didn't make a dent who can???? It is hard extremely hard to go against family, the family lies, secrets and abuse for any of us. It has to stop with you. It stops with one person at a time. Do you want your son put in the position that you are in now??? &&&&&&&&&& To live a life of integrity is hard, tough, lonely, scary at times, no fun and you will not be popular.&&&&&&&&& Everyone needs to belong, be loved and be needed but not at the cost of our integrity. ********I know because I have done it.*********You may be wiser to become slowly "inactive" and not risk the whole family shunning you and making it harder on your son. I think you are in a tough spot. I was surprised that you have read Franz!! And more surprised that you spoke to him. It must be very lonely for you right now. You will make it, I have no doubt. You already know there is no turning back and you have to come out the hole Mole- one of these days. That is not"the way" that Jehovah wants you to "live" - you "feel" like a mole but I think you need a better name. #######JOKE: instead of goats and sheep maybe there are gophers and moles in your congregation???? Better you are a mole than a gopher....######Watch a good movie this weekend - great movie to watch is K-PAX. Or go fishing with your son and get away from the yuck. SOAP BOX

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
00:53:04
Comments

To LMAO: Teeheee... Glad you liked the FBI Site. Saw it on a forum, and EVERYBODY fell for it, myself included. I LMAO, too. Cracked me up! ;) ----- SL (silentlambs) cheerleader

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
01:01:20
Comments

To "hypocritical" and "mystified".... Leave The Mole alone. Quit picking on him. He's just fine doing what he's doing. I, for one, am glad he's still a JW in the org. We need guys like him. They can help expose from within, keep their eyes open, etc. All the ants on the anthill have different jobs, you know... some in, some out... CHRLDR

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
01:32:52
Comments

Brother JS of Lodi: How do you see that you are serving God???? I am surprised that you identified your congregation - nobody does that here! All this religion "talk" - does not address how you feel about pedophiles being slapped on the hand and children and their parents being shunned, nor do you bring to the floor any redeeming value to attending the KH other than it is "family & friends"- basically all going along to get along so you do not get disfellowshipped. mmmmmmmmmm......not much food for thought. What's up??? Personally, I have been developing my integrity, my love for Jehovah and what it really means to be a Christian in character, word and deed. Personally, I have decided my reputation is important and I do not associate with people who are harmful, harming, offending, offenders - what Carl Sagan or Islam has to do with how we worship God our Creator, the Almighty I missed. If you are a brother, your ideas are lofty but do not address the issue of Christian Love as taught by Jesus and how that relates to what the WTS does/does not do with a problem that is so devastating that it ruins peoples lives....I must say it is kind of fun to be able to speak up and out to a "brother" in a frank and honest way. We are warned to stay away from what is unclean...it is no joke. We get contaminated - rubs off on us, gets into our thinking and corrupts us. Brother, I don't mean to be mean, but you are corrupted. SOAP BOX

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
01:45:21
Comments

TO MOLE FROM SOAP BOX: it was not I who said you have double standards - someone signed G....when I posted I had not seen your last post yet...or I would have address this.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jun 2002
Time:
02:06:48
Comments

Mystified asked what we would like to see changed in the WTS org... Speaking for myself only (a JW for 11 years and DF'd for 12 now), I would like to see no coverup of pedophiles, of course, &/or, ideally, no pervs altogether; no accusations of slander if you notify all your JW friends about the perv; no DFing of whistle blowers; an open apology from the WTS for all past mistakes, acknowledgement of coverups, etc. and a promise to change; an open apology and reproof, etc. of any and all perverts and elders who participated in coverups or gave really crappy advice to hurting brothers and sisters; I would like to see the word "ORGANIZATION' permanently deleted from the WTS vocabulary, and instead use "Jehovah's congregation" or "worldwide brotherhood" etc.; I would like to see the acronym FDS changed because, to be quite honest folks, it reminds me of an old commercial for Feminine Deodorant Spray (hey, what can I say? That's what I think every time I see FDS). I would like for the conventions and assemblies and public talks to be on TV (hey, they used radio in the old days, why not TV?); I think when a DF person is ready, they already know in their own heart between them and Jehovah that they have repented LONG BEFORE they ever try to go back to the KH, so I think that should be enough "punishment" and no further "jumping through hoops" or sitting in the back of the hall, or the friends not being able to talk to them is enough already, since if a DF'd person finally makes it back, t